The Ben Mulroney Show - Premiers scuffling/A deeper dive into Cosmetic Surgery

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

GUEST:   DAN Julien / Board Certified Nurse Practitioner / Danesthetics Medical Design Guest: Tony Chapman, Host of the award winning podcast Chatter that Matters, Founding Partner of Chatter AI Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to the Ben Mulroney show. It is Monday, December 1st, and yes, I am back. I just spent a week in Israel where I got to know that country in a way that I think you have to go to appreciate. And yes, it was paid for by the Israeli government. And no, I am not a share. for the Israeli government. I mean, it's as simple as that. It's up.

If you want to make that accusation about me, and many have, you have to prove it. You want to say that? Come correct with receipts. Because going there is, and the way I did it, and the questions I had and the questions I put to the authorities, I thought were fair, and they came from a place of critical thinking. and I think I came back with a better appreciation of what we talk of, excuse me, what we talk about on this show. And that's all I have to say.

You want to accuse me of anything? Prove it. Otherwise, sit down. While I was away, I saw some news that we'll file under the header. Love it when Canada gets in its own way to hear that Nutrient, the world's largest potash producer out of Saskatchewan, plans to build a $1 billion potash export terminal and they're going to be shipping their products

to the growing Asian markets. Big news, right? Great news. Big, great Canadian company vital to the food supply chain around the world is out there spreading its product and getting paid for it, which then in turn makes Canada better

because they pay taxes on that. So really great news that they're building it. a $1 billion export terminal. Bad news is they're building it in Washington State. They could go to B.C. They should have gone to B.C. But they didn't go to B.C.

Let's listen to the Premier of British Columbia as to where the blame lays in this issue. Unfortunately, instead of having conversations with British Columbia about this project, the Premier of Saskatchewan says he was engaged with Premier Smith. about this pipeline project proposal. Because of that, in my opinion, Nutrient made the decision to ship out of Washington State instead of out of British Columbia. Premier Moe and I should have been working together on addressing bottlenecks. Okay, so the Premier is adamant that the issue here is Premier Mo of Saskatchewan. That's why there is no $1 billion investment in this terminal in British Columbia.

Well, according to Nutrium, that's not necessarily the case. The people who made the decision said that the company cited perceived bottlenecks and potential labor disruptions at Canadian ports and on Canadian railways as significant factors in its decision. So that's why he said. Now let's go to Premier Mo. Premier Moe was on a radio station on CKOM in Saskatchewan on the Evan Bray show. And it's a longer clip, but let's listen to Scott Moe, lay out what happened.

Well, my reaction is when someone makes a decision not to invest in your area, you should have a look in the mirror and not start to blame others. And, you know, listen, I'll, when it comes to Premier EBC's, you know, opposition to this pipeline, I'll just put out a parallel thing that has happened over the last few years. There's an LNG line that's proposed to go to Hudson Bay. It would go through Saskatchewan and it would have no Saskatchewan, LNG, unit would come from British Columbia or Alberta is where the LNG would be sourced.

We're very positive and supportive of that project. To the point that four years ago, we had provided some seed funding to an indigenous organization called First People's Pipe to start to consult along the way so that the communities could have their say four years ago for a project that is now

coming forward today. Premier E.B. has done none of that work with respect to this particular project. And if we're truly going to be part of and give an effort to being part of team Canada. Every team I've played on, I want all of the players to score, not just myself. And, you know,

Premier EBE isn't sharing, you know, that same approach to this, to this project. He feels that he can pick and choose which projects are going to, you know, land on on the, on the, in the Canadian West Coast ports. And that just simply isn't the way. Yeah, look, I don't

pretend to know everything that's going on in British Columbia. I don't pretend to be an expert in it. I just go with what I hear and what I read and the words that come out of the premier of British Columbia's mouth. And when he speaks, the tone he sets is that he and coastal first nations are the gatekeepers on anything that goes in or out of British Columbia. Now, from a legal and constitutional standpoint, that's false. That's completely false.

It falls in the exclusive domain of the federal government. But when you hear constantly, no, no, this isn't. going to happen. No, it's never going to have. You're never going to get a pipeline. It's never going to happen. You're not going to get buy-in. We say no. You hear that enough. You're not going to engage with those people. If, look, when, it's an expression that a lot of politicians use. But when somebody, like, and traditionally it comes from like conservatives, right? But I remember my dad said it. I know that Ronald Reagan said it. I know that Doug Ford said it. When they were on the campaign trail, they would say that their respective jurisdictions are open

for business. We are open for business, meaning the prior administration made it very hard to do business. We are going to make it easier to do business. David Eby is not just laying the groundwork. He's saying we're closed. British Columbia is closed for development of natural resources as far as getting them to other markets. So when you keep hearing that, why would you bother engaging with them? They went through the path of least resistance into a place that was more than happy to welcome them, which was Washington State, and thereby missing out on a billion dollar investment. And that's the initial investment. That's not, like, this is a terminal that's going to be open for decades. I mean, just think about when they need

to expand and the jobs that are going to come from it. And then the knock-on effects in those communities with stores and restaurants and infrastructure being built to support this growing workforce. You hear no enough, you're not going back to that well. If they say the wells run dry, you're going to go find another well. And they found it in just south in Washington State. And should Scott Moe or anybody be surprised as we talk about this new deal between Alberta and the federal government on building a new pipeline to the West Coast.

Let's listen to what the BC Green Leader said about this proposed pipeline. This pipeline will never happen and we'll make fucking sure of it. So Mark Carney and Daniel Smith just came out today with a memorandum of understanding, putting their support behind a new oil pipeline that would be rammed through BC's coast without our consent and without the consent of coastal First Nations. This is a spit in the face to British Columbians to our economy and our environment. We tried this a decade ago. We tried it with the Northern Gateway Pipeline.

We tried it with Trans Mountain. And guess what? Private proponents pulled out and left working people with $50 billion in debt. But now it's even worse. Oil prices are down and they won't recover. If we have a spill, coastal First Nations and northern communities' livelihoods will be destroyed for generations. Yeah. Okay.

There's a lot there. There's a lot there. But this is a woman who is scaring off investment. It's as simple as that. It doesn't matter. We're talking about a pipeline there, but could just as easily be the potash export terminal. It doesn't matter.

It's the same thing. This woman is part of the problem. You want to know why investment's not coming to British Columbia? It's because of this. And when she says that we went through this a decade ago, we went through this a decade ago because Justin Trudeau made damn sure nobody would want to invest in a pipeline. He made damn sure with investment killing.

regulation. That's why business pulled out. You make the business case. The business case is made in reaction to the regulatory environment and the tax environment. You make that so onerous, nobody's going to want to invest. It's pretty simple. So you want to compare that to this? It's a disingenuous bad faith argument. I also love the fact that this woman is able to predict, predict that the price of oil is never going to come up again. Yeah, in the back, in the front seat of a car, she makes that prediction. All right, up next, something a bit different for this show. Are you getting or thinking of getting some cosmetic work done?

Stick around. Welcome back to the Ben Mulroney show, and I want to welcome you wherever we find you. You know, back in the day, you would just be on the radio, but not in 2025. in 2025, you've got to go where the people are and where people are in all sorts of places. We find you on streaming apps. We find you on all the podcast platforms. You can also find us on social media

at Ben Mulroney Show on Instagram. We're also on YouTube. And it's a growing community on Instagram and YouTube. And we thank you. Someone else who's got quite the presence on Instagram and YouTube is our next guest. Dan Julian, he's a board certified medical aesthetics at Dan Aesthetics Medical Design.

Welcome to the show. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. Yeah. Oh, can you get closer to the mic? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So one of the reasons we want to have you on the show is unless you've been living under a rock and unless you've never, never collide with this type of content online, everybody has seen the pictures of Bradley Cooper.

Bradley Cooper, who's, you know, he's everywhere. He's a good-looking dude, too. And I think he's about 50 and maybe a little older than that. And he got, he got what looks like a facelift. And people are being pretty harsh on what they're seeing. Yeah. And because of that, you know, we want to have a broad kind of conversation going all over the place about what people are doing, who's doing it,

and the state of, you know, how we take care of our faces and how we take care of our bodies in 2025. When you saw the pictures of this guy, and like some of the criticism is, is that he looks like Barry Manilom. He looks like he's wearing prosthetics. He does not look like himself. When you see that, what do you think? That's a great question.

And it's such a telling story for right now because we're such in an era where we want this natural, like, non-detectable medical aesthetics look, right? Like anything that looks slightly off, we're so critical because he still looks like a good-looking dude. However, you can pick out kind of a couple things that are a little off. And the things that keep men looking masculine and, you know, good are just basically a lot of times a little bit of hooding, a little excess hooding in the upper eyelid. And I think that's like the big thing that, unfortunately, that was done with him whenever he did his facelift is they took a little bit too much skin on top of the eye. And it just hollowed them out a little bit. And that is like such a distinguished look for men that you need a little bit of a low brow, you need a little bit of an excess skin there.

And it just kind of sets the tone of making sure that people can't tell what was done. Yeah. Whenever you're doing a facelift, too, a lot of times, like, what you're trying to do, there are different types of facelifts and everyone's going to talk about which one's better, deep plane, or whatever. But the whole idea is to bring your tissues back. Because as we age, like there are three things that usually happen. You get a little descent.

You get your tissues that move forward and then we lose volume. Yeah. So whenever you're doing the facelift, usually what they're going to do is try and bring that back. But it doesn't look like they did much for the midface for him. And it looks like he's very cheeky now. Yeah. And as a result, that's where the Barryman is. is it now how much of it is because i you hear a lot that uh people who get

a lot of work done it takes a while for it to settle or something like that yeah it's about six to nine months usually if you're going to be getting like any type of facel and so if he's in the public eye yeah like it's it's it's a double-edged sword you know he lives yeah he has a lot of success because people pay attention but they're also going to be paying attention to this stuff 100% and it depends on you know how obsessed you are with making sure you control what's being posted in social media, right? Some people are very obsessive and they only allow what's going to be posted while they're healing.

Only the perfect edited stuff like the Jenner, right? She just ended up having a facelift done and everyone's like, oh my God, this is the best facelift ever. And even though it was great work, a lot of people who I know in Beverly Hills, like I see every day. She doesn't look like that. Oh, no, yeah. I saw the picture.

We're talking about Chris Jenner, right? The matriarch of the Kardashian family. Yeah, people posted some before and afters of her and they said, oh, look, it's the best facelift ever. But then somebody posted an unfiltered picture from that same event. And, I mean, it is what it is. It is what it is. And there's nothing wrong with that.

That's good. It's just that I think social media has created such a misconception of what potential reality can be like. And because they hide all the scarring. All of the little mini, many flaws are edited out. So everyone wants this whenever they go for faceless. And realistically, you're probably not going to get that. Yeah. Well, you know, I stopped, I stopped living with social.

is still part of my life, but I changed my relationship with it a while ago. So I only really use it for work and for doom scrolling when I've got nothing to do. Right? If I've got, it's a time to kill, I'll scroll and memes will make me laugh. And that's it. I don't really post my life anymore. And years and years and years ago, I stopped, I stopped coveting what other people had, right? And a lot of people were comparing me to Ryan Sechrest, who, because we started our jobs at about the same time. And, you know, he did what he did. And I did, you know, I'm doing what I do. People were comparing us and it was it was unhelpful to compare working Canada to you know the success that he was having in the United States and by extension I don't compare myself to

anybody anymore and I think that's a good thing. Social media makes it really hard not to covet what we see and and so have you found in your practice that you have like I don't know is there more of an appetite for self-improvement on the outside? 100% yeah I mean this is the age where right now everyone wants to look youthful. Again, even with social media, you have all these young influencers are like 18 to 20 years old, and they have the app that shows them

what they're going to look like when they're 60, and it looks pretty realistic, and they're freaking out. So that's why they put this ridiculous 20-step skincare routine on to potentially hopefully stop a facelift or something like that. But no, everyone wants to either look a little bit better, a little bit more youthful, just a little bit more awake. And I think that's the whole idea.

Like, whenever you're doing this stuff, you shouldn't look to change your face. No. The whole idea is just basically those fine-tuned things, right? I always tell people, listen, if you're going to get anything done, don't try and change your face. Just try and create a little bit more youth, make yourself look a little bit more awake and refreshed.

And the whole idea is if you can do that where you and I can tell there's a difference, but when you walk out here, no one else can tell it, that's perfect. Yeah, that's a sweet spot. It's hard to do. If you're 50, they say if you are going to go down that path, you shouldn't want to look 30. You should look like the best version of a 50-year-old.

Wouldn't that be weird? Wouldn't that be weird if you're like seven years old and they're like, hey, you look 30? That would just be weird. Actually, I was watching an episode, just some random TV show with my daughter who's like 18. And there was this guy, he's like 35 and he's a good-looking guy, but he looked airbrushed. And she's like, ew. Yeah. Right?

So even that, I thought that was really interesting. Even at 35, right, looking too clean for a guy is not. right. Yeah. So you need a little rugged. You need a little masculine. I actually, you know,

I didn't even think of it, but I was mentioning Ryan Seacrest. There's this whole thing going on online, but like what's going on with him? I don't know if you've seen the pictures of him, but he's recently, he looks very gaunt and people are saying, oh, Hollywood got another victim.

And I'm not trying to make light. Yeah. But, but, you know, for us who follow Hollywood, it's got to be even worse being in Hollywood. 100%. Yeah.

And we don't, you don't, the GLP ones right now, so those are like your injections to help with diabetes, but they really help with the Ozzympics, the Manjaro, and that sort of thing. So those things are huge because you don't have to be overweight. A lot

of people microdose on them just to control their appetite. But if you already lean, and then all of a sudden you lean out a little bit more, most of us, when we lose weight quickly, we lose it in our face. Yeah. So, and everyone just criticizes them right away. Even like, remember before Ozempic, you're right?

Imagine if like you lost like 30 pounds and you went to your mom and you haven't seen them for a while. Your parents are going to freak out. You look like you're sick. you need to start eating something. There's a phase where whenever you lose weight, you lose it in your face first. And after that it balances out. We gotta wait for that. Yeah, that's, I mean, when I lose weight, I lose it my face first. Yeah. And they say that with O-Zempic

and those types of things, it doesn't, you lose weight in weird places at weird times. And so there's, like, ozempic face is a thing. It is a thing, but it's also something so new that people don't know enough about. It's all speculative. Yeah. So here's one thing. Like, I've been doing intermittent fasting for like 15 years. It's what keeps me shape. But sometimes I'll do like four day fast or whatever at a time. And the thing is, is whenever you're doing these types of fasts, you lose muscle at the same time.

We were told initially, no, you don't lose any muscle. You just lose fat. And I was like, oh, sweet. And then after that, like you find out, actually, no, you do lose weight. You lose muscle whenever you're fasting that. And that's what's happening with Ozempic or any of those medications. It's like, you are losing muscle as well. So whenever people aren't, they have, hey, by the way, if you're out there, make sure you exercise and do some weights, otherwise you're going to get osteoporosis osteoprita, you know, that stuff too. But that's like this whole new thing that a lot of people aren't aware of.

It's like you don't just lose fat. You're losing muscle. You can gain that back, but it's such a drastic look initially that it's scary for a lot of people. Well, Dan, don't go anywhere. When we come back, I want to hear more about your practice

and about how you're interacting with this sort of new generation of people who are putting their appearance front and center. Like we said, nothing wrong with it. But if you're going to go in... It could go wrong. It can go wrong. I've watched every episode that so botched.

So I know what we're talking But so I want to hear about your clients I want to hear I mean we can keep it general Don't want to hear about their own privacy But I want to hear about trends And and just get to know You know you on the front lines a little better

So don't go anywhere This is the Ben Mulroney show Welcome back to Monjaro Monday on the Ben-Mority show. We are talking plastic surgery. We're talking about aesthetics. We're talking about living in this world in 2025 where it's so easy to turn on your phone

and see an image of somebody and say, I want to look like that. And a lot of people don't necessarily think about the consequences. There's a lot of good reasons to go under the knife or to get an injection. And there are a myriad reasons why you shouldn't. And here to talk about all of that, the good, the bad, and the ugly, oh, that's a perfectly use of that expression, is a Dan Julian board certified medical esthetician from Ottawa.

Dan, how can people find you online? You find me on at Dentesthetics Medical. I have a YouTube channel, Instagram, and TikTok. We do a lot of educational stuff. We also do a lot of fun stuff too. And it's just basically keeping it light, but also making sure people are aware of what's out there and making sure you guys still look natural, okay?

We say no, it's for a reason. Okay, well, let's talk about when you say yes and when you say no. In the world of social media, it's all breaks no gas, right? I have to assume that a lot of people come in and say, I, this is what I look like. Yeah. And I don't want to look anything like I look like right here. And because of self-diagnosis and the ability to go down rabbit holes,

I guarantee you you've got people who come in and tell you exactly what they think they need. Absolutely. They'll show me a picture of someone else's lips. And I'm like, these are not your lips. Yeah. You can't. So the whole idea whenever you're looking at it, by the way, if you're getting into medical aesthetics, you can't change your face with filler or anything like it.

This is non-surgical, right? Yeah. And even with surgical, we just talked about. You don't want to change your face too much because people are going to call you out on and people are not going to be happy with it. You're not going to be happy with it. You want to look like yourself. Yeah.

So whether it's surgical or non-surgical, keep it natural. And the whole idea, let's say even something as basic as lips, because that's like the trend everyone still wants, which is cool. You can't change your lips. Now, what does that mean? That means like I've seen lips that don't look like. I mean, you can change it. You can change them.

You can change them if you want, but you're not going to be happy with them, right? Basically, what you want to do is you want to just restore the volume that was lost. And if you want to crisp up some borders, you can do that. However, if you didn't have a big lip at first and you have a very tiny lip and you want a big lip, right? Yeah, it's hard to do. I mean, you can do it, but it's just going to look terrible. Yeah.

And or it's going to migrate afterwards because that filler doesn't have the space for it, so it's going to be pushed out. And it may even kind of look good now in 2D, which is on social media, right? So everything's 2D. but in real life, everyone sees you from the side and they all know you look jacked up. Yeah, yeah. And it's funny because I have girls come in

and they'll say, oh, I don't like fillet. I don't do any filler. And I'm like, the only thing I can see are your crazy lips. And I'm like, what do you mean by that? And they're like, oh, no, I've only done a little bit of lip filler. I'm like, okay, so now there's like this whole misconception

because for me, whenever I see someone coming in with those lips, I automatically assume they have filler all over the place. And it looks so trashy. And I think that's the thing that people are missing. Okay, but there are people out there. and we see them walk in the streets every day. We see people and we know so clearly that they had something done.

And we also, without being judgmental, but if you're putting yourself out there for people to look at, there's automatically going to be a judgment. That's right. And there have to be people who don't see what we see. They don't see. There's a lot of people who don't see it. Like, is it body dysmorphia?

I don't want to diagnose people. But I got to think, I mean, if you don't see it and you just keep doing these things and you're getting progressively cartoonish in how you look. I've got to think that there's a disconnect between what people see of themselves and what... People definitely get used to seeing what they see in the mirror eventually and they convince themselves that this is like a normal thing.

So imagine seeing yourself at first, plus you're getting a new treatment. There's inflammation involved and the provider's like, oh, by the way, it's just inflammation, even though they may have done way too much. And then, you know, a week goes by, two weeks goes by, and the provider's like, oh, no, give it another two, four weeks. And I'll say another two to four weeks go by, they're like, oh, maybe this looks starting to look okay. And then all of a sudden, you just convince yourself that this looks normal.

Yeah. So how do you walk someone off the ledge? If somebody enthusiastically comes in and gives you their lay of the land, and they say, these are all the things I want done. How do you, you know, walk them back to a place of sanity of saying, okay, if you want to do some work, here is the stuff that I think would work for you. I mean, right off the bat before I see anyone, I have to do like their past medical history. If there's like, you know, OCD, obsessive-compulsive disorder, general anxiety disorder or body, like body dysmorphia, then those are things I take in consideration.

And everyone has to be approached a little differently. Yeah. But you have to have a real conversation with these people. And most of my treatment is usually the consult initially. Like if they have an hour appointment, I guarantee 45 minutes of that first visit is going to be a consult. So I just basically, they understand where I'm at. I'm understanding where they're at. And I have to be gentle with that because a lot of times people come in and the first thing,

I see these lips and I'm like, we've got to dissolve this. How can I do that? So I'll say, maybe something that you like about your face. Yeah. And then I'm hoping they're going to say something. They're like, oh, I love my lips. I'm like, oh, damn. I go.

Okay. So, and I tell them, like, listen, this is what I see. I think your lips are slightly overdone because I could tell right away they're done and that's the whole idea. Yeah. Do you see that? Do you see it from the side? And I'll go into this conversation.

A lot of times these girls are going to say, I know exactly what you're saying and I don't care. I'm like, really? Yeah. And like, yeah, because it looks good on social media. Oh, my God. It's the 2D thing. So this is like the influencer world, right?

So for them, and it's so funny because a lot of these girls will come in and they really only care about what they look like on social media because 98% of the life is them being on social media. And they actually don't really know how to relate to the general public. After when you talk to these people, they're so awkward. And I think it's because they know that there's not relatable. Okay, well, I'm glad that you mentioned women, but we talked about Bradley Cooper off the top of our conversation.

So what's your world like in terms of male clients today? I have to assume the number of men coming in has gone up. 100%. It's going up every year. And what are the reasons that they're coming in? Men are still, for the most part, there's two different types of men, right? You have men who have sex with men, and then you have your straight men or the blokes or whatever you want, and those are two different categories.

Because men who are straight men typically want to look a little rugged, little masculine, they just want to look refreshed. they don't want that airbrush look there's nothing wrong with it but typically they don't want that now men of sex with men typically are okay with the airbrush look and that's because it actually makes them

look a little bit more feminine and they're okay with that so that's what you have to understand it's like first of all do you want to look masculine or do you want to look feminine because it's okay for you to look one or the other but you have to understand that before going into doing treatment

so if you're looking at the masculine side most of the time they don't want to change their face however if you're really fit and you have got like gaunt look right So that means, like, usually you lose a lot of weight in the midface. Your tissues have moved down. You're looking a lot older, but your body looks jacked. You know, they just want to restore that a little bit.

And that's our job is just to restore a little bit of volume. Maybe soften a little bit of wrinkles, but keep some wrinkles at the same time. And making sure that when they smile, you still smile with your eyes, right? You all look weird like you. And yeah, you don't want to look like a curtain being pulled back. Yeah. So that's a fine balance. But these are all things that you have to talk about in the consult.

then you have to be able to objectively tell them, like, we can do this, but we can't do that. Yeah. And sometimes they will want everything, right? They want this frozen look, but they also want to look natural. I'm like, well, what are you talking about here? Pick your poison. Exactly.

So we only have a couple of minutes left, and I'd love to talk about, what are some new advances that people are coming in for? Like I said, you've got knowledgeable people coming in because they're doing all their research online. What are people asking for today that wasn't even on the horizon a few years ago. Man, everyone is, is, that what's crazy about medical aesthetics is that it's the only field of medicine where you kind of can get away with experimental things. Like if I was in cardiology or anything else, everything had to have been like systematic or be meta-analysis,

the top of the top, study forever, and then we're going to go ahead and try it on someone. Now it's like, hey, by the way, we've got this like fish sperm. You want me inject that in your face? It's like, sure. So people are like literally trying everything. So, you know, that's exosomes. is one. You've got polynuclutize. That's the salmon DNA stuff, which is literally fish sperm fragments. And the whole idea is to basically wake up fibroblasts, which are what these are the cells responsible for making the building blocks of keeping your skin firm, which is elastin and collagen and hyluronic acid. So if you're, you're injecting these into the tissues, it's supposed to wake them up and eventually it's supposed to kind of rejuvenate them and you're

supposed to look better. So these are, these are the things. That's the theory behind it. That's the theory behind it. Has it been confirmed and in, well, that's the thing, So now you have, let's say, let's look at polynuclidize, which I just talked about. It's the whole waking up the cells. Even in that, right? In Europe, they've been doing it for a while. And they've, my colleagues who have been doing it for a while, they all tell me, like, listen, there's injectable form and then there's microneed form, which is like the very less. Yeah, that's almost nothing.

That's the, that's what the vampire. Yeah, vampire facial. Vampire facial, yeah. Like, micromania is whenever you just, like, bore, like, aerate your face. And after that, you put a serum in there to help it out. And that's whenever you can place that polynuclideide serum on there. But you can do the injections. The injection stuff is actually where you're going to get the most bang for your buck.

But even in there, there are three different tiers. They're super high, medium and low. You've got to do the super high stuff in order to get anything out of it. And anything else, I don't even know if it's really doing much. And that's what people don't realize is a lot of the people that they are striving to look like online are willing to spend whatever it takes. And they have unlimited bank rolls to get it done. Dan Julian, I wish we could talk for the entire.

hour, but our time is up. I want to thank you so much for joining us. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much. Dan Julian of Dan Aesthetics Medical Design. Thank you so much. All right, don't go anywhere. More to come on the Ben Mulroney Show. Welcome back to the Ben Mulerunee Show. Thank you so much for joining us. And I just got back from a tremendous trip. Somebody who is still on a trip is a great friend of the show, a great man for great insights. sites on a number of issues is Tony Chapman, host of the award-winning podcast, Chatter

That Matters, as well as a founding partner of Chatter AI, and he joins us all the way from Costa Rica. Welcome, my friend. It's a pleasure to be with you. What's the weather like down there? It's 27 degrees and sunny. Yeah, I like to say that when the weather starts turning like it does right now in Canada, that's when I start questioning some life choices. Yeah, it's, it's, I'm just reading my family back what they're dealing with all over Ontario. right now. So I'm lying low. I'm keeping low. Hey, I wanted to start this out with a commercial that a lot of us saw on social media for a Canadian fast food restaurant called Schwarma Royale. And are we going to play any of that? Yeah, let's play a little bit of this commercial.

And we'll talk about it on the back end. Whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? You're slapping the customer? He asked me if Shoma was Israeli. All right, for those listening, yes, it's a, it's a, someone at Schwarma Royale slapping a customer in the face. And when his boss comes up and asks him, why are you slapping the customer? He says, well, he asked me if Schwarma was Israeli. And then he gets pushed aside so that the boss can start slapping the client. And that's, I mean, do that about anybody.

else. Do that about any other group. And it's not acceptable, but for some reason, it's acceptable to do that. What are your thoughts about this type of commercial, my friend? Well, first of all, you'd never go after anybody's cultural identity because you're just going to get massive blowback. But are you going to get blowback today? Oh, you're right. I mean, we've seen to have a luster sense of civility. so we, you know, people get away with a lot. But if you're a marketer, you need to have some level of integrity. You need to, humor is wonderful, but just try to take advantage of TikTok and the stupid cat videos

and then try to, you know, take advantage of a medium that really has no sense of boundaries or filters. I just think it's a tasteless ad. And I think the blowback they got was well deserved. And hopefully the person that put it on either learned their lesson or is working on polishing their resume. Yeah, like, you know, I was talking about it with, with Mike, my intrepid producer earlier today. And when I saw this, it reminded me of an ad about five, maybe, maybe actually more than five years ago from one of those big fast fashion companies like Zara or H&M.

And it was an ad of little children wearing shirts that had different animal names on them. And the ad that made it around the world and got a lot of blowback was of a black. black child wearing a shirt that said monkey. And look, I call my kids monkey all the time. I'm sure there's some black parents that call their kids monkey. But an ad like that is 100% inappropriate. And the way we framed it on the other show that I was working on is that's what happens when you don't have a single white, you don't have a single black person vetting this sort

of thing from the moment somebody comes up with the idea all the way through the photo shoot and all the way through selling the ads. All it would have taken is one person. And they didn't have that. And I likened that. So that's the parallel. But the parallel ends there because I truly believe that in the case of the monkey ad, it was done unintentionally. Like nobody was trying to offend.

This I feel is different. This I feel is deliberately provocative. This is trying to, like, they know they're dehumanizing Jews and they don't care. Yeah. I mean, this is the situation we have in this society we live in that we live in that we've, We've lost respect for each other. We feel it's okay to bully. I mean, we have a president calling a reporter of Piggy.

Yeah. And it just keeps getting this line of who we are as human beings. The fact that we're all one human race disappears and all of a sudden, the Jewish people become an easy target. And it's disrespectful. And honestly, the best thing anybody can do with this is just boycott it to saying, I don't want to give money to an organization that feels that this is a, This is, you know, this is advertising that works.

I don't care how many people talk about it or share it. It's wrong. Yeah. All right. Well, let's move on to the Canadian Marketing Awards. The best of the best campaign. What are these bipartisan wings? Because I've never heard of it, but now I kind of want to try them.

Yeah, it's so fun because pizza, pizza and Zulu, both great Canadian companies, have always used humor to their advantage. And obviously, when the debate was going on in the states between the Republicans and the Democrats and how ugly and heated it was, they launched this limited edition, bipartisan wings. And really, it was drumsticks and the wings,

which every wing is, but just the fact that they positioned it this way, put it in a special box, created some kind of political fodder around it. It became a massive bestseller. Everybody wanted to try it. What you were trying is the same wings they sold yesterday.

Oh, yeah. It was almost like when they did diamond shreddies. You remember that? Yeah, diamond shreddies, which is a square. Yeah. I turned it on the corner. and it's just a little creative book

that makes people smile. Yeah, what about the Twix? Are you a left Twix or a right Twix person? Yeah. They did that. It was a war between two brothers and they created this whole backstory for Twix and one guy took his left Twix

to one side of the river and the other made the right twix. And it's the same Twix, but I love those ideas and absolutely sometimes. And you know it. By the way, are you a Flats guy or a drumstick guy? Oh, I'm definitely.

a drumstick guy. You're really, I find, I'm a flat. I mean, I listen, I love them all, but I love a flat. I love the drumstick. I love biting in with the sauce and, and it's, you know, this again, attention is the oxygen of marketing. More than ever, we're starving for attention. Most of the consumers that used to consume content are now creating their own content. Yeah. So when you have something like this, which is just a great insight, a little twist, it's part of the cultural zeitist, and you come out with it, to me, that's brilliant marketing. It doesn't take millions of dollars. What it just takes is a client that has a lot of courage and an agency has a lot of creativity and you go out with it. Next thing you know,

you've won Best to Show, which is I've won Best to Show a couple of times. There's not a better feeling than front of all your peers walking away with the Grand Slam. What'd you win Best and Show for? I wanted for Hallmark the Millennium, which was a chance that you could send a letter to yourself 10 years in the future. We won it for Bridezilla, which is a wig out where bride was cut off her hair just before her wedding. We spent $3,000 on it. Oprah talked about it.

Jay Leno talked about it. All over the world, they brought up this video. Was it real or fake? And it was a $3,000 video. So there's times when you just hit it. And I tell you something, that's what marketing, that's what you live for. It's like a hit record. You live for that hit campaign.

Hey, let's talk about Michael's. I'm not a Michael's guy, but it's like a craft. store, but there are people out there for whom they are very passionate. They can't live their lives without Michaels. And the story is they haven't officially removed price tags from all the items, but there's widespread reports from employees and from customers that seasonal items are arriving without pre-printed prices. And it's leading customers to speculate that dynamic pricing is the way of the future, and that future is now. Yeah, it's dynamic pricing is the way the future period.

I mean, we saw it with the airlines. You know, the longer you wait to book your ticket, the more you pay, you go on. If you actually go on to an airline site and put something on hold,

you go back, the price has gone up. But it should be the opposite. It should be the opposite. Absolutely. I mean, exactly. It should be,

it should absolutely be the opposite. The longer you wait, it's like, it's like tickets to a Broadway show. If the show's already started, you can get tickets for next to nothing at the beginning of the show because they watch you in those seats.

Absolutely. It's perishable inventory. And so dynamic, now with digital and algorithms, we're going to see more and more. If my inventory is selling well, let's raise the price. Oh, it's raining. Let's raise the price of umbrellas. Oh, it's a beautiful day outside. Let's make sure we've got it. And literally, the algorithms are now reading the weather for the day in that location, that store, and they will dynamically change the pricing accordingly. And that's just the, that's the future we're dealing with. Applying demand. Yeah. Rule number one of trying to build an ethical marketplace is don't take your cues on pricing from Uber. Oh, that's question. No question. Okay, we got to leave it there, my friend. Enjoy the weather.

When are you back? I'm back in a couple of weeks. Okay, well, enjoy. I'll see you in studio towards the end of the month. Yeah, and I'm just going to look at you with that tan. I'm just going to be seething. And I might be smiling in your face, but behind my eyes, these blue eyes are going to sparkle.

Behind my eyes, I'm hating you. Absolutely. Enjoy, my friend. Really well-deserved break. All right. Okay. Ciao. There are streaming services, and then there's Stack TV.

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