Strangers on a Bench - EPISODE 37: Pain Softens Your Heart

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

**Content warning : contains description of violent abuse**Tom Rosenthal approaches a stranger on a park bench and asks if he can sit down next to them and record their conversation.This is what happened! Produced by Tom RosenthalEdited by Rose De LarrabeitiMixed by Mike WoolleyTheme tune by Tom Rosenthal & Lucy Railton Incidental music by Maddie AshmanEnd music: 'My Friend Robin' by Edward CrossStream it here: https://ffm.to/myfriendrobin-------------------Instagram: @strangersonabench Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? What is your favourite day of the week? My favourite day is Friday because being a Muslim I think people gather for prayer and it's known to be like a special day, a day of celebration. You know you clean yourself, you get dressed, you meet others and there's this kind of spiritual aspect and a kind of community aspect to it. And also there's a belief that this is where God created the seven heavens and earth so it's a day of like celebration. It's also actually an honour in our faith to even pass away on the day of Friday.

It's like a good sign for a good ending. Oh okay! So do you think people are kind of aimed to die on that day sometimes? You pray for it. Not intentional. I like the idea that it's like 11.45 pm on a Thursday like oh come on give us 15 minutes take us away then and then you're absolutely flying. What were kind of And then you're absolutely flying. Yeah, yeah. What were kind of your early memories of those Fridays? I guess early memories is the golden time we had in school on the Friday.

And it was just a day where, you know, not schoolwork or learning or this and that. It's just you playing. So I remember that was a positive memory, I guess. And also you get this the smell of fish and chips on the Friday. Yeah that is a classic school Fridays. Yeah yeah so it was like something to look forward to you know during those days. So when did you start the kind of the Friday prep I mean is there an age where you start? Usually it depends on what kind of Friday prayer. I mean, is there an age where you start? Usually it depends on what kind of household, I guess.

I don't think I was involved, like, as a child maybe, but I would always see my parents dressing up to go to the mosque or something like that, or I'd see my brothers go out and they go to the mosque. To be fair, I don't feel like I got the experience that I should have got. You know, I think I was deprived of that, which had made me really sad.

But I think once I grew older and had a bit more freedom to go, and then I got to experience that, which I was a bit happier about. Were you deprived of that because of a parental choice, or you weren't allowed to be there? Yeah, it was a parental thing. Women aren't allowed to be there,

but I think it was my parents' idea or their version of the religion being implemented. Can I ask what was their version? Do you want me to... So what was their version that meant that you weren't allowed to go to the mosque? I think it was kind of to keep me isolated. The more I think about my childhood, I understand that there was a different motive by my father, I think. Yeah, I mean, I'd faced a lot of abuse from him,

and I think that was the motive, is to kind of keep hidden what he was doing to me, my mom, my brothers and things like that. So he would use that as a way to kind of enforce us or keep us, you know, manipulated or in fear. And it was done in a very harsh manner actually, it was almost like in an objectified way. What I got up front is you're not allowed to go because you're a girl, otherwise you're going to tempt other people. I'm just like, I'm a child, I just want to experience certain things, so why is it that I was restricted from all of this?

Because they would actually send me to certain Islamic schools, right? And then I got home and it was a completely different attitude, and I just used to think, wait a wait a minute but being taught this here this is the religion and you're showing me something else and telling me something else so I'll confront my dad and I'll say you're not allowed to do this you're not allowed to you know and then he got fed up of it he actually physically abused me and he I think it got to a point where I just ended up becoming silent. Sometimes there would be an urge to challenge his thoughts and things like that, especially when it came to protecting my mother.

And then the more I realised my mum was an enabler in all of this abuse, I stopped defending her. I think I eventually I kind of had to leave. Lots of questions for you, but do you recall when you were able to get into a mosque and pray? Actually, I do have one memory of, because I used to live near a Turkish mosque, and I specifically remember the chandelier that they had, it was like a big, beautiful chandelier, and it was blue, like a turquoise mosque, it's really calming and peaceful. And I think that's one of the memories I actually had of the mosque.

I've only been there maybe four times when I was a child. I actually took my friend there recently and then I guess reliving that experience was quite nice. Taking my friend and seeing her enjoy it. She has a daughter as well, so her daughter, and it was quiet, so her daughter was just running around free. Oh, that's lovely.

In the mosque. And it felt like a part of me healed, just to see someone else's child just run around in the mosque. Because I didn't get to do that. What are your prayers like now compared to your prayers of childhood and being isolated and if you can compare the two experiences? Is that a weird question? No, no, no, absolutely. I'm actually glad you asked that. It's, uh...

You know, it was very focused on... You just learn the actions of how to pray, and you recite certain prayers that you memorise. But, you know, the memorisation, it felt like... It also felt like a detachment, cos I was just being told to memorise these things I didn't understand. But now, they just come from the heart. I notice that pain softens your heart.

I think it creates empathy, deep empathy for others. I guess the ultimate goal is that it keeps me close to God, especially being so alone. I think my whole purpose is to build that relationship with God and if he sees that I'm getting attached to someone that might take me away from him, then he will take it away. At first I thought that was harsh, but I think that is,

I think that's the biggest gift that I could ever get. And I wouldn't want it any other way. I mentioned you talked earlier about your mum being like an enabler. Yeah. And it sounds like from the way you talk about her, like you're kind of almost more angry at her than your dad. Do you also feel at all that your dad did to her what he did to the rest of your family? Or do you feel like they're in like, they are equally bad?

I would put my dad at the hierarchy of it all. I am angry at my mum because I think she used her victimisation as a way to control me and keep me in the abuse. Not only was I being abused there, but I had to... ..support her, and by supporting her, I was an emotional punching bag. I remember my dad, at the time when he was working, he used to come home angry, frustrated. I think that's when he would physically abuse her, that time, I remember, because it used to happen a lot more in our childhood, and we would watch that, and sometimes she would feel frustrated.

She wouldn't let out that anger to him, so she would let out on me. So I remember once I was just prancing around in the living room and she was ironing. She got frustrated that I was maybe not listening to her or something. So she put the iron to my head. And obviously I started crying and then she felt bad for doing it. And I thought, oh because she felt bad, that means my mum's safe. But it was confusion, like, you hurt me with this, but then I saw her, oh because she felt bad, then that's okay. That was just my reasoning then to kind of cope, I guess.

Actually, my dad, who was getting really angry at my mum, and my brother was telling me, oh, go see what's happening downstairs. He was anxious, scared, and he told me to go downstairs, because that was my role, to go and save my mum. Go on and think. And I saw what he was doing, and he was shouting at her, and I said, you need to stop shouting. He slapped me. And then I remember I just...

And I was holding in my anger, so I just went full on on my dad, like physically. And then the police were involved. He actually ended up being arrested. And then what really hurt me is my mum was coming into the defence of my dad. I guess reflecting on it, I do feel angry. Do you ever kind of, do you feel like this is, you know, you can get anyone? I mean, I suppose it is pure luck who your parents are. Yeah.

What you're born into. But like, how much did you think about that? Kind of growing up or even now? Do you go like, what are the chances? There are those thoughts. Of course you have those thoughts sometimes. I think, oh, if I was in a more loving caring home like this, this. I feel like I shared a similar personality with someone who was maybe higher up

because they had a loving, caring, supporting family. They were able to achieve this. And I thought, oh man, I could have achieved this. So there was a constant unsettling in my heart, unrest. But also understanding that I don't choose my parents. And the more I understood my purpose, the easier it was to understand, and the more content I feel. And I think sometimes I do wish if someone saw my inner world to see how much peace I feel I think as I'm growing, I'm getting there I think just feeling more content about certain things. Because I think you you know, out of all this abuse and the religious, the sexual, the physical, the financial, whatever, is emotional abuse.

I think the biggest abuse was when I was taught, actually by my parents, that my Lord hates me. That's, I think that was the most painful because I felt like I was cut off access from the one thing that could have helped me get out of all this. So I stopped talking to God. I did things out of fear. You know, it was more fear based. I think when I was processing, I think that was the most painful one because I felt like I was already dead. Like, why am I here then?

So... And they're kind of cutting off your only outlet, I suppose, at the time. Yeah, exactly. As a child, I think I had a very deep connection to God anyway. Like, I felt... You know, I would see things, how He would reach out to me. I had a lot of spiritual dreams as well I thought I knew that God was talking to me in that way that

Prepared me for certain things One being that we believe in the Prophet peace be upon him so I remember I saw him in one of my dreams as a child and they say that these types of dreams if you see the Prophet then these are from God and I I saw him, and I remember he was in my kitchen, and I was just following him around. And I was like, I was very, I'm so happy to see you, I'm so glad you're here. But he was giving me, he was staring at my dad in a very like, scary way, like he was angry at him. So it kind of validated in a way where what my dad was doing to me wasn't okay. And I think those moments makes everything worth it, what I went through.

Because it felt very unique to me, the way God spoke to me, if it was through dreams and through certain things. People used to find me delusional, like, why does she speak like that? But I think that's the true vision of life and when you see things like that you just, nothing bothers you, you know. Whatever happens, happens. I feel like when you have that belief, not even a belief when you know that God is behind you. Nothing can shake you or break you. That's what it feels like. And it feels very powerful. How do you reconcile your parents' treatment of you with their views on religion and your upbringing?

Do you know what I mean? How do you make that make sense? I think it's understanding their intention. So there are certain things, like I want to keep my hijab on in certain places. They're like, no, it's okay, you don't have to wear it. But when it was for things that didn't apply, I would be told to wear it in the house.

I'm just like, but it's not, you know. So it just seemed like it was molded to them. And then it just became clear to me that, okay, these are not people that follow the same thing I want to follow. How I make my peace with that? Really, it's just what they've chosen, you know. It's like you go your own way, I'll go my own way.

In a way it's been freeing. I think when you stick to your own values and principles, it sets you free. Like you might not have a lot in the physical sense, but at least you're rich in the heart, you know. At least you can go to sleep or look yourself in the mirror or things like that. You mentioned, obviously, that story relating to wearing hijab inside when you were young. Do you remember those first moments of it being forced on you and how that felt? Yeah, it was in primary school and I never wanted to wear it. Like, I didn't understand. I'm just being told to wear something because I'm a girl. Like, okay, but why? You know, I didn't get the reason why.

Also, the veil, actually the veil was forced on me and I never wore it. And then when I actually started to learn more about my religion on my own, I actually had put it on. So I had put on the veil without force. What age is this? This was, I believe, 20... 21, 22. I was wearing it for five years.

So you were wearing a veil for five years? Yeah, on my own. Yeah, because when I started kind of being more in tune with the religion and practising a bit more, I kind of over-exerted myself. Because I was going through a lot of mental health issues, so I used to have panic attacks. I'd be wearing the veil and just be so much, I felt like I'd rip it off. I used to guilt trip myself, like, oh why am I feeling like this? So yeah, so that's why I took it off because I didn't want to resent the religious,

I didn't want to make it feel like, oh why am I doing this? Because I also had religious trauma as well. I think that kind of played a part in me taking it off. It wasn't that I hated the film. Honestly, when I first put it on, I felt like a, have you seen those games where like a player levels up and they have like a whole aura? That's literally how I felt when I put it on. So it's like I felt elevated, you know?

I felt like a queen because I wasn't confined to what people thought of me anymore. So that was the first intention. Yes. So is it because of the panic attack it finally came off? For good? No. So why did it finally come off? I actually went to therapy.

And I think although it started with a good intention, right, as a form of worship, act of worship to God. But then because it started to become burdening in a sense where I was starting to use it as safety. You know, being abused by men, I think. I felt like I could hide behind it. No one could look at me. It became like a form of protection.

I could fit in more, blend in more. And I think once I moved place, that's when I took it off. Because I used to get stalked a lot as well, and things like that. Stalked? By who? Strangers, past, relationship people. I was married before I was divorced,

so I feel like my face was a source of protection from him, so he didn't see me or recognise me. Yeah. So, you were married at some point? Yes, I was married in 2022, and then I divorced in 2023. So it was a year. So didn't what, I mean, you feel comfortable, like what was the whole experience like for you?

I'm guessing not good. Yeah, I've never divorced this at all. But that's quite quick. Yeah, it was quick. It was quick because I think he saw me as vulnerable and I think it was easier to kind of manipulate me I guess into a marriage. What was your wedding like?

It was not even a wedding. It was just a, what do you call it? Registration. Yeah, yeah. Kind of like that. So were your parents there or anything? No. I was at home but I didn't tell them.

I hadn't. Sorry, it's just a lot of... It's a lot of bits. Yeah. No, I don't even know. Right, sorry. You were at home at the time when you met... Yeah, I was working so I met him at work. Weirdly, I don't know if people ask this in job interviews,

but he was asking me if I was married and had children. In your job interview? Yeah. That's strange, right? That is quite strange. Yeah. And eventually he kind of expressed his motive. And weirdly enough, I don't think I'm the first person who's done this to.

Oh God, okay. And I think there are people that are more vulnerable than me. It gets very dark, I'll be honest, so. So how did you escape that? One actually one of the women I saw in that group she kind of asked me more about it, and I kind of just I Guess in my vulnerable state just letting out She goes this is not okay. What's happening to you?

And then what happened after that she was telling me you need to get out of this, you need to tell him. So I did, I think something hit me and then I just started to address it like head on. And before I think you could see that there was a fear in me when he used to say certain things that manipulated me. And now I'm just like, to hell with this. Where did that strength come from? You know, how did that happen, basically? I remember I was reciting a lot of the Qur'an at the time, and that was bringing me a lot of ease.

I was actually turning to the Qur'an for answers because my mind wasn't clear. I just thought, OK, I'm just going to keep reciting some verses. You know, we have these protection verses as well for things like this that happen. And I just kept reciting them and reciting them, and I just gradually felt like my spirit was just going, I felt like I was getting inner strength in me. And given that I've become, you know, isolated from everyone, because that was my only calling,

and I kind of got my strength from there and I left. And then you say he stalked you after that? No, no, sorry, he didn't stalk me after this, but he stalked me during. He would call me, he would say certain things like, oh I can see you, I was like where? He was like I'm seeing you from the car over there and he was watching while I was on the call and it was just a strange thing to do like if you're on the phone and I would just maybe

go to my local grocery shopping he's like I'm there in the car I can see you things like that so it was very scary. When I actually left I had made it seem I didn't have anyone I just made it seem that I had someone looking out for me. So I said, there are a lot of people that are coming out to get you, so I'm just saying things like that. Great line, great line. They're all coming for you. There's 20 of them, minutes out the back. I just had to make it seem that there was a lot of people behind.

You know the harsh side and the aggressive side of my father? So I think even though my dad, they don't have a relationship with him, I kind of made it seem like he was going to do something to him. Oh, okay, yes. And then part of me was just like, you know what, if they weren't I wouldn't even mind. At this point, it was like someone needs to hurt someone and they've both hurt me so it's better they just sit by each other. It's a quite good idea.

Yeah. How do you kind of... I just have a very dark hue, if I'm being honest. Yeah, I mean, it makes a lot of sense. How do you... Like, what do you do after that? I mean, what do you mean by after that? That's a big question, but how do you, like, what do you do after that? I mean, what do you mean? I mean, I suppose that's a big question,

but how do you, how do you, like, go about life after these things? Yeah, it's, it's very, very difficult. I think for me as a person, I'm very inward. I think I, I had to use my intuition a lot, I guess, to be very introspective. So from coming out of it, I think I had to start learning more and understanding why things happen. There was a lot of shame, there was a lot

of how can you settle for this or that. For me I understood that's all I'd known. You know they say that there's a, some people prefer a familiar hell than an unfamiliar heaven. Yeah. Right? I ended up hitting rock bottom, I guess, after that. After the divorce, you know, basically what you're saying, just during or during. There was another story, but then I went... Oh my God, the divorce is another story. Not the divorce, and then another thing happened, and that's when I hit rock bottom. Oh God.

Yeah. I mean, can you say briefly what that was? It was a repeat of kind of the divorce. What does that mean? So meaning that there was another man. I moved to another workplace workplace and then the same thing happened again. No.

Yeah. Again? That's when I hit rock-bomb, yeah. Hang on, but so you were married again then? Yeah. Oh, so you'd be married twice? Yeah. Yeah.

So how did it happen again? The same thing, it was just to say I was moved to another workplace and then the same thing happened again with control and things like that. Yeah because at that time I think mentally, physically, emotionally I was exhausted. I was self-harming as well and yeah it was just really tiring. I think I had had enough. And then I kind of went a bit into a depression and I ran into a psychotherapist because I was waiting for NHS for a very long time and they weren't responding.

And I felt like by the time they responded I would have probably killed myself. That's what it felt like. And so I just went independent and I just let it all out in the form there and then as soon as I did I got a call straight away from this private psychotherapist who has literally been light in my darkness and she

yeah she actually really helped me get out of it. I think if I hadn't gone to I generally felt like it would have been the same repeat again. And we just started unpacking all these things, like why and how. Because everything just seemed like a blur to me. And I know that I am going to slowly unpack things. And I almost feel like something heavy is about to fall on me. I think it is a very core wound or memory in a childhood that my brain is avoiding to not think. And I've always felt misunderstood, you know. My pain and my experiences and things like that, you know.

Do you think anyone has ever understood you? Yes. One of them would be a friend I had at the last, not the last workplace, but the workplace that traumatised me, the the workplace that traumatized me, the last workplace that traumatized me, I guess. She felt like a soul sister. Was this the one that warned, that said that wasn't okay, that's a separate, different version?

No, it's a different one, yeah. Talk to me about your soul sister. I remember the first time I met her, she was just very accommodating, very friendly, very kind. Immediately, I almost felt like there was a comfort there, you know. And I was telling her that I just feel like I've known you, you know, this and that. And I don't think she fully understood me, but I think she understood me to a level that I needed to be understood. She validated a lot of my feelings, a lot of my pain. It was

a hard woman to see someone I had, I found with empathy because I felt like I didn't have that for a long time. It was just overwhelming sometimes, like she would just ask me specific things, like, well, would you like this and that and... I think having someone say that to me for the first time. And I guess to get that one thing, you know, it just felt... Yeah, it felt like a warm hug. Yeah. Going forward in your life, how much do you want to use what has happened to you as a way of kind of springboarding into something positive or that might be helping others or

whatever that may be and how much of it do you just want to just forget it? Yeah, I guess maybe one now I'd want to go the psychology route and be maybe a psychotherapist and help other people. I think God has given me the ability to give someone very deep validation. I've done that in previous jobs, and that's something that really draws me. I just want someone to be heard.

Yeah, it's just... I think you've got it. I mean, not to jump too far ahead here, but I feel like you do have a lot of natural empathy in you. You know, I feel like I just feel that, you know? Yeah. And I feel like you would be able to help a lot of people if you went down that route. Not to say you should or you do what you want to do.

No, of course, yeah. I mean, it's only fair. And I've noticed things that some people, randomly, for the street, they'll just come and offload to me. I'm like, oh my, you're giving me a therapist fight. It's like, what's going on? Sometimes I do try to be intentional, so I'd wear green to show that I'm trying to be calm

and things like that. That is a good colour. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, there's a lot of people that are being, you know, misunderstood and they just need to be heard. I hope to hear them. So Joy, let's talk about Joy. Yeah. So joy, let's talk about joy. What was your last moment of joy in your life?

Hmm, very simple I guess. I enjoy feeding the birds. So I just did that probably before we came here. Also getting other people involved in those kind of things. I gave a few seeds to the mum so she can give it to her son to feed the birds. And I could just see the joy in him. So I was happy to be a part of that. Does that mean you always carry seeds with you? Yeah, bird food. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.

What's your seed, what's your bird feeding technique? You know what? Do you just like, obviously you've got to like spread it about a bit? Yeah, spread it about and then you know what some of the birds that are on the outside I noticed them and if you throw it at them they run away so I thought I'm gonna go somewhere far I'll drop the seeds there in hoping that they would go and find that. Oh the sweet birds on the outside. The outside yeah. Any favorite birds? Anyone's you're particularly attached to,

might get a few more seeds. You know what Robin, I've been feeding recently. There is one Robin outside my window that comes often to say hello. So I would give it food and stuff like that. You know what, one of my weird dreams I had as a child was I wanted to be a farmer and I just like, I don't know, I just like the field, I just like the openness and I feel like the sky was my ceiling so, because every time we used to drive out of London far and I would just look at the fields and I

think oh man it would be so cool to just run around in the fields, probably not to be a farmer but I just like the scenario of what a farmer was around. That's what farmers do, they just run around in the fields. It was just so freeing you know, it looked very freeing and I felt like I'd enjoyed it being a farmer. Can we, can we, can something happen? I don't know, I doubt it, I really doubt it. How does one just find a farm? Just find a farm. Let's just find a farm. Yeah. Yeah what is your dream farm actually now that we're here? You know what it is, when I imagine a farm I just think, you know the tall grass, enough where I can, I feel like I'm covered but I can just run through it so no one sees me,

you know? Yes, yes it is. So that's what it feels like I would want, so I could just run. Run around? Yeah. I love the idea, you get on your farm and just do the sprinting around, people walk past you, is that the sprinting around the farm? Yeah.

The sprinting farmer. Exactly. There you go. Are you a good runner? No. You've met us just to practice. Actually, in another way. You are a good runner.

I'm a very good runner. You run from a lot of stuff. Yeah, there you go. You know, I really love to do archery as well. I feel like I would have good aim. Why do you feel like you would have good aim at Vintres? I don't know. I feel like... Do you just feel it? Yeah, and usually when I was a kid I used this thing where I'd scrunch a piece of paper and throw it in the... and I was always very accurate with that. I remember we had a water balloon fight during childhood with my friends

at school and I could predict that they were going to walk through under the posts so I thought I'd hit the posts and the water would fall down on them. So yeah, I was quite good with throwing stuff I guess. Perfect, perfect. So great. Yeah, you were. I suppose I've got to ask you the last question which is what are you going to do next? I'm going to go back into uni, study, do what I need to do, head down I guess, focus on healing, I'm going to take a nap. I hope it's a lovely rest of the day for you. Thank you. Thank you very much. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You