House of R - 'House of the Dragon' Season 2, Episode 4 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

Episode Date: July 8, 2024

It's time to turn up the heat as Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, and Joanna Robinson talk about the latest explosive episode of 'House of the Dragon'. They talk about the stunning final battle sequence, shocking deaths, as well as some incredible witchy wonder! Hosts: Chris Ryan, Mallory Rubin, Joanna Robinson Production: Jack Wilson, Chris Wohlers, Nick Kosut, Tony Perry, Bobby Gibbons, Cory McConnell, Arjuna Ramgopal, Steve Ahlman, John Richter, Aleya Zenieris, Jomi Adeniran, Jordan Bathe, Abreanna Corrales and Yvonne Wang Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by WeatherTech. Everyone knows winter is the MVP and making a mess. You don't need WeatherTech floor liners in the summer unless you hit the beach or go camping. Then you'd want a cargo liner or a road trip goes sideways, ketchup goes rogue, ice cream drips. Yeah, you'd be pretty happy about those weather tech seat protectors. So just to be clear as the mud, you're inevitably going to step into the summer. You don't need weather tech unless you plan on doing summer. Visit weathertech.com today.

This episode is brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable internet means everything for your business. And even this podcast, that's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with internet, advanced Wi-Fi, phone, TV, mobile services, plus 24-7 US-based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business. So visit Spectrum.com slash business to learn more. Restrictions apply.

Services not available in all areas. Hello and welcome to Talk the Thrones. We are here to talk about the fourth episode of the second season of House of the Dragon. I'm Chris Ryan. I am joined by Ringer Senior Staff writer Joanna Robinson and a woman who just redid her roof deck in Rook's Rest. It's Mallory Rubin. I'm glad I wrote that intro that way because it wasn't hard. Now, guess what?

Before we get started on recapping the episode, I want to talk about the fact that the Ringerverse is going to be appearing live at the Elray Theater on July. 17th. You can go to the ringer.com slash events or the El Ray website. Yes. And it's you guys, it's Midnight Boys. In addition, butt mash, all that stuff. So let's get into the fact

that these dragons just fought. And that if you are going to call an episode, Joe, a dance of dragons, let the dragons dance. Completely agree. But I have a quick question for you. Backstage before we started recording, I broke a stone statue of a dragon and then I smashed a goblet of a dragon?

Do you think that's a exposed well for the report? And then Tyrion walked into the room and knocked over a goblin and said, there's your piece to connect all of our stories. So this should be fine, right? Yeah, okay. No bad omens. This show took the leap, right now?

Like, this is incredible stuff. Is the monoculture back? Like, are people going to have to start sitting down? Are a million people watching us right now? Why don't we recap the episode? Because we have so much to talk about today. Let's do it, man. Okay, we recap in episode four, and just put yourself in my headspace here.

Imagine a guy walks in to see his therapist and he says, hey, Doc, I've been having this weird dream where my wife, who is also my niece, appears to me in her teenage form and tells me my brother didn't love me as much as her, so then I chop her head off. Also, I'm having problems at work. It's happened to all of us, right? Relatable, yeah. Relatable. It's definitely happened to Damon Targaryen who is lost in Twin Peaks trying to raise an army to fight Kristen Cole and the Green. While Damon Dreams, Reneas and Corliss have a waterside chat that is not at all foreshadowing anything about how they need to go back

to Renair's war council. And that war council happened to be chomping at the bit to get these dragons dancing. At King's Landing, Allison gets a morning after moon tea from her maister and tags on a not at all suspicious footnote asking and paraphrasing, hey, kind of random, do you think my husband really wanted my son to be king? Not to put too fine a point on it.

A recovering Allison is passive aggressive, confronted by Laris later on, is there any other way that Laris confronts people? Love him. Who happens to notice the piles of history books lying around her bedchamber? Weirdly, this was one of my favorite scenes of the episode. You've always loved to read. While Alicent nurses herself back to health, Amon is punking his brother in two different languages during a Greens cabinet meeting.

Remarkable. Agon wants to take back Harenhall from Damon, but Aiman and Kristen want to take down Crownlands castles one by one, building an army and a treasury in the process. at the aforementioned Heron Hall. Damon is not having a normal one. No. He has now met the woman from his dreams, Alice Rivers,

whose resume reads, bastard, witch, and part-time maister, which is actually... You left off Bar now. She gives Damon some Westerosi ayahuasca that seems to transport sleepy dame through time and into a meeting with Willem Blackwood. Finally, we hit the battlefield. Earlier in the episode, Sir Chris, got a scroll handed to him

right after he beheaded a guy, which is actually right when I get my correspondence. A guy. You're a darklin. Fast forward. And we see Sir Chris driving his army towards a castle called Rook's Rest. Sir Chris.

It's small, but its lord sits on Reneera's counsel, which is very important. He wants to attack it first fast in daylight, and Gawain thinks that's nuts because there'll be a bottomless spaghetti bowl for one of Reneer's dragons, and it turns out that is the point. Reneira returns to her counsel,

reveals that she met Allison and that she now knows she must engage in total war, meaning dragons. First she nominates herself to fly into battle, but it's talked down. Then just Saras pushes his chest out, but Rainer keeps him on the bench. The job of protecting Rook's rest falls to Reneas, who seems to know the outcome before she leaves the council chamber. Reneer tries to assuage Jace's anger. I like calling him Jack, but I'll call him Jace.

Yeah. By telling him about Agon's dream. Reneas flies to Rook's rest and initially seems to be turning the tide of the fight by incinerating lots of guys. That's when Kristen's scroll plan kicks in. He has his homies hit the trumpets, revealing a Amon hiding in the trees on a camouflage vagar. Unbelievable. But his brother Agon calls a hot route.

Audible. Flying over from Kings Landing and engaging with Renice as the latter two fight in the sky, Amon indiscriminately lights up both of them, sending Agon crashing to the ground on sunfire. Renice accepts the finality of remission and repeatedly attacks Kristen's army, battling with Aymn along the way.

One final attack is too many. Vagar kills Males and sends Rini's crashing to her death. On the ground, Kristen drags himself to find Agon in the woods, and once there he spots Aymond, possibly contemplating Fratricide for the second time that day. Once the Kinslayer, you know, busy day. It's not exactly a tearful moment for Aman's one eye, and we are left with the ambiguity of whether Agan lived through the fiery fall to Earth. That is the recap.

That's maybe my favorite of your recap. Thank you so much. You nailed it, buddy. Joanna, I want to talk about Amon versus Aegean. Yeah. You're watching that scene in the sky, final moments back on the ground. We can see everything. It's a broad daylight dragon pass.

It's so nice to have no murky winter felt in the cast. Why that was welcome. Yeah. And you would forgive anyone for wondering if Aymann wants his brother dead. It certainly seemed like it. Yeah. What did you think about the ambiguity of those moments? And does that deviate from what you thought you knew about them from the books?

I love the ambiguity. We've talked about this a lot about the various adaptations to the book, the changes the tweaks, but this is like a tweak that still allows for us to decide what happened here. I want a preview that we do have an interview with you and Mitchell, who plays Amen on House of Our later this week. Will he settle the great milk or milk of the poppy debate? We did ask him.

Good tease. We did ask him. To find out. But he, you know, not to get, I don't want to step on his toast too much, but he's like, the ambiguity is the point of all of this. This is, we're here to guess. And I love that. I do want to, and if you'll allow me, I will,

because it's quite short, read what happens in the book. Please do. I think that would be educational for our viewers. It's like mere sentences. Then came an answering roar. Two more winged shapes appeared. The king astride sunfire, the golden, and his brother, Amen upon Vagar.

Kristen Cole had sprung his trap, and Rainise had come snatching at the bait. Now the teeth closed around her. The crimson jaws of maylies closed around Sunfire's golden neck for a moment till Vagar fell upon them from above. All three beasts went spinning toward the ground. They struck the ground so hard that stones fell from the battlements of rook's rest half a league away. That's it.

Oh, so dragons can get up when they fall. I mean, it seems like... Depends on the extent of their injuries. And how much fire is involved, I suppose. There's a really great transition here, though, Mal, because I wanted to ask you about Kristen Cole's relationship to this plan. Okay. Because in the text that you just read, it's Kristen's plan.

It could be read as Kristen's plan. And Kristen's plan, does that extend to goading Agon to come out? You know, do they want to do a little bit of a replacement in the executive branch here? Like, what do you think is going on with Kristen and Aymond vis-a-vis Agon? I would say that they are both quite surprised. to see Agon and Sunfire arrive here. Was it Aymn going, God damn, you're an idiot? Yes, yes. Amid saying idiot and High Valerian was a real thrill.

That was wonderful. And, you know, we see from all of their perspectives, right, it's clear that Egon is not in on this. He has been shamed and embarrassed by his brother. He's all been there. He's really enjoying the strong wine. But his brother has completely embarrassed him by speaking High Valerian fluently while he can barely choke out. the word like war, right? I can't have war.

And he's then gotten this like absolutely withering annihilation and evisceration from his mother. He's sitting alone. He decides to head out. Nobody asked him to. No, it's a real NFI not fucking invited. Yeah, I would have Jasper to the mix too. Like it's the Aman with the Jasper assist plus his mom. Yes, and so I think we just have the confirmation from the idiot from Aman,

but also when Gawain is like, this was your plan to Kristen. and he just says, no, and he is absolutely panicked. They were not planning on Egon being there, which, as Joe noted from the passage, is an update for us. So you have that update of Egon going rogue, but also what that kind of connects to more broadly across the season of the poor communication. This is the plot that Kristen and Eamond were sketching out

at the beginning of the season. They were going to tell Egan about it and kind of pitch him on the side. They didn't. That was about Otto and Allison being in control. Otto's gone. Then everybody's pissed at Egan. We think back to all of the different times throughout the series that Amand has shown how little he thinks of his brother.

Think back to season one, episode nine, him just saying outright to Kristen in the streets, like, I'm the one who should be cuts off right before saying King. Yeah, right. We build toward the beginning of this season where Agon's like, my loyal dog, my best sword. And then we hear Amon saying he's just like being a puppet who's controlled by my mom and grandpa. They're not on the same page with each other in any respect. And then we have the brothel incident, right? Yeah. Remortification and humiliation.

So I think that all of that... Although he's nothing to be humiliated about, frankly. Like, you just... True. But in this family, you know, they're rarely supporting each other the way they need to. And so, like, I think the question of what is going on in Amund's mind and whether it's like an active decision to try to say, I should be king instead, I'm going to attempt to kill you right here.

Or more of, like, a passive... If you're too stupid to let me win your war for you, then if you're collateral damage, so be it, I think that's open. I don't think it's open to interpretation whether they wanted him to be there. They did not. Okay.

And also to what Mal was alluding to earlier is like he's already loosened the lid on the Kinslayer jar, right? Yeah. With Luke. He's already got that nickname, Amon Kinslayer. Yeah. Live up to the title. What's a brother, you know?

On the ground? Yeah. The sword. What's up with that? So he's sheathing it. Right? But he does... Well, he has it out. And then he's sitting when Kristen shows off.

It seems like he's like, and he's doing a little pointing. He's like, he's over there. Oh, yeah, he's got the dagger prophecy. You love to have the dagger prophecy. Do you think it was glow... Unlike my question is, it looks a little charred. Oh. Was it glowing?

We think like a little one ring action, the old inscription, visible to Eamon for a minute? You gotta show that dagger and some fire. So was that dagger his? It's not Agon's that he's picked up. It's Agon's. That's Agon's. That's the dagons.

That's the one that Aria will use. And he's just like dangling at his brother underneath a dragon. He was using it as like a laser pointer earlier in the season. Not a lot of sentimentality from that. They don't know how important that dagger is. Yeah.

The question of whether Amund was considering stabbing egg on is, that's kind of where I'm like, okay, I don't know how, if that is what he's thinking. Right. You sell that. It's one thing to say, oh, boy, we were, yeah, definitely strategizing together to try to fight against the blacks

and, oh, no, things went wrong, and oh, boy, dragonfire, you know, it happens. if you stab him and he has a stab wound in it, it's like Jorra and Dario and Vista frack. In CSI crown limb. I don't know how involved. Tougher. Tougher one to cover up once there's a stab wound.

Just saying. Jill, let's talk about Agon's dream. Another Agon. The Song of Ice and Fire, Reneer uses it as a pretext to some extent for unleashing the power of dragons. And also delivers it as like an inheritance to pacify for discrepanes.

her disgruntled son. The show presents this as reasonable, I think. And we know this vision is real from Game of Thrones. Right. But is she twisting prophecy to her own purposes, do you think? I think that's a fascinating question. I love the way they set this up. Mallory and I have been waiting for her to tell Jace the prophecy,

and especially waiting since he went up on the wall and looked over the wall and saw death, waiting on the other side of the wall. So he has some information that Reneera doesn't even have. I love the way they set this up to look a lot like how it played out in season one, episode one with Vassaris. They're standing again in front of a dragon's skull. This one's stone.

That one was Blaring the Black Dread. We hear her talking over visuals of other, like we get an egg on the conqueror drop as we see our egg on putting on the conquered armor, etc. And that was very similar to how they played it all out in season one episode one. So they were drawing these intentional parallels. And so that makes us want to think about the exact language that Vassaros was using when he told her about this, right?

He said, ambition alone is not what drove egg on the conqueror to the conquest. And he tells her everything is going on. And he says we have to unite, you know, uniting the kingdom is the most important thing, this most important part of all this. And when he's dying, Reneer is like, you name me heir, you divided the kingdom. You did this. And so I think it's interesting for all of us book readers, because this prophet, is not in the book. It's always interesting for us to think about

going down the line of Targaryen Kings before Agon and Reneer fight here and after and saying what did this lead them to do? Did they do this batching batch of the prophecy? And because it's like the oral tradition and it's like well did it get tweaked ever? Well yeah and like did it get lost? Did it get lost? Yeah, when did it get lost? So I don't think Reneira strikes me as the kind of person who's using this as an excuse to go to war

she's so reluctant to go to war. But she has talked throughout about this idea of like this is her duty. She must do this when Kristen gave the very attractive oranges and cinnamon engagement pitch on the boat. Right there across the narrow sea? Yeah, and he's just like,

he's like you chafe against this, your duty, all the stuff that you have to do. And she's like, I am the crown. I am the crown. I have to do this. And so I don't think Renair is using it as an excuse, but it is part of why she feel like she has to do this. It's kind of, go ahead. No, I think it is a great question

because, like, I agree with Joe. I think that the shift feels subtle, but then when you start to play out the string and think about the span of the story, it is impossible to not really think about what's driving your question. When you're listening to Renair in the season one finale, say to Damon, you know my oath reaches beyond

our personal ambition, the prophecy at that point is a shield, right? It's the break. It's the thing that you use is the excuse to not act rashly or violently. And what happens, even if you did everything you could to avoid getting to that moment, when the shield becomes a sword, right? When the justification of the prophecy

becomes the thing that allows you to act, the thing that you're using to say, we had no choice but to head out into the field. And I was thinking similarly about all of the different rulers who could have maybe used this, how we think about their acts now differently through this knowledge. And other characters, too, because this is the thing about prophecy

in many fantasy stories, and certainly in this fantasy world. Like, John doesn't know who he really is. Right. John never receives Egon's dream from any other character. He didn't need that to decide to go fight the White Walkers. Right. He didn't need that to go to Hartholm. Like, he didn't need that to unite the North.

He didn't need that to bring everybody together so that Aria is there at Winterfell holding that same dagger in her hand during the long night. I thought that dagger was familiar. But he is that person. He is the Song of Ice and Fire. But it's how Stannis justifies burning Sheree. The issue I was just going to bring up Nash.

Doesn't she tell Stannis about the Dance of Dragons? Yes, she does. And he's like, what's up with that? Right, and we're like, Stannis, we know you know what that is. Why is that a dance? It's just what they call it. Doesn't make much sense. I think it's poetic.

Iconic stuff from Stasas. But yeah, like someone Melisandra is telling you you're the prince that was promised. You allow yourself to play. believe that. You hear, oh, well, look what we did with Gendry's dick leeches, right? Look at the power of King's blood so you burn your own daughter. What do characters do, even if they start from a well-intentioned place when they believe the hype? And if you compound that with this like burden of duty, the Targaryans thinking that they are the true

only line of defense, it's a scary thing to contemplate no matter how well-intentioned you are. There's this line we brought up on House of Arr last week from a Feast for crows is my favorite way that George Aramard never wrote about prophecy, which is prophecy will bite your prick off every time. This nature of like it will betray you. Bying too much into a prophecy will betray

you. But it is so fascinating for us to watch this knowing that the prophecy is right. Yes. It would almost be more interesting for us to not know whether or not is true. Yeah, the irony of it which is like she she knows, like we know she's right, but no one is

right in this show. Like everybody is doing these, like, I mean, they, like, a thousands of people die in this episode. Yeah, well, like, even if you're right, even if you know what you're working toward, does it justify the things you do in the name of that, right? Like, that's... We've talked about this a little bit, this idea that, like, it... And on the one hand, this does give Reneer a justification for what she does. On the other hand, could she have a conversation with Agon and say,

okay, I don't need to be the queen, but you need to know what the prophecy is, you know? Like, why does it have to be her? It should be her. She has my vote, but like, but does it have to be her in order for the prophecy? They treat the prophecy like this kind of, um, a rare mineral. Like, you know, they can't be shared that this is like, yeah, we're, exactly. But it's like their personal wealth rather than something that would be used as the security for the realm. I know, why don't they tell everyone?

I know, I would just, I would be shouting it from the rooftops. Yeah. We're talking a lot about prophecy and the future. Let's talk a little bit about history because that's what Allison was sort of consumed by in this episode. I loved Allison Hightower History Buff trying to find all the books, all of Vassaris's books. She really needs a Kindle.

I really like that line where Agon's like, I didn't burn them, like I just put them away. Perfectly delivered. Incredible, incredible scene. What do you think she's looking for in those books? And do you think her true interest in the history is evident to Laris when they have that conversation, which I said I loved?

Yeah, it was a fantastic scene. I think, like, so many things about this episode, but what she's looking for is open to interpretation. That's part of why it's interesting. I think, like, if we consider Allison's character in the time that we have spent with her across the series, we see her drop that stone dragon, right, in this episode. It's the same stone dragon that Vesaris dropped.

We talked about what a harbinger that was at the time. She repaired it for him, and he was, like, so moved by this one little gesture of kindness that he was like, what if I marry my daughter's best friend? Right. She gave me a Lego. A rare Lego. I love a Lego, so I would probably have responded similarly. But what were they talking about during the dragon dropping scene?

That was when she was asking Viseris, like, do you believe Westeros can be another Valeria? Yeah. And so it feels very intentional that we're reminded of the way that she used to ask him about his obsession with history and those lessons. We've heard Reneira talk about the lessons from Viseras. And on the one hand, it's like, okay, some characters maybe are heating history or trying to, but on the other, Vesaris fucked up all the time. And in the moments where he was barely hanging on to life, he sat there and looked at Lionel Strong and said, like, are people going to remember me as a good king? Yeah. Right?

And so we think of Allison as like a person who sat there under the wherewood with Renera holding that book and studying and trying to learn. And that's the page that she gives Otto to take to Dragonfax. Like, it's a page out of the history books to try. That was her olive branch, right? So I think that she does want to learn and understand. She used to read to the old king. Yeah. Jeharis.

But that has always, that, like, desire, and I think genuine interest, has always been entwined for Allison with how she was deployed as a pawn in some fucked-up warped game of politics, the Game of Thrones, you might perhaps call it, if you were so inclined. And so, like, the motivation, I think that it's interesting that we see her, you referenced is already flat out ask Orwell, do you believe Vasaris wanted Agon to succeed him? But when Laris

says to her, do you now doubt his intentions? She doesn't bite. She says, like, his intention to side with him, people will believe what they want to believe. Right, which builds off that, like, it's too late or near a conclusion to last week's episode. She knows now that she misinterpreted his final words. And so I feel

like she's looking for guidance, justification? She's looking for proof one way or another, right? Because as you say, this is an oral tradition of a prophecy. I think she wants to see. If she reads the prince who was promised in a book somewhere, she's going to know even more that she fucked up. But I do think

the way she responded to Laris speaks a little bit more about how her walls are up around I was so sad watching Allison in this episode because I'm just like, hashtag get Allison a friend in season three. It's like, like, Orwell, her desperate bid for Orwell's

input when she has no relationship with him, or Laris who's like constantly spinning. I have to say, though, I feel like this show is maturing in the sense that no two scenes with the same two characters are exactly the same. Yep. And so Laris and Allison's relationship is always dependent on the circumstances. When Allison feels like she's surrounded by, like, her husband or her father or kids or whatever, like, she's a little bit, like, get out of my way, Laris. When she's alone, she's like, this is truly the only sentient person I can have a conversation with.

And he kind of understands her even if he's also a sex criminal. You know, like he gets it. You know, he'd... Yeah, and I also felt it was an incredible performance from Olivia Cook in this episode. I also had plenty of moments of feeling like these pangs for Allison and that isolation. But I don't know. You watch her in that scene with Egon. That was sickening.

Oh, no. Like, absolutely sickening. And it's not Allison's fault completely that Egon is a monster. To be clear. She's like, what are you going to do? She's like, what would you possibly say? Do you simply what is needed of you? Nothing.

What thoughts would you have? Like, these are the cycles that repeat. This is exactly what her father did to her. What would you have desired it otherwise when Otto finally said that to her in the Green Council episode last season? And she said, how could I know and had to confront the fact that she had just been this tool for him? That's what she's doing with him. Great about this show. Yeah, it's incredible.

Is that all these characters, like, we can feel a bit for Damon as he's pushed. We'll talk about that a little while. But like, that doesn't excuse. all the stuff that Damon isn't. Like, a character scene to scene can be the villain or the hero of the show. And that's... And that's why the dance in particular

is such an interesting story to tell. You know, not only because it's a family torn apart and a house fighting against itself, but because there is that gray all around. The characters, we might be inclined, not you, Green Curious, to be Team Black, but were appalled by some of the things that are happening from that faction.

And it was really wonderful in this episode to see Damon have to confront the fact that specifically the thing he did is why other houses were. Like Simon just said, oh, that, that, that's sad business. That's not a business, like the thing that you did, by the way. And we all know you did. Do you feel like you've gotten off all your takes about why that Laris and Allison scene was your favorite? Because you really loved that.

Well, I mean, first of all, like the entire setup of it with her with the hot stones on her stomach, I was going to ask about the moon tea in a second. Leaving out the Moon Tea, yeah. And then letting it larrison. Tough. There's a lot of chatter about how much Laris knows about everything in this story. And I find his watching his performance knowing that there is discourse about like how much is he orchestrating certain things. How much is he pushing people into certain roles?

Yeah. It just his performance comes alive when you're like, wow, what's this guy thinking about right now? How about that moment watching him watch Aman? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Dunk on Egon and he's like, oh. Yeah. I mark you.

Edom is like my, well, Eve Best is actually my MVP of this episode, but Matthew Edom as Laris is like so good in this episode. When he says, a rich indulgence indeed. Yeah. Do you want to talk about the moon tea a little bit? Yeah, so she takes the moon tea. Is this a rejection of Kristen? I assume he is the father.

Or is it more of her saying her bringing a child into a world on fire as a mistake? or is it an example of how men can have bastards left and right but for someone like Allison, like being pregnant and then be like, well, who's the father? Like that's not an socially acceptable position for her being. Like how did you read that decision? Because I thought brilliantly they did not explicitly say like, I need the Mooney because of X.

I love that you put that in proximity to the bastardies or the Dragon Seed storyline. That was something that had not occurred to me. But like we have seen Moon Tea, crucially a couple times in the series so far when Laris first comes to her in the garden in season one and he's working his angles and he's like oh is Renera feeling better?

For Melos to have brewed in himself. Melos brewed her some tea. I don't know what it could possibly have been for. That like tips Allison off to what Renira has lied to her about. So the moon tea is so significant there and then we saw it again towards the end of the season when she forced Diana, the serving girl, that her son had sexually assaulted to take it.

And this really horrifying scene where she's wearing the biggest seven-pointed star necklace that she has ever worn. So it speaks to her hypocrisy. I mean, yeah, she's done with Kristen Cole. I certainly think they're done after what happened at Rook's Rest. Do you think he's going to come back and she's like, great job?

I think it's over for those two. It was already we think over, but now it feels like really over. So, like, it's not just, I think, yeah, I don't want Chris and Cole's kid. Yeah. I can't be seen to be pregnant at all because I, you know, project this virtuous, like, religious. Yeah, she's the dowry. Like, whatever. Yeah.

But also just connecting that dot between her experience with Kristen and the Mooney, and Renier's experience with Kristen and the Mooney, just underlines her hypocrisy. Yeah. And again, as you said, because she knows what Lyris will do with that kind of information because she was the recipient once. Yeah. She has to be vague. Thinking, no,

confronting that now, what does it mean that he walked in and saw this? Like, what will he do with that information about me? Yeah, and so, why don't we move to the dragon fight? Okay.

Great episode of television, man. Yeah, I mean, when I'm trying to do, it's funny because we started with all these kind of more intimate scenes, I think, even like an intimate scene between Amon and his brother who's somewhere under there, presumably, of the dragon fight, but the dragon fight was extraordinary, and it did give me flashbacks to

Peak Thrones, holiday weekend. You just get the feeling like everybody's going to be watching this and then everybody's jaw is going to be on the floor. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so Malin, Game of Thrones, we got Drug on and I'm fighting above Winterfell. That was like the main... Leaving out, Ray. Why are you leaving out Ring? Why are you leaving out? He was there. He was also there. He was also there. You're like, this is like the, how they, we wound up with episode four of the final season. Dan, he kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet.

And Chris Ryan kind of forgot about Raygole. By that. Tough. It was visually a little bit murky. It's dark in Winterfell, right? Like, we haven't gotten a dragon fight like this. It was cool to see, like, this is what they wrote all of the, like,

sort of mythology and songs and poetry about. Like, seeing this happen. I have a lot of comments about it. it, but what, if you can tell me, was your favorite or heartbreaking moment of the dragon-on-dragon fight that we saw above Verk's arrest? I mean, I thought all of this was incredible. Like, the, it's, I think you bringing up the long night episode where we saw multiple dragons engaged in combat and entwined, that like tooth and claw idea that George likes

to write about makes complete and total sense. You know, it makes me think of Damon at the end of season one when he's trying to do the dragon math saying, it's no easy thing for. for a man to be a dragon slayer, but dragons can kill dragons and have. And to show us that is important. Obviously, we saw Vagar kill Luke and Arak's at the end of last season, but to see the... That wasn't a fight. That wasn't a fight, exactly, to see them, like, why they call it the dance, right?

They're entwined. There's that, like, twirling. Like, it's Vagar Maly's sort of twirling and on fire towards the ground. That's, like, the true. So there's, like, the, oh, this is what inspired the singers. But then we think to what Rini said last week, Savage Beyond All Compare. And I think that was. inescapable in this episode.

And so the thing from Thrones actually that it makes me think of most is really spoils of war. Like that shock of seeing Danny arrive on Drogon and just annihilating. Oh, and she attacks the Lannisters.

Everyone below her. And, you know, a moment like after the battle where Kristen has to, I promise, I'll answer your question, but like, I think the horror is important to talk about first. Like the guy who's like incinerating. Reaching out to a waiting. It's amazing.

Yeah. There's a moment also where he's just like flying back over everybody. and like she literally, there's nothing left for her to burn. Like, it's... The ground is scarred and on fire and bloody. She just looks so tired and just like absolutely done. The burned bodies.

So it's just like horrific the way that we first see. I think that shot of Vagar first rising in response to the Lord of the Ringsian. Light the be like the beacons. A summons is going to be like an instantly iconic shot. Amon looks like a... For me, it's like the wing tips. Not on top. And then the wind keeps beating just like above the tree line.

The wing over the tree line. And then later after the first kind of descent to the earth, the way that Vagar is walking, marching through the battlefield, it doesn't matter what's on. It's just stopping on. Right? Everything in the path is, you can't survive. And you can't survive a war like this.

Really, really, really need to be sure if we're going to do this. Exactly. Can I tell you the moment? Okay, so there's like clawing, there's biting. There's all sorts of stuff that we see like, okay, this is what we can expect from a dragon in battle. I was prepared for people to get burned. I was prepared for people to get stomped on.

I think the thing that I was like, oh, yeah, that's a thing too, was just the tonnage of dragon blood that just sort of steaming dragon blood that just spattered on people and almost it was like burning them. Yeah, absolutely. It was like, yeah, hot dragon blood on your face.

Or diet xenomorphic. So on the sunfire front and Maly's, and now I'll answer your question about the most extraordinary part, I think like what struck me most because it is horrifying, and you're like, fuck, this is going to be really thrilling to watch on Sunday nights together, and everybody's going to be like,

holy shit, I can't be late to House of the Dragon this week. This is kind of like what's in store for us on a regular basis now. This episode didn't just feel like a war movie in 56 minutes. It felt unapologetically like a fantasy story. And that's wonderful. The connection. So you see...

Between Rider and Dragon. Yes. The bond on display in a way that was so incredible. Like some of the lines from from fire and blood that I love the most are the ones that actually just ultimately say we can't understand the bond. We don't know it. We shall not pretend to any understanding of the bond between dragon and dragon riders.

Or some will claim that the bond between a dragon and dragon rider runs so deep that the beast shares his master's loves and hates. But who was the ally here and who the enemy does a riderless dragon? No friend from foe? Like the lore of what is linking that rider and that dragon is like

such a crucial part of the method of what makes this a fantasy story. And this episode embraced that in a way that I think was one of the real immense for fantasy fans at the end of Game of Thrones. Think of something like, John not saying goodbye to ghosts. She's like, oh, so you just had a full-body tremor thinking of it, and I knew what you were going to say.

It kills me. You know what you're like, kills me. And it was crushing, and it honestly still is. And so you see Rainier's go. You can do it. We can do it. go into the dragon mount, and you see Agon. I love that you're getting this emotional,

a guy is ash, inside of his own helmet. I told Chris, I was going to cry. You see Aigon. He's a piece of shit, right? You see him go to the dragon pit, and Sunfire comes out and gives him, like, a little nuzzle. A little head butt, like a cat, like giving you the side of their cheek.

A real Sean Fennessee, the Nuzzler moment. That's exactly what I thought of. I was like, we're back in the Big Pig 99 draft. The Nusler's here. the way that Reneice is like pressed against Melys's side, almost like in prayer, and Males looks back over her shoulder. And that's what happens in that final moment of her death.

Yeah, contact between Males and Renees. Beghar latches onto her jaw, and it's like holes going out in a fire. Yeah. And the last thing that Males does is look back in her rider. It was beautiful. Yeah. I thought it was cool.

I thought it was cool. No, no, I love this. It felt important. It did. I will say, I completely agree. I think the effort that they made to show the connection between Dragon and Ryder, I do wish we had seen Sunfire before this episode. This is tough.

Our guy is in rough shape. Yeah. When they went, Kristen and Amid walk up at the end, and he's just, like, heaving and torn and tattered and smoky blood. I want to shout out. The VFX department did an incredible job. I want to shout out our friend Paul Fairfield on the audio design. Oh, man. Because some of the hooting, like, wounded seagull sounds of sunfire, just incredible.

The shot, I don't know who was responsible. Like, we could give it credit to Alan Taylor who directed this episode. I'm not sure who exactly storyboards the logistics of the fight. But the shot of Reinez, her going down, this like Dr. Strange Love, Slim Pickens riding the nuke shot of her going down. Yeah, exactly. Having latched in that sound before. Dragon seatbelts. We had not seen much of them before today.

It was pretty amazing. There's this line that Runez had in season one that we've talked about a lot. It was in the very first trailer. Men would rather set the realm ablaze than see a woman ascend the Iron Throne. Like, do you think Rani's this thing out? I was right!

You know, like, is that her final thought as she goes out? Okay. I will just say that my favorite part of the battle was just how they took in all of the people of these. So you got to see what it would look like if you were just a foot soldier or just a guy on the ground. It was just like, what?

And the fuck did I sign up for? Yeah. And so that was cool. Also, we just have to say, Vagar popping up from behind Rook's Rest to get at least the last time was like... So good. That was sick. Tiny Castle, pathetic prize, as Agon said, still big enough to... That's perfect. I agree. I agree. Because it's all stupid, so of course,

it was done over the equivalent of like a convention center somewhere. You know what I mean? Like it was not like this is the crucial hinge to all of the crown lands or like this is how we get this. And that's what's so devastating about Rainis's death. I mean, we will have like, and by the way,

like she's definitely, she fell and then everything blew up. And mainly just like upside down as she falls into the curtain of the castle. So there's going to be fallout from that for sure of like Rainies is the one who went and when there were all these other candidates of who could have gone. But also, Reney's the one for so long who's like, we can't take this last step.

We can't take this last step. And she's the first one to pay the price for it. May I ask a question that I didn't prep you for, but it's just how many of the people who just fought today Amon has been in a battle before? Like been in a... Well, Amin hasn't really. I mean, he's...

He killed a kid. He killed a kid. That was bad in practice for him. Chris and Cole has seen some combat. Oh, I meant Dragon Riders. No, I know. Dragon Riders is not, like, that's an odd line that I don't know if we know how to explain when Rainis is like back into battle girl or whatever.

And neither Rainis nor Melis has been to battle. Males has been around. Yeah. Had a prior rider, Alyssa. Alyssa. Vesaris and Damon's mom. Yeah, actually. So that's a fun little tie.

I was like, looking back, I was like, do we miss some? I was pouring. over the task. I couldn't do you. Actually, I came across this line from her father, Prince Eamon, who was the heir, Jaharis's first heir, the heir to the Iron Throne. The princess had just learned she was expecting else she would have accompanied her sire on Maly's. Into battle, the prince said, as if I would ever have permitted that. So this definitely feels like a little bit of a show update, but I think one of the fun things about now going back through those stretches is going to be like, could Rainis and Maly's have been

there? Could it be another example? example of like the history is not accounting for the queen who never was and the red queen actually entering the prey. She was actually at the stepstones. We just never saw her. Who knows? Vagar, Vigar has been to battle. Yeah, I can tell. Quite a few. Vaguer. Vigar since the conquest. And obviously in season won, they're not here for this fight here at Rook's Rheast, but you know, you got to see, you always are thinking of your guy the crab feeder. You got to see foraxies in battle the stepsones. See smoke in battle the stepsos. Yeah. You forgot about the grapenter? I forgot how he went.

I think you can tell her that for Sunfire, this is. like clearly the first time out. Sunfire is a real show pony. This is really, this was, I also thought they did an amazing job of the scaling of the sizes because you see Maileys and Sunfire initially entwined and you're like, Sunfire looks so small. Maly's looks huge. And then when Vagar has Maly's that just flips right on its head and Maly's looks... When Vagar just like snatches Maly's out of the sky, there's another line from the book that says,

and I'm just going to paraphrase it, which is that if it had been Maly's versus Maly's Beagar. Yes. Against Beagar alone, she might have had some chance. She might have had some chance. But with Sunfire in the mix, it's curtains.

You get to the end of this episode and then the entire episode takes on a kind of different hint because of what happens to Rainies at the end. So let's go to the other sort of crucial scene with her. Yeah.

Which is when she's talking with Corlis and has met Alan for the first time. Yeah. Presumably for the first time. she obviously intuits, nose... And she touches his face. If that wasn't the first time

that she met and every time they run into each other and she's like, I didn't know you're so coldly. That would be weird. Radical face flames. Did you feel as though there were connection, there was a connection between these two moments? She realizes her

husband has this life beyond her. He's been distant the last couple of episodes where he's like, I have to get back on this boat. I'm not thinking about my family. I'm just thinking about myself. It turns out he has like another family pretty much. She's kind of like...

She already knew. Like, the implication was that she already knew that it wasn't like her favorite thing that Corliss has ever done. This is obviously something that he did long ago. But while they were married, in their marriage... Yeah, I think the way she was like, you didn't feel like you should mention

that he's the one... I know what he is, right? I think it was more important that you sort of picture is this like anti-Catlin Stark, right? She says, Alan's past is no fault of his. He saved his Lord's life. He should be raised up and honored, not hidden beneath the tide. So I think that's just something that, like, Corlis is going to be thinking about now that

Rainis is gone, what she said there. I think that's why that scene is there. Yeah, I'm having, I will say this is, like, my biggest note on the episode, which broadly I loved and thought was extraordinary. There's something about that Corlis or niece conversation. Like, they see each other at the council meetings. But he doesn't say anything to her when she's like, I'm going. Right, right.

She's like, they make eye contact, she leaves. Okay. I think on the one hand, that feels right. Like, sometimes in real life, people die, and you didn't end on good terms. And, like, you have to carry that forever. Corliss is going to have to carry that. If you carry the first dragon battle. Yes, maybe have, like, a moment where you say, okay, well, we have been talking a lot

about how it seems like really bad things are going to happen. I have pot pie in the microwave, so just like you can fire that up tonight if I'm not home yet. Yes, exactly. That is not the lamprey pie, though, right? We just sit to the urge indulgence. Yeah. That part I do love. Like, Corlis is going to have to carry.

that forever, that that was their, in essence, parting. To your question, though, I will just say, like, I really hope that's not the interpretation that people have. That she sacrificed herself because of not happy her life? Yeah, I don't think, like, the idea that Reignese, the queen who never was, like, a princess of House Targaryen is going to say, fuck it, I have to die now because my husband fucked another woman is like. I don't think, like, when you were asking.

I hope not what they're going for. I don't think what they're going for. When you were saying she goes after Rook's rest already knowing the outcome, that was not my sense because they think there's no other dragons. Yeah, she's like... That's the trap. Her resignation is like... They're taking these small castles. I'm gonna light a bunch of people on the murder. Yeah, I gotta go. I avoided doing it.

I mean, I killed a bunch of small folk at the coronation, but I didn't light anyone up with my dragon, right? And so she's been like really the one putting the brakes on this. So her whole like, it's got to be me, I guess, is this like moment for her of... There's no other choice. Reneer did exactly what she asked for last episode. She's like, Right.

You know, the young kids, the young bucks, the boys, they want to go to battle. Yep. We can't go to battle. Let's figure out a way to talk to Allison. Winer's like, guess what? I did it. I didn't work. I did work.

I did work. Do you like my outfit? I've just not changed out of it. I'm still wearing it. And she's like, I did exactly what Reney asked her to do. So now there's no other choice. That's, that's my read on it. I had you thought about her at the coronation not lighting everybody up.

And they shot in such a way, and it's cool because you get such an intimate perspective of the Dragon Rider's faces while they're doing it. Like, they create a reality within the episode or in the show where you can both see people's facial expressions while they are flying at. You see the joy on Agon's face when he sees him, and he's like, thank the gods. And he's like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have bullied him. Reney seems, I mean, to my eye, there's opportunities to be like, oh, I'm outnumbered. I should probably flee. Absolutely. So from the book, Prince Renice made no attempt to flee. And I think to Joe's point, a couple things. One, it's interesting that you guys are mentioning the Dragon Pit explosion. It did have a whiff of like... Finish the job. Dave Filoni makes the Clone Wars to fix the Star Wars prequels. Yeah. Like, they did a thing with Renice in the Dragon Pit in season one episode 9 that just made no sense. And they shouldn't have done. And it was the low point of season one. But it happened in the show. And so I do think then we can say Renice's...

I don't think she ever thought it was a mistake. That's the only kind of complicated thing with this. But, like, we didn't really, we haven't really seen her, like, wrestle with any kind of, like, guilt for not doing that. She genuinely stood by that corner of, like, this was not my word of start. Right, when Damon brings it up at the beginning of the season, she just brushes it off.

But I don't think what she's seeing here, like, what Joe said, they exhausted every attempt to avoid it. It's here. She just saw Amon, with reckless abandon, burn his own, brother, right? She's like, I have to do anything. This is here.

The thing I did, everything I could to avoid is here. I have to do whatever I can, even if it means my life, to try to stop. Anything I can. And this is where I, this is why I would put, not that we're doing, like, who won the episode or MVP or whatever, but like, this is where I would put Eve Best's facial expressions there. Yeah. Her resignation.

Yeah. Weiriness. So awesome. Just so incredible. And the line in the book is like, with a glad cry. I think she turned around. I like that that's not... No, that's not what this is at all.

Battlelust here. It's just sort of like, well, we're in it. I can't go back. I have to finish this. Yeah. Yeah, I thought... I think that coming out of this,

the thing that's the coolest is that despite the fact that there are so many incredible set pieces and some people talking about this dragon fight for, you know, however months, years, you'll go back and be like, man, that was so interesting.

I wonder what this character was thinking when that happened. You know, and like... Same thing for Amon where you're just like, did he decide on the spot, like, in the last second to go for his brother, too, because that would be convenient? Did Rainis decide, like, I'll die trying to stop Amon because if Amon gets out of this, like, we're all dead? Yeah, like, all that stuff is yet to be determined. And I thought, like, that was just a really, like, cool use of, like, of kind of gray area in this episode.

You know what else was a gray area? Harren Hall. Heron Hall, yeah. Here's the thing. This show now has like super dragon fights and it's awesome and it has the political aspect of people talking in rooms. And it also got its weird back. Oh, yeah.

So Damon's plot line, which I could see, broadly speaking, maybe some people are like, this is like, I don't know if I want this guy to just be tripping every episode because he's too cool. I do. Couldn't be me. Simply could not be me. I'm loving this.

This is all I want. Let's just talk about this. Incredible. Yeah. He is already kind of. slipping through time and space anyway in his dreams. Alice gives him this. I love this. You're making it sound like Slaughterhouse V. Let's go. Okay, so how does he take a sip of this drink and then wind up in the middle of a meeting?

Yes. Weren't me, if I were having incredibly disturbing visions and dreams in a clearly haunted, cursed abode, I would not drink the offered potion from the witch. From a woman who I just called a witch. Yes, I would not. From a woman who was already brewing it before I walked into the kitchen. And seems a bit cynical about my... But maybe he's carrying a lot of regret for having passed on the aged venison, and he's like, you know, that did seem like a delicious meal. I don't want to make that mistake. You got to get your protein somehow. This is, everything with Damon in this episode was incredible.

The fact that we, I'll go out of order and we'll go back to the throne room vision of Vernera. We just are like Luke in the cave on Dagaba with him pursuing. Amon. And then it's his face, right? What I loved about that too, I rewound it like so many times is that, that's, You never see his face, but it's definitely you and Mitchell because of the gates, like the way he's walking. That's definitely him, and then it turns around.

Yeah. What's in there? It's some real Star Wars stuff. Only what you take with you, Chris. That was fantastic. But what did you guys make of the fact that the throne? It's not just Young Renier again, wonderful. And we get to see, he sees Lena.

Pregnant. Yes, of pouring the drinks at the table. Great, great stuff from Sir Simon throughout the episode. But the way that he is watching. I love when it cut out of who the woman was because, like, you know, she's a perfectly lovely woman, but she is, like, buttoned up to here. So he's, like, staring at this woman.

It's not like he's leading at someone. It's just, like, this incredible stuff. Incredible stuff. But it's just like the throne room is, first of all, it's a perfect and key location for us to associate with any sort of, like, ominous vision in Game of Thrones we think of. You were, Chris, you were on it with Carth and House of the Undying.

Like, it makes us think of Danny in her throne room visions. But the throne room has just been the setting for so many crucial Damon moments in the series so far. His first glimpse, he's sitting on the throne when Reneera goes in. And Sir Haryl's like, God be good, right, the gall of it. He gives Reneera the little Valerian steel necklace in that scene. Like we both have a piece of our history. It's a perfect flip of that, right? Like she walks in, he's sitting on the throne.

Yep. And he walks down and they're speaking Valerian to each other. I was going back, don't ask me why. I was going back through and looking like at all the times they spoke Valian. in Season 1, and someone has handily put together a 20-plus minute video on YouTube of all the High Valerian in season one. It's like 80. Do you think that guy is like, good, good work here? Listen, good job. I'm glad that it exists. But like, it's 80.

It's 80, like, through her dragon tears, she did it, yeah. It's 85% Damon talking to Rineera. Yeah, that scene, the episode four, like, discussion about marriage. Yeah. But it also thinks, I mean, again, it makes this thing of Danny, like, Valerian is my mother tongue that reveal. Then we connect this to the shaming of Agon. What does it mean if you're not in touch with your own lineage and heritage like that? Think of how, like, Jace was so frustrated with himself in season one for not being able to learn Valerian well enough.

But also the throne room is, of course, where Vassaris that ousted Damon from his life and kingdom more than once. So this has been the sight of his ambition, but also his shame. And it's been the place where he has voiced aloud what it means to be a Targaryen and not been met with the thing he was seeking on the other side. And I love the idea of, because it's not actually Ramira. It's Damon's subconscious manifesting this thing. And it's also like the innocence that he is sort of like.

You created me though. Like what does it mean for that to be the thing that she voiced? Not just the thing about who Viseras loved more, but you created me. Because on the one hand, it really like speaks to Damon's arrogance, right? That there's a part of him that thinks that's true. But then the shame. Like I created you because Viserra. And Viserra said it in front of that bonfire.

to Allison. Like, I named her heir to save the realm from Damon. Yeah. And he has to confront that. I thought I kind of, for some reason, Damon and Harenhall made me think a little bit about Allison sort of alone in her chambers with her history books, where it's like, I am isolated and available to being manipulated. Yeah. And the question we have to ask ourselves, and we don't know the answer, because this is an embellishment of what happened in the books. Like, in the book, it's like, and Damon went to Harenhall and he was not very affected by his time there.

Yeah. And we're like, oh, no. don't, what is Alice's motivation here? Right. Yes. Like, how much is she pulling the strings? I say all of them, I don't know, but I say. And like, what does she want to accomplish? And her picking at, you know, like, you had

quarreling with your wife, you know, like, all of it. Right. Because you're here. Is she just trying to, like, is she team green and actively against Damon, or she's just trying to, like, oust any sort of like foreign invasion into hair and all? What are we watching Game of Thrones?

It's like every time you think it's a two-player game, it winds up being a three or four or five-player game and that there is all these other influences and all these other interests going out without knowing anything about who she is. Condal said something really fascinating about that this season would be all about the examination of Reneera and Damon's marriage. And Mali and I both were like,

how are they going to do that when Reneer and Damon are together at this point in the plot? And like the answer is, for Damon at least, through these various dreams he's processing something and Alice is challenging him on that front as well and so how is he going to be changed by this when and

if he sees Reneira again? How will this impact? Will he see Vesaris? Yeah. In a future episode. Oh yeah I mean that's we're so excited for that. Is Patty Poncadine coming back? Yeah. I really want it. In terms of how he's affected by it and what he learns from it, I don't think any lessons have taken root where would or otherwise quite yet because

when sweet little Oscar Tully shows He's just like, would you consider smothering your grand sire to death? But like a soft feather pillow. Yeah, incredible stuff. The way it's like all very touching. Your guy, Willem Blackwood, did you pick up the connection? Remember him from season one?

He mentions. He was the one who was vying for her hand. And what happened there? I don't remember. Killed the bracken. Oh, wow. Running hot. Yeah.

Beef goes back so far. They're always feuding. Great stuff. Before we go. Of course. Yeah. Just real quick shout out to our guys. Wayne Hightower, who hates to camp.

You know what I love? No one he's camping. This is already. I mean, no surprise, but Freddie. Do you know, I love. Rational. Is when they just put like a normal guy on a Game with Throne show, on the House of Dragon.

Like, he is just like, I'd like to go to the bar. I would like to listen to the new Zach Bryan record. And I do not want to sleep outside. The way that he looked when, because I don't think he hasn't, yeah, he later. But like, the way he's just like staring dazed while Chris and Cole beheads. Yeah. Lord Darkland. Like, heron hall is over there.

And he's just, like, I know that you wouldn't either roar or red. He's just got some, like, blood on his face. Yeah. He was, like, so perfectly quaffed, and I was just, like, dirty and bloody. And it's just like, I'm... I loved the way he said fucking madness. Yeah. And that was so good.

But then the line is like, no, I'm rational. He's like, are you scared? He's like, no, worse. I'm rational. And it would feel worse to be rational if you were surrounded by people who you did not think were capable of behaving rationally. Yeah, because also he gets to steal a little of Kristen Cole's glory because he's leading the vanguard at the very end.

Into the breach. And Kristen's like, I have like a concussion and many broken ribs. I should grind the kid. I'm a neurologist has pulled me from the fuel. Absolutely. Yeah, I am in concussion protocol. On the Kristen front quickly, the way that his horse's armor is covered in seven-pointed star emblems and his big, like, I'm going to try to be Aragorn for a minute here. Speech is for the seven have blessed and shielded this host with divine purpose.

Like the way that he is trying to use righteousness and piety as his cloak. I do want to give him some credit though. That's an improv, right? He's like, shit the king's here. I thought that was great. He got them to march forward. He did. He did.

Like, dragon fire above them. That was impressive. He did it. On the execution front, I love that this, thinking of this tradition and thrones of, like, the person that you were about to execute, cursing you with their final words. I thought it was absolutely chilling when Kristen said to Lord Darklin's, so Sir Stefan of Vernier's Queens Guard, his father. Very sad moment.

Jace was like, I'll let you mourn later. I need to yell at my mother. Publicly in front of all the men who have been undermining her. Real John Sonsa have your argument and private vibes from them in that stretch. But you should thank me for it when he said that to Lord Darklin about the nature of his death. And then Darklin says, yours will come in kind. It made me think of Sir Roger and Theon, right, Carr Stark, and Rob, Alistairthor, Thorn and John. This is a cleaner cut.

incredible stuff. Yeah, good. Short stroke, short swing. My last note, Kristen could maybe go to a tailor and get that stuff loosened up a little bit because I feel like he's real stiff. I don't know, man. He's like a contact hitter, right? High batting average. Chokes up a little bit? Advanced stats love them.

So you mentioned Joe earlier the idea of the dragon skull that Reneer and Jester in front of maybe being a stone, because we do see a stone. I mean, it could be. So I wanted to ask if you saw it, because this would be, to be clear, a change of canon, and so I am prepared to be wrong about this. Okay, so let's reset. So Reneera and Jays are having...

She's like, I gotta tell her about this problem. About the song of ice and fire. We can see the skull through. It looked to me like the eye socket was blown out, which made me think it was Marraxies. Oh, could be. Because Maraxies is killed at Hellhold. Both eye sockets are just one.

Just the one. Well, aim in foreshadway. Well, so the fact that this was Maraxis's death at Hellhold was the first dragon death of the conquest. felt like a real harbinger, but Marraxie's rider, Reneas. It just felt like a little signal of what was to come, but also, we've also seen Reneer, a different Reneas, we've also seen Reneer. And again, Maly's not the first

dragon death year, again, RIPA, ARAX and your sweet little wing. We mourn you still. But it felt like a little harbinger, so all of the skulls are at the Red Keep as far as we know. But I was wondering, I was chatting with our colleague, colleagues Riley and cram about this, like could they have put this skull at Dragonstone and then moved it or something elsewhere, I like the idea that that might be Maraxis.

I love it. Maybe someone in the comments will let us know. Thank you so much for watching Talk the Thrones. Speed along your inheritance. Yeah, speed along your inheritance. Again, Ringerverse, live at the LRA. go to the ringer.com slash events

or the LRA website for tickets for Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin. I'm Chris Ryan. We will be back next Sunday for episode 5. What could possibly happen next? Halfway. I know. Don't drink anything a witch gives you.