Trump in Denial About Looming Catastrophe | DeProgram with Ted Rall and Jamarl Thomas
00:12Good morning and welcome to a new work week. It's the first Monday in October, which means it's the beginning of the Supreme Court session and also it's time for deep program with Ted Roll and Jamarral Thomas.We're here from 9 to 11 o'clock today and looking forward to it. Lots to talk about. We are here Monday through Friday, starting at 9, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, we go to 11 like we are today. Tuesdays and Thursdays, we go till 10.If you have a question, please put it into the live chat.And producer, Robbie West, we'll put it right in there, and we will get to it.Paid support is, of course, highly appreciated.But you know all that.We'll get to that.We'll do a reminder of that later in the show.
00:57Here's what we've got teed up for you today.So there's been, the Republicans are facing dire poll numbers.nevertheless, Donald Trump claims that there's a big surprise coming and that the Republicansare going to win.I guess he'll have to pay out those $5,000 checks.Wang Ying Heather Zhang has been arrested as accused of spying for China against the son ofthe president of Taiwan in Washington state.That just happened.
01:32The Supreme Court is going to hear arguments today in a...what could be a really significant piece of legislation related to climate change that could holdbig energy companies like ExxonMobil, financially responsible for all the harms caused by fossil fuelemissions. The UAE gave Israel a list of the passengers and crew on that fly-de-by flight,including the Omani co-pilot accused of attacking the pilot and in trying to cause a terrorist incident,Um, Oman doesn't have diplomatic relations with Israel.So Israel, according to its own rules, should not have allowed him to fly into Israel.So questions are being asked about two weeks before the Nihahu's election.
02:21Generative AI is being relied upon by coders.Jamaral, I'm very interested in what you have to say about this, to the point now where the code that they're supposed to babysit and cross-check is now no longer comprehensible to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the,actual engineers. And also a total Jamarral topic, moon base is go. The NASA has gottenformal directives to build a nuclear reactor to be ready by 2030. That's in just four yearsfor a moon base for in order to power a moon base. They're trying to beat Russia and China,who have a joint project to build the first moon base. So it's a lot. Good morning, Jamaral. How are you?I'm doing okay.We forgot the Lula elections.
03:09I did not forget the interview with Morg against Reese Mug, which is actually quite good.Okay.I don't even know about that last one.Oh, it was good.It was good.Where shall we start?We can do one of those.We can do the ones I mentioned.
03:27Well, the code thing is quick, and we can just kind of get that out the way.Let's do it.So as human beings, when we write code, oftentimes you're writing code.It can get very complicated just from human code.I give you an example.I was working at a wine distribution warehouse.So I used to work for this company that would send out coders to build stuff for other people.Let's say, for example, the deep program is like, okay, we got an office.
03:51And we need to set up a computer system that allows us to authoritatively watch each and every person everywhere in the company.And we need to be able to track their patterns and everything else.Hopefully we're not that person, right?But the coding in the system, you would bring somebody in for it.They would build it.And somebody might be internal to the company that would watch it and maybe updates for it and those type of things.Okay, the wine distribution warehouse, it was a company that moved to Ashland and they wanted to line up their systems with the base company in Florida.And basically all along the East Coast, they would distribute wine to the various warehouses.
04:27And so they had to keep track of it.And they had to keep track of the policy differences, let's say, in Merritt.Maryland because Maryland had like 12 different districts and different rules on how they did wine.It was very weird. But all that stuff had to be linked with the system in Florida.They bought us in and do it. And the guy I was working with, we came up with an idea and had to model out and to make the stuff work.And part of the issue also was the amount of information and we needed to find a way in order to deal with information and everything else.The solution we came up with, we presented it to him. And the guy does software andHe looked at it and he says, what am I supposed to do with him?
05:07Like he even, his thing was, I have no idea what you guys just explained to me, nor do I have any idea on how I'm supposed to keep this up when you guys leave.Now, these are human coders, right?Both of us were mid-level coders.We weren't doing anything magical in the way that we built it.Like, it wasn't like we had like recursion and like radically object-oriented coding.object-oriented coding, but it wasn't like polymorphisms and all this other high-level shit.It was very straightforward, even though the tactic that we were using might have been a littlebit difficult to get your head around. That's just human beings doing it. We're not even
05:47talking about computers, because computers don't need to do in the way that we do it. They do it,whether you would look at it, and it wouldn't be necessarily in the way to human beings would writecode. Human beings would add comments. Human beings may write code in a particular way that youcan get accustomed to. It's usually repetitive.in the way that we write it.So if you're looking at somebody's code,you have a sense of how the human is doing it.A computer doesn't have to abide by that stuff.
06:12And so the way computer code looks is different.It's not comprehensible in that way.I mean, I suppose you can tell AI write itin the way that a person would, maybe,might be a solution to it.That's assuming they'd even do it that way.But yeah, I can see how that would probably.Basically, it's created something.
06:28There used to be a machine code,and then there was computer language.And now there's something new, which is...Right.The human being now having to try to understand, and they probably won't.And the thing is that the AIs make mistakes.We all know that if we ever use it.And so the problem here is, of course, if there's no human who can get under the hood and check it, then, I mean, I don't have to explain how that's a problem, right?
07:00Yeah.How do you fix the book?Like and by the way, this was forecasted that there was going to be that coding jobs, a lot of it was going to be gotten rid of.I mean, if you have basic stuff, then you can just tell the computer do the basic stuff.But say for the moment that it's not entirely basic.And there's a bug whittling away that's intermittent because intermittent bugs are the worst things in the world.It's a bug that doesn't show up every time you do something.You go to a web page, you put in information, you hit the thing.
07:2990% of the time it works.10% of the time it doesn't work.And you're like, okay, why has this 10% happening?Now, imagine that being a computer that has written that code,but there's an intermittent vote by 10% of the time it fails.Okay, how do I solve that?How do I solve that?That is hard to solve under normal circumstances.
07:49It is much hard to dissolve in a situation where you can't even read the codeor understand the code because a human being didn't write it.Let me tell you how I get around that problem.This is crazy.the electrical line under the hood.Every time that,every time that Fang does a operation,she joins a JSON file, everything,
08:09showing every process, everything that touches and start to finish.So then when those intermittent bugs pop up,I got timestamped in the JSON file.That's what people do.They're so busy pushing ahead to the next thing.They never stop to build any kind of system that's self-reporting.Because this is a waste of time.It's a waste of compute.
08:30Why would you do that?Your stuff is making databases.You're making databases and all?You're making like server changes, databases.You're doing all this stuff.I'm doing all of it.So I'm not running a rapper.But the thing about self-reporting is, okay, this is like the paradox in Star Trek where, you know, an alien has taken over Kirk.
08:50And Kirk, nevertheless, some part of him is aware of it and is able to fight back with his human, which to me is nonsense.But, okay, this is self-reporting.I mean, if the AI makes mistakes, it could make a mistake in its self-report as well, right?Well, not in this case.Because what it does.So think about how.I don't believe you.I'm sorry.
09:12I don't believe you.I'm sorry.I don't believe you.I've done software engineering for over a decade.I get it.And we all fuck up.We do.It just, it happens.
09:26And I don't buy this idea that, well, yeah, I'm building out the SQL database.or whatever database I'm using for it.And I'm building out the hardware and I'm building out the midsection.I'm building out all this stuff.And there's no way for me to make a mistake about it.And the software is not going to make a mistake.No, the whole point is to catch the mistakes because the idea that I'm retarded isbaked into the system.
09:46Okay.Well, there are a lot of people who are not retarded, quote unquote, that fuck up royally.Oh, very much so, but they're also arrogant.I'm not.And what I will tell you what, after the show, I will send you a zip.That you don't, that it's not going to be a fuck up because it's self reports.No, I don't buy the premise.I've seen too many top level software people.
10:06Fuck it up royally.That's not what you misunderstood what I'm saying.The entire so the JSON file does not rely on the model to self-report.Whenever, whenever something is executed, like if I say, okay, I need you to make a short,every step of that process is then recorded from when the file is from when the file is named to when it's uploaded to to where goes to Kuta to where.where it's cut apart.Every processor is recorded and timestamped in the JSON file.It's not the model.
10:37It's outside of the model.Now, I was saying to zip files.It's pretty wild.Let's not get to.We have a show here.We don't have to get to get it.It's a client set.All of this is client site.
10:49Or are you talking about?I was sure.I mean, what that could do is like it'd probably be easier to isolatelike where the bug took place.maybe by maybe.But also the other thing is that AI has this well-documented tendency to try to please youbecause it's based on language models that are programmed to tell a story, tell a narrative,more than to tell you the truth, right?
11:19And so the, you know, I mean, I just wonder also, like, will it cover for itself, right?Like, will it kind of say, like, everything's A-OK?hey, you know, like, you know how it's like, you're good.I don't know.No.I mean, the point is that the, but the real problem is if nobody knows how it fucking ultimately worksand can climb under the hood and can really, then you're going to have mistakes that ultimatelyare going to be unsolvable.
11:48And those problems are going to, those mistakes are going to build on each other.And eventually the whole thing is going to collapse.I don't know, man.I just know, and not even talked about AI, regular software can get very.complicated very quickly like systems that don't that you don't that seemed rudimentary can getcomplicated especially when you're looking at the coding of somebody and all the shit that's in itand you're like all right i need to find this one thing and look i remember that and my and my you knowi was working on stuff that's really old like fortran so i mean we're billions of miles away from
12:23that yeah um yeah by the way the point the only point that i'm making is even in just basicsoftware, it's the issue.Yeah.Like, that's not even, like, I bring you onto a company and it's like, okay, Ted, bro,this is our product and I need you to go into the product and do this.Okay, where do you start?Right?Like, they have like objects that you've never seen before.
12:46They have stuff that's connected to the database in ways that don't quite make sense.They're triggers that take place in a database that when something happens, trigger firesoff that you may never even know about the trigger existing.And they're like, we need you to fix or we need you to add this to the system.oh hey, we have a bug that keeps showing up,we need you to fix this.That's not even AI.Like that's just regular run of the meal software
13:06that has those issues associated with it.And we add, I tell you, it just adds the problems.Well, I'm sure this is not a topic that we're,that we will not be covering in the future.So come up.There will be one big fuck up somewhere.And they would say, if we're able to,if it hasn't brought down the entire internet
13:23and we're still able to do this show,we will continue to talk to talk about it.Yeah.Philip Blair 20 says Nokia won the contracts to build communication centers around the moon.A few years back, they won this contract.By the way, Russia already has that nuclear technology.The missile that Russia uses, the fly around the world that they recently put out,they were even talking about their, it runs on a nuclear process, on a nuclear device,
13:52the same device that they can put on the moon.P.W. Walker, P. Walker, I should say.Software engineering is trash, no accountability and no responsibility.It's emblematic of the decline of professionalism and the rule of law.MC calling replies and says NASA and SpaceX are advancing plans for a permanent U.S. lunar base,with SpaceX utilizing Starship and Starlink technologies to support the infrastructure and communications.Yes.So maybe we should talk a little bit about, we should talk about the moon base.
14:24So this goes to the military guys saying we need to be able to fight on a,moon, fight the Chinese on the moon.And that, who is it? It wasn't Brad Cooper. It was the other guy that works with Donald Trump.He came out recently. I think it was like a week ago saying the United States need to be preparedto fight the Chinese on or around the moon. And it raised that brawl. I think I even did a videoon it like, what? The actual F. This is part and parcel to the reason why I keep saying,I would really prefer us to go out into the cosmos as a world, as opposed to having these wars on themoon, which is what they're ostensibly.
15:01We have enough wars here. We're good.We have enough wars here to take the shit to out of space.But that's what they're planning, right?They want a moon base. Okay, so the Chinesewant a moon base. Okay, so what does that mean?What, you have two countries with two moon bases? So is thisChina's part of the moon and America's part of the moon?Like, what does this mean, right? Are they settling together?
15:22Well, no. They're trying to compete to get to the moon.Now, on some level, put the meantime of the Soviets and Americans andway that they have their space race with the Americans, you know.This is a space race, no question.Because they view the moon as a launching pad for exploration in this part of the solar system and beyond, right?So basically the first step, I mean, if you're going to have a moon base, right, you have a number of problems, you know, food, water, et cetera.But the number one, you can't have food or anything.You've got to have power.
15:55And obviously, a nuclear reactor is the first step.And you've got to maintain, and that thing has to be, you can't have, you can't require a man's presence to babysit it for, you know, year after year after year.Because that's too hard.It has to be able to sit there.But the temperature on certain parts of the moon are close to absolute zero, right?The conditions are very harsh in certain cases, right?Which is why they want to do it, like at the South Pole of the moon where it's not quite like that, where it's more steady.and it's sort of more temperate, you know, more temperate.
16:28But still, I mean, it's not really a safety issue since nobody lives on the moon.And if the whole thing blew up, nothing would really happen to us.But it's a, but it's a, it's a, it's going to be an expensive project.You don't want to lose it, right?So it's interesting.I would much rather have us all do this as one world as well.It's just also, it's a tremendous waste of money, too.I mean, think about the replicated, like all the duplicated and redundant, you know,
17:01expenses in terms of hiring two teams of scientists, three teams of scientists to do the sameexact thing, you know, instead of all working together, not to mention just all the lab,the labs that have to be, you know, stood up and all that.It's really wasteful.Yeah, I agree with you.Like, think of those two teams that were working on a similar objective.and they can even expand out their objectives.Okay, so one builds the power system,
17:29kind of like they did with the ISS,whereas like, okay, one build the power system.The other one builds the processes that will createthe bricks that can be usedin order to build a habitat that's going to be on the moon.Because either you take everything with youor you build it while you're there.So you build your oxygen while you're there,
17:46you build your water while you're therebased on a, you know, if you can pull that stuff out of the groundin some way you have machines that would basically make bricksthat can make a larger habitat.Yeah, I would wish they would do that.How much water could, I mean, come on, we know that that's their plan on Mars and on the moon to pull the water out from below.But you and I both know Jamarral, there can't possibly be that much water there.Not on the moon, on Mars, though.
18:10There's a Mars, not on the moon.I mean, Mars used to look like Earth at one point.Right, but the question, we don't really know how much water is underneath there.Well, the problem with Mars is that there's no, there's no magnetic fields.So even if you start extracting the water, the solar wind just going to pull it into space.That's like what happened before.So what's the point?He said what's happened before?
18:30Oh, you mean, like losing the atmosphere and everything else.Well, because Mars is, I mean, the whole reason Mars is a desert is because it doesn't have a magnetic field.So the solar wind just goes in and just strip the atmosphere away.That's, I mean, that's why killed Mars.Yeah, but you could contain, you could contain the water, obviously.I mean, you're not leaving it, you're not leaving it exposed, right?It's just underground.I understand.
18:52But you're drilling into it and you're drilling into it and then, you know, putting it into some sort of contained sealed habitat, right?I mean, the thing that's what you mean.Yeah, you're not terraforming.You're just pulling the water so the people astronauts can drink.I mean, the fact that we can't fix Baltimore, but we think we can fix an entire planet shows how it completely retarded the human races, starting with the United States.By the way, speaking of which I have a prediction.I think the United States is even more retarded than like Russia.and China. Russia and China are, they say they're on track to get this done by 2036. It's notable that
19:29they're working together. You know, they didn't always get along. So the, but, you know, we say we'regoing to be ready by 2030. Well, that's just the nuclear reactor, right? They say that the Russiansclaim that they're going to have. So the U.S. claims they want to have theirs launched by 2030.That doesn't mean installed and up and running on the moon, right? That's not the same thing at all.But I think I'm just going to predict here, you know, we're going to have this conversation in 10 years.You're all I'm pretty sure Russia and China are going to be ahead of us.Yeah.I mean, Russia's already demonstrated to technology.
20:06I mean, when they should.Do you remember, I think it was several months ago, they fired a missile and the missile went around the world.They basically, it went, I think, 14,000 kilometers, something like that, some insane amount.And Russia made the point of saying that missile could stay in air.all day if it needed to.Like many, it could literally travel the world if it needed to and hit any target on the planet.They were using a nuclear reactor.The same nuclear reactor that they're talking about saying, hey, we can use this on the moon.
20:35This can, you know, fund habitats and everything else.And so now they're working with the Chinese who have been putting all sorts of stuff up in spaceand obviously have an industrial base that can support doing that if they wanted to.The U.S., I'm very doubtful of.I'm just very doubt.But we drain money out of NASA.And as Robbie pointed out, you can't even build the bridge in Baltimore.Right.
20:59We can't finish a subway that was started in New York City in the cities.These are basic things on Earth.And you're telling me about rocket reactors that you're putting on the moon.It's like, come on.Yeah, it's like, maybe.So a little housekeeping here.First of all, if in case you guys missed it, on Saturday, we did a bonus show.with what's his name again?
21:25Mertaza Hussein from DropSight News where so if you missed it,go and check that out on YouTube and Rumble.It was at 9 o'clock on Saturday morning.It was a good talk.And also, Robbie and I did a little Bible study thing on this Bible.I joined Robbie.It's Robbie's first inaugural podcast.It was very good, very worth checking out.
21:50Congratulations, Robbie.So yeah, congrats to Robbie.And I think it went really well.I think Robbie's a natural.He brings the fire in Brimstone, which I think will surprise no one here.And, yeah, it was good.What else?Oh, pardon?
22:07What was the video on?What was the topic?Robbie, you want to tell you want to explain what it was about?Yeah, it was blown up the Zionist mythology that Israel and the Jews are God's chosen people.So I started in the Old Testament because that's what I always like to.go. I explained how they conflate the return from the Babylonian captivity to the resurrection of thestate of Israel in 1948. Then go into the New Testament using the words of Jesus about the days ofvengeance and destruction of Jerusalem, the fulfillment of the old covenant, the establishment of the
22:35new, and put the entire thing to bed. And it was amazing. And YouTube is darling. YouTube is falling.YouTube is totally rattling the hell out of it. YouTube is giving it 15, it's getting 15 impressionsa day. Despite the numbers being.the 15 best impressionsrightI mean to be fair though it's likewhen channel's first saw it's kind of hardto get up money that topic should do well
23:03it's hard it's hard it's aboutit's about Zionism that's whyyeah maybe maybe the clips will do betterbut anyway we'll talk about that later soanyway encourage everyone to go check that outand then what was you the oh yeah so this is just areminder that when we're on the Monday WednesdayFriday two-hour show. The emphasis of the second hour is Q&A. So definitely have your questions
23:27ready for the second hour, even, you know, if you're so inclined. Okay. Okay. Do we wantanything else to say about the moon before we move on? Yeah, it's just we should be goingout together. That's all. And I know that's naive, I suppose.It's not that I expect it, but the ISS was a good idea.And we are baking into either a major conflict that's going to take place in space,or we're going to have to come to some kind of terms about how we deal with space.Because the idea that you're going to, okay, this is the Chinese side.This is the American side.
24:09Okay, now what are you two doing?Like all of these people are sitting with their hands in their ass on the moon or their thumb in their eyes.It's like, what are you doing while you're on the moon?Are you trying to get resources?Are you trying to do science?Or do you just want a base, like a military base on the moon?And we're going to have what?A Chinese side, a Russian side, an American side, at some point an Indian side.
24:31Are we really going to replicate the nonsense that we do on this planet on the moon?And it kind of remind you of the way we handle Antarctica, right?Where it's kind of like we don't really, it doesn't make a lot of sense, right?It's sort of, it's the last vestige of colonialism, you know, where,you just run out and you plant a flag.I mean, there was a hilarious, you know,contest about 15 years agowhen they kind of realized,
25:00the great powers realizedthat the polar ice cap was melting away permanently,at least in the summer.And Russia wanted to claim the North Pole.And, I mean, I think they have a pretty credible claim to it,considering their geography.But anyway, Russia, they went down to the bottom of the seaand planted a Russian flag under the,
25:20under the, whatever ice cap there is.And it's probably, I don't know, if it's still down thereor if it was like eaten by a Marwal or something.But it's just like, really?That's what it feels like?Yeah. It's just weird.It's like, dude, like you're going to roll a conquistador actionand on the South Pole of the moon.
25:43But there's some things that all of us, that,look, Earth doesn't belong to each.individual in the way that we think of it, right?It should be common heritage.True.It doesn't belong to anybody.What we need, JT, is a civilization expansion.Once you win the space race, go to the Alpsatari, then the great power is able to do it.
26:04You go and you fight each other out on another planet.There's nothing.They have the game.A game exists.Problem soft?It's not good, but it exists.Well, we need a good version of it.Maybe, hey, you know, your programmer, maybe we should build it.
26:16Oh, dude, I'm not good with shit like that.We'll make it.I know.I know my lane.My lane was building functional shit.Not this.This is different.All right.
26:27So fly Dubai,energy companyBoulder lawsuit,the spy case in L-A-Xor the dismal polls for the Republicans.Or Lula.or what was the other thing? I forget you were mentioning.Oh, the really small debate.
26:46I mean, you should see it first before we talk about it.But it's good thing.It's interesting.Let's talk about the Republican polls.Again, my assessment going back for like a month or two was they were going to get wiped out.And a lot of people at the time were like, well, in the House.And I would say the House and the Senate.And I would say it for months.
27:06Yeah.And the only reason I'm late to the party, but I agree with you now.Yeah.He's too ubiquitous.He's everywhere.Like he's too, he's too much of a luminary.And if he's a luminary and it's good.Tolerico could be Paxton, even though he's being outspent in Texas.
27:23Yes, I would go further.He will beat Paxton.Okay.And Paxton's a terrible candidate.Yeah, but it's Texas, right?And so the assumption is a Republican, even a terrible one who went.I don't think that's true this year.Donald Trump is on the ballot in every race.
27:40And people are furious.I mean, Americans are ripshit about the state of the economy and the correct.perception that they have that the government is pretty much doing anything and everything.They're sending nuclear base on the moon, money to Ukraine, money for genocide.There's money for anything and everything except helping the American people.They're even talking about what, cutting Social Security because they need to pay money forthe military?I'm 63.
28:13I give a lot of thought to that.We need to cut Social Security.Right, right.Yeah, there's literally the fund is going to start running out.of money in 2032. That's when cuts will be necessitated. That's only six years. That is not long.You know, I mean, that's it. And the thing is, you would just think that Social Security,the third rail of American politics would be something that both, or at least one majorpolitical party would be getting together and holding, you know, hearings about and like, you know,
28:43talking to various experts from the left and the right to try to figure out how to save the system.Personally, I think that the idea that the system is viewed as a separate entry on the budget is ridiculous.But, I mean, there's a lot of things that are ridiculous about Social Security.Like, it's ridiculous that they only tax you up to a certain amount.It's the ultimate regressive tax, like super rich people basically don't pay Social Security taxes and super poor people do.It's stupid.It's also stupid to be like, oh, if the system goes bankrupt, then sorry, old people.It's like, really?
29:18why is that separate? Why is taking care of old people its own separate little line item?You know, nothing else is.Well, and they've taken money from Social Security.And acting is it. It's insolvent.Like when they...There's that too.Yeah, they would take money away from it and they would be like, oh, look, there's not much money in Social Security.Dude, you've just taken money out of it.
29:38That's what they did to the post office.Yes.The post office is like, quote unquote, broke.But every year, Congress, like, leeches out, I think it's $5 billion a year from,from the postal services profits.So, you know, hey, this show wouldn't do well either if they were deducting $5 billion a year from us.And forcing them to pay in a different way, meaning they would say something like, well, you have to pay your pensions now.It's like, dude, the pensions are not going for like 60 years.
30:05Like they were doing math stuff in order to cripple the post office to make it look as the post office was insolvent.The post office was never insolvent.No.No.I mean, in fact, major companies use the post office in order to deliver.some of the packages that they themselves don't want to deliver because of the expense.I don't know why any country would declare war on its own post office. I mean,how does that make sense? It's critical infrastructure, but anyway.
30:31But it's, again, they're declaring war. They don't like those things because those thingsare public, meaning that's the way of destroying those things.Quasi-public, right?Quase, but mostly public. I mean, what they would prefer is that,We're all using FedEx or UPS, right.And FedEx would love that.FedEx, Amazon, all those places will pay a huge amount of money in order to get the post office destroyed.They literally could not do what the post office does.
31:03Like they would not be able to deliver, you know, mail en masse, you know, massive amounts.Like, you know, they're good at doing what they do, but they can't, you know, they can't replace the function of the postal service, you know, which is, you know, bringing like a, a,paper bill to the middle of like rural Alaska for 40 or 50 cents they can't do that I don't evenknow what a first-class stamp costs anymore because they don't you know now with the foreverstamps the numbers are on are no longer on the on the stamp so you don't know how much they costyeah I don't think they care like it's a country at war with itself and and again from myargument as always it's a capitalistic country if there's any doubt about whythey're doing things that are destroying the democratic part of it.
31:51It's because one is eating the other.One is just eating the other.I don't think the stuff works where both of these things are sitting side by side.One eats the other.Even if you get times where the democracy part inflames itself for whatever particular reason,inevitably, the capitalism part waits and continues to nibble away eating the other.Just as Karl Marx predicted back in 1848 would happen.Okay, so the polls are terrible, right? So we talked about this, but I think it's worth repeating. The AP Nork poll from middle of last week found that Trump has disapproval of 82% on the economy, which this year, as in most years, is the number one issue on voters' minds, right? And literally, like when it came to Watergate, Nixon had a higher approval rating on Watergate when he resigned than 82% disapproval.
32:48Like George W. Bush, when they failed to find WMDs in Iraq, had a higher approval rating on the Iraq war than Trump has on the economy.I mean, it's absolutely catastrophic. I have to ask you, Jamar, I had this sinister view of this.When Trump was like in my hometown of, he was just north of Dayton, he was in Vandalia, which is where the Dayton airport is, you know, over the weekend.And he's telling the crowd, oh, you know, there's going to be a big surprise.Democrats don't know what's coming.I'm thinking, does he mean, could he be referring to something other than Republicansmarshalling a surprising number of votes and beating Democrats at the polls?Could he mean there's going to be ice goons at the polls?
33:40And Democrats are going to be afraid to vote.Could he mean, we're going to suspend the, I'm going to declare a national emergency.so there won't be an election.Does he mean, could he mean,I'm going to suspend the resultsif I don't like them?I mean, could this be something other than that?Does Trump have, I mean,
33:59but the president doesn't have power.Yeah, but the president does have power internallyin regards to how state elections are runshort of his influencewith the figures in those states.He can declare a national emergencyand then direct all the national guardsmento shut down the polls.
34:19I mean, also there's fair game at this point.Like we're not in a world of stability of institutions, etc.Like that's not where we are right now.So anything's fair game.I mean, look, if you can get away with it, then it's very possible that the person could do it.And so, and I mean that in the fullest sense of the term, if you believe he can get away with it, you may do it.I mean, we're talking about somebody who tried to overthrow an election of president, meaning he tried to take over America in a coup.Nothing happened.
34:49and there was no consequence for it.So what stops him is the question that I think is more.Honestly, my takeaway, if I were Donald Trump,my takeaway from October 6th would be,I didn't go hard enough.It's like if I'd gone harder, I would have pulled it off.And, you know, I should have deployed local and state law enforcement.I should have had this be a full-fledged coup.
35:16I mean, he tried to do a push, right?of putches where you sort of, you know, a mild, a mild nudge and you hope that the whole thingcomes crumbling down.Pitches generally don't work, as, you know, a certain Austrian colonel found out.You know, the same thing, you know, same thing here.I mean, if I were Trump, I'd be like thinking, go bigger, go big or go home, right?Like, you suspend it, you know, like otherwise, what's he going to be doing for the next twoyears. He's going to be in hearings constantly fighting the Democrats and their, in their investigations.
35:51Democrats have already, in my view, foolishly talked about like how that's what all they're goingto be doing for the next two years. I think they should do that for the next two years. I just don'tthink they should make it like the one thing that they're talking about in the midterm election.They should be talking about, you know, affordability and the problems of the American people, butthey're not really, I mean, they're going to benefit from Republicans screw-ups.But I'm not convinced that they have any solutions.Well, I'm not convinced they have solutions, nor am I convinced they care or convinced that they are even trying for solutions.I don't think that's what the political party is.
36:27And in fact, I don't mean I think that's what the political institutions could get at this point.I don't think either political party is in a position where they care.They're in a position where they're fighting each other just to see who has power in order to give out benefits and whatever to the people who are paying them for it.There's nothing to do with us as Americans.We are a side show.We are just watching elephants or hyenas go about their way.It's not like meaning the hyena may turn to say, hey, we're doing this for you.It's like, okay.
36:57Sure you are.In what capacity in what way?Like, I don't see these guys having any potential power to deliver anything for anybody.Not anything real.And when they're saying, well, we're going to go after Donald Trump,honestly, in a perfect world, in an ideal world, not even perfect,just relatively ideal, mildly unideal, even.They would have a, what is it called,
37:21thing for America, a contract with America.And they would say, this is what we're going to do.And it would be five items on that list.And they would be judged by whether or not they accomplish those five items.Every day we wake up, every day we go to bed,every day we brush our teeth, we're thinking about getting these five items to accomplish.That's our job, that's what we're doing. That's what they should do.Because in that case, you can set up a dynasty.
37:43The public has something to evaluate you by.If you get it accomplished, the public can say, hey, they accomplished this.This is what they got done.This is what they got accomplished.They did what they said they were going to do.That is powerful.Short of that, you got nothing.Them telling you, well, we're going to investigate Donald Trump forever.
38:00Okay, that's nice.And they may even be something to get you elected just because people want him investigated,one of stopped, one of stalled, et cetera.Fair enough, I accept all of that.but that's not really doing anything for anybody if that makes sense.I think it's a perfectly valid secondary or tertiary priority.Yes.But not a priority, not a primary one.
38:24Well, I have a question for you all.And I brought this up before back when we were talking about ICE.And I think that's relevant to revisit it now.We're talking about Trump potentially federalizing the National Guard doing all this other stuff.The National Guard and the militia are two different things.It is in the power of the governor to nullify National Guard in their state and call up the state militia.The militia answers to the governor.That's how you get around this.
38:50Do you think that it's – can you all think of any single governor in this country that have the balls to do it?No.That would force a constitutional crisis that the governor in black and white on the paper it's written in would win.Wait a minute, wait a minute.There's a difference between the National Guard and a militia.Correct.Does that has control of the National Guard?So what you do then is that because states.
39:15I don't think what you're saying is true that like, Robbie, that like a, that the National Guard can be converted into an independent state militia outside of federal law.It couldn't be.No, the governor would have to nullify the National Guard Act.How can the governor, well, how can the governor nullify the National Guard Act?The president.It supersedes the state.But I mean, unless you're talking about just.Yeah, under the supremacy,
39:44clause of the Constitution, right?Federal law always, when there's a conflict between federal and state law,federal law prevails.Correct.But that's where you dilify it.You say we're just to enforce it.Well, that's just ignoring it.Correct.
39:59I mean, that's not.I mean, that's a constant.Yeah, that's no force of law.That's unconstitutional.That's just the civil war.The ninth and 10th amendment to disagree with.you that's the entire point of them yeah but for example whenever there's been uh governors like duringthe school desegregation crises and like areas in like arkansas and mississippi back in the 50s and
40:1960s um you know Eisenhower and jfk like faced down recalcitrant southern governors and they werelike okay we're we're going to send in you know we're going to federalize your national guardand you're going to have to do what we say yeah and they killed peopleListen, I'm not saying that I'm not saying that will not be a consequence to this.What I am saying this is that do you have a federal government?I'm just saying consequences or not.I mean, like, let's just ignore the bodies in the street.I just don't think like under our system that it would take.
40:49You know what I mean?Like if a governor, if a governor decided to be that defiant,and the answer to your question is, fuck no, no governor has the balls.And the Republicans did.But if the governor decided to try to have that kind of.of like parable of the sewer kind of basically sort of soft succession, secession. I just don't seeI don't see how the federal government would allow that. They just send in troops and quash therebellion. Well, it depends on the situation, I think. I don't think they would do it on a normal
41:21course. I don't believe for a moment. They would have to do it on a normal course of action.I mean, if it was, if Donald Trump, say for example, Donald Trump succeeded, like meaning he wasable to get the Republicans to say, hey, we're going to back Donald.Donald Trump's and this notion of America is dead because Donald Trump just stole the election.I do think you would get some governors that would say, fuck this, I'm out.I think California may be one.Washington state may be one where they would just, I don't.And the question would come up.
41:49Who is the national guard going to serve the president or the state?Because at this point, the state is no longer America.It's a Ukraine thing, right?You get an overthrow of the state.Yeah, or it's done it's Dernetsk, right?It's like that.That's what I think it is.I think that's what it becomes.
42:05You get the situation where they're like,you would no longer have legitimacy.You've overthrown the country,meaning we no longer have to stick with you.It's not even succession at this pointbecause this is no longer America.You've stake in the country.In which case, the governors say,
42:18use the National Guard for protection.The president comes out and says,well, hey, I'm still president.This is still America.And so I am calling you up.I'm basically taking control of the National Guard.And no president.They may say the president can fuck off.
42:32No president.a certain rail splitter from Kentucky is going to let any state disappear, right?No one wants to have like, you know, a state fall out of federal authority under their watch.Well, you wouldn't have to go to that part. I'm not talking about secession.But it would be federal authority.It would be a soft secession. I mean, it's effectively.Succession because America doesn't exist under that rule.Like, meaning I get that this is a question where the people are going to argue.
42:57They can argue it all they want. The reality of it is if you overthrow the government of a country,then that country is no longer that country and the true.traditional sense of the term. I'm not legally bound to you anymore. That country no longer existsthat you've just taken over. Now, you could say that's nonsense. And you could say I'm bringingup the military to go after you. But if my military takes my point of view, then yeah,we have a Donette situation. I mean, it's that model where Robbie's thing works.Because the thing that's so tricky, right, is, I mean, I think what Robbie's trying toaddress here is sort of like, okay, if you have legal and anti-constitutional law breaking
43:35by the federal government. Is there a remedy available to the state governor, or at least one at a time,right, to fix that? And I think the answer is no, because of the supremacy clause of the Constitution.Here's what you're missing. Under the Constitution, the state, the individual states handleelection law. You have a president who's then going to say, although Lord knows that was not observedunder Bush v. Gore, but yes. I understand, but just let me get like five words in here. I'll shut up and go intothe back. So you have a president.who's going to come in and say, I'm going to take that power away from you. I'm going to sendin troops to make sure this does not happen. The president is violating the oath to the Constitution
44:15from which he derives his authority. The governor at that point can say, go to Hill. We're not going to dothis. But not legally. He can't. Of course he can't. Then what you then have is under the rules ofthe existing, of the previous system, I think as Timoral would say, then both the governorand the president are in violation of the Constitution.So you basically have to do two wrongs make a right.I think two wrongs just make a split is all that happens there.Okay, so what supersedes what's head?A constitutional amendment over a congressional law.
44:51The Constitution always wins.So the law that Trump is, that Trump is trying to push through here is a law or an executive order.Either way, what it does, it is under, it does not have the authority.But the Supreme Court would have to adjudicate that.The Supreme Court would have to adjudicate.Well, then they better do their job, but they've got to have a shooting war in the streets.Yeah, I mean, I think we're just, yeah.I mean, I think.
45:13Listen, if you want a revolution, this is how you get there.That's not a revolution.That's something else.The revolution is an uprising, a popular uprising.Wait, this one on a set model that's being presented.Rob, you make the point of saying, if the president does what?So if the president, if he comes in, like say, if they get this Save America act passed, okay?Right.
45:35He then sends the National Guard in to intimidate voters at voter booths.That's what this is all about.Let's just be completely honest here.Correct.Under the Constitution, the state, not the federal government, has the authority over this.That Save America Act is unconstitutional on its face.If you have a federal force that's going to say, you will do this at the point of a bayonet,the governor at that point can say, no, we will not comply.
46:02We have Article 1 of the Constitution.We also have the ninth and the Tenth Amendments on our side.Mr. Trump, go fuck yourself.Well, the remedy, but that would be an illegal remedy.The remedy that would be available to the governors in this case, let's say a governor,would be to file a federal lawsuit and have it go to the U.S. Supreme Court ultimately and have them rule.That's the only lawful remedy.You're going to go to the same federal government that just passed a law that caused a problem in the first place.
46:31Ted, that's why we have a second amendment.Our Constitution blows.Okay, I say it all the time, and this is just another example.Okay.I mean, I would like you to be right, but it's just like, unfortunately, that's not how they wrote it.You're not going to go to a shooting war first.They're going to go to the court.You're going to have several governors for multiple democratic states that take into court and try to fight it.
46:49Besides which, yeah, I mean, besides what, okay, let's just say you're a fucking maniac governor.It's like governor, too long comes back from the dead, right?And like you're like, you're governor, Governor Ted Raul, lunatic decides to do this, right?okay, what's going to happen? Who's going to win? Who do I have? Like, you know, Albany PoliceDepartment? I mean, who do I have? I mean, they're going to say, this is, this is the U.S.government. They can nuke us. I mean, there's literally no way to win.They're going to nuke you. They're going to send in the cops to beat your shit out of youand drag you out of your office. I don't even know if anybody's going to stand up with you.
47:25Or they'll send in paratroopers and assassinate me.Look, I'm telling you, that model only works if you do something so egregious that we'remultiple states joining with you.I'm telling you. Then you're talking aboutthe military. You're talking about, okay,we're violating the voting lawsis that thing.The only thing that holds,
47:45the only thing that holds this country togetheris two things. One, the promise of maybehave an economic future, that's done.The other thing is thinking that your voteactually means something.It's a pressure release valve. Once you takethat thing away, the entire thing explodes.At about the government,
48:02think about the, think about theDeclaration of Independence. I do agree with your premise. Like you agree with your premise. Like whatyou're saying is that something I'm disagreeing with. I'm disagreeing with the way I think they'regoing to behave. And I think these guys who under no circumstances are used to dealing with militarymatters, then if you're not going to jump to the notion of we're going to go into military,they're going to think we got to fight this in court. Then if you're going to think we're going tothen if you're right, then we need to stop pretending like we are a republic and accept the fact.that we have been overthrown that we're now being ruled by an oligarchy.
48:36Here's the catch, though. I think you are right. If indeed Donald Trump tried to overthrowthe election, meaning if indeed he succeeded, I think there would have been a civil war.Or if indeed Donald Trump comes out and tries to do something about the election,meaning if he's doing something that is like we've canceled the elections,I think you would have, I think people would lose their shit. Or if he did something todirectly say, well, I'm nullifying these elections.like any dictator dictatorial shit especially if he's saying what is in the region in order tooverlook this i think you may get governors who may get a little bit more aggressive at dealing with it
49:12but i don't think these spineless democrats who at you point out can't even build a bridge inbaltimore is going to immediately jump to military if don't trump tries to pass a save actor goons at a thing i just don't but but doesn't but that to that point doesn't isn'tisn't that when the man on the street would stand up and say no more with us andAmericans?Yeah, Americans.Actually, stand up and said, no, you do not get to send federal troops in to beat the hundred of people.There are already going to.
49:40They've been federal troops.They've been federal troops.I'm going to the dilemma of the fact that, like, most of the people who would be so inclined, would be politically to the right.And those people, many of whom would be very fine with this happening because they support Donald Trump.Well, I don't know.I'm skeptical of that part, too.No.I don't know.
49:58I think shit like this pops off when something extremely.major, major crisis.No question.Even most Republicans don't want a dictator, even though they're too stupidrealize that they have one.I don't know if they know, would they even know.I think a lot of them would buy like, oh, the election, the Democrats stole the election.They had illegal immigrants vote in it.
50:19They didn't, you know, their non-citizens are voting.There's been widespread fraud.I mean, there's a reason Donald Trump has been messaging that for the better part of 10years undermining the, you know, the credibility of the elections and the way that the votesare counted and talking about election machines being count, being hacked by overseas, and so on.I mean, he's made his base believe that there is at least a credible argument to be madethat the votes aren't counted fairly and that people who shouldn't be voting or voting.So therefore, if you believe that, and then your president, who you like, says, that's what
50:57happened. I mean, many of many Republicans will say, okay, well, this is what this, we were toldthis. And of course, it's not just Trump saying this. He's got this huge infrastructure of,you know, influencers and people on social media and Fox News who are all going to support thator turn a blind eye to it. I mean, I think. Yeah. I think I'm laying the framework for theargument of it's cheated, it's cheated, et cetera, is to create a context by which you can accepta dictator.We have some comments here.Because his point is like the elections are fraudulent, don't pay no attention to the elections.
51:32Okay, so the elections don't really matter.So then what matters from the standpoint of getting in office?What matters is what I say, Trump.Yeah, I think the reason that he did that was it's an insurance policy.If things ever went tits up electorally, he could pull this card.I mean, it's the Joker.That's what it is.Emily, he has says, he has the Supreme Court six to three, the power to do what he wants
51:56and red states will follow.I don't really disagree with that.Yeah, I agree.Robbie, Mr. Charles is asking Robbie,Robbie is saying that a governor would have to comply with federal demandsfor the state's National Guard troops?Is Robbie saying that, like, a governor would have to,well, no, I think that's what we're saying.
52:18I'm arguing the exact opposite point,that the governor has the ability,if the federal government is going so far,As currently the National Guard reports to the governor under normal circumstances.The remedy to this is, and the whole reason why the Federal Guard Act was originally created, remember.But they've been federalized many times.I understand that.But here's the difference, though.
52:41You can federalize the National Guard.You cannot federalize a militia.That's the difference.And what a governor can do is.But who's the militia?The militia is you, okay, so according to the Militia Act of 1894, the Militia Act is every able-bodied,of the age of 15 up to 60.That's the militia.
53:00Yeah, but they have to join, right?I mean, like, that's not organized.But it's organized now because it's been neglected.But the premise is still there.So what the argument would be is how many...So while you're trading the militia, U.S. troops are marching into your state.Ted, listen to me.So if you have a president who tells, who federalizes the National Guard,
53:18says, okay, you are going to be positioned in these, like, say, if you're a nationalguardsman from St. Louis.And then you have a president that's going to come out and say,you're going to do this and the governor of your state that you live in says no you need to defend yourstate at that point you mr militia you soldier man you have a choice to make are you going tostand with your state against a tyrannical federal government or you're going to stand with theor you're going to say the tyrant if you're like that it's a choice that you have to make youwho you would report to you cannot serve two masters are you going to serve your state or you're
53:49going to serve trump i know but you don't even the oath that you don't even that doesn't need to bea legality issueThat's a person, you.100%.And that's the point that I'm making.Meaning, and that's what we said, nullify.Correct.Yeah, but that's like not a legal nullification.
54:08That's more of a practical nullification.Ted, you are so wrong on this.The National Guard Act is an act of Congress.It does not supersede the Constitution.The consulate the militia is a constitutional institution.The Militia Act, which has my favorite name for any act, the Dick Act,It was the Dick Act was largely superseded by the National Guard Act, right?So it's not gone, but it's sort of like hollowed out in a huge way.
54:36That's why it's in the Constitution, too.The only institution, in fact check me on this, the only institution that the Constitutioncalls necessary is the militia.And it's because they understood back then political power goes out of the barrel of a rifle.But you're trying to get people into an 1804 mentality.I mean, it's no, I'm not.Trump is.Good luck in a series of fast-moving events, which is what we're talking about here.
55:02100%.I mean, this is like, you know, Trump announces two days after the election.The election's invalid because there was widespread cheating.Okay, now, issues are ticking down in a matter of hours and days.Your Militia Act is not going to be relevant.It's up to the-It's up to the people- It's up to the people-Are you going to stay with your home or are you going to stay with some
55:24tyrant in D.C. But you don't need to act for that. You just need to be a person for that.But Trump is right. But Ted's making the legal argument. I'm not.But there's, but there's, but this is not really a legal issue at that point.Because the law has effectively been nullified. This is okay, now what do we do as people.Yeah.Any particular space together that have to now make decisions about a large. And once the,and frankly, once the president has gone rogue to that extent, I think.All bets are off, right?
55:56I mean, at that point, nobody's like spending a lot of time, like, but the Seventh Amendment says, you know, nobody's care.Nobody cares about that shit anymore.It becomes just about power.Well, it would be, I mean, it would be an 1860 situation, right?It would be like, no, Fort Sopter gets fired on.Lincoln's calling up 30,000 federal troops.The notice goes out in some, in Atmore, Alabama.And do you have to decide, okay, am I going to stand with my state or am I going to stand with Lincoln?
56:24I mean, that's the kind of choice that it's a very fast-moving thing.I agree.And ultimately, what's going to happen is that people in this country are going to have to decide where do your loyalty stand?You have to get off the fence, actually put your apathy aside for like 10 seconds and make a fucking choice.Robbie, people are not even people are not politically entranced.This would just fucking chaos.Like it's not, I don't think it's like, you have two sides and these two sides are fighting each other.And they have, I don't think it's that.
56:54I think it's just fucking chaos.That's what I really do.It's not like, if you say, hey, you know,the reason that gas went up is because Houthi's bombed Saudi Aramco.Like what?What do you mean?Yeah, yeah.They don't know that shit.
57:10Like, they don't even, like, I would be hard pressed to even know if they know, like,some of the politics that's taking place in country, let alone these larger themes of liberty.Go into the streets of, like, let's say, a.relatively well-educated city, like, you know, San Francisco, and ask people,you know, who's the president of France? I'll give you a hundred bucks, if you can tell me.You're not losing a lot of C-notes.Nobody cares about that.Listen, they don't know anything is the point.
57:41It comes out, well, we know it's not normal to have federal troops standing atpull-pice, at polling stations.That's something that's abnormal.That's something that doesn't happen.True.This is not the frog being boiled.slowly. But there's a lot of shitthat became weird, that becomes weird
57:57and the people put up with. Peopleput up with the license plate readers.People put up with the fact that theirTV spies on them. Peopleput up with having to take off their shoesfor no reason at the airport.My TV watches.I was about to say something inappropriate.
58:14Yeah, yeah.AndI was like, your TV watches you, you know,like, oh shit. Yeah.Yeah.That's terrifying.But I mean, it's like the point is that people put people get normal, you know, weird shit gets normalized.Fascism gets normalized.
58:30I mean, you walk by, I walk by these like wet behind the ears kids in Penn Station with guns as tall as long as they are tall.And it's like, that's weird.I'm like, why are you even here?I feel less safe because you're here.And what do I do?I have hurt my eyes.I try, no eye contact, walk as quickly as I can past them.try to pretend like I'm normal. Good doggie, good doggy, you're a good doggy, don't bite me.
58:57That's what we do. And National Guard in D.C. now. I mean, Trump deployed National Guard.Again, this is the whole thing about ICE and the National Guard being deployed in places where they're not necessary, right?D.C. It's like they're not like, they're not pulling people out of floodwaters. This is about, this is about normalizing, you know, a militarized federal presence on the streets of American cities.behooven to the president of the U.S.Correct.Yeah, with your own personal goon squad of ICE goonsand a bunch of other three-letter agenciesthat most people have never even heard of.
59:36Yeah.Okay, we have some.So Tara Freda Wilde saysModern Supremacy Clause interpretationis deeply unconstitutional.It was never intended to be used as Ted is describing.Well, I love to hear from a constitutional lawyer about this.but it's how it's used.
59:53I think it's pretty clear.They better large troops when they went in with the school,with the black school kit.And Supreme Court has ruled that way repeatedly.Degregation now.Also says Ted and Jamarle are boomering heavily, L.O.L.Boomering, boomering, I guess, as in to be a boomer.I think Robbie is correct.
01:00:13This digital design.49.Maybe boomering.Yeah.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.Let's see.Richie.Robbie can run for Senate because he'd need 100 mil to do so.
01:00:27I bet you could do it for 50.Oh, Ray says, Ted, I found a copy of Together CD from the Vapers on eBay.And thanks for the $5 for $129.This current still available, thank you.Actually, believe it or not, I reached out to the band and they sent me one.So that was very, very cool.Yeah.It is cool.
01:00:47Yeah.They're still around.So that was fantastic.But thanks, Ray, for keeping an eye out, though.$129 is a little rich for a CD, but I would have considered it.You know, but I'm trying to think, probably $75 of the most I've ever paid for a CD.And I'm like, wow, that's a lot of money.But if you really want something, you really got to have it.
01:01:09Okay, so, all right, we are now in the Q&A part of the show.So I'll put up that little banner.So if you have a question, I've been in.Priority goes to the paid ones.But we're going to keep talking about the day's news while we do that.Okay, should we talk about Boulder?We could talk about that.We're on a Supreme Court kick.
01:01:32It seems like a natural segue.So the city of Boulder, Colorado has sued Suncorr energy and ExxonMobil.These are, of course, two huge energy conglomerates.And basically, it has shades of the big tobacco lawsuits of the 1980s.And it's also like the social media lawsuits, where basically they're claiming that the big energy companies deceived the people,and specifically the city of Boulder and the citizens of Colorado about how harmful fossil fuels were going back decades.So the argument is it's almost like a.product liability lawsuit where they're saying, look, you guys create a product that causes a lot of harm
01:02:24and that like the tobacco lawsuits, the argument was we have to pay for medical care because ofpeople who get lung cancer and other diseases caused by your product. And we want to be compensatedfor the costs that we've been forced to bear. In the city of Boulder, I mean, obviously like anymunicipality has had to deal with things related to climate change directly or indirectly.And so basically, to try to drive a stake through the lawsuit before it ever gets off the ground,knowing, of course, that if this works, states and municipalities all over the country willdecide to go after this giant pile of cash that companies like this have.All over the world.
01:03:11All over the world.Right.They're going to the U.S.So they went to the all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, which is today considering arguments,not about the case itself, but whether it can move forward.So basically, they're trying to kill this lawsuit in its crib.And they're trying to ask the outstanding, even to bring something this.Correct.
01:03:32I mean, that's not just boulder.That's planet.I mean, climate change is a planetary.This is all.So by the way, it's pretty funny.One of the, one of a conservative lobbyist where the,company was like this is a bunch of rich hippies because you know Boulder like a white right richhippie of Colorado well yeah it's not going to be poor hippies who you know who bring this who bring up a
01:03:54expensive you know federal lawsuit all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court the shit costs money rightso yeah it's basically a very liberal country only to rich down young right yeah exactly so the richhippies are brought this lawsuit um you know I'm a littlecynical about this because I know from the history of the big tobacco lawsuits that all thosebillions of dollars were never used to try to like curtail smoking. It was just a giantslush fund for the states. But anyway, it's an interesting fucking story. So here we are.God, that's fascinating. I need to think about it. It is, right? It's so interesting. Because I mean,I can argue this one either way. I mean, on the one, on the one hand, I think, look, I think the
01:04:43plaintiffs have a point, which is like, look, you guys were selling an obviouslya very harmful product, right? Like a product that causes immense amounts of air pollutionand environmental degradation that changes the very climate of the place you live. Boulder,Colorado's in the mountains, the mountains are, you know, you can only, you can look at Nepalto see what happens to mountains due to rising average temperatures. There's, you know,there's probably, there's wildfires, all sorts of municipalities.municipalities have to deal with this at the same time you know we all kind of know that like energyinfrastructure is also essential to the capitalist economy and you can't really function without it in
01:05:27the 20th and 21st centuries and kind of like really are we going to go after this legal productwhich tobacco was too right you know if it was so dangerous why wasn't just banned by the federalgovernment so you you leave a product you allow a product to be soldand then, you know, openly, and then you basically let the people be sued to death, you know, bymunicipalities who are, by the way, not really going to use the money for anything other than just like,you know, buying new computer systems, ironically, and giving themselves raises and stuff.That's what happens with the tobacco money.So I can really, I mean, I can have some sympathy for the devil, Exxon.
01:06:10I can also understand where Boulder is coming from.A thousand exon, I would argue, it's misplaced.It's like suing, it's like a black person suing a slave owner for slavery.It's like, dude, it was legal.How are you suing me for this?It's like, or suing gun owners.How are you suing the gun owner for a legal product that they put onto the marketwhen every metric was legal?
01:06:35How is it our fault?I think it's kind of like that.I think the culprit is government in this.Meaning if they were head to sue anybody, they should sue the government.But the government is, as you know, it's impossible to sue the government.I know.But then how can they sue the company?Like, don't be wrong.
01:06:51I get it.It's kind of like tobacco, right?But the difference is tobacco, I was smoking individually.I smoked.You could probably sue any company for almost anything, right?Like, you could sue McDonald's for selling unhealthy food that's causing people to have heart attacks and strokes.You could sue, you could sue, you know, you could sue, you know,What's the big motorcycle company?
01:07:16You know, whatever.You could sue any company that makes, Harley.You could sue Harley Davidson.Because like, yeah, because they make a product that spread,that every year splatters people's brains across, you know,the asphalt all over the country, right?I mean, you can go on and on.But usually it's something that the product did that was a liability
01:07:38associated with the product that people are suing it with.You riding a motorcycle, I'm being bad at riding a motorcycle.sure, you could say, well, the seat is a little too high,and so people fall off a little bit more.So, okay, you can do that, right?But I'm talking about a credible honest lawsuit.And this one is super interesting.So a lot of it has, this lawsuit,
01:07:53this lawsuit and the nicotine lawsuit,both rely on the claim that there was deception,that the company said, they didn't say,listen, we know we're making a product that has entail some societal risks.And by the way, here's those warnings, right?Ironically, like the warning labels that tobacco companies have been ordered to put on their productshelps indemnify them from future lawsuits because now everybody who picks up a pack of cigarettes can read,well, oh, this is bad for you.
01:08:28The argument here is that ExxonMobil, when you pull up at the gas station, at the Exxon Station,it doesn't say, you know, hey, this shit's killing the planet, you know, have a nice day.But how does that affect?But for one, what's the alternative?There's that.I mean, you can go and just walk.God bless you.It will be good for you.
01:08:52You'll probably live longer.I don't know how many people make a choice.And two, governments allowed this stuff to be put all over the place.And supposedly, the government did due diligence in regards to checking the efficacy and the safety of the product that was being put up.Meaning, they're not, like, for example, it's not like,a doctor coming on TV saying, hey, cigarettes are great.And you could jog them out after smoking a pack.Right? And the way the doctors used to do,
01:09:16the doctors used to come on to do commercials for cigarettes,meaning they actively lied to people who ended up getting cancerfrom the product that they were used.This feels different to me.Like this, this comes across like as a societal issue,not an individual boulder issue.And how on earth can you, as an individual state,or let's say area,
01:09:39sue for the globe.And what does that even mean?Like what is that?Like what's the, how do they compensate you for that?Like, I don't even know how that works.I guess I don't know, okay, let me actually this.What are they asking for in the lawsuit?So I think that it's like most product liability lawsuits,
01:09:58they're leaving it to the jury, right?So it's kind of like we claim that we sufferedthis expense and that expense and this other expenseand we're leaving it up to the court,when we finally make it to trial,assuming we get a positive verdict,to determine how much we should get.Now, does each individual person get that money?
01:10:16Because otherwise, I don't care about this.Like, I think, no, of course not.Of course not.You know it's going to the city of Boulder.If they're making the argument,the argument should go to people,because the argument is being made of,look, you've damaged our citizens.
01:10:31They're gonna live shorter, more desperate lives,but whatever their factor is,whether it's a second, whether it's a minute,as a result of what you're doing.You're killing the world as a result,and this is how it's affecting the people.Okay, it's affecting individuals.But if you give a bunch of money to Boulder,
01:10:47what is Boulder gonna do to fix this damage,this situation?Like, this is why I find this to be a bit dodgy.If they're trying to make the pointof saying that these companies are ruined in the planetand the companies must do somethingto prevent themselves from ruining the planet further,okay, then I get it.
01:11:05Well, here's what they're asking for specifically, right?So for the city of Boulder,And look, you and I both know there's going to be, if this moves forward, there's going to be thousands of these suits, right?They're asking for compensation for past and future local costs like extreme heat waves, so, you know, cooling centers and so on, droughts, floods, destructive wildfires, et cetera.But how do you compensate for those things?And also the, so the defense is they say that local damages from global climate change can't be pinned on individual companies and that federal law should take precedence over state-level climate lawsuits.And also they're also blaming.They're saying it's a global problem.
01:11:54Like climate change, it's all one, you know, Chinese companies could, you know, have contributed to climate change.So, you know, why just them?how could you quantify it?I mean, it's not like tobacco.Tobacco, you certainly like, you know,Chinese cigarettes are not, you know,are not being sold in the United States.So that's easy.
01:12:15You have Russian gas, Saudi gas,Chinese manufacturers and refineries.The U.S. has air companies,but you have companies all over the world that's causing it.Oh, man, I don't like it.I want, like, philosophically,I want to say yes to this.I want to be full-throated in my yes to this.
01:12:32Yeah, it's how I feel about reparations.for you know for for for for descendants of slaves like philosophically i'm all for it i just don'tsee how you make it how you do it legally give people a check but that one easy give people a checkand give me a sure but like for example okay but like do rich black people get as much money aspoor black people do do black people who are not descendants of slaves get any money nobecause they were not descendants of slaves differences but they're still victims of racism whichstems from the legacy of slavery.That's different than the situation of people being descendants of slaves.
01:13:09They weren't here for that.I'm saying...But I mean, there's a lot of arguments, right?No, no, I get the arguments.Anybody will argue because they want to check.Fair enough, right?Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what?Or even people like me, who I'm pretty sure no 23 and me is going to reveal that I have any
01:13:26secret black ancestry.But I mean, you're trying to just be logical, like, okay, what's the best way to do this?I mean, you know, I mean, there's just a lot of different ways to look at.That's all I'm saying.You find that people were descendants of slaves and you get my check.Give me what's what's equal to 40 acres of me.How much?And should it be pro rata or should it be, you know, like, come on.
01:13:48Like if you're, if you're ditty, do you get the same check as a guy who's sleeping outside last night?I mean, you know, I don't know.I want everybody who is the descendants of slave get 40 acres and one mule.and they can do with that 40 acres and that one mule, whatever they want.By the way, I always wanted to know, like, you know, that, that mule is sterile.What happens when he dies?Well, that's what's fucked up about the U.S. government, right?They gave him a mule.
01:14:13They didn't give him a horse.Shouldn't it be two donkeys instead?It's like, when that thing dies, that's the end of it.Fuck those black people.That's when the white farmer next door swoops in and buys the land for pennies on the dollar.It's a nice piece of, nice of 40 acres you got there.And by the way, most people would sell it because most people don't want to be out in the thing, right?I'm just saying it doesn't have to be complicated in a way that they're making it.
01:14:39And there are obviously people who are like, well, I'm black.So I want it too.It's like, yeah, but you want to send it.Yeah, but a guy called me an N-word 20 years ago.So I just gave a check.No, dude, you don't.I mean, I think there's an argument there.I mean, you know.
01:14:53There's an argument for anything.And then, of course, it's like, okay, so if we're going to compensate, if we're going to compensate black people, all right.So what about like Asian, what about descendants of people who, Chinese coolies who built the railroads, right?I mean, what about them?I mean, they were brought over here and oppressed and treated like shit.They weren't.They weren't property.That's a choice that they made.
01:15:14They still, they're still oppressed.They can make that arguments for why they should be compensated.I'm talking about people who use this property, who the government didn't pay because they were slaves and should be compensated for the labor that they gave this government.That's what I'm referring.What do they do except build the entire?I mean, that's all they did was build most of the country.But, okay.I mean, I would not be opposed to my wife and my kids getting a check.
01:15:40I want your wife and kids to get that check probably.I mean, they're, they're, back off, Whitey, you don't get any of that.I mean, they are the, yeah, I just put the kids in there.But the point is that they are the direct descendants of slaves.Yeah, I'm team JT on this.I'm all for.Look, I'm all for it.I just, I'm just talking.
01:15:57I just have questions about the execution.I mean, if you pull a Somali and come over here, sorry, you're excluded.I apologize.We'll pay for your deportation, though.Well, she's not even, she's not black as far as I know.Well, no.Well, no, it's not so safe.You pull a Sonali.
01:16:15Like, if you come over here and say, oh, by the way, I'm entitled to do this.No.Yeah.See, I don't think why.I don't understand why this is so complicated, to be honest.A check is very straightforward.People just take issue with the check part.It's like, I don't want to give these people.
01:16:27money, why not? It's like, meaning they take issue with it. They try to make come up withcomplicated ways. Well, maybe we can have services and help them with education and helpthem blah, blah, blah, blah. Dude.Oh, yeah. Well, it's not like, it's not like American society didn't have like 150 years to dothat, right? So, or more. Okay, so.Just give the check. P. Walker. Client says climate change is just another mechanism used todraw time and energy away from real problems that would imperil the ownership class.If you look at energy trends, fossil fuels is actually peaking. Well, that's true.
01:17:06I'm not sure if that's entirely true. I mean, like, let me answer this. Would big,would big business prefer this not be an issue? I think they would prefer not be an issue.I think they want to get back to business. I think for them, but the point is we all, all these,I mean, you know, the biggest green companies in the world are companies like ExxonMobil, right?invest more in green energy than anyone else because they're leveraging and they know that's the futureright so right but i mean there's a lot more money there's a lot more money to be made in new technologiesthan in maintaining old ones so you know if you could build all the infrastructure for all the chargingstations all over the place there's a lot more money in that than just selling you know oil and gas
01:17:46is there i mean especially if you have to get the investment in you have to put the money into itand everything else you have all of these people screaming make a profit on all of that shitI mean it doesn't want to be invested in that stuff only because of the energy that was being put into this idea that there was a climate issue.I don't know.I don't take it as fate.I know some people do.I don't take it's fake.I mean, well, climate change is real.
01:18:08I mean, there's no question about that, I think.If it's real, we have to do something, right?Especially if we're causing it.Well, it's probably too late.But, yeah.Ted, look at the, Phillips says, Ted, look at the infrastructure, transportation infrastructure in U.S. cities versus Europeans.cities big oil lobbied our governments to pull out our trams we got clumped which islying in my house now big tobacco what do you mean well if i mean like when i was in europe i had no
01:18:42issue with transport i didn't have a car i had no issue getting from point a point b everything wasgood it was relatively cheap it was relatively inexpensive i can always get on a tram or subway or somethinglike that to get anywhere pretty much in any city that I went to. You're independent.When you go partially blind, then driving becomes a difficult thing. Because there's a sectionof sight that I just can't see, like out on my left eye, where your site is trying to reconcilethe fact that there's a hole in it, but it doesn't exactly tell you there's a hole. And so you find outthere's a hole in it when something falls into the hole. It's like your brain is trying to reconcileout the two things. It doesn't always do it. Sometimes it looks like you're looking out of two
01:19:23things. But oftentimes it's like you're putting two together. It's giving you a complete worlduntil you're walking and hit something. Okay, well, that becomes a difficult thing to drive.So your eyes are kind of lying to you. Yes, right. The reality is not exactly the way the realityis that it's a bias in a particular way. And so what you means is when you're in the U.S.,there's no trams, there's no subway, there's none of that stuff. Either you drive or you stay at home.it sucksyeah he's rightEurope is different
01:19:53that's why we should build bases on the moonlet's fix our let's fix our house firstI knowremember there was athere was a plan for a moon tramtoorightit's like
01:20:04well we obviously should be fixing baseson the moonconsidering we'll have high speed railin outer spacejust not hereRyanBig Tobacco used the moneyto target their biggest
01:20:16competitorwhich was vaping.They were very successful in convincing Americans that vaping is dangerous or even more dangerous than smoking.Well, you know, by the way, there are now people, this is true,who are taking up cigarettes, classic old-school cigarette smoking in order to quit vaping.That's amazing.That's amazing.It's like they fundamentally miss the point.
01:20:39You're supposed to stop.Go back to cigarette.Yeah.C-Cratz, longtime listener, new member.And thanks very much for the very generous 1999 donations.In light of the recent botched execution in Tennessee,would you consider having a deeper discussion of the death penalty?I sent a guest recommendation to the podcast Gmail account.
01:21:03Thank you.Thank you for those recommendations.We'll reach out.Yeah, no, I think we both really find the death penalty to be a fascinating conversation.Yeah, no, totally.I'd love to talk about it more because there's a lot.A lot of layers to it.By the way,
01:21:21Krista Pike is still on a ventilator,still unconscious after they tried to,after the fucking jackasses in Tennesseetried to kill her last week.It's been now, what, four or five nightsthat she's basically subsisting.I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up like a vegetableand just, you know, stays unconscious for a long time.
01:21:45If she dies, it's what they want.which makes it that, that, I don't, I don't, dumb.I can't even find a sophisticated word for it.You try to kill a woman.It's so fucking stupid.And then you try to save her life with the idea of killing her later because you don't want her to die like this.You want her to die in a way that you decide you want her to die.It's like, okay, that's, that's on the level.
01:22:13I know this.Yeah, this is the, we want you to die like this.It's not like that.Not like that.I mean, if she had tried to commit suicide, they would have stopped her.Yeah.Right?It would save their life.
01:22:28And they'd execute their days later.If she'd gone on hunger strike, they would have foie grasped her and force fed her.Yep.Think about that.Like, that's pretty wild.No, no, no.It's crazy.You got like this.
01:22:39If she had a heart attack two days before her scheduled execution date, they would have revived her.It's cartoonish.And it puts you to mind of like stuff.the robots do where you look at it and be like oh a human being would never do that that's so dumb and yet here we areyeah it's so insanely stupid like at bcdonaldas you say i would like a cup filled with ice and it's likebut it only allows me to hit the button twice and then there's of course the question of like okay so let'sjust say take those then there's okay let's just say you know they had succeeded in killing herI'm just wondering what exactly the, you know, the victim's family gets out of that.
01:23:19Like, okay, so in some kind of abstract, well, okay, so someone kills your loved one.Okay, you hate them.Of course you do.That's normal.You want them dead also normal.But let's say, but it's an abstraction, right?I mean, you never see them.They're in some cell in a prison, not where you.
01:23:41live you'll never hear from them they're not they're not on TV you're never it's not like forexample you know breckavanaugh they don't exist Brett cavanaugh was accused of you know ofby that lady of of having you know sexually assaulted her in college um and she basically putshe didn't say anything until he was up for for not for confirmation before because it was kindlike he's going to be in the U.S. Supreme Court. I'm going to have to hear this and see thisfucker all the time. That goes too far. It's one thing for him to be like a federal judge.That's relatively obscure. But like now I have to fucking deal with this guy being a nationalcelebrity. So that's why she stepped forward like a blazy for it. Okay. This is kind of like
01:24:30that like there's no world in which you're going to have to constantly be reminded that this,this bitch killed your loved one.You're not, you're not going to have to worry about that.She's locked away.She's gone.She's like been thrown into a hole.She might as well be dead to the world.It's like whether she's physically breathing or not,
01:24:49it's purely,it's Schrodinger's cat, right?I mean, does it matter?No, it does matter.Why?I know he exists.Why?So it's an abstraction.
01:24:59I could lie to you and say,oh, we killed her and she's dead.And then now you feel better?Well, it's a lie.And you can lie to anybody.But let's just say you don't know it's a lie.Let's just say I just tell you like, oh, hey, it's the governor.You can lie to anybody about anything.
01:25:15I'm saying something that you said about this person killed this person and this other person now no longer exists.Me knowing that the person no longer exists matters to me.Now, you can say you can lie, but you can lie to anybody about anything.Like what does it matter?My point is let's just say I was able to successfully lie, right?philosophically and psychologically, you'd be just as happy as if you read them, you know,if it wouldn't matter to you. You'd be like, okay, good. Justice has been served. This,this woman is gone. Under that model, you'd be fine.
01:25:48Anybody about anything. So maybe we should just lie to people and just keep them in prisonand just lie and just say like, oh yeah, we call them and just leave them alive. Let's justpretend Donald Trump won the election. Let's just pretend for example. Right. I mean, I guess my pointis you can lie to anybody about it.Yeah, but Donald Trump's on TV.And like, you know what I mean?And so you, my point is that you don't know.He's not a real person.
01:26:12Maybe it's just an animation.He's AI.Rejecting to the thing.Yeah, maybe he's AI.I mean, I'm pointing you can lie to anybody with anything.We're not talking about lies.We're talking about real world stuff in a sense of about a person being executed.But it's not real to you.
01:26:24It's not real to you.If someone is in prison, like in a maximum security prison for the rest of their life,they are effectively dead to you.No, they're not.They exist in a prison.It's not like having to go to the 7-11and you see that asshole who killed your loved one,you know, enjoying a slurpy, right?
01:26:44Does Austria exist?Does Britain exist?Does Britain exist?These things exist.Austria exists if you go,but like if you never go, it doesn't.No, it still does.I'm not one of those people who believe that it's because you don't see something
01:26:57that it doesn't, you know, this idea that,well, I'm not in Australia.So Australia is not really there.But it appears when I go, it exists.Yeah, I've never been to Australia, but I believe Australia exists.Thank you.But I'm saying is, but it doesn't offend.It doesn't exist.
01:27:12Are those real things?But the issue here is, yeah.But I'm just saying, the point I'm trying to make here is that, you know, if a person,it shouldn't fucking matter to you as like a survivor of a horrible crime,whether this person is fucking like dead or alive in their little hole.You tell somebody what should matter to them after they're the victim of a horrible crime.If I'm sitting in the room where that person gets executed, I see that person die.That's real to me.
01:27:44I don't even go about my life.It shouldn't matter.I mean, like, meaning you're saying it shouldn't matter.And I'm saying, who are you to tell somebody what should or shouldn't matter to them after they deal with a violent crime?If you kill my kid and you're now telling me that, well, it shouldn't really matter to you, whether the person lives or not.Who'd ever you to tell a person?What did you matter of that?Well, you've never had feelings that later you assessed it to be wrong?
01:28:07True.That's everybody.It's just been a person.But you are saying that they are accessing it to be wrong.I'm assessing that this is something that they probably should be satisfied.We should teach people to be satisfied with life imprisonment in situations like this.I mean, let me put this way.If you were raised as a, if you were another way to look at it is if you were raised as a from babyhood to not know that death penalty was ever a thing.
01:28:38Nobody had ever done it.It was never an option.And that like the most extreme penalty allowed under human law is and always has been life in prison without parole, then it wouldn't even occur to you.Like, oh, but we could also kill people or, I mean, hell, we could, I guess now we torture them too, right?But the point is that we would it just wouldn't occur to you.You'd be like, well, the maximum sentence is life in prison without parole.And you'd be in if the person who killed your loved one got that, you would be satisfiedbecause you would be convinced they got the ultimate punishment.
01:29:14You don't know that.I mean, there are all sorts of things that people are taught that they go outside the boundsin regards to believing what they could or can't necessarily do.People were told, you know, drugs are bad.still did drugs. People were told killing is bad. People still kill. People were told rape is bad.In doctrine, you know, heavily put, rape is a bad thing. People still rape. People do all sorts ofthings that go beyond the bounds of what they were effectively taught as human beings becausehuman beings have certain impulses. And one of which you kill somebody in my family, I'm going to
01:29:45want you dead. And I'm going to be perfectly okay with you being dead.Like, look, I would agree with you that, but that's sacrosan. That doesn't all. That doesn'tultimately mean anything. If you were raised in Japan as a samurai, you would think that this was themost normal thing in the world and you would function around that with various degrees of goingoutside the boundaries one way or the other. In Afghanistan, stoning is acceptable.Shameless self-plugged this Friday on the Bible study, Ted and I are going to be making,are going to be talking. I would have been making the biblical case for the death penalty.So there's something that interests you. You may want to tune in.
01:30:21Now, to be fair, I'm not making a case for the death penalty.because again, I'm conflicted on it.I make it a case of, I guess, for my own personal thing, of if you kill somebody,hell, if you kill my dog, I'm going to be okay with watching me.Get the match.Look, yeah, I mean, there's a certain newspaper publisher from Southern Californiawho I would love who watch Breathe his last.God, please God, please God.
01:30:47I will believe in you if you make that happen.All right.I gotta be honest with you.The guy that raped me, I didn't really care what happens.I don't blame you.I don't care when I...I guess my one is, it's difficult to tell somebodyyou should feel this way about a person that victimized you.
01:31:09But it's one thing for it.Our socialization teaches people how to feel about being victimized, right?Like, for example, we're all taught, like, if you're fired unfairly,like, just because, yeah, you didn't do anything wrong.You worked hard.but let's just say your president decided to pick on Russiaand just decided to have you fired.You're supposed to just sort of pick yourself up
01:31:31and not kill the fucker who did this to you, right?Like you're supposed to just live with it.We all, and then, but you're a victim,but you're supposed to just not do anything about it.You know, if you are ripped off by a company,you're supposed to basically be like, oh, that sucksand maybe I'll take them those small claims, but probably not.I'm just saying like if we socialize people to say,
01:31:52the maximum punishment for any crime is one year in prison,then we would all be satisfied with what year at prison.That's all I'm saying.It's socialization.I get that point, but you can make that argument about some of anything.Like, hey, if people were socialized, not to be capitalist,if people were socialized to be more loving and kind,if people were socialized, that's...
01:32:13I believe that.That's on a subway, and that would be okay.Like, there's all sorts of things that you can say if people were socialized for.I would argue, though, that a lot of this stuff and the reason why people act this wayit's because of a human nature and an impulse to defend the things that you care about.And when somebody takes away a life, something that has all the magnificent abilities associated with a lifeand the impact of the life on the people around them, it is the most natural thing in the world,meaning caveman philosophy on what the person did.
01:32:41I'm trying to say that.You can socialize people.That is a question.That's a psychological question, too.That may be fair.But it's what we don't.And, you know, I get your point.Yeah.
01:32:53Yeah, it's kind of hard to talk about it.You shouldn't feel some way about it.I would happily rack up $5,000 in credit card debt, which is the worst kind of debtthat there is that there is to go and watch the person of murder my sister breathe hislaugh's breath.Yeah, that's pretty cheap, I think.But it's just that's a lot more than $5,000 to have someone killed.I know, but can you really tell Robbie?
01:33:16You shouldn't feel that way like that.Because I think that argument is insane to me.I guess you, I mean, let's just say if that.Where is that? Is that person in prison now?Yeah. That person was in prison. He was led on a technicality.He was in prison. He was in prison. He got let on a technicality.Bobby, let's just say you could be assured that that person would, you know, by God himself,that prison, that he was going to be in prison the rest of his life and was never going to leave.
01:33:49Would that be better than the current situation, right?Sure.Okay.But like, so would that satisfy you to some?I mean, what's the difference between that and like knowing that he's dead?Because it comes down to a matter of justice and of restitution.He took every one of my sisters tomorrow's from her in the most violent way that he could possibly do it.There is no, there is no repaying that except for the spilling of blood.
01:34:19Sorry.No, I understand that.And you can call me a phyllis.a barbarian, whatever it is.And by the way.And not you specifically.Yeah, that's a good question.How did he get out?
01:34:30Yeah.And he got out.Yeah.You got a technicality.So the technicality was that the signature that was done on the warrant was put onthe wrong line.What?And he got out.
01:34:42He got out.Like even under the thing that's postulated.Yeah.They could even.Oh.So the evidence was, was tainted.Oh, for sure.And so.
01:34:53And so my sister.my niece she was there she's five years old at the time she i was holding her and she was cryingsaid why can't my mama come home where's my mama i want my mama to come home and trying to explainto her that your mom you're never going to see your mom again on this earth is a hard thing so untiluntil you've walked a mile in my shoes please don't lecture me about the barbarity of the deaththe penalty. Yeah. I've neversaid this guy doesn't deserve to die.Yeah. And again, if Robbie killed him,
01:35:32I'd have no problem with it.I don't want vigilante justice.I'm more in favor of vigilante justicethan societal justice.Because we're not good atsocietal justice.Our society is not good at it.Well, I don't think we're going to vigilanteism either.
01:35:50And most things aren't perfect, right?So this is not me making an argument that I think the Justice Department is perfect at a thing that it does.But between people of families going out trying to find the person who did the crime or enacting justice for the crime.Okay, well, there's still the faculty of discerning who actually did the particular crime.I don't want an innocent person being stoned at death.Well, for that matter, just ran a family when we're not killing people.I don't, that's not what I want.I mean, if we need it as a state, like look, again, I mean, I mean, I'm.
01:36:22dicey with the death penalty. And I know my argument that I'm making is convoluted because it's sayingtwo things at once. If it's me and my own, then yes, I'm for it. And so on some level, I'm stuck withthis notion of being honest and saying I have to give grace to other people who are also for it when it'sabout them and their own, which kind of breaks this whole point of like, okay, well, how will you be thelefty? Lefties are usually against the death penalty. I don't think the state does the shit right.It's just that.So I don't know.I agree with that.
01:36:54Yeah, no.And that's cool.All right.We got a couple more questions.We got a couple more topics to hit.And we're moving in a nice clip, but it would be, we should do it.So do you usually.Sorry, go ahead.
01:37:09No, no.I just say it's 10 third date.We're in Q&A.Yeah, yeah.All right.More cues, more A's.Let us know.All right.
01:37:16So a lady named Heather Jean,She's a realtor from Irvine, California, that's in Southern California, was just arrested over the weekend by the FBI.She was about to board a flight from LAX to Shanghai.She's been arrested for spying for the Chinese government, but they only charged her under FARA, right, as an unregistered agent of a foreign governor, government.So she and an accomplice, not her husband, who's also a realtor for the same firm, are accused of,flying from LA to Seattle in September of last year and photographing the house of the son of the president of Taiwan, Ching Ti Lai.Are you serious?That's literally it.
01:38:04I was like, so if you take pictures of, so I don't understand.So if the flock camera takes pictures of you, that's totally cool and that's legal.if the NSA takes pictures of you through your TV or your laptop, that's cool.If the Google car drives by your house and takes a picture of your house, that's cool.But if I go to the house and take a picture, I'm a spy?Yes, you'll be a French spy.The issues that are any person taking pictures of things.Like, imagine, so any random.
01:38:43So any random Chinese person.I guess that could be a stalker as an American.It's just wow.So any random Chinese person who takes a picture of something,by definition,end up being called a spy,especially if they're going back to Chinawith the pictures that they took of things.
01:38:58So it's like, oh, here's the Taiwan president's house.And they're like, that person is obviously a spybecause they're Chinese and they're taking a pictureat the Taiwanese thing.So much for Star Maps in Hollywood, right?Yeah, it's just insane.I mean, the fair thing, by the way, we've seen this.Maria Butima, if you remember.
01:39:15She was considered a sex spy.They said all sorts of things about, oh, she's a sex spy.She's a honeypot.She's this.She's that.They kept her in jail for months and come to find out the only thing to charge her under was fair.Yeah.The fair thing.
01:39:30She sure was cute, though.She could have been a sex spy.She was very attractive.Yeah.It's very attractive.It's like a honeypot.It's like, really for who?But no, when she ends up going back to Russia and when she's telling the story,
01:39:42she's talking about like basically being abused, which is what the U.S. government didto her. There was nothing behind this. There was nothing behind it. I mean, are you telling me thatChina doesn't have better ways as opposed to taking a house of the Taiwanese president as if peopledon't know where the house is? Yeah. You can go Google Earth. Like it's a house on above ground.And they don't think that somebody from China may be interested in taking a picture of theTaiwanese president's house just because it's the town of the town.when he's president's house or whoever.Right.
01:40:15Exactly.Right.Like this is so,like we cannot just lock people up randomlybecause we're at oddsand countrywise for stuff that.Apparently we can't,but we probably shouldn't.
01:40:29Yeah.That's outrageous.That's the only thing they have on her,just to be very clear.Like they didn't have micro-ish,multiple passports.Nope.Multiple guns.
01:40:39Nope.No secret.No secret plastic guns.and no, like, no Mission Impossible pulling her face off.Like, you know, she doesn't hang from the ceiling like Tom Cruise.She doesn't have variety skills, nothing like that.No, she doesn't have the skills of the mad skills of the Israeli plumber.Yeah, right, right.
01:41:01So the only thing they have from her is, well, she's obviously a spy because she took pictures of the Taiwanese president's house.Yeah.That's silly.I suspect they're going to drop these charges and kick her out of the country.What do you think?I don't know.I mean, look at what they did with Butino.I mean, they kept her in prison for months.
01:41:24And I was about to study chicken Canada.They're going to try to shake her down for info.That's what they're going to do, right?They might.I mean, because this is very thin in regards to the arrest.Yeah.If I'm her, I only have one thing to say, lawyer.Give me my lawyer.
01:41:42lawyer my fucking lawyer that's it and so he took pictures she obviously is guiltyshe took pictures right okay let's just say for the sake of argument okay we knowthat she let's just say that she drove she went oh she went to Seattle went straightto the to the Taiwanese president's son's house took some pictures didn't stop atthe original Starbucks on Pike Street didn't go see the space indidn't go to the, you know, to the rainforest, didn't go to, didn't even go to, didn't even go to, like, some of the great bookstores in the Pacific Northwest.She just turned around and went back home.Yeah.
01:42:28I don't know what that proves, really.I mean, it's like, I mean, it doesn't, she took pictures, yeah.And also, and we live in this espionage, in this sort of incredible surveillance state where, you know,you know that same guyphotos of his house are on zillowthey're everywhereshe's guilty of driving while chinesei mean that's the crime
01:42:52honestly agree yeah let's say for the moment she was a spylet's say let's literallyshe was a spy she got moneyin the Chinese government this waywasn't a selfie that she doesn't have anything on herwasn't it exactly eveneven under the worst case scenariothat they like you can know she's a spy but you can't prove it
01:43:11How do you prove it?The only thing you got is a person came to the country,took pictures of the Taiwan Sun's house.And by the way, she may be interested in itjust because she's Chinese and they're at odds with Taiwan.It may just be a tourist.It's true.I mean, having had Taiwanese in-laws,
01:43:28they have weird things.I mean, like my in-laws, every time they visited,you know, a city that they hadn't been to before,they'd always want to visit like the college campus nearbyand walk around.They weren't spies.They just liked, they had a thing about,Asians have a thing about college campuses,
01:43:46or some Asians do.And like, they would like literally be just like,oh, this cool.So like, they went to Hawaii and they went to the University of Hawaii.I'm like, you walked around a college campus?Like, go to the beach.I don't care about the college campus, but like, yeah.Shit like that.
01:44:02Like when I went to Japan,there's a famous statue of a dog in Japan.And it's like,A famous statue of a dog.You went all the way, like you were walking all the way around trying to find this thing.And then you find it, it's in the middle of a little park with everybody else hanging around as if it's nothing.And yet, it took the trip to do it.And what are going to say?
01:44:22He's obviously an American spy.He went to, he took a picture of that dog.Yeah.He's working for Clovis, the cat.He's spying on that dog.He's with big cat.Dude, no, I just wanted to see new thing.Right.
01:44:36People will go see stuff.Like, this is so silly.Yeah.She has so much plausible deniability here.Easy.Easy.I can't say any court keeping her.But again, I couldn't see any court keeping Batima.
01:44:48What's her name?Batima.Well, I mean, and ultimately she left, right?I mean, let's see.Okay, we have Peter Ive, thanks for the $2.Funny how we all remember Marina Batina.She was memorable, especially if you were a heterosexual male or a homosexual female.Mr. Ali says Taiwan is part of China.
01:45:12It is not China versus Taiwan.It is the mainland versus Taiwan.That's certainly the official stance of the U.S. State Department,even though they don't want to admit it.They don't act like it.No.Dead Man, Dead Mean Club, thanks for the $10.What is each of y'all's top three movies?
01:45:34Oh, that's so hard.And this changes.movies.I can't answer that.I mean, I can tell you movies that I like,but my top three is kind of hard.Contact was really good,even though I can't put it in the top three,
01:45:48I don't think.The Jim Carrey thingof the Spotless Mind,Eternal Sunshine, that's one of my favorites.Scott Pilgrim is a guilty pleasure.I can't put it in a top three.Oh, Tenet.Tenet goes in my top three.
01:46:05Easy.and Estella was also really goodand Robbiemy top three is it's going to be toughI'll have to go with the JT on this but I do have a list thoughfor number oneI'll have to go with the Ten Commandmentsthe old classic with Charleston Heston
01:46:21that's just a awesomeOh it's a monsterSo good cast of thousandsYeahYeah very very goodMost religious movies are really cheesyThat one was not incredibly well-d-upUm not really
01:46:35Spartacus? That's not really religious, but...Yeah, I mean, Spartacus is okay. I think that...I think it's hard for movies to really capture what he did.You're going...You just want to get a better read of Spartacus out of a book.I think it's a pretty good movie, though.Yeah, no, it is, but it's not my top three.Number two would probably be gods and generals.
01:47:02It's a lot.It's a monster.It's like three and a half hours long.And what is it just covers the career of Stonewall Jackson from the beginning of the war till his death, incredibly well done.And there's no, there's no bend to it.Like it was an honest telling of his life and his personality.So anyone's really interested in war between the states.He's going to go to.
01:47:25And I think probably because my grandfather's granddad actually served under Jackson.So there's a family connection there.He was in the first brigade,of Virginia.And for number three,probably outlawed Joseph Wales.Good movie.No, the scene,
01:47:44the scene with Josie Wales and 10 bears,you know,when I came here to live with you,I came here to die with you.That's,that's what humanity needs more of.No papers.No more of this fancy,
01:47:57these fancy saying,you know,from politicians and lawyers,just trying to screw you.But justmen understandingthat the power of life and deathon their hands and just deciding to live together.
01:48:10Oh, so Jenga.That has been on my list.Jamie Fox was fantastic.So I have to go withAce in the Hole,also known as the Big Carnival,the Billy Wilder film,widely viewed as the most cynical film ever made,
01:48:27and it's about journalism,corrupted journalism.Always a favorite.I've seen it more times than I can count.Repo Man, because it's so punk rock.The soundtrack is great.The soundtrack is amazing.Like when you're always killing people?
01:48:41Oh, it's so good.It's so good.Burn my shadow.Yeah.Oh, it's so good.And I would say also, I'd be remiss not doing a Verhoeven movie,but I'm probably not going to do one of the sci-fi trilogy,although I do love those.
01:48:58I'm going to say Black Book, the Paul Verhoeven movie,that inverts the sort of World War II resistance narrative,and it's based on a true story, and it's astonishing.And it's also in keep, it has all the things you look for from Verhoeven.It has great sex.It has, you know, strong women characters.You know, I could go on, but yeah.Very cool.
01:49:25Okay.Okay.Wait, wait, there's a chess one.What did I miss it?The one with the kid on the cover?with, um, oh, I know what you're talking about.Yeah, that movie is breathtaking for chess players.Like for chess players, they would sit there and just cry, watch.
01:49:41Are you thinking of searching for Bobby Fisher?Searching to Bobby Fisher.Yes.That movie is so good.Queen's Gambit is really good too, but that movie is, that's a special place in chess players.It's just so good.Like, I grew up with, like, the black character that is teaching the kid.I had people like that at the barbershop.
01:50:02So AI is suggesting also other chess movies.Queen of Katwe, which I've never heard of.I've never known that one.It's Disney.It tells the 2016 tells the true story of Fiona Mutesi,a young girl rising from the slums of Uganda to international chess success.And how about pawn sacrifice with Toby McQuire?No.
01:50:25He plays Bobby Fisher.If I'd suggest, search of a Bobby Fisher and Queen's Gambit are two of the best.And there's Dark Horse.The miniseries.Dark Horse is from 2014.Apparently there were a bunch of films around 2014, 2016 about Jess.Yeah.Yeah.
01:50:43Queen's Gambit, I deeply recommend.Oh, Magnus, also 2016.The woman who's in it is Georgian, not American.It's a real story.It's kind of a real story.I mean, they made her like an alcoholic and everything else,and I don't know how much of an alcoholic she was.But either way, she was gorgeous.
01:51:00amazing player.And yeah,Queensland was damn quick.But search for Bob Fisher.Oh,that's the movie.It's just the chess in the park.The playing as a kid.
01:51:12It's funny that there could be so many movies about chessbecause it's like,you know,not really inherently that interest.It's not a visual thing,you know, for a movie, you know.Yeah.I mean, it depends.
01:51:25I mean, like, for example,I used to play chess on my online.And there,would be like a thousand people watching the video and I'd be like, why are you people here?Well, that's like all the people who gather to watch video games, right? Like, I never,maybe you guys can, you and Robbie can explain this. Like, there's stadiums full of peoplewatching people play video games. I'm like, I can't think of anything more boring than watchingsomeone else play a game. Yeah. I mean, but I guess we watch people play football.
01:51:53Yeah, I find that boring too.I actually like football. I usually I don't watch it.like unless somebody is around the house i think football is such a boring gamei don't think so it's i mean there's hardly any play right it's like it's like it's likeuh six seconds of play then 54 seconds of walking around it's a six seconds ofyeah it's war and to be honest it's world war one i think it's the unpredictability of itlike you're gambling of sorts you want somebody to win but you don't know the outcome of itIt's not tailored made.
01:52:29It's not process of law.It's men being men doing manly things with a pig skin.And scrambling their brains in the process.True.But men being men.I had to say men of barbarians.Men are barbarians.They need women around because otherwise they would have killed each other off.
01:52:51No, no, no.That's a fact.Okay.So we've got to talk before we close.out here. And just a reminder, we are going to 11 o'clock. You got six minutes left.We, so the, according to the UAE, they did turn over the passenger and crew manifest for thefly Dubai flight over to the Israelis, which prompts the question. What happened here? So theOmani pilot is a citizen of, a co-pilot, is a citizen of a country that doesn't have
01:53:27diplomatic relations with Israel and therefore is not authorized to fly into Israel.Benjamin Netanyahu asked about this, said, oh, he must have gotten in through a loopholewithout explaining what that means. So much of this story has just not really passed the smell test.Look, I don't purport to know what really happened. I mean, clearly something happened.But the details of it, you know, I mean, the Israeli plumber, I don't know if you saw the Iranian Lego movie about this, but it's so great.And there's a song also, there's another one, another Iranian one, where it's like, it literally goes,he learned how to fly from television.It's like so, we literally are being told.
01:54:25that it is really Plummer, who has never flown any kind of plane ever, even in a simulator,was able to slow the nose dive and level out the plane from a collapse of over in under 30 secondsof 34, from 34,000 to 17,000 feet of altitude, that the plane was not torn apart by,which according to the experts, ought to have happened.the plane was not really the passengers were not in terrible shape at all they should have been if allthis went down the way that they said it went down the story about the russian and the ukrainianpilots who were aboard kumbayiying and then bringing in the plane for a landing that turns out not tobe true it's only one pilot we don't know if either of them was russian or ukrainian some other
01:55:15dude so the stories keep changing here i'm like why do these stories keep changing i mean likewhen this happened the plane landedall the people on board are interviewed,there should have been pretty easyto put the story together pretty quickly.So that's my question to you, Jamaroff.Why does this story keep changing so much?Because it's obviously not true.
01:55:40It didn't happen.It's a conclusion, right?It didn't happen.It's a myth.It's a poorly put together propaganda film.It's a lie.I believe that there was an attack in the cockpit.I believe that.
01:55:54But maybe that didn't happen either.Maybe that's how I do.Or knife.Which one was it?Yeah.It was the, they said it was the rescue axe.Like, apparently they keep, you know, like, there's that device that people have intheir cars to break their window in case they get chappaquittic and they need to break the window.
01:56:10So they have something like that in the cockpit.They have a little axe.And like, in case of emergency, like, let's say there's a, it's called a crash axe.And apparently you can use that to break out through the window in case.of a crash or something.Or hackier.So they say.Yeah.
01:56:27I suspect it's there.I guess, look,I guess the interesting question to me is, if this is fate, what's the point?What are they trying to accomplish?Is it trying to get this sense that, hey, every Israeli plumber can land a plane?Look how great Israel is.They help land a plane.I think it's look how great Israel is.
01:56:46It doesn't shed any light on Israel.Like, just because of a palace.It doesn't get them off the hook for Gaza.No, it's like, no, well, you committed a genocide, but since he lands the plane, that's okay.It's like, yeah, you see the bunch of your own people.No, what the point is, is that, is that this, this, this, this pilot, who is a ally of Iran was going to murder all these Jews that Iran is a terrorist regime and that dear Americans, just because your country's falling apart, you can't afford to live, you better get in line and support this war because Netanyahu needs you.That's what this is all about.that this is what landing a plane was trying to apply to everybody that but listen it's something
01:57:28i think something that you came out and said it that yahu said it's like thefront line he's acting he's asking a lot from some random it's also just i mean i think it's sort oflike the rikes stag fire the nazis didn't set it it was set by it really was set by a dutch anarchistbut they exploited it i think that's what that's what happens in these situationsThere's far fewer false flag attacks than there are false spins of real events.That happens a lot.Like October 7.Yeah.
01:58:05I mean, like, it's just like, yeah, here we go.Yeah, this story sounds very nice.And I, yeah, it sounds like.And Armanda Rake says, fly to buy manifest includes, among others,Abraham, Jacob, Moses, David, Solomon, among others.rightit's like sitting in the back of the playit was like wow really okay
01:58:30yeah yeah no I mean it'syeah I mean it's justyeah I mean I don't know I mean I suppose this all could belook I'll tell you the part I just don't believe thatI don't think that there was that much of a dramatic drop in altitudethere couldn't have beenthat I meanI mean probably three quarters of the
01:58:50of the passengers would have had to have been hospitalizedI mean, there would have been people.People would have died.A small drop is dramatic.Like, the way you feel, it's like, like, stuff falls out, like just a small drop.They're talking about, like, I was in a drop.Like I said, you know, it was about 7,000 feet.And that was, that was, you know, that's a third.
01:59:14And, you know, it was, it was dramatic.I mean, people almost died.I mean, there's a lot, you know, people were banged around.People went all the way to the ceiling.There's no talk about that.Like anyone went to the ceiling.No talk.Like, really?
01:59:30I mean...Like who's slammed on the roof.Yeah, if you get banged, if people get banged around on the...I mean, even if you yourself were buckled up and nothing much happened to you, you're very shaken.And then you've got a...And it's a hot mess inside the cabin, right?I mean, how are you going to be able to get around with like luggage in the aisles,people in the aisles, all sorts of shit all over the place, people screaming and carrying on,
01:59:56you're not going to be able to walk through the aisle up to the, I mean, it just doesn't make sense.I'm very skeptical of the story. That's well.Everyone sane is. And also, it's also strange that there's, there's cell phone footage.Who has the presence of mind to show their cell phone, to keep their cell phone up while the plane'scrashing? Right. The plane is like dropping. They're like a rocket. I mean, I know, I know,millennials and zoomers they live on their phones but Jesus.No, I believe a lot. And by the way, even CNN was skeptical.My last, my last act will be to trend on Instagram. I will do it.
02:00:34What's on Instagram?My last act will be to trend on Instagram.The last thing I do, I'm on moral oil.The plane is fall into it. It doesn't matter.It doesn't matter that there's no cell phone service. It doesn't matter that everything's justfalling apart.There's people flying all over this, this hollow aluminum tube.I'm going to get this video out to the world.
02:00:56That's what really matters.Just like a passport that doesn't burn, the cell phone will survive.Thanks to an Israeli.The passport was far more credible than that.I mean, couldn't they at least found it?Couldn't they have at least found an Italian plumber and they Mario?So have a counterpoint to Luigi?Well, that's the Iran Lego video.
02:01:14She has a, they make him look like Mario.Oh, do that.Oh, that's a video.It's so funny.It's one of the best ones, and I love all of them.But yeah.Anyway, I guess that does it for today.Thanks to Blake for the $5 donation.
02:01:31Yeah, let's see what it is.Give us the show of these.Here we go.This is another request for my man boobs.We are now $5 closer to your goal.Keep it coming.Keep it coming.but we need a tally we want to see them before I die we need an official cali we need a
02:01:51camera yeah we get a thermometer yeah right righttiddy watch yeah yeah Ted Tiddy watch we need Ted Titty what's a word that starts withT that rhymes that means watch Ted T T T Tee Telet Tee Telet Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee Tee TeerightIt just rolls off the tongue.All right.Thanks everyone for joining us.This is D. Programmed with Ted Rall and Jamarlem, Thomas.
02:02:24Signing out for today, we'll be back tomorrow at 9 a.m. Eastern time until 10 a.m. Eastern time.If you're watching us later on streaming, appreciate you, or if you're listening, thank you as well.And TMI, I'll be back tomorrow at 10 a.m. Eastern.All right.Ciao.Bye, Jamal.Have a good one, guys.Have a good one, Robert.
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