Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Charlie Kirk Assassin "Furry" Lover's DNA on "Gun Towel," Claim

Episode Date: July 8, 2026

Lots of new information coming from Tyler Robinson's preliminary hearing. The defense is disputing DNA evidence saying investigative reports note Robinson's roommate/lover DNA was on the towel and screwdriver found at the murder scene.  Prosecutors unveiled new videos on which traced Robinson's movement across campus, show that he made contact with Charlie Kirk's group before the event.   Joining Nancy Grace today:  Philip Dubé -  Former Court-Appointed Counsel, Los Angeles County Public Defenders: Criminal & Constitutional Law, Forensics & Mental Health Advocacy Dr. Shari Schwartz  - Forensic Psychologist (specializing in Capital Mitigation and Victim Advocacy),Author: "Criminal Behavior" Author: "Where Law and Psychology Intersect: Issues in Legal Psychology," Website: panthermitigation.com, X: @TrialDoc  James Hamilton  - Former FBI Special Agent and Founder of the Hamilton Security Group  Joseph Scott Morgan  -  Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic,  Nate Eaton  -  News Director, East Idaho News, Emmy-nominated journalist.  Host: 'Courtroom Insider' on YouTube Dave Mack  -  Investigative Reporter, "Crime Stories" See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Straight out of the Charlie Kirk Assassin Hearings, the so-called assassin's furry lover's DNA on the gun towel, according to claims. Wait a minute. We learned that the long gun,

allegedly used in the shooting of Charlie Kirk was covered with a towel, likely drenched with DNA. Now we learn that DNA, allegedly, belongs to the defendant, Tyler Robinson's roommate, male roommate? The DNA is his roommates? As tonight, another defense attorney's dream comes true. A mystery mixture of DNA on the so-called gun towel, the towel that was used to drape the alleged murder weapon mystery DNA on it. That brings up the specter of another shooter. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. There was video being shown in the hearing of Charlie Kirk being shot. The defendant. Tyler Robinson was smirking and laughing, and a few feet away, Mr. Kirk's widow, Erica, was sobbing. You know, what's funny? Do you find this funny? Charlie Kirk's dead body shot through the neck. Was there a screwdriver that was collected from that rooftop?

Yes. Is there a wooded area that's northeast of campus? Yes. What was found in that wooded area? Well, it was found there was a long-up. that was wrapped in a dark colored towel. So the gun went to the ATF lab. Is that correct?

Yes. The towel went to the FBI lab. Yes. And the screwdriver went to the FBI lab. Yes. Did you receive reports back from testing that had been done on those items? Yes, I did. That video from inside the courtroom from our friends at East Idaho News, straight out to Nate Eaton,

joining us, news director, East Idaho News and star of courtroom insider. Nate Eaton, a defense attorney's sweetest dream comes true. Is it true that on the so-called gun towel, the towel that was draping the alleged murder weapon, a scientist at the lab states that there was three sources, distinct sources of DNA on the towel. She said Nancy her very first report when she first tested it that there was likely or could have been three sources of DNA from three separate people. Hold on, Nate Eaton. Let me understand what I'm hearing. The scientist writes three sources of DNA. Joe Scott Morgan joining us. We're now death investigator, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville. State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a hit podcast, Body Bags with

Joseph Scott Morgan, but death investigator with over 10,000 death scenes under his belt. Do you understand the bombshell Nate Aiton just reported? Yes, I do. That there was a thought that there would be a third contributor. Wait a minute, Joe Scott Morgan. Hold on. Philip Dubay is apparently chomping at the bit, and I know why. Philip Dubay is a veteran trial lawyer out of L.A. County Public Defender's Office. Philip Dubay has tried more cases than many lawyers ever dream about. Let me explain a trial lawyer is a different breed.

We're not house pets. We're not sitting behind the desk researching in a musty, courthouse looking through files of wills and deeds. We're in the arena, dirty, sweaty, bloody, but yet still fighting. DuBae, why are you so happy about right now? Because I get to show a couple of things. First of all, that this was a frame job, that he's been railroaded, and that there's a third-party culprit that's still on the lamb. It is no coincidence that somebody else's DNA is on that towel, because somebody else's did it who may have had a connection to Tyler Robinson. What a perfect way to throw Tyler under the

bus and make him face this firing squad and all the marksmen rather than the true culprit. Look at the video, please. Look, look. How many people do you see right there, Philip Deubei? I see one. I don't see a crowd. This isn't a cocktail party. There's no rave going on on top of the Losey building. There's one person there. one towel covering one gun this video. What am I supposed to believe? You are my lying eyes. That's from Shardman Onyx.

What about it, Dubay? You are my lying eyes? I only need one juror to say that your eyes are lying. And it could be one of those so-called conspiracy theorists or one who feels that the prosecution is not proving their case beyond a reasonable doubt. A jury should not have to guess, surmise, or, speculate. The evidence should be rock solid pointing to one person. Otherwise, a defendant should

be jointly charged and tried together before the same jury. But when you're trying to pin it on one person and the evidence is not conclusively presumptive of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, that's called a not guilty. Well, Philip DeBay, you may actually have a following. We see someone trying to cast blame on a cameraman that's just standing there that had absolutely nothing to do with the shooting of Charlie Kirk. The conspiracy theories are running rampant. And Philip DuBay, if you have your way, you're going to have jurors feeding into this craziness. That's what you want, isn't it? Of course it's what I want.

Because remember what I said earlier, I only need one to sway the jury or dang. the jury. I don't need all 12. It would be nice so he doesn't have to face a retrial. But the truth be told, there is in evidence now a third party culprit at large. This is not just speculative, Nancy. What you have is a third party's DNA on a towel that was purportedly wrapped around the murder weapon. Now, whether or not you want to believe that all three were involved, that may well be. but the state's theory is that Tyler Robinson was the sole perp in this homicide. But the evidence belies that, and a jury needs to have the full, clear picture of all the evidence, and not just a one-sided glimpse into it.

And when you have this third party out there that's basically getting away with it, juries don't like it. They don't want to the underdog to take the fall for the real killer's crime. You know who you sound like? You sound like F. Lee Bailey and Johnny Cochran. talking about the real killer. Nate Eaton joining us, news director East Idaho News, who has combed over every word heard in the courtroom. Then we have a big erase, erase, Jurassic erase, from the scientist. What happened? Well, in her preliminary report, she said that there were

likely three samples or could have been three different people. Within days, she changed it to two. After further testing, further analysis. It was two people's DNA, and those people, Tyler Robinson and Lance Twigs, his roommate, who, his romantic interest, the one that he was texting with allegedly, saying that he had done it, that he had killed Charlie Kirk, all of those postings that we saw about. Not only that, Nancy, his DNA, the roommate's DNA, was also found on the screwdriver that was on top of the roof. And the chances that anybody else's DNA was not these two, the scientists said it would be like one in a million, one in a billion. There definitely was their DNA on these two pieces of evidence. Let's go straight into the courtroom. The DNA results

from item 7 sub 1 and are 1.7 octillion times more likely if twigs and T. Robinson are contributors than if twigs in an unknown, unrelated person are contributors. Thank you. Let's skip down to item 8-1. And this is relating to swabs of the hands. handle area of the screwdriver? Yes. Will you read those same two paragraphs there? Male DNA was obtained from item 8 sub 1. Item 8 sub 1 was interpreted as originating from two individuals, one of whom is twigs. The DNA results from item 8 sub 1 are 30 quintillion times more likely if twigs and T. Robinson are contributors than if twigs and an unknown, unrelated person are contributors. We heard Nate Eaton from East Idaho news. We heard Nate Eaton from East Idaho news.

explain that, but Joe Scott Morgan, can you boil it down even further? 1.8 octillion times more likely that the now two DNA contributors are twigs, the romantic interest, the alleged furry, neither here or there, and Tyler Robinson. Oh, there he is, dressed in an animal outfit. I don't care if he's a furry. That means nothing to me. I have put every imaginable witness on the stand Joe Scott from nuns, priests, virgin, strippers, prostitutes, you name it. Doesn't matter.

They can all see, hear, and explain what they observe to a jury. I don't care if he's a furry. That said, the DNA. Explain what we know. Is Nate Eaton correct? The DNA on the gun towel. as it is being called, the towel that was wrapping up the alleged murder weapon has two DNAs on it. Twigs, the furry roommate, and Tyler Robinson, the defendant. Is that correct?

And what is 1.8 octillion have to do with anything? Well, it's talking about the percentage, the probability that it could be anyone else. And Nancy, just to frame this out, they also used the word, the term quintillion as well, which is even further out there. Nancy, This calculation is more people than have ever existed on the face of the planet. Just kind of wrap your brain around that. That it could be anybody else other than them. And here's one thing that kind of bolsters this argument for me, is that these two individuals are allegedly in an intimate relationship.

That means that they share a common space with one another. These are not just two random people that were out there. And for everybody that's thinking about, well, maybe his DNA was planted there, okay, well, okay, let's go with that. So you acquired both his DNA and this partner's DNA as well in a grand conspiracy to frame both of them. It's almost, it reaches into the absurd at this point in time. Back in the courtroom on the stand, Amanda Baker from Quantico. Well, why did you think that Twigs was,

someone whose DNA you would expect in those two samples. So from what I recall in speaking with the investigators, Mr. Twiggs was a roommate of Mr. Robinson, and it was thought that those items came from potentially Mr. Robinson's home. And I don't recall exactly if it was a situation where particular TAL was known to have been in that house. I don't remember that exactly. but in talking to the investigators, based on their investigation, it was important to assume potentially Mr. Twiggs was present. Did any investigator ever tell you that the towel did not come from Mr. Robinson's home, but was found in a bush out at the university?

I was aware of that, yes. So you knew that that towel was not found in a place where you would expect Mr. Twiggs's DNA to be present? That is correct. It was found outside of a home, but again, based on speaking with the investigators, they had information to suspect that that towel came from Mr. Robinson's home, and I should utilize Mr. Twiggs as an elimination. East Idaho News, inside the courtroom. Listen, and you're there for heart-wrenching knockouts. A world's biggest stage. and breathtaking triumph. 2026 FIFA World Cup.

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Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Back to Nate Eaton, joining us, news director from East Idaho News. The towel was not found, was not taken from the home. It was out on a bush where it had been discarded along the same exact route Tyler Robinson took from the Losey building where he was perched up on top at the time of the shooting. Is that correct? That's correct.

And a lot of people, Nancy, have said, why did he have a towel? Why did he need a towel? Well, he obviously had his grandfather's gun, allegedly, which was long, which was noticeable. a rifle, you're going to want to cover that up. And so you would assume that he wrapped it in the towel. Maybe he put it down his pants. There's video out there of him limping that maybe there's some thought that he could have had it in his pants. He was hobbling long. And then he discarded both the gun and the towel so that he wouldn't have either one of them on his person. Notice how he's walking with a limp. Okay, why? Because he's got the gun stuck down his leg. Coa, Loramor, told us

yesterday. You couldn't break that gun down. Look at the limp for Pete's sake. I mean, he's like Quasimodo. Look. Okay. Soak it in. Soak it in, just like the jury is going to do from our friends at TMZ. And here is the defendant, presumed innocent, jumping down after the shooting and scurrying away, running across campus. Okay, there he goes. running, running, running like a young gazelle. Okay, Philip DuBay, what happened to the limp? Just because you don't see him limping while running doesn't mean he doesn't have a hitch in his get-along. You got to see him when he's in his...

Wait, let me see him actually saying this. Just because, again, you want me to not believe my two lying eyes and believe you. Did you say just because I can't see him limping doesn't mean he doesn't have a what, a hitch in his what? It is get along, meaning that he's not limping when he walks. Distinguish how you move when you walk from when you run. And I think a jury can make that distinction, assuming that that's even time. You're kidding me. Did you say his get along?

It's an old expression. It comes from your parts from the south. I think it was coined by Tennessee Ernie Ford, actually. Okay. Please let's leave him out of this. Okay. That said, Nate Eaton, I want to. to all of Philip Dubey's

get along aside Nate Eaton, I want to go back to the DNA because this is critical. You know what a stink bomb this is going to be in the courtroom for the state. When it comes out, the DNA scientists said at one juncture there was three contributors to

the DNA on the gun towel. The defense is going to have a field day with that. I want to clarify something. You told me, Nate, that she first wrote three possible contributors in her preliminary notes, in her notes. That's just like when I'm preparing a case and I'm reading along and I write,

okay, defendant lived at this address. Then I find out later that's the wrong address and I corrected. Those are my notes, my work notes. Tell me where she wrote three DNA contributors. This was in her original report. Here's the interesting thing about this, Nancy. This is a preliminary hearing where the prosecution has to show the judge. There's enough evidence that Tyler Robinson likely did this.

The defense flew in this witness from Quantico put her on the stand for three hours to try to disprove that the DNA is valid. They want the DNA thrown out. They're trying to show the judge that DNA should not be brought. should not be brought into this case. Personally, I've never seen anything like this at a preliminary hearing where the defense attorney went through the history of the lab, went through the history of DNA and told this Quantico FBI expert that this DNA shouldn't be counted.

One, because you originally said that there were three contributors and two, because there may have been some flaws in the testing. So those notes then turned into her report. in her final report, Nate Eaton, how many DNA contributors does she say were on the towel? Two, Lance Twiggs, the roommate, and Tyler Robinson, the defendant. Lance Twigs has not been charged. We are expected to hear from him in this hearing on a recorded statement.

He has not been charged and has been given a limited immunity deal, so it will be fascinated to hear what he has to say. And they may well have asked him, did you touch the towel? Did you touch the screwdriver? How did your DNA get on this? And that can lead to some further clarification about the DNA. To Dr. Sherry Schwartz joining us, Forensic psychologists, specializing in capital mitigation.

She's the author of Criminal Behavior and where law and psychology intersect. You can find her at panther mitigation.com. Dr. Sherry, all it takes is one juror. to buy into the mystery DNA claim that will be made by the defense? Yes, that's correct. It just takes one to at least hang a jury. If they have a particularly strong personality, they may be able to convince the other jurors that they don't have proof

beyond a reasonable doubt that this particular defendant committed the crime. So the conspiracy theories can be very damaging. Straight out to James Hamilton joining us, former FBI special agent, founder of the Hamilton Security Group. He created the FBI's Close Protection School. It trains agents for high stakes protection detail. He served on the FBI Director's Protective Detail. FBI SWAT team, FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force Coordinator,

He was a senior VP at Gavin DeBekker and Associates, now with the Hamilton Security Group. James. Now, the conspiracy theories are attacking the law enforcement and security guards there at the time. They are claiming, because of them, because there was not enough security guards present, it's somehow their fault they didn't catch the real shooter. What does this mean to you? Is it just noise? Yeah, there's always gaps in security. It's American culture with regards to assassinations.

There's always been gaps, and assassins have always taken advantage of those gaps, as we see in this case. And there's no 100% absolute security environment, especially someone like Mr. Kirk, who was very approachable and wanted to be out in the public. And the assassin took advantage of it. It's no different than when the cop left Lincoln, no different than Kennedy being in a convertible that day when he's supposed to be in a hard car, no different than Reagan being outside in 81. The assassins take advantage of gaps, and that's what happened here. And the defense is trying to make it an issue of it. To Dave Mac joining us, Crime Stories investigative reporter, Dave, what is the claim that somehow all of this is because of lack of security? 3,000 people showed up for an event where the school had only prepared.

for about 600. And that is a claim that is being pushed forward, that it was a lack of security that allowed this to happen, that there should have been more there than was actually present. And again, this was a promoted event, Nancy. You could look at the history of what Charlie Kirk's events drew and know that it was going to be more than 600 people, but they didn't plan on it properly. And so that's why they have that to fall back on now to blame it on a lack of security that caused these lapses to take place. What do you mean by the lapses that took place? Well, okay, you have a guy that is able to get up on a rooftop and lay down prone and shoot

Charlie Kirk. And there was nobody watching the rooftop, Nancy. They didn't have the proper security to take care of the perimeter, to take care of Charlie Kirk and his security. This is a guy who has a lot of negative attention. There are people that really don't like for him to talk. And there was nobody watching out, not just in back of him, but in front of him. So that's the lapse I'm talking about. The security lapses, as Dave Mack has just called it, coming up in court. Do you know how many UVU officers you guys employ normally? Employ there was 15. And do you know how many were assigned to cover that event that day? That were assigned to cover it. There was six of us that were there was patrol one and then five others.

That was there with the chief. Did you all have an idea there were going to be thousands and thousands of people there? Was that a surprise to you? I had an idea and you only had five officers. Six, yes. Six, I'm sorry. I'm counting you. I was thinking. From inside the courtroom from East Idaho News. So there you see the agent, David Hull, being grilled, barbecued on the stand, as if somehow that's the reason Charlie Kirk was assassinated. Will a jury fall for it? Well, whatever the claims against the law enforcement that was there that day, they managed to get something. very right. And that is capturing an image

of the alleged shooter. As of the 11th, before Mr. Robinson turned himself in, you all had not been able to determine that. Is that right? Excuse me. Determine who he was, or determine distinguishing features? Determined distinguishing features of

the person on the roof. Yes, we had a person of interest, and those images were released to the press. You're talking about the ones in the stairwell from the... Correct. from the parking garage. Correct. But the video on the roof was not distinguishable. Fair?

That video is a standalone? Yes. It was not, no. Okay. Did you at some point in your investigation collect from two young men who were present at the event a video that they had taken

of someone on the roof about 10 seconds before the shoot? Yes, a video, yes, not photographs. A video was collected from an individual who had a video. Do you know how they did? described the person on the roof? I don't know if I read it or if I heard it, but my understanding was they believed it was

Overwatch or some kind of a police overwatch for the event. Okay. If that's my recollection. And do you remember anything specific about the person's build that they discussed when they described the person on the roof? I do not know. Okay. To Dave Mack, Crime Stories investigative reporter, East Idaho News in the courtroom, Dave Mack,

they are stating very clearly that the security guards, no matter how much they're being attacked right now, managed to very quickly obtain the face of Tyler Robinson. How did they do it? It was a combination, Nancy, of the available video that was there being the surveillance video throughout the area that allowed security, you know, to actually figure out who this is. watching the video right there going down the stairs, but you know, there was enough video provided by UVU that the investigators were able to pull together fairly quickly the one person that they saw up on the roof or looked at on the roof and they were able to carry it down

to Tyler Robinson. And again, you know, you're able to track Robinson's movements from the four times he was on campus that day to going up and down the stairs. to going and jumping off the roof. So there's a lot of video of this guy. And being able to figure out who he is, it's not a big leap, Nancy. Speaking of that subject,

Tyler Robinson all over the campus, back and forth and back and forth, long before Charlie Kirk started speaking, emerges in testimony. At that time, he makes contact with some representatives from TPUSA. by quad area sorry the amphitheater is

what I've previously referred it to all right so he goes up on campus visits the amphitheater area the courtyard or quad correct and then what do we see here now he returns on foot back to the same vehicle and what time is he returning back to the vehicle it's about

925 a.m. To Joe Scott Morgan joining us Forensics expert there's no denying that's him You can't get away from that. He's all over campus before the Charlie Kirk shooting. He's up and down the stairwells.

He's scoping it out, Joe Scott Morgan. How can you argue unless the defense wants to argue it's an AI fabrication? There's no way to argue against this. I don't believe. And considering, let's reflect just a second. Let's remember the FBI is already involved in this case, all right? It would not surprise me in the least to find out that they have done some enhancements from the videography where they will have mapped out his face and it will give you this imprint that matches back to him. It would not surprise me if you hear these people testify because that's going to be one of the big questions.

You know, how do you verify the provenance of these images that you're seeing? This is something that's separate from DNA. So when you think about biometric concerns, which is what we refer to as the mapping of the face, mapping of the eyes, all those sorts of things, even with fingerprints nowadays, that's going to play into this, I believe, from an evidentiary standpoint. Listen, and you're there for heart wretched. knockout. The world's biggest stage. And breathtaking triumph. In 2026 FIFA World Cup. The knockout stage. Every match, every moment. Listen on TSN Radio. Join the globe on the road to the July 19th final.

2026 FIFA World Cup. Stream it all live on TSN Radio. Available on IHeard Radio. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. to James Hamilton, former FBI Special Agent, founder of the Hamilton Security Group. You see the video, just like we do, just like the courtroom has done in the last hours, and like a jury will see it. There's no denying that's Tyler Robinson, but he's also going back to his vehicle. Vehicles have cracked so many cases.

James Hamilton. His vehicle, they can enhance the tag, the license. They can probably get him in the vehicle, his face is driving the vehicle. How critical will it be that it's his car? Not just his face, but it's his car too. Yeah, it's just more evidence. It's more evidence for the jury to see, putting him there at the scene prior to the killing. And, you know, it's casing. It's absolutely, in line with casing and environment, looking before you operate. It's what we call pre-operational surveillance. And, yeah, the car's key, him being there's cue. I agree with the other guests or will be some type of facial enhancement by the FBI.

But the jury's got a lot to see here, which puts the guy at the crime, which is great evidence. Let me understand something else, Dave Mack, crime stories, investigative reporter. Is it true that Tyler Robinson, went before the shooting and spoke with TP Turning Point USA personnel? Yep, he sure did. Nancy, as we mentioned earlier, he was just talking about the event. He was just trying to blend into,

I'm guessing that he was up close so he could see what the layout was going to be. He knew where he was going to be, and he needed to know everything that was going on up there, where exactly Charlie Kirk would be sitting, where exactly everyone would be positioned. And so why would he be bothering with that? He would be hunkered in his position waiting.

Instead, he's rambling all around, going to Chick-fil-A and then coming and talking to TPSA before he goes and takes his position from the crow's nest. To Philip DeBay, veteran defense attorney, joining us out of the L.A. jurisdiction, that's your man. He is on camera. How are you going to argue against he was there

casing everything out, walking with a limp, where the gun stuck down is. pants. I mean, going up to TPUSA and asking specific questions about when Charlie Kirk was going to take the stage, where was he going to be, just anything to get a chance to see what was going on. Well, first of all, they're going to have to verify a foundation that it was in fact Tim as opposed to some young man making these inquiries. But even assuming they can make the link, I can see and anticipate the defense showing that this is simply pro-social behavior on his part. He's only there to assist, promote, and help with the well-being of others in his Q&A.

Now, does it mean it's going to fly? Maybe not. But remember what I said earlier, it only takes one juror to have sympathy for this young man to really see that maybe he was there to help, understand, and maybe guide others away. Put him up, please. We perceive his harm's way. was there to help. There to help.

Help what? And organize the event. To make sure that the coast was clear, that things were safe. The evidence is replete. You're arguing that Tyler Robinson, it could be argued. Look at the chaos this guy caused. Joe Scott, you've heard a lot of witnesses on the stand, a lot of Zany defense theories. But Joe Scott, would they dare to argue Tyler

Robinson was there to help organize the event? That doesn't even make sense. I'll do respect, Phil. No, it would not surprise me. I've seen defense attorneys do multiple things over the years that literally, you know,

I had to put them on shock faces, as they say. But it's, you know, they're trying to get their defendant off. But yeah, it is insulting when you begin to think of it from that perspective. That was not his mission set in this particular case, Nancy.

That video of the chaotic scene after the shooting is from Life is Driving on X and Warm on it, OR3. Let's go back into the courtroom regarding Robinson returning and returning and returning to campus. This is Mr. Robinson returning to the campus on foot from the neighborhood to the northeast. You can see he's wearing the same clothing as in the previous video. And he's carrying a blue backpack. Describe the clothing? It's a maroon-colored t-shirt with gray or olive-colored shorts and converse shoes.

And what time did he return to campus? Just after 10 a.m. And does he leave the parking structure eventually? He does, yes. Okay. And during this visit, do you know where he goes after he leaves the parking structure? Yes, we were able to track his movements on campus. He went to Chick-fil-A in the Sorensen building and purchased some food, sat and ate the food.

From there, he moves across campus, out across campus drive into a wooded area on what would be kind of the northeast side of campus drive. Then returns back onto campus. We noticed at this point that he is no longer carrying the backpack that he was originally wearing. He moves through the Gunther Building and the Computer Science Building, then goes across to the railing that gives access to the roof of the Lossi building. From there? From there he comes back down the stairs and walks off campus from that point. You know what this is reminding me of to Philip Dubet, defense attorney,

when Scott Peterson was approached, his wife. had been missing, his pregnant wife had been missing, and he was approached and told that the bodies that had just washed up at San Francisco Bay, that the DNA test results were back. And those two bodies, a woman and an infant, were his wife, Lacey and unborn son, Connor. And within about eight minutes. Guess what Scott Peterson said? I want to see Dubay, please. That's not DuBay.

There is DuBay. Scott Peterson within eight to ten minutes says, you know, if you're driving through, I'll take a double double with cheese, fries, and a large shake. They just told him. His wife was absolutely dead. Her dead body had washed up at the San Francisco Bay. And his unborn child.

It did not affect his appetite. And here, in the midst of all this, Tyler Robinson is caught on video chowling down at Chick-fil-A. What is wrong with him? Well, first of all, you're making the assumption that it was him all along. It is not uncommon to see a student, first of all, carrying a book bag, wearing a baseball cap, casually dressed, going to get a bite to eat. and to suggest that this is just a cold-blooded killer, I don't think there's enough evidence there. And as for Scott Peterson,

if that were in the state of Utah, he would get a special jury instruction that any oral statements that he made that were not recorded should be listened to and viewed with caution because it's so easy for anyone to... Oh, boo-hoo, it's not the state of Utah. Quit dreaming. That chick-fil-a photo from Candice Owens.

You know, you're just, you're great. grabbing his straws trying to claim anything other than what I am telling you. You also claim, how do I know is Tyler Robinson? Other than us seeing his face, there's more to prove it is Tyler Robinson. You believe this is Mr. Robinson returning to campus? I do, yes. And what do you believe is Mr. Robinson? The shoes are the same and the images that we have.

From my viewing and seeing Mr. Robinson on the video, it's the same person. He's noticeably wearing different clothing. He is wearing different clothing, and he also is walking with a gate or a limp in this video. So when he leaves the parking structure, where does he go? He comes up around Campus Drive, as you can see on the video here. There is a cut through there north of the Losey building. and that's Mr. Robinson coming up the sidewalk. He has the noticeable gate or limp in his walk.

And then he moves south across the front of the Lossie building. So amidst all of his scouting and scoping and questioning the Turning Point USA staff, Dr. Sherry Schwartz, he built up an appetite. Yes, it seems that he wanted to make sure that he ate before carrying out whatever deeds he carried out that day. Mr. DuBay, the defense attorney, said earlier that he was engaging in pro-social behavior, and I would say the opposite. From a forensic psychological perspective, I would say that this is very clearly textbook

antisocial behavior. In addition to it being his car with his car tag and his face and his clothing, the video ultimately catches him here. And again, in the top left corner, the individual is now seen running across the rooftop of the Lossi building to what would be the southwest corner of the building, crouching down and then crawling to the corner of the building. And this is at what time? Around 1223.

I think the timestamp on the video is 1222. On the 10th. On September 10th, yes. We're clear. This is the roof of the low C building. Correct. Can you still see that individual? Yes, you can, laying prone.

According to prosecutors, yes, lying prone, ready to pull the trigger. If you know or think you know anything about the shooting of Charlie Kirk, dial toll-free 800-225-5-3-24. We remember an American hero trooper Michael Pahara, Pennsylvania State Police, killed in the line of duty, leaving behind grieving parents Michael and Patricia. American hero trooper Michael Pahara. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Nancy Gray is signing off for tonight, but I'll see you tomorrow night. And until then, good night. This is an I-heart podcast, guaranteed human.