Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Weekend Highs and Lows

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look back on the Leafs' weekend back-to-back, consisting of a convincing win against the Penguins and a bad loss to the Capitals. They discuss Morgan Rielly's recent play in the defensive zone, Joseph Woll's consistency despite a losing result, Dennis Hildeby earning a larger role, and Dakota Joshua's bounce-back after being scratched. Then, they revisit William Nylander's relationship with Craig Berube after Chief's comments about him at today's skate and forecast what Easton Cowan could be for the Leafs down the line. Finally, they chat about Brandon Carlo's setback and the state of the depleted blue line.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

All right, who's in for another great week on the real Kipper and Bourne show. We are live, Sportsnet 360, Sportsnet 590, the fan in Toronto, and streaming always on Sportsnet Plus. If you missed our show live, you can always catch it on spot. Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. We got Jake the Snake Shilts. We got Andrew Adams in on this Monday. Nick Kiprio's Justin Bourne and our very own Sammy McKee.

Derek, not president today. Maybe getting a fade for the Christmas party tonight. Seems like that's probably not what he's doing. Oh, okay. Just a guess. Oh, okay. I will be attending today. Oh.

I haven't gone the last few years. Well, there hasn't been one. Yeah, your bombs for the boys or what today? There hasn't been one. No, maybe that's the reason why. But now there is one, so we're going. Okay, do we need any coupons or anything to get in? Yeah, I think so. I think, well, they might be like, you'd be like, can I come with you?

Can I come with you? Can you, can I hang with you tonight? Me? Yeah. No. Are you to smoke a dart with them? No. It's a school. I want to hang with you.

I really do struggle drinking on school nights. It's really gotten to the point of my life where I can't really drink. Pull it, J.B. You don't have to drink. Yeah. I like to drink, but I don't like to do it. Yeah, I do too. I don't like to do it on weekdays. So, we'll see.

We'll see how it goes. There you go. We'll see what goes. Okay, whether or not Lee fans had a lot to drink this weekend remains to be seen as they split their weekend back to back. Losing 4-2 of the Capitals on Black Friday after blowing a 2-0 lead only to come back and let Sammy and his buddies breathe a little easier for Sunday with a 7-2 win against Pittsburgh on Saturday night.

Before we get into it, I wanted to ask you how the short-as-a-game was on Friday. Oh, yeah. Shores a game was great. It was great. Those guys are awesome. Players are guys? The cast. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But are they awesome players or are they awesome guys? No, they're pretty good. Yeah, they're pretty good. We still beat them. And they tried really hard. You know what was amazing is that they're so young that you can feel that their game like is without the red line and ours is with the red line. Yeah, he passed underneath a little tect.

They're the Toronto Maple Leaf 40 foot stretch. passes, which we're okay early, and then it just bailed on them. Yeah. And then they got filled in. 15 footers. Yeah.

Tick. Four touch breakouts. I got a little video I wanted to show you. Oh, no. Yeah. Don't. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, wait on. Hold on. Drop down. Ontario. Number 32, Nick Timprio. Whoa. Look at me how slow I'm moving. Oh, yeah.

You might hear my, You didn't hear Ali go, woo. But she sent me a lot of videos. It looked like fun. That was great. I don't know what we had. Maybe 13,000 people there in the lower bowl. The lower bowl was completely full.

Ali said that. It was a very, very, very pro Sudbury Blue Dogs. Oh, no. Blueberry. Yeah, they were not, like, they were the predominant fans in the crowd. They were cheering much more. Oh, no, no. It was all for the Shoresy team.

That's fabulous. Glad you had a good time. It was. It was great. And the game was over. I'm in the shower. I'm one of the last guys to leave the dressing room. And I walk out the building or I'm slowly walking out.

There's four or five of them on the ice, still signing autographs for the fans. Really? Yeah. The Shorzi guys. Oh, yeah. Really? Yes.

And they, like, and people hung around and, yeah, very impressive. But you would think the Terry Ryan interview we did was with Terry Fox. People thought it was so cool. They loved it. This is unbelievable. Allie was blown away by his skate. She's like, he's flying. Yeah, he was flying.

He was like flying. His energy is off the charts. Yeah. Yeah. So I hung out with Terry after the game a little bit with his Greek buddy George. Oh, yeah? It was like legendary ball hockey coach for Canada. I saw in Terry's Twitter bio, he's a Hall of Fame ball hockey.

Yes. Yeah. I was like, there's a Hall of Fame for Ball hockey. That's cool. My new Greek buddy George maybe saved him with that. Is that right? Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, he didn't have much going at that point. Yeah. And he participated in it, and they created a little energy for him. And now he's a superstar, an international superstar, Terry Ryan. So it was awesome. He sends me voice notes, which is. Terry Ryan? Yeah.

Which highlight. I think a lot of people will be pretty jealous of. Yeah. So when we walked in the room, we had to be there around 530. Yeah. And the first thing I did was like. get them to switch the monitors over the leaf game. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Didn't have the leaf game. So I didn't catch a ton of Friday night, but enough to see a two-nothing lead. And I think everybody feeling pretty good that they were going to go win what many thought was unwinnable game. I know it didn't end up that way, but. As a man who poured over every minute of it.

Yes. I would say that they were never in it. No? No. Like it was. Washington is a good hockey team and had like we talked about it on Friday one of the best five on five teams in the league

and they sure look like it and I think I don't know if the least got the 20 shots I you know that was a pretty tough I mean it was a scheduled loss we all knew that we talked about that a little bit but just the way it ended up looking and how that one was discouraging and then they went on Saturday night so it's an interesting

weekend to talk about I'm not sure exactly what to take away from it I'll just say the strange thing on the Friday night game was the takeaway from the coach, his post-game comments. And, you know, he was basically like, yeah, we just didn't bury our chances. You know, like we just didn't put our breakaways away. And by and large, I think the consensus of everyone watching the game was like, well, you got heavily outplayed for the hockey game.

That should be more of a concern than missing a few chances. All right, let's get one of those post-game comments with Craig Bruby Saturday, or Friday night, sorry, his overview of the Washington Capitol game on Friday. Well, I don't know if they got away from us. I mean, I thought if you look at, you know, scoring chances, you know, we outchance in that period. But, you know, in D zone a couple times, they had, you know, the one goal there, we just didn't seal up the, you know, we got stick lifted first of all. And then they made a play off the wall to Ovi, we got to have that back doors field up. And then, you know, they got roaming around on that next goal.

and again a seam pass got us again so there's a couple seam passes there that we've got to be better on and we've got to have better sticks and better coverage and we've got to finish we had opportunities to finish on some plays when we had three breakaways and we got to finish

we didn't finish maybe he's just trying to downplay it from the coaching perspective but like I watched the game it got away in a you're from Microsoft, in a significant, significant way. Like, Washington was the better team for most of the night,

but in the third period specifically, they got away. Under seven minutes, at the very least, you've got to find a way to get a point. Absolutely. Come on. No, I totally agree. At this point of the season, you need to find a way, and they could not hold on.

It kills me, though, that Morgan Riley is involved in any of these plays. He's the veteran guy. He was talking about the scene past the back door. Yeah, yeah. That was totally on him. And that kills me. It's like you're the guy. You've been through all the battles with this team.

You know how desperate this team is where they're at in the season. You're supposed to be a leader at this point and step it up. There's a stat, I think, in the athletic today that Riley's been on for 19 high danger chances, or sorry, high danger goals against this year at five on five. Next highest among Leafsty is nine. So 10 more than the next, you know, it's like that tracks. It tracks. And it's really scary because it's like,

Tanev's out, Carlos out, who he's supposed to put in the ice if you can't trust Riley. So that's a concern for me. I would say he's probably playing more than he has. And in spots, he wouldn't probably. So there's probably on the ice more than a lot of those guys, which would maybe skew that a little bit. But, I mean, it's a, where there's smoke, there's certainly fire. This weekend, Morgan, this weekend Morgan Riley became the third defenseman in Leaf history to record 100 multi-point games. so when he saw me and Thomas Cabrillet,

there's no question where he knows where he believes he can contribute the most to the hockey club. And that's up the ice. Yeah. Up the ice. So when he is in the defensive zone, is he just figuring out ways to jump up the ice or get up ice?

Is he just not focused enough? I don't know. He's never been like a stalwart back there or anything. You just... Listen, he makes $7.5 million. At some point, someone thought he was better than that defensively. Yeah, definitely. And I don't know.

Like, look at this one. He doesn't think he's, there's no rush going the other way. That's not what's happening there. Some of these times, he's just not physical, physically engaged enough. Find a guy. Get under a stick. Huck watching. But it's so fast out there.

But, God, that's a tough visual. Yeah, it is a tough. It's a nice play. It's fast game. But, God, you're guarding the ghost runner on second there. Jeez. Anyways. But, but they come back the next night.

They do, they do just thoughts on, on Joseph Wall playing that game. We had thought maybe it would switch. At the end of the day, it kind of ended up the way we thought it was going to end up. Yeah. Correct? Yeah, except taxing your guy. And then, you know, I've been vocal of just playing them as much as you possibly can. But that's a game that you're, I mean, it's easy in hindsight, but we said it before, too.

That it's a game that you think you might lose anyway. so maybe put the back up there. And he was great on Saturday. So maybe he gives you a different look, different feel. But yeah, I thought he was really good again. I mean, I don't know which one of the goals he's supposed to have. Like, it's tap-ins and a hammer job by Chikrin. Like, what do you want?

Yeah, it is his fault. It looked fine. Not going to fault him. No. All right. All right. So we move on to Pittsburgh Saturday night in a game that probably nobody expected as far as the score was concerned. Yeah, I don't know if you saw the thing I think.

tweeted you actually retweeted it so you did but the Leafs were the only team in the league who hadn't scored first and then just held the lead to the end of the game hadn't happened a single time all year long that's unbelievable yeah it is unbelievable so really nice it was just really refreshing knowing we come in and do this to watch them go out and just keep the foot on the gas pedal finish get depth scoring from everyone it wasn't like a under achiever line lit it up everyone who you're like could we get more from you yeah they all scored or at least contributed points so very refreshing matthew shot one in past a goalie all these things that you were like oh that's right that's what it's supposed to look like all right let's go to the head coach on his views

of the game after saturday night well i think what it does like we talk about the confidence level there was a lot of secondary scoring tonight which is good for our team we need that and it's not just on three guys or whatever that have been putting points up so it's good that we get the secondary scoring. I really liked our D tonight. I thought they were very good. They moved the puck well. They defended well. We protected our net pretty well. If they got shots, a lot of them are from

angles and outside, which is good. We protected the interior of the ice tonight. You know, it's confidence, you know. They're going to feel good about themselves, and that's good. And we've just got to build off it. We've got to keep getting better, though. We can't, you know, there's things that we can do better, and we've got

to keep working on it. It's all part of it. but I really like the way we move the puck tonight better we possess the puck more tonight which is good that's the fastest I've ever heard Craig Bruby talk it was like it was on 1.5 speed he's just excited to energy constant like Keith all of a sudden yeah and he knew that like he couldn't stumble on his words and say something bad about someone because everyone played good

so he just let it go he didn't need the pause to say am I going to regret this next word Well, no, he just spoke. That was really nice to hear. Yeah, Depp scoring, the thing, he goes, I really liked our D tonight. Troy Stetcher leads the team with 24 minutes of ice time. Yeah, that's a problem.

Yeah, that's a problem. I don't know what that is. How does that even happen? Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, goes out. Okay, yeah. How does Stetcher be the guy who plays 24 years? You're up and you're like, go out there, kid. They're looking to have a guy that moves the puck up and out of the ice and skates.

And he can skate. He can skate. and he had some pace and Myers is in the lineup yeah so less of that yes you don't need Riley to go get you one like I think Stetcher is you're going to hate this

weirdly important all of a sudden I mean I don't think I think we all should hate it I think we should all hate that you're gonna hate this everyone's not important right now to the Toronto Maple Leafs with whatever that they can contribute

or it's that point now I don't know in a perfect world when they're all healthy. I don't know how many minutes he can take. Not 24. It's not supposed to work this way, right? Yeah. You're not supposed to just find a guy in the first 20 games

and then say, oh, and while you're at it, can you be really important for us right now? No, it's, it's okay. I mean, they found away Saturday night. I'm not sure that the score was really indicative of the play. It wasn't. And let's, you know, talk about the goaltending that they got with. I appreciate Max's couple nice dishes for sure, which is great for him,

great for confidence. Dakota Joshua, noticeable, big, got on the score sheet, third line, presence. But Hildebee was their best player Saturday night for me. Yeah? He was good. Yeah, he was good. And they had quality chances. He was good early.

to kind of keep them in the game. Was it quiet? 7-2, no world you get outshot at 7-2. Yeah, I mean, it just doesn't. It's not supposed to work that way. You're not supposed to need your goalie to stop 33 or 35. Part of that, though, is, you know, you're up in a game. You know, you get the push from Pittsburgh.

It would have been outshot mostly all season long. I know, but I'm talking about that game. They got out shot 15-7 in the third period. You know, if the score is 2-2, I don't know it's the same thing. You know, I thought overall that's as good as the Leafs can make it look right now. Yeah, definitely. I mean, so let me ask you about Hill to be. Yeah.

Because, you know, I think I've been pretty vocal and just starting wall in every game. But having seen him play like that on Saturday night, I would say that he has earned another start and potentially, like, because they're going to Florida tomorrow night, right? And you're not going to start him in that game, clearly. That's old Joseph Wall. night but you finish the game they finished this road trip with Carolina on Thursday I mean it's it's a merit based thing and for me I don't know about you guys but like I thought he was excellent yeah

I'm giving him that game I you know I'm fine with that because you come back and you play Montreal at home on Saturday night and you're gonna watch Joseph fall in that game so rather than keep the pedal on wall and I'm gonna have to pace him a bit what I think the coach will do probably wall but like I do think that Hilda B was good enough during another yeah I'd be nervous to play Joseph Wall Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. I don't know what it looks like tomorrow night against Florida, which

is a depleted lineup. Like they are right there with the Leafs. They're there. And it's a winnable game. We got two Hildeby quotes from Burubi. Why don't we start with Clip 7 and then we'll branch out?

No, the goalie was great. I thought he made a lot of good big saves for us and, you know, he really looked calm in that, not playing for a while, you know, he looked really calm in that and, you know, played to puck well. You know, if he didn't have an out, he ripped it around a wall. Like, he was, he was good. He was solid and did a real good job in that for us tonight. Did you see the state-controlled media after the little thing they did with him going to the room?

He got the belt after it. There's nothing that guys live on a team than, like, not a huge contributor contributing a lot. And he got the belt, and they're all just yelling, beast, beast, beast, like the Hilda Beast. No, he was good. He showed poise. I don't think he got overly excited at times. He didn't see him out of his element,

which we saw earlier in games out of him. I saw a nice comfort zone. All right. Let me ask you this. Yeah. Do you really trust him? Do you trust him? I would say I trust him more now than the start of the season.

You? I think to your point where he's earned another look and another building block if you want to call it, start. Yes, yeah, absolutely. And at the end of the day, what choice do you have? You're not going to put all the weight in the world on Joseph Wall and Stolars is nowhere to be found.

Yeah, like they need this guy to play. Nowhere. Nowhere. I you know he was fantastic he was fantastic he was fantastic on Saturday and liked him and you know he's been better than Caden Primo ever was as a Maple Leaf it's 7 5 maybe 7 6 if he's not on his game I just don't know it's close it's closer than 7 2 I can assure you there was a moment in the game when Sid scores on the backhand and the next shift of genie melkin has what looks like a tapin back door and he makes this big save I'm sure he's his life flashed before his eyes there. So he was good. I think they should play him Thursday as well. You've talked me into that.

But I do think not to get ahead of ourselves too much. That's fair. All right. Let's get Craig Ruby's thoughts on earning more starts. Clip seven. Well, we'll see where our goaltending situation is, but for sure. I mean, that's, you know, he's a young guy, but he's grown in a year for me a lot. You know, like even coming in a camp this year, I thought he had a real good camp,

and I've got a good future ahead of one. That's nice. How many games did Caden Primo play for the least? Three? Yeah. Four, maybe three or four. They won a few of them, right? They didn't waste a ton of points.

I think he went two or three. Yeah, so it's not like you're going to look back on that and be like, oh, it's such a bad decision. They didn't, like, waste points. He played three games, got two wins. Whatever. It was a four points. Yeah. 4.30 goals against average and an 838%

Yeah, okay, so it's not much of a point to look back on that. No. Dak Josh. Oh, yeah. Dakota Joshua comes out, plows Matt Dumba, scores a great goal, draws a penalty, looks like if he did things, if he done any one of those things in the game,

I'd be like, ooh, and they're all there. He did on occasion do that. in Vancouver to earn a $3.2 million contract. Yeah, got four a year on a good line. It's been there before. Yep. But they did get rid of him

because he just didn't do it often enough. So that's his issue. It's not that he can't do it. It's he just picks and chooses his spots to do it. You know, part of it since, you know, had testicular cancer right and he had a the DA did that feature with him before the game which was great I think a lot of people thought since that coming back he struggled had a bad year in Vancouver and I think maybe there's some questions and was there some lingering effect

is this but you know me it could all be fair you know I'm just wondering is there a world where he gets he's in shape and his confidence is back and he finds the form that earned him that money in the first place I don't think they have any other choice but just to keep hoping that that's the case yeah yeah because Because there's nothing else out there right now for an option. My boy Gunner and I talked about this on Least Talk on Saturday night. But how frustrating must be as a coach to have to scratch a guy that makes how much he makes and then see him play like that.

Why do I have to do that? Where was that game? The Leafs kind of have a lot of those guys. I know. You know, that's McMahon. Domi's in and out like that. McMahon's not an established NHLer that's gotten the long-term, contract, and I guess Domi is like that, so maybe it's a little more frustrated.

Maybe Macheli's not saying, but I don't put McMahon necessarily in there. But, like, watching him play on Saturday night, I know I was frustrated by it. But McMahon, for me, it's in there when you look at the tools he has, and you're like, why can't you use those that way every night? Always be hard on the forecheck, always lean on guys. And he'd make six million bucks. I don't know about that. But, you know, I just, I look at around this time last year.

and I'll compare Joshua to Max Patcheretti and what Max was able to do right around this time of year he was unreal last year unreal like it was a good hit on Dumba okay it was a good hit but those type of hits have to kind of work with you as well where you know Dumba or anyone else has got to be kind of in the The trolley tracks, as they say, and it's got to... The story's got to align.

I remember Max Petcheretti crushing guys in the corner where guys aren't in the trolley tracks. They are just there, and he's punishing guys where it's like, they're rattled. And he doesn't do that for me. And he didn't do it Saturday night either. I just look at Max Petrui right now. and like they don't have that they don't have a guy that can punish people on hits i was blown away by

max patch ready's involvement and it max patch ready i know he faded how many games did he he ended up like i think it 35 i know i know he was still playing this we talked about this the guy ain't last in all season long he ain't doing it in march and there's going to be nothing left of them to do it in april and may i i get that but up until this point like max patch ready last year was a major contributor why the Leafs record at this time last year was something like 15 and 7 and sitting atop you know the big boys in the Atlantic division yep now they're there are 500 team and you're begging Dakota to please do it again tomorrow night so you're saying you want I mean I don't think he's ever been that yeah but you're talking with there so do you want someone else to get

traded here no I'm just saying that you you know, just be careful of your expectations from here on end for Dakota, Joshua. No, but I, you know, I think it's reasonable to be like, this guy can play like this. And when he doesn't, every so often, I think he, you know, he's at risk of being a scratch. You know, if this is going to be, I, by the way, I always felt very frustrating when you get scratched and you come back in

and play well because you're validating to the coach that you're someone who could be scratched. Didn't they have this conversation? Jennifer Botterol and Kevin BX a Saturday night over out of the lineup or keep him in the lineup and build his confidence. I was watching Olympic current tiles. I didn't catch the conversation,

but I heard that that was a conversation. Yeah, it was. And do you want to explain that to your position on it? Oh, gosh, bench all day long, healthy scratch, sorry. Yeah. But, you know, there's a feeling of whether or not if he has another bad game, do you pull him out? or do you try to instill confidence?

And I think that that was Jennifer's point. You know, I think the Leafs are, they have the luxury of being like, play well or don't play. That's the Yarn Krook. Yarn Kroke is a great NHL player. We'll put him in. We'll put in Mitees, Micelli. He's a passable.

Okay. He's average. Potentially. No, just not great. You're defeating the point. Yeah. You're making a point that's not arguing anything. I just, I don't think like Yarn Kroke, like I'd rather have

Macheli. in the lineup than like Yarn Crock at this point because they need, I don't know. He's also scratched and he could also serve the purpose we're talking about here. There's players who can co-in if someone comes up. For sure. Which is the point.

Where do you guys want to go? Willie, OEL. I got nothing on Willie. You got lots in OEL. Yeah. Is it still a hot button topic a little bit? Well, what, Willie? Yeah.

I didn't think it was. What's the button? I didn't think it was. I don't know whether or not he's playing well or Bruby's too hard. on them or I didn't think it was interesting until I heard this answer today. All right, let's hear Craig Bruey

on Willie Nealander's game. Clip 14. It's tricky. I mean, it's a good relationship. I always say that but I never know what I'm going to get from Willie, you know. It keeps me on my toes about things, but no, I think our relationship is good. I mean, we obviously

have our opinions about things and certain things, but for the most part, I think we communicate really well together and you know like I said he communicates with me or I'm you know vice versa and so he's for me personally it's I really enjoyed the challenge of coaching him can you take criticism better than the average takes it really well yeah yeah he does I mean there's different guys I've had over the years that they could take it better than others that.

Tricky. I will say the source of the criticism matters greatly and when you care a great deal about the source, it affects you in a big way. For example, if someone online who I don't know says, I'm terrible

or something, okay, whatever. If it's my wife and she says I'm terrible, it bothers me. That Willie takes criticism so well from Craig, I hope he respects Craig a lot and it matters to him and impacts him. You don't want it all to roll off his back and him just be like, yeah, okay.

All right, pal. I think that's what that we liked. I mean, well, maybe he didn't like it as much, but like the fact that he's on the ice yelling back at him feels like maybe he's not taking it perfectly, but he's giving his input and he's willing to push back. He's still engaged, yeah. There is a sense, though, that even in my era,

that there's just certain amount of players that just know that you may need me more than I need you. And I think that's, a little bit on Willie. That's interesting. And it's like certain star players have that that ability to sometimes answer back a little bit more forceful than anyone else on the team or, you know, even look at your cross-eyed sometimes. Willie's got that with Craig.

And Craig pretty much said it without saying it. just moments ago. Yeah. I need him. I'm screwed without him. He's the guy that can look horrible for 60 minutes, unengaged, uninterested, and still end up with a goal and assist to help you win the game. I just think the history of coaching, this is what it is, right?

It's like you have some elite players who you need to get the most out of, whether they like you or not. You have some guys who, you know, need more. kicks in the pants. But those typical guys are not your your best player on your team. See, here's the thing. I feel like you want this to be more of a thing than it is. I feel

like the two of them are continuing to coexist and it's going well and he's same as he's always been. Is he different than last year to you or the year before? No, no, no, no. Well, he is because he kind of could hide a little bit behind Matthews and Marner in their prime.

Right? And now that's gone and there's more attention to you now he's the best player on the team now he's the best player on the team now your teammates are watching you that much more closely can you still get away with the things that you did in the past yeah or are you are you being watched and scrutinized a lot closer you're not even getting this uh you're getting you're getting tougher matchups too right you're not it's not like matthews and marner seeing the best defense been a defense pair or or the number one line so that's added a little bit you know on it as well yeah that's an on ice thing for sure i i do i think there is some validity to maybe he's getting more

attention that's why it feels like we're talking about him more i i do feel like he's someone who this doesn't he's built for this that it does the the flood of willies this will he's that he's like a guy who he just keeps giving you the same thing you're getting the same thing he he which is okay when you're in the top three in the Atlantic division but not in the bottom three of the Atlantic Division then it's a different kind of feel and you want him to be someone he's not and then it's um you willing willing to pass to Cowan I've noticed in the past few games yeah that's nice that is encouraging like that's a thing right Cowan was not expected he's so talented he's so good but I mean start players have looked off guys

a lot and for him to be willing to pass that puck off to Cowan. I know he's wide open. See that as a personal endorsement of Cowan? Is that crazy? No, I don't think it's crazy. If he trusts, he can put that in rather than... There was another play right before that goal where I think they're on a two-on-one or there was a play where he was coming in and he tried to pass it to Cowan in a different spot.

Like, he's willing to pass it to him. That tells me a lot. I don't know. Maybe that's stupid. They're on the ice together, but it just feels... Willie was ever buried his head, chuter kind of guy. Maybe not. You know?

Just the fact that he's willing to defunders. to an 18 year old kid gives me hope about that 18 year old kid the Cowan thing is certainly i know it's 430 here but he's do it okay callan is he's already we talked about it i think on friday but like the step he's taken is huge huge step in terms of like they have another guy now who i don't know what he played last game but i'm sure it's over 15 minutes yeah i think 17 1844 yeah oh no it's it's it's not the best design right right No, I mean, they're last. You really hope that, you really hope that.

Where he finished? Last place? He would be like, you know, your fifth most important player, your sixth, and you can kind of bring him slowly. But because there's been a lack of success, consistent success, either from, you know, your second, third, or fourth lines, it's really left him an amazing opportunity to become this more important. important player.

Well, and the door was wide open for a guy of, of his skilled, of his, we are talking one about the one of the most successful junior hockey players in history to, to come out of, you know, CHL. Yeah. And, and their windows been open for him. You know, they, we talked preseason about Lorenz Lawton and Cowan being a viable fourth line. There's no doubt he's, he's too skilled.

So I mean, he's not, he's not talent. He's, he's, his vision. his engine, his energy, his skill level, his ability to get open. Like, it's way beyond your eighth to 12th forward. Yeah. I mean, we're only at the, I guess we're in December now.

And I guess that's why there's Christmas stuff. So, but, you know, I thought at this point, maybe this isn't when the wall starts. But, like, the fact that he's getting better at this point is surprising to me. Like, this is where it's like they're playing them however many nights. Like,

I thought he would be kind of sown down a little bit. I had him making the team last July. No, no, but like, I thought, he's a top player. For sure,

I agree with that, Kipper. And I'm really impressed with how he's looked. Like, I just think they're asking a lot of them. And for him to be answering these questions at this age. Yeah. It's,

like, I mean, like you said, they're in second last. So maybe there's something to do that. But like, I don't want to be too grim here. But like,

I'm kind of thinking about the next part of this thing. You know, as a rookie again, it's learning the pro game and managing your emotions and, you know, things start to wear off a little bit. But I'm saying he's going to hit, he's going to hit that rut again where he may not look as engaged as you do now. But you can't turn around and say, well, you know, at the end of November, you were like a really, really important player. And we need you to be a really, really important player again. you got to remember he's still like six months ago he's playing junior A hockey

yeah I think it's you kind of got to walk a line with this guy like are you allowed to put some pressure on him to play well or is it just a developmental year where you know they have no choice but to put as much heat as they can on him without him

breaking like you're you're backpedaling right now to save your season right you're just it's like whatever it takes and he's an important player now so I think Brube's got that touch

where you know we've been witnessed of it now for a little while he's not he's kind of saying the right things at least to make the guys feel good for sure other than Willie we haven't seen him really bury anybody

but you don't know with prospects and he's been one of the top prospects he's got a great junior career obviously one of the best junior seasons ever but just for me to have him look like he's going to be a really good NHLer gives me hope about, you know, like I said,

totally. The past this, we're starting to think about what might be next here a little bit and that he is an actual piece that a guy that can play on your top six and is an engine and offensive and I'm encouraged, I'm surprised. Yeah, and the other thing I'll say is like when Nick Robertson joined the Leafs, he played in that Columbus series when he was 12 years old? Yeah, a million years ago.

You know, people like myself were saying he has to have a B game. He has to have game when he doesn't have the puck when he's not scoring what can he bring Cowan has it totally like he works and back checks and makes plays and we're good there's no pressure on his offense because he can contribute when he's not getting off okay we got a break oh yeah do we do right through the third base stop sign Sammy all right let's take a quick break when we return a little bit more on the Leafs injury front tough news on the blue line we'll explain when we return to real Kipper and

Dive deep into Toronto sports and the NFL, the J.D. Bunkus podcast. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Right back at you. The real Kipper and Born show, Leaf Hour edition. All right, Sammy. Who wants to win? a bunch of cash. Are you going to do it?

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$198,000, boys. Buy your tickets at 50-50-fortune. Or text word money to 590-5-90, and we'll send you a link right to your phone. 18 plus please play responsibly standard message and data rates may apply a lottery license RAF 151 8410 I could never do that as well as you just did I mean I'm learning to read

he's come a long way yes over the years I've learned to read reading machine I've learned to read what do you read on the blue line these days for the Toronto Maple Leafs because from one game to a next it rarely looks the same and of course the injury bug has hit them like it has a lot of other teams as well. I'm not sure how much this has played into where they are today because there's other teams including the Tampa Bay Lightning where you can barely recognize their blue line as well. But what's the latest right now on Carlo?

So if I'm not mistaken last week, I believe Barube said that he was going to practice potentially today and on track for maybe returning Tuesday night against Florida. They had mentioned that. And then this was the update today on Carlo. Clip 13, please, Andrew. Carlo had to go back to Toronto and getting looked at by the doctor again. Was that a plan thing or was it a setback kind of thing?

More of a setback, I would say, where he's at. So he'll get, you know, we'll know something probably in the next 24th. four hours on him. Do the Leafs lead the league in setbacks? Mysteries? Yes. Well, I was just going to say, so he hurt his blank

and... At a blank time. Right. Which is now blankened. And, you know, I don't know. He's having a blank back. Not that we need to know, I guess. He's just unavailable, but it's just like, I don't know how to talk about this. For blanks' sakes.

When is this? stop never well i mean just on i guess wednesday they asked about willie and they assured willie's playing he came to the rank play looks great then he doesn't play Thursday like they said after the game that all wreckman larson didn't look that serious it's like oh my god he's out for the year is it is it is it something mechanical or could it just be the way he feels i.e you know his head for carlo for carlo for carlo and i'm just guessing and speculating but we're allowed to do that. We were talking before the show and I said, name the things that can

surprisingly get worse. Groin? Yeah, groin was definitely one. Back? But where? I don't even get groin. I don't get groin. But groin is something that if you move too soon, you can exacerbate a problem. But you're leaving ample time

for it to heal and you gradually work back up. You don't go out there and go mock three and then pull it again very seldom have I seen over my career a guy with a pulled groin unless he's rushed back unless he's coming back way too early it shouldn't be this case well it shouldn't be shouldn't be is it I don't know I literally don't know but why would you go out there in practice and and and re-injure your groin to the

point where now you have to go back and get it right reassessed so almost certainly not that is your point almost certainly not that like You can tweak your groin and they can still do therapy on you. There's no magic thing that you have to come home in Toronto that you couldn't do while you're still with a team. Dr. Groin. Outreisounds, right?

Not a cool name to have, by the way. Dr. You know, I mean, so I don't buy the groin thing. Then I think you're probably on. Dr. Groin is a scald hand. I don't know. I don't know. But like, set back.

Setback, right? It's like misdiagnosed, worse than you thought, like. Back, back injury, spasms? Listen, it could be anything. I'm just stole ours, sleepwalking into one another and the night. It could be anything, but, you know, I don't know, they had a, your buddies there, this sports scientist that went to Pittsburgh. Like, when it was this, bring them back.

When there was a department's full of like 150 people, do you ever recall hearing setbacks in the last 10 years or 12 years? I honestly don't. I don't remember ever hearing setback. Coming back and playing and getting hurt again or something, but no, I don't. It's bizarre. The Leafs have had pretty good injury health with their forwards over this era.

They're core guys in particular. For sure. But their decor has definitely been banged up at times throughout this era. Like I remember when Tyson Barry was one of the only healthy guys. and their decor, a bunch of HL guys. Like, they've missed, Riley has missed time on their decor, like Tanev, clearly, McCabe's been out.

They've been able to kind of paper over this, but it certainly feels different this year. And Carlo, I mean, there's just no timelines. We'll know more tomorrow. We won't. We won't. We definitely won't.

It'll be some time. But they are going to play Statcher alongside McCabe, and when they do that, McCabe can play the left side. And if you followed his results this year, he's been much better when he gets to play the left side. And that's another appeal of, Stetcher, he shoots right.

Yeah. Well, that was all the coach said about him when they picked him off waivers. They're like, yeah, Stetcher's in. He's like, yeah, he shoots right. Let's play clip 12, please, Andrew, on McCabe and Stetcher playing together. Well, I do like McCabe on the left. And, you know, that they look, Kaber, he was a lot better on the left with that game. And not that he hasn't done a good job in the right, but I'd rather him on the left as much as possible.

And him and Stetcher were good together the other night. Obviously, Benoit, Benny's back, so we'll have to get that sorted out. Playing on your offside in the National Hockey League must just suck. So much. I'll tell you, like, you've seen the hashtag, but the Babbs was right about Mike Babcock. Yes. Babcock was validated and like pretty much everything he said about this group. A lot of things.

Yeah. And the handedness thing in particular, because there's no doubt McCabe's better on the left side. But you're going. OEL as well. back on a puck and you're on your back hand with somebody bearing down on you as opposed to going on with your forehand. It's just such a different sport. I love it when they were facing the glass.

I know. You're like, oh, here we go. I love seeing their numbers. Ideally like to hit right between them. Leave that hit out of it, please, Sammy. That's a Ranton's line of thinking. There's definitely something to that. And that's another reason why Stetcher's made himself very valuable because he can

he can not only help himself but he can help McCabe right now. Yeah. So is that why I mean it's so, this is a classic Toronto Sports Radio to live and die with the sixth and seventh defenseman and the fourth line center but is that why Mirmus is out for Myers because

it's like, yeah, yeah, he shoots the wrong way. I disagree with that decision but it's not the hill to die on it. You've liked Mermis. I have liked Mermis. Yeah. I think he brings like at least an al-M he's better than Myers. He's just better than Myers. He cares.

He works defensively. He does those things where it's like, we don't, we know what your priorities are and it's just doing the right little thing. And that's Myers. Myers has more, he can do more things. All right. We got to, we're going to tee up the game tomorrow.

Obviously, big one, Florida and Toronto. Do we want to do this, Marshan? Well, let's just do it because I like you to suffer. Okay. Yeah. So, Marshan, obviously, was meeting with the media today in Florida ahead of the game tomorrow. His Super Bowl when the Leafs come to town so he gets to talk. Clip, one more shand.

I mean, what are 25 games in? If you think that your platformers are done, 25 games in, you get bigger problems. You know, I know they don't think that in the room. You know, it's just obviously with the media attention and the fan support that they have in Toronto, you know, things get blown way out of proportion up there. But, yeah, they definitely don't think that in the room.

What are they have four points out of a spot? Or, I guess, if people are thinking they're going to playoff spot for the season, they got to find a new job. You hear that, Kip, you've got to find a new job. This is actually my resume. He should worry about people thinking that way about his own team right now. You're not wrong.

Yeah, they stink. They stink. Well, yeah, half their team stinks. I know. I mean, much like the Leafs, they still have good players. They're not hanging in there right now. I mean, they have Marchand. They have Rinehart still.

They have Aggie still. They have Stan Bennett's still. Lundell, Luster. They still have good players. Yeah. They just cannot. They can't get any traction right now. They've also won back to back cups.

Yeah. And there's a sense to that right now that they just can't emotionally get themselves where they need to be right now. Minus two goal differential for the Panthers. Tied in points, but the Leafs have played one more game. This is a very winnable game for Toronto. I'd actually say this is a big game.

even come end of season standings. Yeah. It's just Brad Marshand. Well, you know what he's doing. He's just, yeah, he's in the... He's up to mail. Just, yeah, exactly. He's putting him up on a tee.

He's so good at this. He does it every time they play the Leaf. Just, oh, I love watching. The best one was... No, the best one was the America one. When they were at the Four Nations, he's like, listen, like, that's the best team ever assembled. That's right.

It's all the R's Hall of Famers are the best team to ever be on Iowa. We have no chance. But this is a game. In Canada and David down the middle. This is one of those games where we're going to know after tomorrow night, what direction our conversations will go the rest of the week. I think so?

Oh, it'll set it back. It'll set it back or we'll move ahead. And Leaps cannot win one, lose one from here on end. It doesn't work. They've got to get an enroll. I had them in two-and-two in this road trip. And then they got a four-game home stand. They got Caroline on Thursday.

Abbs, lightning. And then Habs and Lightning, Saturday, Monday. And then they get five home games. Like they need to start winning two out of three games. Yeah. Win one, lose one is no good. No. But I do, you know, these are challenging games against good teams

that have had historic success in their building. I think, you know, you come out of here, 12 and 12, 12, and 1, go home and turn the dial up, man. Let's just say it right now. Joseph Wall has to be like Columbus good tomorrow night. He's going to do that every night. They get filled in most of the nights. They have to have him be good. They just have an interesting schedule pre-Christmas.

They do see the lightning and the Oilers, Capitals again, Dallas on the 21st. Some tough games. Interesting is one more. Yeah, interesting is not ideal. Terrifying is another word for it. Yeah. But there's some winnable games in there too. And fortunately, Kip and I will be working every single one.

We got a lot of games, me and you in December. Do we not? We do. When's our first one? 17th? My wife's charted the calendar. I don't know. I wake up and she tells me where to go.

No, I need you to wake up and tell me where to go. I'll just have my wife text to you directly. Perfect. I'll just text both of you guys. Perfect. Because I don't know anything. All right. Just like that.

our Leaf Edition is over. Peter DeBoer. Oh. A guy that a lot of people think could be on the on-deck circle for many clubs if they choose to make a change. Hmm. We'll get Peter DeBoer National next

when we return to Real Kipper and Bourne.