Focused - 100: Staying Focused with Episode 100

Episode Date: May 26, 2020

It's Episode 100 and Mike and David are looking back and looking forward in terms of focus.

Welcome to Focus, a productivity podcast about more than just cranking widgets. I'm David Sparks, and I'm joined by Michael Schmitz. Hello, Mike. Hey, David. How's it going? It is going great. We made it to episode 100. Yes, we did. With a little help from Jason Snell. Yep, a big boost from Jason Snell.

Yeah. But anyway, this is episode 100 of the Focus podcast. So it gives us a chance to kind of take a look at how we're doing and the topic of being focused in general. We got a lot of great feedback from listeners. We've got some of that in the outline as well today. So we've got a full show for you today. But before we get there, there's a few things we wanted to share. Both of us have made stuff lately. Tell us about your new habits course, Mike. we wanted to share. Both of us have made stuff lately. Tell us about your new habits course, Mike. Sure. So we just launched, as we record this, we did a webinar today actually for the suite setup on Simple Habits. And the course that goes along with this is something that I've been

working on for probably a couple of months now. This is kind of the other bookend to the time blocking course for me. This whole quarantine has kind of forced me to reevaluate a lot of different things. And I found myself pushing back against the digital stuff that I was using and embracing the pen and paper with the bullet journal, which is probably a whole episode in there at some point in the future. But the other piece of that was revaluating all of my routines and understanding what habits are working, what habits aren't, why, and redesigning things basically with a new normal in mind. So this is kind of the culmination of all of that experimentation I was doing on myself and research into habits. Obviously, James Clear and his Atomic

Habits is a great resource for this. I've also been going through Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg, which has been really cool. He's got some new models and things that really were aha moments for me in there. And this is just a short kind of crash course in habit formation. There's a bunch of bonus like interview type stuff. So Sean, obviously he's got his all his interview and kind of his morning evening routines are in there. Sean, our friend Sean McCabe is in there. People like that. So it's at the suite setup.com slash habits, and it will be discounted for the first week that it is available. So the list price is $39. Not a big course by any means. There are six main videos on habit formation, a couple on using streaks and good notes,

and then all of the bonus stuff. But it's not something that's going to take you like a week to go through. It's probably a couple of hours total content, just kind of designed to help you recreate some solid morning and evening routines, make sure you're protecting the golden goose, paying yourself first, that sort of thing. But something that I think is very timely and very important regardless of the season that you find yourself in. I feel like if memory serves, we made James Clear's Atomic Habits book a big subject of discussion in our very first episode of Focused. And I'm pretty sure that's correct. I feel that habits are the secret weapon to getting to focus. I mean, I think it's one of the best ways that you

can get yourself into a discipline of focus. And because so much about focus is resistance and habits can break down that resistance. So I'm really glad you guys made this course. I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to have to go watch it. I haven't seen it, but I'm excited. Awesome. Yeah, it's really the inspiration for this is partly James Clear in the Atomic Habits stuff. That was kind of the thing that got the ball rolling for me in terms of the importance of habits. But I've really been brewing on this idea of goals. And the more I think about goals, the more I dislike them. In fact, the first video in this product is called Goals Are Dumb

because there's this confirmation bias that's attached to goals where you interview the player who made the game-winning shot in the NBA championship and they always say something like, well, we had a goal at the beginning of the year. We worked hard. We knew we were going to be here, but what about the other 31 teams that didn't win? Didn't they have the same goal? Of course they did. So if goals aren't the thing that are going to create the outcomes that you really want, then what are the things that are going to get you there? And I really do believe it's those routines and those habits, those little things that typically people don't really see.

It's the stuff that happens kind of behind the scenes a lot of times. It's not the stuff that people share on social media. It's not as sexy, but that's the stuff that really moves the needle. Well, I also think, and from my own experience, that habits change your self-image in a way that almost nothing else can. I mean, you can sit there and BS yourself that you're going to be good at this or good at that, but once you start doing it day in and day out, you actually believe, you know, you get doing it day in and day out you actually believe you know you get religion about it and it it really just makes a difference i will have

we've covered on the show before i'm sure we'll cover it again but good on you guys for getting that out uh the reason i wasn't able to watch it is because i have been buried underwater of screencasting and i just released the new photos field guide. So I released a photos field guide like five, six years ago. I've kind of lost track of when the first one came out. This is a brand new second edition, all new. It's six hours of video, 123 videos. This is not an afternoon watch for you, probably a couple of days, but I just wanted to make a field guide that really explained everything you need to know about Apple Photos on the various platforms. That was one of the challenges.

I had to make videos for not only the Mac, but iPhone and iPad. So that added a lot of content. And I had a little project scope creep here because I also explained how to take photos and use all the features in the camera app and backup. I also explain how to take photos and use all the features in the camera app and backup. And I just tried to do a soup to nuts coverage of someone who owns an iPhone and wants to take good pictures. So I'm very happy with it. It came out. It's $24 as this podcast airs.

It's going to go up to $29 shortly after. So get in there and get it if you want it. I hope you enjoy it. Very timely, too. I'm not sure if you were aware. May is actually National Photography Month. So really? Well, I intended to release it two months ago, so I guess I planned it that way. I planned it for May. I think this is great. And just a plug for the importance of photos. I've found that during this quarantine, I've been taking more photos because I'm home with my family.

I have been trying to be more intentional about capturing the moments where we are together. And I've been really happy with some of the stuff that I've gotten during this time. But then obviously the next step is, okay, I have this picture. What do I do with it? And if you spend a little bit of time jumping into the photos application, there's actually quite a bit that you can do with it. So I'm excited that you're teaching people how to do these things. And I've seen the photo guide that you put together, and I like the way that you break it down into the different things. So you don't have to watch three hours of video to find the thing that you want. You can jump to this little video on how to do

this specific thing to create the the effect that you need you know that sort of thing is is very helpful and i think it's something people should be thinking about right now the importance of of photos and in as a kind of visual journaling during this time yeah i i included i use my actual family library for the field guide because it's got 50,000 images in it. And I think people need to see the app being used under load. You know, I mean, it doesn't make sense to have a lot of people make screencasts. They have 200 pictures. Well, of course, it's going to work great because there's only 200 pictures.

What if you really throw thousands at it? And the kind of one of the insights I got is that Apple Photos, although it's good about organizing and editing and sharing pictures, there's a whole different problem these days, and that's discovering pictures. And they actually do a good job of that, too. But that's a whole different thing you have to solve. But anyway, enough about that. We're at episode 100 of the Focus podcast. Well, I guess I should say where you can get it. It's at learn.maxbarkey.com.

You go there. It's the first one there. And that discounted price is, like I said, going to be there just shortly after this episode releases. So get in there if you want it. of stopping and looking around once in a while, anniversaries and then podcasts. It seems like the hundred series episodes are a good one. And we had an idea, what is it, a year and a half ago now? What if we did a show where we just talked about the concept of being focused? How are we doing, Mike? Well, this is interesting because on one level with a topic of focus, you can think that we'll quickly reach the depths of what there is to cover here. But I have found that the longer we go with this, the more avenues are opening up and the more important focus is becoming. avenues are opening up and the more important focus is becoming. So I don't feel like we are running out of things to explore or to say on the topic, but that was kind of a concern of mine when we started this. Well, I mean, my feeling with all these, with all the podcasts really is if we've

got an interesting topic, we cover it as long as we've got something to say and if we don't anymore then we'll stop stop doing it but but this one in particular i feel like there's a lot of gas in the tank still because the um you know this topic it's all encompassing it sounds easy let's get focused but it's so hard and i think right now as i said when we first introduced the idea of a show on focus, is that is, I believe, the modern day superpower. Everything in the world, from the mobile devices to the apps to TV, is designed around micro bursts of your attention. Whereas 20 years ago or even longer, it was very easy to have secluded times of focused work. In the modern day world, those are increasingly hard to find. And the only way we're going to get that kind of work done is if we go and take it.

We wrestle it out of the grips of technology and the rest of the world. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, too. Focus is not a knowledge problem for a lot of people. Right. Yeah. Yeah. where there are things that you can glean from there that really can be transformational. But I think a big part of this is recognizing that you're on a journey and there are fellow travelers who join us every week as we figure these things out. So the more that I understand

how focus works, the more I understand how bad I am at it. And that's okay, because when I understand where I'm likely to fall, then I can put up the systems and the safeguards to help me keep my monkey brain focused on the thing that it's supposed to be dominating my attention at any given moment. But that's the struggle for everybody. And that's what's kind of unique about this is that we're all in the same boat, I think. We're all struggling with the same things. And yeah, like you mentioned, there's this battle going on all around us for all of these different things that are vying for our precious limited attention. And so this is something that we all have to learn to master. And maybe master isn't even the right term because I'm not sure you can achieve a level of proficiency at this where you never have to worry about distraction anymore.

Practice it. The more that you recognize what's going on, that's a big piece. And then kind of these are things that move. The targets move over time. And so recognizing how the strategies and the tactics are changing, I think it's kind of cool to hear from other people who are doing different things and fighting the same battles, but maybe using some different weapons. Yeah. I mean, just in my own experience, I've been on this roller coaster of focus the last, well, I would say since this whole pandemic thing started and we've already done a whole show on it. I don't need to go into the details, but I just have these periods where I cannot get focused work done. I had this field guide launch this week and it was very nearly done two weeks ago i was down to you

know the very end of production work but then there's always a million little things to do before you launch and like one of the i make a combined versions because there's so many videos i combine them so you can download just a few and get them all instead of having to download 123 videos um but the uh but that's like a like a progress or a task I need to do. And there's all these little things I need to do. So last week, I didn't have any podcasts except Mac Power Users, just for whatever reason with the scheduling I had last week largely off. And that is a massive influx of time because not only do I spend time recording these podcasts, I spend time prepping for them. And I thought, that's great. I'm going to get all this stuff done. And last week I got

none of it done. I mean, it was like my kids are moving back home and I'm like, I was hanging TVs and volunteering to do anything but the work that I knew I needed to be working on. You know, have you ever had a week like that where you are knowingly, knowingly giving up the focus train? You're just letting it fly. And then, of course, over the weekend, suddenly I realize, oh man, I'm releasing this thing next week. I got to get all this work done. And now I'm focused like a crazy man on this project. And it's just like, who am I to make this podcast? Because I still can't seem to manage this half the time yep definitely the the uh the imposter syndrome is uh definitely gonna alive and well up when you

yeah when you when you uh encounter those see that's the thing that we all have our kryptonite we all have those things that can derail us for some people it's the procrastinate working it's not you know hanging tvs for your children who move back home but it's finding something that is on the fringes of work but not really the thing that moves the needle i mean a lot of these topics we've talked about at length and they're all related but they also are constantly evolving so recognize what those triggers are, you know, and that's really the main, if I were to pick a theme from the last however many episodes that we've been doing focus specifically, it's adjust and repair. Recognize what's really going

on and then try something to fix it. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. And if it works, repeat it. If it doesn't, try something else. But that mindset, that's really important. I guess if you were to encapsulate that, it would kind of be like a growth mindset where you're not afraid of trying something that doesn't work. You're not afraid of failing. When you fail, you just figure it out one way that doesn't work and then you go try something else. But embracing the challenge that focus is, is important. In the words of Ryan Holiday, the obstacle is the way. The more that you pursue focus, the more likely you are to have those moments where you're not focused or at least recognize those moments are happening. But also the more likely you are to really land on

the ultimate good, which is those moments where you're truly in the zone and the words are flowing or whatever you're doing is easy. Well, and I also think there's a component of this of picking your unit of time. Like last week, when I had my epic failure, I decided around Wednesday that the week was an epic failure. Wednesday that the week was an epic failure. And as a result, every item on my wife's honeydew list got done. You know, every like my cabling under my computer desk is beautiful. You know, it's like all this stuff was happening when I knew what I needed to be focused on wasn't happening. And I gave up the week. You really need to get that down to the day or the hour to say, okay, this day or this hour, it didn't work out. Next

hour, next day, I'm getting back on the horse. Using a week as your unit of time for this, yeah, that's not probably a very good idea. Sure. Yeah. Although really the value is in continuing to refine the filter. So maybe the place to start is the week. But then if you can identify the specific event eventually, which caused you to go off the rails, obviously that's where you want to get to. And that's where the whole idea of like the quantified self or the time tracking, all of those things come in is you don't recognize those moments when they happen. But if you've got some data, you can go back and you can find them maybe a little bit easier. And not saying that you need to do all of those things.

You don't have to track every second of your day. Although we've both learned some lessons from that. So it's that constant experimentation, trying to find the right formula which allows you to do the things that you want to do. you to do the things that you want to do. And that's the beauty of focus, in my opinion, is that you get to choose what is the appropriate thing to be focused on at any given moment. Maybe you do have responsibilities that you have to balance. Maybe you do work in an office environment where things are crazy and you can't control the majority of your day. But the moment that you leave that office, maybe there's a small piece of that that you can control and you're going to start directing your focus. You're going to put up the boundaries. You're going to

say no email at home, whatever it is. And the moment that you do that, you get a little bit more control and a little bit more peace, a little bit more calm. And you feel like things aren't as bad as they were before, because you have this little piece over here that you have control over. And it gives you hope that you're not at the constant whims and the waves of the desires of everybody else around you, that you actually have a stake in the outcome, that you can pull some levers and you can improve your situation. And I feel like that's something that everybody should be striving to have, even if it's one small little sliver of your personal or professional life. This episode of Focus is brought to you by ExpressVPN. High speed, secure, and anonymous

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and get an extra three months for free. Protect your internet today with a VPN that keeps your data safe. That's expressvpn.com slash focus. And our thanks to ExpressVPN for their support of Focused and all of RelayFM. All right, Mike, so let's spend a little bit of time talking about the subject of Focused and any insight we've got since we spent so much time on it. I think one of the things for me and one of the benefits of this podcast, in addition to you, dear listener listening, is it's forced me to be engaged with the subject of focus and

look at it and look at myself on a daily basis. And I think that the mere awareness of the problem and attempting or the active attempt to solve it serves such a big purpose. And I've come to think of the idea of focus really as sustained intentionality. Intentionality is great, but intentionality over a couple hours is something else entirely. I completely agree. The word intentionality, that has kind of been messing me up for the last year or so. And really because when I started considering the role intentionality plays in focus, it forced me to deal with all of the default behaviors I was recognizing in myself that were not intentional. And I wasn't happy with seeing some of that stuff, some of the things that I just gravitated towards. Putting on Netflix or Amazon Prime at the end of the day and vegging out on

the couch instead of doing something intentional that is going to be building my relationships with my wife or my kids or setting myself up for success the next day by doing time blocking or journaling. And there can be a lot of shaming that can happen when you just hear somebody talking about one of those things and you're like, oh, that's a great idea. I should do that. That's kind of what happened with me when I first heard about planning your day the night before. I was like, oh, that's a great idea. A lot of really successful people that I know are doing this sort of thing. I should totally do this too. But I didn't really think about how to change any of the other things that were going to be happening around that. And so that was the thing that obviously just didn't make sense, didn't

really fit. And I wasn't consistent with it. And then I was like, oh, I guess I'm not really good at this. And I started beating myself up because I wasn't able to apply the intentionality there when it really, I just never gave myself a fair shot with it. And so I've been thinking a lot lately about how can I flip some of these switches? And the whole quarantine thing, this has kind of been in some ways a cool reset for me, where the evening routine specifically has kind of been reinvented. And one of the things that we've been doing, and we've talked about this in episode 99, I think, with Dave Calo, is that we're playing board games every single night. Do I always feel like playing a board game? No, I don't. But we have the time

and space to do it. We've been doing it consistently enough where it's kind of become a habit. And now I recognize that we've played 60 some days worth of board games with my kids before they go to bed. And I'm starting to see them looking forward to those sorts of things. And I'm kind of seeing the I'm starting to see them looking forward to those sorts of things, and I'm kind of seeing the fruit of that intentionality. And it makes me wonder, you know, when things go back to normal, what do I want to allow back in? I don't think I want to just sign up for all the things that we were signed up for. I don't want to have to spend all night on Mondays at piano lessons because that's what we were doing before. Maybe there's a better way to do this and we can still protect some of that precious time that we have and apply the intentionality that we've been able

to building those relationships as a family when we are able to do some of the things that we were doing previously. But it's a constant struggle. And that sustained intentionality, that's kind of the holy grail. But I think recognizing that, recognizing the moments that that happens and celebrating those gives you positive reinforcement to continue to seek those things out. For me, the positive reinforcement is seeing how much my kids love looking forward to the board games and the photos that we've taken during the time that we spend playing together. And all that stuff kind of adds up and it creates a monumental case for the sustained intentionality. a monumental case for this sustained intentionality.

Because I think about focus quite a bit, one of the obvious questions is why is it so hard? And my own personal observations of myself, number one, it is something like a muscle. I think that having extended periods of focused thought is something that you don't just wake up and do for five hours straight. I think you build yourself up for it. But I also think that one of my challenges in terms of focus are if I don't have enough of an investment in what I'm about to do, then the focus is harder to hold. And so just to give you a couple examples, two things that happen to me often, a client asks me to write a contract, or I decide to make something for Max Barkey, it's a blog, or it's a screencast, it's a podcast, whatever. I look at those as things I need to do to move the needle. But what I didn't think about, and I don't know where this came in in the process, but I didn't think about fundamentally why am I doing this?

What is the goal that this is serving? Why is this important for me to do? I mean, it's not important just because you say it's important. You've got to believe in your heart. And I actually give thought when I'm about to do something important like a client contract, I'll say, well, why am I doing this? I'm doing this because this person is relying on me to protect them into the future. And they need me to do a good job on this. And I'm helping this person. And I think that several times a day as I have a block of time, and it's just, it's become a habit for me now that when I have a block, I'm like,

I ask the why before I begin. And I find that makes a huge difference for me in holding that sustained intentionality. I think a big piece of the sustained intentionality is doing the things that you want to do. Like the client's examples that you mentioned, you want to do. Like the client's examples that you mentioned, I'm not exactly sure how you view those, but I'm sure on some level, you're taking those jobs because ultimately you want to take those jobs, whether it's what you get from doing the job or the feeling that you get from helping somebody solve their legal problem. But I think that you don't have to constantly be doing things that are fun in order to enjoy the things that you are doing. This kind of gets into the whole idea of passion. What are the things that are really valuable to you? The things that you're willing to push through some things in order to see them come about? What are some of the things that

you're willing to fight for? And for me, you know, as I'm talking about the sustained intentionality with like the game nights for my kids, as the most recent example that's fresh in my mind, recent example that's fresh in my mind, that's become something that I'm fighting now to protect. And I think taking a moment to think about the things that I'm going to be doing, are they the things that I would choose to do? And not, again, saying that you can control every aspect of your day, but if there was one thing that you could really make the time to do, what would it be? And then think about, is there a way using this sustained intentionality, this concept of focus, to carve out the time to make that thing happen. If you're able to do those things, that can significantly increase the satisfaction that you get. I don't want to say like the quality of your life, but it really is kind of a quality of life thing. For a lot of people, you know, they,

a lot of people in my position, for example, young kids at home, they say that they want to have more quality time with their family. But the time that they have with their family really isn't quality time, not because of the limited quantity, but because they're not able to protect the focus and the intentionality when they do sit down to play the board games. So that's something that I've been really thinking about. And I don't know, how do you balance that, David? How do you frame the things that end up on your time-blocked bullet journal? How do you select the things that really are in alignment with your vision and your values for your life? when you said the word fun, it derailed me a little bit as I was listening to you, because to me, fun really isn't a very big part of it. I guess there are parts of my life that are fun. And I, I block out, you know, time with my kids and playing my saxophone because that's just something I do for the simple process of doing it. It's a, it's a very kind of, maybe I would

say selfish endeavor, but, but endeavor, but we need those two. But the stuff that, the moving the needle stuff, which is producing something for Max Barkey or serving a client, I don't do those primarily for the money. Money is definitely part of it because I need to be able to continue to do them. If I don't get paid, I can't keep doing them. But there are much bigger itches being scratched by those. I get a great deal of satisfaction out of being a trusted advisor to my clients. They know when there's a problem with whatever they're doing, they call me. I can give them solid advice or get them to somebody who can give them solid advice.

I go to sleep at night and sleep better and feel better about myself and the world around me because I am performing that service. I kind of feel the same way about the Max Barkey stuff. You know, I feel like with my legal clients, I have a massive impact on their lives. And with the people who read Max Barkey or watch the field guides, I have a smaller impact on their lives, but I'd like to think it's a positive impact regardless. So in both phases of my life, I'm making a difference. And I think maybe, I guess that's the root of it for me is I'm spending this time focusing because I feel like I can make a difference. And that's a big deal to me. I'm not really sure why, but it is. That's kind of what I was getting at. I like the way

that you frame that. So your identity basically is David the difference maker. Yeah, I never really thought of it that way, but yeah, I guess you'd say that. And the way that you do that is different based on the different avenues, but that is your purpose. That is your passion. You're willing to put in the work to make those things because of the difference that you're able to make in people's lives whatever however big or small that that happens to be in the avenue that that plays out and that's the thing i think that's worth thinking about for everybody is what is that identity that you want to be associated with and then what are the things that you're going to do that will cast the vote for that identity that you want to be associated with? And then what are the things that you're

going to do that will cast the vote for that identity? It kind of gets back into the whole habits thing, but the sustained intentionality, that's applicable here too, because once you have that identity, then you have to have the focus and the intentionality to follow through and do the things that will help you to validate that identity, whether it's to be a great dad or a great business owner or a great lawyer or a great screencaster. I mean, it's going to be different for everybody, but I think that's something that we don't think about very often. We can get so caught up in the day-to-day. This is just the tasks and the projects that I have to do that we never really stop to ask why are we doing them?

How is this really helping us become who we want to be? Yeah, it's funny. As you're talking through it, I'm thinking about an experience I had a few weeks ago. I fired a legal client because I was working really hard for this person and they were not taking my advice and they were doing things that I thought were mistakes. And the reason I fired them, well, number one is, you know, if you can't

take my advice, then why you're wasting your money. I don't want you to waste your money. But also I had zero energy for that client because this was an ongoing thing for about a month. And I found every time I picked up that file, it just sapped everything out of me. And I finally said, you know, you just got to go get a different lawyer. I was, I was just spinning my wheels and it was just a crushing to me to try and like deal with that problem so much so that I was willing to just walk away from it. Yeah. And that's the thing that everybody has to identify for themselves is like, what is the thing that's going to cause you to, to push through that stuff. And so for you, you know, knowing that you weren't really making a difference, that saps a lot of the energy and the motivation that you have to stay focused on that thing. And you find yourself when you are

working on that particular client's project that you want to be working on something else instead. And I think that's a whole nother side topic, by the way, with side projects and things, which we'll actually get to in a little bit here. But I'm really struck by something Mike Rowe, the guy who did the Dirty Jobs, said a while back about passion. He said, don't follow your passion, but always bring it with you. or that show that he did, Dirty Jobs, where he's doing all these crazy jobs. He obviously had a passion for doing those things. And you could see it in his approach to the things that he was being asked to do. His curiosity basically got the best of him. And the ability to apply that passion to whatever it is you're working on, that's kind of an interesting topic. And it also is very empowering, I think, for a lot of people. So maybe you find yourself in a situation where you don't think you're being paid enough or some certain aspect of your situation you don't really like. That doesn't mean that you can't apply the sustained intentionality to what you have to do in the given moment, but spend some time into thinking about how can I attach this to a higher motivation, a higher purpose, vision, and values for the future that I want to create.

The legacy maybe that I want to leave. I mean, just that client that I fired was one that always paid their bill immediately. It wasn't the money. I could have always earned money from them. And like, even just thinking it through further right now with this pandemic, I've got several clients that I'm helping that can't afford to pay me. And some of them, I don't know if I will ever get paid, you know, because of what's going on, they may not have a business in six months. So I know that, but I'm rowing with them and trying to help them. And there's, it really is an interesting vantage point for me, you know, to think about it in that way. But the underlying point is to keep focus, you've got to have that motivation. And reminding yourself of it, I think, will really help you to sustain it because it's hard. the dread of staring at a blank page or that blinking cursor when they sit down to write.

Even though they've done it maybe every single day for years, there will still be moments where they feel apprehensive, where they feel, oh no, I've run out of things to say. Another piece of insight I've had thus far talking about it with you and making this podcast is I do think focus is a thing that quite often you have to start over again on. You know, you never really get there. And when you have a bad day or a week like I did last week, you just got to get back on and just grab little pieces of focus to start with and build yourself up again. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's interesting to me too, how the systems that I've used in my life to help facilitate the focus have evolved and have changed. I remember when I first came across

getting things done by David Allen and I'm like, this is the answer. I can now do everything. Yeah. And I fired up OmniFocus and started tracking all my tasks. And what I realized is that that did solve a lot of problems that I was experiencing at that particular season of my life, which was basically how do I get done what I need to get done so I have a little bit more time to spend with my family. But that's changed over the years, and my perspective towards following GTD to the letter has kind of changed. The latest thing for me, even though I am very much a tech nerd, has been the bullet journaling because it just makes me feel better where we are right now in the midst of the COVID-19 stuff. That's really important. I find that my emotional state very quickly can be the thing

that if I don't keep an eye on it, that's the thing that's going to break the sustained intentionality and the focus for me. So I've had to do different things, but one of them has been using pen and paper. That has brought me joy. And yes, it is less efficient. It makes me slow down. But that has been the right thing at the right time for me. And there will probably be a time in the near future where this just isn't moving fast enough for me and I switch to something else or I evolve this system and I incorporate some different pieces of it. We were chatting before we hit record about some different things that I've been playing around with, like Rome research. But that's part of the journey. It's also part of the struggle too, like the whole shiny new object syndrome. How do you figure out whether this thing actually has a fit and the value that

you're getting for it is more than the price that you're paying in terms of just switching everything over to a new tool. But don't be afraid. I guess my point here is don't be afraid to experiment. Don't be afraid to try some things. And don't be afraid to say, well, this really worked for Mike, this really worked for David, but it's not going to work for me. That's completely okay. I've thrown a lot of ideas overboard, but you still try them on. You've got to know when to hold them and when

to fold them. When it comes to that sort of stuff. I wouldn't think a guy your age would know who Kenny Rogers is. Yep. I'm a very, very diverse musical, musical taste. There you go. This episode is brought to you by Pingdom from SolarWinds. Today's internet users expect a fast

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that's pingdom.com slash RelayFM and use the code FOCUSED to get 30% off your first invoice. Our thanks to Pingdom from SolarWinds for their support of FOCUSED and all of RelayFM. We got a bunch of feedback from listeners. Some of them sent in audio comments. I thought it was kind of fun, so we'd include a few of them. Let's hear about the emotions and psychology of FOCUS focus from Michael. Hey, David and Mike, this is Michael from Northern Illinois. And I just want to say I'm so pleased that you've gotten to 100 episodes because I really like the podcast. And I wanted to say thank you for probing the difficult emotions and psychology involved in focusing on what's

really important to you. It's not easy to put yourselves out there for us. So I really appreciate it. Looking forward to 100 more episodes. Well, that was very generous of Michael. I think I stumble into the hippie stuff on this show too often, but most listeners seem to get something out of it. The reason I talk about it, honestly, is I just don't really feel that compelled to keep secrets about this stuff. And I feel like I also need affirmation that it's okay for me to make the show because I am such a screw up when it comes to focus so often.

Aren't we all? the psychology of focus, because I think that in this particular space, there tends to be a top-down communication of, I have this figured out, and this is the way to do it. But as we talked about even in this episode, there's no one-size-fits-all for this. Things are constantly changing and evolving. What worked yesterday may not work today. So you have to be willing to try some new things. And I would like to think that people benefit from us being willing to share our failures. I'm hoping that's the case anyway. Because the truth is that we all fail with this stuff from time to time.

We just have to constantly be asking the right questions and constantly be making small adjustments. So if there was one thing that I would hope that people get from this show, it would be the permission to make mistakes. the permission to make mistakes. Somebody, I think it was a Buddhist teacher once, talked to me about the brain being the rebellious organ. And I always love that phrase because it is. You have something you want to do,

but the lizard brain, monkey brain, all the various parts of your brain are constantly at war with one another. And if you can observe it in yourself and even just kind of have a laugh at yourself once in a while and let your guard down, I think that's a really healthy way to try and work your way through this stuff. Regarding the emotions of focus specifically, I would say that if you were to try to maintain the facade that you've got it all figured out, that's more stress and more effort than I am willing to give to maintain that reputation. It's just easier to admit that you struggle with this stuff. Exactly. Exactly.

I guess you could have it all together if you lived in a cave and you did one thing a day. But then you live in a cave and you do one thing a day. Who wants that? And I don't want to make it seem like everybody else who does say those sorts of things are liars, but I would feel not authentic if I were to take that tact, that approach. And I just feel like that's just too much effort. The truth is way simpler. So yeah, I'm going to share how I mess up with this stuff too. Yeah. But there is also this emotional component to it and a running thread throughout the show. And something I hope everybody that

listens to it gets is that you need to be forgiving on yourself. I think the emotions, you get mad at yourself, frustrated with yourself as you struggle with these things. And as I was frustrated with myself last week, as I was knowingly thumbing my nose at the idea of focus, and I knew future me was going to pay a steep price to catch up for all the time I wasted last week. But, you know, I'm not angry. I'm just like, okay, that was dumb. Turn the page, do better, you know. And I think if you can take kind of a healthy attitude towards it and separate some of the emotions, it makes the task a lot easier. Do you have any sort of tips for separating the emotions? Like you mentioned in the last section there about how past you was kind of annoying to present you.

Does dividing those up into different personas help with that sort of thing? Or how do you battle beating yourself up when you do make the mistakes? I've been meditating for 30 years. So one of the things, practices you learn with meditation practice is how to take apart self-anger, self-doubt, you know, all the things that most people, you know, the second arrow type emotions. And so if I have, if I get hung up on something like that, I will meditate on it. And the, by that, and this doesn't require you to burn incense and wear a robe. What I'm just saying is you take apart the emotion. Okay. I'm angry at myself because I did that. Well, why are you angry? You know, what are the components of the anger? What happened? And then like, for instance, last week, what I really kind of concluded was my whole house

has been turned upside down with my family all moving back. My wife lost her job. I'm trying to keep her, you know, I want her to feel comfortable that this is going to be okay. My kids are being told they can't start school next year. They're upset. They can't see their friends. I mean, there's a lot of things going on in the world.

And what I ended up doing last week was a lot of support for them. I was saying I was hanging TVs, but I was hanging TVs with my kids. I was teaching my daughters how to install lighting fixtures. And I was taking the dog on walks with my wife. And it's just all of a sudden when I was taking the dog on walks with my wife. And it's just all of a sudden when I start taking the emotions apart, I'm like, oh, okay, I kind of see what I was doing there. And it wasn't really intentional, but it came out okay. And now I did that and actually it helped in a lot of ways, but now I need to do the part that's going to get the bills paid. And,

and then I turned the page, you know, I turn the page. So take it apart is, I guess, what I'm saying. Don't just stop at anger. Don't stop until you get to the fundamental pieces. And if you can do that, they always dissolve. The anger goes away once you understand what the foundation of it is. You said something really important there, I think, and that is to turn the page. So whether you were a smashing success last week or you completely fell off the wagon, being able to turn the page and do it again, that's going to be important. I think one of the things that's helped me with that has been the reflection template that I use inside of day one, which is just a couple of questions on how I did that day. And then the last thing I do

is I give myself a star rating. And I've gone back and forth on that star rating because it's completely arbitrary. But I find that being able to put in the number of stars for how I did that day and knowing that I'm going to have to do it again tomorrow forces me to turn the page. So even if I completely failed today, I got nothing done. I didn't show up when we were supposed to record focused, et cetera. I give myself one star. And then I know when I go to bed that tomorrow I get to try again. And forcing it into those smaller chunks, I feel like that really helps me to disconnect it from the goal and striving towards the production or the outcome and just saying, yeah, sometimes I'm not going to nail it 100% when it comes to the process, but I'm going to do my best. I'm

going to make the adjustments where needed, and I'm going to be willing to show up. That's really the thing for me is master the art of showing up. As long as you keep showing up, you keep having more chances to get it right. And I think the ninja move on that is what i was referring to earlier is getting that judgment period down to like an hour yeah yeah turn the page on an hourly basis not a weekly basis exactly you could get upset that you had a bad day and that might throw you off for the next three days that's not worth it yeah um we We heard from Kyle who wanted to talk about how many side projects is too many side projects. Hey, Mike and Dave. This is Kyle from Austin, Texas. Gotta say, big fan of the show.

Obviously, if not, I'm going to be leaving this voicemail. I'm asking you guys if you could help me out with a problem I've been facing most of my life. I am what you call a side project addict. I'm constantly excited by new projects and I constantly try to fill my schedule with new and new things to work on. I have two active main projects I'm working on and then a bunch more ideas I want to pursue, but I'm trying my best not to pursue them right now. We'll see how long that lasts. I just want to see what you guys think is like a good number of side projects to have and how much is too much. And most importantly, how to schedule your time and your priorities

whenever you have so many interests. Thank you. Thank you for the great show. Bye. So Mike, how many projects is two projects is it is it 5.3 7.2 12.3 you know how they have the the hackett number on connected for the number of devices per person we probably should have a focus number for the number of side projects if only you could give it a simple number it really depends you know it depends i. I think if you're worried that you have too many, then you definitely have too many. I think we could start there. I think if you're questioning whether you have too many side projects or not enough side projects, err on the side of too many. One of the things that I force myself to do during my personal retreats

is to say no to something. So a commitment or an obligation that I am currently doing, that I am going to reach out to the person who I've committed that I'm going to be doing this thing and saying, no, sorry, I can't do this anymore. And that's just my systematic way of fighting back against having so much going on that I'm not able to say yes to the things that are really important. And sometimes I don't know what the really important thing is going to be that's going to take that place. And so that's why I try to keep these things to a minimum because I think there's a lot of things that maybe are the right things to be doing, but we don't even notice them a lot of times because we're so busy with the things that we've said yes to that maybe we shouldn't have

said yes to. I think it's David Sivers who's like, if it's not a heck yes, then it's a no. yes, then it's a no. That's, for most people, got to be the default, I think. And really, it comes down to what are the things that are most important to you? And do you think that you are spending enough time on those things? So if you are married and have kids at home, then you have less time to say yes to other things if that is something that is truly important to you. That's kind of the season I find myself in. So that particular season, you're not gonna have a bunch of side projects. Just recognize, I think, as you're thinking through

what things you wanna say yes to, what you are saying no to. Sometimes we don't see the effect of saying yes to one more thing has on the things that we're currently involved with. But as soon as we have the margin to really sink our teeth into some of these side projects, then they can kind of flourish and they become maybe the main gig. I'm curious if you have anything you want to add to that in terms of your journey from being a full-time lawyer to having more time for the podcasting and the Max Barkey stuff and kind of what that transition looked like for you as you

readjusted these things and reclassified some things. Yeah, it's been a challenge, honestly. I thought that it would be easier than it was, and I still struggle with it. I still have that disease where when someone asks me to do something, I'm so happy that someone wants me to help them that I can't. My gut instinct is a yes, and I think there's a lot of people like that. This is a very common problem for people that listen to this show is being overcommitted. And that's something you have to be aware of in yourself. I've got little hacky things I do. I keep a text list of everything I turn down. That's one of the things like someone asked me to speak at their conference and I say, them, I turn it down. I write it down. I look at that list, and I kind of keep in my mind all the great opportunities I've turned away, and then I can weigh what I'm saying yes to against that. But I still overcommit, and I'm still trying to be aware. I have seasons where I'm better about this than others. I'm definitely going to be trying to do some recovery now that I've launched

this field guide. I'm going to be looking at some commitments to see if I can't back out of a few of them. So I think, you know, know thyself. If you're somebody who does say yes too much, then you really need to have a hair trigger on that. And looking forward, anytime you want to say yes, really consider it. Maybe make a rule that you won't say yes until you've slept on it. You know, it's, it's so easy to reply quickly to an email or to be in a conversation with someone and just say, yes, just say, look, I have a rule that I'm not allowed to say yes until I've slept on it. And then you'd be surprised after a day's thought, you know, you may not be as eager to sign up. Sure, yeah. I also think that maybe there's an element of not wanting to pass up an opportunity

that is at play here. And in my experience, there are specific instances where this is an opportunity and you need to jump on those, but they are not as frequent as maybe you would think they are. And so that's a big struggle, especially for me, but I'm sure other people deal with this too, where you don't want to say no to something because you're not

sure where it's going to lead. You have to get to the point where you are okay saying no to these things, trusting that if this is really something that you want to do in the future, that there will be another path forward for this at another time. And I think that is an important mindset shift to make is that it's not one event usually that gets you to those places that you want to be. It's the routines, it's the sustained intentionality, it's doing the little things. And that can be freeing too where you don't feel that pressure, well I gotta say yes to this thing because it's such an incredible opportunity, knowing that you know what, if this is going to happen, it's going to happen and there will be other opportunities that will happen down the road following this. Again, this isn't a blanket rule,

I don't think, where you could just say, you know, apply this to everything and just say no to everything the first time that it comes into your field of view. But I also think that it's probably safer to embrace that as a default view. That's something that I've tried to do personally myself, sometimes unsuccessfully. Yeah, no, it's a challenge for a lot of us. And not everybody is wired that way. But I think a lot of people that have trouble with this stuff are, and it's very easy to get yourself in too deep. With Kyle's specific question, I would look at my existing side projects, and I would kind of try to measure them. And it's kind of, it's hard to like say exactly how you measure them. I think there are different elements of it. It's like, how passionate are you about it? You know, what is the why? You

know, why are you doing that? What does, where does it lead you? What are the stakes? Is it something that could have a massive impact on the future of your life, negative or positive? And you kind of look at all those motivations and then rank them. Rank them from one to however many you have and then realize, I think, realistically, you've got time for a couple side projects. You really don't have time if they're that important to you and you want to do them right. You really don't have time if they're that important to you and you want to do them right. If you feel like the thing that's your number one project is getting short shrift in effort for you to do five projects, then just do the one project or just do the two. Get rid of numbers three through five.

But this is very wishy-washy stuff. There is not a mathematical answer to your question, and everybody's got to make it up for themselves. I also think that it's an effective experience. If you crash and burn on a few too many yeses, then you're going to be more inclined to be a little more brutal in not taking on so many in the future. And that's a process everybody needs to go through. There is no formula. Although I will say that something I've

found helpful in the past when I couldn't decide like, which of these things do I keep? Which of these things do I let go? Especially when you've got like two things you're trying to choose between them is to use this, I don't know what it's called, a matrix, I guess, this ICE method where you rate these things that you're trying to decide between on a scale of 1 to 10 in the categories of impact, confidence, and ease. So impact being how impactful do I think this thing is going to be in creating the version of the ideal future that I want to achieve. Confidence being how confident am I that I can actually complete this thing successfully, and ease is obviously how easy it's going to be. And sometimes you can be hemming and hawing

between two different things, and then you realize that the impact is the same, the confidence is the same, but this one thing over here is way easier than this other thing, and that kind of makes the decision for you. But this one is considerably less effort, so this is the one I'm going to tackle right now. Yeah. Related question from Andrew. My name is Andrew Pfeiffer. I'm a data scientist from Australia. My biggest challenge with focus is knowing what to focus on. There are so many good books, courses, podcasts, and articles to learn from. But like retired Navy SEAL Draco Willink says in his book, The Dichotomy of Leadership, anything good can be taken too far. So I'm in the process of ruthlessly unsubscribing from email newsletters,

RSS feeds and podcasts. I'm also planning to do a digital declutter, as recommended by Cal Newport in his book, Digital Minimalism. Of course, I still want to have a growth mindset, but I need to focus on growing deeply in a few areas and actually implementing what I learn. So Andrew's question is pretty much the ultimate question. how do you choose what to focus on and again there's no easy answer to this but the most helpful thing that I have found from this is a question that I got from reading the one thing by Gary Keller there's a question in that

book where he says what is the one thing that by doing it makes everything else easier or unnecessary? Sounds kind of cheesy, but when you start asking it, you will find that it really does help clarify what are the things that really are important. Usually, in my life anyways, they are tied to specific things that are causing me pain that I want to alleviate. So if there's a problem that you're trying to solve, that could be one indication. But there really isn't an easy way to say this is the single thing that should be dominating your focus right now. be dominating your focus right now. Yeah. One of the things that stood out for me with Andrew's question was a lot of the things he's considering dropping podcasts and various media, it was consumption stuff. He wants to consume less. But if I was Andrew, I would want to kind of turn that

on its head and say, what's the reason that I'm dropping these things? I mean, I think it's a good idea to consume less, but creation is where I get my good chemicals. So think about what it is you want to create, and then I think all that other stuff, that kind of informs what it is you consume as well. At least that's my experience. Completely agree. One of the things that I really

enjoy about the podcast medium specifically is that it's almost like when you are listening to a podcast that you have a seat at the table and you are joining in the conversation. And I remember when I first heard this approach from I think it was Jim Rohn he's not the only one who said you are the the sum of the five people that you spend the most time with but then he did ask the questions like who are the people that you're allowing to speak into your life what effect are they having on you? And is that okay? Now, you cannot necessarily choose your family. And this is kind of the thing that got me going in the whole productivity space is I live in a small town in Wisconsin. There's not a whole lot of tech nerds, productivity nerds where I live. So I started looking for other places that they hung

out and other voices that I could allow to speak into my life. And a lot of those happen to be via podcasts. So kind of piggybacking off of what you were saying, David, recognizing what are the things that are bringing value to me, but then the things that aren't bringing value, the things that are impacting my life in a way that I'm not okay with, those are the things that I want to eliminate. And recognizing that you can't keep up with everything, that you will have to say no to something. Then we also got a lot of feedback from listeners and emails, a lot of congratulations on hitting episode 100. My favorite was one from Paulo because he came from Brazil. He wins the gold star from emailing us

from the furthest away and said he's been listening to us since we were free agents. And he likes the idea of reflection and continuous improvement. And I'm glad we can play a small role, Paulo.

And thank you, everybody who wrote in and sent notes. We didn't get to use them all, but we really appreciate it and we love your engagement. And hopefully we help you out a little bit. That's the goal with the show. This episode of Focus is brought to you by Timing, the automatic time tracking app for Mac OS.

Use the link in the show notes to save 10% off your purchase. In the fast-moving world today, the next distraction is right around the corner, which makes it harder and harder to stay on track of your projects and determine how much you really worked. In other words, how focused are you? That's why you need an app to help you stay on top of your time. But manual time tracking is a broken concept. Who's going to remember to throw all those switches and levers? I know I don't. Manual time tracking just doesn't work, and that's why timing is different. Timing automates your time tracking to save you as much time as possible.

First, it automatically tracks how you spend time on your Mac. It's broken down by app, website, and document. You want to know how many hours you spent on that one word document? You'll find out with timing. You can end up with a lot of data to work through, so timing lets you use drag and drop to create rules and automatically categorize your time. It will also suggest to fill in gaps with your timeline so you never forget to track a meeting or things you did while you were away from your Mac. It can even automatically ask you what you did

whenever you return. And with the automatic sync feature, your track time will magically appear across all of your Macs. So even when you work on the go with your MacBook, you'll have a full picture on your iMac once you get home. With timing, you can track time on the go from your iPhone and the Zapier integration that lets you connect timing to services like FreshBooks and something for fans of shortcuts. Timing has shortcuts ready for you to use to make time tracking even easier.

We talked on this episode about the importance of time tracking and how it can give you a window into your focus. I really like the idea of time tracking, and probably once a month I'll track an entire week just to see how I'm doing and where I can get better. And when I do that, I use timing. It's because of those automatic time tracking that I use it. And when I do that, I use timing. It's because of those automatic time tracking that I use it.

It always gives me accurate data, and every other system I've tried never does because the failure point is me. I don't want to go through the switches. Timing does it automatically. Timing is so confident that you'll love their fuss-free approach, they offer a totally free trial. Download the 14-day trial today by going to timingapp.com slash focused, F-O-C-U-S-E-D, and save 10% when you purchase. With Timing, you can stop worrying about time and focus on doing your best work instead. Use the link in our show notes to get that discount, and we thank Timing for their support of this show and all of RelayFM. All right, Mike, so we've made it through 100 episodes. Is Focus

a one-trick pony? Should we wrap it up now? Are we done? I'd vote no, simply because I feel like I have a lot more to figure out, and I've gotten a lot of benefit out of doing this show. And I hope that everybody else who is on this journey with us kind of feels the same way, that there's joy in the journey coming from sharing it with other people, but also being able to bounce ideas back and forth, share what's working, share what's not working. You get some encouragement from other people to keep going. And then also you continue to refine the methods that work for you. And really that's the goal is that we want to do the best with what we've got. We want to continue to make the most of the time and the talent that we have to work with. Regardless of your belief system, we want to maximize the amount of good and you get to define what good means for

you. But that's everybody's aim and focus is the thing that allows you to do that. I totally agree. It's still a superhero task that we all need to work on. I like that you called it a journey, but you never used the term destination because I feel like you never actually get to the point where you're like, okay, I've got focused, figured out, I'm never going to have another problem. I've been watching that Bill Gates series on Netflix, and he was talking about polio, like at polio, once you cure it, then you don't have to spend any more money on it because it's no longer here. You know, focus isn't like that. You don't get there at some point and then you get it for free for the rest of your life. I think it's a battle.

You got to keep fighting it. I guess I should stop using the term battle. I don't want to do that, but it is a challenge and it's a constant challenge and you're going to have good days and bad days. And, And I do think that this podcast has helped me find it better. I know I've seen the emails and frankly, the listener numbers. There's a lot of people out there that are getting something out of it. We are absolutely going to continue to share this journey with you. And we are absolutely going to continue to bring in interesting guests that are on the same journey with us. So we're looking forward to bringing that all to you. Regarding the destination, you know, that's, that's something that I think is really important to realize. And maybe I didn't have it figured out when we first started this show was that

focus is not a project you can complete. There's no end to the race. And this is kind of interesting to me because literally today I was doing a webinar for the sweet setup and I shared the story of when I ran my first half marathon. And a brief version of this is that I hurt myself when I was training. I over-trained. My patella tendon slipped off. My kneecap was on the side of my leg. I pushed through, finished the race anyways. And I remember crossing the finish line and it was like almost a letdown because there was this void that needed to be filled. It was like, now what? I accomplished this goal. Now what do I do? So the perspective of focus never being something that you can check off of the list is, okay, now I have achieved full focus. That's not necessarily

a bad thing. What I've learned from running is that I had to adjust my perspective, but I learned to really enjoy the process of going for a run. It's no longer attached to an outcome. It's no longer attached to running a certain length or running a certain speed. It's just, I get to run. I get to lace up my sneakers and go, and that feels really good. And I would say that when it comes to the journey with focus, I've kind of experienced the same sort of thing. That just the fact that I am continuing to pursue focus, that does something inside of me that makes me want to keep going. Yeah, I actually get kind of a kick being self-observant of the times the rebellious

organ between my ears works against me on focus, and I can laugh at myself now, but then I also need to get back on the horse. I'm doing something, Mike, because I finished this field guide. I've decided I'm finally going to take a sabbatical after threatening to do so. I can't go to a cabin in the woods. My family's all home. We're still doing with quarantine. So it's going to be a very interesting sabbatical. I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to do it. I'm probably going to talk to you about it offline. At some point, we'll talk about it on the show. But I thought it'd be fun to share with the audience that yes,

the first week of June, don't expect to see a lot from me. All right. We'll just expect a full report on the sabbatical when you get back. Yeah. I don't know how long it's going to be. I don't know what form it's going to take, but it is going to happen. I'm committing publicly. Maybe that's why I'm saying it here, so now I have to do it. All right.

We'll hold you to it. All right. Well, episode 100 came out great. Hopefully we've got another 100 in us and or even more i hope you're enjoying it let us know what you think um we've got a feedback email at the website you also can check in with us at the forums go to talk.macpowerusers.com there's a whole forum there for focused thank you to our sponsors today pingdom express vpn and timing and we'll see you in a few weeks