James McAvoy, Vol. IV
00:00Here I am likening myself to the latest brilliant reactor.No, seriously.I was indeed Navarady first, because I was there first.I was pulling all those moves.I did 24 characters, just for the record.She did two. It was really hard.It was really hard.Prepare your ears, humans.
00:18Happy, sad, confused begins.Hey guys, it's Josh.Welcome to another edition of Happy, Say, San Confused.It's one of our favorites today. James McAvoy is back,and now he's a director.We're talking about his new,film California Schieman, but of course we're hitting up X-Men, Split, Narnia, and so much more.Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the podcast.
00:40Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify.However, you're enjoying this.I don't care.Just hit the subscribe button.You know what to do.We love our regulars around here, and we love Mr. James McAvoy.He's come on the pot a bunch over the years, and this time it is for a very personal,special cause, because he is now a director.
00:56This has been something he's wanting to do for a long while, and it is now out in theaters,and I will tell you guys, this is a great movie.California Skiyman. It's a crazy, crazy true story about two young Scottish artists who actuallypretended to be American to launch their hip hop career. And it kind of sort of worked for a while.It's funny. It's sweet. It has some tragedy to it. It's a really great debut. And I'm sohappy to support it on the podcast. Check it out. California Skieman. As always, James is a greatconversation. He's funny. He's smart. He's a big old nerd. He loves Star Trek and Star Wars andDune and Narnia and all the things that I love and you probably love. And we talk about it all
01:36in this conversation today. Really fun stuff. And of course, we hit up X-Men, the new iterationof it, his take on that and much, much more. So as always, a great conversation with James McAvoy.I think you guys are going to dig it. Remember to check out his movie in theaters now, Californiascheming. And without any further ado, I hope you guys enjoy me and James McAvoy.Hi, guys.Hey, James.Hi, what's going on, man?You good?
02:04I'm good.What did we just talk like this for 45 minutes?We should.Hey, buddy.Yeah.Welcome back to the podcast.Thank you very much.Man of a thousand voices.
02:14And now we can add to the resume officially.He's a director.He's big time.Now I have to treat you with actual respect.That's right.That's right.You do.It sucks, man.
02:22No more asking me to have sex with your laptop.Let's actually,I was going to come to this later. Let's put the photo up. A little montage of some things we've done in the past.There's some crazy stuff. Okay. We've made out. We've made up multiple times. That's you havingsex with a computer. Uh-huh. That's you at a pub quiz killing, I think you killed Daniel Radcliffe and me,maybe. I stabbed you. I think you stabbed you both. Yeah. Um, you robbed a restaurant high onPCP with Jessica Chastain. With Jess Chastain. Who was speaking to just this morning?And then that, that one is like, I think our earliest when you punched me and kicked me, uh,
02:56kick my ass out of gym and yeah and made out with you and made out with you yeah yeah reallythe arc of a relationship it's really do you know what all all all things are in our relationshipwe are all things to each other at different times it's true of that relationship and now we'reclass classing it up and now you're respecting me so this is good oh god it was inevitable I guess um noin all earnestness it's always great to have you on the podcast and this is for a really good causebecause we've been talking for a couple years this has been long in the making you've wanted to do thisfor a while and it took a, you know, took a minute.But it has to be satisfying.
03:28I mean, I know this is, I mean, give me a sense of sort of where you're at as we tape this.It's literally opening, finally, California Schemean.Opens today, whenever you're adding this, it is open.Yeah.Because it's just open today.And yeah, I'm really proud.Look, it's the film I wanted to make.And if you don't like it, I can't really argue with you because it's not like, you know,
03:47sometimes I think a director goes out, oh, the studio took it away from me or we neverhad enough money to be able to truly capture the vision or the air.actors went a different direction. I was hamstrung by this. We lost half thefootage with like overexposed film or whatever. Nothing like that happened. This isthis is the film I wanted to make so if people don't like it I'm like, that's fine,that's fair. Thankfully, reviews seem to suggest people do like it. Audience reactionI know is definitely very positive. So I'm really really proud of it. Somebodyasked me, excuse me, I keep burping, I just roved half a like a burrito because it's my
04:22breakfast. I jammed it into your mouth. I'm like,Before you get in here.Keep looking at this watch and it's broken.Thanks, Omega.You lost that endorsement.Way to fuck up an endorsement deal.It is like a 60-year-old watch, so fair enough.We never have that scene in James Bond where he's like,
04:37ah, fucking Omega.I know, I know.James Bond loses to the bad guys because he like,got there 10 minutes too late.Yeah, I forgot to say.I forgot to wind it.I'll get it serviced.I'm not dissing Omega.
04:51I'm in trouble, man.Already?Wow, cancel them the first three minutes.Going to get a Swiss hitman after me.He's called the watch winder or something.That's my next movie.All right, focus.No, we don't focus.
05:05It's okay.Classic.Classy.A movie, California scheming, you made it.What you discovered is that you love this, that you're never going to direct again, that you...What's the epiphany you've come to?Somebody was at the after party of the L.A. premiere the other night and they were like,how do you feel?
05:23And it was quite a sincere, earnest question, actually.How do you feel?Like, I speak to a lot of artiststhat get to this point.And it's never good for them.It's never like, I'm not slacking you off, man.If you're, like, it was a good question.I represent Omega.
05:35It was a leading question.I know.It was a pretty leading question of like,you clearly feel like this doesn't match upto your expectation of what you'd feel likein this incredible momentwhere your films finally premiered in America.And I was like, well,
05:49it's kind of a different deal for me.I'm a performer, right?And as a director, you're creating, you're not performing, but you're still creating.The reward and the award is getting to do your job is to perform or to create.That's the thing you live for.I never in my world of streams was anyway thinking to myself,I just want to get to that premiere party or to get to that LA premiere.I mean, it's a good night and all that, but it was never my goal.
06:18The goal is to get to be lucky enough to be able to make the thing.Or to get, honestly, to do it again.I've heard from a lot of directors that would be like,I make it to make it, but I also make it so that I get to keep making them.I mean, you get a lot of directors who made one or two movies,and there was nothing wrong with them.I mean, if there's something wrong with them, fine.But they're kind of all right.
06:37Yeah.They're not even, maybe they're not like knock out the park, but they're not bad.They're like, they're all right.And they don't get to do it again.So it's hard.Well, I'll say on the record.I really dug this.Oh, thank you.
06:49You killed it.It's honestly.It's great.It's funny.it's emotional, it's very well made,it's a very impressive debut.Thanks, man.Look, we made it.
06:56It's a low-budget Scottish independent movie,and I can't tell you the last timethat one of those got releasedin physical theatres in North America.So I feel very honored that Magenta and Boband whee and everybody at that companythought that this could resonate with American audiences.It is a film that is set in Scotland and in London,
07:16but the DNA of it is West Coast,It's like never eat shredded.It's West Coast hip-hop, you know?Totally.And it shares a sentiment with the kind of entrepreneurshipand the fake it till you make it, the striving, the work ethic, the, we will do anythingto succeed, spirit that I think is part of America as well.You must relate to this on, I mean, I feel like anybody can relate to this, but especially
07:43a performer, someone that like early in their career probably was willing to do anything,was just like just was looking for a shot.And these are two young men who just are looking for that shot.Yeah.Is that how you connected with the material, just sort of like, oh, this is, in a way, bothof these guys were who I was at a sort of point.On so many levels, this is like a weird film about two real people and it's a weird filmabout myself.
08:06Right.Because I'm self-obsessed and I will make any film about me.Any filmmaker will.Yeah, that's the secret.This is the thing.This is the thing.I could do, yeah, I could do the story of Janice Joplin.I'm going to make it about me.
08:19I think you'll find Janice's journeywas going similar to James McAvoyance.It was quite, you know, there's a lot of similarities.There were two young guys from what you guys call a project.We call it a council scheme,which is why the film is called California Schemeanand trying to bust into the world of show business.And that was something that I felt was quite similar to my life.
08:44The way that they lived,usually when you get films set in projects, they're quite depressing.They're quite exploitative of the poverty and the obstacles.And that's fine.Those films are, a lot of those films are brilliant.But I never get to see a propellant kind of fun, aspirational crowd pleaser from peoplethat come from a project or a council scheme.And that was really important for me to do because when I was growing up, I walked outside
09:09my door.I didn't feel like I was in precious.I walked outside my door and it might have looked like the Scottish pressures, but Iwalked outside my door and it was full of events.I was getting chased everywhere and I was in fights and it was there was sex and therewas drugs and drinking craziness and fun and an adventure and you want to captureall that and not the the crime and then it goes further than that in terms of theone parallel to my life as well working class kid trying to break into the
09:36arts and what my version of this path is way less sensational than then Gavinand Billy's syllable and brains in California scheming but it's a path that I'veworked for 32 years and I definitely on my banal version of it kind of understand.I'm guessing it wasn't so banal.In terms of how I felt compromised, I don't think I ever felt so my integrity or myauthenticity or my identity never felt so obviously compromised as theirs did.I think, you know, from my 20s I was such a straight arrow or straight bat as we say.I don't say in cricket, but English people say about cricket.
10:13Like I played it straight and narrow.Did you have did you feel like you had a conscious fork in the road where you could have made an artistic compromise that that would have changed how you felt about yourself that like have you like judging yourself have you been pretty true to your instincts? Yeah I mean like you know getting offered yeah the opportunity to do I don't know award campaigns or um which I did do for last gang of Scotland I seem to remember I was like I can't I can't do it again and it's not just a judgment onthat that that machine which I feel is probably quite different now anyway it's not me just judging that machine it was me judging my ability to make it through it in one piece and you know getting offered awards or titles that that would maybe look good or sound good or help you in your life but completely compromise your morals and you the community that you come from um like are you time about like you're talking aboutlike bullshit awards that just people come make up like or that kind of thing or um honorsgot it honors um and uh stuff like that you could go a different path but you'd feel compromisedand again not judging people who take those things or well you have to live with yourself or you at theend of that take titles and stuff like that but that stuff is um yeah you got to look yourself in themirror and be cool with yourself and i'm cool with anybody else and makes a different
11:47decision no judgment uh but i judge myself right were you ever laughed ahead of an audition as theseguys aren't really on i think that remotely bad what's the what's you've got i mean i've had somepretty horrific audition lay back so give me one or two what do you go um i mean i think i'veprobably talked about most of these at some point my probably my sort of my sort of press careerbut um uh my agent wanted me to go up for the musical and we will rock you before they made themovie with Tom Cruise I think was in the movie yeah yeah rock of ages oh was atrock of ages maybe it wasn't we will rock you or maybe it was wrong you know the the beamingthe queen jukebox musical okay not behemian rap stood the movie anyway I was like what
12:32I need to do it's a musical I'm not a musical guy I can sing a bit but really like I'm nota musical guy and my agent Ruth who's been my agent my entire career and I love her and shehates me for telling the story she was like who you know you get the part you know Ithink it's going to turn the whoever gets his part in the big star and I was like oh god so I goa lot and she never talks at that anyway this makes us sound so not like Ruth this is not how Ruththis is going to make you a stab this is going to make you a star kid she's from Edinburgh she's likeyou know she's really pragmatic Scott and um anyway I was like all right and I go along and I learn thissong I've got this guitar I barely play guitar but I've kind of got half decent like for this one song
13:09and I'm just like they're like oh thanks for coming in James and just take it away and I'm likeI feel like I'm in a movie right andAnd I go like, this isn't true to myself, this isn't me.But instead of telling them that and excusing myself,I invent an elaborate story.And because I'm an actor, I act the shit out of it.And I start to cry.And I'm, I'm so sorry.
13:29I've, on the way here, my friend, he got hit by,weirdly, ironically, an ambulance.And I got him in the ambulance because it was up to end.He's away to the hospital.But I don't know why I didn't go with him.And I don't know.I don't think I could do it.And they were like, you must go.
13:45You go.You go.Be with your friend.go, go, James, go, go.And I was like, oh, Jesus.And so I'm never doing that again.Anyway, my agent phoned me upa couple of hours later.
13:53And she was like, what happened?Is Tom okay?Is Rosso?I was living to get my mates called Tom and Rosette time.And they're okay?I was like, yeah.Here's the thing, Ruth.Here's the thing.
14:04I don't think I want to be a musical.She's like, oh my God.She was like, if you ever do anything like that again?Because she was like, they want you back tomorrow.They were like, please come back tomorrow.I was like, no.Someone else going to get into an accident now?I know.
14:14I happen to get that.James.James.in prison because he murdered somebody.That's amazing.More happy, say, confused coming up.You've got your favorite blanket, a freshly poured drink, and a cold case burning a holein your streaming queue.
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16:21available or you turned it down?I've never heard that.Never heard that. Never heard that. Never heard that.I've been looked at for a few things where they sort of availability check you and they kind ofdangle it and they tease it.And you're like, oh my God, I can't believe it.I can't believe it.Whoa, give me the script.
16:34Give me the script.And you never hear anything.That was Star Wars.One of those.I got availability checked from them years ago.And I was so excited.Yeah.You're a mild Star Wars fan to say the least.
16:45Oh my God.Star Trek, Star Wars.Star Trek, Star Fighter.Star Fighter.Star Fighter.Why have they not done Last Star Fighter remade it?Because like that's a movie that's perfect for,being remade. Why have they not done it?
16:57I'm not looking for an actual reason, but I'm asking myself.Why have they not done it? Say again. Last Starfighter, I think is such a great concept.It's brilliant. It's brilliant. Yeah. Anyway, wait, so was this like Force Awakens time? Was that one in the Star Wars?I can't remember. I can't remember. I can't remember. Or one of the standalones.They never told me what it was either. I mean, basically if I took the call from my agent, I had to sign an NDA. Do you know what I mean? It was like just to speak to my agent about it.But there, what was the other one, Stargazer? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, a mutiny on the Stargazer.Stargazer, that was a whole idea I had. I pitched to the Star Trek people as well.And we nearly did it. Wait, wait, wait, wait. This was the, a Picard thing? Like, what was this?
17:32Like, I think you hinted at this to me once. I've got, I've got a whole story about an earlyPicard. I mean, all I really want to do in my career is play young versions of Patrick.Totally. It's not a good job of it. This whole story about like a young Picard that I love.So you pitched like a series or a movie, like a something? It was like a one-off standaloneseason. When he was starring, well, when he was the captaining, the start.Stargacer or he wasn't a captain yet or was he?When he took over his captain as a stargazer and what actually happened and the secret that he's been holding his entire career.And you came up with a whole like treatment, like a whole idea, like a whole...
18:05I just pitched it to them, talking to them and they were while into it, but we had logistical issues that we couldn't do it.But I love that story that I just go to bed about and think about it at night.I'm going to do the same now.That's amazing.Have you ever...These guys, okay, so I'm completely...connecting some dots from the story.So these two men, they lived the life.
18:28They decided to commit all the wayand pretend to be basically American.Yeah.Do you go, have you ever gone that route for like a part?Do you like live 24-7?Like, you're not that guy.Never, never.But I did do a movie.
18:41The movie I did be Jess Chastain.The first movie I did be Jess Chastain.I think I've done four movies with Jess.Yeah.Well, do we count two for Eleanor Rigby?Yeah, yeah, yeah.It's kind of two.Well, it's technically three.
18:51Oh, because they did another cut that matched together.Yep.So was it for that one you're saying?The director and the producer, Ned and Cassandra Kulakundas,they asked me to stay in accent when I was on set.So I did that for them.I don't know if it was to help me or if it was just to help them, like, talk to me.But that was weird, but I did it anyway.
19:19No, I've never stayed in character or stayed in accent or anything like that.But these guys, these guys, when they were rejected by the music industry and basically laughed that, like overtly and likened to the rapping proclaimers, which I actually think that's a type of proclaimers I'd be up for watching, they were devastated.I mean, these were young kids with huge talent, but young, fragile minds, you know.And they were on the floor and they thought, okay, we'll take the note.What do you want?And the Beastie Boys, you want Eminem, we'll give you it.and they adopted these West Coast skater boy, skater dude rap personas and went back and got their deal with the same label, with the same tracks, but with different accents.And the message was, you can't rap with that voice coming out your mouth.
20:05You can't rap if you're Scottish. You're not allowed.But they went even further.They went like, I don't know if you know many method actors.I don't, from what I can see from the outside looking in, it doesn't look particularly healthy for your head.they did it for two and a half years.It's insane.And they'd never acted before.And even when they were on their own,
20:25nobody around to catch them,they were just in deep character the whole time.And so the fact that it ends almost physically,immortally,tragically for one of them is no real surprise to me.Because if you mess with your mind for long enough,you're going to pay the price.Yeah.
20:43You've said that this experience was maybe the most stressful of your career.On my career,Not of my life, but definitely of my career.So what was it the shoot?Was it getting the money for it?Was it kind of finding the release?Like which part was the part that kind of gave you the most gray hair?I would say, getting the money for it was somebody else's job.
21:05I was like always like, this is over to you guys.This is over to the producers.And I'm going to be, I'm going to helm the artistic side of it, the logistical side of it.I'm going to prepare, prepare, prepare, prepare.We got into a lot of financial trouble at one.point and I turned to the producers and I said you're going to need to fix this becausewhen you fix this I'm just going to assume you're going to be able to fix this whenyou fix this I'm going to need to be prepped to make this film there's no point in me
21:33worrying that you're not going to fix it or coming to help you because when you getthat money and we can make this film I'm going to be on the back foot and I'm going tobe improvising right and making shoot up on the day and I was like I'm going to just assumeyou're going to say trust and when you need me to step away from prep and mycrew and you need me to come in like bend over and or kiss someone's ass or or lettheir ass touch my ass or whatever it needs to happen to get the money of them like Iwill do that and until then I got a movie to prep until then I got a movie andit was great and I didn't need to give any sexual favors in the end which is
22:06brilliant yeah and we got the movie the money so what was the stressful part thenthe shoot actually the shoot was just the time you didn't have enough timenever have enough time never have enough time never have enough timeWe, look, we made this movie for, it's a low, it's not micro budget, which I would always sort of characterize as like hundreds of thousands of pounds or dollars.We had three million, three-ish million.That's not a lot.Not a lot of money, especially this day and age.Like, we made last-
22:33Carried movie also.I mean, technically speaking, it is.Because we had to plan real hard to kind of try and get the period into it in ways that the period wasn't, not in ways that were expensive.It was crazy.And there's a lot we couldn't see.But, I mean, I think we made last can of Scotland for three million.And we shot for 10 weeks.And we went to foreign countries and like, and all of that.
22:53That's mind-rolling.Wow.And 10 weeks, we make California scheming in my home country.No travel, really.And that 3 million lasted five weeks.We did a five-week shoot.So we had 25 days.So it's crazy just what's changed and how far the money won't go anymore.
23:11But, you know, planning, planning, and I've worked with amazing directors and some bad ones.But I've worked with amazing directors.And I've seen how much the prep and the planning can really help mitigate and compensate for a lack of finance.I love how not only metaphorically does transpotting hangover this movie, it literally hangs over this movie thanks to this iconic kind of mural.That mural didn't exist.I made that.Is that right?Yeah.
23:36And of all the sort of product placement, not product placement or trademarks or like, you know, clearance things you had to do for the movie, that was the easiest to get.Who is that the Daniel.A little question?Film four.Channel four or film four,who are the major,I think the major people behind it.They just said yes straight away.
23:56And I was like, and so you and McGregor's face.I don't need to ask you in McGregor.And apparently I didn't.And I must make you feel good as an actor yourself.Like, okay.I know.And so I wanted something that was bad about the Scottish experience.And there was lots of versions of what I wanted on that wall
24:14because I wanted something bad.that was kind of like graffeted on the wall at the beginningthat could be rubbed off at the end.And so the thing called the poll tax,which was terrible and it was an awful taxthat was basically only,it was tested on Scottish people,but never in the rest of the UK.
24:30So we had it for like five years before anybody,an extra tax that English people didn't have to pay.Oh, that, that was a big thing.I thought about putting that on itand then rubbing it off in the end.Some major Scottish football defeatsor something like,they made us feel bad about the collective subconscious
24:44of Scottish psyche.But then I was like, what's going to extend outside of Scotland and be culturally relevant or recognisable?And even transport and I think is not instantly to everyone, but it travelled more, I felt.And I do think that, I don't think most people think it's shouting being Scottish, but I do think sometimes we are made to feel as if it's supposed to be.Where they're kind of, you know, without complaining and moaning, I made a film that's really fun instead of complaining and moaning.so why am I complaining and moaning now?But the film is about that.The film is a fun way to sort of combat that feeling
25:23that I think we're made to feel sometimesis a kind of second-class citizen nation sometimes.More happy, say, confused, coming up.There are vampires out there.They're beside you in the darkness,but what people don't understand is that they're not monsters.They're just going to work,living there on lives.
25:46But we are a...dying breed. Those who came before me, they are fearful and are not content to sit back andjust disappear. And they'll do anything to fix that. From the creators of Parkdale Haunt comesWoodbine, a podcast about monsters, dreams, and changes, those you want and those you neversaw coming. The final season begins this fall, distributed by Realm. Hi, I'm Whitney, and I'm Katie.And we're the hosts of True Crime Campfire. We set out to make a true crime podcast we'd want tolisten to. We get right to the story. We don't do a lot of extra talk in, and when we do,it's usually to roast the short hairs off of some loser, murderer, or scammer. You'll laugh,
26:23but only at the people who deserve it. Like, which serial killer would you most like to shoveinto a locker? B.T.K. in his awful poetry. Dude got caught because he didn't understand what a floppydisc was. We look for the stranger than fiction stories, like the case of Patty James,a killer catfish before the internet was even a thing. Or Howard Walmsley, a sentient, a sentient,wad of damp laundry who convinced his town he'd won the lottery, fleeced local businessesout of thousands, and then became a romance scammer. We've covered tons of cases you've never heardof, cults, scammers, killers. So come find your next great binge. Listen to True Crime Campfireon Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Friday.
27:09With shift gears, we've done it, we've had a lot of kind of career conversations withover the years. And we've also talked a lot about your your loves, the things you grew up with.This is something I've done with some filmmakers over the years.I call this the happy, say, confused movie Matrix.I'm going to ask you some kind of like predilections, things you like more than others.So, for instance, are you an alien or aliens guy?Alien.Okay.
27:30You like the horror or not the action.Yeah, and attention.And the performances, I think, I think, don't get me wrong.I love aliens.Yeah, you're not like, aliens is great.By the way, aliens sucks.My granda growing up, my grandin grander would always sleep in their bed, revolutionary.What?
27:46Weirdness.And Grandpa didn't sleep in their beds, right?It's wild.You guys need to come and visit.They'd always sleep in their bed with their door open.So I'd walk up upstairs and go past them on the landing up to my bedroom.And so I'd always know what they were watching in bed or whatever.And my grander would always watch aliens.
28:04Aliens, the second one.It's a great film.I love it.Just hear Bill Parks and saying game over out of your grandpas.Game over me, game over.But for me, it's alien.I think the performances in aliens are exceptional.I think performances in.
28:16alien are so wildly natural.And I'm not just all about naturalistic acting.I like weird and stylized acting as well.But some natural and gritty and like,just like Ken Loach made that film.Right.Just like working class work like crew.That's just so.
28:36Yeah.Like you know,you set that film in a council estate or a project modern dayand there's like a serial killer running around chasing everybody.I don't think anybody's watching it.Yeah.You can make that film about working class people in space.And that's the weird thing about sci-fi.
28:51I think it allows us to free ourselves of the kitchen sink mundanethat makes us go, I don't want to watch that.Or, oh, I understand everything about that.And you make judgments and you have preconceptions about it.You put that exact same story in space,and suddenly we're leaning in, looking at the details and nuances,as if they're brand new with no preconception.It's partly why I love sci-fi.
29:15Yeah, you were telling me the last time you were on thea pod that like you'd like to do more sci-fi yeah I'd love to do more sci-fi I guess they're notdoing it I mean obviously like there's dene doing do and et cetera but like horror is the thing andyou obviously have a real horrify horror sci-fi you're in there um I am in there I am in thereyeah I'd love to do more sci-fi um but yeah it's just I mean for me one of the most relevant thingsone of the most relevant things getting made back when you know one of the the multiple times thatthere was a war in the Middle East with the West and with us and um was Battlestar Galacticadealing with insurgency and dealing with terrorism within your own borders and and like
29:54there was nobody else doing this yeah battle Star Galactica which was never that show back in theday no it was so cheesy and came in with such well and I loved it back in the day as well as a goodbut like um came in with such sort of political and social penetration it was amazing um you a horse in thisrace or two but what's the best comic book movie of all timeWantedII lovedlots of them
30:25I likethe best comic book movie of all timeI mean do you go old school Supermanyou go dark night you go dark nightit's hard to beatDark Night with the Jokerhe pledger giving an incredible performancethat movie's exceptional
30:42I do like Infinity War.I think Infinity War is great.Yeah.I really think Infinity War is great.And not just because I'm in it, but I think Days of Future Past is, it felt like it was one,maybe not the only one, but it felt like it was right at the beginning of all these mashups of cast and mashups of time and mashups of this and that.And actually really pulled it off brilliantly.And then I was scared going to that movie because we'd gone such a different tangential direction with first class.
31:21Right.And it was a success and it was good and critically and financially did really well.And we all loved being in it.And then we went to days of future past.And it was, no, we're not doing that anymore.We're kind of going back to what we did with Brian in 99 and 2000.And I was like, ah, this feels like a misstep.But I was wrong.
31:40In a way it also, in a way it kind of elevates in retrospect first class, which I absolutely adore because it's more of a one-off than any other X-Men film and most comic book films.And that's very much Jane and Matthew's voice all over that film.And really also, I mean, it was a big cast, but it was also, it focused, it survived off its chemistry between like two characters that we love, but we never really get to spend.a whole movie with them yeah and we kind of got to spend a whole movie with this relationshipwhich i thought was the only time you've ever done it if christopher abbott does the fingerthing are you gonna sue that's yours that's your finger it was in the comics but you made itit was in the comments but you really made i pulled it from the comments i know but if he does doublefinger then he'll be hearing from team maccalfoy oh no no i'm there for the double finger
32:34we've heard that about you there for the double thing you just need you can't you've got to pick the right timeto...Don't overshoot your fingers.Don't introduce the second finger.Let's let that set for a second, everybody.Just let that set, everyone.There we go.Is the worst thing about...
32:51If there is a bad thing about being in the X-Men movies,is it that you're going to be asked about the X-Men moviesuntil...I need to stop talking about the X-Men movies,and here's the reason. I've got a $3 millionindependent Scottish film.Possibly the first Scottish filmto be released in American cinemas
33:04in 30 years. I don't know.Probably not, but maybe.and if I say it and about X-Men, that's the headline.Whereas I'm trying to sell California scheme.But we're bringing them in.We're sucking a man.In the wake of it.Has the recent, have the recent Dune films given more life to your Dune?
33:23You think at all?Have people rediscovered your Dune?I think they've forced my Dune further Dune.No.What is one thing your Dune did better than Deneese Dune?Well, my Dune...I need to say the way you actually say it, Dune.which sounds like the month, June.
33:39We say June, not Dune.What do I say?Oh, yeah, I say Dune.Dune.For me, Dune means down.Okay.We'd say I'm gone down.So what do I say?
33:46You say Dune.But what should you say?Yeah.Oh, no, you shouldn't.That's the way you say it.You should say it the way you say it.And how do you say it?June.
33:53Dune.Like with a J.June.June.Okay, June.Okay.So my June was, has, I think, I don't even know what he's going with his next film.My story started after what he's made.
34:06So this is not quite,Apples to apples.Right.Do you like the,you like what's any is done?I love it.I love it.I think they're brilliant.
34:13I think,um,I think they're really quite,um,words that are reductive like epic.But,um,yeah,
34:23he's really captured the religious zealotand the religious sort of manipulation part of it,I think,which is sort of key to all.Um,and the doomed kind of,um,figurehead that Paul is,
34:36knowing, he kind of knows, he knows it's never going to work.Do you know what I mean?But he's doing it for someone else so that it can work,which is who I ended up playing.Right.And my June.Do you, you pop up at the end of this, this June?No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
34:53were you like son, grandson, great, great grandson?I was son of, I was Paul son.Right.But Lito the second.Yeah.So I was late, I was Oscar, I would be an Oscar Isaac's grandson.I see, look at that.But I know, it was a silver.
35:06remain of hair the same thing you got it who's it was a it wasn't Oscar dinner one obviously it wasWilliam Hirk William Hurt was um yeah was Paul's dad yeah was his name but later the first yeah thereyou go uh here's a random one last time i spoke to your buddy fast bender he told me an amazingaudition story when he opened up for mad max back in the day did you get a mad max audition i did notman thanks george love your work begman you're probably a bigger mad max fan than all the guys thatwent up for that one. I don't know, actually. I remember I watched the first Mad Maxbecause I feel like most people who've seen all the new Mad Maxes of course. They've seen Mad Maxbeyond the Thunderdome. Yeah. Not a lot of people have actually watched the first Mad Max,
35:50which is almost a kind of wilder film. Oh, totally. Than any of the stuff that comes after. Yeah.Rogue Warrior gets, it's much bigger. Mad Max feels like dirty, dangerous, like. And also likemuch closer to the world we actually lived in at that time. Yeah. Yeah.less sort of like world building so therefore it felt like is this set now yeah or is it postapocalypse or is it just these terrifying people everywhere you know I mean it's it was real reallymess in my head as a really young kid because I used I slept in my great grandmother's bed quite alot yeah and I just wake up at 2 in the morning she'd be watching whatever was on telly becauseshe was a super old lady and she you know older people don't sleep as well and all that because I'm
36:31like and I remember like mad knacks me know and be like I was like Ireally need to start sleeping in my own bed.This explains a lot.I want to set the record straight on something.I was an idiot.One of the times we spoke, we talked about Star Trek, and you talked about how you, I think,turned down a role that they wanted you for.And for some reason, I said, McCoy, obviously they wanted you to play Scotty.
36:50I won't be drawn on that.But I do remember, I met JJ.I think I met him for lunch at, like, the four seasons in L.A.,and they were asking me to come along and play.and I said, I'll play Kirk.Right.And I said, but do you know something?And he said, do you want to come Cammer to ask for Kirk?
37:14And I was like, no.I was like, I remember saying to him, right.And I'm not taking credit for anything because JJ Abrams,I said it earlier today in a different podcast.I've done every podcast in the world today.Just today.When I was describing sci-fi films, I loved that first Star Trek movie that you made.I love it so much.
37:34And anyway, I said, I'm not going to come to test for it because I'm not right for it.And I was like, I just feel like he's, you know, the old Kirk was like the quarterbackbut your Kirk, the way you've written this because it was brilliant.It was a great script.I was like, your, your Kirk is like the quarterback gone bad, like gone wrong.And then the story is like, how does he become whole again?How does he become the Kirk we know?And you couldn't have got a better interpretation of my direction than the Kirk we got.
38:03But he's amazing.He's amazing.That movie is a miracle of casting what they did on that.It's so, so good.For hardcore Trek fans like you and I,like it was like how you possibly recast and they did it.Totally.And he, see when I saw that film, I was like,
38:19G.The way he wrote it, I didn't give JJ that note.It's not like I'm trying to say like,JJ heard that and then he went and got Chris Pine.That's not what happened.The script was just so brilliantly written.It was, I hate this term in Hollywood,but undeniable,
38:32the kind of actor you needed.for it. And he's got that. He's got that sort of, um, he's beautiful. And he's such a sort of stud.And at the same time, there's something just a bit, right, a bit of him, which I'm sure he wouldlove to hear. He's like, he wants to be just the kind of standard gorgeous guy. Oh, he resisted that.That's this whole thing. Like the Princess Diaries like print, like he hated that shit.And his like balance of, his balance of like seriousness, authority, um, earnestness and like,winking comedy. And his nods to that stuff that Shatner used to be able to do so he's,he's, you couldn't have done better.
39:03What goes into a Tumnus audition?What did they make you do?Well, do you know what?I honestly don't remember too well.It was that traumatic.Yeah, I know.It was kind of like trying to get funding for California skiing.Dark, dark shit.
39:18I know.Put on these goat feet now for me.Yeah, no, I know.I was possessed by the ghost of C.S. Lewis.You really don't remember.It's just another audition.Vaguely, vaguely.I remember sitting with Andrew Adamson.
39:33and talking afterwards,but I don't remember doing any acting.I remember them kind of explaining to methat they had a different actor to play the role.Somebody else had the job,and he was older.He was, I think he must have been in his mid-30sor something like that,
39:49and he was an established actor.And then when he kind of started to auditionall the pevencies, the young children,and they saw, I think they saw thousandsupon thousands of people,and they were starting to do the sceneswith Tumnus,prospective potential Lucy's they just made a massive realization that you know as
40:09much as mr. Tumnus is cute and they do become genuine friends he is also somebodywho's kidnapping her and taking this little girl back to his house and effectivelydrugging her and then giving her into bondage to the the white witch and they werelike this is this is we can't have a man do this right and so they were like we need aboy and so they came to me II think I was like 22 or 23 and I looked about 14 and it had no threat.I was so benevolent.Little did they know what was to come and-
40:42Little did they know.Is that as like happy a moment early in the career to get that role for?I, those, that BBC Chronicles of Narnia that was made in like 1980, whatever, I watched that, we did it video, we taped it and I played it all the time.And the book, because the book is like, and you're done.It's like it's one of those, it's like the hobbit.You like, you fly through it.I read that book so many times.So to be involved in play Mr. Tomlinus.
41:14It was a dream come true for me.Honestly, like that sounds so, Gleb, it was genuinely a treat.No, I know.It means a lot to you.Yeah.I mean, we talked before early on about kind of like the awards part of the thingand how that can feel a little icky or whatever.But like, when Split came around, there was real talk.
41:30justifiably so that you should be recognized it still remains one of the mostimpressive things i've seen on film full stop and i think many would agreedid you get i don't know did you get caught up on that a little bit like when like people startedto be like i know it's a genre movie but like this guy deserves its props i got this bar of goldbullion and i crafted my own and i had a ceremony from it no um um uh no no not particularly i didn't think itwould get welcomed into that sphere much. I mean, I think some horror performances or scary movieperformances are kind of breaking through now. But even then, it's not that many. It's not like,it's for the amount of good work that's done in that field, I still don't see enough
42:18representation of that good work. But then I kind of feel like that with all award shows anyway.In every genre, I'm like, these movies that you've nominated are generally speaking really good.every now and again there's stuff and then you're likebut they're generally really goodbut there's like another 20, 40, 50equally if not better good out therebut they just they aren't like at what levelor they're not part of the club or something like that
42:43so the fact that horror or scary moviesain't so much part of the club was no big surprise to meit's getting a wee bit different nowbut I wasn't bothered.Indy Navarotti seems to be like someonefor obsession I don't know if you've seen that onethat people seem to be likeI think she's exceptional in that film
42:57she's so so goodand her ability to pivot,which I think is part of what people liked in my performance.Here I am,likening myself to the latest brilliant reactor.No, seriously.I was indeed, not ready first, because I was there first.I was pulling all those moves.
43:17I had 24 characters, just for the record.She did two.It was really hard.It was really hard.She, I think,but I think the pivoting from moment to moment,and the psychological right angle she's capable of in that film is disturbing and in itself.It's not just impressive.
43:35It's not just like, wow, that's dexterous acting.It's also part of what's scary about her as well because we look at behavior like thatand find it so alien.Yeah.And yet it's in the physical form of a human being.It freaks us out.And I think like, I think what she's doing in that film as well, as much as it's a magical sort of torture that's been put upon her.it is also sort of representative of a mental issue that she's suffering.
44:05And I think the heart of a lot of horror is, or scary movies that aren't necessarily horror,there is a sort of mental instability.And because I think one of the things we as humans find so scary in a social situation is mental instability.And I know it's very hard for people to be around to take on board to confront in a way that isn't just like,oh, I feel sorry for you.now I don't need to talk to you right because I don't like to look at it I don't like to bearound it I don't know what you're going to do it's it's really uncomfortable andunsettling for people and and I think at the heart of a lot of that stuff is is
44:38psychological trauma and instability she just plays that so well was it um you've alsodone like a lot of work in recent years and like the audiobook forum Sandman yeahHarry Potter was it meaningful to do Medeye Moody in Harry Potter did you have funwith that one I there's one scene in that that's why I did it and it's the onewhere he shows how he the picture and that was the reason i did it i thought it was amazing also as wellbecause it's kind of written he's written as a Scottish character right and um and the i think they madehim Irish when Brendan did it and i was gutted about that but Brendan's great i'm not slagherbrilliant so when they came to a Scottish person to do it Scottish i was like aye let's do this but um
45:17it was for that picture but also as well i just had one called recall um which um uh that hasJD Kirk wrote.And that's the first, like, proper full-on narration that I've done.All the other audio stuff I've done is, like, acting.Right.And dramatized stuff.This is the first, like, full-on, just I narrated sort of 70 hours of whatever.Not that much, but like a lot.
45:44Yeah.Doing all the characters, kind of like the whole.All the characters.And it was, it is one of the biggest workouts I've ever had as an actor.Yeah.And I loved it as well.and that's going down really well as well,and we're going to see if we can turn it into something.
45:59I always think about, do you ever see it again?Everything goes back to Patrick Stewart.I remember seeing his Christmas Carol on stage.I'd kneel in front of a picture of him every morning.This is the Patrick Stewart podcast, by the way.No, that guy could do anything.It's called Engage.Exactly.
46:14It writes itself.Wait, so one more question on the Mad I-Moodie, Harry Potter.I just had a kid Harrington who's reprising his role in the live action.Any interest in doing that character or another characterin the live action series.Oh, man, I ain't setting stuff up.That's headline photo.This is headline photo.
46:30I know for California.I got to sell California Skimming.This is selling it.I'm telling California Skimmy.Okay, he's playing Voldemort.We just confirmed it.Just saying.Oh, good.
46:45Anywho.Anyhow.Hey, let's end here.You have an amazing filmography.Let's pit some of your films against each other.You're going to choose the best James McAvoy movie of all time.The movie?Not like my performance, but the movie.
46:56Do it however you want.Okay.And it's no judgment.It's today at this moment, for instance.Cool.Yeah.Wanted versus split.Who wins today?
47:04I think split.Okay.Narnia versus speak no evil.Oh.They're so different.I know.That's the beauty of it.That's so different.
47:20Are they that different?They're basically the same movie.Yep.I'm Aslan at the end of that movie.That means Paddy's coming back.That means I'm going to get resurrected.And Paddy was some sort of modern-day avatar for the Christ figure.That's weird.
47:38I'm going to say, just because I had more...Oh, God.Just today, just at this moment.Not binding.Don't worry.Just because it's more complicated and messed up,and it makes you laugh at things that you shouldn't laugh at.Speak no evil.
47:55I was going to say, if he goes Narnie after saying that, that's weird.I know.Narnia, the dark comments.do, right?Atonement versusLast King of Scotland.Uh,oh,
48:05yeah,that's still no fair.I know.They're like two of the bestI've ever done.I peaked too soon,Oatonement.Atonement.
48:13Atonement and filth are my twofavorite films.Sorry,I didn't put filth in here,but it is great.You're absolutely right.But here's the last one.X-Men first class
48:21versus days of future past.First class,days of future past.Which one?As you said,because it's standalone,for me first class okay um but i think days's future passes up there is one of the bestsort of superhero movies okay so now it's down to split versus speak no evil
48:44leak no evil split no no split no glass we won't allow it uh split or speak no evil split or speak noevil i think uh my uh uh you got thisSplit.Evil.We're doing split.You said split.Atonement versus first class.Atonement versus foreclat.
49:10Atonement.Okay.Here we go.This is it.Split versus Atonement.The greatest James McAvoy film of all time is...A splitment.Atonement, I think.
49:22Atonement.Yeah.I think Joe Wright made a more on day masterpiece.I think he's amazing.No argument.You've made a lot of bangers.I've been lucky, man.I've had such a good career.
49:32Touchwood, it's only going to be over in about two years.What a run, though, we had.It's been good while it lasted.I'm just going to go direct, like, soap opera.I'll probably direct more and more and more and more and act less and less, I think.Do both.I'll try and do both.I'll try and do both.
49:48I mean, I don't get paid $2.50 for being a director, so, like, I'll probably need to act.But, um, that sweet wanted money, the residuals.The sweet, sweet wanted money.I don't get too much money from wanted.What's the residual check that comes most?The only movie that you've always got like a good back endand there's like some in your contractyou get back end here and back in there.
50:09I very rarely see anything from anything.You get the odd check for like, you know, a couple hundred quid hereor sometimes you get checks for like 25 cents and all thatand you're like it literally costs more to post thisand you did from you check it, cash it.The only one that really consistently pays me is split.Really?Because we made it for, I think it was made for like six minutes.
50:29million or something like that. Yeah. And let's say they spent 30 advertising it. Right. Um,and our first weekend we made 40. So we were in profit. Wow. So our first residual check came at theend of the first weekend. That's Tomlin knows how to do it on the right. I know and of all he'snice. Night is super smart in so many ways. And he's also, I have to say, I took very consciously tookfrom many of the directors that I worked with and subconsciously as well. But um, what the thing that Itook away from him was his preparedness.Yeah.Because, you know, he made that film and glass on incredibly modest budgets and very focused
51:08on how he would maximize his day and maximize his shots and maximize what he got out ofthe story that he by just being incredibly well prepared and being able to share thatand communicate that with the crew.Joel Wright, I would say as well as the one that I absolutely ripped off with how tocommunicate with the crew.in terms of what I want and in terms of what the scene is meant to be and how he managed to likeengage the full sort of capability of a crew because a crew of filmmakers are like that's a incrediblyso much talent in their resource if you can activate all that and he did that so well and in kind
51:48of benevolent manipulation i guess i keep calling it's not but it's like but making them feellike they have a seat at the table and they're part they're invested in he made he made the crew feelfeel like filmmakers that day more than any other person that worked with.And that's like, you make somebody feel like a filmmaker with that amount of talent,they're going to bring it to the table.It was incredible.So I totally ripped them all for that in the best way.It's on the screen.
52:10Congratulations, my friend.Honestly, California Schemin, a great piece of work launching the new directing career, one James McAvoy.Here we go.Cheers.New stuff to talk about.Everybody supported, support James.We broke news today.He's Voldemort.
52:23This is so exciting.Thank you for that.Not saying anything.He's just laughing.You're wheezing.What happened?I'm losing my word.I've done five days of press.
52:36The film's so good that after we released it in April in the UK,the cast are all working tons.None of them can come to America to sell this thing.Oh, that's poor man.That's why I'm doing every podcast that's ever existed.Don't diminish this.The studio that's distributing it or actually putting me in a time machine.It go back to when podcasts first existed.
52:56It's doing old time radio.old ones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're doing Mark Maron. That's great. It's great. It's brilliant.It's brilliant. So I'm losing my voice. Okay. It's good to see you.Nice. You too, man.And so ends another edition of happy, sad, confused.Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts.I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.Steve Cubine and Nan McNamara's podcast from Beneath the Hollywood Sign.
53:29been keeping a diary. Mary writes everything down. And so this torrid affair with George S. Kaufmanis chronicled on a daily basis. In great detail. And Iph pulls out a box and gives McAllister a ringsaying, here's something to remember me by. This article caused Daryl Zanick to hit the roof.Actress Ruth Roman followed that up with playing a foil to Betty Davis in Beyond the Force. I mean,if you can stand toe to toe with her. And she does because she plays thedaughter of the man that Betty Davis kills out in the hunting trip.And it's directed by King Vidor, so he's no slouch.Speaking of the Oscars, talking about what I call Beginners' Luck, the actors and actresses who
54:12won an Oscar on their very first film.Get your fix of Old Hollywood from Stephen N on the podcast from Beneath the Hollywood Sign.
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