MMA Fighting - Fighter vs. Writer: Matt Brown Defends Ian Machado Garry, Reacts to Din Thomas’ Comments on Gillian Robertson

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

On the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer, UFC legend Matt Brown and Damon Martin discuss the fallout from UFC 330 including Islam Makhachev defending his title against Ian Machado Garry and where both fighters go from here. We also discuss Din Thomas’ decision to retire from cornering fighters after watching Gillian Robertson suffer a heartbreaking loss in the co-main event to Mackenzie Dern. All this and much more on the latest episode of The Fighter vs. The Writer! Subscribe to MMA Fighting Check out our full video catalog Like MMA Fighting on Facebook Follow on Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I'm Damon Martin. He is UFC legend Matt Brown. And Matt, we are now in the aftermath of UFC 330 where Islam Makachev went out and defended his welterweight title with a unanimous decision win over Ian Machado Gary. We both predicted, we both predicted Islam to win. I know you were a little less, you know, gave Ian a better chance than I did. I thought Ian did pretty well, all things considered, but ultimately, you know, Islam won the fight. What did you make? I know you were tweeting about it last night on during the fights. What did you make of the performance? What did you make in the fight? Yeah, you got to be impressed with Ian Gary, man.

He led it up to the expectations. You know what? Like I said, I've had a big expect, I don't know, I've thought that he had that in him for a long time. You know, I think I said it before the fight, right? Just wrong place, wrong time. You know, it's fucking Islam, man. You know, just the wrong guy. I'll tell you what, though.

I mean, I'm not going to say Ian gave that fight away, but that was Ian's fight to win, I feel like, right? I think like the opportunity for him to get it done were there. And I think you could kind of say the same for Islam too. Like, you know, he made it, I think he maybe could have done more than he did do. But man, I felt like Ian was right on the cusp a few times and just wasn't pulling the trigger. Dana said it to. I kind of agree with Dana, like he was a little too nice.

Like we don't really, we can save the hugs for, you know, afterward or whatever. But, man, you got to be impressed with Ian, man. You got to tip your hat to him on that one. I thought, and I think this is not quite the same as what happened to Jack Della Madalena, but I feel like guys are starting to approach Islam with that same, that little bit that same mindset guys did against Anderson Silva back in the day where they're kind of fighting him not to lose, you know, and not fighting him to win. Because, like, Ian showed really good.

The takedowns, like, you know, Islam would. get in deep on the single and then he would be able to find a way to reverse out of it, which is great. The problem is he never took advantage of it. He would hold on. He would get out of position, but then he wouldn't take advantage by hurting Islam, you know, for trying to continuously take him down. And I think it's that defensive mindset.

Like, I don't want to get submitted. I don't want to get ground and pound by Islam. We talked about this a lot of the Jack Del and Madelana fight. I said, I think he just fought not to lose. He fought to, I'm not going to get submitted. Well, you didn't get submitted, but you also didn't produce any offense. And I think that was Ian's mistake. When Ian actually got going, and he was the third round, he looked good.

Now, granted, I think Islam kind of took a round off. You know, he was pretty, after the head kick, knocked down everything in the second. I think he was probably just like adrenaline dump, and he slowed down and Ian won the round. But, yeah, I agree. Ian had opportunities. And I think that he'll look back at this fight and be like, damn, like, why didn't I do this or why didn't I do that? I think it was that fighting not to lose mentality is the way I saw it. I think there was a little bit of that.

And I think a little bit strategically. I mean, he said it himself and I agree with him. He's young and he's got a lot to learn. I think he'll learn a lot from his fight. But strategically, I thought he made some mistakes in terms of, for example, the counter-wrestling. Like, you know, he didn't just find a way to break away from the wrestling. He was literally like trying to wrestle with Islam Makachev. And, you know, he made some mistakes, which is what's going to happen when you're going

with the wrestler as good as Islam. Or the one time, Islam clenched him. and Ian pushed him against the cage and tried to reclinch him back instead of just breaking away. And I think some of those small mistakes, you know, I think he'll, if he does the right things, he'll go back

and fix those things. And, you know, it might come back a better fighter. Or, you know, sometimes we've seen this too. You kind of peek out for that championship fight and then you can't really get the fire back like you did for that, you know? Yeah, I mean, I think you could argue, like, the way that fight played out, that Ian probably, I don't want to say, you know, because obviously you got to let other fights happen, but I think he, you know, Ian could end up being one of the toughest matchups in the division for Islam because he is so tall, you know, he had good takedown defense. He's got to be a pretty, he's got good striking, not what I would call, like, lethal striking. He's not a one-punch knockout guy, but he has really good striking.

you could say this was potentially Islam's toughest fight at Welterway because as good as Carlos Pratchez is he's amazing we really haven't seen him on the ground too much he's still long and lanky like I don't know if he could survive on the ground with Islam

and you look at Michael Morales big kid lots of power but we've never seen that guy to go past like I think he's had a three round decision before but like could he hang with a guy with Islam's gas tank in the way he pressures people

like Ian Michato Gary may have been the toughest matchup for Islam at Welchway and he passed. I mean, he did a great job to win that fight. Well, we'll see about Michael Morales too, right? Because that's probably going to be the next fight for him, I'm guessing. Obviously, like either going to be him or

protest. I'm going to bet on Michael Morales. And, you know, Morales is just a big dude, man. He is a gigantic guy. Has mad power. Like, in my opinion, if he can, if he can stop to

takedowns the way that Ian did or at least deal with the takedowns as good as Ian did, like Islam's going to be a big trouble. Like he can't take the shots from Michael Morales like he did from Ian Gary. And that could be a big problem. You know, they talked about a lot on the broadcast last night. The move up and weight has certainly played its part in Islam's performances. I mean, we obviously, you know, he's not cutting the weight so he can have his cardio and feel better. But he's not putting guys away. He's not dominating guys like he was.

I mean, Volcanovsky is probably the only guy who really, you know, kind of scrambled with them and gave him a lot of trouble. You might be able to think of another one, but that's the only one I can think of. And but these guys, you know, at Welterweight,

it's a different beast, man. They're so much bigger. And, you know, that's what the difference between, like, boxing and MMA. In boxing, you know, it's like, four pounds for every weight class. So when guys go up, you know,

Mani Packett was an eight-weight world champion. You know what I mean? He ended up moving like one or two weight classes in the UFC. Yeah. Right? You know, so in the UFC, it's like it's such a bigger deal. You know, that's a 15-pound jump. You know, these guys are just so big for Islam.

And it seemed like it took his toll on his cardio last night, too. I think I think you're probably right. But also, I do want to give credit because I think, like, you know, when we watched a fight with Jack, you know, Jack was just fighting not to get submitted. That's really what he did. He got caught a couple of times, and he just fought not to get submitted. And I think Ian had a really good game plan in terms of avoiding the ground too much and getting caught in those bad positions. I don't want to chalk it up to that just yet.

Like if it keeps happening, like, you know, his third fight and fourth fight, like he does end up fighting process and Morales or however that ends up playing out, then there might be, like, a legit concern that he's just giving up so much size that he can't do to these guys what he did in lightweight. That being said, it does even the plan for a little bit because Deliways definitely couldn't hang with Islam. But at the same time, I don't want to discount it totally yet because we've seen guys go through laws like that where they just don't, you know, they don't finish fights for a little while or whatever. I mean, and he's still winning. You're fighting the best in the world, you know, in title defenses. Yeah, I mean, yeah. So, I mean, it's not the worst thing in the world that it happens. I mean, like I said, some guys he just catches and you're like, damn, like he just got him.

You know what I mean? Like, he never, he had that head kick knockout over Volcanowski when Volcanowski took that fight on 10 days notice. or whatever. When they had the first fight, he couldn't submit Volkanowski either, and that's a smaller guy. You know, so it just depends. Like, I don't want to, I don't want to chalk it up to like Islam's going to struggle. You know what I mean? Like, he won. At worst, he won three rounds to two. I had him four rounds to one. That's at worst. He won the fight. There's no controversy. No one saying, oh, Ian Machado, Gary got screwed or anything like that. Everyone knows Islam won. And I got to tell you, on that note, I was surprised that there wasn't more people kind of calling it a robbery.

And I only say that because of the damage. that Ian did, right? That's the first scoring criteria. Like, Islam, other than that head kick, I don't think he really did any damage at all, the entire fight. And Ian, again, I know he's getting pushed against the cage, you know, got to take down a few times. But he was striking Islam the whole time.

When you look at their faces, it was like Ian's face looked like it wasn't touched at all. I'm not sure if it was outside of that kick. Islam was beat up pretty good. His body had, he was raced. Red, like, in terms of damage, like, Ian won the fight in terms of damage. He did, but also, and I don't know if he saw this after the fight, and I'm not blaming him by any stretching imagination or saying it was a dirty move, but I don't know if you heard Islam say that

the broken nose where his nose got all mashed up. He said that was from a head butt. He took Ian down, and when Ian was throwing his head, I don't think he did on person. He threw his head back trying to break free, and he smashed him in the nose. So obviously that wouldn't be like, you know, he wasn't punching him or anything. But, yeah, no, I agree. Like, but I know, we've talked about this before on the show. Matt, like cuts and bruises on the face don't always mean you want to fight.

For sure. But if you look at like, I'm not making an argument that Ian won the fight. But if you're scoring solely on damage, like nothing else, do you score that fight for Ian? No, I don't score for Ian. On damage, like only damage. He did almost all his damage in like one round. That's the problem. I mean, he did a lot of damage in like one round.

The other four, he really couldn't produce a whole lot of options. offense and that's the probably but Islam didn't produce any offense either though well no I'm saying like the takedowns the control time like again that's not damage I know I'm saying I'm saying solely damage yeah solely damage is based on that sure but I mean that's not how a fight is scored so yeah yeah I agree but if that's the the number one criteria and again I'm not making the argument that he and won either. Like, Islam won the fight fair and square. But we were just talking

about, you know, the, I forget what we're talking about. But, you know, I had a point there, whatever it was. Well, I think like, we can sit and argue all day about the scoring criteria and things like that. But obviously, every round is a different round. And the problem

that I think Ian had is he did, he did damage him pretty good a couple times, but he did that sparingly. He didn't it over five rounds. You know what I mean? Based on the scoring criteria, Islam won that fight for sure. You know what I mean? Win the first round.

Head kick knocked down in the second. Obviously clearly won that round. Three and three was Ian's round. It felt like almost like Islam took the round off. Like he was just kind of like out there. And even in that moment though, like Ian didn't take full advantage. Like he popped him in the face few times, but he should have really been like, as soon as you see Islam slowing down, attack, man.

You got to go after him. And you just didn't do that. And I guarantee you Ian's going to go back and watch this fight and say, man, I wish I had done that or man I wish I'd done this he's going to realize his regrets pretty quickly um and i'll say what islam's going to go back and watch the fight and probably say the same thing like again i'm not going to make the argument that ian won this fight but if i'm in islam's camp we go back and we watch rewatch that fight and we look at that as a loss because i mean that fight was in my from what i was watching that was ian's fight to win like he had he cracked the code

he just didn't step through the door, right? The door was open for him. He just didn't step through it. Yeah. But, I mean, like I said, as much as we want to give Ian credit, and I know, like, it almost feels in a way unfair because you have to judge Islam a little different. He's number one pound for pound fighter in the sport.

He broke Anderson's record, 17 consecutive wins, which that may never be broken. I mean, that was standing since 2013, for Christ's sake, so it may never get broken. It's almost like we have to judge him differently because we expect so much from him. Like, it's like, remember, like, when George St. Pierre was on his run, and like, he had that fight with Carlos Condon, Carlos, you know, knocked him down the third round with the head kick. It's, oh, my God.

And then you start questioning, well, is, is GSP losing a step? What's going on? It's just because we judge them, you know, it almost feels like we judged them in a different way because we hold them in such high regard. No, I think there may be some of that. I try to look at it pretty objectively. And all I'm saying is, is that was a really close fight. like I'm I thought just based off the the way that the fights are judged you know I thought it was it was on probably four to one but in terms of like feeling good about the round like Ian probably

walked back in between every round and felt good about the round you know I mean like like he had a chance that he won that round other than I don't know one or two rounds right where he was just kind of taken down the whole time dominated but um like again if i if i'm in islam's camp we go back and we look at that footage and we view this as we lost this fight like think of it like this if we're if if if this represents a real fight right we're doing a sport right it's not a real fight but if this is a real fight keeping it real like i pick i and gary to win that fight over might take him an hour, right, however long it would take, an hour and a half, two hours, right?

Well, Sakaraba, hoist Gracie style, you know? But with zero rounds, like, I'm picking Ian Gary to win that fight. Here's the thing. And I want to ask you this question, Matt, because I know you heard, I'm sure you saw Dana talking about this. Let's just say the fight was two to going into that fourth round, which was what the, at least one scorecard had two, two. You come out in that fifth round, and you got to know, like, okay, there's a chance.

like I'm tied with the Walter Championship of the World I need to win this round. That is where to me Ian gave it away because Islam went out there to win. Now granted yes he wouldn't take him down again. He was working from the ground which is what his game is what he does but Ian wasn't doing

anything different to show that he just wanted that. When you're in that final five minutes you've got to go for it and it kind of felt like Ian just didn't go for it. So like that's what I said like when this is all said and done. Well he got to the point where it didn't have anything to go for either right? Yeah. Took his back and

didn't give him a shot after that. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. He didn't, he didn't like, and, but that was a different, that to me was the real difference right there. Islam's like, like, because I think, I talked to Javier Mendez today, his, one of his coaches, and he said, we told him, it's two, too, too, you need to win this fifth round. That's what they told Islam between rounds. It's two, too, you need to win this fifth round.

And what did Islam do? He went out there and went for it. And you could argue that was one of his better rounds. Like, you took him down to his back. It was, that was his best round, yeah. Yeah. And where was that? from Ian. You know what I mean?

Ian didn't have that same kind of, I won't say desperation, but like that I need me and you both kind of, we both picked his on for this fight, obviously. But the part, I think a big part of that reasoning was the fact that like Ian is not an opportunist. Like that's probably one of his biggest flaws. Like when the opportunity arises, like he just doesn't strike, right? He's very good to stay in the fight. He's very good at creating little chips here and there.

Again, like if these are hour-long no-round matches, I think Ian beats a lot of people's asses really bad, right? But in terms of, you know, you have to win rounds. Like, this is a sport. You have to win each round. And when the opportunities were there, he just simply didn't put his foot on the gas and take that opportunity.

Yeah, I think that's what I said. When he goes back and rewatches this fight, when he gets home, he's going to kick himself in the ass. He'd be like, man, why didn't I do this? Or why didn't I do that? I hope he does, man, you know, because the way that he was talking, he seemed, you know, you said it just a minute ago, you know, was he in there just to not lose, right? Or just to survive kind of, right, and had too much respect for Islam. And if he keeps that mentality, he might go back and watch the fight and be proud of himself.

Yeah, that's true. And that could be a problem, right? Like, you got to get better, man. But again, I'm saying that on both sides. Like, Islam needs to keep improving, too. I mean, he said himself, D.C. would say that, like, he's got to keep improving. If he's going to, he can't have performances like that against Michael Morales, right? If that fight, because Michael Morales is an opportunist, right?

If that fight plays out the similar fashion with Michael Morales, it only takes one shot from Michael Morales. Right? He's going to explode into something. He's going to take that opportunity. Ian just didn't take it. And Islam should be thankful for that. And here's a, I'm not making excuses by any stretch of imagination, but if that was Islam's, you know, bad night at the office, but he's still won, like, he can get better from this. We've seen, and everybody goes through that, by the way.

We've seen it with John Jones. We've seen it with George St. Pierre. We've seen it Demetri's Johnson really. What's going on? Why does this not look like it? It doesn't look like him. Yeah, yeah. And it could have been that for, I don't, I'm not saying it was.

I'm just saying it could have been that. That could have been Islam's bad night at the office. He just didn't feel himself. He didn't have his best performance, which clearly I don't think he did. But that's also credit to Ian Gary. But, yeah, it could just be like, yeah, that was his off night. But he still won. And that, to me, when you can have an off night or you can have a not great performance and still win,

I think that is a real mark of a champion. Because a lot of guys, when they have a bad night at the office, they just lose. You know what I mean? And Islam didn't. And when you watch that fifth round, you see a guy who's like, I'm not losing this fight. Whereas Ian Gary's like, eh, maybe I'll win. Maybe I'll pull it out. And Islam's like, no, no, no, no, you're not.

I'm going to win this fight. Yeah, that's just the difference between, you know, in Ian Gary's mind, I don't know what's going on as mine, but it's a difference between saying, I'm going to go do my best and try it hard as I can versus I'm not accepting no for an answer. And that's what it felt like Islam did in that fifth round. And, you know, but again, when we talk about, you know, did Islam have a bad night? I don't know. Like, did Ian just have a, you know, is it just Ian that fight?

fucking good. And I kind of tend to lean towards Ian is that good. I tend to lean that way as well, which is why I said, like, I'm not going to feel bad that that that Islam had to kind of eke it out. He had to kind of find a way to win that fits around to win the fight. Because guess what?

When you're fighting the absolute best in the world, you're not always going to roll over him. You're just not. Like, that's not going to happen. Like, everyone... Exactly what happened with Iliot-Tipori and Justin Gage. Everyone just assumed he's just going to roll through and destroy... He had his days. Yeah, you're going to just...

Ilya is just going to destroy Justin Gachie. Well, guess what? Justin Gajee is one of the gutsiest, hardest, most durable fighters ever created on this earth. And he didn't go away when that didn't happen. He started chipping away, and I'll have faded. You know what I mean? So there's no guarantees in this sport. That's why I say, like, I don't care if it was an ugly win or a great win or a beautiful win.

Islam won. We agree there. Like, we're not saying, like, he won the fight. And he's breaking records. He's still champion. Like, it's pretty remarkable what he's done. And I think, like, I'm with you. I think Ian had every opportunity.

in that fight and he didn't but that's also a credit to Islam that he did find a way to win yeah yeah yeah you got it yeah I couldn't agree more and that's uh I I'll just say it again look if I'm if I'm Islam's camp I go back and I view that as a loss and you need to get better in every area yeah you know I think particularly it's striking I mean he should to me I mean he has good striking but he showed a lot of vulnerability and his striking you know and I mean I mean, I think he really needs to get that better. He's got... Just because, you know,

you've got to be more than just one thing, right? And he's got... He's one of those guys that's got good enough striking that he can utilize his wrestling, right? He has good striking. I'm not going to dog that at all. But I just think it could be a lot better. And, you know, if he can't get a guy down,

like Michael Morales or Carlos Brattsis, which, you know, Carlos hasn't shown a ton of great take-down defense. So, you know, I'm kind of putting that on Michael Morales here, right? So if he can't take him down, that's going to be a big trouble for him, right? Again, it's not any in Gary who's going to sit there and wait for you to throw and try to counter you or be patient about the game. Like, if he stops a takedown, he's going to fucking wing bombs at you.

You better be defensively ready. Yeah. Islam said something last night. I tend to agree with them. He was talking about who should get the next shot. And he's like, I don't know why wasn't, why weren't Carlos and Michael Morales fighting tonight? Like, why didn't they fight each other tonight? And I was like, it's actually not a bad question.

Because, like, when you think about, when you think about where they were at in that fight and how big it could have been to have, like, let's say Michael Morales goes out there and knocks out Carlos Prochance. And then you bring him into the Octagon afterwards to set up that fight. Because right now we don't have that answer. And I get both sides of it. Carlos has a one loss to you and Gary, but since then he's knocked out Leon Edwards.

He knocked out Jack Delo Madelanahs or two former champions, huge wins. But then you look at Morales. He doesn't have that signature win. He has a winner with Sean Brady, which is great, but he doesn't have like that resume where you're like, man, it's just hitter after hitter after hitter. It's a lot of, you know, good guys, not great guys. So, like, I think those two fighting would have made a ton of sense,

and then you just settle the debate. And then everyone's like, oh, you lose a contender. The Yosey doesn't care about that that much because that can happen anyways. I mean, Carlos could go out there. There's always another fight. He could roll his ankle and lose a fight. And then he's out of, you know what I mean? There's always that.

So I think they should have had them fight. I think they kind of blew an opportunity not because I think that would have been a really cool, like a third fight on the car. You do the two title fights, but then you do that fight with, with Prochis and Morales. And now you know you have a number one contender. There's no question, no debate. The number one contender is coming out of that fight. Yeah. Yeah, that's one way you could do it.

Yeah, I don't disagree. That would be exciting. I mean, what a fucking fight that would be, right? I mean, I think those guys got a, you know, they're bound to meet each other sometime down the road, you know, whenever that is, wherever that is. That's going to be an absolute fucking war. Obviously, you know, they're hoping that that's for a title shot,

but we'll see how that all plays out. But that's going to be a fantastic fight. And to be fair, I mean, Michael Morales, like you said, he doesn't have that signature win. Sean Brady, to me, is kind of his signature win. But, you know, he also doesn't carry the name value yet either. Yeah. Like all of us, we all know who he is.

And anybody who is a hardcore fan knows who he is, he still doesn't have that name. Like, Carl, Carlos Protest is one of those guys that you just kind of recognize him right away, right? Like, he's charismatic. He's a character. He's a wild man. You know, he's got a little schick, you know. He's had a couple of main events, you know, he's been out there. Yeah.

So, yeah, no, I agree. And here's the thing. You've already hinted that. I'll just agree with you. I think Michael Morales is the toughest matchup in this division for Islam Makachev. But the problem is he doesn't have the name value. He doesn't have that signature win. That's why I say, like, if we just stop the world right now and say who deserves the title shot,

I would say protest because he does have, like, his last two wins over two former champions. And he destroyed both of them. Leon Edwards and Jack Della Madlainer are not bad wins, and he absolutely dismantled both of them. So, yes, Carlos deserves it more, and you're right, he's a bigger name, people like him. Like, when he goes on screen, people scream and chant and all that kind of stuff. But I think the toughest matchup is Michael Morales. That dude's huge. He's got good take down to the best.

I mean, one punch. I know Carlos has one punch knockout power, too, but there's just something about that kid. But I think he's got, I think he's got to get at least one more big win. He's got, you know, and maybe, like, maybe they match him over to Ian Gary. I don't know if they do that. Maybe Ian beats him. But like, he's got to get one more big win because I just don't think you can really sell that to the world that this guy, as good as he is, is going to take on the number one pound for pound fire in the world right now. That's why I was like, if I'm Morales, I would call out protest.

I would call him out and say, let's go. Let's make this a number one contender fight. Because he beats Carlos, there's no argument. Yeah, there's no argument then. I'll tell you what the, if you're Islam, though, and maybe he's at a point where he has a say in this too, right? Sure. if you're islam if i'm islam i go with michael morales

only based on like i don't want him to get more experience i don't want him to face a a wrestler like me and learn from that like well i mean he did with sean brady right but i don't i don't need this guy having more experience i want to take him out now carlos protest has a lot of fights if i'm correct me if i'm wrong but carlos project is really experienced we kind of know who he is at least this how i feel about it we kind of know who he is and of course you can always develop some things michael morales like doesn't have nearly the experiences protest and correct me if i'm wrong on that but yeah so if i'm islam i'm back but let's get this morale shit done with or if you're

islam again depending on how you feel about that performance do you even put it at risk Do you just call it a day? Do you call it a day? Be like, you know, the reason I say that is because, look, okay, if he goes out and loses to Michael Morales, what happens to his legacy? Is it the same as if he retires right now? I mean.

It's not. It's not. If Khabib went out and he fought a few more times and he lost to, I don't know, Justin Gagey in a rematch or something, his legacy is completely different. Like people still put Kibibib, is, you know, one of the, some people argue he's the greatest of all time, because he's undefeated.

Yeah. I mean, I saw someone put out a list today. They said, you know, like, because when I talked to Javier Mendes, I asked about the goat debate, you know, we were talking about that beforehand. He's like, he's like, he's not to go yet. He, I flat on saying he's not to go yet, but he should be in that, like, top five conversation. I think that's fair.

I agree. I think that's fair. You know, you look at John Jones, George St. Pierre, Demetrice Johnson, Habib, and then, you know, maybe Islam. I'm not putting them in order. just saying like that would probably be the five I guess um that's fair but also I think if you're Islam and and and I like Islam's mindset like he just wants to keep going and he's not like he knows it's legacy he knows it's important but I don't think he's of that mindset of like you know

I have to I have to win to just do you know what I mean like I feel like he just I'm not saying him personally but if you're his manager yeah it like or you're his wife or something you're like hey I just want you to have the most value legacy that you could possibly have. After that Ian Gary Fy, do you take the risk of keeping going or do you say, look, I'm already in that goat conversation. Like, I think that you

could make arguments to, you know, like for instance, you know, people would argue John Jones not be in the great with his steroid stuff, right? Sure. 100%. So there's, but there's people and you can say lost Dominic Ray is just throwing it out there. Yeah, yeah. Exactly, right?

Or Gustafson maybe. You know, there's so at this point if he retired today like I think there's people a niche of people that would argue that Islam is the greatest of all time

there I think there's going to be a portion of people that say that but I don't think the vast majority would and I think is a but if he goes and loses yeah well no I that's the risk you take and like that's the big argument against Kabib

he retired at 29 I know, but everyone knows he retired right in his prime. Like, he absolutely could have gone on for two or three years. And I think there's a really good chance he would have gone undefeated 35 and no. Like, that's just how good he was. And also, he wasn't going up in weight class. But we don't know because we didn't see it, right? But think of the flip side.

Think of the flip side. What if Islam goes out there and dispatches Michael Morales and dispatches Carlos and I don't know who else will be coming up the pipe at that point, but he beat somebody else. And then he's got five title defenses of welterweight, four title defenses of lightweight, his win streak is now like 21 in a row which is probably never going to get touched like then then like then it's hard to say because like even though I call John Jones

the greatest of all time and I stand by that you can make the argument about the steroid thing you can make the argument about you know the Reyes fight I can't really argue with you I can just say yeah you know yeah you're not wrong but I still think this is a personal opinion you know because when you look at George St. Pierre they say well you know John Jones never had a loss

to Matt Seri never had a loss to Matt It's true. I can't argue that. He never got, you know, taken out and tapped out from strikes, whatever. But if you're Islam and you do that, you take out four or five guys at Welterweight and you've already had the lightweight record. Then it's getting awfully hard for people to argue against him as the greatest. That's what I'm saying. Like, right now he's into conversation. But if he keeps going and keeps winning, which I think he can, then you're like, I don't know, man. It's going to be awful hard to say he's not the greatest. So I think that's really. what he's looking at here, you know what I mean?

Yeah, and don't get me wrong. I agree with you. I mean, I'm a shoot for the stars guy. I agree with you. Yeah, I was just kind of curious what you would respond to that because, look, I mean, if he retired today, again, there's a strong argument to be made that he's, I mean, he's already at least top five, right? Sure, sure.

I think that's pretty much said in stone. It's like, do you just accept that and walk away? Or do you take that risk? you know, because, like, I just wonder what happens if, you know, let's say he fights Michael Morales and, and hypothetically, I don't think it's going to happen, but hypothetically, you know, it gets worked, right, or it gets knocked out. And, you know, of course, they'd have a rematch and maybe it happens again. Like, do they start saying you're not one of the greatest of all time now? Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think it obviously, it matters. It obviously matters to Islam, but I think, I know he's not in the goat conversation.

But I just think of, you know, Alexander Volcanowski, like what he went through these last couple years. Like, he took his chance and he had one of the greatest fights ever with Islam. That was the first fight was incredible. That was an amazing fight. He lost. And then obviously, he did the 10-day rematch, which was probably not his best move, but he took a shot and he missed and he got knocked out. And then he probably came back too soon when he fought I'm not making excuses for the loss. Came back like four months later or whatever.

I'm like, dude, that's not a good idea. He's got a headkick knocked out by Islam. Do you really want to fight Ilya? And he got knocked out. And it kind of felt like the world moved on. Like, Volk's done. He's old man, Volk. He's done.

And I know I'll have the division. But he comes back and he beats Diego Lopez twice and then reclaims the title. Now we know he's fighting Mosaar in October, which I cannot wait for, by the way. But this is a 38-year-old guy who was written off after a few losses and now he's back being championed again. And I still argue as great as Jose Aldo was, and I think Jose Aldo is amazing. I still think Volks's the greatest featherweight of all time. Now, maybe that doesn't matter to him. Maybe he's not chasing that particular goal.

But, like, I just think about that. Like, I'm not saying, like, if Islam gets knocked out by Michael Morales, would it be bad? Sure. But who knows? Maybe he's like, you know, I am going to go back to lightweight because, you know, I was never really a welterweight. I just never really a welterweight. Maybe he goes down there. He just absolutely wrecks Justin Gates and he wrecks Ilya.

Then we're not saying that goes away. But, like, you know, we can move on from it and be like, ah, he just wasn't really a welterweight. So I don't think it's the worst thing in the world. And like I said, this sport is about taking risks. And he's come this far. I mean, 17 wins in a row and a two-division champion. Take out. And I think he can beat Michael Morales.

I absolutely believe he can. I just think Michael Rawls is a very dangerous opponent. Same thing with Carlos Prochance. But I think after watching Saturday, I think, I'm being just being honest, I think Ian Gary may be the toughest matchup at Welterweights. Yeah, I just don't know Michael's take down defense, you know? And what's his cardio? Can he hang with his long?

Yeah, he goes to him? big one too yeah i mean just the thing that that it comes down to is you know like you can only do this shit for so long that i mean for one what is i'm what 38 years old 34 34 oh 34 okay so yeah so he's probably still yeah in prime in terms of physical and everything but um but the the fact is the more you do this the more people see the weaknesses yeah right like everybody like i mean he's got had the target on his back for a long time had some close fights like with voluil and now with Ian and everybody's day comes. So, you know, but look, I mean, you got to tip your hat to him too, man.

Like the dudes out there getting it done and you know what he's going to do and he keeps fucking doing it. Yeah, 100%. You know, and look, these are these are proper matchups for him, Morales and protests. Like you said, you know, they're strikers, knockout guys more or less. And, you know, so it's the type of matchup that does work in his favor, right? You know, it's not a Movsar type that, you know, he's, you know, like he had a really close fight with Armin, right? You know, it's like he doesn't have to necessarily deal with that in the near future. So, you know, these are the proper matchups.

Yeah, so go chase the fucking greatness, man, go for it. I love it. Yeah, and like I said, I mean, I think that, and those are all, like I said, dangerous fights, but winnable fights. You know what I mean? Like Carlos Proch is incredibly dangerous, but we know it's a winnable fight. I think Morales is the same way just because he is so green, you know what I mean? I mean, we just don't know. Like, he's a dangerous dude, but maybe he just gassed after one round,

and then Islam just absolutely malls him. I mean, anything could happen. So, and then, like I said, that's how close. Like, that's why I say I think Islam's going to keep going or he should keep going is because he's that close. Like, he's a couple, maybe a couple of three wins away from just solidifying himself as the greatest. You know what I mean? I think you're right on that, to be honest.

Yeah, because, I mean, look, he beats both those guys. Maybe, you know, maybe does a couple more after it, which is kind of up to him, Right. Yeah, it's going to be hard to argue against being the greatest at that point, right? Yeah, you're that close. It's almost like, take your shot. Take your, you know what I mean? Like, he's not in the same boat as some guy. He could be the greatest. We're literally being like, you're a winner two from being the greatest. So at that point, rolling the dice, take your end. I don't think he's really rolling and dies. He's that good. He can win those fights. So, yeah, you know. And I just want to see him get his striking a little bit better. More defensively, man. Like, that makes me nervous with him. and Morales and protest, you know. Of course, you know, again, we don't know much about Morales, but, like, I don't think process has to take down defense that Ian Gary has

where he'll be able get off those types of shots. But, man, if he leaves himself open the way he did against Ian Gary, I just see that not going so well for him. Yeah. You know, like those types of shots that Ian landed, if that's a Michael Morales shot or maybe even a process shot, boy, that's a fight-changing shot. shit right there. And they do have

fucking killer instinct. And I'm not making excuses, but I have to wonder, like, when he watched, when he, when he stood and was striking with Ian, did he have the mindset of like, he can't be knocked out? He can't knock me out because Ian just doesn't have that kind of power. You know what I mean? Maybe he's just like, you know, he didn't have to worry.

Like that third round, Ian absolutely won the third round on the feet, but he didn't really, like, he didn't hurt him. He didn't put it to him to where he's like, oh, grabbing his midsection or you know, backing off to the corner. Like, he won the round, but I have a hard time believing Islam would fight that way against the Carlos process or Michael Morales, you know what I mean?

So maybe there was less of a danger factor for me, Ian. You might be spot on with that, to be honest, because look at the fact is, what Ian could never do that entire fight was just get Islam's respect, right? I think he did a couple times, but then Islam earned it back or took it back away, right? Yeah. But that's what you have to do with this guy like Islam. Like you have to get his respect and get him worried about what you're doing versus him constantly thinking about what he's doing.

Yeah, 100%. Well, like I said, it's going to be fun. Whether it's Morales, process, whatever it is. It's going to be fun. Welterweight. I've always said Welterweight is the best division. Sport has been for a long time. I saw Matt Brown's name pop up a few times on that broadcast on Saturday with Neil Magny

got his win on the prelims. He has 11 finishes now, and they're like, number one finishes. Matt Brown, 15. I didn't even know I had the most finishes. You had the most knockouts too, but you also have the knockouts are 13, most finishes with 15.

Luke is one behind you, but he's not fighting a welterweight anymore, so. Oh, did he move up to 85? Yeah, he's 85. He fought yesterday, right? I thought I see the fight. He lost Trashong Gore. Yeah, he lost that fine.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I remember, I thought Trayshon Gore cut, you know, I couldn't hear the audio. I was at an event, and I thought Trishon Gore must have cut down. I was like, okay. Nope.

Yeah, but they put it up for... I'll take that. So you're still... It's going to be really, really hard for him to break your knockout record, because I think second place is like seven or whatever. It's pretty far back behind you. But most finishes is 15, and Lucke was at 14, but he's now fighting at Walterway. Now Neil Magnus is 11.

That's still four more finishes to even tie Matt Brown, which is pretty damn impressive. That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, that's a cool stat. I didn't even know I had the most finishes, so... Yeah. That's a little feather in the cap there I love it It kind of reminds me of like the Islam

I know it's not the same record But Islam breaking Anderson's record That took like 13 years for a guy to get there Like you haven't fought in a few years And like you're still like way ahead Like you're at 15 second place is 11 Like that's a fun That's a lot to ask for the guy

To get four more finishes To tie your record Nice nice I'll take it I should promote that more often huh We should talk about that every week You know Yeah most finishes

Most knockouts of well I definitely remarked the most knockouts because like when they did the, I care who it was, I got a knockout. He's like, I want to break the record. I was like,

dude, you're at seven. You're a long way from getting close to match record. Who was that? I care who it was. I'm not knocking the guy. I'm just like,

you guys have some work to do, man. Seven's a long way from 13. I just say, I remember this conversation. Yeah. But yeah, I can't remember who it was either.

Yeah, but I was like, that's pretty impressive man to have that record. It stayed there for a while. I mean, what I want to, my goal, one of my goals in life is to train the guy that breaks my record and do it as a champion.

That would be very cool. That would be funny. I was talking to when I was talking to Javier Mendes today, we were talking about like everyone for the longest time, and you notice, we never heard the narrative that Islam lived in Kabib's shadow and shadow when he finally retired, he got to shine. I was like everyone always wanted to make something like, everyone wants to create something like, oh, jealousy or whatever. It's like, no one is a bigger fan of what Islam is doing right now.

now than Khabib. And he's like, oh yeah, he's like, he's like, there is no bigger fan of Islam Kachadha than Khabi Narakab. He's like, that dude loves what Islam's doing. I was like, see, I want that narrative to get out of there because everyone's like, oh, he's breaking Kabib's record, he's going to do this. And I was like, I don't think Kibb cares one bit. I think he's excited that Islam's doing that. Yeah.

Yeah, you can tell he is. He's the first one in the octagon hugging Islam. And you can even tell in the corner, just the way he's cornering him. He's so passionate about it. Like, just, you know, you can just see the emotion in his face. Yeah.

Those guys are, I did a stat last night between Usman to Magamatov, Khabibib, Islam, and Umar, they have a combined record of 100 wins and two losses. Oh, shit. How freaking ridiculous is that? Damn. All right. And, you know, we've seen other teams get torn apart in situations where, like, one guy wants, you know, we all know the Rashad and John Jones thing.

These guys are still, like, this is a family. And, like, they're never going to. I remember talking to Usman two years ago. And I was like, are you ever going to go? go to the U.S.C. and fight there. And he's like, as long as Islam's champ, I'm not going anywhere near there because I don't want to fuck with Islam. He didn't say it like that. He's like, I'm not going to mess with Islam. Islam left the division. Now he's like, I can go over and I think Ushman will eventually end up in the U.S.C. But he wasn't going to

mess with that as long as Islam's champion. When Islam moved up, now Uspin's like, I can go. That's just the respect they have for each other, man. Yeah. Yeah, I love that, bro. I love that. And I like how they kind of said, like, they're like, they don't really go outside of their camp. They're like, dude, we got, you know, 10 world champions on the match at any given day. Like, why do we need to go anywhere? Yeah. It's really cool what they're doing, man. What a great team. Hell of

a hell of a coaching staff, too. It could be Van Javier Mendes. I mean, how many guys, Javier? Javier was Kane Velasquez's coach. Daniel Cornier's coach. I mean, John Fitch's coach, like he was, he's an incredible coach in his own right. You put all that brain power together, man. You got a hell of a team. Absolutely, yeah. Couldn't agree more.

Real quick before we get out of here, Matt. I'm only bringing this up because, you know, obviously you were a fighter, but you're also a coach. You coached your fighters all the time. You got a couple of fighters coming up with fights. I know Josiah just booked a fight. You got your guy in one championship coming up. But Gillian Robertson lost a pretty ugly fight with McKinsey Dern.

Wasn't a great fight. You know, my opinion on women's in May right now. It's not really good. But hey, it is what it is. She lost. And then afterwards, her coach, Dean Thomas, who I have a lot of respect for. I know Dean, we're not like best buddies, but I've known him for a lot of years. You know, always been a really good guy.

But he went on the post-fight show and said, I'm making an announcement. I'm retiring from cornering. I wanted to see, you know, I was going to stick by Jillian as long as I could to take her as far as she could go. I think tonight was as far as she can go, which is, I don't know,

it seems a little mean to say to your fighter, like right after a really tough title fight loss, and he basically said, I'm retiring from cornering, I'm not cornering anybody anymore. I'll still work with guys, but I'm not cornering. Matt, kind of a two-part of here. Like, one, what do you make of that statement?

And, like, I don't care how you want to phrase it. It's just awful timing. It really felt like he was kind of chucking Jillian under the bus because she didn't have an ugly loss. It wasn't a great fight, but, like, I think she's gone as far as she can go, so I'm walking away. And I'm like, damn, man. Like, so as a coach, and you know, you've been on both sides,

but when your fighter wins and when you're fired a loser, I didn't know when Josh went over to one championship and blew his knee out, like a minute into the fight. That's heartbreaking. That's heartbreaking. You travel halfway around the world, making your one championship debut, and you blow your knee out. That's heartbreaking.

So I'm curious, like, because like, if the fight was over, you're like, you know what? I think Josh has gone as far as he could. I'm done cornering him. And he's sitting there with his knee all fucked up. Like, that's just, I don't know. What do you make of what Dean Thomas said or how he, how he handled that situation? Well, first, I'm going to assume that they already had some sort of understanding of this before. You know, I don't know for sure if that's the case.

But I'm going to assume that, you know, whatever sort of relationship they have, like this was, They had this understood beforehand. This wasn't, probably wasn't a surprise. And secondly, again, I don't know what their relationship is. Like, I don't know Dean that well. I've met him a few times. But, you know, I guess I operate differently. And I'm not saying this is the right way or the wrong way or anything.

But I know a lot of these coaches, they do it sort of on a business transaction, right? like you pay me this amount and I'll coach you or you know you do this for me I do this for you whatever I'm always clear with my fighters that the relationship comes first like I'll train you as a friend you know because like we like hanging out together we like working together and and I'll just give you all the information that I got because I want to see you succeed as a friend and when you have that kind of relationship like you stick with your person you know no matter what again, I don't know what their relationship is, so it's kind of hard to really speak on, you know, how it would feel about it. It seemed like odd timing.

And again, I don't know Dean, but, you know, it seemed odd to kind of make it about himself a little bit in that situation. Like, you just talk about the fight, right? Like, you're an analyst, like, just talk about the fight and, you know, what happened in the fight. And I think you kind of leave it at that. That's not knocking him because, you know, maybe for him that was a little bit of a bittersweet moment too, right? You know, where maybe he said to himself, maybe he, because the other option or the other way to look at other side of the token is maybe he felt that that was the best that he could do. And it's his fault that she lost, right? And maybe that's kind of what he meant by that.

It's like, I've done as much as I can do. like you need to get a better coach. It just didn't sound like. It just didn't sound like that when he's just like, I think she's gone as far as she can go. And listen, you're right. Maybe they had that agreement. Like if I don't become champion tonight, you know, you should go do your analyst thing and do your, you know, do your TV show thing you're doing. But like the timing of it is what I really have a problem with.

It's one thing like if he goes later this week and has, and Jillian's there with him. And he's like, I'm so proud of you. You worked your ass off. But I think we've probably gone as far as we can go. and I want you to continue to achieve your dreams and I just don't know that I can help you anymore than I already have and then you do a little Mia Copa

on a little video or whatever and they put it out. I'm cool with that, but it's just like the night of the fight to go on a broadcast and like this is the official post-fight show. You didn't do it on Instagram or you know like she's not there.

To literally say I think she's gone as far as she can go that that stings man because we don't know. Like we've seen plenty of people lose ugly title fights and come back and win. Like, you know, it's all you want. wanting it and J-Chic, get knocked out and come back and win the title.

We've seen lots of people have those performances just like, what is going on here? And they come back two years later, year later, and they win. I just like, man, that just seems kind of cruel. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I know that you're upset, and maybe she didn't follow your game plan and she didn't listen to what you wanted her to listen. I get all that. Hell, Javier told me today, he's like, I was shouting at Islam to do something.

He wasn't listening. He's like, Islam did not listen to my cornering advice. I was like, it happens. But like, he didn't, after the fight, he didn't come out and say, you know what, Islam, you didn't follow my advice. I'm done couring you. Like, it just seemed like really bad timing to do it in that moment. And I agree with you about, like, making it about himself.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't hear him, like, offer any words of encouragement or, like, it was a tough night at the office. I feel bad for Jillian. It was, I think she's gone as far as she can go. I'm walking away. That just seems really cruel. Yeah, I didn't think it was really necessary to get, like, you should have saved it for

later. But also, maybe he'll come out this week. or next week or something and explain further, maybe a tweet or a post on Instagram or whatever, and explain further and it'll be better understood. The way that he did it, I'm not a fan of, but look, you know, I'll reserve judgment for, you know, once I got all the facts, you know,

and we simply don't have all the facts, right? Again, we don't know what the relationship was. Maybe there's more to it than that. So, you know, that's just kind of how I'll operate, you know. Would you, let me ask you this question, though. Would you ever do that to one of your fighters? Let me put it back.

I understand there's lots of other, you know, potential factors. Or maybe they had that agreement before. But like I said, the way it played out, it didn't sound like that. Certainly didn't sound like, we talked before the fight and we decided to, you know, he didn't say any of that. He's just like, I'm done. Well, the other potential is, you know, he's worked with it for a while and he's told her what she needs to do. Maybe she's not doing what he's telling her to do.

And he's like, all right, I'm done with this shit. know she got as far as she can go and I'm not really I'm not really interested in this that's that's normal with fighters bro you tell them to do this tell them do that you know you got these years of blood sweat and experience and they're like all right well I'm gonna do this and you're like okay well still be in your corner I guess but I don't know why so it could be one of those situations too you know maybe she's one of those stubborn people that doesn't really listen so you get I'm not going to totally reserve judgment but would I do it I hope I wouldn't.

Like on the night and if I'm like in Josiah like I did. But if it's, you know, if it's one of those guys who you like you're just frustrated working with them and then you know you build a gameplay, you watch hours of footage, you go in the gym and you train with it. And then they don't do anything that you told them to do.

You know, maybe that was kind of his little comeback on that. Like if you're not going to do it, I'm tell you do, then you got as far as you can go. I'm out. And you know what? Once again,

I'm fine with that. Just don't do it on national television. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Coaching is a hard fucking job, and it's selfless.

And, you know, it's very easy to get negative on yourself and and on the fighter and the situation, the relationship. It's very,

very easy to turn this into a negative thing. So I can empathize with that. Maybe that's why I'm not as harsh on him here. as maybe you're expecting. But, you know, it's such a fucking selfless job, man. And so many of the coaches I know, they'll say it way worse than me. Like I keep an optimistic, positive mindset about it.

I'm kind of particular about who I work with. But, man, it can be a fucking miserable job at times. And when you see your fighter go out there and, you know, just get dominated. and, you know, maybe they, he'd worked on positions with her specifically, and then she got exploited in those positions. And he's like, you know, you didn't train what I told you to train, right? He's frustrated, and maybe that's a common thing that they've dealt with. And, you know, when you deal with these types of situations,

like I kind of understand where you could be saying something like that. Maybe that's not the case either, though. Again, that's where, like, I just don't know enough to really say anything of something. substance to it other than, yeah, that's not who I am, I hope, and I hope that I wouldn't do something like that. Yeah, you remember the situation came about a few years ago when Sean Strickland had that really ugly fight to rematch with Drichis and his coach, Eric Nickson, who is one of the best dudes in this business, like incredibly nice guy, incredibly good coach.

They had a little, I don't say a war of words, but they kind of, you know, he's like, I don't want to be there. He's not listening. He's not doing what I'm telling him to do. and I don't know if I want to corner him again or something like that. And then Sean's like upset about it. And he's like, I'm not going to. And then, you know, time passes.

They kind of make up. And obviously, Eric was back in his corner and he wins the title. Bees Hamza and everything's good. That was one of the more public situations. I was like, this is weird. But I understood the frustration from Eric's point. He's like, he didn't do anything I'm telling him to do. And then, you know, Sean had his rebuttal.

And it was ugly for a few months. And then they got back together and they're still great friends. And obviously, you know, Sean went out and picked up one of the biggest wins of the year, but beating Hamzaa Chamaev. everyone's going to handle different. I remember when Holly Holie Holm. I think it was a Myra Boina Silver. Remember that when she got choked out?

She had like head and arm choked at standing or whatever. And I talked to Mike Winklejohn, who has been her coach for decades. And, you know, he was like, dude, it sucks, you know, but I know Holly. She's going to come back better from this. But everyone's got a different coaching style. You know what I mean? There's no right or wrong way to it. I think just in that situation, it's just like nobody feels worse on that night than Jillian Robertson,

who just did not, I mean, she just got taken down and basically just got, you know, basically mauled on the ground. Didn't get, didn't get submitted, didn't get, you know, didn't get finished, but she didn't really produce much offense. And I guarantee you she's going to be upset for weeks after this. She lost her title fight. She lost her opportunity. She may not ever get another one.

I get it. That to me is just like, why kick your fighter when she's already down? Like, you know, like a week later, two weeks later, or do it privately. And then, like, when her next fight's coming up and you're not in a corner, when's like, why are you not in her corner? we came in agreement. I'm going to just do the analyst thing. She's going to have a new coach in her corner.

I guess the timing of it, man, that's what bugs me. It's like, dude, any other time. Don't go on national TV. And I think you were right. Like, he kind of made it about himself. He's like, this is really hard. And I think I've taken her as far as she can go. And I'm like, man, what a poor choice of words tonight of all nights.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Again, it wasn't in great taste. But look, you know, those guys are there talking for hours at a time. So, you know, they're going to say some stupid shit or some shit that we don't agree with. So, you know, Joe Rogan says off the wall shit all the time. Even cursed recently.

That was hilarious, too, and he did that. Yeah. You know, so, you know, I try not to hang on every word. Hopefully, you know, the best case scenario goes to Gillian and they stay friends and, you know, and, you know, they can work out whatever, whatever it is. And look, I don't know how many people watch the fucking post-fighted. show anyway, you know? I don't know how many people are even listening. I mean, it blew up because

I saw like major, like the major sports websites picked, picked it up. They're like, you know, Dean Thomas taking a lot of criticism for what he said, and I'm like, oh, yeah. And I will say this, like, I don't know Dean, like we're not best friends or anything, but every time I ever talked to him, he's always been really cool with me. I remember I was down at ATT when he was still

coaching there, and I was there for doing a feature on Yawani on J-Chek, so I was there for the full week, and I'm just like hanging out of the gym. And Dean walks by me and seen me in a while, and he passed me on the bell and he goes, looks like you put on a couple pounds there, Damon. I was like, oh, you know, whatever. And as he was standing there, and I just give him as good as I get. And I was like, I don't know about me, Dean, but you might want to go up a t-shirt

size or two the way you're looking and he just laughed to me. So that's just the way. He's just like that ballbuster. And I think, like, I think Dean's a good guy. I think he's a good coach. He's obviously a good dude. I just think it was really bad timing. Like, just really bad time.

Yeah, yeah, it seemed like it. But yeah, like I said, I don't know well enough to really say anything. the relationship. So, you know, I kind of, I try to stay in my lane on that shit, bro. You know? I think Josiah has a big fight coming up. I think he's going to win. Obviously, that's your boy.

But if he loses, I don't want you to come out afterwards. But you know what I'm done with Josiah? Fuck this guy. I'm done coach you. No, I would never do that to Josiah. But, yeah. So this weekend, we actually have a couple of pretty good fights from Sacramento. You got Fluffy Hernandez and Gregor Rodriguez.

That's a really interesting matchup. That's a real interesting fight, yeah. Ben Ardeter and Reineer de Ritter moving up to Light Heavyweight to take on Roman Delizze. And I know this is, this is Ryan Neer's first car. He went to American Top Team. He left Kilcliffe and now he's training at ATT. So a couple good fights this weekend, you know? So not an incredible card, but pretty solid card.

Yeah, absolutely. What's the next big card we got coming up? September, we got Armin versus Mauricio Rufi and Joshua Van versus Alessandre Pantosia. Yeah, that's some sick fights. What's the date on that? September was it USC. Let me look at up real quick here. It must be like 19th or 18th, probably.

USC 331 is September 19th. Yeah, 19th. Yeah, the week before Josiah's fight, all right. Yeah, so, yeah, I know Josiah's fight got announced. That's going to be a good one. So, yeah, that's going to be a good card. But, yeah, we got that. Man, I know you're excited to announce.

They finally announced Jan and Rabb three. And obviously we got Mosaar and Volcanowski finally booked. So I'm really looking forward to that one. Yeah, we got a great. great year ahead of us, man. A lot of good fights. You know, my curiosity is what is this big event that Dana's talking about? You know, have you heard any

any great buying rumors? People keep hitting me up and they're showing me pictures like they're doing the thing because they did that, that Rico Verhoeven fight in front of the pyramids. And they're like, they're going to go to Egypt or like they're not going to go outside again. I don't care if it's Egypt or not. But I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know because, like, I mean, they've done the White House like that.

You're not going to get bigger than that, obviously, but, like, I don't know. It's kind of curious because, like, where would they go? Like, what, you know what I mean? Like, the only thing I could think was the Coliseum, but I know they've already tried to do that. And, and I think they tried to do that, right? And Dana's like, it's not possible or something. They wanted some ridiculous amount of money to do it there. Like, yeah.

But maybe they worked out a deal with them somehow, you know? Yeah, I was just trying to think of, like, iconic, like, venues in the States or, like, can but I really like, and I understand like part of it's just like my skepticism because like you can't be bigger than the White House. Like what are they going to do? Like you're going to do it in the Pentagon or something? Like I don't know. Maybe like the North Pole on Christmas?

Yeah. The Santa, you don't see Santa Claus. I don't know, but like I like these teas. I just don't know where they would do it at because like they've done like MSG is probably the most iconic sports arena in America. They go there every year. They go there every year. So like where would you go?

Like what would you do? I mean Dallas Stadium But Yeah I mean that's just a big stadium Is that like You know something to be pumping up like this though you know Yeah like I don't know I hope whatever it is I hope I'm sure I'm just like doing the sphere

Like I'm sure it'll be cool but like even that I don't know like the sphere is pretty unique There's not another one of those like you know what I mean So I don't know I don't know what it would be That's that my My only guess is the Coliseum like because it's You know that's as big as you can get I think You know, cool as you can get, right?

And, I mean, imagine the production there, right? With the, you know, what they did at the White House, they do something like that at the Coliseum. I mean, my God, dude, they could do something amazing there. That would be really cool. I don't put it past them. Like I said, every pull up the White House, and that card looked, and the entire production was remarkable.

Like, I, that's one. Like, I don't agree with Dane on everything, but I definitely agree with them. Like, that should win every Emmy Award or whatever production award you can win. Like, that was one of the most ridiculous shows. And they pulled it off, man. It was really, really well done. I still say to this day, greatest sporting event in sports history.

Yeah, I mean, you're not wrong. I don't know how you top it, right? Maybe like the thrill in Manila is up there, right? Or, you know, back in the 20s and 30s, I mean, there's a myriad of events that were gigantic that they did all the time. But, you know, but they didn't have the means of production back then, right? Yeah. I still, every time I see a photo of Justin Gagee reading the Declaration. of Independence before walking out to his fight from the oval

and something. This is the most ridiculous thing ever. I'm like, did this actually happen? Like, did this really happen? I know, right? They just put it together so well. That's why, dude, if they do at the Coliseum, just imagine what they could do there.

You might be right. That might be the one because Dana's talked about that a lot. And I wonder, now you bring it up, I wonder if the people who run that, whatever Italian, you know, organization, the government whoever runs that. I can't help but wonder if they see what they did at the White House and say, you know what, let's lower our asking price and get them to put on a show.

Because it's all about tourism. If they do a show there, people are going to flock to the Coliseum. You might be right. Now that you say that, I'm like, you know what? You might be right because that White House car was so well produced. They might be like, you know what? Half price. Come to the Coliseum.

Or even if they kept the same ridiculous price. Like, he has a lot more money now available, right? And, you know, they claim that they lost this money on the White House, which maybe they technically did. But, right, it pays dividends in the end, right? And they might see the same at the Coliseum. They're like, but we got to one up ourselves. Like, we can't, you know, we got to defend the belt, right? Yeah.

We got to keep, you know, fighting new champions. Imagine you put Aspinall gone at the Coliseum and the Comain is like Islam versus Morales or something. Well, it's got to be illia. Ilya's got to be in that. Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah, you do. Ilya versus Patty is like the co-main or something like that. Oh, yeah, there you go.

I mean. And you're in Europe and you get to Europe because Patty's going to bring people from Europe too. So you get a big European card with those two and you get Aspinol as the champion. Cyril Gons from France. We may have just booked the Coliseum card, Matt. Dude, I mean, how many people does that even see? I have no idea. I don't even know either.

I don't know. I don't seem like a lot, you know, when they were, you know, the Gladiator days. but it was like, you know, they were like crammed together like sardines and, you know, everybody was like smaller back then and, you know, they're probably starving and, you know, didn't care and, you know, and I think it's outdoors too, right? They have a roof on it. So. It does.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of issues they got to deal with there. But, you know, that's, that was my best guess, man. Look at that. We're talking about that car. Aspinall gone and Ilya Patty.

My God. I mean, that would be. Yeah. You got a fucking. And that's biggest card of 20, 27. Yeah. Dude, now that you're saying it, and I'm thinking about it, and I'm like, you know what?

You might not be wrong about that. It might be outdoors, but I think there's a way they can pull it off. That could be really cool. So, yeah, you might be right about that. The only other thing that I could think, because I can't think of anything in America, but the only other thing I could think would be,

and I just, I don't see it, would be like a Tokyo Superdome type thing. Yeah. You know, but like, could they sell out the Superdome? don't know. You know what I mean? Like Japan just isn't the same as it was back then. Like a New Year's, you know, like they did like in pride back in the day. You know, maybe if they worked out a deal with the broadcaster over there, that's like, but I think that's like a distant hope. You know, maybe they'd come out and give a tribute to pride and they'd have all, they'd have the lady on the

mic and have all the fighters walk out at the beginning like they did. And I think that'd be cool shit but yeah that's like a it's like a pipe dream I think I mean even if they don't do it in Japan I think it would be cool for the UFC to do a New Year's card because I used to love that was like that was like my tradition stay up all night watch pride fights on New Year's Eve just not

the same now I'm not knocking rise in but it's just not the same now like you know what I mean like but back in the day dude like it was like stay up all night and watch freaking fights on New Year's Eve even if they don't do in Japan like UFC doing a big card on New Year's Eve would be cool yeah absolutely yeah

I just keep thinking like they're going to do something in a different country somewhere and do something gigantic somewhere else. Yeah. Because America, it's like you did the White House. Like you can't one up that. There's no, there is no one up to the White House. You did the fucking White House. I mean, like I already said, like the biggest arena, the biggest sports arena is Madison Square Garden.

They do that every year. You know what other sports arena are they going to do is that iconic? Football stadiums are bigger. Yeah, but I mean, like they go to Allegiance Stadium. but they already did Terrence Crawford and Canello there. Like it's not the same level of special. You know, it's just like we're going to do a big fight at Legion Stadium. Cool.

I went to Toronto when they did GSP Jake Shields. I was at that call, which was 50,000 people or whatever. It was cool. It was weird. Now, is it possible? I don't think this is, you know, what they'd be announced or anything. But is it possible? Sometime in the future, they do a crossover or a double event, Zufa boxing and UFC.

And then, hell, they might even. throw fucking WWE in there or something you know what I mean but but you know like having I don't know who you know Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury fight on the same night as Aspenol gone in the same arena yeah I mean I know

Dana's always like gotta keep them separate but come on now like the amount of tickets you can sell something like that the amount of paper views or whatever and maybe they do it like in England if they do like a big like you know Wimbly or whatever it is like the big where they do the giant events over there imagine you could do Aspinall gone there with Fury and

Joshua? Holy shit. That's what I'm saying. Like, you don't have to keep them separate. Everybody says, I'm sure he's going to say keep it separate until, you know, the fucking zero's on the end of the paycheck start showing. I was like, okay, that whole separate thing, I think we can get past that now. And I think, I mean, you know, Danny said, he said never have women's MMA either, right?

Yeah. Here we are. Here we are with all these shitty women fights on every car now. Yeah, oh God, no more, please. Yeah, I mean, you don't know. And like I said, I think we're at a point now, like, you know, 20 years ago, you know, people were still referring to UFC as human cock fighting. Now, like, you could argue UFC is a bigger overall sport than boxing, you know, outside

the big fights, you know, so that really, really big-name fights. Totally is it. People know, they're not confused. You know what I mean? There's no confusion. Like Tyson Fury is doing MMA. No, he's not. He's boxing.

We know he's boxing. So I think you could do that event. And, like I said, if he's doing England, man, that would be huge. Think about how huge that could be, you know what I mean? So I don't know. I like the Coliseum idea. Patty, Ilya, Tepora,

Aspidol gone. That's going to be my call, but we'll see. I like it. I like it. All right, we're going to get out of here. Obviously, I want to give people a chance. You know, obviously always support you, Matt, whatever else you got going on.

So where can people find you what you got going on outside of this podcast? The Immortal Matt Brown on Facebook, at EmoryM. And the Immortal on Instagram and Twitter. And the Immortal. podcast. There you go. And as always I always want to say a big thank you to everyone that tunes in the show. We'll be back, or make sure you check us out on all your favorite podcast platforms, Apple Podcast, Spotify.

And of course, over in the best website in the world, MMAfighting.com. For Matt Brown, I am Damon Martin. We'll see you guys next week for another edition of the Fire versus the writer. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you then.