I Robbed a RadioShack — Then Got 30 Years in Prison | Taveuan Williams
00:00I always told myself, if I get caught doing something like this, I know this isn't, this isn'tno year.This ain't no two years.This ain't no three.You're going to go sit it down.I'm not going to prison.And so from that moment, it was very much by time, by as much time as possible because weknow we're going to die.
00:17That's Tavion Williams.In 2012, he walked into a radio shack to rob it of a few hundred dollars.But when police showed up, it turned into a six-hour hostage standoff where he fired shotsofficers and thought he was going to die. He ended up getting sentenced to 30 years in prison.But after more than a decade behind bars, he managed to convince his own prosecutor to supportreducing his sentence. Today, he's here to tell the full story.Where do you grow up, Teva?Democratarado. What was your upbringing, like early childhood?
00:53My early childhood, I grew up in a single parent home. Me, my older brother, I had two youngersiblings. My mother, she was our sole provider.My father very much was in the streets.Lived that life.And by time I was, I think I was nine when my dad was, he was killed.And so when you asked my upbringing, I grew up on the east side of Denver, Colorado, to be exact.And for those that don't know what the east side of Denver, Colorado once was, it was a harsh environment, right?It definitely embodied love and community and history.
01:37Like it's rich, culturally speaking, right?But just as an environment, the East Side was definitely a very harsh environment to grow up in.How do your father, or why did your father get shot?He was killed.He and his friend.So as a story was told to me, there was some.type of, there was some type of conflict with him and another individual. And on this particular day,my dad was at a residence, not too far from my home. And he went over there and he killed my father
02:17and his friend. Yeah. How do you find out about it? So, really good question. On this particularday, I didn't go to school. And I've always been one of those kids. And I've always been one of thosekids that likes to watch the news and just stay up to beat with what's going on in the world.And I remember seeing this shooting.They didn't release a name, but they said there was a killing on Columbine.I live on Gilpin, five minutes away.So when my mom comes home from work, I remember telling her, I said, did you, did you hearabout that shooting on Columbine?
02:53She was like, no, boo, I didn't see that.A couple hours later, I bring it up again.and she just looks at meand I remember I brought it up the third timeand she says boy why you keep bringing updon't know stop talking about thatlo and beholdlater that night someone calls my mom
03:14her and her friend leaveonly for her to come back and tell me thatthat was my dadwowyeah how'd that make you feelumI was definitely sadI, at that point in my life, I was nine, so I don't even think that I was able to identify with
03:42the emotion that I was feeling and to be able to put a name to it.Me and my father had an interesting relationship simply because he was in the streetsand I didn't see him often.Loved him, cared for him, wanted more of his presence.But interestingly enough,though he wasn't as present as I would have wanted him to have been,his death still impacted me deeply, for sure.Did you want to follow his footsteps at all?
04:22I don't think that I've ever sat down and said,you know what, I'm going to jump out here,I'm going to get in the streets,I'm going to make this decision, this decision,and this decision because my dad made these decisions.Yet, a lot of my actions,reflected a lot of the things that he did as well.And so I don't know if that was something that happened on a subconscious level,
04:47but I can't recall a particular point in my life where I said,I'm doing this and I'm going to be this because my pops was this.Was there something you wanted out of life?At that age, I think more than anything, man, growing up in the hood, we just wanted to,I just wanted to be rich.Like, money was everything, right?I wanted to be rich.And like every other young man growing up in the hood, the way out is either rapping or playing
05:17sports.I took a stab at both.I did.But I don't think from a place of just having this deep sense of purpose or this callingto become something, no, not as a young man.I just, I was decent at sports.I love playing sports.I play sports, and outside of that, it was money was God, quite frankly.
05:45What were your favorite sports to play?Oh, football.Football, hand down.Hands down.I love football.I ran a little bit of track, but I don't think anything compares to playing football.Just as a young man, I enjoy being able to inflict violence, and I get in trouble for it, right?Everyone, so you just asked me about my nicknames.
06:07If I would take you back to the city and let's say that we went to some type of festival,if I was to see someone that I grew up with and I played football with, they call me Rodney Lott, right?Ronnie Lott.And Ronnie Lott was one of the hardest hidden safeties that played for the San Francisco 49ers.And so when I started playing football, I was just balls to the walls.I did not.There was no reserves.I love tackling.
06:35I love hidden.I love being physical.and I remember one day my coach said,your name's, you're Ronnie Lott.And from there, that stuck.Everybody called me Ronnie Lott.Yeah.Did you play football throughout high school?
06:50No, I, so I played football a little bit in my freshman year,but due to just not being in school, missing school so often,you're inactive, right?Then a tad bit of my sophomore year,I followed up.My junior year, I was doing well, too.I switched schools and I was playing for manual, which is a school in the heart of my neighborhood.And I want to say I played four or five games that year, but then I got committed, meaning I went off to Division of Youth Corrections for one to two.
07:26What was that for?Robbery.Tell us about that.Man, just me and a couple of friends.We went to commit a robbery.I had been at that point in my life,I had been robin since I was 12, 13 years old.That's not the first time that I've encountered,
07:47had an encounter with the justice system, right?And this one was, it was very,it wasn't even nothing at that time.We didn't even feel like it was anything too significantto be committed.We came up with a plan to go,we wanted to secure.There was a bunch of a,
08:09there was this case in this storeand they had hundreds of iPods.And we're like, if we can break into there,we open it up, you slide it open,I'm going to fill up.That whole little thing.We have this great plan.And none of that went according to plan.
08:23They saw us,alerted the authorities.They came.I was arrested.They said, we're done with you.You don't have any more chances.Go away.And I went to, it's called right of passage for 15, 16 months.
08:39They gave me one to two.How did your mom feel about that?Very much devastated.But again, I had been getting in trouble so much.This was, this didn't come as a surprise to anyone.That was bound to happen.Just the path that I was on, the decisions that I was making,I was bound to end up in that situation.
09:02but still very much devastating for sure.Did you turn to robbing solely for money?Absolutely, yeah.And as a young man for sure,I would say that there's a thrill in it too.There's an adrenaline rush that comes from it.I learned that there's something mysterious,very particular about robin
09:29because I have friends who could go sell drugs on the cornerall day, every day.and be fine.But you present himan opportunity to rob.And I'm like,bro, are you crazy?I'm like, bro,
09:42you're already out therecommitting crimes anyway, right?I think for me,I definitely,and it's not that I saw it as it was a gamebecause this was very much serious.But in the moment,the adrenaline and the rush
10:02and everything that comes with that situation,I did enjoy it very much.But absolutely,the main.reason why I was doing the things that I was doing was because I wanted to improve my situation,economically speaking. How was this juvenile facility? ROP. ROP was a military school. So,five in the morning, you hear, so you have two pods. You have orientation, which you spend at least45 days, and you have to work your way up to main population, where you have a little more freedoms
10:36and luxuries and things of that nature. And so my first day there, five in the morning, I heardogs got 45. What that means is you have 45 seconds to jump out of your bed, put on yoursocks, put on your sweats, and there's a big square in the center of the pod, and you have to bestanding appropriate, which is both hands on your side, chest out, face forward, eyes forward,and 45 seconds. Dang. From there, that's where the morning begins. It's very much military-ish.we march to the cafeteria you eat you can't you can't talk there's no talking you come backyou straighten up your bed after you straighten up your bed 1820 what's 1820 that's a workoutwhere you do 18 different workouts 20 reps of each and you would do that every day then depending
11:32on the day they would pick which run will we do someday it would just be a three mile and the threemile, you had to run that in under 24 minutes. And then you had the adrenaline and the stamina,because this is on acres of land. And so they have these different courses that are supposed tochallenge you in different ways. But ROP was challenging to begin with. I think you workyour way out to main population and you get in the groove of it. And it's just like, okay,it just kind of is what it is, you know? But you can still go to school. You can when you earn so,orientation, then you can earn your intern. So there's different statuses. You earn your intern,and now you can do a little bit more. You get to your RAM status, you start going on home passes.
12:23And so you're not confined to this facility. You got guys who have gotten their high schooldiplomas and their GEDs, and they go work every day. So if you have, let's say, 10 monthsremaining on your sentence, for the next 10 months, you just get the same.You go to work and you get out and hopefully that positions you to go out and do well in life.Me, I, let me see, when did I, I got my GD probably three or four months prior to getting out of there.So I worked for a little bit, but I was already on my way out of the facility.Do you think that physical aspect of it actually helps with rehabilitation at that age?I don't think it's so much the rehabilitation.
13:08I think it's the discipline that they're trying to inculcating you and just getting to a placewhere you're controlling your faculty because what I didn't tell you about the three mile isif you don't run that three miles and under 24 minutes now you go to concerns and in concernsyou do an 1820 another three mile and you write a five page paper right way more extreme and soeverybody's trying to push themselves to ensure that they hit that marker that they fall under the 24minutes. But I would say it was less about, I don't think it was so much about rehabilitationas it was getting you to a place to be able to exercise discipline over this.What was your mindset coming out of there? Very much naive, extremely naive. I told myself that
14:01I was going to get out and live a different life, that I was done with the streets, that I wasdone committing crimes. And two weeks later, a detective was knocking at my mom's door.What changed in those, you know, a couple days of getting out, your mindset versus a realityof it? The practicality. You can, you can, in your mind, you can imagine things to be whateveryou want them to be. But when real life hits, real life hits. And I had never worked the job.I had no work ethic.And so being faced with the same situation, the same circumstances, the same environment,I was still extremely materialistic.
14:52I was still comparing my life to everybody around me.So I'm getting out.I'm seeing what everyone's having, what everyone's doing.It was inevitable that I was going to go hit a lick.I had to go figure it out.Like, this is just the truth.But when I was in there, I was telling myself, there's no situation that I can be presented withthat is going to force me.
15:12or make me act in a way where I'm going to end up back in any type of facility.And yet, I found myself back inside of a facility.Did you try to look for a job at all?Actually apply to places, go into places?Real effort?No.No.And I think one of the worst things that happened to me is the first time that
15:47I had a few thousand dollars. It came illegitimate. And so it rewires your brain. I think that this is howmoney comes. Most people the first time that they have $1,500, $2,000, they've went and put in 40 hours,80 hours. It wasn't like that for me. When you go commit a robbery and then 45 seconds, you split someand you have $1,500, $2,000, it makes you look at money through, it's a delusional lens becauseI can blow this and I can get it back? It's like, can you blow this and get it back? But youbelieve that because you believe you're just another robbery away from getting more money.And so for me, I mean, at the time, I want to say minimum wage, $7.75 or $6.75?I wasn't doing that.
16:41And what year was this?I got out of ROP in 2010.December of 2010, I got out of ROP.So what do you end up doing?What happens?Very quickly, within a matter of months, just back doing what I've always done.Scheming, finding opportunities to improve my conditions.And my way, my way of coming up has always been like the people that know me from my neighborhood, I hit licks.
17:14Those are the things that I was taught.Though I was, I always tell people, I was trained in condition to do these things.This is just the truth.I was exposed to this lifestyle from people around me.And I took it and I ran with it and I tried to find ways to improve it.And that was just my trade.That's the way that I viewed it.Now, are these like sophisticated robots?
17:37No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. It just depends on what juncture in time you're talking about.There was a period of time when there was a, we would have a group of us. I had a group of friends andevery day we, we set out with a quota to rob a certain amount of houses. And so when I told you,when I got committed and they said, we're done with this, I got caught for some of those burglaries as well.It's not like I was getting away with everything that I was doing.But early, it started with robberies.And, yeah, our way of identifying a good target was what they call at the time plasmas, flat screen TVs.Which were just coming out around that time, right?
18:28Yeah, absolutely.And so we would go canvas neighborhoods.We knew which neighborhoods were the best neighborhoods.And if we would identify 50 inch of.60 inch, we knew that that was a gold mine. Anything on top of that was a plus, whether it was alaptop, whether it was a game system, whether you found guns, whether you found cash, whether youfound jewelry. And every day, that's what it was. I would leave school, leave to school.My mom was thinking that I was going to school, and my backpack was empty. Really, all I had
18:59inside my backpack was some gloves. I would leave, go meet with my friends, and we would spend the dayrobin houses.When you're doing that, do you ever think about the kids that you take from?Never.When you're in a place of survival and you're thinking about your livelihood,right and wrong is never considered.I know it's wrong.As a little kid, you know when you're doing something wrong.
19:32So it wasn't, this was never a question of, is this okay?I knew it wasn't okay.But I also felt like my circumstances trumped any morals, values, because that didn't matter.A moral compass, I'm trying to survive, right?And part of that is the survival wasn't just the basic needs.I'm not just talking about the shelter and the clothing and the, man, growing up in the hood,when I tell you, we're so materialistic and having the newest, having the latest and the greatestis everything.
20:16And to not have these things is equivalent to being nothing.That's how we viewed it, right?Michael Jordan comes out with a pair of shoes every Saturday.And the goal was to have every pair.Anybody that knew me at that particular point in my life knew that I was a sneaker head.I had every pair, every, every, I slept in line for shoes, right?But it was deeper than just possessing a shoe.This was identity.
20:46This was to be viewed a certain way, right?I looked back in the attention that comes from it that mattered.It mattered very much.And to not have that, I didn't even want to know what that felt like, right?And so, no, I didn't think about the children.I didn't think about the families.I didn't think we would joke and say they have insurance.They'll get it back.
21:15Hopefully they have insurance, right?Like those type of things.Those were the justifications.They'll get it all back to insurance.They'll be fine.They'll get new stuff.How do you feel about it now?Oh, I mean, I feel like the 13 years and six months that I just spent in prison
21:42wasn't just for the robbery that I committed.I felt like I was experiencing the effects and the aftermath of every terrible decision I made.And so for every robbery and every victim and every person that I hurt and every person that I traumatizedand all the pain that I inflicted, I felt like all of that came back home.And I had to deal with that and definitely don't feel good about it.but I feel like I've done my damnedest to pay the debt that I owe, right?I feel like I've done my best to put myself in a position where I'm living a life that isallowing me to redeem myself, right?
22:42I'm living a life that is allowing me to give back and to be of service and to upliftand to make a difference instead of being the dude who takes.I think that everything that I do right now, when I wake up and I live my life, whether I'm on social and I'm putting out a motivational video or whether I'm on a stage or on a speaking engagement or whether I'm publishing a book, all of those things, that's my way of living a selfless life.That's a way of me being able to pour into every life I encounter because there is no going back and undoing the things that I've done. It's done. There's no going back.And so if there's any way to make amends, if that's really even possible, it's by how I live my life and in the fashion in which I live my life.And that's why I'm doing what I'm doing because I have all of those people in mind.Though I don't know names and where they may have found themselves in the lives that they're living, aside from the time that I spent incarcerated, it's what are you doing right now?You ever check your bank account and realize you spent a little more money than you thought you did?
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25:13Visit our link in bio.So 2010 you get out of the juvenile facility.How do you end up back in prison?At this particular point in time, I still hustling, scheming, still doing the same stuff.I ended up running into one of my homies, and he had just got out of prison.And mind you, I was already doing my own thing.But I met up with him, and he asked me, because he knows what I'm out there doing.You got any legs?
26:04What you're on?What you're up to?Like, absolutely.And I exchanged numbers.He's fresh out.He's on parole.And we go on a crime spree.It's just kind of up the ante.
26:17Started doing a lot more than what I was doing.I happened to run into a particular connect.It ended up being like a fence.And I just started taking crazy risk.And so when you say, how did I end up in prison?September 7th, 2012.I wake up that morning and I go pick him up.I go pick up and I go pick him up.
26:46We've already scoped out the location.This was a radio shack.And the plan is to go in.He's going to attend to whoever's working the desk.And I'm going to go to the back and I am going to fill upthree football duffel bags with iPhones.And so iPhones were the thing because that's what the fence wanted.And we were selling them those.
27:18And that's exactly what happened.We go in.He goes over and he's making sure that his name's Christopher.This is the dude's name who was working that day.He's watching Christopher.I proceed to the back of the store.I fill up three duffel bags.full of iPhones, and then I proceed to take them to the car.
27:45And so I tell him, bro, I'll be right back.I place one defle bag around my neck.I grab another one.Then I leave out the back of the store.When you leave out the back of the store, there's this small walkway,and you can walk down this way.The car is right here.So I go walk to the car.
28:03I take off one bag, throw it in the car.I throw the other bag in the carslammed the doorTurn aroundWalking backTo come inside the buildingAs I'm walking to come right hereThe police are right here
28:19Unbeknownst to meHe comes from around the corner and saysFreezeI lookSlam the doorI run insideAnd I tell him bro the 50 are outsideCome on
28:29And we began running out the front of the storeBecause I'm fastExtremely fastAnd I know if I can get out this storeI'm going to get away.I just have to get out of this store.And we're running out of the store, and they're coming in,and I shoot, and that changed everything.
28:56I shoot.We turn around and begin running back.I think you hear a barrage of shots.Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.They just start shooting.I run to the back of the store, and I call my mom.She picks up.And I told her, I told you I was about to die.
29:20I told you I was about to die.And I said, I love you, and I hung up the phone.I proceeded to, she started going through my phone list, my contact list, calling everybody that I love.Like, it's over.I'm about to die.I'm going out just like Dub.Dub was one of my guys.and a year prior to my situation,
30:17he died in a very similar situation.Though different, the police killed him.And I remember running to the back of the storeand that's where my mind went there.We both, we looked at each other.Me and Mike, like, bro, we're going out like, duh,we're about to die for real.Because I told my, I'm not going to prison.
30:33I always told myself, if I get caught doing something like this,I know this isn't, this isn't no year.This ain't no two years.This ain't no three.you're going to go sit it down. I'm not going to prison. And so from that moment, it was very muchby time, by as much time as possible, because we know we're going to die. Then it occurred to me,and this is early in the Facebook days, right? Facebook was nothing like it is now back then.I'm like, just get on Facebook, Facebook, and post a status. Tell everybody. And so I got on
31:08Facebook and I said something along the lines of, I just,got caught hitting a lick and I'm about to die.Unbeknownst to me, this situation is growing and growing fast.Like it was becoming a big deal.We're in the back.There's no TVs.We're not surfing the internet in terms of on Google.So we don't know that over the course of a few hours, there's swathing.
31:53teams outside. You have snipers on the buildings. You have the hostage negotiator bus. Youhave the ambulance. We have, and literally hundreds of supporters, friends and family members out therebegging and pleading for us to come out. And we just were buying time. We were in there six hours.And so there's only certain parts of it that I vividly remember, right?Like when you experience a traumatic event, I feel like sometimes you suppress some of those memories.And it was unfortunate that Christopher, who was the hostage, had to endure any of that and that he was there that day.but in that moment, we felt like he was keeping us alive.He was the only thing preventing them from rushing in and killing us,
33:01which is what, that's how we justified keeping him back there.I remember at one point in time they sent in the robot.They sent in a robot with a telephone to communicate with us,and we pick up the phone, talk for a few minutes, hang up the phone.There was moments when it was calm,and there was moments when it was intense.There was a particular point in time when they were shooting through the wall.And I remember my lawyer coming to see me and I saw all the projections.
33:41They had the sticks in the wall.All of the shots were head level.They didn't know particularly where we were,but they were hoping to just hit us.right um the most scared i've ever been in my life i felt feelings i felt emotions that i still haveno words for maybe it was the combination of feelings and emotions coming together to create whateverthat thing was but to be in a place where you're trying to accept the fact that my life is really overLike it's done.
34:31I had so many people calling my phone.And when I tell you, until the police turned off my phone for a good four and a half, five hours, it never stopped ringing.Never stopped ringing.I talked to people that I don't remember I even talked to because I would pick up and everybody was, please, I love you.I'm not coming out.That was the whole thing.And I was, I was just sold.This is it.
35:19What am I going to do in prison?If I knew that I was going to go to prison, I would have never shot.I'm never going to get out of prison.And I think that's what I was grappling with in the moment was,you want me to surrender to go to prison for the rest of my life?Absolutely not.Why did you decide to shoot to begin with?You can't, you didn't have time to think about that.
35:43Do you normally bring guns to a robbery?Absolutely.Would you ever?intend to use them like you did or was that? No, I mean, I think that a guns are powerful. Youpull out a gun and people listen and that's just kind of, you learn those lessons early whenyou commit a robbery and you see people's reactions to a gun. And so the logic behind it was whenyou're going in to commit these robberies, you want to be in control of the environment, right,two individuals, mask on, guns, they're listening.
36:23Never had an issue.I'm not going to act like we went in with the mindset that we're going to shoot up the place.Nah, there was never an intention to physically harm anyone.But a gun was an essential tool of the trade.When you're doing that, I don't know how else was I going to walk in and hand him a note.and say, here's a note. I'm taking your absolutely not, right? And so, yeah, I don't think thatI ever thought that it would come to that point. Had you ever taken over a store like thatbefore? Yeah, for sure. That wasn't the only. So we got caught for that robbery, red-handed,
37:15but I also got sentenced for... They traced it back. Yeah. The case was so,big. So I remember going to the county jail and we walk in that night and we go down to the holding areaand the sheriff looks over and he says, you fuckers made the national news. Verbatim. I still didn'tknow what he was talking about because I still didn't, hadn't seen the TV. Then I end up goingup to 4D that put me in, they put both of us that put us in high classification.Officers were involved, 23 and 1, and I didn't eat my first week.Just shell-shocked, down and out, like in a very bad place.And everybody would be like, famous, famous, can I get your tray?
38:14Famous, can I get your tray?Give it to them.Give them all of my tray.And then I want to say that following week,Detective started coming to see me from all over.From all.We know you did this.I would walk into the room.
38:34Like, what's up?You want to talk?Absolutely not.Don't worry about it.We're going to get you.Walk into another room.Once we hired an attorney, I had his card,so I'll walk into these professional visits and just hand them the card.
38:49some of the stuff that they were coming for, maybe I did it.Some stuff, I had no idea what they were talking about.But I ended up getting charged for the robbery we got caught for.Then there was another one that I pled out to and I got a 24-year sentence for that one.Now, when you guys are sitting in there for six hours, what are you guys doing?Just talking, pacing back and forth?Not so much pacing.It's small.
39:16It's smaller than the studio that we're sitting in right now.And again, we both spent a lot of time.He was on his phone the majority of the time.I was on my phone the majority of the time.Like, I'm about to die.I'm saying my goodbyes.And that's what I most vividly, I just remember talking to friends and family members.They're crying.
39:54And I still, it's hard to believe I was in there six hours because that time flew by.Like, it was just going.And then came like a, there was a turning point.There was four people that I talked to towards the end that maybe I haven't even expressed this to them.Obviously my mom knows, but for her, but they definitely influenced me.They shifted something in my spirit that made me relinquish my will, my might, and say, you know what, I'm good.But Kay, his name is Kelsey.I talked to Kelsey and like, bro, you ain't dying today.
40:56And I'm just, and he's just talking and I'm listening to him.And I can't even remember everything that he said.But it was the first time throughout that six-hour standoff that I was even receptive to anything anyone else was saying.Tina, this is one of my friends' moms.I talked to her multiple times that day.She was pleading with me too.There was a lot of people that was trying to get through,but because you're receiving so many phone calls,
41:29they're not getting through.I talked to my homie little screw.He said,bro, I don't care what you're talking about.Put that gun down and come out.And it wasn't so much his words, but what it did to my spirit.Then the last one was my homie dokey.Same thing.
42:07Then they bring my mom to the side of the building.They put a bulletproof vest on her and a blowhorn.And they allow her to speak to me.That was enough.One of my cousins, I called him, we talked.He said, take off your clothes.If you see the images online, I have on gym shorts and no shirt.shirt. I had on pants. I had a hoodie on. I had clothes on. But I removed my clothes. So they wouldn't be
42:39able to say he had a gun when he was coming out. And even after I made the decision that I wasgoing to come out, bro, I was so terrified. I'm like they're going to kill. I shot at them. They'regoing to kill me. Thinking about Dub. That's Aaron. I'm thinking about his situation. I don't evenknow how I got the courage to come around that corner.But I looked at, I looked at Mike and I told him, I'm going out.I discharged the clip from my gun, put it on the table, took everything off.And the way it is, is when you're walking out, they can see me before I can see them.And just in my heart of hearts, I just knew when I turned this corner, it's over.
43:47I'm walking, probably the slowest I've ever walked.And as I'm coming around this corner, you see eight to ten SWAT members, beams all over my body,and I'm just sitting there in shock, didn't move.One comes up, grabs me, cuffs me, turns me around.They walk me outside to the side of the building.I remember my mom's still being right there.She hugged me and kissed me.Love you.
44:30I love you too.And everyone went crazy.When they saw me come out of there, when they knew I wasn't going to die,uproar, jubilation, just the celebration was, it sounded like,it sounded like the Broncos won the championship.But I kid, like they went crazy.And in that moment, everything was shocking to me because there's so much going on.I'm trying to take in everything.
45:04Again, I did not know how big this situation was.Put me in the cop car and take me downtown.I get to the police station.They put me in a holding tank.This is before I went to the jail when I told you what the sheriff said.They bring me out and they put me in a room.with this beautiful that she was beautiful and being a young man i i feel like i knew exactly whatthey're doing i'm like oh they think they're gonna butter me up with her she was beautiful
45:45and and i knew what they were doing when she told me she was a homicide detective said you'reno one died she says i know but i want to talk i have nothing to talk to you abouti said i have nothing to talk to you about she said just think about it for a little bit i'll be backshe leaves and she comes back.And I said, look, I'm never getting out of jail anyway.I have nothing to talk to you about.They put me back in the holding tank.Then 15 minutes later, they bring me back out.
46:24They said, Detective once I said, I just told you I don't want to talk to her.They said, no, this is another detective.They take me in the room.He says, what's up, Tavion?He said, we've just been waiting for you to get caught.He sits up, he puts out the pictures of these robberies.And I'm looking, like, that ain't me.He said, oh, it's you.
46:50And we're going to get you for all of them.I don't have anything to talk to you about that's when they took me over to the jail.One thing I've learned from doing this podcast is just how much the things we experience in life can affect our mental health.I've sat across from people who've spent decades behind bars and law enforcement officers who've witnessed some of the most horrific things you could imagine.And something that comes up over and over again is how those experiences can stay with you long after they're over.But here's the thing, even when somebody realizes they need help, actually finding a psychiatrist who takes their insurance and isn't booked out for months can be a whole different struggle.And that's where today's sponsor,Talkiatry, comes in.
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48:39More than 300,000 patients have already found high-quality psychiatric care throughtachiatry.Head to tachiatry.com slash locked in to complete the short assessment and get matched withan in-network psychiatrist in just a few minutes.That's T-A-L-K-I-A-T-R-Y-D-R-Y.com slash locked in to get matched in minutes talkiatry.com slash locked in now you mentioned that they wereshooting inside the radio shack uh-huh why would they do that when there's a uh um what's it calleda victim inside or a hostage inside um i can't say i can't say i mean you've been being shot at
49:27I think that that's probably part of it.It gets to a point where I'm sure it's like when it's all said and done,their well-being probably matters the most, right?Like that's the top priority, though I'm sure the goal is for Christopher,who was the hostage, to come out of here, unscathed.They also wanted to protect themselves.What were your official charges once they formally charged you?Oh, I had over, right?
49:57over 34 charges. 24 of them were attempted murders on officers. I had robbery, a couplecounts of robbery. I had kidnapping. I had some COVs crimes of violence enhancers.Yeah. Did you find out how the cops got there so quick? Yep. Somebody saw us going in.I mean, you guys are in broad daylight and probably with masks, right? Somebody saw us going in.What was it, like in a strip mall or a standalone?It was a shop, but it was a small shopping center.It's one of those shopping centers where this is on the corner.You have like a payroll little place in the middle.
50:39And then you have a small convenience store.So there's only three establishments.And you guys lock the door as soon as you go in?No, he just controlled the front.I go straight to the back.No, didn't lock the door.Do you have a plan if a customer walks in?Never dealt with that.
50:57I don't even think.again, when you're young, you got it all figured out.These robberies were so sophisticated, right?No, we've never had a conversation about what happens when a customer comes in.And I think that part of that is it's so quick.You would think that we were in there for five minutes.I can assure you that we were in there for all of.And this is me dropping the stuff at the car, three minutes, maybe four minutes.
51:29maybe four max, we were moving.It's just when they get that call and they're in that area, you're done.When you're caught red-handed like that, what do you even do when it comes to fighting your case?Are you just taking the first deal they give you or because you can't go to trial, right?Man, yes.And no.The first deal was offered was 50 years.Okay, you can't take that.
52:06My lawyer comes to me with a 50-year deal.I said, you're kidding me.Six months later, he comes back.He says, okay, 40 to 50.We had it out.Like, I'm crying.I call my mom after that legal visit and tell him to fire him.I said, 40 to 50, they're still going to give me 50 years.
52:29I'm not going to prison for 50 years.I said, before I take that deal, I'm going to go to trial, and they can just give me life.Because I'm never going to get out with that amount of time.He looks me in my eyes.And he says, listen to me, Tavion, when I took your family's money, I thought I can get you a 20-year deal.It's become abundantly clear that you're not getting a 20-year deal.He says a time is going to come when we're going to sit in this exact room and you're going to sign a number and it's going to be a big number.I'm letting you know that you're going to sign.
53:12I went crazy.I went and called my mom.Fire him.I felt like he was working against me.I didn't know how the law worked.That's the thing.When you're out there committing crimes and hidden licks,I knew I can go to prison.
53:29Nobody ever told me what the statue was.I never knew that 16 to 32 or 16 to 40.I didn't know any of those things existed.Obviously, I can go to prison.I didn't know how much time I was facing.And so those numbers were crazy because I was just living like anybody else.Aside from hustling, I was just doing what anybody else does.Going out to the clubs, going out to the malls, going out to eat.
53:58Then nine months later, eight months later, they're talking about 40 to 50.I said, absolutely not.I'm not doing that.It just didn't make sense to me.And John, this is my lawyer, he arranged where I was able to have a conversation with the prosecutor.And this was after they finally came with a better deal, which was 30 years.So what happened was he tells me they're going to offer you a 30-year deal.I go back to the pod and I talk to SG, SG's one of those dudes that's been in prison, you know,
54:51law libraryyou know how that goesandI'm likewhat you thinkhe says you can do thatI said how can I do itand he sat down
55:05and hehe busted it downyou're going to start offat 75%you have a violent crimeyou're going to have to dothis amount of timehe says
55:15you're going to get outin your early 30sI'm 19 I looked at himwhat are youmean in my early 30s?I'm like, you can walk it down.Walk it down.What does walk it down me?
55:28Walk what down?It's not going to get no better than this.You need to take this.So I end up having the meeting with my lawyer and a prosecutor and he told me straight up.He told me he doesn't remember saying this.But in short he said, I'm giving you this deal because you're going to have to serve16 and a half years just to be eligible for parole because on a 30 you think 75 that's 22 and some change rightthat puts you at a place where I'm going to be able to see parole after 16 and a half years and he says I'm going to give you this because robbing it be out of your system you will never rob a person again
56:12I knew the deal wasn't going to get any better and I knew again through this I was so naive throughout this entire period becauseI'm still not understanding how big this is.And then I talked to my cousin Darius,and he slipped and he said something.And he doesn't know.It crushed my spirit because this is when I realizedhow bad my situation was.He says, bro, we was going to attorneys
56:47and they wouldn't even take our money.They told us that we couldn't do my mom,my cousin, my uncle, my,they were going to attorneys and attorneys were.him there's nothing I can do for himwhen an attorney won't take your moneyyou were in a fucked up positionso at that point it's
57:15take a number that you can live withand I didn't even think I can do a 30but I signed that dotted linewas there an option to cooperate againstyour co-defendant at allthere's nothing to cooperate againstfor maybe past robberies or work out some kind of dealno there's no
57:41we were caught red-handed.There was nothing to,and another part of the case,this was another thingwhen I knew I was done.Now I'll make a connect.My lawyer came to see me in the beginning,and I'm gonna be honest with you now.
58:03I was lying to him.Yeah, he's my lawyer,but I didn't fully trust himand we ended up having an argumentbecause he comes in,And then this is when I was able to see the projections from all the bullets, from when I shot, from when they shot, whatever.And he said, the DA said, whoever shot first is more culpable.Because they don't believe that the situation would have escalated to that level without that first shot being fired.
58:37This is a simple robbery.I wasn't going to tell him that I shot first.He knew.And he was, he said, when you shot, where were you aiming at?I said they were just running in the door.I didn't pick a body partner.I didn't pick a spot in the wall.I didn't pick.
59:03I was just,I just shot in their direction.And so from that moment,I knew I was done.But it wasn't,there was no out of this situation.This was one of those situations where this is what it is.And quite frankly,
59:36even with an option like that,that's not an option.That's not an option, right?It was just coming to terms with the fact thatyou're going to prisonand you don't know when you're getting out of prison.Were you with your co-defendant at all?In course?
01:00:03Yeah.One time, once for a period of time.But you didn't get to talk to himwhile you're working out the pleas and everything?No, no. We weren't talking. We may have written a few times. No, we did write a few times. I remember they had just released an article and they put them in it because at the time the director of Colorado Prisons was killed. He was killed by a 211. That's a prison gang.And after that killing, they released the article of all these individuals who had recently gotten out of jail, a prison, and was involved in like some type of high profile type of situation.And I remember writing him after that at that period of time when I seen his name in the news.And we had talked a few times, but now I think that we were just figuring out what, how is it going to fall for you?
01:01:08What are you going to...We're going to prison.What are you going to take?And I think we're both just trying to fight to figure out a number that is something that we can live with.What does the judge end up giving you?30 years.So he goes with the plea deal?Absolutely.
01:01:25Now, when you calculate the math on that afterwards, how long do you expect to serve?My second week in prison, I go see my case manager, Ms. Gonzalez.I'll never forget how that made me feel.I walk to the back, sit down, we go over everything.I inquire about the visiting list, how everything works out, and say, what's my PED,pro-eligibility date?It's June of 2013.I just did nine months in the county jail.
01:02:11She says, 2035.When I got up out of her chair, I walked back to that pot.Lifeless.At the time, I was hanging out with this older dude.His name was House, heavily.Good dude.He was one of those guys who was showing me the ropes.This is what you do.
01:02:49This is what you don't do.This is how you do your time.This is how you stay out through all those type of things.He said, House.He said that my PED is in 2035.He said, Tavion, don't focus on that.You can't look at that.Boy, don't be, don't focus.
01:03:06He's from Chicago.Don't focus on that, Tavion.I went upstairs and I sat on that bunk.I might not ever get out of here.My parole eligibility at that point in timewas further out than how long I had been alive.How do you come to terms with that?I don't know what to do.
01:03:47What prison did they send you to?I started off at Bent County, a private prison.which is worse because in privates there's no programming all you have is time poker i didn't playpoker i was already hipped i told you s g the dude that broke down the numbers and told me that i'mgonna do this amount of time he wrote me a list of dudes and do not and this is what you get andtold me pills poker punks we don't do none of those right and so onin Ben County with nothing but idle time. I did my first three years there, and I got kicked out of there.What did you get kicked out for? I got kicked out for. There was a female officer who she played me.
01:04:51Yeah, Ben County was aAnd that prison wasWhat we call wide openEverything's thereI got choseRightOne day I'm in the potAnd I go out to wreck
01:05:15With my boy YGAnd when we come back inHe tells me he's likeHey TayeShe was asking me what pod you were inAnd mind you, I had seen this particular guard.We've made eye contact, but I'm still naive.I'm really still not hip to the fact that this is what comes with being in prison.
01:05:44Well, when she comes in, when she comes in, she goes into the bubble.And I just knew I'm like, this is my shot.So I put up my curtain, I pulled up the chair, I took a deep breath, and I hit the button.And she says, yes?I said, what's up?I'm so scared.She said, what's up?I shoot something in her way, letting her know that I'm into her.
01:06:34She gets quiet.She says, I feel the same way.I said, okay, before you leave, I'm going to write you.I write this little letter.Before I leave, I slip it to her.Well, her, can I tell you, all the guards there was playing both sides, all of them.It was her and three or four others that worked the unit that were also, but I've always been greedy.And one has never been enough.
01:07:09This is the truth.and so when I startwhen she and I start talking on a more consistent basisand you know developing whatever this is that's brewingthere was another one who came aroundand I started trying to develop an eye for what this looks like likewhich ones will and will not and I knewalready knew what she was into
01:07:37and so I go into the office one dayand I'm getting a pass to the library.And she looks at me, she's smiling.She's like, what do you want to pass for?I said to say whatever I want to say.That's it.She knew I was talking to the other one.It wasn't a secret.
01:08:03But there was another one.It was another one.I learned these things later on over timebecause, you know, guys move around.I move facilities.You figure out what happened after you left.And she told her, write him up.So that night, the sergeant comes and pulls me in and she says, hey, what happened when?
01:08:23I said, nothing happened to what you're talking about.I was really baffled.I didn't do anything.What are you talking about?She's like, okay, we had to go talk to shift command.I go upstairs in the room with beans.This is one of my guys.I knew they were coming back.
01:08:40I lookedA door poppedI'm like all right broThey came they cuffed meThey took me to the holeAndI knew I was leaving whenOne of the lady officers came
01:09:04And knocked on my doorAnd she was likeI'm upset with youExcept for whatHe says your pending transferSo when you're in the holeAt that point in timeThey can only keep you in the hole
01:09:15For like 30 days at a timewithout some type of just a security justification.She told me I was pending transfer.I knew I was leaving facilities.And they sent me to Sterling.Everything changed then.In the private facilities, do you have to click up with gangs at all?Or is it operate different than a regular?
01:09:44I mean, I think it's the same as the state.But honestly, I think it's case by case.A lot of this depends on who you.you are and where you come from.And that determines decisions that you can and you can't make because not everybody goesin the prison and is clicking up and, you know, I was definitely impressed with a lot of myhomies for sure.But at the same time, well, not in the beginning, but a few years into my journey, I started
01:10:22just doing my own thing.I made decisions that I got to start making some different decisions.And part of that is we ain't going to be hanging out.every day. It's still love when I see you, but I started making some hard decisions a coupleyears into my journey. How was Sterling for you? Game changer. Game changer. I got there, thefacilities on lockdown, just had a riot. Everyone knows Sterling, Buny, Lyman, these are the threenotorious prisons. I was terrified the entire way.I messed up. I had it made. I'm in Bent County. No problems. And I'm in A&O waiting to get shipped to a pod. And I told myself, this just is what it is. We're going to figure it out. We're here now. There's no going back. They're not transferring you back. You did that. Sterling had a few killings a year or two prior to that. So again, you hear whisper.
01:11:42of these things, regardless of where you may find yourself.And so for me, it was a different level of seriousness, right?I'm there for a week.Remember my first week, we probably went on lockdown four or five times.That never happened at being like very seldomly.Something would happen, they lock you down.And the way they lock you down in Sterling is the light shuts off.The lights shut off, that being go to the sale and go to the sale right now.
01:12:14I started learning how to do time in Sterling.In Ben County, I was just getting by.But in Sterling, 80, 90% of these dudes are not going home.When I was in Ben County, a pod would turn over every month, two months.There would be four or five of us that would be in there.In Sterling, you can be cellmates with somebody for 20 years.Them dudes are there to stay.And so conversations changed.
01:12:48I started being introduced to a different caliber of individuals who have been journeying for a very long time.And I got a glimpse of that at Ben County.My first mentor, Shakur, by far the most well-rounded, the smartest.This duel was special.When I say special, years and years ago, if we were in the hood, Shakur would have been a big homie.In prison, Shakur taught every class.In prison, Chakur had one of the best physiques that you can find.Chakur was an intellectual giant.
01:13:31He was revered by everyone.He was respected by everyone.He was, man, he was amazing.And that was one of the things that I was beating myself up about like, dang, just when he started to pour into you.The first book I ever read, I read because of him.He told me to get this book and read this book.And as soon as he started coming to a point to where he was,come seek me out. He seemed that I was valuable and that I was worthy of the investment and he
01:13:58would come find me and he would drop little things on me and I left and go to Sterling and there'squality dudes there but there ain't no Shakur. Chakur was different but being around those caliberof individuals heightened my awareness of also what was possible in terms of educating yourself andand how you can use this time to grow and evolveand truly become something, right?Like, you don't have to leave here the way that you came here or worse.So aside from the violence and that part of it,I appreciate it the substance.
01:14:44Because if you got a dude who has been in prison for 10, 15, 20,sometimes 30 years,who isn't in there succumbing to,the ways of prison, that being the drugs and all the weak avenues that people take to cope withthe time when they've been facing it sober-mindedly and head-on, you develop a differentlevel of character. You develop a different level of emotional and mental fortitude, right?And these are the people that took a liking to me. These were the people that were pouringinto me. And so it was a double-edged sword because, yeah, you're definitely going to be
01:15:21exposed to the elements and that at any point in time this is possible but it also provided mewith the opportunity to start figuring out who are you for real like when we sit everything else asidewho are you and so i started going to go eat alone for me that was that was like a minor flexbecause I wasn't ostracized in a way where you can't come around.I wasn't going around and hanging out every daybecause everybody was still talking the same.Everybody still had the same habits.Wasn't nobody educating themselves.
01:16:02They were doing the same things.And a lot of these dudes had these short bids.And that's what made prison.And that particular point in time so difficult was,I was already on an island.I'm alone.and the only people that you knoware the people that come from your neighborhood,
01:16:20from your hood,but they're still living the same life.And I had to make decisions that I was going to fall back.There was still a mutual respect.It wasn't like we didn't talk to each other,but just on a daily basis,I opted to take the lone warrior path.And I was alone for a lot of my time.
01:16:43I was just doing my thing, trying to really figure out who I was and who I wanted to be.Then, how was I going to turn myself into that person?Because it's one thing to encounter someone who has characteristics and attributes that you admire.It's another thing for you to be able to develop that for yourself.I'm meeting all of these men in prison and realizing that I'm not a man, right?I like the way he talks.I'm going to develop my vocabulary.I like the way that he teaches and the way he speaks in public.
01:17:21I'm going to develop that ability.Right, and little by little, you just start putting this puzzle together.You start figuring out how you can become the person that you want to be.And who is that person you wanted to become?The best version of me possible.The best version of me possible.And I mean that for,every realm of my life.
01:17:43Physically, I wanted to get in great shape.Mentally, I wanted to be so razor sharp.I remember I used to call home.I used to be impressing my family.Oh, man.I used to call home and I learned a word.I'd be like, yeah, you know, I'm just in here, you know,not trying to exacerbate my life.
01:18:09Hey, hey, just throwing words in there.But that was me trying to show my family.I'm really trying.I really want to be better.And it's funny because over years,you start really learning how to use these wordsand how to be more articulate.And they start paying attention to it.
01:18:28I'm like, bro, your vocabulary is growing.I'm like, yeah, it better be.But it was just the best version of myself, man.And I didn't even know what, I don't think anybody really understands what the ideal version of them is like because today you can say, I want to, I want to be like this in six months. Then in six months, as you're striving towards that, you realize that you can take it further than that. There's no cap to our potential. And I think that's what's so amazing about this human experience. The only cap is the cap that you set. So why are we capping anything? Like, why don't we just get to a point to where we just say,let's see how far I can take it.Let's be as extreme as possible with everything.Why not make as much money as possible?Why not get in the best shape as possible?
01:19:19Why not have the best relationships as possible?Why not be so spiritually in tune with God as possible?Like, take that thing to the furthest extent.And that's what it was.When I was on the streets and I was hitting legs, I was an extremist.When I was jumping over counters and putting guns in people's face, I was an extremist.So why should I not be that extreme about my growth and development?And so there was this shift where I said, I got to hunker down.
01:19:46And I started reading 80, 90, 100 books every single year.Business, psychology, philosophy, you name it.I am devouring these books.Not so I can say I read 100 books a year, but rather because I realized that I wasn't able to live the life that I wanted to live prior to prison.because there was information that I lacked.When you look at anyone, no matter where they may find themselves in life,the only thing that they're missing from where they are that gets them to where they want to be,the bridge is the information, right?
01:20:24Growing up in the hood, they call the hood food deserts.But I tell people all the time, they were also information deserts.We live in a very different time now.We live in the information age where you do have the YouTube and you have Google and there's information overload.It's everywhere.It wasn't always that way.I didn't come from a household where there were plaques on a wall and there was thesecertifications from these prestigious colleges.
01:20:46And so aspire to what?Why would I aspire?Yeah, my mom said go to school, but wasn't nobody going to school.I had never had that demonstrated from somebody that I looked up to and somebody that I sawon a day-to-day basis.And so do you really think that that's accessible?Absolutely not.But when I realized how important education was, I became extreme about it.
01:21:12And that became my way out.That was my escape.Frederick Douglass said that education was his launch path from bondage to freedom.It was mine too.I wasn't in prison.I wasn't in prison all those years.And I tell that to people all the time, but like, you seem like you just transitioned so well.And it's just been, I wasn't in prison.
01:21:35I've been all over the world.I've been in corporate boardrooms, literally,with Sam Walton's and Walt Disney's and Steve Jobs.And when I'm reading these books,I'm living vicariously through their experience.I'm not just extracting the nuggets.I'm also placing myself there.And they were exposing me to life.
01:22:01They were exposing me to the fact that I could do these things too.right? But as a kid, none of that was a possibility. I hadn't been exposed to any of that,right? And so that was, that was the biggest component, educating myself, learning something,because this started giving me a different level of confidence that maybe you don't have to get out ofprison and do the same thing. Maybe you can actually get out of prison and make something happen foryourself and do something with your life. And that was encouraging. Were you actively trying to getyour sentence reduced or no, there was nothing to do. There was nothing. What was I going to do? I took adeal. So that's what makes my story unique is that typically when a person gets a 23rd, let me go,
01:23:03When a person gets a five-year sentence, they go into prison and cut up.A 30-year sentence, I had some dudes tell me like, bro, that's life.So usually they go into prison and it's just whatever.They're going to try every drug because the time's hard and you're going to be presentedwith so many opportunities to do it, whether it's when you call home and they say,yeah, your grandma's dead or your best friend got killed.killed or when you find out that something tragic has taken place, a lot of dudes find thoseas opportunities to say, you know what, I'm done.
01:23:45Let me just figure.And they immerse themselves in that and they find themselves enchained in that.I didn't want that for me, right?And so to go into prison, to not have an identity, to start figuring out my identity,to commit myself to this path of growth, of elevation,of self-development, and to then, man, to then find myself in a place where I'm now the asset,who is mentoring others, who is teaching classes, who is earning certifications frommultiple universities, who is publishing books, who is writing screenplays, who is developing
01:24:33curriculums. That was phenomenal, right? And I did all of that in what I felt was a hopelesssituation because I had every reason to do none of it because there was no real light at theend of the tunnel. But had I gone in and done that, I wouldn't be talking to you right now.I would still be inside. And I think that's just the power of being hopeful. Hope is a sustainingvirtue, if nothing else, remain hopeful, no matter how bleak it is, because life gets dark.We go through real things, right? No one chooses for their kid to commit suicide.No one chooses for their spouse to divorce them and leave them for someone, right? No one wakes up andsays, you know what I want today? I want the business to crash. But these are all inevitabilities.
01:25:30These are things that we're going to face in life.And when they do come, what are you going to do about it?How are you going to deal with that?And I just tell a person, just remain hopeful because the hope got me through.It got me to the next day.I didn't know how I was going to get through the next year.But if I can get to the next day, then I'm okay.And so that just became my goal.
01:25:50Get through the day.Why are you busying yourself with something that may not come?The majority of people in life, what are they doing?Focusing on problems that they have no.control over, right? Worrying about things that may not ever come, at least allow the thingto come before you stress about it. I just wanted to get through the day. And I just startedgetting through the day. I went eight with my friend Reggie the other day. And he said, bro,13 years is a long time. I said, I know. But I didn't do 13 years in one day. I did one day
01:26:34at a time. So now if you got 30 years and your parole wasn't until the early 2030s, how do youget out after only 13 years? So what happens is you get earned time and achievement time. So as you'retaking classes, it comes down, right? You are, you get 10 days a month. Then you take seven habits,or you take anger management, and there's 30 days, and there's 10 days. And so you can earnmore time. I still was going to be in prison for a while, even earning all that time. That was justgoing to get me to the place where I was going to serve 16 and a half years before I was eligible forparole. About 11 years into my journey, I was laying down and I heard Steve, my prosecutor's words,I'm giving you this because after 16 and a half years, Robin, it would be out of your system. You wrong.
01:27:44I'm so far from that boyI'm so far from himand I started looking at all the raw materialsI had all of these certificationsfrom these collegesI had taken all of these classesI had done so much workand I did this for me
01:28:03I never did any of this believingthat it would give me an opportunityto be it out of prisonbut if I so did get a chance to get out of prisonI would be able to live a different lifeI said I got to put togethera portfolio. And there was this, we called him like the computer wizard. His name is Dante. He helped mein terms of the actual formulation of the portfolio because I wanted to humanize it. I had this idea of
01:28:29every border, I would include an image of me, my family members, things that I've been doingjust to give him a glimpse of me. I wanted him to really, really feel me. Then I had everybodywrite letters, all of my professors, friends, family members. So it ended up being 71 pages,and I do have it with me. I had over 30 character letters. I had all 80 certificates of achievement.I had published one book at the time, but I was just about to release a three-part childrenseries, which I did release. And then I had a one-year re-entry plan. And then I had all the servicesthat are available to me in terms of reentry.Packaged beautifully,
01:29:13I made two copies and sent them to a friend,and she first classed them to the head prosecutor at the time,who was Beth McCann,other than to Steve, sent them to both.Then that following day, I wrote them up.I had a letter.I typed it up, though, and I sent it to him.Did I expect to hear back from him?
01:29:40Absolutely not.I just needed him to know.I am not that little boy.But then, I have the letter.I can...I woke up two weeks laterwith the letter wedged between the door.And in short, he said,
01:30:06Mr. Williams, I remember youand I remember your case vividly.He said, very rare does a person start where you start and end up where you are.I'm writing to let you know that I intend to support your efforts for an early release.I don't know what the mechanism is going to be and how we're going to get it done due to there being so much time since you've been sentenced.And I started bawling.Balling.It's five in the morning.
01:30:36I popped the door.Go out.my guy yons he's downstairs and i go and i show him it looked at me he said you surprisedi looked at him like you ain't what he was saying is bro you've put the work in we see you everysingle day we see how hard you've worked how hard you fought call my mom cried i don't evenWe don't even know how this is going to happen or if it's going to happen.I contact this attorney.The name's Jonathan Rapucci, phenomenal attorney.
01:31:29And I call and we hit it off.He's listening to me.He's like, Tavion, I'm impressed with you.We talked for an hour.I called back to back to back.We only spit 15, 20 minutes talking about the situationin terms of him representing me.He tells me that he'll represent me.
01:31:53but he does not do pro bono work.You're going to have to pay.So I start contacting friends and family members, obviously,getting money together.And he still, he did something for methat he probably wouldn't do for anyone else,forever indebted to him.And he begins representing me.
01:32:17Two weeks later,he had to sit down with Steve and just get in the train rolling.I want to say it took 13, 14 months.I end up getting resentenced.We changed the 30 to a 24.I've served enough time to be eligible for a 24.I'm out of prison, right?No.
01:32:55I get resentenced.I keep, every damn calling my brother.Check time, comp.Check time.Because that's D.L.C.M.A. Locator, you can check your time.and it's not changing.I didn't call one day.
01:33:11And my MRD changed, but my PED didn't change.MRD being my mandatory release date.So obviously it changed because I now have a 24.But my PED was the same.This isn't making sense.My lawyer says he's going to contact time comp.Try to get this all worked out.He contacts time count, waiting here or something.
01:33:39write them, then we received the news.Well, yes, he does have a 24-year sentence now.But we made a mistake.He has two violent crimes, which means that the COVs,he's not eligible for the good time and the earned time that he's earned.So the five years of good time and earn time, he no longer gets that.So what they're telling me is that I'm supposed to do my sentence day for day.I don't get good time and earn time.
01:34:18Devastating.These are those moments when you really figure out who you are.Right?Like, I have been working so hard.I've done everything that I can do.And they stripped me of my, I didn't sleep well for a while.And this was after my lawyer and Steve told me, we'll figure it out.So I figure it out.
01:34:51I was just about to be home.So my lawyer comes back and they made it easier for us this time because now we can just file a 35C.That'd be an ineffective assistance because if I would have never signed a deal that I was going to do day fora day on a 30. That may, they would have had to give me a 10 year deal or something. I would havenever signed that deal. Go back to court. You can get resentenced. Again? I had to do it a,I had to do it a second time. I wasn't going to get out. I wasn't going to get out. So we had to findanother mechanism for me to get, you can't, you can't just go back and just get resentenced justbecause. What was the, the mechanism for the second one? 35C. So the first one was, I mean the first one,
01:35:55A 35B.So you can file a 35B, but they did it out of time.So typically if a person files a 35C and it's out of time, it's going to be opposed.What was so different in my situation was the prosecutor.Did not oppose it.Okay.So now the second one you go in and you get resentenced.Yeah.
01:36:17And what does that go down to?All it is.So the only thing that we changed when I got resentenced was we changed the,actual charges. So instead of it being a COV, it was like a simple robbery or something like that. And whatthat did is, it made it to where I no longer had a COV. So you have to give me my earn time and good time.And we ran. He talked to the supervisor, the head people at TimeComp and ran this by them. If we get hischarges change to this, will he be able to get his earn time and achievement time back? They said yes.go back and get resentenced and all so nerve wracking because after two weeks after i got resentenced
01:37:04it still hadn't changed i said again is this about to happen again but it worked brogo back and saw my p ed it was i don't know what was it nine months out which meant thatFor a violent case, you can put in for community corrections six months prior to UCM parole.And I knew I would get community corrections.So I started arranging my life, started getting everything together.I sent that same portfolio to the community corrections board because what better to speak for me than me,not just the black and white of all of these charges and the things that I've done.13 years ago, see me for who I am now, see me for the work that I've put in, see me for the
01:38:04individual that I've become.I wrote every single member on the community correction board.My brother goes to the hearing.I call.He played a game that you should never play.He picks up the phone.Bro.My heart sunk.
01:38:31Like, man.You got it.bro, that five seconds of sightand he held it too long.To this day, it wasn't funny to me.That's one of those ones that was,I did not find any of that hilarious.12 days later, I was in community corrections.
01:38:56So when did you get released?February 25th of this year.2026.Correct.And that was into a halfway house.Correct.What was it like getting out after 13 years?The halfway house,
01:39:10Well, the halfway house, it tested me immediately.I didn't sleep my first three or four days in there.In prison, you got all of these rules.After 10, you can't make noise.Don't do this.Don't do that.But it's structure and it works.You go to the halfway house, and it's not like that.
01:39:28You only have a small portion of guys in the halfway housewho have done time in prison.A lot of these guys are direct sentences.And so they know anything about the politics, but you're institutionalized.And so you're still stuck in the prison mind frame.So you're expecting the halfway house to be organizedand for these dudes to be abiding by the lay of the land.And it's not like that.
01:39:49I go lay down my first night at 10.30.The dude that there's six people in the room, including me,the dude that lives on the left of me on the below,he has his laptop open watching a Netflix series.It's loud.The dude on the other side is on FaceTime on speaker.And I'm on my mom.What are these dudes doing?
01:40:12Don't they know that they should be?I laid down.I realized I wasn't going to go to sleep.I got up and I went out into the front.And then I started having an internal dialogue.This is what you asked for.They didn't come to, you came to the halfway house.You need to be adapting and adjusting to this environment.
01:40:37They shouldn't be adapting and adjusting to you.And so as I started encountering adversities,no matter how minor they were, I was telling myself, adapt and adjust.Adapt and you figure it out.It's up to you to figure it.It's not on anybody else to have this figured out but you.And so for me, I started learning how to live in that environment.In terms of leaving the halfway house in the world, it just looked different.
01:41:08I truly believe that life is mental, all of it.and I'm such a resilient individual.I am, I have been, I was just in a situation where I had to constantly adapt, adjust, adapt, prison changes nonstop.I didn't think I was going to have a problem adapting to the world.And so people would say, how are you transition?I'm like, what transition?It's all the same.I know how to use phones.
01:41:36Everything's the same.What wasn't the same is I had to start dealing with the emotional things that, you know,I wouldn't allow myself to access in that environment, you know, all of the deaths and just the real shit that you run from.Even in putting in all that work, I had to start unpacking some of that stuff.I haven't even said this, but I've cried more times in the last six months than I did in 13 years and six months in prison.And I cried in there when I can, in the shower, maybe a late night when the dude under you was sleeping.But it was like, I can be human again.I can feel again.
01:42:41I don't have to act like this.Doesn't matter.And that's been my biggest challenge, which is getting adjusted to being a human being.Because prison doesn't allow you to do that.That is not a place where too vulnerable.It doesn't serve you.And I realized that I had developed a way of being that allowed me to thrive in the carcoral setting.That if I continue to act out would be detrimental to me out here.
01:43:33And so I got a course correct.I got to start making different decisions.and it's still a strugglerelationallymy relationships with friendsthey don't look the way that I want them to lookyou knowlike everybody in prison thinks they're normal
01:44:40and I don't think of institutionalizationas something thathappens to youbecause you go to prisonit's what you do to survive prisonyou get in a disagreement with somebodyyou never talk againI'm having to relearn how to be in relationships
01:45:13and not just be the person that just seversbecause in there it's like that.What?Whatever.And you see a dude that you play dominoes with that you were,and we never speak again.And so in real time, being out here,and I haven't even had any major disagreements,
01:45:33but as you're just navigating that relational aspect,I'm still just, I like being alone.To some extent, I'll always like being alone, you know.But I think that from, just from a relational perspective,like that is probably been my biggest challenge.And, you know, I know everyone's trying to have graceand try to understand.And why it doesn't even want to spend so much time
01:46:09and why doesn't even want to hang out as much?It's not that we don't hang out.It's just not who they thought I was.It's a fact.Are you on parole still?Yeah.How long will that go on for?So I just met with my parole officer and no issues.
01:46:32I'll be done in 18 months.What about making peace with the victims?Done that with the main victim.I had the opportunity when we went through this process to write a letter to Chris.He got to see my portfolio.And when my prosecutor told him what he was going to do, he supported it.I don't get any points for this, but considering the situation,I was as kind as one can be in that store that day.
01:47:24And he remembered that.You remember, I told him, most of the, I'm not going to do anything to you.They didn't want to do it.you know that's one of the ones that uh you got to live with that you got to live with knowing thatno matter where you go in the world no matter how great you become no matter what you achieve nomatter what you do to that person that's who you are that's trauma right and i think that once istarted learning more about trauma and how it affects you, it may be all my decisions in adifferent way because I started realizing that it don't matter if it's 20 years since that
01:48:26incident has passed. People still live with those decisions. But I'm thankful that it wassupportive of me getting resentenced and that I have an opportunity to show that,him why that was a good decision. What is your plan now? What are you going to do? I came homewith the objective of building a national speaking brand. Since I've been home, I've had thepleasure of doing seven speaking engagements. There's others lined up. As I told you, I'vepublished four children's books, which are all available on Amazon. I have another three-partchildren's series that I'll be releasing here in the coming months. And then I haveyou know when you sit for that long bro there's a lot that i want to do but for me that was the
01:49:26most tangible in terms of just the order of operations where do we start building a speaking brandpublishing more books connecting with my family really just immersing myself in life and juststarting to really live that's what comes first and i've been doing that i've developed some reallyrelationships with different organizations around Colorado.And they call on me, they allow me to come in and interact with their student body, with somekids that have been.So there's one particular program.It's called HIP Handgun Intervention Program.
01:50:07And every one of these young men have been caught with a firearm.And so I'm able to go in there and speak from a place of lived experience.This isn't something that I read in the book.I've also been caught with gun.At your age. I've been there. And this is how this looks. I'm not going to never preach,but rather just allow my story to be the example. And it's going extremely well. It's goingextremely well. In addition to that, I have been built out my social medias on Instagram.I have roughly 10,000 followers. I'm building out my YouTube channel, Instagram, TikTok,
01:50:41every single day I'm posting videos, motivational, inspirational, 30, 45 second clips.just giving the world something that they can hold on to because life is real.And when it comes to offering a person strategies to overcome life, to be more resilient, tobounce back, everyone can benefit from it.From the corporate CEO to the professional athlete, to the kid, to the app.Name a person who can't benefit from being more resilient because life is going to bringyou adversities. You're going to deal with some real things. And you've got to be able to navigate thatsituation to the best of your ability as I'm doing right now. I'm being presented with challenges.
01:51:31The difference is, is I have a skill set. I have a tool belt that I can pull tools from them.Oh, this is what I need to do on this situation. And it's helped me thus far immensely.What would you tell your younger self?You could sit across from him today.My younger self, as is,you have everything you need.You have everything you needto go out in the world
01:52:09and be who you want to be,do what you want to do,live the life that you want to live on your terms.You don't need anyone else's validation.You don't need anyone else to stamp you.you are enough as is.You have everything that you need right now.So stop looking out to the world and start looking into yourself.
01:52:35Because it lies within.The answer is within.Which is why we always say, know thyself, right?Well, I appreciate you coming on the show today, brother.Absolutely.Yeah, and welcome home again.And, you know, I wish you the best in your endeavors going forward.Thank you.
01:52:54Thank you.
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