Race Play (w/ Danielle Perez, Solomon Georgio & Tien Tran)
00:00 Well, we have quite the panel of guests with me today. I'm very excited to get into it with them. But first, let me introduce them. I have with me in the studio an comedian, actress. She might have seen her in Overcompensating or The Night Agent. It is my good friend, Danielle Perez. Hello, welcome. We also have another comedian writer.
00:40 He wrote for shows like Survival of the Thickest. Please give it up for Solomon Giorgio. Hello. and one of my dearest and oldest friends in comedy from Wayback When she was on How I Met Your Father. She's another writer-comedian. It's Tian Tran, everybody.
00:56 Hello, everyone. How are we doing? How are we settling in right now? I'm just happy that it's cool in here. Like, both temperature-wise and also the vibes. The vibes. The vibes.
01:08 It's like, everyone just be cool. That's what I've really been my mantra for the last year. is like, can we be cool again? Like, no one is being cool. No one wants to be cool. No one wants to be cool, and it's really frustrating. I started smoking again because of that.
01:22 Thank God. Thank you. Get those tomogacchi's out of your mouth and kill yourself like a real man. I'll say. So today's, you know, we always have a loose theme that we try to adhere to.
01:35 And today, I've got with me a panel that is all, at the very least, double minorities. Oh! You know, some of us have a few more hats that we're wearing in the oppression Olympics. But we'll get into that a little later. But today, we wanted to talk a little bit about the intersection of where, you know, being intersectional.
01:57 Like, how does that affect our love lives, our dating lives, our relationships, et cetera? But before we get into it, just to warm us up a little bit, I would love to hear what's something someone else meant as an insult, a warning, or a low blow that you took as a compliment? Chan, do you have one? I do. I actually, okay, so I have been cleaning out my parents' house, helping them downsize, and I found my old yearbook from senior year 2005. And on the very first page is my, like, boyfriend at the time. He wrote a message. Underneath it was a mutual friend of ours who wrote, Hey, Tian, C. John wrote above.
02:34 He's gayer than you. Or he's almost as gay as you are. Whoa. Clot your team. He's almost as gay as you are, but no one can tell. And I was like, and obviously I was not out then. I was dating a boy named Volleyball John. And I saw that like literally two days ago.
02:57 And I was like, that's actually really powerful. To feel seen like that. Incredible. John is almost as gay as you are, but nobody can tell. She said, your lavender marriage is going to be beautiful. Oh my god. Do you know where he is now? Do I know where he is now?
03:15 The person who wrote it, his name is, oh. Oh, you can, yeah, call him out. Well, first name, Sean. But he, I believe, is a basketball, like a college basketball coach. Well, I'm sure. And my high school boyfriend did DM, he's very sweet. He did DM me like last year and was like, my girlfriend and I are in Vietnam. And I was like, great.
03:34 Oh. Just drop a pin. You don't have to send the DM like that. That's rude. Solomon, do you have one? I had to think about this, but I feel like when people do insult me and it's direct, I'm like, my thing is like when somebody tells me like, oh, you can't handle this, I'm always like, I don't want to.
03:54 That's never been, okay, like, when people challenge me, I'm like, please, you win. I've never been, you will never hurt my feelings that way. No, I know my limits. I've already given up. You can't hurt me. Yeah, it's impossible. When you've given up. up to the degree that we have, Solomon.
04:12 It is impossible to penetrate. It truly, it just doesn't make sense to try that hard. Yeah. Not in today's, in this economy? No. What are we trying? I've already hurt myself more than anyone can hurt. Yeah.
04:23 I did my 10,000 hours in life. I'm good. Listen, we've already made, we've accomplished so much in our short lives, far more than, you know, most people ever get to. I have a podcast, you know. This is, that's more than enough. Yeah, this is, I've peaked.
04:39 And Danielle, which do you have one for me? I do. I had to think about this. This is a tough one, yeah. Because people aren't usually that rude to my face. You know, I know they'll say it behind the back. Yeah. I prefer that, frankly.
04:53 Powers. But you're going to insult a woman in a wheelchair? You're going to say that to me? Whoa, check a big ball. But I thought about it. And it's like, you know, back when racial consciousness was perhaps less than what it is today, but like, you're so well-spoken. I used to think, like, I went to private school.
05:15 I was, like, usually one of, like, the few, like, black or brown kids in, like, those spaces. And it was, like, they meant it as a compliment, but it is so derogatory and so insulting. And I kind of used to really think it, like, oh, I'm exceptional. And it's like, maybe you're just trying to attach yourself to whiteness in a really bad way. Yeah. And it is, like, the intention is never, I just, they might think it is. but it's just never posth. No, it's never.
05:41 No. It's so condescending and it's like, oh, you almost belong. They might have said it. They might as well have said it like, you're one of the good ones. Yeah, fully, fully. It's what the subtext is there. My insult that I actually now, in hindsight, take it as a compliment. And it kind of did at the time is I was doing the side stage for the angry orchard.
06:03 You remember they used to have that big comedy tour? What was it called? But it was like literally Chappelle, Schumer, like all of the... Oh, wait out on the first. Fields. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember what it was called, but I was doing this side stage for this festival. It was a big deal.
06:16 It was early in my career, and we were in the parking lot on an inflatable stage. And the people, the other people on the lineup were, they have now a podcasting network of their own. They are all Manosphere adjacent. You know the name, but I'm not going to give them free press. But I went up, everyone was sort of bombing me because I cannot. stress this enough we were in a parking lot as the main event was inflatable stage and I'm like yeah I knew no one was in what you know that liquor
06:48 sponsorship so there was money involved yes yes yes yes we definitely we there was definitely like a big deal to me I I everyone was bombing I went up and did well okay and it was like it was very palpable the energy and that shifted when I went up and again early in my career and one of the main guys came up to me and he said, yeah, good set. You were the funniest woman on the show. And it was one of those things that, like, even in the moment, I was like, oh, it drives you fucking crazy that I am the one who crushed out of all of you.
07:27 And you are trying to, like, lessen the impact of my success by saying something sort of, you know, insulting about me being a woman or, like, because I'm gay, I'm more adjacent to you. to women, then, but the thing is, is even in that moment, I was like, but women are funny. Yeah. Across the board, I never laugh at men. And so I was just like, and it was like, it was such a moment of like, oh, you're admitting defeat in this moment. Because if you have to go there to try and pull me down, then it's just like, you lost. You fully lost.
08:03 You're, it's so self-evident that you bombed and I didn't. And yeah. And this was their audience, too. It was like a, it was literally like, it was like literally if the juggaloes weren't progressive on social politics. Like it was, that was the crowd. And yet I still did well. So fuck all of you guys. Great, great, great, great conversation.
08:26 So I want to dive right into it and just like talk, sort of level it like, lay it out to you guys. Just the big question, which is, you know, how has. being at the intersection of a lot of different marginalized identities. I mean, we'll just come out and say it. Danielle, you are a non-white queer woman who is disabled in a wheelchair. Solomon, you are a non-white queer man who... Very tall, glamise. Very tall, glamise.
08:56 I don't think that's a disability. And she and you're also a queer woman who is non-white. And you're also an immigrant woman. A child of immigrants. Child of immigrants. Child of immigrants. I'm directly, I came to this country. I remember it.
09:14 Yeah, you remember it. You were writing it. I know. You could go back. It is, I am sitting amongst the greats of guilt and power. Oh my God. Power. I'm out Rushmore.
09:28 And let's be clear. It's like so funny to me that like so many people believe that these marginalized identities are sort of a shield that like you can't. that you can't be made fun of, that you can get away with saying whatever you want. But let's be clear, that currency only works on Twitter, on social media. Like, yes, you can leverage it to shut down a conversation. But the credits don't transfer to real life.
09:52 Because let's look around for a second and see who's really in power. And it ain't anybody who's checking these boxes. And they barely translate to social media. There was a time, I think, when it was like the exchange rate was good for us. But it's certainly not the case. anymore since there's been a real bounce back, I think, about like, the, the, the, the, iciest word you could say is identity politics right now. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but how has these,
10:19 how is the intersection of these identities like sort of affected your dating life? And I'm going to start with you, she and I share, um, this deep, deep shame, which is that we're both married to white people. Yes. Um, and I guess I would like to know, like, I know how that has, has affected me as someone who is non-white being that close, you know, closely adjacent to a white person. But how is that affected the sort of course of your relationship? Has it affected the course of your relationship? Has it affected your marriage today? Like, in what way, if any?
10:53 I know. We're starting. Holy shit. We're going big at the end. Oh my gosh. This is like, this feels like grad school right now. I feel like we're getting our PhD. You very much are.
11:03 Oh, I would say I would, I would say it definitely affected my. dating life. Like, I dated across race, but I feel most of my girlfriends were white. And I think it was because of, like, growing up in a mostly white. I grew up in Erie, Pennsylvania. Large, like,
11:19 a really large white community. Yeah, eerily white. Truly, eerily white. I was, like, one of two Asian American kids. Same. And I think that really, growing up like that and, like, seeing media being depicted so white,
11:36 It is. It's hard not to like absorb that. Yeah. The sort of generalized idea of what beauty and attractiveness are are sort of ingrained into us at a young age across the board, no matter where you grow, that it is whiteness. Yes, there is a whiteness. And like, I also think my first sort of exposure to, like,
12:02 lesbian content was very white. The all word? The L word, absolutely obsessed with the L word. And how could you not be? And how could you not be so good? Kissing, fighting, fucking. Okay. And I think like in the Chicago dating scene, which you and I were both a part of.
12:22 We survived. We survived it. I felt like a lot of those, well, I think I found myself in a lot of spaces that were predominantly white. Yeah. And I felt like. Well, it's the most segregated major city in America. Oh, really? Yeah.
12:34 Hey, L.A. is here. too. I know, but let me be, like, you would be shocked going to Chicago because I remember when I moved from Chicago to New York, I came back to visit Chicago and I was on the Brown line, which is like, I think pretty well known on the north side to be a more affluent, it hits a lot of more affluent neighborhoods. And I was on that train and I looked around and I was the only non-white person on this public transportation in Chicago, in a major city.
13:00 And I was like, in New York, I never noticed that before. It sort of just washed over me. But in New York, that was just, that would never happen on the subway. You look around, it's, you know, Epcot. And in Chicago, that happens a lot. It happens a lot. And I also think I probably didn't, like, know this consciously, but I was, I'm sure I was comparing myself to, like,
13:20 the white beauty standards of the L word and, like, feeling less than. And, like, feeling, like, yeah. Like, so, like, I felt like I wasn't really getting hit on, really in the lesbian dating world when I was first, like, out in. That's so shocking to me. But now I feel like very confident. And like it takes a while to kind of like unlearn all of that. Yes, definitely.
13:46 That like programming, it's programming. How have you guys sort of dealt with that programming over the course of your lives developing? My family is Ethiopian, so we're arrogant. Yes. It is a, I was like, it is, I was like, my, we grew up feeling told that were beautiful and confident. So it's like, I just, I, so yeah, I, like, all the hangups I got was through American culture.
14:10 So I kind of, like, dispelling them wasn't as difficult for me as I see for myself other people. You weren't born into it either. You weren't born into the system of that celebrates that in a very specific way. Like my parents, like, my parents in, like, blackness of my parents was foreign because that's not, that wasn't the set, we were the default in. Love your joke about when you first, like, came to America and what you thought white people were. Oh, black ghosts. Yeah.
14:36 Like white being or black being the default, right? Yeah, that was just, that was the way we were raised. And that's the way, like, so like, like, the whole concept of, like, racism was something we had to learn as a family. Oh, wow. Like, we had to explain what the end word was to my parents. How did that go? Oh, they were like, oh, okay. It was like, we have a word for that too.
14:58 I'm like, no, that's where that's, that's, yeah, it's so, I guess for me, I never really had a confidence. issue in regards to my looks. I definitely had social anxiety just dealing with like the pressures of like moving within the gay community, but I don't, yeah, I'm, I'm very lucky. My parents No, that is. My parents' cockiness, like, let through. It's genetic for sure. Your parents were like, you're perfect and handsome. Oh, no, they didn't say that. Oh, okay. No, my parents were deeply mean and cruel, but it was never about our looks. My beautiful baby. You're like, get in line. It's amazing. You're all gorgeous. You're all gorgeous. But you're all fucking idiots.
15:36 I know, like, you are similar to me, like, chronically single, not, like, not necessarily Jonzing for... Well, I have a boyfriend now. Oh, you do. Yes, and he is white, unfortunately. Okay, and this is where we're going. Wow. This is a support group.
15:50 And he doesn't feel good about it. So, no, I always say mine is one of the ones who's like, I'm sorry. Yeah, my wife is similar. He apologizes a lot, and I kind of wish he could calm down. No, it is like, I am, it can be a bit much. when you, like, I don't need the apologies when it's just us at home, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you, exactly are you apologizing for anyways?
16:13 How long have you guys been together? Over a year and a half now? Oh, wow. How have I seen you so many times and this has not come up? He's sober and he's at home. We literally did family feud together, Solomon. In terms of history, have you dated a lot? Have you had a lot of boyfriends?
16:29 Yeah, no, I've had like two boyfriends. I've dated a lot. Yeah, like, we've all dated a lot. I'm very like, I'm very much a person like, if you're in my home, I need to be like, I need to know that you're going to be worthwhile. So I don't, I don't try that hard to get a boyfriend unless I know it's a decent person. Danielle, are you dating anyone right now? No, very single. When was the last time you dated somebody?
17:08 My God. Like, over a year ago, sure. Yeah. I mean, I hook up with people, Bill. Yes. I mean. No one was questioning that, okay? Listen, we're all hooked up.
17:22 Yeah, yeah. I'm not, well, I think for me, like, I don't want kids. My parents got divorced when I was, like, really young. I'm like, a child to divorce. I just, like, marriage has never been a goal of mine. So I'm kind of just like, I, if I want. There's no urgency. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:41 Yeah. I get that. Do you have a hard and fast rule about, like, dating people? that are outside of your experience? No, I mean, I'm, the times I've been on date with, like, out disabled people, I guess, right? So I went on a date with, like, a little person, and, I mean, he was just a bad hang, but, like, he's also using his little hand and a soup his salad on to his fork, and I'm like, I don't know if you need to be doing it. Like, I know other little people, and they don't be doing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:15 That's not a cultural, that's not of their culture by any means. I guess like for me, like it is so frustrating to like, I think we become the people who are like, sorry, sorry I'm dating a white person. And it's just like it's not helpful because my thing is, is like, I think there it's, and it's hard because you, no one knows your heart, no one knows your brain. But like I wasn't like, I didn't write down on my list of attributes that I wanted a partner that they had to be white. And in fact, I really saw myself ending up with a non-white person as sort of a blowback to the way I grew up as like a reaction to the way I grew up. But we're in the queer community, and especially as like, you know, at the very least double minorities, it is like when you find someone you love and who loves you back, like, I'm sorry, but I'm not going to avoid it just because of the optics of what it might look like to a stranger. I think that's more performative than anything. It's because, I mean, I feel like this oftentimes when I get booked on stand-up shows and it's like, we're a safe space.
19:21 It's all queer people and women and people of color. And it's like, I'm saying my jokes and it's like, oh, wow, you guys are just trying to tick off boxes to make yourselves feel good and like truly not even down to hear what I have to say. You know what I mean? Like you just assume that my politics are the way I speak, like they're going to align up perfectly. and it's like, I'm telling you my lived experience. Like you not wanting to hear it, that's actually, is not the antithesis of what we're doing here? I don't know.
19:51 I also feel bad about having a white boyfriend. I can't. See, I don't. I don't feel bad about having a white wife. Brilliant. Yeah. Brave. But I don't, I couldn't tell you.
20:02 But I think it's because, like, she is my person. Like, it feels safe and comfortable. I can be myself and it's, she happens. to be white as well. You're the only single one right now. Yeah, I'm single. Does this cross your mind ever? I don't want to deal with it.
20:19 Yeah. Like, I just, I'm opting out. I think especially because I'm physically disabled and oftentimes I'm reached out to, we need your voice and we need to hear you. And I'm like, talk to someone who actually works in disabled rights. Yeah, we're not. That's the thing. Like, that's actual civil rights, like legislation and work.
20:38 And there are plenty of people who are very well qualified. I tell pussy jokes. Like, let's be so for real about what I do and where I'm at. And that's what I want to do. Exactly. So, yeah, with dating, I think it's just I want to be free. I think of anything, the, I do hate it. And I'm just not even swiping.
20:59 I'm like, what if I met someone in real life crazy? No. She's wild for that. But now it's like the, oh, wow, yeah, I'm a fan. And I'm like, oh, get me out of here. Oh, you're funny. Yeah, I've seen your stuff. Yeah, I work at this development company.
21:15 I'm like, get me out of here. I know. And it's like, oh, my God, I'm like, don't look like this because I want you to like be attracted to my sense of humor. Right. Yeah. It's like, we're on field. Like, please be so for real right now. Get away.
21:28 No, no, that's one of the benefits of my boyfriend was when he met me. He didn't have no idea who I was. And that for me is like, perfect. That's all I need to know. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. And what does he feel about what you do now? He's fine.
21:39 Is he in the industry? He's sort of like he wants to be an intimacy coordinator one day. Oh! You got to have it on that. Let's go on. Okay, I love that. How does one do that? I don't know.
21:53 He's trying to figure that out. And he asked me a couple times, I'm like, I don't know. Honestly, I have a friend who is and... Yes. That'd be great. Yes, I would like to be happy about that. That channel for sure. I'm glad I came here today.
22:04 I know. See you guys later. Oh, I love when I get to witness. networking happening all at once. Do any of your families care about this by, by, like, in any way? I think the gay part threw them off. I think they're, the gay part. Yeah. So they're, they're, they're so primed and ready to accept anything at this point that isn't wild, wet and wild. Actually, the two people that I brought, like that my parents actually met were white and they were fine with it. Did they care? Yeah. They were like, wow, you're putting up with her? Do people ever,
22:37 who are outside of your, you know, identity signifiers ever bring it up in a way that is, like, has anyone ever used any of your, you know, checkboxes as like an icebreaker on a date or a conversation topic on a date? Oh, yeah. I mean, just right away. I mean, but not even on a date, just like getting coffee. So what happened? And it's like, I literally don't know your name. Yeah.
23:01 You are a stranger. Why do you think you're in time? But also let's run through the options, right? So either I was born this way or something happened. You want to hear that something happened story, but like, why do you feel entitled to that? Right. Like, I'm not a, oh, that's your stuff. But in the dating context, they always do it in a way like, I'm real cool.
23:23 I'm real regular. I'm not like other guys. Like, I get it. And it's like, no, you're just an asshole. Like, oh, I'm not afraid to say the things other ones. Like, no, you're a piece of shit. Yeah, you're fishing in the trauma pond. Yeah, it's fully.
23:34 The entitlement, I think, more than anything. Like, explain your presence. Like, yeah. And always, yeah, it's just kind of really wild where also, too, with that is like, I'm a really good person because I'm dating the cripple girl. Oh, yeah. The girl in a wheelchair, like, wow, look at me doing you a favor. And it's like, actually, you're so boring.
23:54 Yeah. You're not cool. Like, I'm in fact doing, I'm doing community service right now. For a long time, it would be like, okay, that date was just like, whatever, that guy's a loser, that person's a loser, I don't want to go on another date without fail. Six months later, hey, what's up? Like, they realize you couldn't find anyone cooler. Actually, I'm the one doing charity work, frankly.
24:30 Have you ever had any kind of discussion about the dynamics of your relationship with your white partner? Yeah, we have conversations here and there. He definitely does, like, check-ins. Like, is this fine? I'm like, yeah, no, it's fine. Like, I'm, it's, like, it's kind of weird because it's when people talk about, want to talk about like when talking about racism with your white partner especially it's like
24:51 it's not in the context of the situation happening so it just feels like like I'm trying to explain something but it's it's not here in front of us for me to show you right yeah no I the thing is is like he's my husband's really good about like not seeing me and what I find acceptable to be a permission from the entire group like that is the thing it's like lots of people love when they have like you know their friend and they're like is this okay and I'm always like well it's okay for me like I don't give a shit but like I cannot promise you because I do not speak for everyone in the group and this is me saying like yeah I don't care is not like a haul pass for you to say whatever
25:29 should you want to say because it's just like again we're individual people not you know a monolith which is like it's so crazy it's so boring to say that but it does need to be said like constantly it doesn't and it's such a in what you bring up is such an important distinction like the conversations that I have have with my wife about race, it does feel much more naturally flowing instead of like me being the spokes. Because like there's a world where like I've had friends make me feel like I am the spokesperson for X. And that is when you're like, I'm not qualified for this. First of all, not smart enough to do this. And also like, like you said, we are not a monolith. So I don't want to be like
26:11 speaking for all of Vietnamese Americans to my or Asian American identity to my wife. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we don't expect that of our, like, our white partners to do that. No. Well. I do. I do. And also, like, you guys expect your partners to season their food.
26:30 Yeah. That's what I hope for at the end of the day. Has anyone ever broached race play to you sexually? Yeah. Wait. I knew your answer to me yes because, of course, we're, you know, frequenting, you know, gay freak spaces. It's absolutely not every time.
26:47 I've been, it's, like, it's, like, it's, like, it's, especially the whole, like, they want a rape scene sort of situation where I'm like, what makes you think. Well, we just dove right in, huh? Like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, first of all, I'm a black person, I'm not going to sneak in to anyone's house with or with that. Oh my God, that's been on the table. That's, that's, that seems like a trap. Yeah, can you come through my window? I'm like, no. No.
27:14 No. No. No. You are not Melissa Joan Hart. You are not Clarissa explains at all. Like, this will not go over a while if they were seized. But like, it's never been like direct rate? Like, it's always like, oh, you're a thug and you're breaking into my place.
27:27 Oh, my God. And you looked at me and you thought thug? Some, it's so wild. Cushing you as thugs. Solomon. You're giving model U.N. That's what you're not, not thug. Some kinks should be shamed.
27:39 I did steal his watch, but that's because he asked me something to me. I got to say, like, I get asked about it a lot, too. and I'm always like, I do entertain it a little bit because I'm like, okay, what's the scenario? Because inevitably I'm like, if they want me to be like, you know, demure little geisha boy, I'm like,
27:59 hell no. But if it's like flipped a little bit, I was like, yeah, I mean, I'll step on your balls, you know, for the, you know, the people. But like, it's like, if it's like an expected setup, like you're the one you're describing, I'm like, no, I won't do that. I have had people be like, will you call me a slur? during the act of sex.
28:18 And it's like, we've done a too good job of making identity politics and being on our side of it seem like a fun, like, you know, the oppression is actually given us so much material and so much substance to our lives that you want to feel that while I'm inside of you. And it is crazy.
28:37 I mean, have you either one of you experiences? This guy asked me to speak Spanish while we were fucking and like talk to him. But I don't speak. good enough Spanish to do that. Was he a Spanish speaker? No,
28:52 he was this white, he was like this old white guy from the Bay, SF, tech money. We gotta be careful with that. It was in my early 20s. But,
29:00 yeah, but he was just like really wanted me to perform like spicy Latina. Oh my God. And I was like, and were you like, you're like,
29:08 a third grade, it's gonna sound like a third grade. Muudian, yeah. Moe bien. I was like, oh, puppy. Like,
29:14 it was just like the most like, I'm so excited Oh, so foiego, poppy So foie, so foie Um No I'm not saying that
29:30 Lesbian, the white lesbians are racist I want to make sure that we don't leave this and are like the white lesbians Right no, they're racist We know Okay No, I've never come across it But I'm sure it, I'm sure it has happened
29:44 Yeah, it exists It exists. It exists. It exists. And I just haven't gone there. Well, God, thank God you dodge that bullet. Hey, never say never. It could still happen.
29:58 You know, people change. There's a lot of surprises in marriage, I have to say. Oh, God. Some white people have an expiration date. You don't know. So, Solomon, your family left a refugee camp in Sudan for the Seattle suburb. when you were three. What did you actually absorb about love and marriage growing up in that house and how much of it shows up in the way you approach relationships now? This is a really good question. My parents have never said I love you to each other. I think I saw him kiss him once in my life. Is that cultural or is that just your parents? Oh, it's just my parents. Okay. Yeah, it's just my dad, like they're both cultural and who they are. They're both deeply and like I like there are two kids made while still sleeping in their bed, but they still never see them. Yeah, I always wonder about the mechanics of that because my parents were very similar.
30:46 I slept in separate bedrooms, never said I love you, never hugged her kissed. And I'm sort of like, well, I know two of you. You got two of them. You made two of them yourself, you know. But I literally think that's why they adopted me is because they weren't fucking anymore, but they wanted their kid. Oh, no. I think my parents did it in a very efficient once a week manner. Once a week even.
31:04 I definitely, I think I've definitely walked in on them. And it's, but it was very like. What a confusing dichotomy. It truly was. It's truly, it's so, like, I remember, like, my brother was the first one to say, I love you in the family. And he was 17 and I was 19. That is so funny. Most people are like, my brother was the first person to go to college and get a degree.
31:23 My brother was the first one to say, I love you. What an achievement. He was like 17. I was walking out of the room. He said, I love you. I'm like, okay. That is a feeling I also feel. Wow.
31:32 And how do you think that's spilled over into your relationship now? I think, well, right now I'm just kind of, we're still, I'm a very slow person in a relationship. Like, I need, everything needs to take time. And so, like, I'm getting there, but we're working on. Have you ever been accused of being withholding? Oh, no. There's no need to accuse me. I'm guilty.
31:56 Yeah, there is no trial. You're pleading out, babe. You're pleading out. Give me the plea deal. I just, yeah, I'm definitely withholding. I'm not as withholding as my parents, but I'm definitely, so, yeah, they have affected me. Yeah. How have your parents fucked you up in regards to dating?
32:27 Oh, my God. I mean, my parents were, I also, I didn't see them really hold hands until later in my, there was no like a PDA affection at all. And they fought a lot. Like they were, they were like good periods. But then we would have probably like once a week, like a big blow up. And it would be like a, my dad wouldn't talk to my mom or talk to us. He would like silent treatment himself like off to the side, which.
32:57 now fucked me up in the sense that like I have to when I get upset I need to not retreat into myself I mean like I've learned to not like go away and retreat into myself and like actually like take accountability and like that level of shame is like really intense but like I am I saw my parents and I was like I don't want that yeah yeah so I've really
33:23 really my wife and I are really trying to like communicate with each other in a different way. I totally, my parents, very similar situation, and I also respond to conflict within the relationship in a very similar way, which is retreating. Actually, sometimes physically retreating. Like, we had a fight last week, and I was like, I need to go for a drive
33:43 because I just need to, like, stop this argument, because I know I'm not in a headspace right now for this to turn out well. Literally got a block and a half away from my house, got in a car accident, totaled my car. No! Oh my gosh! This is why physically removing yourself from the situation is actually, it can fuck you in a really big way.
34:03 Drove a block and a half away from my house, went head on into another car, told my car. But I will say, life hack, this completely finished the argument. I called my husband and we were not fighting. I don't even remember what we were fighting about. Literally, yeah. I was like, actually, I need you to walk literally around the corner from our house because this is how. And it was, yeah. You're going to be the new couple's therapy.
34:30 You're just going to go to couples therapy. Just get in your car. Put your life at risk. Daniel, how are your parents fuck you up? Well, as you know, they are divorced. Congratulations. Thank you. No, but they got divorced when I was so young.
34:45 So I do remember them together, but I've always known them as my mom's house, my dad's house. My mom's dating a guy. My dad's dating a woman. And they would date people and then they had full lives. and then they may not date people. And it was like, oh, okay. Like the lack of dependency on another person, I think, especially with my mom and my dad just like, oh, but you can have a life and have a job and have friends and go out.
35:16 You know what I mean? Like the reluctance to, I guess, like have that nuclear family. Or not reluctance, but not having it and not being kind of like, And this is a standard. I mean, frankly, like, I grew up in LA. Like, everyone I knew had a mom's house and dad's house. Like, it was not in college and I was, like, meeting people. It's like, well, my parents, like, they might get divorced.
35:35 I'm like, your parents are still together? Like, what? I was like, and they like each other? In some way, you never really experienced the upside of what a healthy, happy relationship, like being together with someone would actually look like. And I didn't see all. I mean, it's like, obviously, like, my mom and dad would, like, oh, it's your mom's, like, your dad's, well, get annoyed.
35:51 But it's like, I did see them in relationships that I thought were, like, healthy and happy. like it's so wild actually so my dad's ex-girlfriend Gloria he dated her when I was like seven until I was in high school okay but then whatever they broke up blah blah blah
36:07 we used to go to this French restaurant in Echo Park like all the time my dad's office was in Echo Park I grew up in that bar they are closing this restaurant takes and and Gloria was there the night that we were there saying goodbye to the restaurant like a week before closed they are now dating
36:24 again. I just had dinner with them. And it's like Gloria and my dad, it's like 30 years later, they're like holding hands. And I'm like, lots has changed and so little has changed. Maybe people have grown, but it's like very cute. Does that, does that inspire you in any certain way? Like, seeing your dad come back to this person? Like, it's, there is no time limit. Like, I think for me, genuinely, it's like, I'm, I need to live my life and I need someone that fits and works in my And I think also too, like my mom frankly, like she was divorced, my grandmother. I didn't have a grandfather. Like I just, and it's like for her to be a woman born in the 20s from the Dominican Republic
37:07 immigrated to this country, divorced two times. Like you don't need no man, right? Or you like that idea of like you can do it on your own. Your parents made you better. They made me pardon to the idea of conflict. And it's like, oh, but you don't have to deal with it. And they actually don't go along with everything you want. You can just bounce.
37:28 Yeah, you are not making space for someone. You will find someone who fits in as your life currently. Yeah, that sounds good. That sounds really healthy. That sounds like a great way to live your life. You know what? I just want to hang out with you guys. I think there might be some, you know, mental health experts at home who would beg to differ.
37:48 And they're all writing us now. If you have a comment or a question for, you know, anything you've been, you know, anything you've heard today or just a general piece of relationship advice that you need answered that me and my guests can tackle. Leave us a voicemail at 213-379-9-8-51. That's 213-379-9-8-1.
38:08 Or you can email us at intimacy coordinator pod at gmail.com. We love screenshots. We love pictures. Feel free to share with any context you would like. And we have a listener email today. So let's help this person. Hi, Joel and guest, Latina, here. Thank God we have you. In a plus-sized body, find myself beautiful,
38:28 and have a great queer-inclusive artistic community, but I'm 60. I'd love physical companionship, but my community is full of 20 and 30-year-olds, and the apps are full of frauds. Are there age-appropriate men that understand pronouns, gender fluidity, et cetera, and where? I haven't found them.
38:45 How age-appropriate do I have to be? Also, I'm female-only-been with men, very limited experience, and now am selectively attracted to women, Thank you, horny but hopeful, full or less, depending on the day. So this is an interesting one. I will say right off the bat, I don't know where this woman is going to find progressive math. Men who have gone through the training who understand pronouns.
39:10 Yeah. Gen X, Progressive Man. That's a tall order. That is really tall order. I got to ask though, is field the place to be for that kind of thing? Because I've heard that seems to be sort of like, if you want to find a straighter, great man who like I you know has his pronouns in bio um I feel like that's playing being a BDSM daddy though if you're looking for like a straight or hetero kind of situation I want to know where
39:34 she's located yeah I would love to know that because I feel like a big city versus small city yeah well she says she's a part of a great queer inclusive artistic community that narrows it down yeah like Seattle Portland San Francisco you know maybe LA but that's Tucson Arizona so we don't know that's yeah that could be a small like a little A blue dot in a, yeah. I will say right off the other thing that I do feel very uncomplicated in answering and that I think you just touched on, which is fuck age appropriate at this point. That's what I was thinking.
40:08 Let me tell you, horny but hopeful, there is not a 60-year-old man on this planet who is thinking to himself, gosh, is 20 years old too young? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like there doesn't exist. And why should it exist for you? one that's respectful, he's not single. Yeah. No. It's like, yeah, and the thing is, it's like,
40:29 there is no time limit, I think. Like, obviously, you know, they should be of age. They should understand your life experience in some regard. But there are plenty of old souls out there, you know, and there are plenty of people who would enrich your life, even though they're a little bit younger. Now, you know, obviously that's not always reciprocated. You know, that's a very interesting, you know,
40:50 a difficult thing to navigate sometimes. I would put that out of your mind. Yeah. Yeah. I think dating younger or being open to dating younger, maybe the move and the vibe. Or not focusing so much on like having someone of the same age. Because these men are, especially older, they all think they deserve younger. Yeah.
41:08 Well, those guys might exist though. So I definitely, the apps are a nightmare. I don't think you'll find them there. It's just, for me, it's like, go to a meetup group of some sort. Yeah. I think like a hobby. Yeah. A passion.
41:20 Like the pottery class. Yeah. Look, bisexual men are in dance classes. They're in pottery classes. They're in a birdwatching group, something like... They're in a bike club. Like, there is. Join a fight club.
41:31 And I highly, I recommend a bisexual man that's openly bisexual. That's probably usually. Let's remember she is open to women as well. Oh, yes. At this stage. They're at the same place as pottery class. I guess I would just stop closing myself off. If you're a part of this great artistic community full of 20 and 30 year olds,
41:46 then like I think that there, it sounds like there might be a thing that's holding you back in the back of your mind, which is your age, from even, not even just talking about romantic relationships, but you're definitely thinking about the age gap when you're hanging out with these people. And it's like if you're a part of the community, then this shouldn't be something that is
42:05 driving you crazy too. Because it clearly doesn't seem to be affecting these people. Yeah. Yeah. They've welcomed you with open arms. And like, I would just say like continue to develop really close, really like deep relationships, platonically or whatever with these people that
42:21 your building community with. And the rest will sort of fall into place, I think. Yeah, no, that's true. The bigger community is it is essentially people put up dealers and find a man for you. I think also to find somebody for you. It out there that, like, yeah, I'm open to dating. I'm, you know, looking for a romantic partner. Like, just, like, kind of putting it out there and, like, having that word spread.
42:41 Let them do the word. Let them, right? I also feel like a lot of these, a lot of big cities now have, if you look up, like, queer and sapphic, like, Instagram party promoters, there are, a lot of like 30 plus parties. Hot flash. Yeah. There's hot flash here in LA.
42:58 There's old gold in Chicago. Wow. There are like 30 plus and 40 plus. Yeah. They still want to have fun and have a community and it's not as taboo anymore. And like, wait, what if we got to maybe have the 20s 30s experience we didn't get to have? Yeah.
43:14 Yeah. I had no idea that existed. Yes. Also, I think culturally, I think it's something that we need to get back to is matchmaking for your friends. Yes. I think we need to give back. I think if your friends are in like this app loop,
43:25 oh God. Let them give them help. Like help out in any way you can. I was match made. Really? Oh my gosh. I was kind of match made too. I mean, I was introduced.
43:34 I don't think they expected us to be anything, but they were definitely. Yeah. I was introduced to my husband by a mutual friend. And I will say, it seems like, you know, if they know you and have welcomed you, then chances are, pretty good.
43:49 They're probably going to know somebody. Yeah. might be a bit. You know? Maybe not someone who checks all of your boxes, but definitely someone close. So I would take all of this with a grain of salt and maybe, you know, you say the apps are full of frauds. Maybe you should try one. Yeah, go and get scammed.
44:12 Yeah, get scammed. See how it feels. Yeah. Well, this guy's, this has been so fun. I'm so glad that we all got in here and were able to talk about race, play together. Did not expect it. That is, I guess, going to be the theme of the episode when we put it up on Spotify. Have you seen slave playing?
44:33 I have, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that highly recommend. Shout out to Jeremy O'Harris. Please email and your thoughts on this topic. Well, I guess you don't need to since you wrote an entire play about it. Finally, this is a question I ask all of my guests before we leave. What is making you believe in love this week? It can be anything you've seen, experience, taste it.
44:53 Listen to, it can be as nebulous or as metaphysical as you want. Just something that really reminded you that love is out there. Madonna and Kylie doing a song together. That is such a good poll. Yeah. Oh, my God. That was a nice little wake-up call to the love of the world. No, it really is.
45:11 And it's like, it's platonic, but it's a little sapphic. It's like, you know, all, it's hitting a, it's checking a couple different boxes. I'm so surprised. It hasn't happened yet. Yeah. So excited. Oh, God. Yeah.
45:21 huge for me. Yeah. Breaking down barriers. That's huge for us. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I mean, you know. It's a huge for us. Daniel O'Chin. Do you have one? Oh my God. I'm like stumped about what's making me believe in love right now. Mine is for my wife. Yeah. Go for it. Okay. My dad passed away recently and we have to clean out the house.
45:41 Condolences. Condolences. What do you say? Condolences. Thank you. And my wife has literally been power cleaning my parents' garage. Wow. by pretty much by herself and had like 20 mosquito bites on her legs after being out there all day on Saturday I know when she came in and I was like
46:01 I love her now too Yeah I think we all do Cleaning up for me is the sweetest thing Yeah acts of service She's like going through like boxes that haven't been open in 10 years She's just like she's really I love her and she's the best
46:16 Wow Yeah she's really stepping up Great Danielle there's this woman I follow on TikTok I'm loving it already I know I'm already obsessed and
46:28 she she fosters kittens and she has these like ginger and white kittens called the Bridgerton kittens and they're named Anthony Eloise Daphne and Benedict
46:42 and the mom is Violet love and I watch every day she does a weight check on them And now they're all ready for adoption. Sounds like you're going to get a cat, Daniel. We're all leaving the nest. And it's like heartbreaking, but also like, wow, that's like so sweet.
47:01 Like they were abandoned and like you took them in and like help like just seeing like this is a video of them like literally two months ago. And now they're all grown and off to new adventures. That's amazing. Mine is like very similar to yours. Not about my partner, but I was upstate. New York this past weekend because it was my good friend Joel's 40th birthday and his
47:25 partner Justin, shout out to Justin. When I tell you, he planned meticulously and executed this weekend, like, unlike any group vacation I've ever been on. He was organizing like three different houses of people. There was a full on schedule. There were activities. There were things
47:41 the places we needed to be. He was corraling like truly like 23 gay men. Oh my God. Across the Hudson Valley. God bless that. And just like did it all without complaints or like seemingly effortlessly too. And it was just like so nice to see someone do that for their partner in a way that just wasn't, you know, for an audience. It was just out of simple like they love each other. And that's always nice to see that happen for people.
48:10 So I hope my husband's listening. I'm turning 40 soon. So I would like a trip. All right. That's been the pod today. Tian Tran, thank you so much for joining me. Where can the people find you? What would you like them to see or experience?
48:24 I mean, I'm just going to be around L.A. doing stand-up. You can follow me at Hank Tina for more info on that. Yes, I love that. Yeah, I'm Solomon Georgia across the board. I'm around. Yep. We're all around. Daniel Perez.
48:38 I too am around. At diva deluxe, noe, at the end. And, you know, watch this space. When does overcomplicated come out? Do you know? I don't know when season two comes out hopefully maybe in the fall, but maybe early next year. Well, you have some time to catch up on season one if you'd like to be ready for season two. Can't recommend it enough.
48:59 I'm Joel Kimbooster. This has been our podcast. Thank you to everybody behind the glass who helps put this show together. Thank you to Sirius. Thank you to Smartless. And thank you to all of you listening and to experience this podcast live in the studio today. Until next week, this has been Intimicity Coordinator. Bye-bye.
49:18 Thank you.
There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click any sentence in the transcript to leave one.