Aidan vs. Berger: Who Was Worse? with Bethany Joy Lenz.... (S6 E5 "Lights, Camera, Relationship)
00:00 This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. I'm Melissa Jeltson, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform.
00:24 And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for IHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Yuwanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DeGulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business.
01:07 Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week, I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour.
01:29 You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It's all just a joke. What is the value of these women? I'm Bridget Armstrong. Back with Season 2 of the podcast, Curse of Miss America.
01:53 We're talking to participants, whistleblowers, and people who say Miss America didn't live up to their promises. He looks and he goes, you don't look. like you suffered in the eating disorder. I never received scholarship money to pay for my student loans. Maybe this is the meta question for the podcast. What is Miss America at this point? Listen to the curse of Miss America on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Hamza.
02:19 And I'm Martin. And we're the hosts of Out of Character. The best podcast in the world is what they said. Wait, they said that? Yeah, yeah, they said that. The best podcast with two best friends who jabber and talk about topical, trendy, funny stuff, put on it. That's what you've needed, I think, up until now, listener. Listen out of character on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Sometimes I just feel like a burden.
02:43 You're a bird. You fly. You're a Martin. And we are out of character. Character podcast. Dude, we messed up the clip. Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte? Welcome back, everybody, to Are You a Charlotte? Today, fun guest, Bethany Joy Lens, from One Tree Hill. Part two. Thanks for joining us. Here we go.
03:08 All right. Let's go back. Let's go back to the men folk. Okay. So wait, the burger thing, so crazy to me watching this episode. I didn't remember any of what they go through. And it was super fascinating. Yeah.
03:20 Like, I really, really was with Carrie in this, you know. I was too. Yeah. Yeah. And as much as I love Ron Livingston as an actor and really, and it made me love him even more because he's so good in this part. I mean, he's really good. It's hard to pull off.
03:36 It's true. It's really hard. Likeable, but also selfish, so selfish. I mean, yeah, I don't even know. Like, I don't even know. I mean, I don't even know. It was just a little, but there was a childishness to that
03:48 that I really could not get on board with. But I totally was with Carrie in this episode. And it was like, you know what, man. Oh, this was one of the things I wrote down in my notes. It was something to the effect of, I wish I had them in front of me, but it was something to the effect. of if we make excuses, we're looking at this behavior and making excuses and he's, oh, he says,
04:11 I don't want to be that guy. Oh, that, yes. Remember? That was good. And that line made me think, like, the amount of times I have been told that by men. Oh, really? Yes. That I've been in relationships with and they make stupid choices or do something stupid.
04:28 And they're like, I don't want to be this guy. Okay. Help me not be this. God, help me. You know, it's that, that's the implication. Interesting. I don't want to be this guy. I just, that's kind of, that's not great.
04:40 No, and the thing is you have to, if somebody, I just think, if a guy says that to you, or if anyone says that to you, it's like, then don't. But I'm not here to facilitate your process of not being the person. Because what they're doing is telling you who they are. You're saying I am this guy. This is great. This is who I am. I don't think I've ever had a guy say this to me.
04:59 So I don't know about this. No, I don't know about this. I've heard this a handful of times. This is super interesting. I mean, when he finally said that, I'll tell you what I liked about it. I was like, at least he has some awareness that he's being an asshole. Right, which is what we always think. When they say that, you think, okay, there's hope.
05:18 He knows. Right. Right. Because they never say that. Right. Like, I've been in situations. This is so sad. Okay.
05:28 I've been in situations with people where you're just waiting. for some acknowledgement, some basic acknowledgement. And you're like, if they could just take responsibility, things would be so much easier. Not that it would necessarily change my actions or my wanting to be in this or not being this, right? But it would at least facilitate an honest conversation. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
05:53 I guess that's a commentary on my exes that I'm giving right now. If any of you are listening, take responsibility. ability, right? That's like the one part. And I'm not really sure that he was, but at the point in the scene when he finally says that, it's a relief. Because you're also like, she's so frustrated. Do you know how crazy you're being? Exactly. Right, right, right. I think, I'm trying to think now what would be a more acceptable answer for me anyway to hear because hearing, I don't want to be that guy just tells me, I'm this, this is who I am. It's not, but we hear, we're trained to hear, oh, he doesn't want to be that. So he cannot. So we're going to. Because that's what he's actually saying, right? So you're, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt, right? And you're saying, no, no, no, you should look at that and go like, no, that's who he's actually being. He's saying, this is who I am. Right. Yes.
06:41 So believe it. Right. But if somebody is taking responsibility, what does that look like? It's, I don't want to be this guy. And so, therefore, this is what I'm going to do to make some changes. That would be nice. Just some kind of like, it's not like, I don't want to be this way. You know how many times in my life I could say that about myself?
06:58 Like, getting out of bed too late, being lazy about things. like so many things in my life. Sure, I guess I hadn't thought about this. I don't want to be this way. But am I actually going to do anything to change it? I'm probably getting really too, like philosophical about it. I like it. I like it.
07:11 It bugged me when I heard that. I mean, this is good. I like that. For me, I was relieved because I was like, is he going to just continue like being a jerk and what, like, forcing her? I'll tell you, this is what bugs me. This is what bugs me. And I think the situation that I found my mind.
07:31 myself in. They're like gaslighting in a way of like, I'm not being a jerk. What's wrong with you? Right. That's the worst. Right. I think that's what I've dealt with more, right? And so you see Carrie kind of escalating because she's just like, what the heck is going on? Like, I don't want to get on the motorcycle, then I get on the motorcycle, then you dig my nails into your side and you don't seem to pay any attention. Do you mean? Now you're, you know, looking at me like I'm crazy while I'm shouting at you. Like everything's put on her, right?
08:00 which is the worst. So then he goes, I don't want to be this guy. I was like, oh, thank God, thank God. He has some awareness that he's being a jerk and he can at least say that. So I guess it's like the first step, right? But then really if you want like a full person
08:18 that you could actually be with or work with or whatever they would need to say a more complete, like I don't want to be this way. I'm being this way because my book deal got dropped and I feel like shit. And it's really hard to stand next to you when you're, you know, doing great and buying me, you know, $800 part of shirts. And you don't know what I'm trying to say like a full thing.
08:38 But sometimes I guess the only way to really see if they're taking responsibility is time. You have to be able to see what happens next. Like what you said. Yeah. Because that also is what how covert narcissists work is they'll, it's push, push, push, push until you can't take it anymore and you're about to leave. And then they're like, I'm terrible. I'm so sorry. I hate that I'm terrible.
08:55 And you're like, okay, you acknowledge it. Great. There's hope. You get back on the boat with them. Then again, the same thing happens over and over. So if it becomes a pattern, then it's a problem. But maybe with this guy, it's just the one thing. But she hasn't been with him long enough to really know.
09:08 No, it's not just the one thing. But then we see that it. No, but this is the thing. This is the thing that's interesting that I had a little breakdown when I saw this. So in the first episode where he meets her at the publishers, right, they meet in the office, then they go and they have the McDonald's on the bench. She's flirting, flirting, flirting. He's flirting, flirting.
09:29 It's so exciting for her because she's in the post. Post-Aid and post-big, like, single carry, which is, you know, long and stressful, right, for her? And she's like, oh, there is hope, right? And then she finally gets up the nerve to say, would you be my plus one to this book party? And he goes, oh, well, my girlfriend's parents are coming. I completely forgot about that. Everyone does. I totally had two.
09:51 I was like, wait, we had a red flag at the get-go. And he doesn't, he says it's super casual, right? Like, oh, no, I can't because my girlfriend, no, no, no. And she's like, huh? Why are you out sitting on a park bench eating lunch with me? Flirt your little butt off with me. Do you know what I mean? Then he breaks up with the girlfriend later,
10:07 but that's so covert narcissist, right? Yes. Isn't it? It absolutely is. So we had a red flag. They have to have another food source to go to. Right? Does he break up with the other girlfriend in a post-it note too?
10:19 Did care ever find out? We don't even know. We just casually hear that she's gone later. The next episode or whatever. That's bad news. Or maybe it's a couple episodes we don't see him. Bad news. I know, right?
10:31 Right? But see, this is super, super helpful for me because I don't remember any of this and I don't think at the time and I feel this way very often when I'm looking at Mr. Begg, you know, for us, I was, you know, we were like in New York.
10:49 I graduated college in 87 and moved to New York or Hoboken as close as I could get to New York. You know, we were so used to Mr. Begg's. You know, we never thought twice. Like I never doubted that she should be with Mr. Big. Never crossed my mind until he stands her up at the wedding. But that's obviously much later in the film, right?
11:10 But, you know, I was just like, Mr. Big is great. Yeah. Right? That was my... Same. I always felt that way when I was hearing. Now you rewatch and you're like, what? Right?
11:21 So it's super interesting to look at these guys and the relationships and how well written they are from the lens of today. Because I never thought any of these things. Yes. And also I know the actors, right? So that also colors my whatever. Of course. I was just like, what's... Yeah. I was like, wait, he breaks up with their own post? What? I know. I didn't see any... Now it's like, wait, Aiden, can we get Aiden back and like tie this up? Because that he was the best. Did you watch and just like that, though? No. I'm sorry. I'm just going off of sexist. You can get the, you can get, you can find out. Oh, gosh. Okay.
11:57 You can watch in just like that and find out. Oh, no. I'm sure some people... I mean, look, I'm not going to rewatch and just like that because I don't have the space yet from it. But I do think at some point I might. Because obviously also, like, you know, this is a very long time that we've been writing these shows, you know?
12:18 And we have incredible writers, obviously. And some of our fans do not like what we did with characters and just like that. And I love to watch the comments about the characters because there's obviously teammate in. there's team big. I think some of those things are mixed up now, right? In the lens of 2026. But I also think that some people are just like,
12:38 some people are like, I always hated Aden, so it made perfect sense what you did in and just like that. And then some people are like, what on earth did you do to Aiden? And then just like that, right? So it's like whatever. And I mean, to me, not having rewatched it all yet, I thought it made sense.
12:56 Easton, did it make sense to you? And just like that? Aiden? But you don't like him, do you? You always disliked Aiden? Why? He's always been focused on himself. He didn't care about Carrie for who she is.
13:12 It is true. He didn't totally see her. Like he didn't want her to smoke in the beginning. Like little signs. There were little signs. She was always trying to fit into the box that Aiden wanted her to be in. I'm going to have to actually just rewatch Sex in the City now to be able to pick up some of that.
13:26 Because that's just my memory of him was like, he was great. Well, of course, you're also going on the energy. and the chemistry that they had, which was incredible. Yes. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what's confusing. Yes, Easton?
13:36 Do you agree as a guy? I do. I'd like to hang out with Aden. I mean, he's got good vibes. I don't think he's the best for Carrie. I always think back to my motherboard myself. Oh, good one. Carrie's computer dies.
13:49 And he gets her a new computer, an Apple. An Apple. A brand new, like, IMac laptop. And she says, I don't want a new computer. I want the one that I had. Aiden's like, well, I got you a new computer. Why aren't you happy? Oh, yeah.
14:04 That's a good example. That's a really good example. Hello? Watch our radio presents. The soundtrack to your October. From spooky podcasts and chilling playlists to nonstop Halloween radio and more. We have all the thrills and chills you're craving this season. Press play.
14:39 I'm Melissa Jeltson and in my new podcast, what happened to her, I'm bringing you new stories and conversations every week. Stories about women whose deaths were too quickly ruled a suicide. She was starting to get worried and get scared for her safety. Stories of survival. The only difference between me and her, frankly, was a little bit of luck, because by all rights, I should be dead. Cases that everyone else called closed.
15:12 They can't convict her, right? Like, she has so much evidence. These stories all start in the same place with a woman failed by a system that didn't believe her, that didn't protect her, that didn't see her. No child should ever experience that. And we were babies. She did all of these brave things and came out and spoke about it
15:33 and he got a year. Never know who that devil is because he's wearing the disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. Listen to what happened to her on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you. you get your podcasts. For more than a century, Miss America sold the country of fantasy. Well, all you ready, ladies?
15:54 Okay, here we go. But over the past decade, the crown's been slipping. They said goodbye to swimsuits. Now, hello to lawsuits. I'm Bridget Armstrong. Last season, we took you inside the world of America's next top model. Now I'm back with season two of this podcast, Curse of Miss America, investigating the rise, fall, and uncertainty.
16:15 future of one of America's most iconic institutions. The Miss America pageant. I never received scholarship money to pay for my student loans. He looks at me and goes, you don't look like you suffered an eating disorder. It's great, but looks too ethnic. It's a story the Miss America organization really doesn't want us to tell. An exploitation of our Miss America's is treated by the Miss America organization as an attack on Miss America itself.
16:53 Listen to The Curse with Miss America on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Youanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart.
17:15 And I'm Lisa DiGulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived at a lot. I'm not gonna get anyone fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, Good Taste is my business, and I've always got something to say.
17:37 If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're gonna talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do, what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight.
17:58 Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't really care. I'm Hamza. And I'm Martin. And we're the hosts of Out of Character. It's a podcast. I know there's a lot of them going around. But why should you listen to ours? Well, we're only the best podcast in the entire world. And we talk about pretty much everything under the sun. For example, music we're listening to, underground music, trending music, drama in music worlds. Yes, sometimes we even talk about just everyday mundane situations in our lives, like the cool Uber driver we just had. Or the food we just say that is surprisingly delicious. Or we'll talk about the Med Gala and the looks that they wore.
18:46 Are they awesome? Are they trendy? Come find out. Because our opinion matters. And so does yours. and this is a place where all of our minds can come together and connect. So what are you waiting for? Come connect with us. Listen out of character from Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Pods, or wherever you get your podcasts. It is interesting though because I also feel, I mean, these are fictional characters, okay, everyone don't get worried.
19:14 Sometimes in my comments. Everybody's like, you do know their fictional characters. I've just really, you know, because I know all the people, right, so it's hard to be objective about the work. But then now that we're objective about the work and the writing, The writing's so good and so layered that, like, there's two sides to everything. You know what I'm saying? Like, in so many ways.
19:33 And now that we're really looking at Burger, I'm like, well, gee, she never should have been over there. But I also love that she tried. I do too. Right? She needed to try someone different and he's super, super different. Yes. Right? Yes.
19:45 Okay. That was a lot about Carrie. Speaking of trying something different. Yeah. Anthony wants Charlotte to date. You're so good. I mean, I just will have to say, I've always loved Charlotte and Harry. Aw.
20:00 And I was really kind of taken aback when he was like, it's been two weeks. You've got to get out there. And I was like, two weeks, she's been in love with him. She's converting to Judaism for this man. Anthony doesn't care. Anthony's all about sex. Did you see when Anthony tells me that I need to just have casual sex with Harry, that's how Harry, my relationship with Harry starts out.
20:20 I totally forgotten this. Yes, that's right. He takes me to a gay bar. And he's like, you just be like, you know, fuck me now and get out. Yeah. And I'm like, huh? What? And then I try to do it.
20:30 And Harry's like, okay. He's adorable. Oh, yeah. Like he's so adorable that he's just like, well, okay. I remember the look on your face in that episode, too. It's like flashing in my mind of you being like, I'm going to try and do this. Totally. I'm like, I'm going to do what Anthony said.
20:46 I'm going to say these words. And I mean, Kristen, 100 percent, not good at this at all. I'm sure that I'm playing. just my own self there. Do you know what I mean? Like, I don't know nothing about casual sex. I'm very bad at it. Always have been tried, really tried, just not good at it. Yeah, I've tried too.
21:04 It's not, somebody always loses an eye. It's just not. Right? It's not good. Well put. Well put. It's not a great thing. I mean, whatever. It's great if you can do it. I'm jealous of the people who can do it. Let me put it that way. I'm just not one of them. But, you know, so I think we're going along the
21:22 Anthony. So Anthony, at the beginning of the Harry situation where Charlotte's like, I really like him, but he's not what I think I should be liking or whatever. And he's like, just fuck him. You know, this whole thing. Now we're continuing down that we're now going to Anthony for romantic advice, which I partly think is because the girls are not that helpful in a way with this situation. Yeah, I was actually pretty surprised at everyone's response around the table when you were talking
21:46 about, I can't remember exactly what it was. They think that I should just not be Jewish. Yeah. Yeah. They were like, you said, what am I going to give up my new faith? because I'm not with her. Right. And they're like, of course.
21:56 I know. Even Miranda. I know. I was like, do you not know her? I was confused. Listen, the whole time, okay, it's the whole time. It's the whole time of the show. And they get mad at me.
22:07 The real people get mad at me when I say this. So if any of you are listening to me, I'm really sorry. But like in the very beginning of the show, they roll their eyes at me because I'm the counterpoint, right? That's my job. Yes. But it was so hard not to take it personally. Do you mean?
22:21 Because like over and over, they would just roll their eyes. eyes, roll the rise and roll the eyes. And somehow Charlotte is never like, stop rolling your eyes! You know what I mean? But I wanted to. I wanted to. I never thought of that. That must have been hard. It was hard. Thank you so much for understanding. But it was my job. I mean, I do understand
22:39 intellectually, like, it may, we had to have that in the conversations, right? Like we had to have, just like how Miranda has to be, you know, kind of cynical and, you know, no nonsense and whatever. And also Samantha. out. She pretty much sticks to her point of view of like live and let live, do everything.
22:59 I do everything. I do what I want. Like it's great, right? But we needed the conflict of Charlotte being like, but what about love? You know what I mean? Whatever it was, right? And then they all roll their eyes. And then she just continues because she is very kind of strong and
23:15 committed inside herself to her own ideals. Yes. Like even all of her best friends are going to just continue. unique criticizer. Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah.
23:25 But they're also very, they're, there, I think the fact in terms of what you were saying also about actions, right? Like they might roll their eyes, but they're also there. Yes. You know? Yes. Like, it's not like they're like, oh, puff, we won't even, you know, deal with her. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?
23:39 Like, they're really very there, I feel like, you know, like for her to cry on their shoulder or whatever when it needs to happen. You know what I guess that's just part of adult friendship is just, you know, no one is me. I'm not you, you're not me. We can be close and connected. You can support someone in the way that they have decided they want to live their life and they want to view the world. But nobody's ever going to convince me to not be me or see the world the way I do. You know, I can learn things and grow, obviously, which we need each other for.
24:12 But yeah, I think that maybe when I was younger, I imagined that friendship is kind of, we get this illusion in grade school of, like, Like you find the people that are your U-2, you-to's, and that everything in life is going to be, oh, yeah, we're the same, we see it the same, we're going through the world the same way. It's sweet for a season, but I don't think that's really what real friendship is made out of. So it's, I mean, I guess that's just part of it, you know, you have to have people that see things differently. But that's still hard because it's still like a loneliness to it.
24:46 I do feel when I watch Charlotte, I do feel a bit like there's a loneliness, but I always, but I also feel like everyone in the group of the Friends on Sexon City benefits definitely from having the others around. Yes. Like you need the other. It's like a weight in balance system. Definitely. Definitely.
25:06 Now in my real life, I tend to just have a few friends that I've had forever. Right. And we do see things really pretty similarly. And that's such a joy. Yes. You know, like just a, like a, it's like a restful feeling. Do you mean? Like you don't have to be like explaining yourself.
25:30 Yes. Which is so nice. But you have to have some of those people in your life. Yeah. But I also feel like, like you were saying earlier, also it's about time, right? Like over time, you really see who people are. Yeah. You have to earn that.
25:41 See how they behave. And you also know what they've been through, which is, you know, so important in life. Right? Yeah. But, I mean, if one of them just suddenly. significantly changed their mind about something important or whatever, I would have to be like, hey, wait a minute, I've known you for 35 years. Are you sure?
26:00 But I think that's great, right? And then if they said, yes, I'm sure I want to change my mind about whatever, I don't know, the sky is red, I'd just feel like, okay, yes, you know what I mean? But I would question it. I would question it. And I think that's important, right? Like you have to be able to have enough confidence in, and I do feel like it's kind of what happens on the show, right?
26:20 is like everyone knows that everyone has different points of view and they're questioned and debated and we turn it over, right? Like, you know, because that's Carrie's main thing. She's asking the question. Right. And delving in in all different ways, maybe this, maybe that. I don't know. I don't know.
26:36 And I do feel like that's what they do as a for some. And that's kind of their way that they communicate, that they come together. And I think that's great. Yeah. You know? It's really good. Right. You have to have people to process with.
26:45 Right. Yes. Processing. Absolutely. Processing. Yeah. Because there are some friends you just sit. You don't really.
26:50 not a lot of processing to be had. It's like you kind of see things the same way and everything's that cozy, comfortable thing. And then you have friends that like you sit down with and because you know that they're going to spark something. That's true. That's true. That's true too. But my friends have had a long time. We do, I might go to them to process something because they know me so well. And I can say, well, am I off or whatever? Yes. You know what I mean? They're a good barometer because they've known me forever. Yeah. And they can say, and this includes people in the fictional world who are also in the real world.
27:25 Yes. Like sometimes I'll be like, I need to ask Cynthia about this. Because I'm just not sure. Am I off? She knows. Am I not off? Right? And because we've also had a very interesting combination of real life friendship and professional, you know, we've gone through this.
27:39 I'm sure you feel this way with your, right? It's just family. I mean, at that point, they're just family. Because you've gone through so many different. things together. Yeah. That you wouldn't normally go through with your friends, like other sides of life, like business stuff and like having to fight for yourselves and having to kind of group together,
27:58 you know, in tough situations that you might not be with your friends. Yeah. Your regular friends. I agree. Right? When the show picks up, season one, episode one, how long have these girls known each other? Well, Charlotte came to the girlfriends later. Okay.
28:14 They have a flashback at one point to the 80s, I feel like. And the three of them are friends. Yeah, it's brief. I think it might be in season two. I'm sure everyone listening is going to get onto the Instagram and tell me. But they have a flashback, I feel like to call it like a dorm room type of a party. And they're wearing like wacky 80s clothes. But then, oh yeah, no, then we also have a weird flashback where I'm walking across like Washington Square Park with Carrie also wearing an 80s.
28:44 like tennis outfit and she's dressed as Madonna basically, but why? I need to watch this episode. I know. I can't remember now why. I remember what we're wearing and I remember that day, but I can't remember why we're wearing it. Is it a real flashback? Does anyone know?
28:58 Someone will tell us. Hannah's like, I don't know what you're talking about. But so I think that the three of them are friends for a long time and then Charlotte comes to the friend group a little bit later. Okay. But for some time, right? They've been friends when we meet them in season one. Definitely, I would say 10 years, I'd say.
29:18 Okay, okay. So, yeah. At least for the others, maybe for me. Because we're 30 something in the first beginning. We're 33, I think, in real life. I was 33 when the show started, which means so was Sarah. Cynthia would have been 32. Kim would have been, I don't know, something.
29:37 But we're playing for like a few years. Yeah, like early 30s, late 20s. We're not late 20s. We were never in our 20s. That was the point. Right? Because there were no shows that were like. Let's focus on single independent women in their 30s.
29:52 Shocking, okay. Oh yeah, on the cover of the magazine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. That was good. That hangs in my closet. It does? Yeah. Really?
30:00 Who needs a husband. It makes me love every time I look at it. Isn't it good? It's so good. No one told us what the title was going to say. No, they just called us up. like, will you guys be on the cover of time next? We were like, what?
30:15 The cover of time magazine. And we were in the middle, you know, when you're working and you get to the point where like the season's really hard and you're up against the gun or whatever that phrases and you're not going to finish. We were at that part, right, of the season. We were like, how are we going to do this photo shoot? We've got to finish. We're not going to finish.
30:32 They came to Silver Cup where we filmed and photographed us on an empty soundstage like in between scenes, basically, like at lunchtime. Isn't that so funny? The quick moments in life that suddenly become timeless. Yeah. But it is funny when you look at the picture because we're like, you know how they would cut? Like we did stand in a weird triangle and Cynthia had to stand above us on a box and lean our head forward, which is like so awkward in a photo shoot, right?
30:57 But like you can tell they cut and paste it because my head's really small. And Sarah's head is bigger. And since the perspective is strange, but whatever, I love it. Okay. Charlotte, yes, poor Charlotte. she's sad. Okay, she's basically sad and she's embarrassed. And she says, what am I going to say?
31:16 She's at the coffee shop where they're trying to tell her to move on. And she says, what am I going to say? I was married, then got divorced, then fell in love with my divorce lawyer, and we were going to get married, but I blew it and we split up to. And it's true. It is sad. So then she's with Anthony in Central Park, which I love any time we could shoot in Central Park. Such a joy.
31:33 I lived right on Central Park West for most of the show. I loved it. Oh, my God. It was incredible. And then right before COVID. my business manager was like, you really got to let that apartment go. I'm literally. I know what I do.
31:45 But I did. It was probably good. It was probably good. But then we went back to work on it just like that. And I had no apartment. But that's okay. We lived in some very cool Airbnbs. It worked out.
31:55 It worked out. But it's fun to shoot in Central Park, but it's also fun to shoot with Mario anytime. He's very funny. And he's so young. And he wants to pick guys out walking across the park. Yeah. He's pretty silly. That guy.
32:08 Exactly. Exactly. And then. Oh, then we have the naked play. The naked play. Oh, my goodness. I mean, I've been talking to Jason. I've had Jason on the podcast twice already.
32:21 It's great fun. But re-watching Jason is quite something. I remember this day that he had to be naked like yesterday because I was so stressed for him. And he was so calm. Like, because he's been a model, right? And he's talked about it really. Very interestingly, and I remember at the time, because you know how those days, I mean, we've got 200 extras there.
32:47 All of it. Willie's there. Everybody's there. You know, he's up there in this god-awful play, okay? My God. I mean, oh, my God. It's like the worst community theater production of our town ever. It's so bad. It's so bad.
33:02 Until he gives his monologue, oh, thank the Lord, right? I mean, he's just so good. Yeah. He's so good. And it's so interesting how they wrote it because he's so good looking that you really don't think he's going to be good. And then he's so good. But he distract Samantha. She's like, oh, wait.
33:21 Samantha's like, what? You actually are a star. Yeah, and the way they push in because she's going to help him anyway, which is so sweet of her. She's like, listen. You know, I know. She's like, trust me. I know what I'm doing. The gays and then the girls.
33:33 And he doesn't believe it. He doesn't believe it. Which I totally am like, how is she going to do this? Like, he's naked on a billboard in Times Square. that's a that's a it's like good and bad at the same time you know what I'm saying but but then he's so great in that horrible play and it's so so beautifully written it's so good but the thing with Jason that he talks about interestingly because I remember at the time you know it was a lot of sitting in that you know we're basically extras in that scene right we just all have to be there to support because Samantha asked us to be there and Jason this was his I think it's the second scene I've been in with him the first scene would have been the restaurant where we first meet him right which was also so much pressure because all these extras and all the women had to be oogling him. And then we all have to say a moose bush and we couldn't say it. I remember this.
34:16 Like, what's a moose boosh? And we're all talking about veganism, which at that point was brand new, you know, as a thing. And then I remember he had to like, because he's waiting on us, right? So everyone's sitting and he, you know how it's complicated in a restaurant? There's always so many extras and props, right? And you have to like work at all the business out. Yeah, and all the silverware plates. And I just remember, I remember feeling.
34:39 for him like, oh, God, he's the new guy, and there's so much pressure. That's a lot to walk into. Right? And he had to be this, like, incredibly good looking guy, all the things, which he is, obviously. But I was like, oh, man, he's doing great, you know? But then the naked play, I remember just sitting there going like, oh, my God, they're actually going to make him stand up there naked and bow.
35:04 And I feel, right? And the fact that it wasn't just walking. Like, it's one thing, as an actor for me, I would think. It's one thing to walk out naked. It's another thing to get undressed, but not even get step out of the overalls. He just pushes the overalls down to his ankles. It's so vulnerable. I know.
35:26 I felt horrible for him. And then I remember they made him like turn around and then turn back around. And I was like, could you guys just ease up on this guy? And they were like, no. They wanted to make sure they had every angle. They did. I was just dying for him. And I asked him, you know, what did it feel like?
35:44 Like, did it feel strange, the level of objectification? And he said no, that he was somewhat used to it from the modeling world, which, you know, makes sense. But then also he said he had watched how the men in the modeling world treated the women, sometimes who were very young. And, you know, just inappropriate behavior and making them feel so uncomfortable. And it really made him awake to what women go through. all the time in a really interesting way. And so he thought, you know, I can deal with this. I can handle it.
36:14 Like, it was so interesting to hear him talk about it. Wow. Because at the time, I was like, this is not right. I want to, like, cover him up. I feel so bad for him. But he handled it with such grace. What a perspective to take away, too. Right?
36:27 It's really beautiful. I know. Super interesting. He's very interesting. Very interesting guy. Played a very interesting character. I can't remember if I've met him or not. I dated a guy who played his boyfriend on Midnight, Texas.
36:39 Wait, was that the vampire thing? Yeah. Oh, wow. And I've heard great things about it. I'm like just super professional, really, really nice guy. But yeah, I just thought he did such a great job. And he plays a gay vampire? Yeah.
36:51 Or gay cowboy vampire hunter maybe? He's a cowboy, what? Gay cowboy demon hunter, maybe. Okay, so he's not a vampire himself? I don't think he's a vampire. I think he's a vampire. I think he's hunting them. Okay, who knows.
37:03 I don't remember. We need to find out. We're going to see him again. We're going to see him again. But he's so great in this part. And he, as Jerry or Smith or I don't know what you end up calling him. Yeah, it's going to be Smith. It's going to be Smith.
37:14 It's going to be Smith. It could become Smith either this one or the next one. The music you love. I heart radio. Your favorite radio stations. Everywhere you go. The podcasts, everyone's talking about. All in one place. And it's free.
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37:51 Download the free IHard Radio app today. I'm Melissa Jeltson, and in my new podcast what happened to her, I'm bringing you new stories and conversations every week. Stories about women whose deaths were too quickly ruled a suicide. She was starting to get worried and get scared. for her safety. Stories of survival. The only difference between me and her, frankly, was a little bit of luck,
38:20 because by all rights, I should be dead. Cases that everyone else called closed. They can't convict her, right? Like, she has so much evidence. These stories all start in the same place, with a woman failed by a system that didn't believe her, that didn't protect her,
38:36 that didn't see her. No child should ever experience that. And we were babies. She did all of these brave things and came out and spoke about it and he got a year. Never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. Listen to what happened to her on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. For more than a century, Miss America sold the country of fantasy.
39:04 Well, are you ready, ladies? Okay, here we go. But over the past decade, The crown's been slipping. They said, goodbye to swimsuits. Now, hello to lawsuits. I'm Bridget Armstrong. Last season, we took you inside the world of America's next top model.
39:21 Now I'm back with season two of this podcast, Curse of Miss America, investigating the rise, fall, and uncertain future of one of America's most iconic institutions. The Miss America pageant. I never received scholarship money to pay for my student loans. He looks and he goes. You don't look like you suffered an eating disorder. It's great, but looks too ethnic. It's a story the Miss America organization really doesn't want us to tell.
39:52 An exploitation of our Miss America's is treated by the Miss America organization as an attack on Miss America itself. Listen to the curse of Miss America on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Hamza. And I'm Martin. And we're the hosts of Out of Character.
40:17 It's a podcast. I know. There's a lot of them to listen to these days. How are you going to get to us? Well, there's a specific reason why you should listen to us. We are the best podcast in the entire world. I swear. I know, bold. But why don't we list some of the things we might talk about on a regular episode? So sometimes we'll talk about, I don't know, the Uber driver we just had. And how nice they were, or if we tipped them or not, come and find out. Sometimes we'll talk about that weird news story from last week. It's the one you're thinking about. Trust me. Or maybe we'll talk. talk about music and what's happening in the underground or drama in music or TV shows or the Met Gala and what the actors wore. What we're saying is we're not afraid to talk about everything
40:58 under the sun. And if you want to see what that's like, come join us. It's a place where everyone can hang out, anyone. Wherever you're from, whatever you're like, you're welcome. Listen out of character from Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Pods, or wherever you get your podcasts. Lisa? We should tell them about our new show. Oh my god, Lexi. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi You Wanto.
41:23 We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DiGulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anyone fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste, is. is my business, and I've always got something to say.
41:51 If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight.
42:10 Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
42:22 I don't really care. Wait, and then the end of Charlotte is that this great-looking guy who works at Prada, who Carrie brings, you know, talks a little bit of Italian to me. And I'm like, okay, I'm all good. I'm in, I'm in. But then I did hear people, someone said, I think maybe my notes from our producers said that I leave with them. I think we all go out together. I don't leave with him, leave with him.
42:53 I'm not that quick to be better. No, I didn't notice that. Yeah, I know there's like little, you can hear a little probably in ADR. I say like, oh, yeah, we're all going out. You know, like when we've moved on to Carrie, who's talking about, you know, thinking about being alone or whatever after Burger has deserted her with her long stringy purse. I know. Let's talk about Samantha for a second because this was super interesting for Samantha, I thought,
43:19 because you really see a development and growth in her feelings for him, but also I feel like character-wise, like even compared to the whole Richard storyline, which I understand she was in love with whatever. But like, it wasn't, it didn't take her by surprise like this. I like that so much. I love that her being like, you know what, I'm going to help you. I'm going to, let me actually allow myself to put something of me
43:49 into this and not just take. Definitely, but that happens even before she sees how good he is. That's what I love, right? Like she's like, oh yeah, he's my boy toy right now and I'm going to help him. Then she sees him back and she's like, no, oh, this is more. Yeah. This is more than what I thought I was doing. And the audience gets this taste that he's actually, he is a really, like, we've suspected
44:08 that he's a special guy because of just the way that Jason played that part. Yeah. But to see him in that moment, that monologue, you're like, oh, this is a poet. This is someone who is a deep thinker in a deep feel. and he is not what we expected. It's so good. I didn't remember that part at all. All I remember is the naked part.
44:26 I had not remembered the acting part. He's great. And I love when they cut to each of us looking at him, it's so good. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's really interesting. I liked it a lot.
44:37 I don't remember that part. I just remembered sitting there dying for him. Let's talk about Miranda here a little bit. I don't know exactly how we got here because I'm out of order. But it's so interesting that now she's, just like, I'm in love with Steve. Now, she had pushed him out first, right? She's pushed him out so many times, right?
44:55 I mean, over and over again. It was like the relationship's over and every time they try. Oh, she tortures this guy. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why he's got another girlfriend. So he's got a girlfriend. He's like, look, I heard you, message received, you don't want to be with me.
45:06 I'm out. And now she's like the fifth time he's had to say that. Yes, yes. So he's really believing her. And now, and she's had his baby, right? Yes. But she's told him that he had, he did not have to have anything to do with it. She just felt actually, actually, she's,
45:19 didn't feel we all tell her that she has to tell him when she's pregnant so she does which is good good thing good thing she does and then he's like i want to do this i want to do that she's like no no you don't have to do anything he's like no i want to do stuff because he's a good guy of course as we know and but the thing that really made me laugh and i just want to know from a female perspective this because i watched two last night bear with me is this when does she does he this is the cupcake and he shows his abs and she's leaning over and they cut to her face like, oh. I don't think I saw that. Okay, okay, because it's such a-
45:53 Unless I was looking down or something. It's such a guy thing. Like to me. That makes no sense. Like you're not like, oh, his abs. I can't look at his abs. Yeah, I don't think that's ever happened to me. Me neither.
46:10 I might have done a double take at some point, but I've never been like, I've never felt like I needed to restrain myself. Right? Right? Right? I know. And also like if you're in love with someone, it's more to me, like what they're saying. Yeah. Or like the sweetness. Standing close. Right. Right. Right. Looking at them, not their abs. No. I mean, I can appreciate some abs. Right. In a different way, though. Not like I'm so in love with this person. And then I see his abs and it's making it really hard for me. No. No. No. I'm not wired that way. No, it was so bizarre. I do not think the Miranda's wired that way either, okay? Yeah, that was kind of a surprise. Strange, strange.
46:51 Yeah. Strange. And it just, I know intellectually what it took to get that shot, right? Like we had to have a close up on David Agammer's abs. We had to get Cynthia in the scene to, for some reason, bend over because he's like spilled something and then have a close up on her bending over, looking at the abs to play this moment. Oh, man, that's a lot of work. It's a lot of ab work. I know.
47:13 I know. It was bizarre. It was so bizarre. Like, I felt bad for her, but also... She's fully... How do you advise a friend who's coming to you and going, like, I'm still in love with him? And I want... But he's going to have cupcakes with his new girlfriend.
47:28 It's like, yeah, but you pushed him out so many times. Absolutely. I mean, I think, I don't know for sure, because as I said, I'm out of order and I don't know how we got here from the last time that I saw them, which was that she was just co-parenting with him, right? Yeah. But my feeling is whenever Miranda gets deep feelings, all of us treat her with kid gloves. Yeah, it's a big deal. Different. Yeah.
47:54 You know what I mean? We're like, we're just going to be nice. We're just going to be gentle. You know what I mean? Because if she's feeling vulnerable, that's a big deal for her, right? So that's what I took from how Carrie handles it. You know what I mean? But I do think Carrie also has the subtext of, you know, you put this guy through a lot.
48:12 But it's subtext. She doesn't like push it. Yeah. Just put the cupcakes down. Just go ahead. Get your things. Yes. Yes. Yes.
48:19 Because also it's so sad where she's like, I can't go to the play because I'm so upset. I'm like, what's happened to Miranda? I mean, I did have so many moments during this episode. I was like, well, we just, we're so confident in like the writing and the acting and the way that we're doing the show at this point. I think that like we're just as people are complicated, right? Yeah, that totally checks out. I think the people who come across as the hardest are covering up because they're so vulnerable and they feel so much. Right, right, right.
48:52 So that totally checks out to me. It's interesting that we, I feel like also tonally, this episode to me is interesting because it kind of has breath in it. Like more there's like, it used to be, and I do love this about our show early on where everything was like, do, do, do, do, do. I don't know how else to talk about it, but like the editing, everything was very tight, and the dialogue had to be delivered
49:19 in this very quick, tight way for the jokes to work and the ideas to kind of sizzle, right? But at this point, it's like we're trusting ourselves more, and there's, like, more breath in between things sometimes. Like, especially in the scene with Burger,
49:37 like, yes, she gets off that thing, motorcycle, and start shouting at him, right? But then there's like breath before he goes, you know. I loved, we experienced that on Montre Hill as well where we would start the first, the first season or so felt like it was a lot of that things happening. You got to move to the next thing happening so that people stay in their seats and watch the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But once we, once they started to trust us and let us breathe into the characters and give space in a scene
50:06 and let things take a little bit longer than they normally do, it felt so. so good as an actor to do that. And I feel like the episodes really benefit from that too. Yeah. Because people need time. That's real life. You need time to process things. It's true.
50:21 And the more you fall in love with a character as time goes on, you get deeper and deeper connected to these characters. You need time. Your emotions are connected to the characters and what happens to them. I agree. But this is a comedy, right? So it's interesting to me. And people have a lot of interesting feelings about the later seasons. Like some people love the later seasons.
50:38 Some people don't love the later seasons. Like I'm super curious now that I'm in it. Like I see, it's, it's, it's, the tone shifts. Yeah. It's interesting. I personally really like it, but I think I like it because, you know, it's us. I don't know how to put it like. I like it because it's also different.
50:57 And I love a show when I'm watching a show to take chances. You know what I'm saying? Like to not feel like, oh, okay, this was how we started. So we've got to stay right in this little mold. You know what I mean? Yeah, totally. I mean, if something doesn't. work. At least you tried. You can always change it up the next episode, too. That's true, but in our
51:15 world, I don't think we ever say that anything didn't work. I'm sure they did, but I can't think of what it is. You know what I'm trying to say? Like, like, I feel, and because this is HBO, right, they really trusted us. They really trusted themselves. Yeah. And, and they're for us, too. You know what I mean? It was awesome. It really was awesome. Really, really was awesome. I just saw was I watching our show I guess last night they have a new like HBO sizzle reel kind of a thing oh yeah they do things coming up yeah about how it's it's like a retrospective about how and it's like I'm sure I'm I'm reading a lot into this right now I'm totally just making this up I have no basis in reality for it but it basically is talking about I think it says it starts by saying
52:09 saying, I believe, for 50 years. And I'm like, 50 years, really? HBO has been there for 50 years. But you know the whole merger situation, right? Like the merger situation is at a dire, dire crossroads. I don't know when we air this, what will have happened. But like, it's ongoing, as we all know. And Warner Brothers is, you know, in the crosshairs of like so many different
52:29 agendas and it's so complicated. But HBO is part of Warner Brothers. And, you know, it's a precious, precious entity to me. and to, you know, anyone who has worked there, I believe. And many people who have just watched us, right? So it starts by saying for the last 50 years, it basically says we change television, right? You know, it's a commercial for ourselves, but it shows the Sopranos. It shows us.
52:53 It shows, you know, it was glorious. Yes, like I want to replay it in my mind. But I really was like, wow, do what I mean? Like, it's been incredible to be part of it. It's been just so incredible to be part of it. I mean, this is, yes. But you never would have known at the beginning. Never.
53:11 You never know. I know. You never know. And that's what's really amazing about life in general, I guess, but also our business, right? Like you're in something. You don't know what's going to happen. You just hope for the best. Is it going to end up on a shelf?
53:22 Am I going to be on the cutting room floor? You don't know. Yeah. It could be anything. It could be anything. Yeah. Any of the above, right? Super fascinating.
53:29 It is an adventure. It is an adventure. Thank you for joining us, Joe. Thank you for having me. This is really fun. It's really fun. You're a very, very amazing. inspiring person. Thank you. I really appreciate that and I love talking with you. I think you're so
53:42 interesting and smart. I'm not as interesting as you. I need to read your book. Your new book. I hope you do. Yes. The betrayal of Coro-Exford. I hope you enjoyed its Neo-Victorian suspense novel. With a beautiful painting on the front that she painted you guys. I'll do the audiobook. So if you're an audio book listener, which I am, I love audio books. Yeah. So I'll send you a copy of that too. Oh, that's really interesting. So you already recorded that. No, I'm recording in the next couple of weeks. Got it. But you yourself are recording your own fiction book. Did you do this for your autobiography or your memoir as well? I did. Yeah, I did it for the memory too. Cool. Was that hard? Um, no. And in fact, have you ever thought about writing a book? Do you or do you have, I have had the thought. Yeah. If you do, it's so fun to narrate because as an actor,
54:29 you can like get into the different characters. Do I want to, though? Well, I don't know. It's up to you. I found it to be fun. I just thought it took it as like an acting exercise. It was fun. Did it, was it very, I mean, I guess because you'd already written it, like, did it dredge the stuff up in a way that was helpful or not helpful? I think it was helpful. I think it was in the end being able to put, in memoir specifically, being able to put all that on paper. I think it probably does the same thing that writing in a journal accomplishes. We're getting it out of your body. And then now it's all in chronological order. It's not just like a spaghetti bowl in my brain of all these random memories that are connected somehow. Yeah.
55:09 Now it's like in a chronological order and I can close the book and put it on a shelf. Wow. Amazing. It feels really good. I don't know if you journal, but I think it probably does the same kind of thing. I have had times in my life that I journal, but I really don't like it. Oh, you don't? I don't like it.
55:22 I'm very fascinated by people who like it. What don't you like about it? I intellectually know that it's great, right? I can 100% see the benefits. I don't know if it's because I'm a single mother of two children. I went on location recently with Kevin Bacon. I loved him so much. Okay.
55:40 And he goes, oh, you know, I'm getting to the point where I'm missing home. I'm really missing home. And I'm like, oh, not me. I'm sleeping. You know, and he goes, really? And he goes, I miss my things. And I said, yeah, I mean, I know what you're saying. But when I'm in home, I never sit down.
55:55 Like, I'm tired. Yes. You know what I mean? You know, I don't think I realize that you were a single mother of two. I am. That is so impressive. Thank you. Truly.
56:05 It's great. And you're just doing everything yourself. I mean, I have some help, thank God. Yeah. That's why I'm here with you. Or my son would be back there. Asking us so many questions. So many.
56:18 Do you mean? So great. But yes. So it's a lot. So there's a lot of things that I used to do like reading fiction that I really haven't done that much up lately. You know what I mean? Yeah.
56:28 But, you know, there are phases of your life, right? And in this phase, I'm still really in it because he's eight, you know? Wow. So he's eight. She's 15. And she's, you know, 15 is pretty independent in so many ways, as you know. But eight is not, you know, eight is still, it's still full-time job. Intensive, intensive.
56:45 Like as a single mom, there's so many times when we think, like, okay, I've got the routine now. I've got, now I get their personality and where they're at and I've got it. And then all of a sudden, as soon as you feel like you get comfortable, I mean, this is what I experience anyway. No, no, they change. Totally. No, this is true. You're constantly on your toes. This is true.
57:01 Trying to stay up to date. This is 100%. Yes, yes. So it takes so much. It's true. And that's one thing I do love about social media, right? Like, you can see things on social media where they talk about the mental load. Yes.
57:12 Because the mental load, I think, is the hardest thing. Because even if you're not outwardly, like, getting their shoes or whatever the heck that they left and whatever. You're thinking like, okay, well, when we go back to school, do we want to keep the schedule that we have now? Or is he going to be too exhausted to go to basketball as much as he wants to go to basketball? Or should we do the reclleader? Or should we not do the reclaker? What's going to be better for a? You know, you're just like constantly.
57:35 Constantly, constantly, constantly, because there's no one to share the load. And I don't even know if you had a partner, if that partner would be sure. I have no idea, right? Yeah, I don't know either. I haven't either. Right, there you go. So it's not even necessarily just a single mother thing, right? It's just the mom.
57:52 The mom has a lot of responsibility, mental, emotional, and physical responsibility, I feel, right? I agree. Super interesting. You're so interesting. Thank you. I don't know. This was lovely. Thank you.
58:05 what I was doing, but I am. You know what? None of us would get into half the things we get into. It's so true. No, no one knows. No one knows. That's a good point. That's a good point. No, you just go, yes.
58:15 Totally. Well, you have the deep, like the deep. I do believe in, you know, like there's a deep, deep, deep level at which we're operating. And I do know for myself because I had to really choose motherhood, right? And I didn't know. I thought for a long time that I wasn't. I was like, no, no, no, no, no children for me.
58:30 Don't care about getting married. Don't care about children. And then all of a sudden one day I was like, oh, no, I think I think I I do. I do feel it's like on a deep level. It's a deep, like a spiritual level, really. Don't you think? Yeah. It was for me. Yeah. I knew I knew that was the right thing and where I belonged and what I, I knew I had a natural ability for motherhood. And just it's been a great, great joy of my life. Oh, that's good. I don't think I knew I had a natural ability. I like how you said that. But everyone around me knew that. They were like, no, no, you're going to be great. And I was like, I don't know. Interesting. You didn't feel it for yourself. I didn't. I felt scared. I felt scared, but that I needed to do it. I felt like I needed to do it.
59:12 You know, for myself, for my growth, for like I felt a call, like a calling kind of a situation. But I was really panicked because I'm a single child. I don't. Yeah. Are you an only child? Yes. Sorry. That's the word. Yes. Single child. I've lost my mind. I'm a single person now, but I was an only child. And I wasn't really around babies. I mean, I was, I was an aunt and I was an Auntie to my goddaughter, like a, you know, godmother, whatever. But like, more the fun.
59:39 I'm the fun, Auntie, right? Like, not the call me when they're sick. You know what I'm trying to say? Like, I didn't know, like, the stuff, right? Like, I was like, all the stuff. I don't know the stuff. I had to learn the stuff. Yeah, like, I took classes and stuff.
59:54 You know what I'm saying? And when you adopt, you have to anyway. Like, there's a lot of classes involved. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I did all the things. But it still doesn't prepare you, of course,
01:00:03 for a little baby. Ooh! Like the pictures of the day that I brought my daughter home, the first day that I brought my daughter home, my eyes are like saucers. Like the amount of like fear and adrenaline that I see in my own eyes.
01:00:19 And I mean I'm holding her correctly. I'm doing all the things correctly, but my eyes are just like, oh my gosh. You don't get exempt from that when you adopt because that happens when somebody, you know, they hand you the baby and they're like, see you later, good luck.
01:00:33 Totally. What am I supposed to do? It's true, but can I say this? My nanny of, I don't know how long we've had, Laura. She just, she's on maternity leave. She just had a baby. And she's British. And in England, they have a school you go to to learn to be a nanny.
01:00:48 It's a two-year, like school where they learn about sickness, about all the things, developmental thing. It's so impressive. Brilliant. Right? I know. So when she came and she also had had siblings, she was 24 when I met her, which I didn't realize I was doing a play there. So I was just like in desperate need of help, right? And she walked into my life. Thank, thank everyone for her. And now she's just had a baby. She is not
01:01:14 nervous. It's impressive. We need the class. I know. We all should. Maybe that should just be like mandatory for all people. Wouldn't that be amazing? It's just a childhood care class. How to take care of children. I know for men and women. Yeah. Yeah. Wouldn't that be great? Yes. Why don't we have that? I'll sign the campaign. Somebody started. it. Definitely. I mean, look, we probably have some other things we need to deal with before that, but it would be great. It would be great.
01:01:40 All right, we should stop talking because I'm going to go to areas that I should not go. Which are really fun, Joy. Thank you for joining us. I'm Melissa Jeltson, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police rode off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You never know who that devil is because he's wearing in disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform.
01:02:12 And you can get access to all episodes 100% ad-free with an I-Heart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for IHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Yon.
01:02:37 We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud,
01:03:11 and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart
01:03:26 Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. It's all just a joke. What is the value of these women? I'm Bridget Armstrong. Back with Season 2 of The podcast, Curse of Miss America. We're talking to participants, whistleblowers, and people who say Miss America didn't live up to their promises.
01:03:46 He looks at me and goes, you don't look like you suffered an eating disorder. I never received scholarship money to pay for my student loans. Maybe this is the meta question for the podcast. What is Miss America at this point? Listen to the Curse of Miss America on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. There are thousands of podcasts that can tell you how to better yourself.
01:04:11 Get Worse with Kyle Pruh is not one of those podcasts. So if you're interested in getting thinner, going to therapy, starting peptides, setting boundaries, taking supplements, making you're better getting closure, then I would humbly recommend other podcasts. If you're interested in blackmail, love bombing, cloning yourself, or getting revenge, then we've got a little something, something for a dastardly individual like you. Listen to Get Worse with Kyle Pru on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human
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