BTC Sessions - WHY ARE WE BULLISH? Nolan Bauerle, Kendal Pappas, Mickey Koss ep397

Episode Date: February 10, 2024

FOLLOW TODAY’S PANELISTS: https://twitter.com/countbtc https://twitter.com/bitcoinkendal https://twitter.com/PlebiusEconomus BOOK ME for private one-on-one sessions on my website! Learn self custody, hardware, multisig, lightning, privacy, running a node, and plenty more. https://www.btcsessions.ca/ 💪 SUPPORT THE SHOW: Nunchuk Wallet and their Honey Badger plan is a best in class assisted mutisig setup with built-in inheritance planning and NO KYC. Check them out today! https://nunchuk.io/ SEEDOR is one of the most robust metal backups on the market today. Get your SEEDOR starter set today! Use this link for 5% off. https://www.seedor.io/discount/BTCSESSIONS?redirect=%2Fcollections%2Fprodukte For US based customers: https://www.seedor.io/btcsessions Canadian customers: https://link.thecryptoboutique.ca/BTCSessionsSeedor Start9 is your Bitcoin & lightning node, and full personal server - enabling you to take back control from the gatekeepers of your money and data! Grab Server Lite,One or Pro today and become truly self-sovereign! https://start9.com/ Coinkite offers the BEST Bitcoin hardware on the market. Use this link to get 5% off anything in their store: https://store.coinkite.com/promo/BTCSessions HodlHodl is a NON-CUSTODIAL, NON-KYC solution to stack sats peer to peer! Buy and sell Bitcoin while maintaining privacy. Sign up and try it out today! https://hodlhodl.com/join/BTCSESSION

What is going on, everybody? Welcome to the show, another Friday, another episode of Why Are We Bullish? Awesome panel tonight. Very excited to have everybody in. I hope you are all having a great Friday as well. It's nice to have a little bit of up-action instead of crab for a change. So that's fantastic. Maybe the whole GBTC thing is slowing to a crawl.

We'll see. Either way, you know, if you haven't been stacking sats, then you have reason to be sad. But either way, it's looking like a good week. We're going to bring everybody in momentarily. Of course, this is live. Anything can happen. So I defer to my friend Bill here. Live.

Okay. We'll do it live. Do it live. I can write it and we'll do it live. The thing sucks. Now, if you have not already, please do like, subscribe, share all those things help a ton getting this content in front of my eyeballs. Hit that little like button below the screen. Share this on whatever socials you're on.

And of course, smash that subscribe button. I'm on the warpath to 100K. We're getting close to 89. So let's make it happen. Anyways, guys, I am Ben with the BTC sessions. This is your daily session. Before we bring in our guests, let's take a quick look at where we are in the market. right now. I'm pulling up

Timechain Calendar.com and simultaneously I'm going to be adding the live chat over on the side. Everything you say from here on in will be live for the world to see for better or worse. So on TimeChanecallender.com, we're sitting at $47,238 per coin. A single US dollar will pick you up

2,117 sats in terms of Bitcoin fees. Holy moly, 21 sats per bite, some relief from the fee storm that we've had earlier in the year. So that's nice, you know, but prepare, prepare. You never know when that thing's going to spike. So you want to be ready, get yourself some lightning funds, perhaps liquid if that's your forte. But either way, be prepared for those high fee environments, consolidate those UTXOs. And in terms of Bitcoin mine, 19.62 million of them, that's 93.44% of the entire supply.

If you guys have been going through the tutorials on the channel and maybe the hundreds of hours of free stuff is not quite cutting it and you need some additional handholding, you can reach out to me personally at BTCSessions.ca and book me for private one-on-one education sessions. Shout out to sponsor the show HottleHoddle.com. If you're buying Bitcoin and your priorities include peer-to-peer trading, instant self-custy and no KYC,

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you'll get 18% off. Anyways, with that, I'm going to wrap up my rambling and we're going to get in all the important people. So I want to welcome to the stage, Nolan and Mickey and Kendall. Good to see you all. Thank you so much for being here. Very excited to chat. Let's get some intros out of the way so everybody in the chat that may be unfamiliar with you gets acquainted. So I'll toss it down the line with a quick, who are you and what do you do? Nolan, I'll toss it to you first. Welcome back, man. Thanks, PTC session.

Ben, yeah, we can call you both. I don't know why. Yeah, whichever, whatever tickles you fancy. And congratulations on the 100K quest. It's a goal of anyone who's tried out that platform. And I continue to do videos every day and it goes slow. So I have nothing but absolute admiration for the number of you. reached and look forward to seeing your cool plaque in the back this year.

One day, one day, we'll see. We received one, so I do content for Bitcoin magazine. So I do their Rumble daily show. Well, it's my own show, it's the breakup, but it airs on their Rumble channel. And I also program live events for them. So we've got the upcoming Bitcoin Asia in Hong Kong. You can use my promo code Space Drop. not an air drop. That's a space drop. Completely different thing. And it'll also work for the

Nashville show, which I also program. So Bitcoin 2024 in Nashville. And that'll be July 25th to 27th. The Hong Kong show is May 9th to 10th. I'm jelly about the Hong Kong one. And that one came like, you guys just recently announced when and where that was happening, right? Yeah. And there's a big push over there. They have their own spot ETF coming out and so there's a desire over there to have that sort of publicly broadcast and aired and to see if they can

do any market making with folks who are doing it over here and that kind of thing. So Hong Kong is out there trying to attract a lot more business to its short. We're going to go check it out. That's cool. Well, that's cool. I've been to Hong Kong. I think it would be cool in the context

of a Bitcoin event. So I was there in early Bitcoin. I did a 2016 Bitcoin trip through that town. So it's going to be exciting for me to be back. I can remember working for CoinDesk at the time. Someone, I made a joke that asked me where I worked. And I said, coin, you know, I said, you wouldn't know it. It's fine. Yeah. It's 2016. It made me bullish at the time. You know, and they're like, I said, CoinDest and they played dumb. They're like, oh, I've never heard of it. And I was like, well, it's this little media company. And, you know, and I said, oh, can't. That's hilarious. You know what? I was in Hong Kong in 2016 as well.

And I'm sorry, I'm going to segue into a little thing here, but I just think it's, it's funny to note how much has changed over that period of time. But it's when I first started the channel, probably within two months of starting the channel, because I started in 2016. And I was looking for people to interview the first little bit out. And I reached out to a dude. He was super gracious, more than willing to give up his time for just somebody who had no idea who, he had no idea. do who he was, whatever. So that guy, he brought me up. He's like, yeah, come over to our office. And I come in and I'm like, oh, this is pretty nice. Like again, Hong Kong was out a little bit further. He takes me up. Very nice place. I'm like, oh, so is this, this floor yours? He's like, no, no, no.

This one office is ours. It was very tiny. It's basically the size of the office that's in my house where I do this. So like a tiny, like, and it was basically two desks and two chairs and a laptop. And I did an interview with him there. And that guy was Arthur Hayes. I thought I was waiting for it. I was waiting for it.

I knew it was. Yeah. Incredible. Later on, like fast forward a couple of years and they had like an entire floor of the most expensive real estate on the planet. And they put a live shark in it. I put a lot of charting on it, okay? Yeah.

So from those humble beginnings and everything that, you know, continued on from there. But man, like seeing those early days. And anyways, I digress. Well, we haven't booked Arthur yet, but it's soft confirmed. Soft confirmed. He's got to decide on the skiing and what's going on in Japan or something like that. But I hope we'll see him there. Yeah, yeah.

I like him. He was very nice. but let's toss it down to Mickey next. Mickey, let's give you an intro, let people know who you are, what you do. Hey, so I'm Mickey. Spent about 10 years in the Army, started writing on accident, published a few articles, and then I ended up, I left the Army about two months ago to go pursue Bitcoin full-time. So I'm now the business operations manager at SAS Mining.

It's a hosted mining company with some really cheap power in Paraguay, and there's no KYC. So if you want to stack some big KYC-free stats, hit us up. Nice. And last week we had Kenton from SAS as well, and he was a great guy, so I was glad to chat with him. So that's awesome. Also, you were very kind in covering the SAT market that we did here in Calgary in one of your recent articles. So thank you, man. it's not the first time that you've been kind enough to throw my name out there,

but I do appreciate it. Yeah, so I found the best way to get Ben to respond to DMs is to just publish a Forbes article about him, and then he gets back to you. My DMs are a mess. I'm so, so embarrassed. But yeah, that's great. Well, let's toss it down the line to Kendall.

Thank you. Awesome. I had someone who made a comment earlier about that. They're like, tell him on you, check his D.Ns. Yeah, yeah. But also you're hiring help. So I am. I need an executive assistant next.

I know you do. I've just made my first unofficial hire. Yay. Intative. We're doing a dry run. No announcements yet or anything, but we're doing a dry run. And I'm thinking that it could be a good fit. And then, and, and, but there's, that's just the first.

It's a good problem to have, you know. Yeah, yeah. It's, apparently I'm like, I'm ghosting people left, right and center, so I need, I need help. Anyway, Kendall, please give yourself an intro. I'm Kendall. Yeah. I, uh, I own a company that makes natural soaps and bath products. I've been in the Bitcoin space since 2017 introduced there and by my now ex-husband,

but I used Bitcoin to escape an abusive relationship. And I've also started, well, since that time, like trying to find a space to connect with other Bitcoiners and just trying to find like my place. like my place in in this world. It's like I just make soaps and I don't know anyone that that had any interest about Bitcoin. But I started a meetup group in upstate New York. I've had some great connections. And I've tried to integrate, you know, Bitcoin as much as I can into my business and

my life and just like really focused on teaching and educating. And just being involved like wherever I can. That's awesome. That's great. And this is what I love about what you said about, you know, how you're making, you've got, you've got an existing business. And you're like, wow, where do I, where do I fit in into Bitcoin here? And you're, you know, finding those connections and everything.

But part of, part of, I think, being a good Bitcoiner is offering value to others. And the fact that you already had a. a business that did that. And then you just said, well, I'm going to then also kind of integrate Bitcoin into my life. And I'm just going to continue doing the stuff that I'm already good at and just accepting Bitcoin for like that is the most Bitcoin or thing of all. Provide value for others, spend less than you earn and save in Bitcoin.

Like what what greater formula is there for success? I think it's going to benefit you greatly. Yeah. And, you know, and like everyone. said to me, or everyone always says, like, just do what you do what you do and add Bitcoin, you know, incorporate Bitcoin into your life. And it was so hard for me at first. I'm like, uh, how do I, you know, how do I do that? But then starting to accept Bitcoin in the business, like in the website, like on the website, in store, um, but also, uh, through OSHA app,

we do stats back rewards for every single customer, whether, you know, I'm, I mean, if they're paying cash, it doesn't happen. But so anyone that comes in the store, they have, they get stats back. And about 35% of them actually like accept it. So it's a pretty cool program. And I think like that's been helpful in incorporating that into, you know, into, I guess a client base that really isn't introduced to Bitcoin. at all ever yeah damn that's awesome i love it i love it well i'm i'm very glad to have you on i saw i saw um some clips of you you were just recently on uh with dj val as well as well right dj valer

she's fantastic so um well that's great well again welcome to everybody uh thank you guys all for joining the show this evening we're gonna we're just gonna go and dive right into it everybody in the chat also thank you for being here keep those messages coming we're gonna We'll see them up on the side of the screen. I see already, you know, Mickey did indeed go for the kill. But we're going to dive into it. Anybody that's here that's unfamiliar with the show, this is called Why Are We Bullish? Very simple premise.

Each one of us has come with a reason for being bullish. And this can take any form. It could be a personal experience. It could be a news item. It could be a new app or device that we played with. Really, anything is up for. is eligible. And so the flow of the show is, number one,

somebody's going to drop their reason for being bullish. This is their chance to rant and get off their chest, whatever they're excited about. Number two, altogether, we're going to riff on that reason, comments, questions, whatever rabbit holes. We want to go down, super easy, casual conversation. And finally, number three, we're going to rotate to the next person until we've all had a turn.

So reason, riff, rotate, easy. I'm going to start us off today. And I was kind of, I kind of had two different reasons for being bullish prior to the show, but I realized that they actually kind of, they actually are meshing into one and the same. And so one of the things that I covered this week in my tutorial was an app called Primal. And Primal is for Noster. decentralized social media and it

is just like a really easy way of onboarding to use not only Nostra for the first time but Bitcoin for the first time so it's like you can get it on Android or Apple, it doesn't matter but you basically download this app you set up a profile

anybody unfamiliar with Nostr the long and the short of it is it's censorship resistant social media and you're not you're not subject to the algos. Nobody can tell you what to say or what not to say. And nobody can shut you down.

And furthermore, you can picture it like this. If you were, for instance, on Instagram and then all of a sudden some fancy new app came out and you're thinking, oh, God, I'm going to have to start up a new account and I'm going to have to tell everybody to follow me there. And I'm going to go there and I'm not going to have any connections or whatever. Nostra is the opposite of that. Great. There's a new app for Nostra that comes out, and it's got all these bells and whistles that the currently one that I have doesn't have. I simply log in to my same account on the new app, and everything is there.

All of my old posts are still there. All of my contacts are still there. Nobody has to refollow me in the new app. And in fact, if the person stays on the old app, they are still following me and seeing everything new that I do. So it's the, you know, with Noster as the back end and rails for social media in the future, there is no capture on a particular platform. There's no stickiness to a particular app.

It's you're free to flow and go as you see fit, and there's no censorship of your post. This also integrates with Bitcoin very easily because the native, we'll say the native currency is just very easy to bake it in, is lightning. And so you can, instead of liking a post, which you can still do, but if you really want some weight to appreciation of a post, you can zap somebody. You can send, you know, sats via lightning to a person. And the cool thing about Primal is it has a built-in lightning wallet. So you're effectively downloading censorship-resistant social media and money at the same time. And it has like a native wallet, but also a purchase option in the wallet where you can just hit, buy and if you're on iOS, it'll just plug into your app store, whatever credit cards on file.

It'll buy you five bucks worth of the sats and it'll load up your app and you can just start zapping right away. Vice versa for Google, your play app, whatever credit cards on file, it'll buy five bucks with a Bitcoin. And it's actually just strike in the back end that's doing that. So it's like the easiest onboarding, download, put a profile picture. You've got an account, hit buy. It's already plugged into your app store.

And it's a nice, easy, first inroads to that. And it might be a lot of people's first experience of Bitcoin. And the cool part about it as well is that the wallet interoperates. You can send out to any lightning wallet. You can receive in from any lightning wallet. So it's that first kind of exposure to, oh, this, I just, I have money and I sent it. And it's just there right away. And it's that initial exposure.

But the secondary part of my reason for being bullish is the idea of our evolving understanding of what lightning itself even is. I think that especially this past year of kind of fee spikes and craziness happening on chain and people grappling with the fact that, you know, Bitcoin on chain may be at times much more expensive, much sooner than we had anticipated. And so in a way that's good because it holds everybody's feet to the fire to make sure that they build the things necessary to make Bitcoin accessible from a, I guess, economic standpoint to everybody. How many companies, because of this past year,

have said, oh, we're working on adding lightning or we already have, or how many are now experimenting with combos of lightning and liquid, or fetamints, or e-cash or all these different things built on top of Bitcoin to reduce fees, perhaps add privacy, and kind of skirt that line of like, you know, the absolute best is on-chain, you know, self-custody. But for day-to-day spending, maybe a federated model is okay, or maybe using e-cash or maybe like spending the money to have a dedicated lightning channel through a lightning service provider. there's all these things that are popping up that just did not exist before.

And so I think we're starting to see the early innings of the idea of lightning as a glue that holds all these systems together and is interoperable. Maybe you're using like a fetament and you want to pay somebody that's just on a custodial wallet. Or maybe you have your own lightning channel and you want to pay somebody that is, using liquid, and so they have Aqua Wallet and it auto swaps. But the common denominator here is there's people using Bitcoin in all these different capacities, but Lightning is connecting it all. So the user gets the choice of what tradeoffs do I want? I'm a purist. All I want is on chain and I'm willing to pay the fees to do so. If that's the case, there's starting to be these

mechanisms where people that are on different variations and solutions are able to send through lightning and have things swap. The person on the receiving end gets the variation or the way of holding Bitcoin that they prefer. The person on the sending end knows no different. And so I think lightning becomes that interstitial tissue for everything. And that's going to be very interesting. and it's not what we expected when it started. Nice use the word interstitial. Yes. Thank you.

So, yeah, I'm curious what your guys takes, like, where are you at in your Bitcoin use, I guess in and around how it pertains to lightning? And how has your Bitcoin use kind of shifted over time? How are you viewing lightning currently? I think primals, like a pretty, cool onboarding. So I know a lot of people, they used to, you know, if you download a wallet of Satoshi, I'll pay your tip in Bitcoin. I think primals even better than that because it's sort of that lightning wallet paired with education because you can sort of immediately integrate into the

community. I'm still sort of in accumulation mode. And so, you know, at like Pacific Bitcoin, I'll, you know, send some stats to, you know, like, you know, river or actually I used wallet of Satoshi there. But so I don't, I don't use lightning super often. I guess I do some freelance work and I invoice people in lightning from from time to time. But I don't make a ton of transactions on it. Yeah, that's fair. And I mean, again, like it's really, I find it's dependent on where, again, you said you're,

you're mostly accumulating and just like into cold storage. So like that's your particular use case. I'm curious like Kendall, you're coming from the perspective of, of a merchant. And so like what is your flow in and around that? Because obviously it's been up and down with on channel. How are you handling that?

So I, yeah, I have like a whole different perspective when, when it comes to lightning because two years ago in the business, we were accepting everything on chain. And then the fees got too high. And then we had to, you know, kind of transition to lightning. But then, like, I'm in New York. We have limited options.

And then, and Wald of Satoshi was great. That was like our go-to. Then we can't do that anymore. I don't have, like, strike. We can't do river. We can't even do cash app. So I've had to kind of like, like play around with literally everything.

Like every single light, I've tried like every single lightning wallet. And, you know, right now I'm just like working with Phoenix. And but it has been a hard. And this goes like in two different directions, right? Like I know what I'm doing in my business. But then I'm also trying to, you know, onboard other businesses and sell them on the idea of accepting Bitcoin and then it's like, oh, wait, but all these like changes in things and oops, sorry, like, that's not going to work anymore. So I love the like ever changing environment.

I know, you know, the smart people will get us, you know, where, you know, where we need to be. But it is hard on the business side. And it changes constantly. It's a little bit frustrating. Actually, it's really freaking frustrating. And, but it's part of like what we're doing, right? Like, lightning didn't even exist before. And so it's like, it's kind of like fun to be part of the process. And but it is also like a pain in the ass. I'm not going to, I'm not going to lie.

Like, I slash hate it. Well, you're, I mean, you're accurate in that assessment. I would say like the interesting part is. is all of us on this call, and every Bitcoin are up to this point, is in a unique position where we're basically building out an entire stack of financial infrastructure. And all of us, up till now, have been doing the equivalent of a global international settlement for every single tiny transaction. And we're now, we've kind of graduated to the point where, like, at the very least,

every single person needs to be very cognizant of how efficient they're being on chain. And in the future, we'll be onboarding Bitcoiners that in all likelihood will never directly interact with the base chain or at least not in a fully like, I own this entire UTXO kind of way. You know, it remains to be seen how that exactly works. But yeah, like you're basically dealing with the fact that, okay, we established a global base layer for settlement and everybody that was using it was just using that and now there's another layer on top and now it's clear that that layer has tradeoffs and may serve as again like that connection layer for everything else but the everything else is like what are those things

that's new now so yeah like I will give you a couple of things that you might want to try that you may not have tried yet there's something called CoinOS or CoinOS. And it's a web-based thing. So you can actually go on the web. It is a la Wallet of Satoshi style, everything. But it's a unified balance for lightning, liquid, and on chain. So regardless of what the person sends you, you receive a unified balance, which you can then send out through any of those mechanisms. It also has a mechanism in which you can auto sweep. So you say, I'm uncomfortable with anything above this level.

When it hits this auto sweep to this on chain address or this ex-pub or whatever. So that might be an option. And it does have a nice little merchant keypad thing on the main screen. So that might be of use to you. Yeah, no, I appreciate that because I was introduced to that recently and kind of going down that another rabbit hole. But I've heard a great thing. Okay, fair enough. Awesome.

Nolan, I want to toss it to you as well. What are your thoughts on kind of this evolving, how the hell do we use Bitcoin question? Yeah. Look, in the old days, I remember wasting, I don't know, maybe a whole Bitcoin trying to make like a robot feed water to a plant in a backyard that was like 0.05 bitcoins a shot. and we were like jumping over each other to hit the button.

So I can remember when it was easy to spend and it was crazy. So I got into hoarding after that. So I didn't really care about how to spend it. I was just going to spend the other stupid money that I was making. And I was not going to spend any Bitcoin. But with the lightning question, I do use Zappstream for a little while and was getting quite a bit of sats through the lightning tips by live streaming with it on Noster. So that was pretty neat.

But in the end, it's the same thing. I would have had no reason to stop. But actually funding my account became complicated. I was using Get Albi. And it wasn't letting me fund the account properly. I kept trying. I would get an invoice and somehow it wasn't working. And, you know, I got to set up all these channels every day.

And literally any obstacle that I have to do every day will just become too annoying for me to keep in my system. Because when you do a live show every day, you kind of got to limit your. technical burden. Yeah. And that's one of the things. So again, you know, I'm still of the mind that, and I write science fiction stories about how like on-chain transactions will literally be super rare one day and they'll be like a global event that people will want to see and watch and observe and it would be like,

like an eclipse. Yeah, yeah, like a crazy, really. So, you know, there's a world where that happens. And frankly, I always have thought of on fee. People don't like it. Like I get that it's not a good thing for remittances and all that. But even when I was doing data and that kind of stuff at Coin Desk, I rated more interest in Bitcoin, as in Bitcoin is priming. And, you know, people are coming to Bitcoin by high transaction fees.

It just meant congestion traffic and literally interest, right? You know, when we think of too many of these crazy economists from the Fiat world, interest is some complicated thing. It's not. It's just like, are you interested? Is it interesting? Are people interested? It's like the Bidwise commercial, you know? You know what's interesting these days? That's what's interesting. So that's kind of how I see it. And I think it'll continue to be limited as far as, you know, I don't see lightning for me personally becoming something that I use every day. I look over in Argentina and I see what Malay is sort of teaching people about bimetallism. People don't really know before the gold standard, there was a thing where we had

two, and it was silver and gold. You know, Wizard of Oz is really about that. They weren't ruby red slippers. They were silver slippers on gold to talk about the financial system just before the Federal Reserve began. Wizard of Oz was written just before the Federal Reserve came out, not when the movie came out. And so Malay talks about this a lot, right? Biometalism. It's what you have in El Salvador. You have dollars like silver in the time for small transactions to buy your cup of coffee.

I don't care. I bought coffee with Bitcoin at Starbucks in 2019. I've done it. Like I made a video. I promoted a show with it. Like it's been done a million times. I don't feel a need to do it. I'm like, wow, I bought a coffee in Manhattan with a Bitcoin.

Yeah. Stupid. Right. So I think that we're going to see in Argentina, and that's kind of what we've already seen. Malay has talked a lot about bimetallism. It's not gold standard. That's not what he's talking about. And you can really see it. Like what we're seeing in some of the politics here is that there will be something like political money, like fiat money. And it will look a lot like buying food stamps and coffee and things like that, right? That's the world they're building. That's what they want. They want political money. They're going to get it. They're going to get food stamps from.

money and you're going to want money you save that is easy to save that anyone in the world can save that doesn't take a series seven license in wall street to save uh you can do any job you want and save your money doesn't require a big IQ or anything like that so does does political money become become something like points rewards like like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah the ubi is also the cbdc is also the tell me about your mother's maiden name and your dog's name and every it's like it's like you'll take it if you're getting it for free but like let me get let me get something of value out of it like nobody nobody keeps their their rewards points or their air miles as currency but they're like maybe i can redeem it for something kind of and the rules always change you're like well i can't

get shit for this anymore what the hell i had a hundred million points now i can like put a coffee mug or something isn't air canada devious lately Aren't they inflating the shit out of those aeroplane points? Isn't it terrible? It's the only inflation in Canada that's driving me nuts. Yeah. You know what? In the end, Stephanie Kelton will have been right.

Money is just points. At least. So, Ben, if you link your credit card to like cash app, you can actually cash, you can cash out your points direct deposit to cash up and have them automatically converted to Bitcoin. Oh, my God. That is such great. Oh, that's awesome.

I do use the cash app wallet. Sorry, I forgot. If there are some weird lightning things, I have found the cash app wallet to be fine. So say that again, Mickey. You can cash out your what? Yeah. So if you use the direct deposit feature with like cash app or strike, you can link it to your credit card. And you can cash out your points as cash back to like an external bank account and just have it deposited straight to cash app.

strike or whatever and just convert it straight to Bitcoin. Everything becomes SATs back. Everything. All the SATs back. We need that. Honestly, again, like living on a, as close to a Bitcoin standard as I can get, it does make you kind of consider what you're spending your money on, right? Like, you know, obviously the Fiat gets dumped first.

whatever the fiat doesn't cover it's like I gotta convert this bitcoin and then it's like well every expenditure from then on in is like these are sats not dollars do do I need this thing do I actually want this thing and then you know it's a bit more of a conscious decision which it should be like people people don't know how to budget people don't know how to properly like gauge if something is worth the fruits of their labor because the fruits of their labor it degrades over time until now. And the incentive structures within the Fiat system, I mean, it's a confuseopoly. Like, the reason why you can't compare cell phone plans is because no one wants you to compare

cell phone plans. That's not the goal of the person selling the cell phone. They want to literally confuse you, right? They want it. Basically, all of Wall Street is that. All of Wall Street is just products that are all slightly different, one from the other. So you can never do an apples to apples comparison. And so it's all about your feelings, how you feel about it.

And then you're screwed. It's just like, what? What just happened? You're managing all my money and how much am I paying? There's actually more, there's more ETFs trading than there are stocks. And so they just shuffle. They just shuffle the deck a million times. Well, the other part of that, too, is a financial institution will create all these different

ETFs and like 90 something percent of them will be total shit. and then the one that like vastly outperforms everything because if you throw enough darts at a board blindfolded, something's going to hit the bull's eye, they they advertise this one performed amazingly. And people are like, it must be because they were so thoughtful in their allocations when really it's like, no, no, they threw a thousand darts and this was the best performing one. and now they're advertising it. And meanwhile, they've got a thousand new darts, like, on the ready. So, yeah. And they come back serious. Like, you're supposed to take them seriously again.

Like, they did a bunch of work in the back room. They figured it all out in math. And now they have the new answer to graph. They got a graph. It's like a retarded Greg Farr. It's just math, guys. It's just math. No, it starts, guys.

It starts. I love Greg. I miss Greg. We need Greg back to make more math means, I think. Anyways. It's gone. All right. So let's do it.

I guess I'll cap it off on that mess of a point. We'll put a bow on this topic and we'll rotate and we'll keep on going. I want to toss to it. I'll toss to Nolan first and I'm going to queue you up with the same question. everybody's going to get, why are you bullish? The other side of the trade is what has me bullish this week. The other side of the trade, it's not really all about buying Bitcoin, as fun as it is. As much as we love buying Bitcoin, there's also the selling of the dollars, if we think of

things and the health of our world and all that kind of stuff. And of course, yesterday, so one of my predictions here is that with the U.S. dollar abdicating its position being well, weaponized, whatever happened the past few years, right? We heard it from the Tucker Carlson Putin interview, right? Weaponizing the dollar, which I predicted the beginning of the week was going to be one of the policy sort of subjects that he chose. Now, simultaneous to that, you had Joe Biden giving his own thing last night.

But what I saw actually were two old people, right, like the 30 minute history lesson is like an old guy. Like, what are you talking about, man? Are you trying to talk to Americans with a 30 minute history lesson before we can start talking? Have you been around America lately? Have you seen TikTok? We don't have 30 minutes, buddy. It ain't gonna work, right? Now I get there's other audiences and all that,

but it doesn't matter. He kept referring to the centralized government. He kept talking about bricks. He kept talking about all these things. Now, that's fine. What you see and the opportunity that Bitcoin has is to come up the middle of these two systems, obviously, and to just become the psychological reference for the energy markets, right?

If you can measure energy in Bitcoin, We win. You don't need every single Pleb in the world to buy Bitcoin. You don't need, as nice as it would be to win the whole thing that way, as nice as that would be, right? That everyone just wakes up and they all buy some Bitcoin and short the governments and we keep going. That would be great, right? I see Donne saying distorted history. Yes, yes, yes, distorted history. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But what I mean is the reasons, the governing systems that were offered to us in contrast, none of them looked very attractive this week. I mean, they looked so bad. They looked pathetic. And they looked like the kind of thing that would lead to Larry Fink, for example, talking about wide-scale de-risking from a governance system that a little while ago they said was the greatest thing ever. So everyone even arguing for the nation state.

So part of where his history was distorted is even describing the nation state and a centralized nation as this vehicle that achieved all these things over time. And that's not really true. I mean, nation states haven't really been, they were the most successful, but that's not a normal way for us to organize ourselves. We've done it in many different ways over time. So interestingly, on the same week, you had El Salvador, right?

We've almost forgotten at the beginning of the week, we had Buckele winning the largest majority in the history of whatever they call this voting and democracy thing, right? So he goes out and wins the biggest one ever, offering a completely different model and something entirely new. So I think that that idea that a lot of us think is possible that Bitcoin right here, right now can start wedging and separating state and money once and for all.

And to break the monopoly on nation states being the sole issuers of this instrument, which they've abused and haven't been successful, right? So my argument is Putin is right to talk about bricks, but it will also fail. Like no one's going to trust that shit coin. No one's going to be like, hey, what's going on in the Shanghai super? credible market in and for oil, right? What's happening there? And then we saw, you know, for example, Canada, right? We see the repercussions.

We had HSBC this week admit that a huge portion of the Canadian real estate market was absolute garbage, fake money brought from China and used to inflate the Canadian real estate market. So you have this situation now where the reasons to sell government-backed debt as money have never been more obvious. And, you know, Putin was the part where he was correct was talking about the sort of mental illness the world is suffering from right now as the money itself changes, right?

And that part I disagreed with him. He talked about left brain, right brain, how America can adapt to this and it can adapt poorly like he said it was doing. But inevitably, you know, I take the more Jungian approach of a subconscious and a shadow and the process of individuation and how do we have feedback from our own impulses and things like that.

And we can't count your money, when you can't actually have the feedback loop of understanding, well, I misallocated some money. And now that we lived through COVID and we were told by people who are very clearly unhealthy, how to be healthy, you start to realize you're listening to poor people tell you how to be rich and stupid people tell you how to be smart. So now we're finally waking up to this broken governance system. And I think the reasons to sell dollars and the capacity that we all have to orange pill people,

just on the first point, before they get into any memetic knowledge of Bitcoin, 21 million, countable, unconfiscatable, before they even get to the memetics of Bitcoin, which will travel beyond any censorship ring or circle that I would be concerned about. Bitcoin can resonate at higher levels of memetic communication than any sensor could possibly pick up. So we're fine on that level. But getting people to understand that the system we live in is corrupt was much harder before this week. I mean, much harder.

And so what we had in America this week was almost akin to what a Canada enjoyed with the truckers, which was like, okay, this is the whole game. Okay, I get it now, right? We all thanked Justin, the greatest orange pillar in the history of Canada, for what he did by declaring us all terrorists a couple years ago and for honking his horn. Basically, throughout the entire banking system, all the credibility of Canada, everything it had had going for it.

And images no one will ever forget, ever. So it just became really easy and obvious to sell the Fiat governance model, not just the Fiat, not just dollars or banks or zeros. I love all those memes, but just the idea that the whole thing is irredeemable and not even salvageable, right? Not even salvageable. I'm bullish on that. It's,

and you see it, you see it from people that, that haven't pieced it together, why yet, but like, I mean, you see those, those videos of people in their cars and they're,

they're crying and they're saying, like, I can't believe I'm, I'm, I'm an adult. I've, I've worked my whole life. I have a good career.

I'm a nurse. Um, I've been working for 20 years and this this was a good job and it I can't afford groceries. Like what happened? I don't understand. Like we were my wife is a nurse and we were sorting through. She has seen they're now, I think they're trying to negotiate. something like a, I can't remember.

It's like a sub 2% raise. Or they just gave her 75 cents extra an hour recently as like a, which is like such a slap in the face. And like over the course of her career, the like cap out and the start wage has gone up something like, single digits, 5% or something like that. And we're trying to calculate like how much. of her purchasing power has been eroded. And she was saying the other day, she was like,

I, when I started at my entry wage, and she's now capped out, she's been a nurse for 14 years. And so she's at the top of her pay bracket. And she's like, when I started at the lowest wage, I felt better off. Like I could actually afford life more. And we did the math. And it's because she could.

It's because she could. Her entry wage for somebody just starting as a nurse, her pay increase to just as, to basically keep herself where she was at that point, would have needed to go up 50% at the base wage. And it didn't. And so like, hers, she basically, I can't remember the exact math, But basically her purchasing power has decreased like 20% over the past decade and a bit. But her wages have gone up, but her purchasing power has gone down.

So she's right. She has actually gotten poorer with pay increases over her past 14 years of work as like one, in my opinion, one of the more important jobs. Like you want to be able to go in and get fixed when things are broken. Or like she lives or she works in postpartum. So all the newborn babies, I'd say pretty. it's pretty important to make sure that moms and babies are healthy as they go through that. Yeah, well, that's like, yeah, let's go to Mickey and then I'll back to Nolan and I'm curious Kendall's thoughts as well. I was going to say, I sort of see the like sovereign individual thesis playing out in real time where it's like the media.

So at least the decentralization of the media or the or like the slowing down of the censorship on on Twitter especially. is making it harder for like these these places of authority to lie you know it just becomes so obvious that they're that they're just lying straight to your face and and then you sort of combine that with with bitcoin where you have the sovereignty to just take all your wealth and just pick up and leave and so if if there's any benefit from this whatsoever is is probably that nation-state competition that the sovereign individual spoke about where where nation states it's like embrace Bitcoin or people are just going to take all of their wealth and leave and it's like I don't it doesn't matter what your tax laws are you know if you just you just pick up and leave like

okay tax my private keys I lost them in a lake like a buck they're gone I don't know scuba accident you know what I mean and so it's like these you see the kind of you see the countries like El Salvador embracing it and they're prospering. And then you see countries like Canada, the United States that are just like trying to strangle the baby almost. And it's just going to slip right through their fingers. Like if China couldn't do it, like there's no way the United States can do it trying to maintain some semblance of freedom, you know, for their people. Like good luck, United States. You're not going to be able to do it. Ukraine's going to do it. They got a new app That if you draft dodge, they shut your bank off.

Oh. What are we doing to do, guys? Oh, no. Not my bank. Maybe, okay, let's talk it to Kendall first because I want to get her thoughts on Nolan what you said. And then if you have any other things to add on. Oh, yeah. Being in the U.S. and like seeing, it's hard, like, seeing how.

no one gets it. That's like just like a super frustrating part. And like you're saying Ben like with their wife and like and her experiences. It's I don't even know how how you how you get that information out there and like get get anyone to see it. What's important? What's going on in their lives like what they're experiencing because it's just they're just like, okay, this is how it is. And like I'll just take it and I don't know it's yeah but when I see those videos and what I think like the reason I guess I'm bullish you know is is a lot like what you were saying Mickey it's not even about arguing anymore like the the conversation changed because you can move away because you can alter the game itself you don't have to play by those rules anymore in the fiat world we were all

kind of led to believe you had to like make an argument your argument had to be better Right? It was like policy and we have like political opinions and we're going to put one opinion against another and then the smart person wins and that's what we do. And then the money will be better because the smarter people made the bank policy. It didn't work. It didn't work. And now we're not even having to debate it anymore. Like the Fiat thing to perpetuate like the node propagation of the Fiat system is the media. It's literally money based on government decree, government declaration so they require something that propagates the words itself right because the words are a big part of its construct so now that they don't work it really does open up the entire field that

they literally don't work and it doesn't look like you have to argue anymore people making these videos having these realizations it's come down to actual security and and your ability to survive and your ability to thrive and be healthy in this environment so that that that coming from an individual having that as their motivation will kind of blunt any fear or any other type of propaganda. So that's a big win for us. Like I just find that we have to go against or the power of the propaganda that would stop us has greatly diminished to the point where I don't really see it as the obstacle that I once did. It really was the main obstacle and it looks like we're going to, we've got other problems, but that one's going to get solved.

Yeah. And yeah, Kendall, to what you were saying before, like, how do you begin to communicate you know, what's in front of us and where that problem stems from? I think, I think Nolan, as you're saying, like, it's becoming easier. Just you won't even really have to explain the technicals of it, like what's going on under the hood because people, it will just be a given, like, most people don't understand how most things work and they trust them because they have worked up until now. And now I think the inverse is going to be true. Most people don't understand why our system is broken, but they'll just

know it's broken and they don't want any part of it anymore. And so they'll be willing to try out other things that maybe do work for them. And they'll also see people that have already jump ship to the new system flourishing. And there may be some animosity there, but there's also going to be a desire to have the same. And so the people that do make that leap will see their lives gradually improve. And yeah, so I don't know that it's a thing that,

yeah, at this stage up till now, it's needed to be explained as to how it could possibly work. But we may be transcending that moment to the point where everything's so irreparably broken. In the face of the powers that be telling us that it's not, bold face lying saying everything's fine. The economy is better than it's a. Did you see how cheap Thanksgiving dinner was? Because cheapest ever, you guys. Like the lies, straight lies.

And people, like, when you're lived. experience is the polar opposite of what somebody is boldface telling you is happening, you just trust goes out the window. It's just, yeah, but, I mean, it's so hard for people to accept that, that change, right? Like, Stockholm syndrome, maybe. I don't even know what it is. It's just like, if it's different, it's wrong. And it's like so it's so ingrained in everyone's mind that, you know, that like what, what we're living is how it should be.

And I mean, I just think, too, like from dealing with politicians that it takes a lot for, you know, anyone to accept. even like when they're really hurt and broken and suffering, right? Even financially, it's like, okay, well, this is just how it is. And I can't wait until we get there. I think it's just, you know, a little bit harder of a path for, I think it's going to have to be like a little bit more difficult for people before they realize that like the extent that they're being lied to and what's going on. how to understand like finance, economics, any of this.

You know, it's just like, okay, this is my life now is kind of how like I see people dealing with it. And it hurts. And it's like you're trying to be like, this is fucked up. Like this is like there are ways to, you know, to fix things. And I've got a question for you then. And I'm wondering if this. So there's in, in, and I'm just kind of like.

completely paraphrasing, but there's been studies that people are more likely to act to prevent losing something they already have than to gain something that they never had. And so one of the ways that I could see this working to the advantage of people moving to a Bitcoin standard, right now people are worried, I'm going to, I'm going to shift to a new system, and I'm going to lose something that I currently have. It's unknown. I don't know. What I think we may start to see, and that may start to seed this idea of losing something you already have, is people that do get on a Bitcoin standard and do understand it and are merchants or, you know, in whatever capacity, and they're accepting Bitcoin, they don't offer, and this is a big thing

that I've started doing, I don't offer a discount for Bitcoin. I enforce a premium for Fiat. And this is what I love about. So ZapRite, if anybody's ever seen it, it's a really easy like set up. Oh, ZappRite. Zapp right's amazing. And they have allowed me.

Yes, Parker Lewis. What an absolute legend. And John over there, like they're all doing incredible work. But my favorite thing about it, they allow you to add Fiat payment methods, but they also allow you to add a premium to Fiat, payments on any of those portals. And so I started doing that and my Fiat premium was too low.

And I didn't want the Fiat. And part of it was like, you know, some of the easy payment methods for Fiat, it would land and they'd be like, great, you've got a payment. We're going to scrape away this amount of it. Also, obviously, you can't have that right away. We're going to hold it for 11 days. and at that point you can have half of it. This is Stripe, by the way. Fuck right. They're like, they're like,

you can have half of it after 11 days. Then you're going to have to wait three full weeks to get the remaining half. And like literally fuck Stripe. But what I did to make, because people are so used, they're like, they still saw the 10%

and they were like, I'm still going to use credit card because I charge a 20% premium if somebody wants to pay me in Fiat. because I don't want it. I don't want it. Fuck, stripe. Can I say it again? But like, pay me in Bitcoin. I don't want to. I will gladly add a 20% premium. And on occasion, I still get somebody say, I'm going to pay the 20% premium. But you better believe they quickly learn how to pay me in Bitcoin afterwards. Yeah. I've got some sci-fi Bitcoin sci-fi books coming out. And indeed, if you buy them. First edition, side. If you buy them digitally, I've been telling my, I've been telling the breakup gang.

And by the way, talking about how it's hard, Kendall, that's why I call my show The Breakup. We're literally in a relationship, like a toxic relationship with our money. We love money. Everyone loves money. That's literally why I call it the breakup, because it's the only way to think about what's going on with that other side of the trade. But yeah, with the book, that's what I say is that the way I described it to the breakup gang one morning, it's like, if you put my money,

money inside a prison and I have to go get it. But there's no worry about me getting arrested. That's fine. I can go in the prison, but I don't want to go in there. Like I got to touch things and I got to like, there's all these people around and looking at me and like, why are you coming in here? And it's like, I got to go to a bank and get the money out. What are you talking about?

Like, I'm not doing that. That's ridiculous, right? So I'm the same. I said it's going to be a thousand percent price hike on the yacht for the book. So it's going to be like, it's going to be like, it's going to. be like $1,000 for the book on it. I think like it's funny because like the 20% thing though is what works like on my end too. Is that what you came to? Yeah, yeah. Like I, yeah. And but and just in terms of like how the mind works, of course. So doing we are so like the way the mind works,

we always want to do the same things. Right. That's what's comfortable. That's what we think is safe. So doing something, anything different is, is deemed as a threat in like our subconscious as opposed to what we do every day. Even if it's fine. Like it, but, you know, like I know someone, this is like a like a side rant, but who this is really bad. But like his girlfriend like stabbed him and he kept going back into the relationship. But to do, you know, to be in a different relationship in. in his mind was so much more of a threat than leaving that one. And so that's how we deal with our lives all day,

every day, right? Like everything we do, this is like what's safe to us and doing anything different because it's so unknown. Our mind doesn't know that it's safe. So you have to kind of like get there. And it's a challenge for like literally everyone. And then once you get there and you see that it's okay, like you're kind of reprogrammed. But that hurdle, it's like so funny that like we're all going to stay in these shitty situations,

these bad situations, financial, like whatever it is, just because like that's how our mind works. What, what you know every single day is safe. And it's just like helping helping people cross that hurdle and understand. but you have to just help them get there. And once you get there, it's like, oh my God, yeah, this is better. This is better, way better. Honestly, I think, again, to that point that you're now doing the Fiat premium, I think that's one of the catalysts to get people, again, like you say people are worried

to make that jump, but at a certain premium, there's that feeling of I'm losing more by not trying the new thing. I'm losing 20, you know, like somebody's, something's a hundred bucks and you're going to have to pay $120 if you don't pay in Bitcoin. People are like, oh, my, like, well, I may as well go and get some big, even if it takes me some extra steps, I'm willing to pay that, I'm willing to save that 20% by, by learning something new. And I think, I think that might be what we start to see more of, because,

Bitcoiners are going to less and less want to accept Fiat and they're going to be willing to charge more and more as the Fiat system gets more and more broken, they're going to be willing to put a higher and higher premium on their prices just to avoid that system. And even like in the store we do, when we do sets back, I do 20%. And I remember like Michael Atwood was from OSHA, she was like, oh, that's a little aggressive. I'm like, but if that's going to help, like, get some people there, like, they'll understand. I think someone getting 20% back is more likely to accept it and, you know, accept those rewards. And then whatever they want to do with it, like they can hold it and come back into the store.

They can build on it and put it in their own wallet. But I think if I was doing like 5%, people would be like, ah, I don't really care. But when I'm doing 20% people are taking it and then they're kind of like, you know, learning a little bit more. And but I do think, like, it is kind of funny. And I know I would like to look into a little bit more about it on the marketing side. But 20% seems to be this number where everyone's like, hmm, yeah. Like that's, that makes an impact.

Yeah. And the comment I'm going to say in the comments down here from Don, he said, or they'll go to the next merchant, which is a fair point. However, it also drives the point that people that are spending and using Bitcoin are, as I alluded to earlier, very conscious of where they put their money. And so there's almost like a built-in, a built-in quality control mechanism. One of my favorite people that produces art is Maidex. And he does some incredible pieces, and he, I'm paraphrasing him here, but. You said if, you know, in the early days, you could, you could create a piece of art and slap a Bitcoin B on it and you'd sell some stuff or you'd create a piece of merch or whatever.

You slap a B on it and people would buy that shit. But it's getting to the point now where like people understand that stats are sacred. And if you make a shit product and somebody spends the spell spends their Bitcoin, which is precious on it, you will not maintain customers beyond the initial sale. And so there's very much a quality control built-in mechanism when it comes to accepting Bitcoin. And I think that plays into the premium. So to, I guess to compliment Don's comment, which is correct, is sure, you can go to the next merchant. But we may get to a place where the next merchant has an inferior product if they're accepting fiat at a stable price to what the Bitcoin denominated. price would be. So you may find like either paying Bitcoin or have a shitty product. I think that

might be where we're headed. Yeah. And I'd say your psychological reading is correct here because as I was saying earlier about coffees and Bitcoin, like I don't really care. But you're right. When it comes to handmade products or products that required some form of expertise or care or attention, for example, stakes, right? Like I'll always jump to onboard a rancher to take Bitcoin. That is always worth a transaction in my mind. Anyone who's doing, you know, because that's the world we want to see. We want less fewer financial engineers, less Wall Street, simplified ways of spending money so that if you do make soap or chairs or whatever it is, you're good at it. And you focus on being good at it because you don't have to think about running a business anymore. You know,

It's a little known weird fact in the United States, but you know the doctors have to have their own branch at a bank in the United States system because they're also small business owners, but they're terrible at it. I mean, they're really bad at it, right? They don't know what they're doing. Yeah, apparently, like, it's a known thing inside of U.S. banks that there's special people that deal with doctors because they're sure, they're smart. And finance is just an easy thing.

It's like, it's like less hard than doctoring, right? Sure. So, but they need a special group because they're financial illiterates. They don't know what's going on. They don't want to read a balance sheet. They don't know how to do any of that stuff because the system is too hard. Like I'm being sympathetic with them. They shouldn't need to know how to invest their balance sheet into high yield assets.

That's ridiculous, right? It's absurd. So I'm always for, you know, and I think you're right. People who are showing expertise, they're going to continue to get. Bitcoin is at a decent rate for the reasons that you're describing. Oh, wow. Okay. So, guys, I'm conscious of time.

I'm going to put a bow on this one because I need to keep us rolling. And I really got into some good ramble. And I was really enjoyed that. Okay. With that, that was awesome. Let's jump down to Mickey. I'm going to cue you up the same question. Why are you bullish?

Take it away, man. Yeah, real quick. I want to do a shout out to Dr. Nick. And I was wondering, can we get a fist? Can we get a fist shot for him? Everyone do the fist for Dr. Nick. So he gets a little pick. Yeah.

Fist for Dr. Nick. All right, cool. God, where are you talking about? I'm tossing you. The reason for being bullish, man. It's not yours. It's a restart. So, no, we just went so deep down that hole.

I know. I'm taking my way back out. Yeah, so it's kind of similar to Nolan, but I'm really bullish because nation states are sort of taking the mask off and exposing their true colors. But it's actually having some pretty positive impacts. So, you know, we all know about the China ban in, you know, what was it, 2021? I think, God, it's been so long. It feels like a decade. But I just read a report from Bloomberg this week that all these Chinese miners have moved into Ethiopia

and they're incentivizing energy development. And so Ethiopia's energy infrastructure, according to Bloomberg, may rival Texas in a few years in terms of energy and hash rate. That's pretty cool. At SAS mining, like a month ago, I had a guy from Europe reach out trying to buy like a million dollars or a million euros worth. of minors so he could stack KYC free corn because he doesn't like what's happening in Europe. I had a guy yesterday actually just reach out trying to build a fleet for SAS, trying to diversify jurisdictions because he's got a bunch of minors in Iowa and he doesn't like what's happening in the U.S. And so sort of at a surface level, the EIA, you know, them trying to crack down on the miners,

it's pretty transparently unconstitutional, I think. But it could actually lead to regulatory clarity, you know, sort of pointing to EPA versus West Virginia. EPA lost a Supreme Court case against West Virginia, which limited the EPA's power to regulate, you know, power plants and emissions. So does a big win, potentially similar logic with the EIA's attack against Bitcoin miners. And it could potentially answer some questions like, you know, are deep pocketed stakeholders like Arc or Sailor? Are they going to stand up and help fund these like court cases to defend Bitcoin?

You know, is is BlackRock going to sort of pile onto it and try to try to do a fork to like Bitcoin proof of stake? You know, I guess it's better to rip the Band-Aid off now than than in a couple years when Bitcoin get a you know 20 trillion dollar market cap which is a bearish prediction we all know yeah but it's like you know bitcoin miners capital bit it's like water you squeeze too hard it's just going to flow away and it's already starting to flow away from the united states there's there's a lot of people looking to to diversify jurisdiction and we're seeing it and it's just it's just strengthening the network. You just, you cut off one head. There's going to be 10 other ones

popping up all over the world. So, good luck. Yeah. It's, you're, you're right. There's, there's a lot of interesting things when it comes to, I mean, yeah, nation states kind of beginning to show their cards. And it's, and again, like in the U.S., it's very, there's, there's a diverse, you know,

there's there's variation in the viewpoints of how this stuff should be treated which is great like that's that's kind of how the the u.s was built in a way where state to state you know there's much more controlled and here in canada it's like federal government says jump and by and large the provinces say oh high uh not as much in Alberta anymore thank god but um either way in the states at least there's like some you know more checks and balances and there should be than we have here in Canada. But yeah, the minor stuff is very interesting. I will say hats off to Dennis Porter and Satoshi Action Fund for going around and systematically trying to pass favorable bills that will protect the rights of Bitcoiners and miners around

the country. I would love to see more of that at home. But you're right, Bitcoin is like water. going to flow wherever it's freest. And the fact that somebody that is based in the U.S. that has minors is actively looking at Peru, you said? Paraguay. Paraguay. Sorry. I was just, I had somebody on from Peru the other day. Paraguay. Yeah, that was Kent.

Yeah, right. Yes. So, but the fact that people in the U.S. are actively saying, I need to look at moving my hash elsewhere because it's so uncertain here. It is very telling of what will happen when it's certain that it's adversarial. As soon as it becomes an adversary, look at China. Again, like we have the playbook. We have this is what happens when you ban Bitcoin mining. Most of it, a lot of it flees, and then the rest of it stays underground and doesn't care. That's what happens.

The US situation, though, and I'd love an army person's thought on this, Mickey, so let me know if I'm crazy. But when I saw the Texas thing last week, now indeed, you know, a misconception the world might have about America is that the states are like a sub thing of the federal government. They're like the B team or something. We have that impression after World War II that they are just like a minor league situation, right? That the major leagues and the minor leagues. Nothing like that has ever been the case. they're supposed to be like independent countries. Before the Civil War, you know, the, when people talk all about the, you know, the 80-year history blocks, the fourth turning, you know, the fourth turning.

You know, the way they described America before the Civil War. The United States are after the Civil War. It was the United States is. After World War II, it became the Fed is, whether you meant the Fed Reserve or the federal government or whatever, right? So you completely changed how you described it. When I saw the Texas thing, Texas goes out and says, we're going to run the border, we're going to do this. But remember, Texas entered America as a country, and Texas still has rights to mint money. Right?

They have the right to mint money. They cannot mint money, which is fiat and fractional reserve divisible. Right? That's their only provision. So they have the right, the constitutional right, as not one of the 13 colonies or not part of territory expansion. formula as a country to mint money. And when you start to see what's going on at the border, and then you think about Texas's grid, the most sophisticated in America with its own problems, right, with its own problems,

but nevertheless, the most energy literate people in America now, the Texans are because of this grid, because they've already absorbed so much of the Bitcoin mining, because they have the Texas wind at night and they've sort of understood what's going on. There's no scenario ever where the current climate. that we have in the United States, that the federal government could enter Texas and tell them what's up with their energy, with what's going on. And if this continues, right, if Texas needs to de-risk itself further from Washington, D.C., remember, the only thing that gets left with the Federal Reserve and their stupid shit coin, the U.S. trash token, all that's left is the Federal Reserve

has it. The states aren't liable for that holding that bag. That's not their debt. They don't have that debt. These are two legal separate different things. You can shut down USA Inc. in Washington, D.C., and Texas wouldn't have to do anything about it, right? So Texas now, understanding its sovereignty and its border, understanding what it is, can actually mint money and back it. And they can back it. This is the important part. They can back their money with their electrical grid if they use Bitcoin. They can literally mint a currency out of their energy. Not so different than the volcano bond, actually. And remember, Texas and El Salvador have diplomatic relations around Bitcoin already.

What do you think the diplomatic relations are about? It's about volcano bonds and things like that. So if Texas issues a type of energy bond with Bitcoin in the mix, they can mint money, and then they don't have to care about Washington. So there's never going to be a civil war in America because America already has this amazing thing where you just move neighborhoods. You just move to another state. There's 50 of them.

For God's sakes, there's enough choice. You don't need a new country. The point of 50 states is you could just find another recipe, find somewhere else you like. Now the states that are stupid are going to have to learn and the states that are like, regulate me harder are just going to continue to suffer. But I think they'll learn too. So as an army man, I heard a lot of army people were thinking about what was going on in

Texas and what was happening and all of this. But look, there was never. going to be any fighting. I didn't believe they were ever, they're never going to fight, right? That's not going to happen. It's just never going to happen. The federal, it's, you know, it is politics, but Texas is waking up. And the more, you know, and I'm a Quebecer, right? And I know if Texas does this, guess what we're doing. Guess what Quebec's doing the next day. Guess what Alberta does the next day, right? They're not, they're issuing money. They're just issuing money and they're done, right? We need, what we do need is we need to,

In Alberta, I do see a little bit of sovereign individual thesis playing out here in Alberta. Like we're starting to push back on a lot of the federal regulations in and around energy, in and around. Like, it's just everything that's being pushed top down, it's really difficult to even try to comply with it because we're, your new governor, smart. Oh, yeah. Premier we call her. Yeah. She, I mean, we get, we just had a stretch of a couple weeks where at times it was minus 40, minus 50. We can't, we can't rely on solar when we don't see the sun. Solar. Like we can't.

Shocker. And at the same time, our like our fossil fuels, our natural gas, all that stuff. There's just, there's so many roadblocks that are put up in front of us. to even begin to again I like what the road that Daniel Smith is going down

in particular I know she gets Bitcoin she's been to visit upstream data and Steve Barber she knows what's going on she knows that the energy grid can be stabilized and normalized by supplementing in Bitcoin mine like she's

she's been into Bitcoin since 2016 I think she knows what's up. So like, I think we're going to see some fragmenting there. Nikki, you're right. Sovereign individual thesis playing out and it's coming. So I don't know. I do want to get Kendall's thoughts on some of the stuff that's been said here as well.

Yeah. I mean, I, so I was at the Energy and Mining Summit at Bitcoin Park a couple weeks ago. And they had someone from, was it, TBC there? and, you know, it's a lot harder for them to get than we think. I feel like the way I saw it was, you know, like we're so ingrained and it's so easy for us to understand. But in terms of, you know, talking to politicians and energy markets, it's like, it's, we're just not there.

It needs to be kind of like dung down and explained. more simply, they're not grasping like the great effects that that mining can have on these grades, even when it's happening, right? Like even with all, with a huge cold front and everybody, you know, reeling back on mining, what was it, like 25 percent. And the impact that that made, it's still such a hard thing for, you know, for these grids to understand. So I think, so like one of the things I would love to do is just have, you know, a more, kind of like, I hate saying dumbed down, but just a simpler way of explaining the impact because we're so deep into it, the way that we talk is, is like another.

other level. But if we can kind of just like scale it back a little bit and put put the information out there in a real simple way, I think it'll make a more more of an impact where like we want to go into like the technical part like right away and all and all of these things because that's what that's what we know. And I, I believe, and from what I've heard is is the way to make the best impact is just making it like like the fifth grader, you know, education level. Yeah, explain like I'm five how energy grid works. Yeah, because we jump into it so deep. And you're like, like we're so passionate about it, but that doesn't really like soak into someone who doesn't know anything.

And I'm in New York, right? Like we're in a really, I'm in a tough area. And, you know, speaking to politicians here, I'm in the capital region. It's like I have to, you have to just like be super, super super super, simple about it. And I mean, we've had, you know, we've had mining banned here in a couple of areas. And there's no need for it. And trying to get them to understand, you know, how beneficial mining can be.

It's, you know, it's a different way of communicating, I think, than like, you know, we do on a daily basis. Yeah. It is, it is ironic that New York State of all. places like that's that somebody could look at you know a like a bitcoin miner and be like that's bad and then stand in time square and be like it's all good oh yeah like they're they're just like openly selling you like cocaine on the streets in front of like a police officer but like you know the bitcoin minor that's you know yeah like helping the energy grid or contributing you know it's bad that's bad that's bad

Right. Like what? Like this is like the, I don't smash your head kind of like case. And that's like how we get so passionate, right? There's a disconnect. The craziness of it. Yeah. New York's a shit show, but. And then I'm like, oh my God, I think about like what you guys are saying about the pick up and leave part. I'm like, well, I, you know, in my case, I can't. Right. I have a family here. I can't pick up and leave. I would. And I think, you know, that's also the case for a lot of people. You can't just like always pick up and pop, you know, to other states. And there's something to be said for fighting for a standard of living of where you are.

And that's that, again, to throw a hat tip to Maidex. People are always like, why are you still in Canada? And he's like, well, because I fucking love it here. And I'm not just going to, I'm not just going to leave without a fight. So here I am. Yeah. And you don't want to leave. Like, I mean, I have family.

here and friends and you don't want to you don't want to just pick up and abandon them but you want you do you want to fight and like make a better place for the people that are around you and like where you know and what you care about like my business is here and there's a lot and so I would rather you know help educate however that looks you know I'm trying but um instead of like uping and leave up and leaving yeah yeah um all right well mickey i'm gonna i'm gonna put a ball on this one as well uh love it we're gonna do a rotation i want to toss it down the line one more time and kendall it's uh we're just gonna continue with you we're gonna we're gonna here i'm gonna cue you up with the same question why are you bullish well it's funny because i think like um what micky said kind of ties into

why I'm bullish. I'm super bullish about, you know, home mining and all of the like absolutely amazing people out there building some great stuff to make this easier to help with decentralization. And there are some freaking awesome products out there now, right? Like I started with S-9s and I'm just going to say like for me, it wasn't the easiest is to like set up and it's super fun that I have it now but of course like it you know not everyone's going to do that because it's a little bit of a challenge but then you have companies like bidax

and um they and I saw Scott on here before and he just released like a bit act the bidex supra and um these are like plug in play right home mining devices that are so simple they can be you know, anywhere. And the Apollo, um, uh, that's, you know, that's like an awesome product as well. And these are things that are just making, you know, making it so much easier for people to mine at home, um, you know, just be part of the network. You can do, uh, you can run your own, like, solo mining pool. Um, there, you know, there's just like so, so much out there. And, um, so, so I'm super bullish for that. I just, I think like everyone should have a minor in their home. I love like the idea of like a million, you know, like a million minors everywhere. And now these crazy smart people are

really like breaking apart. They're like, you know, the S-21s come out. They're like literally like breaking them apart and figuring out, you know, how to make another product out of it. And, you know, they're not wasting energy. They're not they, it's just like an awesome. Yeah, Scott said, be ungovernable, mine at home. Yeah, 100% to that. And it's like a huge, you know, it's a huge realization, I think. And so I'm super bullish about that.

I love that. I, I, um, I just entered a group on, telegram called Loki Plex and they are kind of doing what you're describing as well they're like the you know the more efficient miners will like

break them down like tear out the hashboards and like create mini like home heating systems out of them that are more efficient like I've got I've got like the S9 you know space heater yeah that's what I have to yeah like I've got that sitting behind me in my office like

winter's a tough and like even even if i'm getting just like a hilariously small amount of sats it still makes me feel better than like directly paying for heat and not getting any sets and so it's more like an ideological thing but like the idea of being able to break down the most efficient miners and then and then use those hashboards and use that to to still efficiently heat your your your spaces i think that's amazing by my wife when we went down to miami uh this past year she was she was enthralled by the minor heated hot tub and she is like yes yes and she's like we we need that we are doing that and so i've got i've got like an m30 plus sitting over here um there's there's a dude who's basically like a magician in Calgary here who does all kinds of crazy

experiments. I think we're going to do, I think we're going to do like a hot tub back that's heated by, by my minor. There's another one called Nakamoto Heating, something like that. I think they're the guys that were in Miami, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think we're looking at doing that. And I couldn't believe that like a single, like an F-19 would like boil a water. I didn't realize like how intense those things can be. So, um, yeah, it's, uh, home. So I just, sorry, I'm going to like jump in on this for a second, too, because, um, with, you know, like with what you're talking about, like with S9 and heating and everything, like, that's intimidating, right? To some people, they're, um, not open to mining because of the, of how expensive the energy cost will be and you know it's hard and like so part of what i'm saying with

why i'm bullish on on home mining is you know some of these other products too like like the bit acts is like this tiny little thing that like you plug and it goes it doesn't produce you know heat it's not it's i don't even know um uh the electric i think it's like it's it consumes like a small amount electricity and the Apollo too, like you can run a node and then you have this like little tiny cute thing like sitting next to your, you know, on your desk that that doesn't make any noise and you're mining and you're contributing. So I think like there's this whole span of things, right? You can do more complicated ways of, I mean, you can literally heat your house and your entire hot water system using miners. But

I don't want that to be a barrier. You know, I don't want people to be, you know, I don't want them to think, like, that's, that's too hard for me. I'm not going to do it. Like, there are some great, like, other ways. Yeah, 15 watts. Thanks, Scott. 15 months about the same as a cell phone charger, right?

Like, it's, you know, there are, there are just like easier ways to mine. And, holy shit. I just went on the future. Right. like so fucking cool right well they're all sold out too i just look at the apollo too like the new one yeah yeah like every like all three versions of it are sold out they still have i think you can get the the other version but like good for them that's awesome yeah and go on bidax too um and both of them you know I mean, John and Scott are incredibly intelligent individuals.

And they're kind of doing, you know, a little bit of a different thing with home mining. But they're making it so that it can be available in every single household. And super freaking smart and like, you know, kind of tearing apart these miners and deconstructing them and like making, you know, making equipment that we can use every day that that's not, you know. Like I love my S-9s. Like they're super cool, but, you know, it was hard. Yes, yeah, there's the Apollo. Yeah. And it's quiet.

I mean, you can run a note on it. Is that the Apollo, too, or the which ones? I think that. That might be the Apollo, too. Yeah, so that's our newer one. And yeah, there you go. And go to down to Scott. I'm going to like beat you for this website.

That's okay. I can't even see it. Ben X legit. Yes. Go to Bit X legit. There you go. And just open like one of the sites. Yeah.

But there's like, yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're tiny, you know? And it's. And it, you know, it's quiet. Yes. Yeah, that's what it looks like. And so it's, you know, it's super cool like what these guys are doing.

I'm like so freaking smart. That's really cool. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Again, the idea of, you know, one person running this doesn't make an impact, but a million people running this. Yes, yes. And so, like, again, that ethos of like, let's get the people that are passionate to just have stuff like this running all the time.

And just, again, it's kind of like, you know, on. on this type of scale, like you're not going to be making stats back, but you can kind of think of it as maybe if you're a person who likes to buy lottery tickets, stop doing that, buy one of these and you have a forever lottery ticket. And one of these days, you might not have the jackpot, but you might. And like mining a block solo yourself with a bitax would be. Right. Marius.

I mean, you could just get like, as someone, was saying the other day, like, just get them and like plug them in in the most random places, like a janitor's closet at a school. And it was kind of funny. It's like you can literally do that. It's not going to affect, you know, the energy usage because that's, I think it's a little difficult with, you know, obviously, you know, an S-9 like space heater. Like someone might know, but some of these other, you can just plug them in anywhere. I mean, you've seen people like they do on airplanes. Like someone posted they, they're on the airplane.

They had it plugged in and they have like in hotels, you know, that's like called hotel hashing. Like there's all these like fun, fun things and like ways that people are, you know, 2 million bit X running solo. One person would solve a block every four days on average. Ah, that's a good one, Scott. That's pretty good odds, to be honest.

Yeah, yeah, right? Like if you, I mean, if, you know, if everyone's like involved that that's going to make a difference you know and then we do we like i'm a huge advocate of you know i have like a lot of individuals that i care about that are in the mining industry but it is very centralized um and there you know it like it it does produce risk so if we can kind of you know help spread that out decentralize it there are so many ways and just like really smart people working on it. Your hotel hashing thing makes me want to bring up, frigging, like,

air-hashing, hotel-hashing, like, just like... See how long you run it, plugging in some insane, like, even just an S-9, just, like, plugging in in the room and see how long before there's a knock at the door. Excuse me, sir. Are you consuming massive amounts of power with a jet engine in the room? Can I bother you for a fact of it? Yeah, I think that'd be a hilarious.

No, but yes. On a smaller scale, yes. Yeah, that's amazing. I want to get the takes. Maybe I'll toss to Mickey first. How, like, do you have a take on, you know, the state of mining? Have you ever dabbled in anything in relation to that? Where are you at?

Yeah, just, I think it's funny because one of the first articles I wrote for Bitcoin Mag was along the line. of Bitcoin mining doesn't have to be profitable. And it went, it went viral on Twitter before I even had an account. Just people just hating on it, man. It was hilarious. But it's like, it was the same argument where it's like, okay, it's useful for other things as well. So like balancing the grid, you know, it's like if you're wasting the energy, then, you know,

maybe you just, you use it as like a balancing tool or something. But then I also talked about the heat. So like if you have anything that produces heat and you're not hashing, like you're wasting electricity, right? And so as long as like this Bitcoin heating application uses, you know, the same amount of electricity as like my normal water heater or my toaster or whatever. And it's producing like the same amount of heat. I'm getting a little bit of stats back or I could do like solo lottery mining too. but I mean if you're not if you're just using like you know iron coils to to heat whatever versus like hashing chips to to do computations like you're losing money and I think the incentives

are just going to play out you know maybe and it's going to take a while probably but let's say like 30 years maybe the standard water heaters are all are all just like asic chips instead of gas or you know whatever, but if, I mean, if that happens, like, you know, large-scale miners, it doesn't matter because everybody's got A6 and their water heaters and they're just hashing. Yeah. There's so, so many uses. Like, it's unbelievable. Yeah.

Hach toaster. Yeah. All of it, right? Like, my blogging maker, like, anything. And you got to believe that the infrastructure will be built out to a point where your average mining pool will be able to pay out via lightning or liquor. or fetamance or whatever, like, you know, pick your flavor. And so, like, there'll be a degree of the tiniest of payouts are entirely possible anywhere

for your little bidax that you've plugged into a hotel electric razor socket. You know, like, it could be making sats everywhere. So, or milliseconds, perhaps, by that time. But we'll see. But either way, like, I think there's a place for this and there's a point where, again, great point, Mickey. If you need heat and you're not obtaining that heat while simultaneously hashing, you are wasteful. And people may be, do we get to the point where people who aren't doing both are looked down upon? Like, is that the new ecological shaming that we see nowadays?

Like, instead of like, oh, do you know, do you use plastic straw? It'll be like, excuse me, are you, do you have a water heater that is not hashing? You are a disgrace. It'll be like watching the Kardashians. That's the most wasteful thing of all. Yes. No one, I want your thoughts here. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I love that image of the toasters,

but I think I have a theory about how it actually will happen and can happen because I've been thinking about it for a while. So, you know, even that thing with Putin in the history yesterday, you know, he looked kind of coherent and smart because you compare him to like Biden, you know, so then it's like, well, he sounds so smart. But if it was, for say, for example, RFK, you know, I don't think Putin would have sounded so clever if we were, we'd be used to hearing RFK every day. And I have learned a lot from RFK. And one of the things I've learned that had no idea about before, I've listened to a lot

of his interviews. Since we had him at Bitcoin, 23, I've, you know, even before I was a fan, but throughout it all. But one of the things he described is that, you know, he talks about decentralizing the grid, sure. But the, let's say more, the higher priority policy objective that he talks about a lot is to decentralize farming, right? That, of course, industrial level farming in America is as corrupt, maybe, as the banks. I mean, it's as big of a problem, like America's pretty sick. The food supply is tainted. We got a problem, right?

We got a major problem. And industrial farming is part of it. Now we talked earlier about artisans and people who make chairs or so, you know, becoming the highest paid people again and not financial. engineers. Well, before there was Fiat, ranchers were the highest paid people. That's why I don't ever mind giving, I want, I'm helping contribute to inflation and steak and beef and everything, because they must be rewarded for their work. And the business model of industrial farming is what I, I understand why someone would want to be a vegetarian. I mean, I totally get it because it's so sick.

It's so evil and wrong to treat animals that way. So I love. where I live in Vermont or where I live in the winter, you know, I've got beautiful farms. I go to my little rancher and I get my steak right off them. Now, Vermont is one of these weird places where we never industrialized our farming. It wasn't good enough to industrialize. The land wasn't flat. It's all these little valleys and you can't really set up the big, you know, type of Midwestern farm apparatus there.

So it's absolutely not profitable farming. But weirdly, because it wasn't profitable, whatever is left is actually the best heirloom farming left in America because it's just what it's left. It's just the people who were too poor to keep it going. They had to keep it the way it was on the old day. And so now we have this thing. Now we've lost farmland and everything. But nevertheless, I think you're going to see a push along the lines of what RFK is talking

about to. revitalize our food system. And I think decentralizing the grid comes with it. So imagine a world where the best and brightest aren't going to Wall Street anymore because the best paying jobs aren't there. They're actually on the farm again. And if you have a bunch of these clever people on the farm again, there's going to be no choice but for them to have their own energy system, it can't be connected to the centralized grid. They're going to have to run their own energy capacity at the farm. And the farm won't be connected to that. And if they're not running a miner, within that electrical grid that will help sustain the farm itself and the decentralized grid,

they're going to be mocked exactly like what you're saying. It's going to be like, you see that dumb farmer down the road? Did you see him? They're going to treat them like Amish people or something. You know what I mean? He doesn't even have an Aizik. What's he going to do? Ride his horse to the market in a week?

It's going to be that. So it's going to be great. He must have a solar panel or something. They're going to need the solar panels. They're going to have all that. I mean, I'm not, I think, you know, I believe decentralizing the grid is going to happen along those lines. Yeah.

It's not going to be necessarily toasters, I guess is what I'm getting at. It's not going to be, remember 21 or whatever they were called, there was toasters, Bitcoin mining toasters. Was that actually a thing? Yeah, Bellagie had that in 2016. Oh, I love Belaji, but he was into Bitcoin mining toasters for a little while, guys. You what? I had one of them.

It was like a, it was like a, um, What are they called? Raspberry pies, right? It was just... Yeah, yeah. It was just... Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, look, I think there's a big change to the business model in farming in America.

And with that change of business model comes a reassessment of grid stability, grid reliability. I know RFK has spoken about both. He's not the only one. I think this is starting to gather steam. I think we're understanding a lot more about the vulnerabilities that a centralized grid system has and I think there's going to be incentives that are more intelligent than the stupid wind ones that we've been living through that will really focus on you know individuals who run businesses out of their houses or or little operations out of their houses it's sort of

a going back to manufacturing type of thing too so it's not just farming I don't want to go so far as to say it's only farming I could see a lot of these Amazon fulfillment centers using 3d printers and and things that are a little more decentralized also engaging in this stuff. So it's not, I don't think I want to limit it just to decentralizing the grid around farming. But I can see both of these things working in parallel and both of these things are going to be huge. You know, farming is like, like I said, it should be more important than Wall Street. It should be more important than Wall Street. We should have titans of farming throughout the continent.

And, you know, that remains our advantage too as we go into whatever's happening in the world right now. Remember, people who say, oh, we don't make anything in America. Where do they get the pork belly from in China? It ain't from China. It's not there, right? They get it from here because we make so much good food and we continue to dominate in that. So we just got to do it better. And like all things, you know, I really do see Bitcoin going through Wall Street first as it has and as it continues to do.

Energy is next. And it's going to push from energy into these other. fields like farming and it's going to completely change it. Interesting. I love it. Well, that's fantastic. I think I've got one of the Apollos potentially coming my way to test and maybe make a video. So if that happens, then yes, I will be doing a, you know, a tutorial on that.

I should probably peek at getting myself a bit axe as well. I was going to say like, yes. Yeah, yeah. And then again, these guys in the Loki Plex telegram group, which, again, to, I guess, re-highlight Mickey's point, who I've apparently, now that I'm looking on telegram, have ghosted the fuck out of, because I'm so good at DMs. I mean, you just leave everyone on unread, so it's not like you're reading and not responding. Yeah. We all know the game. I need an assistant. But nonetheless, but yeah, so lots of cool things to touch on in the home mining space.

And I think that's just kind of getting started. Like it's so early days in that. And there's going to be a lot of really cool things that people come up with just in around, again, the basic uses of anything that requires heat. It's just going to be a no-brainer. Like, why not have, you know, heat that is also. paying you back. Of course. So either way, we'll put a ball on this. Thank you for that. That segue or that little rabbit hole to go down as well. But the way I like to finish out these shows is I like to finish with a quick round of any final thoughts, anything that you want to sum up from the episode that you thought was cool, that you wanted to put a ball on yourself. And also, if you have a recommendation, if you have, and this could take many forms,

it could be as simple as just like a piece of life advice that you wish you would have known when you got into Bitcoin. Or it could be, you know, go read this book. It was great. Or watch this video or try out this app or this device. Whatever comes to mind that you think is useful. I'll kind of start us off. And then you guys can kind of stew on that for sec before I get to you.

I think my takeaway from this episode, the thing that I was kind of drawn to is the idea that it's very clear that everybody is seeing the cracks in the existing system. But it's not clear that they've honed in on what the underlying ailment is. I think they will get there. And I think that they may not even need to fully understand what the ailment is they just need to know that it's broken. And they need to know that there's something better. I think we're on the way there. It's very clear that a lot of people understand that something's broken. They just haven't, they haven't yet had the time to understand that there's something better and it's available to them right now.

Because it's still very early. And let's be honest, it's still, we're still building. Like half the conversation was about us still building it out and what a pain in the ass navigating that is. So, you know, as as our system becomes more built out and reliable and less uncertain, the other system is going to continue to spiral out of control. And it's going to become more and more evident how broken the old system is. It's going to become more and more evident how much stronger and more reliable the new system is. And those things are going to, you know, at one point it's going to, you know, reach an equilibrium. And then it's just going to start going the opposite ways.

And at that point, I think that's that S curve is when the old system is so broken that it's more broken than us trying to build an entirely new one. And that's, I don't think it's far off. So that was my main takeaway from today. My recommendation, I just finished, and I got it, it's on my other bookshelf. I just finished Lynn Alden's book. You know, it's a big one, but it's so well written. I really enjoyed it.

So Lynn Alden's broken money, not that it needs a plug. It's definitely done the rounds, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. And it does such a good job of kind of going through. again, the existing system, how it's broken and how it might be improved by this new one. But it's not done in the style of at least the first half of the book, first three quarters of the book, is not done in the style of here's the solution shoved in your face. It very articulately outlines so many of the problems with what we're currently dealing with. And then it slaps you with Bitcoin at the end.

like for and and very very descriptively and very in depth slaps you with well here here's all of the possible questions you could have about this system here's all the problems that could arise but why those problems may not be as bad as one might think um so yeah anyways broken money lynn alden i think it was great uh nolan i'll toss it to you final thoughts recommendations I'm going to, you know, I'll echo what you're saying. It feels like the cracks are becoming obvious. I'll say, and I guess this is, I got two recommendations. My first is that the, you know, we're learning, for example, with Bitcoin, that news is fake, right?

That helped us learn that the news was really just theater and all that stuff. But it's actually a bit weirder than that. History is much faker than news, right? Like we don't understand anything. Like we don't understand World War I. It's not just that we don't understand now, it goes much further back. So that's what gets me so excited about that Bitcoin Atlantis show. I think the Bitcoins are going to get to the heart of Atlantis.

We're actually going to solve that, right? And so that's going to be great, right? So that's going to be fun. So Bitcoin Atlantis has me excited a lot of people talking about it. I'm not going. I'm a little too far and in a different direction. But I will make another plug. So I'm going to watch a show tonight about Atlantis or something.

It's one of my great joys in life, Atlantis type stories. But I'll make a recommendation. I wrote a book before the holidays called a Bitcoins guide to NPC management. And it's really about, I think it's the best orange-pilling book ever written. It's no arguments. There's zero arguments in there. It's all just reframes to increase your freedom of speech when surrounded by NPCs. It gives a strategy on how to encounter and deal with them in life.

You can identify them. You can actually use Bitcoin as an organizing principle. If someone has no Bitcoin origin like first contact story, automatic NPC, automatic NPC, right? If they do have one. you can actually use, you know, go to this, there's a part called the mirror of disbelief in it, right, where you can get a sense of, from the website. Yeah, you'd have to, that's a different book. Oh, okay, okay. So, pick on the, on Bitcoiners guide, though. Yeah, you'll, you'll get the,

or flip the pages. Can I flip the pages here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you go to next, yeah, yeah, you'll get them here. Okay. It actually presents an idea of not arguing. It's a counterspell, and you can use, use different incantations to fight against the dark magic and hypnotic powers of Fiat. And I mean it sincerely, I believe it's the only way to actually fight Fiat. I do believe they've conjured a type of dark magic and you can use Bitcoin to counter it. So that's this is the basic part of the protocol, right? You can identify them. Then you can specify the NPC type by their first contact with Bitcoin. So credentialists, basically fears and wants will identify it for you, right? They'll give themselves away by their reaction to it.

It's called first contact lore. And then from there, you can target a reawakening spell. They don't always work, but, you know, there's some efficiency to it. But it really works. I have testimonials people saying it works. They can go to the holidays and be around their normy friends, and it sort of goes fine. Yeah, try the definition of NPC gives you a bit of a sense, but, you know, the one with the guy eating the bugs, GMO bugs, and they look delicious. Oh, no. Yeah. I'm trying to find out. Oh, my God.

Okay, well, this is what I'm doing with the resume. I won't. It's a pretty fun book. Yeah, it's a pretty fun book. Yeah. And so I think it's easier now to identify these people. and Bitcoin really does give us a one-stop shop to identify, specify who they are, and maybe wake them up. But at least you're going to be safe and you're going to be in a clear distance from them.

And they won't affect your quality of life too much or your freedom of speech. This is amazing. I'm, I've got, I've got my reading for this. It's going to just, like, how am I going to put the fireplace on? I'm going to, I'm going to get. It's a good book. Get some tea and snuggle up with a Bitcoiner's guide to NBC management. Yeah, it's a good protocol.

I love it. Awesome. Okay, well, if you're not by the fireplace with a nice tea reading this book tonight, I don't know what better plans you might have, but there you go. Okay. With that, I'll toss it to Mickey. Final thoughts, recommendations, man. All you.

Yeah, I'm like thinking about that question, how often do you think about the Roman Empire? And as society sort of collapses around us, I just think it's nice to have the Bitcoin community where we can come together. And like, you know, most of us haven't met before and just sort of chat like old friends. So like, I don't know, you saw this. You see like the dudes fist pumping in the chat. So those are all the, well, not all of them, but they're. their guys in the Bitcoin Veterans Group. So I just wanted to put out, like, if you're a veteran or a veteran adjacent,

there's like a Bitcoin Veterans Group. So I'm wearing their hat. They have huge discounts on like the halving party, Bit Block Boom, Nashville, 2024. They're doing cool stuff. Like there's a ham radio exam that they set up for the Bitcoin conference. in Nashville. Yeah, so I just wanted to put that out. And then I guess recommendations is, so one of the guys set up a nonprofit.

And so it's a veteran-owned nonprofit, and it provides education to veterans. It helps, you know, sort of get them into the Bitcoin industry, and that's called Operation Bitcoin ran by Gabe Lord. And then if I could give one more recommendation, is sort of opening the old wound on the battle between cast iron and stainless steel, is that both sides are wrong, and carbon steel is the way to go. Okay. I mean, what do I say to?

Cast iron advocates in dismay. saving broken yeah well that's I mean I'm going to have to get myself one of those where can I find the finest pan my friend tell me I'll send it to in your DMs

it's like a secret society kind of thing no it's not Amazon we need a Bitcoiner to create and market these I think Fantastic. Awesome. All right. Well, lesson learned. I'll want both of me. Kendall, I'm going to toss to you. Final thoughts, recommendations. Take it away.

Okay. Final thoughts. You know, I just, I do love being a part of this space. And I know, like, this group is new to me. And kind of like what Mickey said, like, we're all, you know, working toward this common goal. And being educated in these different areas, I've learned a lot. And there's just a lot of like screwed up, you know, screwed up areas in the world. And we each kind of like take, we have an interest in, you know, in a certain place and educating on how Bitcoin can make an impact there, whether it's like in politics or in, you know, just in, you know, on like the retail. merchant side or in our daily lives. So I've appreciated, just really appreciated being here and learning from you guys and, you know, and happy to be a part of making the world a better place with amazing money.

Awesome. However I can. And in terms of education, yeah, education, I mean, my recommendation is always in-person events. I, you know, I started a meetup group in upstate New York because I didn't know anyone to, I didn't have anyone to talk to about Bitcoin. And now I have like, I mean, first off, some of like my closest friends, but also people that are way, you know, smarter than me. And they're there for, you know, anything that I need in the Bitcoin space and outside of the Bitcoin space. And I've also connected with, I mean, people from all over the country

other made-up groups. I mean, we had a, like, a regional event where we had, um, uh, New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut. Maybe I'm sure, like, we just had like a little get together. No Vermont. No, Vermont. We're out. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I will, I'll, I'll like get you. Yes.

Yes. Um, but, you know, that's just, it's a different vibe, right? when you're talking one-on-one in person with someone. We can talk through like our differences. We can help each other through like just something simple as like, I don't know how to like, how do I get a fatter channel on Phoenix? You know, like just something simple and something like complicated. Can you help me set up a node?

Anything like that. And I just, you know, I love the in-person experience. And I think that's just so important. And, you know, reach out, just get. give it a try, go to a local meetup, start a local meetup, attend an event, like Ben, what you're doing with the market is so freaking amazing. So that kind of stuff is really integral to like what we're doing and it'll scale, I think, pretty big that way.

Awesome. I love it. Yeah, in person is the way to go. They want you in your pods. Don't stay in your pods. go create in-person relationship that's that's kind of the truck of humanity like if if you're a bitconer and you get bitcoin but you're just sitting on the internet all day you're not you're you're getting a fraction of the value um the value is in building um meaningful relationships with the people

around you and um yeah you know sound money that actually reflects your values as part of it but an extension of that and the most important extension of that is the relationships that you form. So go and build those first. Yeah, because you're, I mean, you're going to find that the people that you're connecting with are so like you. And I think that like people are a little bit scared of that. But then when you meet in person, you're like, okay, these are my people. Like, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've been producing the events for years now. And people will ask me, you know, how big can they get? that, well, I always say, look, we're literally taking over for university. They can't keep up with this. They're nowhere near the level of information. And that's kind of what we try to program, you know, an entire sort of college experience, but in three days with all the same experiences,

with all the same things that happen to you, socializing, learning, going through all these things. And I think we achieve it. When I say that to people who have been to the events that I've produced, they'll go, oh yeah, you're right. That's what it felt like. You know, it really was that. So I love it. Well, I will, I guess, round this out and just say, uh, this was a great evening. I really enjoyed the chat. I thought it was a lot of fun.

So again, Kendall, thank you for joining first time through, not the last, clearly. Thanks for having. Thank you for being here. So, thank you guys for spending time on a Friday evening to get bullish with me. and you're all welcome back anytime. It's been. See you guys later. Have a good one.

All right. And everybody, stick around as we round up. First of all, before we say goodbye, I'm not supposed to leak this information here, but I got a secret DM and these pans, they're real. And you can find them on Amazon, these carbon steel pans. So you're getting in the inside track here. from Mickey. Don't let him know that I shared this with you. This is a very exclusive marketplace.

It's called Amazon. Not a lot of people know about it, but us inside Bitcoiners do, I suppose. But nonetheless, we're going to wrap it out. Guys, thank you so much for joining in. Everybody in the chat, you're awesome. I love seeing the fists up. I love seeing all the comments. So thank you. Keep coming back every week. If you can do me a solid, please do. If you haven't already smashed that like button, turn your fist into a thumbs up and smash that like button. It really does help a lot. Share this on whatever socials you're on. It really also does help get this in front of more eyeballs.

And if you want to do a major solid, hit that subscribe button. If you have not already, I'm on the warpath to 100K in 2024. We're just rounding the corner of 89. I think we can make it. But outside of that, you can hit up the previously mentioned sponsors in the show notes down below. Again, you guys know who they are, but you can find them down there. And then finally, there's a QR code on the screen. If you're sorting through the hundreds of hours of free tutorial content, and maybe it's just not cutting it, there's some gaps in the knowledge, and you need a one-on-one touch.

You can reach out to me at my website. Scanning that QR code will take you to a place where you can book me for one-on-one online education sessions. If you're listening on the pod afterwards, it's just BTCSessions.ca. And with that, I am out. Have yourselves a wonderful day or evening, wherever you may be. See you guys next time for your daily session.