Tangle - The DHS shutdown ends.
Episode Date: May 5, 2026On Thursday, April 30, the House of Representatives passed legislation to fund the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and end the department’s 76-day shutdown, the longest shutdown in U....S. government history. The House of Representatives and the Senate each had passed separate bills to end the shutdown; on Thursday, the House approved the Senate’s legislation in a voice vote under suspension of the rules, and President Donald Trump signed the bill into law the same day.Ad-free podcasts are here!To listen to this podcast ad-free, and to enjoy our subscriber only premium content, go to ReadTangle.com to sign up!Isaac on Breaking Points.Executive Editor Isaac Saul’s Friday report on allegations of corruption in the second Trump administration has driven a massive response across the Tangle community — and among those who are newly discovering his work. This morning, Isaac went on Breaking Points with Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti to discuss the piece. You can check out the interview on their YouTube channel at 3:00 PM ET.You can read today's podcast here and today’s “Have a nice day” story here.You can subscribe to Tangle by clicking here or drop something in our tip jar by clicking here. Take the survey: What do you think will be the impact of the DHS shutdown? Let us know.Our Executive Editor and Founder is Isaac Saul. Our Executive Producer is Jon Lall.This podcast was written by: Will Kaback and audio edited and mixed by Dewey Thomas. Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.Our newsletter is edited by Managing Editor Ari Weitzman, Senior Editor Will Kaback, Lindsey Knuth, Bailey Saul, and Audrey Moorehead. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
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From executive producer Isaac Saul, this is Tangle.
Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and welcome to the Tangled podcast, a place
where you get views from across the political spectrum, some independent thinking, and a little bit
of our take.
I'm your host today, Senior Editor Will Quebec.
Today we're going to be covering the end of the shutdown of the Department of Homeland Security.
The shutdown began all the way back on February 14th of this year, and it spanned 76 days until Congress passed a funding measure to reopen the department last week.
So we're going to be taking a 30,000-foot view and asking the core question of what was the point of this shutdown?
What did it accomplish?
What norms were potentially undermined or made more fragile?
And what can we expect the longer-term consequences to be?
We'll get into the full details in a second, but before we jump into today's topic,
I wanted to flag that Isaac is appearing on breaking points with Crystal Ball and Sager and Jetty
this morning to discuss his much-discussed Friday edition from last week about the allegations of corruption in the second Trump administration.
We've done a lot of promotion of that piece on our end,
and it is driven a massive response across the Tangle community, across social media,
on our website in the comments section over email,
on our texting service substack, on our Reddit page,
all of the above.
And that engagement has started to get the piece noticed
by some people outside of the community,
including Sagar and Crystal,
who reached out and invited Isaac on to talk more about the piece.
It was a great interview.
It was conducted this morning.
It's up on their YouTube channel now.
We'll drop a link to it in the show notes for today.
And if you're interested in hearing Isaac talk a little bit more
about what went into that piece
and what he discovered over the process
of reporting on it. You can hear it in that interview. All right, now I'm going to pass it over to
John to get us started on today's topic, and then I will be back in a bit to read my take.
John, over to you.
Thanks, Isaac, and welcome, everybody. Here are your quick hits for today. First up, the United Arab
Emirates said that multiple missiles were launched toward its territory from Iran. The missiles were
intercepted or fell into the sea. The country also blamed Iran for a series of fires at UAE
fuel facilities and on ships off of its coast. Separately, the United States said it sank
several Iranian military boats that had fired missiles at commercial vessels in the Strait of
Hermuz. The incidents potentially imperil the U.S.-Iran ceasefire. Number two, the Secret Service said
its agents exchanged gunfire with a suspect near the White House, causing the building to briefly lock
down. The suspect was shot and is currently hospitalized, but further details have not been released.
A 15-year-old bystandard was also shot and sustained non-life-threatening injuries.
Number three, Florida Governor Ron DeSanta signed into law a new congressional map that could net Republicans four additional seats in the U.S. House.
The map is expected to face legal challenges.
Number four, the Supreme Court issued an unsigned order granting a request to immediately finalize its opinion in Louisiana v. Calais, which found that one of Louisiana's majority black congressional districts was unconstitutionally gerrymandered based on race.
The decision will allow the state to adopt a new map before the 26 midterms.
Justice Katanji Brown Jackson dissented.
And number five, the Justice Department officially ended its investigation into Federal Reserve
Chair Jerome Powell over the cost of the central banks renovation project in Washington, D.C.
U.S. Attorney for D.C., Janine Piro, said that the Inspector General for the Federal Reserve
is launching an inquiry into the project.
The longest federal department shutdown in U.S. history is now over.
President Donald Trump signed a bill yesterday.
to fund most of the Department of Homeland Security,
restoring money for the Coast Guard and TSA.
It does not include money for ICE and Border Patrol.
Lawmakers are working on a separate plan for those agencies.
The president expects that package on his desk by June 1st.
On Thursday, April 30th,
the House of Representatives passed legislation
to fund the Department of Homeland Security
and end the Department's 76-day shutdown,
the longest shutdown in U.S. government history.
The House of Representatives and the Senate each had passed separate bills to end the shutdown.
On Thursday, the House approved the Senate's legislation in a voice vote under suspension of the rules,
and President Donald Trump signed the bill into law the same day.
For context, the shutdown began on February 14th amid tensions over the Trump administration's
immigration enforcement efforts, with Democrats refusing to fund the department without significant reform
to immigration and customs enforcement and Customs and Border Patrol.
DHS oversees ICE and CBP, as well as a host of other agencies, including the Transportation
Security Administration, the Cyber Security and Infrastructure Security Agency, the Federal Emergency
Management Agency, the U.S. Coast Guard, and the Secret Service. While the shutdown paused funding
for most DHS departments, the One Big Beautiful Bill Act provided advance funding for ICE and CBP,
allowing them to continue full operations. You can check out our previous coverage of the shutdown
with links in today's episode description.
The end of the shutdown comes after a weeks-long standoff between House and Senate Republicans.
The House of Representatives would not consider a unanimous Senate bill to fund all of DHS except
its immigration enforcement agencies.
Then, on April 29th, the House voted to adopt a Senate resolution to increase ICE and CBP
budgets by about $70 billion.
Following the approval of the Senate's budget proposal, the White House reportedly sent a memo
urging the House to approve the DHS funding bill and end the shutdown.
On May 4th, Republicans in the House and Senate released the text of their plan, with $72 billion in total funding.
The bill contains $38.2 billion for ICE, $26 billion for CBP, and smaller amounts for DHS, the Justice Department, and the Secret Service.
GOP leaders are aiming to pass a bill by June 1st.
Representatives of both parties welcome the end of the shutdown and blame the opposition for its length.
House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffrey said,
for more than two months, Donald Trump and House Republicans have kept the Department of Homeland Security shut down
because of their toxic demand to spend billions of taxpayer dollars on ICE brutality.
Today, the extremists back down.
Representative Andrew Garberino, Republican from New York and chair of the House Committee on Homeland Security, said,
for 76 days, congressional Democrats forced a shutdown of the Department of Homeland Security.
While the majority of the department has now been funded,
I remain committed to ensuring every component of DHS, including those tasked with border security,
has the resources and oversight needed to succeed.
Roughly 1,100 CISA staff reportedly left the agency during the shutdown.
TSA staffing had a turnover of 8%,
nearly double its usual rate of 4.6%,
according to DHS Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen.
Today, we'll get into what writers from the left and writers saying about the end of the shutdown.
And then senior editor Will Kayback will give his take.
We'll be right back after this quick break.
All right.
First of let's start with what the right is saying.
The right expresses urgency around funding DHS and its defense activities.
Some say the extended funding lapse has degraded DHS operations beyond border security.
Others criticize congressional Democrats for long refusing to end the shutdown.
In the Daily Wire, Todd Lindberg wrote,
America can't afford the high cost of a reactive defense.
A security camera capture video of the alleged would-be assassin charging through a magnetometer
at the White House Correspondents dinner Saturday night.
The partial government shutdown affecting the Department of Homeland Security
didn't have any direct impact on the effectiveness of the response on Saturday.
But with the shutdown now in its 11th week, Congress is playing with fire, Lindbergh said.
Much of the activity of prevention consists of informed speculation about what might happen.
The idea is to map out plausible sequences of events leading to a bad outcome, then to derail
the sequence.
A lot of planning and wargaming is essential to getting ahead of potential threats.
Yet the partial shutdown at DHS has forced much of this activity to close shes.
job as non-essential, Lindbergh wrote. The Secret Service in the Transportation Security Administration
were both on the scene Saturday to perform essential functions, and they did their jobs. Because
Democrats loathe the Trump administration's immigration policies, it falls to the GOP to find ways
to fund DHS. Never has non-essential been so essential. In Times Republican, Representative Randy
Thinstra, the Republican from Iowa argued, the DHS funding lapse has strained homeland security.
operationally, agencies are struggling to pay vendors, maintain facilities, and support critical travel.
These are not just abstract problems. They have direct consequences. At our reports of entry,
CBP facilities risk losing essential services, including utilities and communications if payments lapse,
Feinstra said. Law enforcement officers incurred travel expenses they may not be reimbursed for,
adding further strain on their families. Training programs across multiple agencies have also been
canceled, and critical cybersecurity efforts have been scaled back, increasing vulnerabilities
to foreign adversaries.
The impacts extend far beyond just border enforcement.
FEMA announced that it is nearing depletion of its disaster relief fund, which has been a lifeline
for communities like Rock Valley when responding to emergencies and natural disasters.
TSA staffing shortages contributed to longer airport wait times, delayed flights, and even flights
being canceled, Fienstra said.
Let's be clear.
This is not about partisanship.
It is about ensuring that the men and women who defend our country have the support they need to do their jobs.
It is about maintaining the operational integrity of the agencies that safeguard our borders, respond to our disasters, and prevent attacks.
In town hall, Jenny Beth Martin said, now is the time to fund the Department of Homeland Security.
Democrats are determined not to fund ICE and CBP, lest they offend the radical base that demands defunding all law enforcement authorities
and lose the basis engagement and turnout in the upcoming midterm elections, Martin wrote.
When many of us advocated for a shutdown in 2013 rather than providing funding to implement Obamacare,
we knew that Republicans would bring the shutdown to an end if the Democrats were unwilling to negotiate,
and we knew that we would have to make our case to the American people in elections,
working to persuade more people to our side.
By contrast, the Democrats who now refuse to vote to fund DHS or even allow the bill to come to the floor of the Senate
so that it can be funded by the votes of others, do not care about making.
making their case against DHS funding electorally, Martin said.
They are not denying the agency funding to draw attention to a political issue.
They are denying funding to the agency because they want to eliminate it.
They want what they want, and they want it right now, and the consequences be damned.
All right, that is for what the right is saying, which brings us to what the left is saying.
Many on the left argue Republicans caved on the DHS shutdown.
Some suggest that shutdown's ending was historically unique.
Others framed the lack of ICE and CBP funding as a win for Democrats.
In New York Magazine, Ed Kilgore said,
The shutdown finally ends.
The surrender occurred as part of an extremely complicated series of developments
in the House Republican caucus this week
that involved deals over FISA reauthorization,
a farm bill, and a budget resolution setting up a budget reconciliation measure
to pre-fund the immigration enforcement functions
left out of the DHS bill to secure Democratic votes, Kildor wrote.
With this assurance that unencumbered money for ICE
and the Border Patrol is on its way,
House Republicans apparently decided to stop taking hostage the rest of DHS, including TSA, FEMA,
the U.S. Coast Guard, the Secret Service, and various anti-terrorism programs.
Members of both parties probably have mixed feelings about the DHS shutdown now that it's finally over.
Democrats got the opportunity to talk for weeks about the abuses of ICE and CBP agents
and to display to rest of elements of the party base their ability to stay unified while fighting Trump,
Kilcourt said.
Republicans got the opportunity to find a way to stuff ICE and
CBP full of even more funding than they had before without having to consider or adopt any of the
guardrails on their conduct that Democrats were demanding. And in the end, nobody in the House in either
party had to go on the record supporting or opposing the measure that ended the shutdown thanks to
the voice vote device. In MS Now, James Downey argued House Republicans caved and changed the politics
of government shutdowns. For the first time, the side precipitating a government shutdown
neither had to cave in the end nor suffer a backlash for holding out.
It seems that at least for now, the politics of shutdowns have fundamentally changed.
It should be acknowledged at this point that unlike last year's shutdown shutdowns,
this one department and not the whole government down, he wrote.
The shift in shutdown politics may be a function of two circumstances,
but neither is changing soon.
It certainly helps Democrats that congressional Republicans can barely keep their ship afloat.
The relationship between Johnson and Senate Majority Leader John Thune is frosty at best.
And while Republicans' narrow House majority would challenge any Speaker, Johnson's tenure has
consisted largely of disorganization punctuated by last-minute scrambles to push through multi-pass bills,
Downey said. With midterms looming, Congress could punt the next round of funding bills until
after votes are cast as it did in 2024. But with even some Republicans expecting Democrats
to flip the House and perhaps the Senate, a postponement could hurt the GOP's leverage.
Regardless of the date for the next funding fight, though, Democrats should reprise and even deepen the
resolved they showed in this one. In the new republic, Hafiz Rashid wrote, Republicans caved on the
shutdown without funding ICE. The bill, passed by a voice vote in the House, is a win for Democrats,
as it still includes no money for ICE or Border Patrol and is now headed to President Trump's
desk to be signed into law. House Speaker Mike Johnson reportedly decided to finally support the bill
after a private meeting with his fellow Republican leaders earlier in the day, where they agreed
that the situation couldn't continue, Rashid said. Previously, House Rep. House
Republicans had criticized their counterparts in the Senate for passing the measure with a voice vote,
which doesn't record individual members' votes, only to adopt the same method on Thursday.
DHS Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen complained last week that the department was almost out of money
and soon wouldn't be able to pay its employees. Now, assuming that Trump doesn't veto the bill,
employees will still be paid, Rashid said. But the question of ICE's future is still unanswered,
as Democrats want the agency reformed at minimum, with some calling for its abolition. And Republicans seem to be
fine with the violence of visits on American cities. For now, at least, ICE won't get any more money.
All right, let's head over to Will for his take.
Thanks, John. All right, here's my take.
So this is the way the shutdown ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper. Maybe it's just me,
but I expected a record-shattering shutdown of a purportedly critical federal department, no less,
to feel like it meant something.
Instead, very little seems to have changed, except maybe that our government dysfunction has deepened.
DHS is responsible for ensuring homeland security, and while 76 days with a partially operational department
likely weakened our security apparatus in many invisible ways, the department's partial shutdown
didn't upend the federal government. Instead, it was more like a rash,
flaring up on occasion like the airport waitlines,
but mostly melting into the background
as a kind of low-grade annoyance.
Now that the Department of Homeland Security's external problems
are over, however, its internal problems are just beginning.
During the shutdown, critical DHS agencies
were forced to scale back important functions.
For instance, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, FEMA,
restricted disaster-related travel,
and the Coast Guard withstood energy shortages
at duty stations as it racked up millions in unpaid utility bills.
Then there's the staffing issues.
Roughly 1,100 cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency workers
have left since mid-February,
a massive reduction for an agency that was already struggling with headcount.
And last week, DHS shared that over 1,000 transportation security administration officers
also left the agency during the shutdown.
While it's a relief that the remaining TSA workers will,
again have a reliable paycheck. Replacing 1,000 employees lost in 2.5 months, even at a 50,000 person
agency will take time, time that the TSA doesn't have. As the DHS stress before the shutdown ended
last week, quote, ahead of the FIFA World Cup and summer travel, this employee loss has significantly
decreased TSA's ability to meet passenger demand and left critical gaps in staffing, end quote.
The issue is at CESA. Again, that's the same.
cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency are similar.
The agency's operations were already floundering pre-shutdown due to a lack of a Senate-confirmed
agency head.
Now, with elevated cybersecurity threats to the U.S. amid the Iran war, the agency tasked
with cybersecurity and infrastructure protection across all levels of government is operating
with a skeleton crew.
In April, acting director Nick Anderson testified that CESIS's capacity to counter cyber
threats was, quote, more limited than I would like, end quote, saying that many of its core functions
were, quote, simply not possible or legally allowed during the period of a shutdown. As with the
TSA, those challenges won't be resolved overnight simply by the shutdown ending. It's difficult to
assess the full scope of these less tangible costs, but we know from past shutdowns that they can be
pervasive. A study of the 2018-19 government shutdown found it correlated with a 48% increase. It
increasing quit rates among federal workers, with more experienced workers also being most likely to
depart. Another report on the 2013 shutdown found, quote, employees exposed to furloughs were 31% more
likely to leave their jobs within one year. Now, I know the Trump administration and others might see
a long-term headcount reduction as a positive, but I'm not so sure. For one, these agencies
all strike me as fairly critical.
I don't think anyone Trump included
is arguing that a hollowed-out
TSA would be a good thing.
For one, these agencies
within DHS all strike
me as critical. And I don't think
most people Trump included
are arguing that a hollowed-out TSA
would be a good thing.
And while the president has railed against
SISA for undermining his claim
that the 2020 election was fraudulent,
the rest of us don't have to accept
that framing. We're fighting a war
against a country known for perpetrating cyber attacks,
and tech companies are currently sounding the alarms
about powerful AI models that can be leveraged for cyber warfare.
Amid all of that, I want a cybersecurity agency
that's beefing up its staffing, not hemorrhaging it.
I'm also worried about how this shutdown contributed
to an observable erosion of constitutional norms.
When we covered the shutdown at the end of March,
I wrote that President Trump's memorandum
to reshuffle federal funds to pay TSA work,
was, quote, a significant expansion of Trump's claimed power to use federal funds for purposes that
Congress hasn't approved, end quote. A kind of quiet pilfering of the legislative branch's power of
the purse. Well, Trump's order was indeed executed without resistance from Republican leaders.
And yes, TSA agents got paid and the long airport lines mostly dissipated.
But what's to stop the president or a future one from deploying the same tactic to resolve the next
inconvenient budget fight. The coming reconciliation battle also looms large. Remember, the recently signed
funding package doesn't fund ICE or border patrol, but Republicans are moving ahead with a plan to pass
$72 billion in new funds for immigration enforcement through reconciliation, which they can
pass with a simple majority in the Senate. This was the same tool that Congress used to pass the one
big beautiful bill act last year, which allowed immigration agencies to operate unaffected during this
most recent DHS shutdown. Of course, Republicans can't just waive reconciliation like a magic wand to do
this. Key roadblocks do remain. They'll have to survive the Byrd Rule, which bars provisions that
do not primarily affect federal spending or revenue, as well as other rulings from Senate
parliamentarian Elizabeth McDonough, who previously blocked Democrats from putting immigration-related
measures in their 2021 reconciliation bill. And of course, swing-vote Republican senators like Lisa Murkowski
from Alaska and Susan Collins from Maine are not a guaranteed yes on this package.
But if Republicans can pass CBP and ICE funding through reconciliation, any leverage to reform
these agencies will be effectively killed for years to come. While this is less constitutionally
alarming than Trump's memorandum, this new norm still undermines the traditional appropriations
process, which provided an annual check on agency policies. That's something important
and I think it's a huge loss too.
I'm left not only distressed but perplexed.
Democrats bet that ISIS's sagging popularity
gave them leverage to demand sweeping reforms,
but now it looks like they're going to get nothing.
Republicans may not have come to the negotiating table in good faith,
but at least for a brief period during the shutdown,
the White House floated moderate reforms like body cameras for agents
and identification requirements.
Now, perhaps Democrats are concerned.
content to settle for whatever electoral boost that appearing to fight on DHS reform will offer.
But now they're staring down the distinct possibility that they'll get zero reforms and ICE will
be funded for years to come. I can't help but shake my head when I see Democratic leaders
framing last week's funding package as the GOP, quote, caving. Remind me, what exactly did Republicans
lose here? Now, Republicans, meanwhile, are teed up to achieve their short-term goals.
goal of passing advanced funding for immigration enforcement, but at what long-term cost?
I'm reminded of the gerrymandering fight playing out right now across the country, a race to the
bottom to accomplish short-term political goals to the detriment of functioning democratic governance.
Democrats are guilty of abusing reconciliation too. The Inflation Reduction Act is just one recent
example. And I worry that this saga will only emboldened both sides. We may be entering the age of
unaccountable, preemptively funded agencies carrying out a president's agenda without fear of oversight.
So maybe it's that the DHS shutdown isn't ending with a whimper, but more of a subtle crack,
a tap of a hammer to a fragile foundation. We may not feel the effects immediately, or even in the
weeks and months ahead, but the foundation is weaker nonetheless, and there's no telling how many more
blows it can sustain. We'll be right back after this.
quick break. All right, that is it for my take. Now let's jump into today's reader question.
This question is from Ben in Norfolk, Virginia. And he asks, in your Sunday edition this week,
you wrote, quote, on Thursday, the Senate voted unanimously to pass a ban on senators trading on
prediction markets, such as Calcian Polymarket, amid rising concern over insider trading, end quote.
What are the penalties if a senator ignores the ban? Does the ban cover family members and
business associates? Is there a similar ban in the House, the executive branch, and the judicial
branch? Here's our response. Last week, the U.S. Senate unanimously passed a rule preventing senators,
officers, and staff from betting on prediction markets, effective immediately. The ban is not law,
but rather an amendment to Rule 37 of the standing rules of the Senate, and it applies only
to senators and their staff, not their family, business associates, or members of the House of
representatives. Although the text of the amendment is not yet publicly available, the rule it's
amending prohibits senators and their staff from profiting off of the office in any way that conflicts
with their duties. So adding text to apply to prediction markets is straightforward to imagine.
The standing rules of the Senate are enforced by the Senate Select Committee on Ethics, a bipartisan
commission that hears and investigates reports of violations of this code. Repercussions for violations
can range from reprimand to censure to suspension from office, up to expulsion.
Currently, the House's Code of Ethics does not have any regulations preventing its members
from placing bets on prediction markets.
At the federal level, the judicial branch does not have a similar ban either, nor does
the executive branch, although the White House has issued a formal warning to its staff
against placing trades or bets using private information.
At the state level, New York, California, Illinois, and Maryland have all included similar ethics provisions in their official codes of conduct.
All right, that is it for today's reader question.
I'll pass it back over to John to take us through the rest of the newsletter.
We'll talk to you tomorrow.
Have a great day.
Thanks, Will.
Here's a new segment called This Day in History.
After several decades of instability, the Mexican government announced in 1861 that it would suspend all payments to its European creditors.
for two years. Spain and the United Kingdom would cut deals with Mexico, but French Emperor Napoleon
III had designs on taking Mexico by force. Napoleon III wanted to establish a colony to the south of
the United States, then embroiled in civil war, and used that position to trade with the Confederacy
for Cotton, a resource made scarce in Europe by the Union's blockade. In 1862, well-trained French troops
marched from Veracruz to take the capital of Mexico City. However, they were dealt a startling defeat
by a mix of volunteers and conscripts under the command of General Ignacio Zaragoza outside Pueblo on May 5th.
Although France would eventually go on to control much of Mexico in 1863 through 1867,
the surprise victory delayed France's advance, arguably giving Union forces time to establish control in the American Civil War.
The upset was heralded as a moment of national pride in Mexico, and May 5th, Cinco de Mayo,
would eventually become a celebration of Mexican heritage internationally, especially among Mexican-Americans.
By 1863, Mexican Americans in California were already commemorating the date,
treating it as a political and cultural moment tied to resistance and democracy.
Selamoto Casper, the executive director of Latinos and Heritage Conservation, said,
you'll have to forgive me in advance.
I'm going to try my best with the Polish pronunciations here.
But here is your have-nice day story.
Polish YouTuber Piotr Hanke has built an online following for rapping under the name Watful gang.
Now he has a different claim to fame.
setting the marathon live streaming record for fundraising,
netting $76 million for children battling cancer.
In a nine-day session from his Warsaw apartment,
Hanka brought on celebrity guests,
including Coldplay's Chris Martin and tennis star Igastjantec,
drawing 1.5 million viewers to the finale.
All told, Hanku netted over 276 million Polish Zwarte
in donations to the Cancer Fighters Foundation,
a Polish organization supporting children with cancer.
This simply isn't about us.
It's about children and everyone who has no choice but to fight this injustice, Hong has said.
Let's change the way we think about cancer forever.
It's not a death sentence.
We will overcome it and fight it.
People has this story and there's a link in today's episode description.
All right, everybody, that is it for today's episode.
As always, if you'd like to support our work, please go to retangle.com,
where you can sign up for a newsletter membership, podcast membership, or a bundled membership that gets you a discount on both.
We'll be right back here tomorrow.
For Isaac and the rest of the crew, this is John Lull signing off.
Have a great day, y'all.
Peace.
Our executive editor and founder is me.
Isaac Saul and our executive producer is John Wall.
Today's episode was edited and engineered by Dewey Thomas.
Our editorial staff is led by managing editor Ari Weitzman
with senior editor Will Kayback and associate editors Audrey Moorhead, Lindsay Canuth, and Bailey Saul.
Music for the podcast was produced by Diet 75.
To learn more about Tangle and to sign up for a membership,
please visit our website at retangle.com.
