Listen Bitch! Sorry I’m Late (with Zawe Ashton)
00:00Guys, I'm going to be transparent from the top.In the meet-y-drop episodes,I mean, we spoke a lot.It was hard to reel it in.And subsequently,don't have that much time to record.Time to record, listen, bitch.About time.
00:16I love that for us.We're just, we're meta.It's going to be a bit of a speed run.Let's do it.Are you okay with that?Time is a concept.I'll say that for my next meeting, actually.You know, time doesn't exist.
00:28What you're annoyed aboutIt's not even a fucking thingOkay coolLet's kick off with the first questionCome onThis is LaurenI'm originally from BoltonBut I'm now based up in Hebden Bridge
00:39I was just thereAnd I on a personal levelI'm perpetuallyLike now professionallyIt's not a problemI always managed to kind of likeMake it to meetings on timeAnd start my working day
00:51When I'm meant toBut personally I am a fuckerFor showing upanywhere between five to 15 minutesit's late. I used to be a lot worse, but it really like pissed off a friend of mine whoinstantly is perpetually early and that pissed me off too. So yeah, we spent a lot of timechatting about like why I was such a dickhead when it came to being there when I was expectedto be. And what it boiled down to was this idea that I'm so on it in other areas of my life,
01:23like always organised, always thinking ahead, always being really considerate of others. So when itcame to my time, it seems as something in like a mini rebellion or a mini fuck you to other people'sexpectations. So yeah, I'd love to know if other people experience this or do this as a kind of wayof like pushing back against what other people expect of them. Is this something that has shown upin your lives? Yeah, I'd love to know. Good question. Deep start. Yeah. The he he, I mean,we haven't got much time so I'm just going to jump him.I used to be a perpetually late person.There was a strong self-sabotor
02:04that was at the wheel of my timekeeping.And I think underneath a lot of latenessis a fear of vulnerability.I realise actually like turning up early or on timeand maybe the other person not being therewas a sign of some weird deep relationship to vulnerability.And actually if you turn up like a bit flusteredand a bit late and that person's been waiting for you.
02:30It's a bit of a power.It's a bit of a power chip, you know?And it definitely, you are not in that vulnerable space.You are in a different space.But I just now look back and I realize it kicked off so many important eventsor meetings off in the completely wrong way.And I kind of feel sad for that me.Now that I'm a mom, I worry perpetually about being.
02:58being late. It's actually, I've gone the other way. I'm literally worried about being latewhen I wake up in the morning and the thing has, we're very many hours away from theyeah, yeah. And especially if I know it's an event for the children, turning up late to thingsas a child. Yeah, I had the same thing. Because you can't go, sorry I'm late, you're just alwayssort of missing the first bit and you're sometimes not, like you were saying about that senseof belonging. You sort of just exist in a liminal space in that event or that thing.until the end and you never really are able to land in the way that other children are able to land.Yeah, yeah, totally.
03:36I think I've got a history of not being very punctual.And I think if I'm being really honest, because so two things.Firstly, ADHD, interestingly, for many people, is just considered time blindness, like as, as a,as one way of looking at it, like not understanding.So for example, not understanding how long it would take, for example, to clean something or how long it would be until something would become really messy.Or like, if I have a plan, I often don't even consider what's involved in that plan until literally the day before.That is a thing that just continually happens.Like, I can have something in my diary or I can't imagine myself in the experience.
04:17So I don't, so for example, if I have to like buy a bunch of camping gear, I could, I could have camping in my diary for a month.and I won't think to actually buy the gear until like five days before because I'm just,it just hasn't occurred to me.You need the dopamine like, rough to go.I'm like this.Yeah, yeah, the shock.I'm like, I'm like this.But it was interesting because I also do think it's like in extreme.
04:39So for example, if I'm late for like a friend or late for like a usual thing or a normal thing,it's not because I don't want to be on time.It's because it's just in my usual part of my brain, which is often falls foul to things like time blindness.But where it gets confused or where people say, so one of the arguments is, well, you might have time blindness in your life, but why have you never missed a flight, right?And then the difference for me is if it's something like that.So if it's like a flight or let's say I'm like meeting with like a publisher that I'm really excited about whatever else, like you just said, the dopamine is so high that I won't stop thinking about it.There's like no in between.That I'm there going, I might turn out four hours early because I'm there like, I know one thing, I'm not going to miss that.
05:21You know, so I'm like there's extra attention on it because so it looks like I just care more about that and I don't care about the other stuff.But it's actually not that.It's just that has entered into a different space in my brain because it's like new or it's particularly exciting or whatever in the usual stuff.It's not that I don't like it.It's just that like it's fallen into like a clutter category where I have to remember to be more on it.You know what I'm saying?My manager actually has done an amazing thing where she sometimes just put.things as half an hour early than they are.
05:53And then I almost always turn up 15 minutes lateand then I'm 50 minutes early, which is a fucking dream.I'm so happy.It's such a lovely feeling.But it's so funny, in my really bad late days,even if I was like,I've really got to be there on time for this thing like a flight,I would get there like two hours earlier than I had to.
06:11But I would do things I would fuck around at the airport.Oh my God.And still almost sabotage.Oh my God, 100%.And then hearing your name being called,hearing your name being called and you're like,that's impressive.Oh my God, yeah.
06:23Hearing people,hearing whoever,you know,calls out the late people's namesand they're trying to say my full name,which is Zawedi,it's always like,would miss Z,
06:32mm.Would Zawada?They're like,this is good,this is buying me some time on the top.Yeah, yeah.Yeah, on the run to the gate.Yeah, and also one thing that really set me straight
06:45was when I first started therapy,I used to turn up five minutes late for therapyfive, ten minutes latefirst three, four monthsand I used to come in and I'd be like,I'm so sorry, I'm late, I'm just like, I just did it.And then eventually my therapist was like,why are you apologising?
07:00And I was like, well, because I'm late.I don't want to like waste your time, I don't know.And she was like, it's not my time, it's your time.I'll get paid anyway.It's your time.I'm not stressed.So I'll sit here on my phone.Like, you've paid to have my expertise for an hour
07:16and you've wasted your own time.Like, don't project it onto me.I'm not an authority.You have to hold yourself accountable.Do you want to spend this moneyand utilize all of it?And on my life,I don't think I was late the next session.
07:31That's what I'm saying.Yeah, no, that cuts extremely deep.I've had created an authority.I'd project some form of fucking parental shitonto my therapist.And the second I was gone,I was like, oh, do I want to be late for me?Not like will my therapist be upset if I'm late
07:47She doesn't careStraight up she doesn't give a fuckI'm trying to create a codependency with herAnd she's not interestedShe's literally not interestedIt's one of the most powerful things to be aroundWhen we're groping for that codependencyAnd the other person's like, not me
08:01She's like, time's up, see you next weekSliding down the cliff faceYou're like, but what do I do?Who knows?See you next WednesdayByeSee you next TuesdayI know, proper.
08:15Fuck me.All right, next question.Come on.My question for you is in relation to the perception of time,which I find interesting,how time can feel like it changes its form,depending on what we're doing.That it can, you know, whiz by when you're engrossed in something,
08:32enjoying something, but also go incredibly slowlywhen you're doing something you don't like,or, you know, sometimes it just happens.Even if you're enjoying the moment,you're like, oh, now time's going really slowly,day. I'm curious at what point in your day and in doing what activities for you both does time feellike it goes really, really quickly and in doing what does time feel like it goes really, reallysteady. Love you both and love the podcast so, so much. So that's a damn good quails to.
09:05That was a question, but I do just have a really boring answer because I listen to a whole podcast onthis. Go ahead. It really is as simple asit's your body's supply of dopamine.That's it.Like when you're actively being supplied forms of like a happy chemical timehas the sensation of moving faster because you're enjoying yourself.I know she put a caveat that like time moves slowly when she's enjoying something,which I would, I would be, I don't know if that's true.
09:35But like my case is, you know, heartbreak, for example, slow.Like days last for a very long timeAnd there's nothing like itAnd it's like and it's because you are getting no happy chemicals at allYou're like this is just slowBut yeah that's it was a scientist explaining thatYeah you know when we get those constantSo for example you know when you get I mean typically guys
10:07It's not always guys but you know get like gamersgamers can play what?four, five, six hours, it feels like they've played for 20 minutes because they're justconstantly, I mean, they eventually end up exhausting their kind of like fucking dopaminereceptors or whatever. But for that period of time, it's like, whoa, that's like.So things slow down and heartbreak for you. When do they go fast for you?Yeah, so gaming is an example of one I've done. I don't game loads, but when I did game,I remember thinking, fuck me, that was a lot of time. That went quick, yeah.
10:41I feel like when I'm when I there's so I struggle to read right and like I get theexperience of both when I'm reading so the me trying to pick a book up again whateverthat first chapter is going at a microseed if I hit yeah a theme or a situationexcites me an hour just gone you can accelerate yeah this is why I think I'muntyagnosed ADHD. I have this. I remember when this concept was introduced in a really kind ofmind-bending way when I was really little and was watching the chronicles of Narnia. Do you rememberwhen they go through the wardrobe and then they live this whole life? But when they go backthrough the wardrobe only a few minutes have passed and their family and the kids family is like,
11:32come down for dinner. And nothing's actually happened in that other realm. I remember thatexploding my mind at the time because I think I was experiencing life like that quite a bit as a small childagain maybe the undiagnosed something but I think I like this concept a lot time and I like whenthere's a convergence of those two things like I find that quite delicious like spending time withmy children I'm just going to say it on the summer holidays I'm just going to reach out to my parents handsright now my co-parent my other parentsout there. Time isgoing so slowly
12:12with the day just stretching outwithout any you knowany of the usual little routines happeninganyway so timesometimes the children is going soslowly and at the end of the dayI feel like it's been two minutesand I will
12:30once the children are asleep go and sit on myown and look at pictures of the dayI'm like I can'twait a time by myself.Time has been moving so goddamn slow.And at the end of the day, I'm like,but did the day happen?Mad.
12:45Like, I can't even really remember the thing.So any moments like that where I feel like I'm kind of likein the Narnia kind of space,I find quite interesting.So I'm going to say that is the summer holidays.I also think that, like, as I've got older,time just moves faster.I feel like years have gone so much quicker in my 30s
13:04than I did in my 20s.And I don't know.why that is but I just yeah when I when I think of things yeah like plans I can make I'm nowstarting to make plans much later on because I imagine it's I'm going to get there faster whereasbefore I'd be like what a plan in two months no way like I would be like I can't even think thatfar ahead you know I also want to quickly ask you have you ever done any psychedelics thathave changed your perception of time 100% because that time didn't exist where I waswhich is mad. It wasn't even a thing. I was just in forever. I was just in infinity.
13:42That's really interesting. I remember back in the day some mushrooms in a tea form,tincture form. Sorry, Mama Dad. But it was interesting. Time didn't become a concept.Things that had happened that had been painful in my life disappeared. AndAnd so I felt like I was living in a different time, on a different timeline, as an untramatized person.And I had experienced a lot of death, a lot of disease in the family, just a lot of trauma at a younger age.And I think that's also partly why I felt, I felt, partly why I felt, partly why I felt, I felt, I've, partly,held to even experiment in that way was because it felt like there must be a, could therebe a different timeline that I exist on without all of this baggage?
14:52And then of course he realizes it's only going to be a very short period of time thatyou are able to imagine that, but it's enough sometimes to carry it a bit lighter, I think.Yeah.Yeah, wow.Fasted. Yes. All right, come on, let's have another question.Hi, Jordan, and Zawi, and hi to Makita as well. I'm Josie from Leeds. I absolutely love the podcast.On the topic of time management, so my husband is Ethiopian and we've been together for about six years.And I've had to adjust to something basically called Ethiopian time, which is a,
15:41Essentially, everybody is late at everything, and that's just acceptable to the point where we told his family and friends, like, a different time for our wedding, which was earlier this year, like an hour before to try and make sure that everybody was there on time.And most of them were actually late and missed the walk down to the aisle and everything.And on the day, I didn't really care.I was just happy that everybody was there.But it is funny how culturally there's different approaches to things.And I think living in England is everybody's very.focused on rushing around being on time.So it's been a bit of an adjustment for me
16:16because I like being on time.And I was just wondering if you guys have ever had any clashesin approaches to time management with like friends,family and if this has ever caused any big issues or anything.Thank you.I think every mixed heritage person has the story of this.You are essentially in the centre of timeand it's cultural
16:40cultural clashes, I think.I mean, I would speak for myself.I think it's about,like my mum's Uganda,my dad's English,and there was so many stories like thatwhen my dad was panicking about going to a Ugandan weddingand arriving late
16:58and that's, and being the only people there at the late point.And then there was the different point,which is like what's actually happening nowwhen people are arrivingand then there's a different pointwhen the, sorry, the actual country,couple arrive, which is much, much later.I wonder, this might just be a complete, I don't know, this might sound weird.
17:17I think it's about the relationship to life and death.Wow.Sometimes this time clash thing, this cultural time clash thing,I think there is a respect to the natural order of things in,I would say certainly in African culture, talking about the generalized continent here,I'm not wanting to generalise the beautiful continent,but I think there is an acceptable,the aging process is respected.
17:47As you get older, you're more respected.That's the right way to respect time.To say this person with the lines on their faceis not now outcast from society.That is the person that we will go to to understand, you know, life.And whereas in the West,there's this disrespect of lifeand the way that it progresses
18:14that I find completely maddening.There is a shame aroundthe time that you spend on this planet.And I think,I wonder if there's something to thatin terms of those cultural clashes,that there's a deep unlearningthat people in the West need to have
18:34about time in general,not saying one is bad and one is good,but I think one is healthy and one is unhealthy.I remember reading a book.I read it at my friends flat in New York.I can't remember what it was called,but it was really interesting because it was literally exploring this.I'm sure it was called like the forgotten language or time
18:51and it's whatever.I don't know what the fuck.But they were basically theorising that individual cultures,subjective perceptions of time could have underpinned like things as seriousas like global conflicts, you know, or like or mass or deals or whatever else.like because a New York minute or whatever is different to like you say a Ugandan minute and if they have to like have some kind of meeting they take that as a disrespect to be late is a disrespect where in other cultures it just literally isn't disrespectful like they're just just like it's just part of it like your margin of error is much bigger and you've been raised like that and there's no stress about that and it's just like a difference it's just literally a different experience and expectation that's the most important word I think is it's a completely different expectation ofhow and this is more an immediate thingof like what time you should be there
19:40and then yeah like you say it extends toyou know beautiful things likeeldership and and umyeah just I can understandand even motherhood yeah and even motherhood yeah totallylike the disrespect formothers who decide to spendtheir time dedicated to the
19:59raising up of their childrenyeah isis the hustle culture you knowit's the system goingyour worth is only in relation to how busy you are.Yeah, crazy.How much time crunching?What have you produced today?
20:16Outside of a child.How much time have you crunched?Yeah, right?And not in terms of how much have you expanded a child's capacity for like joy or, you know,for life and thought.And there's something that I'm always at war.with indefinitely in that way. There is a there is a West versus the rest of the worldfight in me all the time when it comes to yeah when it comes to relationship to time so I
20:52empathise with what you're going through listener. I get that okay final question.Hello this is really odd because I'm messaging you from the bar my name's Polly and I live on theSouth Coast. I am someone who is chronically late to everything, meetings, parties,doctor's appointment, just everything. It's terrible. If I try to be early, I'm eitherridiculously early or if I try to be on time. I'm late anyway, so I'm at the point whereI've given up, really. In my last job, someone said to me that late people are optimistsbecause they try and do too much and they think they can achieve too much before being in acertain place or doing a certain thing.
21:35I think it can be argued both waysand fundamentallyjust depends on the person that you are.But what do you guys think?Optimists. It's really funny because Ibasically don't believe in optimism.I love that. I love that as a stance.That is hilarious.
21:59That's the first thing to get out of the way.How do you mean you don't believe in,as in you personally?Or you don't believe that anybody can be.I'm an extremely optimistic person,but this idea that I think it's the glass thing,the glass half full analogy.Why is the glass half full?
22:18Okay, no one pours half a glass and then walks away.Someone's drunk from the glass, guys.Let's just be really honest about it.And what I'm optimistic about is that someone will refill.Oh, you're going deeper.You're going, don't worry about the glass now.What is the jug?That's how optimistic I am.
22:37I've got a jug.I've got the jug, mate.Don't worry about the glass.I don't know.So, wait, so basically, I think it's safe to say that if somebody, if we're talking about subjective ideas of time,if somebody is deciding, and there's very much a societal Western script to support this,that respect can be reflected in punctuality.I think it's safe to say that that's a thing that people,
23:04think is normal. This person's point and many other voice notes which we haven't been able to getto is that surely, many people have this issue. Surely I can only deduce from your latenessthat you do not respect me and that you you don't like me. That's that's like kind of, I guess,us and our most sensitive states, which I could, I can empathize with that. I can think to myselfif I've said, can you come here for a certain point, I'm looking forward to that point. And when it's notthere, I'm disappointed, but I would like to believe that me personally, I would have justenough strength to not think it's the fault or take it personally as long as the personactually turns up, you know? I'd love to believe that I'm capable of that. Yeah. I don't
23:52mind if people are late. Yeah, I'm like that. I honestly don't mind. I don't take it. And I'm notlate because I don't like someone. I really try my best to be on time and sometimes I'm not. It'sreally not because I've not sat there and gone right this is a person I kind of like let me bereally lazy it's like I'll be I'll actually say right I like this person so let me make sure Ileave the house and I'll leave the house and I would have forgotten the thing that I needed tobring to the fucking thing anyway so it's pointless and then I'll have to go back and get it and thenI'm late but I'm only late because I wanted to be early you know what I'm saying I don't knowIt's interesting that when you put the concept of time out there,
24:38that so many people reduce it to an issue about a punctuality thing.Just like, they're going, my mate's a dick. Is my mate a dick?But I find it very existential. I find people's relationship to time very existential.You will find people who value time so much that if you are late, they're like,this is an attack on.my spirit. This is an attack on my outlook on life that time is extremely precious. I find timeprecious but in a very different way. It's like when they say you could spend a whole day witha child and if you're distracted you've spent no time with that child. But if you are really
25:21engaged for 10 minutes then you've really... Oh, that's not just children. Shown up. That's not justchildren. So I prefer that. That's what I'm saying. I prefer that with grownups. If you werearrive and I spend and you're on time and we have like a distracted weird janky like our togetherthat I don't like that if you're late and we only spend 10 minutes but it's transformational I lovethat I'm about quality like you can be with someone for 20 years and break up and feel nothingand and not understand what your time was spent doing and you can hark back to a love affairthat lasted a day or two weeks that you still think about in terms of your in terms of thedepth and the gross and so I think it's about tuning into time in a way that isn't just about
26:18the lack of it or the abundance of it I think that's fair meaning over meticulousnessand then to just quote nars life's a bitch and then you dies everyone just like relaxand cheer out, bro.You're all like your,it's happening.It's happening.That's actually one of the biggestshifts I went through this year
26:36was feeling truly mortalin February.When I was away on my own,I was like, oh my God,I 100% going to die.Am I doing what I feel is right for me?Mad.Anyway, all right.
26:49Look, Zowie, I love you.I adore you.Way to end time.Adore you.And we're going to give,we're going to give the Patreon subscribers,the ones who are just like keeping alive our hopes of financial independence,we're going to do some Miss Me library stuff.
27:06So dope.See in a sec.Thanks for listening to Miss Me.This is a Persephoneka show.
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