PHLY Philadelphia Eagles Podcast - Is This THE END for Eagles and A.J. Brown Saga? | PHLY Eagles Podcast

Episode Date: May 29, 2026

With June 1 fast approaching and trade rumors picking back up, is this the final weekend that A.J. Brown spends as a member of the Philadelphia Eagles? Bo Wulf and EJ Smith discuss the latest rumblings surrounding the star wide receiver, unpack the first few days of OTA practices, and discuss how Joe Kasper and Clint Hurtt are working to fortify what could be one of the best defenses in the NFL under Vic Fangio. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello everybody and welcome to the P-H-L-Y Eagles podcast on a Friday afternoon, a beautiful Friday afternoon. Let's head into the weekend, live from the X-Finity Lounge and presented by our friends at Ashley Bo-Wolf. And look who's back. Back again. Edward James Smith. Not my name, but it is good to be back. I actually am a little bit embarrassed about like the feeling of joy that watched over me as I heard the song and I'm in the studio. I'm with my people. It feels good.

Showing thigh. Always. It was a good, it was a good vacation. Had a really nice time with my in-laws. I appreciate you holding down the fort. And it is good to be back. Shout out to D-Money.

Shout out to Carla. My mother-in-law can plan a vacation now. Oh, man. She can plan a vacation. It was a good time. I know a vacation hate to see her coming. I think that's accurate. But it's good to be back.

I got some Eagles takes to unload. I've been watching the show. I listened on two times. speed and I almost drove my car off the road over a couple of things. So I'm excited to get into it. Why? Because I was so outraged. Like we were pretty tame. Yeah, no, it's not as bad as the thing with Fran a few weeks ago. I'm ready to put it to bed. It's all good. But yeah, you know, a lot of Eagles news happening. It was good to, it was good to listen to you guys. All right. Let's start with AJ because we enter the weekend. When we come back, it'll be Monday, June 1st.

Yeah. Now, we will be at the Brian Dawkins golf event on Monday. We will. Doing a little remote show. Things cannot officially happen until 4 o'clock on Monday, but these could be the last hours, the last days of potentially the best Eagles wide receiver of all time being on the Eagles. How do you feel about it? How is it sitting in your stomach?

Yeah, it's interesting because we've waited so long for June 1st to come. And now that it's getting closer, I am feeling more like retrospective about AJ's tenure with the team and, you know, just thinking a lot about the path that led us here. But to focus on like what's to come for a minute here. I am expecting that AJ Brown will be a member of the Patriots. Let's call it by next Wednesday. Let's talk about this first. Let's do the prediction game. Sure.

You think Wednesday Patriots? I think Wednesday Patriots. For what? A 2028 first round pick. That's it, straight up. Yeah, I'm going to guess that's it. I think the fact that you're hearing some like, oh, you know, other teams might get involved.

You know, this could linger. My guess is that's Hallie Roseman saying, if you're going to call, now it's the time to call. And do you think there's any chance that it lasts beyond next week? I do. You one minute? So in my notes, I've got the three windows I think we have here. Do you like to hear that?

Sure. Okay. I think the first window, not to be alarmist, I'm not saying I think this is going to happen. I do think the first window opens about tonight. I think an official trade, no. Like, I don't think it's going to be an official trade, but I do think we saw it with the Bryce Huff deal a year ago

where the Eagles can agree to terms on a deal and the trade will become official after June 1st. I know that you have some skepticism on whether or not the league would be okay with that. I think that's fair. It's a high-profile trade, and it's obvious that they've been waiting until after June 1. Maybe they don't.

Maybe the NFL wouldn't be okay with the Eagles agreeing to terms as early. but there is precedent at the very least that you could agree to terms on a Saturday, and then the trade becomes official 4 p.m. on Monday. So I don't think it's going to happen, but I think there's been so much. I think it's okay to say that that's a possibility here. Pussy footing around this the whole time. I know.

Purposefully. Purposeful pussy footing. PPF? Because they want to really be like, oh, listen, this thing came together, you know, June 1st. We had conversations. We knew where we stood, but like this actually. didn't happen until after June 1st.

So I would be surprised by that. Yeah, I think that's fair. But I do think that's the first window, not one that I think is likely. But I think the second window is probably late Monday to Wednesday. I think Tuesday and Wednesday are the days that I'm really looking at, wondering if that's the day it's going to happen. And to me, what that tells you is that the Eagles and Patriots have had compensation worked

out for a long time, which is what I think most of us expect. And if that is the case, I think that this deal goes through. let's call it Tuesday evening. Sorry, Fran. I know that that's tough for the birthday. But yeah, that's my guess. Maybe Tuesday evening is that second window and probably the most likely. Now, here's the thing that people should know.

Likely, Tuesday is the next day that the media will be at the Eagles facility for OTA is. I would be surprised if they want it to land on the day that other people have to talk. Yes. And my other guess is that even though he's not required. to when this trade gets made eventually, howie will be available, because he wants to be the one to speak for it and not have Nick have to answer for it during minicamp or whatever.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you that I think Howie Rosemont will want to have his say at the end of this. And I think if you're looking at it from an objective standpoint, it would be fair to Nick or kind to Nick maybe. It'd be kind in fairness to Nick to say, I don't want you to be the one that has to answer for this.

So if that is the case, then Wednesday is in play. Now, the question that I think is the operative question when you look at Wednesday is, is the compensation going to be good enough for the Eagles to pull the trigger on Wednesday? Because if it's modest compensation, I think the Eagles, the track record that we know from this team, it'll be a Friday news dump. It'll be a vague, you know, the kids always talk about the vague post. It'll be a vague post, like a future first round pick. Don't worry about what year it's in.

or don't worry about, you know, if it's a conditional. Let's, I think there'll be some, some vagueness to the initial reporting if it is less than what you expect the Eagles to get for AJ Brown. I don't think there's a lot of ifs left. I think this thing is done. I think it gets announced next week. Yeah. I think it's, we're talking through the range of outcomes here, though.

I think they already know what it is. Yeah. My guess is it's a 2028 first and something else. Oh, you think they're going to get like a 27 fourth that could become a third or something like that? Sure. Okay. Or 27 second,

second, or third or something like that. Okay. Do you want to talk about the last unlikely window I have here? Okay. What if this drags out?

What if this is, AJ Brown's at mandatory minicamp? And it's nothing to see here. AJ can come back. You know, everything's fine, you know? If you're not going to pay our price,

we'll just keep him. I have seen this, uh, presupposed. Yeah. This possibility? it's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. I'm not saying he couldn't be,

I'm not saying it's possible he doesn't get traded by then, but did it, he's going to show up at mandatory minicamp and they're going to pretend that he's part of the team. What world are you living in? I tend to agree with you. Did you hear Jalen Hertz talk about it yesterday? In the past tense, yeah. It's done. He's gone.

I have some things I want to say about the Jalen and AJ of it all later. But yeah, I think that that possibility is an important one for the Eagles to hold space for. because it gives them leverage. If it's done, it's done. But if they think, you know, let's try to get more out of this. If all of a sudden they're not getting what they expect to get, they don't have to make a trade.

They can be waiting. Yeah. But that's not going to happen. I think overall, the bottom line, I think we both expect this to happen early to mid, midway through next week. And I think it's going to be the Patriots. I think it's a 28-1.

We'll see if there's more attached to it. I'm guessing. I'm expecting just a touch more. Okay, I think that's fair. I also, this is the thing that we've talked about. There is a clear agreement here between the parties involved, between A.J. and the Eagles, right?

If this thing lasts longer than A.J. expects it to, all of a sudden he doesn't have to play nice anymore. Yeah, but to say, like, all help can break loose there. Yeah, which, as I've gotten retrospective about this, It's just been so long since we've heard from AJ, which has led to a lot of people filling in the blanks for him. That's usually, like, if I were to advise athletes, I would say, like, your silence,

like people will, you know, interpret that silence, how they want to interpret it. And I think that that's happened to a large degree. So, but to your point, like, I think the next time we hear from AJ, it'll be at an introductory press conference with the New England Patriots. I think that's probably right. Yeah.

Or maybe he'll be a lot of the last year. they'll get on with Jankey before that. Shout out, Jankey. Shout out, Jankey. Yeah, so we'll see. We will see. How do you feel about like AJ's legacy

in all of this, how this affects that long term? We had a conversation that you guys will see in a couple weeks. Yesterday with Cuzz and Tim McManus and Fran about like ranking the best eagles of the century. Obviously, AJ is on that list.

You know, responsible for the best stretch of play for any wide receiver in franchise history. But the way that it ends, how does that affect how you feel about him? Honestly, it doesn't affect it too much. And I think that that was, I think that's one of the things I liked about Jalen's answer is as AJ is on his way out of Philadelphia,

I think it's okay. Obviously, fans are going to be disappointed that he's leaving, but I think it's also okay to acknowledge the fact that, like, he's a champion with the Philadelphia Eagles. You know, he accomplished something very special with this team and was, I don't think you can call him the driving force behind this offense, but he was a key cog in the machine during his tenure. Obviously, like you mentioned, did something that no other receiver in Eagles history

had ever achieved. So to me, you can separate it. You can be frustrated that it ended the way that it ended. You can be frustrated with the way that last season happened. I do think that last season for AJ does really, like, affect his long-term perception as an eagle. Like, is he going to retire a member of the Eagles at this point? No. It's hard to envision that, right?

So I do think that it's colored by the way that it ended, but you still have to appreciate what he was able to do with this team. He's been, like, we've watched every game, and a lot of the sickos have watched every game. I don't think I would have taken another receiver in the NFL over AJ Brown the last three seasons. I guess the separating last year. Separating last year, the two years before, I think he was the best receiver in football. And for that, I think you can appreciate him. We don't need to split hairs on, you know,

if it's him or Justin Jefferson or Jamar Chase. To me, the thing that makes AJ special in comparison to those guys is not to say that those other guys don't win, like, just relentlessly all the time too, but the physicality to AJ's game, the make something out of nothing in AJ's game. Like you don't, not only do you not have to scheme things for AJ,

not only do not have to scheme for AJ, like they weren't. You mix up for the absence of a scheme. Yeah, but say they weren't scheming for AJ. It's just, you know, like it was an RPO heavy offense in 2022, and AJ was just the easy button. You know,

the slant route to AJ was anytime you needed it, that was there for you. So I think the dominance of his game makes me feel good about calling him the best receiver in that 22 to 24 stretch. Okay. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back. You have some thoughts on the Jailen, AJ, dynamic.

I do. Yeah. We'll find out what that is. And then we'll get into some more Eagles talk potentially about what the, some of the assistant coaches had to say yesterday. What if, what if you could have reliable and intelligent Wi-Fi? And what if you could keep it at the same price for five whole year? Count them.

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Oh, yeah? Yeah, you like this guy. I haven't seen him play yet. I got to check them out. I'm late to the game. Yeah? Is that your kind of player? Yeah, I mean, I just, I like the excitement of a new guy, a young guy.

Yeah, I get that. Brazilian, too? Does he have some flair? A little bit. Okay, I like that. You know, like a Brazilian? Oh, I mean, who, what's not to love? I agree.

That's all the Brazilians out there. Shut up. What do you think, what's your, what do you have in the holster on Jalen and AJ that you're holding back? So I found Jalen's answer on A.J. Very interesting. I found Jalen's press conference. in general, very interesting.

Oh, fantastic. We can get to that later. We can get to that later. Oh, okay. So the thing that as I was driving home, you know, my reporter brain gets to, gets moving here. And I'm like envisioning this weird scenario where like A.J. Brown has an impromptu press conference like Terralow in style, right? And I can ask him a question. And it's like, what question do I want to ask him?

And I'm thinking about all of your great coverage over the last few days and about the, the, the positive sentiment, the optimism around the Eagles offense, and how obviously there are multiple layers that explain why AJ wants to leave Philadelphia, but a big part of it is the way the offense looked last year. And there's a lot of optimism around. The offense looking significantly different, almost as different as it can look next year. How does that not change AJ Brown's calculus at all? And I think I know the answer, but I want to, I want to hear it from him because my my guess on the answer is he doesn't believe that the Eagles offense can change with Jalen Hertz at the center of it. I think he has been through enough experiences with new offensive

coordinators and a need to improve the passing game with Jalen at the center that he's not willing to stick around and find out if this is the year that it all is going to look the way that he wanted it to look all along. And I'll be honest with you. I don't know if he's right if that's his calculus. I don't know if I agree with that sentiment based off of what we've learned in the last week. I think two things about that sentiment. It's a good thought. One is that I do think it goes beyond just the schematics. I think there's clearly something else. Yeah, that is fair. Personal from AJ's vantage point. I also think you are, the Eagles have agency here too. And I think we are discounting the possibility that the Eagles themselves,

certainly we know that a big portion of the locker room likes AJ a lot. But the way that AJ handled last season on the field in particular could have been something that he could not come back from as far as the Eagles were concerned. Yeah. If they cannot rely on him, even if this is going to be a new difference, an offense that looks different and he's having a great season but something else triggers him along the way

and they can't rely on him again maybe they don't want to be a part of that anymore. Yeah, it's funny. It's possible. Do you remember we argued about whether amicable was the right word for this divorce between A.J. Brown and the Eagles.

I think how you just framed it is how I meant it. And I think amicable being the word where it's like both sides are happy with it. No, I think what you just said is correct. I think like what has been underrepresented in the conversation around AJ Brown the last few months, is that the Eagles clearly have a comfortability moving him on.

And I think, like, we can get into the weeds on whether that's because he's regressed as a player or whether what you just alluded to, which is the impact it has on the team, the way that he handled last year, maybe that being a bigger part of the equation. But I do think that,

like, the Eagles, like willingness and the Eagles, like, skepticism about the AJ Brown experience moving forward, has maybe been a little bit overshadowed by the notion. And again, a notion that has been informed and fed by the fact that AJ hasn't spoken,

that AJ is forcing his way out. I think that the Eagles, it's not like the Eagles are like, you know, powerless in this whole thing. You know what I mean? I agree. Now, can I, can you indulge me here for a minute?

I want to get back to the AJ and the Jalen dynamic here. Okay. And this is tinfoil hat, okay? Jaylen's comments on the offense were a significant departure from what we've heard from him every year when he has to learn a new system. Obviously, like, the Kevin Petulow answers from last year have been circulated in comparison. Even two years ago, like when he talked about the Kellyn Morris game change,

95% new, not everybody's the quarterback, you know, he clearly, I don't know, I mean, I can't get inside Jaylen's head as much as sometimes I wish I could like understand exactly where he's coming from. but I would go so far as saying, like, usually when he's talking about learning a new scheme at this point in the offseason, he's like overwhelmed or like burdened by it. And you can kind of read that in his answers. This year he's invigorated. He's energized.

And this is the offense is going to ask him to change the most. Yeah. And he is like, I'm excited to learn a new brand of football. He's got answers to all my questions. Do you think, I'm putting the tinfoil on, do you think like Jalen has read this the same way I have? where it's like, AJ doesn't think I can change. I will show him, I'll change. This is going to be a new Jalen Hertz in 2026.

I will show A.J. Brown. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's a little bit like this new version of Jalen. Could this new version of Jalen be born out of A.J. being like, I don't think you can do this. That's a fun thought. I would be surprised if that is his motivating factor. But that could be a part of it.

Jalen loves people doubting him. Like, if part of this, he, for AJ is like Jalen can't, Jalen can't be a part of like an offense that does the things I want an offense to do. Jalen can't be the engine behind. Well, I don't think this is the offense that A.J. Brown wants.

I mean, it's an offense that would be built in part for him, you know? It's an offense that it's going to get him the ball in space running at defenders. I think AJ's scheme agnostic to a certain extent, but no, I think that, I think he, at the very least, looks at the U.S. past game the last two years. They won the Super Bowl, so it's weird to say this, but looks at the Eagles past

game and is like, eh, like, this has been broken for two years with Jalen at the center of it. It all, the common denominator is Jalen, I don't want to be here for this anymore. Maybe this is the motivation Jalen needs. Maybe this is like, all right, you know what, get me under center. I'm throwing over the middle of the field. I'm going to get my footwork, you know, lined up with the timing and anticipation throws. I don't know. It's a fun theory at the very at least. I'm not saying I think it's like a slam dunk, but as I thought this through, it's like, maybe these things are more related than we think. I thought you were going more that this is a version of Jalen that is unburdened by having to worry about cowtowing to A.J.

And it's just, this is a relief for him to be away from that drama. I like that. And now he gets to just be the quarterback again. Yeah. It's like, you know, one less mouth to feed. It's like, yeah, I, okay, I could see that. unburdened by like, okay, like, you know, yeah, I got to get, I got to, I got to get him his touches or else he's going to go on a freaking stream again. How about I just throw the ball where it's supposed to go? Yeah, yeah. That could be part of it.

But like, it can be both, though, you know, because it's like unburdened by the constant, I've got these two alphas on the outside and they both are going to want the ball every single play. But also, one of them wanted to leave because he didn't think I could do that. And now I'm going to show them. I'm going to show them that I can. It's a fun, it's a fun subplot. I like that.

Because Jaylen's answers to me were staggering. And, Lindsay, we can do this now. I would like to run a clip here about the Jaylen Hurts press conference. Maybe some people were eagerly anticipating it. And then others were poo-pooing the idea that it might be important to hear from the franchise quarterback talk about the new offensive system. what are you most looking forward to seeing next week I'm going to zag

I don't want to see it I want to hear what Jalen Hertz has to say about Sean Mannion and in particular the notion I think it'll be very interesting to hear from Jalen Hertz addressing a narrative that I am certain he is aware of

which is that he is going to have to change with this new offense I'm very curious to hear if he's embracing that change publicly, if he's pushing back on the idea that he will have to change, I think it would be totally understandable. Like we talked about this last night,

like I think it'd be totally understandable if he was defensive almost, you know, saying like, I've won a lot of games. I've been a very successful quarterback in the NFL and now people are asking me about, you know, like, can you do this? Can you acquiesce to this system? I understand that from his perspective,

but I think we also can look at it objectively, look at it from the situation, the organization has put Jalen Hertz in, he is going to have to change, and I'm curious to hear what he has to say about that. Okay. I mean, we get to see them on the field. The first thing you're looking forward to is a press conference.

Come on. Yeah, because, get a football guy. Guess what? Guess what? I mean, we're going to talk about a lot of stuff in the field, but a lot of stuff that happens on that field isn't really going to move the needle for what happens in the Eagle season. You know what will move the needle?

Our first indication on how Jalen Hertz is feeling about how everything is going internally right now. necessarily. Oh, what do you mean not necessarily? I mean, we'll talk about it, but I don't really agree that it will matter more. It will be a window into Jalen Hertz's psyche, his mentality, and how he's feeling going into the season. I'd argue that that's very important. So you might be, so you see the clip from last Friday. And you know, you might, you can imagine my surprise when my co-host is like going on a media tour talking about Jalen Hertz's press conference. Oh my God, I felt so much better about the Eagles offense after hearing from Jalen Hertz.

He was on Anthony's show. He's on this show. The whole show is about how they're BFS, him and Sean Vanyan. I was like, wait a minute. I remember the poo-pooing I got when I suggested this might be significant. Doing a show that I'm contractually obligated to do. No, it was a media tour. You were all over the place.

I couldn't escape it. That's your problem. You should not have been on social media when you're on vacation. That's a U-S. did off Twitter listen I don't remember that at all anything any past show as far as I'm concerned

is vapor I don't even know I don't know I'm wary of whether or not that's AI deep fake it's not a deep fake no it's not a AI slop Dendorites I got you I was like

I already talked about that before like and agreed that it was going to be interesting what Jailman had said you said it wasn't going to move the needle I know but I think that that part of that was because we had already talked about it.

Yeah, but I think it was very important to hear what Jalen said. And I think what he said made it even more important. But it was also in the context of what we had seen on the field. No, it was really in the context of Jalen being 100% commit. Like, I am embracing this system. I am excited to learn a new brand of football. I mean, we don't need to keep running the tape because it's just going to get worse and worse for you. But the whole show yesterday, I'm listening to it.

And I'm like, man, I remember when you were like, oh, this is your first pick. Yeah, yeah, we're going to see things on the field. I think it's important. Some of us like to watch football. Some of us like to watch press football. Some of us have a really good finger on the pulse of what's going to move the needle in the Eagles fandom and the zeitgeist, as it were. And, you know, it's okay. That's what makes us good co-host.

You know, I'm here to, I'm here to look out for your blind spots. Outrageous. We're going to break. See you later. Lindsay's like, no, Beau, you got to sit in this. There's no saving you. Let me tell you about our friends at Parks Casino. That's right.

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Invigorated by getting time off, off the hamster wheel of having to do a show every single day. Yeah. You know, again, in quality time with the family, you're going to try and guilt trip me? Yeah. I'll remember this. What a gift.

What a gift to be able to get some time away to refresh and think about ideas. I was so excited to get back, though. You know, doesn't that tell you what you need to know about how much I love doing the show? I do. Okay. I was like, I texted you. I said, I miss you. You said, get a life.

Then I said, I love you too. You did. I wanted to make it, make it more inflammatory from you. So, I've got something for you here. I have five moments. that got us to this point with AJ Brown. Okay. Maybe we'll have a video out where we kind of go through the path that led

AJ Brown out of Philadelphia. Okay. So I picked out the five. I feel pretty good about the five, but I want to know what you think. Now keep in mind, like this is through the prism of like storytelling. So there is an ability to like go back.

Keep in mind. This is through the prism of storytelling. Well, I'm just, I want you to know that like it's like I'm not starting it. AJ Brown gets traded to the Eagles. Like, I'm going to start with the first moment where it's like, okay, we can look back from here. Okay? So.

Yes, I understand how stories work. We're going to change your title. Do you know. Storytelling. Do you know how stories work? Because I told you what was going to be the biggest story out of OTAs and you, you'd poo-poot it. You just, you hand-waved it. So, you know, just trying to keep you.

I'm a professor, a teacher at heart. Let's see you do the rest of the show by yourself. Let's see how that goes. All right, first moment, I had A.J. Brown answering, what is the issue with the offense passing after the game against the Panthers? A game they won, even though it really felt like a loss in the moment. He gave them a chance to win the game. Xavier Legate.

Gifts the Eagles to win. A.J. Brown frustrated afterward. I think that was the first time that, like, the A.J. frustrations on the sideline felt like that could actually amount to something serious, you know? Like, I think we knew that he was, he was like prone to a sideline flare-up, but this one felt, I don't know, in hindsight, it feels like the first one that sends, puts this into action,

I guess is the way I would phrase it. How do you feel about that as the first moment? Oh, you're really just not going to do the show? What are you writing, though? All right, second moment. the day after the Panthers game, which again, I think tells you, like this kind of set something into motion,

our friend, Brandon Graham, says the quiet part out loud, says what everybody knew internally at that point. Everybody around the building would have been aware of, but maybe the public isn't quite as aware of it, which is that it's something to change between Jalen Hertz and A.J. Braw. It kind of forced Jailen and A.J. to answer for the notion that, like, something had changed,

try to pour out that fire. Obviously, they did fine because they went on to win the Super Bowl that year. But I do, again, think that these were the first, you know, it was the first time we all had a window into the cracks might be showing a little bit with AJ's relationship with Jalen

and also the Eagles. So that was my second moment. I think I need the chat to tell me what they think of these moments. I really want to know what you're writing. Is there going to be a reveal of what you're writing. No. Okay.

Third moment. AJ's Instagram caption after the Super Bowl. I can read it if you want, but I think most sickos are aware of the sentiment behind the Instagram caption. Being basically like, being a champion isn't actually what AJ Brown plays the game for. And I think it is to me

like one of the best like, one of the best explanations of the duality of being a star receiver to me. And because I think when I explain it, it's like he basically was saying, winning the Super Bowl wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Actually, what I love is dominating in a game. And I think however you read that is totally understandable. You could say, how are you not about winning first? That's okay. I get that. But you could also say like he is the ultimate competitor. He wants to drive winning, and I understand that as well. But I think that caption in hindsight, again, like doing a retrospective, that caption tells you why the 2025 season transpired the way it did for AJ Brown, why he was so frustrated. Because it wasn't just about winning. It wasn't being a champion and being

content. He wanted to prove to everyone that he was the best receiver in football. He believed that. He said at the beginning of the season in training camp, I want to put a stamp on it. I want to show that I'm the number one. I'm the best receiver in the league. It's about more than just the wins and losses for him. It's about how they come. And obviously, the Eagles passing game didn't fulfill that, that need that I think a lot of star receivers have.

So that's my third moment. The fourth moment, Jankey Rondo Gate. I think, like, the fact that AJ was so public about the state that the offense was in, how he felt about everything. Obviously, like, we had the Bible verse, we had the using me but not using me. But I think that was where it was really like, you know, kind of pouring gasoline on a simmering fire. And I think it's not a coincidence that that was the last time we heard from AJ was that week, explaining why he was so frustrated and why he, you know, said the things he did and not apologizing for them for the record.

And then the fifth moment isn't really a moment. It's the silence that has followed all of this. the way the season ended, I think if I had to pick a moment out of it, it probably would be the drops after the 49ers game and the fact that he didn't speak after that game, which basically has given way to an offseason where everybody has filled in the gaps for AJ. And we've seen this story gain momentum.

We've seen the trade speculation game momentum to the point now where you all just expect them to get traded. So those are my five moments. You have to tell me what you think now. Put a lot of work in that. I have some storytelling thoughts. Okay. I think you didn't do enough as a storyteller to set up the first moment.

I think that first moment should be is more of a second moment. Okay. Because that's the first time, and we're talking here about when he says that the passing game is not, the passing game is what he's upset about. Yeah. That is the first time we see this discord breach the surface. I think you need, I think you need an initial moment that is more. about when does the discontent start simmering underneath so that's probably what

2020 because that is not until the third year on the team yeah at what point along the way do you start to get the sense that AJ is not happy with this so it's probably fact that they have to change the offense in 2024 all of the offensive linemen go and say we need it we need to make this a running offense because Jalen can't handle maybe AJ thinks Jeline can't handle the passing game version of it right yeah um whatever it is that starts the discord between AJ and Jalen, I think you need that to be some kind of first moment. Yeah, but that is so hard to pinpoint, though.

Well, sorry, if you want to tell a story. I was going to say I deserve that, but I don't. I don't deserve that. But you know what? I feel okay about the tally here. I think you then those two things, that and the BG thing, that's one moment together. That's a 24-hour period.

I disagree. It's a 24-hour period. I disagree. I think the passing thing, the passing thing does ignite the BG thing. Like, it sets that into motion because BG is not talking about them if A.J. doesn't say passing. Yeah, but I think they're two separate things. As the moment and explain that it comes on the heels of A.J.

Yeah. Or is publicly calling it. I think I'm surprised there's no mention of the book on the sideline. I think if we think about the AJ's story in Philadelphia, him having to deal with his own mental discomfort with the, way that he is being used, that is like the pinpoint moment of this whole saga, I feel. I agree. I don't think that the inner excellence is like, I don't think, so your framing of it is good,

is that like this has, this shows you that like inner turmoil that AJ has, but I think the caption does the same thing. And I think the inner excellence thing was, it was a fun moment. It's a memorable thing that happened. But I don't think it really, like, moved the needle one way or another in terms of like AJ's relationship with anyone or AJ's standing in the locker room. I think it was just like a crazy thing that happened that's funny. And honestly, I think the results color how you look back at it also.

Like they won the Super Bowl that year. Like it wasn't a big deal. Yeah. But I think that is the most iconic moment of this whole saga. And it's also the first time where it becomes a national story. Do you think that was seen differently in the locker room and they didn't really comment on it versus like everybody? Like fans liked it. They thought that was so awesome.

He's reading this book and it was cool. But do you think that like kind of annoyed the locker room? It's a good question. And then when the fans were happy with it, it like didn't become anything. I would say I would guess most players don't care. But I think that it probably runs along the same line of there are people in that locker room who like AJ and see things the way AJ sees them and will think it's fine and think it's like funny because they are on the side of AJ. I'm sure there were people who are the same exact way. with Jalen, where they are on Jalen side of this, you know, perceived rift.

I mean, we could just call it a rift. And because of that, they probably are like, oh, this guy's always doing something. So I think it's like anything in life where it's like your perspective colors how you feel. But generally, from like an objective standpoint, I don't think players really had like an issue with AJ reading the book on the sideline. I think players probably had more issue with the Instagram caption. Like, I think if I was one of AJ's teammates, I might understand where he's coming from, but I might also completely disagree with the sentiment of that Instagram caption.

I think the AJ Jalen miced up in the Super Bowl thing. I actually like the IG caption, the post-super Bowl caption better. I think you could loop that in. I talked about that. Yeah, that's a big part of it because what's funny is that moment that they had at the Super Bowl feels like that could have been them fixed forever. And then the Instagram caption comes. And the Instagram caption, like, isn't like, it's not like, oh, my God.

Like, AJ just, you know, poured the gasoline back on the fire. But it showed you that, like, the match was still lit almost. You know, it's like there's still that side to him. Like, there's still that drive internally for him. And even if him and Jalen can acknowledge, like, after all that we've been through, they probably can do that today. Jalen did it on the podium. You know, talked about all that they've been through together and the things they've achieved

together, you can have that, but still not have fixed whatever the actual divide is. You know what I mean? So, but it is funny because looking back at it, you would go like, man, they, they, you know, hugged it out at the end of the Super Bowl. Like, you think that from there they should have been able to walk forward together. But obviously it was not that simple. And then I would argue that instead of Janky. Bible verse?

No, I think there's nowhere else here that you have an on-field moment. I think there needs to be an on-field moment. And to me, instead of Janke, it is AJ not running. The Broncos game. The Broncos game. Yeah. Because that is when this turns from, oh, classic diva wide receiver. There's all this stuff always going on, but whatever, to actually affecting what is happening on the field.

And that is what leads to an actual divorce. So you and I flip this. You pointed out like the tangible thing. This is, you know, good storytelling here. You pointed the tangible thing. see and so far it's pretty mid. You pointed at the tangible thing and then steered it toward like A.J.'s psyche in that moment, I went the other way.

I say he made it clear how he felt about the Eagles offense. And oh, by the way, it was obvious on the field. You know, you could see it. Like, you know, we spent so much time talking during the season about is AJ healthy, has he lost his step? And I think it's clear that the way that the way that. that he felt about the offense, the way he felt about his situation

was what was behind the way that he looked last year. So I think we were kind of talking about the same exact thing. It's funny, so I had honorable mentions. And Inter Excellence was the first honorable mention. And using me but not using me, which I think was after the Vikings game, that one's another honorable mention. If AJ hadn't done all the other stuff,

like if Janky Rondo had never rose to prom, and I'd say rose to problems, but if A.J. Brown's, never said the things he said on Janky Rondo's stream. I feel like using me, not using me, would be looked at a lot more, like, you know, with a lot more scrutiny. Like, that was, that was crazy.

They had won a game. He had played really well, and he was still furious. Like, he was still, you know, putting the cryptic Instagram captions out there. So I think that does deserve a mention in this whole thing. Now, if you are telling this story with the specifically Patriots bent,

would you make AJ opening up that Tom Brady jersey as one of the moments? I wouldn't. I mean, I understand. As the foreshadowing. From an Eagles fan perspective, I totally understand if people feel like what the hell about that. I think, I mean, yeah,

I probably am not putting enough stock in like AJ's open flirtation with the Patriots. Like, in all this... I think that, I actually, I agree with that. And I think that that's probably a little bit convenient. I don't think that AJ is forcing his way out of Philadelphia to get to the Patriots because he grew up a Patriots fan.

Yeah, now I did want to like give the 4% chance when we were talking about AJ not believing that the offense can change with Jalen. There is like a tiny percent chance that this isn't that complicated. It's like I've been a Patriots fan my whole life. This is a chance to go win a Super Bowl with this team. I don't think that's it. But how much though does Brayroll being there have to like pull him even more to the like those?

somebody else, not Belchick, but just they hired somebody else, not fable. Yeah. He clearly thinks it's a very favorable situation, a team that was just in the Super Bowl with a coach that he's very close with. I think that there has to be a lot more. You would know that just because you went to the Super Bowl, doesn't mean that the offense is going to be great. It doesn't mean that it doesn't mean that it's going to be great the next year.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Good stuff. Great storytelling. Needs a little bit of work. back with a D block on the other side.

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whether it's a quick fix or a big summer project, they've got the tools, the know-how, and the people like Ed, to get it done right. Ace Hardware, Home Services bringing helpful to your home. Visit Ace Hardwarehomeservices.com to get started today. Back in the P.HL.Y. Eagles podcast, Bo and E.J. mentioned in the chat about a spat between AJ and Jalen week two, 2023. Yeah, so what game was that? First real indication.

So here's the tricky thing with that. So that was after the Vikings game. Something about the Vikings with Jalen and AJ. Another game that they won also for the record. To me, the Jalen and AJ like bickering on the sideline, I have a hard time putting a ton of stock in it, even with everything we know, because we, it's been reported, I think by the inquires, Jeff McLean, want to give him a shout out, because I think he was the first one to report it, that, like, they, Jalen and AJ have been known to, like, bicker like a married couple in the past. And we all have friends who are like that. Like, we all have friends who like, what are you talking about? Well, yeah, you and me, honestly, exactly. Like, you know, we can fight. like crazy on the show, but like I, you know, I'm going to say with conference. We love each other. So, um, obviously, I actually grew up a DNVR fan, so. forcing my way on out of here. You better not. So in hindsight, yes, I think you could point to some

sideline disagreements they've had, but I don't know. I think actually like the times where things have been going really poorly and they haven't spoken have been just as telling. So, um, but still, important, again, in hindsight, to look back and say, like, not everything was great. I know, it's so funny to just think back to the real first moment, is, you know, when they trade for him and you get to FaceTime the two of them, like, that's like, how far, how much things have changed. Yeah, it's like, it is genuinely from a human perspective. It's sad.

Yeah. It is sad. I agree. But maybe them getting away from each other in a professional sense will be good for them. You know? Maybe. Maybe. Yeah.

I don't know. 20 years down the road. Like an Eagle Super Bowl reunion. That's good. Yeah. Like they got their arms. You know, maybe like a magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas documentary 20 years from now. Maybe.

Yeah. I could see that. I could see that. Okay. Yeah. What did you hear about Clinton Hurt and Joe Casper? Yeah. spoke during the show yesterday, so we were not able to be there.

Yeah, I'm going to give a shout out to Olivia Reiner on this as well. So I enjoyed some of Clint Hertz's anecdotes about O'R. Bernard. I thought, you know, he's basically was talking about how, and again, this is a story from Olivia Reiner, an anecdote about how Clint Hart felt like he was annoying how he rose and with how often he was texting him about O'R. Bernard, yeah, that's fun. Just like constantly, like, you know, Olivia said it would be really cool to have this. guy, you know, if we could just get this guy and, you know, the anticipation as the draft is going on. That's fun context to the speech that he gives because it's like, he's been, he's been doing

this for months. Yeah, pounding the table to get O'R. Bernard in the building. And I thought this quote that he had about O'R. Bernard and like the reason why he was passionate about it. It wasn't just like the obvious thing that we look at, like the physical traits. He says, I'm not putting my stamp on everybody. If you don't have great work ethic, if I don't believe in your character and who you are as a person, I'm not putting my family's well-being in anybody's hands. But when I saw the kid's work ethic

and character, he's an unbelievable human being. I know as people get a chance to spend some time with him, he's a great kid. So I felt good about doing that. Oh man. That guy's got such alpha energy. What a big... What a just a

big guy quote. If I don't believe in a guy, I'm not putting my family's well-being on the line. Yeah, he's got a good way to talking. Fantastic. Yeah, it was good, it's good to hear from the assistant coaches too. I want to point that out, you know, I feel like they don't always get a chance to talk. You know, and with the way the schedule is, they just don't, you know, they don't, we don't often hear from them. And it is good when we do, because you get quotes like that. You know, like the position coaches know these, these guys as people a lot more than Nick's

reality is able to. Not to say Nick doesn't know them as people, but it's a difference between, you know, being in front of a meeting room of 53 or 90 guys this time of year or, or, you know, room of 12 where you really get, and you're spending a lot of time in that room, so you get to know these guys. You know, I think, Clint Hurd gave. Interesting. You know what, finish what you're saying, and then I want to, and then we're going to, we're going to have a draft at the end of the show.

Okay. Just a really quick, Clint Hurt gave probably the answers you'd expect on Jalen Carter. He's doing well. He's looking good physically. You know, he's been active in the meetings when he's been there. So the general, like, positive stuff. And then Joe Casper also spoke and basically said, like, what Cooper to Gene does it, Nickel, should inform how he can operate its safety and they're confident about that.

And then another thing, everybody's buying the Rieke-Wollen stock now. I feel like I got in, you know, about five days before the real bus or the real boom here, you know, before everybody else got in on it. Didn't you just get in after Vic talked him up? Yeah, but since then, I feel like, when everybody got in? I feel like he had a little OTA pop because everybody's like, oh man, this guy, look how tall he is. And it's like, yeah, yeah, got to listen to P. H.O. Eagle Show. Taking credit for every little thing.

I took credit for like two things. That's all. It was a good show. Good Friday show for me. Strong. Comment on the chat that says I want Clint Hurt to be my dad. Okay. Let's do a draft of the Eagles coaches.

Who would you most want to be your dad? Okay. I want to make it clear that I wouldn't trade anybody for my own father. Nor would I? Yes. Michael Clay. That's your first pick? Yeah, I think he's definitely my first pick.

I think Michael Clay would be a great dad. Yeah, he seems like he'd be an excellent dad, understanding good perspective. Yeah. Not going to be, like, crazy, strict, but he's going to have principles. I think that's good. Yeah, but he's going to be willing to have fun. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Oh, man, that's a very good first pick. He's going to teach you how to be good at multiple sports, too. Yeah. Yeah. That's a very good first pick. Mm-hmm. I think I would go Clint Hurt number two. I think Kinnert would be a great dad.

Yeah, you know, when you see him. I feel like, you know, there's a little bit, a little bit of disciplinarian. He's going to expect a lot out of you. Yeah. No doubt about it. But he's going to love you. Yeah. There's a little bit more of that side to him and you would expect.

Now are we, are we saying this? Are we doing this literally? Like they're your dad and they have the job they have? Or are we just going based on personality? I think just off personality. I think that's probably the easier way. Do you want the head coach,

to be the son of the head coach? Like that's a little bit weighty. Yeah, but I think Nick probably. He's high on the list. I mean, I'm looking through like... I'm not going to share my board with you. Remember the whole thing with the, was it the Seahawks coach?

Like, said he sees his son like a half hour a week or something. Like, he didn't really meet it that way, but you don't really get to see him as one. I'm going Bobby King. Interesting. Yeah, he's a little eccentric. What's that? BDU.

He's a little eccentric, which I think is fun. He seems really passionate about his players, which I think would be, I guess I think that'd be a good thing for your dad to be like really, he doesn't seem like a helicopter, like I'm going to live vicariously through you, but he cares about you succeeding.

And I think, I think what I think of my dad, I think about that, like he really pours into your success. And for that reason, I think Bobby King would be a good pick here. I think you, it's a fine pick.

You let me get number three on my board here. Feel very good about getting Jamal Singleton. Oh, yeah. you know, though? Very good dad, I'm guessing. But he's got that, like, army, that, that military background. Okay, okay. That was what gave me pause.

Jamal Singleton is, like, a really, really nice guy. He's got great energy. Yeah. But I could imagine if he's your dad, you got a lot of rules. You got to be in the house by 945. Yeah. You're going to be up at 5 a.m. Yeah, but what are you?

You're out and about at 10 p.m.? Oh, you don't know what I'm up to? Vacation E.J. Yeah, with the in loss. Yeah. on vacation with the Belly up at the bar with Don shout out Don

you don't know what we get into I thought you were going to go with Jeremiah Washburn Jr. No you'd no selling that you'd be a fine dad I'd be good yeah yeah

he seems like a nice guy and he seems like a family guy he's got his family around a lot at the Eagles games maybe that's like a second generation yeah so I'm going with him This is where it gets tough because we don't know all these guys. Yeah, I feel like maybe the bit has reached its conclusion.

All right, give me Nick Siriani at the end. Okay. I think Nick is a good dad. Yeah, he'd be a good dad. Yeah. Well, who else? I'm just running through. Now, Mannion, unfortunately, too hard of a worker.

Oh, sorry. He's also young. He's in the building too often. He's young. I mean, I guess... He's got three kids. Let's say he's not that young. But if he's in the office, if he's in the office that often, you know, I'm at home.

I don't know why. I'm like, oh, you can't be a dad. He's young. He's like 34. Mannion probably a good dad. But yeah, is he too dogged? I mean, you can be a hard working dad. You can have work long hours and still be a great dad.

Yeah, no, but I want him at home a little more. Okay, that's fair. Well, he doesn't have the job, but you're saying any job. Any job he has going to be working on. From what I've heard about Sean Manion, the guy is a workaholic. Yeah, okay. That's fair. I mean, we probably should throw Vicabone here as well. I don't know.

Brutal honesty could be a good train as a father. Yeah. It's very smart. But yeah, terse. I'm just trying to run through who else there is. Like, yeah, okay. See, like, yeah, like, I'm looking at Joe Casper. I'm like, the guy's too young.

I think Joe Casper is probably younger than me. Not out there. Wow, made it happen. Oh, did he? That means I get to watch him. You got to figure out when he plays next. I have to figure out when he plays next. Yeah, that'll make me do your work for you.

I bet to say. I've got a couple notes left from the shows when I was away. All right, what do you got? The first one is a real one. I thought Fran did a really good job breaking down the importance of like Jalen mentioning that the offense isn't going to be this like West Coast matchup based offense anymore. Because when Fran described like how many times. when, you know, Fram's going through the tape, was he going, all right, one second into the play,

that's dead, that's dead, that's dead. This is the only place Jalen can go with the ball. And it's like, I think Jalen probably like to feel in the same way. Like, you know, this offense works when it works, but like there are times where you have no answers. And yeah, I think it's encouraging that he's going to get those answers. Now, it's up to him to identify them consistently, but I agree with your guy's sentiment that there's reason for optimism there. And I think if you're an Eagles fan specifically, like the way the offense function last year, how frustrating it was, that is now not as much. They are moving away from that in a way that I think is encouraging. Okay.

Find out what other feedback AJ has on a storytelling front in overtime. And storytelling. Storytime. Passionate storyteller, as you know. So. You should change your social media bio. to just storyteller. Well, I'm going to tell you a story about a man who sat in this very chair.

Did a great job during the shows. I want to tip my cap to Fran first. Wow. Shots fired at BLG. Oh, yeah. Well, I'm sorry. Tipped my cap to BLG as well. But I'm not about to take a shot at BLG because, you know, he didn't have a ghastly take

that made me almost drive my car off the road. elbow brace is the worst brace what are we talking about what about the elbow brace it's so terrible compared to the neck brace the knee brace like you could get you could probably get a hip brace there's so many braces that are worse

than the elbow braces the elbow braces yeah yeah brace brace brace all of these are way worse than the elbow brace like I understand like your elbow you can kind of rotate it a little bit more than you can a knee brace, but not really. Like, it's probably the one that is the least intrusive.

And he was like, oh, elbow brace. That's got to be the worst one right there. Listen, sometimes you're just in the middle of the show and you got to say something. I know, but you know if the rolls are reversed. I mean, I did disagree with him in the moment. Outrageous, outrageous take. Shout out to friends. though. I'm going to watch Unbreakable.

Fran said he's never worn an ankle brace in his life. Me neither. Really? Yeah. Let me know in the chat if you guys have worn an ankle brace in your life. Am I the only one that needed ankle braces like when I was in high school? You never rolled your ankle really bad? Skill issue.

No. He just weren't playing. I was going to say, I knew he'd be like, well, I'm an athlete. Yeah, but like Steph Curry wears, where his ankle braces? I think he does a better athlete than Steph Curry. I think he, thank you. Absolutely. A outrageous.

That's now the most outrageous. He's a better shooter, but, you know. Overall athleticism, I think we know where it goes. Ankle braces, I thought were like normal. Did you ever get ankles taped? You never had your ankles taped, then you're not a real athlete. Lindsay, have you ever had your ankles taped? Never taped, but I think I were an ankle brace, maybe.

Some of us played like high-emble. impact sports, you know, sports that required real athleticism and, yeah, we needed an ankle brace. Excuse me, you know what sport I did? Weren't you a cheerleader? Yeah, you don't think that's contact when I have to lift the person up and touch them? I was saying Lucy and I were the same because she had an ankle brace. Chearleading has got to be really tough on your ankles because you got to like, you got to

land it. Don't try to save this. No, I was, there's nothing to save. Women are athletes. I literally just said some of us are real athletes looking at you. you as the not some of us. The chat knows what this is. Who's the most athletic on this podcast?

Chat, please let us know. Come on. I was a good athlete. What do you mean you see me do things? I'm not a good shooter. So the pop a shot is not my game. Okay. But I was a good, I was a good football player.

I was a good baseball player. You stopped playing baseball? Yeah, because I wanted to focus on football. Okay. And I worked out fine for me. Real athlete. I'm like some people who are playing baseball.

I guess you don't need ankle braces when you play baseball. Take that for what you will. The only way you could really hurt your ankle in baseball is if you step on the base wrong and that would be pretty on athletic. Slide? Yeah,

like, but yeah, it's all interacting with the base. I mean, you could roll your ankle going side to side. Yeah, but that's not a... Again, skill issue. Yeah, exactly. But if you're playing basketball...

You are a clunky, gawky athlete. Of course, I have not. Of course you're tripping over your ankles all the time. So you're telling me you've never rolled your ankle playing basketball? Yeah, I have. But I didn't tape them up. I'm manned up like a man.

Wait, so now you're saying that only men, the only real man wouldn't roll his ankle. Women can't, women aren't real athletes. I got a man up over here. Listen, we got to get those chores done before Sunday, my man. Oh, you know how those women are. They want you to do those chores. shopping. Oh, man.

All right, my last take. And then we can get out of here because we are going off the rails. You mentioned Johnny Wilson, Dallas Goddard, Johnny Munt, and Kam Latsu were on the field at the same time. Good thing you got that laptop there. I almost drove the car off the road. I'll tell you, I was like, that's four, what's it, zero four personnel right there.

Love that. Need that in my life. I know you do. All right. That'll do it for the PHY Eagles podcast. Thanks for being with us all week. We will be with you on Monday, June 1st, live from Brian Dawkins' Celebrity Golf event, potentially the day that AJ Brown finally makes his way out of Philadelphia for all of us here at PHY.

Thanks for watching and listening. We'll talk to you on Monday. And as always, we love you.