Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Missing Women, Philly House Of Horrors! Dissolving Bodies & Snuff Films
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00:26Body bags with Joseph Scott Moore.I've let on in the past that I have worked serial homicides.It's not really a lot different for me, at least, than working any other kind of homicide,except for recognized patterns.And scientifically, you know, those are things that we look for in science anyway.But, you know, there is a bit of, I don't know, I think, A lawn, if you will,people that involve themselves in serial killings and that it's something very, very special,and that it gets all of the ink slung about it.
01:15But at the end of the day, you're still talking about one human being taking a life of another.Now, over the course of my career in the field, though I did work multiple serial homicides,you know, I never worked one where,the deathsnecessarily took place inone location where bodies mayhave been processed and I meanthat on like the dark side
01:44and everythinghappened within the environmentand maybe even the bodies were containedthere and never worked on this.I never did, you know.But todayon body bags,we're actually going to dig
02:00into a case that hasrecently explodedin the news.And my friends, let me tell you,when I say we are at the beginning of this thing,we are literally at the beginning of this thing.So today, my co-host, brother Dave and I,we're going to do our best to be your tour guide along the way.
02:25Thinking about those events that have happenedat the so-called House of Horrors in Philly.I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is bodybacks.Brother Dave, there are certain things, you know, that you do along your career.It doesn't matter what kind of career it is.If it's like a career where you're really focused on, like, professional achievement and all these sorts of things,there are certain little road stops along the way that you want to make.I think guys in particular, you know, we kind of have that mapped out in our brain.
03:04That's where our brains work.I want to work here.I want to do this.I want to have experience with this.It's no different in death investigation.You know, you want to catch.And I've actually had people say this to me.And I had many times I've had to pause and question my own sanity.
03:20And this is why?Because I'd be having a conversation with someone.And they would throw up to me about some gruesome case that they had seen on the news or even something that, you know, one of my students would come up with.And they would say, this is awful.And I would say, wow, I wish I could, I wish I'd worked that case.I wish I'd caught it.And they kind of, they kind of recoil when you say that.Like, what do you mean?
03:47It's like, I'm not a normal person.At dinner parties, people will come up to Joe and say,what is the most disgusting thing you've ever seen?I mean, you're sitting there over, you know, shrimp and prime rib.And you want me to tell you right now or you want to wait until after.I mean, they want it now.I've been there with him in a group where they're,They're hinting at it.
04:07They are.You ever notice that?They kind of, you know, people like to rub up against it a little bit, you know, and they don't know how to approach you.It's a weird, it's a weird kind of awkwardness.Now, I got to tell you, I got to tell you, I think that because we have seen such an explosion in true crime, people are not as hesitant as they once were.And I know that you experienced this on the media side, too, don't you?Oh my gosh. The one thing that we try to do, and Joe and I both came to this on our own paths, but it was that we can't forget the victims.The victims always get forgotten and we remember the sickos. We remember the co-workers and the Bundys. We remember them, but we can't name their victims. And I'm tired of that.
04:58And so from the very first time I was ever on the Nancy Gray show, my thought was, I have to give a voice to this night.year old child who was run to death by her grandmother. I have to do that.Horrible. Forrible case. Oh yeah. And that was my whole intention then and it continues to be now.And I actually find some fulfillment in providing a voice, you know? And that's something that you'vetaught me on this side of things. Because to be honest with you, Joe, a lot of times crimes get solvedand we don't know why. We don't know how they solved it. And by the way, the one we're going totalk about today, Joe said we're at the beginning.We don't even know how many victims we have yet.
05:38I've got four names, only two that I'm sure of right this minute, as we begin this story.It's out of Philadelphia.And it's from an area inside of Philadelphia, a lot of cities have areas that have a name.And this one is the Olney neighborhood, only O-L-N-E-Y.And so I was trying to find a way that I can identify with it because I'm not from there.and I don't want to offend anybodygetting it wrong,but the only house murders
06:08is the only way I could come up withbeing able to identifywho we're talking about here.And we have years,maybe decades,of some of the most horrificactivitiesthat could have possibly taken place
06:23and we're talking aboutwomen who have been missing.And, well,I'll tell you, you know what,Joe, you know how we always do the, this story begins with a welfare check on a person.Right.All right.How many times do we see now, if you guys have a guilty pleasure like I do of watching
06:45police cam videos where people comment about people going crazy?Yeah.You know, and now it's like you get pulled over for doing 95 and a 35 and I want to see your supervisor.Yeah.Why you went to down?Give me your driver's license and your registration.I, God.Joe, I'm ready to go through the screen.
07:03and take somebody down to DMB and say, if you don't teach these people, if the cop says,give me your license and registration, you give them your license and registration, you don'troll up the window.No, it's pretty simple stuff.It is.But, you know, life gets very complicated for whatever reason.I don't understand.For some people.
07:19Yeah, yeah.I guess they have too much leisure time on their hands.I have no explanation for it, but it does happen like that.I will tell you, though, you know, when Noah say, if you really want to win a fight, be aggressive,you know?Yeah.As I said, but I just have a thing.about when a dude has a gun and a badge, if I have a chance to leave there without wearing bracelets,
07:39I'm going to do that.Good idea.Here's what happened.In this case, Joe, we have Eugene Horch.Eugene's 44 years old.He's at a very specific location in Philadelphia, Independence Mall 6 of the market.That's where he's sitting in his BMW and there's a woman in there.Somebody from the Park Service that's walking around Independence Hall, just making sure nothing's going
08:02wrong. Here's a woman say, you're going to hurt me. Now, if a woman cries that out inside of avehicle, it's going to draw the attention. Yes, it will. And it did. And when the police came to check,well, we've got Eugene Horsh. And Eugene Horsch has a bit of a record. And most of it fairly recently.By the way, this happened June 19th, Joe. In the last 12 months, Eugene Horsh.has been in the bullseye of Philadelphia PD, drug charges and a lot of other things that have beenhe's been popped for. So when they pull him up, oh, wait a minute, this guy's been arrested a lot lately,and now we've got a woman saying, hey, you're going to hurt me. We're going to have to check the car.And what do they find, Joe? Do they find probable cause to put the guy in handcuffs?
08:56You know, they do. And that's where this story explodes.It's from the inside of a BMW, Independence Hall, where a woman says, you're going to hurt me,and a park ranger says, I'm going to find out what's going on.Eugene Horish has not been out of jail since.Yeah.Inside the BMW, they had weapons, 38 caliber revolver, torus 40-cow, semi-automatic pistol,which you're going to have to explain what that is to me because I don't really know.And the problem with these is you have a guy who's got criminal problems and the serial numbers have been.
09:32been, they didn't say like they were scrubbed, but they were obliterated.They were obliterated, yeah.But on top of that, Joe, we got a fake DEA credential, switchblade knives, which those areillegal, and then we got drugs.We're going to throw in a little cocaine, a little fentanyl, some marijuana.But here's the kicker, Joe.Along with the fake DEA credentials and other things, this lady who said, you're going to hurtme? Well, she hands an ID over to law enforcement. And it's the ID for Blair Tanzelli.
10:12Blair Tanzelli has been missing since 2022. And the picture on this ID is not Blair Tanzelli.It's this woman. So you got a fake ID in her hands using the identification of a woman who's missing.Yeah, yeah. Yeah, this story, this story takes a really dark turn very quickly. And I want to go back. First off, big shout out to all my friends in Philly. I love Philly. I love going up there, and particularly the area where this occurred. You know, me, I love, I love history. One of my favorite places to go in this area was the site of Benjamin Franklin's old home. And they had a spot marked on the ground that said, Benjamin Franklin's old home. And they had a spot marked on the ground that said,Benjamin Franklin's privy.And it's where the outhouse dumped into, and they had an entire glass case of everythingthat had been recovered out of his privy.They went down there.There was like China dolls and broken crockery, spoons, there were coins, all kinds of
11:24stuff that had been, you know, because back then they would just dump things there.But, you know, when I think about this, if this is...You don't mean the appropriate term.Yeah, well, I didn't mean it like that.Wow.Place, place discard.We'll use that one.Do they still have Ben Franklin's tomb where you're like the, you know, in the cemetery where you have like the, they have the cement that covers his whole length of the castle.
11:49I think so.Yeah, if I remember correctly, I'm having a hard time recalling it.I get Philly and Boston confused.No offense to our friends in Boston.And again, one of my favorite cities to visit because I love history.but I visited the graveyards in Boston as well.I don't know that I actually visited them in Philly.I went to a lot of the history,
12:07and we took my son there.But, you know, the thing about it is it's fascinating that you've got a Parks police officer that's doing that.That's a federal police officer, just so that everyone understands.Lots of power.Yeah, more than folks realize, if you screw up at a, at a site that is,policed by the feds.You're in a completely different realm at that point in time.And then to couple that with possession of narcotics and a firearm adjacent to this area,
12:42and not only does she have an ID that ties back to a missing woman,here is my kicker to you.is the fact that he's in possession of DEA credentials.Now, if you want to get on the map really quick with the feds, try that on for size.And they are going to look up your tailpipe, you know, with a magnifying glass.You know, the one thing I didn't add, Joe, is that on this fake DEA credentials, it carried a picture of Horsch and had a name.Eugene Frederick Steiner.Well,
13:29yeah, andyou know, here's another problem.It's one thing to be in possessionof a federal ID.Say you find one,you're walking around with itand you're presenting yourself,and you haven't taken it and modified it at all.
13:46But when you get into it and you modifyor present yourselfwith an image,you put a fake name,on it and it's a DEA credential.First off, I want to know specifically why is it DEA?Well, I'll put it to you this way.And here's just one of the possibilities so that our friends understand.
14:08I've worked with the DEA on cases, DEA, and I've worked with the DA, but with the DEA,I've worked on cases with them over the years, which, you know, there were homicides involvedand a lot of stuff.the first thing I thought, I got to tell you when I heard this,I wonder if this guy's shaking down drug dealers.Because if you walk up to somebody on the street and you badge them,you've got a federal ID and you're armed.You know, he's carrying a semi-automatic, or he's in possession of a revolver,
14:46a semi-automatic taurus.I think you said it was a 40-K.Yeah, what's that like?Is that a big gun?Yeah, it's, well, the Taurus is Brazilian made.This is a model of a Glock.Taurus, traditionally, it's not necessarily the same all the time,is a Brazilian-made manufacturer,
15:08and they use some of the same templates that Beretta uses in Italy.So you'll see, like, traditionally, you would see a Beretta,what is it?92,which a model 90,I think it's model 92,which actually became our service weapon.Our service guys carried Barretta M1,
15:32transitioned from the 45 caliber.And you could find a Taurus that was,that looked exactly like it.And there's connectivity between those two companies.I really don't understand it.But suffice it to say,it's a semi-automatic weapon.And we've recently talked about a case involving semi-autos, but just reflectively, you know, you pull the trigger until it goes click, right? And so, or the slide is locked back and you can fire no longer. That's more accurate to say. And then with a revolver, that is what some people refer to as a wheel gun. So it's just going to rotate like this. 38 caliber. It's a rather robust, medium-sized caliber that you could carry.
16:18it actually, and if I can go one step further with this,that semi-automatic weapon sounds like a weapon you would carry on your hip.And if he's trying to play cop, guess what cops carry on their ankles?A compact 38 revolver, and that's called the backup weapon,so that if you run out of ammo, you lose your weapon in a fight,or it fell out of the holster, you can always have a backup,you can pull out, which is that 38 caliber revolver,because sometimes they can be very, very compact.
16:50I've owned a couple of them, including compact 357s as well.But yeah, so that's, I see this picture.You know, now this gentleman, and I want to say this from the top,this guy has not been charged with homicide as of this recording.However, Dave, what a tale we have to tell following his arrestbecause I got to tell you, you talk about opening up.up a dark chapter in Olney neighborhood of Philadelphia? Hang on to your hats, folks.The new Red Bull Dragonberry and Tropicberry Energizers now at McDonald's, made with freeze
17:38dried fruit and an electric burst of flavor. The all-new Red Bull Energizers, now at McDonald's.This product may not be right for you. High in caffeine, details at McDonald's.C.A.at participating Canadian restaurants excluding Quebec.So Brother Dave, you know, we got this guy hanging out at the park with this woman who's got a fake ID and, you know, she's making this proclamation that you're hurting me or you're going to hurt me.Where does this lead us at this point, Tom?Well, you know, I'm glad you mentioned about the federal cops or, you know, everything that went into this because as soon as they're done with the car,they've got drugs, fake IDs, fake DEA identification, drugs.And so that leads them because I'm not sure exactly which one of these would lead back to the home address.
18:42But I'm guessing because Eugene Horsch had been charged with some drug charges previously to this.and I'm sure that it affected his bail on one of those charges or something.And so they were able to go and search his house.Now, he had been, and I'm trying to get this right, because, you know, when you're dealing with federal charges and local charges, sometimes, and it happened in this case, the federal charges took precedent and they took these other ones away just to get them off the table because we don't want to deal with this right now.We've got to deal with this.So they went into the houseAnd so thisThis trip to the park
19:25Ended upPutting Eugene Horsh in jail in handcuffsAnd it put cops on on the groundAt his house whereThe House of Horrors is now in only PhiladelphiaThe address is 417West Chew AvenueAnd Chew as in Masticate
19:48OkayAnd soonce they got inside the address, Joe, it was interesting because police had been there already.And after they finished this most recent, which by the way, this search began right then in June and went all the way through till now.They're still searching things there at that address.Yeah, I just checked.The tents are still up outside the house.Yeah.
20:17That's what. So just that gives you all an idea of how much they're dealing with.But just to start with day one of the search, but I just wanted to get to this to point out that they have a law enforcement has been at the house in the last 12 months prior to this.And the one thing they noticed in going back to the home now with this all on search warrant is that something had been changed.some things inside the house have changed.Now, they're not going to articulate that yet.No.But there were things they saw and noted before that have been changed, which opens up another can of worms.But running down the list, okay, when you start looking at what law enforcement found, we're going to start with, well, Joe, where do you want to start with the weapons?
21:12You want to start with?Yeah, sure.Sure.Because we've got weapons and drugs, and we've got pictures and videos.Right.And it's those pictures and videos that actually have us doing this today, body bags.It looks like an ongoing criminal enterprise just on the surface of it.Because keep in mind, they have alluded to the idea that there was some type of, they're referring to it as a grow operation.
21:42that there's some evidence that there was illicit horticulture going on.I didn't think I'd say that phrase today, as opposed to licid.Right.But elicit horticultural pursuits, let's put it to you that way, where he's growing,I'm assuming he's growing weed.Yeah, it is.I don't think he's growing the coca plant, you know, to try to render down cocaine.Philly wouldn't be suited, a suitable climate for that.
22:10But, you know, I make fun.I'm just saying that so now you talk about stacking charges because it's one thing to be in possession of drugs.Now you're involved in manufacturing of drugs with probably the intent to distribute.Oh, and by the by, you're also in possession of firearms, which automatically kicks us up to a federal case in most jurisdiction.Joe, I was looking to that list on the weapons side and it said that there were approximately.120 pieces of ballistic evidence.What does that mean?Is that a term you've ever used?
22:47No, I've not used it.I've seen it in print, though.And here's probably what they're saying.When they say ballistic evidence,it could refer to potentially gun parts.And when you talk about, and here's something else, too,I'm wondering if this guy may have been trying to convert weapons.from semi to full.
23:12And you talk about getting the attention of feds,particularly our friends over the ATF.Well, I'll say they're my friends.They're not necessarily my friends.But, you know, it's going to put you on their radar as well.Because, and I don't know this to be a fact.I'm just saying when they find this much stuff there,that means that there could be other things out on the street that he's had his hands on.
23:38because if he's got a grow operation,well, it's not too much of an intellectual leap to say,okay, maybe he's into dealing in weapons, too.Now, from an investigative standpoint,that's something that needs to be explored.Additionally, any weapon that they might find in that house,remember, we recently talked about the ATF database.Okay?
24:05So if there have been,if there are any unsolved, we think a lot about DNA.You know, when we talk about unsolved cases, our friends at Othrom and all that,different can of worms here.If there are cases in Philly, okay, or the surrounding area,where you have gunfire-related death or a weapon that has been fired and they recovered thatfrom an evidentiary standpoint, that round is going to be entered into the ATF Nationaldatabase.
24:35Now, that's a first.forensic database that they don't have an actual weapon platform for. They know the caliber.They know the striations on the bullet because it's like a ballistic fingerprint. But holy moly,if they do test firing on any of these weapons and it comes back to say other crimes that are outthere, again, I go back to thinking about stacking charges here. You know, you're, you know,you think the proverbial noose is like tightening. And this is in the first seven days, Joe.Yeah.This is in the first,
25:08because you just said,the tents are still up at this address.Yeah,they are.And we're taping the show in the second half of August,okay?And this started on June 19th.This is a big structure, too.
25:20It's not a tiny house.Wow.You know,I mean,it's not,I mean,and I think it's like an attach.It's like a row house,
25:27but it's big,you know,when you see this thing.And Dave,we haven't even touched on this horrible finding where,you know,I got to tell you,something real quick on a little aside. You rarely see a chief of police or a sheriff when they stand
25:47at the podium and they've got that kind of, you know, thousand yards stare in their air and in theireyes and they're kind of shaking their head. And this guy says, you know, and I'm paraphrasing here,forgive me, but, you know, he looks out at the reporters and he's saying, I, I, I, I, I,cannot even begin to describe to you what I have just born witness to.And he alludes to the fact that this imagery that has been taken from the scene that, you know,that this individual was allegedly holding onto their story,um, he eludes the police, police chief actually eludes the fact.He said, there's people dead.
26:35And, you know, so I don't know specifically yet.We will find out.I don't know specifically yet what they actually found in there.But if you, I'd love to hear what you have to say.I'm glad you said that, Joe, because I was wondering, you know, we've watched a lot of press conferences together, you know.And rarely do you get them like this?But this is one of those cases that, again, remember how it began?It began with a simple searching of a vehicle, but of the guns and the drugs and things like that,
27:09the thing that really sticks out beyond the fact the guy had a fraudulent DEAID was that the girl that was in the car with him was showing an identification of a woman who's been missing for four years and that they're looking for.In Philadelphia, we're looking for this woman and you just showed me her ID, well, your picture with her ID.So that immediately, when they're back at this house now, all right, weapons got those.They found more drugs.You mentioned the marijuana grow operation.Got that.Chemicals.We've got numerous containers of unknown substances, Joe.
27:47Unknown substances.Drums, 55-gallon drums.Bottles containing liquids, chemicals that they still don't know everything they've got.The 55-gallon drums stuck out when this.scene was being processed because, well, remember what one of the crime guys, one of the mobstersin the 70s, Johnny Roselli, 55-gallon drum, right?Yeah.And Keyes Cane Bay.
28:16You can put a body in one of those.And so this 55-gallon drum, though, Joe, was connected to hoses and piping leading toward the groundwatersystem.Okay.Now, what I would ask everybody to do, go back in your file, go back in your file, and think about an apartment in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.Oh, no.Back in the 90s, okay, roughly happening about the same time the O.J. Simpson stuff was going on.And that image of individuals, and I knew.
29:03those people on you.As a matter of fact, the guy that was the chief medical examiner,I knew him very well.Dr. Jensen, oh, the stories he can tell.And you remember seeing those guys come descending,that external metal staircase outside of Dahmer's apartmentwhere they're carrying drums.So yeah, back to the comment that you made about,
29:29you know, the underworld and what they can do with the drum.all we have to do is look at is at Lake Mead, you know, out in Vegas where those drums had popped up.You've got hoses coming out of these.So for me, what I'm thinking is that are these drums being used to render with?And when I say render, I'm talking about where you can reduce human remains down to such a fine element that they could be pumped into the groundwater system.or middle of the night, you walk out to the street, you got storm gutter right there.You just tip this puppy over and pour it off into there.And Philly gets a lot of rain, man.
30:14It's a port city.They have showers that come through there all the time.You're taking on water into the sewer system.It's just pushing, man.It's like a river underneath.People don't realize you get in one of these things and you're down there.I've been in them, you know, looking for bodies and recovering bodies.And I've been in there after a rain.
30:31And it's scary.It can be scary.You know, down there.So, anything.It's scary here sitting here on dry land thinking about it.Yeah, and it's like a perfect system.Not saying that would.That's what happened.
30:41Right.However, I do know these unknown chemicals, those have been taken to Quantico, Dave.This is not going to the Pennsylvania State Crime Lab because the feds are up through their eyeballs in this thing now.So, you know, they, this is a case.This is a, you know how we've talked about with Guthrie, how.a lot has been made about when did the feds, you know, get an invitation.Right.This is not one of those cases where the feds have to be invited.
31:12Oh, yeah.They've got, they got a dog in the fight here.And boy, they were right on day.That explained so much.That was one of my questions for you is how did it happen so fast.Now I understand.Okay, but Joe, all of these things, okay, were found in week one of them going.And any one of the items we've mentioned is an all-day, all-week affair of trying to figure out what you have.
31:37But guess what they also found?What they're calling the laboratory.They found a lab.Investigators described portions of the basement.And I'm reading this from their notes.As resembling a chemical laboratory, containers and equipment whose purposes were initially unclear.Authorities began testing the substances.still haven't given us a clear picture.
32:03Not yet, but I think they already know what it is,but they're trying to,because of some other things they foundthat we're getting ready to tell you about,I think they'll have to tell us,but it's not going to happen right away.Yeah, I don't think it has that we're going to hear about itin the immediate.
32:23However, we have to remember that with the feds,come silence.So, you know, before you get you back all up in the air over, why aren't they releasing information, F-E-D-S, feds,they're in control of this.You know, they're not the ones that are running for office.They don't have to run out to a podium and make a statement.They've got all the time in the world to work on cases.And they're not going to let you have any.
32:58information about what has or hasn't occurred in that house.But I can tell you this, trust me, as we speak right now,there are people at that scene looking for everything that they can find that has forensic value.They're working in the lab out at Quantico and trying to discern that.And oh, by the way, they're also looking.at what might be, human remains,but not in the normal state of which we would expect them to be.The new Red Bull Dragonberry and Tropicberry Energizers,
33:48now at McDonald's, made with freeze-dried fruit,and an electric burst of flavor.The all-new Red Bull Energizers, now at McDonald's.This product may not be right for you.High in caffeine, details at McDonald's.You talk about this kind of intersection of horror.There's a couple of little intersections along the way.This guy that has, that has in fact been hooked up on charges in this particular case.
34:24In addition to that, he's got a rather infamous daddy as well.To say the very least,The dad's name is, he goes, well, his name, he just has died.He died back in 2025.His name was Raymond R.C. Horsh.And he was rather well known for generating material that's very graphic and disturbing,sexually explicit, and to top things off, very, very violent.And here's a little insight.
35:06I was kind of reviewing some of the stuff that, you know, that he was involved with.And he actually has a chapter, Brother Dave, in one of these books that he created.And it's actually talking about he's like this character is like a sexual sadist.He's talking about the killing and then rendering down of a woman's remains.And guess what he's using?He's using a lie.And so with Lye, Lye is such a caustic compound.You know, and our ancestors used it a lot, you know, to make soap with.
35:47It's actually a solution of potassium hydroxide, very, very caustic.And you can use it literally to, well, it's used in, believe it or not, it's actually used to cure foods.We have it there, but it is very caustic.And so you can, and he even alludes to this in the writing, which was fascinating.He said, and I'm paraphrasing again, he says something like, you can, I could place her in this drum of lie and within two hours, there would be nothing left.Now, I don't necessarily buy that, but, you know, it's kind of a, I don't know, a literary device.You know, he's, he's alluding to this.And this father's got a long history of this.
36:32As a matter of fact, and this is coming from a news, I don't want to misname the network.But Dave, they actually use the term.This is not Brother Dave and Joe Scott Morgan saying this.It has been mentioned the term snuff film has been used.And I think that this is related to the father, perhaps, and some of the works that he was involved in.And that's really, you know, for many people, you know, people regard that as an urban legend.But I think that it has, you cannot tell me that it has never happened.You know, and I don't know if it's happened in this case.
37:22I hope it hasn't.But the fact that it's out there is really, really troubling.It is out there.And, you know, when you and I were talking about this last night, off air, you know, we'veboth are like, please for the love.Let's not go there.But you know what?It's going to be there because it is the prurion interest of those of us who follow true crime.
37:42And we want to know what happened.Now, look, in the writings that they are hoping are all attributed to R.C., who is R.C.Horses, who is dead?Yeah.They were trying to determine, is this an actual threat?Is it a confession?Are the notes about a crime committed or future crimes that he's going to write about?a fictional manuscript.
38:02They're trying to figure all that out.But while they were in the process of doing that, Joe,something else happened.And after everything we've already given you,we started off by telling you,it's a story of missing and possibly dead women.Yeah.August 12th was the bombshell, Joe.
38:23Police seized what they're referring toan extraordinary amount of material, video images, videos, manuscripts, 10,000 pages.But let's just stick with the pictures and the videos, Joe, because from the picturesand the videos, which, by the way, they have, law enforcement has only gone throughfive to seven percent of the total. That's how large this is. And they don't even, they're noteven completed with what all they found yet. But five to seven percent in, they found two of themissing women, Gabriella Amarando, who had missing September of 2012, and Marybel Phrasis,who's been missing since February of 2018. They found pictures of both of these ladies
39:17alive and they found evidence, photograph, or video that they are both dead. Now, that's not normallysomething that the police put out there at this stage of an investigation because there are somany missing women in Philadelphia. Yeah. But they are asking for information from the public,and that's why they said, we got this. These two.women have been missing. Again, you're talking about a woman who when she went missing, she was22, it would be 38 now. I mean, and they know she was alive and that they had video. And thenthey know that she was dead and they have the video. I think that goes back to the chief statement,brother, where they talked about, he said, I know that they're deceased. Can I tell you something
40:13just from a scientific standpoint? And, you know, we don't know. We don't know.what their status is because they haven't been found.There's no mortal remains that have been found.However, I think that it would be interesting to get those dates when they were last seenand take a look at both these images, the antimortem and the alleged postmortem.I want to see if there's any evidence that they have been, how can I say it,denied food.Oh.
40:53Where they're withering, you know, kind of withering away.Help prisoner?Yeah.Yeah.Where, you know, and again, if this individual has got this kind of sadistic, sadistic thing.And, you know, I hate to leap over into the world of fictional on stuff.But, you know, you take a silence of lambs like scenario, which is actually based on a realcase. And no, it's not, it's not. Yeah. And it's not, yeah. Yeah, you dumber was trying to make
41:24sex slave, right? Yeah, yeah, he said he was trying to make, make zombies. Yeah. And so this isnothing, there's nothing new under the sun. And people have been enslaving people for thousands ofyears for this use, you know. Right. And they've got kind of a, I hate to use the word,goldmine, but from an evidentiary standpoint, and you can't look at a photo and say someone,is in fact dead.Right.You know, now, if somebody's laying next to their corpse and their head is cut off and it'sthere like Dahmer, you know, we had those images, by the way.
42:00I've got some of my show in class.Oh, yeah.Yeah, a matter of fact, I got one guy that's in a bathtub and he's field dressed like a deer.And that was in Dahmer's bathroom.Oh, my God.Yeah, no.Yeah.And, you know, you think about that and you think about the operation, you know, that was going
42:18on or that we think may have been going on down there. Now, this is a, this is a scientific problem,right? And so we need scientific solutions, all right? Sounds like an ad, doesn't it?No, how are you going to find out if these women, if their remains were dissolved there,how can you find out, right? Well, if they occupied that space, that's one of the reasons I wasthinking about if they'd been held for protracted time. Right. And let's say that they're chained upsomewhere or even stuff in a closet or you name it i mean i've heard about tons of peopledo you remember the case a few years ago out of south carolina where the girl that was in thein the store yeah in this oh my god what a horrible case well if you went into that trailer day she
43:04occupied that space right right okay so you can do swabbing's inside of there and even after thefact you can go back and say she was here now with theseknown missing girls because there's other girls that we have not discussed that I don't thinkthe names have been released yet or maybe they have at this point I'm not sure but we if theyhave families out there okay if they have families out there mom's dad's brothers and sistersare the best selection they're going to be able to get DNA sample from them and then they'regoing to sample all around that house and trust me what did I say about thefeds they got all the time in the world brother how do you do that though joe i mean really and truly
43:51how do you search i mean like even a studio i look at the rooms that you and i are sitting in and howdo you go corner to corner on your hands and knees scraping with a cue tip if necessary youyou would first off you wouldn't do it randomly you would and here's the other thing if you walk intoa scene you don't you don't remove everything in the scene right so you have to work around itemsLike I've got clothing scattered in here,luggage, you know, a bureau, you know, storage cabinets, lights, you know, all this stuff.Well, I can't take this stuff out because this stuff might have value as evidence.And certainly, if we do some kind of contact trace analysis on a surface where we think that either a body fluid has been deposited on or even if it's touched DNA and we swab that and we collect it and go back.
44:42And it's laborious, man.And so what you would do is you would take that space, you would take that space, say, Dave, you're investigator A.I'm investigator B, okay, crime scene investigator.You're going to handle these quadrants in the room and we'll break the whole place down into quadrants.And it will be like 1A and you'll go through and you will sample these surfaces and they will be individually collected.Then you'll go back to the lab and you'll process each one of those.but you do it in a highly ordered fashion because you want to go back.You want to go back and be able to say, okay, in quadrant 1A, the brother
45:26Dave was sampling in that area, this is what we found.Okay.And it's really robust.Well, if I go back out there and observe that scene now with that knowledge, would it beconsistent that she was held in a chair adjacent to that?Wow.Tied to the floor there.Is it a space on the floor or maybe she was curled up and was being contained there?
45:48You know, you never, that's why, you know, you lock everything down.And, Dave, they've got this whole place locked down.They're not just out in the yard, like digging around randomly or they're having to go through and check it inch by inch to see what's there.My Lord, Dave, I was just thinking about this.This thing numerically can get really overwhelming because.we only know about these women right now.What if they find other foreign DNA in there that may be entered into some kind of systemsomewhere?
46:25Maybe somebody said, my family member is missing.I mean, we don't know, but we would find, you know, those are what would be referred toas unknown samples that are there or their forensic samples.That means that we have a sample.we can get a profile off of it, but we ain't got a name to go with it because there's no comparativedatabase. So yeah, this is going to be painstaking, brother Dave. Well, the one thing that we do knowis that they have not let loose of the crime scene. We do know that even though they've been theresince, you know, June, that even as late as day before yesterday, the police revealed that, hey, man,
47:06this house has been substantially changed since we were here before, which they believe thatis indicative of, yeah, we found a bunch, but either stuff's been moved out or it's beenhidden.So they're taking their time, as you mentioned, Joe.And we do have the names of four women.Oh, it's four.Right.Okay.
47:24Gabrielle Aramorando.Maribel Bresas, and I know I'm butchering her name and I apologize.Blair Tonzelli, she's the one that went missing between 2022 and 23.but she's the one who the girl had the fake ID.That had the ID, yeah.Right.That got them into the house this time.But there is one more name.
47:44And she is a woman who was known to have been at this house before R.C.Horsh passed away.Her name is Amy McHale.Amy McHale's family has said she was at that house last time we saw her.And so they're trying to, and the last time she was seen was 2016.Please tell me, and forgive me, tell me about these.They found urns as well, didn't?Oh, yeah, there were four urns on the inside.
48:10And, you know, I didn't mean to gloss over that earlier.No, no.It was during that first week, going back to that first week of finding the laboratory and the marijuana grow and everything else, they found all these chemicals.And then they found at least, at least four urns.And they don't, they being officials, don't know how many cremains there are.They don't know if they've been mixed and matched.They don't know where the cremains came from.They, based on what they're seeing, everything is on the table, Joe.
48:45So, yeah, at least four.Yeah, I think that those remain, I guess they could have gone to FBI.I'm thinking probably the Philly M.E.Can you get DNA out of cremains?Very, very difficult.And it's because of the heat.This, okay, let's don't go there yet.Let's just go with this.
49:03First off, are they actual cremains?Secondly, how would this guy have access to a crematory?Because I've got to tell you, he's in Philly.You're not going to go out in the backyard and render somebody down unless he has some weird method to, and when you say cremains, that implies, I'm not, I'm saying the universal view.If people are saying that, you're not saying that it's been rendered down chemically.It's been rendered down by chemical reaction that winds up being fire, you know, but it's not like rendering down with lie or some kind of acid.Okay, this is something different.My question is, who has access to a crematory?
49:54And I think that's a salient question.I'd like to know that because, you know, we've talked about cremains many times, brother Dave.And, you know, you've got to get up there into like 14,600 degrees sustained Fahrenheit in order to begin to render down a body.A lot of it is size dependent, the mass of the individual you're rendering down.If you've got a real tiny little person, it's not going to take as long.But even with really tiny people, I take my classes at Jack State.I actually take them to crematory.And we go and look at the oven.
50:35We examine particulate matter that we discover there.And here's another thing.I don't know what the status of the cremains are.Because if there's evidence that these are actual cremains and they're in an urn,which is interesting that they use that term because urn is something that is specificallytied to cremation,unless you're going to use this kind of arcane languageto refer to an urn of butter or something like an urn of wine,
51:12I don't know.This is, it's language-wise, it's something that applies to cremaine.So my point here is, with cremation also comes another type of renderingbecause they put what remains.in the oven in an auger and it spins down and it it crushes they used to have opposing stones whichI was always fascinated by these big marble stones the stones rolled in opposite directions and theremains would be crushed because you'll still have bits of bone you'll have teeth these sorts ofthings I want to get it rendered down as fine and they're not always successful back to your
51:54earlier question could you in fact say that we cancan get DNA. I think that it would be a real uphill battle. However, forensic anthropologistsmicroscopically, they can take those cremains and they can find usable bits of bone in thereand they can identify if this is in fact bone. They can either go another step and say if it's humanor not. So that's, you know, that's kind of what's what's on the menu, guys. I mean, for what we'relooking at right now, Brother Dave and I have really no other.information. I think from a bodyback's perspective, I would urge anybody that has knowledge of thislocation up in the only neighborhood in Philly. If you even have peripheral knowledge of this
52:43individual, his father, these women or women that might be missing, take the time to look intothis, you know, turn on your thinking cap here and think if there's anything you could add to thestory. I'm sure they're getting tons of phone calls because as you mentioned, Dave, Phillyhas got a ton of missing women.And, you know, any big metropolitan area, like you're drowning and missing people.And you don't know why they're missing.You don't necessarily know they're dead.They may have just wandered off, you know, and wanting to start a life somewhere.
53:14We have no idea.But I can tell you now where we stand at this moment.This case is not going to be over anytime soon.There are going to be so many twists and turns to this that you're going to be surprised.probably. I think, in my humble opinion,Papa that only died back in 2025,I think that he needs to be looked into,particularly given this past that he has,
53:48couple that with the son. We don't know what went on in this house.This is the beginning of a real horror show,and I don't see any end any time soon.I'm Joseph Scott Morgan.And this is Bodybacks.This is an I-Heart podcast.Guaranteed human.
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