Factually! with Adam Conover - Zohran Is Making Democrats Look Bad with David Roth

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Last week, Zohran Mamdani shattered the notion that a New York City mayor has to be some craggy-faced, man-shaped stack of disappointments who’d sooner die than be seen on the subway. The young, energetic Democratic Socialist ran on a platform of making New York City a more livable place for average residents, which—surprise!—went over well with average residents. Listening to constituents and trying to improve their lives doesn’t seem like a controversial stance, so why is it that the Democratic establishment seems almost as afraid of Mamdani as the Republicans? This week, Adam sits with Defector journalist and longtime NYC resident David Roth to talk about what it might mean for NYC to have a mayor who actually understands what NYC is, and what that might mean for the future of the left.SUPPORT THE SHOW ON PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/adamconoverSEE ADAM ON TOUR: https://www.adamconover.net/tourdates/SUBSCRIBE to and RATE Factually! on:» Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/factually-with-adam-conover/id1463460577» Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0fK8WJw4ffMc2NWydBlDyJAbout Headgum: Headgum is an LA & NY-based podcast network creating premium podcasts with the funniest, most engaging voices in comedy to achieve one goal: Making our audience and ourselves laugh. Listen to our shows at https://www.headgum.com.» SUBSCRIBE to Headgum: https://www.youtube.com/c/HeadGum?sub_confirmation=1» FOLLOW us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/headgum» FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://instagram.com/headgum/» FOLLOW us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@headgum» Advertise on Factually! via Gumball.fmSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hey there, welcome to Factually. I'm Adam Conover. Thank you so much for joining me on the show again. You know, American politics and media have been especially fucked up over the last couple weeks. I feel like I start a lot of shows by saying that, but let's just do a quick list to break down exactly how bad things have been. The Democratic establishment in New York City chose a sex-abusing corrupt former governor named Andrew Cuomo to be their choice to run as mayor of New York City. Trump recently bombed Iran, barely setting back their nuclear program while risking a

catastrophic wider war, all while his administration continues to illegally kidnap immigrants and demolish the federal government. And of course, Democrats aren't doing shit to stop him. In fact, they can't even decide if they should one day say that they are interested in stopping him. And of course, the media that used to report on all the bad shit happening around the world in towns and cities across America has been obliterated. Instead, we now get our information about these horrifying events from algorithm influencers like me and maybe from the odd

newsletter writer or two if you're lucky. It's enough to make you want to tune out of the news entirely and just spend the rest of your life watching baseball, right? But you know there are some green shoots starting to spring up. The Democratic Socialist Zoran Mondani just won the Democratic primary in New York City running on, you know, having a government that actually makes life more affordable for the people who live there. What a fucking concept. And we're starting to see some success stories in media again. One of my favorite media outlets right now is Defector.

It's an incredible blog that was started by a bunch of staffers who escaped from Deadspin, the beloved sports and pop culture website that was run to the ground by some private equity vulture capitalists. These journalists started Defector as a worker run cooperative to escape the bullshit of corporate media. They cover sports, politics, the internet,

pop culture, incisively and compellingly, and five years in, they have had incredible success doing it. Now, one of my favorite writers at Defector is Dave Roth. He's an incredible writer, an incredible journalist. He doesn't just write about the cursed baseball team, the Mets, which I also follow, but he also writes about politics both nationally

and locally with incredible insight. I wanted to talk to him about what just happened in New York and what is happening across the country right now, both in sports culture and politics. I know you're going to love this conversation. Before we get into it, I want to remind you that if you want to support this show and all the conversations we bring you every single week, head to patreon.com slash Adam Conover. Five bucks a month gets you every episode of the show ad free. And if you want to come see me do standup comedy on the road, I just announced a new batch

of fall tour dates. The big divorce energy tour. That is what the, that is the name that I am going with. Uh, this fall, we're headed to Indianapolis, St. Louis, Oklahoma city, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Brea, California, Tacoma and Spokane, Washington, Des Moines, Iowa, Atlanta, Georgia, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Washington, DC, and Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania had Adam Conover.net for all those tickets and tour dates. And now let's get to this conversation with a very funny and insightful Dave Roth.

Okay, Dave, thanks for being on the show. Thank you for having me. We've been talking for 40 minutes. We've already been talking for 40 minutes about stuff that we're like that the podcast can't begin that way. It could be the kind of podcast where oh my God, we've started in the middle of the conversation, except that we were already down like a rabbit hole that people aren't gonna follow. Right. It's probably better if we leave it and we're just being like, that was too hot for the pot. Because it was really me being like,

do you remember what, did you ever get off at the warmer stop on the L and there was a deli? It's still there. Like, it's just not very... This is what happens when I come back to New York. I haven't lived here for 10 years, but every time I do, it's just like New York talk all the time. What subway stop where to get where I used to get a bacon, egg and cheese.

I had the best morning because first of all, everyone hears those. Oh, it was running 15 minutes late, which I love very much me included. Literally 15 minutes. And I got the fastest egg and cheese sandwich I've ever. I've never had food served this quickly in my life. And the man making me an egg and cheese from scratch for me while I was about to get on the Bedford Elle so I could get here. And I was like, I'm back. I'm so happy.

That's what it's all about. Bizarre city. The vibe in New York is like really different than anything I've experienced before. Because I came here to sort of clear my head and like do some standup and do some writing and stuff like that. And I've been talking about politics too much on like my channel and shit. And I wanna just do some comedy.

And I come here and people are like more engaged in, I lived in New York for 10 years. I never saw people give a shit about a city election before in my life. Yeah, this is new to me. I've lived York for 10 years. I never saw people give a shit about a city election before in my life. Yeah, this is new to me. I've lived here for 24 years. And this is the, I mean, there have been times when people cared about politics,

but for national races, which are the ones that most people care about, it's a foregone conclusion. Like New York is gonna be, you know, one color and that's how it's gonna be. There'd be no reason to canvas or do any of that shit. And then all the mayoral elections have this kind of, I like what I imagine it's going to be. There'd be no reason to canvas or do any of that shit. Yep. And then all the mayoral elections have this kind of. I like what I imagine it's like to find out you've been nominated for a Razzie award is like what I think like being like in the mayoral

conversation is, or it's kind of like, well, it's nice that you thought of me. But like, why did you think of me like this? Like it's every, you know, few years in an off year election that is designed exclusively to be voted in by perverts. Like it's 2025, no elections happen in 2025. Five is not a number that has elections associated with it. So it's this weird machine run thing to elect the like sin eater clown that the city is gonna scream at

for like the next four years. And most of the, there have been more and less effective mayors. But there's never anybody where, you know, maybe this is true. But I don't remember anyone like knocking on my door and being like, have you heard the good news about Michael Bloomberg? Yeah. You know, this is not how it goes during the Bloomberg years. And the vibe was, you know, Bloomberg is a billionaire, so he's not going to have to eat shit like everybody else.

He can sort of do what he wants. And like, he mostly did, and like some of it was good, as there was Stop It Frisk and some other bad shit, but he, you know, he was sort of like a, he was almost like a regular city executive. And then after that, when it went back to sort of normal mayors, it was like, oh, like, you know, de Blasio gets out there

and the police just start shooting him with their guns. Yes. And just like shoot him to death and he's dead. And then they get a different maniac. Tragic that we that we lost. We lost a lot of good mayors that way. But yes, it was de Blasio was the one that was the closest to people caring because he was he was the most progressive candidate and he ran a great campaign. Like this is the thing with Blasio is like it to the extent that anybody

outside of New York City knows or cares who he is. It's because he ran this insanely clownish presidential campaign. Right. And yeah, which was basically it was him taking a break from like, I live in this big city where I have like a 22% approval rating. The only thing left for me to do like I've conquered. That's everything that I ever wanted. It's time to go to Iowa. I eat a cutlet on a stick. It maybe it almost qualifies.

I mean, he's like, I was elected in the biggest city in the country and they hate me there. So I should be able to take that hatred and power it to the entire rest of the... We run the numbers and we think it can scale. My understanding is like the rich conservatives and the post like destroyed de Blasio, like they will want to do to Mamdani. But also I knew like progressives in city government who were just like, de Blasio is just like a lazy idiot. Like by six months in, people were just like,

oh, he's just, ah, fuck. Yeah, so he got a few good things done. And then he bailed, which is like a pretty common move for a mayor. Like the difference, the reason Bloomberg didn't was that like he could just take a helicopter anywhere he wanted to go. like if he was stressed out He's like, I'm I'll be in Barbuda for the next 72 hours and just would do it

What I liked about Bloomberg was it felt like he's he's a guy. He was a guy who reads He's like a technocrat. Yeah, and so he would like read like a scientific paper about like Oh, if if a cup is really big you'll drink more of it and then you'll drink more sugar. And then he'll try to you try. I remember trying to explain this to people being like, no, if the container is big, you'll drink more than you mean to. And then you could like gain weight or get diabetes. So like, we're going to make the cup smaller. And I was like, yeah, man.

Yeah, it wasn't wrong. The difference is that every time that Bloomberg had to address the public, he had this look on his face where he's like, can you believe that I am talking to you assholes like this is amazing, right? And it wasn't the sort of thing. It wasn't like condescending. It was kind of like, this is the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life. I'm talking to a Puerto Rican guy.

Yeah. And that's never happened to me before. And like, he didn't seem to love it, but he seemed to like, kind of be, like bemused by being mayor. Yeah, he had that thing where he was trying to learn Spanish and he was bad at it, but it was cute. You know, he was like, hola, me llamo.

Miguel Blumbeeto. Yeah, like it was, he was, so he was sorta trying, but he was always. I think that honestly, like this was sort of relatable to me as someone who has like. Not I don't have a billion dollars, I don't have like a helicopter or whatever. The times that I've tried to learn new things as an adult, I have failed. And then also the whole time, it's hard to like sort of get out of your own way because you can like see or hear yourself in your head and being like that is not like you are not conjugating that verb correctly, man.

Like this is not Italian. And the Italian person you're speaking it to is a little offended by how bad it is. And like Bloomberg seemed to have some of that whenever he was trying to do retail stuff. I remember my sister, who's a doctor, by the way, when she graduated from medical school, Bloomberg gave the speech at their graduation and fully half of it was like, Well, I don't really know what you guys graduated from. I was handed a sheet of paper on my way up here. Like it was almost like one of those like Bob Uecker routines where it was like just him talking about how bad he was at baseball for most of a speech.

Like and it was my dad loved Bloomberg. And even I did not. But even I had to be like, this is kind of endearing because it's better than getting up there and being like doctors or the heart of New York City or like whatever. Yeah. Fake shit like he was just kind of like, I don't know, man. I got to go do more of these before dinner. In retrospect, he had it was a refreshing like separation from the things a mayor normally has to do to like make the political machine work. Yeah. You know, like he did have a certain unbound quality where he could just sort of be a weirdo and do some stuff.

So does Eric Adams. I was like, we have to get to Eric Adams for a second before we talk about the news of the day. Like I that was when Eric Adams started happening and I was not living in New York, that's really made me sad. I was like, I'm not eating pizza. I'm not eating bacon, egg and cheeses. I'm not talking about this fucking guy. Yeah. Like my mayor doesn't wear any Livestrong bracelets. Eric's got all of them. He's got like nine on at any moment.

Every moment he's awake. The there's a great picture of him during one of his many visits to Israel, a country that he has passionate affinity for. He just loves travel. He loves international travel. This is the thing that's known about him. Federal court made it a matter of public record.

But he in Israel, there's a picture of him solemnly putting a note into the the wailing wall in Jerusalem and on his wrist as he is slipping this note in is a little lanyard that says grind on it. He's just he was so locked in as a type of guy that like and it's not like a type of guy that you would ever encounter. He's like an influencer cop. Yeah, like this it's not like a type of guy that you would ever encounter. He's like an influencer cop. Yeah, like this is just not a personality type.

He is ordering off menu like this. But it's you know, I cannot wait until he fucking leaves and I don't have him as mayor anymore, but I hope he doesn't go away. Like I hope he stays posting. He I think he needs like a George Santos post. Yeah, yeah. A moment where it's like he gets to go on the podcast. He gets to hang out with some drag queens. Yeah. People just get to enjoy him as camp.

Yeah. You know, and because he was really he was a Zephyr Bebelbrox mayor. Yes. You know, he was like, he's the party guy. He's not actually getting anything done. He's and like, yeah, he seems like a fun guy to hang out with. That was basically what he ran as was like, I'm going to like inspire New York to new heights by demonstrating the power of swag every day, by like going out and being like, you know, a physically fit,

probably polyamorous man who goes to nightclubs at the age of 60. And it's like, if he was doing that, if there was like a job that was just that, where if it was just like, you gotta act like, if like horny Mark Jackson, like that's your thing. Just go out there, be in public, like go to a lot of like ribbon cuttings and openings and give weird speeches,

but like under no circumstances are you to do any governing. Like I would keep him in that job more or less for as long as he wanted. And that's a good job. Half of that is New York, right? Is like going out when you shouldn't be going out doing Molly, even though you're in your sixties. Yes. You know, and a couple of moments that were like people were mad at him. One of the I guess it was like after some flooding. We have a lot of like kind of preventable, natural disaster type experiences here because the infrastructure isn't that good or it's very old.

But there was one that was like there was bad flooding. He had had a birthday party and then just was the mayor's office was silent until noon the next day. And he gave he did like a live stream. And he looked like, you know, the image of like drunk Don Draper that people use where he kind of looks a little drowned and he's like making a presentation. Yes. Like Adam showed up like that looking like he had like been awakened at 1140 to

be like, sir, there's flooding low lying areas of Brooklyn and Queens. And he was like, and then like instantly was online explaining it and being like, you know, this is where we, why you got to stay prayed up or whatever the fuck he said at that moment. And that's relatable to me as a comic. There are some times I'm like, I got to go on stage. I had a corporate gig a couple of weeks ago at like 9 a.m. and I was not, you know, I was like, I do comedy at nine in the morning, you know, someone contractually eating like eating a Danish in the front row,

doing some crowd work. Corporate gigs, you know? It's like, and the great thing is, if it doesn't go that well, it's fine. Yeah, and you're done in time for a regular breakfast. Yeah, exactly. I was gonna say, like, walking off stage at 9.30 to be like, good bagels near me.

Like, where are we doing this? That's... So, Eric Adams, like, in the last, what, six months, just a comical level of overt corrupt. He and Trump just did corruption in the news. They were just like, I'm going to go to jail, but what if I do what you, what if I like, uh, fulfill your priorities and jail some immigrants or whatever help let ice come in and you'll let me off and Trump was just like in the newspaper. Yes, sounds right.

This all happened like on TV, which is amazing. It's not the sort of thing where a lot of things, you know, in our reality are like this. But there is a moment in that where he was Tom Homan dragged Eric Adams on TV. They went on Fox News together. Adams barely talked. And Homan is like, you know, this guy knows I'm be up his butt if he doesn't do exactly what I say. And Adams had to sit there being like, delightful, like just hitting the Philip Seymour Hoffman brand in Big Lebowski, nostril flare, fake laughing.

And it was like it was humiliating. But it was also one of those things And it was like, it was humiliating, but it was also one of those things where it's like, this seems like it should be from like a training video. Like if you had to like watch something at work that was like a mandated video that was like, here's how not to do quid pro quo. It was like that level of subtlety. And yet it was happening in the same reality

that all of us inhabit. And that's like our entire political situation is this like the standards that anybody used to have for behavior or ethics or anything are completely out the window. Anything is possible at this point. But at the very least, this made Eric Adams completely reviled. He was already reviled among New Yorkers, but it's like his political career is basically dead and led us to this election. Yeah. I mean, he's still running. He has a lot. He was already reviled among New Yorkers, but it's like his political career is basically dead and led us to this election.

Yeah. I mean, he's still running. He has a lot. This is another New York City politics thing. I'm sure will be fascinating to people that don't live here. So I'll do it quickly. You can basically get your own. If you get enough signatures, you can get your own party line outside of. So Eric Adams was not going to get the Democratic nomination.

They refused to let him campaign. He didn't debate anybody. He governed as a Democrat, but he like he like deregistered as a Democrat and then started his own line. So if you vote for Eric Adams in the election in November in New York City, you will be voting on a line that is called stop anti-Semitism. It's one word because there's a limit to how many characters you can get in your fake party line that you make up.

And it was like it was important to him that he send that message. But it was also like there's not a shorter way to say it. You could say no anti-Semitism, I guess. And you got the space. Then you got a whole extra character to play with. Maybe there's an exclamation point, but I don't work for him. You know, I can't make suggestions like that. You know, anti-Semitism is a very real issue.

But when it is being deployed in that way, even if you're someone who cares more than anybody else about genuine anti-Semitism, like Eric Adams does, you have to look at that and go something has right. The way anti-Semitism is being deployed in our political culture is a little bit off right now. A little bit off the other great of the fake lines. Andrew Cuomo got one that is designed to look, this was in previous years, he had run on,

he created one that was designed to look like the Working Families Party line, which is a sort of the progressive. Yeah, we've had the head of the Working Families Party on the show. Yeah, so Cuomo, the last time he ran for governor, also ran on a line that was called like, the Working Federated Party or something

that was designed to just basically confuse people. There was a guy in LA who was running for judge and he changed his name to Judge so that people would think he was a judge already. That's what we're talking about. Yeah, this is basically people like the way that this is going to date me. But the way that like in the yellow pages

at the beginning of it, like this is I don't know if you're even old enough to know this. I remember the. All right. Where there'd be like like seven A's in a row. Electronics Corporation. And then they'd be like, that would be right above one that was six A's in a row. And like, it's just trying to be first. Yeah, that's that's how we govern our city now.

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That's hungerroot.com slash factually code factually to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. hungerroot.com slash factually code factually. So, damn, you live like this. You live like I do, Adam. I live exactly like I thought. I thought L.A. politics is fucked up. Yeah. But I've enjoyed watching L.A. politics from afar. All right. Did until recently got really depressing.

I just find it interesting that how like it's just another cast of like New York style, janky ward healers and creeps like the guy who is the is it Caruso, the mall developer? Yeah, we don't really have mall developers in New York City. He's going to come back and run again also against he's like he's like laying the groundwork to run against Karen Bass a second time as the sort of, you know, I hate Trump and I'm a Democrat, but also all the Republicans are voting for me. So that's that's Eric's lane now, too.

And it's going to be hard. I mean, I think he and Cuomo, who is probably going to stay in the election, are going to be splitting the like weird asshole vote. And there's a lot of them here. But like, I don't think a Republican would vote for either of those guys. Like, they don't like them. Yeah. So yeah, good luck obviously to Rick Caruso.

I've been to the mall. What's the- The Grove, the Americana. I've been to both. Yeah. Yeah, the Americana. I watched Blade Runner 2049 or whatever the year it was in that title.

I watched that at the Americana mall at 10.30 in the morning with my friend who had a young baby So it was the crybaby screening of it It was let me just say Rick Cruz's whole thing is that he builds He has built these outdoor malls where you go and then you park and then you walk around a little Outdoor mall area which when you look around what does this look like? Oh, it's Soho. It's the West Village. It's a town or a neighborhood. Yeah. And the entire appeal is that you got to park and walk around.

And and he and literally one of the reasons people were voting for him was they were like, oh, I like going to the mall. It's pleasant to go to the mall. Maybe he'll make L.A. like the mall. If he made all of the city the Grove, then it would be fucking New York City or another walkable city, which is the opposite of what he was gonna do because he's, you know, an anti-urbanism guy.

Yeah, his thing was mostly like, I'm gonna do that. Like that Simpsons gag where a vagrant turns into a mailbox. Like he was just gonna do that with the entirety of downtown Los Angeles. That was basically the gambit, right? Yeah, yeah, no, he's like, we're gonna make, we're gonna put the homeless people, we're going to get one big bulldozer and we're going to push them all into the ocean.

Yeah, that was super. Glad that that idea has been discredited and no one is continuing to fucking say it at the highest levels of our government. You know, we've got we've got a little bit of progress in L.A. on that front where they're starting to. But let's let's come back here because we have missed another disgusting clown in this story who is Andrew Cuomo. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's very good. Yeah.

I grew up on Long Island and it was just like my whole life. You would just hear Cuomo, Cuomo, Cuomo, Cuomo, Cuomo, because Mario Cuomo's father was the governor in what, the 80s? Yes. And like a guy that everybody I don't know if your parents. I don't know what their politics were. My parents are Democrats. Like they basically acted like Mario Cuomo was their real dad. Yeah, like they loved him. Yeah.

And he was very eloquent and he was like kind of like handsome and a like saddish hang dog, like 70s Pacino kind of way. Like as close to a beloved legislator as you get. Yeah. Anyway, Andrew is his awful son. Who somehow I'm like, if Mario was the death and like, how is Cuomo almost 70 already? How is Andrew Cuomo almost 70? Yeah. But so governor for eight years left during or governor for almost eight years,

right, because he left because he was serially sexually harassing everyone around him. Yeah. Completely unsurprisingly. Happened to be timed during that brief. I guess it was like maybe 18 months where people could be held accountable for stuff like that in the culture. Just bad timing on Andrew's part should have waited. But yeah, he like he was basically forced to resign.

And apparently like his whole campaign, when he came back to run for mayor of New York City, was basically forced to resign. And apparently, like his whole campaign, when he came back to run for mayor of New York City was basically like, fuck all that, forget it. I didn't learn a thing from it. Yeah. It wasn't me. It was another guy that kept touching all those butts and like leering at people.

Just, well, whatever. I mean, you could see given the broader moment how that might've seemed like the right play for him. It's just like nothing is real anymore. Yeah. Like and people like evil guys now. Yeah. But that's part of why it's so heartening that it didn't work. And he's probably like, it's a demotion. It's a less good job.

So it's fitting. I'm you kicked me down a rung. Yeah. Smaller like that was basically how he ran. Like he didn't really bothered a campaign very much. He never did. He didn't when he was governor either. Like for someone that works, you know, as an elected official, he cannot stand voters like he just is not comfortable around them. And so he does very, very little in the way of like appearing in public. If you thought that like Bloomberg was stilted at talking to people,

like Cuomo is a guy that just like kind of can't make eye contact, like a weird dude. And so him running for mayor, I mean also he's one of those guys that like, he hasn't, he grew up in Queens, like sort of like the outer, you know, Caucasian Queens. So like probably much closer to where you grew up on Long Island than where he would have to live

as mayor of New York City. Yeah, and also all the people he grew up in Queens, all those people moved out to Long Island. Like the white New York accent that people have in their heads has like left the city. They all moved to the suburbs. It was white flight, you know? And so it's like this bygone connection to the city.

Yeah, and he, I mean, he doesn't like it. He has sort of like what you were talking about, though, the idea of like that out migration, that community of people that left New York in the 70s and 80s when not because it was getting too expensive, but because it sucked. Like things just kind of weren't working very well. Yeah. And there's this whole idea of New York that you can any copy of the New York Post will give it to you. That's the Murdoch owned tabloid that we've got, which somehow even like

normal liberal people in New York City wind up believing that whatever is on the cover of the New York Post is really happening. I don't know how that works. Just good graphic design, I guess. As the impact font, especially because like I lived in New York long enough ago that I would literally just pay 50 cents for a newspaper before I got on the subway to have something to do. Yeah. And we don't do that anymore. And no one's going to New York Post dot com. So how is how how is their power growing?

So they they actually have sort of like hacked. They're like the you know, the way like Daily Mail works, like their online thing, where they're just aggregating news. If any if like a black teen and a white teen get in a fight anywhere in the United States, NewYorkPost.com covers it, because they know that their audience is like seething racists who are on their phone all the time,

to be like, disgusting, they live like animals. But just, but like that is, they're locked in on that. Yeah. It's a growth sector, sadly. But I mean, it's so in the air, you know, I one of the first days I was here a couple of weeks ago was when the ice raids and the protests were first happening in L.A. And I was like next to the place I was staying.

I went into a pizza place. There's this awesome New York Italian guy in the back. And what you are, you know, I'm Anthony. Nice to meet you. I'm like, the pizza is really good. He's like, yeah, we do it here this way. Like no one does it this way anymore. Like, here's how we make the pizza. And then he's looking at the news. You see what's happening in Los Angeles. They're fucking destroying the city. They're, they're setting cars on fire. You see what they're doing? They're like, and he just like had that in him.

And I was like, I see the media. I can't even be mad at this guy because this is the media ecosystem he lives in of reactionary, seeing those headlines, all these people are crazy, don't go there. It's like, it's just this soup. So that's like, basically Cuomo was sort of, the extent that he bothered to run it was like,

with that angle and more or less in that tone, if not quite with that rhetoric, like we're just being like, you guys got a lot of problems. You need somebody tough to clean it up like with that angle and more or less in that tone, if not quite with that rhetoric, like we're just being like, you guys got a lot of problems. You need somebody tough to clean it up. That's me. Like I'm a difficult person. I'm not a nice guy. I don't get along well with others, but I promise you, I will kick ass. But he wasn't like, I'm going to kick ass for you. It was like, I'm going to kick ass because like, fuck you. I'm Andrew Cuomo. Deal with it. Yeah. And I'm mad I kick ass for you. It was like, I'm going to kick ass because like, fuck you. I'm Andrew Cuomo. Deal with it. Yeah. And I'm mad I had to resign.

Yes. And so that unsurprisingly did not really resonate with the public. But it also like until the moment that he lost, I thought he was going to win. And it was some of it was just that he had he had this name recognition. And as with I think a lot of things in the culture, like what he did in 2020 and 2021, which was basically like some really, really shameful and, you know, like cost many lives, tens of thousands of lives.

Mismanagement of Covid. This was happening while he was going on TV and basically functioning as like sort of Trump's opposite number. Everybody was doing daily briefings then and Trump would get up there and be like, we're gonna, you know, if you drink the bleach, it doesn't hurt.

And then like, and Cuomo would go up there and be like comparatively less insane. And he had a brief like liberal boomer pop nationally of people going, oh, Andrew Cuomo, he's the anti-Trump, which Gavin Newsom has also been chasing after this sort of cheap. Oh, this is an adult Democrat in the room who's anti Trump, who like, oh, we can really trust him. Yes. And Cuomo too, is like presentationally in terms of his accent, in terms of like where he's from is like, you know, it's like the Wario to Trump. Like there's like Trump is Mario. Trump is, like the Wario to Trump.

Like there's like- Trump is Mario. Trump is Wario, sorry. Trump is actually like- But then Cuomo is Mario. There's two, but well, at least he's Italian. Are they Wario and Waluigi? Yes, I don't know, it's hard to say.

Wow, I really, well we should- Mario is from Brooklyn, I mean, so this works. So I don't think we should drop this. I think we need to figure this out. Who's Birdo? Eric Adams is Birdo. I mean, so this works. So I don't think we should drop this. I think we need to figure this out. Who's Berto? Eric Adams is Berto. He's Kirby. Okay.

I know that's where I'm at. I gotta break this down. We gotta do every Mario Kart character in the new game. I wanna know who's Shy Guy. I wanna know who's Cow. Police Commissioner Tish, that's Princess Peach. Let's move on. Pretty easy. There's no police commissioner dish that's Princess Beach. Pretty easy. There's no reason to argue about it.

It is anyway, but they were like similar. You're right. But it was like a close enough that you could more or less like talk yourself into it if you needed to, which people did then, because it was like all you could do is fucking watch TV and try not to get sick. Yeah. And then, you know, like, but the reckoning that came from how Cuomo mishandled, like willingly concealed evidence of some very devastating decisions that he made involving putting people with COVID into

senior living facilities where they sickened a bunch of people and killed something like 17,000 of them. This report came out and he spiked it. He commissioned a report on state corruption. He spiked that. Like there's a lot of stuff and, you know, all of it was kind of like reckless. And yet until the moment that he was forced to step down,

it just kind of seemed like, you know, in the way that a lot of things do, we're just kind of like, well, this sucks. Like, I don't love knowing this about this guy, but at least it doesn't matter. At least he'll never face any consequences for any of the shit that he did. And, you know, so that experience of him being held to account,

that somehow got like memory hold seemingly along with all the other stuff. And I think that part of why he lost was basically that, like it wasn't that they successfully hung any of this stuff around his head. I mean, I think they did all the other candidates basically were running against Cuomo by the end. But he came in and he had this because people knew his name and because he had been on TV, you know to some effect in 2020 and that was most of what people seem to remember about it. But he came in and had like a 30 or 40 point lead over the field.

I mean, it was like everybody else was like topping out around 10% and he was just people seem to remember about it. But he came in and had like a 30 or 40 point lead over the field. I mean, it was like everybody else was like topping out around 10% and he was just, you know, donating. I mean, my feeling was there's enough 85 year olds who vote in deep Queens who are like, I remember his father Mario, you know? And of course they're gonna, like, I was like, that's, you're done, right?

It seemed like it would be. And I think that's most of what he, like, that's, you're done, right? It seemed like it would be. And I think that's most of what he, like, you know, he did get 35, 38% of the vote in the first round before conceding. It's like a rank choice voting thing, but he would have lost. Momdadi beat him in the first round. And those voters, like to the extent

that you can see the maps, it's basically like, like white parts of the city, very, very rich parts of the city. And then like parts of it that are kind of just like machine bound, like like older voters, white and black and Latino, tended to go for Cuomo. And then people whose apartments look over Central Park voted for him, which is like more or less could have worked as a constituency if other people hadn't gotten into the idea

of there being this like young, vigorous, charismatic guy who kind of felt like a, you know, like a young New York sort of thing. And I think a lot of people, like just were riding the vibe of that. Like Mondani's got some ideas that I think are all right. I don't know if they'll work or not. Being mayor is a really hard job.

Like not only do you get screamed at all the time, there's all these like institutions and all this infighting. But this is the first time, I think, to what you were saying about people being like engaged and caring about the shit. Never has electing a mayor felt in my time here, which, again, is like going on 25 years, never has it felt like you were actually going to. Like change anything or even like feel like you were doing anything

other than kind of like taking out the garbage by casting a vote. Right. Like de Blasio was the most progressive guy in that race, but like, I knew he wasn't going to really do very much. And he didn't seem he was kind of a feckless guy. He had been the public advocate. Yeah. Right. Which was a is a constitutionally useless position that is just designed to be, I think, a complainer. Yeah, it's sort of a

mascot thing. The guy that does it for New York now is like just he's like a cool version of Eric Adams, like a younger Jumaane Williams. And this thing is basically like just showing up places and be like, how are we doing? You know, and he's good at it. Like, but that's what that job is.

Well, let's talk about Mamdani because I mean,'ve been talking for 30 minutes and we've barely mentioned him and Well, I think so because we had to get through all of the comical Mario characters. Yes before we Goodness, we did that Listeners are really gonna appreciate it was really fun But like I I landed here. I'd heard about the campaign, I'd seen a little bit on social media, some of my New York friends have been posting about it. I land in New York a couple of weeks ago,

literally every conversation I have with anyone under the age of 50, Zoran comes up. They're all wearing pins, they're like everyone, literally four different people I know, I'm like, you wanna hang out? They're like, I'm too busy canvassing. Yep. Yep. It's incredible to see, like first of all, any political activity in New York at all,

but for people to feel that hopeful, what about like Zoran, do you think captured people's attention? I mean, I haven't been here. I haven't like been in the soup. Yeah. So, I mean, some of it is that he, I mean like the stuff that people are gonna give him credit for, and they should give him credit for it. Yeah. So I mean, some of it is that he I mean, like the stuff that people are going to give him credit for and they should give him credit for it.

Lots of really good videos, lots of good online presence. Like it's a and so I think that he like engaged younger voters in a way that like most of your other candidates would not or could not. Like there are other good Brad Landers campaign. He was sort of like the the third place guy and a co endorsed mom, Donnie in a way that was like, I think, Brad Lander's campaign, he was sort of like the third place guy and a co endorsed Mamdani in a way that was like, I think really important for him. Lander is like a solid South Brooklyn liberal Jewish guy.

He's a city's comptroller, basically the accountant and is like just a good dude. And him like vouching for Mamdani, I think everybody like it certainly calmed a lot of Democrats down, not all of them, but a lot of them. But, you know, he did some good video work, too. It wasn't just a matter of like having guys that know how to put good shit on Instagram. Mabani was fucking everywhere. He it was like the teams, the canvassers work their asses off. They were in every neighborhood, you know, spreading the good word. But it wasn't the sort of thing where they were. Like they talked about the policies that he had,

which were basically like about making the city more affordable, about like making it so that you are not going to, you know, like freezing the rent on rent control departments about this idea of like publicly owned grocery stores and neighborhoods that don't really have them. That all of this stuff is like it's not crazy. You know, it's certainly not like the idea of like full communism, whatever. It's just like basic good government shit that has been like tried and has worked in other places.

It's the stuff that he's proposing specifically, like, you know, government run grocery stores. I haven't read a white paper on how, you know, efficient that is. And that's if that's a great use of whatever it very well could be. But that type of thing is part of New York's DNA. Like the progressive era in, you know, whatever, the 20s was all about, we're gonna build parks. We're gonna do sanitation.

We're going to, the city will provide services that make the city more livable. What's interesting is that to get those kinds of policies now you have to have a guy who's saying, I am running as a Democratic socialist. And people go, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is that? What did you just say? And it turns out it just means public transit and like government

services for things that only the government can provide basic shit. Yes. Which is the sort of thing that it's again, I think it sort of speaks to the the ways in which like the Democrat elite in New York City. But I think just in general, has kind of like fucked up here where it's like Cuomo ran a more or less normal statewide Democratic campaign in a city where he was basically spending a lot of time kind of like lavishing over the horrors of life in the cities

and then being like unbelievable, disgusting at night, you know, like just like Travis Bickle shit. And that was it. But campaigning to the people who live in the city, yes, your city is a cesspool. It's a, that's by the way, kind of the same way Caruso ran in LA was it was the city is so dangerous.

The city is so disgusting. Caruso had this line. I'm sorry. I'm this is a tangent, but I need to say this. No, no. We've already established that I'm here for whatever Rick Caruso anecdotes you've got. Something that he said repeatedly was he was like,

crime is out of control. People are taking off their jewelry before they go to dinner. And that was so telling that that is his constituency is, you know, rich people in Santa Monica, who are like, before I go to the extremely nice restaurant I'm gonna sit at next to the like, you know, heat lamp and I'm gonna drink wine, I have to take my jewelry off

because I'm worried a man will run by and snatch my necklace. Tuck my link before getting an Uber outside of Bar Amah. Yeah. Fuck off. That's fake. It's fake. Come on. It's fake and it also only appeals to rich people who hate the city they live in. That's the only constituency.

And that it sounds like Cuomo was doing the same thing. But this is where I think the Mamdani, the difference sort of was. Like I like the policies, I look forward to seeing how they work. I hope they do. Yeah. The other thing that he was doing,

and this was like the vibe that I think people caught underneath all of that and that sort of buoyed it was that and I think this is how I feel about living in New York. I think a lot of New Yorkers feel this way. He likes New York. Like he was out doing New York shit. And so a lot of the like not even just for the videos, but like the sort of like places that people would encounter him. Like in the videos, he made a point of like being on the subway eating like a halal cart chicken thing.

Like all like things that are like, it's not even like stuff that you love about living in New York. It's just the stuff of living in New York. I saw that the day after the election was the first time I saw that halal chicken cart video because people were sharing it again. And I felt this is the best political communication

I've maybe ever seen. Should we talk about it in some detail? Cause it's like, it's a policy hidden inside of me medic video that is deeply New York code. Yes, you're right. Let's explain the video first. He is goes to different. So there's halal cart street vendors who do lamb on rice,

chicken on rice on like almost every street corner in New York. He goes up to them. He says, how much does it cost here? It's 10 bucks for chicken chicken on rice, for lamb on rice. And then he asked like, how much does it cost you guys to have a permit to work here?

And he explains in like 90 seconds, he gets these guys to explain, in order to get a street vendor permit, they have to pay a middleman 20 grand because that person has some line to the city and is able to get a permit that should be 500 bucks should just be an application process. That person is like holding the permit and they have to do a payoff to this guy who is who makes 20 grand for doing nothing. And that is why your chicken on rice is expensive.

And he's basically like if we got rid of that, if we get rid of this like rentier class, it serves no purpose. Yeah. Then your chicken on rice is eight dollars again, like it used to be. Again, fucking perfect. Right. Brilliant. Because it's sort of even if that's not something that you eat, it is something that I think every New Yorker sort of understands. And there's there's more and less effective ways to sort of run against it. But there's a lot of like a lot of the city's elite, like is finance capital. Like and we can talk more about whether they qualify as like sort of purpose

free, rentier collector guys, too. But yes, there's also a lot of guys where it's just like this guy bought a parking garage in 1977 and now he has a billion dollars. Like, or it's just like this guy runs John Katz, a T.D.S. He's a a city personality, one of the he ran for mayor as a Republican, owns what is like universally considered. And it's a very rare point of consensus among New Yorkers. Gristini's grocery stores, the worst grocery stores in New York City.

Everybody knows it. They suck. They smell like a diaper. They look like the like. Did you ever see the movie Blue Steel? No. All right. Well, it's a good movie. It's early Catherine Bigelow. There's a scene at the beginning of it where Jamie Lee Curtis shoots a guy. He's holding up a grocery store. Every Christides looks like that. Blue Steel came out in 1989.

Like, it's just not like the way that you want a shopping experience to go. And so that guy coming out and being like, I'm going to fucking move out of the city. I'm going to close all my grocery stores like I have no reason to be here because he's going to raise taxes and you know, like, yeah, all of these guys sort of revealing themselves as being like, the grocery stores, like I have no reason to be here because he's gonna raise taxes and he, you know, like. Yeah. All of these guys sort of revealing themselves as being like, I think every New Yorker knows to a certain extent that gumming up the works

in every process is not just like some city agency with a bunch of people who take long lunches, but is like some rich guy squeezing that process and making it so that things don't flow the way that they're supposed to go. And so to communicate that message through this medium of like a short video about a thing that New Yorkers know about that like puts a finger on an issue

that I think like is broadly understood in a way that like sort of is considered to be outside of politics. Like no one talks about fixing shit like that. Certainly like Cuomo did not. And like to the extent that there's I think for a lot of people that have run for mayor, de Blasio was like this too, that it is the job is not a stepping stone.

It is a terminal position. You're like gonna be hectored by the public into an early grave. That's the job. The entire city will try to kill you as soon as you have the job. At all times. And by the end of eight years,

if you get that far, you will be dead. Yeah. And you're done. Which is why the job is only why only freaks sort of run for it. Mamdani does not seem like he is using this. It may well be the sort of thing that leads to make it a stepping stone for national, you know, political ambitions, but it hasn't worked for any mayor in my lifetime. Yeah. And it's just generally not. So it's never worked for any

I can't think of a say even like LaGuardia, what extremely successful progressive mayor, you know, remember by the city never went out. Did he? Yeah, he never. I don't think he was the governor or anything. I don't think so either. But again, was a guy that like that is,

I think as a mayor, like that's the the standard that I feel like everybody could be going toward. He was just passionately about doing New York shit and doing things that people could see. But every park that we have, basically, except for Central Park, is like a Fiorello LaGuardia win. Yes. And the city could have gone any number of ways at that time. Like, there were this, you know, years after this sort of like machine that, like, generally it functioned, but it was very corrupt.

The idea of like making it so that you feel as if you're getting something from the place that you're living, like not getting it for free, but getting more or less what you should by rights feel entitled to, you know, expect from a place I think is a really powerful, you know, like for as a voter, it's the sort of thing where like seeing him talking about it, same extent, you know, like Landers, also a guy that was more of a technocrat, but was sort of like, here's how we're going to make this shit work better.

Like that's speaking my language. It's just also like it doesn't ordinarily resonate with non weirdos in the way that it did in this case. So what... So what... So what... So what... So what... So what... So what...

So what... So what... Watching Mondani, it really seems like he did the basic thing that politicians are supposed to do, yet almost never do, which is he established like a link with the place that felt genuine. And then he told people how he's gonna make their lives better.

This is what like every democratic consultant would tell you to do. Yep. And yet the people they consult with never actually do it. Yeah. The, what was brilliant to me about the chicken over rice thing was what I miss most about New York is the group mind of New Yorkers, you know, is that you feel like you are a part of a community of 8 million people. I remember when I first moved here and I had a commute from Brooklyn into Manhattan,

and I really felt like I'm a part of, like, I'm on the L train. We're all packed in. We all get out. We all get a coffee from the cart. It's 20 degrees out. You go into your, it's raining. Whatever it is, you're all facing the same thing. You're part of this Giant thing that's breathing in and out But you're also your own little ant walking along and so like why talk about chicken over rice? Like he didn't even do pizza. He didn't even do bacon egg and cheese, right? Which are like the famous New York Staples. He did chicken over Rice. That's a that's not a famous New York staple. It's just what people fucking eat. And so when he said that, I was like, it brought me back to living here,

to being just a little aunt scurrying around a subway tunnel and said, oh, this guy is he's part of the same world that I live in. Yep. And I think he's really clear. That's sort of like broad portion of New Yorkers, but it's basically if this is oversimplifying, but I think not totally, totally oversimplifying that if Cuomo was basically like running to be elected mayor by Long Island. And then Cuomo even knows that chicken over rice exists. He's not a guy that walks on the sidewalk.

He made a point of not taking the subway like everywhere he went, he has this black Dodge Charger that he drives, like the fucking guy from Burn Notice. That's how he gets from one place to the next. And he he drove it all through like midtown Manhattan. There were videos of him just like parking it in a bike lane so he could go in and like do an interview. Fucking like not a guy not doing New York shit. But I think the thing that that I'm not even like the message

that came through all of that is basically like New York is great. I like living here. It should be better. It should be easier. You shouldn't have to leave because you don't have enough money. Whereas like if you put that that is a positive message, it is promising a thing that he will or won't be able to deliver. But when you put that up against like a rich Westchester guy just doing Travis Bickle monologues,

like it's not, it just feels different. Like, and if you live here, if you like are willing to deal with the indignities of being a part of this living thing, because like part of, you know, like I agree with what you're saying. And I obviously I'm in the tank for New York. I don't want to leave. Like I've been here, I grew up outside of it

and living here was like something that. Like legitimately felt like what you do when you grow up, like it felt like a dream and then to actually be able to do it. Like it's still I can be romantic about it, but also part of being like on those days that you're describing where it's 20 degrees and like somehow it's slushy, but not snowy. You are not so much being breathed out by the subway as like crapped into the streets like, and it sucks, but also like it's a type of suck

that everybody shares more. Like not everybody is just like driving their Dodge charger up and parking on the fucking sidewalk outside their, that's cop behavior. That's like out of town shit. It's different. Well, so now that Zoran has won, a lot of American political culture is freaking out. The front page of the New York Times was so schizophrenic

where it was, you could tell that, to the extent that the New York Times is the house organ of like A, the Democratic Party and B, sort of high-end, educated Harvard elite America. They both had to recognize, oh, God, here's a new generational political talent who should be celebrated to some degree, but also there's some level of terror that we have. So the times went, they decided that they weren't going to endorse in elections anymore, which was like, you know,

I guess after you've endorsed like Amy Klobuchar and Elizabeth Warren at the same time, and then both of them instantly drop out, you're sort of like, oh, I don't, maybe we shouldn't do this. But they had, they wrote a sort of qualified unsigned editorial where they were like, do not rank Zoran Mamdani.

He does not deserve to be on your ballot. And then he fucking won. It wasn't just the sort were like, do not rank so on Mom, Donnie. He does not deserve to be on your ballot. And then he fucking won. It wasn't just the sort of like, they should be taking a look at themselves. And I just don't think that they're going to do that. It's part of the New York Times no longer being a local paper at all, right? They've cut all the local coverage.

They clearly have no connection with the city. They're only doing national reporting. And I mean, honestly, I'm, people criticize the New York Times all day long. I'm like the given the state of media in general, I'm like, thank God that there's one place that still employs that many journalists. Right.

Does plenty of good in the world. It's a complicated thing. Cause they've like, they've done a lot of stuff that I think is like authentically evil and has hurt a lot of people and will hurt a lot of people. They also are indispensable. Like, and those two things can have to exist in your mind at the same time.

But like they do important work. Also, though, like they should go to the Hague for the way they've written about trans issues like full stop. There's no apologizing for that. And also they employ like two or three of my favorite columnists. Like M. Gessen wrote an incredible piece after the Skirmety decision. Yeah. And also a great one about the sort of use and abuse of antisemitism in the mayoral campaign.

Like I think that, you know, employing M. Gessen and Jamal Bowie and all this, like that is a, it's an important thing. Somebody should be, I mean, obviously. Except someone is at the top of the New York Times going like, yeah, I employ people you do like, but it's also my job to employ the worst people in media. Yeah, right. Like the idea is you got to hear both sides, like these guys that actually know what they're talking about.

And then like Brett Stevens flat on his back dictating a column to himself from a beach chair somewhere like that's what that's both of them, both sides of the argument. Oh, the left is getting a little bit too upset about climate change. Yeah. It's the amount of work that is required. Like the writer just... Just taking a sip of his mark. In the Harkonnen bath, being like, uh, I'm a little concerned about the idea of government-run

supermarkets. That seems a little, that's a bit too far. Oh, I'm levitating. Hold on. Yeah. Fuck off, dude. Like, it's terrible bit too far. Oh, I'm levitating, hold on. Yeah, like, fuck off, dude. Like, this is terrible to me. Disgusting.

Yeah, so they have this freak out where they're like, oh, wow, he stuns Cuomo. He, oh, a new star rise in the Democratic Party, you know, is Mamdani going to bomb Israel? Yeah, that's the bit of it that it's been, and I don't know that it's possible to sustain this for the next few months, but I feel like if anyone could do it, it would be like The New York Times and Jake Tapper.

All of the discourse around Mamdani has been like, do you reject and denounce Hamas? And it's I mean, he was a Palestinian activist, like he is a Muslim man. There's no reason why this should be an issue here, especially because, like, he has said, like all of the stuff that he's been called to account for, he's given like very like articulate answers that are just not being accepted. What they need to hear is like Israel has a right to defend itself. Like all of that shit is like and why is that an issue here?

I think part of it is that still in the Democratic Party, there is a refusal to accept that defense of the Palestinian people are concerned about the actions of the government of Israel on any level is a legitimate political position, when in fact it is a part mainstream part of American politics. I'm not going to sit here and read a poll number about how many people are you know Concerned about you know the the Palestinians and what Israel is doing in Gaza But it's a large part of the American people a large and growing percentage of the American even if it's fucking 30% or something like that right I don't again

I think it's more but like it's not insane that you could have a political star rise who comes from that part of American political culture. Yeah, and that's the bit of it that I think really, like, is jarring to me outside of, I mean, my own politics on this are pretty well aligned with what Mamdani has said. But also, there's something about this feeling of being like policed by the times or by Jake

Tapper or by whatever, just this idea of trying to like make everybody get in line with this, you know, honestly pretty dead consensus that, you know, it's still the sort of the prevailing ideology in the Democratic Party. Not only do I think that it's futile, I think it's like, it feels insulting. Like there's a part of me where especially, and this is maybe more of a New Jersey opinion than a New York opinion, I did grow up in New Jersey. Like I get offended by being lectured about shit

or being talked down to about stuff by people that don't have any skin in the game the way that I do. And that like, and some of this is like with New Jersey, it's always people being like, yeah, your beaches are covered in syringes. And when I was a kid, I had to be like, well, you know, yeah, but like we like it that way. Fuck you. Whatever. Like, I don't know.

There's like a defiance kind of built into it. And to hear this attempt at like, like this election has real stakes for me outside of like what it means to elect a democratic socialist in a, you know, citywide election or whatever, like, I mean, that has stakes for me to ideologically, in a more practical sense, the city being governed by somebody who is not a cat's paw of literally Donald Trump, or somebody that hates New York and doesn't live here. That means a lot. I want the city to work better, because I don't want to

live anywhere else. This is my lot. I want the city to work better because I don't want to live anywhere else. This is my home. And the idea that all of that is somehow secondary to the offense against the, some sort of like imagine and politesque that like the Times editorial board or a couple of guys on TV have. Like you're gonna have to like stow that. We've got to fix our problems first. And then if you got like, if're going to have to, like, stow that.

We've got to fix our problems first. And then if you got like, if you want to talk to him about it, you can do it. But like this conversation is about a different thing. I think if anything, I hope that I don't think they're going to take this lesson. But like the establishment of the Democratic Party and like this part of the media, I think needs to take the lesson that like this extremely narrow position that they insist people take on the actions of the government of Israel doesn't matter as much as they think it does

in American politics. It's part of American politics. There can be disagreements about it. It will affect people's chances. But like, I've been here for three weeks now. It seems like literally the only thing they were running on was, you know, Mamdani supports Hamas.

And people in New York were just like, who gives a shit about how, what is the relevance of it? Doesn't seem like it, yeah. A, doesn't seem like it. B, I know a lot of people with a lot of different positions and this guy does not seem beyond the pale. And C, we're talking about where I live. Why is that?

Exactly. That's foreign policy. This is the mayor of New York. Yes, and there is. And so the attempt at nationalizing the race, I mean, Adams is gonna do it, Cuomo did it. It is a very, it's very the Democrats in 2025 to me

to try to fight this on national issues that you're also underwater on and confusing about that like that. I just don't see the percentage in it. Like this is the thing that's been like hardest for me to deal with. I mean, I understand that like a lot of these issues are important to donors and that the Democratic Party at the highest levels relies on big, only tenuously liberal people to fund it. And so I don't know that that makes me like sympathetic to what like Kirsten Gillibrand and Chuck Schumer are going through, but it like I understand how they got where they are.

It's not sympathetic, but you can say that's how the system works. I see the way it happened. The other thing though that is weird to me is that like, so this is a charismatic 33 year old progressive guy who just came out of nowhere, did a bunch of innovative stuff, beat this like heavyweight of the party and I think is going to be elected mayor. Yeah. Any party that was interested in actually winning

would be trying to take lessons from that and to see how determined they are to not just like not be like, all right, well, what worked here? What can we use? What kind of candidates like this can we find? They're just like, no, not like this. And that is loser shit, first and foremost.

But also it's just fucking confounding. It's unbelievable. Mamdani literally, you could look at his campaign as taking the lessons of why Democrats lost in 2024. And right after the 2024 election, Democrats were like, oh, it was inflation. The cost of living. Trump won by saying groceries, groceries, groceries. Here's Mamdani winning on saying, I'll make your halal cart meat two dollars less expensive. His entire campaign was about affordability,

which is inflation, which is the thing the Democrats said they should be running on. And engagement with the local people of the place that he lived. He ran a textbook campaign. He just like, oh, comes from a slightly more left wing of the party and has an opinion on the Israeli genocide of the people of Gaza that you don't agree with.

But fucking look at what he did, what you fucking want people to do. You want to win or not? Like, and to me, like this is like deepish mom, Dottie lore. First time I remember seeing a video of him. So this is in 2024. He went out. He was in the Bronx and he was in Queens in neighborhoods that. So nationally, New York City moved to the was in the Bronx, he was in Queens, in neighborhoods that, so nationally, New York City moved to the right

in the presidential election, more dramatically than any other metroplex. And so he basically was like doing almost that kind of like obnoxious YouTuber thing where you like walk up to someone in the park and be like, do we dance? You know, like, when you just kind of like running up on someone that maybe doesn't want to talk to you and ask them a question. But my daddy- I should start doing that. You should, it's when you just kind of like running up on someone that maybe doesn't want to talk to you and ask them the question.

But I just start doing that. I should. It's a good way to find out whether people eat ass or not. But it's also in this case, though, it was he would go up to people and be like, who do you vote for and why? And it was just like regular people on the street that would be like, you know, look like New Yorkers, but just be like, yeah, I voted for Trump because like it it's like really expensive to go to the grocery store now. Like, or like I drive a car and gas is really expensive.

And like, again, a lot of that is like, you can only do so much with it, but that's where it started. That was like sort of, if you wanted to like, take the genesis of this campaign back to, you know, in a way that only like real hard cores would even know about, That was basically it. He was like, what do you want?

And then he ran a campaign being like, I heard what you said you wanted, I'm gonna try to do it. Yeah. There is a lesson there. At a national level, you can't do what he did where he's just like, every 10th person in New York City has shaken his hand in the last three months.

Yeah. But maybe you could. I think you could definitely do more than what a lot of candidates do. There's one last bit, I don't wanna talk too much about him because I also know, I don't know how long these podcasts are allowed to be. We're cooking.

So one thing that he, it was a very clear contrast that they managed to not underline in an offensive way. But Andrew Cuomo's 67 and Zora Momdadi's 33. And in a lot of his videos, he is out doing, not just like doing New York stuff, but like walking, talking, doing stuff pretty quickly. This is another one of the weird skills he has

as a politician is that he's able to speak very fast and articulate very well. Like he could have been a great podcast, honestly. Yeah, he had all the tools. But he like, a lot of that stuff is like broadcasting a vitality that if you underline it, if you're doing the thing where it's like Andrew Cuomo, 67, could never go up down these stairs the way that I'm doing

it, that's rude, that's ageism. Yeah. But if you are just out there being like someone that is displaying energy and vigor in the way that he's doing it, I think that that kind of resonates. And this is it's not the only reason to oppose like democratic gerontocracy. But so many of the videos that have come out of like Congress members going to confront some fucking thumb head ice guy who's refusing to let them into the temporary prison

that they've started in like the old mall somewhere. That those videos, I appreciate that Democrats are doing it, but there is also an aspect of it that's like, the tone of it is kind of heartbreaking because it's like these like two kind of visibly frail 18 term members of Congress showing up and talking to some bouncer looking guy and being like, well, we want to get in. And he's like, no. And like, poor Gerald Nadler is not in any kind of physical condition to push past anybody. He's not, he

shouldn't be getting handcuffed. He's 80 years old, you know, like, and that, I think that like, to see a party that looks like it can get up and down and compete in like just the most basic physical sense, I think is important. Yeah. And you know, the fact that he seemed like he had good ideas that people could rock with is also cool. But I think that there's, you know, if we're talking about the energetic stuff underneath it, there's another lesson there to take. But I don't know how you get, you know, multi-term members of Congress or senators to retire. I think you have to retire them. And this is proof that like, you know,

even someone like Andrew Cuomo, who doesn't really have a constituency left, who everybody hated. I mean, he was just like a nasty man. Yeah. Even then, I think that you can see that like, a lot of people, a lot of elected officials, a lot of people with money just got behind him

because they're like, well, this is what you do. He's the guy. Yep. And I mean, one donor I read in the Times today was like donated $250,000. I love this quote. And he said something like, you know, a lot of people mistook my donation

for enthusiasm. My quarter million dollar donation. We were just like, well, it's Andrew Cuomo, might as well get on his good side in case he wins. Yep. Right? Like, oh, oh, ah, Cuomo. Yeah, he'll probably win. Okay. You know, this is what you do. This is status quo. Let's just do it as usual.

I assume probably Bill Clinton thought the same thing when he endorsed him. It's like Bill Clinton's not excited for Andrew Cuomo. He's just like, oh, Mario's son is asking. That's nice. Mario was a nice man. Yeah. It's like blurbing your friend's book. Yes. Yeah. Except for I mean that every time I've done it. It's different.

People mistake my very vague blurb for a lack of enthusiasm. I'll tell you, you got to play ball. But yes, that quote related quote is classic to me, like, because that's a nice reminder of like what it's actually like here to a certain extent, like guys that have a spare two hundred fifty thousand dollars going around being like, whatever, give

it to the fucking sociopath. I don't want to yell that. Yeah. And then when you look the next bit of that quote is the guy being like, I'll probably support mom, I mean, whatever. I don't know. Like, sure. Like all I'm trying to do is build foot lockers all

across this great city. And that's like, that's my passion. I just don't want anyone to get in the way of it. What's so frustrating is that, like, again, the way Mamdani won was by doing basic politics. Like, I've learned, I really enjoy politics. You know, I do, like, I'm an elected official in my union, right?

And one of the things I like about that was it was like, made me think about electoral politics. Like, oh, the whole thing is like, how do you get actual people to care about this and to show up and actually vote? Like that is the thing you have to do at the end of the day is people need to leave their house, go to the polling place and pull the little lever, right?

And how do you get them to do it? And like, it's kind of always the same job, whether you're in a union or whether you're in, I don't know, a fucking school board or whatever it is, or for mayor, and Mamdani went after it in this clear way. I'm gonna like show my affinity with people, I'm gonna be a part of the city, I'm gonna like listen to them.

And when he talks about it, he says this, like you can't tell them what to believe in, you listen to what they want, and then you say that that's what you'll do. It was basic, basic politics. And that can win. I've also seen it win in L.A. Like we've had a big progressive resurgence in L.A.

And it's been because people run for city council who say, I know you've never even heard of your city council or councilman before because they're just like some suit who's trying to avoid attention so they can cut corrupt business deals with developers. But guess what? If you elect someone who actually gives a shit, then- This is a real office. I can do stuff for you.

The city might get better, yeah. And they like literally go, hello, it's me, Nithya, you know. And he says like, Ugo, I'm a person, I live here and I could be a person to you and I could help. That's like the most basic, that's the back to basics of politics, right? If you do that and the other person doesn't do it, you can win. And so when the Democrats are out of power, you would think that, hey, why don't we go back to basics generally?

Why don't we figure out what people want and then tell them we're going to do the thing? And yet when you have this prominent, the most prominent example of someone fucking doing it, the national party is like, who is this guy? What's he doing? We got to stop this. Yeah. And we refuse to learn a lesson. It's it's incredibly frustrating. It's frustrating. And I think it also reflects a sort of like a tentativeness that is in the on the part of the Democrats that I think like scans

really easily and that like people respond to in a negative way where they, it's like they, there's a great internet hippo, I believe is the account that did the tweet. No, I know internet hippo, the famous sage. Beautiful internet hippo. We all love the internet hippo. This is why Trump won.

It's hard to not do that. It's hard not to do it. He doesn't even talk like that anymore. But we love the internet hipp This is why Trump won. Yeah, it's hard to not do that. He doesn't even talk like that anymore. But we love the Internet hippo. We love him. The Internet hippo tweet that I'm thinking about is that voting for the Democrats is like going to a rock concert where the band tells the whole time, spends the whole time telling the crowd to calm down. But there is a sense of like they want to win, but they don't want to like win

by so much that they then have to do stuff. The difference with this, like what you're describing in terms of like those city council races. I'll say that like so formative political experience of my life Like outside of you know, I like I vote in every election. I'm a good boy. Like it's just how you know, I was raised When I worked at vice this would have been like 2014 When I worked at Vice, this would have been like 2014. Vice still exists, but it was famously a lousy place to work. I was talking to Chris about this before, like off mic,

that like just a lot of disrespect from ownership towards the people that work there. It was, you know, people probably don't remember this. There's no reason why normal people should care about Vice. But it was like a venture backed youth media company that was trying to get real big and sell to somebody so that the founders could cash out. It was also a fun place to work.

I worked with a lot of really awesome people there. A lot of people did great work there. I have a lot of friends who worked there too. Yeah, and it was, you know, they more or less left you alone because the people that were in charge didn't read and didn't care what you were doing. So you could kind of, you know, do whatever you wanted to do, like within reason, it's like you didn't get sued.

But you weren't getting paid well. And there are people that worked there for a long time that were getting paid astonishingly poorly. And when we unionized that newsroom when I was there and the writers go east. Yeah. Yeah. And I was, you know, smallish part of it, but I was on the bargaining committee and I had some transparency

on the process. But the the experience I'm talking about was before we got anybody to sign cards, we got people to agree to go to a meeting, just like writers and, and, uh, you know, people that had like jobs that weren't like management level jobs. So the whole newsroom, more or less, um, it's like a hundred of us, uh. A big group of it went to a conference room at the Writers Guild of America East office building on Granite Street in Lower Manhattan. And we, you know, heard the unions spiel sort of about why it would be a good idea.

But then we, everybody sort of like talked about the experience of working at Vice, like what it was like for them. And you know, how this shit that they'd been asked to do for free, the raises that they had been denied for years, you know, the fact that they had like $60 in their bank account, even though they were like, you know, a junior editor at some website,

just because of like how shitty the health insurance was. All of this stuff was like, I've never been in a space that felt like that. Like it was, I think not just because of the fact that you could see that the things that were making your life hard were also making other people's lives hard. Although that is like the fundamental

of like getting somebody engaged in politics and making, you know, learning to demand what you deserve. But it was also, you could see that everybody else was kind of waking up to the idea that like, all of this suffering as individuals was not the only way that it could be. That like, there was that like, everybody was getting shit on,

like all of us in different ways, seemingly at random, just because management didn't care about it. And that like, if you got together and basically like asked for what you thought you deserved, this was the bit that, you know, the organizers had to do some convincing on and that some of the people that were important

to getting that movement off the ground, Brian Merchant, the tech journalist was a big part of it. You know, we had. We had to rally everybody and make them believe that it could be another way. But once people started to believe it, it was different. We did get a really good contract and we had to wait till the last fucking minute and we had to do a million meetings

and they were really insulting. And we had to threaten to do a walkout and almost do a walk out and all the shit that is just part of the kabuki of getting a contract. But we did it. And the experience of like starting with feeling atomized and powerless and kind of like shit on and getting from there to where we wound up is like, I mean, not just has it made me like somebody who believes in unions

in a way that is not abstract and that it is like really deeply felt, but it is also like that is a lesson that projects that scales and that like you, once you see that it's possible, you can bring to every aspect of life. And it changes you. Like, and I think that maybe I don't, you know, it's not like Democrats are trying to

make more 47 year old progressive New York Jewish guys. Like they've got a lot of us already, but I do think it's the sort of thing where there's a lesson there that like if you can get people to start understanding that they can get what they want if they ask for it insistently enough. And if you keep fucking pushing and ask for it, that's like the only way that you get out of the moment that we're in right now is enough people saying no to it.

And you know, like it's nice to be reminded that you have the option of saying no. Like otherwise it's really easy to sort of forget and recede in yourself. The other thing that is threaded through that story that you're telling and what just happened in New York is solidarity. Absolutely.

Which is, that's the most important union word and the more that I'm around it, the more it means to me. It's like as an emotion. Yeah. I think one of the most important emotions in my life. And- Because it's like a big union word, but it has, again, it's like, it's a way of being in the world.

It's a way of like seeing your responsibilities as a person. Yeah, when you're in the workplace and you're like, oh, I have my issues, you have your issues and they're linked and together we are strong and can fight back. That's so powerful. That is also the feeling that I said that I had

when I was in New York, when I lived here and I would ride on the subway with everyone on the L train and like go to the coffee cart, was solidarity with everyone else's experience. That's why, you know, people say, oh, New York is a cold place, it's unfeeling. You cry on the subway and no one says, are you okay? Because everyone knows that's what you need.

But if you trip and stumble in New York, two people will help you up, right? Cause you're trying to get on, we're all trying to get on our way. And that's what Zoran showed, right? Was like, yeah, the halal meat's too expensive. I have solidarity with you and we can do it together. He harnessed the latent solidarity of all New Yorkers to win.

Another great bit of that video, I think that's a really good point, is that it wasn't, there's another version of that from the perspective that is entirely that of the consumer, right, which is just like $10 for this, it used to be $8, what the hell, I'm gonna fix it. Going into the Halal card and talking to the guy that's making it and being like, hey man, what are you,

what's like, why does it cost this? Like, what are you going through? Yes. That's the difference, man, what are you? What's like, why does it cost this? Like, what are you going through? That's the difference, man. That shit works. Like, and I think that, you know, again, that is a way of seeing the world. Like, if you're completely in that, like, sort of the car brain thing,

where like everybody on the sidewalk is like somebody that might, you know, carjack you, and everyone crossing the street is like in your fucking way and everybody else is like trying to cut in front of you or whatever. Like you can only get so far seeing the world like that. But if you sort of understand it as being like, as being a part of a bigger whole that can be moved

like through a concerted enough effort from all those parts. It's a whole new ball game at that point. And if the Democrats were able to, or if anybody nationally, politically was able to harness that emotion of solidarity. It's so funny to talk about all this inspiring real shit and then just have to keep coming back to the Democrats. If Chuck Schumer could just experience solidarity, then we would solve American politics.

But it's the thing that's... Yeah, like corporate lawyer, automaton, Hakeem Jeffries. If only he had to transfer at Smith and 9th Street through that annoying underground tunnel from the F to the R, maybe we could maybe we can reach him. I mean, probably not. I don't know. I mean, look at the highest level of the labor movement, right? They have also forgotten the same lesson.

You know, if you look at like the head of the top of the AFL-CIO or whatever, you know, they have more probably a sense of solidarity than, than most organizations, but it, you know, you get to those levels, things become top down, they become political in the broader sense rather than political in the human sense. Um, and. You know, that, that lesson is forgotten, but to me, like the, the, the way to solve politics is to, you know, go from that street level where if you beat the pavement, if you have solidarity with the people

who are in your community and you actually address their real issues, you will always win. That'll always work at local politics. If you can bring that up the chain to the national level, like that is how you could actually like transform America for the better. And that's what I hope that somebody is paying attention to

with Zilran's win. Yeah, it's hard too. I mean, it's hard to like get, you know, this is a big country. There's a lot of different, you know, experiences of life here. I think that's part of what, you know, what was inspiring to me about the two Bernie runs

and the sort of the fight oligarchy tour or whatever it is, they recall on it that he was doing with. Yeah. Yeah. That like that to me like is an attempt at doing that. It's basically going someplace and like, you know, this was how he managed to run as well as he did was he

would go places and be like, tell me what you're going through more or less. Yeah. And there's, I remember videos of this. I mean, obviously it's like kind of played to be, I don't know if it's played. I mean, I believe it. I find Bernie Sanders to be a very admirable guy. But, you know, videos of him in like Iowa with like 15 people and someone's like,

you know, it's humiliating, burn the way I treat us at work, like all this stuff. And it's like. That's like people are programmed not to say stuff like that. Certainly you wouldn't talk to a politician like that a lot of the time, because it's like you just be mad at them because you assume that they're complicit in all the stuff that's happening to you. That's humiliating. So to have it be that people see themselves as like,

not just like customers of a politician or patrons of a politician, but like somebody who has like a relationship with them that they expect to be treated with respect. Yeah. That's a good place to start, but I guess it's probably easier said than done. I mean, the path forward has been charted a little bit. Yep, a little bit.

In the past week, it's pretty fucking sick to see. Thank you so much for coming on Talk to Us about it. Thanks for having me. I wanna talk to you about your wonderful work at defector. Give me the, maybe we'll come back later and do like a talk about like media, but just real quick for people who don't know defector, tell folks what it is and where they can find it.

Sure. So it's defector.com is the website. Briefly the origin story there. So after vice, I worked at a website called Deadspin that was like a sports and culture website. That company got bought by private equity. They fired our editor and then they fired another one of our editors, like our editor in chief. And we're basically trying to dictate what we could cover and what we couldn't. So all of us quit at the same time, and we started a new website in September of 2020.

Great time to be starting a business. And that but it was like we just we all wanted to stay working together. We are. And that's been was a popular website. It's probably a beloved website. It was like a bit like an old growth sort of Internet thing. And so we started again. It's a different model of subscription stuff. You can get a few articles to read and see if you like them.

But yeah, we started it and we're gonna turn five in September, like it's working. We've grown and there's more of us. And a lot of the core group that started it, some of them have gone on to go work at ESPN or Washington Post and stuff like that. But for the most part, we've hung together and we're having fun. It's a good website. And we've had a good few weeks. You, the journalists own it. Yes.

It is it is reader funded. And it is what I love about it is that it is like one of the last homes of really good, voicey, fun writing on the Internet. When I go read it, I'm like, here's some freak who's writing in great detail about something they give a shit a lot about. They're trying to make me laugh with their writing. They're not being ground down into either edited corporate speak or social media,

whatever pops on the algo. It's written by a human and it's designed to delight and inform and anger me. See, when you say it, I almost believe it. I feel good about that. Like that's how I would pitch it if I was more comfortable pitching shit like that. They mean like we have serious stuff

and we run real journalism, but the story that went biggest for us this week was by a very funny blog by Barry Pichesky about a hurdler competing in a race in Scandinavia who won and set a personal best despite the fact that his dick and balls fell out like five times during the race. There's there's video in the post, you know, very nominal fee if you wanted just a monthly subscription, you just wanted to see it.

But it was like that's still part of our bread and butter. Like, it's not like clickbait. Because that's fucking blogging, man. Yes, it is. And like, you know, I also wrote a serious thing about Andrew Cuomo. You know, like we had good, serious minded stuff. But like, yeah, it was the post with the words dick and balls in the headline was the one that drove the most subs this week. Look, incredible writing about politics, culture, sports,

dick and balls. Dicks, balls. That's what you get from defector.com. Go check it out. Dave Roth, thank you so much for being here. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. Yeah, it's been wonderful. Well, thank you once again to Dave for coming on the show.

And thank you to everybody who supports the show on Patreon. If you'd like to join them, head to patreon.com slash Adam Conover. Five bucks a month gets you every episode of the show ad free for 15 bucks a month. you every episode of the show ad free. For 15 bucks a month, I'll read your name in the goddamn credits. This week I want to thank, hey look a distraction, Nina Nochtman, Uber Elder, Avaro Eggburger, Tracy, Erin Harmony, Joseph Mode, Rodney Patnam, and Greg0692.

If you'd like me to read your name or silly username at the end of the show, head to patreon.com slash Adam Conover. We would love to have you once again. If you want to come see me on the road, the Moine, Iowa, Brea, California, Philly, Pittsburgh, I got some new dates coming up soon that we're going to announce in the near future. Head to adamconover.net for all those tickets. I want to thank my producers, Tony Wilson and Sam Roudman, everybody here at Headgun for making the show possible.

Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next time on Factually. I am at all it would probably be thanks to my job as an actress on shows like girls and in movies like Megan Recently when I was having a moment of gratitude for my group chat I thought I wish everyone could have these geniuses their fingertips like I do Well now you do hi. Hi, it's hope. Hey, babe. It's Jamie Welcome to our podcast landlines where we share our life sustaining and shame extinguishing friendship We have known each other and we've been friends for a very long time. Hope was my first best friend, but it wasn't mutual. I mean, it wasn't the story of my life.

I distinctly remember calling her on the phone and asking if she'd sit next to me on the bus, and she said maybe. At least she didn't say no. I was like, maybe he's meaner. She wasn't sure. Maybe he was like discerning. When I was pregnant, I started this group chat to prepare and crowdsource, I know. She was meaner. She wasn't sure. Maybe he was like discerning. When I was pregnant, I started this group chat to prepare and crowd source and it's

been such a delight to troubleshoot with our friend group. And we just had this thought, should we invite other people into our group chat? I'm a therapist. I'm a trained early childhood educator. And I'm well, you know, whatever I am, I guess someone who has the vibe of having it all together. And still the three of us find it hard to be moms, partners, friends, family members, professional women, and just, you know, adults. The stuff we're talking about, whatever the recent fight was with our partner or the parenting concern we have or a funny thing with our kids,

or it's like, what's going on with my body? I feel like I have a family of squirrels living in my lower abdomen. I feel affirmed, I feel normalized, I feel like I'm not going fucking crazy. And I had to talk it out with you guys with different perspectives and different identities that you're juggling. Totally.

Lifelong friendship has been our lifeline. We sincerely hope our conversation makes you feel less alone in whatever you're going through. So subscribe to Landlines on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes are out now on Headcom. Love you!