And That's Why We Drink - E427 Chiropractic Adjustments for the Soul and Could-Be-Me Shadow Men

Episode Date: April 13, 2025

Welcome to ATWWD Presents the Wicked Recap! Just kidding, it’s Episode 427 and this week Em takes us to Iowa for the super haunted Farrar Schoolhouse. Then Christine covers the well known and very upsetting story of Amber Hagerman aka the case that spawned the creation of the AMBER Alert system. And you better believe you’ll catch us messing with the space-time continuum in the afterlife… and that’s why we drink! Clips from Em’s Story: Farrar School Kids Recital Soccer Balls on Command Basketball Wobbling (33:00 min mark) EVP (4:20 min mark) Interested in adopting the adorable Hank? Visit https://www.barknbitches.com/ for more info! For a list of resources or ways to help those affected by the fires in Los Angeles visit: http://bit.ly/atwwdfirehelp ! Only a few cities remaining for our Pour Decisions Tour! Get your tickets today at http://andthatswhywedrink.com/live ! ______________________ For their buy 1 get 1 50% off deal, head to 3DayBlinds.com/DRINK. For a limited time, get 40% off your first box plus a free item in every box for life. Go to http://hungryroot.com/DRINK and use code DRINK. Right now, And That’s Why We Drink listeners can save 30% on their first order! Just head to http://cornbreadhemp.com/DRINK and use code DRINK at checkout. Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at https://www.rula.com/DRINK#rulapod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I noticed that you're the Glinda to my Elphaba today. Oh, I didn't do that on purpose. But I yes I did, though. Oh, that's very magical of you. I think that was good with green. I didn't ever watch that film. And I know I should have. I'm not surprised.

I just felt overwhelmed by the whole thing. And I, like, I've said this on the show. I hadn't seen a movie since 2019. So like, it just felt like a big step to go from nothing, from like pre-COVID to like suddenly seeing Wicked five years later. So I just kinda like, I kinda skirted past. I'm sure in a year I'll have like a full awakening about it

and then everything will be on sale and I'll just, you know, be fine. But yeah, right now I'm just kind of winging it. So, glad it's working though. I'm gonna skip right past that red flag and keep it moving. Don't worry, I saw it enough times for both of us twice. So it's fine.

I know that's what I mean. I was so overwhelmed. I was like, listen, everyone else has got this handled. One of the best things that I wish you would have been a part of is that they, for Christmas, offered some movie theaters a single long option. So you could go and be annoying instead of like, I like how they had to bring that promise early of like, don't fucking sing during the movie,

we'll give you something for Christmas. But you were so intense about it that I was like, I think I'm not prepared for this. Like, Emma's so prepared and so like, so like in it, and I'm not, like you were saying things I didn't even understand. Yeah, it makes sense. What's happening?

I'm like, I've seen Wicked multiple times. I love Wicked, but like, I just missed this whole genre, this whole like side quest we've had, or not even side quest, but like leap forward in the Wicked lore. I've just kind of missed it. So I'll get there eventually. But for now, I just want to match with you.

Thank you. Well, this is, I love that you were able to, you know, be a part of Knock Off Wicked. Yeah, thanks. And that's why this whole episode will be in song. Ready? Honestly, careful what you wish for, because I will. I will. Well, welcome to And That's Why We Drink presents the Wicked Recap mo and christine yeah um i'm here too what what's going on why do you drink god you know this is okay this is first of all it's been a really hard day we ran out of iced coffee i thought you might say something like that. It was really difficult and so I had to take the coffee from the coffee pot and put it over ice and then oh my god, it's just been a really hard day and so I did that and then

that's what I'm drinking, but the reason I drink I have a lot but How do I say this? You know when you're really traumatized By life. Yeah, of course. Yeah, so I'm just kind of like You know when you're really traumatized by life? Yeah, of course. Yeah, so I'm just kind of like exploring all that and getting like retraumatized over and over by accident. About what?

Just like everything. I've been working on a lot of like deep psychological stuff and therapy and like doing shadow work and like really digging into some dark things in my past, not to be traumatic. And then I'm like, why do I keep having nightmares or sleep, why do I have insomnia? Why do I keep having panic attacks? How come I can't breathe? And it's like, oh, right. Cause I'm just dredging a bunch of shit up

to try and kind of get it out of my system. I think I've held onto a lot, body keeps the score and all that. So I'm just kind of on a day-to-day basis, winging my life, and last night I went to bed so late and I woke up from this weird nightmare at 4 a.m. and was like, good morning, and I had slept two hours, and I was like, I'm awake now.

And I just kind of like, I just feel like I'm in kind of a space where my brain and my body and my soul are like, wait a minute, we're like, we need a chiropractic adjustment of all three of us or something to like, put us back together. Okay, well, I know a chiropractor. Do you? Yeah. Do you? Do I get a friends and family discount is what I want to know. You if you wanted to be there, yeah. I actually

think maybe that person that you're talking about may have like contributed to part of this, you know, probably, you know, and some on some like, on some like dark psychic level, certainly, certainly for me for me, yeah. Certainly for you, and I can't imagine it didn't leak over. I'm sure the time we've spent together, all our shit has leaked over into each other's. Everyone's sludge kind of slams into each other eventually.

It's sludging around. But the good news is I've been writing a lot, like a mad woman. I scrolled up through something I had been writing, and I was like, what am I, is this a manifesto? Like, what am I doing? And then I look closer and like, don't worry, it wasn't a manifesto, but at first I was like,

man, I just have a lot of shit to say. And I think it's just, I'm like purging a lot of like memories and things that I wanna get out of my system and, you know, not be awoken by at like 6 a.m. So that's where I'm at. And I didn't sleep so, so my coffee being gone has been really hard. Have I really?

I get it. I get it. I mean, first of all, you're so brave with the coffee specifically. Oh my God, thank you so much. That heals me. I don't mean, first of all, you're so brave with the coffee. Oh my God. Thank you so much. I don't know how you've survived to tell your story. First of all.

Well, I barely have, as you can tell. Um, second of all, do you feel like in this journey you're on, I mean, maybe it's too amorphous big blob vagueness that you can't, um, you wouldn't know the answer to this, but do you feel like you're 50% out of the woods? Do you feel like you're just starting? Do you feel like it gets worse before it gets better? I think I'm in that, like, I think I'm in a really transformative spot where it will be kind of like,

like I think I've gone through a lot of the hard things, like the really big like hurdles. And now it's just kind of like, like I think I've gone through a lot of the hard things, like the really big like hurdles. And now it's just kind of like the come down from all that. Like just get, like, it's almost like I had a very heightened and like intensely anxious like few months, you know? And then you kind of like afterwards, you feel like kind of sick or your body like,

it's like- Like a purge. Like purging it. It almost feels like I'm purging stuff and it's like I have so much... Now that I'm doing a lot of trauma work, I realize I'm like, a lot of my body just starts shaking, and it's just this trauma release stuff.

And so I've been kind of in a weird physical space, but it doesn't feel bad. It feels like you're getting stuff out of your system, if that makes sense, but it's a lot. It's very overwhelming, but in a good way. So it's a journey, but I feel a bit more clarity than I used to, and I feel like things are getting better, but it's been like one of those,

I was like, all right, I'm ready to do it. My therapist was like, are you sure? We're gonna dive into the deep dark stuff. And I was like, yeah, no problem. So I knew it would be a rough year, but it's kind of like, whoo, it's bumpy. But anyway. It's April, I mean.

And it's only April. What's eight more months, you know, it's bumpy. But anyway. It's April. I mean, what's- And it's only April. What's eight more months, you know? What's eight more months? So anyway, that's where I'm at. How are you, Em? Man, this dog has- This dog, I gotta say last night- Talk about transformative,

because I am a- Oof. I feel like a different person these days. Literally, we got on the call and Em goes, go eat your cucumbers. And I'm like, oh my God, did you, did your dog, it's a three year old now. I think you have a toddler like I do. Like it's, you've become a parent so fast. And at last night called me and was like, oh, like the dog is acting funny. Like, and I was like, this dog is like, you said something like, oh, I want to make

sure I'm not just like overreacting. I'm like, you're not overreacting. Nothing's like, I don't think terribly wrong. You're not overreacting though, because this dog is like banana, like bark. Yes, yeah. Like I thought like, oh, you know, people are like, oh, I'm overreacting about like, I'm too anxious about the dog.

And I'm like, yeah, well, I'm thinking about one particular friend. And I'm like, please like put down the phone. You don't need to call 911, you know, he's just took an extra long nap today or whatever, you know, but like with your dog, it's like, oh no, something's up. I just don't know that a veterinarian can fix it. Much like really out there, much like all the other people surrounding my life,

um, that there's no doctor who can save them. Um, oh boy, this dog though, Emma was like, this is what he's doing. He's trying to climb into the car backwards. And I went, this dog though, Em was like, this is what he's doing, he's trying to climb into the car backwards. And I went, I'm sorry, what? And Em goes, I don't understand, he's just acting so strange, he's suddenly doing all these things.

And I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't know if he's just like kind of like- He's got a screw loose, I don't know. I mean, it feels like he's doing things that like a little three-year-old would try to do. Like it feels- Right, it feels like a child. Like the way you described it and then you're like, oh, and now he knows it's going to bother me.

So he did this and then like, oh, he took this and hid it somewhere in the house. And I'm like, this is a, this is mischievous. He's very mischievous. And he knows it and he's smart, which is so dangerous. Yeah. The thing that scared me yesterday is that he got a hold of like the, the bag that has like plastic clips on it. And he bit the clip. I got very freaked out thinking he swallowed it. And I was was like do I go to the doctor? What do I do? but I also It really overshadowed the fact that he is a lot like me because in that bag was five

M-sized handfuls of treats that were supposed to last a week and he ate all of them And then and then all the activity started with him Uh-huh sounds like I'm saying ghost activity, but it is sort of paranormal activity that he's doing. And he starts jumping into the car backwards and he starts weaving in and out around the sidewalk. And I'm like, I don't know if he's just jazzed

because he gotcha good, you know? If he's all alpha now because he broke the back. I don't know. Or he has so many treats in him that he's like, is hyper? I don't know. It was just bananas to witness. I was like, what the fuck is going on? And then Christine even asked, like,

were there like edibles in your bag? I literally wondered. Is he high? Em Lapton was like, no, I've already thought of that to check because like that's how like strange, erratic he's acting. Yeah, he's just- But he's better now, right?

He's fine now. He seems to be. He, by the way, the sound you're're hearing everybody if it sounds like little rumblings and in the audio He has decided that only right here is where he wants to eat the bone that keeps him quiet. So So much for being quiet. It's actually a little annoying, but this is the most quiet he'll be so we all have to unfortunately sit through this so That's what's going on with it. It's like you brought your kid to school and you're like, just sit.

Well, I don't know if this ever happened because your parent is not a teacher, but my mom, when she would sometimes teach at UC and like one of us was sick, she would or like was faking sick usually. She would bring us along and we'd have to sit like underneath her desk. Like as if Sputnik was gonna happen. Yeah. Like hide in case there was like a, like some sort of major disaster.

On their way. No, because I think it's because probably she was like a TA and she probably was not supposed to bring her child to work. And I think she was like, go hide under my desk. And so I remember just sitting under there and drawing. And now I'm like, I probably wasn't supposed to be there. Like, can you imagine being in a college class and then you're like, is that a person under that?

Like, did I just see feet under that desk? Like what's happening? I would be so freaked out. And like little girl, a little girl giggling. Oh my God. I'd be like, is this place haunted for sure? Like, for sure. Please tell me you snuck your kid in here. Otherwise, it's a ghost.

Yeah. Yeah, it was me. Hang on. No, no, we're not doing that. You need that. Oh, no. OK, good boy. And like 99 percent of the time, it would have been like a sinus infection. So I can't imagine it sounded very nice to have me under there. And I can't imagine it was a very clean place

for my sinuses, but you know, again, my mom was a single mom and had to take me to work. It's not her fault. But that's what it feels like with you and this dog all of a sudden. Thank you. I'll take that as a compliment. I do want you to know that you just pretend

that you've heard rumors that this school is haunted and you're one of the students sitting in that class. And then you hear a sick little girl speaking German and giggling under a desk. No, she's just like humming a German lullaby like to try taking a nap. Just leaving her like little rag doll on the floor somewhere. Yeah.

Man, well, yeah. Anyway, the reason I drink is just one Hank still hasn't been adopted to our to our knowledge. I don't know when this comes out, what that will look like. Everyone seems half interested at the dog park. But then, you know, he still hasn't found his mommy and daddy or mommy and mommy or daddy and daddy or parent and parent. And I really, I really, I really want him to one because I'm so tired too, because like, I just feel bad. Like I keep doing that thing where when he's like sleeping so peacefully, then I just think about like, Oh, he doesn't have a home. And like, I just, I then I like start getting really emotional. That's how they get you. Well, it's not getting, I just keep thinking, hurry up, like, like find something.

But no, I'm just, I, I feel like my reality is slowly like being written for me that this dog seems to just be my dog begrudgingly. And I keep wanting to find him a place. I want him to like have, you like have a yard and all that, but it's just difficult. What if you found out that I had Megan screen all the DMs and emails so that nobody adopted him so that you kept him forever?

Can I do that? Is that a thing I can do? That seems, that's probably the most fucked up. I think that's probably really fucked up because you're really not supposed to like force anyone to have a pet they're not ready for. But I just, something is like, man, the second you said Hank, to me,

when I asked you what his name was, I was like, oh, that's an M dog name. Hank is a- Which is wild because I would never name a dog Hank. I just feel like it feels so, Hank, it feels so right to me. Elmo did too, but that one seems like one you would name like as an eight-year-old you would name dog that's true I know he's I will say that him and I have gotten into like we understand each other now and like I have a

On most days. He's very good. It's just his like if you leave him alone for too long He's still like a baby and like just gets rowdy and And so like that was how yesterday happened, where he went into that thing, because it was the first time I like left for a long period of time. Right. So like I have a crate. He has a crate. But he if you come back within like a few hours, he's totally fine. This was the first time I was like testing like an all day situation. Oh, I see. So I knew I was testing the waters.

And then that happened. So you kind of knew you were walking into a bad situation. I literally took a big deep breath before I opened the door. I was like, what am I going to find? But no, he's usually good if you leave him alone for a certain amount of time. But yeah, we're figuring it out. And I will say, this is not something I ever expected, but I am really popping off in the dog park community.

I knew that. You never thought you'd say that? That feels so right. I feel like a PTA dad or something at the dog park. I'm serious. This is what you're becoming. And I feel, honestly, I bore witness to it last night over the phone and I felt like while you were taking the dog to the dog park and I was like,

this is like, I'm watching you blossom into a role that I was waiting. That's perfect for you. It's beautiful. My old sorority years are coming back where I like, I'm really, I know everyone's name. I know all their dogs. Mother Hen. Yeah. So anyway, I don't really know why I drank. I think it's just

like a vague Hank theme. Yeah, it's just the theme of Hank. But I don't know if I drink in a good way or I drink in a bad way because in some ways I'm really grateful that, you know, I've learned quite a lot about myself through this. I learned that I can train a dog if I have to. I learned that I'm very good at the dog park. But I'm also just, he's a puppy and I'm tired. And as I'm saying this, he's trying to get on the table. So, nope, nope, nope, nope, thank you. No, thank you. There he is.

Can you sit? I don't know what you want. Okay, we'll just, okay, just sit. Yeah, that's a handful. That's more than a handful. Oh my God. Thank you. Okay, everyone.

I was, oh my God, he's so cutie-cutie. Good boy, good boy. Good boy. Look at that. That is like Gio's cousin, except with Cattle Dog. Here, keep that. Thank you. Cattle Dog, is that what that spotting is?

Yeah, I am assuming Cattle Dog. Look at him, he is such a little ham, oh my God. Yeah, every minute with him is a different adventure than the last. Wow, this dog is- No biting, hey, gentle. Yeah, Gio kind of wasn't ever, he was a puppy and he was a pain in the ass, but he was so much smaller

Yeah, this is a big money big boys make big problems. Is that right hinkies? That's what we always say We say little hanky panky. Oh, no. I was see he's trying to go on table Okay, so this is what happens when they feel slightly validated and then they're like got it. Here I come Let go, leave it. You have the headphone cord. Leave it Hank. Grab him by the scruff. No, I got it. I just had to unleash his jaw. Unlock his jaw. Hankies let's, hmm, what are we going to do? Look at him, he's putting his paw on your arm. I know he thinks he's precious. He's not. Come here. Do you see this?

Over there. Go away. Okay. Um like I have to meal prep before we record like five different interactive toys so when he gets bored of one he's got another one. It's very annoying. Just like you've it's just amazing. It just feels like you've entered a new era even if it's temporary which like I'm assuming someone will adopt Hank, but like even this little window, I'm like, this is hilarious. It feels like you, not in a mean way, but just like a, wow,

I'm like watching you in a totally different dynamic than I'm used to and it's very interesting. I'm sure, yeah. Cause like I haven't known you to have a pet at all ever. So it's like, this is so fun. To take care of something other than myself yeah. Yeah not even a plant I've seen so you know it's really fun for me to watch. Well thank you.

You grow into the role. Thank you uh and to yeah anyway I've taken up way too much time talking about him. I've become a dog parent where he's all I have to say. I don't mind yeah I don't mind remember the beginning it's all I have to say. I don't mind. Yeah, I don't mind. Remember the beginning, it's all people still complain we don't talk about Gio enough. And I'm like, trust me, we did enough of that for everybody. This is like season eight of a show where it's slowly dying down and you're like,

oh, we gotta bring a new baby on. They're like, oh, we gotta like, ral everybody up, get some good promo going, yeah. Maybe I already adopted him and I'm just letting it linger for a year. Oh, you're just playing along, like will won't they yeah come a family. Yeah, exactly No, anyway, it does feel like I did not Necessarily want to have this dog around certainly not for this long

I don't think he wants to be here and so every morning we kind of look at each other and we just eye roll We're saying another day you again. All right, let's keep moving. Back at it. So, um, anyway, that's why I drink Hank is the reason. Yeah. Um, that's it. What are you drinking? My gross coffee. Oh, right. I'm drinking me a water until a certain someone whose name rhymes with spank. He's going to he's going to hear the crinkle of the water bottle and go fucking nuts. So I was going to say, don't don't you dare squeeze that thing or else we know how the day will go. He loves a bottle.

OK, well, before he notices that he that there's other food frozen available to him, let's get into a story. notices that there's other food frozen available to him. Let's get into a story. Yay. Oh, happy two, two, two. I just looked at the clock. On the second. Oh my God, yeah, four, two. Wait, sorry.

Can I be selfish with my time for a second? No. I do have another reason why I drink and it's a big one is that, first of all, today is my mother's birthday but yesterday was her first day of retirement. I saw that. It's a very weird feeling to have her retired because her whole her whole identity was like in it was her job. So I'm actually very hesitant to see who she will become now because I've never known her

to be anything else. Powerful, you and Linda are both going through such life changes right now. I know, maybe she can take the dog. I was gonna say, Linda's a grandma also now, or I'm sure she wants to go by Gigi or something. Oh, she, by the way, this is like, I didn't even set this up.

Do you know what she goes by? With like her- No, no. Well, let me guess. Take a look at the two of us. Ah! And her name is Linda. I don't get it. Glinda.

No, oh, oh, see? She wants to be called Glinda. No, oh, oh, see? She wants to be called Glinda? Oh, like Grandma Linda, like or G Linda. Okay, I get it. Yeah, she, I didn't know this. I found out when other small children- Actually, that's pretty clever. I found out when other small children saw her on FaceTime and went, hi Glinda.

And I went, what the fuck did you just say? And apparently that's the name she picked. I mean, it really is like something you would do. So. I mean, she's, there's not a moment in her life she doesn't want to be wearing a tiara. So, I mean, it works out. I'm so happy for her though.

Congrats, Glinda. Yeah, thank you. I, yeah, no, it's a very big time. And also she started her job at 23 and today she turned 63. So it was 40 whole years of her job and so you've hurt your whole life yeah she's had this yeah wow yeah that's really cool it's a it's a very weird time so if anyone else is going through their parents retiring and it feels really strange just know that you're not alone because it's a weird identity crisis for me because I now have to relearn her identity

Because she was so enmeshed in her in that world. So Anyway, it's it'll be a weird adjustment period. I'm sure to hear about all her new hobbies. That will be I'm scared I mean to but I scared wait and I and I wonder to With this much free time, at some point she will be the Jewish mother trope and just appear on my doorstep at some point. So, terrified. When she finds out she has a grandson named Hank. Who can magically say Glinda

with his mouth and everything. It's amazing, he's so well-trained. Anyway, that's the real reason why I drink. So, happy birthday to my mom and congratulations, but also very scared. Aw, me too. So as you know, we've recently moved into a house and I'm not getting one of the first things Alison said

was the blinds have to go. The blinds that are the last person, her name's Lindsay. Sorry, Lindsay, but your blinds kind of suck. It's maybe not her fault. Maybe she. Sorry, Lindsey, but your blinds kinda suck. It's maybe not her fault. Maybe she didn't know about three-day blinds, okay? We have like that extra edge because we know all about three-day blinds

and how much it can transform your home. Let me just tell you, it's 2025, people. Are your blinds still from 2005? I mean, my guess is yeah. My guess is probably earlier than that, to be honest. Well, three-dayblinds is here. Right now if you use our URL, 3dayblinds.com slash drink, they're actually running a buy one get one 50% off deal.

That was just directed at Allison right now because I know she needs it. Yeah. 3dayblinds has local professionally trained design consultants with an average of over 10 years of experience and they provide expert guidance on the perfect blinds for your space, all from the comfort of your home. Choose from thousands of options that fit any budget or style with actual samples that you won't be guessing what your blinds will look like. Right now get quality window treatments that fit your budget with 3-day blinds. Head to 3dayblinds.com drink for their buy one get one 50% off deal on custom blinds shades shutters and drapery. For a

free no charge no obligation consultation just go three, that's the number three, threedayblinds.com slash drink. One last time, that's buy one, get one 50% off when you visit the number three, D-A-Y, blinds.com slash drink. So Christine, I tried to be productive this week and go physically grocery shopping. Why?

Because I like to suffer, I suppose. Yeah, I guess so. I hated it. I have really gotten so used to Hungry Root, just handling it for me that, Yeah. I don't know what I was thinking. What were you thinking?

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We love Hungry Root. Take advantage of this exclusive offer. For a limited time, get 40% off your first box plus get a free item in every box for life. Go to hungryroot.com slash drink and use code drink. That's hungryroot.com slash drink code drink to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. hungryroot.com slash drink code drink. Um, okay, here is a spooky story for you, Christine. I worked very hard on this, so you better be nice to me at the end. I'll try my best. I'll try. You know, it's hard for me, but I'll try. Uh, this is the

Farrar Schoolhouse. And this is a 17,000 square foot schoolhouse. So in my mind, when I think schoolhouse, I think like, oh, like a one room schoolhouse. This was a way to merge multiple one room schoolhouses and it became a big-ass school building. Oh, wow. So is it- A school mansion. Okay, so it's like, but is it one prop, one building,

or is it like multiple buildings on the prop? So there were multiple school houses in neighboring counties, but I guess the towns were really small back then. So around 1919, this farmer, he donated six acres of his own farmland that I guess happened towns were really small back then. So around 1919, this farmer, he donated six acres of his own farmland that I guess happened to like be central to all of those schools

and they decided to merge all of them. So I don't know if that means like build new things to connect all the spaces or just close them all out. Push them together. Push them together or since they were all centrally located, all the kids could find their way to this new building kind of in the middle of all of it. Right, like a headquarters. Yeah.

So this town was super small. I mean, they're merging one room schoolhouses. So it's like one step above the smallest you can be. But it's how many? But it's huge, right? Or no. How many square feet? 17,000.

But I think that includes outside. I was going to say that is fucking ginormous. That has to be the full land, right? Or the property itself. That's like, I mean, it sounds huge to me. I mean, unless it's like many, many stories and it's, you know. It's three stories in a basement, but it does what I've seen.

I did a, I walked through a whole like video walkthrough tour of it. You would. And I mean, it's like school size. It had like a gymnasium and an auditorium, but it's all stacked on each other. I'm also just really not good at numbers, so I could be like totally off and that's a normal size for a school and I'm just being like...

I don't know. So my house is under a thousand. So times my house by like 20. I guess that's like, yeah, it's not that. I mean, it's not it's like big, but it's not multiple stories. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. Yeah. And since it's three floors, I'm imagining. I don't know if you're a realtor, tell me.

But I think 17 square feet is like including every single floor. So if you divide 17000 by three floors, then maybe it's like- It's per floor, as long as it's a livable, usable floor, not like a dirt basement sort of thing. Okay, so it's just like a really big house size, I would imagine. Actually, the more I think about it, I'm like, well, yeah, actually,

that's probably not unreasonable to have a 17,000. I think I just hear one room schoolhouse, and I think it's like the size of my bedroom. And then I'm like, yeah. Yes, I had the same thing. I will, because you think schoolhouse, you hear one room schoolhouse and then you hear square footage that's in the five digits and you're like, that doesn't feel right.

That's weird. So anyway, it's big enough to be a fucking school. But yeah, it's on old farmland. The town for our Iowa, it's in Iowa. It's a super small town. I literally looked at the population today and there's 13 houses. Houses, oh my God.

Apparently there was, these days there's roughly 30 people that like- Oh my God. Officially live in Farrar. I think it's like it borders several other big counties. So it's like a teeny tiny little blip on the map maybe. Yes. Yes. A quote about their population, by the way. The speed limit sign doubles as the population sign

and the speed limit sign is 35. Oh my God. Wait, what a fun fact. I know, isn't that fun? I love that. And then the rest of the quote is, the only growing population here is the cemetery. Yikes. Which great time for me to mention that across

from this schoolhouse is a 150 year old cemetery. Okay, now we're talking. Which is where I think a lot of people assume the ghosts are from. Because there aren't any documented deaths or anything in the school. So they're like, where'd the ghosts come from? It's like probably the 150 year old cemetery across the way. Yeah, could be. Could be they wandered on over when they saw a 17,000 square foot manor

and were like, what's going on over here? They're like, that's better than my six foot long hole that I'm in. Literally, like my fucking box they put me in, you know? So that was 1919 that the farmer donated his acreage and by 1922 the building was completed and now it's a school. But it was a very lavish school for 1922

because it had boilers, electricity and indoor bathrooms. Wow, that's pretty big I feel like for a school. Yeah, and it was so big that a lot of the town, all three dozen people. All three of them. Yeah. Some people were really upset about how much spending, like public spending went into this school. Oh, well, they're probably like,

why are all the kids, elementary kids getting fucking indoor bathrooms all of a sudden, like, back in my day? I think that's that it must be a common thing around that time, because I think it was the squirrel cage jail or there was some jail that in there in the town the jail was the only place that had a bathroom and everyone was pissed. That's my intrusive thought he's back. There was a jail that I covered at some point I think it was squirrel cage jail where people were so upset that only

the prisoners had a toilet and they didn't and And then they didn't want to fund the prison. So maybe it was just a thing, though. These days, it's like, oh, do you think people should have human rights? And back then, it was like, should prisoners have toilets? Well, they were boots because they were like, well, obviously, they shouldn't have human rights. So that's already asked and answered. Common thread. Next.

Common thread. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or it was just like the, yeah, there must have just been like, oh, there's grandpa.'s asked and answered. Common thread. Next. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or it was just like the yeah, they there must have just been like, oh, there's grandpa, he's old school. He's jealous that everyone else has a potty, you know. No, he brags about using the hole in the backyard. And we're like, you're just jealous. You're just jealous.

That's true. Pull yourself by the bootstraps. Don't wipe. Yeah. Back in my day. So, OK, so they were many of them were upset. And when I say like all three dozen, I think back then the county lines were different and Farrar was a bigger place or at least the cemetery wasn't quite as full because people were still alive. Yeah. Grandpa and his dirty potty.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, he's a he's an institution in this town itself. So I think either the county lines were bigger or because there were towns nearby were more populated and everyone was now going to the central school. Farrar was, even if only a few people lived there, it was still a common space to meet up and go. And so like hundreds of people went to this commencement ceremony that the school had when it opened.

Like it was like this opening. So they could try out the bathrooms. I think that was a. I mean, I would go for that, right? Especially, I mean, imagine a world where like you've never experienced an indoor toilet and you're like, I have to go try that. And it's like near your town or something.

I mean, yeah. There was, it was a huge ceremony. Apparently the people who were anti-toilet, like protested. Oh my God, I wish, I wish somebody had like, Documented it? Yeah, like a newspaper article of like, what the signs they brought said.

Yeah, hmm. All squatty, no potty. I was about to say that. Well, it's squatty potty really did have to work. It doesn't even make sense. I know, I was gonna say all potty, Squatty Pie really did have to work. But it doesn't even make sense. I know, I was gonna say all potty, no squatty, and then you said it and I thought we're geniuses, and then I realized it doesn't mean anything.

There's gotta be a pun somewhere about like this is bullshit. Oh yeah, but they couldn't, there's no way they said that though, right? I'm pissed. Yeah, but again, that feels like it was too improper to say something like that Especially if you were like opposed to a toilet being installed. That means you're like traditional as fuck

You know, give me more than 30 seconds not come up with something. Okay. Okay So some people had a problem with how much money because I will say it was 1922 and Like a hundred grand was like spent on this. I think like this You're not better than me because you use toilet paper and I use a leaf to wipe That's maybe what the sign said You know, I don't have anything better. So yeah, that's great Was it worth it just incredibly interrupting you in the middle of your sentence that I wasn't listening to? I'll say it again. So the money that they did spend, I mean, indoor plumbing was a big deal back then in the 20s.

The amount that they paid was like 100 grand then. I think it was no, it was 100 grand as the number I think it was like a million dollars then. Jeez. And so yeah, a lot of people were like, you couldn't give us fucking toilets first. So eventually people got over it. They joined in on the fact that this was the fancy new building and most people's area.

And actually, they really leaned into it. And because this was the only building in town with indoor bathrooms, the town made it like a public event space after school hours. So, oh, smart. You know, by like five o'clock, that place reeked of poop because everyone was holding it until after school hours They could go use the toilets. Of course the poor plumber. Well, I guess they had to invent a plumber Then the poor plumber is like oh shit now everyone's using the bathroom and it's old school toilets

So like those are getting backed up, you know, I mean, they probably were like now we need to spend more money for more toilets Yeah, yeah, we need to update the piping. Oh, no. No. mean, they probably were like, now we need to spend more money for more toilets. Yeah. Yeah. We need to update the piping. Oh, no, no. Well, so they held community events here. They held club meetings here, like Elk Lodge and shit. We're here. Weddings. Apparently some funerals were held here. All sorts of stuff. That was like a like a public community.

It was like a third space. Um, imagine having like the worst day of your life at school. And now your mom drags you to an Elk Lodge meeting at the same fucking company. At school, yeah, and you're like now, just because dad wants to poop there? Come on, mom. You know the dad makes his kid go with him

when he wants to go poop? And he's like, it'd be weird if I went to the school alone. It would be so weird if I went alone. You have to stand outside, bathroom. Imagine the hall monitor being working working overtime when like an Elk Lodge person shows up. It's like, Oh, please. Do you have your hall pass? Please don't use our toilet. So the school was kindergarten through 12 until I think the fifties.

And then it became just an either an elementary school or a middle school. I, some sources said middle school, but there were literally this school stay open until the 2000s, the early 2000s. And there are YouTube videos. I wanted to send you one. If you you don't there's nothing in particular you have to watch about it. But I thought you'd get a kick out of it that there's like YouTube videos of like, you know, dads making home videos at school of like their kids play or whatever.

They have videos like that of little kids at this future haunted abandoned building. And so it just feels really eerie. So like, I just found like this is a video like second grade elementary school veterans program and it's just a bunch of them like saying the Pledge of Allegiance. 2001 to clarify. 2001. And so in 2001, I was in third grade. These kids are our age today.

Oh, wow. But it's so weird to see like video footage of when this place was popping versus like now it's like decrepit. Is it is it not a school anymore? It's still a school, but it's an abandoned school and very creepy. But so it's not like an active school, like there's no kids there.

No, not an active school anymore. The only comment on this video is from four months ago and it says, I just came from hell week 2024 and- We'll explain, don't worry. Oh, that's the thing you already know about. I thought it was like, oh, maybe they had exams that week. And then you said it's an abandoned school. And I said, never mind.

You don't even worry about how weak it will get addressed. Oh, God. So, so yeah, it was kindergarten through 12, then it just became an elementary school, at least some people say, also a middle school. It sat abandoned after 2002. So it was open from 22 to 2002, eight years. So it's abandoned for a couple of years. And in 2006, a couple named Jim and Nancy, they buy it to restore it and turn it back into an event space and like make it

look like it did in the twenties. But very quickly into owning the building, they started noticing very weird things. They started noticing voices, footsteps, knocking. A veteran's program of second graders singing about America. Just like a pile of children saluting. Yeah, the flag. It was really disturbing. They would see shadow figures and weird light orbs everywhere. And one day, this was when

Nancy was like, oh, this place is really fucking haunted. She is climbing up some of the stairs and she falls backwards and she felt her husband catch her from behind, but when she turned around, no one was there. Oh! Wow, that's a twist. Usually it's like, oh, they got pushed,

but it's like, oh, no, I got caught. You know what's funny? Maybe she was the monkey and monkey in the middle and someone was shoving her and then another was catching her. Oh! It feels like you just did that to the computer. That was Hank coming up here again. Understood, he was like, are we playing a game?

You said the word play. And you said the word monkey in the middle and now I'm ready. Apologies to whatever disgusting chewing sounds you're all hearing right now. So Nancy falls and gets caught by something and then she's like, oh shit, like this place is haunted. A few weeks later though, Nancy's walking on the same steps and when she turns the corner,

she's stopped in her tracks by a full body apparition of a little boy on the stairs just staring at her. And she remembers clear as day like his feet were on different steps, his hand, he was holding the railing, and he looked right at her, and then they disappeared. Oh my God, so, wow. Because that's one of those where you're like, oh, he was surprised as she was almost, like, and dis... Yeah, like he was like, oh, I gotta get out of here. Yeah, it makes me question, like,

is he intentionally showing himself because he didn't think she would be there? I don't know, it's just so weird to think about. Yeah, it's like, or did you want her to find you? Yeah, is that on purpose? It makes you think around every corner you're not at, are they just having a party hoping you don't see them? And they usually disappear right before you look?

Yeah, well eventually, and keep in mind, they bought this place to build it, but they were ahead of their time in terms of weird living, and they lived on like ahead of their time in terms of like weird living. And they lived on the property. They lived cool. They live in the school building while they're restoring it, which like if you had to live in a school house, a big school,

I don't know the answer to this. I don't know where they were staying, but what room would you pick? I like this. I feel like I would probably pick the art room. That's nice. I feel like when I go into an art room at a school, and we've been doing some preschool tours and stuff, there's something about an art room

that just feels very comforting to me. And I think it's just like, I don't know, the smell of paint and paper and just crafting and glue. Maybe it's just like I get high off the fumes, I don't know. Well, first of all, I think all of us have that memory of like shitty children's paint, but then. Yeah, but it's something about it is just very comforting to me, I don't know.

I think it's the room that encourages the most creativity and like, Yeah. Freeness. It feels safer than to me than like a math classroom. Can you imagine? No, I would be traumatized. Like I'm gonna go make my bedroom the AP US government. Yeah, forget it. No, I would be traumatized. I'm going to go make my bedroom the AP US government. Yeah, forget it.

This is where I failed my final exam. Ah, time to sleep. Yeah. What did where would you sleep? Like the gym feels like cool for a minute and then it's too scary and loud. And like, yeah, and too big. Like too big, too big. I don't know. I like to think I'd pick like a little tiny nook and cranny. Like in my high school, there was a room called the piano room.

I see like a like a hideaway kind of a hideaway. And after school, when there was like music clubs, like the piano would get used. But other than that, it was just kind of storing a bunch of different pianos. Yeah. And me and my friends, we all took it over and it was our regular hangout gossip space. Yeah. So we had that way. There was also a piano there, weirdly. Yeah. And we also had another room that I could see my I think because I need to feel cozy and like

kind of sensory shut in. We had a room that was literally a Harry Potter closet. They. Can I help you? The Kong just appeared over your shoulder like a haunting and then a paw. I mean, this is like a horror film. Yeah. The way just one paw kind of climbs into the frame. It's kind of like how a little German girl would appear from under a desk.

And her peanut butter treat would just roll. What was I saying? Oh, we had a literal Harry Potter room that we ran out of space at the school. They started making anything a classroom and you literally had to go under the stairs to take a class. Oh cool.

I had like three classes in there. That was really fun. We had a crypts because we had nuns buried under the chapel. And so there were these like tombs. Very cool. But you could only go in there unless you're on a tour or when you're on a tour. And so we weren't allowed down there. But of course, I found my way. Anyway, so I just wanted to know what your what room you would pick them. I would sleep in the tomb, the catacombs. That's actually yeah That, and you would wake up your alarm sound would go, da da da, da da da da da.

No, it would go like, I'll praise you. How do you solve a problem like Maria? Help. So, anyway, eventually they're living in this place and a woman knocks on their door and she's a psychic and her name is Jackie. And Jackie asks if she can come in, not to be like creepy or anything, but she was like,

I was driving by and every time I drive by there happens to be a little girl in your window and she's waiting at me. And I'm just here to say hi. She Yeah, I don't think she knew the history originally of the building, because for her to, I mean, she must have, it looks like a fucking school, so I guess, me too. I'm not even doing anything with my thumb right now. Why is it, I mean, it's correct, thumbs down indeed, but like I didn't even move my hands,

I even in the fucking picture. Well, she's like, there's this little girl here and I gotta go do something. I gotta help her see the light and let her be gone. I gotta go do something. I gotta help her see the light and let her be gone. I gotta go do something. Okay. So she offers to look around and Nancy and her sister show her the house.

And when they get to one room, Jackie the psychic goes in and she's like, oh, the little girl's here. I, and then does this whole like, oh, do you see the light? You need to go towards the light. And as she's having this conversation, Nancy's sister sees a little girl skipping down the hallway. She's like, oh, do you see the light? You need to go towards the light. And as she's having this conversation, Nancy's sister sees a little girl

skipping down the hallway. She's like, this light? And they later played back a recorder that they were using at the same moment. And right when Nancy's sister saw a girl skipping down the hall, you can hear a little girl giggling. Oh no.

So Jackie tells Nancy that she needs to start let Jackie the psychic tells the homeowner Nancy you should start letting people come and do investigations and look around and like really lean into this especially if you're trying to restore this place it could be really good money. So that's how Nancy and her husband started saving up for restorations they were charging for tours and all that and keep in mind they live in the. So during investigations that people are charging for, they would just hunker down in their bedroom and just stay quiet. Oh, so they'd be like upstairs, like, Oh, just please don't make them too mad. We're

trying to sleep up here. Yes. So one paranormal investigator who was really connected to the house, I think he was a tour guide there for a second to his name name was JD and he really wanted to help restore the building and came up with this idea for like leaning into like the school theme and created like a spooky prom idea. Oh, that's fun. And so they used to host spooky themed proms during this when it was Nancy's house, they ended up selling a fun fact. But during this era, they have this prom event where it starts as a prom. And when midnight hits, it becomes an overnight lockdown and investigating.

Okay, that is my dream life. That is my dream. So a lot of people have investigated here. A lot of people have toured here. Some of my favorite people that have been here I wanted to give a shout out to one of them was Stephen Stephen Lachance who was the main character of the story I covered in episode 325. He was the Union Screaming House. The house just kept screaming. Oh my god. Why do I remember that name? It's like it, I remember it. It was a creepy one. Another one is Dakota of Zack Bagans fame. Oh I remember that guy. Yeah. Her previous Zack Bagans fame. I think they have beef with each other now. And then this is a random one, but it was all. Did you see beef with Zach Bagan's?

Did you see Nick Groff's April Fool's post? No. He posted like, I'm returning to Ghost Adventures and I'm bringing my wife with me. And everyone was like, evil. Evil. I thought it was so funny. I was like, oh, that's a good prank. Pretend your beef with Zach is over. Just kidding. I still fucking hate him.

It's actually hilarious, given like the fact that Zach is just trying to be like, like have a normal fucking life right now with all the air and stuff going on. Yeah, it was kind of rough, although not really, because Zach also posted. Do you see he and Holly broke up, I guess? Or maybe that was also a long time ago. Yeah, they broke up again It's what reddit told me that broke up again But again, but then he posted like she said yes, and it was some random girl and everyone freaked the fuck out But it was April Fool's. Oh shit. Really he said like she said yes and like posted a girl with a ring

So he is in a weird time with Aaron, he still wanted to do a funny joke about how he's getting married. I was gonna say, is everyone just trying to like... Is everyone just pretending like... Direct, redirect the Aaron drama somewhere else? Like to, yeah. It feels kind of like too soon to joke about getting married, but you know, what do I know? What do you know?

Not much. Especially when like, I think she, I don't know how they ended. I would love if I could sit down with her for 30 minutes. I wouldn't even ask a single thing. You know, yeah. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't ask her a single thing about Hugh Hefner. I would ask her a million things about Zach Bagans. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, certainly.

That would be the the juice. I mean, the tea. God help. So one of the other people that I thought was really interesting that's come here was Corey Taylor from Slipknot. Who apparently had his own experiences there, but he was written about in every article about it. They were like, and Slipknot's been here. And I'm like, OK, like.

We're probably like the only people who are not in the Venn diagram of like ghost hunter lover, paranormal lovers in middle America, slipknot lovers. It's probably a circle and we're probably the only two people on the outside. I don't know if that's true, but it feels like maybe that's a big crossover. Well, fun fact, slipknot's been there.

And the school even has a Facebook group called like the evidence page where people just post their evidence. A lot of shows have been here, somehow not Ghost Adventures. But my ghost story ghost stalkers, your favorite Kindred spirits has been there. And then you've heard of the YouTuber Sam and Colby, right? Yes, I have. And I've watched some of their ghost stuff. And I'm like, you people are out of your minds. Yeah, so they, we'll get to them in a second, but it's also all over YouTube.

I want you to know that I watched like 20 investigations footage of this place. Like it's everywhere. You just go page after page for this schoolhouse. And people would just put post stuff, okay. I will say, I mentioned this earlier, but Nancy and Jim eventually ended up selling the school. And I will get back to that later. But that's where you need to that's all you

need to know for now. So Nancy and Jim sell the school. So this has to be I think it was 2019 that they sold it, I think. I know 20. No, it was like it was like maybe two years ago. So yeah, it ends up being becoming like just a space that's being used for investigations. Okay. So as for hauntings, one thing that's super creepy about it is it really does look abandoned. There's like the walls are decrepit, but there's like messages all over the chalk boards from investigators. There's homework in the desks, There's coats in the lockers.

The original chairs and decorations are in the school. There's a little German girl under the desk. She's just humming her lullabies, and she wants to be left alone. Leave her alone. She has a sinus infection. Except she's faking it, but it's fine. For the sake of trying to be concise with it, because I otherwise, I mean, I watch so much footage I could give

you examples of each of these but I'm just gonna say them quick. People hear that's that's one category people here at the schoolhouse when they're busking walking through the rooms near you above you and below you just footsteps everywhere. People hear conversations in off rooms they hear music playing they've heard old radio broadcasts. Oh, I love that. That's cool And they've even gone into rooms And then found an old radio in there that was unplugged Isn't that crazy? That's cool. And it's like what is that radio reminds you a brave little toaster, you know He's like I just want one last hurrah. That's right. He's just

One more cigar and cigar and one more yeah um people hear laughing they hear heavy breathing they hear whispering whistling intelligent taps and knocks that's a huge one here it's like oh can you knock four times and then it does slamming doors slamming lockers, basketballs from the gym bouncing. People hear- All of those in a dark building that used to be a school is so scary. And shoes squeaking in the gym. Like that's when you asked earlier, where would you sleep? Like my first thought of the gym was like that squeaky sound

and not knowing where it's coming from. Like that would scare the absolute shit out of me. People hear the bell ringing. Terrifying. That's cool. That's so cool. But I hope it's like a quiet version. Can you imagine if it's dead silent in the middle of the night and then you just hear

whee! Oh, I would just lose my mind. I mean, hopefully it is that loud because that would make really good content for somebody like Jack and Colby. Yeah. People hear shuffling, dragging, hissing in one of the bathrooms.

That's just that girl that everybody had in their class who pretended to be like an animal. Like a snake, yeah. A snake or a wolf or something, yeah. Oh, wolf girl, of course. Yeah, wolf girl. Here's my least favorite one, is that you can hear children singing like choir music.

Ah, that's bad. Hot crossbars. The fucking recorder just wrong notes over and over again. I mean, talk about torture chamber. So that's what people hear. That's at least the majority of what people hear. People see, that's a whole other category, a kid walking through the gym.

No thanks. Nope. They also see another kid walking out of a closet in room 206. 206 or 205, I forget which one, it's called Mrs. Martin's room. Whoa. And it's one of the most haunted rooms.

She's like- What did she do? Lock them in the closet? This place sounds scary. Apparently if you say her name in there, a bunch of machines will go off. So it's like Bloody Mary, but Mrs. Martin. Imagine being a teacher and you're alive and you barely get any fucking money.

Yeah, and any respect and any, yeah. Like the tip of the iceberg is you don't get enough of anything you deserve. And then imagine dying and a hundred years later, you're still teaching there. Except you're just being. But no money. Right, and you don't get any say. Everybody's just bothering you constantly.

And even worse than children not appreciating what you do, now it's just a bunch of grown men screaming at you. Now it's just the guy from Slipknot. You understand. What did you do to deserve this? What did you do to deserve this? Poor Miss Martin, someone give her her flowers. So another thing that people see

is a nine foot tall shadow figure, a man walking through the halls. I don't think so. People see shadow figures leaving the principal's office, including one very notorious shadow figure known as the principal, and he is a very foreboding character. Ew, but he's not the nine foot tall one is he? Because that's even worse.

Like I don't think so. I don't know. I was gonna say it's worse, but maybe it's not worse. Maybe it's worse to have a nine foot shadow and the principal. Yeah, well apparently a lot of people see or hear the principal when they're acting up. But it's like he's still clocking like behavior and he's a disciplinarian. There are other shadow figures that peek around corners at you of all heights, if there's kids and adults.

There are shadow figures that get right up in your face. People have said that they just turn and look to their left and there's just a face in their face. People have literally seen locker doors swinging, like moving by themselves. The janitor has seen the gym lights turn on by themselves even after he just turned them off. And then I have two clips I want to show you

because I think both of them are really cool. So I'm going to send you one first. Let me go find where I left this. They're both very quick. Otherwise, I would not do this to you. So do it. do this to you. So- Oh, do it. I wanna watch.

Here's the first one. A lot of people say that because it was a gym, like a lot of balls roll around and stuff. So one common thing that investigators have started doing is leaving some sort of like kick ball or soccer ball or whatever on a tripod and then saying like, can you knock the tripod over so the ball will roll off

that's kind of fun so here's a video of that that's crazy that's Isn't that crazy? Yeah. OK, so we will play that for people, obviously. But for those who are not watching YouTube or able to get to a computer, someone literally says, can you knock the ball over? And the ball immediately falls over.

Like within a second, yeah. Yeah. So here is the other one I'm going to show you. And go to the 33 minute mark. I'll tell you beforehand, this is a group called Paranormal Quest on YouTube. And they were hanging out in the gym. They literally they're just like rolling around, playing with the ball or talking about basketball. And then they get an EVP saying, do you want to play?

Whoa. And then this is sorry. No, go ahead. Go ahead. Well, I was just going to ask, is this one we can play the audio in the episode or is this only video? Well, the thing I'm going to show you is visual. Oh, I'm setting you up because I'm just telling you now. Oh, that's just before the clip.

OK, got it. Leading up to this clip, they got an EVP of someone saying, do you want to play? And I will say after this clip, they start bouncing the basketball and they got an EVP saying, share it, like share the ball with us. Pass, pass the ball. Pass the basketball now. Not to me, though, because I don't know how to play. This is go to the 33 minute mark and they're in the gym.

Here, I'll tell you what. I'll roll it to you and then you can push it back. Now push it back? Did you see that? Did it move? It moved. The camera was pointed right at it, man. It totally just moved.

Dude. Isn't that weird? So for those who didn't get to see- That's freaky. For the people who didn't see it, they literally, it's a basketball just sitting still on the gym floor and they say, can you roll it? And it immediately starts rolling by itself. It kind of like wobbles though.

And it's almost like it doesn't even roll. Like it doesn't go anywhere. It just like starts to wobble, which almost freaks me out more because it's like, I wonder if it just can't get the strength to do that or if it's just like. Oh, what I thought was that it's able to hold it and like roll it around and like not. Oh, maybe that.

And keep it from moving. It just looked like less of a, like it looked like, I don't know, like if I were a ghost, I think it would be more impressive to like kick something or like, you know. Like kick it into your face or some shit. Yeah, do something dramatic. Or like sink a fucking three pointer, are you kidding me? But like the way that it just kind of wiggles, to like kick something or like, you know, like kick it into your face or some shit or like

three pointer. Are you kidding me? Like the way that it just kind of wiggles. It's almost like maybe. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. But anyway, so I thought those were two really cool visual ones. And what people have also experienced here is they've had doors slam right into them. They've had things thrown at them. They've had equipment thrown through the building. They can smell cigarettes, which since it was the 20s, I like to think it's the kids that were smoking. They have a bathroom now, so they know they can sit in the stall and smoke a cigarette.

Yeah. A bunch of machines constantly are responding intelligently. I mean, every machine that you and I have ever used has worked here. The flashlight game where it turns on and off intelligently has happened. Like literally they'll say on the count of five and on five the flashlight will turn on.

Yeah, it feels very, in both of these clips too, like very timely, like very, very quick to respond. Maybe they're just a very good students, you know, like very, Oh yeah. They're like throwing shit across, maybe some of them are throwing shit across the room, some of them are following the rules, you know.

I don't know. There's a little bit of everyone for everyone. Someone's smoking a cigarette in the bathroom. Kids of all kinds. There's been many successful Estes methods here. People have also felt hands on their back. Not just like someone was pushing you, but have just felt hands on their back.

People have been shoved. people have been grabbed and scratched. One guy had his head pushed into the coat hooks. Oh, God. Another one was shoved into a wall. Another one was pushed during a Ouija board session while the board was spelling, get out. Ew! Um, machines will glitch and turn themselves off

or they'll refuse to do their job. They'll claim there's an error, even though the machine shouldn't be malfunctioning. And then it works totally fine once you've left. There's a tall shadow man, not the nine foot one, but there's another one. Great. And apparently he's around like six feet because there was a caretaker at one point living here who worked for Nancy and Jim. And he described the tall shadow man. He was like, he's tall.

He's about my build. He respects you if you respect him. Oh, and a lot of people have come through here and said that the shadow man is actually future me when I die still watching over the building. What the fuck? What the, whoa, whoa, whoa. Which is wow, because you know that's my theory about ghosts.

That is literally, you've said this before, like to the word. And he did say, he was like, I don't know if it's me though, because I have seen him with my own eyes and he has red eyes. And also whenever I look at him, I lose my hearing in the moment.

And also he has flown straight up into the ceiling and then shape shifted into an old man with jowls and then disappeared. And then he- You know, what do I know? It could be me. I mean, holy shit. And then he said, but then again, I can see myself messing with myself.

Oops, this guy, he's turning this into, he needs to stop because it feels like he's getting too meta with it, and it's gonna start like circling in on itself. He knows that future him is going to prank him, but now... Oh, my God, it's mind-boggling. Now it's like, who came first, chicken or the egg? You're messing with the space-time continuum, and of course he is,

because I can tell just by the way he talks that this is exactly who it is. No, I've never, that's amazing. That's really incredible. My dream is to mess with the space time continuum. If I die, please know that's where I'm going. Trust me, I'm already bracing myself. Even if the door is locked and that's like an employee's only space

of the other worlds, I'm cracking in. Please, yeah, as if that's ever stopped you. I'll just go to like a school house where I know you'll be like- An abandoned school, so I would be there. Barging around, yeah. Not knowing how to kick a basketball or, I don't know. You know what it reminded me of?

The ball though, sorry, I just thought of it. I think maybe that's why it stuck in my head is, like yesterday I took Leona to soccer class. I say that loosely, but I took her to soccer and- I like how it's soccer class and not like soccer practice. Soccer, okay, that's my fault. I don't know what it's called. Soccer practice, there you go.

But there is no game, there's no team. So it's sort of like, maybe it is just a class, I don't know. But they are doing, they're learning control where you put your foot on the ball. And because they're so little, it's like hard. So they're always kind of have one foot on the soccer ball and they're kind of wobbling. And I feel like that's how that ball moved.

That's such a good point. It looks like a little kid just learning. Yeah, like trying to use it or trying to pick it up. I don't know. That's just what made me think. Wow. Sorry, total side note. That was actually past made me think. Wow. Total side note. That was actually past. That's me playing.

That was actually that was future Leona when she's a ghost. Telling us, yeah, teaching us how to play. 100 percent. Teaching us control. Yeah. I isn't it wild that in a world of a space time continuum being altered and like our our future ghosts are already washing out for us that you and Leona are already ghosts laughing together while watching the two of you now.

It really is a comfort, I think. I think so. Some people find it really scary. I find it cool and like kind of comforting. I think it's dope. Yeah, it's dope. I agree. Okay, so some of the EVPs people have heard,

they've heard kids singing, people have heard many voices talking to them. When asked to stay or leave, they've gotten an EVP saying leave. That's the thing that poor Em, I get so ticked off when we're doing an investigation, Em's like, do you want us to leave? And we've been there an hour and I'm like,

what in the fuck? We say, oh, we'll respect you. And then we walk in and we're like, do you want us to leave? And it's like, yes. We're like, too bad. I'm like, that feels like- The most Zach Bagans thing I could do. I know, like you can't ask that

because if they say leave, then what? Now we're in a really awkward position here. Whoopsies. Unless we're trying to rile them up, which again, yeah, it does work, I guess, for that. When people have pointed at the basketball hoop and they've gone, what is that? An EVP has said, score. That's cool.

When using new equipment and saying like, oh, this is a new piece we haven't used before, an EVP will say, or an EVP has said, it's technology. It's the future. With like a little. The race, reading rainbow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. One guy said he had the chills and then there was an EVP that said behind you.

Eww. When they asked what do you do here, they got an EVP saying read. Aww. Smoke cigarettes, read a book. Yeah. When people have asked why are you still here, they've gotten an EVP work to do. Oh, which I love.

That's the most type A ghost I've ever seen. It's like, I still have to finish my pop quiz, actually. And it's like, you're in eighth grade. Like, go home and be a child. You'll be in college someday and then you can focus on your homework. When one person was saying, like, I think it used to be K through 12. They said, I think it used to be K through 12, they said, I think it used to be K through and then they got an EVP saying 12. Oh, when one when one woman went into the bathroom,

they got an EVP of a little girl saying she's in the bathroom. Oh, that feels like you're trapped in there now. Sorry. And then they've got an EVP of someone saying, fuck you, of course. And when asked, OK, so here's let me see if I can find this clip, because this is the last clip I have for you. They found a chair facing a wall. One of one of the investigative teams, a little dunce chair. Well, so then they said,

oh, did you ever get in trouble and you had to like sit in this chair? And then they got an EVP of a voicing or worse. Oh, gosh. Um, and that's you can click that and it's 420, 420. Okay, okay, okay. Here we go. That's the clearest EVP that we've ever got out of this place, the or worse. Anybody get in trouble in here and have to face the wall, get put on timeout. Have to face the wall, get put on timeout. Oh, okay, my stomach just twisted up. Like that, that got me.

Orwurs got me. Isn't that weird? It's very clear. It's really freaky. It's very, very clear. Or worse, and it's like clearly a child. Or worse? Yeah.

Oh! So one of the reasons that this kid might have said or worse is because there is a rumor that the principal, who's known to be a very foreboding character, was abusing the kids here. Oh no. It's also thought that maybe it was the principal and or the janitor.

And it said that if it was happening, it happened in either the storage closet or the principal's office, hence janitor or the principal. Are we talking sexual abuse? I think so. They didn't say, they just said abuse. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. It's thought that this would happen

in either the storage closet or the principal's office because those are now the two most active, dark, and creepy rooms that are often said to be portals, of course. Oh, God. In the storage room, people feel a lot of rage. They get anxiety attacks and they cry for no reason. And in the principal's office,

people most often see a shadow man there and they feel like they're in trouble. Ooh. And Nancy... That's gotta be a rough feeling to feel as a grownup. Like, I feel like I'm in trouble. That's gotta be like such an unsettling feeling. And Nancy has even been quoted saying about the principal, I don't think he hesitates to be aggressive.

Ooh! Yeah. No, thank you. No thanks. I don't think he hesitates to be aggressive. Ooh. Yeah, no thank you. No thanks. Another room with the same energy and has also been said to maybe be a portal is the boiler room where people have actually been physically attacked by something.

Nothing good happens in the boiler room as far as I'm concerned. It's next to the gym, which is why the gym is also said to be so active. But in the boiler room, people have been scratched, like, pushed, shoved, they hear like the meaner EVPs, things like that. So before we go, I wanted to tell you about the three episodes I watched on this. They're all, I think, pretty quick. But there's a show called Ghost Talkers, and one of the investigators, his name is Chad.

And so he said, my name's Chad, what's yours? And then an EVP said, God damn it, Chad, which I loved. It was you and me in the future. Yes. Oh, not a Chad. Chad was also in the auditorium and he plays a recorder for them as like a show. I see, I knew that would be a hit.

And he gets intelligent responses from that. He does a play on the stage and when he says, let's play together, then he hears footsteps outside. They have freezing cold blasts, intelligent tapping when asked. They see an apparition by the principal's office that apparently looked like two kids standing on top of each other. Oh, I hate that. What if that's the nine foot shadow figure?

It's just two kids in a trench coat. Maybe. He tried to ignore it, but I guess that same figure kept showing up throughout the night. And they even said, this is like the creepiest part of that show, Ghost Talkers, is that what it was? Yeah. Is that he kept trying to do digital recorder EVP sessions and he realized that nothing was coming through Including his own voice wasn't being recorded. Oh

No, so he tries to do an EVP session and the digital recorder doesn't pick up on anything Including his own voice and then when he leaves the building he tries outside of the building and his voice is recording Yeah, I don't like that. I Obviously have to mention Kindred Spirits. Yeah, because I know how much you love them. I guess during this, they were saying like, Oh, lately, there's been a darker entity around and we can't figure out what it is. The caretaker was saying like, there's this new shadow figure,

but he's so big that he quote is hunched over because the ceiling is too low. I I think I vaguely remember this episode but now I really want to go re-watch it because that's fucking creepy. He says do you want to, they ask do you want to step out and let us see you then they hear footsteps. They ask about the new shadow figure and then they hear their equipment get thrown around like something's mad at them. So when they say, do you not want to talk about that? They get an EVP that says no. They do a very eerie estus method where after taking those context clues and researching the area, they realized that there's this guy Terry who was murdered not too far from the school and it was like the only unsolved crime in the area. Oh, so they think maybe his energy super aggressive

after being murdered. Ooh, but they have an EVP session right after that and they ask, is there someone here you don't wanna talk in front of or someone you don't trust? And they get an EVP that says Terry. Oh, ugh. Then they bring in your man of the day. Jack Kirby!

I knew he was in this episode. I remember, I remember so vividly. But isn't he the best? He's the best. He's the best. As soon as he walks in, he goes, you've got a war going on in this building. Yes. And then he has his little scarf. And you're like, oh my god, shit's about to go down. He didn't pick up on anything specific, except he heard the words get the fuck out in his head. Cool. And he's when they start explaining

Terry to him. He actually interrupts them and looks freaked out. And he's like, is he the one showing himself as huge, like big and threatening, like overpoweringly huge? Because, and then as he's saying that to like show what he's talking about, Chip Coffee stands up and hunches over. Like, no, like they showed, oh, forget it. See, this is what I mean.

Then they end up doing this Estus method, which I don't even know if you want me to get into that. It's very creepy. Very creepy. I mean, listen, then, yeah, go for it. I don't want to, let's don't let me hold you back. So they do an Estes method where actually Chip coffee is part of the Estes method. Ooh, fun.

And they have the woman Amy, and then they have Chip separately doing an Estes Method in the same room. Okay. And then Adam is the one asking them questions. And it sounds like- Oh yeah, okay, I see what you're saying. It sounds like Amy is talking to, is talking to Terry,

and then Chip Coffee's talking to the kids. Amy's talking to Terry. Oh, okay. I got it. Oh weird. Okay creepy so They these are the things that they hear with you Hello. Good evening when they say tell me your name. He says move over When Adam asked do you know that you're affecting other spirits here? Then they both hear laughing, and they ask this method. When they say, try to, can you stop doing that

and stop affecting people? They hear, I don't want to, we don't want to. Get out of here. He's coming, it's him, it's true, hide. Oh, it's true, hide. When they say leave Amy, when Adam says leave Amy alone, they hear get bent. And then he says, I'm getting stronger.

I like it here. Then he hears laughter. You're the problem, go away. I mean, it's just very, very creepy. So aggressive, very aggressive. So please go watch that. I mean, I'm not doing it. I don't want to just, it'll take me forever to tell the whole thing, but it's very terrifying

It's worth a watch even just to see Chip like swoop in because really he is he is a just a gem I still have my coffee mug that someone mailed me and I I love to drink out of that thing my chip coffee mug Okay Well, the last thing I have to say is that Sam and Colby went here. For those who don't know, Sam and Colby are like these huge YouTuber, TikTok investigator influencers. I feel like they're the next generation Zach Bagans.

They're like Gen Zers, right? Yeah. They're like that audience at least. Yeah, they're definitely not, I mean, they're not my audience. Like I've heard about them a million times, but this episode was the first one of those I've watched because I just- I've watched about them a million times, but this episode was the first one of theirs I've watched, because I just... I've watched one for a place that you and I investigated. Okay.

And I will tell you after, and it was ridiculous, and they faked a bunch of shit. It's very, I mean, they're certainly Gen Z, TikTok influencers, and I will say, they have the same business acumen as Zach Bagan, so I'm not, like, harshing their vibe there. Oh, they're doing things right. No, they're I mean, they have millions and millions of followers.

Got a good formula going. Yeah, but it's definitely not like I think I'm a little too old for their audience. Yeah, me too. So for me, they like if anyone knows I'm talking about on TikTok, like how there's like those people who start videos and they're just like screaming information at you. It's like, why are you so fucking loud? Like back up.

Like it's, they kind of have that vibe for me. Yeah, they're really, really heightened energy wise. And everything's like, whoa, bro. I mean, it's very Zach Baggins, but like totally different. Yeah, I totally know what you mean now. Yeah. But anyway, so they have a YouTube show where they go ghost hunting.

And there are so many videos on their own account about this school. But there are so many YouTube accounts that like, I think, want to be Sam and Colby that I've also been here that have and they're all there. They all felt like the same video and all of them were like an hour and a half long video. Some of them were even calling themselves like for our schoolhouse, the movie. And I'm like, I'm not going to sit here and watch. The movie. I'm not going to sit here and watch.

I'm not going to sit here and watch the movie of nine different grown Gen Z boys that I don't care about. 20 year old, 19 year old kids. At some point I could not get through a lot of them. I did watch like 20 videos, but I watched the ones that weren't an hour and a half long. Listen, that's a lot. That sounds like a lot. Sam and Colby alone. I only watched one of their videos on this,

which I found out was the first of a three part series. She's a piece. And each of them were at minimum an hour long. She's a piece. I was like, I'm not doing it. I'm sorry. I just and also not only that, but again, they're not my vibe. And so I did not wanna watch, I think it was a total of like three, four, five hours

of Gen Z boys screaming at nothing. They're just screaming, oh my God. It's like, yeah, it's just, you need a certain level of youthful bandwidth that we don't have anymore. I'm so sorry. I don't have it. So to bring it all back, the reason why they made this trilogy,

this like four hour long saga of them going to the for our school house is because a la many Zach Bagans, they bought the school from Nancy and Jen. No, they didn't. For $260,000. You are kidding with me right now. And so to promote their big purchase, they filmed three videos of their-

You are kidding. They had a week long lockdown investigation as soon as they bought it. Like they got the keys and locked down that night and stayed for a whole week. And- It's like, why do we joke about doing stuff like that instead of doing it? It makes me mad at me.

It makes me mad at us. Like, why are we doing fun stuff like that? What house should we buy? One in Galena. Oh, okay. Yeah, it does have to be haunted either. Let's just go with it. Well, it'll be haunted.

We'll make sure. We'll walk around until we find one that's haunted. Sure. We wouldn't buy a house that wasn't haunted together. There's no way. I think a lot of people were talking about us buying the conjuring house a while ago. Remember that? I remember that, yeah. And I feel like that would't haunted together. There's no way. I think a lot of people were talking about us buying the conjuring house a while ago. Remember that?

I remember that. Yeah. And, and I feel like that would have worked too. It's just, I feel more, it's too like, it's too mainstream for me, you know? I want something like really random with like really random ghosts, like an old school house or something. Really? Because I think financially it's a really smart move of like, talk about supplemental income is like just charge people towards investigations on an abandoned house.

Yeah, I know. But we could do that. And also, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Leave your thoughts in the comments. What venture should we get into next? Yeah. Thumbs up, like and subscribe. Yeah. So to promote their big purchase, they like, they did this whole, we're going to film every single second of a whole week. Yeah. And they filmed three videos.

They put out a full trilogy and that, my friend, was called Hell Week. Oh, I just came from Hell Week. Oh, my God. It's a fucking Colby. And what are they called? Sam and Colby. OK, OK, I get it. So I already said this, but I only watched the first of the three videos. And I'm just going to let you I was going to watch all three.

I was going to just do it. But I want you to know what I endured in the first one. And I don't mean that to sound. Well, you tell me how you feel. I already I already know how I feel because I've watched their videos on other places we've been to and gone, you are making this up. It's just so testosterone. Like it's just not, and it's like young testosterone. It's like, like their frontal lobes. I feel like,

I feel like they could not fully define, you know, quite a lot about things. I don't know. They just, I don't know. I feel like we're in an older place. We're in a quieter place. It's not for me. And I just really can't stand testosterone. I really flee from it.

So I did watch the first one, but immediately they, I could see where they were going. I get the, like the, the business mindset of like they brought in a bunch of spooky influencers to collaborate with and make a big deal out of it. I totally get that. One of the people they brought on was, I guess, a psychic or she was a practitioner in some way. And she said, which I think was a good idea, she said, oh, well, since you're the new owners and you might be coming in a little hot because these ghosts have been here for 100 years

before you, maybe you should show some respect to the ghosts by doing some sort of like, you know, giving a moment of gratitude to them and like telling them that you're going to love the property the right way. Offers that they do like some sort of peace treaty ritual at a sacred tree, at a sacred tree. And I'm like, I didn't hear anything about a sacred tree. A sacred tree. OK, all right, I didn't hear anything about a sacred tree anywhere else. Sacred tree, okay, all right. That's where, I don't know,

I'm gonna assume that this person knew what they were talking about, but I didn't hear about that anywhere else. So it felt kind of weird. Did they go to a sacred tree? There was a sacred tree like on the property. So, but did they go to it, like film it and stuff? So they filmed this like ritual that they did

where they like burned a bunch of tobacco and said, like, I hope that you know that we're going to take care of the property. And I was like, it felt icky despite maybe good intentions. And I was like, OK, like maybe they're trying and they've got the right spirit. But then the literal next scene is. Something really that just felt kind of like the antithesis of the comp. So they call this whole week event Hell Week because they decided to do this bit where they were going to give each other challenges that they had to do throughout the week while

investigating and staying overnight here. Right. Of course. Sure. So during the surprise challenges they gave themselves on the property, Sam dared Colby to go investigate the boiler room where everyone gets touched on his own hogtied with rope. What the fuck? So he could be whatever, like prey, whatever. I don't know. And then Colby dared Sam to go dig his own grave in the ground and what?

And do an Estes method in there, I guess, to be closer his own grave in the ground and do an Estes method in there. I guess to be closer to the bodies in the graveyard. I don't know. But this is a quote. This is a quote. This is a quote from Colby. If the spirits don't want to come out of the ground and talk to us, then Sam can go in the ground to talk to them.

No, come on. So it just right, literally the scene right after they're doing a ritual at a sacred sacred radar. Ping, ping, ping. There's somebody following in my footsteps. There's a reason people make fun of Zach Bagans and maybe they're like of the Gen Z influencer mindset where it's like all attention is good attention. Yeah. But like it as someone who like actively tries to be respectful.

It's clearly well, it works like clearly people love it, you know, so they're doing it. They're doing what's working, I guess. Anyway, Zach Bagan's in the making and that's why I could only watch one of the three. So there you go, that's the Farrar schoolhouse. Wow. Fucking finally.

What a fucking tail and a half, man. That is, I don't know that we've done many haunted schools so that you've covered many haunted schools. I don't think so either. You've done a few schools, so that you've covered many haunted schools. I don't think so either. You've done a few colleges, but I feel like younger schools are not as common. It's hard to find things with enough meat. I mean, that one definitely had a lot of meat,

but it also took a lot of watching a lot of YouTube. It sounds pretty traumatizing of an experience. Some of it was. So anyway, thank you for putting through that with me, and also sidebar, thank you for dealing with me and the dog stuff. I'm having a great time with your dog. Okay, great. Hey, are you like me and you've tried literally everything under the sun to try and just get like a little peace of mind or just like stability for your soul?

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So Christine is at her best and worst. No, she's at her best. I'm feeling good, you know? She's feeling all daisy-wazy. I don't know what the right word is, but yeah, you seem good. I like hanging out with you when you're using cornbread. Thank you. Because I'm a better person and a better friend.

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Christine, but Jordan has left for maternity leave. So I need me a filler for the next couple of months. A filler? Well, let me tell you what. We are very proud to call Rula a new sponsor of ours. Rula is on a mission to make high quality mental health care from a licensed professional easy and affordable for everyone. Rula has got you covered. They take most major insurance plans and the average copay is only $15 per session. You can now get the quality care you need when you need it at a price you can afford. They have an expansive community of over 10,000 therapists of 39 different faiths and religions, 80 different specialties and modalities, 47% are black, indigenous or people of color, 97% of people find a provider who fits their unique preferences. So they really want to like

match you with somebody that kind of gets you. So, Em, I know you're looking for a filler, but I don't think that's the right spot. I think, I might be going for, I might actually just have two permanent therapists. Yeah, bye Jordan. Sorry, you know. Thousands of trusted Rula to support them on their journey toward improved mental health and overall wellbeing. Head on over to rula.com slash drink to get started today. After you sign up, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them that our show sent you. Go to rula.com slash drink and take the first step toward better mental health today. You deserve quality care from someone who cares. All right, I have a pretty monumental case for you today. This is the story of Amber Hagerman, aka the case that led to the institution of the Amber Alert.

Oh, did you decide to do this because of last week? Yes. Cool. Well, basically, Saoirse and I were like, oh, well, that seems like an easy transition to the next topic. So it was sort of a kind of built in decision. It didn't take, I think, me much brain power, and then it just kind of happened.

So credit to Saoirse for that, I guess. This is the Amber Hagerman story, and it is a doozy. And I'll be honest, I thought I knew the story pretty well, and I didn't. Like, Blanket's statement did not know it as well as I had thought. So we're starting in 1995. Producer Pam Curry is preparing to shoot a documentary for WFFA News in Texas.

And this documentary that she's producing is going to be about a single mother, this is like the concept that they've been, that they've pitched, a single mother receiving support from governmental assistance programs like either SNAP, food stamps, welfare. And according to a later interview, essentially they were looking for someone who, quote, fit the national profile, which was a single mom with two children. And they wanted to do this documentary to kind of show the challenge of living on government subsidy and to show life through a lens that was more empathetic than maybe people were used to seeing folks on welfare, that kind of thing. So they were struggling to find, they had the concept, but they were struggling to find the subject of the documentary

because, I mean, imagine someone being like, hey, you're impoverished and have trouble feeding your family. Do you want us to like film your day to day life and put it on TV? That's a tough thing to ask a person. Yep. Exactly. So it's like really vulnerable spot to be in when you're already in a very vulnerable spot. And so they were struggling to find a subject for this docu-series. And they got to the point where they were about to kind of give up the whole concept. And that's when they were introduced

to a woman named Donna. She was a mother of two in her late 20s, and she was staying in a women's shelter in Arlington, Texas. Okay. So when Donna was a teenager, she went walking around her neighborhood with friends and ran into, who would become Amber's father, Richard.

And he was hanging out in a yard. The two of them started talking. One thing led to another, and at 18 she was pregnant and terrified. But as soon as Amber was born, she fell absolutely in love with her, and four years later her younger son, Ricky, was born. So Amber had a younger brother named Ricky. When the children were young, Ricky, was born. So Amber had a younger brother named Ricky. When the children were young though, their father started drinking excessively and although Donna said he never physically abused the children, he was quote really mean when he was drinking and it was a very dangerous environment. Neighbors often

called the police over fighting in the house and especially with the kids around, you know, it was concerning. And one day the authorities told Donna that if they had to come by again, they would have to take the kids out of the home for their own protection. And I mean, we see this kind of thing in stories still to this day, if not more so.

So Donna didn't hesitate. At first chance, she packed up the kids and left, but she knew Richard was gonna come after her. And so she couldn't go to her own parents' house. She knew that he would go there and find her. So for a few days, they lived in her car. Then they moved into the women's shelter for six weeks. And that's where Donna received assistance, applying to social benefits, securing an apartment

and when the documentarians came by and were introduced to Donna, that's when they were like, hey this might be the perfect match. Donna was a little uncertain about putting her life on display but ultimately she felt like this would be an empowering move and like a way to show other women how to get through this kind of thing. Sure, that makes sense. Yeah. And I thought that was just a really cool way to look at it, that it would help other

people in the same situation, especially if they felt isolated. So Donna and the kids settled into this apartment that the shelter helped them find and they moved in. They had several months before filming for this documentary actually began. And for a while, anytime somebody knocked on the door, they were on edge, right? Because they're thinking, Richard's found us. And he's gonna-

I can't imagine, like on top of that, it's like, ooh, yeah, no, just the stress, just the stress. The stress, like that hyper vigilance that takes so long to go away, you know, if, no, just the stress, just the stress. The stress, like that hyper vigilance that takes so long to go away, you know, if it ever does. And yeah, and so Donna tried to make her kids feel secure financially, but Amber, as she's growing up, she knows they're struggling because Amber's school, for example, has like a $3 skate night

and she can't participate because her mom can't afford it. And I know, and it's tough because her mom's school, for example, has like a $3 skate night and she can't participate because her mom can't afford it. Poor girl. I know. And it's tough because her mom's trying, of course, her hardest to not have this pressure fall on the children, but Amber begins worrying a lot and takes on a lot of this anxiety. But Donna does her best to reassure her kids they would not be homeless again. They would always have food to eat. It's just, it's really fucking sad. That's tough. That's really tough. So Donna

prioritized giving Amber and Ricky a calm home with no yelling, no grief, no like hypervigilance. And as time passed, they finally began to feel like they had settled a little bit and were safer. Now Donna, the mom, she had dropped out of school in seventh grade. She, at this point, now that they were kind of settled, was able to earn her high school equivalency certificate. She enrolled in career training. She was actually now volunteering at the welfare office.

Cool. It's just like such a cool full circle and the fact that these documentarians found just such a, like, I don't found just such a, I don't know, such a cool person to be when they were about to give up. She waltzed in with a great come-up-its story. She was a very good,

she was almost meant for the story, it seems. Yeah, like a single woman, two kids, rags to riches, all that nonsense. So she was really, really coming into her own and it was just a cool thing to see. So filming began that year in August, 1995 and Donna and Pam, the producer, became really close friends because, you know,

they're along for the ride. They're coming to the kids' birthday parties. They're coming to, like, the production team is basically just enmeshed. Yeah, in the family. And Richard, at this point, he starts kind of coming forward and trying to get back in touch with Donna and the kids. He was living with a friend and he had stopped drinking. And at first she said, you know, absolutely not. It took a while, but she finally felt And at first she said, you know, absolutely not. It took a while, but she finally felt truly convinced

that Richard was sober for good. And she cautiously allowed him to be in touch with Amber and Ricky so that they could hopefully at least have somewhat of a positive relationship with their father. And it seemed to go pretty well. So the documentary... Oh, sorry.

I was going to say at this point in the documentary, people are involved too, so maybe she felt like there were other people watching. So nothing has aired. So this is like the 90s. They don't have like day to day filming. It's like they have to produce the series over a long period of time.

So nothing's aired yet. It's just in the process of being filmed. And so for months they're filming with the family, they haven't actually put anything out there, but as this is going on, she feels like Richard is kind of really turning a corner and he really wants to be in the kids' lives. So she cautiously lets him in.

And it kind of starts to go really well. They're following the family around for months with cameras, everything is going smoothly. Honestly, Amber, as a little girl, was like a star. She was like fun-loving, adventurous. She was funny. She loved being on camera. Like she was the perfect kid to be involved in this.

And on Saturdays, the family often spent the day together with Donna's parents, Glenda and... Glenda? Oh, my God, Glenda. But, like... Close enough. So damn close. One vowel off. So on Saturdays, they would go to Glenda and Jimmy Witson's house. Those were their grandparents. What if Jimmy's name is not Jimmy? It's just like, call me

Jimmy Witson. But his name's Tom. Yeah, his name's Tom. Glenda and Tom. Glenda and Jimmy Witson. So on Saturdays, the family often spent the day with Donna's parents. And Amber and Ricky loved to go to their grandparents and then they would ride their bikes on this familiar neighborhood loop around the neighborhood. So January 13th, 1996 was an unusually warm and sunny day, even for Texas, and crowds of people

were out in shorts and t-shirts. It was like a surprise, you know, outside day, especially for the kids. So Donna and the kids spent a few hours at the park and then they arrived at Donna's parents' place at 3 p.m. Amber and Ricky said hi to their grandpa and they took off on their bikes at 3 10 p.m. Okay, 3 10. Donna shouted after them to stay together

and Amber said, okay, mommy, we will. I'm sorry, that just got me. Tough, yeah. So Ricky, who was five now, followed his big sister, who was nine, everywhere. So he just went along with her when she decided to turn instead of their usual path around the block, she wanted to go to a parking lot outside the neighborhood

because they had a ramp where the trucks make deliveries and she liked to ride her bike down the ramp. And I would be, I would absolutely do that too. Big time. Yeah. And it's just right next to the path. It's not, you know, like way off in some forbidden part of the city or something. It's just nearby. And so he's, you know, four years younger.

He just follows his big sister and they go to this parking lot and she wants to ride up and down the ramp where the trucks make deliveries. And so Ricky starts to get nervous. He's like, I don't know if we're allowed to be here. Like he's just a little bit on edge, but Amber says, okay, don't worry.

You head home. I'll come right after you. But when Ricky is just about halfway home, he glances back and does not see Amber behind him. His grandpa sees Ricky approaching and says, where's Amber? And they'd only been gone 10 minutes maximum. They hadn't even been gone 10 whole minutes. And Ricky said, oh, she's at the ramps.

So grandpa just grabs Ricky, they jump in the truck and they drive down the street to pick Amber up. But when they arrived, the parking lot is empty. Like, like the, obviously I don't know the feeling, but I can already assume that there was nothing but like incredible fear driving there. Just like stomach churning. Ten minutes is enough time for a lot to happen. For a lot to happen. And to see a five-year-old coming back and saying, like, I don't know where she went. Like, I feel sick to my stomach.

And there must have been something that they knew was wrong, just the way he said he grabbed the kid and just like booked it there. I mean, maybe it was just like a gut feeling. Just like a... That's the exact vibe I got it just makes my stomach turn and especially for like the mid 90s you know it's not like stranger I mean it is stranger danger kind of has happened but it's not like it is today where you can't let your kids run around the block you know I feel like back then it

wouldn't have been a big deal right to like ride kids run around the block. I feel like back then it wouldn't have been a big deal to ride your bike around the block, but it sounds like something felt wrong. So they jump in the car. Amber is not at the parking lot, but her bike is. It's been left stranded. At that point, you just cry. There's just, there's nothing.

I mean, you hope that she got distracted by something and ran into the woods and said, I'll leave my bike here and come back for it. You hope. Yeah. You hope for the best. It just, it was so shocking that by the time grandpa got there with the car and saw the bike, the police had already been called by somebody who had witnessed the abduction in broad daylight. Oh shit. At 3 18 p.m. 78 year old Jim Keevil called 911

and he lived right there in the neighborhood and his view looked straight at the parking lot. And he said, he I, heard the kids out there. He looked, I mean, they had been there, like what, two, three minutes? They'd barely been there minutes. When he watched a man in a black pickup truck pull Amber off her bike and leave with her.

And he said the driver didn't even speed up his car. He just- So brazenly. Just brazenly. Just knew he could get away with it. Just slowly drove off, which is just so fucking creepy. Yeah, the creep. I I I'm trying to think like maybe the slowness was because he was trying to

like hold her still and was driving carefully. Like, I mean, it doesn't it doesn't matter. But I know just trying to figure out like that. Or it's just like, don't attract suspicion. Right. Like, don't. Yeah. If you peel out of here, someone's gonna go, I heard tires squealing. Especially eight minutes after school lets out or whatever.

Right, right, right. Yeah, so. It's just, it's just, it's just bad. Oh man. So Jim described the abduction. He said that the abductor didn't bother the bike, just grabbed her and took off. She hollered real loud because I could hear it plum over here.

So that's what made me think there was something foul about it. And he called 911 right away. He could only tell police the man was probably white, shorter than six feet tall, average build, but obviously strong enough to grab a nine-year-old who's struggling and put her in his car. So Jim wasn't able to see far enough to see the license plate or the make and model, but he did say it was a black truck. So Donna's father went home with

Ricky and had to tell Donna, tell his own daughter that her daughter had been abducted in broad daylight. I can't imagine. And she said in an interview that she quote, lost it. She ran down the road toward the parking lot screaming Amber's name. Neighbors started gathering outside to see what was going on. Donna went back to her parents and called Richard and just started sobbing and saying someone took Amber. And for a split second, she thought like,

did something happen with Richard? Did he do this? Because he was still pretty angry at Donna for leaving him and they were still experiencing some tension there. But as soon as he arrived and she saw his face, she was like, I knew then there was no way he had anything to do with it because he was so terrified. Like everyone could read him on his face. She also called the documentary

producer Pam Curry, who had become a good friend. And so everybody's kind of reacting to the scene pretty quickly. The police are keeping track of everyone who's coming and going. Donna explains who Pam is, that the crew wasn't just like a random news station, let them through the police tape basically, or let them through the door. And the police thought, well, hey, if they've been around filming, maybe this will give us a lead.

Maybe we can work this to our advantage. Because if it did turn out to be a stranger abduction, then it might have been someone who had seen Amber and become obsessed with her and was stalking her. And then Pam said, well, that theory doesn't work because like I already mentioned, none of the footage had aired yet. So... Shit. Okay. Ironically, they had actually finished editing it that day. Wow. And had slotted it for air the following week. Oh my gosh.

Okay. Well. So that very day they finished editing and then Pam gets a call saying Amber's been abducted. I can't even. Nobody but the film crew had seen any of the film. So essentially the idea that like a stranger saw her on TV and was infatuated with her was off the table. They started searching right away, but it's hard, you know, they didn't really have any

leads except that the parking lot, the black truck drove out of the parking lot west rather than toward the highway, which was east. Okay, so that's interesting. So they do know that. Police pulled over multiple black trucks, looking for Amber with no luck, but of course a black pickup truck in Texas is not in... It's no DeLorean, you know?

No, no, no, no, no. It's no... Yeah, DeLorean. It's no... Yeah, DeLorean. It's no mystery machine, I'll tell you that. Yeah, there you go. It's no mystery machine. Man, I don't even have one good example. It's no hot air balloon, I'll tell you that. Oh, damn. You're getting all the good ones.

It's no unicycle, am I right, guys? You know what? You are right. Thank you. Thank you so much. I usually am. So they're looking for black trucks, but you know, there are diamond dozen down there. So it's not really, it doesn't feel like a very productive search.

In other words, there was a laundromat besides the parking lot, but the wall had no windows. So nobody was able to like see out of it to see the parking lot. So Jim was the only one they could go off of and he hadn't seen the license plate. So authorities set up a command post at Donna's parents' house and satellite vans arrived from dozens of news stations. But unfortunately, news of Amber's kidnapping didn't break until the evening news at 6 p.m., nearly three hours after she had been abducted because there was no such thing as an Amber alert.

Yep. Okay. Wow. So giving the abductor three hours means, you know, could have had plenty of time to find a new location, leave town. If anything could happen in 10 minutes, anything can happen in three hours. That is just a horrifyingly chilling point. Yes, exactly.

So authorities obviously still hope that this publicity would bring in leads. There was no evidence at the scene whatsoever. They didn't even have tire impressions. Wow. They had nothing. So they needed any tips they could get. And Pam's team, who had been filming, they did give all the unaired footage to police

to give investigators something to look at and try and see if they could figure anything out. Also, sorry, I was going to say the 78-year-old who called in 911, do we know how far away he was? Like from... So he was, I don't know technically, I do know he was, I believe living in an apartment complex on several floors up, I assume. Okay. So he was kind of far. I think he was kind of far. He was also elderly.

I don't think he could have seen it. Sure. Yeah. From where he was. He's just like a black truck. Yeah. He just saw a black truck. Um, and I think it just happened so fast too. And so like just calmly, like brazenly that it was almost, yeah, yeah. But, um, it's, it's too bad. I mean, thank God somebody saw it, but it's like, you wish one more person would have looked out the window at the right time. You know what I mean? It's just saw it, but it's like you wish one more person would have looked out the window at the right time. You know what I mean?

It's just, it's always so hard. So in the coverage of her abduction, they also were able to use the documentary footage because the family gave it to the news media and said, if this helps get Amber's story out, then we want you to use it. So on the news, they were able to use footage of Amber blowing out birthday candles,

like playing with friends, getting tucked into bed. And so this, like, for the public was, like, very eye-opening. It was like the amount of people who went to vigils, who put up flyers, like, they leapt into action because they were able to watch this footage of this little girl going about her day-to-day life because it had all been on film. Callers overwhelmed investigators with tips.

Arlington was covered in pink bows in Amber's name. They had them tied around trees. It was a huge, huge deal. And she became like a very, very important person in everyone's household. So things were tense between Richard and Donna because Richard learned that in the unaired documentary, she had accused him of abuse and he denied any abuse. And so there was definitely increased tension. However,

because they both wanted Amber back, they repeatedly went on the news together. They were able to work side by side well enough to put on a good front and go on air and just plead for Amber's safe return. Donna told the abductor to just drop Amber somewhere safe. She said, quote, she's smart. She can find her way home. Just let her go. God, that's so sad. It's just horrible.

It's horrible. Richard, for what it's worth, was officially ruled out as a suspect. So it's not just that he looked totally stricken, but he actually was officially ruled out when surveillance footage showed him basically at a storage place that he was at that he had already given as his alibi. So basically his alibi was good.

So likewise, close family friend Mike Thompson, who owned a black truck and who lived with Richard at the time, was also cleared because they had the data from when he was driving his work truck, his delivery truck, and he was miles away from where Amber was taken. So of course, this is good. They're ruling out people like her own father, but also it's just like setting them back. They just don't have anywhere else to go. So they take helicopters, train sent dogs, volunteer forces, they're all searching for Amber. Donna stayed at her parents house in case Amber came home. Yeah, yeah. And Pam said Donna couldn't eat or

sleep, just could barely function. So as investigators followed up with everyone in the family's inner and outer circles, they started to realize that this probably was just an opportunistic stranger kidnapping, which is really not that common in comparison to abductions by family members. It's just so uncommon. And I think with the drama in the family and the abuse allegations, like you'd think, oh, somebody in the family might have something to do with it. And then to find out like, nope, this was just a crime of opportunity. So that meant she was also, unfortunately,

statistically at much greater risk of harm. Because at the time of Amber's abduction, the Washington State Attorney General's Office was conducting a study on missing children homicide cases. And in 1997, the publication stated that in 76% of the study abduction cases, which resulted in murder, the child was dead within three hours of the abduction. That's even worse than I thought.

I thought that the number was like, well, I guess they always say like, you know, within the first 24 hours is when you hope to find a kid. So in my mind, it was you have 24 hours, not you have fucking three, which is exactly how much she had before the thing even aired. Before it aired. And I will say in 88.5% of the cases, the child is dead within 24 hours.

So like, okay,, 89% rounding up, 89% of children who are murdered by their kidnapper or by their abductor are dead within 24 hours. 76% within three hours. So they're both shocking statistics and it's like, That's a bad number. It's a very, very bad number. And like you

said, three hours later, they hadn't even aired to the public yet. People hadn't even seen the footage of her as a little girl and gotten, you know, involved. So the whole city was just completely shaken. The residential area where Amber was kidnapped was like a really established community. There were like families that had lived there for generations. People generally were pretty friendly with each other and knew what was going on in each other's lives. And although the abductors' route indicated that maybe he had been local, it was difficult to accept because it was broad daylight

and nobody had seen anything. And it's like, that was so risky of this person to do that with an opportunity for so many witnesses. There was one witness, but like the opportunity that anyone could be glancing around or looking out the window in broad daylight on a beautiful summer day or winter day. Sorry. But also to do it like, I mean, you're like apartment buildings and everything. Like it was

not only so risky, it was, again, with the classic, we're always talking about the confident narcissist, but it's like to think you just could and like. And did. And did. I mean, you got, hey, you got away with it. You got brazen enough to do it and it worked and that's just so sick. Hey, you got away with it. You got brazen enough to do it and it worked and that's just so sick. So because of that fact that it was such a risky and brazen move, they started to look, the FBI first focused on locals who had been convicted of sex crimes, who had committed repeat offenses. So somebody who clearly was going to be a repeat offender. And so that's where they

began. And then they brought in their search to single men in the surrounding neighborhoods, and then used a grid map and canvassed every residence in that area. They got thousands of tips and none went anywhere. So several days after Amber's disappearance, a cold front moved in on the warm weather causing thunderstorms and heavy rain. So washing away any evidence. Well, just before midnight on January 17th, a man went out to walk his dog along a drainage ditch near an apartment complex and he saw the body of a child in the water. Oh, I did not see that coming. Oh, shit.

I... Okay. My... Okay. I did not see that coming. Oh, shit. I okay. My okay. I had never heard the story of an Amber alert and I always assumed like, Oh, she was saved because of the first Amber alert or the first. Okay. Wow. That's how I saw this going. Okay. Yeah. I'm sorry. Maybe I should have given a better warning. No, hey, like just a really fucked up plot twist, I guess. I don't know.

Yeah, yeah. It's like one of those things where you want it to be hopeful because it had some positive outcome, but it's just like, we just know about the silver lining, not the part that predated it, you know? Yeah, that's terrible. Gio. Please, compared to everything he's done, say like- I just can't have both of you on my ass right now.

I'm still... He apparently just ate right through the doggy marijuana and nothing happened, so. Cool. Yeah. So, yes, I do apologize. It's just sad. So, this guy's out. He sees this drainage ditch.

It's really deep, there's this very swift moving water and the dog starts barking at the water and running back and forth in distress and that also breaks my heart because it's like, he didn't even spot the child at first and the dog did. And I mean, presumably knew that the child was deceased and it's like the fact that the dog was like, look, look, you know, help or, oh, it just makes me,

like, sick to my stomach. And so when the dog, or when the owner of the dog, Stuart, got closer and saw a partially submerged body of a child, it's just a horrible thing to say, he already knew who it was because Amber's news had been just so pervasive locally. So he immediately believed it was her. And so he, it's unclear whether he ran home

and called 911 or had his wife call 911 and rush back, which I think that's what happened. Either way. What year was this again? 96, 96. Yeah, I can't, I don't think anyone really had cell phones yet. Well, so what I mean is like,

I don't know if he ran back and called himself or if he ran back and told his wife to call because. I see. What we do know is that the caller told the operator that the water was rushing over the child's body and the operator said, I'm worried that the body will be washed away by the water. And the caller said, she said, my husband's out there, he won't let her go. And so he ran out and like made sure her body didn't get like washed away in the drainage ditch.

I mean, it's just like the fucking worst thing I've ever heard. Yeah. And so of course Amber's family is like immediately made aware that a child's remains have just been discovered a few miles down from Donna's parents home. And so it would take time to determine that the remains did actually belong to her, but in the meantime they could only wait and maybe potentially know that this is probably what is going to happen. So they wait for hours. They watch on the news as authorities remove the child from the creek on a stretcher covered by a medical sheet and wheel them away for identification. They have to listen to reporters speculating

that this is Amber or whether or not it's Amber. And all night Pam and the documentary crew remained with Donna and for what it's worth, per her request, she asked them to stay there. And finally, Amber was positively identified by unique birthmarks. This is where as I was like getting into the depths of the story, I was like, maybe I'm misremembered and it's like not Amber and like, That's what I was, well, not that I'm hoping it's another kid. Yeah, it's like some freak misunderstanding, but like, no, unfortunately, it's just is everyone's worst nightmare that

it was in fact a child, it was in fact Amber. And the victim assistance team was granted five minutes to inform Amber's family before the media announced it. So they had five minutes to privately grieve? To privately grieve. Or to even process. Shit, let them have three hours since that's how long it took anyway for people to start realizing she was gone. Exactly. Five minutes is just unthinkable, but at this point they've watched it all on TV. It must be surreal as it is.

So they tell Donna she collapses. She's still in denial at this point. She demands to see the remains herself and she wants to hold her daughter, but she's told that an autopsy needs to be performed. And that was made top priority. So they did an autopsy and they found that Amber was killed by a severe laceration across the neck from one side to the other. Oh my God. There were no signs of physical torture or sexual abuse on Amber's body. Although, you know, they can't rule out a sexual component.

You know, we've all heard that idea that, like, sometimes the violence is the sexual gratification or the sexual part of the act. So, uh... Oh, my God. ...it's possible, but they didn't find any signs of rape. There was also a lack of posthumous injuries that would indicate that

she had been floating far in the creek before discovery. And investigators believed she was basically discovered where she had been placed. So she hadn't been moving rapidly through the water. It was more that she had been there until the drainage ditch kind of filled up and she was spotted for the first time. Terrible. Is that any, I mean, this is obviously a terrible situation, but is that better or worse for the police in terms of investigating? Definitely better, right? I mean, I would think better because it's less damage to her body posthumously and also would give you some sort of clue, right,

as to like, yeah, if it was the same location where she had been left, that gives them more information. I mean, I want to say that, but then just spoiler alert, we don't get many answers, so... Oh, okay, well... It just gets worse, I'm sorry. This whole time I thought we were going to at least figure out what happened. Well, okay, so they. I'm sorry. This whole time, I thought we were going to at least figure out what happens.

Well, OK, so they believe the killer must have already known about the creek because kind of like what we're saying is, OK, maybe if if this was where her body was disposed of, maybe this abductor knew this location. So perhaps he lived in the nearby apartment complex. So they began systematically interviewing the residents of every occupied apartment that kind of was right next to that drainage ditch. Yeah.

But while the complex had two gates, one was broken. So anyone could come and go. And there was not really like a code that was working on one of the gates. So a surveillance camera had picked up a black pickup truck driving through the parking lot that night, but because the storm, wind and rain made the footage so blurry,

they couldn't make out the license plate or the make and model. Of course, of course. And it's the 90s, so the footage already at nighttime is not gonna be here. It's at like two pixels, yeah. Exactly, like you'd just see a square, you know? But finally, you know, after the autopsy is performed

and they give Donna the chance to hold Amber. So she does get to do that. The funeral was public, over 2,000 people attended. Cars and condolence gifts poured in from around the world. People sent in hundreds of stuffed animals and toys in memory of Amber. And then a few days after the funeral, Donna donated them to the families at the women's shelter where she'd lived before. I'm sorry.

Oh my gosh. No. It really fucks me up, dude. Yeah, I get it. So in the months following Amber's murder, Donna moved back into her apartment with her son Ricky, who, I mean, imagine, like, he's five or six years old. It's just, like, unfathomable, you know? And also, you know he's got some sort of, like...

He's had to have racked his mind for years, right? It's like, well, I left her there, you know, something. Or, like, what did I see, or did I... could I have seen anything, or stopped it, or... I mean, imagine the grandpa who, like, found out, oh, and, like, saw her bike there. Like what did I see or could I have seen anything or stopped it or? I mean imagine the grandpa who like found out, oh, and like saw her bike there. I mean like everyone has had some sort of survivor's guilt over this.

I imagine so. Even the man who said like I couldn't make out the license plate and it's like, oh man, you know, you just wish, oh you wish, you wish. Coulda, shoulda, woulda. It's too bad. So Donna received thousands of dollars in donations in supporter, or from supporters in Amber's name. But unfortunately, this became kind of a problem

because she put the money into a trust fund because she really one day, she had hoped that one of her kids or both of her kids would be able to attend college someday. So she put this donated money aside for in a trust for Ricky, but the welfare department said, well, that's money that you have that you could be using for rent, groceries, et cetera.

So we're taking basically our support back. And it just, I talk about a fucking slap in the face. Big ass middle finger. Oh my God. Yes, yes. And they then said, well, why don't you seek child support from Richard and get money that way. And ultimately they just pulled her social benefits after Amber died.

That's such trash. That's such trash. It's trash. It is. And this is like the most just outrageous- Infuriating. Well, just listen to this sentence. What? Ultimately, Donna lost her social benefits following Amber's death, even while being honored at a ceremony for her outstanding volunteer work at the welfare office, work she had done for free to support the program

she believed in and that had once helped her. What an absolute terror of a headline. Is that not just the world's shittiest headline or sentence in the world? I'd quit that day. I'd be like, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. I can't imagine the slap in the face like the just betrayal of which like you know She it's not even like she's a random person seeking out help like she has connections to the people who could approve this and there's

She's helping other people right exactly. It's just amazing. It's just amazing. Oh my god. That's I Obviously not worse than her losing her fucking child. That's certainly the certainly the most ridiculous thing I've heard in this story so far. It's just the most blatant slap in the face. Like you couldn't get more ironic plot twist shitty turn of events, you know? And talk about salting a wound. It's like she literally lost her fucking kid. You can't just... And she's trying to raise her five yearold now, you know, and feed him.

And she's the poster child for How Wonderful You Are? Right. And they're trying to get some sympathy, empathy going here for people to really support these systems and support this kind of support for other people. But it's just rough times. True. I mean, just talk about total betrayal. Total betrayal.

It's just hard to imagine this is what 30 years ago and we're still fucking if you thought your job sucked you know that's yeah that's got to be no one was having a worse day than her that day tell you that that's got to be really really really bad she I mean it was she she sometimes lacked the will to even live she she said. And she said, I just want to go be with Amber. I get it. But she had Ricky and she said, so she wanted to live for him. She became a highly public figure.

She advocated for Amber for the safety of other kids in Texas. The Arlington community rallied behind her and really sought justice for Amber and her family. Donna did receive support from other families of abduction murder victims like Polly Closs's father and that story I covered in episode 412, which wasn't too long ago. Okay. And so she did receive some support that way.

Investigators continued to follow up on thousands of tips, including one woman who apparently, talk about like twisted, she fabricated a story about seeing Amber in a black pickup truck, going so far as to give up harsh, making up a partial license plate. Why?

And getting an innocent man, I'll tell you, and getting an innocent man investigated before she admitted she just lied because she thought it would give Donna some hope. I don't even know what to do with that. Like, thanks for nothing? Sit down. Like, sit down. I've never understood the like, oh, I'm being helpful in a way that's actually not helpful at all. That just like makes it so much worse. Like get out of here. And just muddies everything up. And then gets another family involved

that had nothing to do with it. And gets another person in trouble. Yeah. What? No, fuck. Yeah, just don't. If you don't have something to say, that's going to help. Just be quiet, you know?

So one day Fort Worth, Texas resident Diana Simone called her local radio station with an idea. Now this is where I was like, wait, what? This is how this happened? Diana Simone of Fort Worth, Texas calls the local radio and says, I have a great idea. There should be a system in place between law enforcement agencies and radio stations

so that we can announce when a child goes missing right away and make sure we find them. You know what's really like wild is that someone had to pitch that that should have just been like, Hey, the second we have a radio people should know about things. I know, but you wouldn't. Maybe there's like a legality is of like, well, we can't announce until blah, blah, blah or something.

But like, I think there was probably also not like a widespread like alert system in place maybe, like that could- Maybe, but wouldn't you think, like, I mean, I'm speaking like- Hindsight. Hindsight, retroactively, whatever. But like, I would imagine if the second radio came out and they were warning you of like a fire nearby or the weather

or like hey a tornado's coming and look out why why didn't it occur to them like hey there's also there's someone missing you know you're probably right i think i think i think it must have just been like well they're not going to release that information publicly yeah i guess if they're looking for someone's killer like if you announce announce, hey, this kid just went missing, like you have no control over the case. So maybe it's like they needed a system in place, especially for kids, like they're not gonna just go around announcing names of, you know, on public police radio

that you can just like hear. It just, it feels so obvious. Like it's wild, it had to be pitched a long time after radio was invented. I agree. I agree. But Diana Simone, a light bulb went off in her head. She said she followed Amber's case on the news and thought that Amber may have been found if the public could have known immediately to be on the lookout for the abductor and the

black truck. And I think it was specifically the black truck, because think of an Amber Alert. It's about the vehicle. It oftentimes has the license plate or at least a partial plate or at least make and model. And so, you know, I think that was where it clicked for her. Like, oh, if we had known to look out for that black truck,

we could have been more cognizant in the hours like before we even knew she had been abducted. So she said, maybe the radio station can work with first responders to create a system that immediately notifies the public of abductions. And Donna, meanwhile, is continuing to advocate at this point in time, she was continuing to advocate for change to help families in abduction cases.

She was speaking at town hall meetings and in documentaries and news specials. And so when she kind of heard about this, it took only a few months, but in October of 1996, the Amber plan was officially announced publicly. Wow. The fact that it only took a few months too.

Isn't that, that's when women get involved. I'm telling you. So sorry guys. Hey police, hey radio. I feel like I'm sorry I'm gonna I'm still harping on this thing but I feel like pitching the that couldn't have been the first time that was pitched. Like yeah they it couldn't have been and then I feel like someone in my mind as a man, someone was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll worry about that later. But like the second she shows up, she's like, we're fucking doing it.

And months later it was enacted. Like someone pitched it about milk cartons of all things. But you couldn't do it about the closest thing to the worldwide source of information. Worldwide, you know what? Like you're making a very good point. I do feel like maybe it was just never prioritized until something like this happened.

And it was like so publicly- Someone who hated children, it was pitched to. And he went, I don't care. Or someone who just loved money more than he cared about children. 100%. I would say is more likely. But yeah, no, I, so, okay. It only took a few months.

This woman's a rock star. Great. Yeah, yeah. So, well, so okay, it only took a few months. This woman's a rock star, great. Yeah, yeah. So, well, Simone and, or Diana Simone and Donna, they, I guess, merged minds. Worked together. Yeah, and the Amber Plan is announced. It's of course named after Amber, but it's also an acronym for

America's Missing Broadcast Emergency Response. Oh, I had no idea. I know. Fun fact I had no idea. I know. Fun fact. Pretty powerful stuff. So now when this plan went into action, when an abduction occurred, information of the victim, the suspect, any vehicle involved,

and other relevant information would be shared with local radio stations. The radio stations would interrupt their broadcast with a loud noise. Many of us know it, at least the one in the US or I don't know if it's regional or what, but it's really a scary sound and alert the public to the situation. In 2005, Hawaii became the final state to make its Amber alert plan, completing all 50 states having,

and DC having a some sort of nationwide system to alert the public of child abductions. I guess. Question. Yeah. Not really a serious question, but still one I'm curious about is, do you know how they picked that sound? Because they could have picked any horrible sound. Why did they pick that one? Like what is it supposed to like hit a certain decibel in your brain that freaks you out? I mean, my thought, my association with it was always like one of those old timey like military and now like wartime announcements.

Like that's always my gut instinct is like, we interrupt this. But I don't know, maybe not. I wonder what other sounds they tried first. I don't know. Cause they could have gone with like a tornado drill, like a brrrr, brrrr. That's true, that's true. Anyway, I know that's like- I know, I wonder what the logistics are behind that,

like behind the scenes, like that's too close to a tornado sound, we don't want people thinking it's like weather related and like this is too close to a bomb announcement or you know, I don't know. I mean, yeah, this is a genuinely interesting question. I have no clue. We'll figure it out. We'll look it up in the Appio.

Yeah, that's actually a great idea. Okay. So, according to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, the system is also active across indigenous American land, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, and like I said, D.C. Similar rapid emergency child alert systems are active in dozens of countries worldwide. Chime in below with your sound. Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, and like I said, DC. Similar rapid emergency child alert systems

are active in dozens of countries worldwide. Chime in below with your sound in your town, especially if it's a chime, because that sounds nice, ours isn't. Ours is not a chime, it's not a dainty little whistle chime. No, it's not a nice little wind chime or anything like that.

It's a scream, it's like a digital scream. So the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children also states that as of December 31st, 2024, 1,268 children have been recovered due to the activation of an Amber Alert. Hell yeah. I know, and I wanna tell you, Em, because I know that I made it sound like

there was no real silver lining or like positive story to come out of this, but there is, because I am gonna tell you about the first child who was rescued due to the Amber Alert. So I would appreciate that. I do have a hopeful story at the end here. One such child was Rayleigh Bradbury,

who was kidnapped by her babysitter in Arlington, Texas in 1998, triggering an Amber Alert. Just 30 minutes later, a man called 911 and said he saw the babysitter on the road with Rayleigh in the passenger seat and said, quote, this is one of the wildest things I've ever heard. And this is exactly how I would have sounded on the call to 911. That amber alert, the lady's right in front of me. I'm on Interstate 20 fixing to cross 1382.

That's her. I can't believe it. Oh, wow. He literally heard the ever alert went, that's the car. I've always done that where I see the lights plate and I look around like, are you right here next to me on the highway? And they're never there. Well, also, like, yeah, I I don't mind him freaking out because he's like, holy shit, I get to be the first person to use this.

I mean, and it's like it really works. It's probably just like, holy shit, you just said, hey, this child is missing and I see her. Like, it must be like, mind boggling, you know? Yeah. And so it really worked. And so Rayleigh was quickly rescued. She was returned safely to her mother.

And she became the first child to be saved by the Amber Alert system. Wow. Wow. And now get this, this is where Christine cries for three. There's, what is it? Three times? Five, ten. Hello? Five times ten, fifty times so far you've cried. Oh, I thought you were saying, I don't know what I thought you were saying. I was like, why are you doing

math? What's happening? So this is where, yeah, I cry for the 500th time. Rayleigh said in an interview years later that she grew up after this thinking of Amber as her literal guardian angel. Stop. And she used to pray to her at night and be like, thank you for saving me. It's just like, oh. That's a, yeah, I get it. So as for Amber's younger brother, Ricky, he said in a documentary about Amber that

whenever, god damn it. 51! He said whenever he hears an Amber alert, he thinks it's time to go to work, sis. Do your thing. Oh, that's pretty, that's pretty heartbreaking. Anyway, so Amber's legacy, of course, is like bittersweet because of course, you know There are these like happy stories that come out of it But of course there, you know, you know, you don't ever really recover from something like that

Especially because they have never caught the person who abducted amber and killed her And you know, what's sick is he proud if he's alive, he probably has the nerve to make a nose about a fucking Amber alert. Yeah, he's like he's the reason you know, he's got some narcissistic bullshit to him. That's just it's so dark. In a 2023 documentary, which is, you know, one of the more recent ones on this case, investigators discuss that they may be able to use new forensic techniques to extract DNA from some of the very limited evidence they have, but they don't want to waste, because when you use it, you use it up, and so they don't have much left.

And they don't want to accidentally use it up, and the technology isn't good enough yet. So they're kind of sitting on it. So they're waiting a few more years for more DNA advances before risking using up all the potential DNA. So, you know, there is hope there. So we'll see. On anniversaries of Amber's abduction and death, Donna has made different statements to the press alongside investigators, usually just encouraging the public to keep Amber's case in mind and come forward with any new information. She said, I want the world to know who Amber was. She was my dream. And that is the story. Sorry. I'm 52. Oh, God.

You really got me today, man. No, that's a pretty fucking devastating story. That's, um, that's a rough one. I, I feel like an asshole because half the time I was wrangling a dog while listening to it. And I like I just so badly. I hope it didn't look like I wasn't giving you my attention. No, not at all. Not at all. I listen. I knew you had multitasking. You had a wily wily wily one on your hands. And I want you to know 60 seconds ago, this finally happened.

No, 60 seconds ago, he's completely on. He's completely still. It's the first time literally all day. He's like sleeping. Is he sleeping? He's on his way. Holy shit. Like seconds ago, he was trying to bite my hand off while you were talking about something really fucking horrible. Maybe he sensed it. He's like, don't be sad. Play with me. It's our job to be sad.

It's how we pay the bills. It's how we pay your dog weed bills. That you don't appreciate. I hope you're stoned out of your mind now. Oh, that's what happened. The edible kicked in. So how long did that take? A whole fucking podcast? Okay? I'll start drugging you as soon as you Know he only gets puppy weed when we're recording, but I got to figure out the timing of when it kicks in I guess Oh my well it seems like it We have some work to do on that timing, but next time maybe The night before and it'll kick in by tomorrow morning.

Jesus. Well, no, that was a very good story. Thank you for telling me at the end, like a hopeful part to it because, and I didn't know, like 1270 is around there's the number of how many kids have been saved. around there is the number of how many kids have been saved. Nice. And then now do you get those silver alerts where it's like an endangered senior? Older person, yeah. Yeah, I wonder how many people have been helped with that too. I'd like to see those numbers. I know, I'm curious. We could check it out in the Yappy Hour because we have a lot to Google. We sure do. Thank you everyone for listening. When this comes out we will be on the road again. We'll be heading over to New Orleans in a couple days. I can't wait.

It'll be a good time. So thank you for listening. Sorry to everybody who's been having to endure the puppy era I'm going through right now. I had a great time. And good story, Christine. Thank you. you too. And? That's. Why?

We. Drink.