Couple Things with Shawn and Andrew - the guy who knows us too well

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

What's up, everybody! Welcome back to Couple Things with Sean and Andrew. This episode is extra special — we're sharing our live conversation from the book tour with Jimmy [Sunny], the incredible ghostwriter and third author behind our new book on commitment. Jimmy has spent 15 years writing biographies and bestsellers — from Cato the Younger, to "The Founders" (the origin story of PayPal), to his upcoming book on Kobe Bryant. We talk about how our three very different writing styles collided (and somehow worked), the hardest parts of spending three years turning our lives into a book, and the surprising story behind our chapter on love. We also open it up to a live Q&A covering: Raising kids in youth sports without burning them out What sports really teach you about life and teamwork Advice for newlyweds and long-distance relationships Navigating modern dating outside the apps How parenting has changed (and challenged) who we are Prioritizing marriage, family values, and friendship Grab our book and follow along as we open up more than ever about commitment, marriage, parenting, and everything in between. 🔔 Subscribe for new episodes every week! #CoupleThings #ShawnJohnson #AndrewEast #BookTour #Commitment Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up, everybody? Welcome back to a couple things. With Sean and Andrew. I am so excited for this podcast. It was one of my favorite conversations I think we have ever had. I think it's revealing about who you and I are. Yeah. Because we sat down with Jimmy Sunny. The third author of our book.

That's right. If you look at her book, actually this is not going to work here. But our book actually has three authors and Jimmy's the third author. So we spent a lot of time with him. His background is amazing. He is an incredible writer. has written some really successful books that have been turned into movies. And we were really just honored to have him as a part of this project.

But we wanted to share this because I thought it was a fun conversation that we had. Again, that's insightful both to the book, but also to us. And this was from our tour that we did during the book launch week. So we hope you enjoy this one with Jimmy and Sean and myself. Sean and I embarked on writing this book. And we wrote, we wanted to write a book about commitment because we looked at our life and we're like okay when have things gone well for us and when to have things gone poorly and it was when we have approached life with this this this live this style of commitment and

we're defining that as essentially like you choose the things you're committed to and that's an invitation for that thing to then shape your habits and your character and ultimately your life and So whether that be a relationship or a team or a hobby, you know, for us it was athletics and like we made commitments to teams and coaches. And it's like deputizing these people to say, hey, you are going to shape me. And that's a really serious responsibility. But we started writing this book. And Sean's style was drastically different than Andrew's style.

And then so Jimmy came in as the mediator to a couple therapists. Yeah, I'm surprised you stayed on. But Jimmy is a legend, though. Can you give a little bit about your background, the books you've written, the projects you're working on now? It's such an honor to have you as a part of our project, and you're just a legend. I appreciate that coming from to other legends.

I have been an author now for 15 years, and the story starts very humbly. I saw a space on a bookshelf where there should have been a book. It was a very obscure subject, but it was a very obscure subject, but it was an ancient Roman senator whose name was Cato. He was Julius Caesar's arch-nemesis. And I was a nerd, obviously, and was super into Roman history, and was like, wait, I've read biographies of Cesar and I've read biographies of Cicero, but I've never read a biography of Cato, and he's so important, somebody should really do that book.

And so I called him a buddy of mine from college, and I said, hey, we should totally write this. We were like, 23. And he was like, you're insane. Like, why would you ever think that we'd be qualified to do that? And I was like, no, no, no, no. You don't have to write the whole book. We just write the proposal. And then we see if somebody buys it.

And then if they buy it, we'll figure that part out later. And that was how it went. And it was like, we were the dog that caught the car, because then the proposal sold. We had to figure out how to write a book about Cato the Younger. But that was not your only book you've written. No, I've done a bunch since. I did a book about a 20th century mathematician. For those who are from Brooklyn, you know that Jane's Carousel that's over there.

It's this really beautiful carousel. I actually did a coffee table book about that carousel. And then I did a book called The Founders, which was all about the origin story of PayPal and all the people who helped to create it. And then my project that I was working on concurrent to ours was I met a woman who did 36 years in prison for a crime she didn't commit.

And I worked with her to tell her story. She was an extraordinary human being. And she went in at 32, came out at 68. And my current project is a book about Kobe Bryant. That's amazing. You have to get all of it. them. But get theirs first because first week sales. I wouldn't mind that. You're leaving so much out. This book, the founders, is all about the PayPal founders, the people who shaped Silicon

Valley. He's sitting down interviewing Elon Musk, all these people, if anyone listens to like the all-in podcast, those guys, your interview and best-selling book in that regard. Also, has anyone used Claude, the AI? He wrote a book on the guy Claude. Did it? I don't even know. I was a real person. Claude Shannon. His name is Claude Shannon. And there's some debate about this. But I believe Anthropics Claude is named after Claude

Shannon, who was a 20th century mathematician, who ran away from fame. And I thought he should be famous. And so that's what I decided to try to do with that book. It was called a mind-to-play. And then Kobe Bryant, which he worked with us. I'm just like, why? What?

How was, what made you want to join us in writing this about commitment. Yeah, I mean, I think it was what we talked about when we first met is, you know, with ghost writing, it's a little bit like dating. Like you, you know, you don't take on to, if you're in my line of work, and I think if you're, if you care about it, you try not to do too many of these at any given time because you have to spend a lot of time talking to people and doing interviews. We were talking weekly for three years, right?

Like almost every week for three years, sometimes twice a week. and Andrew sent me more text and emails than any human being has ever sent me in my entire life. Like I would wake up, and I wake up pretty early. Right? I'd be up at like 4.35 o'clock in the morning. And I would wake up to text from him.

Like, oh, I had this idea, and this idea. And you just check out this book. And what about this framework? We should throw that in the book. But part of it was when I met you guys, it was just so clear that this was going to be a lot of fun. Like, it was going to be fun to do a book like this. And I also thought that, like, commitment is one of these topics.

Like, it is a word that is casually, thrown around, but nobody took it and kind of unpacked it and actually explained to people, well, it's more than just stick-to-itiveness. It's more than just a bumper sticker. I remember in the process of like trying to come up with the idea of the book and talking to publishers and talking to you and just writers and trying to figure it all out, we have been approached many times, way more than just too many times and before we started this book to do a book. And if I'm being very honest, every time we were approached to a book, it was to do a book that was very fluffy. That's the word I always used, which is very stereotypical for people that are in our position, having had our careers, which is tell us the drama, tell us your memories from the Olympics and the NFL.

Tell us about your marriage, the good, the bad, the ugly, and we'll put a picture on it and sell it. And we just didn't want to do that. And we kept turning it down and turning it down, turning it down. And we had this very vague idea that we couldn't articulate, but we read so many self-help books and sports psychology books. And Andrew even went back and got his doctorate, which the doctor is not on the cover, which Megan, he might be a little bitter about.

We can do it for the paperback. Next year, people. I went to school for two and a half years. I should have let the publisher know. And we finished the schoolwork, and then it was like a week after we had a call and I was like guys you won't believe it I finished my doctorate and

we can put it on the cover now and they're like no we're not going to do that on the next thing I was like I was like oh my gosh I should have asked before but we had this idea to do like I don't want to say like a purposeful book because that would be patting myself on the back but a book with just like depth and meaning that was way not a fluffy book and

trying to get people to sign on to that with us didn't make sense they were like Like you're not Arthur Brooks. You're not the atomic habits guy. Just stay in your lane and talk about gymnastics or football. And we found Jimmy and we were having this conversation. He's like, I love this. And I was like, oh, my gosh, really?

And so I told Andrew right after we talked to Jimmy, I was like, we have to get that guy. He's the best. And then that was like the first step. And the next step was when we got portfolio and they were willing to take a chance on it. And I was like, this is actually coming together. Now it's really scary because it's out, and you guys are actually going to read it.

And I just, if you don't like it, just lie. But it has been a really special process, and we are really proud of what it is. Well, as you should be, and I'll say the other reason to embarrass both of you for a minute, because we should do that, is there's this, like, there's this thing. Like, there are some things in life that when you encounter them, they are not as good as advertised, right? And then there are these rare moments in your life when, like, you go do a thing,

you go visit a place, and it lives up to its billing, right? For me, I remember what this is random, but one was like Petra, like Petra and Jordan. I remember visiting Petra and being like, this really did live up to the billing, right? Like, it looks as cool as it did in Indian Jones. And, like, people say that about the Grand Canyon. I would say, like, Andrew and Sean are as good as advertised.

Like Andrew and Sean actually live what is in this book. And if the book works, and I think it does, it's because you live it. It's like that line. Like who you are speak so loudly, I can't hear what you say. Like in this case, you can hear what they say. It's in the audiobook too. But they are as good as advertised, and you really do live these values. Part of our process was me just asking you questions about how you designed your living room,

how you raised your kids. Let's see how that connects to commitment. We talked about Andrew's family history of beekeeping, all these things that are a part of your lives. So it wasn't as though we were writing a book that is like, oh, we're sitting here and we're going to tell you, like, from the mountaintop. No, no, these are the struggles you have every day of how to remain committed to things. He just compared us to the Grand Canyon.

Let's go. Thank you. That's all he's ever going to remember. I know. Right. I would say the absolute hardest part of the book for us. I'm really curious, I probably know what the hardest part is for you, which is just us. But the hardest part for us in writing this book was we are so different, so different, very type A,

very not type A. And Andrew would compile hundreds and hundreds of documents and pages and excerpts from Abraham Lincoln speeches and psychological reviews and all these things and just submit them to Jimmy over and over and over and over and over again. like this should be, this should be, this should be, this should be in the book, all of these things. And then we would get on these phone calls for hours at a time where we would talk through, here's my ideas, I think they should be emotional, I think it should like have our voice. Andrew's like, no, it should be statistics and data. And I think the hardest part for us was having so many wild ideas that made no coherent sense

and just being like, here you go. I mean, it would be, I got so excited. It was really a treat. I feel like everyone in here could write a book, and it should be done, I think, because it's a wonderful process to see the world through this lens of, for us, it was commitment. But you're like, OK, sweet.

Everything I'm reading now, everything I'm seeing, every movie I'm watching, I'm thinking about this topic for four years. You can start to kind of Velcro a lot of different, The gravity of that topic just starts pulling everything towards it. So I would be like, Jimmy, I heard this story about Odysseus. He tied himself to the mast of the boat. And there's like the sirens were tempting him trying to pull him away.

And it's like, that's a perfect analogy for the commitment, the focus. And he would be like, okay, we'll talk about. And Sean was like, we're not including this. Andrew won that one. It is mentioned. It is mentioned. I did, yeah. It was one of several that did make.

But for you, what was the hardest part? And you can 1,000% throw us under the bus here, because we were a lot. No, no, no. You know, first of all, it was fun, but the hard part was, here was the hard part. We would get on a call, and we would have a theme for that chapter, right? And I would say, I was like, okay, sir, how to stick to a commitment or something, right? And I would say, all right, Andrew, like, when you've had tough moments in football, or we had tough moments in business, like, what were some of the tools?

or things that you employed, where are some of the stories? Andrew's coin-operated. You put in a quarter, he'll just go, right? It's great. It's actually, it's the best. It's the best as a writer. You're just like, this is fantastic. I don't even need to work that hard, honestly.

I'm just a stenographer. I'm not even a writer. That's the best example I've ever heard. And so that was Andrew. And then you'd get to Sean, and be like, well, Jimmy, you just do it. You just stick with it. And I'd be like, well, can you tell me me?

No, you would just stick with it. Just how hard is that, right? And so with Sean, it was more I had to like, okay, tell me a story about a coach, or was there a specific moment at the Olympics when, that kind of thing. So your styles are very different in that way. And then I think the other thing that was sometimes a little, it was a little tricky, is that, you know, and this is good, it comes out in the book, is that you didn't always agree, right?

Like, you had deep disagreements about these different parts of commitment. And then I think the final thing that was tricky is that, like, I think it at least twice, maybe three times. Andrew started talking about ex-girlfriends and wanted to find a way to include them in the book. And Sean literally just look at him like, are you serious? Are you serious? Are you, you want to include them in the book?

Mistakes were made. Also, just going down memory lane backstage, it occurred to us because we've been in this for so long. But when we started this, I had just found out I was pregnant with our third kid who's now two and a half years old. And we went through so many things, yes. But like, it is crazy just the life transitions that we even went through

as we were writing the book, going from pregnant to postpartum to having toddlers. And now one of our kids has graduated kindergarten. And we are talking about preschools. And it's just crazy how long this has taken. But can't live it's here. There's so much life that happened. I know we were all going through stuff. Yeah.

And it was, yeah. Also, a beautiful but hard moment was there's so many, we say he's a hero in the book. We talk a lot about Andrew's father in the book. Who, yeah. But when we started writing the book, Dad was still here, which was crazy. So we went through that whole journey as we're writing it and rewriting it in different ways to, like, honor him. But also at the time we were already honoring him because he was still hero dad. But it's been a journey.

We were reading the audiobook And I was like, bawling crying I don't know if they included that They probably did I don't know, Megan, does it? I know, I'm here. Did you hear that maybe? I don't know.

Also, the audio book is going to be so comical because I Very similar experience I'm just reading the book And Andrew's like, Woo! What's the best? Andrew's providing his own color commentary

about his reading. Yeah. That was amazing. Can I really say that? Can I just say one thing to say about this is for people who pick up the book, if, look, a lot of people are very busy. If you read nothing else in it, I hope you read the whole thing, but if you read nothing else in it, my favorite part of the book and the part I would like to hand out to human beings around the planet is that we were talking about love as a subject. And it was, I think the first thing I said to you is I was like, all right, we're in like clichéville here, right? We have to be very careful because this

is the most written about subject in human history. You cannot say anything without it sounding like a cliche. So how are we going to attack this? I think the first draft, we just did your tips on love. And all of us were like, no, no, this isn't going to work. Like, this isn't going to work. And then we had this idea that turned out so beautifully where what we had each of you do is write the letter

to the self that you were when you met each other. And it's this incredible selection in the book. And I think, I think, you know, you love all your chapter kids equally, but I love that chapter kid more. Like this chapter on love is amazing. And it's one of the, it's just breathtaking and how beautiful it is. You know what's funny, Sean? What?

I don't think people realize how many of our favorite local spots you square until you actually start paying attention. Seriously, whether it's our neighborhood coffee shop, our little boutiques, or even the farmer's market, you start recognizing it everywhere. And honestly, as customers, it just makes everything feel so seamless. You're not waiting forever to check out. Receipts show up instantly.

Loyalty rewards are easy. It just works. I really am a big fan of Square. And I feel like it all just works probably because the business owners aren't having to juggle a million different systems because Square keeps everything together. Talking payments and inventory to online orders and staffing. So business owners can spend more time actually serving people instead of worrying about the tech. behind the scenes. Which is exactly how it should be. We love supporting small businesses and it's

cool knowing they have tools that actually help them grow without making things more complicated. Support for today's episode comes from Square, the business platform that helps sellers become neighborhood favorites, whether you're gearing up for a busy season or just trying to keep up with everyday demand, Square keeps your business running smoothly. From payments and point of sales to online orders, inventory, staff, and more, all in one place so you can focus on your customers and not your to-do list. Square helps you run your business more smoothly, bringing payments, operations,

and insights together in one place. So you're ready for what's ever next. Right now, listeners can get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at square.com slash go slash e-s-fam. That's S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash go slash E-A-S-T-F-A-M. Get started with Square and build a setup that works the way you do. It was really fun to read that too and like to, finesse that we write about a moment in our dating where we were two months into dating and I was living

in L.A. and Des Moines, Iowa. Don't know how that makes sense. Founcing back and forth. And Andrew was going to school at Vanderbilt and living full-time in Nashville. Go to ours. And we were both like smitten for each other. But every few weeks I was flying into Nashville for like two or three days and we were going on dates. You flew to Des Moines once and we were doing like just like the long distance thing. And two months into dating I had this kind of like overwhelming

idea and thought of I'm never going to be able to give this the best chance at working if I don't like pack up everything and move there. Kind of crazy. You were in the throes

of football and college so like it was completely unfair to even ask you to potentially move to where I was. And so I did. We were both caught in this, what do we do in such a huge transition and huge risk in life. So we write these like letters to ourselves about what we were thinking and how we were feeling.

And it turned out so fun and so beautiful and so perfect to how we were thinking. The funny part there is the night before I moved, Andrew sent me an email. And you could tell he was full on. panicking. And it was like, make sure you're not moving here for me. And I, like, I have a really busy schedule. And, like, I hang out with friends. Like, this is like my, I'm not going to be able to, and it was like laying ground rules. And in true, we were what, 20, 21? Yeah, 21. We were 21. So we're so mature. And then I reply back in true, me fashion, which I'm not proud about. Just like, if you think I am moving there for.

for you then. And it was just like total sass. But we would write letters about that. Yeah. Not our proudest moments, but. By the way, the way we fix the whole voice thing, this is interesting, right? Because we have two authors for this book.

And it was at first, we thought that we would do it sort of like a third person, and it would be both of you, and you try to blend the voice. And then right away, it was like, this is never going to work. You do not sound like each other. And so we actually did it where you hear in each chapter, Andrew has a section, then it might be followed by something to reverse. And then Sean and vice.

That ended up actually being the way that we solved a lot of the column technical difficulties of like you would say something, you would contradict it or have a very different thought, is that we actually ended up having both of you have a very prominent role as individuals in the book, which I was very happy with. I really liked how that turned out because for a while when we were writing it all, and third person, I would be like, I would never say that. And then I'd read the next line, I'd be like, oh, yeah, that's me. And so when we separated it, we actually did the audio book that way, too.

So, like, I read my sections, and then Andrew reads his sections. And then we kind of, like, alternate who reads the third person section, which was fun. I feel like it's timely and necessary to talk about Kobe Bryant, since you're writing a book about him. NBA finals are going on. We were talking, I actually had the privilege of meeting Kobe in 2016 during the U.S. say gymnastics tour. I shook his hand and it was like, I felt like a child.

His hand was so big. It was such an honor. And first of all, I feel like your life, all the books you've written have been a part of, like Michael Lewis is an author who I feel like just injects himself into... He's the goat. He's the Kobe of Narrative Nonfiction.

But he wrote a book about... He was writing a book about Sam Bankman-Fried when the FTX deal went bad. He was writing a book about... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who else was he writing a book about them? Something crazy happened. Steve Jobs, when he?

No, it wasn't Steve Jobs. He's always, he did Lyra's Poker, which was about Wall Street at a time when Wall Street was culturally a phenomenon. And he just, his voice and his talent shown through on the page. He found the people who were betting against credit to fault swaps and did the big short. But he found very specific traders and very specific personalities.

I mean, his gifts, truly, I jokingly, called him the goat. But he is the goat of that kind of work. Like there is nobody better. But it's like some of its luck where it's like, oh, hey, I'm writing a thing about the CEO. And then the company has this crazy scandal happen. I feel like your stories have very much kind of been like that,

where you've followed stories, maybe ours aside. But Kobe is this incredible character. I'm curious to just hear you talk about him and why you're fast. I mean, you're giving me a lot more credit than I deserve. I wrote about a 2,000-year-old dead Roman senator who is not going to find him. viral anytime soon.

Right? Although, stoicism's in the news. He was the original stoic, so that's kind of a thing. But no, I mean, my path to Kobe, my path to any of these projects is just you, I follow my curiosity and I look for an empty space on a book show. Like, on my market research is I go on Amazon to try to buy the book that I want to write. And I didn't see great books about commitment. But the first thing I did after we got off the call was I was like, let's go see if

anybody, if Arthur Brooks has done the book on commitment, then you don't need to be a sad rehash of that. And I just put a premium on just if I want to buy the book and I'm an N of one, there's going to be more people like me that want to have a certain book. And that's how I do it. With the Kobe thing, I just, I think he's a vastly more interesting figure than people know.

Like he was a basketball player, yes, but he was many other things. He was a writer. He won an Oscar. He won an Emmy. He worked on children's books. He was an investor. He was friendly with the most interesting people. He was buddy buddy with George R. Martin, which I was got to kick out of.

like, that's so interesting. But I just found that his, in a way, his otherworldly success at one thing led people to think that he was just this very talented jock. And when I studied his life, I was like, no, this is a nerd. Like this is like a person who would go down rabbit holes about Bruce Lee. He would go down rabbit holes about Taylor Swift.

He would just go. He once, there's a story where he talked to Rob Palenka who was managing the Lakers at that time. And he said, set me up with Heath Ledger. He goes, set me up with Heath Ledger. And Rob was like, why? Like, that's so randomly, you're not, you know. He said, no, because I want to understand

how Heath Ledger got so locked in on the role of the Joker, right? Because he was taking method acting to its extreme. He was like journaling as the Joker, and he would not take the makeup off and stuff. And Kobe wanted to know how somebody would get that locked in to that specific kind of role, just to understand if he could teach him anything,

him anything to play the game better. And so I just found that his curiosity was like, like, I mean, unbelievable. And I wanted to explore that more. So this book is really a lens on Kobe that's very different than just like talking about how many points for game he could put up. Yeah. I love that. Does anyone have any questions for Jimmy before we zoom in on the topic?

Our specific topic that I thought we discussed tonight would be a follow on to, did anyone listen to the interview we did with Sean's parents? Yeah, okay. It was kind of about U-Sports and about commitment, like one, committing for other people and then that broader topic, so it'll be interesting. But any questions for Jimmy before? Okay. Well, I'm in the middle of this Kobe one, so I've got to, like, see that through,

and these books take a while. I am also, again, this is just like speaks to, like, this is a, like, Churchill joke, like The Pudding Has No theme, but I have become really interested in Galileo. And by the way, there's like a Broadway musical debuting in December about Gallo. So somebody beat me to that punch on that one. But I want to do a book on Galileo. There has been one.

It was called Galileo's daughter. It was really interesting. But I think there's a different, I think there's still room in the world for more. Just the short reason why, like I'll give you the short, is there's people who like worry about being canceled. Galileo was put under house arrest for his entire life for saying that the earth was not the sense.

of the universe, that the Earth revolved around the sun. Like, what he had to do to stand up for his beliefs is it defies imagination, right? It's an incredible kind of courage. He was also just like a wildly interesting person, obviously all those things. But I find that like there's a story there that I want to kind of bring out more and tease out more.

Obviously I'm not the only one if Broadway is making a musical about Galileo. That's like I think I'm on to something. I love that. Any other questions? Yeah. Can everybody please give Jimmy the biggest round of applause? Thank you, guys.

Thank you. He's literally the best. And go by every single book he's ever made. Okay, we have to speed through this topic so we can get to questions as well. But, so to go back to the interview that we did, we interviewed my parents, which was so fascinating, about, in a very cheesy way to say it, how to raise an Olympian. And does anybody have kids in here? Yes, kind of. Can't see.

Couple, couple, couple, couple. But it's this idea of how do you produce success. And it was a really fascinating conversation I thought to hear what I lived to see if there was like a strategy behind it or if it was luck or if it was, you know, nature versus nurture and thought it was so cool. Well, the punchline is you can't, like, you can't create an Olympia. Right. You can't just form it.

And I would think a lot of people get confused because I want my kid to play college sports, get a college scholarship. So we had this discussion, and it was so fascinating to see the feedback, which was, and what a unique opportunity is to have a group discussion about this? Because I view all the comments we get online really as a fun part of the conversation. Some can come off a little sharper than others. But I always try to give the benefit of it out, like, oh, they probably just forgot the, exclamation point or and they like you know ended it a little harsher that's what you tell yourself or like they forgot the l-ol at the end or something like yeah yeah but there was some of like oh you wrote this

whole book about commitment and our approach to use sports is we have we do have a six four and two-year-old and they're just starting their athletic career it's so fun and also like humbling I kind of assumed that my boys would like football and they don't care about it at all. No. Our four-year-old wants to ride motocross and he's riding motors cross. Also, the world thought our daughter

would be a gymnast. She is not. And not interested. She's doing rock climbing now. Yeah. She's all, she's getting like shoulder muscles. She's jacked now. It's crazy to see. But we learned through this interview, which is kind of what I've always thought and felt, but

understood that it was truly natural is this idea that you truly have to love something in order for you to be able to work through hardship. And it's actually something we write in the book is how to choose what to commit to and how to find your values and what to kind of zone in on. But to hear my parents firsthand say that they introduced me to all these different sports and activities and I tried so many things and I hated them right off the back. They would put me in soccer and I think I did like three different practices in a couple games.

and you couldn't get me on the field. You would literally see me run in and run out and run in and run out. I just wanted to be in the box and I hated running. And I would try all these things and just be like, no, not going back, not going back. And then all of a sudden they introduced me

into gymnastics and I become addicted to it. It was kind of like a drug. I just, as a child, it's the only place I wanted to spend my time. So much so that my parents go on to talk about in our interview how I got to become so obsessed with it that they would start begging me not to go.

like take a day off. How about we go shopping? How about you play hookie? Let's just watch a movie. I'll make you ice cream. And I'd be like, no, I'm going. Like, I need to go back to gymnastics. I love it.

And so with our kids, we got pushback because we try to do the same thing. With our 6-4 and 2-year-old, we're trying to open them up to the world of opportunities. And our son and our daughter are starting things like soccer or T-ball, and they're instantly like, no. And we think it's fine for them to say,

Okay. You don't need to go back? At this age. At this age. Well, one of the fun parts about the book was writing about some of the paradoxes of commitment. And we don't want people to just like choose a thing and then bash their head against the wall, trying to force it to happen when it probably should have a sunset to it. Another paradox was like, okay, stick with something and you fail at it. What's the best way to like have grace through that situation?

but then I feel like the youth sports conversation was fascinating because you can't commit your child, at least a four-year-old, I don't think, to doing a team support. And I'm just curious to get thoughts on what is the balance of that? Because I played team sports. Sean was an individual sport athlete. And I am all for like, hey, you've got to show up for your team and you made a commitment, so we're finished out this season.

but don't know if there's thoughts on, like, what's the appropriate age or situation where that applies? Anybody have any thoughts? Thoughts, thoughts, thoughts. Anyone brave enough? With older kids, please help mentor us. It would be great. Anyone?

No, take her. Okay, we have thoughts over here. Yes. Oh, Maya, by the way, this is Maya. Round of applause for Maya. Yeah, so my oldest is 14. Right now, he's super into skateboarding. It's the only thing he'll do.

But before that, it was only basketball. And before that, it was only whatever else it was. But I think we moved to the city like four years ago from the suburbs, so they didn't have like a bunch of friends. So we wanted to try to like get them to do things to like meet people. But for him, I think there comes a point where you have to think, like, is this actually, like, making him less confident? If I'm pushing him to do something, he doesn't actually even like.

Whereas he can, like, then he lands some sort of, like, tray flip, kick flip, all the slide or something, and he feels so good about himself. I don't think I, he's the oldest of five. And no one's really... You have five kids? Yeah. Round of applause for her.

Round of applause. But nobody's really interested in, like, anything that the other one is. So team sports aren't something we often explore because it's just there's so many humans always with me. But my husband is a rock climber. And so we're like hoping somebody would love that. So that's kind of where we are. But I think as far as like team sports when they're little like if it harms them in a way that like, not to like baby them or like if it harms them to commit to it where it's like, oh, this is making you feel bad about yourself in a way that's not just simple. Like if it goes deeper, I think you just know it. You recognize in your kid

if you're like, oh, no, like this isn't, mm-mm. Like, you don't, you don't feel good about this, and you don't have to do things that you don't feel good about. You also don't feel good about loading the dishwasher, but you do have to do that because they asked. So, like, there's a difference in that. So, yeah. Yeah. Our thesis with commitment and when it's healthy is, is it leading to growth? And are you going through, like, a struggle that you should adapt? to improve or grow through, or is it, like, unhealthy, and is it stifling or undermining other areas of your life? Anyway, I'll let's say, I feel like our kids are not yet at the, hey, push through this struggle, and I'm going to, there's, like, productive struggle, I feel like,

and that differs from normal struggle, and it's a good challenge, a humbling challenge, to try to get to know your kids or the people in your life well enough to be able to differentiate like oh they're productive struggling and they need to learn something through this versus no this is just straight up a struggle and they're getting crushed.

It's difficult and I don't think we'll ever figure it out the balance and I think we have found firsthand with ours because we have three that they're all wildly different. Our daughter we have to be very cautious with how we foster her. confidence and seeing which, you know, activities really lighten her and, like, make her feel like she has a confidence inside of her and then see the next activity, it kind of like starts

dimming that light or she gets too insecure, she gets too nervous. For us, we can't push that. I don't want to push that on her because it just keeps, like, stripping that of her. But it's, it's been really fascinating to navigate that. We do have a ton of questions now coming in. Okay. Would you like to attack them? Yeah, let's read them. Let's do it. First one coming off of this is what lessons from sports translate most directly to everyday life?

I remember when I was like fresh out of football playing and people were like, oh, there's so many transferable skills that you learn from sports. And I did not feel that way. I was like, I was like, I just got knowing with football. I know nothing other than long snapping. And that's a completely useless skill. skill in the real world. But the farther I've gotten away from it, the more I'm able to see, there is, I mean, being a part of a team is, I think, inherently humbling. And it's really, I think, shaping to realize that, okay, I can't do everything. I'm not going to play every

role well. So what is my role and how can I play that best? And I remember walking into college and feeling like I had no role. And then figuring out that in the wait room, I was actually like really, I was like the guy. And that's why. Thank you for that. That was great. And so it's like I think that's why people ended up wanting me to, you know,

they kind of endorsed me and said, yeah, you're our captain, you're a guy in the wait room. And so like the understanding of a team role is one. I think the discipline is another. We were talking to a couple artists friends of ours, some dancing with the stars folks. And the creative world, I feel like, is very much a, don't give me feedback.

And let me try to keep my idea or identity as pure as possible. I feel like as an athlete, it's completely opposite, where it's like, I need, I am, I need to shape myself towards the team and I'm going to incorporate feedback from my coaches, from my teammates, from people around me to like morph into what I need to be for the team. So I don't know, those are, how is that?

Great. All right, I feel like this is one of those brands that does not really need an introduction anymore. It really doesn't because I've told you guys about a million times. You guys have heard me talk about skims for years and every time I think they can't top themselves, they do. Their new everyday cotton collection has honestly become what I reach for first. Which says a lot because I feel like you're pretty picky when it comes to bras and underwear.

I am. I want something that's comfortable enough to wear all day, but I also don't want to sacrifice support or how it looks under a t-shirt. Usually you have to pick one or the other and somehow they have figured out both. I've been wearing the everyday cotton ultimate bra nonstop. It has the same lift in shape that I already loved from the ultimate bra. but now it's in this super soft fabric. But now it's in the super soft cotton fabric that somehow feels even better.

It's literally one of those bras they put on in the morning and honestly forget you're wearing it because it's that comfortable. And the everyday cotton underwear is the same way. It's soft, stretchy, breathable and doesn't bunch or ride up

and I've actually found myself reaching for over everything else in my door, which is usually just the sign that I need to replace the rest of it. I can vouch for that. Every time we do the laundry, somehow the skims pile is a warm, that's gone first. It's true. Once you find something that's this comfortable, it's hard to

wear anything else. Shop everyday cotton and all of my favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. And after you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select a couple things with Sean and Andrew in the drop-down menu that follows. As Jimmy would say, someone just spoke, your in. Sean, you'll notice this. She'll like give me a side eye every night and like, Andrew, rub it up. Wrap it up. What lessons do you learn, Sean? My favorite lesson, we write about this in the book, that I learned from gymnastics,

and I think gymnastics is one of the only sports that teaches it, is you have to fall on your face, on your butt, a thousand times before you ever succeed at something. And in gymnastics, it's so celebrated. You get celebrated for falling because you get celebrated for attempting all of these skills. And I think you then leave gymnastics and you go into life in a world and a narrative

where people are like, you cannot fail. We live in a scary time where people think failure is crippling and, like, really bad, and it's keeping people from trying new things because you can't start something new without failing at it, and you should be celebrated for that. And if we can, like... Just going to move on from there. Wait, instead of reading, let's get some Q&A.

It doesn't have to be about that specific topic, but I'm curious. Great. They didn't submit these. Oh, okay, great. But if you want to ask them live, if anybody wants to ask these questions live, feel free. I got married May 1st. Congratulations.

Round of applause. Thank you. Six weeks ago in Spain. So I just have questions for like newlyweds. Like what do you guys recommend for newlyweds? We're talking about the kids' subject. You guys seem to handle it seamlessly. I'm very excited to read your book and see everything about.

commitment because obviously it's something, I'm a nurse, he's a fireman in New York City, so it's like a lot of things going to be. Round of applause. I like this. You guys obviously are awesome, so I would just like to hear your advice. Well, congratulations. Thank you. We are not handling it seamlessly. We've been to therapy many times. I recommend that. Our four-year-old was getting stitched up by a plastic surgeon that did a house call for the sixth time. So like, not seamless. Has anybody read that book, The Angst Generation? Anybody? Yeah. It's all about, he says, like, oh, kids aren't going to the hospital. There's no cast or broken bones anymore. I'm looking at our house. I'm like, we, what's going on? We're doing the opposite.

So many stitches. I would say for a newlywed, though, we, one of the books that literally changed our marriage and changed our life early on is called the meaning. The meaning of marriage. That too. Okay. The meaning of marriage, it's a great book. It's by Timothy Keller. Yeah.

But it basically just says, there's a lot of amazing things, but one of my favorite takeaways is over the course of a marriage, you will be married to 12 different people, and it just happens to be the same person. Yeah. And you just have to learn how to evolve and change. change and adapt to that. So it's a beautiful book.

I would say having a solid group of friends or family around you has been so good for us. And you don't want them to be yes men, you know? Like there's going to be disagreements that you have with your spouse and you're going to talk about it to your friends. And they can either say, yeah, you're right. He is a jerk. I can't believe you would do that.

Oh, my gosh. Or they could say, he might have been a little out of line, but your response could also have been refined. And just like to get a little more balanced perspective, I feel like has really allowed me to, I don't know, come back to the table and say, hey, dang, I'm sorry. And I messed up here and I would like to work through this. And so that's one thing.

But excited for it. Yeah. Thank you. So I've been a fan of yours for quite some time. And so when I see you, come up in social media on things. I'm like, oh, what does Sean Johnson have to say? Personally, I've had in the last two years some liver health issues that I've been dealing with, and then all of a sudden I see these commercials for dose, and I'm like, wow, that is really

speaking to me. Like, what was the, what brought you into that product? And, like, are you, do you have any family or personal need for that product? Have you tried it? You know what? I have not, but I've tried quite a lot of the things, but I'm sitting here listening to you, and I'm like, why haven't I tried it yet? It is, first of all, so tasty. I love that stuff. Why did we work with, or like, find dose?

We have kind of found ourselves in a niche that we didn't, you know, mean to find, but we work very much so personally behind the scenes in, like, biohacking, self-optimization, longevity and health. Like, we just love that. We're constantly, especially coming from the athletic world, looking at the best supplements, some of our best friends own supplement companies.

They work in the lab all the time, and they know biochemists, and we're just kind of nerds behind the scenes there. And so we get the opportunity to actually test a lot of products. And something that we feel passionately about sometimes is just kind of helping the misinformation of the supplement world. And so... Like personally, I'm a pharmacist. So I do see a lot of natural products, herbal products, supplements.

So I do see a lot of that firsthand. So then again, back to you, when I keep seeing you come up all the time on my feeds for this dose, I'm like, I've tried literally everything else. Why haven't I tried this? So dose has been fairly new in the past probably year or two. and it came across our desks and we dove into it and found, you know, started talking to the founders and learning about it and think it's a wonderful product.

So it's one that we love. That was right when I, we were doing, we do blood tests like every six months or so, maybe every four months. And my liver numbers were all out of walk too. So we're looking for solutions and we view it as a big responsibility to kind of curate.

products and services and ideas to share with the audience and yeah we've loved those but hope your kid or your liver gets better things things are going well thank you love it you guys crushed it on special forces starting with that anytime you talk about online dating on the podcast like I just feel so much everything you guys say and for it's like older millennials in a world that is so much interview dating, swiping. Like, what would your advice be for people who are ready and want to commit to find that outside of online dating, which absolutely sucks.

Pardon my French. We have said the same thing about online dating. I think it's a beautiful gift to a certain extent because it helps a lot of people get connected. but it can be really hard because you judge a book by its cover so quickly and say, oh, not that one, not that one, not that one. And the world is preaching this idea that if you just swipe long enough, you'll find the perfect person. But you can't know if it's the perfect person by just a picture with a couple of blurbs

that have been mocked up and probably AI generated anymore. The advice I would have, I don't know, that's what's so hard. Where to meet people? Where to meet people? yes please yeah who pooh yeah

that's great this is what she loves this is why she's here so there's anybody any oh my gosh if you're single stand up that would be awesome

that would be awesome you guys are amazing and thank you for everything that you share and tell your fans keep doing it how about we just start telling all the single people

get off the apps and just go go do what you love Yeah. I have more thoughts, but we can talk. Okay. Next one? Here you are here.

Could I ask? Okay. I have been watching you guys for, I think, before you even got married. Like, I fell in love with your dating series before you had kids when you were in that first health. It's just you and Nash. And so I've been following you for so long and love everything you do. And I love seeing you guys become parents. And so you talk so much about how different.

each one is and how exciting every new phase is. So I was wondering, with your three different kids and figuring out their different personalities, how has parenting them sharpened or softened certain characteristics of your own personalities? Wow. I think by the day, all three of our kids are softening me as a whole.

Long way to go. We got a long run. So type A, I'm a control freak. I'm a perfectionist. I'm so intense to a fault. And going into the whole kid phase of life, I thought very naively at the beginning that I could write the script. This is what we're going to do. This is how we're going to discipline.

This is the sleep schedule. This is what they're going to eat. This is what they're going to do. Not as much writing their future for them, but how everything is. is going to happen. And I tried to hang on to that control for so long and lost my mind doing it because I quickly figured out that these little humans are little humans of their own. And they have different preferences and they have different personalities and they are truly different humans than myself and they're not little robots. And so with every kid and every new passion that they

have and hobby, I think I just loosen control and I loosen my grip on it and just try to celebrate them and help them just raise them up and succeed at whatever they're doing rather than thinking I can control their whole future

and their whole life. I'm just in their corner. I'm their cheerleader. I'm here to teach them and help them and guide them and help them stay within the lines, you know, not end up in prison or anything. But I was the second one. you never know.

Our four real he made himself a sleeve of stick on tattoos. And then he cut his own t-shirt to be a cutoff. And I was like, where do you get this from? And yeah, Sean has tattoos. I don't have tattoos.

I don't have a sleeve. I looked at our four-year-old and I was like, actually, that fits you pretty well, buddy. I think that's in your future. I was sitting here listening to you and I've never had this on until now. but for me, the kids have done the exact opposite, where I'm like just along for the ride, you know, for all through life.

And then you have kids, you're like, I should probably be a little more rigid and regimented. But it was so funny, back to the Special Forces thing, Sean's intensity and focus is, yeah, I was injured for a long time is what I was. But it was so helpful. to be on that show because I did not know Sean while she was competing in gymnastics. And to see the natural habitat for that focus and intensity and discipline was so helpful.

Because at home, sometimes I'm like, wow, that is a lot of intensity. And I don't know. But it's like, I'm not even trying to. And then sometimes I'm like, there's none. So we've done enough traveling over the years that I feel like we've pretty much become accidental luggage critics. Seriously.

Airports, road trips, family vacations, we've gone through our fair share of suitcases. And honestly, I never really thought about how easy it could be for someone to get into your luggage until recently. Think about it. Your bag is with airline employees, hotel staff, sitting in the overhead bin. It's out of your sight a lot. Most suitcases just rely on a zipper. and that's not nearly as secure as most people think. That's why we have been so impressed with Noble.

The first thing you'll notice is there's no zipper. It actually closes with latch locks almost like a safe. You can hear it and feel it click shut. And it honestly just gives you a lot more peace of mind when you're traveling. But what sold me is that they didn't stop with security. They actually fixed all the little annoyances that come with flying. There's a built-in charging port so your phone isn't dying while you're waiting at the gate. The front laptop pocket makes TSA.

much easier because you're not digging through your whole bag while everyone waits behind you. And my favorite feature is definitely the flip-out cup holder. So clutch. I know that sounds silly until you're trying to carry a coffee, your boarding pass, your phone, and kids, and somehow pull your suitcase out at the same time. It's one of those things that once you have it, you wonder why every suitcase doesn't have one. Plus, the wheels are super smooth. It rolls effortlessly through the airport and it's built to last. There are over 500,000 of these suitcases out there already. Thousands of flight attendants and pilots use them and every bag comes with a lifetime warranty and a 100-day money-back guarantee. Noble gives you real travel piece of mind, security, design,

and convenience all in one. Head to noble travel.com for up to 46% off your entire order. That's N-O-B-L travel.com for up to 46% off. And after you purchased, they'll ask you where you heard about them. We'd really appreciate it if you'd let them know you found them through our show. Oh, we're good to you, we're good to you. But it was like, oh my gosh, what a beautiful, now I understand. Like, this is an amazing strength that I didn't fully see before. I was more confused by. And so to see it in all its glory was so cool.

And I feel like our marriage has been better as a result of it. I think because he learned and got to see all of my intensity used properly, now at home he can be like, it's coming out. You've got to tone it down. But it was also helpful because sometimes I think, man, I thought I was a pretty good athlete. And, you know, Sean won a gold medal. She was, like, number one in the world.

And I was, like, kind of on the bubble. I wonder why that different. Oh, yeah, there it is. The intensity, now I see. It's right there in front of me. The amount of times on that show I wanted to punch you. You'd be, like, dancing. I'd be like, stop.

Just lock in. Yeah. Anyone else? He said, who's a competitor in my career that I loved or loathed because of competition? I said jokingly, but seriously, it's the same person. My best friend and closest teammate, my whole career is Nostia Luka. She's, yes. She is still my best friend, but I loved her and loathed her.

Because when she did good, I would be like, are you kidding me? Like you and we were we for years for probably six years we would go back and forth every competition first and second and we would swap And I remember we would only see each other probably once a month because we would go back to our hometowns train and then go back to the training center to reconvene and check in And when we would go back to that training center and she would show up with something new and it was good I would be so pissed I'd be like you got to be kidding now I got to go back and I got to go invent something And like, but we were each other's greatest, like, we pushed each other so hard in such a beautiful way. And we would openly voice our frustrations and be like, come on. Now I got to go double my time in the gym, but it was so fun to set the bar for each other.

And it's still that way. I mean, we love it. Love that question. Did we ourselves learn anything new in writing? the book. Do you want to take it? I think we, I think Jimmy

really helped us make sense of all the things that we do in our life pertaining to this topic. I think again, kind of like we were saying, we were throwing so much at the wall for him that we knew meant something to us, but we couldn't

quite make it make sense. And I think to see it so beautifully organized. I think it says something about our brains. Maybe we need help there. That we're just very scattered brain. But I think it showed that we actually have a strategy and a process

to our life, and that it works. And we've really tried to hone in the way we approach life and trying to find purpose and depth. And we actually have a system. I don't know how we got there. Well, I mean, yeah,

we had so many amazing coaches. and teachers along the way. I think I realized not everything is worth committing to, right? And then not every commitment is equal. And then it was really fun to think through just the concept of prioritization and, like, put some thought into how am I priority in the things in my life. For me, I sometimes get hung up on, okay, I want to be healthy. And so I got to, let me like do my workouts and eat healthy.

and that's a big priority of mine. But then you realize, like, I'm putting way more effort into that than I am cultivating my marriage, and that feels out of whack. So then I'm like, in my mind, I have like this graphic of almost like a pyramid of not everything is equal. And if I'm saying this is my highest priority, my schedule should be reflecting that.

Anything I do should be trickling up to that thing. and it was kind of just really helpful to also understand like I opened with when you get involved with something like it is allowing that thing to shape you so like whether it be a friend group or like a hobby or a city or a church or whatever you're like you're kind of hitching your wagon to that to a certain extent so just understanding the implications of that was like a really healthy process. Okay, we have time for one more question. Hi, I'm really happy you were talking about female friendship and I wanted to ask if you feel like marriage, committing to marriage, competes with committing to your female friends or just your friends in general and if the book

kind of explores how do we not make our friendships kind of like it's merit, it's kids, then marriage and then family and then I feel like as a mother you know that was something that always fell to the wayside and it makes me sad so we actually built our own family based on friendship where like that is our priority and the romance's third priority so I was curious your thoughts on that is that the way you want it to be is that what you're saying yeah so we just our family like we raise our kids as two female best friends Oh, fun. Yeah, really cool.

I think it's exactly what you just said, though. I don't think there's one system or one protocol or one size fits all. And I think what we actually tried to explain in the book is not how to do it right, but how to figure out what your system works best for you is. Does that make sense? Yeah. So I remember we did this three-day intensive with one of the coolest, wisest mentors ever and we lay out all his stuff in our book and he took us through this

exercise where we figure out what our what our personal values are and not just like being kind having respect but like what your operating system is what makes you unique to other people for us our five family values or like for us too that makes us just uniquely our own is togetherness so we value like our being together as a family playfulness um faithfulness curiosity and generous stewardship yeah and after we found our values and kind of nailed those down where we looked at those we're like that actually it sounds right it's like what we value so much he had us do this exercise where we write out a week and we write down what a perfect week would look like so you have to fill in things that you can't move your work schedules if you have kids like kids drop off schedules or kids school schedules

and then any free time, you start pocketing in things that fill you up. And for you, it sounds like it might be friends. And that might prioritize in your life higher than someone else's marriage might. But if that's what works for you, that's great. Yeah, it's just helpful to have the awareness of that, to explicitly state it, to have a teammate in that who's, like, holding you accountable to that. the values thing is really is really helpful and I think it's like we try to lay out the system as clear as possible in that but it was when I think about those five values of our family it's like

okay togetherness why is that a thing for us well anytime we take vacations we're not going to be doing like these crazy friend vacations we're going to be going just as us five and we're going to be spending as much time around the dinner table with us five as possible and we're going to maybe do less activities with the kids because we don't want to take this kid here and then be shuttling this other kid here and that be fracturing our togetherness. Anyway, so those five words grouped together. When they're all blended together, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's what makes in East and East. That's what makes our kids different than anyone else.

And it's very much like a reflective inherent thing, whereas I know we have like CEOs in here, business people. I think like business values, organizational, like occupational values are more aspirational, like what you're aiming for. And it's, those are different in that sense. But then when you learn how to articulate what actually matters to you, what those non-negotiables are or the things that when you do them make you feel like your cup has been filled for the week, when you learn to articulate those and then protect them and use them as a

filtering system for like the options that you're shown on a daily basis or in your life. For us, if we're given options now where it's like, oh, Andrew can go to this city and do a really cool experience and I can be home with the kids. If our family's separated, we know that's not going to make us feel great even though it's a cool opportunity. And so if you just learn what your filtering system is, it actually start, you start protecting that and building the things. Like you said, you felt sad that you didn't have your friends.

You feel great when you have your friends. That's something you should protect. It's just learning how to weed out all the noise of other people's perfection and other people's life that they post everywhere else. Thank you. We brought some great questions tonight. Is that all that? Is that it?

That is. Thank you guys so much for coming. This has been a blast. Great questions. Great entertainment. Thank you, Jimmy. Thank you, Megan. Thank you, City Winery.

squad. Thank you all. And we'll see some of you here shortly. Thank you, guys. Hope you all have a great night. Go Nix.