Bandsplain - SOUNDTRACK: 'Working Girl' With Amanda Dobbins

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

Amanda Dobbins joins Yasi to take on the Oscar-, Grammy-, and Golden Globe-winning soundtrack to 'Working Girl.' They trace Carly Simon’s path to penning “Let the River Run,” how the Eagles nearly provided the movie’s defining song instead, and the iconic sneakers-to-heels commuter transition. Plus: Who almost played the lead, how much did that apartment really cost, and gifts from Kansas. CREDITS:Host: Yasi Salek @yasisalekGuest: Amanda Dobbins @akdobbinsProducer: Rob SundermannEditor: Adrian BridgesAdditional Production Supervision: Justin SaylesTheme Song: Bethany Cosentino Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's with this band anyway? I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplain? Hello and welcome to Bansplaine. I am your host, Yasi Salek. This is usually a show where I invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist, but today we are in the midst of our ongoing 80s soundtracks series, and today's episode is about a little film and soundtrack.

called Working Girl. You guys, my guest today, she has a head for business and a body for sin. It's Amanda Dobbins. I didn't know how you were going to, you know, segue from, I usually invite an expert, but today I have this idiot. But I accept it. Yeah. Head for business and a body. That's true. I told myself when we met, we drank tequila. We should have tequila shots right now. Honestly, 11.30 a.m. Tequila shots? Not a bad idea. Amanda Dobbins. Thank you so much for joining me. It's such a thrill and an honor. obviously we have leaned in. Yes, thanks for having me.

Thanks for buying these glasses. So these are blue light cancelling? Blue light blocking. Blue light blocking. Okay. So I don't think you can notice it. You can a little bit. Yeah. It's a little bit, it's a little bit blurry.

This is my first blue light experience. Right. Or last yellow. Yes, that's true. Because I wear glasses for normal reasons or context. So I didn't really need to get into it. I did learn the last time I went to the optom. that the blue light blockers can affect your sense of color slightly, which I see. So she asked me,

she was like, do you work in the visual arts? And then I was like, well, I watch movies. Yeah. It's like, does that count? Sort of. And so then we didn't do blue light blockers on my glasses prescription. But these are nice. I do wear a blue light blocking glasses in the evening. Okay. When I play Zelda Breath of the Wild on my switch. Okay. Well, I think, you know, that life is about balance. Yes. Right. And so you're balancing one out with the other. I'm trying to not, you know, exasperate my nervous system while I'm fighting the monsters. I do that by not playing video games or, but I still look at the real real on my phone before bedtime. I know I'm not supposed to.

Most nights, I don't, but some nights, I'm like, oh, I forgot I wanted to search this. I've been breaking my phone, so I look at the real, real, like, 87 times a day because it's now the only available. I'm like, you find yourself, you're like, well, better check what's happened on the. letterboxed again. Like, let's open up Redfin because you're just like, I need to look at my phone, but I have been on the real real, like, an egregious amount. A good tip if you want to deflect from that is looking at Airbnb for future locations. Like, Airbnb as a social media scrolling situation, making lists, you know, like lots of places in New Mexico and also regions of Greece I've never heard of. Sure, totally. Corfu, a bit of Mallorca. I've heard of Corfu. No, no, no. You

haven't heard. This is like, and I've heard of the Pelopinians. But this is like left of the peloponnesus. I'm like, sure. Sure. All I want to say better stuff probably to be found there. The Odysseus didn't go there. I'm really honored to have you here. Thank you so much.

So far we're on topic. This show is never on topic. And that is a feature and not a bug. Should we talk a little bit about what working girl is about? Well, first should we talk about why you chose this sounds like. Yes. Because I opened it up. I said, what's in your heart?

Right. That is not dirty. dancing or Joanna had claimed it. And there was one other. A purple rain. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And Top Gun presumably, potentially, William Simmons will be doing. Wow. Oh, so he claimed that for me. I mean, listen, that's, them's the brakes, okay? But also we'll, we'll see. Right. When that transpires. So I threw out, Working Girl was my first instinct, I think, because, well, it was the 80s parameter. Yes. And then it has obviously the anthem Let the River Run

that is then used as the primary inspiration for the score. So when you said soundtrack, I'm technically thought of soundtrack because I thought of Let the River Run, which opens the movie, which is a performed, like, a pop song, it won the Oscar, it won the Golden Globe,

it won all... It is... Yeah, it counts for soundtrack. But it's soundtrack into score. And so I was thinking about all the movies where the theme, all the scenes where the theme is used, like, in different ways throughout the movie. Like when they're cleaning the, or they're not even cleaning the chandelier, they're just, you know, raising the chandelier in an automated way. And it's like the organ version of Lethar River.

Yeah. What is happening here? And she's like, they're raising the chandelier. Yeah. It's for cleaning. Yeah. I guess I, I guess you said soundtrack and I thought in my mind, like what came to my mind was soundtrack used a score. Right. Which I don't know if that counts, but it does count because we're doing it.

It's a bit of a free-for-all here. Yeah. And I think, you know, why wouldn't it count? Although I have shied away from doing purely score things because there's nothing to talk about. So this is a nice happy media. Right. And we are going to find things to talk about, even though ostensibly there are three songs on this soundtrack. With three absolute bangers.

Absolute bangers. And it's true. And there's plenty to talk about. So we're going to make it, we're going to make it immediate episode. Okay. And we're going to talk about Working Girl. Okay. Would you like to give the people a bit of a breakdown of what this film is about?

Yes. Well, if you haven't seen the 1988 film Working Girl, I guess stop listening and go watch it. And what a treat is waiting for you. This is a Cinderella story set in the world of 80s Wall Street finance yuppies. And Melanie Griffith plays a young woman as secretary and an aspiring. Titan of Industry from Staten Island, who takes the ferry over every day to Manhattan to the strains of Carly Simons Let the River Run, with her wearing her sneakers, with her high heels and her bag.

Probably the most enduring and iconic imagery of this film is the sneakers to the back. Right. Didn't they make a commercial for like Easy Spirit or something? I may be fully making this up. It just occurred to me that, like, that like. I hope so. I mean, you know, in 88 and Mike Nichols, I don't know how intense the tie-ins were. They would do that now. And should they ever attempt to remake this film, which they should not. Just remake Cinderella, you know? That's fine. Working girl Slot Times Lean in, Cheryl Samberg. Yeah. Well, so, I mean, so it stars Melanie Griffith. And then her nemesis boss is played by Sigourney Weaver. Her best friend is played by Joan Cusack. Amazing.

Her love interest is played by Harrison Ford, the hottest that Harrison Ford has ever been on film, according to me personally. And you are an expert in the field. I am. You know, many people will make the case for Witness when he's doing the Sam Cooke. It's good. And I get it. I get it. Yeah.

But he's really hot in this movie. He's really, really hot. And he also does the thing that not many male movie stars of his ilk do that I really appreciate, which is he is just there to be the charming love interest. Yeah, I mean, you could make the argument that he's the girl. Yes, he is the girl. He is the girl. Not to be a binary of gender, but you know what we're talking about. And this is a movie about women and three women were nominated for Academy Awards for this movie, which is pretty rare because most movies don't even feature that many women speaking, let alone in roles that could land them Oscars or Oscar nominations as the case maybe.

But so directed by Mike Nichols, who is one of my favorite directors. Yeah. I brought Mark Harris' biography here. You might have heard of a little film called The Graduate. Yeah, The Graduate, who's afraid of Virginia Woolf, Hartburn, Working Girl, the Birdcage. The list goes on. Just supremacy, honestly. What a fucking banger.

Written by Elaine May? Well, he had a comedy partnership with Elaine May for many years. Didn't she write the Birdcage movie adaptation? Let's find out right now. Yes. Good job. Wow. For some reason.

Which I thought was very cool. Yes, they had their... I mean, she's the coolest. Nichols in May. Well, we're going to get into that. I just want to point out there's one incredibly important performance that you forgot. Go ahead. And it is, of course, Alec Baldwin.

Yes, I did. Sure. As her shit-heel ex-boyfriend, who honestly is phenomenal in this film. He's very early Alec Baldwin, who's kind of a borderline unknown, right? like really hot. I think it's, you know, it's on up. He's on his up. And he's there to play the Staten Island boyfriend who appreciates her in one way,

but doesn't appreciate the full breadth of her ambition. Yes, he doesn't respect her mind. Alibaldon's one of those actors where there's such a distinction between young him and older him that you're almost like, I can't believe you ever looked like that. Not in a like, you look better. I mean, he's always been a handsome man. But it's like Harrison Ford you see and it's kind of always. the same Harrison Ford just sort of like...

But it's true. Following a little progression. Different haircut. Alan just looks borderline a different person. I mean, that is true. We've also at this point, it's age, right? It's 50 years and people age in different ways. And Harrison Ford is age into the Red Hulk.

This is so unrelated, but you know who looks so fucking good? Tell me. Richard Gear. He really does. I haven't seen the second season yet. I'm saving it for vacation. But, you know, I see the photos. He's filming the...

adaptation of that movie where he plays Philip Roth. Oh. Asymmetry. Asymmetry. So it's a Lisa Halliday book. And he is, and it's about, it's loosely based, or maybe not that loosely. I don't know. I wasn't there.

On Philip Roth's life story? No, it's about a young woman who has an affair, a romantic affair with a much older author who is supposed to be Philip Roth. And I think that did happen. And so now they're making a movie. of it, and he is playing the Philip Roth character. I looked it up. He's my father's age.

He's 76. He's doing really well. I mean, but he was, he's always been like very, you know, like model Armani, obviously. Totally. With the not American psycho, American jugalo of it all. And then. Speaking of great soundtrack. But also, like, his beauty is very marble, you know.

Yeah. He does look like a sculpture. Yeah. And I applaud whatever treatments he's had to keep things. Whatever he's doing, it looks very natural. And I think his doctor, my hat is off to him. Yeah. Or her.

You can be a doctor if you're a woman. And that's many ways. And that's one of them. And that's one of them. And also bands playing. And also bands playing. Exactly. You two can be a dumb bitch podcaster as a woman.

Let's set the scene briefly for 1988. So Amanda, as you know, as a card-carrying feminist. Sure. Prior to 1974, single women in the United States often had real trouble obtaining bank accounts and mortgages. Yeah? Not that it was never, I thought, I had to correct myself because I thought it was like, you couldn't have one. It was a law. But actually, it was at the discretion of the banks, and many people did have them, but the banks would often be like, we're not giving you a mortgage.

Yes, exactly. And the bank's ability to do that is one of the major reasons that they wanted the equal. rights amendment, as I understand it, which we didn't get. We didn't get. But we did get the 1974 Equal Credit Opportunity Act. Okay. In which, but I will say my beloved California, 1862, passed a law that all women. So everyone could have credit cards. Right. And bank accounts.

Anyways, all this to say, financial freedom and fluency for women in America was pretty fresh in the 80s, right? Like, you're not. Well, yes, for women, for sure. Like entering the workforce in such numbers, I might be totally saying, no, and I think, historical things. I think that's true and also kind of coincides both with just a new generation of women who are entering the workforce and like dual income families. And this, like, the professional woman starts in earnest in the 70s or 80s or in like broader numbers. I think 70s into the 80s culturally. And, you know, and coincides with like yuppie culture, which this is very much about as well.

So, yeah, I think that you're right. I think that this movie is maybe about financial freedom, but I think it's also just about the way that the attest character, and that's Mellea Griffith's character, she wants something more. You know, she has a larger ambition, and it is set in this Gordon Gecko, like, Wall Street. You know, Wall Street, I believe it's 1987. So many movies in the 80s are set. Exactly. Because, you know, it's the end of the Reagan era and, like, the Go-Go 80s.

Yeah. It was just interesting because I was trying to, like, be like, I was trying to, not because I can't help myself. I'm like, let's go back in math economics. Sure. Okay. And 88, women made 66 cents on the dollar to men. Yeah. We're only up to, like, I think, 88 now.

Is that right? 80s. Are we really? 81. 81 cents. we broke 80 as of last year. Okay. Cool.

What I did think was really interesting, though, is that the laborer force participation rate has not changed that much. In 88, it was 56.6 percent, and in 25, it was 57.3 percent of women who work. Okay. So actually not that many. I just imagine that so many more women must work than did in the 80s. But it's not true. it's barely 1% more. Isn't that interesting?

Then it's, so from now versus the 80s. Yeah, I guess that's true because everyone tried to have it all, and we found that the dream of that is... Also, I think COVID put it like a bit of a wrench. There's also like, there's no jobs, people overeducated. Anyways, we don't have to get into it. But in 88, only three to five. Is that professional? Like...

No, just jobs. Jobs. Oh, interesting. Because everyone else is doing... I did look up... Caregiving, which is the hardest job, but doesn't count in this little... situation. Unpaid national labor. That's physical labor, man.

I know. I just spent... I just spent a week with my cousin, Nikki. Hi, Nikki, if you're listening or watching, and helped her care for her gorgeous little two-year-old Leo. And I was like, yeah, you're braver than every troop that's ever existed. And I could not do this. I mean, it's just, it's cleaning. It's, you know, cooking. She was like a human Roomba. I was like, all day, you're like amazing. She was, she was a, And then being like such a good mom, being so like patient and calm, obsessed with her son who is like two. So getting frustrated and going to be like, go away, Yossi, go away.

And then me being like, you go away. Right. Yeah. Sometimes it worked actually who would laugh. I also do do that sometimes. Yeah. Anyways, all that to say, this is a different time, 88. And it makes sense that this film, several films like this about women will aspire.

for more. Baby boom is in this era, but different. And not just women, like people. Like, there's also, we watch The Secret of My Success. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is also, it's like about, you know, kind of corn-fed Kansas boy trying to break into the big, big, bad world of business. I think that was kind of a, that was a thing back then. Broadcast news from this era, yeah, 87 as well, which is, which is different, but is about a very career-driven woman who is trying to balance work and life. Yeah. And can she have it all?

I'm trying to, what's the, I mean, fatal attraction is 87, and that's always in my, this. Also in a way about an ambitious woman. It is, yeah. She's, you know, she's a book editor, another New York person, and it doesn't really, it doesn't work out. Yeah, I just, I think it's cool and interesting just given that, like, I was reading some stuff about the movie and that people were being like, we had not seen sexual harassment. Right. Portrayed on screen. the workplace. And also the sexual harassment in this movie is portrayed by Kevin Spacey,

which is just absolutely incredible foresight by director Mike Nichols. Really crazy. Who actually also put him in Harburn. I think that was his very first film. Yeah. But he, you know. Subway thief is who he played. Sure. I haven't seen that movie. You haven't seen Harburn? Oh, it's so great. And it's like, it's very maligned. And I don't think it was critically received at the time. So it's an adaptation of the seminal Nora Ephron book about a Romanocleff about her marriage and divorce from Carl Bernstein of the Washington Post of Watergate. And so it's the screenplays by Nora Ephron.

And then it stars Merrill Streep and Jack Nicholson. And it's wonderful. Heartburn the book is also like- How could it be bad? Screw out. Like screw working girl. Like please go read Heartburn. Okay. And it's great because so.

the main character Rachel is a recipe developer, so there are like recipes written in it, but like not in the book. Yeah, through the book. That's cool. In like a memoristic sort of way. And there's a key lime pie recipe that's pretty good. It's not as good as mine. But it's pivotal to the plot at the end of the.

Yeah. And then Harper in the movie has like an incredibly sexy scene where Merrill Street makes Carbonara for Jack Nicholson and they eat it in bed together. Okay. On my way. Yeah. when I get home. It's really good. Yeah.

Can't wait. And that's another, you know, Mike Nichols works with Merrill Streep several times. I didn't mention postcards from The Edge earlier, which comes after this. What a? A fucking everything. The book, the film. Mm-hmm.

Talk to her. Yeah. So Mike Nichols rules. I've also always just on what this movie's like big picture about. Sorry. Sorry, you know, to bring the brand crossover. I didn't mean to. But, you know, it's like,

Every time I say big picture, a cinephal gets a Blu-ray or whatever. So Mike Nichols was like a huge stage director and like Titan of Theater and then became like, you know, a classic movie director. But he was also an immigrant and he was like the king of New York Society. But the first shot of this movie is circling around the Empire, not the Empire State Building, the Statue of Liberty. and it is shown behind Tess, who is coming from Staten Island, so geographically that makes sense. But, like, it's not that subtle a metaphor about what it is like to come to America. Yeah, to try to break into a society that is not accepting of you. Yeah, and also that the portray of America is so capitalist-based makes a lot of sense.

Is, like, Russian and German-Jewish, I think I read. So it came to America with his family very early, obviously, you know, to avoid bad things. And, yeah, I had to break it. I'm sure you know because you read the book, but this, I've been thinking about it for a week, that he had an affliction when he was four years old that caused him to lose all of his hair, including his eyebrows. And for his entire life, he wore fake eyebrows and wigs. I didn't know that, and he was vulnerable about it.

Couldn't stop thinking about it. This is a great biography. You never know this. Yeah. I mean, I think he paid a, like, a lot of. out of care to it. He was, you know. Our friend Nicole Kidman could learn a thing or do, is all I'm saying. He was like, you know, an empathetic and very talented director who was also a man about town and very concerned with visual appearances and confidence, his own and others. I would too. I get it. I had no

eyebrow. Yeah. But anyway, that reading, which is not exactly like rocket science, because once again, the Statue of Liberty is front and center in about half of this movie. But it does kind of, it sets up Let the River Run and the interpretation of let the, you know. Right. Like in a way that there's a reason that that song has the lyrics that it has and then plays through the movie. Because we will talk about it, but it should be noted, obviously, that that song was written by Carly Simon explicitly for this film. Yes. Based on seeing this film.

Yes. It is, you know. Yeah. Made to order. Okay, so this was a Christmas film. Yeah. Cost $28 million to make. I mean, putting my show in fantasy out.

In the 80s. I think it was like, you know, this was a time when movie studios made movies featuring grown-ups speaking to each other, filmed in real places, and then put them out at Christmas. And people went to see them, and then they got nominated for Oscars. It made a lot of money. We used to be a country, et cetera. Yeah. Yeah. I think probably they spent a lot of.

money on Harrison Ford if I had to guess because he was very famous then. This is post Indiana Jones and Star Wars. Yeah. And he's arguably the most famous person in this film at that time. And So Grnie Weaver is also very big. Yeah. At this point. N2.

Yeah, and I think Aliens is before this. Yes, I think just before. And then she also is she... Is she nominated for a different Oscar this year, for a different film? Is she? Or maybe that's When is Gorillas in the Mist?

Girl's in the Mest is also 1988, yeah. Come on now. So she was nominated for both? I believe so. I think she gets supporting for this and actress for... Yeah, and she's up against Melanie Griffith. Yes, I'm correct. Thank you.

You know what? That's why you're that correct. So Harrison Ford, So Groni Weaver, and then Melanie Griffith, who... It's a rocky road. Right. Semi-esque known quantity, but had done something wild, which was her sort of redemption arc. And I read that her agent at the time, or manager, I can't remember the manager agent, basically begged, is it Jonathan Demi that did? Yeah.

I love that movie. Again, also phenomenal soundtrack. to show Mike Nichols the film because it hadn't come out yet so that he would cast Nani Griffith. Yeah, and he did, and that led to this. Also, to tie in the soundtrack for just one second, we talked about it made good money. It made $102 million worldwide.

But after Carly Simon won that Oscar for the song, spoiler, she won the Oscar Grammy and Golden Globe for the song, very popular song. The film's box office receipts rose 40%. Oh, April of 89. Well, yeah. So this, I mean, again, we used to be a country where then the Oscars would come out and all the movie. And the movie was still in theater.

Yes. And the people were also interested in the Oscars. So once the movie got a bunch of nominations, the people who hadn't seen it went to go see it. I can't wrap my mind around a movie being in the theaters for five months anymore. Like, what? I mean, Top Gun Maverick was. Oh, was it? I think so.

Maybe it was on and off. Honestly, I don't know how long the Odyssey is going to be in theaters. Maybe a long time. I'm trying to see other movies right now, and it's hard because the Odyssey is just cutting everything. Yeah, which, you know, get your money, I guess. I saw it in Kansas City, and there was a person in the theater that had an odor that was really accurate. Okay, yeah, and powerful.

Pungent. And I kind of was, like, grateful because I was like, wow, this is like a fourth dimension. It was sort of the Odyssey and 40X. Because you know those men smelled bad. Yeah. Well, I think everyone smelled bad. For sure. But then you get to like the Trojan horse and you know it smelled crazy in there.

Right. So it kind of added to my experience in a way. Yeah. Sorry, this is not a podcast about The Odyssey. If you are interested in a podcast about The Odyssey, there are several in the big picture feed. I did listen to both of them and they're really good. Thank you. Okay.

Let's talk about the making of this film. Okay. We're going to fill this time. You know, there's only three songs on the soundtrack. We're going to make it work. It all started with a woman wearing sneakers in real life. Kevin Wade, the screenwriter. He said, back then, I spent a lot of time on a bicycle riding around New York.

There was an abandoned roadway I would get on in the village and take down to Battery Park. I would see the Staten Island ferry coming over and those women in sneakers getting off and then stopping a change into dress shoes. That's how I discovered this story, a modern-day immigrant story, to your point, of a person who comes here not really speaking the language, not with the right clothes, not knowing the customs, but with smarts. It's the Horatio Alger story. I knew right away it was about a young woman. You obviously know who Horatio Alger is. I didn't. So he writes young adult novels about impoverished boys

and their rise from humble backgrounds, such as ragged dick. Yeah. Who amongst us has not experienced a ragged dick, is all I'm saying. It's true. Congratulations if you haven't. Are you familiar with that story? I don't know if I've read that one. Horatio Alger is one of those things where you get taught the reference.

before you get taught any of the actual literature. Maybe it was like those books were very popular at a time, and then no one really returns to them as works of great. I've not read any of them. Unless you're doing like 19th century American, you know, studies, which more power to you. So Kevin Wade, an ally, wrote this script, and he said, I remember very distinctly writing tests exactly as I would write a guy. I didn't change a thing.

I thought to myself, maybe the secret to this is don't make her a way. woman just make her a character. Kevin Wade said, what if women are people? Yeah, also. Powerful. What if a woman is also a person? And you know what? Kevin Wade, we say thank you. We say thank you. I'm just kidding. It's cool, but that really made me laugh. He was like, what if it was just like another person? And then he partnered with the producer Doug Wick, and they were like, let's go sell this. And guess what? Nobody wanted it. Yeah, sure. Yeah, no one else knew that women were also people. series were like, are you willing to tell me a woman is a person? Yeah.

And she's going to work in... The women have equal credit, but not equal rights, you know? So... The directors were like, this is a TV movie. And they were like, rude. And then Fox bought it. Yeah. And did you know that Demi Moore was originally attached to play the lead in this film?

I had heard that. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense time-wise. Do you feel as a lover and officiant of working girl that it would be as good... No. No. I don't feel that it would be as good. With respect to Demi Moore, who I think found the roles that were right for her.

Yeah. But Demi Moore is an interesting one because this movie is one of my favorite movies, and I've seen it a million times. But I didn't see it in theaters. I was too little. So it was not, it was like handed down to me as something special that I should see when I was ready. And DeMe More being attached to this makes sense because she is of a time period. She was successful. Totally.

And like a huge movie story. before I was following along. Like, I know about the Brat Pack, and I've seen St. Elmo's Fire, and, listen, ghost, like, very important text. One of the greatest films of my lifetime. Patrick Swayze forever and ever. I would erect a statue in his name,

the size of the Trojan Horse that's at the Universal Studios movie theater. I completely agree. And also, you know, I remember seeing that pottery scene. And maybe I did see that. It's 90, I think. So I would have been,

and I watched it and I was just like, what's going on in this pottery scene? I watched it with my parents and it once again, they had no rules about what we watched. And I was like, I'm interested. You know, I'm leaning, I'm leaning in, even though Cheryl Sandberg hasn't told me to yet.

So do me more, I have all, she, like, I feel like I inherited her, but she's not one of my people. Right. Right. So I don't really connect in the same way. And you just,

you can't change anything about this movie. It's perfect to me. Yeah. I love Demi Moore, but there's a quote I have later on Don, and I'll try to find it when we get there. But like, it's that Demi Moore is almost like too, too beautiful is not the right word. But there were a couple of instances they were talking about like this actress wouldn't make sense because she would have been married right away. Right, right, right, right. There's something more believable about, because Melangorff, obviously a great beauty as well, but there's something about her that's like scrappier.

Yeah. She has like the sense of that, like a little flawed in a way that works for this character. This character is a little bit flawed, you know? Right. And also, she's very beautiful. And she has been working like a fair amount in movies, but like in Brian De Palma's body double. You know, like in smaller parts, in parts where she's not the princess, she's not already, you know, America's sweetheart in the way that Demi Moore is. And you can't, like, on Demi Moore, Demi Moore in 1988. To have people be like, oh, yeah, sure. We, you know, we've never heard of this person, but she's going to make it. And we're rooting for her.

She's a great actress. I'm sure she could have pulled it off, but I think you're right. But it's more about audience associations. Yeah, totally. I guess something happened on Wall Street with Ivan Boski, who is the inspiration for Gordon Gecko. Sure. Yeah. The big insider training scandal.

And then that, they lost the director who was the one that was going to, Jim Bridges. Okay. Urban Cowboy. And he wanted to do something else. So that's when Mike Nichols came in to play, your beloved Michael Nichols. Yeah. Born Igor Mikhail Pachowski.

He's a great director of actors and movie stars and understands movie stars' powers, like, on their own and both to do things that surprise you, even though they are, you know, Harrison Ford is a known quantity. Right. Merrill Streep, it's like an extremely known quality. But he just, he is great at directing people talking and emotions. And this movie has like a lot of set pieces and a lot of fun. And I spent 45 minutes Googling the dress last night again. We can't find it anywhere. It's half a dress that she steals from Catherine's closet.

Yeah, that's $6,000. And it's not even leather in 1988. I'm like, what could that, it must have been couture. I guess so. Yeah. What would be six thousand? I'd like to drill down on Catherine's apartment at some point. But so he has all the other parts that make a great director, but the way that he works with actors and specifically women actors, which this is so evident in this movie.

It's $16,900 in today's money. I just want you to know. Okay. That's not like. That's not crazy. I mean, that's not what they're charge in for Couture at this point. No, that would be even more. It's like $100,000.

Oh, yeah. So I guess it's just a really nice Dior dress or something. Anyways, we can. Probably Chanel, right? Yeah, maybe. Blasey is like an off the rack. I'm not spent a lot of time. Me either.

I was thinking. Chanel boutique looking at dresses. I was thinking about going in Venice because there's like more available in Europe than there is here in the U.S. because of their weird, you know. What are you looking to buy? Well, nothing is the thing because I can't afford any of it. But maybe in Venice. are shared home, I can at least discover what the price of the dresses is.

Yeah, do a little reconning that back to us. A fun fact. Lauren, if you're listening, I'm sorry. I know we should know this. We should know how much of money. How much is a Chanel dress, Matt's, you, Blaser. Let's, I'm just Googling it right now. I mean, there's definitely, there's definitely like $16,000 like Salt Lauren. Okay, so there's something here on the website. Oh, this is a pretty dress that's listed at 14,000. There we go. Okay.

So, all right, you're ready to wear Blasie. The costume designer was like, I hope nobody notices that they're absolutely different sizes because Sigourney Weaver, I guess, is much taller. Much, much taller. And she was like, that dress would never have fit Sigourney Weaver. It would have been, like, a mini, tiny skirt on her. Right. Well, that's why it still has the tag.

That's right. Maybe it didn't fit her. Back to Mike Nichols. Yeah. Something really important for my purposes is that he was a music aficionado. Sure. Very important. He had, prior to entering the entertainment world as a comedic actor and performer, his first real thing was he was like a radio DJ on a WFMT in Chicago.

And he had a folk music program on Saturday night. It's called The Midnight Special. Yeah. I bring this up to say the man knows music. And actually, we'll get to it later, but he hand chose Simon and Garfunkel and the repertoire of music for the graduate, including having them change Mrs. Robinson into Mrs. Robinson because it was like Mrs. Van de Kamp or something. I didn't write, someone will correct me. So my man knows ball is what I'm saying. Yeah, a thousand percent. I mean, that was kind of like the Mike Nichols thing, just something like an immensely cultured dude. A big ball knower.

Yeah. Yeah. In all walks. Yeah. Okay. So. So you talked about it. He had been, you know, he had been a very, first an actor, a comedic actor, then a big theater director, and then... And the Elaine May, like Nichols and May, are sort of like a legendary 50s, I believe, comedy duo, that kind of launches them both into Hollywood. So the producer was like, we amazingly got word back that Mike Neills was interested in, I should fly to meet with him in Arkansas where he was shooting Biloxi Blues, also a good movie. He loved the script, being a jubes.

Jew from Germany coming here, being an immigrant, facing all kinds of barriers, yet wanting to have it all. He connected it from a very gut and primal place. Again, just like you said. Apparently, just do you know, Madonna was mentioned? For the soundtrack or for the... No, to play Tass Miguel. I mean, she could do all of the cheeky in office stuff incredibly well. Yeah. Her and Baldwin, like having an emotional... Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Not in her range. She would have been really great in Joan Cusack's role, but Joan Cusack is great. She's so great.

Yeah, I guess Mike Nichols had seen her on The Tonight Show and was like, there's something interesting about this woman. Yeah, also, once again, Mike Nichols, nose ball. Michelle Pfeiffer. Yeah. That was the one where they were like, I'm so sorry that she would have been married by 200 men by then, and that's so true. She said, they said, we needed an old-fashioned movie star.

Someone when they had glasses on, you believe they had a little anonymity, and as soon as they took them off, you saw they were a beauty. They were creating She's All That from First Principles. Sure. Yeah. We are the first principles when she's all that. No, right? That's what that whole movie is about.

Yeah. No, it is. It is. It is. It's the only time that's ever happened in cinema also. It's one time, one time only. Should we take a quick Melanie Griffith sidebar? Yeah.

I mean, I think you have to to talk about this movie. She had her ups and downs. They don't make stars like this. anymore with these kinds of backstories. Well, they don't. So as you guys may or may not know, Amanda obviously knows that her mother is tippy hedron, who was not an actor until her parents got divorced. She was a model.

And then after she had her, then was cast in the birds. Yeah. When she was 14 years old, Melanie Griffiths, she met Don Johnson on the set of a movie called The Herod Experiment with her mom. He was 22. And her mom was like, go right ahead. Yeah. You could date that man.

And it was a different time. Sure. And, you know, I think to be hedron has also been fairly forthcoming about her experiences in Hollywood. I mean, she's a Hitchcock star, you know? That's not like a parade of roses. I don't know if that's the most dangerous situation she put her daughter in because she actually, like, let a lion live in their house. So we'll get to that. But, I mean, it worked how great.

They were obviously great loves of each other's lives. Like, they got married when she was 18 for six months, divorced. Mm-hmm. She married someone else. Was it? It wasn't Antonio Banderas, yeah. She married some other guy. Okay.

I believe had a child with him. Sure. Divorced him and remarried Don Johnson. Okay. Had Dakota Johnson. Yeah. Who is an actress. Yes.

And I love the materialists. And is very beautiful. Very beautiful. The film, Roar, which I have not seen. Have you seen it? I don't. I don't think so. Roar is the one that Tippyhedron and her new stepfather, Noel Marshall, spent years making in which, which is why the lion lived in their house. Okay. They played animal keepers whose various wild animals turned on them. It's actually been noted to be one of the most dangerous films ever made. Okay, because of the lion? They had real animals, and actually Melanie Griffith was mulled by a lion on set and had to undergo facial reconstruction surgery. Okay. Well, they did a good job. She looks great. I'm sorry that that happened. I'm sorry that happened. I still, I mean, it's not, obviously everyone should be safe to humans and to animals, but I still am like, they used to be able to make movies with animals and now I have this CGI bullshit.

Not to bring it up again, but the Odyssey did feature several gorgeous real cats. Yeah. So that made me happy. Exactly. And. But I don't know whether any of them were living in Christopher Nolan's home. I don't think so. Also, my. favorite who's that girl? That's a real ass panther. Yeah. So Melanie Griffith, you said this earlier, but she was a child star and she basically had some pretty bad drinking and drug abuse issues. Yes. By this time. Yes. And she was sort of on a redemption arc doing something wild, like we said, and she said, they didn't even want to see me for the movie. My agent said, listen, I'm having a hard time getting you in. They wanted a bigger movie. I wasn't very much of a name, but I love this role, and I knew I could do it. My story is Tess's story. I don't know how.

Yeah, I don't know about that. But, you know. Okay, if you felt it. She clearly felt it. I mean, I guess in the sense that, like, she wasn't wanted in the room. Right. And she made it in the room anyway. In the sense that her mom is to be hedron.

Yes. You know, that's not exactly taking the Staten Island Ferry to work every day. Not really. Yeah. It's more living in a house with a line that's the thing about. Sure. Yeah. The casting director actually wanted. Alec Baldwin to play Jack Trainor.

Yeah. And that's what they told him he was doing, right? Right. And then didn't Nichols have to call him back and say, hey, sorry. Hey, actually. And then apparently it was a good sport about it. Yeah. For the last time in his life.

Did you read that Melanie Griffith then passed on the accidental tourists to do this? Which one is the accidental tourists? It's the one that Gina Davis won that was for. Oh, the Lawrence Kazan one? Yeah, but have you seen that movie? Nope. It's really, I think Melanieie Griffiths may. the correct decision. I'm happy Gina Davis

has an Oscar. Gina Davis is wonderful. You know, all things, including that movie, which otherwise is not memorable to me. How about that? I like that her agent put together that movie came to her and was like, look, whoever plays mural and Axel and Torres could win an Academy

Award, and whoever does working goal will be a star. And she, and Melodyrault was like, I want to be a star. Yeah, good job. And good job. Right. Except then she didn't get off the sauce. Yes. she was fined $75,000 from her paycheck because she showed up to set heavily intoxicated and could not do her lines coherently. And they used that money to reshoot those scenes.

Yeah. So there's a bit in the Nichols book. And she's also talked about it where she just did not have her shit together for this, for many parts of this movie. And that at some point, like Nichols really did sit her down and was like, listen. Get it together. Like you have to. We need you for the movie. And I, you know, varying accounts of how kind and supportive versus how direct and in front of people that was. Right.

But it makes a lot of sense, though, because I didn't read this until after I saw the movie again. And I was like, she's all drunk sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and she also just, she seems. She, you know, at some point, like her face, she looks very, very puffy. Yeah. And very, like, you know, worn down, which, you know, I guess that happens in the great game that is Wall Street.

But yeah, you can tell if you're watching. Joan Cusack, my queen. Coffee, tea, me. Lights up every scene. The makeup and hair artist was Meryl Streep's makeup artist. And she said he bleached the ends of her hair, so it looked burnt. And he also said, the teasing of your hair should only take as long as the ferry ride. So I'll only spend 20 minutes on it because that's what they're.

women would do. It's really very realism. Really great. Yeah. Other fun facts. Mike Nichols set Melanie Griffith up with a real investment banker named Liam Dalton to teach her about mergers and acquisitions. And she was like, I don't want to go hang out with some dork from Wall Street. And the man was gorgeous and sexy and they ended up having a very long relationship. Great. So that worked out. And as you said, Kevin Spacey's first real film role and he almost missed it because he was late. Yeah. And they were going to have Kevin Wade, the writer, who used to be an actor. play it, but he showed up. When people tell you who they are, believe them, you know?

Well, he didn't write his own part, but yes. Also, all over Platt is worth mentioning. Oh, that's great. One of her piggy boss from the beginning. And the topless vacuuming scene. Her idea. Her idea. Do you remember what music was playing during the topless vacuuming scene?

It's an iteration. And it's a iteration. It's more of like a string quartet, right? Yeah. No, I mean, I pretty much have this whole memorized. Which is why I was like, this is eligible, even though it's not an extensive soundtrack, because I can remember all the different variations on the theme. I'm happy to push the boundaries of what it means to be a soundtrack.

Should we talk a bit about the music now that we've told everybody about everything about the movie, which you should definitely go see. Carly Simon also wrote a song for Harper. Yeah. It was a hit. And it's called Nobody Does It. No. No, that's the bond song. Carly Simon Hartford.

Coming around again. It's called Coming Around Again. Sorry. Also, as you know, but fun fact for book lovers, her father is Simon of Simon and she's. Yeah. Have you, so she's written two memoirs? Yeah, I haven't read them. So one of them is like a real literary memoir about the first 20-something years of her career, you know, maybe longer.

And growing up and her marriage to James Taylor. Taylor. But you think the song is about you. Yeah. And all sorts of it. And it's really interesting, but it doesn't make it to Working Girl. The second movie that she, the second book that she wrote, maybe she's written children's books too, but the other memoir is it just like an incredibly deranged memoir about her late in life friendship with Jackie Kennedy or Jackie Onassis than as she was at the time. That sounds incredible.

That's the one I want to read. And it is, like, I do think they were friendly, but it's a very one. incited sort of, I mean, I think they were friends. Is this the original Rachel Cusk Natalie Portman book? Well, so it's not about Jackie. Like, it is, but it is all stream of consciousness. It's like, you know how we all have one friend where you don't really think that she's your friend or you want to impress her or at like everything you're doing, you're trying to

keep up? And hers was Jackie. Oh. Yeah. And then she just writes down the inner monologue and every single thing that she should have instead said to a therapist about. her friendship with Jackie and then publishes it. It's incredible, but it doesn't really mention a lot about Working Girl either that I could find when I skips through it last night.

Yeah. I think that she was just friendly with Mike Nichols because that's the kind of guy Mike Nichols was. Yeah, we said they dated briefly. Yeah. And obviously she had done another song for him, and so he returned to her. And she was, you know, she was quite a big pop star at this time. She had done a lot of other film songs, too. A movie called Soup for One, which I've never heard of or seen.

She did a song called Why for that. Yes. A movie called Love Child. Do you know about this film? No. Me neither, 1982. She did a song called Something called Something Called Something. I haven't seen it.

She did a song called Something Waits for You. Torchlight. Yeah. All the Love in the World. Okay. Nothing in common. Okay. If it wasn't love is a song.

Okay. And then she did a song for The Curseller. Roddy Kid part two. Listen. She's working. She's a working goal. Taylor Swift has also done a lot of songs for movies at this point. Yeah.

And I don't sit through the credits of most of them. Cash those checks. Or I guess she lends them out at this point. But she wrote the song for Toy Story 5 because she wants an Oscar. Oh, is the song good? I haven't seen a film. I didn't listen to it. Okay.

Oh, it's only at the end credits. Yeah. Which I don't really think counts. Doesn't count. It's got to be in the film. I completely agree with you. This is my longest running issue with original song, the Oscar. Don't just slap that over the credits.

Which is like what they do. And then they, you know, and it's just so Billy Elish can get like another Oscar instead of my beloved Duelipa who should have an Oscar for Dance the Night Away. She should have an Oscar, a Grammy, a Pulitzer Prize, a Nobel Prize, whatever, MacArthur Genius Grant. That's true. Give them all to Dula Lipa because she is the best pop star we have. I completely agree. I just want to live my life like her. I'm trying every day.

but this song, Let the River Run, which she wrote for Working Girl, is actually incorporated into the film. It's opening credits, but is it incorporated in the film? Well, no one performs it. It's not like. No, but I'm joking. It's in the film nine times. I made that up, but it's like at every turn, you're like, oh, is that? But it's like, it is, it is anemic.

Is that a techno version of Let the River Run? And it is specific to the text, if not, you know, perform. in the text of... It's exactly what should win. It's inspired by the film, so the lyrics reflect the themes of the film. Excuse me, I think that Travis Scott and James Lake would tell you that their Odyssey song was also inspired by the film. I didn't hear it. Okay.

They played at the end. I might have even had the credits going. Didn't even clock it. Okay. That was happening. So no disrespect to Travis Scott. Sure. But I don't want that to win.

Okay. No, you don't want James Blake to win. an Oscar? I don't, can you tell you something about me and James Blake? Is that I almost constantly confuse him with James Blunt and two very different people. James Blunt, you're beautiful.

Yeah. Oh, right. Yes. Sure. Sure. Really funny online. James Blake, I will give you... The boyfriend of Jamila Jamil. Still. I saw them at a New Year's Eve dinner

when I was in London. Okay. They happened to not we were dining, we're not dining together, but we saw them from across the room, which is when I was like, oh, James Blunt. And my friend was like, no, James Blake is a different person. I was like, oh, your beautiful is a great song. I will give you $200, Venmo, because I don't carry that kind of cash with me. If you can tell me, tell me the name of the song that Travis Scott and James Blake wrote for the Odyssey credits. Just guess. Okay. It is called. are you my dad? No. When I'm home. Just incredible incredible imagination.

You know, really, really using, interpreting the text and casting a wider let, just like Carly Simon. I feel it's like a bit disrespectful to Ludwig Van Gorensen and to like slap that on the end. Anyways, whatever, I'm sure it's a great song.

I haven't heard it. Carly Simon, however, a real great song. She said that the lyrics for this song were inspired by the jungle that is Wall Street. It reminds me a little bit of the CNN workshop

out there and Santa's Little Helpers. And I wanted to write a jungle hand. This is what her, all of her, the first memoir is more disciplined.

The Jackie memoir is just that. I can't, I'm gonna, I need to read it. I was like, she has like a breakdown and takes a valium

in the bathroom of cafe, I can't remember whether it's Desartes or Cafe Luxembourg in, in York on the Upper West

while she's waiting for Jackie to show up to a lunch that she thinks Jackie's not going. And she's just like staring in the mirror. Spiraling. It's incredible. Keep going. We'll be ordering this book as soon as we're done. She said, and I wanted to write a jungle him. So I consulted Walt Whitman, who I considered her to be the foremost poet on New York City and got, she didn't actually speak to Walt Whitman.

Right. She said that she went back to the text. Sure. He also, you know, he was a bridge away from Manhattan. Sure. As opposed to a fairy. Sure. She said, I sat down on the piano, I played some chords.

It sounded like a hymn, and I imagined a lot of wild native drums from the old Dutch pioneers. He took a ferry, of course. So at that time. Yes. From Brooklyn. Right. So it connects. It's legit.

It connects. I didn't know that. Okay. I'm not. We need C.R.'s history corner in here. Did the Dutch pioneers play wild native drums? Is that a thing? I'm sure.

I don't. I would say that we're venturing, you know, into the territory of cultural appropriation and or imagination. Whatever it is, it worked, babe. Whatever you were imagining, Santa's little helpers, Dutch native drums, it all worked. She said, I saw the vast, wonderful skyscape of New York, the silver cities rise, the morning lights, the streets that led them, and sirens call them on with a song. Yeah, once again, Odyssey. Everything leads back to all roads lay back to Rome, and by Rome, I mean Greece. Which they based on Rome.

It's okay. Yeah. I mean, they based on... Rome was based on Greece, so it's okay. Correct. And Romans consider themselves the descendants of Troy, right? Of Trojans. Do they?

I thought I read that. Okay. That's not... There's been like a non-stop Odyssey takes online for like a week and I'm feeling like unwell from it. And I'm like, I actually need a bit of a break. I'm pretty sure that... I mean, they're not Greek. They're different, you know, so maybe they want to pull from the Trojans.

But, you know, their epic poem, De Anniad, is told in the style of wars, is an attempt for them to recreate the Elliott and the Odyssey. Right. So to be like, this is our version. Like, where, like, the next civilization. I just like, sometimes I log on and I'm like, didn't realize you were all fucking Homeric scholars this whole time. Yeah. I don't know, you all were such fucking classicists. I know you were.

And I don't really remember anything. You're the only one. It's a great joke to like take me, like, anywhere where there's Latin inscription and then be like a banded translated. It's Zach's favorite thing to do. And then he's like, and name a jawbreaker song. You could do that. No, I can't.

We'll work on that. We'll work all that together. Apparently, though, the first cut of the film, they watched it. It was 30 minutes longer. Wait, review of the playlist, Wife Repeller, right now. Go. That's like, I was like, wife repeller. Yossie Honeypot trap.

These are my, and this is why I'm unmarried. He was, well, here's the other thing is that obviously it wasn't, I like some of, I like many of those songs too. And I was like, what's wrong with you? That's when he got really rad. That was his private space. He just like, get the fuck out of here. Him and MJ Lendrim and have a relationship that you're not part of. Okay.

It's true. It's true, and I need to respect it. You guys really should put on some wife a propeller. playlist. The audience of Bansplaine will be like, I know, but he's going to be so mad because he's like, he doesn't like it when you bring it up. Yeah. I like, I asked permission to, to write that blog post. Yeah. And he was like, okay, but only because he's written about me so many times that he can't, he couldn't say anything. We're in a safe space here because once again, I must point out that he doesn't listen to, yeah, famously. Okay, so they, they, they screen this film. It's

really long. Um, and all, and they were like, Carly Simon's score is not working. Yeah. And they were like, you know what we're going to use instead? An Eagles song. Can you imagine? Witchie woman. Can you imagine? First of all. Like this is...

First of all, it's called Working Girl. Yeah. And then you're going to stick Don Henley ass in there. Singing about witchy woman? How dare? Doing Stevie Nix cosplay upon my beautiful movie. Can you imagine how bad this movie would be? Without let the river run and it's many associated variations that score the film.

And no disrespect to the Eagles who I think do get a lot of respect. I think they have some jams. But keep Don Henley out of my working role movie. I mean, I just am imagining him crewing like, ooh, as she's taking the subway. What? I'm not the sub. Well, the subway, but the ferry. The fairy, yeah.

Yeah. It needed to be. When I looked over, I watched it. with my cousin as I was previously in Kansas City. And the look of rapture upon her face, when the song is playing, she's having a religious experience. But listen, first of all, just as like a lights out opener to a movie, you're not going to get a better lead than those drums,

even if they're not culturally specific. It is bizarre when you watch it because you're like, why am I watching this white lady on a Staten Island fairy? And it's like, yeah. Yeah, but no, it's really, really exciting. and then the choir comes on full tilt. It's just like it announces itself. It holds nothing back.

It's like this is, you know, the Great American novel right here. And we're all, you know, this is before I'm the king of the world at the front of the ship, you know? Oh, sure. But it has that energy. Yeah. So Carly put a whole. How long do I have to keep going like this until you're like, yes, I know what? You've seen Titanic.

I saw it in the theater. Okay. Do do do do do do do loo do. It's really. I'll defend that movie until the death. Carly Simon said the movie was not accepted by my record company. Clive Davis didn't like it. The movie or the...

The movie, before when she was like going to do it. But she read the script and she liked it. So she fought for it. All right. Earlier she said Walt Whitman, but then she also said Finnegan's Wake was an inspiration because the first word in James Joyce's Finnegan's Wake is Do you know what the first word is? I don't.

River Run. Oh, sure. I did know that. Yeah. Yeah. And so then she was like... And so then River Run pops up in various things and it's an allusion to fit against wake, but I Amanda Dobbins always think that it's an allusion to working girl.

To working girl. It's a signifier. It's not mean, you know? Right. Yeah. All right. Let's get into the whole soundtrack then, even though this is most of it. And I think we've done a good job.

It was a successful soundtrack on the back of... River Run. Sorry, Let the River Run because it won all those awards. It was not a blockbuster album, such as Dirty Dancing or Top Gun. Well, sure, yeah, because it had two songs, other songs. Yeah, two other songs. But, you know, it did okay. I think it's interesting that Let the River Run eventually came to stand in as a thing about 9-11. Did you know about this? I did read about this. The post office used it as their like commercial song post 9-11. Well, because...

And then she, Carly Stein, performed it at the September 11th Memorial at Ground Zero in 2009. I mean, that's not how I would have programmed it. If you were programming 9-11 Cella, who would be the headliner? Oh, my God. It's not funny, but 9-11 Cella. You know, it's just... not how I would do it. You would hire James Blake and Travis Scott to sing to sing when I'm home when I'm home. I guess that the twin towers are, you know, in the backdrop and in the music video.

It's true. They can be seen from the ferry. I guess it's like the phrases Silver Cities rise and they're thinking about being the Twin Towers. And it's like, and it's like reclaiming that space and it's like, you know. Yeah. And they did build it. It's an uplifting him. They built new offices and new towers there. New Jerusalem. Sure. Yeah. I get it. Apparently, people say it is an allusion to William Blake.

This is really in your will house. Although Carly Simon said, because William Blake, that's religious. She said, no. The poem of William Blake, in case you guys were wondering, Yossi's Poetry Corner, it's called And Did Those Feet in Ancient Time. It's the preface to his epic Milton. The Tiger is the William Blake poem that I was taught. And so I was Googling lion.

Not many people. I was more in a William Blake Lyon. More in a Melanie Griffith sort of displaced. I'm not going to read it, but you can, you know, and did those feet in ancient time walk upon England's Mountain Green and was the Holy Lamb of God, etc. Do you know what other film this song is featured in? Let the River Run? That's right. Do I want to know?

I don't know that you'll ever guess this. I don't think I know. Unless you've seen it, which you probably. Maybe you have. You've seen a lot of films. Yeah, but I would remember if they were using Let the River Run. Remember, I got mad when the Sophia Coppola Mark Jacobs' Doc used the I'll try anything once demo again after using it in somewhere. Yes, you were quite upset. I was like, you can't reuse your own. Honestly, fairly. Like, I had a nice time of that movie. I think it's okay if you're referencing yourself, but not if you're just like, but that was. Here's a needle drop again.

Yeah, I like this song. Yeah. No, it is the 2000. It's actually featured twice in this film. It is the 2004 film Little Black. Black Book, starring Brittany Murphy and Ron Livingston. Haven't seen that one. Yeah, it's not good. And in the film, Brittany Murphy is a massive Carly Simon fan. And actually, Carly Simon shows up herself in the end of the film for a cameo. That's the only other film that let the river run is it. Okay.

Just so you know. Holly Hunter is in this? Yeah. Wow, Julia Nickleson, Kathy Bates, man. A lot of people have made choices. We, listen, sometimes you win. I love all these actors. It's just not a good movie.

Right. Okay. Also, can I just read you the list of so Little Black Book opened at number five. at the North American box office on its opening weekend behind collateral, the village, the Bourne's supremacy,

and the Manchurian candidate remake. Honestly, we used to be a proper. We used to be a country, etc. Yeah. Also, one last place it was used. The closing credits of season 31, episode two of The Simpsons.

Go Bigger Go Homer. Sure. In which Homer inspires a 35-year-old millennial who idolizes him to start his own business. Okay. Which leads the mob to chase them. That is very funny.

Yeah. That was pretty funny. I like that they were like, we have all the money in the world. And what would be really funny is if we end this episode of The Simpsons with Let the River Run. They're good at what they do at The Simpsons. Again, I'm not going to, I don't, I mean, unless you have a lot to say about the instrumental songs that are on here that are not let the river run. But they're like parts of the, they lead into it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. The scar and. Right. No. I mean, I think that they did a nice job with the score. There's a song called The Man That Got Away. by Rob Muncie.

Okay. It's a torch song. I had to look up what that meant. Yeah. It's like a song sent to a lover. Yeah. Like a pining song. Someone who went away.

This song was written for the 1954 version of A Star is Born. Yeah, that Judy Garland sings it. And that's, if you've never seen that scene from that, A Star is Born, it's one of the great film performances. It's like, it's really, really amazing. You can just watch that on YouTube. I like that As Star is Born.

Well, they put this. song on the soundtrack. And I guess in the film, but I don't remember it. Probably because I wouldn't have clocked it. I mean, is it like, is she watching something? I don't remember her ever watching anything. Well, when she's, she listens to the dictaphone while she's on the, the bike. But like, maybe there's something on at some point.

Or maybe Joan Cusack is watching something. It's definitely not a meaningful part of it. Yeah, yeah. You know what is a meaningful part of the film? Lady in Red. Lady and Red. is dancing with me. Cheek to cheek.

Just... What a fucking tune. Incredible. What a goddamn banger. I just wrote in my notes. Let's fucking go. Yeah. So it's very funny that all of the songs

that aren't let the river run are featured in one scene in Staten Island where it's like, you know, the Manhattan people are too busy to be getting down and listening to music. But in Staten Island, they know how to party.

In the Satin Island, we're so excited, and we just can't hide it. And also Lady and Red is dancing with me cheek to cheek. This song is an absolute binger. It came out in 86. I just want to point out that this song was written by Christa Berg for his wife. That's beautiful. He used to come watch him perform at his parents' hotel. Okay.

That's beautiful. I hardly know this beauty by my son. Where are you on Red as a little? I can't wear it, really. I've been trying. Sure. I mean, there are many different reds, right? Yeah. I'd like to be a lady in red. Yeah. But I've not gotten there. Yeah. And you have to find the right one. And anything else can, is Nancy Reagan so fast? Speaking of this era. Your skin tone, I think lends itself better to red than mine does. Certain reds. Okay. Like, are you more of a blue red or a corally red? Orangy red. I think I'm more of an orangey red. I think I'm more of a orangey red. I think I'm more of a blue red. blue-red. Yeah. And in general, I think I'm not supposed to wear blue, but it's all I wear. Why? It looks great on you. Well, I think it's like a cooler color, you know, and I'm supposed to do warm tones, I think. Got it. Got it. But they'll never take my beloved navy away from me.

You know. I can't picture you without your navy blue. I was in Toronto when I went vintage shopping. I was wearing like four different shades of blue, and then obviously I bought a blue dress. And the people at the store. We're like, oh, I see you found your color. And I was like, yeah. What a testament to our friendship that I actually hate Navy Blue and not on other people, love it. On myself, cannot abide by it. I do not own one item of Navy Blue clothing. And whenever I have bought it and tried to put it on, I'm upset at myself and I put it away. You just got to know your colors. And maybe it's not even, like, have you gotten your colors done? No. I haven't either because I don't want to be told what to do ever. But I can sense the general picture.

Yeah. And still, if you love something, you can make it work for you. Don't let other people put you in a box. It's so true. Nobody puts Amanda in the corner. That's really true. Nobody puts Amanda in pink either. I did buy one pink last recently. But again, you have to get the right pink. Yeah. I'm a little rosy-cheeked for pink, or rosycheeked for pink, but we're working on it. Okay. I just want to point out Lady in Red, I think was like, I have to assume cost a lot of money and has been. in multiple movies. Okay. Please name them.

American Psycho. Yeah, that I remember. Which is very funny. Actually, this is the only movie that I could find that it's used in like a really naturalistic. Like, they're at the bar in Staten Island, and it's like she's reconnecting with Alec Baldwin. Right. It's played for comedy in every other film. Yeah.

Because apparently it was kind of a joke. This song. I mean, I understand why it would be a joke if it were out of the context of working. girl. I mean, it's a banger, but also it's just like whaling out of your, you know, radio in 1985. I grew up hearing this song on the radio on Coast 101 3.5, which was the station my mom favorite, which was sort of easy listening. And I think it's a beautiful song, and I think if people are heartless. I think it's beautiful, too. I think, you know, it probably soundtracked more wedding first dances than you want. You want.

He is not wearing red. The lady is wearing white. Probably if she's having a first dance at a wedding. But it's sort of... Red is a horse color. Is what some people say. Do you think it was written with wedding first dance in mind? Like when Ed Shearin is writing his songs,

is he writing them with wedding first dance in mind? I was thinking about this recently. No, but I think to bring it back, my guy James Blunt is. Sure. Yeah. He's making money handover. In some ways, I was sitting, like, I just needed to reach my hand out to you for so long.

See, this is my red, but this is bordering on orange. That's corally red. It's very nice. Thank you. I like it as well. Dasel dry red chili. If you know what you're doing, if you know that you're writing a wedding dance song, then I'm okay with it. I think that this is not, there's not a lot of self-knowledge.

I think Christa Berg was writing about his beautiful wife. Yeah. And how he first saw her as she was supporting him while he was singing at a hotel. Sure. And. Well, do you think she was a blue red or a coral red? It's really hard. Maybe a blue red.

Yeah, it does. It has blue red vibes. He told some of an interviewer that he was reflecting upon how many men can never remember how they first, where they first saw or met their wife. Right. He could. Yeah. He's a wife guy. That's, I mean, it's.

Much like Odysseus. as portrayed in The Odyssey. But this is a podcast about The Odyssey. This not being used as a joke. Yeah. I mean, it's like, it's being played at the Staten Island Bar as Alec Baldwin tries to just yada yada his way through cheating on the test character and propose to her impulsively in front of a large group of people.

So it's not being used as like a joke joke, but it is being used to reflect a character and a situation. It's a little smarty, a little manipulative. It doesn't really have a grasp on reality. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. It's not exactly the same as it was in Dodgeball, a true underdog story, or baby mama. Sure.

Or Deadpool and Wolverine? I don't remember that, but there are a lot of red costumes in there, so that makes sense. It's when the dog variant of Deadpool, who is named Mary Puppens, aka Dog Pool, comes running to Deadpool in the void. I do remember this now. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that film. in theaters. This is very relevant to your interests, I think, because I know you love this artist.

It was sampled by Daniel LaPatton. Oh. Twice. Okay. He, Daniel LaPatton apparently really loves this song. Sampled it in his 2009 video album Memory Vague. Okay. As the song Nobody Here. And also in his landmark 2010 Vaporwave album, Chuck Persons Ecojams, Volume 1. Okay. So Daniel LaPatton, much like us, is a lady in Redhead. Well, welcome. You think he's listened to this far into this podcast? I don't think he's ever listened to this podcast. Well, I think that he should have an Oscar for his score for Marty Supreme. So that's where I am. The thing about me is I can't talk to you about Marty Supreme on this podcast. What about the score? No. Okay. That's fine. You know? I'm a legendary hater of Marty Supreme. And just... Loved it. Absolute dynamite. They'll never

take it for me. Poor butterfly by Sunny Rollins. Okay. Don't remember when this is in the movie, but it is from the opera Madame Butterfly. Okay. And then obviously I'm so excited by the point of sisters. Sure, which they're dancing too. It's very brief. Yeah. This has in a million movies, just Yeah. Hot shots part due. What's the point in in using it after Saved by the Bell? You're so right. I mean.

That was the pinnacle. Yeah, I mean, if you're referencing Saved by the Bell, that's fine. Jesse Spano. Absolutely. In the workout gear. Yeah. And I think that kind of brings us to the end of the soundtrack. Yeah. And I think we've

covered a lot of ground. Well, so I'm trying to think of other movies and movie scores that are organized around like one song in this way. I was thinking about doing a sort of catch-all episode later like that because it happens a lot. Not exactly in this way where it's like the rest of the score is reflective of the thing. But like I think you brought up American Jigolo earlier. Was it American Jigolo? Yeah. That has I think one original song, which is Call Me by Blondie, but the rest is just Georgia Maroder.

score. Sure. Yeah, yeah. There were like, it seems like, it seems like the 80s is when people started to shift towards like full soundtrack albums because they were performing well or whatever. The Big Chill, obviously, and was, you know, the OG Forrest G. Forscum is how I put on similarly. Oh, yeah, very true. Yeah. That was for our parents. And then I had, I had the two disc, the two cassette tape, Forrest Gump. Come on. Get real. But yeah, it's, it's, the movies that I could think of, the most, like, specific example was the way we were, which, you know, opens with the Barbara Streis and singing the way we were. And then they use that motif throughout the score, like whenever Hubble does something that is, you know. I feel like there's, like, two kinds of soundtracks that there's, there's, like, ones that, like, the song, dirty dancing is a great example.

The songs are really interwoven into the text as part of the storytelling because it is a movie that is about music because it's about dancing, right? Or then there's like movies that just have these bang or assail tracks, but you might not even associate it with, you know, like they come up sometimes. And they're both great. Or there's like judgment night is a good example. That movie sucks. Yeah. barely even remember when those songs were in it. Right.

Goddare soundtrack, enduring forever. Yeah. Nobody revisits that film. I was trying to remember. So the four minutes song, Madonna. I know this is much later and not in the 80s. Madonna. Yeah.

Well, this came up because I said, Madonna to Juliet on Jam Session. She was like, oh, which song is that? And that's for a movie. But it was also used in a movie. And I didn't remember that. But at some point, movies just started buying up all the good songs. Get Smart.

Sure. The remake of the... Yeah, of the TV show. Starring Tina Faye and Steve Carell. Yeah, I had to look it up. Yeah. So, you know... I honestly didn't see it if we're being really honest with each other.

In a scene and in its film credits. Oh, okay. A lot of movies in the 90s have a mix of, like, licensed. songs and songs that were either written originally for the thing or covered originally. That was a big thing getting covers of existing songs that were only for the movie, which was really cool. Or still sometimes happens in movies in a way that it's always the Graze Anatomy Whisper cover. Guantanamo for these people.

Okay. Music supervisors that are like, what if we take this really cool 80s and 90s song and have a choir of breathy-voiced women sing it? jail, prison for you. You will never see it ends with us, the Blake lively movie that Colleen Hoover adaptation that inspired litigation. And that litigation was unfortunate for many reasons for I think all parties involved, but also because it drowns out the funniest thing that I saw in movies in 2024, I guess. And in recent memory, which is at a crucial moment,

there is a breathy voice cover of Holocene. I, like, I burst out laughing, like, full cackle in a special fan screening that was, like, mostly dates, and then me just absolutely weeping. Do you think Boniever has a gambling problem? Because why would he agree to that? How much money are you getting for cover? How much, like, from the licensing? I think half.

Okay, but so, but so what's the rate these days? I have no idea. I think it's completely dependent on the art. 3,000? Is it a million? Like, what is it? Like, what is it? It's got to be much more than 3,000. Well, how much? You know, I'd like to know.

50 grand? 100 grand? I'm speculating. If you are a music supervisor who regularly purchases music like this, please let us know. So 100 grand. I'm like, that's like a fully made up number. Okay. I mean, I think I would probably, sure. And what's it going to harm you to have like a girl whisper sing Holocene in this bad movie? I think it's, then you're associated.

But no one saw it. No one cares. I wouldn't do it. Okay. Would you do it? I'm probably not for 100,000, but like for 500,000, you know? I would do a lot of things for 500,000 and a thousand. And also then in that scenario, I'm Justin Vernon, and I have, like, the brainpower and talent to do other things.

Right. So, you know, I don't have to just be tied to Holocene. It's not my one chance. That should be illegal, no. Okay. You should put a moratorium. I think that Gray's Anatomy has, you know, gotten 20-something seasons out of it, and I agree. It's fine when Grey's Anatomy does it.

They invented it. It works with the text. The rest of you need to stop. Okay. Just cut it out. That's enough. Okay. It makes me so angry.

I agree. There's a TV show that me and my roommate just watched that does it so egregiously. It's the one. I don't watch TV, so it's a good show. I listen to it on Chris Ryan's. recommendation host of the television. You watched it. Yeah. You didn't listen to the TV show. Did I say I listen to it? Yeah, you did.

You know, not to bring up my cousin again, who I love so deeply, but I need to point out, Nikki, because it's so crazy that you do this, and I love it because you're so weird. She listens to TV shows, like, their podcasts. Yeah, that's what, I think that's how Netflix gets, like, a predominant amount of its. But, like, on her AirPods walking around the house. Oh, okay. Love Island on her. Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of, a lot of people do that. That's a positive future for us if we don't have to be in front of the camera anymore. You're so cool. You're inventing new ways to take in content.

I think that's just the logical extension of I need something to put on while I do my laundry and do. I agree with you a thousand percent. But here we are with our blue light blocking glasses and our blazers. Well, on that note, I feel like we've really covered a lot of ground. But we haven't gotten the presentation of the Haley Bieber jeans. Oh my God, you guys. If you made it to the end, what a real treat we have for you. I was like, no, I'm taking those home.

Oh, I have my phone. I can Venmo you right now. This is sort of like a jam session, bands playing crossover moment. Yeah. You guys might be familiar. I don't know how familiar my personal audiences with the Haley Jeans Gap collaboration. Yeah, Biber Gap Jeans collaboration that sold out online, I believe, in like three minutes. Very quickly.

But I was in Overland Park, Kansas. And I was told my cousin, I was like, you know what? I just have an inkling. that your location of the gap would still have some in stock and we headed on over the next day and guess what they did? And I called, I texted up

my mom's night out group chat. Yeah. And I said, should I buy these Haley Bieber jeans and does anyone want them? And bravely Amanda said, yes, I do. It seemed like a fun treat.

Also, then I looked online. Wonderful resale value. They are reselling at three times the face value of the jeans on Poshmark. Will I be reselling the ones I bought? to buy some of my real, real love list. Yeah.

It's anybody's game. Okay. We're going to see. I wasn't sure about sizing. And so if this doesn't work out, oh my God, this is so exciting. Wow, those are really big. They're the giant ones. No, no, no, I mean.

Yeah, the extra baggie. No, I mean... I think they might be too big for you because that's the same size I'm wearing and I think you're smaller than me. I mean, that's just not how life works and we don't have to do that. But so it is no stretch denim. So that's positive. Yeah, but you don't need stretch.

They're, they. No, no, no. But I also just like, I'm looking for no stretch. As I told. Stretch doesn't, I understand that stretch makes it easier for companies to manufacture large quantities of things and have them fit people. But like, stretch is only going to. Don't be doing it for slim jeans. Which people don't wear any more except I do.

Yeah, but also, but like you can't, you can't be wearing stretch after you've carried a child. It's just, you know, you know, the, it's not giving you what you. you need. So this is exciting. I find them... If you want to do that after you've carried a child, then more power to you and you can. There's no one way to be a mother. And I... Working girl taught us that. I support you. But I can't be wearing it. Okay. Stay tuned, you guys. This is hugely exciting. I don't have Yassiz Venmo, so I guess we'll do this after I will figure it out. Um, can't wait to see how... This is really, really, really exciting. They look like the jeans that I used to wear when I went to raves. And that's why I got them.

Yeah. The extra baggie. That's just one. extra baggy. This is exactly the Haley Vever content that everybody wanted, including Haley Beaver and Gap. Okay, thank you so much. No free ads, but we just did like a 20-minute ad for Gap and Haley Biber. And if you want to send us Road, we will accept it. 1,000 percent.

Never tried it. We'd love to. We'd love to. Amanda, what a wonderful time we just had. Thank you so much for letting me just run crazy over this podcast. I had the best time. I got this one ready. And also, I'm sorry again that I was late.

I forgot my phone. I had to go up all the stairs. It's so fine, babe. Feminism says that women are people. That's so true. It could also be late. Yeah. So please come back next week for a new episode of Bansplain.

If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bansplaine. Our guest today was Amanda Dobbins. This episode was produced by Rob Sunderman, edited by Adrian Bridges, with help from Justin Sales. Video production by Sarah Reddy. Executive producers for Bansplaine are Gina Dalek and me, Yossi Salak. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Cozantino and Jennifer Clavin and graciously recorded by Carlos DeLagarza in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert, and also

Sean Fennessey and my cousin Nicole de Beroncelli and her gorgeous little son, Leo, and also the city of Oberlin Park, Kansas. And the solid core in Leewood, Kansas. Come back every Thursday for a new episode of Vansplain on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hello. Let the river run. What about when I sing, let the river run? Let everyone.

I mean, I will do that at some point on the podcast, so.