An Army of Normal Folks - HIGHLIGHTS: What a Former Heroin Addict Wants Every Parent to Know | Center for Social Innovation

Episode Date: September 8, 2026

Ariel Moore lost nearly everything - her home, her freedom, and even her child. But that's not where her story ends. In this episode, Ariel sits down with Bill to talk about how she rebuilt her life from the ground up, what it looks like to be restored rather than just recovered, and why she believes God didn't save her just for herself. If you’re at a low point in your life and looking for a little hope, this episode is for you. ARMY ACTIONS Subscribe to the podcast and rate & review us! Signup to join the Army, visit NormalFolks.org Follow us on social media @ArmyofNormalFolks Join or start an ANF local service club at https://normalfolks.org/service-clubs/ Take The 10 Level Challenge, "the hero's journey for service" at 10LevelChallenge.org  Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/#joinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The police kicked in your door, arrested you, and took your son into state custody. How did your life unravel to that? I had no family. I had no friend. I had no money. I took an entire, like, prescription of Xanax and tried to kill myself. A stranger saw a request on and out and showed up your door at the crib. She came in my house and she helped put this crib together. And so then I tell her everything that bad about me. Nothing I said could scare her. She was just so accepting. And now I was willing to build myself a life. of good people. When I got into a culture that rose the standard for me, then I could rise to that standard because I always had it in me. This is army of normal folks where our mission is to make

service easier for all of us and together change the country. Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.za for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything.

When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming.

They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offered. me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to

reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dear honies, this is goodbye. In February of 2024, celebrated illustrator and children's book author Patramathers and her husband Michael nailed letters to dozens of friends and

family members to let them know that they had died by suicide. By the time you get to Schleader, both Petra and I will be dead. Next stop, Wonderland. Patra and Michael were by all accounts healthy, happy, and in love. Why did they do it? And what did it do to the people they left behind? I would have given a million reasons to not leave this world had I known. I keep coming back to I truly hope that Petra was a thousand percent.

on board with the plan. Do you think of him as having killed her? Yes, I do. I hold Michael responsible from my mother's staff. I'm Leon Nafak. And I'm Alice Gregory. Together we set out to interview everyone who got one of Patriot and Michael's letters

as one married couple trying to understand another. Listen to death of an artist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On big lives, we take a single cultural icon. People like Jane. Georgia Michael, Richard Pryor. And we pull apart the story behind the image. And we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archive.

We're talking iconic moments in broadcast history. I'm not just a boxer. I'm educating. I can talk all week on millions of subjects. And forgotten interviews that change how we see these giants of our culture. Well, if changing the system from the ground up is revolutionary, then I'm revolutionary. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version. of our heroes. I mean, when I go on stage, I like to dress as sluggsy as possible because it makes me

dance better for some reason. I'm Emmanuel Jochi. I'm Kai Wright. And this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get podcasts. Ariel Moore from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Welcome to Memphis. Yay, thank you. It's so good to meet you.

Everybody, Ariel is an author, a speaker. a former senior director at the Center for Social Innovation at OSU-O-K-C. Holy crap. It's a lot to say. I know. Yeah, it is. I hated it. That's who she is.

I think she's going to teach you everything you need to know about the transformative power of relationships. But we're going to first start with the irony of how the transformative power of relationships started with the lack of relationships in our life and what that can lead to. In 2016, the police kicked in your door, arrested you and took your son into state custody. How did your life unravel to that?

Yeah. Yeah. And I actually have a picture of that day, by the way. So remind me to share it. How old were you on that day? It's 24. Okay. Yeah.

But really everything in my life was sort of like what you're saying leading up to that. When I was in the womb, right now I got one in the womb. But whenever I was in the womb, my biological father had just contracted HIV. He was a drug addict and had been incarcerated, things like that. Needles. Yep. Yeah. And even his own story was his parents couldn't handle him.

He went to boys' homes, was a sloth. was assaulted in those homes, textbook kind of story that happens to a lot of people. And then when he turned 18, he was doing drugs, crime, prostitution. So even the way that he contracted it, they don't really know exactly how it happened.

But this was 80s and 90s, so it was a big deal around that time too. So he contracted that. My mom finds out while she's pregnant with me and then they split ways. And at that time, my mom's going to law school And so some of my earliest memories are at, like, law school, like, in this college campus. And she's, you know, getting a degree and just trying to be a single mom and working really hard.

She got remarried. I had a stepdad. He worked overnights. And so we were just by ourselves a lot. And so I was watching just TV. Like, you know, I was like watching, raised on the media, like, family guy and Chappelle Show. And, like, my favorite movie was half baked. And so I was like, I should find weed. I should see what this is.

And going, like, I was all, like, it was all just me coming up with these plans to go and be in the world. And so turned 18, met a guy that was 14 years older than me. That was just beautiful, I thought. And he was so charming. And he was like, hey, come moving to my house. Hey, let's get you a new car in my name. Do you think because of the way you grew up, the first person that was, mature looking to you and offering things that felt like love, you just absolutely rolled into it.

Daddy issues. I mean, that's what that is. That's it. That's it. And there's like, I think I really wanted that sense of, like, safety, like, that I will take care of you. Yeah, because you never had it. I never had it. And to have someone be so, like, obsessed with me, I've never had so much attention.

You know, I never had, like, I never knew. Another drug. It's another drug. That could preach right there. I'm not preaching. Okay, no. We would. I'm just commenting on your story.

I'm commenting. But I had never felt devotion before. And that was the first time that I felt it, you know, from a person. And so. I really get that. Yeah. It does something in your heart. You know, I think it's why it's so essential for little kids to have that.

So it's not so, like, addictive later, you know. he has some big problems. And I did too because I was going to a pill mill, like a doctor that was just prescribing me the most of everything, to where the doctor that I had got arrested on multiple counts of murder a couple years later. Like all the people showed up to his little clinic. That was cash only, by the way. And it was just like a sign on the door shut down and all these like drugies in the parking lot.

Like, oh gosh, what are we going to do? So around that same time I got in divorce finally, left. with nothing and the doctor gets shut down. I become a heroin addict immediately within probably two. Do you have a child yet? No. No. So I get divorced from him, start doing hard drugs.

And then hard drugs is like... You become a heroin addict? Immediately. What do you mean immediately? Immediately. Like two months later. Something I was like, I'll never. How does heroin become a good idea?

Because the guy that... Okay, so I couldn't go to the doctor anymore, so I was getting pills from a guy. that was buying it from. Well, he didn't always have them. That's the thing about, like, the pills stuff is, like, hit or miss. People have them sometimes, some of the don't because it's all prescription. Everything had to come through a doctor. And so he also sold heroin.

And so he was always being like, you could have this. And I'm like, no. And then one day, it was like, okay. And that was it. Okay. So now you're a heroin addict. So now I'm heroin addict. And then I do all the drugs.

I do all of them. all of the all of the plethora of things that you can do start getting in like charges as an adult which means I'm going to jail as an adult which means I owe adult money What kind of charges?

Possession. All of it's drugs. Possession. But I don't know I don't know how much different it is now but like when you go to jail when I went to jail I owed money for every day I was there so I'd get out owing $3,000 and then they're like

okay we're going to let you go. Oh, we got a promise to pay us this money back. I'm like, you got it. You got it. I'm pinky promise. I'm doing it. You will see me again. I don't even have a car.

I never had a job before. So I'm like, I'll say anything. And so then you just, and the only people that you know are the people that you just came from is the same drug people. Like, who else is going to even come get me? And so it just, I don't know if they're thinking through all that. And now, a few messages from our generous. sponsors, but first, I want to read you a note that we got from Army member Sandy Peterson. Sandy wrote this.

I would like to give a shout out to those who, on their daily walks, take the task of making our neighborhoods look better. This is done simply by bringing a bag and picking up trash along their way. An additional benefit is, every time you bend over, you're doing a sit-up, which I guess is true. If you're doing something like this in your community or you know somebody who is, we really do want to hear about it. And being a member of the army of normal folks is really about doing what you can, where you can.

And the reason I love this note is this isn't something that's going to be on the show. This isn't something anybody's really going to celebrate that much. This isn't something somebody's going to write a newspaper article about. but it makes your community better. It makes your place to live prettier. And it's clear that very quietly, people appreciate it. It's that simple. How can I better my community?

Pick up trash. There's thousands of ways to be a member of the army of normal folks. And Sandy points out how something so simple can be so meaningful. So if you know of people like this or somebody who's doing things like this, we really do want to hear about it. Send us your or their story at normalfolks.org. We may read yours right here on the show. Please make sure you sign up to join the Army while you're there. We'll be right back.

Behind every night spent making the kids lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability.

Bell, connection is everything. On the new podcast Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinero, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here.

It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything.

Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

On Big Lives, we take a single cultural icon. People like Jane Fonda, George Michael, Richard Pryor. And we pull apart the story about it. behind the image. And we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archive. We're talking iconic moments in broadcast history. I'm not just a boxer. I'm educating.

I can talk all week on millions of subjects. And forgotten interviews that change how we see these giants of our culture. Well, if changing the system from the ground up is revolutionary, then I'm revolutionary. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes. I mean, when I go on stage, I like to dress as slutty as possible. because it makes me dance better for some reason. I'm Emmanuel Jochi. I'm Kai Wright.

And this is Big Lives. Listen to Big Lives on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get podcasts. Dear honies, this is goodbye. In February of 2024, celebrated illustrator and children's book author Patramathers and her husband Michael mailed letters to dozens of friends and family members to let them know that they had died. By suicide. By the time you get this letter, both Petra and I will be dead. stop wonderland.

Patra and Michael were by all accounts healthy, happy, and in love. Why did they do it? And what did it do to the people they left behind? I would have given a million reasons to not leave this world had I known. I keep coming

back to, I truly hope that Petra was a thousand percent on board with the plan. Do you think of him as having killed her? Yes, I do. I hold Michael responsible for my mother's staff. I'm Leon Nafeck. And I'm Alice Gregory.

Together we set out to interview everyone who got one of Patriot and Michael's letters, as one married couple trying to understand another. Listen to Death of an Artist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And so when you don't pay, then you have warrants immediately. So it was just a vicious cycle of I owe money from being in jail because I'm on drugs and then I have warrants. Eventually you have a child. Eventually I have a child with the guy that I got divorced from. Oh, lovely.

So like two years later, so we're like, okay, we're going to work it out. You know, because I always felt like he was the one. Like, maybe he was my soulmate. And so we see each other, and by then we're, like, pretty in the drug world. And we start dating for like a month because he bonds me out of jail, by the way. And get pregnant during that time. What is so wild is that during that same period of time, I took an entire, like, prescription of Xanax and tried to kill myself and ended up

and St. Anthony's hospital, and that was the same time that my son was conceived. And so I always say that, like, I literally chose death and God gave me life instead. And it would be that life that completely changed everything for me. It was like that moment. It was all at the same time. And then we end up, because I have warrants for my arrest. I'm pregnant, very pregnant, and I have warrants, and I'm on drugs. I didn't know I was pregnant for a really long time.

So I was, like, already on drugs the whole time. And then I find out. And then I'm like, well, I can't stop now. And you can't get help because you're going to go to jail. It was like, oh, my gosh, it was so. And I'm trying to go to, like, the OBGY, like the baby doctors. And I'm, like, testing positive for meth, like, a couple times. And they never said anything to me.

But I was also trying to stop. And so then I would test clean. I don't know how it was working behind the scenes. Maybe they just didn't see it. So when you got arrested that day, you were pregnant and had a kid? I had just, he was six months. to the day. I got it. And we were living in an abandoned house with no electricity and no running water. And so the door gets kicked in. They arrest you. And I guess your kid is now in social

services system. Yeah. And they were like, these cops, they were so sad. They were like looking at me and they were just so sad because I am just in despair. Because people like me, like I had no family, I had no friend, I had no money. And I was little. But when my son was born, it was the first time that I had felt like unconditional love. Like it explode. Like when you have a kid, you just, you transform into someone else. And it was like, oh, that feeling was like, oh my gosh, completely reorganized my chemistry. But I could not like figure out how to be sober still.

Like I couldn't. I loved him so much, but I was in such desperate, like, need. I was like in so much like anguish my soul and my heart. I have done, I mean, I'd done so many bad things and had a lot of them. Did you feel an enormous sense of guilt? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Or if you're like trying to go do drugs and your baby's crying or something, like there was, it was just like, oh, the tension of that. And then if you go and get help,

you're going to jail. And so it was like all, all the options were like none. And so I remember sitting on my front porch. we had like a couch out there because we were tweakers and that's what tweakers do yeah yeah you have like carpeted or like textile furniture on your porch um but i remember just at night rocking my son in my arms and just like looking up with the stars like i cannot and i can never get that visual out of my head and praying to a god i did not know and then i was positive did not like me anymore but i thought

he has got to still like babies, you know. And so I prayed that God would come save us. And he did. And that's when the police department came and kicked in the door and arrested me and everyone in there. And even as I'm getting him ready to leave to be taken away, I'm like putting every article of clothes on this baby, like five socks on each foot, four ones. Like just taking all the time that I can until they just shut that door in your face. And that's it. You got work to do. I had work to do. And thankfully... And your son's gone. I do have a question. Was getting your son back the motivation for the work or getting your own life? Oh, it was all him.

It was all that my son. I did not care. I didn't want to be sober. You know, I think it's important as we hear your story. And your story's horrible. So far. Yeah. Got it.

It actually, I mean, there's a couple of times when you say that, I'm looking at you thinking, no human being should live like that. And as we hear your story, it's important to hear your story, but I also think it's really important to know that you're not unique. Right. There are thousands of people in our country experiencing a very similar story. And when I hear you say, my life didn't matter. I was dead anyway.

I had no hope. I didn't care. I felt like I had nobody. Nobody loved me. I was convinced God didn't even love me. That should really explain a lot of what we see in the darkest corners of our culture. Your story just represents tens of thousands of other people in our country. Maybe speak to that because you were surrounded by them.

Those were your people at one time. Well, and I think unusually, what actually makes me sadder is that people can feel all the ways that you just said and not be on drugs. They could not have a kid. I mean, I had a lot of things that made me the worst of the worst so that I could get the best of the best. So interesting. So it's time to do the work. But honestly, you still don't even care enough about yourself to do the work. No.

It's about what is your son's name? His real name is stylus, but I call him goose. Goose. All right. I love nicknames. And he was my golden goose. So your deal is I got to get my crue together so I can get goose back. That's right.

That's right. So what's that work look like? Well, going on supervised visitations with the foster family who thought I was the devil incarnate, first of all. And that paperwork probably said some very true things about me in the house that he came out of. And so they weren't wrong. But, oh, gosh, I'd be like, I had no, I didn't have a car. I mean, they'd meet me at a public library that I walked to in the rain and had to roll up my jeans to get there. And so I get there and I'm like, oh, just mud had to, I mean, trying to like look my bad.

I mean, and back then it was like, I looked like a walking billboard for why not to do meth. Like it was like bad. It was really bad. And so I show up there. I got a question. Teeth, the whole thing. Oh, I had a missing front tooth. Yeah.

Just one, but it was enough because I got big teeth. It was like, oh, my gosh. It was a lot. And then my hair had all been ripped out. And it was like, it was just real bad. And I had my skin was all. I was by saying pit his skin. Yeah, yeah.

I think that I am so grateful. I don't think. I am so grateful that I had a short amount of time, years in that life because, you know, the longer that you do it, the harder it is to physically heal. from, I think, you know, some of that stuff's more permanent. So you're doing the work and going to the library just to get a... To visitation with Goose.

And they'd be like trying to like look at me and they were scared of me. And I mean, I understand. At the time, they just felt like the enemy of my story as they were keeping my kid from me. And they were like renaming him, Charlie. I'm like, excuse me. I'm still here. And so it was like, I was trying to like. I was trying to like, and I still felt like the bad guy, so it was just again, in an internal conflict.

And so I'm showing up trying to get visitations. Long story short, I go to jail, find out about a program called Remerge, which is a diversion program that helps people get their kids back. And it's for the highest risk, highest need mothers. So like felony convictions, doing the worst drugs, the worst ways, poverty, mental health, abuse, like just the worst. You mean you? It's me. I know. Finally, I was like, my background is coming in handy.

Got me to the top of this list. And so I got accepted, like, immediately, like, immediately. And because he was so young, too, that the intervention, the time for intervention was just kind of the perfect window. And so I get in that program, show up high as a kite, like, so, been up for a week. Well, hold it. You were arrested. How do you show up high for a kite? I was released.

Okay. And now it's... I promised to pay them back. Oh, of course. Again. Yeah. And they keep believing you for some reason. Suckers.

Suckers. Suckers. But I got released. And then so I self-surrender to the program. I showed up with a box that nail polish. That was all I had. And then my son's wansy, which I would put right here on my shoulder. What about the CD player?

I guess it was left in the call. It was like, yeah. Yeah, we don't, yeah. By then, we're like iPods anyway. Got it. Okay. So I show up there. And I just like surrendered to the program.

Honestly, I did everything they told me to do. I still wanted to do drugs. I was wondering how long the grip had you? Like, remarged? Just the grip. The daily grip of the urge. I'd say probably a year. Yeah, probably a year.

That's a long time to fight. It's a long time. That had been hard. It was hard. And painful. And painful. I got, I'm not a huge, advocate for mental health medications, but when I first got there, I was taking them, and I think it

helped me bridge the gap between... It's good as long as once the gap starts to be bridged, that you wean off. That's right. That's right. And so that's how I used it as like a temporary, like my brain's already so discombobulated from the drugs. I cannot control my mind, will, and emotions. How long did it take for you to be able to concentrate? Probably the same, maybe a year. A year? To just collect thoughts.

I used to think that, and I read through old journals, and I remember talking about my brain is not working. Like, I cannot remember stuff. I can't finish thoughts. And I just didn't know if it's going to be permanent. But it wasn't. We'll be right back. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches,

there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full or come home at all. And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit.

Visit bell.za for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive. what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable.

I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering.

me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Dear honies, this is goodbye. In February of 2024, celebrated illustrator and children's book author Patramathers and her husband Michael nailed letters to dozens of friends and family members to let them know that they had died by suicide. By the time you get to Schleader, both Petra and I will be dead. Next stop, Wonderland. Patra and Michael were by all accounts healthy, happy, and in love. Why did they do it? And what did it do to the people they left behind?

I would have given a million reasons to not leave this world had I known. I keep coming back to, I truly hope that Petra was a thousand percent. on board with the plan. Do you think of him as having killed her? Yes, I do. I hold Michael responsible for my mother's staff. I'm Leon Nafak. And I'm Alice Gregory.

Together we set out to interview everyone who got one of Patriot and Michael's letters, as one married couple, trying to understand another. Listen to death of an artist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On big lives, we take a single cultural icon.

People like Jane. Georgia Michael, Richard Pryor. And we pull apart the story behind the image. And we do this by digging through the BBC's vast archive. We're talking iconic moments in broadcast history. I'm not just a boxer. I'm educating. I can talk all week on millions of subjects. And forgotten interviews that change how we see these giants of our culture.

Well, if changing the system from the ground up is revolutionary, then I'm revolutionary. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version. of our heroes. I mean, when I go on stage, I like to dress the sluggies possible because it makes me dance better for some reason. I'm Emmanuel Jochi. I'm Kai Right. And this is Big Lives.

Listen to Big Lives on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get podcasts. Eight months into the program, I get my own apartment at Hope House. There's a transitional housing called Hope House, which is like a Christian's sort of program. Fantastic place. So I get an apartment through there. them. And then I get trial reunification with my son. And that's whenever it's like, okay, I got the subdu apartment and I need things. I had nothing. Which leads to you get your son back. You're in this transitional house. You do. You're starting to get control of you. Yes. And a stranger saw a request

on and out and showed up your door with the crib. Yes. Tell us about that. Well, and there, And then what happened? After that. They're super nice about like, hey, you know, do you want to be anonymous or is it okay? If you meet this person, like, they're very, like, respectful about people. They. The Care Portal. Right.

Care Portal is very respectful. And we've had the whole founder of Care Portal on the show. Adrian? Yeah. It's been here. And great story. But for everyone, I'll do, Alex, just for everybody just to catch up what Care Portal is. So you probably know you go for it.

Let's have it to be in your voice. It's like Uber for resources. That's the best way I've ever heard it explained. And so apparently you put on care portal, I need a crib. I needed a crib. I needed everything, really. And so the lady that met the request, her name was Mandy. And so she shows up at my door.

She shows up with all kinds of baby stuff, a crib. I think it was also like a high chair crib sheets that her family had like handmade for maybe one of her kids. They were OU. And so it was just like, I don't know, it was really cool stuff that she brought. and I had come out of the dark world. So I didn't really know regular people yet. I didn't know normal people. Did you even know what a nice person like Mandy would do for someone?

I was like, what does she want? What do you want me? Guarded. Why are you, you know, like what are you really trying to do? What is your angle? What's your angle? That's right. But she was a Christian and like a good one, not one of the bad ones.

but not one of the bad ones yeah which is well outside looking in like from a regular like I was not a part of church I didn't know anything the good Christians were shiny like they have like a glow about them and the bad Christians dull like cranky hard you mean like the judgmental blue hairs yeah that's what we're calling bad Christians yeah I would argue that That's not Christian at all. Right. Well, mine's all just like a kid's perspective of like, good, bad. You know, I don't know.

And so she showed up shiny. And I was like, oh, wonderful. She showed up shiny, being bright with a smile. Yeah, she just had that. And genuine. Yeah. You know some of the shiny ones could be bad too now, right? Hey, why don't you shut up?

Yeah. I will throw a pen. Please do not forget. Are you on the act of Bill now? Like, you ignore Alex? No, just don't have the birth 24 years of her life. It's still in there. This is a litmus tech.

It is still in there. Trust. I know. I'm telling you, all that's still in there. Don't test it. You're right. You'll find out.

You will need to call somebody. It goes, oh, yes. Yes, you will. So she shows up. She shows up shiny and she was good and real shiny. So you got stuff, but what happened after? Well, so she came in my house and she helped put this crib together because she came in pieces, first of all. And so then I tell her everything that bad about me immediately.

You start unloading about your past? Everything. Why? I don't know. Because I'm about to figure out what's going on with this lady. Okay. Mandy, comes to my house. She has to put this crib together.

I tell her everything bad I ever did. And she is so welcoming. And so like, okay. Yeah. Like she's just so nice. and accepting, like nothing I said could scare her. She was just so accepting. And so she invites me to church after that.

And it was like a life church or something that was closer to her house. And so I didn't end up staying at that church, but it was like the open door of like, oh, these are good people. Because I knew in my heart like good people and bad people. And now I had this kid and now I was sober and now I was willing to build myself a life of good people. And she reminded me about the God that I had met at Teen Challenge. I'm going to be careful with this question. Don't. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I want people to understand the question.

Okay, thank you. Did you feel like you deserved anyone to actually be nice to you? It was, um, based on my actions, no, but based on my intentions, yes. Like, I really meant it. Like, I was going to really do what I said. Like, and I really... So you knew that you meant what you were saying, and you wanted that longing and acceptance,

but you also cognitively knew. You had no reason. She had no one has any read. Like, look at this, look at my rap sheet. Look at the way I look. Look at all my stuff. So getting that rejection would not have hurt me. Like, it wouldn't have...

That was my question. Yeah. So rejection was so common. Yeah, that was okay. Because I get it. I got it. I'm scary. And I, you know, there's a part of me that was like I knew everything I did.

So in a way, I kind of did deserve it. So our Army of Normal folks who's watching and listening to us right now, what would you tell them from your perspective about service that they really need to hear? I think that, you know, I've had a lot of opportunities in programs, you know, whether that's the remurge or even Habitat for Humanity. I've gotten a Habitat House before. I mean, I've had all these programs. There's so many ways that people can get involved with nonprofits, foster care, care portal, things like that. But I would say that the most important, it's going to sound so cheesy, but the most important thing is love. You know, and if we don't learn to love.

Really not cheesy. I mean, you can do anything in love. you can go, you can be love. And be that to your own kids. You know, don't try to go out into the world and do all this nonprofit stuff and then be a jerk at home. You're canceling it out. God is not happy with that. So I would say that the most important thing is to be love.

I mean, from a standpoint of service, not starting a big 501C3, or any just showing up where you can in your world. How important was Mandy? Yeah. And to be accepted, because that's what love felt like. to me. I think we need to look at what does love feel like to this person and not just show up thinking we already know what the answer is. But for her in that moment, it was, she accepted me, she helped me. She was generous with her time and resources. Like that's what love felt like in that season. Actually, the only thing I want to add on, Bill, is can you just tell us the progression of your guys'

relationship over time that it didn't end at that point? Yeah, Mandy came and brought me the Care Portal request items, which was wonderful. And then she invited me to church and I didn't end up staying at that church, but it opened the door for me to start going. And so we have been friends ever since. And even when I was working with CFSI, that's how I ran into Chris at Care Portal again. It's because I was looking for partnerships. And that's how I ran into Mandy again because she was working for DHS. And so it was just wild to get all that help and to be a recipient of it and then

run into these people incidentally. So somebody comes to you and says, hey, you want to leave you? a nonprofit. During COVID. Yeah. So, first of all, nonprofit. And that's got to be what hit your head. And then the rest of your action.

What was that like? Well, what was even, what? Yeah, I know. Yes. That's like really the story in my life. What? Yeah. Throughout all of this, I immediately was telling my story.

Immediately was like advocating for the remarge and the Hope House and even Carat Portal, all these places I would be connected with, you know, whatever I could do to help, I would. And so, of course, people were like, oh, you should work here. And I'm like, I don't want to be poor anymore. And so no, because nonprofit is not where you're going to go and be, you know, especially a single mom. Like, I had a good career in HR at this point and wanted to help people, but was too afraid to do that financially to make the leap. And so the Gaylord Foundation in Oklahoma gave a million dollars to launch the Center for Social Innovation program at Oklahoma State University.

It had never been done before. It was the first in the nation initiative marrying the sort of programs like Remerge and their demographic to higher ed. They have, you know, higher ed has programs for previously incarcerated people. They have like scholarships and things. that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about I had them all day every day and held them extremely accountable. Like you was a lot of accountability.

There was like day in and day out, just relational stuff. It was all about building a culture because what happened for me is I started working at an oil and gas company and that culture, I rose to the culture. We're always going to rise to the culture. What I have seen with organizations

that help people like me like felons or drug addicts or even people that have domestic violence backgrounds or trauma, like there's a certain culture that's acceptable. And because we're trying to like really support them. Yeah, and we want to be real soft with them. We kind of let them be, the character is not there. And I just don't think that's acceptable, you know. And so when I got into a culture that rose the standard for me,

then I could rise to that standard because I always had it in me. I just never had the opportunity. And so what I believed was that if we can give people a higher standard and a better opportunity in a culture that keeps them accountable to that standard, integrity, humility, excellence, that people can rise. People are capable of more if just given the opportunity. So people would apply for the program. We'd get a couple hundred applicants a year. I would do 100 and 100 plus interviews in person in about one month. So back to back to back all day.

and select between 30 and 40. Then I'd select a cohort. Men and women, all different ages. The only common sort of thread being that they have overcome a social barrier. So we had some people who were seeking asylum from other countries. We had people who had aged out of foster care, women who had come from the domestic violence shelter, and then, of course, previously incarcerated people who were covering from addiction and things like that. And so we had the plethora, all different kinds, which I loved because there was so much that someone who was 18 could learn from someone who was 60 and a man can learn from a woman and like just the, just the diversity of the group.

We'd have like a guy with a missing arm. And then there was a girl that was like a princess in another country. Like it was wild. It was so wonderful. I loved it. And so all those little hooligans who had come together at the start of the school year and I'd have them money. Sunday through Thursday from 8 to 4 basically, and we would do a lot of stuff about identity. Who am I?

You know, and what do I want to do with my life? What needs to change? If they need a dental stuff, I really cared about that. All these nonprofits will help you. I felt that one. I felt it. And like cosmetic stuff. I don't mean pull a tooth. That was all anyone would do is pull a tooth.

I wanted like, oh, you need something cosmetic. So you can get the opportunity. If I had not had that, I would not have gotten hired. I can assure you. Just tell me this story with regard to this work of Brandy Hopkins. Oh, yeah. Brandy. I would say that she had just gotten out of prison.

She was rough, too. Oh, my gosh. And she'll tell you that. She's like me. Very direct. hilarious. I love her. But she was straight out of prison and had never had a job, had never, had nothing, had all the things of nothing.

And she went through the program. And, I mean, this was years ago. this was like four years ago. And now she's making a ton of money at a brand new job. She just like had posted it the other day on Facebook. Like, oh my gosh, I'm making more money than ever. Like it just shows that it wasn't a temporary fix. And they didn't need support forever.

It could been, you know, people are able to. When you empower people, then they can do it themselves. And that's what she was able to do. What is the most important thing to you about all this redemption for you? Yeah. I mean, it's miles above anything else, and it is knowing God for myself, like learning that, like, how to love him and actually fall in love with him and not just go to church, but like fall in love with God and to know him and take him with me in my life.

That has changed everything. The programs and all these things, like they gave me stuff, they gave me a place, they gave me time that I didn't have. but if I would not have met with God there, I would not look that different than that life that I had before. That is the agent. Like, that's the X factor right there, is the presence of God. Which is the authenticity of divinity. Yeah.

Thus the book. Yeah. Can't wait to read it. Thank you for coming to Memphis. Thank you. And thank you for telling your story and being so painfully honest about your story. that's actually that's what makes this so fun

is when we can talk real with people and the realness gives us the authenticity of the story can't wait to see what you do next and great luck with the book thank you thank you and thank you for joining us this week

if Ariel Moore has inspired you in general or better yet to take action by becoming the transformative relationship for someone else, getting involved with care portal, a second chance ministry, or something else entirely, let me know about it. I really do want to hear about it. You can write me anytime at bill at normalfolks.us, and I'll respond. If you enjoyed this episode, share it with friends and on social. Subscribe to the podcast, wherever you're watching or listening to it now. Rate and review it. Join the army at normalfolks.org. Join or start one of our local service clubs.

Take the 10-level challenge and buy our merch, any and all of these things that will help us grow. An Army of Normal Folks. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what you can. Welcome aboard Season 6 of The Girlfriends, Flight or Fight, which takes place 30,000 feet in the sky. A beautiful woman smiles and hands you a scotch, but you have no idea just how messed up her job actually is. It was the most sexist job I think you could have. Until one day, a group of stewardesses spark a revolution that reshapes America. Listen to The Girlfriends, Flight or Fight, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Michael Imperioli. I want to tell you about my new podcast, Underground Zero. We're looking at the opportunity of a lifetime for us and the other families. It's about the aftermath of the 9-11 attacks. What's in the tunnels? Gold bars, Silver Ingets. It could be worth half a billion. Starring Steve Sharipa, Rea Abruzzo, and me, Michael Imperioly.

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By the time you get this letter, both Petra and I will be dead. Next stop, Wonderland. Why did they do it? And what did it do to the people they left behind? Listen to Death of an Artist on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Big Lives, we take a single cultural icon. People like Jane Fonda, George Michael, Little Richard.

And we pull apart the story behind the image, discovering forgotten interviews that change exactly how we see these giants of our culture. We're here for the messy, the brilliant, the human version of our heroes. I'm Emmanuel Jochi. I'm Kai Wright. And this is Big Lives.

Listen to Big Lives on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Did you think you were the only one? Like no matter what you did, it was never good enough for your mother. I'm Jennifer Arnese, and this is the Black Mother Woon podcast, where we unpack and heal from the very first relationship that shaped us. We rush to accommodate other people when we have been hurt, and our hurt has not been healed.

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