Judging Freedom - [LIVE IN MOSCOW] Ray McGovern: What Putin Wants.

Episode Date: May 5, 2025

[LIVE IN MOSCOW] Ray McGovern: What Putin Wants.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

I rarely trust the media anymore. It's so opinionated, fragmented and polarizing. Thankfully, I found Ground News to help me see through the misleading media narratives. Ground News is a platform that makes it easy to compare news sources, read between the lines of media bias and break free from algorithms. Recently, I was using Ground News to dig into the economic impact of Trump's proposed tariffs. On the left, MSNBC ran with Trump Aid says tariffs will raise $6 trillion, which would

be the largest tax hike in US history. Meanwhile, over at Fox News, the headline read, Trump's $6 trillion dollar tariff plan aims to bring jobs back and reduce reliance on China. So is this a devastating tax on American families or a bold move to protect US industry and jobs? Whether you're worried about your grocery bill or your job going overseas or you're somewhere in between, what we can all agree upon is that the media landscape makes it hard to know what's really going on. Ground News is what

I use to step outside the echo chamber and see how every story is being told across the political spectrum. Go to groundnews.com slash start now to get 40% off the Ground News Vantage plan and get access to all of their news analysis features. That's groundnews.com slash start now for 40% off the ground news vantage plan for a limited time only. Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, May 5th, 2025. Ray McGovern will be here with us in just a moment live from Moscow on what the Russian people think of America today. But first this.

While the markets are giving us whiplash, have you seen the price of gold? It's soaring! In the past 12 months, gold has risen to more than $3,000 an ounce. I'm so glad I bought my gold, it's not too late for you to buy yours. The same experts that predicted gold at $3,200 an ounce now predict gold at $4,500 or more in the next year. What's driving the price higher? Paper currencies.

All around the world, they are falling in value. Big money is in panic as falling currencies shrink the value of their paper wealth. That's why big banks and billionaires are buying gold in record amounts. As long as paper money keeps falling, they'll keep buying. And gold will keep rising. So do what I did.

Call my friends at Lear Capital. You'll have a great conversation, and they'll send you very helpful information. Learn how you can store gold in your IRA tax and penalty free, or have it sent directly to your doorstep. There's zero pressure to buy and you have a 100% risk-free purchase guarantee. It's time to see if gold is right for you. Call 800-511-4620, 800-511-4620 or go to learjudgenap.com and tell them your friend the judge sent you. Ray McGovern, welcome here, my dear friend. Thank you very much for joining us. You recently

addressed in Russia, you recently addressed a youth group, the same group that had been addressed by President Vladimir Putin and former Russian President Dmitry Medvedev. There you are in this magnificent facility. It's a still of you addressing them. What did you tell them? I compared my visit, Judge, to the one I made in 1972 at the end of the negotiations on strategic arms limitations. There the basic treaty on anti-ballistic missiles, the prohibition or the limitation of them was signed.

And we were able to, I was able to explain to those young folks that in those days, the Russians were very interested in signing these kinds of agreements with us for two reasons. They didn't want to spend a lot of money, and they thought that China was going to improve relations with the US faster than the Soviets could. So there was additional incentive. Now what I want to point out now is that that incentive has dissipated. Over the last 50 years or more, the Chinese and the Russians have become together so close that they're really two against one. And that's the new situation that the US faces. Now, with respect to Ukraine, I pointed out that a surprise to most people is that the Chinese went against their bedrock support for Westphalia, you know,

no intervention in other people's affairs, no violation of borders, and supported. First, they acquiesced, but they supported Putin in the special military operation. With respect to that, I simply said that it looks like there's great confusion in Washington, but as long as Witkoff and Trump are calling the shots, other people will kind of fade away, I think. And it may be weeks, yet months, before some kind of an agreement is reached. But I still have not given hope that despite all the hurdles that have been raised on the western side, not only in Washington, but of course in Europe, that some kind of deal is possible. Both rulers want some kind of deal. It's going to happen in my view. What is the, is there a sense of impatience with the special military operation or is there a sense

to the extent that you can put your thumb on the Russian pulse to the extent that there is a collective pulse? Do the Russian people have the extent that there is a collective pulse. Do the Russian people have the same patience as President Putin does? Well, it's changed, Judge. There were a bunch of Russians, not terribly important slice of the population, but were impatient and sort of tired of the slow pace. That's pretty much dissipated. The Russians are clearly winning. That's documented every day as the atrit, atrit, atrit new verb toward the west in Ukraine.

So people fairly reside the fact that Putin holds the high cards, that whatever happens is going to reflect the fact that the Russian army has pretty much won the war and that they could wait for that. They are in no hurry and I think they're a little bit mystified at the fact that Mr. Trump seems to be in a much bigger Is there any feeling about General Kellogg, whose views are old line, old school, neocon, and whom the government is still putting out there as recently as late last week on Fox News? Well, you know, Judge, I think that I've mentioned before, I think that's pretty much the maximalist approach. This is what we could demand. I don't think Kellogg really has the ear of either Witkoff or Trump. So I think that will be negotiated. These are demands that cannot be

honored by the Russian side. And once again, the Russians seem to appreciate that Trump appreciates that they have the high courts and both countries want this thing to stop. Here's Dmitry Peskov, who's the official spokesperson for the Kremlin. The comments are in Russian, but there's an English translation. And this is just yesterday, May 4th. The peace process continues. President Putin's main goal is to achieve the aims he declared when starting the special military operation. We should secure our national interests. Is it preferable to achieve these goals peacefully?

Yes. And initially, the President tried to achieve these goals peacefully. Now the President remains open to political and diplomatic methods of resolving this conflict. But the situation is as it is. We hear no reaction from Kiev. The process continues. Let me remind you that President Putin said during his news conference in the Kremlin that he supported this initiative to establish a ceasefire.

But before it is established, several questions should be answered, and several issues settled. They were all listed by President Putin. We know what those issues are, Crimea and the four oblasts, and no NATO. General Kellogg acts as if those issues don't exist. I don't know what Steve Witkoff says to President Putin. If Witkoff acts as if those issues don't exist, then he's wasting his time. Shopify helps you sell at every stage of your business.

Like that, let's put it online and see what happens stage. And the site is live. That reopened a store and need a fast checkout stage. Thanks! You're all set. That count it up and ship it around the globe stage. This one's going to Thailand. And that wait did we just hit a million orders stage. Whatever your stage, businesses that grow, grow with Shopify.

Sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash listen. Now we know what Witkoff thinks of those issues. He told Tucker Carlson, the dismay of the Washington Post, that he thought those referenda, the one in Crimea and the other four, were legitimate. That were legitimate. They showed a distinct preference on the part of the vast majority, in some cases, of the people to rejoin Russia. So, Witkoff is singing a very different song. Kellogg, I don't think, is really being more than just a kind of guy, a straight man to do the maximalist proposal, but I don't take them seriously. I don't think anyone else does except the ones that want to criticize

the, the approach as being kind of, kind of crazy, not able to understand. It's a negotiation. It's a, it's a deal making thing and and they're gonna use what they have and what tough is one of the pawns It seems to me Chris. Do we have? Foreign Minister Lavrov on the futility of a ceasefire What do you think of this right if if you want the ceasefire Just to continue supply arms to Ukraine, so what is your purpose? You know what Kaya Callas and what's his name, Mark Rute said about the ceasefire?

The NATO secretary general and the European Union. They bluntly stated that they can support only the deal which at the end of the day will make Ukraine stronger, would make Ukraine a victor. There's a perfectly rational approach as to why ceasefire first negotiation afterwards is not going to work. And any American that is proposing that is offering a pipe dream. Well, Judge, that's been clear for 11 months now. It was the middle of June last year when Putin made those conditions very clear. So she kept asking about these things. He turned them adroitly down and pointed out the

reality. You know, we're not going to accept the ceasefire just so that Ukraine can replenish its arms together with what it gets from the US still, and what it gets from Germany and England and France. So yeah, that was very clear. Lavrov has been sort of very straight here and has emphasized what they consider to be the many betrayals on Ukraine and NATO. Now going back to 2008, when our ambassador there, Bill Burns, was told, look, yet means yet, no Ukraine and NATO.

If you put Ukraine and NATO even try to, we're going to have to decide whether we have to invade or not. We don't want to have to decide that. So please, knock it off. That was 2008. Then of course you had that Maiden uprising where Putin was promised that everything is going to be fine. Yanukovych is all right. We're just rescheduling elections. And that was betrayed. And you had Minsk. Minsk Accords were violated by Germans and the French and they've admitted it. And most recently you had the Istanbul. You know, the business about unprovoked,

I think most Americans have enough evidence now to realize that that was a lie. It was provoked. Now, how about full scale? That's the other adjective, full scale with 90,000 troops. Putin thought that he would take over Ukraine and maybe Poland. And the Baltics said, give me a break. What he was trying to do is scare the hell out of Zelensky. And he succeeded. Zelensky picked his best friend to lead the delegation the very next day after the first special military operation attack on Ukraine. And they negotiated a deal in Belarus and then later in Istanbul. It was on a piece of paper initial. So those are the betrayals that Lavrov is talking about. Putin, on the other hand,

is talking about growing trust. The fact that he thinks that President Trump is sincere and that there is a possibility that trust could make a deal. Like in 1972 when we first learned to dovere no provere, trust but verify. There are all kinds of verification means that can be inserted in this calculus. So I see that the two big stars here, the two big powers, are going to be able to work out some kind of deal. The Ukrainians won't like it. Europeans won't like it. But maybe, maybe the killing will stop. As we are taping this, it's Monday, May 5th. On Thursday, May 8th, is what in Russia, what the 4th of July is here, monumental joy and commemorations of liberation because it marks the defeat of Nazi Germany in World

War II. I guess this is a silly question. Am I correct in assuming that no Western leaders or American officials, you'll be there, no Western officials or American government officials will be there? Just Oliver Stone and I, and we don't qualify as government officials. I don't know if they'll even let their ambassador go to the proceedings. You know, the English are even worse. They have Winston Churchill, whom I'm not very fond of quoting, but what did he say? He said, the Red Army tore the guts out of the Wehrmacht

and Stalingrad tore the guts. And that's what happened. Now we have history and then we have alternative facts. If I recite history as Winston Churchill, for God's sake did, okay. And Putin says the same thing. Does that put me in Putin's pocket? Looks like we might've lost you for a second there, Ray. All right, Ray, you might have to log off and log back on because we lost communication with you. You were articulating what I didn't know, and I share your view of

Churchill, which is a very negative one, but you were in the process of articulating that Churchill quite correctly analogized the behavior of the Russian militaries having, quote, torn the guts out of the Wehrmacht, that's the German military, in World War II. I do want to ask you about President Trump's unique and historically inaccurate interpretation and understanding of which military won the war, but we need you to come back. It looks like you might be back with us. There he is. Okay.

I was summarizing in your absence because of the breakdown of the high tech. I was summarizing what you were saying about Winston Churchill. What did Trump say about who defeated Germany in World War II? We did. Of course we did. You know, we were responsible for defeating Germany in World War I and World War II, and we should have probably a special, yeah, a special national holiday to commemorate those things. I mean, you know, Trump is coming across as an ignoramus to most of the people in the world who realize that it's not just that Mr. Putin says that Russia bore the brunt of the world, it's everybody who has studied any history at all. Did we help? Of course we helped. We sent almost 200,000 200,000 2.5 ton trucks that were

capable of pulling artillery, capable of pulling troops, going through rivers, going through snow. These people were helping, we were helping the Russians through the Caucasus, into the Caucasus from Iran. So yeah, we helped, but my God, to say, as others have said, that the Russians helped us win the war. That's pretty stupid. That's ahistorical. And, you know, it's just wrong. So Trump is making a little bit fun of himself if he thinks, if he tries to make people believe that.

Yeah. Um, last weekend, the United States destroyed a detention center in Yemen and of course killed all 83 detainees there. No apology, no admission, no recognition. But to what end, other than to please Netanyahu, are we killing civilians and innocents in Yemen? Well, you know, the Yemenis don't look like us and I think that was a camp for displaced Africans. They really don't look like us. Part of this is pure and simple racism. Now with respect to Netanyahu, I'm seeing some daylight between Trump and Netanyahu. I'm glad that Mike Walsh got the heave-ho. I think it was pretty much urging Netanyahu's policy on Trump,

and I think Trump got a little tired of it. The vice president seemed to be of a more sober mind. So the good news, and I hope I'm right, is that the fourth session of U.S.-Iranian talks will bring the kind of fruit that will make it even less likely that the U.S. will let Netanyahu mousetrap the U.S. into a war with Iran. I think that's increasingly unlikely, and that's good news. I think you're being charitable with the vice president. I think he's actually lying. This is not a promotion for Mike Waltz. They had to kick Mike Waltz out. He was negotiating with Netanyahu behind the president's back and goading him on and trying to find out a way to talk Trump into supporting the war in Iran. Now I just meant his... We lost you again, Ray. Are you back on? Yeah, we got you back.

Go ahead. You were talking about the vice president's comments about Mike Waltz's departure. Actually, that was not what I was referring to. I think they were silly. What I was referring to is the sensible things that Mike, that the vice president has said with respect to Ukraine, with respect to Iran as well. You know, it's damning with faint praise, but they're a hell of a lot more sensible than what Mike Walsh was spouting. Absolutely, absolutely. After talking to Ron Burmer.

Right, if you read the transcript of the Signal chat, there were at least two. One of them was transcribed because of the Jeffrey Goldberg from the Atlantic. The vice president was a voice of reason. Even Pete Hegseth, who loves war, was suggesting restraint. Netanyahu just announced that the IDF will be occupying Gaza. No surprise, but what is Trump going to do about it? Netanyahu just announced that the IDF will be occupying Gaza. No surprise, but what is Trump going to do about it? Well, you know, there's some activity out in the Gulf states.

They have a long-standing, I think it's about a year old, proposal. Well, they will intervene and pretty much play a major role in rehabilitating Gaza. Hamas would step back a little. So I think that's the focus of what's going to happen in the next couple of weeks. Netanyahu, his army is not all that strong. His capabilities are not all that strong. So I'm hoping, and this is just a hope, not a forlorn one, that the administration will restrain Netanyahu now and say, okay, Netanyahu, we'll give you enough so you can stay in power and so you don't lose your right-wing people and have to go to jail.

We'll give you that much, but we're not going to give you a damn thing more. And besides, we're going to do something else with the Gaza Strip, and people in the Gulf States are going to help with this. At least they're willing to talk about it. So this thing is in flux. God knows where it's going to end up. But as I say, the good news to me is that I don't think Netanyahu is even going to try to mousetrap us into war against the run, because I think the signals are very clear now, especially with Walt's leaving and Ron Burmer kind of crying into his handkerchief. Right, right.

Good response. Your lips to Trump's ears. What will the celebration consist of on Thursday? Is it a huge parade in Red Square? I believe it will be, Judge. I don't really know much about it. I do. I have learned that I am invited. And that was a big deal.

It's not easy to get tickets to this thing. So I'll be there and report from the scene. But I imagine it will be very much like the ones that were held during the major celebrations in the past, I've heard nothing about curtailing them out of fear of Ukrainian drones. I think that Moscow is pretty well protected now, but I hope I don't eat my words. I'll be standing next to Oliver Stone, and he's a pretty big guy. I'll duck behind him if something untoward happens. Wow.

Thank you very much, Ray. All the best. Safe travels and we'll look forward to chatting with you. Maybe you'll have some nice videos for us with Larry Johnson on Friday. I'll try to. Well, stay well. Thank you. Thank you, my dear friend. And coming up later today at 1 o'clock, Medea Benjamin, what is the government trying to do to code pink?

At 2 o'clock, Larry Johnson. And at 4 o'clock, the always worth waiting for, Scott Ritter, Justin Napolitano for Judging Freedom. freedom. You