MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Reacts to Song Yadong Knocking Out Umar Nurmagomedov, Mike Perry Injury and Much More

Episode Date: September 1, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin react to Song Yadong’s shocking knockout over Umar Nurmagomedov and the altercation with Song and Usman Nurmagomedov after the fight. We’ll also discuss Mike Perry moving forward with his fight — and taking less money — after Dillon Danis’ disappearing act. Should Perry have still taken the fight and now that he’s dealing with an injury afterwards, has his overall stock taken a big hit? All this and more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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starting September 8th on CBC Gem. Welcome back to the fighter versus the writer. I am Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown and Matt. We didn't have a ton to talk about last week, but we got plenty to talk about this week, especially one of the biggest upsets of the sport happening over the weekend. Mike Perry was back in action.

It was a weird weekend. No massive, massive fights, but plenty of happens. So got plenty of talk about today. I guess two upsets, really, right? Yeah, yeah, I guess you could say that. True. Yeah, it's a good old Mike Perry lost too, which was very unfortunate, but not in the same way that the other upset happened, Umar,

but I mean, still an upset, man. Like, you know, that was a risky fight and he, you know, got paid the price for it. Yep, always a risk there. We'll talk about that a little bit. We got to open and talk about the Umar and the Magamato, a song yadong fight. You know, it was a, on paper, it was like, this was just almost, I don't say, this is almost like Umar staying busy until he can get his title shot kind of thing.

You know what I mean? Like, you know, song, incredibly good fighter. But the criticism I had a song, I think we talked about last week or a couple weeks ago, is that he just has trouble against those elite top five guys. Like he's beating everybody else. But you get to those top five guys and that's where he struggles. Boy, he landed a knockout shot like you would not really have knocked Omar completely unconscious, which I don't think a lot of people saw coming.

I mean, you could say, you know, maybe he could win that fight, but I don't think a lot of people saw him knocking out. Umar and Muggar Madoff. I mean, it was nasty. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, look, man, as long as that guy, he's always dangerous. And, you know, you make one slip up like Umar did and it's lights out, man. And he always throws for the fences too, you know what I mean?

Like he's swinging hard as he can all the time. You got to love that guy, man. Good for him. You know, he's a talented guy, man. You know, I think he's got a lot of potential. And, you know, that's just the sport we live in, man. That's the sport that we play is. Like, anybody can get fucked up any day, you know what I mean?

And that's just, that's pretty, what's been pretty impressive about Habib's camp, right? It's just the, their record. I mean, God, you said it the other day a couple weeks ago. What's their record? They've lost like two or three fights, a hundred and two or some shit. It was like a hundred and two. Like, a hundred wins, two losses.

Yeah, I mean, that's unreal, you know, in this sport. And, you know, now it's three, I guess, right? And, but that's the way the sport is, man. And, you know, so that's what keeps it exciting. That's what keeps us watching. and keeps us on our toes. Is it, I mean, like, Song has fought a lot of good guys,

and obviously, as I mentioned, he's lost to, like, the top five guys. He's lost to, which is my biggest criticism. It was like, you know, he's very good, but he just couldn't quite get over that hump. Now, he got over that hump on Saturday. He got a huge win over a legit top five, probably top three guy in the world,

and it does shake things up a little bit, which is fun. I think sometimes you need that in a division like this win. Not to say that he got stagnant by any means, but I think everyone kind of assumed if Umar had won, He's just waiting for the outcome of Marab and Peter Yan, too, to figure out who he's going to fight, whether O'Malley's going to slip in there or whatever. We kind of just had this assumption of what was going to happen. Now, like, everything's kind of shaking up because, you know, song kind of throwing, you know, I mean, I think what people forget,

so long as he's a old guy who's been fighting for, you know, 15 years and there's just like a last-minute haymaker to his career. He's 28 years old. but it does shake things up because now like you can't guarantee matchups you can't say oh well this guy's gonna fight that guy like i would imagine if i'm shana mali i'm pretty happy because he beats song yodong and now he's right in the catbird seat like waiting to see what happens in the title fight so yeah it's a really interesting kind of time and i like i enjoy that like i'm not saying i was rooting against umar anything like that but more just like we all assumed umar would win and when that doesn't happen it's kind of fun What is all of Song's losses? I know Amali was won. Who else has he even lost to? I'm not even coming to mind of other losses that he's had. Let me look it up here.

Let's see. You don't have it on top of your head. You're like the encyclopedia. I know, I know, I know, I know. Let's see. He lost to Sean O'Malley. He lost to Peter Jan. He lost to Corey Sanhagen.

Kyler Phillips, which was like four years, five or six years ago. And yeah, pretty much that. That's in the UFC. So, you know, Corey, I mean, that was a great fight. It was a TKO. It was a doctor-stop. Remember he had that nasty cut? You remember that?

He had a really nasty cut in that fight, and he got stopped. He lost to Peter Yon. He lost to Sean O'Malley. Now, that does hurt. It's like, you know, that does hurt a little bit. Peter Yon's champion. You know, maybe it doesn't. I mean, I think personally, I think if Peter Yon wins and defeats Marav for a second time,

they're going to do O'Malley. and Peter Yon again. Oh, for sure. That was such a good fight. No doubt the UFC would still like Sean O'Malley to be champion. So, I mean, that's an easy one, you know what I mean? And to his credit, like, Sean, I know Sean said on his YouTube channel, if Marab wins, like, they should do Marab and Song Yadong.

And I agree with that. I think that's a good bit of matchmaking. So, yeah, I think it's like you kind of do have a kind of set up in a better way now. Yeah, that's a good point. I think Sean's correct on that. That's very humble of him to say that, but yeah that's exactly what it should be and look you beat umar the way that he did that earned you a title shot you know it almost i'm not going to say it doesn't matter what happened in the past like your record

and who you lost to but you obviously because obviously it does a little bit but you know the fact that he beat umar beat him by knockout finished him it's hard to deny a guy a title shot after that right that's just like nobody does that yeah and you got to remember umar like he only had the one loss and it was to mirab and that was a tremendous fight like that was a bad that was an incredible five-round fight so yeah i mean i think you're i think sean really nailed it honestly like if peter yon wins you got to do you got to do yon amalley that's easy i think he's right and if marab wins and i do and i'm with you i appreciate that sean amalli's like you should do marab and song because I think he knows he's not going to get Marab again

because he's already lost him twice. Yeah, we might eventually, but, you know, the thing with that is also is, you know, I mean, I don't know who else would even be in the line for the titles. Is there any other names you can even think of? I can't think of anybody else that would even really be a contender right now. And, you know, that's a, if Marabreub happens to win,

I mean, look, First, we got to see the fight. Like, doing Marab Yon 4, I don't think is out of the question. Yeah. You know, I mean, that's, I don't know if they've ever even done that in the UFC, but, but man, I mean, that could be a really close fight again. Yeah, 100%. Like, that could absolutely just be another barn burner that comes down to the wire.

And they're like, dude, we just got, we got to do this again. I know the UFC's not really about that. But, you know, I wouldn't mind seeing those guys fight five. or 10 more times, you know what I mean? Yeah. But with that said, the fact is Marab and our song is a good matchup for Marab. You know, so that plays in a Sean's favorite too, right?

You know, maybe he gets another win and like, look, he's got to face Marab again. You know, he's got to be thinking that song doesn't, you know, you never say they don't have a chance, right? Just beat Umar. But, you know, matchup-wise, I mean, Marab's going to be a heavy favorite in that fight. he is but at the same time like I said I mean

umar is a heavy favorite in that fight he got caught you know what I mean so you just don't know um but I but I think I think like one of the bigger differences in that too is you know when you're talking about a wrestler being a big favorite like there's less risk of them getting knocked out you know when it's like you want to say umar and song like you know umar might be way better than song but you know you're throwing big shit

shots I get and that's what happens. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting. And, like, you know, I think we've talked about before, like Bantamate's an incredible division. Absolutely. You know, there's lots of good young up-encomers. And, like, what you don't want, what you don't want to happen is what happened a lot of lightweight,

where you get kind of stagnant with, like, the same four guys fighting for titles. You want to give young guys, new guys, a chance to fight for a title. Well, now we got one with Song Yadong. Like, he's been around forever, but this is his biggest win by far and doing it in such dramatic fashion, knocking out a guy like Umar. So I think there's nothing wrong with shaking it up like that. And by the way, I'm not, I'm with you. Like if Yon and Marab are an incredible fight, I wouldn't hate seeing it a fourth time or a fifth time or a sixth time.

But it always been, like you got to remember, like the first fight was pretty lopside in terms of Marab just going take down, take down, take down. The second fight was closer, but Yon dominated him for a lot of that fight. He beat him up pretty good on that fight. So I think it really does depend on the third fight goes. If Yon beats him up again, I don't know that we necessarily need to see it at a fourth fight. Sure. saying to the Morab makes the adjustments and he dominates Peter Yan this time. I don't think we necessarily see a fourth fight.

But there are options now. And by the way, for all the, like O'Malley, you know, haters or O'Malley against whatever he wants, I mean, if he, if Peter Yon wins, that, you just, it's set up because that first fight was awesome. That first fight between Peter Yon and Sean O'Malley was amazing. I don't care who he thought won. I know you think Yon won. I think I leaned a little bit towards O'Malley, but doesn't really matter. give me that all day. I would watch that a thousand times right now.

You know what I mean? And like I said, and if it is Marab, Marab and song is a fun, interesting fight. Like, I think that could be a really fun, interesting fight. So it's a good time to be a band to win. By the way, I think U-Mar can bounce back from this, obviously, still young enough and things like that. But it is a devastating loss considering, you know,

he had so much bad blood with Marab, and it felt like perfectly set up for them to do that rematch. They're not going to do that rematch right away. And, like, not now. And I know the UFC doesn't do stuff like this, but just in my head, I'm like, they should just do a round, Robin. Like every three months, like, you know what I mean? Just everybody fights everybody, just see who comes out on top. Because, man, I mean, what a bunch of killers right there.

If there was like one more person or two more people that we could bring in, like have a tournament, you know? But you need a few more for that. And I'm not sure if there's anybody, you know, I mean, Corey's out there, but, you know, I can't think of anyone else that would even I mean, conversation there. Mario Batiste, I think he's earned it with what he did to Corey.

Okay. He's got on the pretty good guy. And he had a good fight. He lost to Umar, but it was a good fight. It was a fun fight. So, you know,

you got Mario Batiste. And by the way, I'm not opposed to Corey either. Corey's always right there. So yeah, but they're never going to do that. You know better. No,

no, but wouldn't that be fun, though? Like, that's a, it'd be a blast. That can make a lot of fun right there. But it would,

you know, especially if we could bring back like one night tournaments, It's just put the four of them, you know, together and just see who comes out on top, man. Yeah, never happened, but it would be fun. Yeah, you know. After the fight was over, you know, Song just landed the knockout shot of all knockouts. He did it in China, his native country, and he celebrated.

He's running around the cage celebrating, which is pretty normal. But in the midst of all this, he ends up actually running into Usbander Magabedov, who is Umar's brother and corner man. and when you watch reyplays, everyone's freaking out because it looks like Umar kind of takes a swing at song. Now, he is denied that he did that. He's like, I didn't try to hit him. I wasn't trying to hit him.

I wasn't trying to hit him. He's just trying to get to his brother who was knocked out brutally. And I get it. I do understand that part of it. Like, it's your family. Probably if you're going to get that emotional, probably not a good idea to be a corner man because that can happen. You know, like your guy can get absolutely brutally knocked out.

And he said, you know, if I wanted to hit him, I would have hit him. I didn't hit him. Daniel Cormey, he didn't hit him. I know it's kind of making much to do about nothing, but what does you make in that situation? Because, like, I mean, watching the replay, it did look like he hit him, but it was all rapid fire.

And obviously, song didn't stop. When, like, song got hit, stopped, turned around, started another fight. Like, he just kept going. So clearly, even if he did hit him or he accidentally hit him, didn't really do any damage. So what do you make of that whole situation?

Because it was, it was hot for a minute. You know what I mean? Like when that happened, you're like, oh, shit, what's going to happen here? Or is it going to pop off? What did you make that old situation, Matt? Yeah, fortunately, there's one of those situations where, you know, I guess the news a little slow this week. And I wish I could get, like, a good headline clip out of this or something.

But realistically, I think it was a nothing burger. And, you know, I think it would be forgotten. I think, you know, I don't think that Usman meant anything by it. And like he said, like Cormier said, like he didn't hit him. If he wanted to hit him, he would have hit him. His brother's there, like all kinds. You know what I mean? His brother just got knocked out, like the emotions that you're going through.

You know, it's a crazy time. Look, even if it's not your brother, like you're just as a cornerman. Like, yeah, you care about your guy and you're running in there. And you're trying to help him out and support the best that you can and, you know, make sure he's okay. And, you know, a lot of crazy shit's happening. Like if you ever, you know, I guess no one listening. probably ever been into the in that cage before in that situation or you know maybe I don't know there might be some fighters listening who knows but you know the the fact is like

you know it's it's a it's a absolutely intense crazy situation I dealt with it for a first time last time I cornered a guy in the UFC and my fighter Drews Eye Herald and he got knocked out and you know they yelled at me to go in there and help him out because he couldn't tell who was who and what was what and man it is a fucking intense situation is the first time I ever actually, you know, ran into the side of the cage when I had a fighter knocked out. And I could tell you, man, what's going through your head is, you know, you're kind of living off instinct, going off instinct at that point. There's not really a lot of thought, you know, like you only care about one single thing. So, so with that said, that's why I don't think

he tried to hit him. Obviously, he didn't hit him. I think his mind was a thousand percent focused on his brother. And that's that. I mean, like, I know that, I know, you know, Daniel, Cornwallade talked about this. It's true. Like, you're not allowed to just jump in there after the fight. They bring you in. The commission brings you in, you know, one by one or how many, you know, how many people are going to come in. And generally speaking, you know, guys aren't knocked out like that.

I think my only thing, I think this kind of rings back to where you see, like, when people select their corner men and they, you know, it's like their wife or their girlfriend or their boyfriend or brother, cousin, whatever. You got to remember the emotional element of that. I'm not defending Ousman from being like, you know, if he actually did it, which I don't think he did. I think he just like reacted because songs like running right at him and it was just a bad timing. But that's his brother. And I'm not defending it. I'm not saying like you shouldn't like, you know, I'm not saying that it's better because it was his brother. He's allowed to get away with something or he did something bad.

But it's an emotional moment. You know what I mean? And, you know, it's not like Omar had been through this like 10 times. Like he was, you know, one loss in his entire career. And he got, I mean, he got brutally knocked out. That was a scary knockout. He dropped bad. And the fight was over.

I get it from that perspective. Now, maybe you could say, well, maybe you shouldn't have your brother in your corner. Usman's one of the best lightweights in the world. He's always in his corner. They're always in each other's corners if they're able. So, yeah, like, I don't blame him for that. That's just normal, you know, fight stuff. Like, that's who you have in your corner.

But for Usman, I get the emotional element of it, right? Like, it's your brother. You know what I mean? Like, dude, I've been to a million. of your fights, Matt, and like, as unbiased as I'm supposed to be as a journalist, you are a friend. And it, I mean, it's an emotional day watching wins

and losses, you know what I mean? Like, when you see that, like, when that happens, you're like, oh, God, you know, you're kind of on the edge of your seat. So I'm not, I mean, I am defending Uson in that regard. Like, I get it. You know what I mean? I get the emotional element of it because it's his brother.

It's beyond just fighting. This is his family. Yeah. This isn't tennis or basketball or something. And, you know, like you're getting knocked out. There's blood. There's, you know, permanent damage that can happen. You get injured.

It's very intense. So, you know, the emotions are way different. And cornering is tough, man, because you can't control anything, you know. It's just, it's really, really tough. You know, all you can do is kind of hope for the best and yell out the best advice that you can give. And then it's up to them, you know. But it makes a tough situation. and, you know, that's, it's, I guess even like watching in the crowd, man, I mean, I think

anybody that's been to a UFC, you can feel it. You can feel what it'd be like if that was your brother in there. You know, I'm not a big fan of having people that close to you in the corner. I get why they do it. I'm not nothing to guess. Obviously, nobody knows Umar better than his brother. So there's some advantages to it like that. but, you know, this is the exact reason why I don't think it's the best to have, you know, someone close to you like that in the, in your corner.

You just don't know what's going to happen out there. It doesn't matter how much you were supposed to win. It doesn't matter how much better you are than the guy. This is MMA, and insane shit happens all the time. Yeah, and also, I do think, like, there's a certain, I think there's always an element when it comes to the Narragamatov team to, like, in a weird way, there's a group of people who like to vilify them. Because they're so dominant, they're so good. You know what I feel like it's almost like, oh, they're the bad guys. And one of their guys finally lost.

And I'm like, no, I don't celebrate a guy's downfall like that. Like, it was an emotional moment. You know what I mean? Even if it wasn't his brother, you know what I mean? Like, you know, it could have just easily been Khabib who's his cousin or just, you know, whoever else was in the corner. Their team is just their family. Like, it's different than most teams because their entire team is related.

Like, you know what I mean? So it's a little different than just the average team. Well, as I said, that adds another element to it too, right? It's like, who do you have corner you? Like, even the guys that aren't related, I mean, they're like brothers. From what I understand, I never been to the camp, but from what I understand that. I mean, they're like brothers, the whole teams. You know, they're like family.

So, yeah, it's like, you know, who else do you have corner? You know, even if it wasn't your actual brother, you know, your brother in training might feel the same way and he might jump over the cage because they're just as close. Yeah, and like I said, it would be different if Usman literally took a swing and tried to knock out Song Yadong. We'd have a much different conversation, you know, with the whole, because, like, I don't know if you saw last week. I think it was Patty Pimblit, Gable Steven, and one other person got fined, like, $2,500 for jumping on the cage after, after a win. And while, you know, everyone's up in arms and, oh, this is bullshit, you shouldn't be able to, you know, whatever. When the commission's, like, after what happened with that Khabib Connor thing, we just can't.

take that chance. Like, you know, like, you jump up on the cage, you jump over to, you know, shake Dana White's hand or you, or the president's there, whatever. We get it. But that doesn't mean something can't pop off to make you just jump into crowd and start a fight. While it's hard pressed to agree with the commission on most things, it's like, I kind of get it because I remember that night. That was one of the craziest, like, what the, you know, he chokes out Connor and boom, he's over the cage going after Dylan Danis. Now, I do get the instinct of wanting to punch Dylan Dennis, but maybe not in that situation. But when they brought that up in the commission meeting, I was like, yeah, I kind of get it. So, like, in this situation, I understand you're trying to keep the calm. You're worried because, like, Ousman actually does take a swing. But I just didn't think that. I don't, like I said, they ran into each other. It was an accident. You know what I mean?

Like, and if you watch, and if you continue to watch the fight, at one point, Song goes over and talks to Khabib, and, like, obviously, I'm sure there's a language barrier there because song doesn't speak English. And I'm quite sure that, you know, Kibb doesn't speak, you know, Chinese or whatever. but um like he went over to pay respects and make sure umar was okay yeah it was just cool of him yeah yeah and like that's what i'm saying like what you said is true you're making my i mean i get i i do get it because when you watch the replay it does look like whoa he took a swing at him or he tried an elbow or whatever so i understand it but like if actually if it actually pops off if uzman tackles song and like they got to bring insecurity it goes crazy that's one thing the two things

with this is one, it was an accident. They just ran into each other. And two, Uspen didn't do anything. As soon as it was over, you could see, he rushed right over to Umar. He was worried about Umar. I get it. And so yeah, I think it's a whole lot of nothing. But, you know, like I said, in the moment, I do get it because you're watching, like, whoa,

did he just take a swing at him? You know, it's just so rapid fire. But you want to watch Mayhem unfold. Watch that. Watch the Connor Kabim Thinger. Go back and watch Strike Force in Nashville when Mayhem Miller jumped in the ring. Oh, yeah.

by the Diaz brothers. That's different. Yeah. And those types of things happen. I mean, look, you can speculate all damn what you think was supposed to, what he was trying to do or whatever. Like, the fact is, he didn't land a punch. So it's kind of, it's one of those things.

Like, who cares? You know what I mean? He didn't, he didn't land anything. So he didn't throw anything. And, you know, again, it was pretty obvious watching it. Like, if he wanted to land it, he would have landed it. So, yeah. Yeah, so it's ultimately it's kind of a nothing burger.

You know, I mean, that's kind of part of the, with MMA getting as popular as it is, well, UFC getting as popular as it is, MMA is debatable on how popular it is. But with the UFC in its popularity, I mean, these are just kind of things people like to look at under a microscope and find anything they can to talk about with social media, just to make a social media post it. Everybody's looking for content, right? Everybody's trying to make the next piece of content. that goes viral and get something out of it. So that's just the, you know, this is like literally nothing at all.

But to that point, let me ask just real quick before we move on. You kind of talked about it already, but I want to mention it. Do you think they need to have that kind of hard conversation within the team about, like, who needs to be there when this happens? Because, like, Khabib, when it happens, he watched the replay. Kibb tried to grab Uspin before he'd get in the cage because he knew you're not supposed to just jump in there after a fight. And Uzman jumped in the cage.

Do you think they got to have that only? almost like, you know, we got to have a conversation about who's going to be in the corners because if you can't emotionally handle watching your brother lose, which you never watch his brother lose, but outside the Marabite, and I'm not sure if he was in the corner that night. It's almost like you've got to have that conversation who needs to be there, who doesn't need to be there. Because they do have a big team, you know what I mean? Like, they do have, you know, it's not just two or three people.

Like, they have a massive team. And obviously, Khabib leads it. Like, he's the head coach. I would imagine, even between rounds, like, that's the voice you're listening to as Khabib. Maybe they need to have that conversation. Like, hey, you know, if you can't handle your brother losing, maybe we don't have you in a corner when he fights, that kind of thing. Because, like you said, you're not a big fan of it.

I've never been a big fan of either. Like, oh, his league quarterman's his girlfriend. I'm like, that's not going to end well. That's never, that's never going to be. Like, Mike Perry does that. Yeah, but you know what I mean? Like, it's almost like maybe they need to have that conversation. Maybe that's the bigger conversation they need to have, like, because obviously,

Umar's very good and I don't know that he's going to lose a bunch of times, but do you really want that to happen again, you know? I think that's a conversation needs to be had. Yeah, I mean, you can have a conversation, but he's going to do what he wants to do in the end, right? And, you know, I mean, the commission isn't the best that really set in rules anyway. I mean, they just kind of set rules that whatever the UFC tells them to do. Well, this one was self-governed. This was the UFC acting.

It was a commission, too, by the way, just so you're aware. Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, they're basically self-governing everywhere they go at this point, right? Like the commission just to, you know, I don't know, just people just doing what they're told by the UFC at this point. So, you know, so I don't know what kind of conversation you have about that, you know. I don't know what would convince someone to not bring a certain person in the corner just because the UFC says, hey, you should think about who you have in your corner. I mean, fighters are really so fond of listening to people.

I mean, that conversation might be Kabeeb leading that conversation. It may not be the UFC. Kibb might be like, hey, yeah. You know, maybe it's not best if you corner your brother when he fights, that kind of thing, you know? Yeah, that's up to Khabib, right? But ultimately it's going to be up to Umar. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be up to him.

You know, Kib could give him all the advice that he wants. And if that's what makes him comfortable, that's what makes him comfortable. Yeah. So the other, you know, after you, from Shanghai, we had a couple of our fights, you know, happened that night, and one of the bigger ones was the dual arena card where Mike Perry was supposed to fight Dylan Dennis.

Dylan Danis dropped out two days before the fight and made some excuse about he had a cut in his arm or whatever. I don't even know. I don't know why you trust the guy in the first place to book a fight around it. It backfired spectacularly as we saw over the weekend. But Mike Perry decided to stay on the card. Apparently took a pay cut,

which I thought was really odd. I think that's really kind of shitty. mean, you know, but emotionally, or just cut your pay. But then they bring in a guy and Brandon Jenkins to fight him on short notice.

And I met Brandon during that whole MVP-M-M-A fight card thing when he was on the undercard when he fought Chris Avila. Good dude, good fighter, solid fighter out of Vegas, trains the syndicate and M.A. And Mike Perry took the fight

and it's almost like worst-case scenario happened. He throws his shoulder out, dislocates his shoulder, and he gets body kicked to hell. It was a nasty body kick to basically knocked him out, put him down the ground,

beat him. I know we talked a couple weeks ago about Mike Perry like, you know, kind of walking away from bare knuckle for now to focus on MMA. Did the NADS fight? Then he did the Dillon Dan's fight, which obviously didn't happen. Saturday night, BKFC did have a big card in Fenway. I don't know if you got a chance to see any of it. It was awesome.

It was really cool being outside, like at the baseball park. It was just a cool atmosphere. Joe Lozahn got a big win. But what do you make of what Mike Perry is doing now? Because now Mike Perry is dealing with a separated shoulder and that could put him out of action for a while. Like, people think it's just like, oh, you pop your shoulder back in, you're all good. No?

Especially if you tear ligaments and tear things. Like, you know, your shoulder didn't dislocate by accident. Like, it hurts. What do you make of what's going on my parent? Because, like, you know, we talked about it then. Like, you know, I've said, I wish you'd go back to bare knuckle because that's like that sports built for him. And I understand wanting to punch Dylan Dennis in the face. Well, that ain't happening because he dropped out of the fight.

I wouldn't rebook that for a billion dollars. There's no chance he's going to show up. but now you're dealing with a loss, a separated shoulder, and less money, and like it or not, that's a loss on your record. So what do you make it what's going on with what's going on in Mike Perry right now? Yeah, I don't know, man. Like, I don't know who's managing him or advising him through all this. Like, who the hell allowed there to be a pay cut if Dylan Dennis didn't show up?

Like, who the hell agreed to that? And I mean, that's just the oddest thing I've ever heard. I mean, you get a certain amount to show up and you get a certain amount to fight and, you know, a certain amount to win. Like, that's all that there is to it. And, you know, so that was a very odd little piece of this puzzle here. But, you know, with Mike Perry, you know, it was odd first that he even did this fight like we were talking about. Like, you know, just stick with the bare knuckle. I'm not sure what made him want to go over.

and I mean, I guess we understand, right? He wanted to make some money, you know, fight Dylan Dennis. But BKFC is where his money is. That's his bread and butter. And, you know, if I'm advising him, I tell him, stick with that. And but even with all of that, look, you go over to this dual arena thing, you just got to have the right contract. If you're there to make money, make sure you're making money

no matter what happens. Like, what are you there for? You're there to make money. So I don't think he's there to revive his MMA career and work back to the UFC or anything. He's there to get a big paycheck versus Dylan Dennis. So make sure that, like, you're getting paid no matter what. I don't know why that didn't happen.

Other than that, it's like, you know, what do you do? You know, he's just got to recover now and get back and go back to the BKFC. but you know it was like the MVP of m a thing he did when he did that when he did that fight with nate dyes i mean he was there to fight nadez and get the bag yeah if they if it was in his contract that Nate pulls out and he doesn't get the same amount of money i mean that's fucking ridiculous i don't know who would possibly agree to that like you should get paid the same amount that you get paid to show up and you get paid to win that's all there is to it

Yeah, that really bothered me And by the way, like, I'm not knocking him Because, like, I get he wants to fight He's still making a paycheck of some kind If I'm like Perry, I'm like, why would you even take that? And they're like, hey, man, we're going to cut your paycheck by 20% 25, whatever it was, I don't know what it was. They said 50, but I don't think it was 50.

But like, 25%, I'd be like, no, get fucked. Like, you're going to pay me what you contracted to pay me. You know, I didn't force Dylan Danz out of this fight. Yeah, and, you know, at that point, you know, you're two days out of fight and you're ready to go right you're you're firing on all cylinders and the the UFC does this too you know when a guy doesn't make weight and they kind of you know not not really threatened or anything but you know you should take the fight like even if the guy doesn't make weight right like it's i don't know how many times we've ever seen anybody pull out

because their opponent didn't make weight i don't know if ever um it's kind of the same situation And it's hard for a fighter to say no anyway because you're there. Like, you know, your mind's single track. You're unfocused on one thing. Just getting to the fight and being healthy and winning this fight. And your confidence is an all-time high.

You believe that you can go in there and beat anybody by time you're through a training camp. And I'm sure that's how Mike was feeling. Felt very confident, felt great about it. There's probably, again, this is why we're supposed to have advisors and managers and agents or whatever you want to call these people and that's their job is to

protect you from yourself and protect you know the writing I don't I don't have a ultimately I don't have a really don't have a huge problem with like Mike was went through a training camp and if he doesn't fight he doesn't get paid and that I understand you don't mean like you didn't get anything

so beyond let's just take it beyond the money thing like if I'm Mike Perry two days out Dylan Dan drops out you can't be that shocked, but they find your replacement on two days and notice, do you still want to fight? Yes, I want to fight. I get it. I do understand that instinct of like, I put all this time and effort and money into a training camp.

I don't want to go to waste. Great. I don't have a problem with that. I don't. The problem I have is as soon as I say we're cutting your pay, I'm like, well, I'm done, I'm walking away. Because that's just that's just, that's just like, you talk about the UFC, like the UFC wouldn't do that.

You know, like when opponents change, you're like, well, now you're not fighting Connor, so we're going to cut your paycheck by 30. You may lose that on pay-per-view points or whatever you're going to get for viewership numbers because fighting another person isn't going to produce the same kind of ratings or whatever, but that's out of your control anyways. This situation, they're basically just like you're not fighting Dylan Dennis and it's not going to be on pay-per-view, so we're going to cut your pay.

Bullshit? Like that would be like, no. Like, that's where you're talking about having an advisor being like, no, this isn't happen. You're going to pay them what you owe, what you contracted to pay him. You know, it reminds me of like when you're like pot committed, you know, when you're playing Texas hold him and you're gambling and, you know, you've been bluffing. But, you know, now you already know you lost and the river card comes up here. You're like, you know you lost, but you're already pot committed.

You're like, okay, I still, I got to gamble. I got to throw in one. I got to give it a shot now. I'm already pot committed. You know, and it's kind of the same situation. And he just, this is why you, again, why you have advisors, why you have managers. why you have managers, agents, whatever these people are called these days,

they're the ones that are supposed to, you know, pull you out of that sunken costs that you just committed to. Yeah. But then, like, I don't have a problem. Like, and listen, freak injuries happen, you know, you know, gets a, I mean, who could have predicted to do with dislocated his shoulder and, you know, gets knocked out right after that,

which I was actually surprised they let the fight go on. Like, the referee literally looked at Mike Perry's dangling arm and it was just like, are you okay? I'm like, I don't. think he is. You should probably stop this fight, but he let it go. Which, you know, knowing Mike, he's probably like, I'd fight it with one arm or no arms, but whatever. But the reality is, and here's the aftermath of this, Matt, and you know this as well as I do. We can talk all day about circumstance or the circumstance that led to that, right?

Dylan Dan's dropped out. He ended up getting an opponent. You saw Brandon Jingle, he was a lot bigger, too. Like, Brandon Jenkins is like, yeah, he was like 185 and, you know, Perry looked smaller next to him. But the reality is the way it played out was he lost. And at some, like, the Nate Diaz fight to me made sense because it's Nate Diaz. He's a massive, massive name. And he beat him. And you're like, okay, you just raised, you just gave yourself an even better stock because you beat a guy that everyone loves and he's very popular.

And you went out there and beat the brakes off for him for two rounds where the fight got stopped. If I'm Mike Pear, I understand that. But this one, he lost and kind of lost badly and got injured doing it. Like at some point, that mystique of you being the king of violence and, you know, those kind of things, like, it's going to hurt your overall brand. And, like, right, like, if I'm BKFC right now, I wouldn't book him against Dary until next. Because he didn't look, he didn't look great and he got, he got knocking. You got, you know, like it or not, he got beat. And that does affect your ability to, like, kind of sell it or, you know, get people interested in the fight.

You know, you got to win. You know, we talk about that with Connor. like Conner's always going to be a huge star, but at some point you've got to win to keep people interested. It's one loss. It doesn't ruin everything, but I'm just saying like if I'm Mike Perry, now if I'm BKFC,

I don't think you could book him against Darren Till right now. You have to be like, dude, you've got to get a win now. You got to go, because I know when I talked to David Feldman, the president of BKFC before the fight, he's like, well, we'll see how things play out with Dylan Dennis and then we'll talk and see what we're doing. To me, that was like a clear indication. They want him to win.

You know, you don't want him coming off a loss. What's his contract like with BKFC? Because they let them do these other fights. He has, I think he has a couple fights left on his deal, but it's like just like an open-ended deal. As long as he tells him he's doing it, he can do what he wants. Interesting. Yeah.

So I get it. I don't fault him for that. Like, you know, that's a good way to maintain a positive relationship with your fighter, you know, lock him into an exclusive contract or whatever. But yeah, I think Mike took a bit of an in more ways than one with this fight because not only did they lose

not only do you lose money but I think opportunity I'm not saying they all go away but if I'm if I'm being KFC like dude you got to go out and win before we can put you or you got to come back here and win before we can put you in there with Darren Till because that's such a big fight um that you know do you want do you want the last image of people seeing of you is getting your shoulder separated and kicked in the gut and knocked out you know yeah that's exactly it puts them in a tougher situation. I don't know, man. Like, again, it just comes down to these freaking managers ages of, and I don't think anybody's ever questioned Mike Perry's toughness or his willingness

to fight. And, you know, I don't know if he even has an advisor, you know. He's, I know, like when we were talking before about having girlfriends in the corner, he's that guy. Like, like, he just kind of, kind of does whatever he wants. whatever he wants and kind of, you know, walks that road his own way. So, you know, he would be well served at this point to have a good advisor or manager if he doesn't already have one. He does have a manager. He's managed by Abe, Abe and Malkyawa from first-time management.

He's been around forever. Here's what I think happened to. This is just my opinion. I don't know this for a fact. I'm not certainly not defending anybody. I think Mike Perry is just his own dude. Like, they probably told him, like, Abe or one of them probably told him, dude, don't take this.

fight. Like, they're trying to cut your pay, and now you're not even getting Dylan Danis. Now you're getting some random replacement. Like, dude, just walk away. But ultimately, the fighter's going to make the decision. You know what I mean? Mike Perry strikes me as a kind of guy's like, yeah, I'm going to fight. You know what I mean? He doesn't strike me as a guy. He's like, maybe he just doesn't take advice. I agree with you on the advisor probably. You need people around you to kind of save you from yourself. I just get the issue feeling that Mike Perry's like, cool, man. Yeah, I'm still fighting. Yeah, that does make sense, too. That's definitely a Mike Perry move.

right like I'm fighting I don't care bro yeah and look that's why we love him too and that's why he is the fucking king of violence man that's why he is who he is that's why we love the guy um you know it is just an unfortunate sort of events and I don't think it's going to end his career I think he can come back and still do great things I'm still going to want to watch him fight the next time that he fights so more power to him um I guess like in the grand scheme of things it kind of devalues him a little bit I don't know, maybe he needed the money. I don't know, but, you know, the fact is, Mike Perry's Mike Perry, and he's always,

I think for a long time, at least he's going to be a big name and we're going to want to watch him fight. So I think it's cool, man, and I think he's going to be perfectly fine. It just sucks, right? You know, it's kind of a rough weekend for him, but, you know, I think he'll be back. And whether it's MMA or BKFC or whatever he does, I think he'll be back and he's just going to have deal with his shoulder now.

know, because that's not a small injury. Like, I separated my shoulder many years ago. And, I mean, it was a good, like, six months before I was, I think I took a fight, like, six months after. And it didn't even feel good even when I fought, which would have been seven or eight months after. I think it took, like, a year for it to really be back to normal again, you know, depending on the level of separation that he has.

So that's not a fun injury to deal with. But Mike Perry's Mike Perry's. Mike Perry, we're going to see him back. And, you know, he has a good legacy, too, already, right? Like, he's beat some big names. He's put on some epic fights. He's become the face of BKFC. So, you know, it's cool, man.

It's cool. You know, I think it's cool. The shoulder injury, you mentioned that before, you got to remember, I mean, I know he knows he was trained with him, but, like, T.J. Dulleshall's entire career changed because of the shoulder injury like that. Like, I'm not saying that's going to happen to Mike Perry. I'm just saying like you can't not think about that

with people all it's a separated shoulder it's not just a separated shoulder like when you separate your shoulder you tear muscle you tear tendons it can be you know what I mean so hopefully it's not severe and he can just come back in like six months but you got really I always remember that T.J. Dillishall's

entire career change from a separated shoulder he's never been the same and he basically retired because his shoulders were so fucked up so I'm certainly not I'm obviously not hoping that for Mike Perry I hope he's going to be perfectly fine and come back from this and it's not that serious. But for people, all I just separate your shoulder,

popping back in, it ain't that easy. I promise you. No, no. These, yeah, it's a lot more than that. I've dealt with it myself. There's way more to it than that. And a lot of,

the shoulder is one of those joints that has so many moving parts. You know, it's not a hinge joint, right? It's a ball joint. So there's so many moving parts. It's a complete mess, man. It's a, it's a tough one to deal with. But look, Mike Perry's a fucking stud, man.

I think he'll be back. and I think it would be exciting to watch them next time too. And I think we'll all watch, right? Absolutely. Real quick, I got to bring this up, Matt, because we talked about him leading up to the fight. We were talking about how Dylan Dennis is more of a professional troll now than he is like a professional fighter.

If I'm a promoter or if you're a promoter, and maybe you will be one day, Matt. You can start some fights here in Ohio. If you're a promoter, would you have any reason to ever work with Dylan Dennis after this whole debacle, like two days out from the fight, you just don't show up. And, you know, your posted photos said you've got to cut on your arm or whatever.

I don't know that I buy it, but it is what it is. But this isn't the first time of Dylan. He had those boxing matches set up with the KSI or whatever and canceled both times. I understand the concerts of getting injured. People get injured. We get that. But it's not like Dylan Dennis is like this, you know, 14-time UFC veteran and he's just, you know, going through a bad stretch.

He's a guy who's got a two-and-a-record. And, you know, his biggest claim, to fame is, you know, trolling to be in his team and then getting sued by Logan Paul's fiance. Do we just have to like, it's almost to the point where you just have to ignore this guy now because like this was like, if he would have gone out there and at least fought,

if he lost, I think he would have gained a lot of respect because it's Mike Prick and Perry. That's a tough fight. And you can absolutely get your head knocked off. But now the same thing happened again. He didn't show up. Like, I just don't know how you could ever trust this guy. I don't know why anybody, anybody ever dealt with Dylan Danes to begin with.

I mean, I think he was a funny guy on the internet. I mean, I think that's about all it comes down to, right? Like, you know, but that's the world we live in nowadays. Like, we live in the world of attention now. Dylan Danes gets attention, so people want to book him because he's going to bring attention. And that's just all there is to it. I mean, he doesn't. His fighting skills is not what people are going to watch.

And so, you know, I don't know, man. Like, like, I don't know why anybody would have booked him to begin with. I don't know what the, I mean, I guess, okay, I tell you back, because we know why they booked Dylan Dennis, right? Because they wanted the attention. And I just think it's, you know, you're just gambling, right? You're gambling one that people even really want to watch it, right? it's going to bring you some attention, but do people actually want to watch it?

You know, who really cares? But then you're gambling that he's going to show up and, you know, who knows what kind of crazy shit is going to do. So, yeah, if I'm a promoter,

which may happen, we'll see. But if I'm a promoter, I don't book Dylan Dennis. It's not worth the ROI, in my opinion. Yeah, you're not getting any ROI on that.

that you can even if you do get some attention like now you're not known as a legitimate fighting organization right you're just a you're more of a freak show now right you people know why you're bringing in Dillon Danez like just to get attention on it and you know is anybody going to watch Duel Arena next time because you know if Dill and Danes fought last weekend like is anybody watching Duel Arena and then you know for the next show because they had Dillon Daneus on the last show I don't think so Yeah, I mean, if you want to hire him to do like commentary or, you know, be the trolling. That's probably a better gig for him, honestly.

For Dylan Dennis, like, doing something like commentary or, I don't, like, he could be like the Nina drama of Dool Arena or something. Yeah, like, that's probably a better gig for him, realistically. Yeah, that I understand. Like, how could you trust the guy to put, like, after this? Like, I mean, he's already done a couple times before, but, like, how can you invest your money and, and, and, guarantees that this guy's going to show up and actually put on a show. And also, the other reality is we don't know, like, if, like, we know, Dylan Danes had legit Brazilian jiu-suit credentials.

And he had legit grappling credentials. That's absolutely real. But I don't know what the guy can actually throw a punch. Like, you know what I mean? This isn't like a guy who's seen, you know, fight a bunch of times. We're like, okay, we know, we kind of know what we're going to get. I have no idea we're going to get from Dylan Dennis if he actually fought. When he fought, Logan Paul in boxing, it was ugly.

It was an ugly, ugly, ugly fight did not look good at all. But that's boxing and I understand. But I just don't know how you can have any faith in this guy at this point. Like, there's no universal rule that all the promoters are going to get together and say, you know, fuck this guy. We're not going to book him again. But, like, I don't care who you are. Like, you know, like, because Dana is, you know, Dana repeatedly shut down, like, even

remotely thinking about putting Dylan Danes in the UFC, much less like the Condender Series or whatever. Yeah. Because, like, A, maybe he didn't even show up and B. We don't even know how good he is. We have no proof. We have no proof of this guy's even moderately. decent. You know what I think it would have been cool to get Dylan on the

contender series and put him with a real fighter and see if he could do anything. But, you know, I mean, I guess he could throw a punch, right? We've seen him throw punches. Just can he land a punch? I don't know. Maybe not. I like, it almost like,

you know, this is funny. Like, at this point, Dylan Danes to me is like, see him punk. You know, like he loves that, he wants to fight, talks a good game. He gets in there, we're like, oh my God. like this is bad. Like, this is really, really bad.

That's kind of how I feel about Dylan Dennis. It's like, you know, like, he wants to, he claims he wants to fight. And he keeps getting set up against big names, but, you know, he has zero proof that he's actually done it or he's going to do it. So I guess CM Punk's got one up on Dylan Danes for that, I suppose. Yeah, CM Punk actually fought in the UFC. So he's got one up on Dylan Dennis there. Yeah. But, like, Dylan, I mean, it's, it kind of.

of sucks because he actually he probably does have some talent right I mean he obviously like he's a good grappler he came from Marcello school originally and did some good things in grappling like he probably actually had some potential to do some things and the guys kind of just thrown it away just being an internet troll and and I guess that's kind of just the world we live in you know throwing that all the way just to get attention to I don't know maybe he maybe makes money online or something doing something but you know, he's kind of sacrificing his reputation. He's sacrificing his integrity and his warrior spirit.

Like all those things are being sacrificed just to be a fucking internet troll. And, you know, that's not the type of person I would ever want my promotion. I can tell you that much. Yeah, 100%. Matt, this weekend, UFC goes to Paris. We got, I love the main event. Dan Hooker against Saladin Parnas. Obviously, Parnas got a lot of hype around him, big prospect.

I'm not going to make you break down the first. fight or anything, but, you know, pretty, and undercard's not great, but Dan Hooker always puts on the show, win-lose-drawl, and I'm actually very curious to see, you know, can Parnos adapt to the spotlight of the UFC? It's a whole different animal being in the UFC. Yeah, absolutely. I think Parnoss will. I think the dude's got a lot of talent, and I think he's got a good head on his shoulders. I think Parano's going to do some big things in the UFC. Whether he's champion or not, who knows, right? That's a whole other animal, right? There's the one animal of actually getting in the UFC and fighting in there under the lights.

there's another animal of, you know, being a contender, and then there's a whole other animal of actually being the champion, and then you got the animal of being, you know, have some tenure, and then, you know, being a tenured champion. I mean, there's levels to this shit, right? And I think he's at a good level to make a splash in the UFC, and we'll see if he's at a level to do more than that, but he's certainly at a level to make a splash,

and I think he's got a good enough head on his shoulders. He's going to bring some fun to the UFC, some fun to the division. Yeah, he's a nasty striker. He was a two-division champion KSW. But yeah, I think it's going to be fun. And, you know, obviously, he's from France. So you know the crowd's going to go nuts. I always like those hometown fights when the crowds are just absolutely erupting.

I've seen enough cards in Paris to know the Paris crowd is insane. They love it. So that should be fun. But, yeah, so that's this weekend. Daytime card, another all-time favorite of Matt Brown when it's in the daytime to not stay up late. But yeah, so not a bad card, not a great car, but not a bad card. You know, MVP's fighting and Michael Van Page's fighting, a couple other guys.

So not a bad card. But I am very curious about that main event because, like I said, you've seen some guys adapt and kill it. You've seen other guys just freeze like a deer in the headlines. And especially to be putting a main event slide on your first fight. Because that's a whole other animal in itself too, right? The main event where, you know, all the press all week is about you. You know, you know, it's more press than he. ever dealt with in his life that's for sure um and then the i don't know for me when i main

evented just the fact that like you have to stay up so fucking late like you're waiting all day to fight like you're like what do i eat like you know i mean and all these things i perform better in main event i kind of like the main event thing but i could see where it could throw some people off like they always fighters always say the worst part about fighting is waiting you know sitting around the locker room or or sit around your hotel room sitting in the locker room you know sitting in the tunnel waiting Like it's just like a constant wait, wait, wait, wait. When your main event, you're waiting a long fucking time. It feels like years back there.

Yeah, I remember, I mean, I remember, you know, in Cincinnati when you fought Eric Silva, you know, the pacing. And like by the time you walk out, I care, it was late because I remember the president started to. Yeah, the president started talking about 1 a.m. I'm like, geez, guys, we're going to move in here. Come on. Yeah, it was after midnight when I fought. And I remember because that was my first main event. and it was just all day just my god how am i going to make it to fucking midnight you know what i mean

like like like it's like three o'clock and taking a little nap i'm like bro like how am i going to stay up to fucking midnight to do this shit but but you know again uh some people embrace that and some people perform under that pressure well some people it breaks them yeah well and like i said you know we'll see i i think it's weird like as and i love you know i love dan hooker he's a super good dude. I always like interviewing him. But honestly, for Parnas, like, you have to feel like the biggest obstacle is going to be like,

how's he going to handle the pressure? You know what I mean? Like, he's not just debuting in front of a home crowd. He's main eventing a debut in front of his home crowd. That's a lot of pressure. Some guys adapt to it and look great. Other guys crumble. I'm very curious how he's going to,

I think he's going to be okay, but you don't know until you do it. You know what I mean? Like, there's plenty of guys. Oh, he's going to be fine. And he comes out there and shits to bed. You never know. Yeah, I mean, I didn't think about the fact

It's also in his hometown, right? So that's yeah You're just adding even more pressure in that And it's not like he's got an easy fight in front of him either So even if he performs great I mean, you know, he doesn't have easy task in front of him Yeah, and it'd be different if he was the co-main And the main was like Cyril Gaon, another huge French star

It's him, it's all on him, man That's all the pressures on him this time So it's going to be interesting So yeah, that's this weekend Then we go to Nocha UFC, the following weekend, obviously, Conner Ben, fighting Ryan Garcia. I'm curious your thoughts on that fight when we get there.

Not yet, but when we get there. And then obviously we roll into LA for UFC 331. We got Joshua Van and Pantosha and, of course, Armin Sarukin and Marisa Rufi. So we'll talk about that later. Matt, if people want to check out what you got going outside the podcast, where can they go? What can they do?

At I Am the Immortal Instagram and Twitter, The Immortal My Brow on Facebook, and The Immortal Podcast.com. Love it. And as always, I want to say a big thank you to everyone to tunes in the show. Make sure you visit us on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and of course over on the best website in the world, mhmafiting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin.

We will see you guys next week for another edition of the Fighter versus the Rider. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.