Blank Check with Griffin & David - Loser with Chandler Levack

Episode Date: June 15, 2025

The song. The hat. The…casual date rape?!!? In what should have been Amy Heckerling’s “blank check” after the success of Clueless, 2000’s Loser is a real LOSER. Filmmaker Chandler Levack joins us to chat about this technically-not-a-remake-of-The-Apartment “comedy” that gets college surprisingly wrong. Come for the Wheatus talk, stay for the in-depth power ranking of every American Pie cast member’s post-Pie career. Sign up for Check Book, the Blank Check newsletter featuring even more “real nerdy shit” to feed your  pop culture obsession. Dossier excerpts, film biz AND burger reports, and even more exclusive content you won’t want to miss out on. Join our Patreon for franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us @blankcheckpod on Twitter, Instagram, Threads and Facebook!  Buy some real nerdy merch Connect with other Blankies on our Reddit or Discord For anything else, check out BlankCheckPod.com  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I got two tickets to Griffin and David baby come with me Friday don't say maybe Gone I'm just it. I'm just a teenage Potash baby like you I got in over my head But the lead singer of Wheatus to me? No, do you think there's anything I could have done to get people to turn off this episode faster? I was sort of stuck halfway between doing his voice, and I feel like that's the one where they have

the female vocalist come in for that one part. Oh yeah. Right? Come with me Friday. I got to take a step. You're definitely, I'm off on both. I was about to say like,

and I'm not here to like defend Weedus' honor, but I do think you're doing them. It's not that bad. No, I'm making it terrible. Hey, look, I enjoy that song quite a bit. I had put it to bed. You had? You know, it was in the ground.

And let's say you're very good at putting things to bed. You gotta put three kids to bed a night now. I just did it to bed. You had? You know, it was in the ground. And let's say, you're very good at putting things to bed. You gotta put three kids to bed a night now. I just did it. Yeah. And I hear it, right, over the credits of this film. Yeah. And of course, I'm like, and then I'm immediately saying to Forky,

I'm watching this movie with my wife. Your wife Forky. My poor wife. Your poor, utensil wife. We wanted to finish Andor, but no, no, no forky loser has to take precedence. And I'm like, right. You remember this song? This was, this song is from this movie. No one remembers that it's from this movie. This song was like 10 times more popular than this movie, but the video does have clips from

this movie. And not only that it has new footage. It has both. It has clips from the Amy Heckerling film Loser, and it has Jason Biggs and Mina Savari acting out the plot of the song Teenage Dirtbag, which is quite different from the plot of Loser. It has a double dose of Biggs and Savari. And yeah, right. And then I was just sort of like, so what's the deal with Weedus? Because were they new?

This was like, it's not like Weedus had been around. This was their debut outbound. Yeah. Is it the movie that broke the band? Yes. Or is it the band that broke the movie? Well, the movie didn't break, so... The movie broke nothing.

So that's my whole question. It's like, how did this actually sort of surpass the movie? Well, just let me say this. Okay. The reason I mangled that song is because to your point, I'm looking at this movie, I'm looking at the quotes page in IMDB. I'm like, huh, all of these quotes are very hostile. These are not fun things to recite. It's because they're all about Rohypnol? They're about many very different...

This is kind of like a rancid movie. Like not in even like a quality way. Ben and I just watched this together and like 30 minutes in I turned to him and I went, is she trying to do salons? Kind of. Kind of. Oh, that's interesting. Right?

I mean, like supposedly she's trying to do the apartment right which I totally see like which like The sort of basic hook is by way of happiness But it's with this 90s. I mean my whole thing is like at a certain point It kind of has a bad Woody Allen movie quality Bad as anything else the Woody Allen movie that Jason Biggs is in. Right. Oh, I'm very, I have not seen that movie since it came out. We'll talk about Biggs, but no, no, just, around half hour in, I think, for me too.

Me and my wife are yelling at each other, and not in a way where we're angry at each other. We are both so thrown by the tone of this movie and the plot of this movie. But she's also Googling divorce on grounds of making me watch Loser. My husband is a loser. We're just like, I don't understand. We're just both like kind of like having a bit of a panicky,

like why is it like this? And then we see that quote that's on the Wikipedia page from 20 years later where Heckerling is like, well, I want it to be an R-rated movie. And that sort of settled us down. Truly We were like okay, okay, maybe that helps There's something off here sense of this right? Hecker Lee has said since that it was written design shot Greenlit as an R rated movie and then at some point the studio panicked and insisted it had to be PG-13

And she said that is the one mistake of that movie. That is not the only mistake. But certainly if you're like, oh, this is an R-rated movie that they dialed down just enough to get a rating on it. But she said... But didn't lose the tone. I agree with this in the abstract. She said audience can tell when a movie

is not what it's trying to be. And that there was just like a rejection of something's broken in this. audience can tell when a movie is not what it's trying to be and that there was just like a rejection of Something's broken in this and yet I think Even in an R rated cut I would still probably have all the same larger questions notes I have a lot of questions on story and characterization But okay quotes. I'm like nothing here. What's the tagline for this movie? Okay, we're back there to be different loser I'm like, this movie isn't remembered.

The only thing it's remembered for is launching Teenage Dirtbag. So I might as well quote the song from the soundtrack poorly over anything that's actually in the text of the movie itself. That Teenage Dirtbag did like 10 times better than this movie. Teenage Dirtbag is absolutely just a one hit wonder and they dissolved after a year. I mean, there are things to discuss in the culture around this movie and that is one of them on this podcast called blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a podcast about filmography's directors who have massive success early on their careers Okay, you start out your fucking career with fast times at Richmond High Sure, and are given a series of blank checks, make whatever crazy passion products they want.

Sometimes those checks clear, like Clueless, and sometimes they bounce like her direct follow-up to Clueless Loser. Tough, tough. Our guest today, we were talking about this last night and was flummoxed when I told her that this is the direct follow-up. Right, that there's nothing in between

except the Clueless TV shows. I thought we must have had some kind of cultural amnesia. Right. We'll dig into- I nothing in between except the Clueless TV show. I thought I must have had some kind of cultural amnesia. Right. I mean, there's the Clueless TV show. There's the Clueless TV show. But I will say, and we're recording a little bit out of order, so this is the last Heckerling we're recording, but there are obviously two more that will come out after this. Two very normal movies.

Two of the most normal movies we've ever covered on this show. And a fact that I got wrong, Oh. That JJ is now corrected in the loser dossier, is that she basically stepped back during the first season of Clueless. And by the time it jumps over UPN, she's basically out.

I believe I said that. So that makes even less sense. But we're going to talk about it. Who's our cast? This is a mini-series on the films of Amy Hackerlin. Whatever. It's called Pod Times at Richmond Cast. It's not called Cast Times at Richmond Pod because that would break the cardinal rule of the show.

Which is that pod has to go before cast. Is that a cardinal rule? In my mind, yeah. I don't think it's ever come up before. Run it by the cardinal. They just had their conclave. Give them a break. Okay, so then get them all back together. That's Lou Malnati guy Fucking pizza po the deep the deep dish po the beef sandwich po it's so funny that everyone's like Hey a Chicago Pope and it's like this serene man who lived in Peru for decades. He's like hello. How are you? And everyone's like oh white socks, baby

Announced that everyone's like God the fact that we didn't get a smigel sketch about this in 96 right that Chris Farley couldn't have played Chicago Pope in a like a paramount picture like a dub. Oh, right exactly Itself and then you see the real guy and you're like, this is the calmest American I have seen in decades. He has no over the top characteristics. I'm like, this guy seems balanced as hell. Like he did like 10 years. Like he would, they exercise the Chicago from him or whatever.

Today we were talking about loser. Not even her girlings last film, but her last studio picture. I guess that's right Yeah, well, it's the 25th anniversary of loser. Everyone can't stop talking about it And today joining us for the first time on the show. We have broken the cardinal rule I'm just I had to check this okay. I said the pot he can fuck I Was might be it. Cause listeners have been like, why the fuck wouldn't he do cast times when AST is right there in the title? Fair question.

And I was like, the rule must be upheld. But now I'm realizing it was all for naught. We've only... Cast a Podheekin. I think we've only done it once. That was an AST. I had to... Fuck! Yeah, what can I tell you? Decade of nightmares. Who's our guest, please? AST I had to look yeah Who's our guest please our guest today is the great Chandler Levic director of I like movies say your name louder

I didn't I didn't get the last name incorrect. Did I? It's okay you brought the biggest loser of them all. Not true. Chandler Lavac. Thank you. Yes. Hard ac. Ac. Like the Cathy.

Ac ac ac. Like Cathy. The Mars Attacks. Yes. Director of I Like Movies. One of my favorite films the last couple of years which I've called. I've shout out a lot. Oh thanks Griff.

Yeah. Thank you for the supporting actress nomination at the Blankees. Deserved. Incredible performance. Another name I believe I mispronounced in that episode. Romina Dugo? Dugo. Fuck. You're doing great.

I'm not. I'm a mess. I'm a mess. Nothing throws you more than Canadian names, apparently. Yeah. I don't know if Romina's Canadian. She is. There you go.

Yeah. Dan, I'm checking my notes here. Akeroydi? He is in this movie. I don't know if you noticed. Oh yeah, he's a very doting dad. Midwestern father. He kind of brings the thunder for a couple scenes. I'm gonna say it. He's pretty good. We're gonna talk about it. Jimmy Simpson though. That's my guy.

Well, there's guys. And I am going to. And Zach Orth, who I love. I love Zach Orth. There's a lot to talk about. Tom Sadowski. That's the one where I had a brain aneurysm. I was sent to the hospital for 50 weeks, and then I came out of it, and I was like, you're sure that's Thomas Sadowski?

I was like, this guy, I was certain Tom Sadowski was born at the age of 37, straight into the second stage rep company. Again, my wife had to witness it when I was you know Oh, Jimmy Simpson, and then I guess I wasn't paying attention during the credits and then I see Sadoski I'm like who is that yeah, like she's gonna know and I'm like Who who is that yes, and then when I find out it's him I was like he looks like this now I was like okay, and I was like you don't understand

This is so far from what this guy's settled on right one of the great normal guy Quote unquote character. You know what I love us. It. Ask Ian what it's not He blocked me on Twitter by the way what I have no idea You were gonna review loser The podcast he's like don't get the heck early within a decade. I just remember they'd like me to I love him in John Wick He never goes back. Yeah, he up that once a week being like, hey John, how you doing? Yeah.

Chandler, Ben, are you familiar with who? Tom Sadowski, do you know who we're talking about? No, he's one of the three bad guys. He's the sort of gothie one with the painted nails. The hunky one. Possibly the most evil of the three? I think so. Yes.

He's the most aggressively evil. Yes, he's the most evil. And then Zach Orth. He's the most aggressively evil. Yes. He's the most evil. Sort of the least. And then Zach Orth, who's the kind of bigger one, is kind of, he's evil. And then Jimmy Simpson's sort of stupid. And he's become this great character actor who kind of plays like slightly offbeat normal guy types.

Wow. And is the ultimate, just kind of looks like a dude. He was on the newsroom. He does a ton of theater. He was, wasn't he in Always Sunny as a recurring part? No, that's Jimmy Simpson. Who's one of the McPoyle twins. This is the guy with the darker hair and he's like really a pretty boy.

And he's got the painted nails and the sort of stud bracelet and whatever. He's the one who's fully nude, I think, in one scene. We were trying to parse what, like, if his dick was out or something. I think, again, this is an R-rated thing. That's what Amy Heckerling wants. She gets to get her Fast Times Retribution. My, my, my, under, what I could sort of gauge is maybe... His shirt is open and his nips are out.

I think he's wearing essentially like a sort of G-string maybe or something, you know what I mean? Like... I think he's wearing a sort of G-string maybe. The thing with Sadowski... It was syllable for syllable perfect. It was great He worded it in the way looks like to the song perfectly. It looks like this. I just couldn't sing it looks normal He's the guy in the newsroom though who tells the pilot

The place he is he is such an evil pretty boy in this that's very incongruous of who he turned out to be But also he is married to Amanda Seyfried What? Yes Wow They have two children together and live in upstate New York. She plays her fucking harpsichord Go off she does Yeah

She plays the harpsichord? She plays funky instruments Oh yeah, I saw her Joni Mitchell Yes Beautiful She plays the dulcimer There we go. That's a nice line.

Here Amanda Seyfried play enchanting Joni Mitchell song on the dulcimer. But like, what, on the Tonight Show? On the fucking Tonight Show? On the Tonight Show. So like, Fallon's just like, ha, this is great. While she's like, working the dulcimer? Chandler, you are a writer-director.

Yes. You are a Torontonian. I'm sorry. This is a late night episode, so I'm a little jacked up. We should say this. So you are, we can't say what it is, but you are in the Tri-State area, prepping a new movie and because of the absolute opposite schedules of someone who is prepping a motion picture and a podcaster who has three children, the only time we could make this work was 8 p.m. on Memorial Day.

That's right. This is our first evening record since, like, deepest, darkest lockdown. Since pandemic, I think. Wow. There was a window where David Forkey was pregnant. Yeah. And there was construction in my building

that would run every day. That was the reason why we had to do it at night. From, like, eight until three. And then by the time the construction stopped, your wife was off from work Yeah, zoom it zoom work, and you were like I have to take care of her until she falls asleep I can't start recording until she's asleep nine o'clock We were like four months of episodes that would start at me. We didn't have a lot else going on

No, no, I would actually say it was quite a bad period of time But it does feel like the energy this is an energy we haven't tapped into in a while not drinking I would actually say it was quite a bad period of time. What? Are you sure? But it does feel like the energy, this is an energy we haven't tapped into in a while. I'm not drinking anything but lemonade. Soda pop. Oh, lemonade. But I am a little jacked up. You are, you are a filmmaker, you're a Torontonian, you're here prepping a movie.

The best city in the world. Experienced both filming in Toronto and now getting ready to film in the Tri-State area. You told me last night that The Apartment is basically your favorite movie of all time. It is, yeah. And I love Amy Hegerling, like deeply. I heard you had gotten this job and you were going to be in town, and I reached out and it just felt like Loser was a good fit. And you were like, isn't that one of the big Toronto pretending to be New York movies?

I think I can weigh in on this very special. He's on the metro there. I can tell you every single location and what it actually is. But like when he, it's so jarring because there is some New York location stuff. There is, yeah. And then he'll be on a subway platform

or there'll be an insert shot of a subway of a New York and then they'll cut to the Toronto metro. Yeah, it's 100% the Toronto. Well, it's Union Station masquerading as Grand Central Station. Yes, right. And then I think... Is one... No, but there's one scene that's in Grand Central, when she falls asleep, that's Grand

Central. In the sort of information area. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think they're using it like a sliver of Union Station as like an NYU classroom or a library or something. For the library, when there's like big chairs. Yeah, with like the big bus of heads andade. Oh, with David Spade? Yeah, it's an old movie video store that a lot of my friends worked at. Okay, so here's a question. Did David Spade work there? Would he like pop out and be like, oh, I'm going to be a movie star? Yeah, I think he was.

I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was.

I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was.

I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. I think he was. It's an old movie theater on the... Oh, with David Spade? Yeah, it's an old movie video store that a lot of my friends worked at. Okay, so here's a question. Did David Spade work there? Would you like pop out and be like, hey buddy? And they'd be like, aren't you on Just Shoot Me Now? I'm like, I'm not going on. I can't do Spade.

Yeah. And they walk past Lee's Palace, which is a famous rock venue. Of course. Shooting on the Danforth. But they say it's Webster Hall. Like that's the weird thing is they're picking very specific Canadian places, Toronto locations, and then just like doing 5% of effort to be like,

no, it's actually this different, very specific New York. I'm gonna give them credit. I think they do 10% of effort. Okay. I was, apart from the subway, which you kind of can't fake. It is just like- If you're using a different subway, it's gonna look wrong.

I know you're obviously a big, you have such a bullshit detector which you kind of can't fake. If you're using a different subway, it's gonna look wrong. You're obviously a big... You have such a bullshit detector for this kind of thing. But when you're watching him on a subway car, and you're like, there has never been an MTA car that looks like this. I recognize the Toronto Mets. Of course. But then they bother to put up the New York MTA map behind him. There's always that sort of like, my brain is short-circuiting of like, you're putting one real'm in a dream.

One real detail on the fake thing. For sure. That video, sir, you said it's called? It's called Review Cinema. Is it gone? It's sadly gone, yeah. But a lot of great Canadian filmmakers work there, like Kazik Redwansky. Oh, cool.

And my friend Simon Ennis. Yeah. Yeah. Did they do the organized by director thing? They did. I think I heard they had to actually reorganize the cinema for Loser to make it more mainstream. Wild. And because it was too art house and they didn't.

But he does try to run the piano. Yes. He's between two blank check movies, The Piano and When Harry Met Sally. That's true. And when David Spade is recommending Simon Birch to him, which Ben noticed is blurred out. They blurred out, yeah. And I can't tell if they blurred it out in post

or they blurred out the prop. I couldn't tell either, but no, I think it's an actual Simon Birch case. It just looks fuzzy. But no, then I think probably someone's like, hey, we didn't clear that. Because there's another thing in this movie. Is this a Columbia picture?

Yeah. Sure. The coda, can't believe you bought a deep blu-ray for this thing. This is the hardest I have ever worked to track down a physical copy of a movie ever on this show. Oh my gosh. It's an Australian only release. It doesn't have special features.

It doesn't have subtitles. The menu has one button, which is just play. It doesn't even special features. It doesn't have subtitles. The menu has one button, which is just play. It doesn't even have scene selection. And it was like, I had to set up like so many fucking search alert, Google alert, eBay alerts, because these things never fucking go on sale. But I got it. Wow.

He got it. Oh, what was I going to... Oh, the, you know, the, not to cut to the coda of this film, but there's a little post ending, you know, infos on like what happened to everybody, right? There's two typos. Yes. And I was just like, did nobody,

or was the vibe just kind of like, whatever, man, just get the fucking movie out. The coda on this has big Mission Impossible final reckoning energy where you're like, was this typed five minutes before I started watching the movie? Anyway, Loser. Loser.

I can't believe I didn't see this film in theaters though. Kind of sad. Because like, I loved Amy Heckerling, I loved Clueless, and I went to see anything back in 2000. I remember being really excited for it. I was excited too, and then it got such horrible reviews. I think I was hooked into the Weedus marketing. I think Weedus actually...

Weedus got you! It really did. It got me through the door. Well, asking why did the Weedus song pop when this movie didn't, right? I do think it is that thing of having the double force of energy of a record label that's trying to launch the Weedus album and Columbia Pictures also putting their muscle behind it to try to use the song to promote the movie. It felt like there were two forces pushing what is admittedly a very catchy song out there.

It has dirtbag in the title. Totally. It was guaranteed to be a hit. You get a good catch melody. You fucking throw the word dirtbag in there. But it's such a weird song. It starts going on about Iron Maiden. And her boyfriend brings a gun to school. It's him. It's him relating some story from his past. But then, right. And then they just go, but I'm just saying that was like, yeah, that's the part we like. But if you sing that in a karaoke bar today, everyone will pop off. It's just, it's like lighting in the bottle.

I mean, not, are they, I always bring this up, like, Semisonic is the example I always think of, are they a band that has to open and close with Teenage Turbans? Yeah. I think so. It's my favorite thing to think about. Absolutely.

People, they come out and people are like, fucking do it right now. They're like, okay, okay, okay. And at the end they're like, you fucking do it right now. Okay, okay You better do it again. I'm not walking out of here without it again. It feels like the song I saw Hanson recently Do you do them about twice? They did do it? Right and Hanson has at least a few others Seven Bill Withers covers like I was alright that rock see a handsome do bill withers Song Hanson rocks good for you kind of like he had redone their whole vibe

Right, but they also know they can't do a show without Depressing and one of the the brother he drummed and ate a sandwich That that does rule what type Misremembering? No, there isn't a Hanson song in this. This time around, the later Hanson song, I heard in something the other day, where it almost, like, knocked my socks off.

This, uh, um, soundtrack includes Pretty Five for a White Guy by The Offscreen, Blue by iFull65, What's My Age Again by Blink182. Bad Touch by the Bloodhound Gang. Two Bloodhound Gang songs. Wow. Aurora by the Foo Fighters. Of course, a performance from Everclear for us.

Oh, Everclear. Out of My Head, Fastball, another one hit wonder. Yes, and I don't remember this, but apparently the British boy band Five have a song, Don't Fight It Baby. That's when he has the graduation party. OK, OK. Because I was like, what is this, like, fake in sync song?

Also like an SAT question. Five were fake in sync to a T. Finish the pattern, of course. Two further songs on the soundtrack, Scarborough Fair by Simon Garfunkel, and Sonata in C Major by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. I don't think those two made the CD. Not the CD.

We have to talk about the long graduate homage that happens. There's a long graduate homage. You see a bit of cabaret performed. You see literally, like right, it's an artifact. You're watching cabaret as the original. I turned to Ben. I'm like, I'm kind of glad they captured this. It's wonderful.

That's one of the best scenes in the movie. It is, I think, without a doubt, the best scene in the movie. There's not even anything that comes close. Here's my favorite part of that scene. When the camera pans away from Jason Biggs and Mina Savare and then just watches Alan Cumming tear up Cabaret for 40 seconds. And then you're just like, fuck.

Fuck, this rules. I didn't watch this. Like, I wish this was it. The whole, the other thing, also the thing with this movie is, again, I'm watching it with my wife, Mina Suvari pops up and I'm like, this is Mina Suvari. You know Mina Suvari? And she's like, no, I mean, no. And I'm like, right.

I guess it was basically like a two year window. Like, Mina Suvari's fame was brief. It's so quick. She's in three movies, American Pie, American Beauty, American Virgin. They all come out within 18 months of each other. Correct. I mean, American Virgin, of course, had Robert Lohse and Bob Hoskins. Two guys you definitely want in a movie called American Virgin. I was digging in and she has like three further American titles later in her career.

Well she's got American Pie too. Let's not forget that. And American Reunion. Is she in that one? Yep. She's not in Wedding, she's back for Reunion. Everyone's back for Reunion. I forgot what Reunion was.

I thought Reunion was Wedding. I forgot that they did a four. No no no. Like 60% of the cast is cut from Wedding. Everyone's brought back for Reunion at a bargain price. Yeah. Yeah. What was she gonna be?

Like when Mina Savary... It's a great question. What? Exactly the question. I was thinking this while watching it because there was certainly a two-year period where we were all the right age to be like, I guess she's important? And you step back now and you're like, what was the roadmap people thought was gonna play out ahead of her?

I don't. For her career? Like who's, like best case scenario. There's not really a comp. No. And it's also- Not for as a star. No, and I also think like, if you go- Like Sibyl Shepard maybe? That's incredibly generous of you.

I know. I'm sorry. Well I'm just thinking about like- Sibyl Shepard, maybe that's incredibly That is true, but I'm thinking about like the last picture show and kind of being this like breakout Yeah, and like a coming-of-age Much odder version of that in American Beauty when she's not the conventional. Yeah, when you watch American Beauty, it's not like she's bad in American Beauty. She's totally appropriate for the role, like she gets it, but she's like, she's not as good as Thor Birch or Wes Bentley anyway. No.

They're giving better performances. I mean, whenever you think about that movie. It's probably the least compelling performance in the movie. Yeah, it is. Also, the movie rates her character very unintelligently. It is a very ungenerous characterization. Yeah, but she plays the big scene in that movie really well,

which is her, like, you know, dropping the... When the petals arrive on her boobs. Yeah, when the petals arrive on her... I guess, you know what, Griffin the Boat? That's what it was, though. It wasn't... It was American Beauty. She was the image of American Beauty. She's the tummy. I know it's what it was though. It wasn't, it was American Beauty. She was the image of American Beauty. She's the tummy.

I know it's not actually her tummy. But you know, but again, she's the Rose, garnet woman, whatever. But American Pie. What a time in America. American Pie comes out that same year. Yes, but that's the worst part of that movie. I disagree with that.

Yeah, you defend the Chris, what the fuck is his name is Klein Klein Mina Suvari part of American Pie, which is that's very sweet. I Like it. Thank you. Yeah, I like when they sing all those show choir songs The worst part of the movie is inarguably Tara Reid and Thomas Ian completely disagree that part of the movie rocks because... They're so boring. Well, they're not very good. They're so boring.

No offense to the misperformers, but I agree that they're not top notch. But I just love that their storyline resolves what they have sex and it's bad. It's so good. It's one of my favorite parts of the movie. They just are on top of each other awkwardly and they're like, yeah, that was okay.

Everyone else obviously has like insane, you know, shit happened to them. Of course, me and Savari and Chris Klein don't have sex, which is what makes them a little different. Yeah. Just fucking have sex. David's doing a drug off motion. Right, it's like, you know, oh, what's his pants?

Bangs Stifler's mom and Jason Biggs fucks a pie. And you know, those two, it's just like, oh yeah, it's sex. It sucked. We're 18 years old. We don't know what we're doing. David, don't be this offhand and dismissive about two most important things that ever happened in American cinema. What was that?

Oh, the pie and Stifler's mom. Fucking Stifler's mom and Jason Biggs' fucking dessert pastry. It is weird to think about this movie getting financed off those two actors and actors. 100%, then it's like, okay, fucking American pie, got some American pies in it great Cool. You want some money? So we were talking about this a little bit. We make Union Station look like NYU Chandler and I hung out last night. We were talking about this. What's the weight budget one dollar one?

dollar the sovari conversations interesting right and the bigs conversations interesting but you zoom out and it's like it's hard to actually Think of an analog of what happened after American pie where that movie was such a big hit and it had such an ensemble cast Yes, bigs kind of an ensemble of young cute American actors in this kind of American graffiti sort of way. Yeah, right and the end Hollywood was just like math would Would tell us that at least two of these people are gonna end up being major lasting movie stars, right? And no one could figure out who it was

and none of them worked long-term. Yeah, we decided that Natasha Lyonne is the only one. She is the obvious survivor. 26 years later, there is no question that Natasha Lyonne is in present moment the most successful American Pie alum. And number two is- Aside from Jennifer Coolidge.

Let's leave Coolidge aside. Okay. And of course, let's not talk about the Shermanator. But I was gonna say- No, Coolidge doesn't- What we said last night was that the top three- Oh, Alastin Hannigan. Hannigan is two.

I think number two is true. No, Hannigan is two. We're talking about who's on the- On the poster? Iconic poster of American pie. Okay, so number two is Hannigan, but let's say- We're not talking about bit parts. Hannigan is kind of semi-retired.

Nonetheless, Annalise Hannigan is in two gigantic TV shows. Queen of fucking residuals. She also hosted like eight seasons of Penn and Teller's CW show, where she'd show up like two days a year and probably get millions of dollars. Ben is making the appropriate- who cares? Penn and Tell a full us! That's like a.1 WAR 100 days of syndication. I'm just saying she has three syndication series.

Leon? Yes. Hannigan? Yes. Number three is Sean William Scott, right? No question. But also a guy who slowed way down. But what about just flutes? Flutes? They're back.

In. Pies. Okay, and pies too. In fact, I know, let's keep this going. Bums. I'm doing the whole poster. Yeah. And pies. Okay, and pies too. Let's keep this going. I'm doing the whole poster. Do the whole poster. I do think it's like, Leon, Hanigan, Sean Williams Scott is number three for sure. He's had a career. He's been above the title and things.

I'm just saying that Leon's the best right now, and Hanigan and Williams had the best careers after the movie. Hey, should I rank everyone like Natasha Lyonne? Lyonne had a bad period in between. I had a bad period in between. And now she's doing great. Did I get that Oscar nomination for history, Todd? I'm starting the AI firm. I'm just trying to explore storytelling opportunities in AI.

I think four is Biggs. That's sadly true. Biggs is four. I think you're right. I think Biggs is four. Which feels wrong, but I think you're right. He's a gentleman's four. He's around. He's a gentleman's four. I think Biggs is four. Which feels wrong, but I think you're right. He's a gentleman's four. He's around. He's a gentleman's four.

I think... Now it's tough. It gets tough. Now I'm between Klein and Suvari. I think Klein because he had the election bump. I gotta go for Suvari. She's in a Best Picture winner. That's fair.

And she's in Loser, a film we're discussing today. We're not discussing the Chris Klein-o Chris Klein over right right which we have done We'll do again Has got a ton of credit she does she keeps working But yet I was looking at her Wikipedia and I was so ready to discover she played Jane Wyman in the Reagan movie last year. Yes. Wow. She's working. She did some TV show in the last couple of years that also had American in the title.

Yeah, you're really hooked on the American thing. American women or American women or whatever they're probably called. She is a perfect example of I'm pulling up her Wikipedia and I'm like, I'm about to find out that Mina Savary has quietly been on FBI Sure, like a cop show. ...FBI Seattle. Oh, yeah.

For nine seasons. Right? And she has... FBI Spokane. She has worked consistently, but there is no thing like that. No, but she has worked a lot. She's worked consistently. Do you think she works in this movie? You think she's miscast?

Would it be better with Alison Hannigan? I kind of like her in this. I think she works... Natasha movie? Do you think she's miscast? Would it be better with Alison Hannigan? I kind of like her in this. I think she works. Natasha Lyonne would be a much better... Hey, I'd make a lot of sense. I would watch that movie. Yes, it kind of feels like it was built for Lyonne.

I've kind of been, you know, hey, but I was kind of having a tough time then. David! Yes? We did a live show. No. On stage. You're right. I swear to you it's show. No. On stage. You're right. I swear to you it's true.

Wow. We celebrated King Ralph. We made an audience with his majesty. Two fans. Two people who were like, oh, it was okay. For the show. But it was fun. It was fun, it was a good show.

Let's be clear. You were doing an impression of people reacting to the movie, King Ralph, not to our show. Cause here's my the movie King Ralph not to our show because here's my impression Of the audience reacting to our show in real time Good and right now you the listener here's my impression of you FOMO FOMO wish I could have been there bent over in pain My ribs untickled we have news for you need dick link My ribs untickled! We have news for you.

Me dickling! It sounded like you said dickling. My news for you, the FOMO-er, is that we filmed this show. Yes we did. Professional crew, multi cameras. Running around. Edited. Yeah, we're working with a new company called Stage Pilot

and I think we've really upped our game as far as production value goes. I think this is gonna be a good video that we are offering up as a VOD. Yes, that's a video that has been demanded on you. We are responding to your demand. Ben, can you drop some of the details here? VOD will be premiering on June 26 at 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. And that, folks, is a Thursday.

It is indeed the Devil's Day. The cost will be $15. But Ben, is this a one night only streaming event? No, of course not. It will be available to view and purchase for two months. You got two month window. So closes out on August 24th. Can watch it unlimited times within that window.

Absolutely, you can goon, goon our live show until your heart's content. Okay. Put on multiple devices. Goon it. So you just can go to stream.blankcheckpod.com to get your tickets. Some exclusive merch offers available there as well. You can get some bundles or some a la carte items. We have some limited edition King Ralph inspired merch I resemble a certain regal hamburger logo how dare you yeah we have a poster designed by Nakatomi yes as well as some Joe Bowen design hats t-shirts and stickers it's

great stuff and let's say honestly I think we were very proud of how the show turned out it was a lot of fun Music I dare I admit it bits Including one prominent bit that was perhaps unretired for one night only what? We are family once again, the VOD premiere is June 26 at 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time and actually Griffin Newman will be live in the chat. Did I agree to that? You sure did.

Well, well, well. So you can watch along with Griffin Newman. And maybe some surprise guests I might draw in. No, not me. Maybe I will. I don't know. Please get your tickets now and enjoy. Please enjoy.

And enjoy. Please enjoy. But I think she works in this movie. I think the character is written a little tough for pretty much anyone to totally. She's playing it's... Look, my whole problem with this movie, which really, really kind of threw me for a loop. Was meant to be rated R and it's PG-13 instead. That's the only problem anyone can have with this movie. Laptop shut.

Is like both Biggs and Suvari are quite saintly and good in this movie. Yes, that was my problem. At the beginning of the movie, he saves the cat like 16 times. And they never really introduced flaws. So with Biggs, you're kind of like, bitch, you're clearly smart and nice.

Like just go meet some people. What the fuck is the matter with you? And cut your hair. But with Suvari, you're like, you are too smart to be behaving this way. And I know people, you know, get in bad relationships and do toxic things and like get a word out. But you're just kind of like, you're not written well enough

for any of this to really make sense. She's kind of too level-headed. No, and you have no context of who she is outside of Jason Biggs. Who is she calling on the phone? Her mom. Her mother's just like, okay, get the train when you can. Her birch and tunnel mom. I could not tell if that was her mom or like a grandma.

The way she talked about her parents, the emancipation. There's so many questions I have about this movie. I'm really upset. A key point of The Apartment is when, like, her... When Shirley MacLaine's, like, who is the brother-in-law? Sure. Yeah. I haven't seen it in 20 years. Comes in and rescues her, and you get, like, this really interesting snapshot into that character's life.

Into what's going on with her. But she just only exists as a... Is it tennis racket, the pasta? We should just directly say that this movie is an unofficial kind of retelling of The Apartment. It has too much in common to be accidental. It's inspired by, but then it's got other stuff going on too.

It's inspired by it's not legally a remake of The Apartment. And yet there are things that are legally remakes of other movies that have less in common with the original film. What concert do they go to in the apartment? No, they go to an Everclear concert. Oh, cool. Same band, same band. Big band, Everclear.

It's at Webster Hall, too. Yeah, yeah, right. Oh, fuck, I wish I could do Lemon saying, like, hey, do you want to go see Everclear? I wish I could do Lemon. Do Lemon. No, but that's a beat in the apartment. Man, you like AM radio?

They're supposed to go to see the Broadway play. Right, right, right. It's the same thing. They're supposed to go to see the Broadway play. Right, right, right. It's the same thing. They're supposed to see the Music Man. But of course, in the apartment, you're like, this is incredibly like risque and subversive for the time. And also it's about grownups, like, you know,

and it's about guys cheating on their girlfriends and wives and stuff, right? Whereas in Loser, it's like, they're freshmen in college. What, this device doesn't make as much sense. So I just want to say, okay, Ben has never seen The Apartment. We're watching this together. We come to the office. We watch Loser together. A couple cool guys watching Loser. Just jacking off.

I'm so sad that you had to see Loser before you get to see The Apartment. It is quite sad. Yeah, you'll watch The Apartment now and you'll be like, no Loser. No ever clear, where's Alan coming? I don't see him. As I said, I brought over some pizza and some Mountain Dew and we had to chill in and watch Loser in the Office.

And I like, Ben was like, what is this plot? And I was like, well, it's the apartment. And then he gave me a blank stare. And I was like, oh, have you never seen the apartment? Here's the basic shape of the apartment. A film that, by the way, won best picture. And it's a good movie. It is like a masterpiece. It is kind of considered one of the like crown A film that, by the way, won Best Picture. And it's a good movie. It is like a masterpiece.

It is kind of considered one of the, like, crown jewels of, like, Hollywood filmmaking. But it wasn't just the Best Picture winner. It endures because it was, for the time, a very adult movie, like, that was, you know, like, ahead of its time. It is one of the only comedies to ever win Best Picture. So it's talked about a lot in that context of, like, how few have won. And one of the reasons it won, and I guess it was sourcing as a surprise,

is that it is this movie that does this very deft, balancing act of tones, where it gets into some really dark and heavy shit. And doesn't feel glib about it, but also feels like it gives it an appropriate amount of weight. The basic setup of that movie is that Jack Lemmon is there is a bit of a loser CC Baxter who's kind of like an underling at sort of just like a clocking and clocking out desk job and All the other guys at the firm are always kind of taking advantage and much like this trio of truly sadistic Dorm mates that Jason Biggs has, right? But this guy's thing he does to get in good with the other guys who don't like him is he

offers up his apartment, he will give them the keys so they can use his apartment to sleep with their mistresses before they go home to their wives. And so everyone kind of uses this guy as a doormat, and he thinks eventually this will be rewarded with people giving me the promotion, giving me respect, whatever it is. He has a massive crush on Shirley MacLaine, who's kind of like the original. I get it.

Right. And it's like her in like pixie haircut, she's got a sparky attitude. She's an elevator operator. She's an elevator operator. He's in love with her. She's very sweet to him, but feels like, don't know he lacks the edge or whatever right and his boss

Says that he will like give him the promotion He wants if he lets him use the apartment as well And he slowly puts together that the boss is using the apartment to sleep with Shirley McClell damn Just to speak to the apartment's best picture when I realized this is a tangent, the 1960 Oscars, it was the only choice. The other nominees are the Alamo, which is terrible, Elmer Gantry, Sons and Lovers, and The Sundowners, all of which are like, okay,

but none are movies that really endured. But the movie that the Oscars didn't have the balls. I'm gonna say it. It's 1960 or 1961? To nominate in 1960 is Psycho, which gets the best director nomination out of kind of a like, good job with that. And it gets both supportings?

Did they not nominate Perkins? No, they didn't nominate Perkins. They only nominated Janet Leigh for dying. Yeah, why? It's clear for Psycho. She dies. She does. But Psycho, I imagine, was the actual other big smash Yeah, why I'm yeah for psycho. Yeah, she does she does but uh Psycho I imagine was the actual the other big smash of the year, but it was a little too lurid for them Yes, but the apartment's a masterpiece. It is now like something like guess who right is like

in terms of actual structure of contracts an Actual remake of guess who's coming to, like, does not mirror the plot at all. Whereas this mirrors it in, like, such weird ways, but then the ways in which it diverts are so much stranger. Yeah. I'm just thinking about Greg Kinnear's character and how he's supposed to be... Like the Fred McMurray, you know, but, you know, in The Apartment, that character is first seems like an upstanding guy.

Like a really good principal guy. Yes, that's a choice. Greg Kinnier is pure fucking evil in this movie. In this way that I think I will say it, and I love Amy Heckerling. I love a lot of her movies. I've criticized some of them on this podcast. Horribly written. Because like the movie begins with him basically being like, I'm just such a slut for teen love. I love you. I'm your professor. Like, he's saying everything out loud.

He's just being disgusting at her. And you're just like, this guy's completely charmless. Like, no one would be interested in this guy. The fact that Mina Savary is interested in him, Greg Kinnear as a smart English college professor, you can make that work for me. Totally. Like, him playing a slimeball is a little obvious, and I'm sure Greg Kinnear kind of sighed when he got the script, like, because he was kind of getting these roles a lot by

this point. But it's like you want the slime... But he's charmless. He's so nasty to her from the get-go. It's the same... From the first scene. It's the same early plays in You've Got Mail. But like, in You've Got Mail, I mean, he's pretty annoying, but you can kind of see it,

and he's a good-looking guy. You know, that's what Greg Kinnear was good at. And he's awful in this, but I don't think it's his fault, because the character is horrible. Well, like, to Chandler's point, like, in the apartment, right? The whole thing that makes the dynamic interesting is, it's breaking his heart that he is letting his boss, who he is played by Fred McMurray, who was like a

fucking Disney stock company actor. Yeah, he had never done anything like I think it was pre double indemnity. So it was like very subversive. A wonderful actor, a guy who kind of was like a little bit of a Greg Kinnear equivalent where it's just like there's it feels like something subversive about this guy who looks kind of like a Ken doll revealing this kind of slime, right? But like this guy is having this like is dying inside at the notion that he's letting his boss take advantage of the girl that he truly has feelings for in order to sort of like help his career, right? That he is sort of complicit in this.

We have to drop the apartment after this because comparing this movie to the apartment is just gonna make us crazy. That's so true. Sure, but I'm like, having never seen this movie before, I was like, huh, doing college apartment isn't a terrible idea. Using a dorm room in that way, a teacher sleeping with a student

where there's something that needs to be kept secret. I guess, but teacher sleeping... Can you kind of make sense in that casting? Sure, like I just said he did. I mean, yes, he guess, but teacher sleeping. Can hear what kind of makes sense in that casting. Sure, like I just said he did. I mean, yes, he does, but teacher sleeping with student is a much bigger violation. So you're already kind of like. Absolutely.

But again, it's more just that he just is mean to her and not mean in like a cute way. No. And he seems boring. And he sucks. They don't even do anything. Yeah, and they have no sexual chemistry. There's no sex in this movie. Excuse me, he lies next to her in bed reading the New York Times book review.

They do a lot of things together. He has that weird library. He's like, I think my whole body just relaxed. It's fucking Daniel Bruhl getting asked to play a fifth Nazi. Kniehr's like, who am I? Oh, I'm another slimeball? Great. That's great.

I'll do it. Yeah, that's fine. It's like, you've got mail, mystery men, Nurse Betty... Mystery men, another film with the sort of loser status of, all-star becomes a hit while the movie's lost. Right, while the movie's forgotten. That was a great time. But his role in Nurse Betty is exactly that too, right?

He's a... Look, everyone thinks he's cute, but he's an asshole. I feel like there's another one right around here. Oh, yeah. Like, where it's just this... Someone like you, which is the next year, the Ashley Judd movie, where it's like, I guess I'll be with, you know, Greg Kinnear, who sucks, and Hugh Jackman's like, how you doing, mate? I know he doesn't have that.

All of his movies for a while were, I'm a nice guy, rink. And then in like 2002, he's like, give me an Oscar movie. And it's like, great, do you want to play Bob Crane? And he's like, isn't that guy who fucking jacked off with his friend? It's like, yeah, sorry. What about as good as he gets? At least he got one. Well, that's before. And like, he's awesome in that movie. I think it's a wonderful performance.

But that was the thing. That was his launch. Here's this guy who's like a talk show host, and it was like no one's ever gonna take him seriously as an actor because he's like a lightweight talk show host. He's the fucking talk soup guy. He's the talk soup guy. And then they cast him in Sabrina. that flops, everyone's like, see, that's what you get for casting a talk-show host.

No, Sabrina's be- Oh, oh, sure. Right. And then as good as it gets is the moment of like, he proved everyone wrong, Greg Kinnear's got the goods, and then what you've just outlined is basically the post as good as it gets. It's everything after, yes. Like, it felt like he had won the argument in theory of, you deserve to be in movies We take you seriously and then he got pigeonholed into this sort of thing Anyone remembers that he's in Little Miss Sunshine. I think he's incredibly good. He's totally good in it

But it's like is that does most forgotten performance in that movie even weirdly more than Tony Collette whose character actually was not written every live dialogue she has in the script just says TBD. She's good at that shit. She's like, you go. Yeah. Do it. The reason I'm bringing up the apartment thing for Ben's perspective, and I know you don't want to harp on this, is just it is fascinating to me that in the basic setup of this movie, it's not about him working out a deal with the fucking professor, it's about his fucking dorm mates just hazing him for 90 minutes and then like date-drugging the

girl and then him having to like save her versus like in the apartment where it's like everything's a lot tighter. Yeah they had the apartment right there. Right there. We're gonna officially close this discussion with the verdict. The apartment is better than Loser. Okay. Controversial, but I can accept it. The thing about Loser, here's what I knew about Loser, apart from... Yeah, you knew that her name is Noelle.

Is it, though? No, it's not. I was like, okay, Jason Biggs plays a loser. He's got a silly hat. Tape of an L on his forehead. He falls down the stairs. A lot. But there's the big fall down the stairs, because that was in the trailer or whatever. What does he say?

He makes some joke about Jerry Lewis, ladies and gentlemen. Oh yeah, that's what Greg Kinnear says. He's got silly hair. Boy does he. Boy does he. Another thing my wife was freaking out about, where she was just like, I don't understand the wig right Watching this movie makes you want to take a pair of scissors and like try to cut through the TV screen

Just stop. It's so insane his hair is so much better than this His hair is finally cut in the last scene of the movie and it's clearly just Jason Biggs natural hair versus this insane Wig of death they're giving him the whole time and he shows up with the real real hair, and I turn to Ben and I go, I'm immediately 5% less annoyed with this movie. Why couldn't it have been this the whole time? There's a whole makeover montage. Why isn't that in the middle of the movie? It's actually, like, unconscionable for, like,

an audience to have to look at that hair for a whole movie. I agree. It's a terrible wig. And, like, we'll talk about it. But all I knew going in was like, he's a loser, he goes to college, people are mean to him, he struggles to fit in, he figures it out, I assume. Sure.

Right, like that's all I knew. And instead it starts with like, right, he meets three Nazi war criminals. Correct. And he has to live with them. We've got cruelty in the heart of all men. Justin Racer. At the start of the movie,

they're like moving a speaker into his room, and I'm like, right, he has annoying roommates. And then quickly you're like, oh, these are like irredeemable monsters. These are like Columbine killers. Right, and then the joke gets elevated, escalated so insanely where it's like, not only that, like they dress like Zoolander's friends.

Yes. Right, like they're in these insane outfits. And it's like kind of funny, but the movie's almost too realistic for it to work. Chandler, you and I were talking last night about The Wedding Singer, which we both love. Great movie! Right? Love it.

And how good in particular the art direction is in The Wedding Singer. I would say it's a period film and it's... Yeah, shout out to Perry Blake. Great Perry Blake. But that's what we were saying is like at the time when they greenlit it, people were like, is it too soon to make an 80s movie? And they were correct in that like it feels like it has just been enough time and Perry Blake like recreates the 80s in a way that it's just like a little accentuated, this doesn't feel like we're watching a movie from the year 2000. It feels like we're watching a film from 2025

set in the year 2000. It feels like such a fake, weird recreation, misremembering of the style of 2000. There's moments that charmed me. Maybe it's just Alan coming. I'm sort of completely against it. But there's something about in this moment, where she is capturing that year,

something is so over the top. As you said, like, the dorm mates dressing like the Zoolander roommates. And like, the fucking soundtrack, and all this stuff feels like this is like Forrest. And Ben said, well, what it is, is someone still making movies about teenagers who is increasingly only getting older.

Yeah. And it's kind of out of touch. But it's so weird because she nails Clueless so hard. Yeah, I mean Clueless is like, every element of Clueless is like pristine and like classic forever and like you watch that movie now and you want all the clothes in the movie and talk about it. Even though it's so effective. Yes, but that's the difference is that Clueless by her own admission is sort of like, I'm gonna make up slang words

that are even more insane than what the kids say. I'm gonna accentuate the fact. It's the same costume designer and collaborators on this one, like Mona May and Twink Kaplan, her producer. And I do think Ben's right, that she has no grasp on actual, like, youth events. Maybe she doesn't know men. Like, maybe that's part of it, because it's the world of. Maybe she doesn't know men. Like, maybe that's part of it, because it's the world of men.

Women can't write men. That's the lesson I've learned from this. They should be ashamed of themselves for trying to write men. No, and also, the female gaze in this movie is insane. The way her camera leers over her bigs. All of his bad toupee. His fucking...

The track marks of his... But his window curtains. I couldn't even get a handle on, and I don't think she ever had a handle on. Like, what is he? Like, what kind of bumpkin is he supposed to be? Especially with a title like Loser, you're like, you're gonna present to me a very specifically realized

version of an outcast. And she's like, he's from the Midwest, he has a hat, I don't know, he's nice. I was getting like Pennsylvania yokel. I think she loves... I think Amy Heckerling really reveres classic Hollywood and kind of Shirell Midnight. So I bet, I feel like he's like a Frank Capra kind of character, like Mr. Deeds goes to Washington.

He's a step away from a character I think about too much, Norbit. We all think about Norbit. From the film Norbit, who is an insane character in a movie filled with insane characters, who's just like, and you're just an ace guy. Like, it's like Eddie Murphy kind of forgot to do Norbit when he was, he's like, he works on everything else, right? And then he's like, oh, fuck, who's Norbit?

But that movie is also almost about, like, biblical trials that will fall. Right, exactly. So then at a certain point, you're like, can you just do something else? You're stressing me out just kind of being like, alright guys, while this is happening to you. That's what's so weird though, is as you said, like, having it just be like small town kid moves to the city, right? Scholarship kid. That's a premise. All these shitty rich kids, and he's just a little too pure, and they all dislike him for that reason.

But this movie's also trying to be like, he's so bizarre and weird that they can't make sense of him. There's happy where! Right. Outside of him just sort of being like fresh off the bus. This reminds me, I need to open the dossier. So let me open the dossier. 1997. MGM buys a spec script called Molly. Yep. Amy Hickling gets attached to direct and produce. I clocked this movie recently as her only producing credit on a film

she didn't direct. I was like, huh, what is this? Why'd she end up in this? And then watch this trailer, which is a nightmare. Sure. It stars Elizabeth Shue. It does eventually get made not by her, yes. It's a fact-based comedy about a man who has to take care of his sister when she's released from an institution. She's autistic and medical treatment has cured her and turned her into a genius. This sounds insane. It's like a flowers for Algernon for hell. It looks so fucking bad.

But she didn't make that. She didn't. In 1998, she gets attached to, she and Twinkaplin are attached to produce a feature film adaptation of the Prometheus and Bob short now would it surprise you to hear? You fucking love that shit and Ben you got her eyes out of Ben right you remember that of course I also remember you're about to lose your mind when you hear the other detail of what this movie For listeners who may not remember Kablam, do you remember Kablam? I don't know. The Nickelodeon anthology show. It was broken up into different segments.

Claymation cavemen. What were some of the other recurring shorts? Well, of course, there was Action League Now, The Flash Stinky Driver, Meltman. He has the power to melt. Justice, the dog. This is good stuff. Thunder Girl, she flies like thunder.

I always thought that was such a good show. It was so good. Henry and June hosted the show. It took place in between the pages of a comic book. I believe Angela Anaconda started on Cabo Lano. Oh my god, I love Angela Anaconda. Which then spiked off into a very big Canadian show. A few things came out of it. But yeah, it was very fun. But Pernetius and Bob was a series. Angela Anaconda was so weird. It was good as hell. Yeah, it was very fun. But Prometheus and Bob was a series... Angel and Anaconda was so weird.

It was good as hell. Yeah, it was pretty good. Do you know that Noah Segan was the voice of Henry on Kablam? Let's keep going. So Prometheus and Bob was a series of claymation short films that were, in theory, the discovered tapes of UFOs' first encounters with human life. And it was like aliens landed on earth in the prehistoric age and this alien tries to teach a caveman how to do stuff. And they were really fucking funny.

They were funny. Molly, her daughter, got her into the shorts. So that was how she got interested. I loved these. I vividly remember my dad being like, I just read they're making a Prometheus and Bob movie. And it was supposed to star Chris Farley and David Spade. Oh, my God. Then Chris Farley died, unfortunately.

That would have been incredible. I know. But the project stayed in development. Now, the creator of Prometheus and Bob, Coach Zellers, did say that the first draft of the film, which is not written by him, was, quote, the worst thing he ever read. Did they say who wrote the first draft? No. I don't know.

And then he tried to rewrite it, and he said a lot of those ideas ended up getting repurposed for the Jack Black Gulliver's travels. I don't know what that means. That is true. I don't know. The writers were Nick Stoller and Joe Stillman. Well, they did Gulliver. Yeah. Okay. So what does Heckerling actually do rather than these things? She does, of course, work on the Clueless CV show briefly.

The other thing she works on was A Night at the Roxbury, which she develops and produces. Now we address this more on the next episode, don't we? Yes. I won't speak of it. Silence. I mean, it is just a thing. Right. The whole accounting of The Night at the Roxbury thing is very confusing.

And there are a lot of like story pieces that don't fit together in all directions. Chris Katam says, who's in that film, says that she made a pass at him and then Lauren said that he was supposed to have sex with her. You can read all of his. She was at one point supposed to direct the movie.

She doesn't end up directing the movie, but does end up producing it. But I've also heard that she kind of did take over. That makes sense. At some point in production. And Chris Kattan says that he was pressured to have an affair with her by Lauren Michaels in order to help secure her on the movie.

But Chris Kattan was sleeping with three different women in the movie at the same time. He was. Amy Heckerling's response, and I believe we also talk about this next week, was, ugh, he's a nut. Essentially, like, I don't want to know what dumb shit he came up with. I have nothing to say about him or his idiot book. And Molly Israel's talked about it.

This was all when he was selling a memoir. Baby don't hurt me. But yes, another thing that takes up a year plus of her life and has only led to drama and tragedy? Yeah, certainly bad feelings. Yeah. Hackerling. So why did she make Loser? JJ couldn't find out.

Great. I mean, it does feel as simple as her being like, I love the apartment, I want to make something like the apartment. I don't think that's quite... You don't think that's it? Well, here's a quote from her. What? It's called Loser and it starts,

Jason Biggs, Mina Savary and Greg Kinnear. Jason plays a guy in college who's hardworking, decent and has a big heart. So naturally people think he's a loser, wackiness ensues. There's a crazy twist ending and no one's allowed to leave the theater during the last 10 minutes. What's the crazy twist?

She may kind of be joking. Cause there's obviously. But also, Biggs having the haircut at the end of the movie. I'm like, was the ending a reshoot? Dakota certainly feels like a last minute thing in response to audiences being like, we want to see these assholes get punished. I want to see Greg Kinnear get fed into a wood chipper. And they're just like, he went to prison. I'm like, not good enough.

There is an American graffiti style. The Punisher to kill him. Text what happened to the four most evil characters after the movie ending that truly feels like it's only to satisfy that thing of like, audiences needing to see blood. So, heckling is asked, why are you always making films about young people? She says, I guess I'm always attracted to that age group

because everything is so intense and new and that's dramatic and appealing to me, yeah From her where she's really kind of you know explaining why she made but I think also as the case with a lot of filmmakers We talk about they get so stuck in the thing They've had the most success doing that certainly JJ has dug up the project She sets up or gets attached to in between each of her films that mostly end up being films about teenagers. This is something. Give it to me.

When she made Clueless, she was forthright that she was basing it on the novel Emma by Jane Austen. But when Variety in 2000 reached out to Heckerling's reps for comment on whether she'd use the apartment while crafting Loser, CAA said she did not base Loser on the apartment while crafting Loser, CAA said she did not base Loser on the apartment. Any similarities are coincidental. Well, here's what I would say to that. Interesting. The novel Emma is public domain. Yeah, no, I know.

And the motion picture of the apartment is not. So, the studio wanted Chris Klein to be the star of this movie. Whoa! So the studio is basically just like, we need some of these guys. Pick two PIE cast members and you got a green light. Any two.

It could be Reed and Nichols. That's a very different movie and not, I don't think Chris Klein could play a loser. Well, no, but yes. He would be doing the election thing again. Yeah, exactly. Playing like, lovably stupid. Which it feels like is what this movie wants this character to be. He's smart

He went to he got a scholarship. That's the problem though, right? Like their conception of why he's uncool I think Chandler's right that it's kind of a Frank Capra thing and he's just like oh I have to live at the pet Guess I'll be really good at helping animals now too. He's just like kind of always good at shit I think that requires him to be a level of rube that goes against how smart this character is, right? Like that's the problem. It certainly doesn't make a ton of sense. That's why the scholarship, like that's why bribing the professor, blackmailing, that

you need to have something, you have to have something on the teacher to make the apartment arrangement, you know? Right, exactly. Yes. And it also just feels like they're not leaning into the level of kind of like G-Shuck's idealism that that kind of character needs. It also needed like short New York in it. Like, the apartment is an incredible New York film. I think that is very true. And I think it's a failing with the three villain boys. None of them are very New York.

I mean, they're rich kids, sure. But this movie is set on Mars, in the way where you're like, what are these fashions? But then they go see Cabaret! Here's the thing. Welcome to Denver! And then they go to Studio Session 4.

The movie is called Loser. The big thing it's asking us to buy is pointing over at Jason Biggs and be like, this guy cannot fit in, right? He obviously does not look cool in this movie and yet everyone in this movie looks So I'm like hair is crazy in his hats crazy Everyone looks crazy, but I don't get every point of him being like what's up with this and I get that It's a joke like it's heightened, but you're right like they don't make sense

It doesn't look like any stereotype of nerd I have ever seen. Right? Like, you're not... I don't know, that hat that he trades up to is so bad. Well, when she makes him wear the fedora from the hat. When he starts dressing like evil Spider-Man. This is truly one of those movies very few people have seen, right? But if you were trying to describe it to people and you say Amy Hackerling's loser, they most

likely respond with, oh, the Teenage Dirtbag movie. And number two would be the movie with the hat. Right. Because the poster is his face is cut off below the eyeballs. It's eyeballs, L on forehead, hat, loser. As if this movie was like this summer, get ready to love this hat. Wait, so do you think when... The hat was the hook. Did we dis add the line in this shape the way?

Sorry, I'm getting confused with Smash Mouth Yeah, shape of the L on her forehead smash Mouth not weed us But it feels like it could be part of it Smash Mouth should have done a pass on loser Anyway, this movie is out, oh sorry. Hectorling resists Klein. She wants Biggs. When she meets Biggs, she clicks with him.

She's like, of all the American Pie cast members. Biggs loves Fast Times original on high. He says it's his favorite teen movie. He's very excited to be the lead of a movie too, rather than American Pie, which is more of an ensemble. Shooting boys and girls warning sex ruins everything concurrent with this movie. He is flying back and forth. Yes, that is insane.

That's a terrible movie. And he has his own hair in that movie, so he had to wear the wig for Loser. Every time Biggs left Loser to go film Boys and Girls, he had to have his hair extensions burned off. Oh my God. It's insane. Why? Wait, so it's not even a full wig, it's hair extensions?

Why wouldn't they just give him a fucking wig? Or let him have his normal hair. I say this out of complete respect, right? Jason Big shows up with his real hair. No one's going, God, that guy looks too cool to buy as a loser. Right? Like this is Jason Biggs. That's his stock in trade. I mean, it just looks like he has Chris Klein hair. He's got goofball face. Do you know what I mean though? That middle part, it's like the exact haircut. He's got the curtains.

So just, we'll talk about the rest of the plot of Loser in a second, but just to wrap on that. Did you have that haircut? Did anyone have a middle part here in the room? No, I have an insane cowlick side part. I cannot middle part my hair at all. I have crazy hair. And I wanted cool guy Lars Ulrich, Tom Cruise,

Mission Impossible 2 sweat back hair. And I didn't realize that my hair was curly and thought that at some point it would just start looking At my mouth should have maybe done a pass on your hair too. Yeah So heckling and her agent Ken Stovitz claim the movie was ruined in post it was really according to Ken Stovitz The movie was really good. Okay until yeah the studio said no you have to make a PG-13 and ruin the movie Of course now only already comedy the irony, now only R-rated comedies. The irony being, ah, but R-rated comedies became king shit.

And it's like, well, they already had. That's my fucking- I wanna know what the R-rated things were, because there's a pretty blue language in Loser already. The movie's already really dark, and I can't imagine like they're being- Is there more nudity or something? Right, like cum drinking, like,

50 cent pieces. Well, I'm about to tell you something completely bananas that certainly doesn't make Loser sound like it was really good in the R-rated version. Okay, share it with me. Uh, in the version in theaters, Biggs is three obnoxious college roommates tricks Minusavari's character into drinking... They roofie her.

Yes. What audiences won't see is a subsequent shot of Dora awaking on an operating table as the three men use veterinary equipment to remove her clothing. God, if only that scene had been in the movie. Biggs, the comedy comes from the perspective of the three guys who think slipping a roofie into the young girl's drink is humorous,

but then you have me and Mina counteracting that by taking it all very seriously. I don't think we approach in a light manner at all. Ben says. It's just one of these things where I'm like, okay, well, I don't think that made or ruined the movie. This is why I want more context about Loser because what female director wants to do that scene?

Here's what's odd about it. Amy says, I didn't wanna deal with it in a preachy way. Look, I'm the mom of a teenage girl. The fact is, this is something that's going on and I wanted to make these characters as vile as possible so you know the disgusting guys." By the time they're roofying her, you already hate the three guys.

The roofie scene is just insane because the movie kind of skates by it. Not for any other reason. It happening, you're like, whoa, what the fuck? But then also, then they're just kind of like, they get... It's a plot function for him to have to take care to take over for days when he swaps out their medicine Another like save the cat kind of right. I mean this guy literally saved so many cats in a way Where I'm like I fucking get it

Yeah, like when the grandpa gives him the money, and then he like puts it back in yes David grant me this just like a quick reprieve and in his pants. David, grant me this, just a quick reprieve. And spoiler alert, but in the apartment, in the fallout of being devastated by the boss not wanting to have a serious relationship with her and leave his wife, she attempts suicide. And you have this same thing of the last act of the movie, Lemon kind of nursing her back to health

and this sort of vulnerability and whatever. And it's so weird that this is the choice she makes of how to put the Savari character in the same position, sleeping on his couch basically. She is drugged and assaulted. So just to pull back. And yet she wakes up and is like, how long am I sleeping? Two days? Okay, cool.

It's unrelated from the fucking Kenear thing. Like the Keneier factor is yeah It's like a whole other part of the movie This is not a part of the movie It just happens and then is basically not addressed and then you know, right we just sort of move on There's so many like bad teen sex comedies where there are like boys will be boys behavior that you now look at you're like Fuck, this is revolting right this movie knows that these guys are evil. And yet, as Ben said while watching it, they are so horrible, I cannot laugh.

Well, I just want to say, like, I think it's weird because it doesn't feel like this is necessarily like a feminist movie when I'm watching it. It's not like it's like a commentary on these guys and there's some like, Clueless is so smart. Yes. And it like understands like, like the scene where, you know, Cher, like when Elton is trying to basically assault Cher. Like that's a very interesting, fascinating scene.

It is because that actually feels real. Yeah. Where it's like he's being aggressive, he's an asshole. It's not comical and it's like she handles it, and it's not great. But it's also not like kind of this pure evil shit either. And like, I mean, obviously the ceiling shot in Fast Times, The Richer and the High

is like one of the greatest, like most interesting interpretations of like what it's like to have sex and lose your virginity. Like she's like in a very incredible, like feminist filmmaker when it comes to sexuality especially. And then in this movie, it's like a very incredible feminist filmmaker when it comes to sexuality, especially. And then in this movie, it's just like these horrible, like, cartoon, they're not really redeemed except, like these actions, they don't really face any consequences,

except in the chiron. Right, except in the post credits, right. And like, I just don't understand is she's so much smarter and more clever and more interesting as a director and a writer than this movie is. So is that a result of like kind of getting boxed out after Clueless? Like I don't fucking know. She should have some leeway.

She made Clueless. It was a big hit. She wrote and directed this film. She based it on a famous movie. Oh, wait, I'm saying CAA says that didn't happen. But... Uh-huh. She has movie stars She is see yeah stars. She has actors. I she doesn't have a lot of places to hide on this No, that's I was gonna say

I think it is why the failure of this movie stuck to her so hard for a movie that was not incredibly expensive and is largely Forgotten, but it does feel like Hollywood went like, thanks, you're done, right? Like after this, and a lot of it is that I think they were like, we let you do what you wanted and this is what you fucking made? I don't know if it doesn't seem like the product of someone who got to do what they wanted either. It doesn't. Because like, why do you have to film in Toronto for like 20 of your 25 day shoot? And why did it have to be, you know, why did they change the rating thing on? God that's like one of the greatest films of all time and it made so much money and culturally

Why do you have to make loser if you make clueless? I'm mad if someone Says to her. Hey, no, this can't be our rated She can't be like the American Pie guys are in it. You told me. That movie was R-rated. I have to hire two American Pie people, basically. Like, what are you talking about? And just like point back there.

Like, it just doesn't make sense. She should have been making Winner. Okay, Ben, go on. All right, okay. And would that be about the popular bakery in Park Slope that has multiple, there's a place called Winner. Ben. Like Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.

This is why he's not setting up studio pictures. Give me your pitch on Winner. Okay, my pitch is. Who win American Pie is in it. Yeah, you gotta pick. Oh, God. Stifler's bomb. Coolidge.

She's hot, no, she's hot right now, she's hot right now. She's got the juice. Right, Emmy Winner. She's hot right now. She's got the juice. Right, Emmy winner. And she goes back to school. And everyone loves her. So far, this is just Rodney Daytripp back to school with Jennifer Coolidge. But it's kind of a new take.

It's a new perspective. I'm in. Melissa McCarthy's Life of the Party, but with Jennifer Coolidge. Which is a better film. Than which? Than Life of the Party. Like, oh, the Party, probably worse than Back to School. Yes, yes.

And then her roommates are also awful, but they eventually get their comeuppance. She has them sent to Guantanamo. Exactly, yes. And they're waterboarded. And you see it, and it's an extended scene. It's like 28 minutes. This is like the ultimate example of a movie that needs to end with these three guys being hit by a truck,

right, in order for audiences to walk out not feeling... They need some final destination logs. Like they need a chemical bag. It just makes me... Sweep across the screen. It makes me so sad to think of Amy Hackerling in her like upper West Side apartment, like writing dialogue for these guys at like four in the morning, like handwriting it. Like why would she even spend her time doing this?

Well, the two films she makes after Loser, I Could Never Be Your Woman and Vamps, are both very messy. They're better than this film, in my opinion. I can really agree. You put this dead last? No. I put this above two other movies that she made.

I put this above I Could Never Be Your Woman. Really? I find I Could Never Be Your Woman more interesting. And it has Saoirse Ronan in it and Paul Rudd and Shell Pfeiffer yeah, he has me news of Ari and Greg Kinnear. Uh-huh. Sorry to those Sorry to this like my three favorite actors in the movie are probably the three demons like Zach Orr Yeah, they're and Jimmy Simpson. I always love and they actually do what they're asked to do in this very well Yeah, I like to do is just sort of like Following Hitler's order. I like Colleen Camp is the hobo who answers the phone

Ben does turn to me and go why was that the best performance? I've seen in the first 20 minutes of this movie like the only thing that's popped so far Right money and even right asking for pantyhose that worked for me. Yeah, he's... Taylor Negron. Spade. There he is, spade. Brian Backer's back again. Backer's back again. Yeah. Andrea Martin having like one line of dialogue. That kind of felt rude to Andrea Martin. The others, I was sort of like, this is part of her ensemble. I mean, Andrea Martin's busy. Yeah. Can't she show up for this. Griffin, David. What? I have news. Ben, what's the news? Okay, the sponsor we're discussing here now. Pretty Litter. I made the switch. Yeah. My beloved cat, Pig. It's been about a month or so of using this product. It's incredible. Yeah. It's a game changer.

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Booking.com, booking.yap. Book today on the site or in the app. I Could Ever Be Your Woman has this energy. We will talk about it next week, but there are elements of that movie, which is so clearly autobiographical in so many ways, there are elements of the movie that feel so axe-grandy of specific grudges that she has that it feels uncomfortable to watch

and also isn't funny. And I have the same question of like, why design this movie to put elements that are this fucking unpleasant in it in a way that is not just a just, oh, a scene that's rough to like balance out the comedy with some heaviness or whatever, but like a consistent streak of like moral morass in this film, where the only logic I can apply to it is her being like,

you know, there are a lot of teen sex comedies where like boys do horrible things and it's treated as a joke, do I wanna try to show these people for what they really are? But then that also feels like a spiteful way to make a movie. Do you know what I'm saying? And like to your point I'm like why invest this much energy Doing it. I'm not saying you can't put bad people in a movie But you cannot overstate how much like 40% of the runtime of this movie is these guys fucking with people in a way that actually feels like satanic.

Yeah, and for someone who just proved that, you know, like young female characters can make like a shitload of money at the box office. Yeah. And that like people are willing to, like people, all kinds of people are willing to like show up and, you know Like share Horowitz became a cultural icon

She also talks about true this like there's this battle. You know the loser became a culture Mr. Loser before him we all see what's his name? What's his name? Hall something? I don't even know I'm amazed you got pulled the only reason I remember me a I finished it now or good B I I remember that there's a part, because Keneer's character's name is Peter, and they go, Peter, Paul, and I'm like, that's weird of her. His name's Edward, so I don't know. Really?

Oh, then I think the joke is that he can't remember what his name is. Okay, that's the only reason I remember. Great joke from Keneer. Kind of reminds me of that, you must remember this series on Polly Platt. Oh yeah. And how like in some ways,

the Hackerling story is like very sad. And the more I hear about it from this podcast, the more I'm like, she had a secret baby with Harold Ramis? No, it's true. She had to make Loser? Karina, honestly dig in. Cause I feel like Amy will talk, right?

She's in a sort of retrospective phase of her career. But it's like in so many ways, I feel like female filmmakers, like they're always kind of set up to fail. And even when you have a huge success like Clueless, it almost, you get double penalized or something. Like you're a victim of your own success. You, even when you build a franchise,

like who's talking, you know, that just makes it so that the cards are stacked more for the next thing you do to be kind of more Invalidated yeah, I mean it's just like Hillary Weston criterion Did a great interview with Hackerling. There's the ringer interview. We referenced recently There was a New York Times profile in 2019 like she's done a couple of these sit downs and it's not like she like Mints his words and yet I'm like

In all the very good research that JJ's done he does keep it mingles like it's it's hard to pull out stuff on a lot of these. Because nobody cares about this movie so it's like no one's ever really done though like okay can you explain to me what went on with Loser Pools apart from like her agent being like, hey they fucked us! I don't know how much of it is like the vet scene, self-protection self-protection right and like survival and how much of it is like self-protection, right? And like survival and how much of it is shit, like the weird lawsuits around,

look who's talking and things you can't talk about. But it does feel like even with us like spending months, like, you know, studying her in this way, it's like, there are just kind of like narrative jumps that are inexplicable to me of just like, how does she lose the heat that severely? Where like the Look Who's Talking movies were so fucking big, right?

The first one is ginormous. And yet it was like such an uphill battle for her to get clueless made. And off of clueless, it should have been like, you know what, who are we to fucking question this woman? Right? Yeah, it's the literal concept of your podcast. Right. Like open up your. Yes. Clueless it should have been like you know what who are we to fucking question this woman, right? It's the literal concept of your podcast right open up your yes This should be the blank check and she got twenty whole million dollars to make it which is not nothing

But but she didn't get to make it in the city that it said it Well, it's a failure of this movie hit her as if it was town in country Yeah, she had lost a hundred million dollars But at the same time. The movie's kind of repulsive. This movie's not very good and it is, again, it is, it's her movie. Yeah.

Like she were undirected. Like, I mean, there's only, like I said, there's just not a lot of places for her to hide and with I Could Never Be Your Woman, which is the next movie, like you say. Yes. It is kind of weird and personal and ex-grindy in an indie movie way.

It's not a commercial film. I know. I get it. Like it has movie stars in it. So it, you know, people were fooled. We'll talk about the production of that film into putting up money for a movie they thought could be releasable. Turned out it wasn't.

Feels like one strike that was processed by the industry as three strikes. I guess, right? Where they were like, well, you're on a cold streak. And it was like, you made one bad strikes. I guess so. Right? Where they were like, well, you're on a cold streak. And it was like, you made one bad movie. She should have made more movies. I think the other thing with Hackerling is she is more an auteur. So like, there's probably like boring projects she could have done that she didn't want to

do. Oh, she talks about that. Yeah. Right. And I think a lot of the things she really wanted to do, they wouldn't green light because they'd say that doesn't sound like an Amy heckerling movie. Yes, and right She was always a little boxed in she reminds me of Amy Sherman Palladino interesting

Like brassy New Yorkers that are in love with like old-timey Hollywood Well, yeah things and they've like managed to funnel that into kind of like personal art That's a little bit off center, but like beautiful and disease- I am someone who is obsessed with Amy Sherman-Pallad. Okay. I cannot deny. Go walk. Because Killmore Girls is obviously the most important TV show of my life or whatever.

And are you sashaying? What's that show called? Etoile. Etoile? Etoile. Etoile. The whole thing that's so weird about her is she worked on Roseanne, which makes total sense that like she like vibed on Roseanne, right?

That's where she meets Daniel Palladino. I'm sorry to do an Amy Sherman Palladino. I have to do it. And then she works on other sitcoms and she gets Gilmore Girls. It's a WB show, but obviously she's like an insane auteur. And you can tell from any interview and every commentary she's ever done, you listen to those commentaries. There's not very many, she's a tough customer. She is intense.

And like she must have been, you know, you always hear stories about just how intense she was. And she's writing these like 120 page scripts, Gilmore Girls with all the dialogue, right? And the studios are like, this show is so, so insane to make considering that it's a small town comedy like what the fuck You know they fire her off her own show and the seventh season of Gilmore Girls is insane because she's not writing it And it's one of the most it's like Dan Harmon Everything is we have to fire her because the show can't run with her and then they kick her off And then it's like it runs even less now

It doesn't work without the crazy person at the center. But then what's so weird about her is like so her whole career she's kind of you know churning to stay afloat and then she makes a fucking show about like a Jewish housewife becoming a comedian in the 60s wins Emmys and Amazons like whatever you want to do for life it doesn't I don't care how niche it is the budget is yours. You and your top hat have a blank check Like now she's living in luxury Yeah, like I mean whatever yeah, that's what Amy heckerling should have had Amy heckerling should have maybe she's just a little young for prestige TV

Like maybe she's obviously cheap, but she's done a lot of TV directing in the time But post loser right she's done some like of TV directing in the time, but post-looser, right? And she's done some, like she worked on Red Oaks. She directed a lot of Red Oaks. She's done like genuine prestige TV stuff. I remember when I was working on The Tick and I would talk to the Amazon people about the shows they were working on and they were like, and Red Oaks were going to our fourth season or third season, whatever the fuck it was, right? And someone said to me like, you know, people don't know this, but like Amy Scherling,

Amy Scherling's called it. They were like, Amy Heckerling like quietly has been directing most of Red Oaks. She's like kind of taking over. It kind of rules. And I'm just like, you guys know this is cool. Why are you not then saying, hey, Amy, do you have a show you want to pitch us? Like, maybe they did, but I'm like, shouldn't that have led to being like...

Did you ever watch Red Oaks? I never watched Red Oaks. It's like, it's Heckerling, Hal Hartley, and- Was created by Greg Jacobs. David Gordon Green. Oh yeah. And Soderbergh, I think also, maybe had a producer produced it.

Yeah. It's like three kind of unbelievable directors, two of whom, like Hal Hartley and Heckerling, are like these like comedy auteurs. And the dude from Submarine, who's now become a director in his own right, who did the fucking Phantom of the Open, or whatever it's called. do you know that the kid from

submarine directed the fucking David don't give me that look yeah you do know that you know that you know that deep in your heart you know that his name is Craig Roberts and he directed Phantom of the Open with Mark Rylance which won your putters and murmurs award and you know that you can't deny that I don't I haven't seen that movie really I? I probably just shouted it out as like a movie Mark Rylance was in. You gave Putters and Murmurs to Rylance in something. He probably putz in that movie, right? Was it like Bones and All or something?

Well, I gave it for Bones and All. He's definitely puttering. You were against that performance, so you picked a different Rylance from that first, that same year, but what would it have been? I don't know, it's late. Oh, oh, it was probably that look, we have to talk about Loser. It was probably that horrible movie about the disaster that the guy who made Incremen did.

It wasn't that one, but he does part her and Murmur in that, where he plays like weird Bezos. Yeah, he was kind of funny in Don't Look Up, I guess. Here's some heckling, like some larger thoughts I've been having trying to get my head around her career, right? One is the miracle of look who's talking for me Is that she figured out such a commercial hook to be able to basically smuggle a personal story into right?

We talked about that extensively right and like that was a thing. She kind of didn't figure out how to do again Mm-hmm. I think Ben is right. I think this is Ockham's... She's getting too old for this shit. And then she does a personal story with, I could never be your woman, but it's harder to relate to the plight of a TV showrunner. Yes. Well, no, but this is... And also, I think people didn't...

Didn't studios tell her that Michelle Pfeiffer, like, was too old to be interesting as a viable character? And also the film was not released, which was an issue. That really hampered that movie's commercial prospects. No one wants to make a movie about a woman. No, my point here is, right? What is it? That Look Who's Talking was her not making a movie about a teenager, it was her making

a movie about a woman ostensibly the same age as her Sure and being able to like chart what's going on in her life at her moment But couple it with this fucking high concept hook I could ever be your woman The hook is here's how I felt making the TV show of clueless and studios were like Why would audiences want to go see this? 2007 right but anyway, but know, there's like no thing she figured out how to package the story within that made it more palatable to people. But I guess Loser is her trying to do that, right?

I guess. Jason Biggs is like her Trojan horse. He's like a likable white male that has no flaws. And he's a new star, much like Alicia Silverstone was. But also based on her, what we've read about her experience at NYU and AFI and her coming up with like Stuart Bloomberg. I don't think this is based on her life in any way. I don't think it's based on her life in incidental.

I think it's based on the apartment. But I do feel like the Mina Savary character is kind of based on her. Yeah, that's a good point. As a personality. Me, what, really? As a personality? Mina Savary doesn What really as a personality penis for it doesn't really have a person I think well, I think meanest of our his character at least has more detail

Than the bigs character does which is such a blank slate nice guy meanest of our knees character. We haven't talked about this right, she's like a cocktail waitress bottle service waitress at like a Strip joint or no one takes their clothes off. It's like a strip joint or like a sort of fancy trashy club. Run by Bobby Slayton. But Twink Kaplan is her mentor. Yes. Who is kind of serving.

Also. Twink Hot. Yeah, she's hot. I did realize at some point in this movie. I mean it's not news to me that Twink Kaplan's hot, but like she's banging in this movie. I did, I guess. Misguised no more. Exactly.

But I also put together like Twink and Mina Savary kind of look similar. Twink? Kaplan? Mina Savary's mom? They got a similar vibe, right? You're right. Sure. But the hook of the character, although things are sort of missing or context is missing.

The two main characters of the film are both struggling to survive at a very expensive university surrounded by privileged kids. So she's trying to pay her bills. She's commuting home because her mom doesn't approve of her living in sin, essentially, right? It's not, her mom certainly doesn't know that she's a cocktail waitress,

but the implication is her mom doesn't even know that she would be partying, right? Because that's what the scene with the hobo is. But I think money is also part of the equation. But the mom calls being like, would any men come into this women's boarding house? It's like, the mom is acting like it's 1963. Yes.

Okay, right? So she's commuting home, so she's lying about that. So then she decides to get emancipated, which makes no sense because she is an adult. So how could she get emancipated from her parents? She's over 18 years old. That's what confused me, as I was like, is this character supposed to be like a 15-year-old

who went to college early, in which case, Kenear's criminality has gone through the roof? I think it's trying to sort of say, like, she's a... She wants to be, like, financially emancipated from her parents so that she can be, like, legally poor and then get financial aid, I guess. And Andy Dick is like...

Andy Dick shows up for a scene where he's kind of doing Jamie Lee Curtis and everything everywhere all at once. And he also won an Oscar for this. You're gonna need some forms, you know. He, like, spits on her or some shit. He spits a prune on her. He spits a prune. And it's one of those things where I'm like,

this is too complicated. I don't know what this is. Right. And then she's gotta quit the waitress job. So like all of those things are sort of interesting. At the same time she's trying to shack up with Greg Kinnear because she's like, I need somewhere to sleep. Right, they have been in a relationship for a while

that he refuses to put labels on. He's like, I don't wanna do that because I'm a fucking weird little creep, you know. Right, I need somewhere to sleep. Right. They have been in a relationship for a while, but he refuses to put labels on. He's like, I don't want to do that because I'm a fucking weird little creep. Right. I don't want to get comfortable. Right. I don't want to get domestic. All of these are concepts of a character. These are things that would motivate a character. Yeah.

I don't see it motivating the actual character on screen much, who's basically just kind of like a nice person, who's like, I don't know. She's just so... She just has eyes and fishnets. She I don't know. She's just so... She just has eyes and fishnets. She's got big eyes. She's got big ass eyes.

She does have fishnets. She's got fun teeth. Right. She... Keneer cannot... She can't breathe without Keneer being like, and by the way, you're dressed like a crazy goth. Right.

Because she is like, eye shadow. Yeah, everything she says, he's like, and you're stupid and you're... Never want to be with you, seriously. He's so horrible. And she says something to the effect of, I know that's what he says, but you know guys don't know what's best for them. And Bakes has the line where he's like,

sometimes when people are trying to tell you, sometimes when people tell you something, they're actually trying to tell you something. Yeah, which is sort of a good peccaling line. This guy's not even hiding that he doesn't have respect for you. And she's just like, I'm gonna break him down eventually. That was actually a good scene.

That scene's okay. Because he's kind of... When he's... Okay, this is the big question I have to throw to you guys. Please. Is Jason Biggs any good... in this movie and in general? I, in general, I think... Great question.

I do like him. Is American Pie his best part? In this movie and in general? I, in general, I think... Great question. I do like him. Is American Pie his best part? That's a... I love that question out too. I think that's his best performance. Well, it's sort of like where do you fall on American... Sorry, anything else, right?

Which is such a weird movie. Sure. But I feel like Ricci is sort of like the big part in that movie, right? He's just kind of being Woody Allen. He was another in that run of just like, this guy seems like an obvious Woody Allen analog, and you're like getting that assignment

is almost always a... It's like a death note. For a while, he had kind of like a zany sidekick run, like in like Saving Silverman and Boys and Girls. But those are bad movies. They're really bad. Saving Silverman is good. Wait, Saving Silverman is good. Saving Silverman is good. Wait, Saving Silverman is good?

Saving Silverman is good. Are you sure? Yes. I remember it being pretty bad. Did you get roofied? I have not seen it since 2001. I may need to rewatch it to see if I can back up this statement, but I think it is good.

It is Dennis Dugan. Yeah. It is sort of his blank check for making so many successful Sandler movies. It's tough when your blank check is saving Silverman. Yeah, but it is kind of a movie that is just like unbridled chaos. Right, it's kind of crazy.

I remember Amanda Peet is really insane in that. Yes. Is what? Is Jenna Elfman in that movie? It's Amanda Peet is in the role that you probably imagine Jenna Elfman playing. Elfman with circles. Yes. Is what? Is Jenna Elfman in that? It's Amanda Peters in the role that you probably imagined Jenna Elfman playing. Elfman was circled. Yes. But Zan and Black are really good in it. Arlie Ermey I believe shits in a mailbox maybe or he shits on a lawn. He's in it. Neil Diamond's in it. He's listed. I think you're right. I think Biggs had like two modes. He could either be like zany sidekick or like Woody Allen circuit. Well saving silver man

He didn't really fit in either of those He's saving silver man's a weird one because he is ostensibly the lead and is the romantic lead of that movie But that is a movie that basically is like and we don't care about this guy It's really about the zany sidekicks. So Zahn and black who are the zany sidekicks kind of just run the movie Do you think that Jason Bakes can carry a movie? I, you know, I watched all four American movies at some point in lockdown. You were doing great.

I was doing horrible. I couldn't have been doing worse. And I do think he's got a pretty steady hand on those things. I think the sequels do not work. And I think like the only thing that kind of works is that he is kind of fairly sensitively showing the stages of this guy's life as a real person. He's trying so hard to keep it grounded

in some level of relatable human behavior as the set pieces of those movies become so convoluted and sweaty. The first one he fucks up by. Second one he gets hand stuck to dick with glue. That's one of the things. Oh, there's two other things. I don't remember. Yeah, but that's the big one. That's the big one that happens.

He jerks off with crazy glue. I remember that. Right. In the third one, he... He does the craziest thing of all. He gets married. Whoa. The ultimate gross out gang. I don't think I've seen that one. He shaves his pubes and he throws the pubes shavings out the window and they land on the

wedding cake. Oh yes, I have seen that. That really seems like they don't have anything. Correct. Yeah. What haven't we done? Because Stifler drinks the cum beer in the first one. Of course.

Stifler also fucks Jim's grandma in the third one. Oh my God. They start to become like saw traps. Right, yes, yes. What is the weirdest way that a thing could end up in a place it shouldn't be? Oh God, what's gonna happen? Right, right.

What happens in American Reunion? American Reunion is trying to like- It's just kinda like the big chill. They're all just like sitting around That's the weird thing American Reunion is trying to be like we're trying to get back to the original movie Which was a lot like smaller and more like sensitively drawn than people remember sure, but it doesn't quite get there There's there's a whole thing with a young babysitter where he is She he keeps looking like he's taking advantage of her, but he's not. That's kind of the runner in that movie, which is not super fun. He

keeps getting caught in compromising situations that are actually a perception issue. I already barely remember this movie I watched in the last three or four years. Yeah. Well, anyway, I do think we've decided that, I guess, American Pie has to be his best performance. Or is it loser? Or is it saving Silverman? No, I think he is miscast in this. I think he is trying his hardest. I don't think he's bad.

I think he's miscast. And I think the character is just not fun. The person you cast. I don't think it's Chris Klein. It doesn't have to be someone in American Pie. But I will say this. I think Eddie K. Thomas would have done this better than Jason Biggs would have.

The rookie of the year himself. No, you're thinking of Thomas Ian Nichols. Eddie K. Thomas' Finch, who I always thought was the secret MVP of the franchise. He's very funny in American Pie. I think he would kind of work. I remember him in the other ones. I remember the first one.

Who are you gonna say, Chandler? Well, okay, does it have to be someone from then? And I do always confuse those. Or can it be like, anyway? No, Chandler? Well, okay. Does it have to be someone from then? I always confuse this. Or can it be like anybody? It can be anybody. Anybody. Because my initial thought was Jason Schwartzman.

So Rushmore is just two years earlier. So Jason Schwartzman is basically like a thousand dollar Jason Beans. Right? It's like similar vibe. Here's a sliding door situation. Or do you want like a Jesse Eisenberg? Is it someone who needs to be more like- So Roger Dodger is two years later.

It's maybe a little early for Eisenberg. But Schwarzman's interesting to me because I'm like sliding door. What if Schwarzman is in Loser rather than Slackers? Sure, that's it. And Slackers is tough. And Slackers is similarly like being like, we're ready to feed this guy into the studio comedy system. Oh, or Joseph Gordon-Levitt. That would have been good.

Levitt wouldn't have been bad. He's done it. He was kind of doing that thing. Levitt wouldn't have been bad. Schwarz done it. He was kind of doing that thing. Levitt wouldn't have been... Like, nerd. Schwarzman does feel like the best option. Schwarzman's interesting. The question is, would they have green-lit it with him?

No. I'm trying to think, like, who's, like, a TV star, like a Topher Grace, but not Topher Grace. Well, Levitt's good because you got the third rock from the sun. And you got the heat off. Ten things I hate about you. That ten things heat. But Topher would have been better than Biggs,. But Topher would have been better than Biggs too. Topher would have been better than Biggs. Topher had made the jump of the movie.

Is Topher a loser though? Biggs unfortunately is taking a beating here because I think pretty much anyone is maybe better than Biggs. But he's not like horrible. No. I think he's better than Chris Clyde though. He's better than Chris Clyde. Of the American Pie people, he's probably the best.

I'm going to put forward Eddie K. Thomas. What did Eddie K. Thomas end up doing with himself? This is what we were talking about last night. We don't know. Is that Thomas Ian Nichols had a bigger child career before American Pie. It's over a year! Right. He was probably the most established going into that movie, and he talks about how that movie was designed to be him as the lead.

And everyone else started popping that in the edits. It got miscalibrated, which is why those characters are boring, because they're meant to just be like the center characters who don't really have that much conflict. He does get to get that book out of the library that teaches him how to have oral sex. That's the whole point though. It's like he gets the book because he's supposed to be the guy. He gets the book of love Eddie K Thomas did a TV show. He's doing a lot of stuff. I mean he was on scorpion remember scorpion

Of course, we all remember scorpion. He was the third lead don't get stung. Oh What about Ethan Embry? Embry I love Ethan Embry. Yeah, maybe too hunky.ies. No, I don't think... No, he's kind of dorky. But I think any of these also require her taking another pass at the script. Like casting the right person and then tailoring the part a little more to that guy. I also think, here's my bigger question. Why is this movie not basically told from her perspective? Why is this entry point in this character, period?

And if you're gonna retell the apartment, many would argue a perfect movie, right? Isn't like part of the reason to try to do a riff on it to flip it? To flip the focus? That's really interesting. Because that's a much more interesting movie. Like a girl that like has to commute,

can't afford to be at school, is like sleeping with a guy so she doesn't have to like sleep at the train station basically. He's horrible. This big character... All of this feels more like an indie movie. Give a nice guy a chance for once. Right, give a nice guy a chance.

He's got the hat. Yeah. You'll fix it with a different hat. Suit enough. But we said this, that the next movie she makes are indie movies, and they both clearly have the problem of her only Knowing how to make things in a studio mode. They do where they are bad

approximations of a studio movie like she didn't know how to throttle into a different kind of I think she's like cuz she sort of caught between two places like she you know They she sort of is on the mode to becoming like, she kind of could have the career of Penny Marshall. Sure. But she has the sensibility of like Elaine May. Yeah. So she like doesn't fit in the studio filmmaker box

because she's gonna like fight and make her own choices that are weird. That's a great point. And Elaine May was so antagonistic towards the studio and was like, fuck them, I don't care, right? If they don't want me making things my way, then I won't make movies. Whereas Heckerling- But she could also get, you know,

Warren Bain. The biggest stars in Hollywood. Heckerling wanted to play Balmore. I think Heckerling liked trying to figure out, how do I concede just enough, for example, perhaps, I never shoot in the city where my movie is set. Almost every film I've made is shot in a fake place outside of her two

California high school movies and European vacation oh you're right shot in Europe sure but like what's the balance right I want to try to get these big things these things made at these big companies make something commercial that right watch I also think there is this thing and all these like quotes we read of her of her talking about her like a Nate status as a pessimist and someone has this very cynical outlook on the world and that she likes when she gets to make movies about positive characters and she feels like she can find this kind of balance in a Spicoli or Cher Horowitz or whatever it is and probably her creating those characters coming from a cynical person

whatever it is. And probably her creating those characters coming from a cynical person helps prevent them from feeling too silly. She finds some grounding for them. But I feel like this, I Could Never Be Your Woman and European Vacation all have the same thing where it's like, it feels like the darkness took over. And they are movies that are all just sort of like, I hate everybody. I think everyone is stupid and insincere and a piece of shit, right? Like these movies all have this very like Defensive worldview and then when you hear things like the oh, yeah We took out this like further degradation scene, right?

You're like we already got that the characters are bad, but she's like I want to hammer that home doesn't suggest to me a nuanced Outlook no, but it's odd of that home doesn't suggest to me a nuanced outlook. No, but it's odd. She needs to find that tension in her subject. He's too nice. He's gotta do one mean thing.

The loser? Yeah. He changes their medication for ginkgo pills. But that's like incredibly nice. I know, I'm just kidding. He forges a note from Kenear's character. Right, he like does Kenear's character favors basically. He, like, does Kenear's character favors, basically. I know he's doing it to make her feel better.

He likes the girl. But he's also helping this guy. And then when Kenear's like, I'll give you an A on the paper, he won't take the A, which is in character for him. He wouldn't want to. Sure. But even then, you're just like, Jesus, this guy is so fucking holy. Can we say that Ackward, I do think, is very good in this movie?

I said that! It brings the heat! He only has two scenes. He's in the very beginning, and I was like, I'm so excited for this movie to check in with Ackroyd every 20 minutes. Check someone in once. Phone call at the end. That she overhears.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Kind of a crucial moment, I guess, for her realizing Biggs ain't so bad. It just made me remember how much I always kind of love character actor, Ackroyd. Yeah, no this was a good era for Ackroyd because this is the gross point playing era where yeah, he's a very reliable two, three scenes. I also, I take a lot of top shots at him

because it's very easy to make fun of Dan Ackroyd. It's easy. And then I've seen listeners be like, why does Griffin hate Dan Ackroyd so much? And I'm like, I love Dan Ackroyd. Dan Ackroyd. And then I've seen listeners be like, why does Griffin hate Dan Aykroyd so much? And I'm like, I love Dan Aykroyd. Dan Aykroyd means so much to me. It is so easy to make fun of all of the various weird things about him. I don't think Dan Aykroyd would even be, like, he knows he's silly.

When we did our Ghostbusters commentary, people were like, getting defensive at Aykroyd as if I was not giving him enough credit. But even like, you and I talked about it when we saw Frozen Empire, and you're like, there are like a couple scenes in the middle of that where Ackroyd makes you feel like it's a real movie. I like that movie. Just because you're like, this guy cares about Ghostbusters so fucking much. It's a good movie.

Yeah, I just think, him and this- Do you like Ghostbusters Frozen Empire? Speak on this. Have you seen it? I haven't seen it. It's a kind of fun garbage. It's kind of good. I like Carrie Coon though. Glad she's in the Ghostbusters Frozen Empire? Speak on this. Have you seen it? I haven't seen it. It's a kind of fun garbage. It's kind of good. I like Carrie Coon though.

Glad she's in the Ghostbusters franchise. I will say this. I'm glad she's in the Ghostbusters franchise. She is on fuego in that first one. Yes, here's what she does in Ghostbusters Frozen Empire. Folds laundry. Yeah, she's kind of out of the action in that one. And goes, guys, come on.

Can I tell you that this film got one award nomination in total? Was it the Teen Choice Awards? It was a Teen Choice Award nomination. But what was it for? Best wig. Best song? Best wig would be an outrage.

Best song actually does make sense. No, it was nominated in one of my favorite categories, Wipeout Scene of the Summer. Oh! You got one of the of a T.J. Awards. Which scene? Well, I'm assuming, it doesn't say, but I'm assuming it's a...

Oh, the literal wipeout. Yeah, taking a header down the stairs or whatever. Did it win? No, it did not. What did it lose to in the year 2000? Let me tell you the other nominees, and we're going to just have to figure out what the wipeout scenes might have been. Or wait, no, Griffin, do you want to guess?

Well, I'll try that, because Blue Crush was 2001. Not Blue Crush? Right, I'm saying it wouldn't have qualified. Blue Crush, the film that is shouted out in Chandler bat seats might have been. Or wait, no, Griffin, do you want to guess? Well, I'll try that, because Blue Crush was 2001. Not Blue Crush. Right, I'm saying it wouldn't have qualified. Blue Crush, a film that is shouted out in Chandler's film, I believe. Oh yeah. Yeah. I remember. Yeah.

Because Chandler's film really, it's like 2001, 2000, right? It's like you're right there in that early 2000s. Yeah, Loser could have been one of the things. Which Loser is one of these movies. If you're a blank check listener and you haven't watched I Like Movies. If you want to see a movie about Griffin Newman. Well, yeah, there's a reason I like this film a lot. Yes, because it indicts me in the way that all movies should But also I'm just like it just filled with fucking catnip for people with our kinds of brains

And grew up in a film culture. That's very sweet the feeling of a video store at that time. Yes, but um Not blue crush one is a another there's, I'm not gonna get to the winner. Yeah. There's another out and out big broad comedy that was a huge hit, Unlike Loser. In the year 2000, The Nightly Professor 2 The Clumps? You're so close. I'm so close, is it a two? No, but it's a popular black comedian dresses as a woman.

Big Mama's House. The other is an action movie. A Night's Two? No, a full-on serious action movie. It's full-on serious action from the year to the... It's not the perfect storm. That's a pretty big white pal. That would be funny if they were like bigs falling down the stairs and then it's like Clooney being like, this is it!

It's like a wave demolishing. Or like Pearl wave demolishes. Or like Pearl Harbor. Yeah, it is not those two films. It is a film that the sequel is in theaters right now. It's a film where the sequel is in theaters right? I mean, the many parts later. Is it Mission Impossible 2?

Mission Impossible 2. I don't know what the wipeout is. It's not telling me. These are kind of adult movies for the Teen Choice Award. Good point. Well, the winner is a... How many teens are watching Big Mama's House? Speaking of R-rated comedies,

the winner is an R-rated comedy that was not as big a hit as I think they wanted it to be. It was still a bigger hit than Loser. Okay. It was an R-rated comedy. It's a bigger hit than Loser. Perhaps it was a little disappointing. Was it Me, Myself, and Irene?

There you go. I knew you'd get it right from that. Yeah. Now again, I don't remember the wipeouts in that movie. I don't either. There's a part where he throws himself down a hill, which I have to admit. Sounds like something Carrie would do. That movie is not my cup of tea.

That movie is awful. I am, you know, I really try to be a Fairly Brothers Apologist. Sure. And there are them I can't even make up apologies for that movie makes me like uncomfortable It makes me incredibly Nasty movie. What's the premise again? It's

Jim Carrey is a cop a nice guy one of the most cucked men in America basically the premise is that this guy's been cucked so long and so hard and has Suppressed all of his rage and just goes like Well, okay He has three giant black sons because his wife kept cheating on him with Tony Cox Okay, so it's Anthony Anderson and I can't remember who else I remember the answer Miller might be one of the three There is a very funny scene I remember where he loves his kids which I do like like he just he's a very loving father to these giant boys. And the kids are good, aren't they?

Where they're all watching Chris Rock and Jim Carrey goes, this is one funny motherfucker. But he says it like, this is one funny motherfucker. He's this really nice guy who everyone pushes over, and he basically experiences a psychotic break, and this split personality takes over who's his bad side. Who's evil. Right.

And he's got a... He kind of switches between them. I don't know. Renee Zellweger's a witness in a crime and he's... or she's out on bail or whatever. She's in it. Fuck, I'm sorry I asked. He's got to bring her back. It's a road trip movie and he's switching between the two guys.

But it's like a nasty R-rated movie. It's like them going for another There's Something about Mary, but it's very acidic and mean. It's Gerard Mixon, who's weensy and old school. That's who I was thinking of. I just remember the only other scene is when he's staring at a boy drinking a milkshake, and he switches into the evil mode, and he goes, what are you looking at, fucker,

and the boy drops the milkshake. It's seared in my brain. There's also a scene where he sees a woman nursing a baby and then Renee Zager like walks out and goes like, what? And then it cuts and he's there sucking on her breast. It's like, this is the movie is like really. That's the kind of thing where I'm like, that can't have been in like a studio comedy, but yes it was. But that's also the kind of demeanor that Hackerlink's trying to play in.

Like she has to be part of this milieu. But that movie feels like, well we're just talking about the American Pie sequel thing where the Farrelly brothers are just like, fuck, how do we top ourselves, right? Like we just made something about Mary and we had the zipper and we had the hair gel and we had the dog. Like we had these moments that people couldn't stop talking about. And there were these moments in that movie that are so over Overly conceived but also like aren't funny and make you feel sick. Yeah

Loser I was gonna say The reason I guessed it was a Teen Choice Award Nominating is I feel like the Teen Choice Awards would often nominate movies that came out that same summer choice awards would often nominate movies that came out that same summer. Yeah, it was like a range with the studios. But also clear that they were like nominating from the trailer and being like, we hope that by the time the ceremony happens, this movie will have been a hit. And they're watching the trend. They're like, I guess there's a choice wipeout.

I don't know. I mean, choice wipeout must have been one of those things where they were like, we need categories. Yes. Jennifer Love Hewitt has to introduce her new show. What can she present? Get me some wipeouts. Time of my life. Yes. Jennifer Love Hewitt has to introduce her new show. What can she present? Uh, get me some wipeouts. Time of my life? Yes.

Yeah. The film made $15 million domestically. Not great. Got negative reviews. Came out in July? Yeah, came out in late July, July 21st. Gave it a pretty prime. Not a bad slot.

Wait, are we done talking about the movie? No, not necessarily. What do you want to say about the movie? Well, I'm just checking in. I mean, I'm fine with it. Here's the thing I want to say. Ben's excited. It just seemed like you were like, you know, getting off the highway.

Yeah, there are a couple of things I want to say. Thank you for reminding me, Ben. Jesus, Ben, we were almost off the highway. Ben, get back to your, get back on the highway. Rerouting. Any movie that has people being nice to animals, Ben loves, right? Yes, true. Oh, that's so nice, Ben.

We're watching this together. They set up this insane conceit, right? Insane. What you think is going to be the apartment-esque thing of like, how does this guy have a room that has some value? It's like these three guys fuck with him so hard, and then they want him kicked out of their room, so they bring him to the dorm.

He gets the only room available, which is, I guess, I think it's supposed to be the room a vet student would get. I guess. It's in an animal hospital. I'm watching this knowing it's riffing on the apartment, and I go, oh, this is a pretty smart way to justify why a character has a solo room. These guys fuck with him, and he smartly goes,

I'll own it, I'll say that the things they're accusing me of doing are true so I can get out of here, and these guys can be gone from the movie. And I think he's just gonna get a small solo room that everyone's gonna take advantage of. Instead, they put him in a room in the back of a vet's office that is fully operational. Not only operational, they're like, and you have to like give the dogs pages in his room.

He becomes like a full veterinarian by the end of the movie. And he knows how to like remove a membrane from a newborn. Right. That he like knows how. And he's like, no, it's kind of a good move a membrane from a newborn. Yes, right that he like knows how and he's like no That's like Sally she needs her pills or you know, like there's like a snake There's not even any other vets working there by the end of the When he's operating the whole clinic by first walks in there It's like animal hospital and there's like a thousand things happening and then every other time for the rest of the movie the place is fucking Empty it's a ghost town. You got this right? Just like 20 cats and dogs that live here. They're giving him the walkthrough and Ben goes oh what the fuck and I go what what just happened Ben?

And he goes they're just in the background of the shot you see someone doing surgery on a hat And their hands are all bloody yeah, and Ben's like like wrigglingiggling in his chair and he's like I can't watch this right It's like he's watching like eye surgery or something And he's basically like if this keeps happening and they don't justify it doesn't pay off in some way I'm gonna be so against this movie sure and then I see him pick up the cat I'm like Ben what if he adopts the cat what if he becomes a nice cat dad? That would start to win you over and Ben's sort of smiling and you're like what they decide instead is he becomes the best cat doula? Yeah, he's right. He's good with animals, but he doesn't really adopt one. No. Yeah But I think it's a thing too that Mina Savary likes having all those kittens around. She does but also she's not adopting them

She's just sort of like how are they doing? She doesn't have a home, so she can't bring one to Greg Kenear this early. I just had this moment where I said to my wife, like, and I was like, where I was like, I hate that I have to say this out loud, but I don't think this would happen. But I just like, there was just a thought of me where I was like, I had to express like, this isn't a thing that would happen. No, no. And there was like a certain kind of like- It felt like such a spoil sport.

Yes. There's a certain kind of like 80s New York like when I first moved here I paid $40 a month and I slept in a cot in the back of a vet's office Right. I said to sleep like a bat. I do not believe that NYU Says, you know where we can put you in 90s NYU Right that just doesn't fucking happen and what I believe even less is that the three demons come up behind him and they're like, Hey, so good point. Yes. One of luck. I don't know if you heard, but one guy died in our dorm of alcohol poisoning. He had a hemorrhage.

I think they say they say he fell into a coma, but then there's a joke that he jumped out of a window and Jimmy Simpson's like, yeah, he fell into a coma, which I thought was kind of funny. Good line from Leverage. Jimmy Simpson's good. Jimmy Simpson's funny. Yeah. He's your guy, Chandler. I love him.

He rules. I love him in Zodiac. He's so good in Zodiac. Debs. He's good in Debs. Yeah, Debs. We never talk about Debs. Let's talk about him.

But he, these guys are like, we can't party in our dorm anymore because of this fucking inconvenient death. Right. So they convinced Jason Biggs to let them throw parties in an active vet's office. It doesn't make any sense that they would want to. A, I'm just like,

he would never talk to these guys ever again. Sadowsky's like, well, we didn't tell you this was all, we were all in on this together, we thought you knew. This is so we could have more party space. By the way, we're hanging up lights. And you're like, you know like fucking like animals have to be operated on here on a daily basis?

And then he just has to clean all of it up, and then that's where Minasavari starts living with him. It's so bizarre. This movie is 95 minutes long. Just give him a room. I realize us describing it makes it sound like the sorrow and the pity. Like, it's like, it's got a lot of stuff happening.

It does. It does, and yet, does it? It lacks connective tissue, so the stuff kinda just happens one after the other. And then as we reference, it ends with like, and then Biggs and Savari got together and you're like, okay, what happened to everyone else? They're like, oh, Keneer went to jail, three guys, don't worry, they're all fucked up. You know, like it tries to like do jokey, legally blonde style, like post credits. The awful fates befell all of them

Right and then it has it ends on a horrible joke about Mia Savare no longer needs to sell her eggs Oh, yeah, saving them for Paul right here Yeah, oh Jesus a little bit yeah, this is a little bit of an oh Jesus David yes, hello Wow fresh. Oh A little bit of an oh Jesus. David. Yes. Hello. Wow. Fresh. Oh ho! This episode's brought to you by Hello Fresh. It's the meal delivery service. It is, it is the meal delivery service.

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That's hellofresh.com slash check10fm. CHAMLOR Chalor, we've been talking about how it is a kind of a forgotten thing that the 90s and the early 2000s were quietly a better time for female directors in the studio system. Yes. Than now or basically any other era. It was not a great time, but there was this odd wave of like ten female directors who would get to make

there were more movies with A-list comedians and like launch careers and got healthy budgets. And you had like Tamara Davis and Betty Thomas and Amy Heckerling and- Nora Ephron. Ephron and like Meyers kicking off. But even like Martha Coolidge still doing shit. Like all these-

Penny Marshall. Penny Marshall was, I mean, as you said, is the example of like, was able to level up, was able to like have her high concept movie that got an Oscar nomination that let her make more serious films and everything. Yeah, I think SNL, like especially there, that was like a great breeding ground for a lot of female filmmakers. Well, Tamera Davis basically made this thing, Penelope Spheeris obviously had a big one. Yeah, Penelope Spheeris.

But a lot of those like SNL comedy pipeline people, those movies were made by women. And Tamera Davis like had this thing where it's like, oh, she's known at helping comedians establish their movie star persona in the transition from TV to film. And she's making like CB4 and Billy Madison. And it's like, these are the people who like get to, you know, and in a lot of these cases,

um, I feel like, what was it? Well, she makes Crossroads. She made Crossroads. She made Half Baked. Let's not forget. Oh, yeah, she made Half Baked. It's also the same thing. It's them being like, can you figure out how to make your film? Here's some comedians who are kind of right known. Right.

And made a masterpiece. I mean, it's pretty good. It did feel like what would often happen was when those people swung and were like, I want to make something a little more dramatic, they were like, your career is kind of over now. Right? Like, Betty Thomas makes 28 days and they're like, no one wanted to see your drunk Sandra Bullock movie.

If you want to work again, you have to make the squeakle. Like all those people kind of just had their careers like taper off, but they did have like 15 year runs of getting to make- Mimi Leader is the biggest example too. Oh yeah, of course. Mimi Leader is like a huge enough filmmaker, or TV person, right? That she gets the two big action movies.

Yeah. And they both do okay. Yeah. But Deep Impact just underperforming, I guess compared to Armageddon. That was a big hit. Just Armageddon outgrossed. And then she makes Pay It Forward, which is the same thing of like, okay, I'm going to make a serious drama. Now, to be fair, Pay It Forward is bad. But then it is just kind of like, right, like you're saying, strike one, two and three, all just happened to you.

It all happened. I do think if a female director makes a mistake, it is three strikes and one. Karen Kusama is another one, obviously. We were talking about the sort of like, last eight years, like the future of film is female, look at these women making big movies again. Most of the examples are people who were actresses first,

and their careers kind of like hit a wall after two. You mean like... Like Elizabeth Banks. And Olivia Wilde. Or Maggie Gyllenhaal, yeah sure. Yeah, I mean Maggie Gyllenhaal's getting to make a big movie now, but already there's so much hand wringing of like,

why did they give her money to make this? Whoa! Yeah, it's also like those $20 million studio comedies just do not exist anymore. That's what it is, there were more movies. Right. There was more of a middle ground movie that you could make and so, right, there was more space to make a comedy or a half-baked. I also think there's like a really insipid thing going on, which is for a while it was like, well we don't make low or mid-budget movies

anymore. We're only making 200 million dollar movies. We can't hire women to direct those because they don't have experience making movies like this. Then there started being pushback to that. They started hiring very selectively and infrequently women to make those movies. And then when they wouldn't work, they'd be like, well, that's why you can't hire women to direct these things. And it's like you set up this person to fail. And then... Well, it's like, because it's like the Nomad land to... Totally. Whatever that... What was it?

Eternals pipeline. Eternals. Where it's like, wow, she got to choose an actual sky. She's a realtor in the Marvel Universe. Natural light. Someone on our Reddit recently called out, they were re-listening to our Wonder Woman 1984 episode. Good movie.

And I said... It's a good movie. Thank you. There's something kind of encouraging about the fact that this movie is hated, and yet Patty Jenkins has three big movies set up and it feels like no one's holding it against her as a career rune. And yet, we are now five years later,

all three of those movies are dead. She did. She has nothing new set up. Right, I mean she did make the mistake, of course, of trying to make a Star Wars movie the hardest kind of movie to make now. Look I'll say this, if you don't want to- And the Cleopatra movie which is also historically the hardest kind of movie to make.

If your goal is to never direct a film, I highly encourage you. Attach yourself to Star Wars and Cleopatra. If directing a movie sounds like a nightmare, please go in and meet on Cleopatra and Untitled Star Wars Project. What's the third thing she was attached to? Um, Wonder Woman 3. That's coming, right? Very soon. I see it on the horizon. What were you going to say, Chandler?

Oh, I was going to ask about Netflix and like streaming services and if kind of, like a loser would now just be like a Netflix original or like straight to 2B or... 28 Day, like you're talking about. I do think that is the majority of like a lot of YA movies or like sort of low-budget streaming comedies. Like Kiernan Shipka, America's most like working, hardest working actress, she's everything. She had some age, I haven't watched it yet. What was it called? I'm looking it up.

Sweethearts. That's like some rom-com, I haven't watched it yet. What was it called? I'm looking up, Sweethearts. That's like some rom-com, I haven't seen it yet, where it's her and some guy. Nico Haraga from the, the movie with Caitlin Deaver and. Booksmart. There you go. Oh, there we go, okay.

And it was directed by a woman, written and directed by a woman. Okay. I haven't seen it. Yeah. A couple people sort of said to me like, hey. And it was directed by a woman, written and directed by a woman. Okay. I haven't seen it. Yeah. A couple people have sort of said to me like, hey, that movie was kind of fun. And I'm like, oh, when did it come out?

They're like straight to Max, you know, at Thanksgiving last year. They all just go straight to Max now, or straight to Hulu, or straight to, you know. And a lot of them get a little lost. Yeah. A little lost. Yeah. Yeah, it's not like you become like a tent pole studio comedy director and you work with

like the comedians of like your generation. No. You kind of like, it's like fifth build on Stranger Things. Right. Who is the comedian of our generation? Who is the comedian of our generation? Like who are the comedians who are not getting the half cake? We were talking about this the other day.

I guess Nate Bergetziazzi's making a movie now. Bragazzi's got a fucking Sony movie set up with a good supporting cast, and we're all sort of like, -"Is that it?" -"Can he fucking figure it out?" And he did this interview where he's like, I might, like, if I can make movies work, I might, like, wind down on stand-up and start moving over to movies.

Right, although he's also like, -"I'm gonna have a theme park." -"Yeah." I guess Apatow was doing it. He was doing it. He was like his own pipeline. He was like train wreck, King of Staten Island. But he basically, he had built the like Apatow Industrial Complex,

which I talk about so much, basically was like a proto-comedy version of the MCU thing, where he would like test supporting actors out in movies to like see the idea of them being the lead in the next thing. Where you were introducing in each movie... Hey, did you enjoy Seth Rogen in Forty Years of Rogan? You're gonna be the next waves of people.

And then he just slowed way down, started doing more TV. But zero women in that universe in terms of directing. It's like Paul Feig, Nick Stoller, you know, whatever other guys Yeah, I mean he made girls. He did but this is a good question. Did he ever produce a movie directed by a woman period? Probably he produced somebody maybe not though. Maybe not. Maybe yes, you know what Dunham was his big one, but it was on TV. Yeah It's kind of at the behest of like a lot of criticism after like the fallout of Knocked Up, right? Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, I think Bridesmaids was as well of just like, OK, note taken. Yeah. I'm just scanning through now to look at the It's a lot of movies. Apatow movies. Some good. Quite a few.

I like quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Not all of them. I don't I don't think there's one feature film directed by a woman. Is that true? Oh my God. Yeah, I'm just like double checking here.

Right, cause Big Sick, that's... Show Walter. Look, what's important is... The bubble. Jed Abtow, please hire me. Yes, exactly. Yep, that's what's important. Yeah.

What's important is that the bubble is a trenchant work About a difficult time in American history The bubble might be the most unwatchable like comedy ever made because of what it's about Chandler asked me also in not being very Chandler asked me have you guys ever talked about doing Appetite? And I say we talked about all the time. We think it'd be fun The problem is I feel confident saying that if we cover him the bubble be the worst movie We've ever talked about on this pop It's down there. It's down there way down in the pits of hell and I would like to see him make anything else any Literally anything else working on something right? I get to end with all the nice Gary Shanley documentaries though

What was the thing he just because they had they had announced he was going to do the Coke versus Pepsi movie, but then there's something else that's superseded that that sounded a little more interesting. That sounds like the Pop Tarts movie. What is interesting about Coke versus Pepsi? They both are fine. They make soda. Ben just woke up. The announcement was that he and Glenn Powell are working on something. That's fun. That they are writing something together that Powell would star in and Appetite would direct.

What if Glenn Powell's in Loser? Hey guys! He's like a little, you know, country boy. Well, you'd also buy this kid is getting picked on so much if it were, what, 11 year old Glenn Powell? I don't think he was... In the year 2000? Glenn Powell would have been...

14? He would have been 12. Okay. Okay. 11 year old Glenn Powell. I don't think he was... In the year 2000? Glenn Powell would have been... 14? He would have been 12. Okay. Okay. Okay. Oh, so sweet. Wow, Glenn Powell's like basically my age.

I know, right? It's one of those things where I look at him and I'm like, that's a grown man, not like me. God, I had one of those recently that flipped me out. I mean, I had the experience watching old school where there's a scene where Luke Wilson is like, we can't start a fraternity. I'm 30 for God's sake. I was like, oh my fucking Lord.

So much younger than me. Isn't that terrible? Like when I watch like old Sex and the City episodes and Carrie Bradshaw is like 34 and they're like, your life is over. And I'm like, oh. I know the math doesn't add up, but I watch old school and I'm like, yeah, Vince Vaughn is 67 in this movie. It is how I am. I know the math doesn't add up, but I watch old school and I'm like, yeah Vince Vaughn is 67 in this movie. It is how I am. I mean, it's how I am with athletes too, where like

Like a famous athlete. I'm still like well that person's older than me and it's like no, they're not they're like 25 Yeah, they're so much younger than me, but I'm like yeah No, but look at them succeed and achieve on a grand scale. Right. That's what grown-ups do not me. Yes, you know, yes Loser came out on July 21st on a grand scale. That's what grownups do, not me. You know? Yes. Loser came out on July 21st in the year 2000. It was a pre-911 time. The year 2000. I hit that note better than the fucking teenage dirtbag. It opened at number eight, which I imagine was disappointing.

Yeah. Now, you said we've done this weekend before. We've done this one before. Main feed or Patreon? Main feed. The number one at the box office opening to $29 million is a thriller with movie stars. Is it the movie we covered? It is.

It is called What Lies Beneath? What Lies Beneath? There we go. There we go. You're seeing Robert Temeckis's What Lies Beneath. I have. And what do you think of it? I was really scared when I watched it in the back room of Blockbuster.

That's pretty scary. Or it's intense. It's not a film. Good Harrison Ford performance. Great to see Ford playing a grump. You were telling me it's not quite the castaway thing, but you're like in the late stages of post-production on a movie you just shot. Yes.

And active last minute of pre-production on a movie you just shot. Yes. And active last minute of pre-production on a movie that is gonna start shooting in two weeks. You're in that kind of cool Zemeckis Spielberg. I'm in my Schindler's List Jurassic Park. Yeah. Yeah, I do have a George Lucas that needs to help me finish my color correct tomorrow.

You know who you should ask to do that? George Lucas. He's fucking chilling out. Yeah. I'm in such a Star Wars phase. You've been back in love with Star Wars. I'm back in love because of Andor. It's so good and it's so understands like what is good about Star Wars

in a way that some recent Star Wars properties maybe have struggled to tap. And so I'm just thinking about Star Wars all the time. And I'm just back to thinking about George Lucas being a crazy guy. You still haven't watched that new ILM doc season, right? No, I gotta watch that. It's so good. I'll watch it when I'm done with the Andorra. And Joe Johnston directed it.

So he's the one doing all the interviews, right? That rocks. It rules. And he got a lot of good time with George. And he has such a history with George and George clearly respects him. Right, he actually knows George, sure. So he's talking 25 years later about the response to Jar Jar, right?

An episode that has a lot of Ahmed Best and him talking about his suicide attempt and is the most bracing version of trying to tackle the Jar Jar response. God bless him for running at that. Truly, right? And Ahmed was sort of like, I didn't really feel like anyone knew how to protect or support me during that

Right and they cut to George and they're sort of like didn't you try to help him at this time? And he was like I just told him you know I mean when the original film came out everyone hated it and 25 years They'll all like it look see I was right and Joe Johnson's like, but this was kind of different and George's response is when when the original film came out everyone felt the same way about C3PO and Joe Johnson this is the value of him directing he's like no he pushes back from behind camera goes George I don't think anyone reacted that way to C3PO and he goes oh really okay well here's an example and then he says the Ewoks teddy bear which is closer sure yeah

But the difference here is that I'm a best is like a guy Who people kept shit talking like no one was attacking Warwick Davis on the same level anyway? It was 11 years old Warwick Davis that things amazing. You know who's good Warwick Davis wicked It's one of my best friends. I think it's. And I'm gonna watch all the Star Wars movies again. I'm just telling you guys this. It's 10, 15 at night or whatever. You gonna try it with your daughter? I don't think so.

I don't know. I think she's too young for her. I don't know. But I'm just gonna watch them all again. Okay. And I'm just excited to meet Wicked. I've just been thinking about Wicked. Yeah, you know who else I love?

Chief Chirpa. He's all right. I'm really focused on him. Wicked's got this little butt. What about T-Bone? Do you care about Star Wars? I like the Empire Strikes Back. Good movie. Do you have a pitch on what your cancelled Star Wars movie would be? Would it be about Wicked's little butt? What do you mean? What's a cancelled? Well I'm saying now- Everyone's got a Star Wars project. 99 out of 100 announced Star Wars projects are guaranteed to never be made like bring people out and like star

What are you making? They're like, I don't know. It's gonna have ships or you know little cutie BB-8 Bring him back. I honestly think fucker out. I think our baby Yoda. Come on. Well, he's He's got a three picture Kroger goes, Hawaii and sounds great. Really good? He's got a three picture... Oh! Krogu goes Hawaiian. Sounds great. Krogu's got a little cocktail with a bro. I do feel like BB-8 is getting a little forgotten. Yeah, bring him back out.

Everything from those movies is getting forgotten. You know what? He kind of had a Mina Savary moment where everyone was like, this guy's gonna be working forever. You like that we're still talking about this, right? Yeah. Yeah. You know what people forget about?

You gotta keep... fuck, what is it called? The coaxium? Coaxium cold. People forget that. You need to keep it really cold. Are you gonna get that coaxium water bottle? Sure. Put it in the freezer?

Oh, I was just asking, if you remember about keeping coaxium cold. No, I'm a woman so Women don't pick up the check they don't open doors that they don't handle coaxing those are the rules My gentleman collars can handle the coaxing exactly the the MacGuffin in solo a Star Wars story is a Substance called coaxium that has to be kept very cold. And it was David's favorite bit for a while. Because it's such a story. The intensity of, you need to keep it cold, assuming that it was a thing that was gonna be forgotten

by everyone else. And then they opened this like fuckin' $500 million Millennium Falcon ride at Disney World and the whole ride is based around coaxium. Really? The ride's a flop, they keep saying, you gotta get the coaxium! And now they're making coaxium merchandise.

Ben, there's literally a newly released coaxium water bottle so you can keep your beverages cold like coaxium. And not keep it cold. Number two, At the Box Office. It's a film that I'm sure you saw in theaters. I sure did. Chicken Run? No!

Fuck. That's number nine at the Box Office. Okay, right. That was more of a June, maybe May release. It is. It's made $100 million in two weeks. Was it the motion picture X-Men? X-Men.

Yeah, yeah. Not only did I see that in the cues. You check that one out. That was my personality for the year leading up to and following its release. Have you ever seen Bryan Singer's X-Men? Of course. A normal movie made by a normal man. This is amazing to watch in person

after hearing it for so long. The listeners, it's electrifying. People always say this, right, that I think people who have listened to the show assume, oh, they must be cutting parts out in between the clue and the guess. You do just see my eyes roll back and then the answer comes out.

Oh, Mentat mode. Yeah. It's like Leonard Moulton's movie, whatever. You know what I'm saying. Yeah. It's the whole, I meet with book people sometimes, like, what are you going to write? And I'm like, I really just want to write

Leonard Moulton's movie guide. And they're like, there's no purpose for those books to exist anymore. And I'm like, I know. And let's maybe investigate what went wrong in our culture, when and how and why to make that the case. Stupid internet. X-Men, doing great. Yeah.

Was it a big hit? It was a big hit. Bigger hits were to follow, of course. Yeah. But it's a sort of something. Here's a question. In three years, the X-Men would unite. They would. Is Greg Kinnere more evil than Magneto and or Harrison Ford in What Lies Beneath? I would say yes.

I would say yes. Yeah. He's more pretentious and annoying. And yet he's the fourth most evil character in the movie. Right, exactly. He's not even right. He's probably below the fucking dweebs. Right.

Like he's maybe equivalent to Magneto, but the dweebs are equivalent to Apocalypse Mr. Sinister and Holocaust. There you go. Remember Holocaust I knew you were gonna be happy with the Holocaust. What do they retell? They retell nemesis I think they bring they introduce a character in the mid 90s called Holocaust They just backtracked His name's always been Nemesis. Nemesis. Number three, The Box Office, is another film. I was there. I was there opening weekend. In theaters.

I was buying a ticket for this film. It's a sequel. Was this the opening weekend? It sure is. It's new this week. It's opening to $19.5 million. Well, it's not Nutty Professor to the Clumps. No, it's an animated film. It's a sequel. Animated sequel. In the year 2000. Yes, sequel. In the year 2000. Yes, yes.

In the year 2000. And it opened. Then did it too. 2020. Yep. Oh man, it's not a Disney picture. No, no. Is it from the fine folks at Fox?

It's being distributed by Warner Brothers, but I think it was a P2Play. This is a movie you definitely saw opening weekend, and I did not. It is called Pokemon the Movie 2000. That's correct. I believe the actual title is Pokemon, the Power of One, but for American audiences, they called it

Pokemon the Movie 2000, in case you didn't know what year it was. So you were there opening weekend to get the trading card. I certainly was for the first two. I didn't see Pokemon 3 in theaters. I think by three they go to Miramax. Maybe Warner Brothers don't release the first two. They go to a meeting. Pikachu attacks Harvey Weinstein. Charizard. Thunderbolt. Flame broils Bob Weinstein's ass. My daughter has a pair of Pokemon pajamas. I don't know where they

even came from. I think they're hand-me-downs from someone maybe Asa honestly, okay And so now she will keep being like who's this and I'm like there are the multiple different there's six poke There's six Pokemon on her PJs name name the big six. Well, obviously the the big three. Okay, Pikachu No, no, not be Charmander star the sword squirtle. Yeah. And then Pikachu's there, obviously. It's Psyduck in the mix. No, we've got Jigglypuff. Oh yeah. Who's very amusing, of course, to say.

Her recent album is really good, too. I don't know if she has... It's a Cardi B collab. Yeah, she's kind of filling that Lana Del Rey space. And Eevee, who's a cutie pie. Wait, who's your favorite Pokemon? My favorite Pokemon, big question. My favorite classically is the Poliwag evolutions.

I love Poliwag. Poliwhirl. Poliwhirl and Poliwrath. I don't talk about Politoad. No, no, no. I like Mime. Huh? I like Mime.

Mr. Mime? Mr. Mime? Yeah, he's in that weird category of Pokemon where you're like, so this is a guy? mime. Mr. Mime? Mr. Mime? Yeah, he's in that weird category of Pokemon where you're like, so this is a guy? No, no, no, no, no. There's like four Pokemon that are humans, sort of? And you're like, what's that? The rest are animals.

You know what my favorite? Who? Ditto. Ditto? Ditto's pretty cool. I would just play Ditto nonstop because I'd be like, who's going to put up something I can't copy? Ditto sucks. Who's your favorite Pokemon, Shannon?

It's my favorite word in the English language, Snorlax. It's a great name. It's a great word. It's a great word. Snorlax is good. Raising a Snorlax is impressive, too. All right, number four at the box office is, we'll do the Pokemon someday.

Really? People have been pushing for us to do theatrical Pokemon, because that compresses it by a lot. Then it's just like the first four and Detective Pikachu or something. Well, I want to say congrats to our listeners, because apparently this show is going to run 25 years if we're getting a theatrical Pokemon. It would be pretty funny to do Pokemon.

Imagine you did theatrical Pokemon before Hal Hartley. We treat theatrical Pokemon as a director series. We do it on main theater. I think four was the final... That was four ever? Correct. To make it to US theaters. I feel like five might have snuck in. I remember the... Five might have gotten a Cinema Village release.

I remember one of them making like tens of thousands of dollars in theaters Being kind of astounding before they just started putting them all on DVD. Yeah Number four the box office a huge hit from this summer. It is a comedy a spoof film. Oh, it's called scary movie. That's right Oh, yeah, yeah, is it good? No, no, I don't remember it being actually good No, but important in a weird sort of a way. Yeah I think it's getting a reclamation Makes sense. Yeah, I just I don't love it And I like some of the Wayne's Brothers work a lot, but I'm not crazy about that movie

Yeah, number five of the box as much as I love Anna Farris Yeah, and she's funny and we're doing You can say her name slower. I love Anna and Regina. There you go. I don't know who that guy is. I liked him. Okay, he might come back.

The Lounge Singer, Griffin's new character. Lounge Guy. Number five of the box office is a film we've invoked on this episode. It is a huge hit. It's based on a bestseller. It's got movie stars in it. Is it The General's Daughter? Nope.

We've looked in this episode. Mm-hmm. It's been out for a month. It's made $145 million. Oh, it's The Perfect Storm. Yeah. A totally good movie. Like a totally solid, like, true story movie where everyone's got a sweater on

and they all get fucking killed by a wave. Sweater core. Yep. You seen The Perfect Storm? I believe I have. Wolfgang Petersen film. Did you know that? Mark Wahlberg. He's there.

There's a big wave. Clooney. John C. Reilly? Everyone's way. It's like Mary... Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio and Diane Lane. It's basically her last movie though, Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio. She kind of disappears after that.

But Mary and Diane are both It's basically her last movie though, Mary Elizabeth, Master Antonio. Yeah, she's... It kinda disappears after that. But Mary and Diane are both like, you know, like, this storm seems pretty bad, you know? And then the boat is Clooney, Walberg, Riley Fickner, and fucking, like, Bob Gunton maybe? Like, it's a great, it's a great group of guys. Is, uh, is Master... Oh, John Hawks too.

There we go. John Hawks. Is Master Antonio, like, another... on a different boat? She's on a different boat. And Diane Lane is Klee's wife? Diane Lane is on shore and she's, like, yeah, she's... No, she's Wahlberg's girlfriend.

All right, Diane, get it? Hey. That movie's great, though. And it is just kind of like, I would like more movies like that. Sure. Where they're like, there was a really weird crazy storm Yeah, bring him back. You know yeah bring him back. I also talked about in the ILM doc

There's some really interesting intel on that one. It is an incredible movie from a visual effects perspective They were like that was a real breakthrough movie I don't think like movies look better than that now in terms of like doing Watershed like it's like kind of still you're... But it was like the one where they finally cracked the code on like Physic Sims and getting it right. Yeah. Number six to the box office is The Kid, the Bruce Willis movie.

I don't think that's the proper title. There we go. Disney was sued at the last second and they had to call it Disney's The Kid to differentiate it from the Charlie Chaplin movie. Oh my God. that is true. What is that about? Spencer Breslin is like baby Bruce Willis, who's like a vision?

It's like a weird time travel thing where somehow... I've never heard of this. Child version of Bruce Willis played by Spencer Breslin as a nerd is now in the present with cool businessman Bruce Willis, and he has to learn to love his younger self. It's a turtle top. It is indeed. Is it a body switching? in the present with cool businessman Bruce Willis, and he has to learn to love his younger self. It's a turtle top.

It is indeed. Is it a body switching? No, it's like he's an adult man in the present day, and what is presumably like 1960s child version of him, suddenly just like appears at his front door. Sounds terrible. Yeah. Oh, wow. I remember it not working.

Number seven in the box office is The Patriot. Oh. Bad movie. With Heath Ledger? Yeah. Heath Ledger? Yeah. Heath Ledger, yep. That's a, oh, what's his name? Randall Wallace movie, correct? Well, I think Randall Wallace wrote it,

but it's a fuckin' Roland Emmerich directed it. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. A guy with a really good grasp on American history, as we also saw it with Stonewall. The year 2000, Mel Gibson had The Patriot, Chicken Run, and What Women Want, and it was the first time I believe a movie star had $300 million grocers in one year. And not only that, Patriot had broken the record for the highest an actor had been paid upfront for a movie period. He's The Patriot. He could not have been more dominant. Yep.

And then he has what, like right after that he's got signs and stuff? He makes signs two years later and then two years after that. We were soldiers. We were soldiers at the following year. It is okay. Signs is two years later, is humongous. Or three years later, whatever it was. And then he basically soft retires and makes a fucking passion to the cries.

Did that thing do okay? I think he took a bath on it. Yeah. Eight is loser, nine is chicken run, ten is me, myself, and Irene. Wow. What are your friends? You're at the pictures. Number 12 of the box office new this week

is a film called The In Crowd. Oh, yeah. What would you do to get in with The In Crowd? Oh, my God, that poster, I just had like a full Proustian memory. Incredible poster. Who's the line up in that one? Blarp, Bloo Bee, Blarp, Bloo Bee, Bloo Bee, it just made up people. But interestingly, that-

Is it like the people from like, like Brendan Fair or something, like Smallville actors or something? That feels like one of those movies that had a like Valentine urban legend style poster with eight actors' faces. Eight faces and it's like all of these people didn't get parts on Melrose Place for some reason. Susan Ward.

Susan Ward, yes. Laurie. You know Susan Ward? She's in like 10 Things I Hate About You, or like Never Been Kissed, she's in one of those. She's in Shallow Hell? Talk about Fairly's. Uh, yeah, not a great career. She kind of has, like, a sad face.

Of course. Susan Ward. Laurie Heuring. Uh, Matthew Settle. This was directed by Mary Lambert? Who I like. Yeah. Yes, it is.

Wanker Dude Pet cemetery? Yeah. Crazy. Yeah, kind of a legend. There you go. Wow. you did Pet Sematary? Yeah. Crazy. Yeah, kind of a legend. There you go. Wow. The Amy crowd.

That's the Amy Heckerling trajectory. Yeah, but man, this thing was flopping hard. Well, yeah, what the... Nathan Bexton, Tess Harper, Laurie Fortier. Yeah, these sound like made up names. You know what I mean? And that's how I felt watching Final Destination Bloodlines, which I said to you, Graeme. Yes, it's great.

Where I'm like, I don't know a single one of these motherfuckers. There's something kind of refreshing about it. And then when they're gonna bring in the grandma, I'm like, okay, who'd they get for the grandma? And they're like, surprise, nobody! Some respectable working actor. But here's the other thing. They're all good. Everyone's good.

They're all totally good. I'm not dissing them. Like having just rewatched all the Final Destination movies. I just did not know who they were. That is often the Achilles heel of those movies where there will be someone who is like the third lead and you're like did this guy win a contest? Like he got guys shooting the lens. That's also tripping over cables. Mary Elizabeth Winstead in three is so good in it that you're like this is almost overwhelming the movie. She's actually too locked in. And the lead woman in two is very good as movie. She's actually too locked in. The lead woman in two is very good as well.

She's good, AJ Carter. She's more I would say in the right zone. But Bloodlines, everyone is good. Everyone's great. Have you seen that movie yet? No. Chandler, it rules. It's kind of rules. I love the franchise. It's behind us back.

If you love the franchise, you will like this movie. You will watch this one and you'll be like, oh this is what all of these movies have been trying to be. Really? They finally cracked it 100%. You will watch this one and you'll be like, oh, this is what all of these movies have been trying to be. They finally cracked it 100%. Is Devin Sawa in the first one? Devin Sawa is in the first one. I just remember there's a thing about putting something in the microwave and there was the Mentos

in like Coke or whatever. Yep. And there's the tanning pad. Look, we've had a lot of great kills over the years. That was the first movie I snuck into, like that was R-rated. Yeah. How'd you get in?

I think I, like, went to another movie and got in. Yeah. Alicid. DBS. Loser. We discussed it. We discussed it. Fucking Jesus Christ. Bedtime. We had to do it.

Remember, like, 45 minutes ago when David was like, so I think I'm ending this episode? And we go, no, no, no, that's not how things work. You talk much more about the movie. We talked about a lot of really great stuff and I think this was a really important episode. I just wanna say to Amy Eckerling or any of the associates if they're listening,

I love you and you're an incredible filmmaker and inspiration for many. And please put a clue on the Criterion collection. There is a 4K 30th anniversary coming out from Paramount. Not of loser to be clear. Let me double check my notes here. Yes, it would be nice if it got that kind of respect on it, but it does, everyone's sort of like crossing their fingers

to see this new restoration. Cause I think they're also putting it back in theaters this summer. Really? I think they should. Oh, back in theaters this summer. Really? I think they should. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. Look, I don't even hate this movie because it's so weird.

I agree. Like, it's one of those things where I'm like, I was kind of engaged by it. There's stuff. Your letterbox log was like, this movie is vile, but I'm not sure I'm saying that as a totally bad thing. It was, uh, let me find it. Letterboxed.

Deeply bizarre and kinda evil, brackets, somewhat complimentary. Right. Yes. Kind of an evil movie, though. It felt evil to me. It is. There was an evil in this movie. There is.

It taught me a lot about wigs and how you shouldn't make anybody wear them. Wigs and bigs. Wigs and bigs. Never put a wig on Jason Biggs. No. Ever. Ever. Big can't wear wigs, yeahs. Never put a wig on Jason Biggs. No. Ever. Ever.

Bigg can't wear wigs. He really only wears the hat for like five minutes. He's been bad a lot. Maybe he's in it more than I remember. But I'm like, if that's the wig, then he should never take that hat off. I was so relieved any time the hat came back. And going in, I was like, I hope he doesn't wear this fucking hat too much. They must have done camera tests. No one during the camera test was like you know

It's kind of an unflattering haircut even beyond that like the lens didn't shatter when they fucking tried to point it at the wig Well, that's why the movie cost 20 million dollars But her hair is bad too, it's so spiky Just catching on fire. Like who is the hairstylist? I don't know. Chandler, thank you for joining us. Chandler, I Like Movies is pretty thoroughly rentable by this point.

Yeah, it played for six months in Japan. Hell yeah. Had a very successful Japanese release. That rules. See, I can understand. It seems like it spoke to people. Hideo Kojima loved the movie. Had a very successful Japanese release. That rules. See, I can understand, yeah. It seems like it spoke to people. Hideo Kojima loved the movie.

Really? That fucking rules. He tweeted about it, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's how it got on my radar for the first time, was Sarah Pauley kept like waxing poetic about it after seeing it at TIFF? Yeah.

It's been unbelievable considering it cost, you know, the price of Jason Biggs wig Negative one million dollars For free, but be careful it comes with a price Your movie will suck it will ruin your career. Oh my god will ruin your career. Oh my God. Oh man. But yes, rentable and then the film you're finishing now. Yeah, it's called Mile End Kicks.

It's my Indie Sleeves movie. Hell yeah. Mile End Kicks? Yeah. Stars Barbie Ferreira from Euphoria. Hell yeah. And Jay Bareshell. Hey, Canadian legends.

And Devin Bostic. Canadian legends. Roderick. And Stanley Simons from The Iron Claw. Hell yeah. And Juliette Garry P from Red Rooms. This is a great cast. Red Rooms, which by the way, I mean, that movie rocks. It's the best movie ever.

That movie is putting Canada on the map. It's the best. It's the country of freaks. David Fincher movie he ever made. Not since maple syrup. Ben, I think it would freak you out, but wow. It's a cool movie. You might take it.

It's such a masterpiece. Red Rooms, it's called. And really, that is incredible. It's scary. Oh, OK. Yeah. It's a movie about how the internet is good and normal. An Indy Sleaze movie is such an exciting opportunity

for a soundtrack. Oh, tell me about it. And some haircuts. It must be like, it's almost intimidating it feels like. It's a curse and a joy. Yeah. Because it's very expensive and a lot of negotiating and stuff. But we do have a Peaches song.

Hell yeah. Fuck the Painted Way. Oh, you got it. Classic. She's generous. I wrote her like a very loving letter and she gave us an amazing deal on it. That's incredible. Can I make some soundtrack suggestions quickly?

Of course. A teenage dirt bag. A pretty fly for a white guy. Blue da ba dee. Get down tonight. How about She's So High? Yeah. By Dale Buckman.

That's this movie. Oh yeah. What's My Age Again. Thank you for being here Chandler. Oh my god it's an honor and a privilege. A rare blank check after dark. And thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe.

Tune in next week for one of the most normal movies we've ever covered. I Could Never Be Your Woman with the great Karen Shee record returning to the show. Hush. That's not true. Next week... Is there a new release? 28 years later. That's what's happening true next week. They're a new release 28 years later That's what's happening. I forgot and then I could never be a woman Karen Chi which is great. Yes

I'm excited to see those zombies me too. What are they up to? I don't know whatever they're doing It's gonna be fast visiting Miramax. Maybe much like the Pokemon No, we want to send all destructive forces to the Mere Max offices. But tune in for that. Yup. Yeah. Goodbye. And as always, of the many things that got

Ben's ire up while watching this film, I think nothing pissed him off more than seeing several rows of beautifully shiny gold plush velvet seats and saying, is that supposed to be Webster Hall? Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hossley. Our creative producer is Marie Bardy Salinas. And our associate producer is A.J. McKeon. This show is mixed and edited by A.J. McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Burch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in the Great American Novel with additional music by Alex Mitchell artwork by Joe Bowen,

Holly Moss and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to blankcheckpod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon blank check special features for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes. Follow us on social at BlankCheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced

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