Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Perry Saturn: Moppy Was A Punishment, The Radicalz, Terri Runnels, Eddie Guerrero, Mike Bell Incident

Episode Date: September 17, 2026

Perry Saturn is a professional wrestler best known for his time in WWE, WCW, ECW and TNA. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Minneapolis, MN to discuss his new YouTube channel, being a part of The Radicalz group that made the jump from WCW to WWE, being given the Moppy storyline and who came up with the idea, the infamous match with Mike Bell, his battles with addiction after leaving WWE, getting shot outside of a strip club while helping someone, why he left WWE and much more. Please support our sponsors: SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount SUPERPOWER: Head to https://superpower.com and use code CVV at checkout for $20 off your membership. Get 100+ biomarkers tested every year, plus a personalized health plan and on-demand care team. Detect early signs of 1,000+ conditions. #superpowerpod HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 27% off sitewide! COZY EARTH: Go to https://cozyearth.com/CVV for up to 20% off! BEAM: Go to https://shopbeam.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT for up to 40% off Beam’s Dream Powder DELETEME: Use the code INSIGHT to get 20% off your DeleteMe plan at https://joindeleteme.com/INSIGHT FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh, thank you so much for doing this. And no worries. What a shirt. That is such a throwback. Roadkill. Some convention he was there. You know, me and Taz trained him. He asked me if I'd wear a shirt.

He's a legend. I knew I was doing these videos, so I put it on to help him. That's awesome. It's funny, you know. Yeah, you're a YouTuber now. Yeah, it's how crazy is that. Whatever a YouTuber is, I keep waiting to be canceled because of shit I say. Do you feel like there's a certain line you won't cross?

with what you're making on YouTube? One time, Vince was so bad at me, he told me, if I gave you a million dollars, you can keep your fucking mouth shut. It just shoots out of my mouth. And half the time,

I don't even know what I'm going to say. It just comes out. You've been doing some great stuff on YouTube. I think that your perspective, especially during that era, the attitude era, is like really interesting. Thank you.

And I'm glad, like, I didn't see any value in it at all. And they even convinced me to try because I haven't been on TV in 20 years and we'll give to shit what I have to say, you know, and he kept telling me, no, no, you know, and so I tried it out, you know, and it's easy for me. Yeah, Maven's been crushing it.

So Maven's telling you, you should do it. He puts in a lot of hard work. Sure. I half-assed and just tell you how I feel. Well, anybody watching this, we'll send them over to your YouTube channel. Hopefully you get a ton of new subscribers. Yeah, and hopefully I don't cost you any. Ah, come on.

People will be so happy to see you. I told Maven, I'd get them canceled on our video. What do you think's been the biggest surprise for you since you started YouTube? Chase, the guy who does all the editing and stuff, and he knows Stevie and so they know their stuff. And I just been going by them. And Chase told me, he goes, it's probably going to take, you know, quite a few months before we get any traction. Three days we were monetized. Wow.

And like, when I'm not making money by the truckload, but it only took three days, you know. And every time I book, there's more, like, I'm really, I don't know how to explain it, you know. I don't know what the hell is going on, really, you know. What have you been doing for work up to this point? I am on disability. So, and that's how I will survive. Now this, you, I'm off of it this month because I'm making money on this. But that's how I survived, you know, because I didn't work, you know, I couldn't work.

You know, I got, this hand is dead. I can't do anything with it. I have CTE. So if I get overworked, then I'm going to get confused. And I handle stress and stuff like that aggressively. And last thing you want is a confused, aggressive Perry walking around. So, you know, I just deal with all that. I just had both my hips replaced one in the beginning of October and one in the middle of November.

And I was in a wheelchair for like a year before. Yeah, I feel like when I saw you about a year ago, you weren't moving as well as well now. bad. And just because we all destroy our bodies, and I just put it up, kept putting it off for whatever reason, you know. Yeah. Should have done it a long time ago. I've had both my shoulders replaced, and they're really hard to do. Hips were real easy. Are you in pain as you said in now? No, I'm good now, you know, but I'm a drug addict, so I was concerned about, like, taking pain medicine, so there's no way you can have a surgery without doing it, you know. Both my shoulders, when I got them done, it was really hard to stop taking the pain medicine, you know, again.

This time, I did, I told myself I was only going to take them for a week, and that's all I did. And I, like the doctor said, I kept telling me, you can take them longer. And I said, nope, that's it. And I was uncomfortable, but I got through it, you know. I feel like you weren't on the convention scene for a while. Oh, no, no. I was a drug addict in crack houses and stuff. And the last thing I wanted was anybody I knew to see me.

you know, like on the rare occasion that somebody would recognize me because crackheads and shit aren't big wrestling badge. You know, I would just deny it because I was embarrassed. I don't know, but that tattoo is pretty undeniable. Yeah, but I got that after I was a drug addict. Not while I was wrestling, you know. People ask me to sometimes they get smart ass with me. It said, oh, why would you do that?

And I just tell them, you know, just a day of excessive stupidity, you know. I was high and thought it was a good idea. Do you remember getting this tattoo? Yeah, oh, yeah. And I remember thinking it was a good idea. And I don't regret it now. I can't change. I just don't dwell on shit I can't change.

So did you go into the tattoo shop specifically knowing you were going to get a face tattoo? Yeah. Yeah. And so I don't know what the deal was. And I had a really good tattoo guy in Atlanta that I used up, you know, because I had all this thing he did, you know. And I had just told him what I wanted. And he goes, oh, yeah, I got it. And he did it, you know.

And at the time, I thought it was cool. you know. But I was literally high. I meth 24 hours a day. And if I wasn't high, I was chasing a high. Wow. Yeah. Did you instantly realize, maybe I don't love this tattoo? It took me a long time to get clean. And meth is kind of real, like, you don't enjoy things when you stop taking it. It really messes with your endorphins. So it takes you, like, it takes a long time to get over that. So you're kind of like feelingless, you know, for a long time. And then one day I kind of got my, shit together and was fucking overweight. Could hardly walk out of a tattoo

on my face and having to answer for all them years, you know? We got to talk about that CM Punk versus Kevin Owen's match recently for the WWE title on Smackdown. It was nuts and I was lucky enough to be right there for it. And when I say right there, I mean right there behind the announced table. Second row, big thank you to Seek for the amazing tickets

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Apparently, that's how I roll. So bundle up and come along for the bumpy ride. Stream a new episode of North of North Tuesdays on CBC Gem. I feel like there's a lot of comments on your videos where it's like, I can't believe Perry Saturn is still alive. Can you believe Perry Saturn is still alive? In WCW for a while, the boys were dropping off pretty bad, right? Raven and I were, we had a Deadpool. Raven and I were one and two on everybody's list. Wow.

And I think the difference is him and I don't drink alcohol. I think that's the catalyst, because there's always cocaine and alcohol or muscle relaxers. We don't need drugs. We didn't buy the loads for, you know, and I don't know why it didn't. In fact, you know, we would do 25, 30 tabs of ecstasy in the night. Wow. I was taking probably 50 vikers in a day. And this is your whole wrestling career?

For about, and towards the end of BCW, you know, I would, at first I would only take shit after I worked. By time we left WCW, I was taking it all day long. So, because my pain was getting worse and I wasn't getting a fix, and because I was developing in a habit. the first person you lie to is yourself. Sure. And I was telling myself, you know, it's from a doctor. Though I had six doctors writing me prescription, and that didn't register, you know?

When you look back at that Perry Saturn in his prime, do you see yourself? All my energy, I don't worry about that. All right now more than anything, I want to be the person my grandson thinks I am. And that's what I go for, you know. Because I've done it. I fucked up a million times. I can't change it. But I had a really good life, man. And I really enjoyed myself, too. So where'd that self-awareness come from that you have now? The idea of like, yeah, I messed up in the past, but I want to be the best version of myself now. I was a drug addict and I was lying to myself constantly and I had to stop doing that.

My head, I'm like mental irregular, you know, like shit down, when I knew I had to quit doing drugs, I just quit doing them. I didn't go to rehab or anything. I knew I shouldn't do them anymore, so I didn't do them. Was there a certain day when you woke up and you said, this is it? Yeah, I was going to commit suicide. I was homeless for a couple of years. I was in Iowa, out in the winter, and I was going to commit suicide and take a bunch of drugs in OD. And I had my dog with me that I had a long time. And she'd come over and she laid her head on my lap.

And I thought, I can't commit. She needs me. And somewhere in there, I figured out if I can hang on for her, maybe I can get my shit together for me. Yeah. Around when was that? 2010 is when I got clean. Wow.

And before that I got cleaned a few times, but you always relapsed, or most people relapse. But every time you relapsed, it's not as good. And you romanticized and you only remember good shit, right? Sure. So, like, Raven and I part, we were on the edge of death probably every night. It sounds like a ridiculous number, but we were taking 25, 30 tabs of ecstasy in the night. It's just stupid shit like that.

By the time I was in WWF, my drug use was so bad, and I wore trunks, so I couldn't have tracks. I used to take my injections under my tongue. Wow. So there's something wrong with you if you're doing that. When do you feel like it really started to become a downward spiral? I'm not blaming Dean for it, but Dean became an agent, and then now I was traveling by myself. And I just, now, now I would try to told the line because I respected Dean, and I won't want him to book, I keep hitting the mic, I'm sorry.

And I wouldn't want Dean to look at me like that. Like, his opinion really matters to me. So, and then he got, and I was just by myself, and it's just no good. I was so bad that I had to constantly write down where I was at because I'd wake up half-ass sober and have no idea where I was at or anything. But look where you're at now. Like you're in such a better place in your life.

Yeah, but I don't worry about the bad place. I can't change it, you know. And I'm so dumb I would have probably done it anyways. I'm very stubborn. When you were growing up was wrestling the goal for you? I had an extremely abusive power. And really fucked up. And one day I seen wrestling on TV, I had no idea what it was.

And all I could think to myself was, wow, I bet nobody touches these guys if they don't want to be. And that's what got me wanting to do it. I didn't even know what it was, you know. So where did it go from there? How did you find a wrestling school when you got a little old? At 15, I got convicted for aggravated robbery, and I went to a detention facility to,

I'm supposed to be to him 21. Back then, you at 17, but you joined the Army, and I could get out. So that's what I did. Sorry, I got to try them out. And once I got, I did my four years, and when I got out, I said, I'm going to try it, you know, and just see what happens. And I wrote Bill Affner because of the monthly magazines, you know. Remember before the national TV, it was all territories.

And he just sent me, send a letter back to me, and on the bottom, he wrote Tri-Kowalskis, and he put the number down on it. Wow. Do you feel like there was a big lesson or life lesson that being in the Army taught you? Yeah, it's a big part of my, that's one of the reasons why my brain works the way I learned that if I have to do something, it has to be done. And it's just going to get done, you know. So that's why I didn't go to rehab. And I kept doing drugs because I wasn't ready to quit. And then once I was, that was it.

I woke up and didn't do it and haven't done them. a bunch of times really wanted to out of boredom and shit, but I know that's not going to be right for me, you know. I learned that you lie to yourself all the time, you know, and like my big deal was prescription pills, so I don't have a problem. I'm getting them from the doctor, you know. And sooner or later you become a liar and a thief because all drug addicts are.

You've got to stay away from your friends and family because you don't want them to see. It's just you will isolate yourself, you know. And it just keeps going and going, you know. I was kind of, I remember thinking when I was wrestling and shit, I didn't know how people became home was. You know, I'm thinking that doesn't happen overnight. That kind of does.

It didn't happen for you? Yeah. Yeah. It's just like I was on TV wrestling with WWE. And eight months later or something, I was living on the street, lost my house, everything, and just, uh, and nothing that happened to me is an,

excuse for what I did. That was all on me, just not being an idiot, you know. How did it happen so quickly after leaving WWA? I was a huge drug addict. I was taking large amounts of drugs, and wrestling helped me stay a little grounded. Now I had free time and drugs and wasn't making money, so I had to come up with ways to get drugs and stuff like that, you know. And then when I got shot, I started to feel sorry for myself and start telling myself I didn't deserve it, which just made it easier for me to strip farther apart, you know? So I want to ask you about that incident.

So 2004, you see this woman getting attacked by two men. There's a strip club. I can't remember the name of it. And right next door was the hotel, and the guy I get drugs from is there. So I'm going to the hotel to get high. And I hear somebody screaming, and my dumb ass, I think it's too strippers fighting. So I figured I'm going to check this out. and I just stumbled on it.

It lasted a few seconds, and I didn't even know I got shot. Like, I thought the guy hit me, not because I'm tough, but because I was in shock, you know? Where'd you get shot? I got in the neck. Somewhere in here,

and right here, you can feel the whole, my collarbone's gone because it shot, where I got shot right here. And I didn't realize it. Like, and the police actually had to argue with me to get me in the ambulance because I didn't think I needed to go.

And just, just because you're going shocked, you know. Yeah. And my memory is very unclear, and I kind of, I remember, like, I know what happened, but it's not a clear picture in my mind, you know.

Because I, like I said, I remember telling the cops, I thought he punched me in the neck, and I kept going, no, no, I just got hit because I got shot in the shoulder, and my body spun, and I thought,

oh, we're fighting, and then I got shot in the neck, and my eyes watered, and my legs buckled, I thought, oh, fuck, I'm going to get my ass kicked. I better to get my shit together, you know. And then the cops were there, and there's a big, one guy ran and got away, never got caught. The other guy went to the jail.

And while he was in jail, got killed. How much did your life change after that? Now it made my life so much better. Then I thought it ruined it. I went from, I had a nice house, nice car, you know, and was just getting ready to start wrestling. And again, I was just recovering from knee surgery. And I went from that to homeless.

I didn't want anybody to know who I was, you know. And it's very embarrassing. It just happened so fast. And once it starts happening, you get where you don't care. Fuck it, this is it. This is my life. How were you able to look back on it now and say it's a great thing that happened to you? I'm very happy with the person I am today.

I love that. I was a bit of a prick at times because I'm, very determined. I'm set my ways. If I didn't like something you did, I had no problem saying it. Now I'm a little more easy going. And I was an absentee father because I was on the road wrestling. My grandson, I was there, and I helped raise him, you know, and he adores me. And so nothing's more important than his opinion of me, you know, so then that's just stuff like that, I don't know. And I just, I'm better straight. Not sober, I'm better sober, so I just know that, you know.

How old's your grandson? 17 now. It seems like just yesterday we were doing stuff watching the Lion King 20 times in a row or something. Yeah. So it's just so cool. And it just went by real fast. And he lived with me and my wife for about 12 years.

So him and I are really close. And I didn't have a father grown up. And I wasn't a good father to my kids because I was gone. the time. But I had an idea of what I thought a father should be, and I was like that for him, you know? Yeah. And we just like, we got really, like, he's able to emotionally connect with people because of the time he spent with me. I love that. It's just very, very lucky with that. Kids love me. I don't know what the deal is. That's why I had to do all the maker-to-the-wish stuff and stuff, because they just loved me. And so he just, he would want to be around me and no one else

and stuff, and it just, you know, developed like that. One day we were playing Call of Duty. I'm trying to teach him how we could act in a unit, you know, and kill the zombies. And he looks at me and goes, Papa, I'd love me to the moon and the stars and back. One of the best days of my life. Yeah, that's great.

Right? So I'm never going to do anything to screw that up. Yeah. That determination that you're talking about, that idea of like I'm going to find a way to do it no matter what, Is that how you'd explain how jacked you got? Like, you must have been really dedicated to that. Yeah.

The Rangers taught me that you have to complete the task, and that's it. There's no other option. So if I know I have to do something, just how my head works, I just know I have to do it. And I don't even think, I never once will think it can't be done or anything. I just know I have to do it. What did your workouts look like back then? I did, on Mondays, I did chest and tries, Tuesday's back and by, Wednesday's legs, Thursday's shoulders, and then I'd start out over again.

I worked out six days a week. The bro split, push, pull, leg, shoulders. Yeah, and I was on the gas most of my career, but that doesn't mean I didn't have to work out hard. I was fanatical. No matter how much partying I did, I never missed the gym. and just because I knew I had to do it because I know that I'm 5'9 and I can't be 5 foot 9 and be skinny, you know?

Yeah, I think that people think just because you took steroids, that's it, you inject this magic potion. I thought that. Yeah? But you still have to work so hard, right? Yeah, I worked as hard as I could, and it just made my results better.

So I had great, and I was also on growth hormone once I got their WCW. because now I'm making money, you know, where I could afford it. And I did all kinds of prescription drugs and ecstasy. But I wasn't a cocaine guy or any, or I did meth waiter, you know, and I never drank. So then drugs are kind of easier to keep your diet and stuff. What do you think is the first real break you got in wrestling?

Oh, I have a bunch of close ones, you know. I tried out for WWE a bunch of times. Me and John did. And Pauli was probably my best break. We were finishing up with Tenruh, and we were supposed to go work in Puerto Rico for Carlos. And Jamie Dundee told me that they're going to deduct our airfare out of our pay. I thought that was unacceptable.

So I called Carlos and asked them, and he said, yeah. And I go, okay, well, we're not coming. And he goes, well, I've been advertising you guys on TV for weeks. I go, well, you're going to have to pay for our money. our hairfare if you want us there. And then so he wouldn't bring us in and we were finished off in Japan. We didn't know what we're going to do.

We've already worked in Memphis, you know, for like 11 months. And then they got to deal with ECW. When you went to WCW, did you feel like there was a ceiling there? Like, what made it so that you needed to leave? We all felt that way and looking, like watching matches and stuff now.

We were wrong with a lot of the things. Every now and then, Eric would tell them that you have to talk about this. And they wouldn't talk about the guys in the ring, they'd talk about this. To us, that was happening all the time. If Eric, when I got fired, I'd have never left. I loved working with Eric. Eric really liked me and always took care of me, you know?

But we worked all the time. The Midcard guys did everything. In the beginning of the month, first day of the month, they give you your book and sheet for the month. I'm on the road the entire month. So I have no idea when I'm going home. I have to wait to the next one's book and sheet. And then, like, they'd want to try to elevate one of us

and the group of guys would say, well, the house shows are down. These guys can't draw. Well, no, the house shows aren't drawing because you guys aren't making the house shows. You're the main event guys. So shit like that was frustrating. But our problem when we left was because Benoit and Sullivan, you know,

and we were all getting residual heat for that. So when the Radicals happens in WWE, how quickly did that come together? Well, that happened so fucking fast. I had an internet guy, Jeff, and he called Pritchard to see if Bob they were interested. While that was going on, Bill Bush had this meeting telling us that anybody who doesn't want to be here, they will release them. So we were saying we weren't released, and they were trying to talk us out of it, you know? and Pritcher called me back like, you know, an hour later and said, we want you in Connecticut now.

And I'm like, okay, well, we got to get out of the building here first, you know. And what was going on? One of the things going on, Vince Ruso was the Booker. And he'd book and have us going over. Mike Graham or Kevin Sullivan would take the match and they'd have us do the job. We'd get to the back and Vince would go, what are you guys doing? Why? So we said, okay, we don't want to work with Sullivan or Mike Graham anymore.

Mike was like, you know the cartoon, Boghorn, Leghorn? Yeah. The little chicken hawk that wants to fight everybody, that's Mike Graham, and they'd get him drunk in the middle of the day. So he comes up to me and pulls a knife out on me on Cincinnati, Ohio. He says he's going to kill us all, and, you know, motherfuckers, this and that, never drew a dime. I called the police and followed the police report. Now we take that and go to Time Warner's Human Resources Department. And that was it.

You know, Bill Bush tried to talk us out. out of it and I got worked up and started yelling at him and shit and uh to where he but he wasn't going to talk us out of it and once the police came to the building the pucking to interview my graham bill both said okay you guys got to go this is the like the absolute height of the monday night wars absolutely so you guys left before wcw went under did you see the writing on the wall um we had great contracts with w w w because vince knew that was going to do it. They, it wasn't, you know, like, uh, we asked for a ton of shit because that's what you do.

We didn't get first class airfare. It's the only thing we didn't get. You got everything else you're asking. Everything else. Like, what are you talking about? Um, what do you call, uh, I own all my intellectual properties. Every 30 days, they can, uh, release you from, uh, your contract, they couldn't release us.

My money was guaranteed every penny. No matter, if you fired me today, you still have to pay me all my money, all that shit. And he didn't even bat an eye at it. The only thing they'd balked at was the first class airfare. But we got wide class tickets. Do you know what that is? It's a full fair ticket that costs about $45 to upgrade. So they gave us them, but they couldn't give us first class

because they didn't want to set the precedent. Was it the idea that they just wanted to take these four guys from WCW? I think that really was like the final nail, too, right? Sure. And that was all because Chris Menlo did the wrong thing and stole Kevin Sullivan's wife. And Kevin never got over it, and I'm not saying he should have, but he took it out on everyone, you know. So did all four of you have the same type of contract, or were you getting different?

Oh, no, we went in as a group. It was supposed to be us four, Shane Douglas, Conan, and Mysterio. And Bruce Pritcher told me that they weren't interested in Shane, Conan, or Mysterio, but they'd take them if they had to. So we told Conan and Ray, Oscar, and of course they don't want to go under that stipulation. Yeah. Shane, we fucked Shane. We really tried not to, but Shane just, you know, kept trying to talk us in the stand and we weren't. And it was like they wanted us in Connecticut immediately. So we figured we'll go to Connecticut and see what we're going to Connecticut and see what they have to offer and tell Shane afterwards. So, and we shouldn't have done that. That was shitty. I don't, we didn't feel like we had a choice, right?

And didn't, like, I thought we'd go there and talk and hear from him. a month or whatever. Oh, no, it was that we ironed everything out right away they wanted to do. And I told this, I go, well, we don't even have our releases yet. My lawyer says we're getting on, but technically we're in a contract. Because, yeah, well, we won't make this official until you're released. So technically, that's tampering, you know. So from the time you got officially released, to the time we saw you on TV with the New Age Outlaws.

It would have been a week earlier, but that raw got canceled because of a blizzard. We were going to be on the day after the pay-per-view that Benoit won the title on. Oh, wow. Yeah, we were sitting and catering eating, and I just got done screaming at Bill Bush and stuff. And his feelings was hurt, but fuck him. He was like, he tried to double-talk us and shit, and I was all worked up because Mike Graham just pulled a knife on me, you know? And he got mad, and he comes up to us with the police. And he goes, okay, I tell you, I want you guys to leave.

And I go, well, I'm eating, Bill. Can I finish eating? He goes, no, I want you to leave now. And we've been. Wow. So they bring the radicals in as a package. How close were you with Dean and Chris and Eddie? For a couple years now, I've worked with these guys all the time,

went out with them, traveled. Them guys were friends a lot longer than I was their friend. But we all respected each other and stuff. They were starting to do the horseman angle with Dean and Chris and Arne and Flair. Arne couldn't work anymore. Then guys went to Flair without telling me and wanted me to be the importer. And then so we started to do that.

And so we're getting close, you know. And very similar personalities. Some of, like me and Benoit was more similar. Dean's really mellow and shit. But Dean is so professional that, like, if I wanted to be a pro wrestler, a real professional, I'd watch him and do what he did, you know. And Eddie and I'd work over 200 times, I think, you know.

You had a great fashion sense. and when you make your WWE debut, you have very clearly curated this outfit. Talk to me about it. We had to stop wearing it because Rock complained because he wore similar shirts. Wow. And we're new.

Vince hated my hat. I loved my hat. And he asked me... Why do you hate your hat? I don't know. He hated it. He asked me not to wear it. Just bucking around, didn't think he'd take it serious.

I go, well, Vince, you know, I'm a Muslim, and you're infringing on my religious rights. Like six weeks later, come up to me, go, you fucking liar, you're not a Muslim. I just said a goopin around and it got me wearing. I loved that hat. I would search all over in Brooklyn and shit looking for that hat. And New Jack finally found it for me. So were you the type of guy that you'd go to a new city and you'd just check out the clothing stores there? No, we, a mall in Atlanta had all that stuff. That's why I got all my stuff. For years in WCW, I traveled

with Sonny, because Eric Bay beat me, and it was obviously that I might not make shows, so he figured if he put me with Sonny. Someone reliable. And Sonny would drag me to malls all the time. When I wore the dress, Sunny would take me to the malls to get the dress, too. We'd go to them forever 21 stores. Sure. Because after the pay-per-view, I worked with Scott Steiner, and the dress they gave me was like

an old woman's dress. And I thought, and Sonny goes, we'll go to the mall. tomorrow and yeah I go in there I try them on and the ones I ripped I just buy you know and yeah and we did that every week for TV why did that why did wearing a dress become your gimmick uh jericho's going to w w Eric's piss tells him he has two months left and he tells him he's taken off a nitro he's not going to be on nitro anymore so I get Eric and I tell him well that's really dumb Eric I go how about you let me work with him for the next two months and he puts me over and I get something out of it.

So he goes, okay, we'll do it one month. And at the pay-per-view, you beat him, and he's not going to be on TV anymore. And then we come up with the idea something has to happen, be on the line for me, too. And where the dress angle come in, but I'm supposed to go over on Chris. We get to the pay-review,

and Eric's hunting. He's not at the pay-review. And Nash goes, what are we doing? And I go, I go, Eric wants me up, and he goes, P, I really like to see you in a dress. And I go, I have no problem doing that. So Eric comes to the TV the next day and we didn't do what he wanted. But he still let us finish.

Chris got two pay-per-views out of that just because I've known him forever with friends, you know, and he always take care of each other. Yeah. Yeah, but the idea was he was supposed to lose a match and not be allowed on Nitro. And it is dumb, right, because I could get something out of it or somebody could. Yeah. But Eric was emotional, right? If he got hotter or something, you knew it.

Did you like working for Eric? Love working for Eric. Did you like working for Vince Rousseau? I didn't like what his ideas for me, but he's just in New York I find to work for. Eric and I didn't get along at first because Eric had a bad habit if he lost interest. He just turned and walk away from you

right in the middle of a sentence. I'm not putting up with that shit. I don't care. He goes, you know, I'm your fucking boss. And I go, you know, I'm a man and you're not just going to turn your back on me like that. And he goes, you know what, you're all right. And from then on, and Eric, like, during that time, I almost never did the job, which isn't as important as people think.

But, like, Eric screamed at Terry Taylor one time because he had me doing the job, and he's going, I didn't I fucking tell you, Perry doesn't do the job. He just likes me, you know, he's taking care of me. The flock that broken up because Eric's seen more money in me than Raven. And he just didn't get the Raven character, you know. Really? That's interesting. I don't get any of it. That's one of my favorite characters. And Scotty and I are such good friends.

I love doing that. That's the best time on my life. Not my career, my life. That time, me and Raven on the road together, you know, 300 days out of the year and just awesome, you know. And our personalities are the perfect kind of actresses it where they fit together good, you know? Yeah.

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This season, there's only one network you need to believe in. Believe in the game. Believe Network. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. I feel like your elbow drop doesn't get talked about nearly enough. It is beautiful. I don't know. I could just have control of my body, I guess.

Like that Death Valley driver, I never heard anyone on that. And Sonny, I gave it to him once, and his wife called Sonny had to go to the hospital because I could control what I did with my body. I don't like it. But I did work hard at everything. Every day I would get in the ring that we had TV and I tried to learn something. If all my television matches and stuff, I did at least one move that I never did, did before because I wanted to be, you know, show that I was well-rounded, you know.

So I worked hard at it. That elbow is so clean. The best one I ever did, I gave it to Eddie in his back and when I won the European title. And that was hard. I'd never done that before. He was crawling. And I didn't want to hurt him. But, yeah, I just got lucky.

I don't know what I did to do. It Shane McMahon started copying me because he said that I crunched my body in the air. And that's how it looked at high. And I go, okay, I don't know what I do. Yeah. But yeah. So, and when we were the revolution, our saying was out with evolution and with revolution.

Slim Jim stopped using macho man. He said they stopped using them because out with evolution and with revolution made him look old. And he didn't say this. He's screaming on the top of his lungs, profanities as he's walking up to the four of us. Wow. Me and Benoit go, okay, that's it. We're going to jump on him now.

Fucking me, he's going to scream at us. And Dean's dad knew his dad. So Dean and him walked off together. I could hear him screaming at Dean for 20 minutes, and he come back, and that was the end of it. I'm very competent. I won't ever bother you, but you're not bothering me. So I started doing the elbow drop there just to fuck with him.

Wow. He was a nut, man. Like, I said bondage in a promo once, and he told me that you can't. He just started yelling at me like, with the boss, you know, you can't say that. And I go out of it. And I go, but it's okay to grab my spouse and slam her around.

That's okay to show on TV, you know. But I said bondage. Jeez. You know, I think he just was nuts. Like, it was way worse to him than anyone else. Do you have any major regrets about your wrestling career? Yeah, my career ended maybe a decade too soon because I could Bing it off of drugs.

Somewhere when we went to the WWE, I rubbed somebody the wrong way too because that's why I get bullshit things. Like I got the reputation of roughen up the enhancement guys. What nobody hears is before every match, Jerry Briscoll would grab the fucking guy and tell him, hey, you know, Perry's really old school. You got to go up there and make him work for it.

No, sell some of this stuff. No, then I'm going to go berserk. I'd come through the back and they'd be laughing their asses off and shit well now the boys are you know like Paul London

he was when he had to work with me he was worried because now I'm beating everyone up oh but Paul Paul London talks about that match he loves that match yeah but he was worried about Kevin Kelly's coach

asked me if I could help him look good that he'd like him to get more work you know and we should all stick together and help each other out, right? Because at one time, some veteran helped me out, right? So I own that. But I knew he was nervous.

So I didn't smart him up about that. I got the nervous. But like the mic belting was my fault. That hiptox put me on my head. I seen a flash of light. And the next thing I knew, he was in the corner and I was kneeing him. I was blanked out through all that. But it doesn't matter.

I was wrong. You can't do that. Did you realize you were wrong in that moment, or did it take you a while to get to that? I could start to hear the people. The noise was starting to come in. That's how odd I was. And I thought, boy, Perry, you're fucking better calm down. And where I got all the heat, I shit-tanned him. Yeah. You put your hand on the back of their head, and they do everything. I did not throw him out of the ring, but he might have been confused, dazed and shit.

From me and he and him, I just didn't know that. and he went straight down, you know. And I didn't see that. I was on the other side of the ring, so I had no idea. And then ramming him in the chairs. Stairs, I did that every match. My hands hit the stairs more than you do, you know. Terry knew, and Terry started talking to me,

making sure I was calming down, you know. And I was fine once, like, once I realized what I was doing, and I didn't mean to do it, but it doesn't matter. You can't do that, and I was wrong. Was it just? That's a regret I had, too, in my career. because he was working for guys in New York and stuff, and they were always chanting my name and something

in his hard for him the work. I'd love to go on in and put him over, just if that would have helped because, you know, and Vince was pretty hot with me, you know, because I wouldn't say that it wouldn't happen again because I kept going, Vince, I didn't mean it to happen this time. As soon as I knew what was happening, I stopped, you know, and just because I didn't feel I could tell him,

oh, that will never happen again, you know. Was it just anger? Like, you were mad that he dropped you in your head. I'm a drug addict losing control of my addiction. I got my bell rang and I overreacted. So, and I was wrong, you know, and I've had a handful of problems over the years. But I was trained by Tilla Kowalski. Half of his matches were shoots.

Then the old time, like him and Bruno hated each other, him and Anoki hated each other. I've heard him tell me a million times, Goddeme it, Perry, you can't let them test you, or they'll never stop. So that's in my mind. I got into a fist like with Bam Bam over a finish because I kept hearing Kawalski go, God don't get them pest you. You know, so I don't think I overreacted there with Bam Bam

because him and I hated each other. When you got to the back after that Mike Belmont. Oh, yeah, they were hot. It was hot. Briscoll, oh, no, Tom Pritchard was the agent. And he was very, he baby faced me the heat, you know. Perry, are you okay? okay we need to make sure he's okay you know I didn't know he landed on his head like that so and then

Vince the next day my neck was fucked up I had to go to the doctor to get my neck look back but I wasn't hurt and that doesn't give me the right to do what I did and Vince told me he was okay fair you have to tell me right now that you're never going to do that again and I go Vince I didn't do it on purpose this time so I can't tell you that because I didn't mean to do it you know and he was getting hot at me and I'm just not going to tell him something but I don't believe. If I tell him something, he's going to know it's what I believe. And otherwise, I'm not going to say it, you know, because that's important to me. So did everything that happened after that in WWE, was that a punishment for that Mike Bell?

The Monty thing was. But I'll tell you one thing that happened after that, that the kid is so lucky that happened after Mike Bell. I got in the ring, Brian Gable was his name. We got in the ring, his family's there and stuff. So he decides he needs to win the match. And he starts shooting on me. If Mike Bell wouldn't happen, he'd have gone to the hospital. And I had to literally make him tap. He wouldn't. Then we get to the back and Vince is fucking hot.

And Vince goes, what are you doing? And the kid tells Vince, hey, my friends and family are out there. I had to win. And then I tell him, I go, you're lucky Mike Bell happened before you. And I turn to walk away and he starts cutting a promo on me. And Vince had Hepner throw him. out of the building. So where did Moppy come from? My excuse said,

why couldn't tell them I wouldn't do it anymore. This is because I landed on my fucking head and I had no idea of what I was doing. A week later, I'm doing Moppy. How'd they pitch that to you? They didn't pitch it to me. They had Pauley pitch it to me, because I close with Pauley. And I'm pretty sure they assumed I was going to quit. And I was going to. Paulie's explaining like I'm the billed idiot you know and I go Paulie I'm not going to do that I go that I'm gonna look like a fucking idiot I go no

and he goes pair you have no choice you have to do it and I go I can't do it I'll be fucked he goes you'll be fucked if you don't do it I go so I'm fucked either way then so I'll just go home he goes you won't be fucked if you get it over so and that's I trusted Paul Lee and they never gave me any direction or anything they They just, here's the, you know, here's the mob, and do whatever they wanted me. They call them Saturnisms. I'm very serious, especially back then, very serious.

Every day I wanted to quit and every day I thought about it, but I kept hearing policy, not if you get it over. I was, no direction at all. I come up with all that shit on my own. The island, the movie, where the guy was on the island, my castaway. Castaway, yeah. That's what I made Moppy into the ball.

Wilson. Yeah, that's all. And I did that just by chance, you know, because they never told me nothing. How did you get your welcome over? That was, Vince, I told me to say it, so I said it. I had no idea why I was saying it. He told the Acolytes to beat me up.

I'm very good friends with the Acolytes. So Bradshaw comes up to me, me, hey, Vince wants us to rough you up. And I go, okay, well, don't get because of me, do what you guys got to do? He goes, we're not roughing me up. I'm just telling you. And they gave me a bunch of power bombs, but that's a bullshit move.

Like what they did, the public enemy, that's roughing them up. And that's what Vince wanted. But we're a friend, you know. Sure. So. Do you remember any of the phrases that you had, any of these Saturnisms? That's the only thing they gave me. They'd show up with these things and want me to say them.

And in the beginning, they were really just me saying something. And I seen a mentally challenged in some movie. And he had this cadence the way he talked. And I just copied him. Yeah, you were saying such, like, nonsensical things. Made no sense at all. But in Vince's defense, Vince Roussell started trying to do that shit with me in WCW. Some of them stupid things I did there, you know.

And I would do something. And the other guys in the Revolution would be like, what are you talking about? Like, I said something about dinosaurs and shingles. You know dinosaurs ain't still alive? And I go, yeah, but what if they were? And I, but Vince was new boss. He promised he's going to take care of us to where Sullivan wasn't.

So I had to give him that opportunity, right? I didn't want to do it. But I gave the same thing, basically, you know. So were they feeding you these lines? Like there's one. Oh, yeah, they show up with the lines. lines are, they give me scripts and I don't do scripts. I hit the bullet points.

Yeah. But I'd memorize the line. So, like, I always come across, like, me just repeating, like, it wasn't good until I came up with the cadence, you know? New York is on the East Coast because canaries are yellow. What does that mean, right? I said, I don't know. I said, I'm about monkeys, dolphins doing something to tell monkeys, they love them, and stuff.

Like, shit like that. I had the, the only thing I ever suggested to them, Molly and, uh, Krabb. Spike were trying to kiss the whole show. And now they're close enough and they're going to kiss and they wanted me to say something and then the look at me and distract them. And I had to beg Stephanie because they weren't let me do anything. I go, Stephanie, can I please be under the table?

They close their eyes and kiss. And as they kiss, I stick my head in there and they kissed me. And then she finally did it. That's the only thing I ever suggested, you know? I feel like when people watch your stuff in WCW and early WWE, you were a killer. but there's a lot of fans that just remember Moppy and the silly stuff. In the dress.

Those are the two things I hear most of all. Isn't that so interesting? It's very frustrating. Because I remember when the radicals came in. I remember it vividly. And there was a lot of buzz around all four of you, but there's a lot of people talking about. I obviously got heat with someone that I'm very outspoken.

So that happens, right? And it took all of us a little while to adjust to the deal. difference, you know. The difference between WCW and WCW. It's the styles, you know, because I knew Paul and I broke in together, Hunter, you know, so I've known him forever, and he has working with Benoit and he told me the absolute, he goes, you know, he don't know how to blow a comeback at all. And I go, no, he does, it's just a WCW comeback.

It took, and they don't, and I guess they don't have to, they don't give you, like, direction, you figure it out on your own, you know? So, and half of the guys I was working with was bitching because I was stiff, Brian Christopher was crying like I was killing them, you know, and our truth got heard on the paper view with us in a six van. So JR and Bruce Pritcher take me in the office, and they're chewing me out. He got a concussion because of me. About 10 minutes into this ass chewing, I realized I was never in the ring with truth.

So I tell them, Pritchard doesn't believe me. He gets to pay for the match. Benoit gave him the concussion. But I was the guy you'd blame, you know. Did you always know Eddie Guerrero was going to be a star? He was the best worker I'd ever been in the ring with. He's so good. No matter what you do, he can make you look good.

He's the only person I know that could make anyone look good. You know, Chris was a great worker, but Eddie was great and smooth, you know. Like, no matter what you want to do, Eddie could do it, you know. He's so good. he like Vince is a big man that's all he cared about Eddie's so good that he changed Vince's mind about that Yeah and Ray ended up doing that later on too

Do you feel like because you were a WCW guy That you got treated differently in WWE? No I think that What he called? Hunter didn't want me Using the past the cozy up to him I think there was something there I don't know Shouldn't have been because we never had a We trained together and stuff, but he was very standoffish to me and stuff.

I guess you were lucky enough to get in before all of the talent. No, all them guys were fucked. Yeah, they really did. Anytime like something in that situation, just watch the boys who are there. They're all, they're all insinuating at least how shitty everyone else is. Oh, I guess we got to work with these WCW guys now. Yeah. And it was that way forever, you know.

So, like me and John tried out for bench, and you would hear about the WCW guys. We tried out for WCW, and they read bad-mouthed into WWF guys. That was a real rivalry. Yeah. How did you get paired with Terry? I have no idea.

I have no idea. First time I ever worked at a ballet, and Terry, I don't know her at all. And she tells me, she goes, if you say it's okay, they're going to put us together. And I go, okay, I'll try it. And she goes, okay, let's get this out of the way.

You are not fucking me, so don't try. And I go, okay, which was the best thing she could ever done? Now I know I can, so I won't ever hit on her or anything. And I can actually concentrate. I do my, and her, I think she was really the first woman that I was ever really friends with. Because you always have that in the back of your mind. You know, and what, you know, Terry was awesome to work with. I don't know what, we just didn't get the opportunities like we should have.

I under delivered sometimes too, but that wasn't the only reason. And Terry and I were good together, and we, like, Pat came up with the idea of us doing, like, Macho and Elizabeth, where he was overprotected and all that shit. And he pitched it to them. They gave it to Eddie and Joni, you know. So, like, shit like that. Terry, I would just tell her, hey, we're going to do this. You need to get to the rep.

She never had to ask me what hold I was talking about or anything. She was always there. At the end of my matches, she would run to the water and get me and the person I worked with bottles of water. She was just awesome, you know, and we would do whatever we wanted. Blackman and I really got along and trusted each other. And he'd throw her up in the air and I'd dive under and catch her. And she just trusted us not to do it, you know? I feel like Terry got a lot of eyes on you.

Oh, yes. Because everybody loved Terry. Now, I know no one's heard this, so I don't know, but yeah, fucking, I'm going to say it. I don't care. J. Har had a real thing for her. So in the beginning, it was supposed to be a business relationship, right? Because that's what J.R. wanted. That's why we were doing that instead of a couple.

At the end of the night and shit, he'd call the room all the time, and she had pestered her. So she started staying with me to avoid them. And just friends, never touched her, right? and one day she just said, I think this business relationship's over with and we just started kissing each other on TV without the office's approval and that's how it went on to something else.

But yeah, he goes, not everybody can be dating. He was like lecturing us about it. It doesn't make any sense to put a guy and girl together and have it, but yeah, for in the beginning, we were just business relationship. So when you turned it into a romantic relationship on TV,

did you get heat for that? Probably, but no one said nothing to me. We were working on heat and stuff. And when we'd go out and get on the top of the ramp, I'd stop her and kiss her all the time. And then I started getting heat and doing the heat rolling over and kissing her. So they couldn't deny it anymore. Yeah.

And then it was getting over it because that's what they wanted to see. But they least want to believe that, you know, we're doing it because they want to be doing it, right? If you got booked in a different way, look, Chris Van Gogh was world champion, Eddie Guerrero, world champion, and Hall of Famer. Do you think you could have been a world champion? Depending on the time, I had the European title when I was working with Al Snow. Look at them matches. I wasn't doing drugs.

I was too jacked up when I went to WWW. I was 240-something. I'm better in the 2-30s. I lost some way he could move better. 5-9-2-30s, crazy. That's big. Your bodybuilder bit. With no fat, like almost no fat.

I never ate carbs. I only ate protein, and I was on steroids and growth hormone. You had no neck. You were like this. But I watched my matches with Allison Oh, and they're good. Or me and Dean Malenko had a match on Jack, too. It was outstanding. And because I could move and stuff.

WCW, I could move. I got two Jack by the time I got there. It was harder to move, and I blew up easier. I gained weight because I knew Vince like the big guys, you know? Yeah, I was 241 or something. when we got there. Because they weighed us all, you know, for the wrestling license, you know,

and they use that against all of us, you know. Big show weighed 500 pounds, and they would yell at them all the time and tell him you had to lose weight. And then Hunter blew out his quad. So all of a sudden, now all the stairway guys got to lose weight, and they started bidsitting at me to lose weight.

I had, like, single-digit body fat. And I would just ignore them, you know, and JR would go, Perry, you're still in the 240s. But then I just, I don't know why I lost the weight around there. It just happened. And I could see the difference. And they should have gave me the opportunity then, but I already, I think, rubbed somebody the wrong way.

How hard was it to stop taking steroids? I was a drug addict at that point. All I cared about was getting high. You know, I took it almost my entire career, reduced cycles where you take a certain amount, you go up and you go down. I took a C.C. of Cipanate every week. And that's what I did for a decade.

And I never went up, never went down. And you weren't stacking it with other things. No, no, that's all I did. That was it. Yeah, and that worked for me. All the guys, they go up and they come down, and then they don't do it for a while. I always did it.

And then once I added the growth hormone in, then my body fat was going down nowhere, you know. And that's a miracle drug, because it helps you with all kinds of stuff, your skin and stuff like that. Do you think you could get back into great shape now? I'm trying. I'm going to do it without steroids, and I've been lazy for a million years,

but I need to move around better. And I'm really good at being an instructor. So if I get the opportunity to do that, I want to make sure I can do it. Sure. You know, I never asked Paul for anything. And finally, I told him, I go, Paul, can you get me a job? So he sent me down to the performance center. And I fought physical because my hips were bad

and they have all this bullshit strict things. At least next to the excuse, they told me, you know. Around what time was this? 2010 or something, I think. Yeah, for two years, I was going down there once a month or once every other month, you know, for a week and sometimes two weeks, you know. And I don't know why.

It's very comfortable at it, and they respond to me, you know. Plus Kowalski really taught me everything I needed to know. So I know what I'm talking about. The leave is where football lives. From the biggest rivalries conference showdowns to every game-changing moment. The leave is where football lives. With more than 500 shows covering NCAA football

and the NFL across every major podcast platform, the lead brings you closer to the voices, teams, and stories you love. This season, there's only one. one network you need to believe in. Believe in the game. Believe Network. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. We were talking about Terry earlier. It comes to this point where you've got to choose. It's Terry or Moppy. Talk me through how that came together. Paterson thought I should marry a plunger. So that's what he pitched and somehow the plunger got turned into the mop.

And the whole idea was I did that because I got hit in the head, which is what happened with Mike Bell, and this was my punishment. And I can prove it was a punishment because they never gave me any direction. One day in Meadowlands, the people are coming in, the building and stuff, and Paterson grabbed me. He used to call me Gimick for whatever reason. He goes, gimmick, come here, come here, he goes, you hear the people? Every time they come in, they chant Rocky.

Rocky, Rocky, I go together, chant Rocky, so what? No, listen, you idiot. They're chanting Moppy. It was getting over. Then I went to the woodshipper. They made one Moppy T-shirt for me to wear. If they wanted it over, they were made it. They were showing up with homemade costumes as mops and shit.

Not millions of them, but it was happening. And believe me, I didn't want it to get over. But it was getting over. To this day, do you still sign mops at conventions? I got a siss and uh I can't do that yeah because they own that that's the only intellectual property

but if a fan comes to the mom yeah but I can't sell it myself okay you know and I don't want to sign it but I don't want to like that'd be shitty and me the truth like I don't know what his memory is if that's good for him you know but if they asked me I tell him the truth I was miserable and every day thought about quitting

what ended up leading to you leaving WWE I blew out my knees strong Stasiak, me and Bill DeMont, was supposed to get the tag belts. And so we're working households trying to get it together. Working against Hennig and Stasiak. I still have no idea how this happened.

I closed-lined him, and he chopped block me and blew my leg out. Now I went home. I'm making WWE money. I'm a drug addict with nothing to do. I was unfunctioning shortly. When I had my knee surgery, the doctor told me He gave me three times more than he's ever given anyone to get me to sleep.

Because I'm taking pills for the day and shit, you know. So in that time at home, I just never recovered from. Somewhere they just, while I was home injured, they decided they're cutting everyone's pay. So Johnny A's call us and tells me that they want me to take a pay card. Because Vince wanted us at the time, because he felt it would be a good, like the final nail in WCW, just coughing. We had great contracts. They couldn't cut my pay. So I told Johnny I said, well, no, you can't. I'm not doing it. And he goes, well, then we won't resign you. And I go, okay, I have nine months left. You'll have to pay me for nine months.

And he goes, yeah, Vincent's going to be happy and hung up. And the next day he called me back. And he goes, okay, we will be sending you the nine months worth of salary and one check. And we don't want you coming around. I said, okay. And then they had a big speech where they never fire anybody injured and Dean being an agent and stuff. He goes, I think Perry's home injured. So it just depends on who you are, you know. Did you think about what life would look like, like what you were going to do for work after that? I wasn't functioning, man.

And I spent my whole life being a professional wrestler. I didn't know what I could do. And I just, like, started to feel sorry for, for myself and that you slip farther and farther out of where you can't turn it around, right? And shit happened so fast. Like I thought, you know, no, you could never, if you're homeless, it's because you want to be, you know. It seemed like that happened overnight to me. It just happened so fast.

And by then I was really good at lying to myself, telling myself that, oh, I don't have a drug problem, this and that, you know. Yeah. So, and once I was down, I just didn't want to get up, so I stayed down for a long time. How did you stop being homeless? I had a job in a factory, and then they put telephone posts and stuff. And at work accident, telephone phone fell landing on me and crushed me. Through workman's cop, I got like a $70,000 checkport. I bought a house.

I thought this way I'll never be homeless again. Yeah. And that's how I did it, you know, just because of a dumb accident. Wow. And I still live in that house, and I'm going to live in there until I die, you know, it's paid for. And over the years, like I wasn't working, and I applied for disability, that takes like three years to get. And they put you off as long as they can because then you're going to stop quit applying for it. And they don't have to give you the money.

It's brutal. So, and eventually I got it, and I get $745 a month. That's what they pay me to live on. But I don't pay rent. So that's a big deal, you know. When you look back at your wrestling career, what are you most proud of? Me and Raven, the few that set the fly free, Paige or Paige and Raven went to Eric and asked him if we could book that.

So that entire angle we booked, he gave us a segment of a show. So that's all of our idea. When I went over, you can see the people explode. We got them. I got through the back, and Eric was there and thanked me and told me, he goes, I know I made money that match. How can you not be proud at that, right? Yeah.

And me and John against Sabu and Van Dam on November to remember, it was in the running for Best Match of the Year or whatever. So, and we come through the dressing, come back in the dress room, all the boys are there with applaud and nuts, you know, because we tore the house down the four of us. And so shit like that's a big deal, you know. I had not I had to do. I did it because I'm good at it.

I used to do to make the wish things. And I got close to some of them kids. And maybe for a day I made them smile. So that's pretty cool, too, you know. Yeah, that is. The first time I went to there, Ronald McDonald's house, three kids in there in the same room. not really knowing what to say or anything.

I go, so when are you guys getting out of here? As they explained to me, they're probably all dying there. So I learned that you've got to watch what you say and stuff. You know, I've been very lucky, man. I've done hung out with rock stars because of wrestling fans. You know, I got to do shit that most people will never get to do. Yeah. All because of wrestling, you know.

You've got a big milestone birthday coming up soon. You turn 60 soon. How does that number feel to you? I'm old, man. And the number doesn't mean anything to me. By the time that happens, I'll probably feel younger than I did last year because my hips were so bad. And I realize I'm really old because I found a match of me and Jericho in Japan over 30 years ago. So I said it to Chris and he goes, I'm talking down a long time.

You know, it just, there's nothing you can. about that. I wish I would have been smart enough to take care of myself a little better. And that would make this part of my life easier. But I didn't. I was a drug addict who just got high and I didn't take, so I'm out of shape. I have, from my hip surgeries, I did them a little too close together, so I got blood clots in my lungs. From that, I developed a congenital heart failure. So I fluid around my heart now. It's going to get better. But for now, it's like if I walk across the room, I get out of breath, you know, so that when it's what I can do for exercise.

But I've already decided it's getting better, so it's getting better. There's no way it's not going to. But I want to acknowledge you because not everybody gets out of the situation that you were in. A lot of people don't. Yeah, but that wasn't just how, that's how I am. I didn't, like, I couldn't do it any other way. But you did it. Yeah.

And you're still here. Not doing it was impossible. Once I decided to do it, it was going to be done. And that's how my head works, I guess, you know, anything, you know. Getting bullied in school and stuff when I was a little kid, you know, first grade. And I was cut in school. The copper busted me was a blackout and taught martial arts.

That day I decided, that's it, I'm getting the black belt. No one's touching me. And I got it. A Black Mountain what? I won in Judal Kwan and one in Campo Karate. Wow. From 5 to 17, I took martial arts and then I went into the Army. You know, and I would train every day. I was a poor kid. I grew up in the ghetto, you know, in the projects.

I didn't have money to do anything. That's all I did. And one day I, our neighborhood, there's this guy named Bob Bamey was his name. He's older. He was just a bully of prick. he would do a two-wheel, which is like drug. He sprayed in a can, and he's like sniffing glue, and he'd bully everyone and shit like that. I came home from the Army and just decided he wasn't bullying anyone anymore,

and I stopped it, and from that moment on, I'd never let anybody do anything to me. You might kick my ass, but you're going to have to, because I'm not going to just let you treat me like shit anymore. You're tough. Yeah, and so half the locker room beat me up, but they don't want to have to do what they're going to have to do to beat me up.

And through my military training, my martial arts, and growing up in the projects, I'm going to hurt you. So you better be ready to hurt me. But I don't want to, so don't make me. If that makes sense to you. Like, if I let you do something to me, shitty, I will dwell on it forever, and it will just eat at me.

I'd rather get my ass kicked. Everyone gets their ass kick, so that's not a big deal to me. You've got such great stories, sir. thank you for sharing them here thank you for sharing them on YouTube and I think as we sit here right now you've got about 30,000 subscribers I look forward to when you get 50,000

100,000 and beyond so hopefully everybody watching this goes and subscribes to your channel and here's even more great stories and I can't wait to see what you do with YouTube I'm so happy and thank you everybody for being interested man you know I just like that blows my mind and they just want to hear my bullshit you know

It just, what got me heat many times in the locker room were just saying, my opinion, now it was helping me out. So Vince told me one time, he goes, if I gave you a million dollars, you couldn't keep your fucking mouth shut. Because whatever I think, it just comes out. Yeah. And I told, I go, Vince, half the time,

I don't even know what I'm going to say. Yeah. And it just, so that's benefiting me now. It was like a negative for many years. A big focus for me in my life. I think you'll appreciate this too is gratitude, especially with everything that you've been through in your life. I wake up every day, say out loud three things I'm grateful for,

and do it before I go to bed. And it's the question I ask at the end of every interview. So, Perry, as we sit here right now, what are three things you're grateful for? My grandson, Raven, and I got to stand in the middle of a ring and make 80,000 people scream. their fucking heads off and that's pretty cool man.

I love that. So, yeah, Raven and I are so, I wasn't close to my family. Raven's one of the first people I've been really close to, you know, and he means everything to me. So, and I'm very lucky to have him as a friend. Many nights I wanted to kill him because he's a bit much, but many nights he wanted to kill me because I'm a bit much, you know. Yeah.

We were, we were so horrible together, but so great together, too, you know. Yeah. So, and it just, yeah, I'm very grateful for him, man. And my grandson, without question, you know, I missed out my kids because I was gone all the time. I didn't think I was doing anything wrong, but if I could be with my grandson or be gone, there's no way I would have missed on dealing with him. So, you know, and my fondest memories, a lot of them are in the ring. You know, it's just really good.

I wanted to do that since I was a little kid, so it's pretty cool that I got to do that. have a fondest memory? I've asked this before of other people, but when you close your eyes and think about wrestling, what's the moment you go to? Either me and Raven and that fall brawl match or me and John against Sabu and Van Dam in the November to remember.

Because both matches, the people did what we wanted them to do, and our peers respected the match, you know, and you kind of want that, you know? And Mike Bell's a horrible incident in my career. But that's about the only one. That's the only time I did something to where I wasn't in control.

Not the only time I stretch somebody, but every other time I was in control, you know? Yeah. Well, thank you so much. This was fascinating. Congratulations on all of you. Thank you, man. And all the years.

Start your day with a morning jolt of Drake C. Toll. I'm a normal human being. You play the NFL. I don't want you back in college football. Ben, Black, and Abdallah. I don't know if I could name a worse leader for a franchise. absolutely ridiculous. And Westwood One Sports Night

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