The Grunge Draft with Chris Ryan, Rob Harvilla, and Sean Fennessey
00:00 This is Bill Simmons. I am thrilled to announce our newest YouTube channel. It's called Ringer Movies. If you're a fan of our movie coverage here at The Ringer, then you're in luck because every episode of the rewatchables and the big picture now on YouTube. Like Bill said, Ringer movies will feature full episodes of my show, The Big Picture, the Rewatchables, as well as special live episodes, deep dives into movie history and a bunch of other fun stuff featuring other movie-loving Ringer personalities.
00:24 Search Ringer movies on YouTube and experience the joy. Chris Ryan impersonating Wayne Jenkins on camera. Hey guys, before we get into the grunge draft, which I know you have all been waiting for with bated breath, I wanted to pop on and let you know that this is the last episode of the season. I know, I'm sorry. And we will be taking a short break so that I can go to the seaside institution for female hysteria, not physically speaking, but like spiritually. Anyway, I think if you listen to this episode, you can see it's giving wellness check babe.
01:03 It's giving grippy socks. It's giving the yellow wallpaper of the Google Doc. Anyway, we will be back with a brand new season in the fall. And in the meantime, you know, like, what are you supposed to do? I know you can relisten to old episodes. Self-harm with Allison Chains again, babe. And also, you know what? Why don't you go ahead and tell someone about the show?
01:23 Tell your friends and family. Get on Facebook. Leave a review. There's no need to gatekeep, babe. Post it on fucking next door. Whatever feels right. Anyway, enjoy the Grunge Draft, and we'll see you in a few months. What's with this band anyway?
01:41 I don't get it. Can you please explain? Wait, like, Bansplain? Hello and welcome to Bansplaine. I am your host, Yossi Salik. This is a show where I usually invite an expert guest on to help me explain a cult band or iconic artist. But today, we're doing something a little different, guys. Today's episode is the Grunge Draft.
02:31 Today you can call me Spin Doctor, babe, okay? Because I am joined by not one, not two, but three princes. That's right. Christopher C.R. Ryan. Thanks for having me, Yassie. So such an honor. Robert Harvilla, aka Bobby Harvilles. It's delightful to be here.
02:51 I feel like I'm on space ghost coast to coast as the one person who is not physically in the office. I feel like Tom York being interviewed by Space Coast. Who is Space Ghost in this equation? Am I Space Ghost? I'm Brack, for sure. I think you would be Space Ghost. I would say Chris is Brack. And by default, I guess,
03:11 you can pull off Zorak. I want to be Malchmus in studio when Malchmus was on Space Ghost. Wouldn't that be great? Yeah, yeah. That's right. I want to be John Wayne. And my benevolent
03:25 boss. managerial class Mr. Jonathan Fennessee Hi first time drafter on this program anyways I know you drafted many other times I know you basically invented drafting I am a learned drafter yeah and I'm happy to join the show and draft do you feel like you're bringing your same
03:41 competitive edge today or is it more about a celebration music and art? This is not important to you don't care about this show I'm not sure how I could win any more than being here with the three of you the yasi paradox of you being like rules don't matter drafting is patriarchal but I must win is pretty interesting I've never said I must win. I do tend to win. It's your name on that.
04:04 That's right. That's why. Yeah. No, you know my views on drafting, which is that I think as long as you go with your heart and not some craven, cynical approach to winning, then you've already won. Much like Sean said, and we've already won by being together here in friendship, podcasting friendship. That's why you're not a manager. How many drafts have you done, Yossi, at this point? Do you have any, just in a podcast format?
04:30 Just the only time I do it. I don't know, four, five, maybe. Have I been on all of them? I think Chris has been on, oh, no, you weren't on the Pearl Jam one because this is the second one this season. We did the Pearl Jam draft. Yeah. Who won that one?
04:46 I don't even know if we are able to tell because you can't run a poll on X.com anymore, right, unless you're a verified user. Is that correct? I don't know. We have to get Elon on the horn over here. Wow. So I think that went away. I do have an answer, I think, for who won that draft, though.
05:03 It wasn't me. It was dads. The dads of America. Dads won that draft. Father's Day came early. Yeah. Rob, you like Pearl Jam? That's all right.
05:13 You know. Wow. Do you like them the least now than you've ever liked them in your life? That was such a banana. as answer to that question. I'm sorry. Just trying. I went through six weeks
05:35 of living and breathing Pearl Jam and I actually came out the other side liking them more. Yeah. Yeah. I noticed that. I noticed when you were talking about starting the season, you were like, oh, Pearl Jam and then I got to go into their world. Every season. I have a sense of dread. I just want you know. I already have it. I talked about it in therapy yesterday.
05:51 I was like, we're wrapping up this season and soon I will have to start working on next season. She was like, you're Not even done yet. And I was like, I know. Does your therapist listen to the pod? I fucking hope not, babe. Do they listen to Pearl Jam?
06:04 I think she's like aware that there is a Pearl Jam. I'm not sure she's like bumping that. Now she is. Certainly. Yeah. Yeah. My therapist listening to any of my pods is a nightmare. You have a therapist?
06:17 I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. Anybody who is a therapist listening to any of my pods is a nightmare. But like that, but like it's not giving you up therapy. I've been open about that in the past. Yeah.
06:29 Sierra, you have a therapist? I don't know. I already know you don't have one wrong. Hey. Not for a while. Well, some of us. Probably time to come back around to that. I don't really need therapy because I listen to Grunge for 20 hours and I feel like I'm good.
06:46 I have a lot of thoughts about that. That's why why I need therapy is because I had to listen to Grunge for 20 weeks. What do you mean? It's the ultimate outlet. Yeah. It's the true expression. It's like, you know what? Things aren't that bad.
06:56 It's true. are that bad and fucking get on board bitch I wanted to ask you about that do you think that that is the prevailing message of the grunge era is it that sincerity plus cynicism is the way I think we're going to have to like parse that when we talk about what is grunge because I think it depends what artists you're talking about yeah that's the pearl jam message probably I think maybe Nirvana too I think I mean those there's a lot of really sincere songs that are
07:27 shot through the lens of somebody who's like, I have to use wordplay to protect myself and to distract you from how much pain I'm in. I would like, I wouldn't maybe swap the word sincere for authentic. I feel like that's the value proposition of grunge as like authenticity, which sincerity sort of falls under that, that umbrella. That's probably why people got driven so crazy by bands that they thought were appropriating that authenticity, but we're really just trying to make a buck. 100%, which, you know, anyways, okay, let's talk a little. Before we get into, spiritually, which of us four do you think is the most grunge? Spiritually?
08:04 Yeah. Well, you know what? I have to say, I would say Rob if it was just like a blind taste test. But sometimes when I pod with Rob, he never ceases to surprise me where he'll be like, I think I overestimate that Rob and I had very identical childhoods, which we didn't. And also like the mild age difference sometimes comes out. And so I would say Rob, but I wonder if it's actually me. Interesting.
08:27 just because... I was going to say you, and so I guess that makes sense. But I wasn't grunge when grunge was happening. Yeah. It's definitely not Sean. Well, why do you say that? Let's explore it.
08:41 This is what people pay... Is it because I got a haircut? This is what people pay therapists for. No, it's just... I mean, we can unpack your post-grunge playlist if you want, but like some of the stuff on there, I was like, oh, your starting point was totally different. You throwing Semy on my way on there, rusted root, gorgeous songs.
09:00 Let's give a little context. I made a playlist on Spotify years ago called After Grunge. The whole idea of that playlist was this is basically what contemporary alternative rock radio was when Allison Chains' Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Stone Temple Pilots, like more or less ceased to be the primary driving force. 95-6. 94-95, basically is when that starts to happen. Sam-A-M-A-Way. The case you could make for me being the most grunge. Oh, okay.
09:36 And we share this because we're roughly the same age. Yeah. Is that it hit me at a younger age. Right. And so I had less consciousness about what was and wasn't cool and why and what even the idea of authenticity was and what it was a rejection of. Right. And what it was a rejection of. I never was a fan of any hair metal other than Guns and Roses.
09:54 I didn't really know anything about it. So I was only entering, like, my adolescence kind of starts with Nirvana. Right. Same. And it smells like teen spirit taking off. And I loved that music and I owned all those records. And I'm here on this pod with you guys. So I wasn't making like a critical or intellectual choice.
10:13 It was just an emotional choice that I was like, this is the music that speaks to me. There was other music that spoke to me too. Rap music. Yeah. And that was a very similar thing at a very similar time. Like, there's a reason that those became like the two dominant modes of popular music at that time. But obviously in my presentation as a person, I wouldn't say I'm like the most grunge. I acknowledge that.
10:35 Okay. What's your case? I don't think there's any way to know. It's obviously not me because grunge is fundamentally male. That is mostly true. People don't like when I say this, much like when I say emo music is like a particularly male form of debasement and no one likes it when I say that. grunge which is not a real genre and we're going to get into that. Also
10:56 somehow without being real or having real parameters is kind of exclusively male. With like a couple of ex. Well that gets into like the question of like what is this in crunch? I think it goes back to my theory of grunge being the sound of the masculine
11:13 reacting to divorce. And it's not the sound of the feminine and doesn't mean that men don't have feminine within them but that is it's like Are you laughing? You're laughing? You're laughing at me right now? I am not.
11:30 Yeah, I just, I think that, I think that kind of fuels grunge music in a way. Am I going to cancel? No, that's a way to look at it. That's my internalized misogyny. When forced to think about what grunge is or was, well, it's different because what it was when you were in the moment felt so insane because it was at once the most prefab package.
11:52 like commodified thing that also seemed to be legitimately the result of a few bands or a bunch of bands of the Pacific Northwest from the late mid-80s to the early mid-90s who all liked punk and hardcore but also liked classic metal like there is like a way to build the algebraic equation of grunge but then it just took on such a huge other meaning and I think now is almost like this it's funny that we're doing this pot because it was like it was like essentially a Scarlet Letter for all these bands. I don't think any of them
12:25 more proudly, right? That's why I think it's so interesting. Can you think of another genre that people were like, I'm not that? Like, you know, like, even punk,
12:36 which was similarly commodified and, you know, sold back to people, people were like, yeah, I'm a punk, I'm a punk fan. Like, they owned that. Like, I'm a metal. Yeah, they were still litigating what punk was.
12:48 No one was like, I'm grunge. People were like, die away from me. Don't fucking call me that. That's a slur. I mean, has there ever been a subgenre, or at least even just a genre descriptor that had so few bands that actually matched the description? Okay, let me ask you guys. Do you think, like, you're saying there is a way to, like, do a taxonomy? Do you think it's, like, so narrow that it's like, is it like champagne?
13:11 Like, the grapes must come from the champagne region of Seattle. Do you know what I mean? I don't think that's fun, but I think you could do it that way. I mean, to me, the other cool thing about what happened with these bands. and obviously not cool in some ways was this was still a time in American popular culture where regionalism mattered. And every once in a while, and we kind of lived through it with like Atlanta rap or Houston rap and like different like kind of local scenes that exploded into mainstream consciousness.
13:40 And then the sound of those scenes just became the template by which everybody made music for a while. Midwestern emo. Right. I would say that like, STP has nothing to do with the Pacific. Northwest, but winds up being kind of like a fundamental grunge era band. Right. Right. But okay.
14:00 Also, the thing that was, I love to show you guys my aura sleep score from last night because there's literally like a chunk in the middle of the night where I'm not sleeping. And it's where I'm sitting thinking about this stuff. It's literally three in the morning. And I'm like, okay, but what about why is it? Why is it? I can't believe I'm getting dunked on for not going to therapy when that.
14:21 That's something that you were actually struggling with. I've actually been going twice a week. No one is arguing that I'm not the most mentally ill. That's no one's that. No, but also like other genres of music, I feel like you would say that an album is this. Like you're like, oh, this artist made their like post-punk album. Oh, the national is doing whatever. Not that I would know.
14:46 But you know what I mean? Like this, a departure and now a new thing. why is it not like that for grunt? Because there are like, STB is a perfect example. Like, yes, the first STB album, I think you could make the reasonable argument that it's a grunge album sonically.
15:00 Yeah. But then are they, but grunge is like typified by artists for some reason instead of by albums. Rob, how did you think about this when you were doing 60 songs? When you were up at 3 a.m. last night, how did you think about this, Rob?
15:13 I have the same thing. I have the orange bar on my phone that says I was up at 3 a.m. thinking about grunge. So I'm right there with you. Like for me, I think it was similar what Sean was saying. You know, it was a Halloween costume that I put on, you know, that became my whole identity when I was 13 years old.
15:29 You know, I sort of marked the start of my life as a teenager to smells like teen spirit, to live, you know, to hearing the guitar riff from alive for the first time, you know. And I thought of Seattle, you know, as this mythical Valhalla where everything cool was happening, you know, and I just totally bought in, you know, I was the most grunge out of all of us when I was 13. You know, I had all the t-shirts. I had all the flannels. You know, I had all the scuzziness.
15:58 You know, I had all the cynical sincerity, you know, that I was supposed to have. I just totally bought in to the idea. And it was fake in a sense. It was a costume in a sense. But it was real, you know, at the same time. It was real to me, you know. And I can still listen to these songs that I've heard a billion times and flash back to being 13 years old. you know, and thinking that this is my lifestyle now.
16:23 I was kind of surprised, Rob, when I was listening back through the songs or artists I was thinking about picking today, how many of the bands and artists I had now since recategorized or like given a different like kind of, you know what I mean? Like we're basically like, no, in fact, they're, they're not grunge. They're like a deep purple kind of band or they're like a Pixies kind of band or they're this or they're an extension of. girl or whatever it was and how the fact that grunge basically did not have legs as a term like yeah you can look it up on spotify and you'll get 1500 grunge playlists but they're all the same
17:01 couple dozen songs and if you also i have some bones to pick with them like today i was listening to the official one i was like fool fighters yeah but fuck out of here with that the drummer from nirvana who put out a record right after kirk died like pretty much right after kirk died doesn't mean it's a grunge album i know but like doesn't he have as much of a claim to it and As Stone Temple pilots? I think if he wanted it, we would ignore. If he was like, I'm a, Food Fighters is a grunge band. Which nobody would say that.
17:29 Maybe candlebox. That's to your point about people rejecting it in full. And it was beneficial for two years as a marketable strategy for bands to get big. And then as soon as they got big enough, they wanted to be as far away from it as possible. Yeah, I wanted to like talk about it. Because I do feel like it was like you said, Chris, it was like largely like a capitalistic structure like perpetuating. like perpetuated by MTV and like the music media to like sell stuff. You guys were all part of the music media.
17:56 What say you? I know not at the time, but just like you were part of that world. How do you feel about the crimes perpetrated by the music media? I think this one has like a particularly tough spin because of how the times got dunked on for the subpop piece. Oh, what about using the picture of Eddie Vedder for the cover without his permission? Right. Like there's like a series of instances where it felt like. like outsider coastal media invading a regional space like Chris is describing and trying to like
18:25 basically make as much money off of it as possible but on the other hand like I don't know the all these bands signed a Geffen you know what I mean like they participated that's sort of the tricky part about grunge which is like it's very this is why I do feel spiritually of the most grunge because I also feel like look at me don't look at me do you know what I'm drinking Starbucks I'm drinking Starbucks you're on camera on a podcast I'm Spotify exceptionally good looking I also deal with seasonal depression and year-round depression. And I look great in the flannel. No, well, because I think they wanted a manageable level of success.
18:58 And it's just like, it was like a be careful what you wish for, like Jenny Holzer moment where it was like, no, you get this. Like, I don't think any of them could have guessed what it was going to be like. They wanted to be like, hey, and Dinosaur Jr. Like, we make a living. But they didn't want to be Fugazi. But they didn't want to be Fugazi because they, who does? No offense to Ann McI.
19:17 Like, who got closest to those? the right amount of fame and success. That they, like, made good money enough to live but didn't, like, ruin their own lives? Well, it's hard to say not ruin your own lives because, like, you could argue that Allison Chains is kind of the platonic ideal grunge band. Obviously, tragic consequences. Right. But I don't know, you know, was Lane's addiction, like, correlated to the success, or was he just a troubled guy? Or did he just stumble on heroin one day?
19:47 Who knows? Yeah. Like they were not Pearl Jam Like obviously Pearl Jam Eddie Vedder had a real discomfort Yeah With how quickly things went crazy Yeah
19:56 Obviously Kirkobay did too Could you have been in the second tier of band But Soundgarden was And I think Chris Cornell also felt very uncomfortable Yeah So I don't know It's that weird thing that Chris is describing Where it's like you have punk roots
20:10 But you also You also want to be the real like Black Sabbath Yeah And like you want You want success because I think for a lot of reasons like because Black Sabbath had success and because you want to tour stadiums probably like eventually like you want to play for a lot of people you just kind of they kind of wanted to earn it and they didn't they didn't really have to earn it right Rob, how much does this music wound up being an ever-present part of your life versus something that you do more like on assignment or like when an anniversary happens or when we're doing a podcast like this?
20:41 How many times a week do you listen to Man in the Box is what you ask? Yeah. Well, man in the box is an exception. But like Pearl Jam's 10 is a record I can't really listen to for pleasure anymore. Right. Like I've just worn that out in my head. You know, as the third CD I ever bought, you know, as my lifestyle when I was 13, I don't really hear it as. music anymore, you know, and there's like probably 10, 15 records like that, you know, from my teenage years, and they're not all grunge, but they're primarily grunge, right? You know, and so I, part of it is just I don't need to hear it anymore, and it's not that I don't like it anymore, but I, yeah, it's, I feel like I have burned out on all the big ones at this point. And I think that was true to an extent even before I started doing the show. And it was great to revisit, you know, individually, you know, these songs, these albums, these bands, you know, like Allison Chains is somebody who I think I have more appreciation for now than I did at a time. You know, I think of the major grunge bands, there's the ones that have sort of lived on in my head the most. And just the phases, you know, I'm trying to factor out the recency bias, Yassi of our having talked about them for hours and hours. But I do think, you know, the jar of flies phase, you know, the post-jar flies phase.
22:00 like just the Alice and change just separates into these really cool eras for me in a way that sort of gives them new life even though those are all records I've heard a billion times but yeah this is this is this stuff
22:13 you know that I don't ever need to hear again necessarily but I still go back to it sometime anyway you're not like freezing and you put it on pillow made of concrete chagrin Chris and I and some other friends went on a Palm Spring vacation like four or five years ago
22:32 just like a short weekend vacation. In honor of grunge. At the house that we stayed in, an Airbnb that we stayed in, there was a massive record collection and the record collection was organized by like Rolling Stones top 500 albums and they had every album and then lots and lots of other stuff. What a fucking loser. This is not why we picked the house. It also had like a live, laugh, love poster. Probably did. We didn't know it was going to be there when we got there.
22:56 But when we got there, obviously we listened to a ton of music. Sure. And I would venture to guess that Pearl Jam's verses was the album that we listened to the most. I love verses. And I think it's kind of the inverse of what Rob was just describing where I was like, I haven't listened to this closely in 25 years. Yeah. But when I was listening to it, it was all I listened to for like six months.
23:14 Yeah. And so I know every song back and forth, half of the songs are like not even good, but I love it. And it's right as they're trying to figure out like how to reject their own fame, you know, before they really do on Vitology. But like I think we like spun it back like four or five times. I had like an out of body experience through the mirror. I was like, this is the best way ever in my life. Dude, they played it when I went and saw them live, and I was like, I'm living.
23:36 Also, I think those two albums have the unique distinction of not being as overplayed on radio. And they weren't on MTV. There was no videos. They refused to make videos. So, like, the hits on radio, I felt like, like, Better Man, I heard like a 4,000 times. Daughter, I heard a billion times. Don't call me. But the album cuts for sure, like, they didn't permeate the same way that album cuts on 10, like, to Rob's point.
24:00 point where you definitely felt like you heard the entirety of 10 for an entire year on radio. Also, let's be honest, 10 is cornyer. Like, 10 is like jock jams. I like it. Yeah. Don't get me wrong. I actually don't get upset when thoughts arrive like butterflies comes on. I'm like, okay, let's fucking go, Edward.
24:15 Like, you were really cooking here. I listened. I watched the, uh, the oceans video to prepare for this, which I hadn't seen in some time. It's fantastic. Gorgeous man. It's, it's so beautiful, but it's also just like an Oakley sunglasses advertisement. You know what I mean? Like it's just, like, it's just, like, it's just, like, it's just, like,
24:30 like beautiful men holding surfboards, like moving in slow motion in black and white. That's right. And I remember being like 11 and being like, this is, this is masculinity. We used to be a proper country. So if you haven't guessed, we never arrived on a set of parameters for this draft draft. Oh yeah. Chris is the draft master. Well, no, I was just going to say we never like, I think we had a back and forth.
24:54 First, it was like bands that are on this season of bands spleen and one other, right? Yeah, well, I didn't. One of you guys said that. And I was like, you know me, I like chaos. And I was like, absolutely not. Let's do it the way it was done then, which was like anyone could call anything grunge and then you just have to defend your choice. Yeah.
25:12 So, but what we wound up doing was to make it a little bit more interesting, it was instituting some rules about men lumb rules. Whether or not like, so basically for each individual drafter, once you draft a artist or an artist's song, that artist is off the board for you, right? Just for you personally. And once an artist or a song is drafted within a category, that artist is off the board. For that category. For that category.
25:37 So that basically is the- It makes it a little more challenging. In honor of Justin Sales, their Nirvana rule. Because he was like, you guys would just pick Nirvana. Now, I actually would not have. I don't want to say it, but I was like, I don't think anyone, I would actually venture to guess no one is going to pick Nirvana, but that's just a guess. There's some Nirvana things that I would want, but I wouldn't want what Justin was suggesting. It's possible, which is that you just went Nirvana in every category. I would never do that either.
26:00 I think there's too much like I'm not like other girls energy secretly flowing under the surface of all of us that like that's actually a poster that Rob has up on his wall there. Nobody can see it right now. More for when he Airbnb is his house with the 500 degrees. It's just got a frame. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, sorry. I'll set that up for next time.
26:17 Before we got started, obviously. The ringline is not optimized to show that. To show the I'm not like other girls. You already know after just a tiny bit of history. You already know the vibes. You know Mark Arm accidentally coined this term. However, obviously, it existed in the context of all that came before at Coconut Tree. You know what I'm saying.
26:37 Lester Banks used it first on record in 1972. Cream Magazine Review of the glam metal band White Witch. Here's the letter that Mark Arm wrote, though, to Desperate Times to nominate his own band as the most overrated band in Seattle. I hate Mr. Up in the Calculations. Pure Grunge, pure noise, pure shit. Everyone I know loves them. I don't know why.
26:59 They don't even wear chains in mohawks. They all look different. Yuck. And they have no sense of humor. In fact, they have no sense. They're all pretentious, older than the Grateful Dead, punchy anthems, and they love Emerson, Lake and Palmer. Amazing.
27:13 This really places you in time. It goes on a little bit. And then he signs his name five times, Mark McLaughlin before he was called Mark Arm, I guess. Or he didn't want to use his government punk name. Where was this Polish? Desperate Times, which was like the other, It was like the hardcore oriented alt paper that was like the other the rocket basically.
27:33 And this kind of like, it makes the case that I think is the one thing I do feel is that like grunge patient zero is mark arm. Yeah. I think that's reasonable. Sure. Like in every way that you can like Green River being, I think you could argue the first grunge band. He has real like first guy in, last guy out energy for the whole project. You know, still working in the mail room at subpop. It had his name on it on the box.
27:57 you subpop for that and I was like mark arms sent me a subpop I'm living also obsessed he as you guys know it came on 24 question party people and under duress he absolutely obviously did not want to come on and subop was like you need to go on this podcast and I was like okay but I was like don't you get tired of like every time they do anything on grunge they're like we better talk to mark arm does he he seemed actually pretty gracious about it he was like I don't know like it's fine I guess like it's nice to just be known for anything. You can make the case. He doesn't, don't think he cares about being known for anything.
28:35 I think he just seems like sort of like shrugged shoulders like whatever it's fine. And he does seem to have like different energies at different times. Like, but he will absolutely tell the God's honest truth and he does not mince words, which I like that they go to him. That's cool. Anyways, that's all I wanted to say about. That's the history of grunge. That's just real quick. And then, you know, we, you guys, I did 15 other episodes where we talk about, did I not?
29:01 You did. Yeah. You can go back to episode number one of the season. Are you not having fun making your show? Is it supposed to be fun? Rob, do you have fun making your show? I think I have more fun making my show than you have making your show. You have fun making your shows?
29:16 Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. This is a, this is a, it's camaraderie here. Yeah, but what do you do, Sean? You're like, okay, I go see a cool movie, eat some popcorn. and then I come do a chit-chat about it. You don't have to listen to every sound garden in the album 12 to 17 times.
29:31 If that's what you think my life is, then I will allow you to continue to believe that. He eats a tub of Mike Nights and watches... You don't have popcorn when you go to the movie theater? I don't eat popcorn. I don't just like popcorn. It would be too much... Is popcorn like a hack for you?
29:45 Like a cool health hack? No, no. Popcorn is absolutely across-the-board bad for you. Is it? Yeah. Corn is not good for you. Ah, shit. I'm sorry?
29:54 Now you tell me. No. Sometimes I have fun. By this week of the season, it's not fun anymore. I'm sorry, that's the truth. Okay, we've been in the trenches. We're tired. We'll make this fun.
30:07 Yeah, this is fun. I love this. I'm living. I'm thriving. Rob should really try to win hard. Like, Rob should go super competitive. Before we get started, let me ask you guys. You think so? Yeah, I do.
30:21 Okay. I wish I didn't know that ahead of time, but I'll try to pivot now to actually winning. I'll do what I can. Do you think you guys are, like, purists? Or do you think you're going to like approach this to like because grunge is fluid, you can bend the rules to win? I think I'm like a Supreme Court justice where I have a lot of originalist takes. And then every once in a while I have a pet issue that I'll just kind of tweak. The Amy Coney Barrett of this draft.
30:46 So like I have definitely like I tried to restrict myself. I'm not picking stuff from like 1997 and being or like the new like a waves record or something like that. waves record, I would kick you right off this fucking show. But I'm just saying, like, I'm not trying to be too cute, but I do think I'm being a little cute in some of my picks. The Chris Ryan promise, if you will. Otherwise, you would just have six bands, right? I mean, yeah, if you wanted to limit to, like, the big eight, the big four and the
31:15 small four or whatever. I mean, you kind of bent the parameters a little bit during the season. I probably bent the, it would have been so boring otherwise. Yeah, so I feel like we should draft in the spirit of that. That's what I'm trying to do. I think you draft in, this is a morality test is what I'm telling you. Yeah, I think it's going to show a lot about who you are as a person. What kind of things that you draft.
31:32 I think that's true of every good draft. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, that's stressful. You're going to sell out, Rob? Apparently, I am. I was going to pick sellout by real big fish. And so I guess, yes.
31:44 Real big fish. It's a great riff. All right. Do you want to? When are we doing the scoddraft? Yeah, man. That's a big pick episode and you enjoy yourselves. What's the most?
31:57 Skah movie. Oh, well, the one, isn't it the one that like both, this is good. Gorgeous little tie in you guys. Look at the camera. The one that radicalized Edward Vetter and also Jesse Michaels, who started Operation I Vacame, remember the name of it, but Eddie Vedder saw it, and then he got into the English beat, heard Save It for Later, wrote Better Man, and here we are. And also, his save it for later, Eddie Vedder's cover Save It for Later on the bear the season.
32:25 And not me at every juncture explaining to people. against their will why it was that cover. Hey, you guys know, do you know about Better Man? Use the same chord progression. And everyone's like, shh, this is a party. You're not doing a scoff season, right? This is therapy. You got to do a scoss season. Do a scoff season. Remember when you're like, is this fun for you? And then you were like, can you do a scaw season in the same breath? Actually, we don't listen, but it would be pretty funny. I think one of the challenges is I say stuff like, will you do a scoss season? And then you're like, Sean's, that I have to do a scoss season and you get stressed out.
32:59 I don't actually think you should do a scoss season. I think you should. Do you feel that when you say things I get stressed out that I have to do that? I know for a fact, despite you deflecting. I do know that that is something that you think about. That's why we don't have the dummy. That's true. You want to explain that for the listeners?
33:13 Yeah, I wanted to, I wanted to, because Rob couldn't be here in the flesh. I wanted to get a full-sized dummy, which, by the way, was only $79.99 on Amazon.com And tape a picture of Rob's wincing face to it and have it sitting there. And Sean was like, do not do that. because he is constantly curtailing my creativity. Rob, how do you feel about that now in the aftermath of that decision? Can I see this dummy?
33:34 It was $80? Like, was it my height? Like, on what basis was this dummy in particular? I don't think it was your height. It was probably like 5.10 or something. Rob is roughly 7 foot 6. I'm sorry. I need at least the heights to be accurate.
33:50 I'm going to be careful this episode because I got yelled out by several men for being too mean to Sean on the Stoneubble pilots. You. Really? Yeah, they were really coming. They were like laying their swords. My white knights. That's right. Literally. Oh, wow. Quite literally. My patriots. My goodness. Yeah. They really, they were like, you know, the one, they called me something really funny. You can drop the cool girl attitude. That was just my dad. Honey, unfortunately, I can't because it's who I am. It's a cool girl life. That's so encouraging. Yeah. Also, a man yelled at me for not having enough women.
34:26 the season. A man. I looked about a white man came and yelled at me. That's tough. That's not ideal. It's rough. Okay, Chris, do as the draft master, do you want to explain the rules of the draft? Sure. We have categories a little bit different than maybe previous drafts. We were doing singer, front person. Yeah. Album. Radio hit, which is an interesting definition of what you consider a hit. Well, I just didn't want to have it to be broad as song. Yeah, I agree. And I was like, A song that was on the radio. Music, video. Yeah.
34:57 And riff. That was a Chris Ryan original. I just thought maybe it would be cool to do something different than Wildcard. Yeah. Can I ask a dumb question? Because famously, I know nothing about actual music in the guitar center sense of the term. Is there such thing as a bass riff? Yes.
35:12 Okay. And there's also, like, I think you can just say the part of the song that starts that makes me go crazy. That's like, this is so awesome. This is starting. It doesn't, it can be whatever you want it to be. It doesn't have to be guitar. guitar hero gorgeous stuff
35:25 Is that cool for you Rob? I'm good I'm into the riff one especially Yes All right so we need somebody To determine the draft order Oh we have it Producer Jesse has sent it
35:34 It is Chris Yasi Rob Sean Shit You weren't prepared I know I had a lot of like They're not going to take my stuff And then I'll be free to do
35:44 What I want to do And now there's a lot of pressure on me So in the big picture There's a prevailing theory That first pick always wins drafts because you get the, you get to pick the departed or whatever the big movie is
35:58 that someone would want to pick. Not to bum me up, but I've never seen this department. It's really good. It's really good. Would recommend. Directed by Martin Scorsese. I've heard of it Scorsese. I don't think that's how it works on on Bansplain just from thinking to prior drafts. I think it's a really anyone's game here.
36:14 Okay. All right. All right. Let's just do, so I'll get us started with radio hit. We're not going to get too confrontational yet. I'm going to pick nearly lost you by Screaming Trees. I knew. I knew in my 3 a.m.
36:26 reverie is I was like, Christopher Ryan is going to draft a screaming trees thing. And I was great. Do you think that radio hit is the most, like the most difficult category? Well, this is top 12. This is a mainstream rock charts.
36:41 On the Billboard 200? Well, we didn't say that it had to be the Billboard 200. We just said it had to be played on one radio station one time. No, I don't know. But it was. I mean, it became. It did became a mild radio hit after the singles sound time. Yeah, for sure.
36:56 It's a great song. Just awesome song. Probably not particularly grungy and it's like DNA. Like you could probably say that this is like a really good sped up fuzzy 60s R&B song or whatever. Which you can say about almost every Nirvana song. Yeah. And then really cool vocal performance from Mark Lannigan. I love faster Screaming Trees songs.
37:25 I probably only got introduced to him through the connection to Greg Dooley and the Afghan Sandwigs and stuff, but, you know, I went back and checked them out. And this is, this is like, still like probably the song to what I was saying, asking Rob, like, how much stuff is still in rotation from this era. I still, I still listen to Nearly Lost You. Same. That's a great song. What do you think? I'm a huge fan of that song. Thanks, man. I wouldn't have been my first overall pick. I know. It's a weird. No one else was going to take that. I know. But I also, like, I think I really did do my board. Yeah, you're leading with your, you're not a poser, babe. You're leading with your, Doc Marl. You're leading with your Doc Mar. You're leading with your Doc Mar. Martin's boots on the ground. Authentic. Authentic. And I absolutely respect the hell out of that. Are you second or is Rob?
38:07 I'm second. Okay. Does that means my turn now? I'm going to go front, man. Because I actually think this is the hardest category. Okay. 3 a.m. really rifling through them. I'm really rifling through.
38:20 Recency bias, like you said, Rob, unfortunately. I have like 16 weeks of recency bias. But I'm going to go Chris Cornell. Interesting. Not just because he was the last one, but... It's the right choice. Thank you. I think, like, he has everything.
38:34 Like, he has charisma and negative charisma. Who is that? Was it me and you that talked about negative charisma, or was it me and you, Rob? I don't know what you're talking about. I think it was me and you, Rob, that we talked about it with Billy Corrigan, maybe, a little bit. But I think about it most is associated with Kirk Cobain.
38:51 But in the 90s, this was a thing. It's like, it's a charisma that is repellent, but it's still very much, like, draws you into it, And that was a nice thing. And Chris Cornell has both kinds. Like he's both, like, shiny and you can tell that he's hiding, which is so good for a grunge. God damn, gorgeous, beautiful man. I mean, just a, who looks like that?
39:13 Literally, they don't make men like that anymore, you guys. That's just, I asked, this was made me cry laughing. Kim Thale told me, that's right, Kim Thail was on the potting. I was going to go to educate yourselves. When they were first starting, Chris was always so tanned because he was so outdoorsy, Seattle that people thought he was Puerto Ricans. They thought they were like a very ethnically diverse band. And I was like, oh, I couldn't totally see that.
39:34 And also, I'm so TikTok-pilled that I have that, like, drag race clip that's like, look, Puerto Rican. Look like a Puerto Rican with that hair. And I just can't, you know what I know. I know what that is? I have no clue you're talking. Rob, do you know what that is? I do not, no.
39:49 We're men in our 40s. So we don't. You think I'm not a man in my 40s? Is that what you're saying? We don't think. I believe you would say that I'm not a man in my 40s. Do your children use TikTok? Rob? They do not. They're YouTube.
40:01 You know, they're in Skibbitty Toilet, you know, the Skibbitty Toilet Extended Universe. It's baffling. Don't know what that is either. TikTok. That's going to be rough when that happens, but we're not to TikTok yet now. Yeah. I'm really sorry. I saw a really, really like, harrowing TikTok of a dad with their, like, eight-year-old daughter explaining all the slang of the eight-year-olds and it, like, something broke inside of me. The good news is there's no one under the age of 30 listening to this podcast, so we're good.
40:26 That's true. That's true. I get a lot of messages from like 21-year-old women. Isn't that crazy? Are any of them defending me against your slings and arrows? No. Okay. That's too bad. No, they're like, yeah, fuck that guy. Just kidding.
40:39 Anyways, back to Chris. And I would argue he has the best voice. Most classical front person. And just like his voice. He has such an insane, the range, what he's able to do vocally. Like, Eddie Vedder and Kurt Cobain also super distinct. Lane Staley. Lane's
41:11 also obviously up there vocally like he's an incredible but Chris Cornell was just like something fucking else I think. Can I give you a counterweight to this pick? This is not undermining your pick. No, but it's the point of view. I like Soundgarden a lot. I never
41:26 would have picked him in this category because even though he is a beautiful god of a man and has an astonishing voice. So tall. He would have been a successful singer in any other era. That's a cool point. He could have been a crooner in the 50s. He went through various transformations over the years where he was
41:44 kind of changing his sound a little bit. He did the album with Timberland. Yeah, Timbaland. I mean, but he did more like acoustic records later in his career too. He could have been like a Tim Buckley style like, you know, folk singer. He he could have been and because of the way that he looked, because he was so beautiful, he could have been a famous singer at any time. He is not like elemental to the grunge sound, whatever the hell that means. The, he could have been. The one, he was a way that I think some of those other core singers were. Yeah. We're like, I don't think Lane Staley could have been a star singer at any other point up to that point.
42:19 No, 100% Lanez-Dilley could have been a metal band frontman and fucking... That sounds like those guys looked pretty... But like metal, I mean, metal started only like nine years before Allison Shane. You know what I mean? Yeah, but your argument has to be airtight baby. You're saying couldn't have been a frontman of any other. And it's like, he totally could have. I don't know that Chris Cornell could have.
42:38 could have been a... Have you listened to the acoustic albums? Yeah, he has a great singing voice. Yeah, but they're not successful. They're not successful. It doesn't... It doesn't really... It doesn't have a great voice, though.
42:49 Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe I just... Listen, I went with my heart. Tell you what, I'm just making podcast conversation. And again, the... The category is frontman singer. So it's not just like singer.
43:02 It's like, what did you bring to the table? And I think my earlier points about negative charisma and charisma, the look the like he had like shirt off but also don't look at me like that's grunge and a fucking
43:16 you prefer long hair or short hair for him god any hair maybe he looks so good I mean the short hair gorge the long hair gorgines like all of it just like an exceptionally
43:27 an exceptionally good look it's not because he's so hot because there are many hot front men like Kirkabane was extremely attractive like Lane's staley started out pretty attractive you know, like, I'm not going to keep naming. Kind of circle to the next pick.
43:41 Yeah, yeah. No, I'm done here. Is it Rob's turn? Rob, your turn? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay.
43:53 I am picking music video. I'm picking Hunger Strike. Oh. Oh. Oh. Rob. I think if you would come on my show. When I close my eyes and I picture grunge, I picture two things.
44:07 I picture all those dudes down by like the lake or whatever, like rocking out. Yeah. You know, and I picture Eddie in the weeds, right? You know, those are the two central images of grunge for me. That's where I got it visually. You know, that's where I fully internalized, you know, this place, this lifestyle. This is the introduction to everything for me, I think, you know. And I think it's important that a song endure is like a karaoke.
44:37 type thing, like an interactive experience. And I think that hunger strike overall has aged the best. In that respect, you know, you get both Eddie and Chris, you know, I feel good about this. But I feel from a visual perspective, hunger strike.
44:52 I think it's the correct. It's the correct choice. That was definitely on near the top of my list in that category. Because how could you not? Like, here we are, a bunch of beautiful men, wearing some flannel iteration,
45:10 standing in, I don't know, what is it? A marsh. The shorts and the tights. Yeah. Everything is. Amen. He's got the hat, babe. Everything is fucking...
45:20 An environmentally preserved wetlands. Yes. It's so Seattle. It's like everyone's hair looks gorge. They had to recut that video to put more Eddie veteran in it because ProDiam got famous. Like, it has everything. Okay. I have two picks at the turn.
45:33 Yeah. This is a fun exercise. Because you're laughing at me, but it's like, now are you going to be the guy who picks... Well, I have an obvious but not so obvious. with my pick when you were like here's why your pick is wrong. I think everybody was like your pick is right but like we just wanted to like throw some ideas at you. You gotta discuss these things.
45:51 Things need to be interrogated. Otherwise what's the point? You always be like, oh, well done. We could just post the selection. Yeah, that's what Christ did and it was perfect. He said that's the right choice. Like warmth and friendship. This is his brand.
46:01 It's not my brand. Being nice. It's not my brand. I'm going to pick album. Okay. Since no one has picked it. Do you know what I'm going to pick? I have a feeling I know what you're going to pick.
46:10 I have a feeling I know what you're going to pick. Do you? Well, I actually know that inside of you are two wolves. Uh-huh. And there's the one that wants to win, and there's the one that you actually listen to. The one that actually listen to is in utero, and that's what I'm taking. I don't agree with you. That's an interesting choice.
46:24 I was unexpected. In-Utero is by far my favorite, Grunge album. Okay. I think you could make the case. It's also the end of grunge. I don't agree. Could make the case. What is 93?
46:44 No. But I think in what it's, trying to accomplish where they're like make it noisier make it less pleasant make it the feeling of somebody like actually having a crisis right um and obviously like you talked to you guys talked on the albini episode about what he brought to that and the experience of working with him and the self-awareness in the writing on that album which is like a full-blown rejection of everything that they had achieved up into that point that pearl jam achieved that all those bands were achieving at that, like the status that they were accumulating at that time. It's also
47:19 just the album that I think I like listening to the most. So it's just more of a personal, emotional pick. And I think because I was too young, I don't know if you felt this way, but I felt like I was maybe too young to fully understand what Kurt was writing about on Nevermind. I didn't have, while I like owned that album, just like tens of millions of other people and was super into the hits and everything and listened to it all the time. I don't think I was like paying attention as closely to the writing that he was doing as I was when in utero came out and like the anticipation around it and then the kind of like you could feel the casuals being like oh this is like too weird for me or too noisy there was also something really interesting and obviously like
47:58 incredibly painful for him where when that record came out when in utero came out it was like live Wikipedia where people were like this line is in reference to this photograph of him with Courtney or this is like in reference to the response this magazine had. to this quote. Like, it was like very decipherable in a way that like actually lived up to the anticipation and hype. It became like, well, I just guess we just all live inside of this album now for in perpetuity. Yeah.
48:29 Like I felt like friends at school were like, like, I don't like this. I'm kind of surprised you hear you say this as someone who was famously a 10 year old Miles Davis fan. Uh-huh. As you said on the podcast. So it's like, I would have thought. I think I said I was 10 when I was like Miles Davis. Okay.
48:42 Yeah. When you were like, I was looking at Miles Davis and Ledz up. and I don't know why you didn't have a broader taste range. I think two things that actually never mind, it didn't matter what it was about because it communicated so primally the emotion that like my 10, 11 year old self completely like was blown away and sucked into it by being able to just commune with the emotion. I didn't need to know what he was on about, if you will. Like it didn't matter. I totally agree. I mean, I had the same experience.
49:10 Yeah. I was so Nirvana-pilled by this point. So, like, I don't even remember if other kids were into in utero or not. It's funny because... But didn't it feel like everybody had nevermind? Yeah, yeah. And for me, at least, at school, everybody was talking about that nonstop. They did days of coverage on MTV about, like, the waiting for this to come out, it coming out.
49:29 Like, yeah. Like, there was, yeah, I just felt like it was like a national event. And also visually, to your point, I think was also sidestepped away from what grunge was because it was so bright. Like, the videos and stuff. the even album art it was so bright and almost cartoonish in a way that it hadn't been no sepia tones anymore you know it's true but also there was like there's kind of like um an outsider art like trying to shock you quality to the album cover oh yeah to uh rate me the song to the heart shape box video which is kind of like phantasmagorical the old man and the santa hat yeah yeah like all that stuff is so creepy and
50:09 distancing purposefully. Like you could feel him or them making choices to undo some of what happened the first time around. So, or second time around, I guess. But just from like a pure song's perspective, it's like a release album for me. It's very funny. I'll just say since I can't draft it anymore, mine was going to be incesticide, which is a very pick-mey. You know, I'm not like other girls' choice. But it's just true.
50:32 That's actually incredibly pick-me that you made sure you everybody knew that you were going to take incestricide. All of it is to me. I don't pretend to not be a pick me, you guys. I have another pick. Yeah, go ahead. Should I make it? I just wanted to remind everyone about when Sierra and Rob corrected me on how to pronounce insecticides with their whole chest to the point that I reneged the way I said it.
50:52 I still think we're right about that somehow. I feel like history will redeem us somehow. Yeah. Well, you said it was insecticide. Both of them. We've always been at war with Eurasia. And I was like, oh, I guess I must be wrong because these two older men are. These two older men.
51:09 We did. We did. It was a very grunge thing of us to do. I was going to say, that's very patriarchal. I'm surprising from you, especially. Especially. Okay. Sorry, Rob.
51:19 Well, you're at least, you at least are a father. That's, there we go. It's my father. Okay. In RIF, I will be a normie and just take a live. Which. Someone had to. I think is probably the signature riff of the grunge era, right?
51:42 Yeah. It is the, those first four notes, you're like, okay, we're in 1992. Totally. And we're in Seattle and this guy from Chicago came over and now he's in a band. Via San Diego, yeah. That band was called Mookiee-Blaylock. That was called Darren O'Shea of Mookiee Blaylock. I also am not a musicologist like you, so I don't really know how to explicate why this riff is sick other than just to say that even as bored by 10 as I am at this stage of my life.
52:09 This still, like, I feel it. Bro, Stone Gosser was cooking with gas at that time. I had the juice. All this shit that that man came up with. Just him alone is crazy. Fully agree. I did have a Nirvana song near the top of my list here, but since I took in utero, I could not take it. A lot of great. A lot of great.
52:27 So that's my pick. Okay, so it's Rob's turn. It is my turn. I'm torn in two directions on album. Mm-hmm. Am I cool or am I not cool? I don't think I'm cool, really. I think we can rule out cool.
52:42 I'm going with Purple by Stone Temple Pilots. Great pick. I think you need something a little disreputable here. Obviously, it's an amazing pick. I'm unwell. I love this album and I talked about it with you on the show. But as the man who would not cover Stone Temple Pilots on 60 songs, frankly, shame on you. Like, what the hell is that?
53:07 Well, see, this is, wow, that is very aggressive song, first of all. Well, there is sort of a makeup call element to this, I think. I've been thinking about this record a lot. I think you need something disreputable. I think you need an interloper. I think you need a record that people were arguing about, whether it was grunge, whether it was good, whether it was authentic, whether they were real,
53:34 whether they were bandwagoners. I think that tension helps this record in retrospect. You know, it wasn't immediately hallowed, you know, as this life force changing thing, right? You know, it had to fight for its reputation over time. And I do think that it has endured. Like, when I think about grunge, when I think about just alternative rock in the 90s,
53:58 I just think about the songs that were blasting out of all the cars in my high school parking lot. You know, and what percentage of those people I thought were cool or who thought I was cool, right? And just the big empty was ubiquitous in that sense. You know, like Vaseline was ubiquitous. Interstate Love Song, you know, these songs that weren't like the critical favorites were not like the frontrunners, you know, we're not the Mount Rushmore type people.
54:25 But like this is the stuff people actually loved. This is the stuff people actually had on repeat. And I just think this is the record, you know, in its ubiquity, you know, and in its infamy a little bit, I think sort of stands apart for me now when I look back. Yassi is just cracking up and like looking on the internet. I'm just shocked by this pick. I think it's, I'll say it. Counterpoint.
54:50 What is that what you said? When he went ahead and said I was wrong. Sure. I just think this is neither grunge nor even the best STP album. But isn't that the point? Isn't like this is the glam rock STP record and they kind of like. It's not though. No, it's not.
55:10 That's the next one. Tiny music. Oh, is that tiny music? This is like a weird, like. It's an amalgam of, of, it's two types of, it's their middle ground. It's their middle ground, but it's definitely like, Interstate Love Song is not a grunge song. It's like country rock, eagle song. Whereas like black by Pearl Jam, I would say is a grunge song.
55:29 Yeah, it's a grunge ballad. A grunge ballad, you know what I mean? And then you love Allison Chains so much. Oh, that was on the table. You did it. Tiny Music, okay. Yeah, Big Big Big Baby is on. I was, when we talked about it on the show, I was definitely.
55:41 more of a purple person than you are. In fairness, I also don't love this album. I think it's good. Big empty is a fucking jam. I like core and tiny music better than I like. I don't like interstate love song. It makes me feel unwell. I love it. I love it unconditionally, but it was also like, it was on Z100 all the time, the
56:00 pop station. Like it was a pop breakthrough. Yes. Yeah. Where do you guys fall in Candlebox? I don't think anyone's going to drop Candlebox and I don't want to stop you if you will. I wouldn't be so sure. CR dropped a candle box reference to me in person.
56:11 yesterday. I had that Kisinglebe with the middle finger. But it was it was a, what's it called? It's just a skeleton X-ray. Oh, X-ray with the middle finger. Sick as hell. I don't remember sick as hell. I don't know, I'm just curious. Okay, Rob, well, I support you. Okay, Stone Temple Pilots, fascinating
56:31 pick. Not really, but okay. Fascinating, bizarre, crazy pick and I don't understand it at all, but I support you. I think it's a great record. Sean is happy, even though for the wrong reasons. It's not a correct pick. Okay.
56:48 Who is it? Now me again? Your turn. Wait, tell me the rule again. If someone picks something, you can't pick it in a different category. Correct. Motherfucker. You can pick a different, like, something they did, but it can't be the same thing.
57:03 But it can't just be like, now I'm taking this song. Rob ruined my life is all I have to say. I'm going to go with VIII. video. The weird choice, you guys. So maybe this is my pet thing that like Chris was saying. Smashing Pumpkins, 1979. Not crunch.
57:24 This is not crunch. I know. But the video is of the time. So you think even the video is, even the song is not grunge and the video is not grunge? Let's ask your dad. My dad who just drafted purple by Stone Tava Pilots as if his now has. I think my choice. think purple is more defensible as grunge than the 1979 video i agree with what aspect of that
57:52 video speaks is grunge to you the trashing of the pool like the the the the the tepeeing like what is yeah i didn't have the fact that it sounds like shoegays new order it's such a wistful tune too which is so not you let though but you know what you just did you broke the seal yeah and now anything is possible, the rainbow is up in the sky. I think Rob did that. How is that? Now it's safe for me to draft Wutang. So, thank you. Thank you for what you've done.
58:23 Now I can draft waves. Cream is very grunge. Cream is more grunge than 1979. I'll say that. Frankly, I agree with you. I feel terrible at this choice. You guys have made me feel terrible with my choice. It's a, it's somebody needed to do it, I think.
58:37 Okay. I think somebody, I, there was, there is a smashing pumpkins conversation to be had. I'm surprised there's a couple of other it's not even necessarily grungier, but... You think today is a more grungy video? Today is very bright. I guess it's like, why are you picking 1979?
58:51 Because you think it's grunge or because you like the video? Because I have a video that I'm going to take that's not grunge, but I think I have something to say about grunge because of it. I see. I guess I honestly don't think there were that many good grunge videos is what I kind of, it came down to when I was doing this research. So that might be why I only have two picks. Because like the one I, obviously I want to do tumble of the dog
59:12 because I think that's it. Like, the other ones that are famous, I don't think, are good. Like, I think grunge videos kind of replicated themselves a bunch of times. There's one that I think is really good, but because it wasn't on MTV, and I only learned about it way later after the fact I didn't think it was fair. I've got one in my back pocket that I really like, but it's not one of the traditional ones. Is it oceans with the Oakley Loss? It's not.
59:35 Well, I guess I should have spent more time at 3 a.m. thinking about the video, but now I've been shamed. You know what it is? I think if it was any song on Science. any's dream it would have been more acceptable than any because infinite call in melancholy and the infinite sadness so much later is 95 and also I think is a big part of the like this era is over but we're doing dramatic reenactments of 1920 silent films yeah but that's not this video this video to me I guess maybe I'm just conflating grunge with my youth because this video
01:00:03 to me is like then then it's being in middle school and going to parties or being in a freshman and like running around it's like it's like the Kegger House Party free, free craziness that I felt that kind of associated with this almost style of music, which goes back to the grunge is not a real thing. And, you know, alternative music is probably the larger category. And but I hear you guys. I think you're right. I think you should hold it and be proud of it. I don't have a choice. Okay. I can't go back. I can't pick another video because don't let me. I'm here for the discussion. I'm here for the chat too. I think Rob and I both reacted very strongly because we probably associate in 1979 with other genres than crunch.
01:00:48 But crunch is a fake genre. And actually, once the work leaves the artist, you know, it's up to us to decide. And that's why I'm taking Courtney Love as front person. That's a good one. She was definitely like the leader of a band that I was most transfixed by. C.R. said, I'm an ally. No, that's not what I mean. I mean, I mean, I just, I just, I, I think if I think back to this period of time and the most like clear memories I have, it's seeing her a Lollapalooza in 95, same, like, pretty like obsessively keep like, like, listening to doll parts and doll parts being like this massive song and then Miss World as like, probably my favorite album from this era.
01:01:32 You mean live through this? Live through this. being my favorite album for this era. I am the girl. Whether or not it's like you define it as grunge, I completely hear that, but you can't argue that she wasn't a part of this. One million percent. I think it's like if you want to just go off of like Wikipedia or guitar magazines, 50
01:02:10 best, whatever, you're always going to find a hole on there. Yeah. Hull is one of those bands that probably like STP where you could say, like that album, you could make the case that it's grunge, but then they don't make any more their grunge albums. Sure. And the first album is punk. Yeah.
01:02:26 It's not grunge. And the third album is very similar to melancholy to me where it's like a rejection. It's like, not this. Okay. Not to like harp on 1979, but it's very funny because did we, I don't know if Rob and I, we talked about this one in our opus to smashing pumpkins. I always find it weird that 979 is on melancholy because I actually do think it's tonally more Siamy's dream.
01:02:47 Really? That's interesting. Yeah, because I think there's like a theatricality to the rest of melancholy that like 19709 to me is closer to today, that it's like more of this sort of like youthful, wistful. I think if there was something on Melanchi I call grunge, it would probably be bullet with butterfly wings. No, or I think muzzle. I think muzzle is the one that is the most like muzzle. I'm not saying, I'm not making the case in 1970s grunge. I just don't even think Siamese dream is grunge.
01:03:13 It's interesting because like, I think this would fit back on that. Simony's dream is also not a grunge album. Siamese dream is like a thick, fuzzy, like you said, kind of like Shugay's classic rock-adjacent album, I don't think it's a grunge album. Right. Melancholy and Biggie's Life After Death were probably the first double albums of my, like, youth. And so I listen to, I listen to Melancholy a lot. And I just think tonight, tonight has like skewed everyone's perspective, myself included on like what the album actually is. Like zero is on that album. Like there's a lot of like hard rock. It's like closer to metal than it is. X, Y, you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Billy was in his bag. Oh, to no one?
01:03:48 I mean, that's a cool album. It's a great album. Also, the next album, very good. No one likes to say it. None of their albums are consistently anything, you know, I guess, except for Machina. You know what's the most grunge album is probably gish? But even that's a stretch, I think, personally. I don't know why.
01:04:02 You know what? I had a stroke, and I picked 979. And I don't care. You guys, I'm really tired. It's been a really long season. I just want you guys to understand. Are you skipping past the Courtney Love conversation? No, no.
01:04:14 No, no. I agree with you. I think, A, my own personal thing about the maleness of it is also there. Like, I think, I think in some ways grunge was ghettoizing too, which for better or for worse. Yeah. I think if we're talking about broadly this era without applying a genre term to it, Courtney Love hands down, well, I still would back Chris Cornell as like neck and neck. But, yeah, Courtney Love is the most captivating presence.
01:04:42 Presence. Yeah. And to be fair, it's not like she was like, whiling away in obscurity in West Texas. Like, you know what I mean? Like, she was very much a part of this. She was a pop star. She was something that I don't think any of these other frontmen were, with the exception
01:04:56 of Weiland in the middle period, which was like she was confrontational. That's what I'm saying. So like, again, I think to be grunge, there had to be this like, how do I say, woe is meanness to it, this like almost self-pity baked into the anger. and like for some of them's righteousness, like an Eddie Vedder. To answer your question, I stick by my choice because I, again, I really do believe it's like a specifically male form of. So you're just trying to recognize male excellence in this draft is sort of your point. Well, everyone knows I'm a male ally.
01:05:32 Everyone knows I'm an ally to the Patriarch. I work at the ringer. We've had a little bit of winded our back recently and I think it's Yassie. Are men back? I think men may be back. see what the movie is You said it, not me Chris, you have another pick, right?
01:05:50 I do, yeah. I did not expect to have a chance to take this. So I guess I'll do it even though I plan on taking a different album is I will do Pearl Jam versus for album. Nice.
01:06:05 I kind of was like, oh, my vision of this was like, I'm going to be picking fourth. Everybody's going to take the Big Mount Rushmore picks and then I'm going to just pick off these little like obscurities. And I actually wasn't even planning on taking an album
01:06:24 until like last because I was like nobody's going to take my album. But now I guess I just have to I have to take Pearl Jam. Crayvan. What was your album? Mudhoney's Superfuzz, Big Muff. You should have gone with your heart and now I don't respect you. Okay. Now I feel you've shown us that you're trying to win
01:06:41 instead of being honest. Probably the second best slash best album of this whole group in the fourth round. that's pretty big. You think that's what versus is. I'm not, I'm not criticizing. I think so. Is that what you think versus?
01:06:56 Is that your favorite progen record? No, Vitology is my famously, my favorite proton. I was going to say, I would pick Vitology over. Really? I'm curious, though. They're close, but I, Vitology. I think it boils down to which of the songs resonate more with you because they're both exactly the same amount of uneven.
01:07:14 And it just depends what hits harder for you. For me, Vitology hits harder because I like that it's ten. it's 10 to 20% weirder. It definitely is. That's when there was like accordion song about bugs and like, but it also has
01:07:25 stupid mop. Stupid mob. It's just, it's a fucking, the album art makes me want to KMS, but other than that, sorry, go ahead.
01:07:33 I just, I don't want to listen to the like purposeful, like, projection weirdo songs at this stage of my life, but I do want to listen to dissident. You know what I mean?
01:07:43 Like, I do want to listen to elderly women. So, get go going. Yeah. Yeah. Go about. his car. Yeah, great.
01:07:50 Dissidence is a good song. I love... glorified G. It's a rough one. It's a rough hang. You like that song? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. He's, I mean, he was, he was gun control. He was on it. Yeah, about Dave Abruzzi, who had to sit, it was about his guns, and he had to sit and play drums on that song. Well, the disrespect.
01:08:08 Don't buy guns, you know? I don't know what to say. Don't buy guns. He's from Texas, honey. So those are my picks. Courtney Love for Front Person and Pearl James versus for album. You're like a, the particular scary kind of Supreme Court justice who's like absolutely went with your like justice prevails pick and then went straight
01:08:27 with your like the politicians paid me pick. Yeah. Well, one for that one for me. Okay, so now it's my turn. I have to redeem myself, I guess. What do you think you're missing? Do you think you're missing a home run? Do you think you're missing something really like a personal piece of flare like you're working at Benegans? So you've got you've got front person. Yeah. You've got music. video and you've got album
01:08:53 I've only done twice twice okay sorry so I could go album I wish we had one of those like live streams people could like tell you what to do you know I could go album I could go riff riff is like the most rich category don't you agree it's like there's like so many
01:09:09 right answers it's a broad tent yeah I'm gonna leave roof on the table I'll go ahead and do album I'm just trying to decide if I should like go full CR and like disregard myself and I didn't disregard myself. Craven capitalist Chris Ryan.
01:09:24 I just, I picked nearly lost you first and you guys all snickered at me. It's less about wanting to win. It's more about like, do I like. It's not about winning. It's just somebody has to take verses. Like that's, yeah. Should I continue to be a rigid fundamentalist, which is not in my nature? Or should I just like be like, who cares?
01:09:43 Well, I think that you have to think about what you want the colors on your palette to be. And do you want something that's like very core ground? I think the best drafts are both. I think you have one or two picks where you're just like, this motherfucker is just trying to win. And then you have two picks where you're like, what's wrong with that person? Pick what you listen to. Whole live through this is my album choice. That's the best album.
01:10:02 I'll say it of all time. All right. Not even within this time frame. Not even ever. It's just song for song all the way through. You should learn when it's go. So then you did break your rule. That's what I'm saying.
01:10:20 So I went against my inside me. There are two wolves. like you said. And one is trying to be a rigid fundamentalist, although I'm not that. You guys have infected me with your menness. What do you mean? You invited us on the show. You're the one making all the rules about this.
01:10:37 You made all the rules. No, I just made the categories. I met one rule, which was I won a dummy that had Rob's face on it. That was not allowed. Everything else. I think that dummy might have drafted better than I am, honestly. Would you say that your favorite songs on live through this have any, grunge bones.
01:10:55 Yeah, I was listening today, and I was like, there's like a riff-e-ness. Is that a right word? Yeah. Don't you feel? Like violet. Violet. Violet. I mean, Jennifer's body.
01:11:07 Gutless. Gutless. Yes, famously Rob's favorite song. Because I was listening to Rockstar and I was trying to decide if that has that quality. Like, if you took Rockstar and, like, played it for an alien and it was like, what, era was this made from? Or do you think that this is grunge or whatever? You know what it's missing for me?
01:11:24 me, which is what you brought up earlier, I don't think there's a lot of reverence from like metal. You know, like, I don't see the like Led Zeppelin. It's way more punk. But it's also not in Nirvana. So it's like, and arguably if by my own metrics, I would say Nirvana is also not Grudgeon. And then grunt collapses like a house of cards. Yeah.
01:11:44 I guess like building blocks for Nirvana in my head are always bands that either inspired some metal bands or like the Beatles like the Beatles or Beatles inspired every guitar but that's kind of my point or like Pixies and Pixies or Pixies or Pixies heard Black Sabbath you know what like Frank Black knows what that is or like the pastels like kind of twey Scottish CR right right was it called the CR take yeah C80s yeah whatever they were C80s C83 is the CR 83 it's just like McCabe movies from the 90s so yeah by that the CCO at the movie is the Sierra movies so yeah by that I
01:12:23 I'm dismantling the whole thing. Burn it all down. The bridge of, I think, that I would die where she lost all her innocence. She said, I am not a feminist. It gives me the chills. Wow, you did get goosebumps. I did. I can't, remember I cried at the live show talking about?
01:12:46 Like, literally cried on state talking about it. It's so important to me. Right next to me. Yeah. After annihilating Rob for 90 minutes. You did. That was a total. Yeah.
01:12:57 That was rough. Anyways, I love Whole of Fills. Whole of Fives was the single most important album of my young life. And that's it. That's all I have to say about them. Rob, you're up. Okay. I think I'm going front, man.
01:13:10 I'm going Lane Staley. Fuck. We knew it. I think this is. You had to see that coming. I was hoping I could get one more pick through. Yeah. What is it about Lane Staley, Rob?
01:13:20 So can you not take Kurt? I can't take Kurt. Interesting. Why? Because I've already taken in utero. Oh, I forgot about your guys. Go ahead, Rob. Great pick. Great pick. Thank you. Thank you. This is the voice for me, right?
01:13:32 You know, I just in any context, like I was listening to the Mad Season record, right, which is pretty minor in his catalog, but just, you know, the jazziness, like the nocturnal aspect of it, you know, just it's the acoustic stuff, the Jar of Flies era that spoke to me the most when I was a teenager, you know? And then when I was an angsty young adult, like I got back into dirt, you know, facelift. Like there, there's, there's, there's. so many facets to him. And he is the voice. His is the voice that I have not heard replicated convincingly by anyone else since. Right? You know, like you can listen to a lot of people try and, you know, do an Eddie Vedder or do a do a Kirkobain or do a Scott Weiland or whatever. But I just think there's a singularity to the intensity, you know, to the passion of Lane's voice that's still speaking to me and still like I'm still finding new facets in now. Yeah. When I went on 60 songs, it was to talk about Pantera.
01:14:49 And I was talking about a good friend of mine. Classic, classic episode. Rob, what happened? What happened that week? Desperate? Nobody else available. And I think I might have, we might have talked about this, Rob. I can't remember if I actually talked to you about this. But I had a friend in high school who was really.
01:15:05 into hard rock, or close to metal, like in that middle ground, but was a grunge fan. And when I would get in his car, he drove a red Ford Explorer, classic Long Island shit. We always listen to Pantera, corrosion of conformity, Ozzy solo records, typo negative, and River of Deceit. That was the only... That was a fucking sick song. It's an amazing song. The Come Down.
01:15:32 River of Deceit is the one, man. But that was the contemplative one. Yeah, and Lane on River of Deceit is unreal. That's an amazing song. My pain is self-chosen. That's the one. That's beautiful. It's also like, that's the same.
01:15:55 Remember there was this same math with like guys in Boston who listened to like converge and things that sounded like converge 99% of the time and the rest of their life, they just listen to Morrissey. Oh, yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. The soft or the hard. Yeah. This is the argument that I think we made Rob on our episode, though, was that Allison Chains is the most populous of the grunge bands.
01:16:20 What do you guys think? I'm curious. I love that episode that you guys did. Is it because I also cried in that one? It's just an amazing story. I mean, they're just such an incredible band. Yeah. Yeah.
01:16:30 It's a very dynamic, like, I think Soundgarden was kind of difficult to do because they're very not forthcoming. Like, they're so mysterious this band. And, like, even, you can read a thousand interviews with them. They don't say anything. Like, you never really understand what's going on with them. And I think they're more cerebral, like, as musicians and their shit's all over. And, like, again, I'm doing theater right now performance. But it's, like, different time signatures, you know?
01:16:55 Whereas, like, Lane Staley and Jerry Cantrell had this, like, classic, I write the songs. You sing them bass for more or less. And, like, weren't doing any fancy stuff. You know what I mean? I really, I think they, like, to your point. of your friend. I think they were like that crossover for a lot of hard rock fans, which is why, do you guys, there's another TikTok that I was like crying laughing. It was like a fake hard rock station ad. And it's like naming funny like DJ names. And then one part's like, we play man in the
01:17:25 box more than any other station every single day. I was like, yeah, exactly. Like that's what Allison Chains ended up being. But also it's so interesting because Lane Staley arguably had the most vulnerable voice. Like his voice is the most clearly embodying pain in a way that you can like palpably feel it which wouldn't go along with that
01:17:49 but maybe like you know the men like your friend with the red Ford Bronco were like kind of use that as like their outlet to like it definitely was like he was like I know Lane can get down yeah and rock but so like if he wants to do this that's cool like that's cool like that you could yeah right
01:18:05 but he he for his sensitivity training or management like you needed that i don't for nutshell babe well that that was what i was going to say is like to me the songs maybe i'll maybe i'll draft one of these songs that i still listen to all the time by them but nutshell is one of those songs that like uh it's hard to listen to honestly i like skip it sometimes it's really a person in a lot of pain and who is like i didn't want this for myself and i can't believe i'm stuck in this cycle of like being written about in magazines and feeling like awful about who I am and what happened to me and how everybody thinks about me. And it's really, it's like, it's tough.
01:18:40 And it's obviously beautiful and he's such a great singer. It's such as a singular kind of voice. It's also like one of the things I remember a lot about them. I was never like the biggest Allison Chains person when I was younger or, you know, I like, they're not like a huge band for me. But like I also really remember the soap operatic quality of this quote unquote genre at the time, which was kind of like you were, you kind of, I mean, it's, it sucks, but you would basically be tuning into your stories at night.
01:19:03 Because they would be like, Lane's in rehab. They were about that like, following a lot. And this is what's up with these people. Like, here's some paparazzi footage. And then like weirdly like unplugged played this like crazy like, okay, here's the check in point. It's like when I remember when Alice Chainston didn't unplug that was like, Lanezaly hasn't played a concert in years, right? Like he was like not well.
01:19:25 Yeah. But I mean, he pulled it off beautifully. Great, great choice, Rob. I have two picks. Okay. I think I have to. Everybody has a lead singer now except for me. Yeah.
01:19:43 You're going to do it. You can't do it. You can't do it. I'm going to take Scott Weiland. Why are you? What is that? You've already got your pics. No, I just, I'm disappointed in you.
01:19:54 There's somebody else you wanted me to take? I just think, like, again, fundamentally, I don't find him to be a good. You put him on this season, didn't you? Yeah, but the season was like, who cares, vibes? We already made this. Whatever, you're right. Is there an iconic frontman that hasn't been? Well, I can't take Kurt.
01:20:09 Yeah. Yeah. So if I could take Kurt, obviously, that would be a thing. So I guess no one will take Kurt? Have you drafted? I guess nobody's taking Vedder. Oh, you just did Lane. No one's taken Vedder.
01:20:17 But I already took. Also, if you wanted to be really, I'm not like other girls, you could have done Mark Arm. So I have Mark Arm, Shannon Hoon and Billy Corrigan on this list. Shannon Hoon. Three like also Rams. Well, that's why I'm taking Scott Weilant. Yeah, okay. Because I don't really have any other moves.
01:20:32 Because my inner cop is coming out. It's really. It is a little bit. And it's because I keep watching the television program, the rookie, which is cop again. that I do love. And Chris Ryan continuously refuses to let me come on the watch and talk about the rookie.
01:20:46 I've never seen a second of it. Well, it can start now. Anyways, go ahead, Sean. Sorry to interrupt you. Talk about Scott Wilde. I mean, I spoke at length about Scott with you. An amazing frontman. Maybe not the quintessence of grunge.
01:21:00 And I think he was kind of molded by his producer in that first album and that pushed him in a certain direction. But when you see in the second and third albums, like what kind of performer he really is and how bowie he is. And how good he was at that kind of like monkey. You know what I mean? Like trying to like ape that style of performance.
01:21:16 And a great singing voice and a variable singing voice could sing a lot of different kinds of music. Cool looking guy. Great dancer. Like kind of all the stuff that you're talking about with Cornell, like had a great presence on stage. Cool looking guy. Great dancer. Tragic life. Very tragic life.
01:21:49 Just like Lane's painful to read about and to talk about. Yeah. And I like a lot of his songs. That is tricky to take him there because. he's the only pick I want to make, but then that means I can't take STP in any other category. I'm surprised that you did this. I did this to myself, unfortunately. This is a tough one.
01:22:04 The rules that you guys implemented made it very hard. Oh, boy. Okay. Well, I am going to take, for my second pick, in radio hit, I'm going to take an Allison Shane song that I love. Okay. That I think speaks to like the both sides. I stay away, which is, you may remember a,
01:22:26 a claymation video when claymation was all the rage in the 90s Yeah they should bring it back on that is like This is simultaneously I think the best of like Jerry Cantrell finger picking weird 12 string majesty And then crazy Lane vocal performance like going to the tippy top of his register Plus November Rain style
01:22:48 Orchestral support So it's kind of like all of the thing It is like the height of grunge and also like Not grunge at all. Like, it's like Queens Reich. Also famously from Seattle. Queens Reich is a really good framing for it. I like that a lot.
01:23:03 The silent lucidity. Yes. Of course there, because Allison Chains was a metal band that is from near where Queensrack is from. And they started out with that DNA. And I really like that song. And I listen to it all the time.
01:23:21 Great song. I'm surprised no one. This is why we put the rules in, though, and obviously the rules have come back to bite me in a pretty profound way. I think we're getting more interesting picks because of it. I can't believe my picks. It was 1970. In a way where you're like happy about it?
01:23:35 No, I feel shame. I feel shame. Yeah. No, we're in real chaos hours here, I think. I got radio hit and I got riff. Yeah. My radio hit is tomorrow by Silverchair.
01:23:48 Let's do this. Wow. Do what? This is the moment where I was like grunge. Grunge is forever. This is when you live and die for, live and die for grunge. A young prince has come to pick up the crown and walk forward for us. From Australia.
01:24:14 He's like 12 years old or whatever he is. He's like, I guess this is the thing that everybody is everywhere in the world now. You had the chance to redeem yourself here. And at the very least, if you were going to export grunge to overseas jobs, you could have at least picked a Bush song to redeem yourself from famously excluding them. frontman. I considered Gavin for front man. I feel like in terms of the bands that I ignored, the STP was the
01:24:44 pandering pick. Picking both Bush and STP. I'm not saying it's a great pick. It's a great pick. Radio hit. Radio hit was the category Rob that I got most kind of like tantalized by like what could we possibly call grunge? This is what you texted me about Spunge. Right. Because I was asking Yassi whether or not Spong
01:25:02 is plowed. On Wikipedia Spong. Spong is under the list of grunge grunge artists Sponge is absolutely grunge I will ride for sponge any day as a good I love sponge
01:25:14 I don't know if I'll ride with it and this is really more my playing field where I feel most comfortable but this is post alternative yeah oh my god
01:25:22 is an interesting like season idea with you guys if this was an alternative it would just be it's like a fun like era to talk through it's way more
01:25:31 one hit and two hit wonders it's not it's less good for the bandsplaining part and more good for the just talking about songs you like part 100% but have you ever considered that just talking about songs shorter and doing less work has never crossed my own songs I like there are literally a thousand alternative rock songs released between 1994 and 99 yeah there's not I mean obviously like
01:25:55 Rob you could have done some of those and did do some of those but not a lot did you do Possum Kingdom I did not do Possum Kingdom yet another egregious oversight mindful I'm sorry tomorrow is a it's a good and he like nailed the voice of
01:26:11 Yes I'm a grunge singer The toadies guy No that's silver chair Daniel Johns is his name Also a fellow podcast That's cool If you had asked me
01:26:22 What year that song came out I would have said like 96 97 No it's earlier It was fall of 94 Yeah it's pretty early Well I thought it was even earlier It's pretty impressive Pretty impressive
01:26:32 Turnaround time especially when you consider like the time zones that's what yeah yeah well he gained a day they had a 16 hour lean lean you're right you're right you're right you're right it worked in his favor that's a good point yeah he was in the future at winter summer there so like yeah nonetheless did silver chair like pop off no uh i think people instantaneously identified the cynicism of this do you think they were famous in australia in a different way that they were famous here it's very possible like a margot robbie He married Natalie and Brulia. Natalie and Brulia.
01:27:05 Is that true? Yeah. Which also shocked to find torn by Natalie and Brulia on Europe after Grunge playlist. Well, it was a mainstream rock hit. That was, that was definitionally after Grunge. Yeah. Torn. Yes, it came after.
01:27:19 Like Lisa Loeb, same thing. It was like a version of like, yeah. Gal with the guitar. Well, you know. I know she didn't. I know Natalie Brulay didn't play. Jules. Jules.
01:27:28 Edna Swap song, which is a California. Garage, yeah. It's not a big deal. It's a cover. It's fine. And actually was first covered by a Norwegian woman. It was called Brandt. Not debating the historicity of torn.
01:27:41 Is history a word? Yeah. Good pick, Rob. Do you have another one? Thank you. Was that your second one? Yeah, he's... No, well, I have a pick left, but it's...
01:27:51 We got to come back from it. Okay. Okay. Did they have a second hit? That's what I was asking. Did Silverchair have... Is Freak or Israel's son, like a hit? No.
01:28:00 They weren't really played on MTV. Pure Massacre. Like that, that's another Silverchair song. I don't think they had another hit. Did Todies have two hits? They had two hits, right? I think they did have a second song. They had a second song.
01:28:10 That was. I'm sure Silver Tchere had a second single, but I don't remember it getting any burn. Silver Tories released a single in 2020 called Pins in My Needles. Is it good? I don't know. A little few bars. Well, I think. Okay.
01:28:24 I'm going, what I really should do is pick radio song. But it's just, it's just me and CR left. right yeah we gotta come back around no I know but on radio songs I picked my radio song oh yeah it was my first one so it's really just me yeah so it's really just me yeah so then I can save that one unless you think I might pick it for music video I guess oh I see okay this is interesting it's like weirdly the move was to not pick the obvious bands at the beginning yeah to give yourself more flexibility towards the end but I tried that and I got I got I got cucked by Eddie Vedder and I had to pick it versus more ways than one yeah I got cucked by Eddie better is so just
01:29:00 horrific sentence that I can't erase from my mind. I'm going to pick RIF. Okay. And the feminism, you guys, has reentered my body. Okay. I'm picking shove by L7. L7 considered a grunge band. So that was, so there's like the L7, Verruca Salt.
01:29:26 If I had to like gut pick, if I'm being sort of raw shock, like what is this? For me, Veracassault, not grunge. What is it? I don't know. Alternative Rock. But isn't that like 93? 90 is, is that really? Is that what does, is grunge determined by what?
01:29:45 Because it is true. I was going to ask. Era matters, I was going to ask, I was actually going to ask CR and Rob because they're older than us. No offense. Because you were more sentient. It was like basically two years. March.
01:29:57 was two years long, right? It was like the end of 1991 to the end of 1993, basically. Because by 994, they were like, Green Day. Weezer, like, it kind of like sweat. And it was like if Nirvana makes another album is going to sound like REM. Right. You're right, but, okay, so
01:30:11 Sether is March 1994. Yeah. I stay away is also March 1994. It doesn't mean that I Silverchair is September 1994. I think Soundgarden made a bunch of grunge albums. Like, I think Down on the upside is a grunge album. Totally. It is. Down on the upside is a
01:30:27 grunge album. That's 96. I think people really forget how good down on the upside is. Blow up the outside world radiohead moment when I got Windows 95 in my home on my home computer desktop computer sure um it came
01:30:44 with a supposed to your work computer it came with I think quick time I want to say as the video player QuickTime pro and it included 30 seconds of the burden in my hand video and I was like well and I would just play it over and over and over again because I was
01:30:59 like this is being played on a computer and I thought it was incredibly novel I could what part of this song was it? It was the, from the very beginning, the, you know, the opening. Follow me. I love you guys had nothing to say about the actual riff of shove, just that is L7 a grunge band. You think that's the patriarchy? Yes.
01:31:19 You don't like that song? That's actually, you know, it's crazy. That's actually 1990 shove. Is that grunge? It's proto grunge. I mean, that's why I'm like, I don't. But I think it counts. Is bleached grunge?
01:31:32 It was on my list. So yes, that's also... Negative creep was also on my list. Same. It's actually under my... Riff I had the most options for because I felt... Again, I feel this is a very rich category.
01:31:43 Damn, actually... Fuck, I suck at drafting. Because now I actually regret my choice because I really wish I'd pick something else. Well, don't say it. Yossi, where are you on pretend we're dead? Pretend we're dead is a pop song. But I love it.
01:31:56 One of my radio songs. Yeah, but it's a pop song. Or riff. I considered it for riff as well, honestly. Is it not a pop, like, is it fundamentally a pop song to you? It is a pop song, but it's a pop grunge song. It's, it's a pop inflected grunge song or vice versa. It counts in any respect.
01:32:15 I'm so mad at myself right now. Okay, is it my turn or your turn? It's your turn. It's my turn? My music video, speaking of QuickTime and what was waiting for you in QuickTime is Soundgarden fell on Black Day's video. Great video. Short hair, gorgeous. The film.
01:32:39 Dudes rock. And that's what happens in this video is men rock in the video. Black and white shot by Jake Scott, Ridley Scott's son. Interesting. It was sweet relief. After the tyranny of the fellow on Black Day's video, which lasted all summer. No, the tyranny of Black Hole Sun. Black Hole Sun was the most oppressive, horrible.
01:33:01 I've been staring at these lights for like two hours. So like I'm starting to see my own Black Hole Sun. Black Hole Sun just had a tyrannical run. The Children of America needed a change. It's so real. And they shot a film more performance video. And it sounds like almost, I don't know if they recorded it live, but it sounds live-ish. And it's fucking great.
01:33:23 And this is my favorite Soundgarden song. I don't know if I've ever seen this video. I'm excited. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't have a memory of it. I mean, I don't think it's like memorable in the way Black Hole Sun is. you have a black hole sun it sucks
01:33:37 I think I'm gonna go ahead and push back on you I think the song for me is a no thank you You like the video of the person's face melting in the sun I think it's so fucking cool and weird And I think like at the time I was on every nine minutes Sure it is it's not It is undeniably iconic Yeah I don't think I want to watch it ever again
01:33:55 I'm there But I can I have images You do want to watch it again? I do not want to watch it again Oh okay But don't you think it was fucking cool when you were like 12 I did I was like this is cool like they're barbecuing a Barbie like they're like skewering suburbia it was just thought I thought it was cool the melting ice cream is a little much
01:34:15 do you know it was also cool about fell on black days is that albums lasted such a long time in our lives and they had like a whole new look by like the third or fourth single of this record like he cut his hair you know what I mean like isn't that kind of rad like now it's like an album comes out his hair was short in um black hole son too this whole album was I wish we yeah done album cut as well. I wish we had done honestly I wish we had done full best artist. Well if I was doing
01:34:42 that would have been hard. My sound garden video would have probably been spoon man but my wave probably would have been my album cut pit. That is the one maybe that would have been. Fourth of July is my favorite song on that fucking album. It's so fucking good. Super unknown quality.
01:35:00 You know why? Because he was hearing voices. He had an acid trip and so he decided to replicate that on that song. Isn't that so cool? It sounds like that. I'm sorry, I can't help myself. This is what I've become. Yeah, your music pilled. I know you don't like it when I say what I would have picked. It doesn't affect the outcome of the draft because the draft is based on an infographic. So let me cook. Yeah, it's your pod. Go for it. I think Shove was a solid choice despite having zero feedback from you guys. You're now, you're going back to your pick and now saying what you wished you would have picked in RIF, even though I still have RIF.
01:35:29 You underestimate how much you gaslight yourself on the show. It's you are your greatest antagonist, I have to say. I'm probably your second greatest antagonist. It's Yossi versus Yossi. This is why I need three days a week of therapy, and I don't have time to make the show anymore. Because I have to go to therapy full time. But if you were making the show, what would you talk about therapy? Do you think I don't have other problems?
01:35:55 This is my only problem. My only problem is Soundgarden. I would have picked the bass riff from Jeremy. Yeah. But did I already pick a Pearl Jam? I picked a riff from Pearl Jam so you can't pick that. Oh, great. Okay, I feel much better.
01:36:08 I also just wanted to bring this up because a source told me and I can't name it, but I love this information, if it's true, that at Jeff Amen's house in Montana, when you ring the doorbell, it is. The Jeremy Rift? Do you think, I wonder if he gets, uh, publishing. I heard from a very reputable source. Jeff Amant. It was from, he messaged me.
01:36:28 You guys see a sick photo of Jeff Aman the other day wearing like a crass shirt. He's so cool. I stand still Jeff Amet, number one pearl jam member. At the beginning of the season, you were like, oh, I have to spend so much time listening to Pearl Jam, and you are just Pearl Jam. Because it was very unfair of me to conflate the art with the fan base. Yeah, I agree. A little bit of that reverse patriarchy going on right now. What?
01:36:54 There's no such thing as a reverse Patriarchy. You just heard it. I just coined it. Welcome to the Resistance. That's the next Pearl Jam record, actually, is reverse. Patriarchy. Is it my turn? No, it's still my turn.
01:37:07 I'm sorry, Chris, they're gone. It was worth it for that little detail about Jeff A man's doorbell, though. Riff? Houston, we have a problem because another major, major, major, major, major, contributor is still on the board for me here.
01:37:23 But unlike taking verses where I got distracted by the bright lights of Hollywood and I went for it. I'm not only going to pick one of my personal favorite rifts of all time beyond whether it's grunge or not, but I'm also going to push the boundaries of what grunge is a la your 1979 pick. And I'm going to pick Start Chopin by Dinosaur Jr. Yes. I'm so glad you did this. Chris, I'm so... It's two riffs. I'm so in awe of you, first of all. And thank you. And correct. You think it's grunge? I think Dinosaur Jr. counts
01:38:01 in this era. And I, yeah, I'm glad I'm glad you did this. If I, told you they were from Bellingham, Washington, you'd be like, yeah, of course. They're not. Because, and I don't want to get into a whole thing about it, but because in the triangulation of alternative rock music, of which grunge is merely a subsect, dinosaur junior, Jane's addiction, the butthole surfers, the pixies are the godfathers. Is that a triangle? Those are four.
01:38:29 That was, I'm in a triangle. But there is, in Washington. in the French sense. Massachusetts, which creates a triangle. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Listen, I'm not a geometry expert. Okay, I'm simply here to talk music.
01:38:43 There's a little jam band intro. J. Mask is playing. And then that jam band riff turns into crunch rock. And it's fucking awesome. You've kind of stolen my thunder with this pick, but not entirely. Okay. Okay. And I fully agree that Dinosaur Jr. is grunge.
01:39:07 Even though they're not grunge. They are grunge to me. Yeah, I'm glad you tell us because you're setting me up. Great. You're going to do what I wanted to do. Probably. My radio song is Feel the Pain by Ninthor Jr. That was going to be my music video.
01:39:19 That was going to be my... I thought about that for video. It was on video for me too. Spike Jones. You're going to be surprised that I'm not being really generous here, but I almost feel like Phil the pain would then open up like... So the breeders, would the breeders have counted? Like where does it stop?
01:39:43 Well, we're getting there. Like Rob said, it's full chaos. now and I don't you guys made all these I see what you did you made two rules because you understood that fundamentally there are no other rules well it forces us to pick way more bands and talk about way more here's the thing I could have been boring and expected and just picked wait did someone already pick a prole jam song on radio hit yeah no he picked alive yeah that was in rift no it was a rift I could have just done corduroy but like I've done too much of corduroy I want to I want to I want to stand alone for what I believe in punch it in mascus bros yeah and I just
01:40:16 I think feel the pain. I think in the way that black is a grunge ballad, feel the pain is kind of a grunge, a soft grunge. It's a soft grunge. It's also later. That's 94, right? Start shopping's 93.
01:40:30 It's right in the mix. This is major label, dinosaur, is that right? Yeah. Feel the pain at that video. I'm sorry, Sean, that it is a great. It's not, but again,
01:40:41 it's funny. It's in the B tier of Spike videos. I would have loved if you would pick that because then I could have been like that, much like, 1979, that is absolutely not a grunge video. That is an alternative rock pavement head-ass video, and it doesn't count as a grunge video. You're right, but I also still would have taken it.
01:40:55 I know, great. This is what this draft is for. It's for first things first. I'm the night list, is what I always like to say. And who cares? So you have all your picks now? I believe so. And I have all my picks.
01:41:05 Is it your turn? It's Rob's turn. My computer's going to die. I have a riff, and I have to pick the riff that I have had in my head for the two weeks that I've known that I was going to be in a grunge draft. and that is far behind by Candlebox. This is my truth. Nice.
01:41:22 When I think about being a teenager, when I think about the ultra corny, sullen yearning of being a teenager, in what I imagined like adulthood and love and maturity would be like it was encapsulated by far behind by Candlebox. I'm almost positive this song. Rob, you can correct me if I'm wrong, since it's your first. favorite, but maybe you've never done any further investigation. This song is about Andy Wood. I'm almost positive. I have a sense that you are right about that.
01:42:01 The canon of songs that are about, that were inspired. Yeah, I was so fucking right, baby. The stuff that I somehow retained, but then someone will be like, I met you eight times, and I'll be like, no. But candleboxes far behind is about Andrew Wood, mother love bone frontman. Please go on, Rob, sorry. Well, I think part of it is I feel bad for those of us who have read, Mark Yarm's oral history of grunge. Everybody loves our town. I felt so bad for how mean everyone was the candlebox. Like that was the one band. It was okay for everyone to be mean to and about. You know, and just the provincialness of they were from Seattle or they were from the area. Kevin Martin, the front man moved to Seattle at 14, Mercer Island at 14. So ostensibly more from Seattle than Eddie Vedder.
01:42:52 but they were like, they're not even from here. Yeah. I was like, well, he's 14 years old. I mean, he's kind of from here. I just was never a candlebox guy. Nothing against those guys. I just, I couldn't, I never got into it. It did feel, I will say, I can't even explain it because what the fuck did I know as a 11-year-old girl from Torrance, California?
01:43:12 But it did somehow feel like they were appropriating something. I don't know how to, why. It just did. I always categorized them, probably because I was a little younger too. as more in the like gin blossoms, like, generation. Collective soul. Southern Mary three.
01:43:29 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Don't put gin blossoms in that kind of group because that's incorrect. With those three, yes. Gin blossoms is like power. Not in the sound, but just like how they, it was just like this is not the A team. Oh.
01:43:39 And I know this is not the eighth. Like I just know in my bones. Right. That this is not quite on the level. They were also just slightly later, much like Sunno Pilots. They were 93. So by that time, they were like, oh, if you're not here already, you don't. Long care.
01:43:53 It's a good point because everybody, nobody thought STP were cool. No. And nobody thought Candlebox were cool. No. But for some reason, I felt like STP was cool. I connected with them
01:44:04 and I never could connect with Candlebox. I wonder if SDP just had that like a little bit more of a grimy L.A. thing going. Yes. Maybe. It was like industry plant, but it was also like these guys are legit like they play the whiskey kind of thing.
01:44:16 Yeah. Yeah. Also, broadly speaking. Doing cosplay. Yeah. I actually technically from Chigrin Falls, Ohio, near Rob. That's right. Candlebox toured with SDP.
01:44:28 Makes sense. They were embraced. Sure they did. You know who we haven't brought up, which I was wondering? I don't think anyone would have drafted them, but I'm surprised they didn't enter the conversation. I still have a pick. Okay. I don't think you're going to pick them.
01:44:40 Are you going to pick a meat puppets? No, I thought about backwater. Yeah. But I was like, oh, meat in my triangulation, this is part of the triangle. The triangle has many parts to it. It doesn't have to. It's not just points. Okay.
01:44:51 Triangles within the triangle. That's actually not a triangle, what you're describing. I can't have the fucking dummy with the Rob thing on it. You're going to tell me what a triangle is. Here's something you should remember is that all rhombuses are squares, but not all squares are rhombuses. That's right. Were you always like this? Food for thought.
01:45:08 Yeah. Incredibly intelligent and entertaining. Yes. Historically, yes. Keep honking. I'm listening to Miles. This is blue on your bike. Your BMX.
01:45:17 Can we talk about my bike? I'm just assumed. one. I had a bike. Yeah. I was a young boy once. Anyways, I'm interested that no one mentioned meat puppets. I saw the meat puppets open for Stone Temple pilots. So there you go. Yeah. Everyone cheered for backwater. They speak very fondly about a CD. Nobody really noticed them besides. Okay, Sean. I'm taking cannonball by the breeders in music video. Because we opened the floodgates. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great music video. Also, I will say once again, much like Philadelphia, and fundamentally not a grunge music,
01:45:55 much like 1970, I have my own pick. So that's a good point. I think, was it Hunger Strike? Was the only true music video that was taken that is fits the bill?
01:46:04 Yes, correct. Here's my case for it. One, Spike Jones and Kim Gordon directed this video. I wouldn't describe them as avatars of grunge, but they are purveyors of a culture
01:46:16 that created the opportunity for grunge. Not Spike, maybe. Kim Deal was in the band that basically... Kim Diel was in, in the band that basically creates the nirvana sound. And Sonic Youth, too, is clearly, obviously, hugely important to nirvana. I love like the reach.
01:46:35 Here's why this video is grudge. People involved had something to do. Furthermore, maybe there was a gaffer on the 1979 music video that was in a Seattle-based that you meant, we don't know. I also thought you actually had that factoid and I was like, holy shit. You guys would never know. would not have been a hit if Nirvana never happened.
01:46:57 It's something I firmly believe. And obviously there's a circular quality of that. All of those songs though. TOTE's Pawsome Kingdom. Everything that we talked about. This one coming in spring 93 is pretty early, I would say, relative to, and is that the second Breeders record or the first? Second breeders record.
01:47:13 Right. And that video is just sick when it was on all the time. That song still sounds great to me. They're the coolest people. Their outfits, the sock. I watch that video all the time. But it's a weezer-ass video. I mean. It predates, but like that's, it's that random video. Like in bloom, have been a weasor-ass video? Yeah. Okay. I liked videos like that. Yeah. Me too. I want to say the more, the more revealing thing is, you know, what we're not
01:47:37 talking about is that grunge videos were bad. And so I was kind of trying to say is the reason we haven't drafted them is because they're all kind of the same like Scott Weiland's shirtless and like a dark room or like, the Jesus Christ pose video is very good, but never made it on MTV. but that one's very cool, but they're not, the Jeremy video, arguably important. The director's cut, or the, uh, the director's cut, you could argue was an actual good video. The one that was cut wrongly,
01:48:04 maybe it was, you know, what's the famous 10 era Pearl Jam video that's just a live performance? Alive, I think. Because he's like, Josh, turn the lights off. Josh's not a fucking TV. To me, that is like the vision of grunge. To me, it smells like teen spirit.
01:48:22 I can't believe. no one that's the that's the besides Temple of the dog even more than Temple of the dog I think smells like teen spirit is like the quintess Did you take any Nirvana stuff? No I didn't do any Nirvana. I could have taken Smells Like Tiena dress.
01:48:32 I had I was like the riff was down to that or start shopping. Yeah. Or Cherebrook. So you didn't take any Nirvana either. Did anyone draft any of? I took in utero. I should have.
01:48:41 Rob you didn't take any Nirvana. No. Wow. That's shocking. I know I didn't. You know what? I think I've done too many drafts and I've been in Grunschon. I did draft smells like Teen Tart for something else.
01:48:52 In our 1991 draft, I think I did, Rob. Yeah, I was also like, I don't want to draft stuff I've drafted before. Yeah, so maybe even though that's not really, I could have won with that, honestly. But that, to me, that video is the most iconic. Okay, so let me ask you this. We missed Nirvana. Yeah. Going around the room, biggest regret from this draft, not personally, but like, you know.
01:49:12 Let's start with Rob and why was it purple? No, I don't want something you picked, something you didn't pick. Oh, okay. Why was it what you should have picked instead of purple? Well, what I was going to pick instead of purple was, gentleman by the Afghan wigs, I, you know, which I, I would cannotically say as grunge, you know, he was on subpop. They were on subpop. But I just, in terms, in terms of the sourness, the grouchiness, the melodrama, the self-pity, you know, the ultra-browness, you know,
01:49:41 gentleman is one of the records that has aged the best for me. Like, that's one of my favorite albums today, you know, the same way it was when I was a teenager. And that's not something that I'm burnt out on the way I'm burnt out on 10 or verses or whatever. Right. That's interesting because that's a harrowing. I'd say no Afghan wigs. I really am beating myself up about the superfose big mof thing.
01:50:04 I think that was correct. I think that's just sick record. It's like the Jack and Dino sound is... Also more canonically grunge, I think. Yes. But we also didn't pick spells like teen spirits. So what are we talking about? What are we talking about?
01:50:17 Also, Afghan wings, I just want to say a little distinction. Whereas like grunge is male fragility. Afghan wigs is not male fragility. It's something else. Do you agree? We talked about this on the band's play about them. I think you're much more in touch with like, I can't see it. It's too close to my, like, too close to me. I think he's very vulnerable.
01:50:37 I think, but in a way like, yeah, like a more like, I'll beat your ass way than like maybe. Like a Tennessee Williams way. Yes, exactly. That's totally. Totally. No, are you laughing at Tennessee Williams? No, no, I love Tennessee Williams.
01:50:53 I think that applies. You love Tennessee Williams. I'm fond of his work. Can you name three Tennessee Williams songs? Songs. Named three Tennessee Williams monologues. I don't think that he's like Tennessee Williams. Kirk Gully.
01:51:07 No, yeah, I think here's the difference. It's like the difference between a drug user and an alcoholic. That's what you're getting at, right, C.R. I think so. Yeah. I'm trying to think of what my regret is. I mean, going nirvana. A Pearl Jam at the outset was very normy, but I tried to have like slightly more interesting selections in those categories.
01:51:27 But then that led me down a path of like not having much flexibility. Yeah. Especially because no one chose anything else in Nirvana. So I might have done things a little differently if I had known that. It's crazy. I had a feeling there would be like a I don't want to be the first person to pick Nirvana thing. Yeah, me too. I think I just like the only one I would, I actually with my whole chest wanted to pick Nirvana would have been.
01:51:50 album like I said in so well that's not true live through this is actually a bigger album for me than incest to say so maybe it's just music video I didn't think about it which is dumb because of the draft recency draft bias otherwise riff I'm proud of my riff like I think that's a sick riff I think some of the Nirvana riffs are incredible they have more good riffs than most lithium would have been maybe more desired because similarly to smells like teen spirit video like it representative of it obviously like it's like it's like it's own radio station you know what I mean like inspired a kind of in that the well probably that's legal reasons
01:52:24 because they can't you can't trademark the word lithium but it's a good point yeah but also like I think that song represents something negative pream aneurism dive yeah no there's a ton there's a million yeah do you just sent less apprentice the riff was written by Dave Grohl I just learned that that makes sense that is one of my absolute favorite songs of all time but that's the
01:52:40 other thing too is like I don't it's like one of the least interesting opinions you can have if you were born in 1982 but like I still wholeheartedly love Nirvana and appreciate what they did and listen to their records all the time I still think the Nirvana Sons is upon us. I keep saying it and it doesn't happen, so maybe it's just slowly brewing, but I think... I think they're pretty singular.
01:52:58 It's hard to have a Nirvana. I mean, you can be like, people could get back into Nirvana. That's what I mean. But, like, it's hard to rip Nirvana off at this. It's hard to imagine a bit. We may have even talked about this on pods before. I don't know. I think every band now ripped up.
01:53:09 Could any musical act that was that severe ever be the biggest band in the world or the biggest act in the world ever again? That is the thing that I always find fascinating about them. you need to roll sold like 8 million copies it's like it's hardly even pop at times you know what I'm saying like sentless apprentice like that's like turn it off music I love it all
01:53:30 apologies really got the hit there's a couple songs obviously that drew people in but I mean not to be like this guy but it's like can any artist you know be successful be that big like Drake and Taylor Swift and we have like huge artists I think only because they started prior to a certain date
01:53:50 I guess, like, maybe the most recent example, I think it could only be pop now. I like to hear what you guys say. I almost don't even think rappers can do it anymore. Like, I think it can only be female pop stars. And I think the latest example is Olivia Rodrigo, who got to a huge level of fame. And now, like, I'm not super tapped in with, like, pop music, but kind of, like, there's other artists that, like, have moments that are really big. Like, Sabrina Carpenter and Chapplerone are doing this. But, like, Olivia Rodriguez is, like, it's the same amount to get into those.
01:54:20 shows as it would she's played like nine nights at sofye or whatever i was gonna say she can sell at stadium nine nights at so bye you know i don't know i mean she's only had two albums like but i'm not i just don't i can't see another artist period that's not it sounds like teen girls are now like the biggest most important audience i think rob is probably best suited to joust with the idea i will say you guys were just talking about zach bryan and that feels like someone who went from like here to here really quick that's true and is very very famous in a country i i am i am But who's more famous? Olivia Rodriguez or Zach Ryan?
01:54:54 Olivia Ardogo is more famous. And Zach Ryan's been out of longer. Yeah. I don't know. Rob, is there a single person since 2018 that is like a full-blown mega superstar? Yeah. All the way back when you picked in utero,
01:55:06 I was like in utero was the harshest record everyone owned. Yeah. Right? You know, and I don't think there's any remote equivalent. Like I was trying to think, you know, like the Vine's record in the early 2000s had a very harsh we want to be
01:55:21 Nirvana kind of sound that was a lot more shameless you know but like I you know I I don't want to be the 40 something talking about sound cloud rap or whatever but like the people I hear trying to even appropriate a Nirvana aesthetic now it's like
01:55:39 you know Billy Elish kind of maybe you know 10% of the time you know but Olivia Rodriguez is always who I go to who is the most 90s feeling current pop star absolutely yeah the dream of the breeders and burq assault is alive in the pop music of oliverardriego so at least we have that exactly well should we recap our selections yeah okay i had singer-front person i had Courtney love album i had verses radio hit i had screaming trees
01:56:09 nearly lost you versus by pearl jam screaming trees nearly lost you for radio hit fell on black days sound garden for music video and start chopping by dinosaur junior for riff Yassie, would you have you one second? Okay, radio hit I chose Feel the Pain by Dennisor Jr. Front person Chris Cornell, music video famously erroneously 1979 by the Smashing Pumpkins. Still a great video. Album, live through this by whole, riff, shove by L7. Rob?
01:56:42 Let's see. Singer, I had Lane Staley. Album was purple by Stone Temple Pilots. Radio hit was Tomorrow by Silver Chair. Music video is Hunger Strike Temple of the Dog. Riff was Candlebox far behind. I am at peace, I think. Your draft is a little weirder than I remember in real time.
01:57:03 Everyone went a little insane. This is pure grunge. It's close. I think mine is close to Pure Crunch. One exception. Singer is Scott Weiland. That's the exception. Album is in utero.
01:57:16 Radio hit is I Stay Away. by Allison Chains. Music video is cannonball by the breeders. A little bit of a left turn. Riff is alive by Pearl Jam. So you only left the big four ones. Oh, I guess it's got in Scotland. Yeah, I don't have anything represented by Soundgarden.
01:57:33 Even though I like Soundgarden a lot. And you were the only person who drafted in Nirvana. It's kind of wild. It is really strange. It would have been impossible for me to resist picking something from Nirvana. Smells like Sun Spirit did not get drafted as radio hit music video or riff. I think RIF was too obvious. For me, I was like, if I'm going to pick a Nirvana or Rift, there's also.
01:57:48 Other good ones. I think Rob had the most pure grunge draft, I think. Because it was also like the commodification of crunch. Yeah. Candleboxes and stund him. I was in the sellout mindset. Absolutely, yes. I think I, um, as I always am.
01:58:05 Short-circuited because I'm broken down and beat down from 20 weeks of studying the lives and music of some of the most tragic figures in pop culture history. Understandable. This season in particular is a lot of pain. What are you going to do next? Like, do Wop? Just like, he was just a guy.
01:58:25 You got to do SCHA. It's got to be SCHA. It's got a pretty, like, dark stories too. Yeah, probably. Yeah. You should do Bop Jazz. Not paid at all. Just get into Charlie Parker.
01:58:35 I'm going to start a movie podcast. Coltrane. Jazz. Really? Yeah, just about the eight movies that I've seen. It's going to be called the Yossi Pick, and we're going to talk about. The Yossi pick? Yeah.
01:58:45 I'm just trying it. Is that bad? Should I do something else? Do you? Why don't you start? Yeah, see you at the movies. Why don't you do a rookie rewatch pod called See You at the Rookie? See you at the Rookie?
01:58:56 See the Rookie. It's pretty bad. Everybody wants what See You at the movies has. Have you noticed that? A tagline? Well, it's just it's the tagline for all taglines. Does the watch have a tagline? No.
01:59:06 Does 60 songs have a tagline? Not that I'm aware of. Doot doot. That's that is the tagline. That's part of my signature. That's part of my book signature now. so I guess that does count. Okay, well, you guys, it's been a real pleasure.
01:59:22 Has it? It felt hard today. I enjoyed your company, but just the cerebral activity of this one felt difficult. This is the last episode of the season? This is, yes. Have you teased what you're doing next? No. Should I?
01:59:39 It's wise. I think it's cool to drop a hint. Yeah. What's a cryptic way of saying it? I don't know. I know you didn't plan for this. Where should people be looking, you know? Across the pond.
01:59:48 Nice. Well done. Well done. Thanks, guys. Come back in several months for a new episode of Bandsplain. If you liked what you heard today, subscribe for more episodes of Bandsplain. Our guests today were Rob Harvilla, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey. You can find them on Twitter at Harvilla, at Chris Ryan 77, and at Sean Fennacy.
02:00:18 This episode was produced by Jesse Miller Gordon, Corey McConnell, and edited by Adrian Bridges with help from Justin Sales. Executive producers for bands planner Gina Delvec and meet Yossi Salick. Our gorgeous and catchy theme song was composed and performed by Bethany Costantino and Jennifer Clavin and graciously recorded by Carlos Delgado
02:00:37 in Los Angeles, California. Special thanks to our producer emeritus, producer Dylan, aka Dylan Tupper Rupert and also Casey Simonson, Robert Adler, Leah Edwards, David McDenna, Dana Meyerson, Jessica Hopper, Samuel Hunt, and My Ninja Creamy
02:00:53 I got at Costco. Come back next season for a new episode of Bansplain on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Okay, see you at the movies.
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