HardLore's Top 10 Most Important Episodes
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00:56 Hello, welcome. It's Hardlord Time. How you doing, Bo? Yes, we are back. The lists are back. the list episodes and the bracket episodes were both foundational key aspects of hard lore for the past four years and I of course have not done one in over six months since the passing of my beloved co-hosts, Mr. Bo Luters. And I kind of realized over the past few weeks that I have not really stopped to take the time to reflect on
01:30 what the last four years of this show have been. and the episodes that got us here along the way. And I just turned another year older a few weeks ago. And I figured it was time, you know, to stop, reflect, and to bring back, of course, the list episodes that you know and love in a very different way. This time we're not celebrating 10 albums with the top five, but we're celebrating 10 of 230 episodes that we've now done on this show. So I figured this week on hard lore, I would give you all what I think is, in a way, an objective top 10 most important hard lore episodes of all time.
02:16 And what do I say when I mean objective? I mean episodes that either moved the needle creatively for Bo and I in a way or moved the needle statistically to new audiences. So these are things that inspired us and made us feel like, oh, We've got something here. Or brought new eyes to the show, brought new context to the show, and made the show what it is today. So let's roll that beautiful intro, Stephen. And we're back. That was two seconds ago for me.
03:15 So pretty funny. I figured I would start this week's episode with a few honorable mentions because a top 10 is hard. So shouting out some extra ones along the way makes it a little bit easier. And normally we would do 10 picks and then a top. five, but today I'm going to give you five picks and that a top 10. And these are in no particular order episodes that I think were just important to our development in a way. Honorable mention number one, our very first guest, Sean Martin, formerly of hate breed, currently of twitching tongues and hundred demons. I had a lot of moments in my, I'm super grateful for everything, man.
03:52 Like that's fucking so surreal. Like I always say like, I got a lot of great friends that are like my day-to-day friends that I've met through music through the hardcore scene. And I just like really, I'm blown away, dude. I'm just some dude from Waterbury. I don't know what the fuck happened. Like, it's sick. It's sick as fuck. Like, I look at that stuff, and I don't even believe that to me. Like, I don't even fucking believe it. Like, it's so cool.
04:17 But at the same time, I'm kind of like a weirdo where I kind of wasn't impressed with it at all the whole fucking time. That's how it is. But I wasn't, like, cock. It's not about being, I was in such, I was in such disbelief that I didn't take it seriously while it was happening. Like, I just got to go do this shit. There's how many thousands of people? Yeah.
04:36 All right. This was our first test at an interview. Really, the first interview we ever did, which is barely an interview. It's more of a conversation about all things. We got to show the world inside the mind of Sean, a very unique, very beautiful mind, We showed you the sweat of his brow, the Martin Sheen, as we call it, and got into so many stories about hate breed, about how we recruited him in twitching tongues,
05:07 which was a cold email. I have actually never gone back and watched this episode. Did you know that? I edited this myself. I'd edited the first 100 episodes, 99 maybe. I did all the editing, all the reels, all the audio, everything, all the thumbnails. I did that all myself. Eventually, my main man, Stephen took over for me.
05:26 me and Carrie took over for me on the thumbnail and bracket department so you can blame her for all those crazy matchups. But Sean Martin was our very first guest and I love him for that. I'll always appreciate him for that. There's a lot of people. He's told me in his life that people will ask him all the time like, you know Hardlore? And he'll say, yeah, I was the first guest. And I love that. The next honorable mention would be from Mind Force and Crush Your Soul, Jay Pitigine. That's right. Jay Pita. I hope he's doing all right. I know he just recovered from a crazy surgery and he's out of commission. But this episode is like
06:01 electric. There's a chemistry that occurs during this thing that just felt Howard Stern-esque, which many of the episodes we're about to talk about later, also shared that common bond. But Jay was just a guy who got the vibe immediately. I know he
06:17 told us he was a frequent listener of the show. I believe he still is. And he just got it, man. We were flowing crazy. This is this is the origin of mosh three mosh four mosh five that whole discussion bro there's something that i created with my brother jesse sutherland from all that war called mosh three philosophy please tell me more enlighten us not every song has the ingredients to get to mosh three but you're talking about pit to pit to pit that's coveted we talked about how all our favorite bands and
06:51 jesse's band all that war will go pit to pit will go mosh one And then MASH 2. And Jesse was like, bro, do you think Mosh 3 is possible without being stupid? And it is. And if you can get to Mosh 3 in some songs, I feel like, I feel like Mosh 4 is overdoing it without a part in between. I don't know. Again, it depends on the degree. Does let me ask you this.
07:17 Does Mosh 3 slow down count? Like, does slowing down Mosh 3 halfway count as Mosh 4 is that extended Mosh 3? No, it can count as mash four. Well, then, Mosh four is absolutely possible. Okay. Let me tell you. And we were trying to figure out in the episode what songs went to Mosh four. And what I mean by that is, of course, a Mosh part that evolves into another Mosh part,
07:42 that evolves into another Mosh part that evolves into another Mosh part. We couldn't figure one out in the moment. Weeks later, maybe even months later, Bo and I discovered live on the show that Apocalypse Now, Cromag, went Mosh Four. We're shouting out Jay in the moment. And then he sent me a voice memo after listening to it saying he was in the shower screaming, saying they did it. They did it. And I really did feel like we did it.
08:09 And also, we discovered later that strife blistered is Mosh 6, which might be the most in Mosh history. Jay Pita, his incredible episode is what got us there. Our next honorable mention is honorable in impact only. and that was our very first live Harlore episode, which was in Manchester, UK, at Outbreakfest. We're in Manchester. Wow. You guys, he's gonna,
08:40 you guys know this is our first live pod, first thing we've ever done like this. We're in another country on the other side of the world for us, especially for him. This is amazing. I don't think the content of the episode is all that great. I had nothing prepared, which is why,
08:55 you'll see I go so fucking crazy on the live episodes now with the jeopardies and the themes and the wheels of fortunes and the family feud because I don't want to show up with nothing, you know, and I don't think a live interview is particularly interesting, not inherently uninteresting, but I want to guaranteed incredible evening for everybody that pays to be there. Nobody paid to be there. I think this was just part of the fest at this point, but they chose to come and watch this instead of 500, 600 people chose to be in this room instead of turnovers set during the biggest festival in the UK. And I had not slept in like a week. And for some reason it was making me really
09:37 like emotional. So the fact that we were doing our first live episode of our podcast, a little over a year after it had launched, in Manchester UK, like whooped my ass emotionally. Bo did a great job. Beau was always really good with live crowds. He felt like that was where he thrived. And I really agree. I think he like legit carried this very first live episode. I think there's some fun moments, some funny stuff, some German stuff. That's always fun.
10:08 I got a pretty superficial question because I appreciate all the deep talk. But we all know you're calling you're a massive guy. But 90% of your massiveness is your shirt cut out. Oh, yeah. And it was a special thing. It is an important milestone, whether I, thought it was good or not. So I think it is worthy of the honorable mention for the milestone alone. The next very important honorable mention. This almost made the list. Okay. And based on how many people
10:38 still bring it up to me to this day and brought it up to Boe right until the end was me trying to eat 200 McNuggets in New York in a hotel room. This started with me haphazardly claiming that I could do it. And for the record, a part of me still thinks that I know that I can't do it, but thinks that I can get closer than 88 nuggets, 89 nuggets, whatever it was. I didn't eat breakfast. I didn't eat dinner the night before because I thought that that would offer me some kind of strategic advantage when in reality, you're supposed to gorge and gorge and gorge to expand your tummy, right? And I noticed this after because after I ate the, 89 nuggets. I had a cheesecake. I had creme brulee. I had a whole dinner afterwards. I had a big
11:29 breakfast the next day. Oh, some roast beef, some chicken, a pizza. That changed my psyche towards the challenge. And we had a lot of fun just and and Rob who shot this episode. It like looked so good and we it was it's one of our like best looking episodes which was kind of like why is this 200 Nugget challenge one of our better looking presentations? That kind of made us. step up overall. Rob Menzer did such a great job on this. Best vomit in my life. My God, this thing was beautiful.
12:00 College just got back from puking up. You're puking up. I feel so good, dude. I've been gone, we wrapped five minutes ago. Yeah. I walked in my room, puked instantaneously. I feel like I'm mad. I'm pro vomit.
12:11 Many people don't get that. That throwing up is good. I'm not saying make yourself do it. But you got to do it, if you're doing something like eating 5,000 kids. calories and nuggets, by all means, get that shit out of there, man. This was so fun, so memorable, so unique because it's still this conversation about hardcore and it's very us.
12:36 I talk about bloodborne. I go on and on and on and on. This church discovers this alien blood, and the alien blood can heal anything, but eventually you turn into a beast. So the alien blood has healing properties, all kinds of stuff. It's this miracle thing. But you're going to turn into a beast and you're going to start hunting. So who do they send to hunt the beasts?
12:59 The hunters. What do the hunters use to heal? The old blood. It's a vicious. It's a cycle. People still send me this thing. There's this meme that's like local man paralyzed after eating 431 nuggets or something. So the limit is 430.
13:15 I've seen it. I've seen it so many more times than you have. You seeing that and sending that to me, you think that it's my first day on internet. When in reality, my life is internet. This is my life. I'm logged the fuck on in ways you would not believe. You don't need to send me the meme unless it's the guy who's doing, having his friend throw stuff at his shins to see how much they can take.
13:42 You don't need to send it to me. And even if you're sending me that guy, I got his post notifications on, all right? I know when he posts. Trust me. 200 Nugget Challenge was an instant hard lore classic Beloved by all They still talk about it to this day I and you know Zuma tried it
13:59 Zuma from cruelty He was awful He thought he could take me Pathetic Bo tried it He did not think he could take me I actually kind of mind Controlled him into doing that
14:10 I knew it would be fun What's a direction you'd like to see hardcore go That it hasn't before Or is there a sound that has been done before But you don't think it was fully expanded on it? Push the button. Push it. 61.
14:24 Allegedly. And that's all she wrote, folks. And it was fun. And we had a good time. He threw up into the toilet that I had just... And I quote, shitting crazy style. So I think that really was the extra vomit-inducing mile that he needed.
14:45 He also had two sprites when he did it, which I don't think that helped him at all. I had Diet Coke because I thought bubbles would be good, but I think maybe just water next time. Not that I'm going to ever do it again. But I'm curious which of my many guests and friends could do more than me. Because I am the eatingest motherfucker that I know. Maybe Big Justin from Blood for Blood laid to rest, but probably not.
15:10 And my final honorable mention, which I think still sits at our audio peak highest of all time downloads. downloads are like an extinct metric for a podcast at this point. But that would be Maddie Matheson. No, me, I'm 100% hardcore kid. Like everyone, like, the amount of times that people are like, what's your chef tattoos? I was like, what? This is cromags, bitch.
15:35 Yeah. I was like, you want to say about chromag's tattoos? You fucking losers. We did this amazing episode in his long-term Airbnb while he was shooting season two of the bear, which was so crazy for us to think about at the time. And it's crazy to think about the bear not being a show anymore. Like, this show has been around almost as long as that was. And this was a big milestone for us because he's just such a great, actually famous guy.
16:01 You know, so a lot of people tuned in out of the woodwork for this. And I don't know. If you, if Maddie was your first episode, tell me below. I'd love it. I would like to know what your first episode of the show was. If you can remember where we got you, please let me know below because I'm very curious. But this Maddie episode did so much on the audio side. It built this kind of steamroll and momentum for the next few weeks after that.
16:28 And this was really cool. I still don't think we were like great interviewers. You know, Bo didn't like being an interviewer, which is hilarious. He didn't look at it as like a thing where we ask questions and wait for the answers. As you can see in the first few episodes. When I explained the like 80-20 rule of interviews and podcasts to him, he didn't understand it until he watched another podcast hoping to hear stuff from the person who was being interviewed and the interviewer talked over them the whole time where he was like, I get it now because that drove me insane. I don't think we were, I think, I think this, we were getting there, you know? This was a great chat with a guy that we love who has always been.
17:15 so kind and so supportive of us from the beginning. And look at him now, man. He was just in Toy Story. What's the point? It's over for toys. The screens have won. And now the squirrel's going to eat me. That's insane.
17:28 And now we get into my picks. But like the picks, really. I think. The objective picks for our top 10 most important hard lore episodes of all time. Stephen, do something sick here. That was awesome. Thank you, Stephen. Number 10.
17:58 Hauntlor, Salem. Welcome back to Hauntlor, Stories from Tor. What's up, Bo? Hey, man. Are you scared yet? I'm good. You're about to be. We're live in Salem, Massachusetts, at God City Studios,
18:10 with legendary recording engineer and local resident, Kurt Ballo. Spooky. Scary. Now, I know what you may be. You may be thinking, what, A, what is that? B, what do you mean? Hauntler Salem was something Bo and I talked about all the time,
18:30 because it has so much. It is part Converge episode. It is part local tour of a city, part ghost hunt. So where we're going now is an old, old cemetery in Salem, where not only potential witches were buried after being burned and flound. and mollied. We wrote a whole skit. Last time we were out of town doing this kind of thing,
18:56 Colin tried to mess with me. As you'll remember from Birmingham, knocked on my door. He might be trying to mess with me again. But he also might have a tummy ache. Lord knows he gets tummy aches. So we can't be too careful, but Sean's with me to document, obviously,
19:15 his shenanigans, whatever you want to call it. This was just like such a fun day for us that we talked about it so often and made us feel so lucky to do what we do. If you have not seen this, most people I don't think have seen, like most people that watch our show have never seen this. And that's a crime to me because I think it is so fun. Hauntler Salem with Kurt Ballou at God City Studios and then all around Salem. and then it ends at our hotel in Boston. Kurt was such a trooper. He's so funny.
19:55 He's so naturally funny that it just, it was so easy and effortless to make and was like, it opened the door for what we thought the show could be. Obviously, it is not that now. It can't be that now, really, with just me over here. So this is, to me, historically, the best example that exists of hard law,
20:20 of the hard lore of our dreams, you know? In our mind, it's always October. Something's always haunted. Kurt Ballou is always there. And I get possessed by some sort of which. It's every little boy's dream, right? So thank you, Kurt. Thank you to the city of Salem for having us.
20:38 And thank you to that poll for being there that I walked into for making this episode possible. Number nine. From Angel Dust and Troulese. Trapped Under Ice Justice Trip. This is episode like seven or eight or nine or something. It was very early and it was like magnetic. Because this is a guy I've toured with a bunch now.
21:08 He took me on my first tours essentially with Trapped Under Ice when I was playing for Alpha and Omega. And then Angel Dust's first tour was with switching tongues. So this is a guy that I've looked up to for a long time who we just had this like incredible radio-esque. podcast episode that people still talk to me about to this day. The spot check with Clippa, who used to play in Trappenden Rice, is like a top
21:36 10 moment in the history of the show. Well, wonder if we can get a spot check on your on your ass right now. What does that mean? It's kind of like bathroom habits and the potential of having
21:49 Duky in your butt. He had this iconic quote on tour with Trapped Under Rice where he said, I'm tired of having shit in my ass, yo. And then everybody was like, what do you mean? Like, just wipe your ass. And then they all did a spot check where everybody was asses were clean except for his. And like, I think that is so funny to this day.
22:09 I think clip is incredible too. But this chat with Justice, I mean, he's a guy who just gets it artistically. We use so many of the same like buzzwords independently while talking about stuff that we make. And that's a guy I respect. And it's an episode I love that I remember. wrapping the Zoom call and being on on with Bo after that this would happen every week where the call would wrap the guests would leave bow and I would stay on and talk about it and when that one wrapped we were kind of just like dude that was so good is our show good um we never know you know
22:45 because it took a while for people to catch on and like we don't i don't think we ever really expected people to fully catch on or for it to get where it is today. But it was a thing that in our minds we made for our friends every week. So when we made it for our friends and we were talking to our friends, it was even more special. And this is one of those times where it is not only our friend, but my elder in a way who made all these records that I love so much. Just great stuff. I love this one. And this is one that I have not gone back and watched and now really want to. So this number nine. And if you have not heard it or seen it, I highly recommend you do all 10 of these because they're bangers. Most of them are, they're all bangers. They're literally
23:30 all bangers. That's why they're here. And they moved the needle in a major way. And this episode did move the needle in a major way. We were wondering if we could get a live action poop check right now. When you look at the sink, what's dripping out of the sink? Water, right? Because that's where water comes from. Doogie comes from your ass. When you look at your ass, you're going to be some dokey dripping out of that motherfucker. You know what I mean? Because you get to a, a bathroom and and just check right now the little wipe and see what's in there? No, because I didn't even take a shower today.
23:58 So it failed the spot check. It's a murder scene. We know there's poop in that butt. Oh, for sure. Now, speaking of moving the needle in a major way, I cannot do a list without talking about what was for years, our biggest episode of all time. And that was our day in Louisville, Kentucky, with Brian Garris,
24:24 of Knocked Loose. Now, when I talk about HeartLore Salem being the show of our dreams, obviously we can't do a ghost hunt every week. The Bryan episode was literally our pitch for what Hardlore could be as a traveling entity. Go to the city, meet with the guy, go to their favorite places, eat something, talk about their music, talk about their hometown, have a beautiful chat. And this was all of those things. Do you fart again? I didn't know. You'll know. It's all he does. What do you mean? And as a guy that we already loved. Knock loose as a band. We fully support, fully behind. And this was during a very special time for them. And it was a very special time for us. This turned into such an important
25:06 conversation. I know that like bands, Papa Roach was like, this was awesome. And this is something people still talk about to this day. Whenever I go back to Louisville and I see the sites that we visit in this, I feel like nostalgic for this beautiful thing that we made. This, is an incredibly special piece of media that was so huge for us for so long and still is they've knocked loose has been through so much in the past three years that I hope to run this back in a way I don't know if it'll be in Louisville or what the context will be
25:43 but this was so good we went to Brian's former place of employment we ate a hot brown which was nobody needs to ever do I could eat about six of them But I mean, getting two plus hours, this is a full day shoot. You know, getting a full day shoot with a band and a person in such high demand at such a high demand time is not easy to do. And it was a very generous thing of Brian to do for us. And it was a very special day.
26:12 And again, like, just barely dethroned last year for highest viewed episode. We always considered ourselves a hardcore band because of the community that we're a part of here. and that's absolutely right. And when it became such a hot topic when we started to like blow up or get bigger, I didn't mean to say blow up. No, we know what you meant. You blew it.
26:35 It's like inspiring going back and seeing clips from this episode considering how little I think I had notated for the episode. I didn't really do that all that much at the beginning, Bo didn't do it at all. Damn near ever. But now I take such extensive notes
26:53 before an episode that it it really feels like an interview where this was like a back and forth conversation, which I remember some like knock loose heads being like, let him talk. People still think, let him talk. Shut the fuck up. It's a conversation, but it's an interview too, so I get it. But also shut the fuck up, okay? Number seven.
27:14 My next pick on the top 10, my number seven pick is, again, one that I still hear about today. This is an episode people bring up to me saying they should. show it to their friends who don't like hardcore music and they argue about it and they love it. And it's gotten people into the show. This episode has gotten people into hardcore music. And that is our very first fast food tier list. Now, Denny's for me is more of a utilitarian thing. It's open.
27:45 It's open. And the season fries go. They do, but it's like desperate. It's like, I guess I'm here. I'm here because I got out voted. I'm, dude, I might do it over Carl's Jr. No, no, no. I think we have to look at this all as like the best case scenario too.
28:02 Denny's to me, worst case scenario. Right, right, right. But I'm saying it's like, oh, my God, the service is quick. Yeah. Oh, my God, they cooked it up. Oh, okay. Oh, my God, you know, we're all starving and it's 1 a.m. But we found a Denny's off a truck stop.
28:16 I would go to Checkers and Baja fresh over Denny's. No way. 100%. You would not go to Checkers over Denny's. I fucking hate it. I hate it. Well, do they let me ask you this
28:29 checkers let me ask you this boat this will determine do they have the hobbit menu in this case scenario it's best case scenario they have the hobbit menu bottom of the best dude I love that then he's lit let's put it top of the
28:50 the great fast food debate I believe it was called people are still furious about this thing when in reality it was objective truth other than maybe where Culver's is placed because it's too high because Beau was biased. And that's okay, you know. It's, it's, it's the team effort.
29:06 Food is still like the thing that unites all people who tour. And I know there's a lot of like P.B. and J. Microwave. We got a microwave in the bandwagon bands. Well, I never fucking had that privilege, all right? I'm going to Arby's because it's open and I don't have a bandwagon. wagon, okay? And I'm not going to like it, but I'm going, okay? Because it's all I have. Food on the road
29:32 is all we have sometimes. You can't sleep. You can eat. Okay? So being able to have something like this, this early on that was like this full, complete expression of our thoughts and views on fast food, I think it was a fun window into people just getting to know us, even our friends. We had a lot of friends who engaged with this episode, which was cool. Cool. And we still, to this day, I still feel like I'm just making this show for those friends who reach out and go, hey, good episode. Let's talk about this. I can't think about it as anything else or else I get stressed out. So I think of this as just this was very much just like, and kind of like an inside joke for all the people that have toured with us that you all happen to be in on. And many of you disagreed with. And but in reality, and now, you know, that got me thinking, like, what would my top five? What would my S-tier picks be today? What am I most excited about? In and out is number one. And that's literally a fact.
30:34 And arguing against that just makes you sound stupid. I understand that they don't have stuff for, they do have stuff for vegetarians. They don't have stuff for vegans. But like in and out, slander is just stupid. You sound stupid. And I'm not trying to be mean, but it's ridiculous. It is an extremely premium product at like the lowest possible price.
30:55 If I can get dinner for three for $30. And that must be factored in. Therefore, it's number one. Period. It just is, man. Except for in Texas, those are fake in and outs. And I haven't had any of the ones in like Denver or any of that shit. But the California announced that's number one in the world.
31:11 And it is what it is. You can argue with the wall. I am the wall. And you are wrong. I'm the wallress. Anyway, the fast food tier list was number seven. Very important episode for us. I know it sounds silly.
31:22 And there's 229 other than, things I can choose from, but this moved the needle big time. And it was the first tierless thing we did and we've done a ton of those cents. I should do another one. I'll do another one. All right? Let me know what you want to see. Number six. This is a huge one. Not only because a ton of people watched it, but it felt like such a beautiful monumental achievement at the time. And that was our chat and our walk around New York with Vinny Stigma. So anyway, this is the famous CBGBs. We're here at the DaFuri Studio where I recorded my first record.
32:04 And our special guest co-host, Dan Seeley, the first member of the five-timers club. Like, what is the point of doing a hardcore podcast if the goal is not to have an episode with Ignostic Front? The Godfathers of Hardcore talking about hardcore on your show. This is like benchmark hallmark number one that we kind of in our minds think is like unattainable. You know, we get, we get Sean Martin episode one because that's like the biggest thing I could think of. You know, Sean Martin, holy shit, episode one. Whereas to Sean, stigma is like, holy shit, it's stigma, you know.
32:42 And that's, that's really how we've felt about it and how I still feel about it today. Again, this episode looks so beautiful shot by the great Rob Minzer. And this was our third episode we shot that day. We started in Astoria Queens with Mike Dijon and Jojo from Outburst. We went to Brooklyn with Tom Sheehan. These are very, these boroughs are not close or short drives. This is like a nine hour day of yapping. And we finally end up in Manhattan with Vinny.
33:11 We went to Don Fury's little cellar thing. We went to C-Bs. We ate pizza at the first pizzerie in America. We went to the church from the godfather. We went to his apartment. Man, you guys are awesome. You're awesome. Thank you guys for a wonderful day over here.
33:28 This is the greatest day possible. Yeah. If you like the show and you've not seen the stigma episode, this was, I think, maybe the first time Bo and I hugged. It was either the first or second, but we, like, we were really proud of this. And rightfully so. I'm going to give you the timeline here. Let's say it was like Thursday was the 200 Nugget episode.
33:49 Friday, I played a show in Brooklyn. So I'm salty, big, sweaty, disgusting. Saturday was this big crazy day, all around New York with these incredible people. But stigma, I think, like, canonized our show in a way. You know, he literally blessed us on screen with his stories, with his presence, with his legend. And we used to come right down here.
34:10 A lot of hardcore records were right down here. They used to go like this. Yo, Vidi! And my friend Tommy lived over there on the floor. And I said, yo, up. And I still do. I still yell. He passed away, but I still yell up.
34:25 And he throws a key down. The New York hardcore sound was crap. The New York hardcore sound was right in here, right in this spot right here. I probably would have never met stigma. We're not for Hardlore. You know, and that alone is so cool to me as a lifelong fan of Gnostic Front. Dan Sealy made this happen straight up. So thank you, Dan.
34:44 Unbelievable. Dan is, of course, in the short roster of guest co-hosts already. He'll be back many, many times. We love Dan here on this program. Him saying, Vinny, let me ask you something. It's still something I think about all the time. And stigma's like, A, his comedic timing is off the charts, and he knows it. He's an entertainer, first and foremost.
35:06 But he did this thing where, while walking, we would ask hardcore music questions, and he'd be like, no, no, no, not right now. And he would change the subject. And we were like, dude, this is going to be like pulling teeth, huh? This is tough. When in reality, he knew what he was doing the whole time. He knew we were eventually going to get back to the apartment and talk all things AF, all things core, all things New York. And it was so good, man.
35:29 It felt so special. And you could only lose honor. Wow. It's true. It's true. You could only lose it. Sure, you get it somehow. It's bestowed upon you or whatever.
35:41 And you could lose it. by one stupid act. And now we're in the top five. That's right. Here we are number five. This is Bo's masterpiece. This was his brainchild, something that he literally put together from the technical perspective by himself. He felt so bad after not being able to help with the family feud set up that he was like, dude, let's do Jeopardy.
36:13 I'm going to figure out how to program this on my computer with OBS. Like the program I used to record my video for the show, the whole thing takes place in that. Stephen figured it out, made us able to do it this year. But this very first one with Martine, Brian Garris, and Zuma, which that panel also big contributors to why it was so good. He sounds furious when he terrorizes crowds and causes a few Donnybrooks, whether the crowd likes it or not. What is Martin? That's not what? That's fool, right?
36:47 He fucked up. He's not a fool name either. Who is money still up, right? I'm all right. I feel like that counts. He's not a thing, bro. He's a human. Come on.
37:04 This concept moving forward is kind of the benchmark for what our live shows should be, and probably will be going forward. And we're going to be doing a lot more of them next year. This is your warning. Hard Lord Jeopardy is ready to hit the road. Straight up. Straight up.
37:20 I joke about the questions taking me hour. Guys, this is serious? I spent an hour on this. In this year's version with David Havoc, Todd Jones, and Martine. But in reality, it's like a, it takes about a day to write. Okay? So imagine what I can do with a week. It's got to be nuts.
37:39 Hard Lord Jeopardy was something we were so proud of. It went so perfectly that. that Bo was just so proud of it and he worked so hard on it and it was so cool to see his vision come to life in this way. And like the best thing ever is providing our audience with an entertaining live thing. You know, you pay a ticket to see us talking. Why not make it the coolest possible thing? And now with the refinements we've done on the system with the buzzers, I think Bo would be so psyched about where it is and where it is going and where it will be.
38:15 and I am so grateful for the miracle that he went through of pulling this off and how much work he did on it. And it was so fun collaborating with him on the questions the first year. Again, we did a Zoom call where we wrote all of the questions the first year. And there's so much, the possibilities are just endless. As long as we don't get cease and desisted by Jeopardy, we're going to have some fun. And we're going to be doing this all over the place. And now my, my curiosity is, will Todd ever lose? Yes, Todd.
38:49 Who is fucking me? That's right. Martine was like smash hit Victor first year. Todd just wiped the floor with them this year, huh? If you haven't seen that, my God. That's what suck. So I'm racking my brain trying to think of like, who could beat Todd? Which makes me think that one day, if his reign is so tyrannical that I will have to
39:17 find a way to play myself. Harlore Jeopardy is number five. Thank you, Bo. Literally could not have done it without you. Would not have done it without you. All right, Martine, you've got $10,800. What categories are you going to do? All right.
39:33 Let's fucking do it all. Who is knocked loose? That's the one. See that anymore. Number four. The fourth most important Hardlore episode of all time. I believe was our Zoom chat with Jamie Josta of hatebreed. I got a great one. What's your McDonald's order?
40:14 Fish filet, extra tartar, or you slap another fucking slice on there. Slap another slice of cheese to go double cheese extra tartar. That way you know they got to make it fresh. I did light to Earth crisis and say that the Shamrock shakes were vegan. They're still mad about that. This was another one of those bucketless conversations, you know. He's kind of that he's the podfather of heavy music podcasts. So he comes locked and loaded with crazy shit to say, of course.
40:41 But he's also made so much music that we love. And I think we just, the chemistry was off the charts. We were talking about this stuff that we loved and knew so much about in a way that I think was refreshing for Jamie to talk about. Because he talks to people on his show every day that don't know as much about his work as we do. And a haper, he's haperid. You know, we probably wouldn't be, have them been doing this show had hate breed never started. I think people that had been fans of the show from the beginning knew how special this was for us as just lifelong hate breed guys. And a lot of people listen to this one.
41:16 I know this was one of the first, maybe the first episode to hit 100,000. But the Jasta episode was, again, one of those conversations that felt like I was listening to Howard Stern or something. And what was really weird was his like whole Patreon was in. the Zoom with us, he does that. His Patreon watches the unedited entire episode. Sometimes the recordings are like four hours long. That's crazy. Where they were just in there chatting to themselves and we were not looking at comments or anything. But that was, I remember being very fascinated by. But this was one of those episodes that exceeded our very high expectations of what the content could be with
41:56 just a guy we looked up to for a long time. And now who, now, now, now we both tour. with. But maybe it's time for a redo. What do you say, Jamie? Our number three pick. Number three on the most important hard-law episodes of all time list, I think would be Paris Mayhew from the Cromags. I must shout out once again Rod Glacial, who is a French journalist who did this insane interview with Paris 10 plus years ago. And my goal with this episode was like take this interview take Rod's incredible work and get the updated answers to them
42:35 and you know a lot of stuff in between but Paris is like the more I know I'm gonna I would love to talk to Harley on the show at some point I'll talk to John fuck it I don't care I'm vaxed so I don't know if he's
42:51 going to be down Paris seems like kind of the the objective reliable narrator decisions were made for the benefit of the band. Oftentimes decisions were just made to shut me down or try to shut me down. And why was that? It's the negotiation to agree thing that happens in a turmoil-filled relationship.
43:14 We argued about lunch. We argued about songs. We just became everything. And then it becomes at some point some kind of method of diplomacy where you begin to agree to things that you don't really care about. So you give them a win. So you can have a win on a song. Okay, give them lunch. They can have lunch.
43:35 You guys win lunch, but I'm the song. So you won lunch one day and they won Hari, Hari, Hari, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krista, Hari. They wanted to chant that shit on record. So you were never down with that. Of course not. I'm intelligence.
43:52 So it was kind of the like unspoken hero of these events that are so legendary now, finally getting to share his side of the saga. I don't want to talk about Alph Omega because I don't know if that's well, we can. We can. I mean, we can talk about anything.
44:10 There's nothing I won't talk about. It's just, you know. Like your riffs are used on that record. A lot of. I mean, not even, you can't even say a lot of riffs. Songs, entire songs. The majority of the album
44:23 was written by myself and this guy named Rob Buckley, who came into a place dot com. This was one that felt like actual journalism in the moment. This was the one where I remember having like
44:38 extensive notes and questions planned out to ask him, which was kind of unusual at the time for us to do. I probably still have my notes from it. It's long. And he was so cool about it. He was so forthright with his answers. The agros
44:55 stuff that he was able to like intertwine in was like really he did a really good job of brought it all back to agros every time in a really impressive way he was hustling man it was it was good but this was an episode where people I
45:10 people in my life that I didn't know listen to the show and maybe didn't listen to the show until this reached out in droves to be like dude the Paris episode was insane this is still like one of the things I'm most proud of just because it like you do a podcast in hopes
45:26 to have something like this on record We got cease and assisted by Harley's team twice because of this episode. You know? That means we did a good job. And again, Harley will be on the show at some point, and I'm excited to talk to him about all that stuff and get his side of the story out in public in the hard lore way, you know? But for now, Paris's side is the only side we've documented,
45:50 and it's so, it's such a fascinating time. It's such a fascinating band. It's such an objectively interesting story. I found myself constructing chord progressions because of the song Anthem by Rush. You know, the song signs of the time, it wouldn't exist if it wasn't for anthem. Oh, wow. And basically it took the intro riff to anthem. Dan, did it.
46:14 Banda. Ticket a bandit to bha-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b. And I played it backwards. Instead of going, ding-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-. I went. But I played in one. But I played him all like Glemy as opposed to Alex Ledigson. And there are songs of the times before.
46:33 And that's it, guys. That's all it is. Just play the fucking riff you like backwards. You have literally said that. So I can really only thank Paris for trusting us with that and for coming on and talking to these two guys. He had no idea who we were or what our show was. And by the end of it, we were Agro's army. And we're still chill to this day.
46:55 he was at Jeopardy this year. That was awesome. Paris Mayhew, go back and listen to this episode. If you like the Cromag's a little bit, if you're just interested in lore, this is one of the lore per minute ratios that is just off the charts. So my pick for third most important hard lore episode goes to Paris Mayhew. Final two. You ready for this? My number two pick for the second most important hard lore episode of all time is to this day, our highest viewed episode
47:31 all across the board, across all metrics, YouTube, Spotify, Instagram, TikTok, all things. Davy Havoc is the hardlore champion, basically. All these records that we're talking about right now, no one ever talked to me about these records. Like, the only time that I ever talk about these records are, you know, to misuse the word posthumously,
47:52 but was retrospectively or retroactively. Yeah. There was no press. There was no press until St. Nasara. There was an occasional fanzine, which got slightly less infrequent as time went on. But not a lot of hard-hitting journalism in those fanzines. This was a genuine miracle. It was a cold email to his management team.
48:21 It was the timing lined up so perfectly. with Silverbleeds the Black Sun. He had only done one other interview around this album, and little did he know we were all about to make history. Little did we know, we were all about to make history together with what has to be my favorite thing we've ever made. A band that Bo and I love so much, and, you know, this was Bo's intro to hardcore was AFI.
48:49 So this is like, he's sitting here with the guy that got him here, Literally. And dude, it was so special and you could just tell how much it meant to both of us. And by and like watching Davey go from uncomfortable artists doing a doing an interview because he feels he maybe it's just part of the process to four hours later, three guys who are comfortable with each other having a beautiful conversation and and creating this like landmark piece of information about this band. I mean, this is like the definitive thing you can go to as an AFI fan to learn about the band. And now with all the clips and stuff, like millions and millions and millions of people have experienced this episode in some way. And have been introduced to Hardlore in some way from it. To this day, I'll get comments on YouTube that are like, first found this from the Davey episode. Now I watch every episode.
49:47 This is by far the conversation that brought the most new eyes to the show. It was a four hours, our first four hour conversation and a two-parter. And this also was kind of the benchmark for what became the hardlore format of this kind of like deep discographical era chronological deep dive, you know? It made that that format really click with me in a way that was like the music to me always informed the conversation. but creating this kind of structure of like this is what was happening then this happened and that's why this album then came after that kind of really like restructured what hard lore is and now now it is it is it is still what i'm doing every week with every single guest that's on this show it makes it maybe hard to revisit people but i rarely do that anyway to begin with so this is that this is
50:50 his hard lore now and the Davey Havoc episode is to thank for that and I think so much of our growth over the past year again there's so much is to thank to this this Davey Havoc episode and he's a guy that is like as cool as you hope he is you know as and as cool as his has his music is and this was another post episode hug that Boenot shared where we wrap this four-hour conversation with this guy whose work were so enamored with. We can't believe it just happened. We embrace. We feel that brotherly love.
51:26 And on to the next week and repeat. Rinse and repeat. It is such a special thing for the two of us. And I hope that that shows in the conversation. I think it does. I remember working really closely hand in hand with Stephen on just like the clips and all that stuff. And I've seen this episode probably more than anybody just by like really making sure it was perfect in the process.
51:52 And Stephen did such a great job on the shoot and the grade and the lighting and everything. That I also think this was kind of another benchmark on what Hardlore is visually. And sonically with the labs, this just got like we've just been kind of trying to do this ever since, you know, is take this format we made with Davey and keep it going. Keep evolving. We never stop. We never stopped learning. stop evolving. And as Andy Williams said, we never lose the wonder.
52:22 Every week, when we record, we press stop, we walk away, we go pee after, which every time, first thing I do. Stephen and I talk about it after and we're like, that was fucking awesome. How do we what's next? How do we learn? And this is the one that
52:37 I think we learned the most from, probably. It's a beautiful two-part special. If somehow you're watching this and not that, go back and check it out. Miss murder? Yeah. Who is she? What's she like? Oh, she's figurative.
52:50 Oh, figurative. Oh, she's figurative. She's a nice figure. And finally, my number one pick. What has to be the most important hard door episode of all time is Hardlore Episode 1, the electric chair. Man, I went. back and watched this shortly after Beau passed, and it like, whooped my ass emotionally, you know? This was our proof of concept, you know? It was, we were given this time slot on the Notfest
53:34 YouTube channel to make something. We were, we were like, hey, we've toured a lot. A lot of it was together. Let's talk about some things that have happened together and separately, and eventually we'll talk to our friends and we'll talk about food and we'll talk about bands and yada, yada. Well, we're going to be sharing stories from our tours that we've been on, tours that our guests have been on, because it's just this whole world that every musician is part of. We may come off as like a little, like we're babies, like we're whining. This is the first episode.
54:07 We got to introduce the why. Why do we have a show together? And if you go back and watch this, like so much of what the show still is, is immediately in this episode. And it's the story of like how I met Bo, you know? And then the second episode, the part two, is the story of touring with Bo and like falling in love with him as one of my closest friends, you know, falling in love with this whole squadron of guys being soldered together by this brutal 32-day European tour.
54:42 And this episode is just like a window into the love, you know, that of, a, of, not only between us, but between our bands and just hardcore and the lives that we've lived. And without this episode being what it was and the chemistry that we had and how natural everything felt, there would be no show, simply put. This was such a special conversation. And it's so interesting to look back now and be like, we're already talking about that? Because there's, I mean, we can't help but repeat ourselves.
55:18 know we only have so many things to say we only have one point of view we are only ourselves but there's so much good shit in this first episode that and i i saw a big spike in views in this over the past couple months understandably but this is a the two-part special is very fun so i would go back and re-watch our two very fun specials about the way that we actually got to know each other and become the level of friends that we were. Without Chris Hudson and Notfest giving us a shot, this show never happens. You know, and the world is never introduced to Boe
55:54 in the way that they were. And without this show existing, I would not have thousands of hours of memories with my best friend to remember him by. It is the most incredible privilege I've ever experienced. I'm so grateful that this show exists. If only just for that, you know, obviously it's the best job ever making this thing. Talking about the things I love, but most importantly, it is this like permanent remembrance of my best friend.
56:28 You know, it is this shrine to him that I can, that you and I can always look back on to remember. And I'm so very grateful for that. And that, I think, is what ultimately makes it the only choice for the number one spot. And on that note, I want to highlight one more. And what I am calling the zero, the number zero spot for the most important hardlore episode of all time. And that is our return episode with Ray Capo and James Pligge as co-host. Because I didn't know what Hardlore was going to be. in a post-bow world. You know, I didn't know if I was gonna do it at all. But this thing coming together
57:17 was magical and the conversation that came out of it was fucking unbelievable. And our first guest being back, being the singer of Bo's favorite hardcore band ever, is like the most poetic, incredible thing. 1987, Break Down the Walls. You know, back then I wrote all the songs, even the music. And I don't know how. I wrote break down the walls on a piano playing one finger. Yes, that's how I wrote that song. Wow. And then I would bring it to Purcell and would just, you know, work it out.
57:49 And back then, I will say, it was sort of easy to write you the today's songs. It was a simple formula. You know, it was a simple formula. You got inspired by other bands and you just do it your way. And James being there to be the guy, he said eight words. And every time he did, I was dying laugh. I was in stitches. When he laughs in this episode, I laugh.
58:07 I had my boy Stephen there. We shot this at the fucking Masonic Hall in Detroit. People think I'm in the Illuminati now. Whatever. I am. I mean, it was this, it was a three-plus hour conversation about hardcore music with Ray Capo. You know, we barely talked about Krishna stuff at all. He's on Instagram talking about Krishna right now.
58:30 Who else is getting three-plus hours of core out of this man? So much lore. There's things that he says in this episode where he goes, and I've never talked about this. I just remembered this. And every time that happens, I sit there and I go, yes, I got it out of him. And, you know, I never talked to Ray.
58:45 Ray had no fucking idea who we were. He'd never seen the show. He'd never talked to me. He never heard any of my bands. And when that's the context, when those are the circumstances, and it turns out that good, I can't believe it.
58:59 You know? It's the opposite of the Mastodon episode where I don't know this guy. He doesn't know me. I'm not his peer. and his mind. I keep a professional. He has a terrible time doing our show, but I realize I'm a professional in the process. Ray Capo is the opposite. He ruled, youth of today is the fucking shit. They mean so much to the show. They meant so much to Bo. And a lot of circumstances lined up to make this the first
59:27 episode back. A lot of things like, a lot of weird things happened in the universe to make it happen. And yet they did happen and it did happen. And it was, to me, the perfect comeback conversation. And those are, to me, the 10 or 11 most important hard lore episodes of all time. And I'm sure many are still to come. Because there's a lot of lore left out there to uncover. More lore is ready to explore. You hear me?
01:00:03 Four? I hope this wasn't boring. And this was the first list episode back. I got some ideas for more. Because I haven't been putting you guys onto stuff, you know? You've been watching our hefty, big, meaty conversations with these incredible people. But I've been leaving you in the dark about what to listen to, right? I used to have your back once a month at least with some cool list.
01:00:30 So I'm bringing it back. We're back. Hard lore as you know it is back in all ways. Okay? Thank you so much for the support. Thank you for being here. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening.
01:00:43 And I'm curious again, once again. What do you think is the most important hard lore episode? What's your favorite episode? And what's the episode that got you into the show? Let me know below. And I will see you next week. Bye. At Capital One, we don't just use technology.
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