Halford & Brough in the Morning - Why Can't The Canucks Be More Like The Panthers

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

In hour one, Mike & Jason look back at the previous day in sports, they talk last night's dominant win by the Panthers over Carolina (3:00), they compare the Canucks' core group of players to that of Florida's and note how Vancouver's group isn't tough enough (24:18), plus the boys look ahead to tonight's WCF matchup as the Oilers look to get back in the win column versus the Stars (30:00). This podcast is produced by Andy Cole and Greg Balloch. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- And they score! And it's Sam Bennett crashing the net! And the Panthers take a 4-0 lead! Through the left side a base hit! And Nathan Lucas walks it off! Wow, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I. Good morning Vancouver, 6.01 on a Friday. Happy Friday everybody, sweet, sweet Friday. It is Halford, it is Brough, it is Sportsnet 650 and we are coming to you live from the Kintec studios and beautiful Fairview slopes in Vancouver. Jason, good morning. Good morning. Adog, good morning to you. Good morning. Gladly good morning to you as well. Hello, hello. Halford and Brough for the morning is brought to you by Sands and Associates, BC's first and trusted choice for debt help with over 3,000 five-star reviews. Visit them online at sands-trustee.com.

For more, we are in hour one of the program. Hour one is brought to you by North Star Metal Recycling. Vancouver's premier metal recycler pays the highest prices on scrap metal. North Star Metal Recycling, they recycle, you get paid. Visit them at 1170 Powell Street in Vancouver. We are coming to you live from the Kintec Studio. Kintec Footwear and Orthotics working together with you in step. Got a lot to get into on a Friday, big Friday show here on the Haliford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650. First hour of today's show,

a hundred percent uninterrupted Halbro. Guest list doesn't begin until seven o'clock. AJ is going to join us at seven. A reminder, it's a $100 gift card to AJ's today because it's ask us anything Friday. Best AUA gets the gift card Dunbar Lumbertex line is 650 650. Jason Brough might actually win the gift card because he put together several very, very thought provoking, ask us anything that we're going to do throughout the show today. But if you want to win, hashtag it AUA, Dunbar Lumbertex line is 650 650.

Ask us anything, you could win some free pizza. 705 after AJ Thomas Drance is going to join the program. Canucks talk right here on Sportsnet 650, the athletic Vancouver. Early Canucks talk on a Friday. They signed a new player yesterday. Their American league team is killing it in the playoffs. All kinds of stuff to discuss with Drance at seven Oh five this morning. Seven 30 the Moj is going to join us. The BC lions are back in Kamloops after playing an exhibition game against

Calgary and Langford. They're going all over the province of British Columbia. Lions won't play another game until the 30th of the week today against the Elks. We can talk to Moj about that and the Canucks that's at 730 8 o'clock it's Rick Dollywall now Jason is usually the Dollywall handler But there was a technological glitch yesterday, so we actually all got dollies notes We're gonna talk about the Canucks pro and scouting meetings this week potential assistant coaches for Adam foot including a guy to keep an eye on, a former NHL head coach, and a couple of prized UFAs that Dolly Walls say aren't,

aren't coming to Vancouver when free agency opens on July 1st. Great reporting there. Pretty good. These guys are not coming. Following players will not be back. They were absolutely adamant they did not want to come here. So working in reverse on the guest list,

eight o'clock it's Dolly Wall, 730 it's Mark Janovich, 705 it's on the guest list, 8 o'clock it's Dolly Wall, 730 it's Mark Janovich, 705 it's Strants, and 7 o'clock it's AJ. It is Ask Us Anything Friday. We got a lot to get into on the show. So without further ado, laddie, let's tell everybody what happened. Hey, did you guys see the game last night? No.

No. What happened? I missed all the action because I was... We know how busy your life can be. What happened? You missed that? You can be. What happened? You missed that? What happened?

What happened is brought to you by the BC Construction Safety Alliance, making safety simpler by giving construction companies the best in tools, resources and safety training. Visit them online at bccsa.ca. We do have a lot to get into. It was a busy day yesterday news wise, across the world of sprouts in the National Hockey League, but we will begin in Carolina where for the second consecutive game in the Eastern Conference final the Florida Panthers put a booting Yes a booting on the Carolina Hurricanes Sam Bennett and Carter Hagee three points each Sergey Bobrovsky a cool 17 saves for the shutout. The Florida Panthers beat the Carolina Hurricanes, five nothing in game two of the Eastern

Conference final at my favorite center, the Lenovo Center on Thursday. Yeah. So, um, you know, I think a lot of the focus is going to be on the Carolina Hurricanes because they've now lost 14 straight games in the conference finals. That's bad.

So there are two more losses away if they lose these next two in Florida, which is more than possible from getting swept in four straight conference finals, which is crazy. It's actually impressive. It's actually, yeah, it's a, it's one of those impressive stats where you're like, wow, hard to do that hard to be good enough to get to the conference final. It's true. Four times in the last little while and get swept in them.

Not win a single game. Not win a single game. But I do want to talk a little bit first about the team that's doing it to them right now and the team that did it to them last year, and that is the Florida Panthers, they have found their game, man. And, you know, you think about their last four games, let's say five games, actually. Sure.

They had kind of one little slip up at home where they lost to the Toronto Maple Leafs in game six, but game five in Toronto, they pumped them. Game seven in Toronto, they pumped them. Game seven in Toronto, they pumped them. Uh, their last, let's just say their last four road games have been very, very impressive. About as dominant as you can get on the road. And I just think that this team is, um. They're built for this, Jason.

They are built for this. This team is, they're everything. They've got everything that you need. And there's an article on Sportsnet.ca written by Eric Engels who's covering the series and some wise words in there from who else but Brad Marchand. And these guys are just so confident in the fact that they are prepared. They're prepared for every game and they know what they've got. They believe in their coach. They believe in each other. They believe in their goaltender. They believe in their

system. They've got size and strength. They've got skill. They've got depth. They've got everything. There are a bunch of players on Florida who like a guy like, I don't know, Anton Lindell, Lindell, just to pick one out, right? Like he's a really good player, but he's not a star in Canada or he's not a star in, frankly, in the United States or even Florida, but he's just, he's just a really good player that doesn't get talked about much because there's so many other good players on the Panthers and also it's the Florida Panthers. Like that team they've put together is really good.

And assuming they're going to beat Carolina and I don't know how Carolina is going to win four or five out of the Florida Panthers. Prove me wrong, Carolina Hurricanes, prove me wrong. But whoever gets this team, Dallas. Prove me wrong, kids. Yep. Prove me wrong. Dallas or Edmonton.

And Edmonton knows all about Florida. You know, like they're just, they've just done a lot of things right. And I get it. They got some advantages. No pressure in Florida. So all the, all the players, they don't want that. They got to go there. The weather's nice. There's of course the, the state income tax issue,

which might be addressed by the NHL. I don't know how they're going to address that, but they might try and address it. Um, but I think you can also tip your cap to the people that are putting together the Florida Panthers, because, uh, I don't know if you guys heard this before, but the Florida Panthers have not always been good.

So the advantages of playing in Florida have not always been taken advantage of. You know, they've drafted well. They've traded well, whether they're trading for guys that everyone knows is good and that's Matthew Kachak, or players that you know they've acquired that they've developed into good players like a guy like

Gustav Forsling that's now one of the best shut down defensemen in the NHL. I can't remember who drafted him but you know regardless he bounced around and then he ends up in Florida and there's some good players. Sam Bennett right considered a draft bust in Cal, goes to Florida and now everyone's wondering how much money he's going to make in his next unrestricted free agent deal. You know, if you're an NHL team and you're not looking to Florida and going like, is there anything we can learn from them without just being like dismissive about it, it's like, well, we don't have like the weather and we don't have the

state income tax, like go beyond that. Yeah. And, and, and try and figure out what that team has done. Um, the one thing that stands out for me, by the way, and, uh, call me a dinosaur. Big boys, tough boys, they win in the playoffs and the physical play that the Florida Panthers bring, uh, when they are truly dialed in, there are not many teams in the NHL that can match that. Yeah, last night was a, top of everything else was a pretty physical game. There was a, actually you know what? Carolina did try and dabble in that,

in that they got very engaged physically. And in the case of Svetchenkoff and the penalty that he took on Kachak, they completely backfired. Aho took a run at Reinhardt and knocked him out of the game. Kind of a dirty hit also. But, um, the thing with Florida is that they are more than happy to trade those blows with you because I think that they know in the end, like you said, they're the big boys, they're the tough boys.

It's going to be a battle that they're going to win. There was a huge hit on Jarvis in that game that also knocked Jarvis out of the game. And this is kind of what Florida is built for. We said it earlier. Florida is built for this type of hockey and Florida is built to win in the playoffs. A few of the other things that Florida has done that are super impressive. One, it's made it a destination in the national hockey league. You'll remember when we were talking the other day,

I forget who our guest was at the time, but they were talking about the Brad Marshawn trade out of Boston. They wanted to make it abundantly clear that part of the reason that Boston was hamstrung was Brad Marshawn wanted to go to one team and one team only they did wait for. And it was Florida. They're the new Anaheim, actually. Do you remember when Anaheim was that?

Yep. Because Kessler was the same way. Yep. You know, those players wanted to go there because they were a good team, nice climate, good organization, good ownership. And they win. And they win.

Yeah. So there's that. The other thing that I find really interesting about the Florida Panthers is that in addition to rolling through these playoffs and putting up tremendous performances on a, you know, by nightly basis, they've also broken the spirits and mentality of one and now possibly two

entire NHL franchises. We saw what they left in the wake in Toronto. And by the way, we will get into Brendan Shanahan being removed as president of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Not long after they were dispatched by the Florida Panthers in the playoffs. The Florida Panthers may have broken the minds, the body and the spirit of the Carolina Hurricanes. I want to play some audio here from Rod Brindemore, the head coach of the Carolina Hurricanes after the game yesterday.

And the tone, I can only describe it as flummoxed. It's not disappointed and it's not angry. And it's not sad. It's flummoxed. It's like he doesn't know exactly how to solve this. And he doesn't know what his players are doing. He doesn't recognize. Befuddled?

A little bit of befuddlement for Rod. A little bit of befuddlement. Yeah. And he doesn't recognize his team right now. That's a very, very problematic thing for a head coach midway through an Eastern Conference final. I don't even know who you are anymore. See, that was an example of what

Post-game speech to that shadowing what we're gonna play right now Here's Rod Brindemore after a five nothing loss to Florida in game two of the Eastern Conference final We gotta just figure out how to win a period I think that's the I think we came out with the right intentions But it was trying to do too much then then more not doing the things that we do As a team that normally helps us. We were just, I didn't know what I was watching in the first period and that didn't go well. So, you know, year, I always said the other day, the margin here is tight. Like we're not going to beat this team if we're not on the same page and tonight for whatever reason.

I think, like I said, the intentions were good. Everyone's trying to, okay, I'm going to do this, but that's not how we do it. And it just backfired. I don't know what he really cares about Carolina. Like they're kind of a curiosity in a lot of people's minds. They're like, ah, they're a good team and they get to this point

and then they lose all their games when they get here. But to watch a team have a crisis of confidence to this degree. And especially a team that was known to play to its identity. I mean, for me, it's in game one, in game one, I think they came out way too amped up. You can be too amped up. You can get out of your game.

They're undisciplined. Did you see Brendan Moore on the bench? Like I think he, I think he should look in the mirror and be like, you look psycho right now. Calm down, Rod. Calm down, seriously. Did you see him in the first period where like he was, I know he's an intense dude.

Yep. But that was like, hey Rod, try blinking. I just one time, one time try blinking. I saw it and I think that was in part fueled by the ghosts of Eastern Conference final.. And I think that was in part fueled by the ghosts of Eastern Conference final. Maybe. I think that was it.

And the other one is last night, you know, don't give up a goal one minute and 17 seconds into the game because it takes all the air out of an arena that can get pretty, uh, pretty loud and pretty boisterous and also, um, you know, Carolina is built to play with the lead. They don't know how to play from behind. They can't play from behind.

Well, it's why they go after these guys, these quote unquote game breakers, whatever you want to call it. Gensel, Rantanen. And I guess we might as well ask the question, one of the things I want to ask, and a few people have been texting in, is what happens if they get swept? That's a great question question or what happens if they lose in five or even six, right? Like like what what what no not seven because then at least you'd have a chance to win

Do you know what I mean? Like what happens if this is this series and it's already looking that way is just hopeless Okay, it's a great question because it opens up a debate which we can probably tie back in to while the Vancouver Connectucks and any other team so The Coles notes version on what they do and Taylor Hall actually opened up the book a little bit There's a great piece by Wyszynski up on ESPN talking about not just the loss yesterday But I don't know if you saw it or not at the end of the first period They got booed off the ice by the Carolina Hurricanes faithful a fan base that is usually Really positive and really optimistic even their darkest moments are like come on hockey team. Let's try and win

Let's do a storm surge. That's Carolina in a nutshell, right? Yeah, they booed them off the ice in the first period the midway through the second period I heard I heard Marner started crying again. It's like is that for me? It was not it might be when they sign you in free agency, but until then, no. In the second period, the Carolina fans with seven shots on the scoreboard up hanging above the Lenovo center, seven shots on Goldman, we do the second period started chanting in unison, shoot the puck, shoot the puck, which is a crazy thing for a team whose entire offense is predicated on putting pucks on net.

I tweeted out halfway through the game. I was like, seven shots, that doesn't seem like many. And then all my critics are like, that's talking hockey, baby. I thought you'd love that. I was like, all right, took my guess. So we're getting closer and closer to the talk and part of the conversation, which is good.

So Taylor Hall in the aftermath opened up the book ever so slightly about exactly what the Canes want to do. What they want to do is they don't shoot to score. They shoot and shots on that predicate everything else that they want to do. The exact quote was, we generate offense by shooting pucks and getting them back. Then we draw a penalty or we get a rebound.

We generate momentum by doing that. Now, you can argue with that philosophy and that style and that approach, however you want. The important part is that they have a very clear identity. They know exactly what they wanna do. And the most important thing and the divisive thing right now is that they don't deviate from it.

They don't go into a series saying like what do we need to do to unlock this mystery or figure out this mystery unlock this box like figure out the riddle. They say we do Carolina Hurricanes hockey we do it and then if it's not working what do we do we We do it even harder. And then last night they didn't do it. They, Bryn Mawr was talking about, you know, we were passing up shooting opportunities. They were trying to make fancy plays. They were trying to pass the puck into that. They were trying to get out of their element and it backfired spectacularly to the point where the

head coach went to the podium and said, I didn't know what we were doing in the first period. That's, that's crazy that that happened. It's actually crazy that Carolina of all teams just couldn't get shots. Just they didn't know how to unlock it. But this is a team that will shoot anything. Like if we want to bring Tocket into the conversation,

you know, I don't think Tocket believed in shooting everything. Right. But I'm not talking about the philosophy. No, no, no. What I'm saying is that when the Canucks were struggling to get shots, remember in the playoffs, like.

Or all of last season. Yeah. Or any game pretty much. Take your pick. A lot of the times the pushback from the coaching staff is like, we want to create quality shots. We're not just going to shoot everything.

I don't think that's a great way to play hockey, if you shoot just random stuff and that's a great way to give the puck over basically. Sure. Okay? Sure. In a nutshell, the Hurricanes don't feel that way. They will shoot anything because that's their whole

game plan like you just laid out. But the fact that they couldn't get the shots, and this is a team that will shoot anything. Right. Says a lot about how much they're struggling, but also how good a job that Florida does smothering teams. So what happened yesterday was they went away from their usual game plan. In game one, they did exactly what you laid out, shot from anywhere. They had 33 shots on Bobrovsky and they lost because it was a lot of stuff from the perimeter

and they weren't getting to the guts of the ice. Like Rick Tauke and our new best friend, Craig Ludwig was talking about the other day when he was on the show, right? Getting into those hard areas. They don't even need to be in the guts of the ice. Yeah, but it's just not what they do. They shoot from the perimeter.

They try and pick up rebounds and they try and draw penalties and they're not getting any of that going. So yesterday they totally change it up. They start trying to make plays that they're not accustomed to making and it goes spectacularly wrong. This is where it gets interesting. Everybody, because I remember distinctly during the year and I, you know, believe it or not, the water carrying media for Rick talking, we did have some complaints and one of mine was as a head coach,

I'm not sure it's the greatest look and I'm not sure it's the greatest look and I'm not sure it's a feasible defense for your game plan where when it doesn't work, your answer is, well, we gotta execute better. Or when we're shooting and they're getting blocked or they're missing the net, the answer is gotta get them unblocked and gotta hit the net.

Like I get the theory behind it, but sometimes- Move your feet, create those shooting lanes. You know, sometimes we tell them to do it, but they don't. Sometimes there does need to be tactical adjustments. Like I remember listening to guys that played for the Vegas Golden Knights and played for Bruce Cassidy. And they're like, Cassidy is unbelievable at coming up with a new game plan on short notice. Yeah. How did it go against the Oilers? Well, it didn't go great against the Oilers. But Cassidy's had a lot of success as a head coach and sometimes you can't unlock.

Like let's make that abundantly clear. But in the case of Bryndamore, would you argue right now that the biggest critique is gonna be your style works until a certain point and then it doesn't work. Yeah. And then what? Because right now it's very easy to draw a line to say where his style works to.

It's the Eastern Conference Final. Yeah. And then not only has he had little success in the Eastern Conference Final, he's never won a game. That's a problem. Now you could say, you know what, certain things have transpired against him and it's the players that go out there and execute.

And I say, yeah, that's totally valid. But a head coach's job is partly to be a problem solver, not a guy that identifies the problem and then throws his hands up in the air and says, but the way that we play is the way that we play. Okay. So, uh, the question is, what do you think the Carolina hurricanes are going to do if they get

swept? They're not dead yet, do if they get swept? They're not dead yet, but if they get swept or if they go out meekly, gentlemen sweep. Text into the Dunbar Lumber text line, 650-650 Metro Vancouver's Trust to Choice for Contractors and Rent a Warrior for over 50 years. Visit them at one of their three locations to serve you or online at dunbarlumber.com. We've got the whole first hour of just Halford and Brough and you, the listeners texting in to the Dunbar Lumber text line.

So let's introduce the other, I would say big story in hockey yesterday. And that is Brendan Shanahan. The Shannon plan failed because Brendan Shanahan is no longer leading the Toronto Maple Leafs. He'll probably maybe soon be leading the Islanders. Sounds like it. Yeah.

Tough losing your job, but I think he Shannon handled it with class. I gotta say you guys. 622, never too early for a laddie dad joke. A daddy joke, if you will. So 11 years, nine playoff appearances. No trips beyond the second round of the playoffs. Brendan Shanahan out as the president of the Toronto Maple Leafs. MLSB boss, Keith Pelly announced it yesterday.

So the quote was lengthy and it thanked Shanahan for his decade plus in charge. And in a lot of ways, Shanahan does deserve a ton of credit because he inherited a team that was kind of in a tailspin and did bring them a lot of regular season success. Anyway, the money quote from Keith Pelley was this. Our responsibility and driving motivation is to add a new chapter to the Maple Leafs championship history.

And it was determined that a new voice was required to take the team to the next level in the years ahead. So a lot of people read that, especially the, I bold faced this part. It was determined that a new voice was required and thought, okay, that means they're gonna bring in a new voice. But lo and behold, according to Chris Johnson

of the Athletic, it doesn't sound like it's gonna go that way. Johnson reported that it was determined that initial indications are no immediate replacement for Brendan Shanahan and that Brad Tree Living will either be granted more power and authority as the general manager or Keith Pelley steps in like he kind of has with some of the MLSC's other properties, specifically Toronto FC and the Toronto Argonauts, where he's now the guy that the general manager reports to and

he's more hands on with the operation. And a lot of that's just kind of inside baseball stuff in Toronto and corporate stuff. Um, in hindsight, what was the biggest mistake that Brendan Shanahan made? Uh, way too loyal to the Cora 4. Way too many bites at the Apple given by the prez, that would be my thought.

Yeah. And I think it goes beyond that. I think it was being overly loyal to four forwards who don't scream playoff prototypes. Uh, really good players. And I think you can win with these guys, but maybe not four of them together. Well, definitely not four of them together.

It was proven. Um, so this is going to get this, this is a bit of a theme by the way that I've been working on because some of it has to do with the Canucks. Actually, everything I talk about has to do with the Canucks. Hockey in the postseason is still a game for tough, tenacious, bordering on vicious or psychopath players.

Sure. And if you don't have a few of them in your core, it's hard to win. And let me repeat that, in your core. Can't be peripheral guys. Okay. They cannot just be added to the margin. There's a reason why guys like Dougie Gilmore

and Wendell Clark got them the furthest the Leafs have gone in the modern era. And they didn't even get up to the Stanley Cup final, but they at least got them to a couple of conference finals. Hockey has changed since that time, but it hasn't changed as much as some people think. No. And I feel like we're going back a little bit.

You know, everyone says it's a copycat league and look at what the Florida Panthers are doing with a top six that yes has skill. You obviously need skill. I'm not advocating a team put together four lines of, you know, just bottom six grinders and big tough dudes who can't skate. I'm not advocating that. And I realize it's hard to find these guys that

are big and tough than can play. But if you don't find them, it's hard to win. And even a team like the Tampa Bay Lightning had to at least change their DNA a little bit. Like, I don't know if you look at a team like Tampa Bay, they won two cups, they've had a lot of success and be like, wow, that's like a that's like a monster big in all their core players are so tough. Like, but I do think they're tenacious.

You know, like I do think they're tenacious. I do think they play a certain style that obviously can work in the playoffs, although it hasn't worked recently. Most teams, they have a guy or two guys that you're like, man, he's a nasty piece of business. And he's, again, it's like Sam Bennett, right? Kachak. If we're just talking about, if we're just, you

know, and even people are like, well, what about Pittsburgh is like, Sid is one of the toughest guys you'll meet. He may not like, he doesn't fight or he's not, he's not dirty, but like physically he is, he's a power forward. Yes. That's what he is.

He's just he is. He's just incredibly skilled. You gotta find those guys. And I look at the Canucks right now and I don't see a single one of them in their core. So I know that's a problem. I know we're up against it for time, but I do wanna just add,

cause I've mentioned this before, but I'll reiterate it. The fact that it was Brendan Shanahan with his player profile and his history as an NHL or that put this together is kind of stunning. And by kind, I mean, completely stunning because it go back when you get a chance, dear listeners and listen to watch the 60 that they did on the Red Wings, Colorado Avalanche rivalries of the 90s, in which Brandon Shanahan played a huge, important and instrumental figure in. There's sit down interviews with Shanahan where he hadn't won anything prior

to going to Detroit. And he talked about what it took to win a Stanley Cup. And he said he didn't really understand what it took until he got to Detroit and Detroit got him. And they had to go through the war, borderline war with Colorado, where it wasn't about skill Detroit got him and they had to go through the war, borderline war with Colorado where it wasn't about skill and scoring 50, 60 goals in the regular season. It was about being the tougher and nastier

and more physical team in the post season. And Shanahan was brought aboard because he had those attributes and they needed it to get over the hump to beat Colorado and to win those cups in Detroit. Let's continue this on the other side, but do you think he got too influenced by, I'm not anti-analytics, but do you think he got too influenced by that? Possibly. We can't discuss it on the other side. Before we go to break. By the way, Kyle Dubas' latest team is doing well yeah they are well they were

they were lost lost to Denmark yesterday before we're gonna break I need to tell you about Jan pro from the boardroom to the break room and everywhere in between Jan pro keeps workplaces tidy clean and disinfected for a free quote visit them online at Jan pro dot CA you're listening to the Halford and Brough show on Sportsnet 650 it's Canucks Central with Dan Riccio and Satyar Shah, your destination for everything Canucks. Exclusive interviews, inside info, and even the post-game show.

Listen 4 to 6 p.m. weekdays and on demand through your favorite podcast app. 6.35 on a Friday. It's Fiesta Friday. It's a sweet, sweet Friday here on the Haliford & Brough show on Sportsnet 650. Haliford & Brev of the morning is brought to you by Sands & Associates. Learn how a consumer proposal reduces your debt by up to 80% with no more interest. Visit them online at sans-trustee.com. The Dunbar Lumber Text Line is grasping at straws because we were talking about how you need to have these big, tough players in your top six or in your core as part of your core right at least one of them yeah one or two of them yep and someone suggested well they

traded pod calls into the oilers and like not a core piece it was Sean yeah I'll say that not a core piece I get it I get what you're saying I don't well they're trying like he I know he's I what he's saying at all. Well, they're trying. Like, I know he's doing well with the Oilers. He is not part of the Corps. Sean said, why couldn't he have been a third line Corps piece? I'm like, Sean, because those don't exist. It's not a thing.

Third line means you're not part of the Corps. You can't be both. You can be one or you can be the other. If someone on your third line is part of your Corps, that is a problem. Right, yeah. Yeah. You're like the Minnesota Wilds of a other. If someone on your third line is part of your core, that is a problem. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

You're like the Minnesota Wild of a few years ago where all their core players were third liners and a few other people talking about, uh, Dakota Joshua being that guy is like, no, he's a bottom six guy and you need valuable players in the bottom six. But I am talking about the core of your team. Like if you want to go back to the 2011 team, Kessler was that guy.

You know, he was, he know? He was the guy that was like, God, this guy's a piece of work. Yeah, okay, let's not get too far down the minutia hole here. I mean, we're arguing semantics, like what constitutes a core piece. I think everyone, at least I understand what you're getting at. It's got to be... It's got to what you're getting at. It's gotta be. It's just gonna get bigger and nastier. It's gotta be a frontline player that's part of your DNA, part of your, the guy that you're gonna win with, right?

Hopefully two. Yeah, maybe even three. Part of the conversation that we were having was, and for those that missed it yesterday, Brendan Shanahan and the Shanna Plan are out in Toronto after 11 years on the job. He is no longer the president of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It sounded as though there might be a replacement

on the way, but it doesn't sound as though one will be coming anytime soon. So it leaves people to sort of sift through the wreckage of the Shanna plan and really dissect it and ask the questions like, where did it go wrong? Why is he out? Why didn't the Shanna plan work? And we started this conversation prior to going on a break

and I'll quickly reiterate. The most compelling part of all of this is that the Shanna plan, and it's got his name cooked right into it, was drawn up and designed by a guy who seemingly understood what it took to win in the post season. And all of the attributes, the Jurassic attributes that we talk about, big, tough, nasty, mean, willing to engage in those physical battles.

And the important part, not relenting until you win that physical battle. And I said, go back and watch any documentary that's out there about the avalanche Red Wings rivalry from the late 90s, early 2000s. Watch Brandon Shanahan and listen to Brandon Shanahan talk about what it meant for him as a player because he hadn't won a Stanley Cup before he got to Detroit and ask and listen to what the Red Wings have to say about getting Shanahan in the door. Like, yeah, he's a hall of fame talent. He's a could score 50 goals in the NHL, but he also had a meanness and a toughness and a desire to win physical

battles because he knew that winning the physical battle in the postseason was winning in the postseason. And then he hitched his wagon to Mitch Marner, Austin Matthews, John Tavares and William Nylander. Four guys who, for as talented as they are, and let's make no mistake about this, those four are magnificently talented hockey players. They are upper echelon elite level talents.

There's no question, there's no questioning that whatsoever. But collectively, they never had enough to win the battles in the post season. And the crazy part of all of it is that they got every different type of challenge thrown at them over the 11 years that Shanahan was there in the postseason. I've mentioned it a couple times. There were high end battles, like going up against Florida,

who's an absolute wagon right now. But there was also Eunice Corpusalo and the Columbus Blue Jackets and Philip Deneau. Like every time that they came up against a stout and resolute opponent in the playoffs, they weren't able to battle through and Shannon hitched his wagon to those guys for over a decade. Do you think part of the problem too is that

they never had a number one defenseman, a true number one, like with all due respect to Morgan Riley, who seems like a really good guy as a local kid. No, cause I saw teams, I saw Pittsburgh win with a makeshift when. After the first time. Chris LeTang played really well. Not the year, but the first year

that LeFto LeTang didn't play. He wasn't hurt, he had a stroke, but. Yeah. But anyway, point, like I've seen teams do it. I remember- How many? Well, actually the Jim Rutherford team's oddly enough. Two. Yeah.

That's honestly- So I've seen more teams win with a patchwork defense than a team that won with no physicality in its core. Yeah. You know? I think it's both though. I can be, I think it can be both. I think the Leafs, I mean, it's funny, we, we would talk all the time in Vancouver about

before Quinn Hughes is like, we've had some good defensemen, but never a true Norris trophy. Like the Leafs in the modern era are kind of in the same boat. Sure, and that was always my argument against signing Tavares to the contract that they did. It's great. Yeah, but that doesn't mean they'd be able to find

a number one defenseman. Sometimes you just. 10 million bucks makes it a lot easier to find one. Your allocation of money. Yeah, yeah, I guess. I guess, I guess. But anyway, any questions or comments on the Leafs or the Carolina Hurricanes? Text them into the Dunbar Lumber text line at 650-650. What else do

you want to get into? Well, you mentioned this prior to going to breaks. And you actually talked about the World Hockey Championships yesterday, which is quite hilarious because we had no idea, nor did the rest of the hockey world that before talking about our interest level in the World Hockey Championships, one of the biggest upsets in the history of the tournament took place. Plucky tournament, go, Denmark as Denmark defeated Canada to one in the quarterfinals yesterday.

And a result that I did not see coming, nor did the rest of the hockey world. As a matter of fact, Denmark, I didn't even realize this because I paid so little attention to the tournament. They had to be Germany in a shootout on the last day of the preliminary round just to get into this corner throttle game against Canada. So it's not like this, this Danish team, this Denmarkish team had gone all the way through the tournament playing great hockey.

They kind of scratched and clawed their way just to get into this matchup, but they did get Nick Ehlers, who basically flew right from Winnipeg after lockout clean out day, to play for Denmark. And Shuffledale was like, wait, I want to talk to you! And he's like, I can't, I have to go play for Denmark.

Anyway, he scored again, and it was a huge upset. We've got the, now credit to TSN, this audio comes from them. This is the final 10 seconds of one of the biggest upsets in international hockey history. Denmark 2-1 over Canada. Here's what the final 10 seconds sounded like. 15 seconds to go.

McKinnon driving to the corner. Looking for Montour, shot, caught. Eight seconds, Montour fires another one. Now McKinnon in tight, five seconds. And the Deans have upset Canada. They beat them two to one. So that's courtesy TSN. I was happy for them when I saw that.

Listen to that crowd. Sure, sure. Look how happy they are. They were hosts, they were co-hosting the tournament. That's terrific. What a terrific story. Yeah. So yesterday we were talking about the worlds.

Um, we were talking about how a lot of the players that go over there, they're not like, I'm playing for Canada, nothing else matters. You know, they will throw out the courtesy line of, you know, anytime you put the maple leaf on. But a lot of the time you go over there and you bring your family with you.

Sure. It's in Europe, so you're like, wow, we can go see some tourist sites. I don't know. It's a fun time, right? It's a fun time and you're like, wow, we can go see some tourist sites. I don't know. Yeah. It's a fun time, right? It's a fun time and you're not preparing like you would for say the Olympics or even the NHL playoffs.

You're there to represent your country for sure. And you're there to do your best, but it's not the same. And it is remarkable for, it is still remarkable that that happened. Sure. Because like Denmark would be super prepared for it.

Like they'd be like, this is it. Uh, we don't have many players in the NHL. Ehlers is coming over. We're hosting this thing. This is our Olympics. It's not a trip to Denmark for Denmark, right? Yeah. They're like, we've been here, this place, we've

seen all the touristy stuff. It's not that great. Once you've seen right? Yeah. They're there. We've been here, this place, we've seen all the touristy stuff. It's not that great. Once you've seen it a few times, it's Denmark, everything's quite flat, you know, whatever. And yeah, they're more of like a white caps country now. It's true. Yeah.

And anyway, I thought it was awesome. I don't, I don't really get upset when that sort of stuff happens because the stakes for me are non-existent. That's why, but that's why I didn't really get upset when that sort of stuff happens because the stakes for me are non-existent. But that's why I didn't care about this tournament yesterday. People got upset. People were clapping back. They're like, Halifred, how can you say that? Put it this way. If Jason Breff can come in here the day after a Canada loss and say that he feels good for Denmark, I think that speaks to the stakes involved in this tournament. It's a nice time and it's fun. for Denmark, I think that speaks to the stakes involved in this tournament.

Like it's a nice time and it's fun. And this is the kind of tournament that's great for the Denmarks and the Latvias and the smaller European countries who really take this thing seriously. But when you go into it, it's second fiddle to the Stanley Cup playoffs. The guys that are there, if you were to ask them,

and some might not even say it privately, they might say it publicly, would you rather be playing in the Stanley Cup Playoffs right now at the World Hockey Championships taking on Denmark? They're all gonna say they would rather be in the playoffs. This isn't to diminish Denmark's accomplishments yesterday. Moments like this are very important

because they do, you need these upsets to make international competition more authentic and more genuine because in any good tournament, you need to have just the idea alive that David can beat Goliath, right? And we go back to the Olympics, you know, very famous when Belarus beat Sweden or when Latvia threw a major scare into Canada,

when the NHL eventually gets back to a full blooded, best on best international calendar and competition, you're gonna need to have these possibilities hanging out there. The thing with the four nations, and the four nations was great, but no result in that tournament really would have been considered an upset.

Like maybe if, yeah. I mean, Finland was loaded with NHL players. We've seen Finland pull ups. That's right. They were the fourth of four, probably. Oh, I don't know. I don't even remember how the final standings ended up. But you need a minnow to be able to pull something off like this in a meaningful competition. So in that aspect is great.

Like, I think it's a little wonders for Denmarkish, also known as Danish hockey, but I don't think in the context of like, does this really matter? Or the stakes involved. Doesn't matter for Canada. No. Matters for Denmark. So that's cool. I'm happy for them.

Uh, Austin and Langley with an Ask Us Anything. Would you trade Hronik for a legit 2C younger guy with term, not a mid guy. Well, hell yeah. The Canucks have now won but two prize young defensemen on the horizon because Victor Mancini is blowing up in these Calder Cup playoffs. He's been fantastic.

And they got Will Anderson. This is something we talked about, what, two weeks ago? I need to give you credit on this because you brought it up first. And I remember thinking. It's got some momentum now, doesn't it? I remember thinking about it at the time and I'm like, ah, I get where you're going with this. It's a totally valid thought process and you know, exercise, but they just signed heronic to a fairly lengthy extension.

And what's more, they acquired them as part of their overarching plan to fix the blue line. And then it's like, do you pivot off it two years later and like, thank you, but we got to move on. Initially, I pushed back on it, but I'm starting to rethink. Who else are you going to trade? There's a big part of it. Who else is going to bring in these great young centermen and legit top six guys? Who else is, who else are you going to trade?

I'm with you. I am with you. Like, Leckar Mac are you going to trade? I'm with you. I am with you. Like, Leckar or Mackey is going to bring that? No, because Pronek is a proven NHL entity. Yeah. And I've seen some people push back. Do you think the 15th overall pick is? I mean, maybe if you combine them. No.

But even then you're like, who is going to trade? Again, Who is, you would have to be in a position to trade a really good young centreman. You'd be like, we need a guy now. Like we need a legit top four right shot defencemen, which are tough to find. That to me is the only roster player that would move the needle that is not Quinn Hughes. So the really interesting thing about Hronik, and some people have pointed this out

as a pushback to trading him, is they're like, at 7.25 million annually, he's gonna end up being really great value for, I mean, in Vancouver, he's a first pair defenseman, right, when he's playing with Hughes. At 7.25, with the cap going up, that's gonna to be really great value on a defenseman of his caliber.

You're actually making the argument to trade him at that point. Because what you're saying is he's got immense value. There's going to be teams lined up to get him because he is a really good defenseman on a really good contract. So someone texts in, Hughes likes Hronek too much.

They won't trade him. Paul, Hronek is tight with Hughes, that's a no go. Did you notice that Hughes and Horonick were split up more than they usually were down the stretch? Half the time I was wondering, are they experimenting here? You can't, you also can't, you can't always, I know that we always defer to, you gotta do whatever you can to keep Quinn happy

and you must appease Hughes, but I noticed that as well, down the stretch. You've mentioned it since day one of last season about needing to see these guys carry their own pair and there's no question that Hughes can carry his own pair but can't Aaronic. And I do think that the Canucks at some point acknowledged like, it's great that these two are playing together, but we do need to see what it's like life apart.

And I don't know if it's because they were entertaining the notion of trading them. Okay. Here's an ask us anything that I've got. You're going to win the gift card. I'm trying to win the AJ's gift certificate. Times are tough. I need my pizza. I work in media. Yikes.

What's a sports topic that comes up all the time that makes you roll your eyes? Okay, so I don't want to pick on the listeners, although I do it all the time, but there was a text that came in earlier about targeting Matthew Nyes with a big offer sheet. I saw it. Okay. My eyes rolled a bit. All right. I understand it. I understand. But for me, it's offer sheets. I know the Blues hit the Oilers with a couple last summer, but the amount of time people put into this topic and the types of players they throw around is

ridiculous given the likelihood of actually pulling one of these things off. The devil's general manager, Tom Fitzgerald, right? He had a really useful quote on offer sheets the other day. And he said, yeah, it's a tool to improve your team, but you need the cap space and strategically target players knowing full well there's no way a team can match because they don't have the cap space.

No way a team can match because they don't have the cap space. No way a team can match because they don't have the cap space. Cap space ain't going to be a problem for the Toronto Maple Leafs. He went on and this is the one thing that I always talk about that no one talks about enough. It's crazy. It's crazy that people don't talk about this.

Listen to the man. He said, I think the most important part of the offer sheet is the player has to want to move. You know, that's why targeting guys like Holloway and Broberg were just like, it was the, it was the perfect smartest target for the Blues to target the Oilers. First of all, the Oilers were in a cap crunch. Sure. Second of all, both Broberg and Holloway felt that they weren't getting the opportunity

that they needed in Edmonton. They were not thrilled with their roles with the Edmonton Oilers. Who knows, maybe they weren't thrilled with living in Edmonton either. Possibly. Okay. Matthew Nise has come out and said,

I want to be in Toronto. That's where I want to be. Is cap space going to be a problem for the Leafs this off season? I don't think so, especially if Marner walks, especially if Tavares walks and Tavares isn't getting the cap hit he's playing under right now. Anyway, cap space is not going to be a problem

for Toronto. Matthew Nies is the type of guy that teams are going to be after because of everything that we just said in the first segment about needing to have these big tough guys in the playoffs. Now, did it go perfectly for Matthew Nyes in the playoffs? No, but he's still young.

Okay. You're not going to be able to do it. You know, he wants to be in Toronto and I just, I always come back to that. Like now watch the Canucks pull this off. Nyes is gone because he's like, I only care about the money. Like now watch the Canucks pull this off. Nice is gone. Cause he's like, I only care about the money. I was lying about wanting to be in Toronto, but

to go to a young player and like say, okay, this is going to be really secretive. We're going to assign you an offer sheet and, uh, the team might match it. And if they do, that's going to sign you an offer sheet and the team might match it and if they do, that's going to be real awkward. That's a big sell job. Most of them will just be like, well, first of

all, I want to be here in wherever. I like it. I like my teammates. I'm a good player because you're after me. So obviously things have gone well here and I don't really want to mess with success. And I don't want to really make my general manager angry by doing something that puts him in a tough spot. Yeah, I'm with you. I kind of take a little bit of a different approach.

I get what you're saying, all of it, and you're right, but it's almost like I wish I it's almost like I wish that the offer sheet was more feasible, both in terms of being more open and allowing to try and recruit players and also now making can recruit players once they're off, right? You can talk to them. Right. So but the lesson, the compensation, perhaps. But well, the issue is, is like you have to be you have to be really sure, I think, if you're going to make an offer sheet, because you have to have the draft capital at your disposal to be able to give it up, right?

You have to make sure that your guy is gonna wanna come to your team. And then you have to make sure that the deal is so punitively damaging to the other team that they're not gonna match. And right now, the reason that they only happen once in a blue moon is because it's extremely difficult to pull off. In concept though, like they're not going to match. And right now, the reason that they only happened once in a blue moon is because it's extremely difficult to pull off in concept, though. Like they're great.

It's almost a great like tool in a fantasy, in a fantasy hockey land. Because the idea is like you could get a really good, really tantalizing young player and not have to wait until he's 27 or 28 years old for him to hit free agency. And there's something to be said for let's say you're a younger player and you're a restricted free agent, you spent three or four years in an organization, right? You've got a pretty good sense of where you're at and maybe you're projecting where you're gonna be

and you don't love that projection. It wouldn't be the worst thing for the rules to be loosened up a little bit so those guys can shake free. I agree with you, yeah. I understand the worry from the NHL team. It's like, we drafted this guy, we spent a bunch of time developing him and trying to get him to

this point. Now he wants to go somewhere else. I don't disagree with anything you said there. Yeah. I just think people pick the wrong targets. A lot of times they do. You know? Yeah.

It's like, why would Matthew Nyes want to, first of all, why would he want to leave Toronto? He's a big part of their future. He seems to like it there. He's going to get even more of a role now, especially if Marner's gone and the Leafs have the cap space to match it. Do you think the Toronto Maple Leafs are going to let another team bully them financially? Probably not.

Brother, that ain't going to happen. Yeah. Okay. Again, watch it happen. It'll absolutely happen. That'll be my luck. What do we got coming up next? AJ is going to join us at 7 Thomas Drance at 7.05 and then Bob the Mojmar Janovich at 7.30.

All your favorite guests. Don't forget Rick Dollywell is going to join us at 8 for a bunch of Canucks News and Notes. And then at 8.30 we're going to do Ask Us Anythings and What We Learns. And the best Ask Us Anything today is going to get a $100 gift card to AJ's Pizza on East Broadway. You are listening to the Halford and Brough Show on Sportsnet 650.