5 Live Boxing with Steve Bunce - Punch Perfect: 5. Would Ali Survive in Today's Era & The Iron Chins

Episode Date: August 19, 2026

Ade Oladipo, Emily Eubank, and Liam Gough are back with another hard-hitting, no-holds-barred episode of The Punch Perfect Podcast on BBC Sounds! After a quick heads-up to mind young ears for a few explicit slips, the crew jumps headfirst into 'The Clinch' to take on a legendary mythical matchup debate. Producer Jay delivers the envelope, setting off the three-minute timer as the hosts dissect a massive claim: "Muhammad Ali wouldn't be champion in the current heavyweight scene." How would 'The Greatest' fare against modern heavyweight giants, or is classic speed and ring IQ enough to rule any era? The team has just one round to trade arguments and deliver a final verdict. Then, it's time to head back to 'The Blueprint' to build out the next critical layer of their Frankenstein GOAT. With George Foreman lock-in for power, Chris Eubank Senior for heart and resilience, Muhammad Ali taking marketability, and Oleksandr Usyk locked in for technical skill, the hosts turn their attention to physical durability: THE CHIN. This segment is all about iron jaws, standing up to ultimate punishment, and refusal to hit the canvas. Ade, Emily, and Liam pitch three elite durable fighters each, battling through tense elimination rounds to agree on the single ultimate chin to add to their growing creation. Finally, the bell rings for 'The Final Round' as Ade steps up to fire off hot takes on the sport's structural flaws. The panel goes back and forth on whether boxing desperately needs a single governing body, if the Olympic style misleads pro prospects, and if inconsistent ring sizes amount to implicit cheating. Unfiltered, expert, and packed with fiery debate—this is essential listening for fight fans.

Welcome back to the Punch Perfect podcast. We are putting together our Frankenstein go-of-boxing, attribute by attribute. I'm Liam Gough. I'm Emily Eivank. And I'm Adi O'Dipo, and here's what we've got coming up for you on this episode. Bye, bye, bye, bye. Would Ali be a morning? That's a good question.

What are you talking about? That's a good question. I don't know. I think the sheer size of him and his chin. Yeah. Like that elongated. Yeah. You know, it's got a cushion almost.

There's a bit of cushion to. They're clipping him, but they're obviously clipping the wrong part. So it's like it goes, but it doesn't affect it. If you're a WBO Intercontinental title, oh come here, you can put that on your headstone. I was WBO Intercontinental champion. Brilliant. Okay, guys, ultimately, there's going to be some swearing in this episode, so let's get into it. All right, if you're new to the pod, welcome, where have you been? It's the best pod inboxing.

We start every episode with the clinch, which is no frills, no whole bars look at the sport. The good, the bad, the ugly, everything is on the table. We're going to be given an envelope by producer Jay. Here we go. And I think Liam, it's your turn this week. It's my turn this week. So thank you, producer Jay. The hardest part is actually getting the envelope opened.

There we go. Okay. So, Muhammad Ali wouldn't have been a champion in the current heavyweight error. We have three minutes to debate this. Producer Jay, can you start the clock? So Muhammad Ali wouldn't have been a heavyweight champion in this current era of heavyweight. heavy weights. Obviously, that's nonsense. He wouldn't be a champion. Of course he would be a champion. Have you seen this error of heavy weights? Yeah, I've seen them. I see them up close every

time. It's not great compared to what it used to be. And Muhammad Ali at six foot three and barely 220 pounds. That's interesting because the best heavyweight in the world is six foot three and 220 pounds. Yeah, way more skilled than Muhammad Ali ever was. Pardon me? Way more skilled than Muhammad Ali ever was. Against the likes of Tyson Fury, against the likes of AJ, Dubois. Of course. Yeah. Who's Muhammad Ali thought that outweighed him by 50 pounds and was what, six inches taller? Yeah. I'm, Sorry, who'd have a matter of size. This is a matter of skill.

And Muhammad Ali is clearly, clearly would have been a heavyweight champion. So one second, one second. Fabio Wardley is a heavyweight champion in this era. So Mike wouldn't have done anything more. Daniel de Waugh of this era. Andy Ruiz Jr. of this era. Charles Martin of this era. And you're telling me, Muhammad Ali would not have won a world champion.

And those that I've just mentioned have. Yeah. You crazy. 15 rounds Yeah And as I mentioned skills Right So if you took a kid to the gym

You would show him Look what Alexander Usik is doing You wouldn't be saying look what Muhammad Ali did Yeah you would Pull him back and hands down You wouldn't be doing that Okay fundamentally You've got to get to a better place

To start showboating No No it's just not admitting it But yes No no no Same as a valid point In amongst your nonsense Nonsense

Nonsense The only nonsense Is that thinking Muhammad Ali would be champion You know I've noticed the only thing that you've done for some reason is compare Ali to Usik. So if your argument and this would be a valid one is

who was the better of Ali and Usik, then yeah, we could have that conversation. But you're not comparing Ali for some reason to Daniel Du Bois. As it was heavyweight champ. You're not comparing him to Asia. I've noticed you've only done Ali Usik. All right. There were other heavyweight champions of this era. Compare him to, compare him to Wardley. Would Ali have beaten Wardley? That's a good question. What are you talking about? That's a good question. I don't know.

You don't stop it. The envelope says, Would he be a world champion in this era? Okay, so if he'd have fought Fabio Wardley, right, who has it, Mohammed Ali ever thought that was like Fabio Wardley? What, I could punch George Foreman? No. That could punch George Foreman.

Yeah, but George Foreman swang like he was trying to quick a pop. And what did it? That had a jab? What are we doing? And Fabio Wardley is... Ken Norton, same height and same size as Fabio Wardley. What are we doing right now? No, Fabio Wardley is...

Menacing, sunny listing. Come on. Come on something out the bag here. No, well, okay, Fabio Wardley can punch like no one Ali fought. Because they all wore six down drugs. I just said George Foreman. Yeah, but he actually had technique or like George Foreman.

George Foreman, would talk Fabio can hit harder than George. Is that what we're saying here? No better technique, certainly. Yeah. Fabio had better technique than George Foreman? Have you ever seen George Farmer Trowman? Yeah, many. I've seen him hit people.

He'd be a great bowler and cricket, wouldn't he? Are you, are you being serious right now? I'm being dead. Last five. No, you're not. No, you're not. No, you're not. Muhammad Ali wouldn't be Andrew Weiss?

He would not be. He would not be. He would not be Andrew Ruiz. I don't know. I mean, Muhammad Ali wouldn't beat Anthony Joshua? Anthony Joshua, 6 foot 6.

Mohammed Ali, one second. Long reach. This is going to go out. This is going to go out on the BBC. Muhammad Ali wouldn't have beat Anthony Joshua. I'm going to stick my neck out and say AJ wins that fight. AJ beats Muhammad Ali.

He actually stops Muhammad Ali. You lost it. You lost all credibility. You lost everything. That's it. That's it. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to remove your boxes back.

Oh, geez. They've thrown you under the box. to them. And yet, and yet there's going to be no shortage of people who comment on this and say, Liam's right. No, they weren't. Yes, they were. You know, there's one heavyweight.

Even if they do believe you, I think Muhammad Ali is loved universally so much that even if they think they might be right, they'll wake up, slap themselves and say they're wrong. No, they won't. They are going to agree with me wholeheartedly. And I'm going to be proven right by the comment section of this podcast. You know, Muhammad Ali is considered the greatest heavyweight of all time, right? He's considered that. You've just named people that you think could beat him that won't even be in the

that conversation. Haven't Ily lost to Leon Spinks, mate? Yeah, Anthony and Joshua lost Andrew Ruiz, mate. Well, Andy Ruiz is certainly a lot better than Leon Spinks. Just. A lot better. Yeah. No, a lot better.

A lot better because Andrew Weez has done what in these career? Well, look at Leon Spinks whenever he stepped up after that one win. And he got like three round demolition job by Larry Holmes. You said on one of these pods that AJ is going to be known for going six round with Jake Paul. Yeah, he will be. Yeah. And he'd be also known for beating, or for beating Mohammed Ali. he's also going to be known for that

if they defa. That's what he'd be known for his wife. So would Muhammad Ali be in Charles Martin, a champion in this era? Would he be in Bermainstervant? A champion in this era? Maybe, yeah. You're just, you're taking the .

Yeah, he's doubling down. I thought he's decided to start taking the borgia. Because I know deep down inside you, you're going to probably go outside, have a coffee, have a deep breath. What have I done? What have I done? What am I saying?

Yeah, this is going out of the BBC. It's okay to admit the few. This is the hill where I'm laying my flag down on. He would not be a champion in this era. It's not a good hill to die on. What would you say was the greatest era of heavyweight boxing out of interest? 90s. Better than the 70s?

90s, yeah. So better than George Foreman, Joe Fraser, Ken Northland. George Farmer was part of the 90s era. It was, but that era, do you think the 90s of Holyfield, Tyson? Holyfield, Tyson, Bow, Lewis. Oh, man. And yes, he was more exciting. It was more excited.

And they were more characters as well. Yeah. More juice, babe. Why don't we work through errors then, right? Does Muhammad Ali, I don't think, is a world champion in this era, right? Let's talk about the 90s. Best era I think.

Made, Holyfield, Lewis, Bo? He ain't beating those guys. No way. So who was the greatest heavyweight then for you? The greatest heavyweight. Yeah. I'm going to go and say Lennox Lewis. Okay.

Because he could do it all. So where would Ali sit in your greatest heavyweight debate then? I mean, he'd be in the top five, but then again, Alexander Ousek, his career is still going. He can easily knock him out of the world. the top five. I think we need to bring in the fact that back in the day, they're going 15 rounds, eight ounce gloves, of course, here. So put them in this era where they're... Hence the reason why so many of them were done by 30.

Yeah, but irrelevant to what we're trying to establish here, which is that he wouldn't have been a world champion. Yes, he wouldn't have been. And he wouldn't. So he could do what he did for 15 rounds, eight ounce gloves, but he couldn't do it over 12 and whatever they use now. With someone like Lennox Lewis jabbing his head off, with someone like Alexander Ousek moving around him with his technique. Hell no. So one second, can you say technique that Ali couldn't move? You say technique that Ali couldn't move with the jab.

Olympic gold medal back then. They didn't give him out for free. Yeah, they didn't give him out for free. At light heavyweight. Sorry, one second. Where did your boy just come from? Middleweight. When he was a teenager.

Middleweight. When he was a teenager. Lemix came up from middleweight. No, Alexander Usick. Alexander Usick was fighting Walter Witt. It would have been a hell of a middleweight, wouldn't he? It's fighting Walter weights, Alexander Usick. It was a small boy himself.

And as you get, again, again, you bring Alexander Usick in, you talk about size. The best don't need to be sized like that. The best weren't that big. I'm standing by it. Even in the 90s, wouldn't have been a champion. Would not have been. Muhammad Ali was in the right time, right place.

Right time, the toughest time. As Emily said, the toughest time. When you're fighting 15 rounds of 8 ounce gloves, the toughest time. And you're fighting six times a year, the toughest times. Unlike your guys that are doing two free fights a year and only going 12 rounds. My guy was doing it.

time and time again against the best back to back to back. Apart from Vladimir Klitschko broke his record, the longest reigning heavyweight champion. The longest raining. You mean Joe Lewis? No, no. Mahamadali broke his record. No, he did break his record.

19... No, 19... No, 19... No, defence is. No, yeah, defences. Fact Jack. Yeah, not rain, yeah, defences. Mahamaddy broke the record.

And that was only broken up until Vladimir Klitsko. And he's running through killers. And there you go. Vladimir Klitsko broke a record. There's another one. Gone. They're breaking records today. No one's breaking records today.

No, no one's breaking records. Today, no one's breaking records. No, Mohammed Ali did not break Joe Lewis's heavyweight title defence record. Sorry, what, Muhammad Ali's title defence record? Muhammad Ali did not break Joe Lewis's heavyweight title defence record. Joe successfully defended the championship a record 25 consecutive times. Okay, but he still would be a world champion in this era. It's just nonsense to say he wouldn't.

Well, I don't think he would. And I think that I have come out of. this debate because Aday has to make up stats that Muhammad Ali was the most title defences, which we've now proven was not the case. So I think I've got the moral high ground in this debate. Do you really think you've won that? Do you really generally believe that you, that Muhammad Ali wouldn't have been a champion in this era? I don't know if you believe that, Jim. I don't know if you're playing this role, which is a good role to play. It's a role with no longevity, but it's a good role to play that he would have been that guy. I've got more longevity than

the fires in the 70s did. What? Emily was saying. One second. What? I think if we give him any scenario right now, Ali versus anyone, you're going to say they we in.

I don't understand what you even meant by that. What do you mean? These fighters have more fights than AJ. What do you mean because of age or fights? Right, everything. So one second, they had way more fights than the fighters now of today. Yeah.

And hence the reason they were done. On Osama, still in these 20 fights. Like, Al-Zon Hussein is 24 fights. Fight, fight. Fight. Fight.

What? The 70's done that. The 70s has done that in like three years. Yeah. Mike Tyson did it in two years. Hence the reason they were all done by the time they were 30. Alexander Rusek is nearly 40. He could still go on from the three years.

Because he started pro in his late 20s. This is the difference. The guy started pro back then in their teens. And he had 300 amateur rights. I think there's probably an argument we had as well about how the belts were split up then. So being a world champion now, a lot of them are vacant and you fight a nobody and you get one here. Fantastic point. You know, back in the day, I don't think that's how it was working.

Yeah. Muhammad Ali didn't have the WBO belt to fight for like these fighters now didn't exist. No one cared about it. It was almost like the IBO trinket. Nowadays you fight for vacant belts. Back then you had to fight the man. So you were fighting killer after killer to get that fight.

Nowadays, you're fighting nobody. You could literally fight as Emily said for a vacant title. Yeah. Oh, you're telling. We are filming this on the eve of Rico Verhoeven fighting for a world title. Yeah, well, you know, that's a good point. But still, I think I'm going to roll this one. Great point, Emily.

I think. Putting out of the bag. We won again. You mean you won again? After that one, should move on to the blueprint, boys? Let's. Okay, boys, let's continue building the Frankenstein go-of-boxing. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

So far, for power, we've had George Foreman. Yeah. For Hart, Chris Eubank. You say that somehow upset. You kind of, your eyes are kind of, well, by default. Just because I've whooped his ass in these debates week in, week. out and he's sick of it. No comment.

Marketability, Muhammad Ali, who we don't think would be a world champion in this era. No, you don't think would be a world champion in this era. And for skill set, Alexander Usak.

Are we, we happy with that? Any changes? I remember last time it was close, wasn't it, Usset Crawford? Yeah. Yeah.

Last time it was really close. Hart, we still happy with Chris Eubank, yeah? I mean, you tell me. You voted from him. Are you not happy? Have you changed your mind? No.

More importantly, though, you guys at home, listeners, viewers, are you happy with what we've done so far. If you're not and you're watching this on YouTube, dive into the comment section and let us know who you want us to change, you want us to add, and we're happily have a debate about it.

Yeah, we might have a... But so far, so good. In this episode, the attribute to discuss. Chin. The chin. That's the fine first, like, but a chin, like, in what sense? It's a good point. Someone that can take a crack. Is that it? Is that it? Is that it? Is that it? I think chin

is about, even if you get knocked down, how quick do you recover? How quickly your sense is back? So, see, that change. It changes the whole thing, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because there are people that have never been knocked down,

but there are people that have been knocked down, but get back up. Straight away. And that, that's credit to their chin. Yeah. Yeah, that in itself, I think is a massive attribute. Okay. Well, then we have tree fires,

and I guarantee we are not all going to have the same. But I will take the lead with this. You take the lead every week. I know. I know. Every week. Because my picks are the best, even though you've lost every week.

Well, you've lost all the wicks. Maybe try it, someone else go and then you might win this week. Okay, then. All right. Actually, that's a good. So why don't you lead? All right. Ladies first.

Okay. So Chin, as I said, I don't think it's about just not getting knocked down. I think if you get knocked down and you get back up. And your ass get back up. Yeah, but I don't think that's about heart. It's about your brain actually, are you back in the room? Are you on your feet? Are you out in your ass?

We got to account it for all those things. So my first pick is Ali. And I know we've just gone on the back of this Is he could he come to be? And he's already on the Frankenstein? He is already on the Frankenstein. But I think if we're saying he's the greatest fighter of all time, he's got to be in a few more than just marketability.

I wouldn't associate Ali with having a weak chin, but I wouldn't associate him with being, you know, a goat of having one of the best chins and the back in the game. But he's only been knocked down once. Once, yeah. Yeah. It was a body shot, wasn't it? Choke Webner.

No. No. Joe Fraser knocked him down. Oh, just Joe Fraser, of course. Joe Fraser, left him down. Fight the century. Okay. So not a bad one to get put down on and lose.

Okay. Against so and so. But other than that, you can't. Yeah. Everyone, no one talks about his chin. No one talks about his resilience. It's almost with Ali. It's almost like the ability to talk, sell fights and his ability to avoid punches and land them.

He's been in with some people that can crack. Like some real heavy hitters and he's been able to take their cracks. George Frumman in the 60s was frightening. Everyone was scared of George. And for what he did against George and rumbling in the jungle in the 70s, where Muhammad Ali was going there to get executed, basically, it was going to lose. And for him to stay on the ropes and take those shots

and then come back with his own, Muhammad Ali's chin needs to be in the discussion. Sonny Liston, Ernie Shavers, Ron Lyle, Joe Frazier, George Foreman. All. All of them. And they all of them. All of them.

All of them. One second. One second. One second. Did you just list six or seven of the top 25 fighters ever that Muhammad Ali fought and beat, yet Muhammad Ali wouldn't have been a world champion in this era. So he got hit by all of those big guys.

Yes, he did. Big dudes. Okay. Big dudes. It's a fair show. Again, 15 rounds, 8 ounce gloves. You look at all, don't you? Yeah, because it makes a difference.

The fighters now couldn't do that. 100%. A.J.'s chin cannot do that. Look, he just gave you for saying that. Yeah, he's thinking it. It's fine. It's not just AJ. The Nigerian flag behind me stops me from responding.

There's very few fighters now that that could do that. 100%. Imagine round 14, 15 taking those shots and not going down. The exhaustion, but you're still able to withstand punishment. I think most fighters from that era kind of have to be in this discussion. That is a great show. I will give you that. But a fighter who I think...

So hold on. No one had him? No, I'm not going to have to do it again. A fighter who I think could take that sort of punishment, Gennady, Triple G. Gullivkin. Yeah. Never down.

Yeah. Iron jaw. Yep. Shots from Canello, shots from everyone. Yeah, he's on my list. There you go. You see, we do finally agree on something.

We've got it. This is a bit cheeky. This is a bit cheeky. What camera? My camera. Me and Gimann, man, went out there the other day. I said Gennardi Golochkin. All of a sudden.

He said Gennardi Golochkin. I said Garnardi Gullofkin. I said Garnardi Gullofkin. On a little discussion, none on a sudden, first pick. That's why I wanted to go first. Yeah, yeah. To get it out.

Make myself look like I know what I'm talking about. That is very very. I'm not to disagree with you. So I'll let you reel off your reasons. As I said, I mean, man has made a steal. He is someone who I think if you put him back in the 70s, eight ounce gloves, horsehair 15 rounds, no problem. No problem.

Never down. Mad's made a steel. Best chin. One of the best things I've ever seen. One of the best ones. Yeah. Never down. Never down as a pro.

I mean, he's been in there with punchers and to the point where when he doesn't respect the power, sometimes he'd just be like, okay, just hit me, see what you can do. And it's like, that's all you got. And they said, all right, we're going to points. Yeah. You got to win by points because he's not moving. No, he ain't moving. So, Triple G, he's got to be on the list.

Yeah, I had him in mine as well. Oh, God. That's the first time we've all three of us have had the same person in any of these attributes. It's just granite. Yeah, granite. He is made of granite. Granite. And the definition of don't judge a book by its character, you see Triple G when he's just in his casual, like, shirt and tie.

And he literally looks like, you know, oh, that's like, it's like, A little marshmallow, a little teddy bear. And then you see him in the ring and you're like, uh-oh. It's frightening. Frightening. So, yeah. Is there an argument, though, to say, like, he was rarely in, it's not his fault, but it was rarely in against the best.

So you see when you just reeled off Muhammad Ali's, who was in the ring with, you couldn't really do that with Triple G. So you'd say, Canello, Danny Jacobs, and then you start going, do you know what I mean? He wasn't really in there with guys that were wanting to crack his chin. No. And I don't even think Canelo's considered a big puncher like that. Oh, he is.

One punch knockout, unless he's fighting Amy a con. No. Canello stops people. Canello stuff's like heavy. He's Kovaleff? Yeah. I think that's like that. I think, although you're right in what you're saying, I think if you put him in with those big punches, he would have taken him.

He would have been exactly the same. Yeah. Yeah, I think he's a monster. Yeah. And like that, he's fighting Canello at 40. Yeah. And you're still not stopping him. You're still not affecting him.

And they're hitting him and it's literally bouncing off the chin. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you've never been down in 400 whatever fights it is pro and am, then yeah, you have to be on there. You have to be on there. All right, who's next? Is it a formality now at this stage you we're picking? We could argue it out. Some of us might have someone we've not thought about, just like Crawford last week.

Okay. So I'm assuming Triple G is your next pick. Yeah, so we won't go over that. So I've got triple G, Ali. You've got RLE, no, you've got Triple G. And then I have another middleweight. Gerald McClellan, the G-Man, Julian Jackson. Almost just by default, because the same name is you?

No, because he had one of the greatest chins you'll ever see. Thomas Hurons, when Gerald Maclellan was 17 years old, Mani Stewart told his story. They had a spar. Thomas Hurons got the better of it. McClellan actually charged for him after the spar. And Mani Stewart said Hurons hit him with one of the best right hands, no glove,

you'll ever see. And McClellan didn't even flinch. Man had an iron jaw. So did you say hit him with a hand, no glove? Yeah, literally he took the glove off and he, because he obviously saw Jeremy Cleland going towards him, like not in a nice way and just went bang, hit him on the chin, didn't even flinch. No, obviously, you know, Thomas Hurons right hand. Okay, okay, bang. Thomas Herne's right hand, you know, you can imagine.

And he didn't flinch. Julian Jackson, one of the best punches of all time, took his shots like they were nothing. He only was stopped once obviously in the Nigel Ben fight and he didn't touch down. He took a knee in that fight. He voluntarily sat the count. So one second. So it didn't touch down but took a knee. That's touching down. Yeah, but not being dropped. I mean, Nigel Ben hit him with everything. So you stopped and went down? Hold on.

You do realise what was going on in his head. 100%, but you can't say he didn't touch down when he did touch down. His knee touched the canvas. It was a tactical break. Like, the man literally was on the verge of, you know, going into a coma. Yeah. So you can kind of give him, you can kind of give him that one. Maybe an honorable mention.

I'm not sure he makes the top three. Wow. I didn't think of him. I don't know why. I almost thought of him for being one of the hardest punches as opposed to the person. on the receiving end of punches. But I mean, if you are right in your stats, and I'm sure you have,

because you've Googled it about him not going down, then yeah, I guess he deserves a mention. Okay. He deserves a mention. My second one was, again, I feel like we're sticking in the middleweights. Marvin Hagler. Marvelous, Marvin Hagler.

Marvelous, Marvin. Who only went down once in East Korea. And that was when someone kind of pushed him down. I don't know why I did that, but you know what I'm trying to show you what happened, kind of pushed him down. Arguably on the greatest midways, who has been,

him with punches. You can't ever forget, I mean, Hagler Hearns. Hagler tried to, I mean, Hearns tried to kill him in the ring in those first couple of rounds. And that was a Hearns that was knocking everyone out. I mean, like just icing people.

And he was able to take those shots and come through him. I think, obviously, look, if you've not been down in, what did he have, 68, 69 fights as a pro? Yeah, he had a lot. Do you know what I mean, dude? He did have a lot. That's an impressive record.

That boy had a chin. A bit like McLean. I didn't even think of Hagler. Never really, I associate Hagler with kind of a bit of everything, you know, the grit, the durability. But, Chin, you forget how good it was. Yeah. And obviously, again, we go back to the 15 rounds thing.

He was in that era where you're going 15 rounds. 15 rounds. He's going 15 rounds. He wasn't a name to a lot of the time was in a way, fight a way he's picked to lose before he became marvelous Marvin Hagler. And there's something about the hat that says war on it. Obviously, everyone's now copying the gimmick. But that was him.

That war thing was him. That's what you were having to fight. And I feel like he just said a chin that was insane. Insane. Because you look at him boxing wise. He wasn't boxing beautiful. He wasn't a beautiful box, was he? No.

You didn't look at him and think, okay, Ali, Usset Crawford. But he had a grit about him that I just think needs to be discussed. So he was my second on the list. Now, I'm looking forward to hearing Emily's third now after this. After what? After Ali and Triple G. Well, this one I have to admit isn't someone I've ever actually seen because it's not an error I would have watched.

but doing a little bit of research to come prepared to win again I've gone with George Chavala Oh, Chavallo I mentioned didn't I a few weeks back on one of the episodes Yes And I've watched some of the fights Read the stats You mean you read my notes because I had him as my third picture

Oh, there we go, she's done it again Did you? Did you? Literally yeah And that's why I'm saying you read my notes Well I didn't read your notes I just kind of know what I'm talking about. So do you want to fight this one for me? Did you what he just said his last line?

That was definitely debatable. I bet you know what you're talking about. Chivalo, yeah. I mean, never touched down. Punchers like George Foreman, Joe Frazier, to name a few. All the big boys. All the big boys. He was never talented, never the most talented.

He was really just someone who was a high-level journeyman, but never touched down against these. big punters in a time, as we said, 15 rounds, 8 ounce horse hair gloves, and you never touched down. Yeah. It's insane. I watched a couple of interviews where he was saying he kind of credits his short little neck, thick short neck, and he would train that a lot.

He's saying it's all connected. And that is why he says you couldn't do anything to me. Honestly, it's an incredible record. It is. I'm going to switch things up, but just a little bit, just because you mentioned at the start, it isn't just about going down. It's about can you get back up? And I think the most memorable getting back up has to be Tyson Fury against Deonti Wilder.

There's something about Tyson Fury's ability to somehow recover that's beyond me. Yeah. It doesn't quite make sense to me how he can get a shalacking. I mean, while the land of that shot and celebrated and walked off thinking it's done and everybody's party, and then he sees him rise, as you say, like the Undertaker. And he's done it time and time again in East Korea. And one thing about Fury as well, he gets knocked down, but no one ever calls him Cheney. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. The amount of times he's actually been on the cameras, maybe it is because he gets up. Even against Usik, where he gets wobbled all over the ring in that round nine. Six times he's been down. Six times he's been down. Against Usik.

But there's not, it's not a bad record when you're fighting the big boys. Especially if you can get up. Yeah. And I think that's what the credit is. Others have got knocked down and they stay down. He sometimes, even when he gets knocked down and gets up,

he wins the round. But that final round against Wilder, he won the round. The fight against Usik, where he gets wobbled all over the place in that round nine, he wins round. on 10. So his ability to recover

needs to be studied. I think the sheer size of him and his chin. Yeah. Like that elongated. Yeah. She has the beard on. It definitely takes,

you know, it's got cushion almost. There's a bit of cushion. Because they're clipping him, but they're obviously clipping the wrong part. So it's like it goes, but it doesn't affect him.

You know that when the brain, look, I never understood it, but when you get knocked down, obviously it's almost like a short circuit, right? It goes. And always he's just wired to,

to come back again. It's like just how we're back, we're normal, let's go again. I just find super, super impressor. So he's in there for me, just for resilience and how we just seems to overcome this getting knocked down.

The one thing about Fury is I agree with like most of what you said. He's in there with big punchers. He's getting dropped, but he's recovering. But he's been dropped by little light punches like Steve Cunningham and Evan Pikes. But that's what I mean.

I think they hit a part of his chin that's like so far down here that it's not, doesn't hurt him it just is like an off button like no one else has Okay see the Steve Cunningham one Yeah That's a great example

That was a knockdown where you thought the fight was over I remember the way Steve Cunningham And I remember thinking I was done then But Steve Cunningham has like what Like five career knockouts In his career

He was a cruiserweight He was a cruiserweight Cut and Punch And Steve Cunningham For that fight weighed 210 pounds He weighed about 15 stone Tyson Fury was in what 260.

So you got hit by a guy who's, what, 40 pounds lighter than you, who's not a puncher, and he still puts you down. I've always felt my thing about not being a punch, I've always felt like everyone can punch. It's where it lands. If it lands somehow clean, I remember Josh Warrington against Carverett, everyone says, Josh can't punch.

Josh is knocking people out. If it somehow, if you land at the exact right spot, I think you will be out. And he got up against Steve Cunningham. He did get up against him. up against Steve Cunningham. He always gets up. Always gets up.

But still. You have to nail him to the floor. Be better just to not get dropped at all though. Yeah. Yeah, you see? Like Gennardi Gullochin. Yeah, that's hard. A lot to do with the big boys.

Like Gennady Galovkin. I think we know where this is going, don't we? Well, is the only one we've all ever had the unanimously three? Unanimous. I find it hard not to. You can't. No. And again, with Tyson Fury, we know he can go down.

He can get back up. Gannadi Gailovkin. No, he just doesn't go down. He just doesn't go down at all. 400 fights not to go down. Unless that's some sort of mythical story in the amateurs, but I'm guessing someone would have found some sort of tape about him. To not have ever touched down in 400 is just...

It's insane. It's ridiculous. Absolutely insane. Is that just luck? No. How do you train your chin? How do you train your brain then to not go down? Do some people just have that ability to absorb shots?

I think so. I think so. Yeah. I love that. It's to do with the muscles, the neck, the shoulders. You can definitely add to it, right? Yeah. But surely if you've got it, you've got it.

But there are certain fighters who you can see them in hypothetical situations. Like you can see Fury getting stopped or you can see, like literally it's unthinkable to see Triple G on the canvas. Yeah. Like you just cannot actually fathom that. That's how good the chin is. Everyone knows it. He knows it. It's got to be. I'm happy to go Triple G as well.

Yes, there you go. I'm happy to say Triple G. Triple G is the chin. He is the chin. Right, Frankenstein. All right, here we go. The hot take. This is it, right.

We're going to discuss one subject that I think the boxing world have probably been discussing quietly and silently, but we're going to bring it to the table and make some noise around it. The first one, because we might go for a few here, does boxing need one world governing body? Yes. Yeah. It does, doesn't it? It's the Wild World West, isn't it? It is the Wild West.

There is no judge. There's no jury. There's nothing. No, we have four sanctioning bodies, and they all have different rules. So you don't like one rule at one. You can just go and fight for this title. You need one to say, this is how it is, this is how it's going to be, where else can you go? But then we have a monopoly system.

But is that a bad thing? It could be. It's like the wild wild west now. So is it bad if we get everyone under one umbrella and we say, this is how it's going to be. Don't care if you don't like it. Tough. I still think there could be a mess, but I still think it will be better than it is now. I look at other sports, FIFA, UEFA.

at the IOC when it comes to Olympics everything's got their own we are the head honchos and we'll make a decision and look even those organisations to an extent get it wrong but it's still better than the mess it is right now I think it's all over the place

like even the IBF and this rehydration clause thing they have other organisations don't have it so can we all get under one umbrella and just do the same thing to least they need to all be on the same page if we're keeping four books yeah it's not

and not only that we've got four sanctioned bodies and then you've got these little ones like the IBO it's like we don't need any more we need just one Why does no one give it any respect like how does it get that

Is it time? Is it what's the deal with it? Because it doesn't deserve any respect Why? The Ibo Why? Because who the hell like They just

Who cited any of them? Why have them Why have any of them got in? Well they all came from somewhere Right They all came from somewhere And some promoters have done A little bit more work

Like Frank Warren the WBO close and he helped them get established. The IBO and I think back in the day it was like the WBU as well, things like that. It's like, okay, now it's a crowd and no promoters have their favorites now. So they don't want to work with crowds like this. The IBO is literally like, what is it? That's literally like me. You sound like reform and not wanting the boats to come to the country anymore. So, yeah, but the WBO would have been that. Yeah. At one point, the WBC and the WBA would have been like, well, no, no, no, no.

No, no, no, no, no, no. So there's too many of us. We don't want you in here. And all of a sudden, they're now established. I look at people that have had the IBO belt. And I think they've done a lot to promote that belt. Lennox Lewis has had the belt. Mani Pakell's had the belt. Kras had the belt. people have had the belt that have been good world champions. I don't think it's a bad belt. I think there's too many of them. I think there's too many. I'd rather just go to one. But I don't think we should be kicking down the IBO. I think we should.

And I think we should be kicked them all down, to be honest, and just getting rid of them. I mean, if you think about this, the WBC literally have it in their rules. If a rule says something, we can amend it. Like, they can literally make the rule up as they go along. Oh, in the rules, it says, you know, a fighter from the top 10 must fight for,

oh let's just change that a fighter who's fought in the last 15 years can challenge for our title which is basically what they've done with rick overhoeven that's not that's not right get rid of them get rid of them all get rid of them have one sanctioning body one overarching you know governing body that's it this is how it's going to be like it or lump it simple ass yeah i think it's easier to then establish who is the best in the world as well exactly like sometimes you have four world champions in the same division you're like okay who is number one here well that's why they unify yeah but then even that takes ages and then they all take a bit of the money, don't they?

As well, okay, well, one second, you want a unify, we'll take a bit of that sanctioning fee, that percentage, that percentage, that percentage. I think it just needs one, one ruler. Someone needs to make the decision and let those decisions stand.

There are too many just irregularities with all of them. Yeah. Like the WBC say, their rule book will say this, and then WBA will say something completely different. And then the WBO.

And I'm like, what is the rules here? And I think it's just confusing. If it's confusing for us, boxing fans, Can you imagine the average Joe on the street what they think and what they must. Well, they don't think, not think in general, but they don't think about all the logistics and politics behind it. They just assume it's a belt, you fight for it, done.

They don't understand that there's fines and fees and sanctioning, you know, the fees that go along with winning a belt. You have to pay to have the pleasure of holding this little belt. You know the thing though was better for me And you know like in the 50s and 60s The 70s That world champion was the world champion That was it Okay you are the guy

Exactly You know I mean you're the person Now there are so many Everyone seems to walk to the ring of a belt Of some shape or form Whether it be the international The interim there's always a belt on the line I'm like

What is this belt? And that's the thing It dilutes it doesn't it It literally dilutes it You have one belt One title Now you're fighting for the WBO Intercontinental

Oh, well, well done. There's an achievement right there. Your WBO Intercontinental title. Oh, come here. You can put that on your headstone. I was WBO Intercontinental Champion. Brilliant. I won a five in the lot.

Oh, there you go. Simple as. And the biggest thing as well, and one of the biggest things is the drugs. Yes. Yeah, there needs to be like, again, every organization has their rules. And, you know, if you do cheat,

we can suspend you for this amount of time. If you're famous, it might be less. If you're rich, you can pay for a lawyer. There needs to be one blanket on this. And a world governing body would be the overseer of it all, I think. Yeah, that I think works. So they, all these places, places, all these bodies can stay. But there needs to be one that sits above them and make sure everyone's rules across the board are in line.

Yeah. It needs to be like, you know, they're the vassals. They're like vassals of this one governing body. They're what? Vassals. You know like vassal states No First time I'm hearing

What's he saying Vassal states You know it's like It'd be like You know say you're a king Yeah right And you've got dukes Yeah

You know You're my vassal So you're saying vessel Vessel Like something you could Like a vessel No A vassal state

You ever heard A terminology No No Okay Well it's a history terminology So I wouldn't expect

You know about Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Shots fired I'm Two against one here still

So And I still come out on top. Do you want to explain that to the, to the listener? So basically you have an overarching governing body, right? They are kind of in the background, but they control everything. And the WBC, WBA, WBO, even though they have their titles, they have, you know, maybe their own rules, they still answer to the main governing body. Yeah, which is what I just said. That's what I mean. Yeah, so like a vassal of, there you go. Who runs boxing? Like, who's the power broker inboxing?

Has it always been the promoters? Or is it the sanctioning bodies? Although we're saying should there be one world governing body, isn't the issue really the promoters? Yes, because we can say what the sanctioned bodies, you know, they make the decision.

Look, in the 80s, Don King, whatever Don King wanted, WBC gave them. Yes. So they might be, oh yeah,

we're the head with our belt, but like Don King wants this. Okay, yeah, there you go. It's the promoters. They have the power. It's money.

They're all profitable businesses, right? so they're going to allow certain people to do what they want if they're paying them enough money. That's what needs to stop. There's a reason the WBC's belt is green. It's their favourite colour. I just thought it needs to be cleaned up.

I think it almost needs to be like a, most sports, almost like a table, some sort of league or something where I win, I go up, do you know what I mean? If I'm fighting now and I've been fighting and I'm doing my best to put myself in a world title position and someone with more fans and more Instagram followers comes and just jumps me. I'm like, this is wrong.

It's wrong. And that's how boxing has been and it's wrong. And you touched on something earlier. You were saying about, you know, the average fan, the casual fan, right? If they hear repeatedly Alexander Usik heavyweight champion, Alexander Usik heavyweight champion, and then they watch Graham Norton and Daniel Dubois comes out, heavyweight champion Daniel Dubois, you're like, say what? I thought it was Usik.

It's confusing. We don't need that. We need, he's the champion. That's it. If he loses it, he's the champion. None of this vacate this. He can pick this up and then we have one champion. I know with three.

There you go. So I think the conclusion is we do need a world governing body. We do absolutely need a world governing body. Do any of us think that would happen, can happen, should happen? I mean, should we know, yes. Do you think that will happen in boxing? No. No.

And I think that the sanction, and I think is what the promoters. The promoters are like, I like the WBC. I like what they're doing, you know, because they're doing it for them. And then if a governor body comes in, it's like, well. I actually think the promoters would like their, to be no governing bodies because they're a pain in their ass no the ones that they don't like

are a pain in their ass the ones I don't think they like any of them they just have to get along with certain ones because otherwise the fights don't happen right all right yeah world governing body needed

yes that is the final belt that was some that was a serious shot best one I've done yeah that was the best one that was a serious trying to make sure

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