Crime Fix with Angenette Levy - Lori Vallow Faces Off With Lead Detective In Attempted Murder Trial

Episode Date: June 10, 2025

Lori Vallow Daybell cross-examined the lead detective in her trial for the attempted murder of Brandon Boudreaux. Gilbert Police Detective Ryan Pillar testified about the evidence and his discussions with Brandon. Then Lori got her chance to cross-examine Detective Pillar. Law&Crime’s Angenette Levy goes through the testimony in this episode of Crime Fix — a daily show covering the biggest stories in crime.PLEASE SUPPORT THE SHOW:Download the FREE Upside App at https://upside.app.link/crimefix to get an extra 25 cents back for every gallon on your first tank of gas.Host:Angenette Levy  https://twitter.com/Angenette5Producer:Jordan ChaconCRIME FIX PRODUCTION:Head of Social Media, YouTube - Bobby SzokeSocial Media Management - Vanessa BeinVideo Editing - Daniel CamachoGuest Booking - Alyssa Fisher & Diane KayeSTAY UP-TO-DATE WITH THE LAW&CRIME NETWORK:Watch Law&Crime Network on YouTubeTV: https://bit.ly/3td2e3yWhere To Watch Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3akxLK5Sign Up For Law&Crime's Daily Newsletter: https://bit.ly/LawandCrimeNewsletterRead Fascinating Articles From Law&Crime Network: https://bit.ly/3td2IqoLAW&CRIME NETWORK SOCIAL MEDIA:Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lawandcrime/Twitter: https://twitter.com/LawCrimeNetworkFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/lawandcrimeTwitch: https://www.twitch.tv/lawandcrimenetworkTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@lawandcrimeSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge all episodes of this law and crimes series ad free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. And what color did Mr. Boudreaux say the Jeep was when he was with Officer Mary Ann Robb? Laurie Vallow-Daybell cross-examining the lead detective in the attempted murder of Brandon Boudreaux. So did you not think it would be a good idea to do whatever kind of testing you could find out to find out what kind of gun this was? I take a look at his testimony and how court was delayed as the second week of the doomsday cult mom's last trial begins. I'm Anjanette Levy, and this is Crime Fixed. next. Hey there, before I get into the very latest on Lori Velo's trial, I have something for

all of our viewers who love body cam videos and police content. You're going to love it. On Patrol Live is now on YouTube. If you've never seen On Patrol Live, you are really missing out on some of the most wild and real police action out there. They follow police departments across the country every weekend with photographers riding along with police officers. There's no body cams involved. This is real in-your-face law enforcement caught on camera live in the moment.

Now they're partnering with Law & Crime to bring their unique content to YouTube. So head over to On Patrol Live's channel and subscribe to make sure you don't miss the action starting on Monday, June 16th. You can find that channel link in the description. Now back to the second week of Lori Velodebell's trial in Arizona. Week two is in full swing after a drama-filled first week. This is Lori's final trial. She's accused of conspiring with her late brother, Alex Cox,

to murder Brandon Boudreau, the ex-husband of her niece, Melanie Boudreau-Polowski. Prosecutors in Maricopa County, Arizona, say Alex Cox drove Lori's Jeep Wrangler to Arizona from Idaho in October of 2019, and took a shot at Brandon outside of his rental home and that the only person who knew the address to that home was Melanie. Brandon testified about the shooting last week.

When you were coming in and sort of slowing down, what do you see happen? So as I let the car kind of coast in, the back window pops up. I see a muzzle. I hear a bang and you know your fight or flight kicks in at that point. So for me, I just immediately thought and my window shattered. All that happened in the snap of a finger. And so I just immediately thought someone's shooting at me because I saw a muzzle. So I hit the accelerator and I just went straight.

I no longer was planning on turning into my driveway to let the garage door trigger. And then of course, Laurie did not miss her chance to cross-examine Brandon. But I was not the focus of that entire argument, is that correct? My focus was my family, my wife and my children. I love them and I didn't want them to go through pain. Is that what you spent all those hours arguing? Yeah, because I love them and I wanted to work through things with my wife, yes. I didn't spend it for any other reason. And during this argument, there were several issues that you discussed, is that correct? Correct.

Okay. And one of those issues was Melanie informing you of text messages that she had viewed? I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. Is one of those issues a video of you on Facebook dancing at the Pink Pony that Melanie showed you? I object to relevance to 404B evidence and 403. Sustained. Did Melanie show you a video of yourself during that argument?

Sustained. You told Detective Piller that Melanie had, that someone had convinced Melanie that you were gay? I can't remember if I specifically told him that someone had convinced Melanie that I was gay, I would have to review the conversation I had with him to be able to say for certain that's how I worded it. Okay.

Do you recall telling him that she has a friend named Lori, Melanie? I did not say she has a friend named Lori. No, you didn't would you like to review the would you like to look at your interview? I I said she's a recollection. I said that she has an aunt named Lori Would you like to review this to refresh your recollection? Sure, okay Hey, I want to tell you about a free app that I've tried It's called upside and it will give you cash back on things you use every day like gas, groceries and takeout.

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to get an extra 25 cents back on every gallon on your first tank of gas. That's promo code crimefix for an extra 25 cents back on your first gallon of gas. So Laurie was asking Brandon a lot of questions where it sounded like she was trying to get Brandon to say, Hey, she's like, she was a good person. I really liked her. That led to Laurie getting booted out of the courtroom by Judge Borowski. Take a look. The state, the defendant and advisory council were at the bench when we had that short minute, one minute sidebar. But I don't know if anyone wants to supplement the record on that. Ms. Cave? Just your honor that again the state did raise any issue

of character evidence under 404A and 405 that if the defendant opens the door and tries to advise that she's a good person, a peaceful person, a kind person, a loving person, any of those other types of things that we believe that would allow us under 405 to then bring in specific acts such as the murder of her children, her husband, and her current husband's wife. Which would also be 404B that they withdrew? No, it would be 405.

Yeah, they withdrew it. But if you bring up 404 that you're Then all 404B is in, or do we get a hearing on what 404B can come in? If I open the door, do I get a hearing? We stop trial and I get a hearing on... Stop. We'll have a very short hearing, okay? If you're going to introduce how you have great character and good character, we're gonna have a short hearing on what evidence that they can bring in to rebut that character, which could include being convicted of four murders.

And would you like... Talk to your advisory council during the break and... You don't need to yell at me either. I'm yelling at you, okay? Yeah, you are. And you do not need to be that way. I'm very courteous. Okay, figure out.

Figure out. I'm very courteous to you. Figure out. No, you have been nothing near courteous to me during the course of these proceedings. Talk with your advisory council about the rest of your cross. We're going to resume in 15 minutes. So big, big time drama, big time drama. Then the cross examination by Laurie of Brandon resumed. Brandon, how many communications since October 2nd until now have you had with Detective Piller? I have no idea.

How many phone calls would you say over the last five and a half years? No idea. More than 10? I'm sure more than 10, yes. More than 20? Like I said, I couldn't testify to the exact number, so I have no idea.

A lot? I talked to him about my case. More than 100? I honestly can't tell you. I have never looked to try and figure it out. OK. How about text message communications with you and Detective Piller?

How many times have you communicated with him through text message in the last 5 and a half years I've never counted so I don't know more than ten I'm sure it's more than ten more than a hundred that I can't testify to I don't know how about emails to detective pillar how many email communications have you had with him in the last five years? I can't testify, I don't know. More than 10?

That I'm not sure, I couldn't even tell you if I had more than 10. I spoke with Drop Dead Serious podcast producer, Lindsay Howler, who was in the courtroom for Brandon Boudreaux's testimony. But what I found interesting, Laurie is basically trying to say that he staged his own shooting.

That's what she basically suggested in her opening. Like, he has a gun, you know, like, and he said this stuff on the 911 call and, you know, and he's trying to, like, frame Melanie for this and frame her. I mean, that's, that was what I got from her opening statement. So what did you make of Brandon's testimony and how was the jury reacting to it? So the jury was very attentive. They were listening along. You know, Brandon has a compelling story. He went through everything and he's a very credible witness. And you could tell it was it was emotional for him to even

recount those things. He was truly scared for his life. As far as Lori saying that Brandon and the state and his private investigators, you know, made up this huge conspiracy, just blamed Lori. Obviously, that really has no basis in fact. But we'll see. And it's also interesting, we're hearing a lot more about Brandon's ex-wife, Melanie, now Klawowski, who is Laurie's niece. And they really have more of a mother-daughter relationship. So it's going to be really interesting to see how that pans out as well. Yeah, because she's a co-conspirator. However, she's not been charged.

And I kind of, you know, there's a lot there. So there's a lot of smoke. So I'm kind of- There's a lot of smoke. And that's been a question that's been on everyone's mind for years now, especially after Chad's trial. Chad Daybell, back in April and May of 2024, we actually heard some recorded phone calls that Melanie's now husband,

Ian Palosky, recorded of Melanie speaking to Lori and Chad, where they're very much in sync with this. Rexburg is the new Jerusalem. We're here. Detective Hermosillo is dark. He won't let up. They want to find the kids. So it was pretty damning. And so now we're seeing Melanie brought up in this case. And she seems to be the one that would have the motive, although, like you said, she is not charged.

Again, Melanie Polowski has not been charged with any crime, but she has been called a co-conspirator. Now we're in week two, and we're getting into the evidence. Jurors have seen photos of the Jeep. The lead agent for the shooting, police officer Ryan Piller, took the stand last Friday and told the jury about his encounter with the victim, Brandon Mudrow.

This interview with Brandon Mudrow, did you talk to him about who he thought might want to kill him? Yes. And did Brandon provide you with the names of some people he thought might want to kill him? He did. And what names did he provide to you? He provided the names of Lori Vallow and the name of Alex Cox. Did he advise you that there had been an incident that occurred

in Chandler in July of 2019, and that was some of the reason for him identifying them? Yes. During your interview with Brandon, let me ask you this. Prior to talking with Brandon, when you were briefed, did you receive information regarding the vehicle that had been identified by Brandon as being used that

was shot at him? Yes, I was provided a description of the vehicle that shot at him, or where the shot came from. When you spoke with Brandon in your car, was he consistent with giving you the same information? Yes. Did he describe the Jeep for you? He did. Did he provide you the information about what state the license plate was from?

Yes. Did he talk to you about whether or not it had a rear tire on it? He did. Did he talk to you about where it was parked? He did. Did he talk to you about what he saw happen right before the shooting? Yes. Was anything that he had provided to you different than what you had learned in the briefing as to that area? No. While on the stand, Officer Piller elaborates more

on the findings of the investigation and the whereabouts of their number one suspect, Laurie Vallow. Did you learn during this investigation that Laurie Vallow had moved to Rexburg, Idaho? Yes. Did you learn in this investigation that Alex Cox had moved to Idaho? Yes. Did you learn in this investigation that Alex Cox had moved to Idaho?

Yes. So in October then, Melanie joined them in Idaho? Yes. On October 16th, did you learn that a license plate reader had recorded Lori Vallow's jeep with that Texas plate LWD 0997 on the I-40 on October 1st of 2019? Yes. Was that located, that reader located in Holbrook, Arizona? Yes. How long before the shooting of Brandon was Lori Vallow's jeep seen on that I-40 heading towards Phoenix? That jeep was seen on the I-40 heading towards Phoenix approximately 26 hours

and 30 minutes prior to the shooting at Brandon Boudreau. Now there was a break in Detective Piller's testimony. Other witnesses took the stand, including a man who testified that he put tint on the windows of Laurie's Jeep for Alex Cox. Detective Pillers' testimony then picked up Monday, and Laurie got to cross-examine him. And what color did Mr. Boudreaux say the Jeep was when he was with Officer Robb, he described it as a green colored Jeep. And what was the color of the Jeep that was seen by witnesses in the neighborhood? It was referred to as different colors. What I surmised it to be was a darker colored Jeep Wrangler.

So did you hear dark blue? I do not remember specifically hearing dark blue but I know that color has been brought up. And is it your understanding that the color that Brandon pulled up on his phone to show the officers was camo green. Is that correct? That's what was discussed by Officer Rob, but I was not privy to that actual conversation and there was no supplement that I saw that indicated that. So as the case agent,

you did not watch the body cam with Officer Rob? I watched all body worn camera from this case. The body camera video seems to be very, very important to Laurie, along with the different descriptions of the color of the Jeep by witnesses. And so in the body cam, you did not see him actually show it to Officer Rob and Officer Bullock that were standing there? Not that I recall, but again, I watched many hours of body-worn camera footage, but I do not recall that specifically.

No, I do not recall that specifically. No, I do not. Would you like to see it to refresh your recollection? If we want to take the time to watch that. But I'm also not disagreeing that it very well may have been said or shown to be a camo green. So when is the first time you wrote in all of your reports that it was a gray Jeep? So where did you get, where did you glean that information that

the Jeep was gray? The gray Jeep came about from my contact with the Chandler Police Department on October 9th. So Brandon never told you it was a gray Jeep, is that correct? I do not recall him ever describing it in the initial context as a gray Jeep, no. And of the neighbors ever called it a gray Jeep also, is that correct? Not to me, no. Okay. Then Lori questioned Detective Piller about the trajectory or at least his opinion of the trajectory of the bullet that's the angle from

which it would have been fired. In your estimation detective Piller how far was the jeep's when the supposed shot was taken? With the information provided by Mr. Boudreaux and the neighbors describing where this jeep was located, where I believe at least at the time where that glass shard might be related in the roadway, I would guess, I don't want to guess because we didn't measure and I don't know exactly where the individual was in the Jeep. What I can say is it was within a few feet and when I say a few feet I'm going to say 10 to 20 feet of a moving vehicle approaching where the projectile hit the Tesla.

Okay, and why were no measurements taken? We didn't know exactly where that Jeep was located. We had an idea of where it was parked but we didn't have an exact location for that Jeep, a specific spot. If it was parked nose to nose with that white van, kind of know exactly where it was parked. We have a good idea of where it was at, absolutely. But no measurements were taken? No measurements, no ma'am. And what measures were taken to decide the trajectory?

I don't know how to answer that question. Okay, where did the Gilbert Police Department ever decide on what the trajectory actually was? No. So were there tests done to find the trajectory? No, because again, we don't have the exact placement, the height, the angle in which the projectile came from and we can't determine that with just the hole in the Tesla that was since moved prior to police arrival. Then Lori pushed Detective Piller a little more on the topic. She also seemed

annoyed that he didn't have an answer. What was your determination of what kind of bullet would make a hole that large? I don't have any ammunition training or certifications to provide that answer accurately. But from your own shooting experience would you have thought that was a rifle or a handgun? In my experience and training again I don't have it in trajectory or what particular bullets will do. What I do know is there's dozens of styles of bullets whether it be a hollow point, full metal jacket, a frangible piece of ammunition. There's dozens of types of ammunition that are made, both of which can be utilized by

a handgun or a rifle. The information I was provided at least seems that a rifle was the most reasonable weapon that was utilized to shoot at Mr. Bedroskar, but to give an answer for the type of ammunition, whether it be coming from a specific weapon, I cannot answer that. Okay, and you're the case agent, is that correct? Yes. This is your investigation, is that correct? Yes. So did you not think it would be a good idea to do whatever kind of testing you could find out to find out what kind of gun this was?

There would be no way to find out what kind of gun this was. There's no way to determine if it was a rifle versus a handgun? No. There's no way to determine whether it was taken from 30 feet or 10 feet? No. There's no way to determine if it was going up or going down? No. There's no way to determine if it was going left or it was going right?

There's evidence to show that it was going eastbound while the vehicle was traveling westbound. Now, Laurie sort of suggested in her opening statement that either Melanie might have had something to do with this or that Brandon could have staged the shooting since he owned guns. Then Laurie's line of questioning turned to gunshot residue testing. So having been a case agent hundreds of times. Yes ma'am.

I'm sure you've dealt with lots of gunshots. Is that correct? Not all cases were related to gunshots or homicides, but I have investigated other shootings and other violent crimes. Have you ever swabbed someone's hands for gunshot residue? Swabbed? No. Collected GSR?

Yes. From someone's hands? Yes. Because that's pretty typical, right? In a gun case where a gun has been fired? Typical? I don't know if that's an appropriate word. Is it a tool or a evidence collection technique

that can be utilized? Absolutely. OK. And so you're not aware the antimony, barium, and lead all three have to be together for it to be gunshot residue? I can't object again. There's an expert that will testify to this. It's sustained. He said he doesn't know this. Okay. She also questioned Detective Piller about his interactions with Brandon Boudreau's

private investigator. Detective Piller, did you ever receive any information from Rich Robertson, the private detective Brandon Boudreau hired? I did not. Did you ever speak to him personally? I think I may have had a phone call early on, essentially explaining that he was going to do a PI thing, but he understood that there's certain legalities when it comes to criminal investigation over a civil investigation.

When you say early on, when do you mean specifically? I couldn't give you a date, but I believe I had a phone conversation with him. But it was not lengthy and I don't remember communicating much after that, if at all. So in October, just after October 2nd? Yeah, it would have to be after October 2nd, 2019. And was it your understanding from that conversation that Brandon hired him to track Melanie Sustained What is the legal objection?

Say it's not relevant and it also could open the door to something you don't want to open. So you did not email with him or text with him, Rich Robinson? No, not that I remember. And he didn't send you any kind of information on the case? No, not that I remember. Okay. Did Brandon ever convey that he was frustrated with the way the investigation was going? I'm going to object to hearsay relevance. Sustained. But one point Lori really seemed interested in was how many times her license plate was picked up in Arizona around the time of the shooting. You said one was in Holbrook? One was in Holbrook. That's the one that's,

I know is presented. The other ones didn't have independent recollection of. They are documented in the police report. So you don't have any documented in Gilbert, is that correct? There were no LPR hits in Gilbert, I can tell you that. None in Mesa? None in Mesa. None in Phoenix? Not that I can recall. None in Scottsdale? None in Scottsdale. None in Tempe? None in local cities. They were all highway cameras that were involved in this. Now where Lori Valladaybell is going with all of this we'll find out in her closing argument, but she's saying she had nothing to do with this. In the end, the jury will have the final say. And that's it for this episode of Crime Fix. I'm Ann Jeanette Levy. Thanks so much for being with me.

I'll see you back here next time.