Democracy Now! Audio - Democracy Now! 2025-11-21 Friday

Episode Date: November 21, 2025

Democracy Now! Friday, November 21, 2025

From Belang, Brazil, the gateway to the Amazon, we're at COP 30, the UN Climate Summit. This is Democracy Now. Secretary General, what message do you want this conference to send to Donald Trump. We are waiting for you. Do you see a possibility of him engaging in this process in a positive way? Hope is the last thing that dies. As UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres urges delegates to reach a deal at the UN Climate Summit,

the current draft text does not include a roadmap to transition away from fossil fuels. We'll speak with one of the dissenting countries ministers, Vanuatu's Ralph Begumvanu, and with climate justice activist Harjit Singh, advisor to the fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty. He's based in India, one of the countries that rejected moving away from fossil fuels, along with China, Saudi Arabia, and Russia. And thousands of Amazonian land defenders, both indigenous people and their allies, have traveled to Belém, Brazil, saying the rainforest is at a tipping point, but still can be saved. We'll speak with the leader of the indigenous resistance, Alessandra Khorup Munduruku.

Part of the protest to shut down the cock 30. She'll share her message with the world. What are you doing to the environment? What is your country doing to the environment? With our povo, with our rio, you need to know, because we here, we do not eat soy, we do not eat gold, we do not eat iron ore. We eat the fish and we eat the fruits from the forest, and we need our forest standing. All that and more coming up. Welcome to this.

Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. We're broadcasting from Bailem, Brazil, at the UN Climate Summit. President Trump has accused six Democratic veterans in Congress of seditious behavior and said their actions are, quote, punishable by death, unquote. In a series of social media post Thursday, Trump targeted the lawmakers after they release this video, urging U.S. military personnel to defy illegal orders. You can refuse illegal orders. You can refuse illegal orders. You must refuse illegal orders.

No one has to carry out orders that violate the law or our Constitution. In one post, Trump wrote, quote, this is really bad and dangerous to our country. Their words cannot be allowed to stand seditious behavior from traitors locked them up, unquote. He also reposted a message that said, hang them George Washington would, unquote. Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut responded to Trump. The president of the United States just called for members of Congress to be executed. If you are a person of influence in this country, maybe it's time to pick a

side. If you are a Republican in Congress, if you are a Republican governor, maybe it's time to draw a line in the sand and say that under no circumstances should the President of the United States be calling on its political opposition to be hanged. In related news, NBC News has revealed a top military lawyer at U.S. Southern Command raised concerns in August over the legality of U.S. blowing up boats in the Caribbean. A federal judge has declared the deployment of National Guard soldiers to Washington, D.C., illegal, ruling Trump lacks the authority to send troops into the district, quote, for the deterrence of crime, unquote. However, District Judge Giacob postponed enforcing her decision until December 11th to give the Trump

administration time to appeal. In Chicago, federal prosecutors have abruptly dropped charges against a woman shot multiple times by a border patrol officer. Has she joined a convoy of vehicles trailing federal agents carrying out immigration raids? Prosecutors dismissed the case without explanation Thursday after defense lawyers presented evidence that the border patrol agent had swerved into Martinez's vehicle and later bragged in text messages about shooting her. Meanwhile, officials in Charlotte, North Carolina say the U.S. Border Patrol has ended operations in North Carolina and will be heading to New Orleans to carry out mass immigration raids in Louisiana and Mississippi as soon as next week. White House borders are Tom Homan is told Fox News more federal immigration agents

will soon be heading to New York City. federal governments reportedly considering using a Coast Guard facility in Staten Island to jail detained people. In related news, the guardians revealed the FBI spied on New York immigration activists by gaining access to a signal group chat used to monitor activity at three New York federal immigration courts. Meanwhile, New York City Mayor Alexer on Mamdani is heading to the White House today to meet with President Trump who threatened to cut off federal funding. to New York if Mamdani was elected. Mamdani spoke on Thursday.

My team reached out to the White House to set up this meeting because I will work with anyone to make life more affordable for the more than 8.5 million people who call the city home. I have many disagreements with the president. And I believe that we should be relentless and pursue all avenues and all meetings that could make our city affordable for every single New Yorker. Israel's army is carrying out a fresh wave of attacks across Gaza, despite the ceasefire deal that took effect over a month ago. Israeli airstrikes, tank, and artillery fire were reported in the barrage and mazzi camps, and in the southern cities of Ratha and Khan Yunus, where Israeli forces shot and killed a displaced Palestinian.

Meanwhile, Israel's military has repositioned its forces beyond the so-called yellow line, in another violation of the ceasefire agreement. UNICEF reports at least 67 children have been killed by Israeli army fire in Gaza since the ceasefire came into effect October 10th. That's an average of two children killed per day since the beginning of the ceasefire. Israeli settlers have carried out another wave of attacks on Palestinian communities and the occupied West Bank setting fire to properties in several villages. The attacks damaged tourist villas under construction south of Nablus and a plant nursery in the town of Dera Sharaf.

Elsewhere, a group of Israeli settlers attacked Palestinian homes in a village near Hebron, assaulting residents with batons and stones. Separately, Israeli forces shot and killed two Palestinian teenagers during a raid on the Kafferakab neighborhood of occupied East Jerusalem. Meanwhile, a new report from Human Rights Watch finds the Israeli government's forced displacement of 32,000 Palestinians in three West Bank refugee camps in January and February amounts to war crimes and crimes against humanity. In London, police arrested at least 47 supporters of the ban direct action group Palestine action as they held a peaceful protest outside the Ministry of Justice on Thursday. They're the latest of more than 2,000 arrests since Britain's House of Commons voted in July to proscribe Palestine action under the UK's anti-terrorism laws, adding it to a list that includes ISIS and Al-Qaeda. Police dragged away protesters for simply carrying signs proclaiming, I support Palestine action. It's got genocide in Palestine. We call on the Kirstormer to do the right thing.

Labor government to do the right thing. This week, six members of Palestine action went on trial on charges of aggravated burglary, criminal damage and violent disorder after they broke into a factory that produces hardware for the Israeli weapons maker, ill but systems, and use sledgehammers to destroy equipment. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Thursday is ready to negotiate with President Trump on a U.S.-backed peace plan that calls on Ukraine. to cede large swaths of territory to Russia while restricting the size of Ukrainian military. The 28-point peace plan was negotiated by Trump's envoy, Steve Whitcroft, and Secretary of State Marco Rubio with Kremlin envoy, Keito Dmitriev, the head of Russia's sovereign wealth fund. The back-channel negotiations did not include any Ukrainian or European officials. The Trump administration's planning to open nearly 1.3.

billion acres of U.S. waters off the coast of Alaska, California, and Florida to new oil and gas drilling. In a statement, Earth Justice blasted Thursday's announcement by Interior Secretary Doug Bergam, writing, quote, Trump's plan would risk the health and well-being of millions of people who live along our coasts. It would also devastate countless ocean ecosystems. This administration continues to put the oil industry above people, our shared environment, and the law, unquote. Here at the UN Climate Summit in Belém, Brazil, more than 30 countries have opposed the current draft text because it does not include a roadmap for phasing out fossil fuels. The negotiations were disrupted Thursday when a large fire broke out here at the conference site. Thirteen people were treated for smoke inhalation.

Earlier on Thursday, U.N. Secretary General Antonio Gutettish urged delegates to reach a deal, also took question. questions from the press. Secretary General, what message do you want this conference to send to Donald Trump? We are waiting for you. Do you see a possibility of him engaging in this process in a positive way? Hope is the last thing that dies. After the news conference, I attempted to follow up with the UN Secretary General. Secretary General, what message you think Trump's not sending a high-level delegation?

I'm Amy Gooden from Democracy now. What do you think about this in of the day? Strategical by the presidency. Can you respond to the huge fossil fuel delegation that's here over? for 1,600 lobbyists? Should the U.S. ban the fossil fuel lobbyists? Thank you very much. Thank you.

The Trump administration has altered the CDC's website to contradict the scientific conclusion that vaccines do not cause autism. The change appears to have been ordered by Health and Human Services Secretary Robert of Kennedy Jr., a longtime anti-vaccine activists based on the debunk claims of disgraced ex-doctor Andrew Wakefield, who in 1998 published a paper in The Lancet, suggesting the MMR vaccine causes autism. The paper was later retracted over ethical violations and falsified data. At least 24 follow-up studies involving thousands of children found no link between the MMR vaccine and the onset of autism.

According to the CDC's own findings, measles vaccines have saved more than 90, million lives worldwide since 1974 and played a substantial role in reducing childhood mortality. In media news, Paramount Netflix and Comcast are formally submitted bids to buy Warner Brothers, Discovery, the parent company of the Warner Brothers movie studio, as well as HBO and CNN. The Guardian reports the White House favors Paramount's bid. The paper reports Paramount's largest shareholder, Larry Ellison, has spoken to White House officials about possibly axing some CNN hosts disliked by President Trump, including Aaron Burnett and Brianna Keeler.

And the funeral of former Vice President Dick Cheney was held Thursday at Washington National Cathedral. Cheney was a key architect of the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq, but Iraq was not even mentioned during the funeral. Former President George W. Bush delivered the eulogy, President Trump, and Vice President J.D. Van. Van Gogh. were not invited to attend. Cheney, a lifelong Republican, had endorsed Kamala Harris in the 2024 race. And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org, the Warren Peace Report. Yes, this is Democracy Now broadcasting at the UN Climate Summit,

COP 30, here in the Brazilian city of Belém, the gateway to the Amazon. I'm Amy Goodman. And I'm Germaine Sheikh. Welcome to our listeners and viewers across the country and around the world. As negotiations draw to a close, nations are still sharply divided over the future of fossil fuels. Delegates representing dozens of countries have rejected a draft climate agreement that does not include a roadmap to transition away from fossil fuels. Over 30 nations from Africa, Asia, Latin America, the Pacific, the United Kingdom,

as well as European Union member states have co-signed a letter opposing Brazil's draft proposals. The signatories include Mexico, Colombia, Guatemala, Sweden, France, Palau, and Vanuatu. While Petro states, including Saudi Arabia and Russia, as well as some of the world's largest fossil fuel consumers, China and India, reportedly rejected the proposal to transition away from fossil fuels, The U.S. did not even send an official delegation here to COP 30 with the Trump administration boycotting the climate talks. On Thursday, U.N. Secretary General Antonio Guterres took questions from the press.

This was the BBC. Secretary General, what message do you want this conference to send to Donald Trump? We are waiting for you. Do you see a possibility of him engaging in this process in a positive way? hope is the last thing that dies after the news conference i attempted to follow up with u.N. secretary general antonio gutterish secretary general what message you think trump's not sending a high-level delegation i'm amy goodman from democracy now

What do you think about this thing of the presidency of two packages? Can you respond to the huge fossil fuel delegation that's here over 1,600 lobbyists? Should the U.S. ban the fossil fuel lobbyists? Thank you very much. Thank you. Soon after U.N. Secretary General's news conference on Thursday, COP 30 negotiations were abruptly disrupted when a large fire broke out here at the conference site, shutting down the venue for hours into the night. About 30,000 people were evacuated, 13 people treated for smoke inhalation.

The fire is a metaphor for the state of the negotiations and the planet. As the UN warns, nations have made very little progress in the fight against climate change, putting the world on track toward dangerous global warming as greenhouse gas emissions remain too high. A recent annual emissions gap report suggested countries will not be able to prevent global warming from surpassing 1.5 degrees Celsius, which is the main goal of the Paris Agreement that was brokered a decade ago. Experts have said warming is likely to reach between 2.5 degrees Celsius, which is the main goal of the Paris Agreement that was brokered a decade ago. and 2.5 degrees Celsius, with the possibility of even higher temperatures in if countries don't fulfill their current climate pledges.

For more, we're joined by climate minister Ralph Reagan Vanu from the Pacific Island Nation of Vanuatu, one of the dissenting countries. Minister, we welcome you back to democracy now. We spoke to you when you were at the Hague just a few months ago. But if you can start off by talking about what just happened, you just came over to democracy now after participating in a press conference. There is going to be the final draft coming out of this UN climate summit. But then there's also the Belen Declaration. Explain both. So earlier this morning, we were informed by the presidency that there are about 80 countries who have put a red line on any mention of fossil fuels in the outcome from this meeting.

meeting this UNF triple C process, this COP, any mention is a red line for them. But I just came from a press conference where over 80 countries announced they will be meeting in Colombia next year in April for the first ever conference of state parties on developing a roadmap to transition away from fossil fuels. So this is a voluntary initiative outside of the UNF triple C process, which Colombia's Minister of Environment announced, and as I said, we were joined by over 80 countries, and this is something we want to do in response to the lack of a roadmap coming out of Belem. We were expecting, based on President Lula's statement at the beginning of the COP,

that there would be a roadmap. We were expecting that roadmap to come out, but it seems like it's not going to, but at least we have this other process that is now underway. What happened? We had over 80 states. we were in former the presidency who basically said we will not entertain any mention of fossil fuels in the outcome

statement from the Bellam COP. And I find that astounding, considering that we all know that fossil fuels contribute to 86% of emissions that are causing climate harm that is endangering the future of our islands and all countries in the world. It's the future of humanity

that's being endangered by fossil fuel production. We had the ICJ Advisory Opinion earlier this year clearly stating that all countries have a legal obligation to wind back fossil fuel production and take steps within their territories to transition away. The ICJ also said very clearly

1.5 degrees Celsius is the legal benchmark. And here at COP we're seeing countries questioning and wanting to remove reference to 1.5. So it's really astounding the fact that we have scientific clarity. The IPCC has clearly given us all the guidelines we need. Now we have legal clarity from the world's highest court.

And yet we don't see the political action coming from states who are members of the United Nations, members of the international order. And the fact that they are refusing to accept the best scientific evidence and legal obligations as defined by the world's highest court is quite astounding to countries that want to see real action. Well, Minister Reconvado, if you could explain what were the countries that were most opposed to coming up with this roadmap to transition away from fossil fuels? Well, clearly there's the Arab states led by Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is the most vocal in blocking and obstructing any progress. We also have what they call the LMDC Group, which is made up of high emitters as well from developing countries. We saw blockage also from the EU on adaptation finance, which is one of the big calls from the developing countries. We need more finance, as outlined in the Paris Agreement, for developing countries to be able to meet targets they set for themselves.

But in terms of a fossil fuel roadmap, the big blockers for L.MD.C. Arab group. And Minister, if you could say more about climate finance. You've said in the past that climate finance is not charity. It's a legal and moral obligation grounded in responsibility and capacity as affirmed by Article 9.1 of the Paris Agreement. Yes. I mean, the world has agreed in Paris that there is such a thing as climate finance. from the developed high emitting countries to be provided to the developing low-emitting countries to help them transition away. And what we're talking about is just an orderly transition away from fossil fuels for countries that have fossil fuel already production, that they can move away from that.

For countries that have not entered that pathway, they can also move out of that. So it's for everybody to participate. But certain countries don't have the finances we need like Vanuatu. We have a very small country just graduated from least developed country status. Our existing budgets are being halved by having to deal with climate crises, responding to extreme weather events. We need money to help us move. Explain. Tell us about how climate change affects Vanuatu, the low-lying Pacific island nations, the idea that some of these countries will disappear?

Yes, we have countries like Tuvalu and Kiribati, for example. They are coral atoll countries. Those countries, their land does not go higher than two meters above sea level. So already they're losing. They've lost entire islands. And according to the scientific consensus, they will lose the entire countries in the next 100 years. So these are states that will be gone from the map.

Vanuatu is fortunate in that we are high island. but we also are losing most of our low-lying areas where a lot of agriculture is, a lot of people live. So for us, we are politically independent states. We have decided on how we want to develop our countries, but we cannot. Our futures have been curtailed by the conduct of other large states who don't seem to care whether we have human rights equivalent to them and basically through their actions curtailing our futures and especially for our younger generations. If you could go back, let's go back to the question of climate finance, which is what is essential to prevent what you're saying. What did this draft call for? It did say that we should

triple, that states should triple the financing available to help countries adapt to climate change. So change by 2030 from 2025 levels. So in other words, within five years, triple the financing. Yes, that is what we've been asking for. I don't know. I think it's a red line. I don't think it'll get in the final text. But the point I want to make about climate finance is there are so many billions of dollars going into the fossil fuel industry, which is the cause of the climate crisis. If we get that money out of what is causing the climate crisis, we do have the funding available to help us with this transition, this tripling of adaptation finance we're talking about. It's very clear to us. You need to transition away from fossil fuels is the way to get that finance that we are needing. And where would the finance come from?

From the fossil fuel industry, from the subsidies that are provided. We just see governments giving huge handouts to fossil fuel companies to continue to extend the production pipeline. But in reality, we're seeing the entire world starting to move away. We are seeing the green energy revolution already in place. We are seeing many countries already getting more than half their energy needs from renewable energy. So this is happening. It's just obstinence and vested interests and profit that is keeping the fossil fuel pipeline alive. these cops worth it? I mean, you have, yes, the largest indigenous population accredited here

moving in on a thousand, but you have well over 1,600 fossil fuel lobbyists. What kind of effect does that have? And the fact that just mentioning the F word, what Kumi Nidu called fossil fuels, has been completely nixed in this. Now, Brazilian President Lula says he is is going to South Africa to the G20 with this declaration calling for a transition away. This is a large oil-producing nation where we are right now in Brazil. But are these gatherings worth it? The U.NF triple C process is a consensus-based process, and that is the problem with it. The problem is that we have a large number of countries who already know that we have to transition away from fossil fuels,

already know that we need that language. We need to respect the scientific consensus of the IPCC. We need to stick to the 1.5 degree goal. But we have a certain number of countries who are vested in the fossil fuel pipeline. I would say not their populations, but certain members of the political classes. And so we're seeing these people blocking progress for the entire humanity. And it's a result of this process that is flawed. So we need to fix the process.

And that is something we are looking at as well. And could you talk about the fact that trade was also mentioned in the draft agreement saying that in the next three climate summits, there will be a discussion of, what is that? Why is that significant? That's significant because it's one of the actual mechanisms that countries can hold against other countries to make them take climate action. So it's one of the few kind of binding measures we can use. If, for example, the EU says we won't accept products from countries that have a certain level of emissions, it is actually something that has the effect of a stick rather than just voluntary compliance. And so that's why it's so important because we are lacking these sticks. Finally, we have just 30 seconds, but we last spoke to you at the Hague. If you can talk about the International Court of Justice and how climate intersects with human rights

and the finding, the transitional, if you will, finding that took place this summer? This summer, the International Court of Justice handed down the advisory opinion, which basically said states have legal obligations to protect the climate system, which means they have legal obligations to transition away from fossil fuels.

States have to control the activities of private actors within their jurisdiction that are contributing to, greenhouse gas emissions, which means the fossil fuel companies, and that these obligations apply outside of the UNFCCC process. It's a creation of the entire corpus of international law, including the very foundations of the United Nations. So international cooperation, states allowing other states to continue to thrive

and their populations to have the rights that are guaranteed and the UN Human Rights Conventions requires states to take legal action on reducing emissions. Thank you so much for being with us. Ralph Regan Vanu is Vanuatu's climate minister, one of the islands in the Pacific Ocean, one of the dissenting climate ministers here. Up next, we turn to the indigenous leader, member of the Munduruku community of the Amazon rainforest, a leader of the protest here that shut down the cop last Friday, Alessandra Korop Manduruko, back in 30 seconds. mehine yaw yaw-e-o-e-ha-o-e-ha-o-e-ta-o-te-a-o-te-a-o-e-moe. I'm

Abutriya a lot of a lot of a while a boy o'er, a-wa-e-o-a-o-a-o-a-o-a-moe. This is Demo'o'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'h. We're broadcasting from the UN climate.

Summit, COP 30, here in the Brazilian city of Belém, the gateway to the Amazon. It's believed today will be the last day of the cop. I'm Amy Goodman with Nermin-Sheh. The Amazon rainforest, often described as the lungs of the planet, is teeming with life. Thousands of Amazonian land defenders, both indigenous people and their allies, have traveled to the tropical city of Berlin, Brazil, the gateway to the Amazon. carrying their message that the rainforest is at a tipping point but can still be saved. Hundreds of activists arrived on several caravans and river-born flotillas

in advance of a major civil society march. On Friday night, an indigenous-led march arrived at the perimeter of the cop's blue zone, a secure area accessible only to those bearing official summit credentials. The group stormed security kicking down a door. United Nations police contained the protests, but it was a marker of the level of frustration at the failure of the deliberations to deliver just an effective climate action. One of the leaders of the protest was Alessandra Khorop Munduruko, an iconic photograph of her at the forefront of Friday's action, shows her standing defiant as police and riot gear

line outside the venue. It's become a symbol of indigenous resistance. In 2023, Alessandra was awarded the prestigious Goldman Environmental Prize for her leadership in organizing, forcing British mining giant Anglo-American to withdraw from indigenous lands, including those of her people. I sat down with Alessandra Kora Panduruku earlier this week and began by asking her to introduce herself and to describe the protest she led last Friday. My name is Alexandra Korap and Munduruku. I'm a leader of Rio Tapajois. My name is Alessandra Korap Munduruku.

I'm a leader from the Tapajos River, which is here in the state of Parah. And to come here, my delegation of the Munduruku people, we took two days by bus, plus three days by boat. It was a long trip. We came with women, we came with children, we came with our shaman, so I'm not here alone. In Parah, there are over 17,000 Munduruku. So when we were abandoned So when we arrived here at COP 30, we were abandoned. We didn't have access to water.

We had a hard time finding meals. It was very difficult for our people who had traveled for so long to get here. And the people wanted to be heard. We came in a large delegation. And we wanted to speak and we wanted to be heard. But we were blocked. I have credentials to enter cop, but many of the Molduducu who are here do not. And so we decided that we needed to stop this cop.

We needed people to stop and to listen to us. They needed to listen to us because we are the ones that are saying what the forest is demanding. We are the ones that are saying what the river is asking for. We are going through a lot of violence in our territories. The rivers, the Tapajos River, the Maddoz. River, they're being privatized for the creation of hydro waste, for the transportation of soy, for agro business. This will expand the production of soy in Brazil.

It will lead to more deforestation. It will lead to more indigenous rights violations. So we blocked entry to COP because we need to be heard. So we live in the Amazon forest. We know what the river is going through. We need the river. We live with the river. Today, the tapajos river is dry.

There are days in which the river disappears. There are so many forest fires. So why is it that we cannot have the power to decide here at COP? Why is it that they only speak about us, but that we cannot decide? And now President Lula has said that he's going to consult the people about federal, the Cree number 1,200,200, which privatizes the rivers in the Amazon. But who is he going to consult the indigenous groups? Is he going to consult the jaguars, the fish, the animals?

How is this consultation going to be? Who needs to be heard? And there's another project that Lula and the government are trying to implement in the Tapajos region, in the Mundo Territory, which is called the Ferrogron, the Soy Railway. The Soil Railway, it serves to cheapen the export of soy commodities from Brazil to the global market. It will lead to the expansion of soy production. Soy does not grow under trees.

Soy leads to deforestation. Soy leads to the contamination of rivers by agotoxics. the invasion of indigenous territories. We need to demarcate indigenous lands in Brazil because large-scale commodity production is killing indigenous peoples. Yesterday, we had a Guarani Kaiwa, indigenous person who was killed in the state of Matagrosso-Dusu, with a bullet to his head.

So large-scale monoculture does not only kill with the pen by decision-making, by evicting indigenous groups from their territory, but it also kills with the gun. So we're here to urgently ask the international community to support the demarcation of indigenous lands and to support the President Lula revoke presidential decree, 12,600, which privatizes rivers in Brazil. So you led a flotilla down the river

and you shut down the UN Climate Summit. There's this iconic image of the UN Climate Summit, But the COP 30 president, he is the climate ambassador for Brazil, Andrea Correo de Lago, holding a Muduroko child. Can you explain what that is? You forced him to come out to negotiate with you. Look, we were there blocking the entry to the cop. And we arrived very early. We arrived at 5 a.m.

Everyone was hungry. We hadn't eaten breakfast. The children started crying, and the children are the strongest ones. And they were already hungry, and the sun was coming out. And we wanted to speak to an authority, either the president of Brazil or the president of COP.

And at some point, the President of COB said that we had to open up entry to COP. And we said, we are not leaving. You have to come out here and talk to us. And so he came out and we got the meeting with Minister Sonia Guajajara,

Minister Maria Silva because we knew that we had to be listened to. And that child, that baby that André Correa holds in his arms, that is a very important symbol because in holding that baby, that child represents the future of the Mundo people. And André, if he carries out these projects

of the government of Brazil, Brazil decides to implement these projects without consulting, without listening to the Munduruku nation, he is destroying the future of that child that he held in his own arms. So he's assuming the responsibility for that life and for the life of all Munduruku children and babies. Your protests have made enormous difference. Brazil has now created 10 new indigenous territories, as you were protesting this week, territories for indigenous people, which mean your culture and environment are protected under Brazilian law. That happened this past week. What exactly does that mean?

Adam, there's a much time, to start. We were here much before, thousands of years before colonization. began, so all of this territory is ours. But today, to demarcate an indigenous land, it's very difficult. It's a very long, bureaucratic and political process, where we have to prove many things. So we have to prove that that land is ours, even though it has always been ours. And if government does not demarcate the land, it means that we will be expelled, evicted from our territories, and we will be killed. Demarcation is something that needs to have.

happen because non-demarcation means our deaths. There are so many companies that have an eye on our land. So hydro power plants, mining, soy producers, land grabbers, illegal loggers, legal loggers. There's so many people that wants our territory. And there's so much land that still has to be demarcated. So let's talk about the Mundo-Kul lands in the Mita Pajos region. My land, Saurebapin, was declared yesterday. Declaration is the third step in the long process of demarcation of an indigenous land. So this is

one more step in ensuring the full rights to our territory. But there's another territory called Sauremaibu, which has already been declared but now the illegal occupants need to be removed from this land. That's the next step, the

physical demarcation. There are so many invaders in these lands. So, I producers, farmers, it's so easy for non-indigenous people to have access to land in Brazil. All they need to do is go there, de-forest, take down the forest, and they say that the land is theirs. That's how land grabbing works. It's so easy for them, but it's so difficult for us. And now there's this marco temporal, the temporal cut-off limit that says that we only have rights to lands where we were physically present in 1988. But we were always on these.

lands. It doesn't make any sense. So what I want to say is that we're very happy that our lands advanced in the demarcation process, but there are so many lands that still need to be recognized and demarcated in Brazil. In 2003, you won the Goldman Environmental Prize for fighting the British mining company Anglo-American. Can you explain what they were trying to do and what you won? So in 2019, after President Bolsonaro was elected, we started living a reign of terror in our territories. So there was a lot of invasion by illegal gold diggers, illegal wildcat miners, Garinperos.

They came into the territory, they brought with them illegal criminal groups. They brought with them prostitution, violence, contamination of rivers, contamination of fish. It was a real order of terror. And at that same time, between 2021 and 2022, we found out that the British Mining Company, Anglo-American, had filed a request to prospect minerals within our land. Anglo-American declared that our territory was not an indigenous land because it was not yet formally demarcated. But everyone knew that we live there.

Everyone knows that it's our territory. For us, it's our territory. And so we were forced to fight at the same time against the Garinpo, the illegal gold mining, and the big mining corporation Anglo-American. So we decided to speak out. We wrote a letter explaining everything that was happening, explaining that what we demanded, that we demanded that Anglo-American leave our territory immediately.

Amazon Watch, which is a partner, send this letter to the corporation, and they were obliged to step back, and they were obliged to remove their mining interest, to give up their mining interests within our territory because of our struggle. So for us, that is an indigenous land, that is a sacred land. It's where our fish are, our fruits. It's where we have authorization from the forest to step in. And so we will continue fighting. We have so many victories that the world needs to learn more about.

We kept a hydropower plant from being implemented in our territory, and we will continue fighting. Alessandra, I want to ask what keeps you going. I mean, indigenous land protectors, environmentalists, especially. Especially the indigenous are, face such violence. Talk about that threat that so many face and why you keep going. What keeps me going are my people. My people keep me going and my people keep me alive. The children, the territory, my family.

it's a collective struggle and this is what keeps me alive I've already suffered two attacks twice people have entered my house I've invaded my house to try to keep me from fighting threatening me but I will not give up

I want the entire world to know who the Munduruku people are who the indigenous peoples of Brazil are and what we represent I know who I'm facing in my struggle I know who I'm up against I'm not up against and just anyone. It's against

big corporations, against government, against these people that we commonly say that have power. But we have power. My people have power because we have a people, we have culture, we have the forest, we have the things that really

matter. So we know that we are powerful and not them. I am not afraid and I will not be silenced and I will keep fighting. I'm wondering if you could compare your struggles against the current government, the Lula government,

to the Bolsonaro government. It's very different. So there were very different struggles in these two political contexts. So former president, Bolsonaro, he would foster violence against indigenous peoples, openly. There were no human rights.

was no protection. He was incentivizing the invasion of all territories. He was against the poor. He was against the black population. He was against the indigenous groups. He was against Brazilian society. He was only in favor of corporations. And his speech was that indigenous people should become white people, that they should simply integrate Brazilian society and no longer be indigenous. He would say this openly. And the Munduruku people very openly confronted Bolsonaro. They very openly confronted the Garinpo. There was a lot of violence against the Munduruku women. Maria Leuza, a Munduruku leader from the Haitha region. She was attacked. Her house was burned. There was a lot of direct confrontation. Under Lula, things are very different.

Lula speaks openly about the protection of the Amazon. He speaks about demarcation. He sits down with us. There is dialogue. He is demarcating indigenous lands, but he still has a lot to learn. If he had learned what he should have learned by now, he would not have passed this decree, which privatizes the rivers and turns them over to companies and concessions.

He would be demarcating a lot more lands. So it's a lot better now, but there's still so much to be done. And finally, if you can look right into that camera and share your message to the world, to you tell you, for you who are there, you are doing what with the environment? So my message, as Alessandra Korap and Mundou to you who's watching this now, is...

what are you doing to the environment? What is your country doing to the environment? What is your corporation? What are your companies? What are your representatives doing to the environment and to indigenous rights? Do you know what they are doing? Are they respecting the rights of the indigenous peoples

and of the environment? Are you monitoring where investments are going? Are you monitoring how corporate activities are taking place on the ground? You need to know Because we here, we do not eat soy We do not eat gold We do not eat iron ore

We eat the fish and we eat the fruits from the forest And we need our forest standing So I ask you Please monitor your corporation Monitor your company Monitor your governments Watch your representatives Be aware of what they're doing

We need you to do this for us here in the forest This is my message to you from Alessandra Korap Munduruku. That's Alessandra Khorap Munduruku, one of the indigenous resistance leaders who shut down the cop last Friday for a few hours demanding climate action. Coming up, we'll speak with climate justice activist Harjit Singh,

advisor to the fossil fuel non-proliferation treaty. He's based in India, one of the countries that rejected moving away from fossil fuels. Stay with us. The humanity atariada, thinking only in arike. The humanity atyraided

just in richecese and forgetting the grandeza to be in-sacem-savoured, live only in-simisvado, caret the material, only the superficial that they're in the world and the plata for petrolio,

the man mata, He's going to be a criminal. For petrol, the man's man, Mata, volvying to an animal. That's Las Cafeteras in our Democracy Now studio. This is Democracy Now, Democracy Now.org. We're broadcasting at the UN Climate Summit.

That's COP 30, here in the Brazilian city of Belang, the gateway to the Amazon. I'm Amy Goodman with Nourmetzsche. Today is the last scheduled day of COP 30. As we go to air, the final text agreement has not yet been reached. Decisions are made by consensus at COPS, requiring agreement among 192 countries. The biggest fight is over the exclusion of a roadmap to transition away from fossil fuels. Reportedly, Saudi Arabia, China, Russia, and India are among those that rejected the roadmap. But more than 80 countries have joined a call to demand a roadmap be included.

To discuss all of this and more, we're joined by Hartjeet. Singh, Strategic Advisor to the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty, founding director of Satatsampa, the Climate Foundation, a social justice group. He's also the global convener of the filled loss and damage fund campaign, usually in New Delhi, India, joining us here from Belém. In fact, yesterday, people might not have realized you were also a guest on the show because you were right behind us with many other people protesting. about loss and damage. If you can start off in these last hours of the cop, and it's our last broadcast directly from here in Brazil, what's happened so far?

Well, we came to this cop to get a very concrete decision on just transitioning away from fossil fuels, to get a mechanism so that we can do it in a much more cooperative manner. We also wanted a very strong decision in the form of a roadmap to move away from fossil fuels. And I want to remind everybody that two years ago in Dubai at COP28, we got a decision for the first time after three decades that the world has to transition away from fossil fuels.

Not that strong, didn't mention phase out of fossil fuels, but strong enough. But for the last two years, nothing has happened. So this COP, we wanted a very strong language and a clear roadmap to move away from fossil fuels. And, of course, finance remains a massive issue. If we do not provide finance, the implementation will not happen. What do you mean by finance? Why should richer countries give money to poorer countries?

When we talk about the climate crisis or the world that we are living in, which is 1.5 degrees Celsius warmer, and all the disasters and climate impacts that we see, because of that, it's developed countries who are responsible for putting disproportionate amount of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. That's the primary cause, and I'm talking about fossil fuels, coal, oil and gas, and that's why it is such an important issue.

So the cumulative accumulation that we have seen of these greenhouse gases from fossil fuels are primarily from developed countries. So they are the ones responsible for the crisis. Of course, now most emissions come from developing countries who need finance and technology so that they don't have the same fossil fuel-based development that the Western countries had over the last 200 years.

And, Harjit, if you could talk about the fact you're from India, at the moment, nine out of ten of the most polluted cities in the world are in South Asia between India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. So if you could talk about the, I mean, literally lethal effects of this in India, for example, now lung disease is the second leading cause of death, whereas just decades ago it was the eighth, number one. Number two, the fact that previously, that most polluted cities in the world were not in South Asia, but in China. So how did this happen in South Asia? And what did China do to alter its position? I mean, there's no doubt that the epicenter of pollution has shifted from East Asia to South Asia. China declared a war on pollution, and I would say it has largely won because of its top-down enforcement. And when we look at South Asia, we are dealing with the same. so-called developmental problems. Very weak waste management, unregulated construction. We find

a huge dependence on fossil fuels, coal, oil and gas. And because of lack of governance and resources, we are stuck with that model. And I must also mention that 83 out of 100 most polluted cities in the world happen to be in India. So we are dealing with a massive problem. It's not just a Delhi problem or a Dhaka problem. All other so-called second-tier cities, have similar issues. So we must declare a war on pollution like China did. And for that, what we require is, of course, dealing with the waste management issues, moving away from fossil fuels, massive investment in public transport. And that has to be a revolution now, which we have not seen in India and in South Asia yet. We also need to promote electric mobility.

Yes, we are making some strides, but a lot more is required to make that happen. And we are really lagging behind on waste management issues. So what we need is a revolution that comes from the citizens who need to also recognize that they have a role to play. But more importantly, holding the politicians to account, the fact is in India, its air pollution is still not a election issue. It's still very caste based and based on jobs and economy. Air pollution must become the most important election issue until that happens. We will not be able to make that shift. And Harjit, if you could talk about this is Comp 30. There have been 30 climate summits. Many people say now there's no agreement reached. People are dissatisfied with whatever

agreement will be reached. But what is the utility of these summits, especially for the country's most vulnerable to climate change? I mean, this is the only place where we can get justice. However ineffective it has been, however slow it has been. Can we really rely on G7s and G20s, those large group of economies who are only focused on GDP and trade, but not really protecting environment and people. That's why you need a space where we, as 200 nations, who are almost equal. Bangladesh can challenge the European Union and Malawi can challenge the U.S. But the only difficulty or the main difficulty that we face here is everything happens on consensus.

We have allowed polluters to take over this process. and make it ineffective. I'm sure you have talked a lot about 1,600 fossil fuel lobbyists who are moving around, who have made this space ineffective. That's what we have to challenge. We cannot discard the space. Do you think the fossil fuel lobbyists should be banned?

Absolutely. Like we did in our fight against tobacco. WHO did not allow the tobacco industry to have a seat at the table. Why are we allowing the fossil fuel lobbyists to negotiate? It's like inviting arsonists to tell us how to put out the fire. Well, speaking of fires, yes, this place is just recovering from a fire

yesterday where everyone was evacuated. We'll be broadcasting from New York on Monday, leaving Belém, Brazil, where we are today. Harjit Singh, want to thank you for being with us, Strategic Advisor to the Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty. That does it for our show. Special thanks to our local AP crew here at COP 30 in Belam. Hi, my name's Luke, and I'm the technical. director. Carlos Vargas, AP producer. Hello, I'm Jules and I'm cameraman on this fantastic

show. I'm Diego, AP Camera. Hey, my name is Pablo and I'm doing sound and technical support. And special thanks also to Taser, Mrs. Olivero Fernandez. And to our Democracy Now Belantin, Turina, Nudorra, Narmine, Sheikh-Marie, Aenez Teresena, Sam Alcoff,

and Dennis Moynihan. And to our New York team, Mike Burke, Renee. Felt, Dina Guzder, Messiah, Roads, Nicole Salazar, Sarah, Nassar, Taymaria, John Hamilton, Robbie Karen, Honey, Massid, Safat, Nazale, our executive director, Julie Crosby. I'm Amy Goodman. Special thanks to Nermin Shea.