Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Defends Ian Machado Garry, Reacts to Din Thomas’ Comments on Gillian Robertson
00:00Your summer travels deserve an upgrade.With select Chevrolete, Buick, GMC, and Cadillac vehicles connected by OnStar,you can stream, game, and more on the go.Whether you're headed to a music festival or a cottage getaway,you can access hundreds of apps on Google Play right from your center display.Explore OnStar Tech today at OnStar.ca and discover how to take your summer to the next level.OnStar. Better never stops.Welcome back to the Fighter versus the Writer.
00:46I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we are now in the aftermath ofUFC 330 where Islam Makachev went out and defended his welterweight title with a unanimousdecision win over Ian Machado Gary. We both predicted, we both predicted Islam to win.I know you were a little less, you know, gave Ian a better chance than I did.I thought Ian did pretty well, all things considered, but ultimately, you know, Islam won thefight. What did you make? I know you were tweeting about it last night on during the fights.What did you make of the performance? What did you make in the fight?Yeah, you got to be impressed with Ian Gary, man.
01:17He led it up to the expectations.You know what?Like I said, I've had a big expect, I don't know, I've thought that he had that in him for a long time.You know, I think I said it before the fight, right?Just wrong place, wrong time.You know, it's fucking Islam, man.You know, just the wrong guy.I'll tell you what, though.
01:39I mean, I'm not going to say Ian gave that fight away,but that was Ian's fight to win, I feel like, right?I think like the opportunity for him to get it done were there.And I think you could kind of say the same for Islam too.Like, you know, he made it, I think he maybe could have done more than he did do.But man, I felt like Ian was right on the cusp a few times and just wasn't pulling the trigger.Dana said it to.I kind of agree with Dana, like he was a little too nice.
02:10Like we don't really, we can save the hugs for, you know, afterward or whatever.But, man, you got to be impressed with Ian, man.You got to tip your hat to him on that one.I thought, and I think this is not quite the same as what happened to Jack Della Madalena,but I feel like guys are starting to approach Islam with that same,that little bit that same mindset guys did against Anderson Silva back in the daywhere they're kind of fighting him not to lose, you know, and not fighting him to win.Because, like, Ian showed really good.
02:38The takedowns, like, you know, Islam would.get in deep on the single and then he would be able to find a way to reverse out of it,which is great.The problem is he never took advantage of it.He would hold on.He would get out of position, but then he wouldn't take advantage by hurting Islam, you know,for trying to continuously take him down.And I think it's that defensive mindset.
02:55Like, I don't want to get submitted.I don't want to get ground and pound by Islam.We talked about this a lot of the Jack Del and Madelana fight.I said, I think he just fought not to lose.He fought to, I'm not going to get submitted.Well, you didn't get submitted, but you also didn't produce any offense.And I think that was Ian's mistake.When Ian actually got going, and he was the third round, he looked good.
03:13Now, granted, I think Islam kind of took a round off.You know, he was pretty, after the head kick, knocked down everything in the second.I think he was probably just like adrenaline dump, and he slowed down and Ian won the round.But, yeah, I agree.Ian had opportunities.And I think that he'll look back at this fight and be like, damn, like, why didn't I do this or why didn't I do that?I think it was that fighting not to lose mentality is the way I saw it.I think there was a little bit of that.
03:37And I think a little bit strategically.I mean, he said it himself and I agree with him.He's young and he's got a lot to learn.I think he'll learn a lot from his fight.But strategically, I thought he made some mistakes in terms of, for example, the counter-wrestling.Like, you know, he didn't just find a way to break away from the wrestling.He was literally like trying to wrestle with Islam Makachev.And, you know, he made some mistakes, which is what's going to happen when you're going
04:03with the wrestler as good as Islam.Or the one time, Islam clenched him.and Ian pushed him against the cageand tried to reclinch him backinstead of just breaking away.And I think some of those small mistakes,you know, I think he'll,if he does the right things, he'll go back
04:21and fix those things.And, you know, it might come back a better fighter.Or, you know, sometimes we've seen this too.You kind of peek out for that championship fightand then you can't really get the fire backlike you did for that, you know?Yeah, I mean, I think you could argue, like, the way that fight played out, that Ian probably, I don't want to say, you know, because obviously you got to let other fights happen, but I think he, you know, Ian could end up being one of the toughest matchups in the division for Islam because he is so tall, you know, he had good takedown defense.He's got to be a pretty, he's got good striking, not what I would call, like, lethal striking. He's not a one-punch knockout guy, but he has really good striking.
05:00you could saythis was potentially Islam's toughest fight at Welterwaybecause as good as Carlos Pratchez ishe's amazingwe really haven't seen him on the ground too muchhe's still long and lankylike I don't know if he could surviveon the ground with Islam
05:14and you look at Michael Moralesbig kid lots of powerbut we've never seen that guyto go past like I think he's hada three round decision beforebut like could he hang with a guywith Islam's gas tankin the way he pressures people
05:26like Ian Michato Garymay have been the toughest matchupfor Islam at Welchwayand he passed. I mean, he did a great job to win thatfight. Well, we'll see aboutMichael Morales too, right? Because that'sprobably going to be the next fight for him, I'm guessing.Obviously, like either going to be him or
05:41protest. I'm going to bet onMichael Morales.And, you know,Morales is just a big dude, man.He is a gigantic guy.Has mad power.Like, in my opinion,if he can, if he can stop to
05:59takedowns the way that Ian did or at least deal with the takedowns as good as Ian did,like Islam's going to be a big trouble. Like he can't take the shots from Michael Morales likehe did from Ian Gary. And that could be a big problem. You know, they talked about a lot onthe broadcast last night. The move up and weight has certainly played its part in Islam'sperformances. I mean, we obviously, you know, he's not cutting the weight so he canhave his cardio and feel better.But he's not putting guys away.He's not dominating guys like he was.
06:36I mean,Volcanovsky is probably the only guywho really, you know,kind of scrambled with themand gave him a lot of trouble.You might be able to think of another one,but that's the only one I can think of.And but these guys, you know, at Welterweight,
06:53it's a different beast, man.They're so much bigger.And, you know, that's what the differencebetween, like, boxing and MMA.In boxing, you know,it's like,four pounds for every weight class.So when guys go up, you know,
07:03Mani Packett was an eight-weight world champion.You know what I mean?He ended up moving like one or two weight classes in the UFC.Yeah.Right?You know, so in the UFC, it's like it's such a bigger deal.You know, that's a 15-pound jump.You know, these guys are just so big for Islam.
07:21And it seemed like it took his toll on his cardio last night, too.I think I think you're probably right.But also, I do want to give credit because I think, like, you know,when we watched a fight with Jack, you know, Jack was just fighting not to get submitted.That's really what he did.He got caught a couple of times, and he just fought not to get submitted.And I think Ian had a really good game plan in terms of avoiding the ground too much and getting caught in those bad positions.I don't want to chalk it up to that just yet.
07:44Like if it keeps happening, like, you know, his third fight and fourth fight, like he does end up fighting process and Morales or however that ends up playing out, then there might be, like, a legit concern that he's just giving up so much size that he can't do to these guys what he did in lightweight.That being said, it does even the plan for a little bit because Deliways definitely couldn't hang with Islam.But at the same time, I don't want to discount it totally yet because we've seen guys go through laws like that where they just don't, you know, they don't finish fights for a little while or whatever.I mean, and he's still winning.You're fighting the best in the world, you know, in title defenses.Yeah, I mean, yeah.So, I mean, it's not the worst thing in the world that it happens.I mean, like I said, some guys he just catches and you're like, damn, like he just got him.
08:22You know what I mean?Like, he never, he had that head kick knockout over Volcanowski when Volcanowski took that fight on 10 days notice.or whatever. When they had the first fight, he couldn't submit Volkanowski either, and that's a smaller guy.You know, so it just depends. Like, I don't want to, I don't want to chalk it up tolike Islam's going to struggle. You know what I mean? Like, he won. At worst, he won three rounds to two.I had him four rounds to one. That's at worst. He won the fight. There's no controversy.No one saying, oh, Ian Machado, Gary got screwed or anything like that. Everyone knows Islam won.And I got to tell you, on that note, I was surprised that there wasn't more people kind of calling it a robbery.
08:55And I only say that because of the damage.that Ian did, right?That's the first scoring criteria.Like, Islam, other than that head kick,I don't think he really did any damage at all, the entire fight.And Ian, again, I know he's getting pushed against the cage,you know, got to take down a few times.But he was striking Islam the whole time.
09:16When you look at their faces,it was like Ian's face looked like it wasn't touched at all.I'm not sure if it was outside of that kick.Islam was beat up pretty good.His body had, he was raced.Red, like, in terms of damage, like, Ian won the fight in terms of damage.He did, but also, and I don't know if he saw this after the fight, and I'm not blaming him by anystretching imagination or saying it was a dirty move, but I don't know if you heard Islam say that
09:40the broken nose where his nose got all mashed up.He said that was from a head butt.He took Ian down, and when Ian was throwing his head, I don't think he did on person.He threw his head back trying to break free, and he smashed him in the nose.So obviously that wouldn't be like, you know, he wasn't punching him or anything.But, yeah, no, I agree.Like, but I know, we've talked about this before on the show.Matt, like cuts and bruises on the face don't always mean you want to fight.
10:01For sure.But if you look at like, I'm not making an argument that Ian won the fight.But if you're scoring solely on damage, like nothing else, do you score that fight for Ian?No, I don't score for Ian.On damage, like only damage.He did almost all his damage in like one round.That's the problem.I mean, he did a lot of damage in like one round.
10:25The other four, he really couldn't produce a whole lot of options.offense and that's the probably but Islam didn't produce any offense either though well no I'm sayinglike the takedowns the control time like again that's not damage I know I'm saying I'm saying solelydamage yeah solely damage is based on that sure but I mean that's not how a fight is scored so yeah yeah I agreebut if that's the the number one criteria and again I'm not making the argument that he and woneither. Like, Islam won the fight fair and square.Butwe were just talking
11:00about, you know,the, I forgetwhat we're talking about.But, you know, I had a point there,whatever it was. Well, I thinklike, we can sit and argueall day about the scoring criteria and things like that.But obviously, every round is a different round. And the problem
11:15that I think Ian had is he did, he diddamage him pretty good a couple times,but he did that sparingly. He didn'tit over five rounds.You know what I mean?Based on the scoring criteria, Islam won that fight for sure.You know what I mean?Win the first round.
11:27Head kick knocked down in the second.Obviously clearly won that round.Three and three was Ian's round.It felt like almost like Islam took the round off.Like he was just kind of like out there.And even in that moment though, like Ian didn't take full advantage.Like he popped him in the face few times, but he should have really beenlike, as soon as you see Islam slowing down, attack, man.
11:45You got to go after him.And you just didn't do that.And I guarantee you Ian's going to go back and watch this fight and say, man, I wish I had donethat or man I wish I'd done this he's going to realize his regrets pretty quickly um and i'll saywhat islam's going to go back and watch the fight and probably say the same thing likeagain i'm not going to make the argument that ian won this fight but if i'm in islam's campwe go back and we watch rewatch that fight and we look at that as a loss because i mean thatfight was in my from what i was watching that was ian's fight to win like he had he cracked the code
12:20he just didn't step through the door, right?The door was open for him.He just didn't step through it.Yeah.But, I mean, like I said, as much as we want to give Ian credit,and I know, like, it almost feels in a way unfairbecause you have to judge Islam a little different.He's number one pound for pound fighter in the sport.
12:37He broke Anderson's record, 17 consecutive wins,which that may never be broken.I mean, that was standing since 2013, for Christ's sake,so it may never get broken.It's almost like we have to judge him differentlybecause we expect so much from him.Like, it's like, remember, like, when George St. Pierre was on his run, and like, he had that fight with Carlos Condon, Carlos, you know, knocked him down the third round with the head kick.It's, oh, my God.
12:59And then you start questioning, well, is, is GSP losing a step?What's going on?It's just because we judge them, you know, it almost feels like we judged them in a different way because we hold them in such high regard.No, I think there may be some of that.I try to look at it pretty objectively.And all I'm saying is, is that was a really close fight.like I'm I thought just based off the the way that the fights are judged you know I thought it wasit was on probably four to one but in terms of like feeling good about the round like Ian probably
13:37walked back in between every round and felt good about the round you know I mean like likehe had a chance that he won that round other than I don't know one or two rounds right where he wasjust kind of taken down the whole time dominated but um like again if i if i'm in islam's campwe go back and we look at that footage and we view this as we lost this fight like think of it likethis if we're if if if this represents a real fight right we're doing a sport right it's not a realfight but if this is a real fight keeping it real like i pick i and gary to win that fight overmight take him an hour, right, however long it would take, an hour and a half, two hours,right?
14:22Well, Sakaraba, hoist Gracie style, you know?But with zero rounds, like, I'm picking Ian Gary to win that fight.Here's the thing.And I want to ask you this question, Matt, because I know you heard, I'm sure you saw Danatalking about this.Let's just say the fight was two to going into that fourth round, which was what the,at least one scorecard had two, two.You come out in that fifth round, and you got to know, like, okay, there's a chance.
14:47like I'm tied with the WalterChampionship of the World I need to win this round.That is where to meIan gave it away becauseIslam went out there to win. Now grantedyes he wouldn't take him down again. He was workingfrom the ground which is what his game is what he doesbut Ian wasn't doing
15:03anything different to show that he just wantedthat. When you're in that final five minutesyou've got to go for it and it kind offelt like Ian just didn't go for it.So like that's what I said like when this is all said and done.Well he got to the point where it didn't have anything to go foreither right? Yeah.Took his back and
15:17didn't give him a shot after that.Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.He didn't, he didn't like, and, but that was a different, that to me was the real differenceright there.Islam's like, like, because I think, I talked to Javier Mendez today, his, one of his coaches,and he said, we told him, it's two, too, too, you need to win this fifth round.That's what they told Islam between rounds.It's two, too, you need to win this fifth round.
15:38And what did Islam do?He went out there and went for it.And you could argue that was one of his better rounds.Like, you took him down to his back.It was, that was his best round, yeah.Yeah.And where was that?from Ian. You know what I mean?
15:49Ian didn't have that same kind of, I won't say desperation, but like that I needme and you both kind of, we both picked his on for this fight, obviously.But the part, I think a big part of that reasoning was the fact that like Ian is not anopportunist.Like that's probably one of his biggest flaws.Like when the opportunity arises, like he just doesn't strike, right?He's very good to stay in the fight.He's very good at creating little chips here and there.
16:16Again, like if these are hour-long no-round matches,I think Ian beats a lot of people's asses really bad, right?But in terms of, you know, you have to win rounds.Like, this is a sport.You have to win each round.And when the opportunities were there,he just simply didn't put his foot on the gasand take that opportunity.
16:38Yeah, I think that's what I said.When he goes back and rewatches this fight,when he gets home, he's going to kick himself in the ass.He'd be like, man, why didn't I do this?Or why didn't I do that?I hope he does, man, you know, because the way that he was talking, he seemed, you know, you said it just a minute ago, you know, was he in there just to not lose, right?Or just to survive kind of, right, and had too much respect for Islam.And if he keeps that mentality, he might go back and watch the fight and be proud of himself.
17:05Yeah, that's true.And that could be a problem, right?Like, you got to get better, man.But again, I'm saying that on both sides.Like, Islam needs to keep improving, too.I mean, he said himself, D.C. would say that, like, he's got to keep improving.If he's going to, he can't have performances like that against Michael Morales, right?If that fight, because Michael Morales is an opportunist, right?
17:30If that fight plays out the similar fashion with Michael Morales, it only takes one shot from Michael Morales.Right?He's going to explode into something.He's going to take that opportunity.Ian just didn't take it.And Islam should be thankful for that.And here's a, I'm not making excuses by any stretch of imagination, but if that was Islam's, you know, bad night at the office, but he's still won, like, he can get better from this.We've seen, and everybody goes through that, by the way.
17:56We've seen it with John Jones.We've seen it with George St. Pierre.We've seen it Demetri's Johnson really.What's going on?Why does this not look like it?It doesn't look like him.Yeah, yeah.And it could have been that for, I don't, I'm not saying it was.
18:06I'm just saying it could have been that.That could have been Islam's bad night at the office.He just didn't feel himself.He didn't have his best performance, which clearly I don't think he did.But that's also credit to Ian Gary.But, yeah, it could just be like, yeah, that was his off night.But he still won.And that, to me, when you can have an off night or you can have a not great performance and still win,
18:25I think that is a real mark of a champion.Because a lot of guys, when they have a bad night at the office, they just lose.You know what I mean?And Islam didn't.And when you watch that fifth round, you see a guy who's like, I'm not losing this fight.Whereas Ian Gary's like, eh, maybe I'll win.Maybe I'll pull it out.And Islam's like, no, no, no, no, you're not.
18:43I'm going to win this fight.Yeah, that's just the difference between, you know, in Ian Gary's mind, I don't know what'sgoing on as mine, but it's a difference between saying, I'm going to go do my best and tryit hard as I can versus I'm not accepting no for an answer.And that's what it felt like Islam did in that fifth round.And, you know, but again, when we talk about, you know, did Islam have a bad night?I don't know.Like, did Ian just have a, you know, is it just Ian that fight?
19:13fucking good. And I kind oftend to lean towards Ian is that good.I tend to lean that way as well,which is why I said, like, I'm not going to feel badthat thatthat Islam had to kind ofeke it out. He had to kind of find a way to winthat fits around to win the fight. Because guess what?
19:29When you're fighting the absolute best in the world,you're not always going to roll over him. You're justnot. Like, that's not going to happen.Like, everyone... Exactly what happenedwith Iliot-Tipori and Justin Gage. Everyone just assumedhe's just going to roll through and destroy...He had his days.Yeah, you're going to just...
19:43Ilya is just going to destroy Justin Gachie.Well, guess what?Justin Gajee is one of the gutsiest, hardest, most durable fighters ever created on this earth.And he didn't go away when that didn't happen.He started chipping away, and I'll have faded.You know what I mean?So there's no guarantees in this sport.That's why I say, like, I don't care if it was an ugly win or a great win or a beautiful win.
20:02Islam won.We agree there.Like, we're not saying, like, he won the fight.And he's breaking records.He's still champion.Like, it's pretty remarkable what he's done.And I think, like, I'm with you.I think Ian had every opportunity.
20:13in that fight and he didn't but that's also a credit to Islam that he did find a way to win yeah yeahyeah you got it yeah I couldn't agree more and that's uh I I'll just say it again look if I'mif I'm Islam's camp I go back and I view that as a loss and you need to get better in every areayeah you know I think particularly it's striking I mean he should to me I mean he has goodstriking but he showed a lot of vulnerability and his striking you know and I meanI mean, I think he really needs to get that better.He's got...Just because, you know,
20:50you've got to be more than just one thing, right?And he's got...He's one of those guys that's got good enough strikingthat he can utilize his wrestling, right?He has good striking.I'm not going to dog that at all.But I just think it could be a lot better.And, you know, if he can't get a guy down,
21:08like Michael Morales or Carlos Brattsis,which, you know, Carlos hasn't showna ton of great take-down defense.So, you know, I'm kind of putting that on Michael Morales here, right?So if he can't take him down, that's going to be a big trouble for him, right?Again, it's not any in Gary who's going to sit there and wait for you to throw and try tocounter you or be patient about the game.Like, if he stops a takedown, he's going to fucking wing bombs at you.
21:39You better be defensively ready.Yeah.Islam said something last night.I tend to agree with them.He was talking about who should get the next shot.And he's like, I don't know why wasn't, why weren't Carlos and Michael Morales fighting tonight?Like, why didn't they fight each other tonight?And I was like, it's actually not a bad question.
21:55Because, like, when you think about, when you think about where they were at in that fightand how big it could have been to have, like, let's say Michael Morales goes out thereand knocks out Carlos Prochance.And then you bring him into the Octagon afterwards to set up that fight.Because right now we don't have that answer.And I get both sides of it.Carlos has a one loss to you and Gary,but since then he's knocked out Leon Edwards.
22:15He knocked out Jack Delo Madelanahs or two former champions, huge wins.But then you look at Morales.He doesn't have that signature win.He has a winner with Sean Brady, which is great,but he doesn't have like that resume where you're like, man,it's just hitter after hitter after hitter.It's a lot of, you know, good guys, not great guys.So, like, I think those two fighting would have made a ton of sense,
22:33and then you just settle the debate.And then everyone's like, oh, you lose a contender.The Yosey doesn't care about that that much because that can happen anyways.I mean, Carlos could go out there.There's always another fight.He could roll his ankle and lose a fight.And then he's out of, you know what I mean?There's always that.
22:47So I think they should have had them fight.I think they kind of blew an opportunity not because I think that would have been a really cool, like a third fight on the car.You do the two title fights, but then you do that fight with, with Prochis and Morales.And now you know you have a number one contender.There's no question, no debate.The number one contender is coming out of that fight.Yeah.Yeah, that's one way you could do it.
23:08Yeah, I don't disagree.That would be exciting.I mean, what a fucking fight that would be, right?I mean, I think those guys got a, you know,they're bound to meet each other sometime down the road, you know,whenever that is, wherever that is.That's going to be an absolute fucking war.Obviously, you know, they're hoping that that's for a title shot,
23:31but we'll see how that all plays out.But that's going to be a fantastic fight.And to be fair, I mean, Michael Morales, like you said,he doesn't have that signature win.Sean Brady, to me, is kind of his signature win.But, you know, he also doesn't carry the name value yet either.Yeah.Like all of us, we all know who he is.
23:53And anybody who is a hardcore fan knows who he is, he still doesn't have that name.Like, Carl, Carlos Protest is one of those guys that you just kind of recognize him right away, right?Like, he's charismatic.He's a character.He's a wild man.You know, he's got a little schick, you know.He's had a couple of main events, you know, he's been out there.Yeah.
24:16So, yeah, no, I agree.And here's the thing.You've already hinted that.I'll just agree with you.I think Michael Morales is the toughest matchup in this division for Islam Makachev.But the problem is he doesn't have the name value.He doesn't have that signature win.That's why I say, like, if we just stop the world right now and say who deserves the title shot,
24:34I would say protest because he does have, like, his last two wins over two former champions.And he destroyed both of them.Leon Edwards and Jack Della Madlainer are not bad wins, and he absolutely dismantled both of them.So, yes, Carlos deserves it more, and you're right, he's a bigger name, people like him.Like, when he goes on screen, people scream and chant and all that kind of stuff.But I think the toughest matchup is Michael Morales.That dude's huge.He's got good take down to the best.
24:57I mean, one punch.I know Carlos has one punch knockout power, too, but there's just something about that kid.But I think he's got, I think he's got to get at least one more big win.He's got, you know, and maybe, like, maybe they match him over to Ian Gary.I don't know if they do that.Maybe Ian beats him.But like, he's got to get one more big win because I just don't think you can really sell that to the world that this guy, as good as he is, is going to take on the number one pound for pound fire in the world right now.That's why I was like, if I'm Morales, I would call out protest.
25:23I would call him out and say, let's go.Let's make this a number one contender fight.Because he beats Carlos, there's no argument.Yeah, there's no argument then.I'll tell you what the, if you're Islam, though, and maybe he's at a point where he has a say in this too, right?Sure.if you're islamif i'm islam i go with michael morales
25:44only based on like i don't want him to get more experiencei don't want him to face a a wrestler like me and learn from that like well i mean he didwith sean brady right but i don't i don't need this guy having more experience i want totake him out now carlos protest has a lot of fights if i'm correct me if i'm wrong but carlosproject is really experienced we kind of know who he is at least this how i feel about it we kind ofknow who he is and of course you can always develop some thingsmichael morales like doesn't have nearly the experiences protest and correct me if i'm wrong on thatbut yeah so if i'm islam i'm back but let's get this morale shit done with or if you're
26:26islam again depending on how you feel about that performance do you even put it at riskDo you just call it a day?Do you call it a day?Be like, you know, the reason I say that is because, look,okay, if he goes out and loses to Michael Morales,what happens to his legacy?Is it the same as if he retires right now?I mean.
26:51It's not.It's not. If Khabib went out and he fought a few more timesand he lost to, I don't know,Justin Gagey in a rematch or something,his legacy is completely different.Like people still put Kibibib,is, you know, one of the, some people argue he's the greatest of all time, because he'sundefeated.
27:09Yeah.I mean, I saw someone put out a list today.They said, you know, like, because when I talked to Javier Mendes, I asked about thegoat debate, you know, we were talking about that beforehand.He's like, he's like, he's not to go yet.He, I flat on saying he's not to go yet, but he should be in that, like, top fiveconversation.I think that's fair.
27:24I agree.I think that's fair.You know, you look at John Jones, George St. Pierre, Demetrice Johnson, Habib,and then, you know, maybe Islam.I'm not putting them in order.just saying like that would probably be the five I guess um that's fair but also I think ifyou're Islam and and and I like Islam's mindset like he just wants to keep going and he's not likehe knows it's legacy he knows it's important but I don't think he's of that mindset of like you know
27:47I have to I have to win to just do you know what I mean like I feel like he just I'm not sayinghim personally but if you're his manager yeah it like or you're his wife or something you'relike hey I just want you to have the most value legacy that you could possiblyhave. After that Ian GaryFy, do you take the risk ofkeeping going or do you say, look,I'm already in that goat conversation.Like, I think that you
28:12could make arguments to, you know,like for instance, you know, people wouldargue John Jones not be in the great with hissteroid stuff, right? Sure. 100%.So there's, but there's peopleand you can say lost Dominic Rayis just throwing it out there.Yeah, yeah. Exactly, right?
28:28Or Gustafson maybe.You know, there'sso at this pointif he retired todaylike I think there's peoplea niche of peoplethat would arguethat Islam is the greatest of all time
28:43there I think there's going to be aportion of people that say thatbut I don't think the vast majority wouldand I think is abut if he goes and losesyeahwell no I that's the risk you takeand like that's the big argument against Kabib
28:59he retired at 29I know, but everyone knows he retired right in his prime.Like, he absolutely could have gone on for two or three years.And I think there's a really good chance he would have gone undefeated 35 and no.Like, that's just how good he was.And also, he wasn't going up in weight class.But we don't know because we didn't see it, right?But think of the flip side.
29:16Think of the flip side.What if Islam goes out there and dispatches Michael Morales and dispatches Carlosand I don't know who else will be coming up the pipe at that point, but he beat somebody else.And then he's got five title defenses of welterweight, four title defenses of lightweight,his win streak is now like 21 in a rowwhich is probably never going to get touchedlike then then like then it's hard to saybecause like even though I call John Jones
29:42the greatest of all time and I stand by thatyou can make the argument about the steroid thingyou can make the argument about you knowthe Reyes fight I can't really argue with youI can just say yeah you knowyeah you're not wrong but I still thinkthis is a personal opinion you know because when you look atGeorge St. Pierre they say well you know John Jones never had a loss
29:59to Matt Seri never had a loss to MattIt's true. I can't argue that. He never got, you know, taken out and tapped out from strikes, whatever.But if you're Islam and you do that, you take out four or five guys at Welterweight and you've already had the lightweight record.Then it's getting awfully hard for people to argue against him as the greatest.That's what I'm saying. Like, right now he's into conversation.But if he keeps going and keeps winning, which I think he can, then you're like, I don't know, man.It's going to be awful hard to say he's not the greatest. So I think that's really.what he's looking at here, you know what I mean?
30:32Yeah, and don't get me wrong.I agree with you.I mean, I'm a shoot for the stars guy.I agree with you.Yeah, I was just kind of curious what you would respond to that because, look, I mean,if he retired today, again, there's a strong argument to be made that he's, I mean, he's alreadyat least top five, right?Sure, sure.
30:53I think that's pretty much said in stone.It's like, do you just accept that and walk away?Or do you take that risk?you know, because, like, I just wonder what happens if, you know, let's say he fights Michael Morales and, and hypothetically, I don't think it's going to happen, but hypothetically, you know, it gets worked, right, or it gets knocked out.And, you know, of course, they'd have a rematch and maybe it happens again.Like, do they start saying you're not one of the greatest of all time now?Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think it obviously, it matters.It obviously matters to Islam, but I think, I know he's not in the goat conversation.
31:30But I just think of, you know, Alexander Volcanowski, like what he went through these last couple years.Like, he took his chance and he had one of the greatest fights ever with Islam.That was the first fight was incredible.That was an amazing fight.He lost.And then obviously, he did the 10-day rematch, which was probably not his best move, but he took a shot and he missed and he got knocked out.And then he probably came back too soon when he fought I'm not making excuses for the loss.Came back like four months later or whatever.
31:54I'm like, dude, that's not a good idea.He's got a headkick knocked out by Islam.Do you really want to fight Ilya?And he got knocked out.And it kind of felt like the world moved on.Like, Volk's done.He's old man, Volk.He's done.
32:04And I know I'll have the division.But he comes back and he beats Diego Lopez twice and then reclaims the title.Now we know he's fighting Mosaar in October, which I cannot wait for, by the way.But this is a 38-year-old guy who was written off after a few losses and now he's back being championed again.And I still argue as great as Jose Aldo was, and I think Jose Aldo is amazing.I still think Volks's the greatest featherweight of all time.Now, maybe that doesn't matter to him.Maybe he's not chasing that particular goal.
32:29But, like, I just think about that.Like, I'm not saying, like, if Islam gets knocked out by Michael Morales, would it be bad?Sure.But who knows?Maybe he's like, you know, I am going to go back to lightweight because, you know, I was never really a welterweight.I just never really a welterweight.Maybe he goes down there.He just absolutely wrecks Justin Gates and he wrecks Ilya.
32:46Then we're not saying that goes away.But, like, you know, we can move on from it and be like, ah, he just wasn't really a welterweight.So I don't think it's the worst thing in the world.And like I said, this sport is about taking risks.And he's come this far.I mean, 17 wins in a row and a two-division champion.Take out.And I think he can beat Michael Morales.
33:06I absolutely believe he can.I just think Michael Rawls is a very dangerous opponent.Same thing with Carlos Prochance.But I think after watching Saturday, I think, I'm being just being honest,I think Ian Gary may be the toughest matchup at Welterweights.Yeah, I just don't know Michael's take down defense, you know?And what's his cardio?Can he hang with his long?
33:28Yeah, he goes to him?big one too yeah i mean just the thing that that it comes down to is you know like you can only do thisshit for so long that i mean for one what is i'm what 38 years old 34 34 oh 34 okay so yeah so he'sprobably still yeah in prime in terms of physical and everything but um but the the fact isthe more you do this the more people see the weaknesses yeah right like everybody like i mean he's gothad the target on his back for a long time had some close fights like with voluiland now with Ian and everybody's day comes.So, you know, but look, I mean, you got to tip your hat to him too, man.
34:07Like the dudes out there getting it done and you know what he's going to do and he keeps fucking doing it.Yeah, 100%.You know, and look, these are these are proper matchups for him, Morales and protests.Like you said, you know, they're strikers, knockout guys more or less.And, you know, so it's the type of matchup that does work in his favor, right?You know, it's not a Movsar type that, you know, he's, you know, like he had a really close fight with Armin, right?You know, it's like he doesn't have to necessarily deal with that in the near future.So, you know, these are the proper matchups.
34:43Yeah, so go chase the fucking greatness, man, go for it.I love it.Yeah, and like I said, I mean, I think that, and those are all, like I said, dangerous fights, but winnable fights.You know what I mean?Like Carlos Proch is incredibly dangerous, but we know it's a winnable fight.I think Morales is the same way just because he is so green, you know what I mean?I mean, we just don't know.Like, he's a dangerous dude, but maybe he just gassed after one round,
35:03and then Islam just absolutely malls him.I mean, anything could happen.So, and then, like I said, that's how close.Like, that's why I say I think Islam's going to keep going or he should keep going is becausehe's that close.Like, he's a couple, maybe a couple of three wins away from just solidifying himself as the greatest.You know what I mean?I think you're right on that, to be honest.
35:20Yeah, because, I mean, look, he beats both those guys.Maybe, you know, maybe does a couple more after it, which is kind of up to him,Right. Yeah, it's going to be hard to argue against being the greatest at that point, right?Yeah, you're that close. It's almost like, take your shot. Take your, you know what I mean?Like, he's not in the same boat as some guy. He could be the greatest. We're literally being like, you're a winner two from being the greatest. So at that point, rolling the dice, take your end. I don't think he's really rolling and dies. He's that good. He can win those fights. So, yeah, you know. And I just want to see him get his striking a little bit better. More defensively, man. Like, that makes me nervous with him.and Morales and protest, you know.Of course, you know, again, we don't know much about Morales,but, like, I don't think process has to take down defense that Ian Gary has
36:07where he'll be able get off those types of shots.But, man, if he leaves himself open the way he did against Ian Gary,I just see that not going so well for him.Yeah.You know, like those types of shots that Ian landed,if that's a Michael Morales shot or maybe even a process shot,boy, that's a fight-changing shot.shit right there. And they do have
36:30fucking killer instinct. And I'm notmaking excuses, but I have to wonder, like,when he watched, when he, when he stood andwas striking with Ian,did he have the mindset of like, he can't beknocked out? He can't knock me out because Ian just doesn'thave that kind of power. You know what I mean? Maybe he's justlike, you know, he didn't have to worry.
36:46Like that third round, Ianabsolutely won the third round on the feet, but hedidn't really, like, he didn't hurt him. He didn'tput it to him to where he's like,oh, grabbing his midsection oryou know, backing off to the corner. Like, hewon the round, but I have a hard time believing Islam would fight that way against theCarlos process or Michael Morales, you know what I mean?
37:06So maybe there was less of a danger factor for me, Ian.You might be spot on with that, to be honest, because look at the fact is, what Ian couldnever do that entire fight was just get Islam's respect, right?I think he did a couple times, but then Islam earned it back or took it back away, right?Yeah.But that's what you have to do with this guy like Islam.Like you have to get his respect and get him worried about what you're doingversus him constantly thinking about what he's doing.
37:37Yeah, 100%.Well, like I said, it's going to be fun.Whether it's Morales, process, whatever it is.It's going to be fun.Welterweight.I've always said Welterweight is the best division.Sport has been for a long time.I saw Matt Brown's name pop up a few times on that broadcast on Saturday with Neil Magny
37:51got his win on the prelims.He has 11 finishes now, and they're like, number one finishes.Matt Brown, 15.I didn't even know I had the mostfinishes.You had the most knockouts too, but you alsohave the knockouts are 13, mostfinishes with 15.
38:04Luke is one behind you, but he's notfighting a welterweight anymore, so.Oh, did he move up to 85?Yeah, he's 85.He fought yesterday, right?I thought I see the fight.He lost Trashong Gore.Yeah, he lost that fine.
38:16Yeah, yeah.Yeah, because I remember, I thoughtTrayshon Gore cut, you know,I couldn't hear the audio.I was at an event, and I thoughtTrishon Gore must have cut down.I was like, okay.Nope.
38:28Yeah, but they put it up for...I'll take that.So you're still...It's going to be really, really hard for him to break your knockout record,because I think second place is like seven or whatever.It's pretty far back behind you.But most finishes is 15, and Lucke was at 14, but he's now fighting at Walterway.Now Neil Magnus is 11.
38:45That's still four more finishes to even tie Matt Brown, which is pretty damn impressive.That's pretty cool.Yeah, yeah, that's a cool stat.I didn't even know I had the most finishes, so...Yeah.That's a little feather in the cap thereI love itIt kind of reminds me of like the Islam
39:01I know it's not the same recordBut Islam breaking Anderson's recordThat took like 13 years for a guy to get thereLike you haven't fought in a few yearsAnd like you're still like way aheadLike you're at 15 second place is 11Like that's a funThat's a lot to ask for the guy
39:15To get four more finishesTo tie your recordNice niceI'll take itI should promote that more often huhWe should talk about that every weekYou knowYeah most finishes
39:24Most knockouts of wellI definitely remarked the most knockoutsbecause like when they did the,I care who it was,I got a knockout.He's like,I want to break the record.I was like,
39:32dude,you're at seven.You're a long wayfrom getting close to match record.Who was that?I care who it was.I'm not knocking the guy.I'm just like,
39:40you guys have some work to do,man.Seven's a long way from 13.I just say,I remember this conversation.Yeah.But yeah,I can't remember who it was either.
39:47Yeah,but I was like,that's pretty impressive man to have that record.It stayed there for a while.I mean,what I want to,my goal,one of my goals in life is to train the guy that breaks my record and do it as a champion.
40:01That would be very cool.That would be funny.I was talking to when I was talking to Javier Mendes today, we were talking about like everyone for the longest time, and you notice,we never heard the narrative that Islam lived in Kabib's shadow and shadow when he finally retired,he got to shine.I was like everyone always wanted to make something like, everyone wants to create something like,oh, jealousy or whatever.It's like, no one is a bigger fan of what Islam is doing right now.
40:24now than Khabib. And he's like, oh yeah, he's like,he's like, there is no bigger fan of Islam Kachadha thanKhabi Narakab. He's like, that dude loves whatIslam's doing. I was like, see, I wantthat narrative to get out of there because everyone's like, oh, he's breakingKabib's record, he's going to do this. And I was like,I don't think Kibb cares one bit. I think he'sexcited that Islam's doing that. Yeah.
40:42Yeah, you can tell he is.He's the first one in the octagon huggingIslam. And you can even tellin the corner, just the way he's cornering him. He's sopassionate about it. Like, just, you know,you can just see the emotion in hisface.Yeah.
40:55Those guys are, I did a stat last night between Usman to Magamatov, Khabibib, Islam, andUmar, they have a combined record of 100 wins and two losses.Oh, shit.How freaking ridiculous is that?Damn.All right.And, you know, we've seen other teams get torn apart in situations where, like, one guywants, you know, we all know the Rashad and John Jones thing.
41:18These guys are still, like, this is a family.And, like, they're never going to.I remember talking to Usman two years ago.And I was like, are you ever going to go?go to the U.S.C. and fight there. And he's like, as long as Islam's champ, I'm notgoing anywhere near there because I don't want to fuck with Islam. He didn't say it likethat. He's like, I'm not going to mess with Islam. Islam left the division. Now he's like,I can go over and I think Ushman will eventually end up in the U.S.C. But he wasn't going to
41:39mess with that as long as Islam's champion. When Islam moved up, now Uspin's like, I cango. That's just the respect they have for each other, man. Yeah. Yeah, I love that, bro. I lovethat. And I like how they kind of said, like, they're like, they don't really go outside of theircamp. They're like, dude, we got, you know, 10world champions on the match at any givenday. Like, why do we need to go anywhere?Yeah. It's really cool what they're doing, man.What a great team. Hell of
42:02a hell of a coaching staff, too. It could be Van JavierMendes. I mean, how many guys, Javier? Javierwas Kane Velasquez's coach. DanielCornier's coach. I mean, JohnFitch's coach, like he was, he's anincredible coach in his own right. You put all that brain powertogether, man. You got a hell of a team.Absolutely, yeah. Couldn't agree more.
42:18Real quick before we get out of here, Matt.I'm only bringing this up because, you know,obviously you were a fighter, but you're also a coach.You coached your fighters all the time.You got a couple of fighters coming up with fights.I know Josiah just booked a fight.You got your guy in one championship coming up.But Gillian Robertson lost a pretty ugly fight with McKinsey Dern.
42:36Wasn't a great fight.You know, my opinion on women's in May right now.It's not really good.But hey, it is what it is.She lost.And then afterwards, her coach, Dean Thomas, who I have a lot of respect for.I know Dean, we're not like best buddies, but I've known him for a lot of years.You know, always been a really good guy.
42:50But he went on the post-fight show and said,I'm making an announcement.I'm retiring from cornering.I wanted to see, you know,I was going to stick by Jillian as long as I couldto take her as far as she could go.I think tonight was as far as she can go,which is, I don't know,
43:01it seems a little mean to say to your fighter,like right after a really tough title fight loss,and he basically said,I'm retiring from cornering,I'm not cornering anybody anymore.I'll still work with guys, but I'm not cornering.Matt, kind of a two-part of here.Like, one, what do you make of that statement?
43:15And, like, I don't care how you want to phrase it.It's just awful timing.It really felt like he was kind of chucking Jillian under the busbecause she didn't have an ugly loss.It wasn't a great fight, but, like, I think she's gone as far as she can go,so I'm walking away.And I'm like, damn, man.Like, so as a coach, and you know, you've been on both sides,
43:37but when your fighter wins and when you're fired a loser,I didn't know when Josh went over to one championshipand blew his knee out, like a minute into the fight.That's heartbreaking.That's heartbreaking.You travel halfway around the world, making your one championship debut,and you blow your knee out.That's heartbreaking.
43:49So I'm curious, like, because like, if the fight was over, you're like, you know what?I think Josh has gone as far as he could.I'm done cornering him.And he's sitting there with his knee all fucked up.Like, that's just, I don't know.What do you make of what Dean Thomas said or how he, how he handled that situation?Well, first, I'm going to assume that they already had some sort of understanding of this before.You know, I don't know for sure if that's the case.
44:14But I'm going to assume that, you know, whatever sort of relationship they have, like this was,They had this understood beforehand.This wasn't, probably wasn't a surprise.And secondly, again, I don't know what their relationship is.Like, I don't know Dean that well.I've met him a few times.But, you know, I guess I operate differently.And I'm not saying this is the right way or the wrong way or anything.
44:41But I know a lot of these coaches, they do it sort of on a business transaction, right?like you pay me this amount and I'll coach you or you know you do this for me I do this for youwhatever I'm always clear with my fighters that the relationship comes first like I'll train you as afriend you know because like we like hanging out together we like working together and and I'lljust give you all the information that I got because I want to see you succeed as a friend and when youhave that kind of relationship like you stick with your person you know no matter whatagain, I don't know what their relationship is, so it's kind of hard to really speak on, you know, how it would feel about it.It seemed like odd timing.
45:27And again, I don't know Dean, but, you know, it seemed odd to kind of make it about himself a little bit in that situation.Like, you just talk about the fight, right?Like, you're an analyst, like, just talk about the fight and, you know, what happened in the fight.And I think you kind of leave it at that.That's not knocking him because, you know, maybe for him that was a little bit of a bittersweet moment too, right?You know, where maybe he said to himself, maybe he, because the other option or the other way to look at other side of the token is maybe he felt that that was the best that he could do.And it's his fault that she lost, right?And maybe that's kind of what he meant by that.
46:11It's like, I've done as much as I can do.like you need to get a better coach.It just didn't sound like.It just didn't sound like that when he's just like, I think she's gone as far as she can go.And listen, you're right.Maybe they had that agreement.Like if I don't become champion tonight, you know, you should go do your analyst thing and do your, you know, do your TV show thing you're doing.But like the timing of it is what I really have a problem with.
46:33It's one thing like if he goes later this week and has, and Jillian's there with him.And he's like, I'm so proud of you.You worked your ass off.But I think we've probably gone as far as we can go.and I want you to continue to achieve your dreamsand I just don't know that I can help you anymorethan I already haveand then you do a little Mia Copa
46:49on a little video or whateverand they put it out.I'm cool with that,but it's just like the night of the fightto go on a broadcastand like this is the official post-fight show.You didn't do it on Instagram or you knowlike she's not there.
47:01To literally say I think she's gone as far as she can gothat that stings manbecause we don't know.Like we've seen plenty of people lose ugly title fightsand come back and win.Like, you know,it's all you want.wanting it and J-Chic, get knocked out and come back and win the title.
47:15We've seen lots of people have those performances just like, what is going on here?And they come back two years later, year later, and they win.I just like, man, that just seems kind of cruel.Like, you know what I mean?Like, I know that you're upset, and maybe she didn't follow your game plan and she didn'tlisten to what you wanted her to listen.I get all that.Hell, Javier told me today, he's like, I was shouting at Islam to do something.
47:35He wasn't listening.He's like, Islam did not listen to my cornering advice.I was like, it happens.But like, he didn't, after the fight, he didn't come out and say, you know what,Islam, you didn't follow my advice.I'm done couring you.Like, it just seemed like really bad timing to do it in that moment.And I agree with you about, like, making it about himself.
47:52Like, you know what I mean?Like, I didn't hear him, like, offer any words of encouragement or, like, it was atough night at the office.I feel bad for Jillian.It was, I think she's gone as far as she can go.I'm walking away.That just seems really cruel.Yeah, I didn't think it was really necessary to get, like, you should have saved it for
48:09later.But also, maybe he'll come out this week.or next week or something and explain further,maybe a tweet or a post on Instagram or whatever,and explain further and it'll be better understood.The way that he did it, I'm not a fan of,but look, you know, I'll reserve judgment for, you know,once I got all the facts, you know,
48:33and we simply don't have all the facts, right?Again, we don't know what the relationship was.Maybe there's more to it than that.So, you know, that's just kind of how I'lloperate, you know.Would you, let me ask you this question, though.Would you ever do that to one of your fighters?Let me put it back.
48:49I understand there's lots of other, you know, potential factors.Or maybe they had that agreement before.But like I said, the way it played out, it didn't sound like that.Certainly didn't sound like, we talked before the fight and we decided to, you know,he didn't say any of that.He's just like, I'm done.Well, the other potential is, you know, he's worked with it for a while and he's told her what she needs to do.Maybe she's not doing what he's telling her to do.
49:10And he's like, all right, I'm done with this shit.know she got as far as she can go and I'm not really I'm not really interested in thisthat's that's normal with fighters bro you tell them to do this tell them do that you know you gotthese years of blood sweat and experience and they're like all right well I'm gonna do thisand you're like okay well still be in your corner I guess but I don't know why so it could beone of those situations too you know maybe she's one of those stubborn people that doesn'treally listen so you get I'm not going to totally reserve judgment but would I do itI hope I wouldn't.
49:44Like on the night and if I'm like in Josiah like I did.But if it's,you know,if it's one of those guys who you like you're just frustrated working with themand then you know you build a gameplay,you watch hours of footage,you go in the gym and you train with it.And then they don't do anything that you told them to do.
50:02You know,maybe that was kind of his little comeback on that.Like if you're not going to do it,I'm tell you do,then you got as far as you can go.I'm out.And you know what?Once again,
50:12I'm fine with that.Just don't do it on national television.Like,you know what I mean?Yeah,yeah.Coaching is a hard fucking job,and it's selfless.
50:20And,you know,it's very easy to get negativeon yourself andand on the fighterand the situation,the relationship.It's very,
50:31very easy to turn thisinto a negative thing.So I can empathize with that.Maybe that's why I'm not as harsh on him here.as maybe you're expecting.But, you know, it's such a fucking selfless job, man.And so many of the coaches I know, they'll say it way worse than me.Like I keep an optimistic, positive mindset about it.
50:58I'm kind of particular about who I work with.But, man, it can be a fucking miserable job at times.And when you see your fighter go out there and, you know, just get dominated.and, you know, maybe they, he'd worked on positions with her specifically,and then she got exploited in those positions.And he's like, you know, you didn't train what I told you to train, right?He's frustrated, and maybe that's a common thing that they've dealt with.And, you know, when you deal with these types of situations,
51:29like I kind of understand where you could be saying something like that.Maybe that's not the case either, though.Again, that's where, like, I just don't know enough to really say anything of something.substance to it other than, yeah, that's not who I am, I hope, and I hope that I wouldn't dosomething like that.Yeah, you remember the situation came about a few years ago when Sean Strickland had that reallyugly fight to rematch with Drichis and his coach, Eric Nickson, who is one of the best dudesin this business, like incredibly nice guy, incredibly good coach.
52:03They had a little, I don't say a war of words, but they kind of, you know, he's like,I don't want to be there.He's not listening.He's not doing what I'm telling him to do.and I don't know if I want to corner him again or something like that.And then Sean's like upset about it.And he's like, I'm not going to.And then, you know, time passes.
52:15They kind of make up.And obviously, Eric was back in his corner and he wins the title.Bees Hamza and everything's good.That was one of the more public situations.I was like, this is weird.But I understood the frustration from Eric's point.He's like, he didn't do anything I'm telling him to do.And then, you know, Sean had his rebuttal.
52:30And it was ugly for a few months.And then they got back together and they're still great friends.And obviously, you know, Sean went out and picked up one of the biggest wins of the year,but beating Hamzaa Chamaev.everyone's going to handle different.I remember when Holly Holie Holm.I think it was a Myra Boina Silver.Remember that when she got choked out?
52:46She had like head and arm choked at standing or whatever.And I talked to Mike Winklejohn, who has been her coach for decades.And, you know, he was like, dude, it sucks, you know, but I know Holly.She's going to come back better from this.But everyone's got a different coaching style.You know what I mean?There's no right or wrong way to it.I think just in that situation, it's just like nobody feels worse on that night than Jillian Robertson,
53:08who just did not, I mean, she just got taken down and basically just got, you know, basicallymauled on the ground.Didn't get, didn't get submitted, didn't get, you know, didn't get finished, but she didn'treally produce much offense.And I guarantee you she's going to be upset for weeks after this.She lost her title fight.She lost her opportunity.She may not ever get another one.
53:25I get it.That to me is just like, why kick your fighter when she's already down?Like, you know, like a week later, two weeks later, or do it privately.And then, like, when her next fight's coming up and you're not in a corner,when's like, why are you not in her corner?we came in agreement.I'm going to just do the analyst thing.She's going to have a new coach in her corner.
53:42I guess the timing of it, man, that's what bugs me.It's like, dude, any other time.Don't go on national TV.And I think you were right.Like, he kind of made it about himself.He's like, this is really hard.And I think I've taken her as far as she can go.And I'm like, man, what a poor choice of words tonight of all nights.
53:57Yeah, yeah.Yeah.Again, it wasn't in great taste.But look, you know, those guys are there talkingfor hours at a time.So, you know, they're going to say some stupid shit or some shit that we don't agree with.So, you know, Joe Rogan says off the wall shit all the time.Even cursed recently.
54:16That was hilarious, too, and he did that.Yeah.You know, so, you know, I try not to hang on every word.Hopefully, you know, the best case scenario goes to Gillian and they stay friends and, you know,and, you know, they can work out whatever, whatever it is.And look, I don't know how many people watch the fucking post-fighted.show anyway, you know? I don't know how many peopleare even listening. I mean, it blew up because
54:40I saw like major, like the major sportswebsites picked, picked it up. They're like, you know,Dean Thomas taking a lot of criticism for what he said,and I'm like, oh, yeah.And I will say this, like, I don't know Dean,like we're not best friends or anything, but every timeI ever talked to him, he's always been really cool with me. I rememberI was down at ATT when he was still
54:56coaching there, and I was therefor doing a feature on Yawani on J-Chek, so I wasthere for the full week, and I'm just like hanging out of the gym.And Dean walks by me and seen me in a while, and he passed meon the bell and he goes, looks like you put on a couple pounds there, Damon.I was like, oh, you know, whatever.And as he was standing there, and I just give him as good as I get.And I was like, I don't know about me, Dean, but you might want to go up a t-shirt
55:16size or two the way you're looking and he just laughed to me.So that's just the way.He's just like that ballbuster.And I think, like, I think Dean's a good guy.I think he's a good coach.He's obviously a good dude.I just think it was really bad timing.Like, just really bad time.
55:30Yeah, yeah, it seemed like it.But yeah, like I said, I don't know well enough to really say anything.the relationship.So, you know, I kind of, I try to stay in my lane on that shit, bro.You know?I think Josiah has a big fight coming up.I think he's going to win.Obviously, that's your boy.
55:46But if he loses, I don't want you to come out afterwards.But you know what I'm done with Josiah?Fuck this guy.I'm done coach you.No, I would never do that to Josiah.But, yeah.So this weekend, we actually have a couple of pretty good fights from Sacramento.You got Fluffy Hernandez and Gregor Rodriguez.
56:03That's a really interesting matchup.That's a real interesting fight, yeah.Ben Ardeter and Reineer de Ritter moving up to Light Heavyweight to take on Roman Delizze.And I know this is, this is Ryan Neer's first car.He went to American Top Team.He left Kilcliffe and now he's training at ATT.So a couple good fights this weekend, you know?So not an incredible card, but pretty solid card.
56:22Yeah, absolutely.What's the next big card we got coming up?September, we got Armin versus Mauricio Rufi and Joshua Van versus Alessandre Pantosia.Yeah, that's some sick fights.What's the date on that?September was it USC.Let me look at up real quick here.It must be like 19th or 18th, probably.
56:41USC 331 is September 19th.Yeah, 19th.Yeah, the week before Josiah's fight, all right.Yeah, so, yeah, I know Josiah's fight got announced.That's going to be a good one.So, yeah, that's going to be a good card.But, yeah, we got that.Man, I know you're excited to announce.
56:56They finally announced Jan and Rabb three.And obviously we got Mosaar and Volcanowski finally booked.So I'm really looking forward to that one.Yeah, we got a great.great year ahead of us, man. A lot of good fights.You know, my curiosity is what is thisbig event that Dana's talking about?You know, have you heard any
57:15any great buying rumors?People keep hitting me up and they're showing me pictures like they're doingthe thing because they did that, that Rico Verhoevenfight in front of the pyramids.And they're like, they're going to go to Egypt or like they're notgoing to go outside again. I don't care if it's Egypt or not.But I don't know. That's a good question. I don't knowbecause, like, I mean, they've done the White House like that.
57:36You're not going to get bigger than that, obviously, but, like, I don't know.It's kind of curious because, like, where would they go?Like, what, you know what I mean?Like, the only thing I could think was the Coliseum, but I know they've already tried to do that.And, and I think they tried to do that, right?And Dana's like, it's not possible or something.They wanted some ridiculous amount of money to do it there.Like, yeah.
57:56But maybe they worked out a deal with them somehow, you know?Yeah, I was just trying to think of, like, iconic, like, venues in the States or, like,can but I really like, and I understand like part of it's just like my skepticism becauselike you can't be bigger than the White House.Like what are they going to do?Like you're going to do it in the Pentagon or something?Like I don't know.Maybe like the North Pole on Christmas?
58:16Yeah.The Santa, you don't see Santa Claus.I don't know, but like I like these teas.I just don't know where they would do it at because like they've done like MSG is probablythe most iconic sports arena in America.They go there every year.They go there every year.So like where would you go?
58:32Like what would you do?I mean Dallas StadiumButYeah I mean that's just a big stadiumIs that likeYou know something to be pumping up like this though you knowYeah like I don't knowI hope whatever it is I hope I'm sure I'm just like doing the sphere
58:47Like I'm sure it'll be cool but like even thatI don't know like the sphere is pretty uniqueThere's not another one of those like you know what I meanSo I don't know I don't know what it would beThat's that myMy only guess is the Coliseum like because it'sYou know that's as big as you can get I thinkYou know, cool as you can get, right?
59:05And, I mean, imagine the production there, right?With the, you know, what they did at the White House,they do something like that at the Coliseum.I mean, my God, dude, they could do something amazing there.That would be really cool.I don't put it past them.Like I said, every pull up the White House,and that card looked, and the entire production was remarkable.
59:21Like, I, that's one.Like, I don't agree with Dane on everything,but I definitely agree with them.Like, that should win every Emmy Award or whatever production award you can win.Like, that was one of the most ridiculous shows.And they pulled it off, man.It was really, really well done.I still say to this day, greatest sporting event in sports history.
59:38Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong.I don't know how you top it, right?Maybe like the thrill in Manila is up there, right?Or, you know, back in the 20s and 30s, I mean, there's a myriad of events that were gigantic that they did all the time.But, you know, but they didn't have the means of production back then, right?Yeah.I still, every time I see a photo of Justin Gagee reading the Declaration.of Independence before walking out to his fight from the oval
01:00:06and something.This is the most ridiculous thing ever.I'm like, did this actually happen?Like, did this really happen?I know, right?They just put it together so well.That's why, dude, if they do at the Coliseum,just imagine what they could do there.
01:00:22You might be right.That might be the one because Dana's talked about that a lot.And I wonder, now you bring it up,I wonder if the people who run that,whatever Italian, you know, organization,the government whoever runs that.I can't help but wonder if they see what they did at the White House and say, you know what,let's lower our asking price and get them to put on a show.
01:00:41Because it's all about tourism.If they do a show there, people are going to flock to the Coliseum.You might be right.Now that you say that, I'm like, you know what?You might be right because that White House car was so well produced.They might be like, you know what?Half price.Come to the Coliseum.
01:00:56Or even if they kept the same ridiculous price.Like, he has a lot more money now available, right?And, you know, they claim that they lost this money on the White House, which maybe they technically did.But, right, it pays dividends in the end, right?And they might see the same at the Coliseum.They're like, but we got to one up ourselves.Like, we can't, you know, we got to defend the belt, right?Yeah.
01:01:20We got to keep, you know, fighting new champions.Imagine you put Aspinall gone at the Coliseum and the Comain is like Islam versus Morales or something.Well, it's got to be illia.Ilya's got to be in that.Oh, yeah, that's true.Yeah, you do.Ilya versus Patty is like the co-main or something like that.Oh, yeah, there you go.
01:01:37I mean.And you're in Europe and you get to Europe because Patty's going to bring people from Europe too.So you get a big European card with those two and you get Aspinol as the champion.Cyril Gons from France.We may have just booked the Coliseum card, Matt.Dude, I mean, how many people does that even see?I have no idea.I don't even know either.
01:01:55I don't know.I don't seem like a lot, you know, when they were, you know, the Gladiator days.but it was like, you know, they were like crammed together like sardines and, you know,everybody was like smaller back then and, you know, they're probably starving and, you know,didn't care and, you know, and I think it's outdoors too, right?They have a roof on it.So.It does.
01:02:14Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.So there's a lot of issues they got to deal with there.But, you know, that's, that was my best guess, man.Look at that.We're talking about that car.Aspinall gone and Ilya Patty.
01:02:24My God.I mean, that would be.Yeah.You got a fucking.And that's biggest card of 20, 27.Yeah.Dude, now that you're saying it, and I'm thinking about it,and I'm like, you know what?
01:02:37You might not be wrong about that.It might be outdoors,but I think there's a way they can pull it off.That could be really cool.So, yeah, you might be right about that.The only other thing that I could think,because I can't think of anything in America,but the only other thing I could think would be,
01:02:49and I just, I don't see it,would be like a Tokyo Superdome type thing.Yeah.You know, but like, could they sell out the Superdome?don't know. You know what I mean? Like Japan just isn't the same as it was back then. Like a New Year's,you know, like they did like in pride back in the day. You know, maybe if they worked out a dealwith the broadcaster over there, that's like, but I think that's like a distant hope. You know,maybe they'd come out and give a tribute to pride and they'd have all, they'd have the lady on the
01:03:20mic and have all the fighters walk out at the beginning like they did. And I think that'd be coolshit but yeah that's like ait's like a pipe dream I thinkI mean even if they don't do it in Japan I think it wouldbe cool for the UFC to do a New Year's cardbecause I used to love that was like that waslike my tradition stay up all night watchpride fights on New Year's Eve just not
01:03:40the same now I'm not knocking rise in but it's just notthe same now like you know what I mean likebut back in the day dude like it was likestay up all night and watch freaking fightson New Year's Eve even if they don't do in Japanlike UFC doing a big card on New Year's Evewould be coolyeah absolutely yeah
01:03:54I just keep thinking like they're going to do something in a different country somewhereand do something gigantic somewhere else.Yeah.Because America, it's like you did the White House.Like you can't one up that.There's no, there is no one up to the White House.You did the fucking White House.I mean, like I already said, like the biggest arena, the biggest sports arena is Madison Square Garden.
01:04:13They do that every year.You know what other sports arena are they going to do is that iconic?Football stadiums are bigger.Yeah, but I mean, like they go to Allegiance Stadium.but they already did Terrence Crawford and Canello there.Like it's not the same level of special.You know, it's just like we're going to do a big fight at Legion Stadium.Cool.
01:04:30I went to Toronto when they did GSP Jake Shields.I was at that call, which was 50,000 people or whatever.It was cool.It was weird.Now, is it possible?I don't think this is, you know, what they'd be announced or anything.But is it possible?Sometime in the future, they do a crossover or a double event, Zufa boxing and UFC.
01:04:50And then, hell, they might even.throw fucking WWE in there or somethingyou know what I mean but but you know likehaving I don't knowwho you know Anthony Joshuaand Tyson Fury fight on the same night asAspenol gone in the same arenayeah I mean I know
01:05:06Dana's always like gotta keep them separate but come onnow like the amount of tickets you can sell something likethat the amount of paper views or whateverand maybe they do it like in Englandif they do like a big like you knowWimbly or whatever it is like the big where they dothe giant events over there imagine you could doAspinall gone there with Fury and
01:05:22Joshua? Holy shit.That's what I'm saying.Like, youdon't have to keep them separate.Everybody says, I'm sure he's going to say keep it separate until, you know,the fucking zero's on the end of the paycheck start showing.I was like, okay, that whole separate thing, I think we can get past that now.And I think, I mean, you know, Danny said, he said never have women's MMA either, right?
01:05:48Yeah.Here we are.Here we are with all these shitty women fights on every car now.Yeah, oh God, no more, please.Yeah, I mean, you don't know.And like I said, I think we're at a point now, like, you know, 20 years ago, you know,people were still referring to UFC as human cock fighting.Now, like, you could argue UFC is a bigger overall sport than boxing, you know, outside
01:06:08the big fights, you know, so that really, really big-name fights.Totally is it.People know, they're not confused.You know what I mean?There's no confusion.Like Tyson Fury is doing MMA.No, he's not.He's boxing.
01:06:18We know he's boxing.So I think you could do that event.And, like I said, if he's doing England,man, that would be huge.Think about how huge that could be, you know what I mean?So I don't know.I like the Coliseum idea.Patty, Ilya, Tepora,
01:06:31Aspidol gone.That's going to be my call, but we'll see.I like it.I like it.All right, we're going to get out of here.Obviously, I want to give people a chance.You know, obviously always support you, Matt,whatever else you got going on.
01:06:44So where can people find you what you got going on outside of this podcast?The Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook,at EmoryM.And the Immortal on Instagram and Twitter.And the Immortal.podcast. There you go. And as alwaysI always want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes in the show.We'll be back, or make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify.
01:07:02And of course, over in the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com.For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of the Fireversus the writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.
There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click any sentence in the transcript to leave one.