Club Shay Shay - Nightcap - Hour 1: Steelers impressive, Anthony Richardson’s future, McCarthy calls out Diggs

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

Shannon Sharpe and Chad “Ochocinco” Johnson react to Russell Wilson and the Pittsburgh Steelers win over Daniel Jones the New York Giants on Monday Night Football and move to 6-2 atop the AFC North. Later, Unc and Ocho react to Indianapolis Colts QB Anthony Richardson saying he sat out of a play because he was “tired” and worry for the young QB’s future and confidence if he loses his starting spot, Dallas Cowboys HC Mike McCarthy telling Trevon Diggs he needs to “stay on the high road” after confrontation with the media and much more!03:17 - Show start03:37 - Intro05:16 - Giants lose to Steelers20:26 - Colts QB change30:05 - McCarthy/Diggs44:40 - Sean Payton48:00 - Hasson Reddick50:00 - Artist of D-Wade’s statue57:30 - LeBron extends scoring streak01:00:00 - Dodgers beat Yankees(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements.)#Volume #ClubSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liars Poker. On the latest season of my podcast, Against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states, and ourselves. Join me and listen to Against the Rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Against the Rules. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeart radio app, Appleuddy, taking it to the house, reservations for six, whatever you call a touchdown, one thing's for sure, touchdowns matter more at at Draft King Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NFL. On the ground, in the air, from the special teams

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gaming resources. Hello ladies and gentlemen, and thank you for joining us after you watch the Pittsburgh Steelers take down the New York football Giants by the score of 26 to 18, run their record to 6 and 2 and stand alone on top of the AOC North. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Nightcap. I'm your favorite uncle, Shannon Sharp. He is Liberty City's own, bingo ring of fame honoree, the pro bowler, the all-pro, the legendary, Chad Ocho Cinco Johnson. Just call him Ocho. Ocho. Please make sure you hit that

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Benny Bishop Jr. Seals the game with a game ending interception. He had two last week against the Jets. He had another one tonight. And it was a huge win against the Giants because they moved to six and two and are comfortable atop the AFC North. Considering the Ravens lost yesterday,

the Cincinnati Bengals are in a tailspin. And the Cleveland finally got one again, but they've been hovering around bad to worse. Yeah. As you can see our graphics, Ocho, we got graphics. Now bro, check that out. Let me see, where we at? Can you see it on the board?

No, no, no, where is that, where is that? Let me see, let me see, let me see. You got 26, 18, the final. You got pass yards, 259 to 237 rush yards, 167 to 157 touchdowns. One with an asterisk because they threw one touchdown and the other touchdown came via punt return, uh, 426 total yards for the Steelers, 394 for the Giants. I thought the Giants played real. They ran the football. I thought Daniel Jones was throwing the ball well,

but somehow that injury bug late in the ball game, excuse me, that turnover bug rears its head and it bites him at the most inopportune of times. Because I thought up until that point, he was 24-35, 264. Tracy ran the ball extremely well, 20 carries, a buck 45. They had 25 rushes, 157 yards in a touchdown. Darius Slayton, four catches for a buck 08. Neighbors, seven for 71. So they were moving the ball, and I would like to see if they could have done something, but he got a little pressure,

floated the ball over the running backs head, and it ended in an interception. Great job by Benny Bishop Jr. to seal that with an INT, but he's gotta get over that hump. That's the only thing that's really, you know. It's hard to say what a player quarterback can or couldn't be when he's known to turn the football over because he puts his teams in harm's way.

Oh, Joe, and all turnovers aren't created equal. Equal, yeah. That late in the ballgame, you're doomed. You turn the ball over in the first quarter, youcho, you got a chance to overcome it, but not at that point. Yeah. Listen, you talk about turning the ball over, it interrupts the team, you know, and you doom turn him turn the ball over. That's what gets the coach fired.

Yep. Hey, I don't even know if Brian Deball is on the hot seat, but the way Dane Jones is playing, you know, who won't take, who won't take the issue for that. Yeah, he is. Everybody's going to get fired. Everybody's going to get fired. Before I even talk about the game in general, I just want to salute the Steelers.

I want to suit the Steelers. I want to salute Mike Tomlin on having to make a tough decision. And Russell Wilson having Mike Tomlin's back on that decision. He did, he made and keeping his promise and keeping his word when he named the starter for the NFL season, it was Russell Wilson. Obviously the injuries happened before the season started. Justin Fields came in and played phenomenal.

Obviously they started three and oh, uh, then went the four and two. Then Russell Wilson took the hand when he's one of the last two games. Uh, tonight's game was really good. It started off really good, especially the run game. But now it started very, very, very good. But it was the snooze fest. I'm going to just be honest with you. The game was a snooze fest.

The first quarter was a snooze fest. Second quarter was a snooze fest and somewhere at the middle of the third to the end of the game, all of a sudden it gets exciting. He's completing, he's, he's completing passes. The Jefferson, he's completing passes to Tom. God damn George Pickens, and Pickens, then penalties, penalties hurt, hurt the Steelers early in the game. I have to score. The score could have been much further away from this.

If you take some of the feelings away and take some of the, that I think is one, one or two two touchdowns if I'm not mistaken. George Pickens, if you get both feet down, that's another touchdown. Hell, I thought two, one foot was two feet. Two feet, we were equal two, right? Yeah, but- Yeah, I thought he hop hop. I guess, but that's what I thought, Ocho,

I honestly did. Oh, you did for real? I did, yeah. That's two feet. Yeah, I know when he doubled up on the right, I knew they weren't gonna count it though. I knew they weren't gonna count it tonight, tonight's game was really good. I'm really happy. I'm really happy.

And I can say this is a bangle and I have no problem. I thought the Steelers, I thought they would struggle when the season started because the quarterback, not really controversy, but because the quarterback carousel, they obviously they started three and oh, like, oh, shit. Based on what I saw from Justin Fields last year, I didn't know what Justin Fields we would get because he was up and down when he was Chicago. He comes out and plays phenomenal. Then the back changes made. I'm like, Oh, what Russell Wilson are we going to get?

Are we going to get Seattle Seahawks? Russell Wilson. I'm going to get the last year Denver Russell Wilson. Dude, he's playing really good. He's playing really really good football and man salute salute to see the hell salute the goddamn TJ fucking what? Hi Benny Bishop Joey put man them boys playing some ball man. Well, look I am not worried about what why what what's gonna go to the Hall of Fame That's gonna be his next stop.

Isn't that stop going to be in the Hall of Fame? He's that good. He's had that good a career. Uh, you look at a player of the year, a defensive player of the year, he could have had another one of those wars. I think he finished second one year to, uh, Aaron Donald. Um, he's routinely in double digit and sacks. I'm not, I'm talking about, I'm not talking about 11 or 12.

I'm talking about 15, 17. He tied Michael Strahan's record of 22 and a half sacks. I'm not talking about 11 or 12. I'm talking about 15, 17. He tied Michael Strayhands record of 22 and a half sacks in a season. If anybody can break that record, I think it's gonna be him. He's extremely, he's six foot tall. He's great with the, he's great, he's tremendous with his hands.

He's great with the lockout, the press. Oh man, he has no weakness when it comes to rushing the passer and he's stout against the run. He can set the edge, which means he keeps his outside shoulder free. You're not getting the edge on it. Yeah. You're not getting the edge on him. So don't even run over there. You better run up inside because he's a hell of a, he's a hell of a guy at setting the edge. And when you play that, when you play that defense and most of the time, Oh Joe, in a three, four defense, you won't big, strong,

physical linebackers because most of the time they're matched up against tackles. Yeah. And you know, they're matched up again. Right. So when you go back to look at it, you look at that defense, Bill Belichick, he had LT, he had Carl Banks. You look at him. He had William McGinnis. He had Brayboy. He had Van Oy. He had a, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Nikovic. That's what you have to have guys. Six, four, two 45, two 50, two 60 that set the edge and could hunk anchor down because you can't let them run the football. Bill Belichick said it. We stopped the run. We make you one dimensional. Same thing with the Steelers. One dimension.

You look at Porter, you look at all those Jason Gilded, all those guys that have had set the edge extremely well. Hey, listen, Giants, Giants, Giants rookie, Tracy's a rookie, ain't he? I think so. Yeah. That Giants rookie had some, had a good day on the ground running the ball. Oh, he ran, he ran extremely well. Yeah. He ran the ball really well. But that that goddamn T.J. Watt, man, every every game

he plays, every game he's played, you just ran off some of his accolades and he's going to be a Hall of Famer. Yeah. And the defense in he has a multitude of moves that he has a more he can bull rush you. He can speak a spin move. He could he could attack you on the upfield show. He could take on the on the inside. The end. Oh, dog, he just could do everything. So I'm watching the game. Normally I watch the wide receivers.

I'm watching the wide receivers and the DBS go at it. But just watching T.J. Watt play, they have to play where he got the strip sack. Right. Yeah. The strips every couple of the fumble. And my first is I know the back has to go out. But even so, he couldn't chip. He couldn't chip and he left the right tackle out. And that is I know the back has to go out. Well, even so he couldn't chip. He couldn't chip and he left the right tackle out. And that's the right time to go on his own. No. All I don't know.

Why would you why would you do that? You're asking for trouble, especially in that scenario. You're asking for trouble. He's not a guy that you better have. You better have a. What's the guy? T. Dove, you better have a, what's the guy, T-Dub, you better have a Trent Williams. Or you better have the right tackle at Philly.

What's the right tackle name at Philly from Oklahoma? Leon, wait, not Leon. What's his name? Damn, why is it slipping my mind? I know. He's really good. Yeah, Lane Johnson. Lane Johnson. You better have Lane Johnson. he's really good. Yeah, we ain't Johnson Johnson. You better have Elaine Johnson

He's really good. You got some are Arbitrary tackle me the guy. Okay, he's the starting right tackle. No, don't play around with it I don't mean he ain't to be mess with he demands more of your respect than that and he's the guy Offensively when we go in on Wednesday, he's circle. Yes. He's the guy we He's the guy we've got our account for because if we don't account for him, he's going to wreck our offense. Those guys, you circle them. The Reggie Wise, the Lawrence Taylor, the Derek Thomas, those were the guys that the Bruce Smiths, those were the guys that we have circled. Right.

That if you didn't block him, you couldn't win. The Ray Lewis is at the middle linebacker. Oh, Dion, don't worry about him. Hey guys, you'll get some great cardio today. We ain't effing block him. You couldn't win. The rain loses at the middle linebacker. Oh, Dion, don't don't worry about him. Hey, guys, you'll get some great cardio today. We ain't every with him. I just thought, hey, hey, you get cardio in. You won't have to run on Monday because you will get a lot of running today. But we ain't throwing you the ball.

Yeah. But that's how good that's how good TJ Watt is. His brother was the same way. JJ had a motor. They got motors. They're Midwestern kids, hard working. They grew up, I mean, to have two brothers that dominate like they can. That's crazy.

Listen, you know how hard it is to have siblings that are both good at a sport? Yeah. You know how hard it is? Normally there's a drop off in talent and skills. Yes. Yes. The fact is that not very many Tiki, Barbara, Santana, Sonora, Smalls, T.J., T.J., T.J. White, Nick Bosa, Joey Bosa.

I mean, I'm a lie. You got Rhonda and Tiki. Me and my brother Clay and Bruce Matthews. They've been they've been some brothers. Yeah. Yeah. D Joke is here. I mean, you have Walter and Eddie Payton. Yeah. You know, they've been some brothers, man.

But a who these two these two hell raisers here, man. A A Justin James is JJ. I don't know what TJ first day. Maybe he James too. But then some, hey, the corn fan we harvested white boys from Wisconsin. They're from Wisconsin, right?

Wisconsin? Yeah. Okay, Trent Jordan watt and Justin James watt. Woo! Boy, them watt parents, I think they got another brother too. That was a fullback at, uh, at the charges. Real? Yeah. Hey, it's three of them.

It's three of them. I don't know if he's still in the league old show, but if I'm not mistaken, yeah. There. Yeah. Is that him? He was drafted by the charge? Yeah. But them two, but them two older ones? Yeah.

Because I think it's I think it's a JJ and TJ and then there's the younger. Right. Because I think there was a picture one time where all the ones on the field again, one time, but boy, can you can you imagine? I think it'd have been very interesting to see how good JJ could have been had those injuries not crept up on him. Right. Because he had a stretch that was as good of any stretch.

He had like a five year stretch, Ocho, that was good as any defensive player in the history of the game. Now, the only player that I can think that had a stretch that was top that was LT. Yeah. LT was a player, LT won Super Bowls in that stretch. LT was a player of the year, a defensive player of the year.

If I'm not mistaken, LT was like a nine time or 10 time first team all-pro. God, what time? Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, LT was that. LT was defensive rookie of the year and defensive player of the year in the same year. And at that time, they didn't count sacks as an official stat.

The fact didn't become an official stat until 1982. It was Deacon that coined the phrase sacking the quarterback, Deacon Jones. And I used to see Deacon all the time at the Super Bowl. And I was like, his name is David Jones. I said, Deacon, I said, what's your real name? He said, David. I said, well, why you change your name?

He said, David don't sell no damn tickets. Deacon sell tickets. All right, that's a good one. But Deacon, man, it was great to be around those old guys. But uh, but a T.J. Watt, he was he's been phenomenal. I'm not just gonna say he was phenomenal tonight. He's been phenomenal. They want. So I'm glad I'm glad I get an opportunity to witness. Sorry, brother play. I thought his brother was to be a hell. I talked to Wade Phillips and everybody was surprised that they took him that high.

And they talked about he's going to be a bust. And Wade said, yeah, you're right. He's going to be a bust. He's going to have it in Canton though. That's the bust he's going to have. Right, right, right. And I think he retired last year. So this year, last year.

So he got the, he on the clock. Four years, he on the clock. He'll be in camp. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liars Poker. On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert.

My next season's all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Oh Joe, a quarterback change could be coming at Indianapolis.

And coach Shane Steichen was noncommittal on Monday asked whether or not Anthony Richardson would main the team starting quarterback against Minnesota in week nine asked more specifically if Richardson is coach quarterback right now. Stiken replied today he is yes but would not say if that would be the case moving forward we're evaluating everything not just the quarterback everything we all got to be better, not just the quarterback, everything, we all gotta be better. There's a whole bunch of areas that we can improve on. I'm not just talking about the quarterback, I'm talking about everything.

We've gotta be better moving forward. Ocho? Like shit like that, man. I hate stuff like that, especially in the middle of the season. Be direct with your comments. I know you're the head coach. I know you don't want to let things out, you know, to the reporters. You know whether you're going to start them or not. You know whether you're going to start them or not.

Why even play that game? Why even play that game? Now you bench your quarterback because he's maybe struggling a little bit, you know. If you watch the game, I'm not sure. The people obviously the people at home only get to see the TV copies. But, you know, if you like for you seeing the 22 22, that it is different. You know, he needs to work. There's some stuff he needs to work on.

Yes, there's some stuff he needs to work on. He's not playing well for that team to be as good as they should be with what he has around him. He's not. Yeah. I'm just going to be, I'm just going to be honest. So a change, a change might come when they go to Flacco, but I'm not sure how that helps him because the only way for Anthony Richardson to get better is to be at the helm in making

those mistakes and growing from them and learning from them. But see if I'm saying, putting Flack Owen does what exactly? Keep my job. That's what it does. You see, you just say a quarterback get head coached. You're fine. Well, they do.

Cause then listen, there's another one on the, on the high seat down there in Jacksonville now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Doug Peterson is absolutely on the hot seat with Trevor Lawrence. Yeah. Absolutely. But the part that scares me though, when you do something like this for a quarterback that's that young and you bench him. I don't want him to start doubting himself. I don't want him to start doubting himself. And then what happens?

He also becomes gun shy and the things that makes him special. The things that make Anthony Richardson, Richardson special. Then he'll stop doing it because he doesn't want it to happen again. But he becomes hesitant. He starts to become indecisive. And it also messed with your psyche and your confidence. But then I got pinched. Oh shit, now I gotta come back.

When I do come back, I gotta do everything perfect. I can't make no mistakes. And when you can't play freely, that's not good. I think the thing is Ocho, he does a great job of throwing the deep ball, is the touch, is the timing throws that he struggles with Yeah, he doesn't have the touch

Currently, I'm not saying they can't get anything. I have to be this Everything is going through the eye of a hurricane. I'm like damn, bro He thought to a what he tried to throw everything through the eye of a hurricane. I'm like, bro. That's a good one. I ain't heard that. Bro, he right there. Right, right. Oh, Joe, you know you can't throw a shallow cross like you

thought it did, like you thought it did. Yeah. They have to do 46 yards from you. Yeah, that's why they have the sand. They love quarterbacks. They have a catchable ball. Yes. Yes.

Catchable ball. Everything doesn't have to be thrown with the same velocity. You know, there are times, if you look at my home, when he threw that one to Kelsey, he knows the guy's coming down to rob him. I gotta get it there in a hurry.

But now I throw the shallow cross. I know, hey, I gotta give, I gotta give a, well, it wasn't a shallow cross. It was almost like a Q9, a spread option route to save your worthy. I gotta give him a um, well, he, it wasn't a shallow cross. It's almost like a, uh, a Q nine, a sprint option route to save your worthy. I got to give him a catchable ball, put it out in front of him so he can turn and get the ball into the end zone. That's a part of it is the most important thing is given a guy to run

with it after he catches it. Cause a lot of times I'll tell you, throw me the ball and I got to go down to catch it, what could have been yards after the catch now I got a seven yard game and it could have been a 15 yard game. Right. But that's what the really great quarterbacks understand. I just think, look, he's extremely young. I'm not so sure how many years when he start, maybe one year in college. Yeah. If that. And so there's a lot of there's a lot of maturity that needs to take place

in order for him to be the quarterback that they want him to be and the quarterback that he hopes to become. Right. But what happened yesterday? Oh Joe. Oh yeah. I won't help his situation. Now.

Not at all. Not at all. And again, with that situation as well, I wish he would have told the truth about what the real issue was and on why he went out. I guarantee you. I'm not sure at what point I probably the storylines out already. And he said it was tired. Ain't no way in hell. That was the reason why you asked him to went out. I guarantee you, I'm not sure at what point. I probably the storylines out already. And he said it was tired. Ain't no way in hell that was the reason why you asked him to come out.

I guarantee you, I swear for God, something was wrong with that left ankle. I'm telling you, something was wrong with that left ankle. Well, he's got to go with that one. I'll go with that one. The way he got tackled and dude, pin him just a little bit, pin him just a little bit pin him just a little bit? I'm sure you might have aggravated it. He went out and Want to say oh, I was tired you listen. You're not playing receiver. You're not playing running back You're not doing enough running like that. Even if you do have

You're not doing enough running like that to be tired in that situation or in that moment for that matter be tired in that situation or in that moment for that matter. I don't want to say none. I ain't going to disagree with you. I ain't going to say you, you, you're not wrong when you're right, but go with that because there's a bad look to say you were tired because do you know how, also does he understand how tied linemen are, how tied the tight end is, how tired the backs are we're actually actually running the receivers about multiple times. You scramble.

The receivers are scrambled in 30 and 40 yards, two, three plays back to back to back. Right. And a lot of times we're not allowed to come out because we are afraid to come out on show because like, hell, if raw come out, Rod tired. I'm tired, Ed tired. So now damn, we got our three starters out and we got three backups in.

Somebody gotta stay. Two of the three starters gotta stay on the field. Right. And plus I want the ball. Hey, Ocho, I see Ed and Rod tapping out. I might start, oh no, I go ahead. Come on, John, go throw it to me now. Cause I know we got two guys coming in. I know he ain't finna trust them guys coming in there. Let me no, I go go ahead. Come on, John. Go forward to me now because I know we got two guys coming in

I know he ain't pretty trust them guys coming in there. Let me go get this fast right right But I think that's the thing to Ocho. I think um, you just have to be you know It's just not a good look. Yeah. Yeah, let's say you got tired of your yo Think about the line, but don't show pass block at the, especially in the two minute, or you know, you down. I think somebody already pulled him aside. He has to be a little bit more media savvy. You got to be a little bit more media savvy and PC and understand how to manipulate the answers

on the questions that are being asked. That's all. Again, that's a part of the growing, that's a part of the maturity and the growing pains as well in being in an NFL. He'll get it, though. He'll get it, though. I just I just don't want to see Mr. Stike and I don't want to see him bench him. I don't want to see him because I think that could that could do more harm than

good for him. The only way he's going to get better is being on the field, making those mistakes, realizing what those mistakes are when you watch film. And then you go out the next time, you try to do your best to eliminate those mistakes until you get them perfect. You never get it perfect, but you strive for it. And the better you are as a player, the better your team is gonna be.

Shane Stackett is worried about losing the team also. Ocho, you remember when we was playing? So you too young to be tired. You know how you say you was tired. Oh Joe, you were your early twiddies. What did the coach tell you? So you too young to be tired. They bring up the age.

They bring up the age. Oh Joe, before we go into our next segment, the farmer dogs makes and delivers fresh healthy dog food right to your door. Developed by best made from fresh real meat and veggies. Food is pre-portioned based on your unique nutritional needs. Get 50% off your first box of fresh healthy food at thefarmersdog.com slash nightcap. Plus you get free shipping. Just go to farmersdog.com slash nightcap to get 50% off. Teddy bear, where you on? Come here. Come here, Teddy. Teddy Bear, where you are? Give me. Give me Teddy. David. Teddy Bear.

What up twin? Teddy Bear, you supposed to be in the bed. Why are you not in the bed? Why aren't you in the bed? Say hello. Say hello. Oh Joe, you want to go stay the Tampa then? Uh, because they ain't got no, they ain't got no trees, Daddy.

I know they got no trees. They don't feed me table food, so I ain't gonna be able to cut it. Hey, let me, let me, let me, I can use it. I can use it and use him as a gift right now too. Hey, the more the market dude, just help the boy out. Mike McCarthy cited Trevon Diggs confronting a television reporter after last night lost an example of a teen frustration with his three and four record. We have to be better in those moments. I always talk about staying on the high road.

That's a part of our responsibility in this business. But I'm not ignorant or naive to the fact this generation, that's part of the world they live in, the social media world. You have to manage that. That's part of being a professional athlete. And that's part of representing this organization properly. Diggs addressed the situation with teammate Michael Parsons

on Pars's podcast today I just felt like it was unnecessary. I just felt like he was trying to use my name for clicks and after the game I just happened to see it. Oh I'm like, let me finish what he said. I just happen to see it. I clicked on it. Then I see who it was I was like, oh, he's right here. I just saw you I went up to him and just spoke how I felt me if I was playing now Ocho I ain't gonna I ain't gonna even look I ain't gonna look at social media until I get on the bus right but damn near to the plane because I don't want to have the check look I get it when you lose it's stuff when you win but if the

guy praised him when he'll confronted the guys, Hey man, I appreciate the words of encouragement, man. That's great. No, not, not at all. But what, you know what I don't like from the media side, especially for the report, everything is magnified. Everything is magnified when you lose him. So to me and no disrespect, you know, cause I know how you feel about it.

And I did say he was loafing on a plate. Yeah. The fender, when you have two defenders that are in a better position to make the play than you, sometimes you slow down because you expect them to make that play. You can't assume that. Yeah, you're right. You can't assume that you can. You got to be running all the way through. But what I don't like.

Is the fact that when you are losing some of the smaller stuff, I call it nitpicking, I call it nitpicking, you know, when when you're losing some of the smaller stuff, I call it nitpicking. I call it nitpicking. You know, when you're losing as a team, there's certain things you can get away with, and there's certain things you can't when you losing. And that's one of them. So now they don't find anything they can to say, but see, this is one of the reasons why we losing right there.

Trevon D is not running. But he not lying. Think about how bad your defense, your defense is dead lagging, stopping to run. So what does that mean? Running is what? Effort. Right.

That's effort. All we ask is effort. I can't look here. I can put you in a great situation, but if you don't give me the effort, it's all for naught. So let's just say for the sake of argument, on that play, he was loafing. The next play, somebody else was loafing.

The next play, somebody else was loafing. The next play, somebody else was loafing. Now you get how you're dead last at stopping the run. Now you see why you're dead last. Now you see why you're not attacking the quarterback because everybody pick, all it takes is one. So you know what? That's okay, Treyvon. Next time it's somebody else.

Okay, bro, that's okay. So now we get 65 plays where somebody lo. So one then what happens, Ocho? Yes, you three and four before you give up 200 yards. You're giving up 200 plus yards a game rush D That that's that's what people don't understand see you think it's just it's just a one-off right right But what if it what if one player did that on every play? Regardless, offense or defense, just one play, just one player out of 11. That's why I say it's a team.

That's why it takes every man. I'm counting on every man, not just the man right next to me, but the man on the other side that he's doing what he was supposed to. So let me ask you a question. When his teammates cut that film on and they see that what you think they think of no joke.

Yeah. Hey, listen, can you imagine being on the, on the, on the Cowboys defense and they turn on the film and have to watch film? I don't know if they walk collectively as a group or they watch it by position. But boy, listen, the way people running down your throat. That's what I'm talking about. Hey, boy, I hated to lose a game and I know you're going to watch that film. We're going to watch that film on Monday.

I mean, on Wednesday, when my eighties, we're going to watch them. We're going to watch the tape. God, oh, my God. Oh, wait, gonna watch them. We're gonna watch the tape. And we'll take, God almighty. Oh wait, as a team? Wait, everybody in there? The entire office, wire receivers, running backs, quarterbacks, tight end. We all, I know I look like a fool, Lord have mercy.

Hey, will you mess up and everybody get to see it? Okay, you see how I slide down the chair? Why can't even get up. It's a day. Hey, that's a. Yeah, you get old, Joe. Is that. That's why you make sure you put a great film.

Yeah, because not only is your team watching it, that goes to other 31 teams,. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Listen, there was there's a certain level of uncomfortability, even though it's a sport that you play to go out there Sunday and lose and have bad plays. Let's say you run 65 plays at those 65. You got you might have four. That's embarrassing. Yes. Really embarrassing.

And if you have to watch it as a collectively as an offense and you know people gonna see that and you know they gonna point it out. Yes. Oh they gonna point it out. Now when we did it in position, position meetings we watched for them. Okay there was a certain level of comfort. There's a certain level of comfort. Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. It's just us. I mean you know I'm good but boy that full team oh man. What? Oh and you know you man look here man I one time we were playing a preseason game and I held a guy it was a player it was a toss away yeah and I'm full to cut off it was like the same thing had dropped down in the box and I grabbed it I grabbed it from behind oh you know what you couldn't cut him off but he came he came shot down too fast. He came down and box and I grabbed it. I grabbed it from behind. Oh, you might say, Oh, no, what?

You couldn't cut him off. But he came, he came shot down to came down and cut across. I knew it. I knew it. Yeah. Mike said, don't hold it. He said, if he catch TV from the backside, I get a need. I need to get a new back.

Okay. But if you get a penalty, now you're going to take away a big run. Okay. But that was a look here, man. The meetings, people don't understand. You we already knew there are sometimes you had to have Armadillo skin. Oh, yeah. You had to have a shell to go up in that thing. Because, hey, Mike, Alex, give now sometimesl would a little bit more subtle about it.

He's like, 84, you're better than that. I know we expect you to make that play. Alex Gibbs ain't give a damn. The offensive line coach, all the muscles, 84. What the hell you lift the weight for? Mike, hey. Yeah. That ain't good. Yeah, that ain't good.

Yeah, my favorite, my favorite, my favorite as far as chastising by a coach where everybody even, nobody special. When I went to New England, when I went to New England, I saw Bill Belichick chew Brady ass out in front of the entirety of the offense, the entirety of the team on why they lost to the Jets and whatever playoffs that was that division around the year before. Round.

And he came back and purposely had tape and film on the reason on why they lost. And he pointed out all the Brady's bad plays. I was like, you've got to be kidding me. I got to be getting punked. I got to be getting punked. Bill, what the fuck is this shit? How do we expect to compete if you're playing, you're making mistakes like what the huh?

Are you talking to 12 like that? I looked I looked over at Vince. I looked over at Vince Willfork, I didn't forget, and my eyes, and I'm like, are you serious? Just Vince's just like, this is not his head. Boys, it's different ballgames. So I got a better understanding. Okay, this is why these motherfuckers win. Absolutely.

Year out, year in and year out. They had 20 years worth of success. Hey, that's like Mike wouldn't do John like that. They would have a meeting. John would go to his office. John was like, okay, he jumped in my ass. I'm gonna jump in. I cover for you.

I'm about to jump in your ass. That's how it was. We were accountable. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Hey, be 80, 87, because obviously, you know, We were accountable. Oh yeah, yeah. Hey, be it 80, 87, because obviously, you know, and people ask, why you call, that's how we refer to guys.

We refer to guys as the numbers, 80, 87, 30, even though we call TD, we call TD Jew. Most of us went by number seven. We held everybody accountable. It didn't matter what your resume said. That ain't what it said on that place. Right. I ain't talking about, we can't take the Pro Bowls and the All-Pros and all that other stuff you got. We couldn't take that away. But on that play, that was some bulljive. Right. And that'll

get us beat. Diggs also made an interesting comment when talking about the reason for the loss against the 49ers. I feel like it was their coach. They had a great, they had great, they had great coaching. They adjusted to the things we were running. I feel like every time they call, it was just a counter to what we were in. It was just like, uh, S-O-L. They got good players.

They got the right pieces. So they were executed. Wow. Wow. At some point in time now, I remember Chris Richard. He wasn't no good. Right. Uh, what's the guy named from Tampa? Uh, what was the guy named? He was the head coach of the Detroit Lions.

Rod, Rod Marinelli. He didn't get it done. Mike Nolan, he didn't get it done. At one point in time, and that was the problem that I had. At one point in time, do players accept responsibility? So let me guess, that's what Zim, he coached you to do that on that play. Right. He's an A. The guy breaks down the sideline, I want you to hit a jog.

Because maybe somebody else will make the play. That's what he could, that's what he coaching. Fint responsibility. What's your gap integrity? You supposed to be in the A gap, have your ass in the A gap. Right. The guy goes in the B, that ain't got nothing to do with me. I'm A. B or C ain't got is to do with Shane.

I don't man. Why won't people? Why won't people accept responsibility? Right. Is it really that hard to be accountable? I'm wrong. You know what? I was wrong, man.

I got to play better. It's OK. What what Trayvon needs to understand is that, Trayvon, you're one of the better corners in the league. You should demand more of yourself. Damn what they expect of you. You should demand that. You should say, you know what?

I wanna be an All-Pro. I'm trying to make the All-Pro team every year. Man, I'm trying to go to camp. Right. I don't know, what are you guys playing for? Y'all want to have the biggest chain. Y'all want to have the most cards. Y'all would have the most, the most, you know, garden too.

I don't know what you're looking for, but what you want, you're making a boat ton of money. Don't you want to be like, when it's all said and done? When you go back, like when you go back, how revered you are and since it when I go back to Denver, how they plow. I don't get it. Yeah. I just don't I just don't get it, man. And listen, you think the reporter, you know, pointed that out.

Wait till they play. Wait till they play this weekend. Wait till they play the weekend after that. Because everybody's going to be watching. Everybody tune in because now remember you got the star on your helmet. Yeah. Everybody's watching the team with the star on their helmet. LeBron James only has seven points. He's had over, he's gone almost, he's gone 1200 plus games, scoring at least double figures.

He's three and a half, he's three minutes and 49 seconds. He needs three points. Could this be the time? I don't know if somebody will ever break that record. He's two or 13, one or four. He has seven points, eight assists and five rebounds. So we're on alert. Record breaking alert.

Not in a good way. Sean Payton on the Panthers saying he tried to run the score up. It's an NFL play. But did he hear what I said? I could have swore I told you that yesterday. You know, he, you know, them coaches, them coaches hit. Oh, man. You know, he, you know, them coaches, them coaches hit. Oh, man, everybody listen, man.

They might not watch it live like this, but I guarantee you, it get to him now. It get to him. Hey there, it's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side, and Liar's Poker. On every season of my podcast Against the Rules, I take a broad look at various

characters in American life. The referee, the coach, the expert. My next season is all about fans and what the rise of sports betting is doing to them, to the teams, and even to my family. I'm heading to Las Vegas and New Jersey and beyond to understand America's newest form of legalized gambling. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. John Payton on the Panthers saying he tried to run the score up is the NFL play better with the Broncos ahead by 21 points in the fourth quarter against the Panthers.

Payton called a fake field goal and had the wide receiver, Courtney Sutton, throw a pass to the fullback, Michael Burton to convert a fourth down. Those play calls upset members of the Panthers and J.C. Horn was caught on camera saying the Broncos were trying to run the score up. Yep, that's what we do. That's what offense is supposed to do. Payton said he looked at us trying to win a football game and trying to learn to close out a game and suggested the Panthers play better if they like to stop the Broncos from doing such. Oh, we're trying to finish the game the right way.

We're not trying to run the score up on anyone. It's the National Football League. I've been in games with a 28-point lead in the fourth quarter and lost. So we're trying to finish. You gotta be alert for everything. You gotta play football. It's a football game. You don't stop playing and don't stop being alert

for any and everything until the goddamn clock hit zero in the fourth quarter. I'm coaching a game, not the scoreboard. And I think I brought it up to you before about coaches having a pack. There's a certain pack that I thought they had but there's certain amount of respect where you don't run the score up and In the and I mentioned that you was like hell no but I remember sometimes where coach ran the score up or

Through a pass or score the touchdown when they shouldn't have when they should have took a knee and instead of shaking hands They got the argument made feel after the game. Yes Yeah, okay hands they got to argue in that midfield after the game yes i said yeah okay well well maybe there is a certain pack that coaches live by and it's a sign of respect not to run the score up dang it we running it up look i'm running my offense right i'm not i'm not just spending with 10 minutes to go in the game and we're up 21. We're up 28 points. I'm not just going to run the ball into the line of scrimmage. Great three straight down. I'm going to call my office.

Right. You call your defense. I want to know this. How did we get this 21 point lead where we run in the score being because we started at zero zero. What's your responsibility and to keep me from running up a team? Right. Hey, JC, were you on that defense that helped them get that let them get that 21 point lead?

A young bull nice with it too. I hate the fact, no disrespect. I hate the fact that he's on the Panthers. Because if he was on any other team, I think you would be able to see how good J.C. Horne really is. I don't like the fact that he's over there. He's so technically-

Everybody can't be on great teams, damn! I know what you mean, dawg. He's so, and man to man, he's so technically sound, dawg. So fucking smooth and transitioning. But that's that's that's beside the point. But hey, Panthers, it's just it's just right now just bad all all around, all around. And I know Dave Teffel, I know I know he got it. You got a short everybody got it. You got a short leash with everybody, but

he got to show everybody. Hey, that's not my job to keep the score down. That's your coach's job to keep the score down. Right. My job is to run it up. Your job is to keep it down. So you want me to coach your team and mine? Hell, I need double painting. That's a good one.

I saw it already wasn't a fan of Bill Belichick criticism after the Jeff lost to the Patriots on Sunday. Belichick called out the Jets I read it wasn't a fan of Bill Belichick's criticism after the Jets lost to the Patriots on Sunday Belichick called out the Jets and read it specifically on the Pat McAfee show There's a lot of mistakes by the Jets in that game As I already came in the J the game and just ran by the quarterback multiple times Belichick comments prompted ready to respond on social media. Oh, hey Someone can call Bill Belichick and give him a job. Seems like he's at home. He's home bored and can't keep me out of his mouth.

Come up here. Why don't you? No, did he cry an emoji? Well. You did say to play as these days, a little bit emotional. Yes, they don't they don't take criticism very well. You know, he has missed a lot of playing time. Yes. A lot of practice training camps, mini camps, OTAs, you know, I think he is going to be effective and make a difference on that defense. It's going to take a while, Ocho. We halfway through the damn season.

Yeah, oh yeah, it's going to take a minute. Joe, we have way through the season. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's going to take a minute. You know, once, once I'm, once he get in that rhythm, get a feel for the game, his body and mind catches up to the speed of the game. He's going to be all right, but it's going to take a few games to get there. Oh Joe, what did coach Belichick say? Well, so bad. He grass just ran up the field and ran by the quarterback. Now you might say coach Belichick and a great defensive. It might not be a great GM.

Look at the people look at as because if Tom, you know, Tom needed more, they gave him less and expected him to do what he had been doing the previous years. But to argue his defensive, I mean, his defensive brilliance. Yeah, I don't think I don't, I don't think, I don't, I don't think he would challenge that. You won't win that. You can't challenge that.

You won't win that. The man has a defensive game plan that's in the Hall of Fame. His game plan against the Buffalo Bills is in the pro football hall of fame. They beat the greatest show on turf, one of the biggest upset in Super Bowl history, very good game at that. You can say a lot of things about coach Belichick. His defensive mind should be unquestioned. Einstein. I'm sorry. After an overwhelming social media reaction to Sunday's unveiling of the statue of D

Wade's outside. What is it? Casio Casio Center. The artist behind the statue are standing behind their work. I couldn't do better than that. I don't think anybody else can do better than that. I could. I'm out. I could with a 10 gallon bucket of water and some clay and some mud. Hey, I have a question. People in the chat. I know you've seen it. People in the chat. Have you seen Ed Reed's Hall of Fame bus? Yeah. Do you see how identical your bus looks to you? Yeah.

It's identical. Ed Reed's bus looks to him. I'm not sure who does the bus for the for Ken in the Hall of Fame. They have two guys but I think a guy named Blair Brough or Buzzwell. Yeah. Look it up Blair Buzzwell. He's out of, I think he's out of Ogden Utah. Maybe he lived, but he did mine. I think he did, I think he's out of, I think he's out of Ogden, Utah. Maybe he lived, but he did mine. I think he did, I think he did Ed Reed's also. Yeah. And listen, I don't know, that is who, I'm not sure who was in charge

of getting D Wade's bust done. And then for the guy who did D Wade's bust to come out and say what he said that a better job couldn't have been done what he did when the entirety of the world is telling you it looks nothing like the individual. And you know it doesn't. Let's say they say that they say D-Way statue look like Garrett Moore's.

You know, another thing is this is also on D-Way too, because on Twitter today, I saw pictures of him looking at the process of it being made. So that means he not only saw it wasn't being done right, he approved it. So, you know what, Ocho, but you know, you don't want to make the guy feel bad, but you don't want to make it. Plus, you're not paying for it. Right. But come on, if somebody do it, let's just say for the sake of argument, someone is doing a portrait of you and Ray you pay a foot out of your pocket you like

How you gonna give me a goatee I Got no goatee right why you got rail with a Halle Berry cut you know I'm saying I'll be it's like I'm looking at the picture now, man. I I'm looking at it and I saw what you saw because the same thing happened. When they come, like we get measured for the Hall of, when you get the Hall of Fame, OK, Ocho, we go in. That Monday, they have the artist there. They're taking measurements.

They got this and they're seeing the distance between your eyes. They're seeing if there's any distinguishable characteristics. They give you a boatload of pictures that you can choose from because a lot of times, OK, OK, do you like this? Do you like this photo of yourself? Do you like this photo of yourself? You like this one? You like this one?

And so that starts the process because now he's got to bring this clay to life. Right. OK, so that was in. Because now he's got to bring this clay to life. Right. Okay. So that was in, um, that was in February, May, they call you up. We like to come out. They're going to spend about three or four hours. They got the clay. They kind of got the rough draft of kind of what it's supposed to look like.

Now he's don't go do it again. He takes the measurement. They got that thing, you know, no, you know, this, the width of your mouth, top of your everything. Now he's doing that with the clay because he's got, okay, he's doing this. He's doing this. He's doing this. Like, what do you think?

What can you do? I'm like, what about my, uh, I think it's on this side. What's I think it's on this side. I got a scar under my eye. I was like the scar. Okay. Okay. I'm glad you brought that up. I got a scar up under my eye. I was like, the scar, okay, okay, I'm glad you brought that up. Put a little scar there. I said, what about the part?

Oh, got that. So I'm telling him, as I'm looking at the photo that I selected that I want it to be, because a lot of the photos, they try to get the photo, Ocho, in the way that most of your photos are. Because you got one photo. You got a pose that you have more than any of your other photos.

So that's the one they try to go with. But at the end of the day, you can select whatever you like. Clearly, a with the Frederick Douglass look. Yes. So it is spot on. It is spot on. Dead on. Yeah. Yeah. So it is spot on. Then it is spot on. They hit on. Yes. But yeah, man, I just. The guy, the guy, the guy. I mean, the fact that the person that did the way's bust came out and said

what he said and didn't issue apology. I understand the way he didn't want to be D-Way didn't want to be rude. Yeah. He didn't want to be rude, but come on, come on, bro. Come on, come on. That ain't you. Come on now. You know, at some points you have to tell people,

you know what, this isn't right, because if it's not right and the rest of the world is saying it's not right, even though you're trying to be nice, then he will continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over instead of improving on his craft and what he does I don't know if he gonna get any more work. Yep If you oh Joe the shade tree mechanic don't get no work if he mess up somebody car that's a whole lot even even though He cheat don't cost deal won't crank after you take it to him, what the hell am I? Why am I gonna refer you to somebody else? Right?

So if I'm D Wade, I'll pay somebody to steal it. I Can't let y'all see this. Yeah, I have somebody else to redo it He came out better old Joe do it like you know, how do you go to the basketball game? They have the body and then they go live they let the little kids stick their head up in there. Put their head in the middle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That came out better do it that. That don't look so, like I said, I mean, D Wade,

I think everybody, we are in agreement that D Wade is very deserving. Well, that doesn't look like him, man. Listen, not only is he very deserving, if you're gonna give someone a statue, Yeah. Represent them the front of anywhere, it has to be on point. It has to be right. If you take the jersey off and you take the jury off the statue,

nobody would be able to tell you what he played. That was no. Nobody. And I don't know the way they got his face. Well, the land walk a little bit. I know who the hell it was. the way they got his face was a little like Antoine Walker a little bit. I didn't know who the hell it was. Yeah, they gotta fix it. And they got to, they really do.

I think because of the public, because of the public, I wouldn't call it backlash, but because of the public disapproval of it not looking like D Wade, somebody, a change is gonna have to be made. Yeah. If not, so be it. He might be a shade tree stroke a sculptor arm

Our Ronnie and his artistic partner Oscar Leon Are proud of their work and encourage people to come see it for themselves. No, I'm good What do you mean see it for ourselves? We saw it. It's everywhere. It's on Instagram. It's on TikTok. It's on Twitter. Yeah, I'm good. I saw it.

I'm gonna take your word for it. It's on Bookface. It's on everything. Ah, yeah. Hey, with a three, with two minutes left, LeBron James extends his all-time double-digit scoring streak to 1,226 games. In honor of LBJ go James this historic streak. I'm going to sign, but I'm going to do some, somebody going to win this.

Hold on. Did they win though? Oh, you asking too many questions. I know you just talked about the historic streak, but did the Lakers win? Isn't that, isn't that what's more important? We're down by two. We got them all. Oh, uh, LeBron makes one or two free throws.

He got 11 points. So they got the file. Don't file KD. Yeah, KD and Book went off. Book got 33, KD got 30. AD's been phenomenal all year. 29 points, 14 rebounds. Rui got 20 and 10. Austin Reeve, Kobe of the Ozarks has 23 and 8.

D-Lo was 14. LeBron, 3 of 14 from the floor. That's alright. Goat James LeBron's back. So what we gonna do? What we gonna do? I'm gonna sign this nightcap hat, and Ash is going to mail it to a random person

who makes a perch of merch using code 15. Halloween 15. So I'm gonna sign this like I always do. As you can see, hope y'all can see me signing this. Y'all see that? So the link is pinned at the top of the chat. If I'm not mistaken, this might be the first piece of nightcap merch I've actually signed. So, no, Err, that ain't gonna stop me.

Kobe or the Ozarks. Let the man live. Stall him out, man. So that's it. Sign the hat. Someone's going to win this nightcap hat. Order some merch. Halloween 15, you get 15 percent off and you're in a drawing to win this hat. Personally signed by me.

Dodgers win, they take a dominant three lead. For two, Walker Bueller pitched five scoreless ending. Bueller has three World Series starts with five plus innings and five fewer base, one of the loud each time a record unmatched in the World Series. Fred, Freddy, Freddy, Freddy Freeman, Freddy Freeman built in the two run Homer. He now has three home runs and as many games. Everybody will remember that iconic one,

the bottom of the tent, two out bases loaded, fastball by Cortez. He caught it. He was sitting on it and he took it over the fence. The Dodgers beat the Yankees 4-2. Take a commanding three-none lead. Now the Yankees have their backs against the wall. Can they do what's only been done one time? The Boston Red Sox came from behind in the American League Championships to win four straight games to win a best of seven series.

Can it be done? I think they're gonna send Gary Cole to the mound tomorrow. He's the best pitcher. Right. And. What's the percentage? What's the chances? What's the chances they come back and win this series?

What's the chances they even make this series competitive? I don't watch much baseball. They put man on the moon. So anything is possible Okay, but I wouldn't bet a dime. I wouldn't bet your money. They did come back and win let alone my own, right? damn, so The Dodgers the Dodgers got look Look the Dodgers show Hale Tony is about to win his third MVP. Freddie Freeman is an MVP. Mookie Betts is an MVP They got three MVPs in their first four batters

Wait a minute. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Hold on now The yankees have geon carlos stan. He had never won an MVP. They have warn soto They never wanted an MVP. They have brother jack jazz chisholm Never won an MVP. They have one Soto. They never wanted MVP. Yeah. Brother Jack Jazz Chisholm never wanted MVP. Do you understand? Do you understand how good Mookie Betts is? Oh, absolutely. Mookie Betts can be a gold glover at right field, center field, left field, shortstop, second base, third base and first base. Nobody has the person. There's not a bit of baseball player that has that

kind of versatility and be exquisite at it. Yeah, they have utility infielders that can play second place, play shortstop, but not at the level as Mookie Betts. He's one of them MVP. He can steal your base. He has great defensive prowess, can hit for power, can hit for average.

No, no, no, no, no. Shohei, do you understand what Shohei Otani is doing? He the real deal, boy. Freddie Freeman is an MVP. And he's already a World Series champ. I'm not saying the Yankees aren't good, but when the Yankees get runners in scoring position, they're not doing anything.

Yeah. Dodgers are putting the ball over the fence. You look at what's the name? Escobar, what's the Escobar? Home run. Edmund, what is the second baseman, the second baseman with a shortstop? Yeah.

He's building home runs. We know Freyde Freeman can hit it over the porch. Mookie can hit it over the porch. You know, he can hit over the book We know Shohei Hey, sometimes you just run up into this the team that just better. Hey Just better. It's okay. I mean the Oscar the Yankees had a phenomenal phenomenal regular season. Yeah. Yes Yes, but you look at judge, right? How's their postseason been or they just started to play bad because they're facing the Dodgers now Yes. But if you look at judge, right.

How's their postseason been? Or are they just started to play bad because they're facing the Dodgers now? They play it back. I mean, look, they, they, they beat the, they beat the guardians. What? Four, two. Who did they play the first? They play, who did they play first? The Orioles.

The Royals. They beat the Royals. They beat the Royals what 4-1? 3-1? Judge is struggling. He's not seeing the ball well. They're throwing the fastball by Judge and he normally drives at 450 feet. Every time.

From what I see. I don't watch them every time I got here and they go goddamn home run and they started out the same high level than this is really through it but I mean look it happens we saw a rod do the same thing. A-Rod win MVP after MVP, 40 homers, 130 rivies, and they get in the World Series and they move him up and down. They start him off at second, he bat in second, he bat third, he bat fourth, they bat him at eight.

Everybody can't beat Reggie Jackson and Mr. October. Right. But give the Dodgers credit. Give the Dodgers credit. Give the Dodgers credit. I should have played baseball, man. Hey there. It's Michael Lewis, author of Going Infinite, Moneyball, The Blind Side and Liar's Poker. On the latest season of my podcast Against the Rules, I'm exploring what it means to be a sports fan in America and what the rise of sports betting is doing to our teams, our states,

and ourselves. Join me and listen to Against the Rules on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Open your free iHeart app and search Against the Rules. Listen to Against the Rules on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.