Modern Wisdom - Ex-Gang Member: What Makes A Violent Man Change? - Johnny Chang - #1140

Episode Date: August 22, 2026

Johnny Chang is a former gang member and inmate turned Christian pastor, speaker, and podcaster. What happens when a boy enters prison at 12 and doesn’t emerge until 25? That was Johnny Chang’s reality. Raised amid violence and gangs, he eventually found God. But does a violent past define a man forever, or can he choose to become someone better? Expect to learn how Johnny was brought into gang life when he was 12 years old, why Juvie is more violent but less lethal than prison, what life is like in prison and what it takes to survive, the hardest things to unlearn after prison, how Johnny found god and started preaching the gospel, what twelve-year-old Johnny would think if he could see himself now and much more… Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/deals⁠ Get 160+ lab tests for just $365 and save an extra $25 at https://functionhealth.com/modernwisdom Get a Free Sample Pack of LMNT’s most popular flavours with your first purchase at https://drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom Get 35% off your first subscription on the best supplements from Momentous at https://livemomentous.com/modernwisdom Get 15% off your first order of my favourite Non-Alcoholic Brew at https://athleticbrewing.com/modernwisdom Get ChatGPT to explore ideas, solve problems, and learn faster at ⁠https://chatgpt.com Timestamps: (00:00) How Johnny Got Pulled Into Gang Life (08:44) Surviving California’s Youth Prison System (16:08) How Prison Politics Reshapes Gang Mentality (20:43) The Hidden Status Hierarchy Inside Prison (22:54) Why Prison Violence Is So Manipulative (29:26) Johnny’s Most Dangerous Moment Behind Bars (33:57) The Prison Habits That Are Hardest to Unlearn (39:04) Why Life After Prison Is So Difficult to Rebuild (43:01) Why Johnny Feared Life Outside Prison (57:04) How Johnny Found Purpose Through Christianity (01:11:41) The Courage of Forgiveness (01:16:26) Why Finding Peace Can Feel Like a Battle (01:21:19) How Do We Distinguish God’s Voice From Our Own? (01:25:04) Is Turning to Religion a Sign of Weakness? (01:27:25) Why Are Vulnerable Conversations So Hard? (01:29:59) Is Forgiveness Actually Selfish? (01:41:51) Why Returning to Prison Terrified Johnny (01:52:51) What Would Johnny’s 12-Year-Old Self Think Now? (01:59:01) Where to Find Johnny Extra Stuff: Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/books⁠ Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: ⁠https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom⁠ Episodes You Might Enjoy: #577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life: ⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Goggins⁠ #712 - Dr Jordan Peterson - How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs: ⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Peterson⁠ #700 - Dr Andrew Huberman - The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain: ⁠lnkfi.re/SN-Huberman⁠ - Get In Touch: Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx⁠ Twitter: ⁠https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast⁠ Email: ⁠https://chriswillx.com/contact⁠ - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tell me about your history. How did you get to where you are today? Yeah, so I grew up in the San Gabriel Valley, east side of L.A., some project housing. And I grew up kind of not the stereotypical Asian. Like I didn't like anime and I didn't like mathematics. I liked guns and gangbanging, basically. And it's prior to that is because my parents were immigrant parents. They did not fend very well. Obviously landed in poverty.

They came with American Dream. in mind, realizing that it's not as simple as other people were portraying it, like our family back home. So yeah, we landed in the projects. They didn't understand gang violence, gang culture. They just thought, oh, this place is cheap. The government helps us. Why not? Land there. And he was a chef by trade, but he tries to, you know, do everything that a man can do, right? Provide for his family. He starts to develop this addiction, which is, to alcohol. He's drinking soju all the time. Um, and then he starts like beating my mom, beating me, beat my brother. Basically, he, he had a lot of, uh, I remember it like kind of like a

victimized mindset where he's like, I came to this place. I tried my best and now like everybody's out to get me. Like he broke all of his friendships with his friends. I remember, um, he would just blame everybody, blame everybody. Was the alcoholism a response to him feeling like things? was slipping through his fingers. Yeah, yeah, it was. And then he would talk about certain things in the past that I didn't, I was too young, but I remember he would say certain things. Like, I never meant to do that. He would keep saying these types of things. And I'm like, okay, whatever, you know, your kid, you don't understand. And then he ends up, you know, just kind of full-fledged, like, you know, broke my mom's ribs, you know. He's, like, beat my brother really bad before he's beat me really,

really, really bad. And so I kind of get to this position where I'm like, all right, I'm like eight years old. I can't really like, you know, depend on my dad because I know he's going to go kind of crazy. So I try to just hang out in the streets. And I think at eight years old was when I started to fight more. I got suspended when I was 10 years old. And I just started to kind of hang around that. And a lot of people don't know, but in L.A. around like the 90s was gang culture. It was just crazy. That was when Snoop Dog and, you know, Tupac and this. gangster rap was hitting the scene. And so it literally came like a wave as well as crack cocaine, meth going through rampant through the neighborhood. And so, you know, we started to kind of

see a shift in the, in the area where people were just being more crazier, right? So, you know, the one event that made me kind of solidify that I couldn't trust my dad and my mom either is at 10 years old, I remember walking from high hole market, which is market near, near my, my area in the hood. And these kids pull up on me in a car and they beat me. There's four kids beat the dog crap out of me. And, you know, I get jumped for the first time. And they take my backpack.

They take my shoes. So I end up, you know, walking home barefoot, bloody nose, whatever, ripped shirt. And, you know, my dad, he asks me. And he goes, where is your clothes? Where's your stuff? Like, what happened? Are you fighting again? And I was like, yes, but I got.

jumped. And for him, he couldn't understand why kids would do this to kids. Like, I'm 10 years old. Why would anyone just come and beat us up? Well, my dad didn't know at the time was that there was a war between the Asians and the Mexicans. So it was just solely, they were just praying on us, you know, unfortunately. Even though you weren't a part of it. Yeah. Even if you were a part of it. Yes, exactly. So in a lot of kids during that time, through the green light era, is what we call it, is they were getting beat up. And so, um, and that's because two gangs were, you know, going at each other. But, um, you know, my dad's like, I remember him saying vividly, when are you going to stop lying? And then he's like, today's the day you're going to stop lying. And I'm going to beat it out of you.

So I got jumped. And then when I, you know, went home, my dad basically beat me. Uh, and then during that time, I just remember it was a different thing. Like, I was used to the beatings. But I think at that time, I understood like, I can't say anything to my dad anymore. He's just not there. My mom obviously would kind of help him beat on me because how he saw it was like, if you're not helping me hit the kid, then like you're not supporting me, right? And so she would actually do the same, unfortunately, me and my brother. And so, um, you know, I was like, okay, I can't trust them. I started staying out more. I just had this internalized rage. Like, I would fight and it was no longer like fun to fight anymore. It was more like survival. I was

trying to like kill the person. And it just, it just took it. At 10 years old. Yeah. And then two years into it, I'm fighting. I'm getting suspended. My dad's beating me up. And I almost took it as like, all right, you're going to beat me up. Like, whatever. It's just part of it. I get out. Go to the, go to the, you know, stores. I go to like wherever I go, I'm literally just being mischievous. I'm stealing, carrying a knife to school, all this stuff. At 12 years old, you start to kind of see the shift in my life where the, the, you know, the. gangs are noticing because when they what they do is they kind of prey on on the kids they look at them and they go okay this guy's getting in trouble you know he's fighting more and they they were basically trying to like recruit me well they're not going to try and recruit the kid that stays at home goes to bed at 8 o'clock of course his books yeah yeah so um at that time i remember the first encounter was they banged on me which means like you they basically test you right they know you're not from anywhere but they want to see so i remember they pulled out guns on me and they

were just like, where are you from? Which means, you know, what gang? And I froze, obviously. And I was like, I didn't say anything. And then they're like, you ain't from anywhere? And I'm like, nah, do you gang bang? I'm like, no, I don't gang bang. And then they're like, you want to kick it, which means let's hang out, you know?

And of course, I was just like, they were, I think it was for the homies. So I remember, I think he was, it was 16, 15, 15, and 14. So there was just kids as well, right? And so, yeah, they were like, let's hang out. I remember getting into the white Honda Civic in the back, and they started introducing. They called me this guy and this guy and this guy and told me their names. And I was like, cool. They're like, let's go hang out.

I remember they took me out to eat. And then the older dude, he was 16, brought me to his uncle. And his uncle was one of the shock callers, meaning like the OGs. And he's like, he was like the nicest guy. I remember. I was like, this guy's tatted up. He's done prison time. He's big built.

A man's man. And but he's like, what's up, man? like super soft, super respectful. And he's like, you know what? Like, are you hungry? And they're like, no, we took him to eat. He's like, okay, cool. And he pulls out a wad of cash and he pulls out $100 and he gives it to me.

And then he goes, bro, like, I hope you understand that like when you're with us, your family. And I remember him saying that to me. And I was like, whoa, this guy's awesome. He's respectful. He's had a pistol on his hip. Like everyone respects this dude. And I think at that moment, I kind of fell in love with it.

Right. And he's like, he was like, very. Very gentle. Very respectful, very gentle. And I just, of course, I'm, you know, 12 years old. And I'm like thinking, this guy's cool, you know. And I remember in the car ride back when they're dropping me off. I'm like, man, the big homie, he's so cool, he's so cool. He's kept saying this, you know?

They're like, yeah, he's amazing. But obviously it was just kind of like coercing me into it. In retrospect, do you see that as predatory and coercive or caring when there's a kid who doesn't have a father? that's looking after him. Well, I mean, he rest his soul, but he was known for doing that. And so he brought a lot of the homies into the hood and he would use them. Because at the end, that same dude asked me to do a mission, which is do something for me. And he said it.

He was like, hey, bro, like, you know, these people are my enemies. And, you know, if you're my homie, they're your enemies. And he started to lace me down as to what gang culture was. And again, I'm like, I don't know who these guys are, but they're just the opposition. So because I love you and you're my homie, like, I'll do it for you, you know. And so through that, that's where I caught my first case. It was this guy, he was like, this guy thinks he's all that, you know, he's a well-known drug dealer in our neighborhood. And he's like, he's stepping on our toes and he's trying to do this. So we got to go and take them,

kidnap them, basically, and then steal all of his stuff, you know, and if we have to beat him up or kill him, it is what it is. So I remember that was the first mission that I did. Unfortunately, that was the first time I got caught too. And so we all got caught. It was six of us. At that time, it was the first time I learned about RICO. So RICO Act is when, you know, the government, they used it to take down like the Sicilian mob and the Italian mafia, right? In America, it's basically like Homeland Security, FBI, CIA. They worked together to take down these gangs. We were getting RICOed. And I didn't know that. I'm 12 years old. And so when I get caught, all my friends are telling me, yo, you're going to do like a few months.

months you're a kid like it's not going to be that big of a deal you didn't smoke nobody didn't kill nobody you didn't do anything right but then they hit me with kidnapping and robbery and i'm like whoa and then it carried a pretty hefty sentence and that's the first time i heard ya which is california youth authority and then my friends were like oh shoot you're going to y a and then they were all shocked because it was my first offense i shouldn't have been going to y i why is like where you know kids kill their parents and like burn the house down it's like the worst you're of the worst, serial killers, kid child serial killers would be in there. Um, just crazy stuff.

And so they had me going there solely because of the Rico act. So they were like this guy, I remember hearing like he's a child assassin, you know, they're training him to be this and this and this gang. And they, they would line up, uh, cases of my friends who are already indicted and doing prison time and they were all in there for murder. So they're like, these are his friends. This is the path that this kid is on. We need to get out ahead of it.

Yes, exactly. Guilt by association. Yeah. And then so they basically were like. yeah, it makes sense. They're like, look at him. He's like young looking, but he doesn't listen. He has a good childhood.

They're just like throwing this out there. Killer and Whiting. Yeah. And I'm like, what the heck is going on? And then I hear four years. They're like, okay, you're going to get four years for this. You're going to plea out basically. And I took basically a dissuading a witness for the benefit of a gang.

It was a lesser charge. And then they said, you're going to have to do 50% of that half time. And, you know, and the judge was just like, I hope you can learn your lesson, you know, because where you're going, he's like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of, it's very rough. So I ended up going to SRCC, which is Southern Reception, which is California Youth Authority. From there, you fight. Right off, we get off the bus. People are just like, you know, testing me. That's what they ask. Where are you from? And I'm just like, oh, from watching. And they're like, what? And then they just crack me, boom. And I'm like, what's going?

And I don't even know where this guy's from. We're fighting. And then it comes back like, Two minutes later, the guy's like, hey, you fought my friend. Like, I'm his homie. You got to fight me. So it's called lining it up. So I remember the first night that I was. That's the first time. First night.

Yeah, yeah. First day. And I'm like, oh, so it's called a roundflah, which means a car in Spanish. And basically what it is is if you fight this one guy, you have to fight all of his friends, too. And I didn't know that. And so I'm in there. And I think I fought like six to eight people the first night. And I'm just like, they were between.

also like 12, 13. I think the oldest one I fought was 16. He beat me up bad, obviously. 12 and 16 year old. No match, you know. And then, yeah, you do that. And then the second day, I fought four people. And then after that, it was like, okay, he has respect.

He's going to fight. But then I saw people who wouldn't fight. And unfortunately, they would get taken advantage of, whether it's people would steal from them or I would witness people like being them as well. Right. So, you know, you grow up in that environment. And I'm thinking, okay, I just got to get through this for like two years, right? And I remember saying that to one of the older homies who was in there.

He was like, he had the keys, meaning like he controlled like the little click that we had in there, like the Asians. And he goes, bro, and remember this vividly. He goes, forget about your life. Like once you get here, like, it's over for you. You're either going to catch a murder or you're going to like catch more time because YA, it does something to you. I remember him saying that. And it's true because I would say. see the COs correction officers doing like wicked things.

They would pit us against each other and call it gladiator school where we're fighting each other. And they would bet on us, you know, it's just, it was bad. How did it change you? I remember it just made me more like if I just had the thought that someone was disrespecting me, they didn't even have to. If I just felt it or anyone felt it, you take off. So it was very violent.

And again, within those four years, I think I fought like four. 40 plus people, right? And it's just like, did you say something? What? And then you crack them. It's just, there is no talking in there. It's all gang banging. And then new people would come in, which we call fish. They'll come in and we'll do the same thing. Hey, where are you from? Oh, you're an enemy. We won't say anything. Crack them. Boom. We start fighting. And so it made me deal with like violence as like a universal language, right? It's like, you don't have to talk. You don't need, just beat them up. And then everyone's going to praise you. And then it felt like I felt like I felt like I felt like I felt like I felt. fit in, right? I'm like, oh, wow, I can beat this guy up and people are like, wow, that's Johnny. He did this. He did that. And so I felt a sense of, as weird as it is, pride to be able to do something like that. And so get out of prison, you know, California Youth Authority. And I remember trying to just, you know, they parole me back to my mom's place. My dad at this time hasn't really visited me or anything. He's just, you know, like still being drunk and doing his own thing. My mom starts to to take Buddhism way more serious.

Like she was serious about Buddhism, but she was like, when I came, she was like zened out, right? Like, oh, there's karma and put your shoes here and there's there's a feng shui. And you know, and I'm like, okay. And I last 67 days, two months in a week. And I end up doing a freeway shooting. And this time I'm 16 going on 17. And they basically bring up all my past again. They try me.

Is it the same gang, the same group? Same neighborhood. Yeah. So when you're in a gang, you're most of the time you're in it for life, right? So it's just how it is. And so same gang, I end up doing a shooting. But this time it wasn't them telling me. This was transparently just me looking, having the YA mentality, which is this car was driving on the 60 freeway.

And I remember they were just stacking, which is like throwing up gang signs, it's Mexicans. And at that time, we were, again, at war with these people. So I remember seeing them and then they were like looking at me. It was two guys in the car and I had the gun on me. And I was just like kind of stacking back at them. And then I was like, man, F this. And I just started shooting at them. And then I went on the run.

Obviously, like, it was my dad's car that I took for a joy ride. So the warrant came back to the address and, you know, they basically... Do you think those guys in the car rang you in? I don't think so. How did the police find out that it was you? I mean, it was on a freeway. So I'm pretty sure. Someone else saw it.

Yeah. It's like, it's like in front of everything. So you were moving. Yeah. I was shooting at a moving vehicle. So they charged me with attempted murder, obviously, shooting at an inhabited vehicle, shooting in a public space. Yeah.

There's all the cars behind. Yeah. All this stuff. And I'm just like, holy moly. And then I was looking at 19 to life for one charge and then 25 for the other. It was just stacked up against me. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, okay.

So now I'm fearful because obviously, like, I've done YA, but I've heard. stuff about prison. Prison is like the big boys. And I thought I would just go back to YA. Maybe I can handle the stretch. Is your 16 still? 16. Yeah. Going on 17. And they're like, no, we're going to try you as an adult. Again, the first time I ever heard that. I'm like, I'm not an adult though, but they're like, we're going to try you. And during that time and that era, that means got to be, I guess. Well, yeah, it started to become, right? Because it was just like, yeah, these guys are wild. So they know what they're doing. It doesn't matter if their frontal loaves developed or whatever. It's just what it is. Right. And so, yeah, I get tried and I get sentenced and I get

points and they're like you go to level four, which is maximum security. I'm a kid, kid, right? And it takes like a few months, obviously. And when I hit prison, I'm 17. I plea out for basically two counts of assault with deadly weapon. They give me 10 years. I have to do 85% of that. So I just did four, got out. Now I'm doing. 10 basically minimum eight years depending on my behavior i might do the full i might catch another case and get washed and do life i mean it's just we don't know yeah and then i get up in there and um i get laced down it's completely different the first day i get in there i'm like oh that guy he's from this gang which is a rival gang of ours all right i'm going to take off on them and the guy who

was leading me through the prison was like that's a no-no and i'm like what i'm a y-a baby and he goes you guys need to calm your ass down. That's literally what he said. He goes, in prison, it's race. California specifically, it's race against other races. All that gang stuff gets dropped. Like, yes, you're in your hood and you represent, but you don't fight each other. I'm like, but he shot my cousin. Like, it doesn't matter. It's like that that's all, this is the politics. And that's the first time I learned what politicking is. In prison, it's like, no, even though you're your enemy, you have to back them up. And again, it shook my world upside down, right? I'm like, It was, I was cool with my gang being against everybody.

That's cool. I like that. But now I got to be cool with these guys and I got to. So for the first two years, I didn't program well. Went to the shoe a lot, the whole. It's program well-meaning means, it means like going with the program, meaning like you have to stick with the rules and regulations. I wasn't really good at that.

I was still fighting my cellmates and which is you can't do the stuff like that. I would get disciplined. They call it DP discipline where if you do something to your cellmate or you act out of character, these guys will beat you up. And so I was getting beat up a lot because I was just a knucklehead. And so... And this is the training,

the rhythm of life that you learned in YA now being ported across into prison. Yeah. And they knew. They were like, you're a YA baby, aren't you? And I'm like, yeah, and they're like, you have to calm down.

You will die in here. And I think, you know... It seems like it's less violent but more lethal in prison. Yes, yes, yes. That's a good way to put it. It was definitely less violent, but more lethal.

And when it was violent, it was race against race. So there is no friendlies, as we call it, meaning one-on-ones. It's like, hey, if you disrespect me, the whole race goes to war. So I would see riots, right? One guy did something, hey, you stepped into my out of bounds. You went to my area and then they'll disrespect. And then everybody goes to war, blacks, Mexicans, whites, whatever, all together.

So, yeah, it was crazy. But because of that, there was also this mutual level of respect where it's like, okay, you're dangerous and we're dangerous. Like, let's just... We can't play with this. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me if this sounds familiar. You train regularly, you eat reasonably well. You feel fine, but you're just kind of going off vibes. Most people have absolutely no idea what's going on inside their body, and that is why I partnered with function. Function gives you access to more than 160 advanced lab tests, spanning hormones, heart health, kidney function, and even detects early signals linked to more than 50 types of cancer. To put that in perspective, your typical annual physical might test 20 markers.

function runs over 160. It's huge. Best of all, you test twice a year and everything lives inside of a simple dashboard. So you track trends over time, make sure you're moving in the right direction. And this level of testing would usually cost thousands, but with function, it is $365 per year, just $1 a day to actually know what's happening inside of your body. And right now you can get $25 off, bringing it down to $340. Get the exact same blood panels that I use and save $25 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com slash modern wisdom. That's function dot com slash bottom wisdom what's the real status hierarchy inside of prison um i mean it depends right like general population is where you go there and you don't have a jacket now a jacket is any charge

that's very bad like rape for example uh molestation charges snitching um dropouts meaning turning away those are like the bottom of the bottom GP is top of the bottom meaning like gang members you know, extortionists, loan, whatever, they can be at the top only because they're solid and tent toes, as we say. But if, yeah, if you're doing things like crimes against women, you're seen as like the bottom of the barrel and you can't even be in general population because they'll roll you off the yard, which means if they find out and they check your paperwork,

which the first couple months you have to walk around with, it's like a manila folder. It's a C file, criminal file. You carry it on the yard. This is, again, only California, usually. They have a different system. Like carrying home walk around. Yeah.

And then people who have the keys or representatives like Mac reps, block reps, they'll open it and be like, okay, he's good to stay. If you're no good, which means you have that jacket, you get rolled off. But nine times out of 10, the correction officers know they're not going to let some random dude come into general population because it's like sharks. You have like a guppy and a shark tank, right? So they'll put you in S&Y, special needs and sensitive or PC protect. custody. But yeah, I was in general population. They call it main line. So on the main line, there's different politics. And then PC, I don't know, I've never been, but they have their own politics too. But basically, yeah, if you're a snitch, if you're no good, if you've defected from

the gang, if you, you know, do crimes against women or children, you are definitely not going to be with the general. Do you know the word nonce? Do you know what that is? Nons. Okay. So it's a like a British slang word for a pedophile, but it's an acronym and it stands for not on normal courtyard exercise. Okay. So that's not too dissimilar to this. Not a normal courtyard exercise. Yes.

So they're kept off to one side. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What behavior or behaviors make someone look weak inside? In prison? Yeah. So two things. If you back down from anything. So when they ask you to raise your hand, meaning to volunteer for a stabbing,

because somebody was in there in general population but turned snitch or ran up a drug debt and then they do something crazy and they don't pay it back. You have to kind of take care of these people. It's called cleaning house, right? If they don't do it, then you're looked down upon. The second thing is if you don't program correctly, which is that's part of it. But in the point where if you're sitting there and you know, you're not working out, you're lazy, you're You're not running the program with people. You're not militant. You're not a man.

You're not backing yourself up. You're not keeping your word looked down upon. And again, people get rolled off the yard for that. The last thing is also religion. If you go in there and you turn Christian, big, no, no. A lot of people treat you as, I mean, they won't treat you like a snitch, but you're like just a little bit up. You're like mid tier. Why?

Because it's seen as weak. you know, in prison, you don't have mental health illness, like awareness. They see mental health illnesses as weakness. So in prison, it's all about bravado, right? Hey, I don't cry at night. I'm a gangster. And so they basically, you know, if you're like, hey, I'm Christian now, now you can't program. Because if you're a true Christian, you can't enact violence on people, right?

So you can't sin, as they say. And so, yeah, I would see that. I would see people get rolled off. because they're like, I don't want to be part of the program. I would see other people. And I would look down on them, you know, transparently. When they would be, I would see, because, you know, in there for a long time, you see people's kind of lives change.

They'll go from the most craziest people and then become Christian and be turned down, as we say. They're just not like that anymore. And they'll do things where they'll cop and unlock. They'll get an unlock to go to church to avoid riot days. And like, it's like, oh, I'm in church though, you know? So we would really look down on them and be like, You guys are just women. How quickly does morality change when weakness gets punished?

It's very fast. It's swift, right? People go from, I mean, I'll share this story. It's pretty wild. But I remember a dude, he was very respected. He ended up having some allegations brought to him of like stealing. And again, in prison, stealing is also like a no-no. You're stealing from the poor.

Like everyone's struggling. Why would you steal? So they were saying, he was stealing and no one really believed it at first. But then another guy was also very solid was like he is. He stole my stuff. And sure enough, the proof was there. So he didn't, the guy didn't know that the proof was like they gave the evidence, right?

And so I remember kind of walking past the dude. And then my friend was like, hey, watch what's going to happen. And I'm like, okay. And so that everyone's shaking his hand. And this other kid, you know, he's young. He just goes up to the guy. And then he goes up to him with another older cat who's like kind of like a like a dude who just puts in work. He's like a grunt, right?

And he's like, hey, bro, like big homie. Like he was a really buff guy, you know. The physique back then is like everyone's really ripped because they're working out. He's like, I bet you can't do a hundred burpees right now. And the guy's like, what do you tell him? I'll do it right. You're challenging me. All right.

And he starts doing him. Boom. Boom. He's hitting the burpees. And he's getting gassed because it's a lot. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I bet you can't do more. And he's like trying it, right? And then he gets up and he takes a breath.

And then the guy stabs him, boom, and hits him in the chest. And that's the first time I've seen someone leak out. So what he was doing was he was getting his heart rate up to like make sure he would bleed him out quicker. Yeah. So you'll see things like this where it's like you and him were just friends. You're literally, it looks like it's a friendly game. Yeah. But it's all manipulation.

So he is. 100%. And so. when you see stuff like that, it made me go, I'm not trusting anybody. You're not telling me to do this and do that. You're going to do something to me. Right. And so morale, yeah, it goes like this where you're one minute they're fighting on the yard with you and they're stabbing people for you. And then the next minute they're turning it on you. And so it bred this mindset of you cannot trust anybody. Massive distrust. Doesn't matter. Yeah. Doesn't matter who it is. You cannot trust anybody. Yeah. That's a massive difference. I think maybe a misconception. that civilians probably have about prison violence, just how manipulative and insidious it can be.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's very, it's, again, like, story, there's hundreds of stories like that, where people are just thinking of ways to prey on you. And it really is in prison, predator, and pray, unfortunately, right? You're either, from a era where you either catch a body or you be a body. That's how prison is. It's like, you either kill somebody or you don't, you know. And if you program, you can hide behind the car a little bit. That's just normal. But there are times where you're, you're, you're number gets called. It's just how it is. It's not, you know, every single prison. It's a little bit different, but I can only speak for like four yards in California. How many, how many, uh, places were you in? I've been to, so you go to county jail first, YA, but prisons alone, I've been to like

four separate prisons. Yeah. So I've been to, that one stretch. Yes. Right. Yeah. So level four and then what happens is your points drop. It's a point system. The more you're like, uh, good and good behavior, your points will naturally just drop and then you go to level three. So, um, paroleing at a level three. Um, but basically, yeah, when your points are really high, you're basically like, if you do murder, extremely high and you're going to go with level four, which is maximum security. Um, it's just the top of the top. And so I'm talking about level four is intense like this. Level three is not as bad. Less riots. Um, definitely some fighting. There is riots. It's crazy too, but not where it's all weapons. Right.

Level four is only stabbing. There is no, like, hey, let's fight. It's like, no, we're going to stab you. So that story I told you happened on a level four, right? So, yeah. How long were you spending in each? What was the proposal? So it was, what, four years?

No, five years, level four. And then like three, three and a half years, level three. Yeah. What was the most dangerous situation that you found yourself in? Probably in a riot. I remember, like, cracking one off. And I don't want to like disclose too much of the names and stuff. But basically it was over a drug debt.

And then they basically were like, hey, Johnny, you know, you. And this was out of some jealousy. I could just tell. Because when people find out that you're short to the house, which means you're going home very, you know, you're short. Like you're going to be home in like a month, two months, three months, whatever it is. They start to feel jealous of you. Because if they have all day, meaning they're doing life without parole or life, some people get this. idea of like, oh, you think you're better than us. Like, I'm going to make it so you throw your

life away. Right. And so it was purely based off of that. And it was my fault. I told somebody who I trusted early, early on. And I guess he remembered when I was going to get out. And so he he had LWAP, Life Without. And I remember he also even dropped down in points as well. And at the end of it, you know, he was basically like, hey, there's a drug debt. We got to roll this guy off basically. he got to put in work on him. You have to do it. And he was telling me. And I was like, okay.

And I wanted to say I was short to the house, but I was like, I'm going to look like a- Do you want to be a bitch? Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I'm going to look like a girl, right? And so I'm like, all right, I got you. So what's going to happen? Well, you're going to crack it off. And I'm like, all right, cool, meaning you started.

So I remember this dude, he's huge Samoan dude, right? Big Ouso. And the homie, I was like, Like, this is all manipulation, but I'm like, I'm too deep now. So he's like, you, you, you guys go together. All right, cool. Six of us, one of him. He was prunowed out, which is like drunk, right?

And he was known for, again, running up debt, beating up his cellmates. But no one would say anything to him because he's huge, right? And I remember just going up to him like, what's up, how you doing? And I shook his hand. And I remember with all my might, I socked him in the face. And he just went, like, look. at me. And I was like, oh, snap. And then he cocked back and then everybody jumped in on him. And I remember this guy is like super strong because we were stomping him out. And he had blood in

his mouth and he was laughing. He's like, oh, guys, stop. He's like this. And we were just like, damn, this guy is took six of us. We still couldn't get him like, you know, completely rolled off. But, you know, then the COs came and the OC pepper spray and gas and all that. But, you know, stuff like that where it was very sticky because, again, I cracked it off. I could have, you know, caught a violent charge that would have been a strikeout for me, right? If they were to, you know, either snitch or I get caught in the act, they would have struck me out. I would have did a minimum of 25 to life there. For that one incident.

Yeah. Yeah. That's just, and this is like, because court, even in prison, where a lot of people catch life is in prison because they think like, well, I'm already in prison. You can't, no, you can trump charges in prison. People have, I've met many people in there for five years stretch and they get called. Their number gets called and they go and they do a stabbing and they end up killing the guy. They get caught for it and now they have, they went from five years to life, right? It's just how, especially California is like this. What if you refuse? Then you get rolled off. Then you get stabbed.

then what's going to come to them is going to come to you. And so for me, it was just very difficult to like, it's like, damned if you do, damned if you don't. You got to choose a lesser the two evils, you know? And yeah, it was very sadistic in a lot of ways, but also it made me feel like this adrenaline of like, oh, I can prove myself. Yes, they're using me, but like I can also do this. Sounds intoxicating.

The respect that you get sounds intoxicated. 100%. 100%. Yeah, it's almost like an addiction in itself. Some people I know in there Till this day are like They just raise their hand just to Because it's like you get infamous for it

Oh that guy did that oh he was in the whole Whoa this guy did that Did you see him? And it just spreads like wildfire Feels like gangs manufacture belonging Better than society does for some men That's a bar 100% Yeah

Yeah What do you think What were the hardest things to unlearn after prison? The hardest thing to unlearn was that you have your own back and that you're like the master of your own destiny. In prison you learn, yes, they lock you in, but there's this confidence of like, I made it out. And so there's this heart of I can do whatever I want because I've been to like the lowest

of the low. So there is a pride in it. And it's again, an intoxicating pride. And it just feels very highhearted is the best. way to explain it. So I had to unlearn that. I had to unlearn the criminal mindset where it was like, how do I take advantage of this person? So the manipulative mindset was very difficult for me to unlearn because it's ingrained in you. Right. Okay, well, I'm hungry. So how am I going to hustle? Okay, I'll take this and have this guy give me these stamps. And then with these stamps, I'll trade it for

this person. And I know that person needs money right now. So it's like, it's all the ecosystem. That's the vulnerability that I can exploit here. Yes. And so I think that was the hardest thing was people would come to me like my friends and I would pick up on patterns. Oh, he struggles at nighttime and he wants to do cocaine during these hours. Like I'm not even paying attention. It would just come to me.

Right. So I think unlearning the manipulation definitely was difficult. The anger that goes from zero to 100 and then back to zero was difficult. It's like every little science. of disrespect, the anger just, you just take it there. How quickly were you able to sleep after something like that happened? Would your head hit the pillow and you'd be able to sleep normally? Yeah, that's when I felt like I was broken, was when I did the, like, a stabbing in prison.

And then I was like, proud of it. And then it was just like, dang, is there something wrong? And there's like that little voice, right, of like, there's something wrong, but I would, I would like drown that out because I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'm good. Like, they deserve. And I would try to, I guess, pacify myself. but also defend that. No, they did this.

They shouldn't. Vacation. Yes. Yes. And so that was also very difficult. I guess then accountability, right? It's like, how do you? I remember early on my homies would say that to me.

And these are other gang members who do the same thing. So you know it's bad when they're like, bro, you're manipulative. I'm like, you're a manipulator calling me a manipulator, right? So I just remember them saying like, you're never wrong. And they would, that would be the running joke. bro, it's never wrong. Like, don't even talk to him, bro, it's never wrong. I, what do you mean? Let's get up then. Let's fight, you know? Like, see? You see what I'm saying? And then, just like, man, whatever, you're a bitch, and then they're just like, whatever. And they just

knew, like, that's how he is. He's just been in prison way too long. And he just, he just thinks he's right all the time. And he pops off. A quick aside, you probably heard me talk about element before. And that's because I've started every single morning the same way for the last five years now, which is a cold glass of water with elements in it. Element is an electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't. It's a science-backed electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium and magnesium. No sugar, no coloring, no artificial ingredients. It reduces muscle cramps and fatigue, supports brain function and helps to regulate your appetite throughout the day. I genuinely notice the difference when I take it versus when I don't, which is why I don't shut up about it

and also why it's used by everyone, from Dr. Andrew Huberman to Olympic athletes and FBI sniper teams, the good sniper teams, not the bad ones. Also, never no questions, ask refund policy. So if you don't like it for any reason, they'll just give you your money back. Plus, they offer free shipping in the US. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of elements most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to link in the description below. They're heading to drinklmnt.com slash modern wisdom. That's drinklmnt.com slash bottom wisdom. It feels like brotherhood requires an enemy in this way. Like you guys are bound together, bonded together, over the mutual tribalism of it not being.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Yeah, it really is. Because it's like there are times, it's interesting that you say that because I remember there's times where we didn't have an enemy. Like everyone was our enemy

and then people got locked up and then we kind of made a lot of gangs go defunct. And then we start beefing with each other. Yeah. We literally like, it's called set tripping. We would hate on each other. Sed tripping? Set tripping.

Set set set. Set set. Set set. Set set. Set set. SET tripping means like you're from a set. You're from a set. from a set. So the way my gang works is an umbrella, right? It's like, think of Bank of America,

but there's like the Austin branch and the California branch, right? So we're all Bank of America, basically, but we'd trip on each other. And yeah, that was also really crazy as well. But yeah, it's interesting that you say that. Yeah, I think you see it, was it, men destroy others in times of war and themselves in times of peace. And it's kind of the same thing with the brotherhood piece here that, hey, if we've got nobody else to fight, well, I need to fight someone. Then there's no one on the outside, so I'll stop fighting somebody on the inside. That's good. Yeah.

Now, that's interesting. What are, what was integration like coming back out? Because you've done basically, apart from 67 days. Yeah. 12? 13 years. 12 and a half, 13 years back to back. Yeah.

It was hard. I remember just unlearning a lot of things that I had to learn. I mean, it did teach me structure. I think that was one of the benefits where I would come home and I was already just make your bed. You know, it was good. I was kind of like very productive, as weird as that sounds. But I knew I was broken. This one incident, it was like a couple months after I got out.

I finally decided like, all right, I'm going to get out the house a little bit. I'm going to explore because when you go to prison, there's things that you don't want to be around. You don't want to be around too many people. you get this social anxiety because you get you're like it's almost like you get claustophobic it's at the same feeling of claustophobic but in the open if that makes sense like it feels better to just be like alone and so i would feel that number one you didn't like to be around too many people no yeah because i would be watching their every move i would see people cross in front of you like when you're speaking and someone walks like that's very disrespectful right and you have to say excuse me in prison like if i'm

walking around some, excuse me, it's very respectful because there's mutual violence. Well, in the world, it's not like that. It's what I get run into you and you're just like, yo, what the hell? And then they just keep walking, right? So I was like, all right, let me avoid that because I know myself, I'll catch a case and go crazy. So, and finally I get out and I'm like, all right, I got to go get some stuff, groceries, whatever. I go to Walmart. And I remember I'm blown away because I'm like, yo, you could get like tires and then like, I don't know, food.

And it's like all in one, right? I'm blown away too. being British, there's no, we don't have supermarket. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. So you know. I'm making an analogy between being British and going to prison. But I, you know, I get there and I remember seeing the correctional or the security guard, I'm sorry, and I'm like, hey, can you take me to the restroom?

And he kind of looks at me and he goes, yeah, the code is, you go all the way in the back to the right, the code is. And I'm like, yeah, but can you take me? And that's when I realized I'm free, but I wasn't free in here. Because in prison. He saw a guy in a uniform. Yeah. And that's what they're supposed.

supposed to do, especially on four yards, is they take, you don't just go to the restroom, you could do contraband, they take you there. And you got to, like, go back, you know, and have them kind of monitor you. So it's like you'd been conditioned, like Pavlovian conditioning of see man in uniform, need bathroom, ask man in uniform to take me to bathroom. Yeah. And that's when he saw me and he was just like, yeah, the code is this. And I'm like, but you got to take me, though. And then I was dead serious, like deadpan. And he was just like, oh, we don't. we don't do that here. I don't offer that service.

Yeah. And I was like, oh, wait, so I just get the code. And he's like, yeah, you just go and you. And then I walked and I remember having like chills like, what the heck? This is weird. It's like being a child. Yeah. It's like being a child.

Not knowing like I have to put my hand in the air. I have to have permission to do this thing. Yeah. And then my friends who did prison time too would come over. My light would still be on past like 9 p.m. 10 p.m. And they're just like, bro, turn off your lights, bro. And again, in prison, they shut it off for you automatically. So there's little things like this where I didn't learn to turn the light up.

Yeah, I didn't realize. I was like, oh, oh, that's true. And so, you know, I think that's when I just really was like, dude, I didn't feel institutionalized, but I guess I was. Such an arrested development, though, from 12 until fucking 25. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is so formative. Yeah. It's more formative.

If you've been from zero until 13, it would have probably been less formative than from 12 to 25. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. True. Yeah. Crazy. Okay. So back into the real world, what are you doing?

So I kind of want to back it up a little bit. Prior to that, I obviously, you know, the only religion that was really respected in prison was being Muslim. And so I remember seeing a guy, he was like my first mentor, I would say. I, you know, my gang being as big as it is, I had a lot of friends who were in prison. So when I hung out with them, we would, I would know them, you know, I would hear about them and stories about them and actually hung out with them. But I never had an actual mentor, mentor who was like someone I looked up to, right? I looked up to them because they were gangster, but I knew that they couldn't really help me. I remember meeting this guy.

It was, you know, Muslim guy, Middle Eastern guy. He ran with the others, which is our car, our group. And he was very well respected, which I think. thought was weird. Okay, so he's religious. He prays. Ramadan comes around. He has a special diet. Bro, reads, carries himself very respectfully works out. You know, all of that. And I remember, you know, him just being very respectful to me. He knew about my history. You know, China has 5,000 years of history. You're Chinese, right? You're northern Chinese. You're taller. You know, I'm just like, what the heck this has given me a history lesson? Exactly. And he just knew. He was

a smooth networking guy, right? And so, he's like, yeah, bro, like, you got a brain. I remember him saying, you got a brain. And I'm like, okay. And he's like, you got to use that, bro. You know what I'm saying? And I'm like, yeah, he's like, with all due respect, you know, I'm just letting you know. And he's like, you should sell with me.

And I was like, okay, because you can make requests to like live with certain people. And I was, I was having an issue with one of my Vietnamese homies, my cellmates at that time. So I was like, yeah. How many people but sell? Oh, two. Yeah. So I end up, you know, moving in with him. And yeah, lo and behold, he starts to kind of convert me a little bit.

But it was very good. I felt, I think for the first time, a little bit of sense of purpose. Because he was like, yo, let's get up, bro. Selly, let's get up. Let's work out, man. And I'm like, cool. And he would challenge. He'd push me.

And I was like in the best shape of my life at that time. And he's like, you should read this. And he brought me. I remember it was like the art of war with General Sun Tzu. And he's like, these are your people, bro. You should read this? Like, you ever done that, man? Buddhism is amazing too.

But like, and he starts talking about Islam. And he's like, we're a religion of peace and, you know, and I learned everything from it. And my whole family's from this bloodline and these people. And I was like, cool. I was like, can I be a Muslim? And he's like, yeah, 100%. I was like, do you think the homies are going to fill some type of way, meaning the people on the yard? Like, no, no, look it.

They respect us. Like, the only thing is like being Christian, bro. And he said it. You know, he's like, and there's no disrespect to them. But like, it's just, it's very hypocritical. So if you do do this, you have to be 100% in it. And I think that's why, and he explained it, that's why people respect Islam. It's like when we do it, we're all the way in praying five times a day.

We take it serious because everything else is haram or sin, you know? And I'm like, cool, I'll do it. So Islam's seen as a more rigid, more disciplined religion? 100% because Christianity seems to be. I had Sam Harris on the show a couple of years ago and he had this description, which I've never been able to forget. And he says that Islam's a high-tie religion. It is.

It's like a high testosterone religion. Whereas Christianity in many ways is turning the other cheek. It's about forgiveness. It's about grace to your neighbor, et cetera, et cetera. So I can imagine in a prison environment where respect and power is really respected. Islam would fit itself way more. Yes, yes. I mean, maybe even lower than the Christians might be the Buddhists because they're all about the peace.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. True. Yeah, that's crazy. Okay, so you start thinking a bit more about theology. Yeah, so I start, you know, studying with him. and he's he was so open-minded that he's like, you know, a true Muslim reads the Bible too. And I was like, interesting. So he started, again, teaching me everything.

These are the books before it. We got to pull from Moses and all this. And we call it. This guy sounds awesome. Yeah. He was really cool, honestly. And he, you know, ends up converting me. And we just kind of like, for a good two to three years, I'm like 100% hardcore Sunni Muslim.

And, you know, I'm learning all these things. The one thing that I start to recognize, though, is that there was some things that were going against, like, their teachings was kind of going against how we programmed on the yard. So I think my first religion was gang banging, right, obviously. And it was just a mechanical for me. So I'm sitting there and I'm like, well, there's certain things that are going against, like, you know, I read verses and I tried to ask him. Where I saw it was bad was when I asked him, he got defensive towards me. And that was the first time I saw that when I questioned, It was like, hey, respectfully, you don't know the Arabic and you don't know.

So don't ask me that. And he even said it. Like, it's very disrespectful that you're doing that because I'm like an imam to you, meaning a leader. You're not supposed to ask. And I'm like, but I thought we're supposed to ask questions and like, what the heck. And so that kind of made me feel the betrayal that I felt, right? From a young age, like, dang, I finally found something like my hood.

No one's visiting me at this time. So I felt betrayed by them. And then this guy did this where I'm like, yo, I'm leaning on you. And I feel that betrayal. again. And the one thing that really solidified me to leave was that, again, stand-up guy, still respected him as a human being. You know, he was well respected. He was like, yeah, I'm getting out of here. So he was a life for her, but he got out. You know, he got a chance of parole. And everyone's like, bro, we know you're going to make it out there. You're studied.

You're smart, whatever. Six months later, he comes back. And that's when I realized, holy crap, like, I'm done. I'm not even as disciplined as bro. I'm not as articulate and smart as him, I don't think I'll make it out there. And I remember at that time, I was thinking about should I catch my last strike in here and just live in here? Because I don't know if I'm going to make it out there. If this guy can't make it out there and he wakes up every morning, his discipline, he studied, he doesn't even have any like gang in mentality, any of that. Then what the heck? I'm cooked, basically. And so, you know, I was thinking about that. But thank God, by the grace of God, I was able to make it out. And so I get out and I'm trying to fly straight because I'm like,

I don't want to go back to this. I've spent all of my adolescents, basically, in youth, in prison. What do I do now? Right? And I try to fly straight. Transparently, I'm like, let me go and just apply to everything. Home Depot, Walmart. But the way that it was back then, it just wasn't as open as it is now.

So when you check that box that says, have you ever committed a crime? And then you have to give the information and be real. The first couple, I lied because I was just like, all right, I'm going to check it. I'm going to say like petty theft or something, right? but they obviously do a background check and they found out that I had violent crimes and I didn't even get callbacks or anything and so during that time I think I felt very again very angry and frustrated and then I was like eff it you know I'm gonna go back to this this life that I know started plugging in with the homies started running started doing stuff and then it's making 40 50k a month allegedly right and and and and and you know I'm making this money I got a hen house now, you know, buying certain things. And I'm just living that gangster lifestyle, women and drugs and everything. And yeah, I end up just feeling still this emptiness and this void that I had felt in prison, but I think I had stuffed it away or maybe because of the

environment was so chaotic that I didn't really pay attention to. But I had, again, this emptiness. And I'm like, okay, maybe I got to make more money. Maybe I got to do more drugs. Maybe I got to, and I just amped it up. I went crazy. with it to the point where I was overdose. It was crazy. Still, emptiness. And the way I describe it was like a hole in my heart that no matter what I did, it didn't matter the productivity that I did. I could make way more money this month. It did not matter. It was like at nighttime, it would be, my thoughts would come and haunt me. It would be one thought leads into 10 thoughts, leads into 50 thoughts. I'm feeling like nothing's happening externally. Everything is internal. I feel this emptiness and

this void in my heart. It feels like somebody's stepping on my. my heart. I can't even like inhale and exhale. And then I just would cry. I would straight up like, don't know why I would be like, oh, I'm so empty. What's wrong with me? And then I would try to fight it. No, I'm a man. I don't do this. Like I'm good. I'm going to get up tomorrow and I'm going to try again. And then it was this constant, best way to explain it was like a roller coaster lifestyle. Happy when I was happy for a little bit and then sad, happy, sad, happy sad, happy sad, happy, sad, happy, sad. And then I felt very, very empty inside. And I think at that time was when I decided to try to take my life because I'm like, okay, I come up from the projects.

I'm living off of food stamps when I was a kid. I finally get out. I had this dream that if I make 5 to 10K a month, I'm set. I'm making 10x, 5x, 10x, 10x stat. And I'm still not happy. Everyone around me is like wanting my lifestyle. Because when you go to prison, it is an ecosystem where it's networking. So when I get out, I know other people have got out.

And because we run by the same program, we don't snitch, we're solid. We start to do business together. And so you start to open up these different streams of income, right? Just solely based off of your name in prison that you're good. And so, you know, I'm making all of this money. And I'm just like, why am I not happy? And then during that time, you know, a friend of mine, he's like, rest of soul. But he's like, yeah, bro, like, we got to get about this game.

I think we got to try to fly straight. He's talking about investing. And I was like, what the heck is all this stuff? You know, he's like, we can't do this. You know, there's an expiration. and I'm like, all right, he was always level-headed, a much smarter person than me. So there's gang members and gang bangers, right? He was a gang member, meaning, like, he didn't really do work.

He was, like, the brains and, like, membership. Gang-banger is someone like me just crashing out. I'll do it. Yeah, like, just crash dummy, right? And so we had, like, a perfect combination because he was, like, the brains and I was like the brawn. So we, you know, plan to rob this well-known drug dealer in our area. and he was like a multi-millionaire,

you know, Porsches and, you know, Ferrari and all this stuff. And so, you know, I go there at night. We're planning on taking like 25 packs and some keys of cocaine and we were just going to rob him of it, right? But we acted like we were buyers. Like, oh, yeah, we're interested, but we're going to lick them. The plan was for me to go to the right of the car

and the homie was supposed to go to the left of the car. So I stepped to the right. He ends up stepping to the right with me. And I'm like, okay, so I naturally obviously just go to the left. And I'm going to the driver's side and I'm like, yo, what's up, Tommy? And then when I pull the gun, I hear three shots ring out this way. And I actually assumed at first that it was my homie who just lit him up. And I was like, what the heck?

And then the guy's like driving off. And then I feel the bullets whizzing. And then I see my friend had fallen. So we didn't know that the guy had his homie in the back, like just sitting there too, just in case he was going to get robbed. We didn't know that. We thought it was just him because he was known for just off the strength. People would respect him. They wouldn't rob him.

So he'd go by himself. But we were like, no, we're going to get you, you know. But he was ready. He was ready. And it was at time that my friend died in my arms. And I think during that time, I had Survivor's guilt because I'm like, I was supposed to die, right? If he didn't step in front of me, I think I would have got lit up for sure and I wouldn't be here. And so that happens.

And then, you know, a few days after I get a kite from the pen penitentiary, which is this cryptive secret letter and note from a friend of mine who also grew up in the projects with me. He did a lot of stuff with me. It was in the gang as well. And he ends up, you know, just writing this eerie, hey, brother, I miss you. I'll see you when I see you. You know, I remember the good times when you miss me, look to the mountains, you know, just weird things like this. And I'm like, and I find out that he hung himself in prison. And then there's a youngster who I was very in love with.

He was like a carbon copy of me when I was 12. He was 15, 16. He ends up, you know, getting shot from a car to car shooting, dies on the scene. So within a matter of a week and a half, two weeks, this has happened. And so in my head, obviously, I'm like, okay. not only is this a tremendous, like I can't handle this anymore, but I also feel this, this, it was like death in the air. And as crazy as that is, thinking you're in prison and all that, I never actually felt that. I knew like there was death, but I don't feel like it would ever

come to me. At this moment, it felt like there was an energy that was chasing me. It's circling you. Yeah, like you're going to die soon. The supplement industry is full of products making claims that they can't back, which is why I'm such a massive fan of Momentus. Their co-founder, Jeff Byers, played in the NFL and saw firsthand just how wildly the quality of supplements can vary. So he built Momentus around a higher standard. Every product from Momentus uses evidence-backed ingredients, transparent doses and independent third-party testing. Everything is NSF certified for sports. So what's on the label is actually what's in the tub. It's why Momentus is trusted inside all 32 NFL law. locker rooms. It's why I've trusted them with my own supplements for years. Best of all, Momentus offers a 30-day money-back guarantee so you can buy it and try it for 29 days. If you don't love it, they will give you your money back, plus they ship internationally. Right now, you get up to 35% off your first subscription and that 30-day money-back guarantee by going to the link in the description below. We're heading to LiveMomomomomomom

Wisdom and using the code Modern Wisdom at checkout. That's L-I-V-E-M-O-M-T-O-U-S dot com slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom at checkout. Yeah, it was just bad. It was bad. And but again, did not know what to do, right? I'm like, okay, well, I guess I'm going to die then. Like, whatever. I'm going to just live however I want because there's no hope in me. And then my mom's car breaks down.

And it's in San Bernardino. And that's about an hour away from where we live and the church that she goes to. And at this time, you know, my mom's from Korea. Ethnically, though, she's Chinese. So she's born in Korea, speaks Korean, speaks Mandarin and English. She's trilingual. Cool. She then gets a job essentially at the church as like an interpreter, right, for the pastors. And she calls me and she's like, Johnny, my car is broken down. Can you come and pick me up?

You know, okay, cool. Where are you at? Sam Brady, oh my gosh, San Bernardino is like an hour away. Like, what are you doing out there? She's like, well, car overheated. It's hot out here. Can you please just come and take me? My brother's in prison. He's doing his 14-year bid at this time. My dad is obviously deadbeat dad. he's just not in the picture he's drunk all the time still so i'm like all right let me just go help mom you know let me do this solid for her end up going picking her up and remember on the car ride to the church i'm like mom do not invite me to this church like i know how you christians get down you guys love to convert people and do all this crap so remember telling her i'm not going to go in are you still considering yourself muslim at this time no no i was already just kind of like

traditionally buddhist but like not practicing and kind of just atheist right i'm like there's something, but I don't, it's like, I don't care. You know, it's like whatever. So I end up, you know, taking her there. And then I remember mom opened the door and then the smell of Black Bean noodles enters the car. And it's my favorite dish, bro. It's like a Korean dish, delicacy. It's like a dry cooked noodle. It's amazing. And I smell it. And I'm like, whoa, this is fire. And I had forgotten that because my dad was a chef. But the one thing he would do, which was really weird. And now I know why in hindsight is 2020. is he would beat me.

And his way of saying sorry was he would cook black bean noodles for me. And so I almost had this kind of connection to him through that. It's like, okay, he would beat me up, but then it would be like the best tasting noodles. And he's a really good chef, you know. So I remember that kind of triggered a memory, but it felt like comforting in some kind of way. And so I see the pastor and he just sees me and he's got kind of shocked too, like, oh, shoot, like are you Johnny who? are you James or you Johnny which is my my older brother and me and I'm like oh I'm Johnny he goes well nice to meet you I'm Pastor Kim you know um your mom you know I'm so sorry like your mom kind of drove

really far um thank you for picking her up you know we'll help her with her car if she needs it's okay um but yeah you know we made some black bean noodles Johnny and um I can put it in it's a go container and then just send it send you off your way and for some reason because I was really big about respect in the Asian culture um You know, even in prison, like if you eat, you don't try to eat by yourself. Like you break spread, as we say. Like you bring everybody together and you just chill and you eat. So in that culture and then kind of in the gang culture, it's ingrained, I was just kind of like,

I feel a little disrespectful if I just took the food and just left. So I was just like, yeah, I'll come in and eat with you guys. And then my mom, I remember looking at me like, what the hell? You just said you weren't going to like come in. the pastor was just kind of like, oh, oh yeah, yeah, you can come in like, sure, no problem. We're all eating, but like, yeah, and then I remember him taking me to the back room. And yeah, he brought me the black bean noodles in a bowl, brought me these like diacon. It was like yellow diacon.

And when I was eating it, it was so good. I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. And it was, again, handmade, homemade, just authentic. And then I sit down with him and then he talks about, you know, starts to ask me questions. He asked me these questions that kind of like pissed me off at first because he goes, are you a sinner?

And do you know what sin is? Right? And I'm like, here we go. So I just tell the pastor like, hey, pastor respectfully, I was a Muslim, not practicing anymore. I do believe and lean more towards like peace and like Buddhism. So I'm not really here for that. But, you know, respectfully like I know what sin is.

And of course I'm a sinner. And he's just like, well, what is it? Right? And I'm like, well, it's you doing evil things that are not, you know, according to God. And yes, have I done evil things? Of course. I was in a gang. And then he goes, not so.

Like, that's not true. And I was like, what? And I remember Catholics coming into the prisons. They had Mormons coming into prisons, other Protestants. Everybody would explain sin as. breaking the commandments, messing up, going against God, and you have to repent, right? Sin and repentance. I knew that, even though I wasn't a believer. And he, it's from him, he was like, no, it's an identity issue. So right there, he taught me basically, you know,

the origin of original sin and how it's an identity. And he used a lot of analogies. He was like, you're born Chinese. And I'm like, yes, did you choose to be Chinese? I'm like, no, what the heck is this guy talking to? He's about to. get racist right now, you know? And he's just like, do you, if you eat a lot of orange chicken, would that make you more Chinese? And I'm like, no. And he goes, if you eat less orange chicken and fried rice and chalming, would that make you less Chinese? And I'm just like, bro, get to the point, you know? And he's just like, so why are you Chinese? And I'm like, why am I, I, I'm born that way. And he goes, exactly. He goes, sin is the same way. You're born into this sin.

you're trying to do good in your life, you can't. And it's this constant uphill battle. And he goes, you know, what that bleeds into is emptiness. The outcome of trying to do good, an imperfect person trying to produce perfection, you then keep falling short. And then when you keep falling short, you feel empty. And that's the first time somebody articulated what I was feeling inside of my heart to me. And I'm like kind of blown away because I'm like first of all this guy's balzy, right?

He's telling me as a gang member that I'm empty. Basically, I'm not a man. I can't, I don't have emotional regulation and, you know, maturity and EQ. And he goes, but the thing he follows up with is that's normal. What you feel, Johnny, is normal. Now, all throughout my life from my dad to even my mom calling me a monster, my dad saying I never wanted you beating me, me being known as a YA number and a CDC, California Department Corrections number, that's the first time he kind of like humanized me, right? He's like, you're normal

and you're going to feel empty until you figure out what I'm about to tell you. And so he then explains it, right? That's why you need someone to save you out of it. You know, there's this person named Jesus, right? And I'm like, I know, I've heard of this guy, right? And he goes, we call him our Lord and Savior for a reason. He's like, it's to, he has to save you. And he used a lifeguard analogy. He's like, if you're drowning and, you know, you're in the middle of the ocean and there's no one around you, what can you only do, die, right?

But if a lifeguard comes and pulls you out from a boat and puts you on land, you didn't save yourself. The lifeguard saved you. In the same way, you're drowning in your depression. You're drowning in your past trauma. you're drowning in your loneliness, emptiness, anxiety, everything. You can't get yourself out of it. You're trying and you do well for a little and you fail.

And Jesus is the one who has to get you out of it. And I guess for the first time in my life, it just clicked. It made sense. No one has ever explained that to me. I think all other religions were always like, hey, you got to do it. There's a level of you meeting God, right? And again, it was all mechanical for me. I realized that, oh my gosh, it's true.

productivity output was what I was focused on. And the issue with that is I'm at the center of that. So if I'm putting productivity, if I'm putting, you know, everything depends on my last result, let's say, then yeah, I'm going to live like a roller coaster. Of course, I'm going to fail. And so it just made sense to me. You know, he put it in a way that was so palatable and digestible and simple yet profound. And it felt for the first time in my life like true hope. in this man. And again, I didn't know him from like a bum on the street. He's this Korean dude, short dude, clean cut. Mind you, he's speaking through a translator as well because this English isn't even good. So this random dude on the side who's just like speaking English and I'm like, who the hell are you? You're like all up in our business. But he didn't know how to speak English, right? And so I'm like, okay, all this is happening. My mom's on the side. She's like kind of like getting emotional and he's just like does this make sense johnny like i'm like yeah 100 so but then what do i do

now practically speaking what am i just thank you jesus and that's it like everything gets better i don't understand and so he was explaining uh you know all of these just core concepts to me that i've never heard and basically the best way i could put it is he put like a mirror in front of me for the first time humanized me said i was normal and then said this is what's wrong with you this is how i'm going to help you with these things. So he, he, in that moment I didn't realize kind of was mentoring me. Again, something I was longing for. A father figured didn't have any of that. And yeah, he started to just guide me through these things. And I think we ended up staying there for like almost two hours, just talking like this. And at the end of it, I felt this piece of like, oh my gosh, I, I'm not

alone. There is light at the end of the tunnel. I now just have to figure out and listen to this dude. he just understands me, which is wild, right? And he challenges me that day, actually, which I think was very, again, very bold of this dude, but I respected it because I'm like, this guy's like really just not a normal person. He goes, how is your relationship with your father? And I'm like, horrible.

And I know what's coming, right? You want me to forgive him? Like basically is what I said. And he's like, no, not necessarily. He's like, I just, I want to show you some scriptures. and he showed me Romans 715, Roman 720 basically says that there are people that do things that they don't want to do. Like they want to be happy. They want to be loving.

But then they end up addicted and they do the things that they don't want to do. He goes, you for example, did you ever think you wanted to wake up and go, you know what? I'm going to be depressed today. And I'm like, no. So you probably hate depression. I'm like, yeah. And he goes, and yet you end up depressed. Why do you think that is?

And I'm like, I don't know. And then he gives me the verse 7.20. If I do the things that I'm doing, it's no more I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. He explains it. It's because you waking up going, I'm not going to be depressed today. I'm not going to be this today. It's the same as saying I'm not going to be Asian today or Chinese today. And he's like, do you think that's possible or impossible?

He's like, and it's also because you've never learned. You've never learned another system other than this system here, right? And so he's like, if you're willing to, like, I want to like help you with that. But there's one thing that I need from you. And then he talks about my dad, right? He goes, you should apologize to your father. And I'm like, literally, I mean, excuse my language, but I was like, fuck that. I straight up told him, fuck that.

And he was just like, that's fair. That's valid. Hear me out. You know, hear me out. He goes, I understand. And I'm like, where does the victim? And I couldn't even articulate my words because I was pissed. Where does the guy that gets beaten up has to say so?

You know? And he goes, yeah, we're the victim apologized. It's true. he goes but as right as you are johnny you're also miserable um if you're being honest you know i've been honest with you so please be honest with me do you ever look at other families and look at other people and go man i wish my dad was like that and i said of course i said but that ship has sailed you know it's like defensive and you know i don't care anymore if he dies i don't i'm not going to visit him and he goes you know as right as you are you're miserable because of that um you're the judge of

everything and so he goes the reason why i'm telling you to say sorry is because I have faith that, and he used an analogy, when two countries go to war, they're both fighting for what they believe in is true and what they believe is right. And during that time, countries are broken, people die. There is no peace only chaos.

He goes, your father, however, if this word and you believe pertains to you also pertains to every human being, would you agree? And I was like, reluctantly, like, yeah, that's true. I could see that. And he goes, your dad also probably had some stuff in him. And I'm not saying what he did was okay. But he kind of just humanized my dad.

And he goes, if you say sorry, it's like that country that just concedes. All right, fine. Take the resources. Do whatever you got to do. Then they rebuild it and at least peace flows in. And that's important. Right. And so he goes, you know, if you do this, I think your dad would mend the relationship with you.

So two hearts I remember came up, two thoughts, was why do I even care to mend the relationship with somebody like this? But the other side of it was also like, dang, this guy knows what he's talking about. He's dissecting me in a way. He's obviously super smart and articulate. He's thinking on a different level. If I don't listen to bro, I think I'm going to struggle. Like he has like the antidote.

And I just felt like I had to hear him out and I had to try. Sounds like a lot of respect. Yeah, and I super respected him because of that. And again, I was still shocked because I just met this guy. But I just, again, no one has ever articulated anything like that. Totally decoded you and threw a translator in the space of two hours. Literally, literally. And I'm like, that's crazy.

And so, you know, he goes, I don't know you. He goes, but the Bible is about you and it's about Jesus. And I know the Bible. So that's why I kind of know what you're going through. Because I asked him, how do you even know these things? So anyways, fast forward. I end up meeting with my dad. And this is the thing I went viral for essentially.

But I, you know, meet my dad. It's tense. Remember calling him? And the first thing he says is, who is this? And I'm like, bro, I'm your son. And you don't even know my voice. Because we haven't seen each other for like, you know, 12, 13, 14 years. And I'm like, yeah, it's Johnny.

And he goes, uh, I don't have any money. And I was like, I don't need your money, right? And then I remember just like getting so mad at him. but I like remembered what the pastor was saying. Like maybe it's not him. Just after that two hour a meeting. This was, yeah, about a day after. I had to sit on it for a little bit,

but it was like 24 hours after. And yeah. And then I remember just calling him. And I'm like, hey, dad, I want to meet you somewhere. Let's meet up here, Noodle City in, on 6th Street in Elhambra, a flood restaurant. And he's like, yeah, yeah, that's fine. We'll meet.

Like, what do you need? We'll meet. So I end up getting there and it's weird. I see my dad. He's aged now. He's like, a little chunkier, you know, and he's just like, I see him. I sit down in front of him and, like, at first I feel frustration and tension. I remember it's just like this feeling of like, why am I here? I feel stupid. And if I say something and he doesn't respond the way that I want him to, I'll probably kill him, for real. And so I'm like, all right, like, and I'm sitting there and he's like, what did you want to talk to me about? And I was like, Dad, I'm sorry. Like, I remember just rushing it. I'm sorry. You know, I'm sorry that I was a bad son.

I'm sorry that I joined a gang and I ruined your American dream. I'm sorry that I couldn't help you. And I remember not even making eye contact with him, just like looking down. And I look up thinking my dad's going to be like, yeah, you should be sorry. And he ends up looking at me and I see his eyes. Like, he starts to like have tears. He starts crying. And he's like, you know, Johnny, I'm sorry.

Like, I waited a very long time for this, you know, but I didn't know how. how to approach it. Like the reason why I didn't go to visit you in prison is because I felt like I created you in a way, you know, and he's, and I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I always saw my dad as like narcissistic. Never could be wrong. He's never said I love you and he's never said I'm sorry. So I remember just crying too. It shocked me. And yeah, it felt like that, that those years of pain just pretty much went away. And then I hugged them, which was crazy. So that's the first time he said, I love you and I'm sorry in the same sentence. And we just reconciled, you know?

And then I was like, dang, pastors got the wisdom. Like, I was literally like, how does bro know this? Like, and I think that for me was just enough to be like, okay, there must be a God. There must be like, how does, how is it that I went completely against what I thought and felt and then experienced this, you know? And then he started to train me. That's what surrendering is. surrendering is not, oh, let me see if it makes sense and then I'll let go.

Faith is also not, oh, it needs to make sense and then I'll let go, right? And so he was explaining that to me. And then over the years, he's nurtured me. My dad stopped drinking. My dad met that pastor to receive salvation as well. He goes to church. Now, my dad was hardcore, like, not even, he was agnostic. Like, he was just like, I don't even, you know, he went from that to going, if this God,

changed my son Johnny to be this way. Like there must be something, you know? And he's, yeah, goes to church. It's funny. He used to always talk trash about Christians too. All they want is your money, you know? And it's like crazy stuff. But looking back at it, I'm just very proud of him. Yeah.

Jared, if you ever considered you might have a drinking problem? I don't consider a lot, Chris. Well, you drank an entire case of athletic brewing coal last night. But they're non-alcoholic. And that's not a problem? Sorry, man. I kept chugging wait for the regret. to creep in, never happened. Didn't you end up going home with that chick with the lazy eye?

I didn't seem lazy to me. See, most people like Jared don't actually want to change what they drink. They just don't want the next day to be a complete write-off, which is why I'm such a huge fan of Athletic Brewing Co. They make the best-n' brews on the planet so you can still have something cold and tasty, just without the usual trade-off. You can find Athletic Brewing Co's best-selling lineup at grocery or liquor stores near you, or best option, get a full variety pack of four-flavor shipped direct to your door. Get 15, percent off your first online order by going to the link in the description below or heading to athleticbrewing.com slash modern wisdom using the code modern wisdom at checkout. That's athletic brewing.com slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom a checkout. Nearby, terms and conditions apply

a athletic brewing company fit for all times. Which part of you most resisted becoming peaceful, do you think? Ooh, that's a good question. I think the part of me that didn't fully die, And what I mean by that is on both sides of the cross, right, before Christianity and after Christianity, there was this thing that I would struggle with with, like, there's still me kind of having my hands on the wheel. Like, I still am a master of my destiny in some way. Like, yeah, you can have faith,

but you got to put the steps in and put the reps in. And it was like, again, I was very productive as a human being, right? And discipline. So I think that part was like, if you let that go, yes, it seems like it's peaceful, but then it was scary because I think what I struggled with was control, right? Like, so in order to have peace, I thought you have to have more control. Right. So I used to think I had anxiety and depression because those were my issues. What I learned and what I realized was I was having control issues.

And what I mean is when things would go Johnny's way and I had a control. on it, then I could feel like, oh, okay, I'm safe, right? Even in prison, I had to control my program, do my own thing. But as soon as I didn't have control, then that would equate to danger and fear and then not peace. But the Christian mindset is you're not in control. The control comes from God. And you do, you plan boldly surrender daily, as we say.

So that was the thing that I think was like the hardest thing was, okay, I got to let go of my thoughts and my interpretations and my feelings and go against what the Bible is saying, or I'm sorry, take up what the Bible is saying, which is you can't do anything. He has to do everything. That part scared me. But that was the thing they were saying was going to give me peace. So that was the internal battle. I got the word passivity, being passive, sort of coming to mind of this fear of, passivity. I think this is, I've had this conversation with a bunch of friends. One of the most valuable traits that I have in my entire life is agency, my ability to happen to life, not for life

to happen to me. Sure. And I can see surrender, relinquishing of control, faith, giving yourself over to a higher power. If you're the sort of person that's self-made, self-powered, sovereign, blending these two worlds together. difficult. Really hard. High heart. Who else is going to make it happen? Yep.

Yep. You tell me that I'm supposed to just like hope? Yeah, yeah. Because the line between handing off control to faith and giving in, giving up effort. Yeah. Very thin. Yeah. Very, very, very thin.

And I can't remember who it is. There's a line that I love, which is a God will. steer the boat but you still have to row. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this idea of, okay, the direction might be something that's guided if you're a person of faith, but the effort still has to be that. Sure. Right?

Or else you end up just lying in your bed wishing, believing, not achieving it. 100%. I think that's, you know, I mentor a lot of people and they ask me the same thing, right? How do I surrender? You know, it's like without just being careless and, like, laxed and not motivated, right? because a lot of people are motivated, but then, you know, how I explain to people is, yeah, you have to plan boldly. The Bible even tells us, like, who sits back and then plans to build, builds a house without planning, without a blueprint, right? So I think people get this misunderstanding of Christianity where it's like you have to just let goal control completely.

You don't do anything. It's like, no, you do everything with the heart of, hey, God, I hope the outcome is this. If it's aligned with what you want, you're going to make it happen. And then it's just passing the glory to him. That's the understanding that made me let go of control in that way. Where I still work every day. I still, I'm up at 4 in the morning every single day. We did in these three days, like three separate podcasts.

We're doing turn and burn. I mean, if I had that mindset of, yeah, I'm just going to pray and then it's going to come to me. That's not how it works, right? But the Bible, again, that's a misconception that people have where it's like you got to just do nothing, right? And no, you still have to work, but the outcome is in his hands. It's this idea of grace of going, hey, God, I'm going to put all of my work in. If you want to bless it and we realign with you, go ahead. If not, then give me the heart to realign. How do you distinguish between God speaking to you and guiding you and your own inner monologue? Yes. Because for a very long time,

your gut instinct led you to fire bullets out of a car. Yeah, or pop off on someone who didn't need a. 100%. How do you learn what is impulsivity? Yeah, yeah. And a word that you should listen to. Yeah.

So for me, it's not, again, I think there's a lot of emotionalism and religion nowadays, right? When it comes to the gospel, however, it's about the word. So what I've learned, I've read the Bible front to back 27 times. It's not to flex. What my pastor taught me was, you have to go to the word always. So when you seek something, it cannot come from inside of you because your standard can change. Your feelings and emotions can change. Your voices in your head. You can be locked in

one day. It can change. It's very unstable. So your job is to go to the word or the servants who know the word. Right. So if I'm doing anything, it's always, what does the word say about this? What can I actively search and seek for? And obviously, when you first start out, you don't know the word like that. So it's a lot of like still you leading yourself. But what I learned was if it doesn't match the word of God and doesn't point to God in some way, shape, or form, it's not going to be from God, no matter how good it feels. And I think that's the issue with a lot of Christians nowadays is this, this idea of emotionalism, right? It's like if I follow myself exactly, I thought I would die from my hood and that led me to shoot and be like, well, I did it from my homies. I'm protecting them. Like, we could spin it

however we want because it's subjective and relative. The absolute for me was the word. It went completely against my thoughts and my feelings. Literally says in the Bible, my thoughts are not your thoughts. My way is not your way. So get to know me, meaning the word. When I started to read it five times front to back, you know, cover to cover, I started to get this discernment.

Oh, this is what God would want in this way. So when you move it this way, it's no longer you, Johnny, what do you think? I think the issue with a lot of people, religion aside, is I am the judge. And again, I can be the judge if everything's going good, but what if I'm handicapped? What if I'm broken? What if I'm empty?

Then what I produce will be probably those things as well, right? And so, yeah, I had to unlearn a lot of that and go, I can't really follow. You know, obviously we have practical thoughts. Am I hungry? Should I do this? Right. But I'm saying when things come, it has to, like, when an opportunity comes, the way I'm thinking is, what does Scripture say about this?

What would God think about this? Right? At the very least, you're realigning foundationally versus, oh, yeah, I want that deal because I want it. And then trying to bend God's will to like, you know, do that, right? So I think that's the difference between, you know, what I believe in versus someone going, well, God told me. Okay, God told you. but in Hebrews 412, it says discernment comes from the word. So God told you, where's the scripture to back up what he told you?

And that's the center line. There's a lot of people, God, tell you, you put it in my heart. I downloaded. Okay, great. What I'm looking for after that is what scripture is saying. And Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth will lead you back to the word, it says, right? So you can't just be like, Holy Spirit told me to buy a Ferrari. And it's like, sure, but where is the scripture to line this up?

Right. And if they can back it up and the scripture always points back to Jesus, John 539, that's how we know. Oh, this is the voice of God. This is how God speaks to us. Did becoming Christian ever feel like becoming weak? 100%. For a good while, self-powered, agentic, I'm going to make things happen. Then you get into prison.

High-T religion, right? Islam. And now you're, you know, within 24 hours, forgiving your dad, you're turning the other cheek. you're crying, he's crying. Yeah. This is not, there's a big disconnect between the person that you were and the person that you're becoming now. Yeah, yeah.

I think it did until I realized that my filter of like what weak and strong was was distorted. I think it took a lot of, I mean, honestly, I know this sounds crazy, but like when I was in the gang, like pulling the trigger and doing things like that was fairly easy for me. Because for me, it was like, bro, this is a chance. for you to shine, right? Like, people are going to be enamored by you when you do that. They're going to love you for doing this. When you're Christian and you're like, turn the other cheek, it's like, okay, that's

kind of performative in a lot of ways, at least for me. So I learned, like, you know, it was a lot harder to be a Christian. You know, and I say this all the time. It's like, my gang had six other gangs that were against us. We were in a green light against the Mexicans. And, you know, no one liked us. We were EBK, stands for everybody killer. We weren't cool with anybody.

How is it that I'm getting more, I'm getting more attacked now that I'm Christian than I was when I was in a gang? No one cared about what I said. No one made videos about me back then. So, you know, it just goes to show that it is, it's weak in a sense of sure, like bravado, high tea, tall, you know, high tea and testosterone. But at the end of the day, I think it's actually. actually, it takes a lot of strength to go, I want to handle it the easy way and the easier route, which is being violent so that every, why would I talk to you? I just beat the dog crap out of you. Or do I choose, you know, to go, they may be wrong, but let me like hear them out. Let me like be human

and rationalize with people and have dialogue. I think that was very, very difficult. But once I learned it, it just became, it was like, uh, it was like strength almost, you know. On the list of things that you've done in your life, how high up the scary ranking does having that conversation with your dad go? Oh, that was, yeah, one of the, that was right next to going back to prison to preach. So they, they go neck and neck. So I would say it's like one and two. You know, it just switches depending on the mood. That's my point that, um, the bravado side of what does real strength look like? Yeah.

What does real fearless look like? It's strange. How is it that somebody can run an ultramarathon 100 miles but not have a difficult conversation with their partner? Mm. You know, where are you applying your I do hard things muscle? Mm. You know, a lot of the time people will be prepared to get up at 4 in the morning and do the

ice plunge and go for the run and stick to their diet, but they can't tell their parents that something really got to them that happened last week. Or they're scared of opening up to their friend about how they're getting on mentally. You go, okay, well, that's not, I'm not saying that the cold plunge in the 4 a.m. run is not tough. It is. But it's, it seems obvious that there's certain areas of your life where you're prepared to be tough. There's other areas where if we were to make a measurement, you're kind of weak. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I think just like to kind of tack on to that too.

I mean, being weak is something that I also had to unlearn, right? Where it's like weak to you, again, even that is also subjective in a lot of ways, right? So I had to learn like, yeah, being weak to me doesn't actually mean you're weak. It's just you not getting there and you got to like unlearn a bunch of things. So, yeah, but I also think kind of to your point, people are, for me at least it was also pride. I think that was the, it was pride in that I can't show weakness by being vulnerable because no one ever taught me that being vulnerable was strength, right? So, yeah, and it was difficult for me.

But I think after just seeing it, kind of like riding a bike, you do it a few times and it just becomes, you get the hang of it. I remember as well, suppression isn't the same thing as strength. Suppression is different to strength. And I think a lot of what people, do what they claim as strength is not. It's subjugation, it's sublimation of whatever they're feeling into something else. But it's not suppression is not the same thing as strength.

Yeah, agreed. Bars. What have you learned about forgiveness? I've learned that forgiveness is not usually for the other person, but for you. I think when you're forgiving somebody, a lot of people have this misconstitutional. At least I did where it's like, hey, I'm going to forgive this person because they deserve it. And I think that's why they struggle with forgiving, right? Because you're not going to forgive somebody who doesn't deserve it.

It's just natural. What I realized was forgiving somebody was like you taking off the shackles of yourself and just making the decision of going, I'm never going to let these people like have that control or part influence on my emotion or on my life, you know. So I think the hardest thing to learn that I learned from the forgiveness was also the most beautiful thing is like it's not for them. It's actually important for you to move forward. The second thing I also learned was it became easier when I was able to think outside

of myself too, right? So it goes like double edge sword. Yes, you got to think about yourself, of course, because, you know, that matters. But you also have to take, you have to have the, I guess, maturity to step out of yourself and go, where was I like this? So, you know, I'll give you an example. Like when it came to my father and I saw that he was, he betrayed me. He promised things, you know, to us as kids. I remember he wasn't always bad. Like there was certain times where he would try to like said he was going to take us to Universal or Disneyland and then didn't do it because he got drunk.

And I felt that betrayal. The way that I was able to think was, okay, outside of people, people doing me dirty, how many times that I betray other people? And then how many times that I betray, okay, forget other people. How many times that I betray God? Right? I'm sitting there and I'm like, Jesus, I'm going to do this and then I don't do it. Um, you know, I'm going to, I'll stop this for you and I don't stop. Then in that way, I was able to be like, whoa, the fact that my dad is still breathing. Um, the fact that he, you know, and other people who did me dirty are are still alive is proof that there's mercy there. Because if God had to destroy that person or reprimand that person, then I also would have to be reprimanded as well because I did the same thing. We're all the

same. So I think for me, it just made me, you know, yes, think about myself, but then also think outside of myself and go, man, God, like, how many times did I do you dirty? Like many, many times and I continue to. It's just part of our broken nature. And yet you don't like, send a lightning bolt and strike me down. You don't, you know, you're, you're very loving to me to still, you give me opportunities and you bless me. And so, yeah, it also had to take me to think outside of myself. And I think that's a very difficult thing that I see with a lot of people.

Is it harder to forgive yourself or forgive your dad? It was harder to forgive myself, I would say. Because I've, like, my dad, after understanding that he, had trauma that he had at 19 years old ran over somebody and took the guy's life you know his dad was an alcoholic and beat him like it was easier to go okay I get it you know I'm the same we were literally two peas in a pot what was difficult was there's times where I knew what I was doing was wrong and I still did it I think that was very difficult consciousness yeah yeah it was like I would I would be lying you know and and the one thing I I I think I've seen a

all convicts. I've been to many prisons in my life and just even now visiting is nobody talks about their crimes. Like true people who really have done dirt, they don't talk about it. And I realize it's because it brings so much shame and guilt, right? Because when you're doing something like that and you're boasting about it, I mean, you see like rappers and stuff. Like that's the cool thing to do. That's what they, their persona. but I've seen real convicts who they look completely great book smart jailhouse lawyers and look like they would never hurt a fly and you you hear like they leak a little what they did and you're like dude you're a monster you killed five people like what the hell it's like crazy

um so what i see in in that is that there's a lot of guilt and there's a lot of shame and we don't we just don't you wouldn't want to rehash or talk about those types of things so That being said, it's very difficult because the condemnation comes. You chose, you knew. And you even had a choice. You feel culpable. Yeah, exactly. And you're just like, so what?

You still did it. And I think that's the most, that was the toughest thing for me was to be like, okay, God forgave me, but like I still remember my sense. I just remember what I did. And it was very difficult. But thankful. Forgiving yourself for not forgiving yourself. yourself yet is an interesting line.

Yeah. Like I recently went and did a seven-day meditation retreat and one of the days we focused on forgiveness. It was very interesting. And the loop that they got you into because it was all high-powered Silicon Valley people, silent retreat. So, you know, we're locked in doing four, six, eight hours sits per day, you know, accumulated. A lot of time, a lot of time in silence.

And everybody wants to do it right. Everyone wants to get it right. I want to make progress. I want to show. And the, okay, today's forgiveness. I'm going to fucking forgive everybody. I'm including myself. And then you don't.

And the kind of judo throw, Uno reverse card that they suggested was, you know, you can forgive yourself for not forgiving yourself yet. Yeah. And this tiny little gesture of, all right, all right. I guess I work hard and I really want to do this thing and I haven't yet. And okay, well,

I really appreciate you trying so much. And there's just a little bit of release that's there. I wrote this thing down. I wanted to tell you one of my notes from my journal while I was away. It was the forgiveness day. It says, forgiveness is choosing to no longer suffer the things that you cannot change. It is simply to give up on the hope of changing the past. It's awfully useless to cling to the idea of altering history. We forgive to alighten ourselves.

I thought that was really nice. that idea, it's useless to cling to the idea of altering history. You can't do it. And it's just giving up on the hope of changing the past. When you see it like that, it becomes, maybe that's a bit of a productivity bro trick to kind of make it functional. But I think if you get in, you go, okay, this thing happened that I did or somebody else did or someone did to me or I did to someone else. And I can't change it. Yeah. What am I carrying? Like, what am I carrying here? Have I learned from it? Have I prostrated myself enough if I whipped myself into submission sufficiently? Right.

Okay, well, maybe I can give myself a little bit of room. And if I can't, maybe I can give myself a little bit of room about not giving myself a little bit of room. Right, right, right. And that's the gateway drug to start it to spiral. 100%. Yeah, that's deep. That's super deep.

What do you do if someone comes? So for me, I always, like, there's all this information out there, but there's very little application, right? So like practically speaking, if someone is like, you know, they come to you, Chris, or they come to me, you know, what would you say to someone who's like, hey, I want to forgive myself? I don't know how. And then let's say we say those things to them, right? It's like, oh, great, good information. But like, what, how do I now apply that to myself? Like you say, let go. People are always doing that with Christianity. They're saying, have faith. Okay, but how? How do you, how do I have faith? Teach me how. How would you answer that? I mean, making anything esoteric more conceptual, practical is hard. Yeah. I think at least something that's worked for me is inviting the parts of me that I'm not so proud of or that I wish I didn't have or thoughts from the past. Inviting them in. And this is the genre practice, the meditation that I followed for a good while and still do now. It sees you as different parts, different bits of you. Oh, there's that bit of me.

me that is frustrated that things aren't going well during this meditation sit. And I see it. And I think, huh, I know that that's annoying, but also I really appreciate that part of me that wants to do well. Like, look at how hard he's working. Okay, you come here. You bring these parts of you in. And I think that a lot of even great mindfulness practices, even go to the gym, like you're almost pushing away these parts. You're not bringing them into you. Here's a bit of me that I don't feel too good about. Sure. And if I get enough endorphins, it kind of sends him over the far side of the room.

It staves him off for a little one. Gotcha, gotcha. As opposed to being like, huh, you're here for a reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm really glad that you're here. And, hey, you're like a, you know, I had this vision in my mind. It goes to show just how fucking 20, 26 brain die am. But I had this vision in my mind that there was this part of me that wanted to do things

really well, that wanted to work incredibly hard, that wants to get it right, wants to be seen and follow the rules and do stuff. And he's like a Roomba, you know, one of those robot vacuons. But he's just overly enthusiastic. And he's going around, fucking like, get stuck in corners, bouncing up against stuff. He's cleaning an area. He's already cleaned 20 times before. And I was like, he's trying so hard.

I really, really appreciate how hard he's trying. Come here. Like, you can come in and be a part of that. So I think offering a little bit of gratitude to that part of you, thank you for being here. I see that you're trying hard. I don't need you right now, but I appreciate that you're here anyway and come in. And that, to me, completely non-theological, but at least practically, it's worked a bit. Yeah, so like acknowledgement,

essentially, acknowledging and instead of avoiding and 100%. Seeing it. Thank you for being here. Yeah. Gratitude, I always say, like, affects the attitude and it's true. I think in Christianity, it's the same. A lot of people say they're Christian, but then, like, when I look at them, they're not grateful for a lot of things. And it's, like, unfortunate, um, And I can speak on that space because I'm in that space. It's like, yeah, I, I'm grateful when I'm blessed. You know, they kind of transactionalize these things, right? Well, I prayed to God and I pushed F3 and then vending machine, you know,

underneath the blessing should come. So I think it's important to definitely religious, religion aside, Christianity aside, to be, like, thankful. And I think the way that helps me be thankful, similar to what you're saying is to think about the things as like, objectively. Okay, there's a reason why this is here. And it's easier for us being Christian, I think, only because we can go, God could snap his fingers and remove these things. Why is he allowing this to stay here? If he's almighty and all powerful. Yes. It's like he's almighty, he's all

powerful. What is the purpose behind this, right? What is his will? And then you kind of feel the piece of like, huh, there's a lesson. What I say is there's either a lesson or a blessing. He's either going to teach us something, which all is a blessing at the end of the day, because you're, you're going to gain those things. And yeah, it just helps in so many ways. You know, it's difficult, I guess, where I see it is when someone doesn't believe, then it's harder to articulate that aspect of it. Because you're the only person who's got their hand on the rudder.

Exactly. You're the only one that's steering. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Why was it so scary going back into prisons? I think it was the pride. Just how they would see me. And especially because that first prison was like my alma mater.

It was the one I was at. Yeah. So going back to the spot that I was at where everyone knows. How long was? The stretch was only, I was out three years, two years, two and a half years. So there's still tons of people in there that would have known you. Most of them? Most of them.

That's how it was. It's like a homecoming, a welcoming party, right? What was that like? Driving back the riding? Yeah, I straight up had a panic attack. So I remember, you know, my pastor's like, hey, Johnny, you went through this crazy stuff in life. He showed me Revelation 1211. He said, you know, we overcome by the blood of the lamb in the word of our testimony, meaning you can help people overcome with Jesus and or your testimony.

And I'm like, dang, I got to talk about my story. Like, oh my gosh, like how detailed do I have to be? Like some of this stuff is cold cases and, you know, oh, you know, like, what am I doing here, right? Am I going to end up back in prison? and so I tried to because up until then he's led me just changed my life completely. You know, transformed me a lot. And so, yeah, I remember he goes, we got a contract with this prison. And it was a prison that I was at.

And I was like, oh my gosh. Like, I'll go to any other prison except for that one. But at that time, this was like, you know, just very, like the prisons were not allowing volunteers to really come in. It was very difficult. But we got it. And it just so happened to be that prison and only that prison. So I, you know, I say okay to pastor, but as the days, it was just a week before, I get to the day of an full on panic attack. Oh, the homies are in there. One of my homies is still, like my cellmate's still in there. Like, they've seen me crack off riots. And now I'm in here like, Jesus can help you too.

It's like I feels fraudulent. And I was just like, nah. And then I started getting mad. Like I realized when I get scared, I get angry, right? When I get sad, I get angry. It's just this thing of like anger at the end of it. So I just remember like blowing up pastor like and then he wasn't picking up. And I'm like, okay, me being a man of my word is very big to me.

I told him yes. I'm panicking. All right, let me try this prayer thing. You know, I'll pray and I'm driving to. the prisons and I'm with my friend. He's, he's a minister at this time. He's a pastor now, but it was a minister. And he's like, Johnny, it's okay, you know, again. He's never lived that life, never, you know, and he's, I'm like, don't say nothing, bro. Like, you don't understand. I'm like, popping off on him. Um, we get there and I see the COs. I see, and I'm like,

I turned me back. Did they know that it was you that was coming? Of course. Right. Yeah, yeah. But because you have to, you know, you have to submit your information before that. And I see them. and then I'm just like, bro, we don't even make it to the gate, bro. I'm like, turn around. And then he's just like, what? Are you serious? We drove like almost two hours. I turned the F around, like cussing.

And he's like, oh, and he calls and he's blowing up pastor. And then he calls Pastor's wife and Pastor's wife with Pastor, gives him the phone. And he's like, Pastor, you know, Johnny's not listening. And he's just pissed. And I'm like, I don't get what F, you know. And then I pick up the phone. And he's like, can I talk to Johnny? And it picks up the phone.

And he goes, Johnny, what's going on? I said, Pastor, I don't want to do this. If I have to leave religion and I will denounce Christianity, if you're making me do this, this is too much of a cross for me to bear. It's too much. And Pastor goes, he just laughs. And I'm like, what the hell? And he goes, you know what's funny?

And I enraged at this point, period. What's funny? Like, what are you talking about? You're not the one going in, you know? You don't have this compound. to trauma. And he goes, think back to when you did drugs. Think back to when you rob people. Did you ever have a thought of like, I shouldn't be doing this? I should never do this. What the hell is wrong with me? And I thought about it. And I was like, no. He's like, would you get this

angry if like you, you know, would do drugs? He'd probably be very happy. Yeah. He goes, don't you think it's kind of funny that now that you're trying to do the work of God, you're trying to go there and actually potentially help people, all of a sudden you're getting attacked this way. And I think through that, he taught me the lesson of spiritual warfare. He's like, when you're trying to do good, there's always evil in there, right? It says it in Romans 7, he said, verse 18, 19. And he's like, so you, Johnny, like, I think the enemy is threatened by what you're going to do. I think, you know, if you just walk and take a step, I think it'll, you'll, again, just like with your father, when you're having a panic attack with him and you were stressed out and you weren't sure,

I think, you know, you can experience that, right? And this is a good chance and a good opportunity for you to walk by faith because it doesn't make sense. Yeah, why would I be so insensitive? That's what your thoughts are telling you. But I want you to learn how to experience God, how to grow with God and how to like walk forward and break this, you know? And it may, again, Again, it made sense. And I'm like, but it didn't make it easier, right? And being honest, I'm like, I, yeah, I'm not going to do that. But him saying that, it took me another week of processing it, of going, he's wrong,

but he's right. But it was like this internal struggle, right? So you didn't go in? I didn't. I didn't. I didn't. And so, yeah. And I was waiting for him to, like, almost waiting for him to pop off on me so I can utilize

that as an excuse to leave. because I was a runner too in that way where I'm like, I'm not going to face this, I'm out. This Christian life stuff is too hard for me, you know? Fast forward a week. It's fascinating saying that as someone that was inside for 13 years. Christianity's too hard prison for a decade and a half. Exactly.

Crazy. But he, you know, after processing what he said, I was truly able to see like, man, he's right. Like, as much as I'm being mad and frustrated and being immature, like he is right so i went back and i did talk to him again and he's like johnny you don't have to go i just want you to understand like i just i'm only challenging you up because i'm calling you up right and it's kind of like again like working out you know you you can't just be lifting five pounds like you got to grow bro and he's like and i it's because i love you i care about you and so i'm like

okay you know try again same thing happened driving over there panic attack. But this time, I just remember his voice, like just listening to what he was saying and repeating it in my head. Like, the enemy wants to do something and, you know, you don't see it. But when was he ever wrong? Like, you listen to this dude and things changed. Your life has changed.

You haven't been back to prison. And that's what also flipped my mindset was like, dude, I'm two years and a half out of prison. Like, the homie didn't even make it six months. the Muslim guy. Whoa. And then it started to just register to me. And I'm like, huh. Okay. And it gave me a little bit of that boost of confidence, I guess, that I needed. And then I get in there and you get there. And I see, we're walking towards the yard. And it's my homie who's doing life without parole. What's so? He says my name, which is my AKA. He doesn't call me Johnny. He says my, you know, street name. What's up, bro? And I'm like, oh my God. And I'm like immediately like embarrassed as hell, you know.

and then the guy next to me he's like again not living that lifestyle he's like why did he call you like ill like like mentally ill right and he's like why did he call you i was like long story you know that's what they call me and he's like he didn't understand it so we're just it was just weird right i'm walking through i meet another dude he's like what's a homie hey you made it out like what are you doing and he's seen the visitor batch and he's like you're doing like where let me sign up and he was It was just like this little bit of like being cool. And I'm like, okay, but I'm making excuses still. Those are the homies.

They're going to support me, whatever. I get in here and it's random people. In that class, I don't know any of these people. They're just random, you know, level two, level four, level three people. And, you know, when they walk in, they just, I like stick out like a sore thumb because this dude's like square, no tattoos, spotless, you know, Korean guy, broken English, you know. And then there's me just like blasted like this. And they're just like come up to me.

And I'm like, hey guys, how you doing? You know? And I'm trying to speak proper. And then I'm like, can I share my testimony with you guys? And they're like, yeah, for sure. And I grew up here and I just tell the whole story. Like I told you more in detail, of course. And they just kind of get blown away.

Like, hey, that emptiness that I felt, you know, at the end of it, they come up to me. And they're like shaking my hand. not only are they shaking my hand, they're telling, they're being vulnerable. Yo, bro, I felt that emptiness. Last night, when you said one thought turns into 10, like I was literally doing that, bro. I was about to kill myself. And I don't know, maybe it's God. Does God really work for you?

Like, they're like asking me these things. And so, you know, we end up leaving. There's 75 people in that class. We end up leaving. I remember going to the car and I just break down. I think that's the first time I started really bawling, like aside from my dad, where I'm like, oh my gosh, again, pastors, right? Like, how is it that?

Like, I would have never experienced that. It would have never lit up like a fire in me. It wouldn't. It was almost like I found a purpose in some way, right? Up until that point, it was like, yeah, I'm broken and God's great. but like what what do we go from here you know and it was like whoa i guess this is prison ministry like it makes sense i went through all of this god's not going to not use it he's going to utilize it and um from then on i just continue to go to the prisons and then i would see people change we would have

Muslims we would have buddists in our class we'd have atheists agnostic whoever they would come and then they would be changed and and even if they didn't agree someone would be like okay we don't know about all this god stuff but that emptiness that you're talking about i felt that anxiety, that depression, I felt. How do you get over that? Okay, I'll try to distrust my thoughts. Maybe not follow myself so much. And let's see how that works.

And they changed. It was beautiful, bro. What do you think 12-year-old Johnny would think if he could see you now? Oh my gosh, bro. That's a great question. I think I wouldn't, if the 12-year-old me wouldn't obviously believe and would probably just be like, whoa, you're famous. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, that's it. Like, whoa, you're famous, dude. Awesome. Sick tattoos. Nice YouTube channel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dope YouTube. Can I get on?

You know, like, but truthfully too, also, I don't think I would understand. I think at that time, it wasn't that I was unreachable, but I just think that my mind was so set on, like, looking up to somebody. Yeah, if I had someone like me who understood at that moment, I don't. wouldn't end up the way I was for sure. But if I didn't even know that, like, I didn't know that people like this existed. I was just very like gang members, they're the, they're the top dogs. You have to be that. And so I think I probably would have thought I was lame. Like in a way, like he's cool, he's famous. But as soon as you say the Christian's up, oh, cool, bro. Like,

it's just, I think that's, if I'm being honest. You're not aggressive enough. You're not hard enough. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, I think I had to go through all of that to recognize that. You know, I've seen so many people that are like me, super peaceful. And people come up to me, bro, like, you really were you locked up? Really? You did that? Like, you don't even have those tendencies. But I don't think they understand, like, the chaos I've been through. That's why. And I think at a point, you do get to this point where you just want, like, serenity and you just want, like, happiness and peace. So you do end up just being chill. You can't enjoy any of it if you don't have peace, too.

100%. There is no, I'm fortunate enough to have been around, you know, some of the richest, most well-known, high-status people on the planet. Yeah. There is no amount of socioeconomic or follow-account escape velocity that can outstrip an unpeaceful life. Like if you go to bed on a night time and you don't have peace, And that's not to say that you are supposed to have peace for the entirety of your life.

Like, shit's going to happen. It's very good if you can fucking grip the bar, rip it off the floor, fix the problem, all that stuff. But there is no out accelerating an unpeaceful life, especially a chronic unpeaceful life. So, like, what are you, what is all of this for? What is all of this for if you achieve everything that you want and you can't lay your head on a pillow and not be worrying about things? Yeah. Like what is that? The price that you're paying is not worth what you're getting in return. So true. So true. Yeah. I think that's the one thing that changed my life was to see my mom, right?

I think that's what kind of opened the door to me even wanting to talk with my pastor is she was still with my dad who was drunk beating her. Not as much. It kind of, the beatings kind of got better. But still here and there. And then having two kids. Not just me, but my brother doing time too. And then me at this time making 40, 50K, not saved, you know, selling drugs, having 45 on my waistband. Like, for her to still be like, I'm happy. Like, I couldn't understand it. Like, I just looked at my mom and I was like,

I know and I've seen her have the thousand yards stare and be the broken person and have that emptiness. to be like, no, God is good. And she would say crazy things, bro. She would be like, your father is the world's best husband. And I was like, oh, Johnny, you're going to be a gospel preacher one day and the world's best gospel preacher. She's like, kept using this world's best stuff, right?

And I'm like, and mom, you're schizophrenic. You know, like, straight on. And we're taking you off to a facility. Yeah, literally, right? You need the stray jacket. But it's like, I didn't understand it. But what I can't deny was that. that when she said it, the conviction she had, the confidence, and the peace.

And I'm like, dang. And then it kind of turned out that way. My dad is so much better. It's so weird, bro. Asians, they're just not, like, affectionate. So, like, there's times where I'll go visit them and just pop up, like, surprise them. And I'll see my dad and my mom cuddling on the couch, like, watching TV. And I'm like, ill.

Like, what the heck? I think that's an Asian thing. I think that's an ever. Everyone's got like a little like, put it away. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They'll hold hands and then when my dad sees me, like, throws her hand on the side and I'm just like, Pops, I caught you slipping, pop. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's just, I'm not gay. I promise I'm not gay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's just, it's weird to see that dynamic. And it all stemmed from my mom's faith and her peace and her belief system, which my brother's saved now. It's kind of wild. So your mom is kind of the savior at the top of the Avalan. 100%.

It was her solo, Dolo, Asian, you know, in a traditionally Buddhist. household to be like, yeah, I'm going to introduce some peace and some Jesus. And I'm like, you're crazy to like now we're all crazy, I guess. You know, it's like, but it's just, it's beautiful. You know, what peace can do to your point. How, like, what I say is like the way you carry yourself is like a sermon, right? Like I could preach all day, a bomb sermon and then be like doing drugs at night. It's just the actions don't match. Right. And so I guess I just want to encourage people to understand that like the way you care yourself is very important. You can talk about peace all day and talk about grinding and, you know,

productivity and things like that. But if a person, I guess what I'm always looking for is like, can I represent and reflect Jesus and peace and love? Because what, what's the point to your point? What's the point of life if you can't really have people, inspire people, help people and all that? Like, what, I'm a Christian. This is my story.

It's great. Like, no, I want to be able to inspire and help. help others too. Yeah. Going to get the best, dude. Thank you. You're absolutely rural. Appreciate you, bro. Really fantastic. Where should people go? I know you've got so much stuff going on. Yeah. Should people go to check out more of your tour? Um, so we have an app on the app store. It's called Corridor Daily. It's my 10 years of teachings, my secret notes, everything,

um, placed into that. It's available on any app store, a play store. It's free. Um, and yeah, it starts with the devotional. Um, and then you guys can find me on all social media platforms Johnny Chang Live, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. And I stream live where I do these Q&As. A lot of people come up. Why does God allow babies to die in these hard questions? I like answering them. So you guys can find me there too.

Appreciate you, man. Until next time. Thank you, good sir. Goodbye, everyone. All right. Dude. Yeah. Thank you, bro.

You roll. Two and five Canadians will hear the words you have cancer. That's why every step and dollar raised matters. On September 19th, join thousands in Toronto for the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation Walk. Challenge yourself, friends, and family to walk 21 kilometers in support of life-saving research. Together, we can carry the fire and help create a world free from the fear of cancer. Register today at pmcfwalk.ca.ca.