Hacked, Scammed, and Impersonated Online. Here's How to Protect Yourself
00:0090% of the people still like, yeah, you use the same password or have the same variation.Hackers can literally take the same password that's like breach and do 10,000 variations, like a couple minutes.If Bob sled has been your password since freshman year of high school, and then you started Bob sled one,Bob sled one, two, three, and you're just doing different variations.They can run variations of it and get into your account.Caitlin Sarian, better known to millions as Cybersecurity Girl, has spent her entire career figuring out the world of online safety.And today she joins Money Rehab to tell us how to protect ourselves against the craziestfinancial scams out there right now.
00:32We in the cybersecurity industry, unfortunately,call it pig butchering, which I hate becausewe're basically referring to people as pigs.The reason why it's called that is because you kind offatten the pig up for a really long period of time.You kind of give them little things to make thembuild your trust and then you slaughter them and you takethem for all they have. The safe word
00:47every family needs right now. Let's say your daughteris 14. She calls and she's freaking out.I would ask for a safe word and if shedoesn't give you a safe word, you know that's not her.Any tips around what that safe wordshould be? It should just be likean extremely random, weird word that like no one would ever guess.And the one way to pay that can actually get your money back.
01:06Credit cards are a lot better at getting your money back than anything else.And if anyone's asking for like cryptocurrency or a weird way like Venmo, it's a little bit of a red flag.And honestly, the only way to defend themselves is to...And Nicole Lapton, the only financial expert you don't need a dictionary to understand.It's time for some money rehab.and Sarian, welcome to money rehab. Thank you for having me. So excited. I'm so excited for so many reasons tohave you here. Also, please take a look at this text that I just received. Oh, no. Okay. Do you want me to read it outloud? Please. The toll roads notice of toll evasion. Oh, bad girl. You have an unpaid toll bill on your
01:55account to avoid late fees. You need to pay within 12 hours or the late fees will be increased and reported tothe DMV. And then gives you this sketchy link and then says, please reply why. Then you,exit the SMS and open it again to activate the link. Seems totally legit. I mean, this is theand it's, oh, the best part, it's from a, I don't even know how to, Bissuit, Butte 43 at hotmail.com.Yeah. That seems like the toll road authority of America. Yeah. I will say when the toll scams first came out,it was like two years ago and I was just visiting my parents back here in L.A. And I got thistext and I was like, and this is before everyone started talking about it. I was like, mom, did I go through?like, is there like a new toll road in L.A.?
02:36Like I also don't, fun fact, I don't drive in Miami.So I'm like, just happened to be like the perfect timing.I did not fall for it, by the way.But I like had to ask my mom because it looked like a kind of wasn't from a sketchy thing either.But I was like, I don't think I went through a toll.But like maybe there's a new toll.And she's like, no, you have a toll pass and there's no toll.Anyways, but yes, this is not legit.
02:57So fun, should we go through right?Why it's not legit.Yeah.But the thing is it's not legit.But it takes you a minute to realize that.it's not legit. Yeah. And it took you a minute when they first came out. Oh yeah. I had to ask my mom.And it was like scams hit you at the perfect time. Like when you people fall for a scam,like I kind of knew, but like I was in a rush or I wasn't thinking it was convenient and it like kind of made sense.
03:20And that's what happens. Yeah, when it's in the context of like a scams podcast, you totally get it.But when you see it and it catches you off guard, you're like, oh my God, did I make this charge?Or did I go through a toll or did I buy something on Walmart.com? Yeah. Or Amazon or.Target, all the stuff.Yeah, I mean, it's very, like, you always have to ask.But the people that rush, you're like, oh, my gosh, I need to pay this toll.I can't get reported to the DMV.And then they do it.
03:44And then it's too late.So set me straight.Is this the scariest time that we're going through because of AI when it comes to scams?Okay.Well, I think that's like a loaded question because obviously it wasn't around before.But, I mean, scams, yes.because it's like we're in a technology raceand we're continuing to be in this technology race
04:08and we're advancing so fastthat people can't keep up.And I think it's the scariest timebut I'm also a little biased.But I just think with all the upcoming techand all the new AI,it's a lot easier to make a scam.It's a lot like the scams look and seem more realistic.
04:24The fact that you're constantly sharing where you aremakes you a lot easier of a target.So like all this kind of morphs into likethe scam environment is like very rampantand it's continuing because it keeps working.I mean, we're money rehab, money news network.We obviously care about people not losing their money.Right.
04:41And AI has spoofed and cloned voices.And I want to get into all of it like never before.So even though so much as AI doesn't mean that it's all nefarious.What's the best way to determine whether it's nefarious or not?For AI or for like scams in general, like text messages or...So most of the stuff that we're getting,in DMs or texts is AI generated.Correct.
05:06Whenever I get any messages like on Instagram or LinkedIn or like, you know,look at any posts, I kind of try to look for the language, right?I think anyone that uses AI can tell there's like a very specific type of AI language.In fact, LinkedIn has the new AI slop tool that I'm like obsessed with,which you don't know, LinkedIn just released a new feature that you can tagif something seems like AI slop, which just means that like you just quickly generatedsomething on AI and threw it on as like a post when it's really like not original oryou're like your idea. So I think for me, I don't, and I take a very cautious standpoint, I don't
05:39trust pretty much anyone in my DMs at all. I only trust someone that I can double verify.And, and that means like, okay, if they sent me a DM and then they sent my like management andemail or they went through my website and then they sent me a DM saying, hey, we went to your websiteand like, we're doing this. And then we still have like our own tools on the back end to just makesure that it's not extra scammy. Like what? So it's not like actual tools,We just do our due diligence with the people, right?Like if my manager needs to reach out to, like, say, for example, we went on your podcast.If she needed to reach out to, like, you or someone on your team, like, if your team, I don't
06:14know who emailed us, but like if your team emailed us, she's going to do her researchon the team first before she starts emailing back.And we also just never click on any links ever in an email.Like not even like, oh, just schedule your time here to book it.No, no links.So there could be a world where a fake Nicole and a fake money rehab,money rehab podcast.That's probably already, yes.
06:40Like if you look at any big podcasters like Mel Robbins and like yourself,there are people that are pretending to be you and like asking people to join theirpodcasts and they're like all, it's all nefarious.And then what happens?They're trying to get access to your meta.So this for like a lot of up and coming like small businesses,they like email as you or Mel or whoever.else and they're like, hey, like, we love what you're doing, like, schedule time with us.
07:04We're going to like, we want you to be on this podcast. They make a whole thing of it.Then you jump on like a prep call and like during your prep call, they have like walk you throughsteps to like get access to your meta business suite. They're like, oh, we need this accessso we can like live stream on your Facebook too and they're getting access to meta business suites.No. Yeah. And that's actually like a huge scam right now. And then they're trying to get into yourmeta so that they can either pay themselves out, whatever it is. They're like, take over your accountand then use your account to scam other people. And this is under the premise that you're going to beon some big podcast. Yeah. What the hell? Yeah. Yeah. This is a whole other worry that I now need to
07:46have in my life. Yeah. You have to like verify people like all the time or just ignore the messages.I don't know. I don't read a lot of my messages besides my manager, my manager's emails. Well, there have been people and we'vegone to war with this who have impersonated me on TikTok and on Instagram and slid intoDMs and look very similar and they steal all, they scrape all of our posts, they scrape myphoto. And then I started understanding what was going on this year really. Like it became much morerampant around the financial influencers. And so people would just text me on the side like, hey,I just want to make sure that you're running this trading platform. And I'm like, what? And then somebody thatwas, you know, at one of the big social media companies, he's like, hey, I just, just, you know,
08:33you can always like text me and not DM me. And I'm like, DM you from what? Like, I didn't.And they were like, they fell for that. Yeah. And so somebody's been, or multiple people impersonatingme and all the things that we do to try and get people onto fake trading platforms. What is thatscam all about and what's going on? There's a few reasons why people have scams, right? It's like either to getmoney or to use your account to, like, boost their credibility and then ultimately get more moneyor scam other people for other things, like getting personal info, et cetera. They can, whether they'regoing to lead people on trading platforms or romance scams, like all that stuff is ultimately just formoney at the end of the day. I don't know why it keeps happening. I do know why. They're going to continue
09:18to get money. And it works. I mean, what really pisses me off to you, and I think the financial servicescompanies and institutions are failing us because once we send a Zelle or something, they're like,sorry, sucks to suck, sucks to be you, there's nothing we can do. Why is that? So banks, I know itseems like they're like not doing it, but they like meet like a lot together. Surprisingly. So I,I volunteer a lot with like the Aspen Institute. And they always have, they've been trying to fightscams forever. They like come together every quarterish or maybe every,every half a year. And they're trying to figure out, like, how to fight against scams, frauds,et cetera. From a Zell perspective, it's really hard to get your money back because, like,
10:03then the banks are going to be out of luck and you're the one that's, like, actively doing that,right? What I always tell people is, like, try to use a credit card wherever possible because theycan, they can take back the money. Credit cards are a lot better at getting your money backthan anything else. And if anyone's asking for, like, cryptocurrency or like a weird way,like Venmo or whatever it is, it's a little bit of a red flag.It's just hard for banks to get the money back, especially if it's like going from one bank to another.Like scams just don't go.Yeah.
10:30It's the wire fraud is insane.Scams just don't go from like your bank to one bank.It goes to like a million kind of pings back and forth.And so it's just hard for banks to kind of keep up.And honestly, the only way to defend themselves is to educate people on how to be safe.And so, you know, they have their own versions of education, which I've been very much advocating for.It's like outdated and old.Let's go at it together.
10:55There was some bank that was like super proud that they put like something on a bus.And I was like that's not where the people are.They're not, no one's reading like the side of a bus.But like, kudos.I don't know.Try again.Thank you for trying.Like, let's do social media, but they're very old school.
11:14So, I mean, they are trying.They do.I mean, if you have gotten emails from banks, which at this point I feel like everyone ignores because you don't know if it's a real email or not.But banks do send out like alerts.and like reminders and, you know, we're never going to send you a text message saying X, Y, Z.Like, also, if you ever have a question, just contact the number on the back of your bank card.Okay, that's really important on the back of your bank card because there's this whole otherscam that I want to get into where you Google something or you search for a number and you
11:42call it and it's the wrong number.Yeah.So.Which is crazy because, like, how do you not fall for that?Because, well, yeah, it's hard because you go to Google and like the AI summary likeYeah. summarizes, oh, like, it's probably this number. But just know that AI scrapes the openinternet and it can be manipulated. So like an easy way to show how AI can be manipulated is thisguy on LinkedIn wrote like, I'm the number one LinkedIn influencer in the world. Thank you guys
12:08so much for this, you know, this honor. And then like three or four days later, I think, and maybe,but maybe a month later, he Googled or he like went on AI and was like, who's the most, like,biggest LinkedIn creator? And it pulled his name up and referenced his LinkedIn post.Like some random dude.Yeah, some random dude.Just to show that, like, AI can be manipulated.And so if scammers are like, you know, starting to put in like all these fake websites and saying like, this is the number to call and you call it.My dad actually got fell for that too.
12:38There was a whole internet outage.And he was trying to contact, I think, a spectrum.And he Googled like the spectrum number.And it was like the thing that came up at the top was not the number called.He ended up paying like $20.But then we're like, cancel your credit card.And he noticed after it was like super late at night.It was like our family vacation home.
12:55And it was just like the internet wasn't working.There's no service without internet there.So he was like, I have to get it up and running.Otherwise, I have no service until tomorrow morning.So yeah, people are.What's the scam?So he called the fake spectrum number.Yeah, it's all for money.
13:07So they called the fake spectrum number.Oh, in order to diagnose it, you have to pay $20.Like it's standard $20.But once you pay, it will fix it.But then you're also giving their credit card number.So it's like it's money and more.And then you have to get them.credit card. So the scam is really like they're injecting the wrong numbers into different websites.
13:27And then obviously AI scraping all these websites and is trying to pull what it thinks is the mostaccurate website or the most legit. And sometimes it pulls the AI. Not nefariously, but just becausescammers are good at putting so much of that information out there. Yeah.Damn. Okay. I mean, it is kind of nefarious. They like doing it for a purpose.Like they build the fake website and everything for a purpose to get money.So the takeaway from that is don't trust the AI summary.I would never trust any AI summary, first of all.And I also wouldn't click on any of the links in the AI summary.
14:04And I wouldn't call any of the numbers in AI summary.Even when it's on Google?Yes.I trust Google.Yes.Even when it's on Google.Okay.So now I'm really scared about the podcast scam.
14:15Thanks, Caitlin.More questions on that to come.But the one that, like, terrifying.me in my soul as a brand new mom. And granted she cannot speak yet. She's 19 months old.Congrats, by the way. Thank you. Thank you. But the AI voice clone scam like terrifies me because I know allof this stuff and I talk about it too. But I can't imagine like getting a phone call from my daughtercrying, needing something, being in an emergency. And for me to be like, oh, hold on. I got to hang up and I got toyou back. Right. But that's what's going on. Yeah. How much of somebody's voice do scammers need to clone it to make it really sound like it's your kid or family member? You're not going to like this answer. It's about three seconds. Three seconds and they say you can make like a short clip. Obviously you're not going to like make like a feature film, but you can make like a short clip of it. A lot of people have public profile, so it's pretty easy to get that clip. A lot of times people also have a phone number and they have personalized voicemail or you answer your
15:19phone and people are talking to you for more than three seconds and they're getting a clip of your voicethere. Obviously, we're public figures. So they're going to easily get any clip of our voice from anypart of a podcast or social media, et cetera. The best thing to do is, one, is don't answer unknownnumbers at all. Like, I would never. But can't they spoof it so that it looks like your actual numberis calling you? Yes. Yeah. But that's like a lot more of a complicated thing. So I wouldn't answerunknown numbers. And then I'd have a family safe word. So it's. So it'seven if it is spoofed, right?Like, let's say your daughter is 14.
15:53And she calls and she's, like, freaking out.Ask for her a safe word.And if she doesn't give you a safe word,you know that's not her.But even if she does give you a safe word,I always might hang up and, like,try to contact them on another platform.Like, if she has a social media,
16:08like try to DM them,try to contact her on WhatsAppversus, like, a text message.Like, figure out another way to contact that individual.Because let's say, for example, too,like, it might not be your daughter, right?They might also just be like a friend.Like, you wouldn't have a safe word.
16:22So in that case, I would always say like contact through a different platform.But for families, safe word is like the best way to prevent it.Ellie Miller was on the pod.She's the best.She's the best.And she was like, it's crazy, but most people do fruits.And I thought, and our first iteration of our family safe word was a fruit.Really?
16:43It's so weird.Maybe my family's unhealthy.Is it a food or a fruit?She said fruits.specifically. My family is like super unhealthy. And I think our first like thought was like a food thatwe all love to eat. But it was, it's definitely not a fruit. I think it's because we're unhealthy.But that's interesting. Any tips around what that safe word should be? It should just be likean extremely random weird word that like no one would ever guess. Like it shouldn't be like money or
17:09whatever that is. I don't know. Yeah. Anything that's associated with you. Like it shouldn't be like any like oldpassword like your old address or whatever it is. Just something.unique. And nothing like those bank verification questions either, because I know that you don'tanswer those honestly. No. I know in theory I shouldn't, but I feel like I hate lying. So I alwaysforget my lies anyways. I just don't. Yeah. You can save them in your password manager.I don't know if you have a password manager. But like sometimes when I like have my,um, log in for a bank, if I have like a weird or interesting security question that I made likean interesting, because I don't like answering the standard like your high school mascot and stuff.
17:48That is so easily guessable.Like, not guessable.Like, you literally can go through my Facebook and find where I went to high school andmy mascot's right there.So, like, if I don't have the option of like a unique or like a more different questionand I go with like the standard ones, like high school mascot, it's not going to be mysame one.So what I do sometimes is like in the password manager in a note section, I'll put like
18:10what it is.It doesn't even have to make sense.Somebody gave me the type of one to actually say orange, which is a fruit.I don't know why now.and out on like anti-fruits forBob sled or something.I was trying to think of like the weirdest word.Yeah, but like to use that word
18:24for whatever the question is.So like your mother's made a namebe like bobsled.Yeah.Yeah.You can use whatever you want.They don't know.But should you use like your own version of that?
18:34Like you're not answering the question.You're just using.Doesn't matter.Special word.Yeah.And then keep that in the...I keep mine if it's very different in the passwords app.So I have a standard set
18:47that's like all different, right?Like there's like four questions that I usually use that are all like,okay, if it's my high school mascot is, I don't know,I'm not going to say my real one anyways, a bobsled.A bobsled.I'm going to say like, I don't know, Javalin or something.We're just going for sports here today.And then like, but I'll use the standard like I'll now always use Javlin as my high school
19:11mascot unless I feel like it.Yeah, I've re-answered it with different.I just don't want anything that can be found.on open source, like internet, which is like, because, yeah, it's going to be a lot harder.Even if I've redone it, no one's going to know the new ones.So never use your mother's real maiden name.I wouldn't say never, but I mean, just know that it's like, if someone really wanted toget into your stuff, they can get in with your real stuff.
19:36I have a lot of feelings about the mother's made a name thing because now I feel likethat's the only part of my last name that will continue through my daughter.Yeah.I was like, thank you so much.I've used Lappin for my whole life.And now it will just be her security question on the internet.But now it's not even going to be that.It could be.
19:57Maybe it will get better.I don't know.What else should you keep in mind for the AI voice clone scams?Because I think in theory, like having this conversation in a vacuum or in a bubble, you're like, oh, duh, of course I would just do the thing.But like when you're panicking, it's so hard to go to those steps that you,know in theory you should do. Yeah, there are two things to look for when someone's calling you and itseems a little off. The first is urgency. Like, you have to do this now. You have to like leave your house now andgo send crypto. And then this, which also crypto is another red flag. Well, we can get into that.
20:31And the second thing is like, oh, you don't need to tell anyone. Don't tell whatever. Like, I've had a friendthat had that call had like a similar like, oh, this is the FBI. You didn't pay this. Like, we're going tocome and arrest you. And she's like, I need to talk to my husband. And like, don't talk to your husband.and like you have to just go now and pay crypto.So if they're telling you not to tell people and if it's like super urgent,like very much likely a scam.And then the other thing is like if it's like crypto or like gift cards or like weird Venmostuff, no like random scammers, send me Venmo or no random like normal person is going to send that.
21:06Obviously a random scammer will say that.So I think those are, there's really three.It's like what method are you actually paying them?and then like if it's urgent and if they're telling you to like keep it to yourself.I mean, what really pisses me off is that all of these scams are targeted toward the elderly.Like there is such a special place in hell for these scammers who specifically target the elderly.Well, it's interesting because kids are getting scammed all the time and it may not necessarily be from a monetary perspective.It may just to get into their account.
21:36So they have like a valid account and they can message other people.Like there's also like besides money, there's like sex sourcion which still involves money.that's like rampant with kids right now.We just don't talk about it because most of the money that's being lost is from the elderlybecause they have the money to give.You know, like if a kid got a call and they were like, oh, you have to send thousands of dollars.They'd like, I don't have a thousand dollars.So interesting. Yeah.
22:00So, I mean, with extortion scams, that's like a whole other thing.I always get so sad talking about it.But there's still money involved in that too.It's like you either send more pictures of yourself like without anything or you pay usor we're going to like release the photos.I mean, I did a money crime show and I talked to a mother whose child killed himselfovernight, like got sex torted.And I mean, it's gut wrenching.
22:25It's awful.And so I think we always talk about elderly and also the elderly is terrible because they'relike losing their entire life savings.A lot of the elderly are like long con scams.We in the cybersecurity industry, unfortunately, call it pig butchering, which I hate becausewe're basically referring to like people.as pigs. But what, what, the reason why it's called that is because you kind of fatten the pig upfor a really long period of time. You kind of give them little like things to make them build your
22:52trust and then you like slaughter them and you take them for all they have. So there's a lot of romancescams like that. There's a lot of like investment scams like that and we can go through that.But a lot of times they're like, oh, they'll use like a valid person's account. They'll say,hey, give us money. We have this like crazy deal. Like I'm only letting you do it. Like only letting youinvest in this. It's probably what honestly what they're doing even with the,the trading platforms. And they'll even give you money back. Like your first investment, you'll get yourmoney back. You'll be like, oh my gosh, this is great. Then you put more money in. And that's when they getyou because you'll start putting more and more money. And they're like, oh, just keep putting more.
23:26It's up. It's up. It's up. And then they just disappear. So I think even like the long con scams,like we can talk about AI scams for days. Is that really likely to happen in the near future?Probably not. What's happening right now are the normal scams, like those toll scams, likethe romance scams, the long con, like investment scams, that's what's happening constantlyevery single day. And you just need to have conversations with your family about it, like your parents,not even like elderly. Like my parents could get suckered into these types of scams. I mean,you think that you're investing. So you feel special. Someone with a verified account might bereaching out to you or something like that. You're investing, you put, you know, I'm going to try
24:05$50. You get $100 back. You're like, wow, this is great. Put another whatever, put another, however much.and then you just lose all your money.And people just don't realize because they just want to inherently trust and believe that people are good.And which is great, we want a world like that.We don't want, like, cynical people that, like, don't trust anything.But if we start talking about these scams more often, more people will recognize it unless people will get scammed.My girlfriend's mother, who was close to retirement, lost everything in this long pig-wittering scam,where somebody friended her and was talking for months and months and gaining trust.
24:41So this can happen on a dating app. It can happen on LinkedIn. Basically, somebody who'sconnecting with you, having lots and lots of conversations before any of the seven first start.Yeah. Yeah. And people don't meet either in person. Like there's a few for romance scam,specifically, there are a few things to look out for. One is like if it's like too good to be true.The other is if they never want to meet with you. And then if they obviously if they start asking formoney, like those are huge red flags. And if you know someone that's like involved, like I woulddefinitely take their phone or like ask them to, for them to,send pictures of the person they're talking to, and like reverse image search these people to try
25:16to find their actual profiles. Because do you know what's crazy is like most of these scammersuse like famous, like well-known people. Like there's some people that think they're talking to like,I don't know, some name of celebrity, Chris Hemsworth, Bobby Cooper, whatever, which obviously I wouldlove for them to be talking to them. That's great. Or like Elon Musk. They've, they've owned,you know, investment advice from Elon or something like that. Yeah. And so what I would do isFor some reason, I don't know why this gamers do this, but let's hope that they keep doing it.They take, like, pretty well-known people and they'll just, like, make profiles of them and, like, older people, maybe not celebrities, but, like, you know, Instagram, famous people.And if you just go through, like, a reverse image search online, you could probably find their account pretty easily and, like, try to contact them separately to show that it's, like, a mismatch.
26:00If they're not trying to impersonate.Yeah.But what if they send you, like, the wrong photo?What do you mean?Like, if they're...Wait, say it again.Okay. So if you're trying to, like, if you, I had a friend that her mom was just recentlystarted to date again. And she was on the apps. And she was talking to this guy a lot for like a month. And
26:19he started asking for money. And she was like, her mom, she's very close to her mom. Her mom told her. And she'slike, no, no, no. My friend told me about this. Like, can I have a picture of him? And so she gave all thepictures on the dating apps to me and to her. And we just like quickly did like an AI or like a Googlereverse image search. So what you do is like you upload a photo of them. And it willshow you where they found that image or similar images. And usually it just goes to like anInstagram profile or a Facebook page. And then you go to that profile and you specifically messageup person like, are you talking to blank? I see. And they're like, I don't know who that is.But this is how really smart, even financially literate people do fall for this. Yes. I mean,
27:01my girlfriend's mother who lost millions of dollars in this pig butchering scam was a doctorwas about to retire, like had her entire nest egg already set up. So it's not just like praying onpeople who. No. It's praying on everyone. Literally everyone. Like you are not. And the people that are like,I'm never going to get scammed. You're like, it's already going to like, whatever. It's not that big of a deal. I'm like,no. Like, just start being more mindful. Dude, if your parents, like, and they know everything from youfell for giving $20 to spectrum, like nobody's safe. Yeah. I know. He was so, he was so,after. I was like, dad, you're showing your age. He's like, stop it. I'm like, it's okay.So once the pig gets fattened, I do hate this analogy. It sucks. I just call it a long con.
27:50Long con. So like once you're starting to trust the person on the other side, you know,then somehow they bring up an investing thing. Yeah. Or like, oh, hey, I just, you know,I think that you could, you know, double your money just like I did or something like that.pressure or something like that, then what ends up happening, they do this mirroring technique,too, for investment accounts. What does that look like? So then what they usually do is like,if you invest a little bit, then they give you back double or whatever they're saying. Like,so let's say, for example, they're like, oh, you're going to double your money in a month.And then, you know, you're like, oh, I'm just going to put in a little bit. So I'll put in, like,
28:32let's just see if this like works, right? I'll put in a thousand dollars. They'll send you back2000 the next month just to like gain your trust. And then it's like that's when things start goingoff the rails because like, wow, you just made an extra grand. I'm going to double my money.I'm going to add. I'm going to put more in. I trust this person. Let's just go all in.And then you'll slowly do it over time and they'll continue to make excuses as to why you can'tpull it out over time. But they're like, oh, but you should make more money. Like right now you can'tpull it out because of this is happening or X, Y, Z. But like they'll start convincing you,oh, but you really should put more in because.
29:06right now is the best time to, I don't know, like they're just going to start continuing to try topull more and more money. And what they usually do is like use that to scam other people. So like themore money that you're putting in, then they're like doubling the other person's first investmentand getting more. It's a huge Ponzi scheme. So they also in some cases will ask for like a verificationtax or an AML clearance fee apparently. So they'll charge you to take more of your money.Yeah. Yeah. They do this a lot.with a fake employment too.They're like, oh, you're employed.
29:39But by the way, like, we actually need you to pay us money so we can get your accountverified.And then we'll pay you back to the money that you gave us on your first paycheck.And I'm like, you're getting like hired, but they're asking you to pay money.Like, that's a huge red flag.Same with like the AML like trust.Like if you actually have a institution, you shouldn't be paying someone to like verifywho you are.
30:01So.No legitimate exchange on planet Earth is going to charge you.to verify yourself. No, never. And so with this mirror dashboards that they set up for investmentaccounts, are those real apps or just the dashboards that are showing like up into the rightfake profits? I'm, well, I think it kind of depends on like which one. I'm sure there's like a milliondifferent ones out there. With AI, you can make an app very, very fast. You can make a dashboardwith whatever you wanted to say really fast. So I don't think they're real in terms of likeis it actually tracking an account with money in it? No. But I think they're probably giving you,
30:41like, you know, a little dashboard that they made on AI that they probably said, hey,make this dashboard and every day have it, you know, increase by $500 on the chart,XYZ. I think it's very easy to make an AI generated kind of platform to convince people thattheir investments are going up. And then once they get a certain amount of money, they just,what, you'll never hear from them. You'll never hear from again.And is there any recourse?You can report it.The issue is that if you report, so IC3.gov is like a great place to report it.
31:14It's like the FBI can get involved.And I highly, highly, highly recommend even if it's like, you know, months later to still report it because it's usually a kind of similar scamming groups that are doing it.So the more information the FBI has, the more they can build a case on these groups and try to find out who they are and hopefully prevent them in the future.sometimes they say if you get it within like 24 hours,like my dad noticed like right after he sent the $20 and he like immediately calledthis bank and was like, okay, got to cancel my credit card, all that stuff.The FBI does say like sometimes they're able within a certain amount of time to help you get it back,but I would still report it.
31:51So there's really nothing that you can do, but I would still report it and try to likeget the money back.And also I know people are so embarrassed of this.They really need to start sharing what's happened to them because it's,allowing for other people to get scammed with the same situation.Because if you're embarrassed, you don't say anything.You never out of sight, out of mind.Like, it sucks.
32:12It's terrible.And you are, yeah, most people are just embarrassed.But if you don't share, other people are going to get scammed the same way.Yeah.Smart people are like, I will never happen to me.And it does.There's so much shame and so much guilt around that.Yeah.
32:26I was on a radio show yesterday.And someone finally admitted, we were talking about scams for like two hours.And someone finally admitted, like, I did that.I had to, like, call Apple.and get my computer, like, because she, like, clicked on, like, a sketchy link.And I'm like, girl, why didn't you say that from beginning?She's like, I'm just so ashamed.I was like, no, this is a problem.
32:40Like, you shouldn't be ashamed.Like, everyone is falling for scams, whether you recognize it at the beginning or not.And you have to share this because, like, your share could help, like, literally your immediatefamily members, your friends.Like, you could be protecting so many people because people need to start realizing it happensto everyone.It's not like a, oh, it's in the future.That's never going to happen to me or they don't, like, no one cares about me.
33:02A lot of people like, no one cares about me.why would they choose me? If you're an easy target, they're going to choose you. I always say,would a burglar rather burglarize a house that's unlocked or locked? Like, if you're going to justleave it unlocked because you're like, oh, why would they choose me? I would choose you if I were aburglar. I know if you share your story, it helps pretty much everyone in your, like, circle.And you should not be ashamed or embarrassed. You should actually not be proud, but like,you should feel proud that you're making the right choice of sharing because you're, you shouldfeel proud that you're protecting other people. So they start recognizing and opening their
33:31that this like could happen to them. Okay. So I'll come clean. Okay. I fell for a scam. It was years ago,but I got texted a verification code and I was just moving so fast. And I got another text that was like,send me the verification code for something. And I was like, oh, here, here, somebody needs thisverification code. And they got into everything. Like my entire digital life, they got into myGmail. And then from there, they got into like my backup. Yeah, because your Gmail is like yourauthenticator for a lot of things. Like your emails, you're authenticated for.for a lot of things. It was one of the scariest moments of my life. I felt like there was a robberin my digital house and I could not get back in. Last year, I don't actually think I've talked
34:13about this, but I lost my home in the LA fires. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you. So many people gotfrauded or targeted around that because a lot of us were giving out our personal informationto FEMA and SBA. Another. They've helped so much, right? There's another. There's anotherspecial place in hell for people who are targeting like victims of natural disasters. And so I'd beenhearing from the community that a lot of people were being targeted. And I got an alert from LifeLock.Shout out LifeLock. I saw that they were like, your information is being used on this bank to open up anaccount. And I was like, what the hell? Yeah. And I tried to call them. They wouldn't give me anyinformation. Then they got into my Experian because I didn't lock that. You can lock different
35:06credit bureaus through LifeLock, but that was the one that you have to do through snail mail.Yeah. And I never got around to that. Yeah. And then you know. Or you can just call them by the way.The Experian? Yeah. No, I tried. I was on the hold for hours and hours. And I will say this. Like I have greatprivilege that we have an amazing platform that's about money. And so we sent a note to the head ofmarketing experience and like magically somebody called me. And I fully get that that is noteverybody's experience by any stretch of the imagination. But hopefully using that as a moment toshow that it can happen to literally anybody. Yeah. I think I've gotten scamp,but not like a click thing. Like I actually trusted a friend and my friend told me that this guy was
35:55legit. And we like invested. It was during COVID. We had like invested in like gloves and masks.Like it was like it supposed to be a shipment coming over from China that we were because we were all likerunning out of gloves and masks. Turns out this guy was a scammer. But I like only,I later went through my friend. So like even if like your like people don't realize like thechain reaction like it has. Because like if you're like, oh, this is like if your account was like,you know, breach and they're messaging from you. And then like it's like a friend of a friendthey're like, oh, wait, like, we're going through you.Like, it's super legit.
36:25They're like, just give us your money and we'll do it for you.And, like, we all got, like, he obviously, my friend got scam too.But there was like a group of five of us that like put money into like buy this like palette of stuff coming over.And we all like, we just lost our money.But we, I reported just to the FBI never got the money back.But RIP, just do your due diligence on anything that you're putting any money into is really the moral of the story.And it's really great.So even an ad sales partner of ours got scammed for close to 100 grand, I think,
36:56because somebody went through a long con of spoofing the other media company that was supposed to pay them.And they made a very, very similar email address.That happens a lot for companies.Explain what to do and what to look for because it was so intricate.Like they could tell everybody's name and it looked the same as every other email that came fromthis specific company, but one letter or something was off.So a lot of times like, yeah, so a lot of times people will make like a similar email and likeone or two letters will be off. They'll send like a similar invoice. Like so they let's just say
37:35they got into an email from a company, right? Like a big company that like is sending invoicesto let's say your company. Then if they're into that, they can see everything that's going inand out of that email. And instead of like using that email, they're going to go out of it.make a similar one, send you new invoice being like, hey, this is a new email. Also, like,here's the invoice from last year or like last month. And they'll change like one or two digits on it.And then that money will now start going to the new account. And it will just be wired constantlywhenever they send a new invoice every month. And a lot of people just like don't know. Especiallyif it's under the radar, like after like under a certain amount, like every company has different
38:11thresholds. But if it's under the certain threshold, like you won't even know until like hundredsthousands of dollars are gone. How do they have so much background on that specific company?Yeah, I think either they've hacked into someone's email because someone reuse their password,which happens literally like every time I get on any podcast or I'm in a group setting,I would say 90% of people still like, yeah, you use the same password or like I have the samevariation or like I added a one. But yeah, it's the same password. By the way, passwords like,hackers can literally take like the same password that's like breach and do like 10,000 variation.in like a couple minutes, meaning like, let's just say, we're going to go back to bobsled.
38:50If bobsled has been your password since freshman year of high school, and then you startedbobsled one, two, three, bobsled one, two, three, exclamation point. And you're just like doingdifferent variations. But bobsled was the password that was breached. You're like, oh, no, but thatwas an old password. I don't need it anymore. Well, if you still use like that same bobsled part ofthe password, they can run variations of it and get into your account too. So I think whatusually happens is they get into people's accounts at the company and just like are monitoring.Like a lot of times people don't realize there's probably someone in your account already if you'vebeen reusing and doing stuff and they're just sitting and trying to figure out what they can do with
39:27it. So they're scanning. They're trying to understand everything about this invoice process,who they're emailing every time, how they use it. I mean, now you can use AI to scan the inbox too,make very similar messages, similar invoices and just have it start sending to the wrong thing.But this is a huge problem.for businesses, small businesses in particular.What can you do?Because the partner that we worked with that this happened to, the bank could not help at all.No, because you're sending it to a legit account.
39:56Yeah.So what you do as a small business, if anyone asks you to change the payments, you call them.You contact them.Get on the phone.So you do not want to use the signature in the email, like where it says like your nameand your phone number.Go and call them directly to like the number that you originally had and say like,hey, I just got this email looks the same.
40:14They're asking me to change the invoice number.I just wanted to confirm, like, that's you.And then what I would also do, I'd like double confirm on a separate email.Like, if you have another email for them, if you have like a WhatsApp, even if you have, I don'tknow if you have social media for them, I would just confirm as many ways as possible to theoriginal person that you had the contract with.That's really the only way you can do it.It's so annoying.
40:34It's very annoying.You just have to be more mindful and vigilant that this, like, things are going to happen.There are bad things out there.there are bad people out there, just kind of cover your bases.I mean, lately I've been getting requests to do verification calls to.And I'm just like, oh, this is annoying.But I know it's important.Yeah.
40:49But I'll just call the billing department or I'll call whatever.Or, you know, when you're sending a wire, they're like, did you verbally talk to this person?I'm like, yeah.Yeah.Well, that's the thing is like, that's like bank's way of trying to help this situation.I know.But it's like when your dentist is like, are you flossing and you're like, yeah.Yeah.
41:07Doesn't it look like it?I mean, here's the thing.I will come for, you know, Dave Ramsey for many, many reasons about why you should be a debitdevotee versus using a credit card. But in this case, it is so important to have that.I will never use debit. I do not understand why anyone uses debit. Maybe you can enlighten me,but there's like no reason. Like you're not getting points. You're not getting any credit.There's nothing. There's like you get nothing. And you, if you use debit, you don't get your money back.If there was a scam, it's just weird.
41:40I've never used to debit.I mean, use it responsibly, obviously.It's much easier to, you know, get out of control and have compound interest, kick yourass if you're using.But I pay my credit cards in full every month.Totally.And that is awesome.And that's the goal.
41:56Yeah.Maybe that's why.I keep forgetting.Like sometimes I'm like, yeah, doesn't everyone?And I'm like, oh, no one.No one pays it in full.No.And, you know, and I think that that protection, though, is really important.
42:06And it should be a bigger part of the conversation.The other one that's coming from banks is that their fraud department, right, calls you and they tell you that you need to move your money into a safe account to protect some suspicious activity.Yeah. That happens a lot. So there's a lot of people that are getting reporting that their banks are calling saying, and they come with like receipts basically like, oh, did you spend $500 at this store? And also like here's the first, you know, eight of your social security number.can you confirm the last? They actually like know a lot about you because a lot of what you aboutyou is like on public information. I do not know how they find out, to be honest, I don't know how they findout what your last purchase was. So that like makes it seem legit. It's not just like a call thatlooks like it's coming from your being. Like they always tell you like, oh, you last purchase this andyou're like, yeah, actually I did. And then they'll confirm some number, but they won't ever have the
43:01full number. They're like, ask you to give the full number. And you're like, why are you calling toconfirm with me? Like I remember when I got a call. Like,out like maybe three years ago. I was like, this is weird. Like, why are you calling to confirmmy number? You're the one calling me telling me that something's wrong. Like, you don't have toconfirm. Like, you know this is my number. For me, when that happened, I literally just was like,okay, I'll call you back. And I hung up and I called the number on the back of my credit card.First of all, I know this is crazy. I really do not answer the phone, even from banks.Even it says it's coming from my bank. If I get a call saying it's coming from my bank,
43:34I will literally go to my credit card and go on the back of my bank card. I'll call them.and say, hey, I just, I think I got a call from you, but I wanted to like just make sure that it was from you. And I'll ask. And if it's from them, they're like, oh, yeah, you did X, we needed to call you. You need to confirm X, Y, Z. Great. If not, then I'm like, oh, then it was a scam. I didn't miss anything. So I never, I literally never answer phone calls. I don't know. Even if it says it's coming from the bank. But then when you hang up with Amex, like, damn it, but then I have to call back and I'm going to be put on hold and I'm going to be transferred to five different departments.That or I'm going to get suckered into a scam.So the bank calls you and says,somebody's trying to get into your account,verify your entire credit card number orSocial Security number. But usually they have most of your Social Security. And they dousually have most of your credit card number. But don't they ask you to verify
44:23that anyway? Yeah, they ask you to verify it anyways.In legit calls. Yeah.Like when you're actually being fraud.But do they, do they call you and ask that?I don't think so. They don'tyou for your social security. They don't call you and ask. It's only when you call them.I see. So like if they're calling you, they already know that they're calling you because that's thenumber that they have on file. You know what I mean? Like every time they've called me, they're not like,
44:48hey, is this Caitlin confirm everything? They're like, hey, Caitlin, like, you have to do whatever.I guess when I get like a wire verification, then I have to give them some information. Now I feellike that might be suspicious too. Yeah, but the wire verification they call you and it's likeyou're literally like live, like doing that right then and there. It's not like two days later.I see. I see. Okay. So this the scam now, the latest one is you made a couple of purchases.Your account is at risk. Right. Take all of your money and put it now in some special safe account so that the bad people, of which they are the bad people, will not get to it.Right. And it's them. Right. Shocker. So how do you protect yourself? I guess.Again, if they're calling, first of all, I don't answer. But I know that's not like a lot of people want to answer their phone. That's fine. If they're calling and they say that, I would hang up the phone and call the number on the back of the card and confirm just like, hey, I got this really weird call, said it was coming from you. I don't know if it was even coming from you. They're saying I have to move my money. Is this true? There's a new one that says we'll send you a code to verify that it's you. Yeah, because they want your authenticator code to get into your account. But I feel like this happens.
46:05I call Gusto, which is our payments platform.And they're like, okay, we'll send you a code to verify that it's you.Yeah, but you're on the phone with them.But you're on the phone with the bad people, too.Yeah, but Gusto didn't call you to verify that you're you when you do that.You called gusto.Yeah.Okay, so always be the initiator.
46:24Yes.No matter what.Yes.Okay, so should we role play?Yeah, sure.But here's the thing, like ring, ring, ring.Caitlin's not answering my ball.Voice mail.
46:34We love a good roll play of money rehab.I can answer and pretend to be like a normal person.You want me to answer and pretend to be a normal person?So, okay.Ring, ring, ring.Hello, I shouldn't be answering, but I'm answering anyways.Caitlin, this is your bank.We've just received some suspicious activity that is concerning us.
46:54We're thinking that your account could be targeted for fraud.We need to quickly act to protect your money.What bank are you calling from?I'm calling from your bank and I can even verify the national branch and I can even verify the last two purchases.Did you spend 2539 on Uber Eats recently?I did, but I'm actually going to call my bank now just to confirm that.It's real.Time is of the essence.
47:22Yeah.I'll call right now.Thanks so much.I have your card number and the last four of your social.I have my card number too.I'll call my bank back.Okay.Well, I hope that your money is.
47:33want want and also like most banks if i if it's ever real like if i call them and they say somethingweird i'm like i this is weird can i call you back they're like yeah sure like they actuallyappreciate you calling them back whereas like scammers are going to be like no no no stay on the phonewe have to do this now so basically just don't answer unknown numbers even if it's from your bankyeah if it looks like it's from your bank because then if it's if it's calling from me like i literallyimmediately go to the back of my card and I call.Okay. And I say, I just got a missed call from you. I don't ever answer calls. I don't know.I just want to confirm like everything. It's okay. Then they tell me yes or no.
48:14They catch you in the middle of the day. And like, who has time for that? You're like,I'm on the middle of a Zoom call. I do see like if Amex is calling or somebody like I see Schwab.I'm like, oh, is everything okay with my account? Good. I got to go by. I just feel like I'm, I don't know.I have a big target on my back. So I'm like, I don't want to ever get in a position where I feel like,I got it.Like react.And like I don't think people realize like scammers are so, so, so good at like hijacking your brain to like doing something like reactive.Like that's the whole point of a scam.
48:44It has nothing to do with whether you're smart or not.Has everything to do with like, did they catch you at the right place at the right time?And are you going to react?And I don't trust myself.I'm like sleep deprived half the time.I'm like flying around the world.Probably you're sleep deprived with your baby.Like there is no way I would like in my right mind be able to like.
49:02combat a really good scam. So I'd rather just not pick up the phone. It's like I don't buyunhealthy groceries because I know I'm going to eat at all when I get home. Like if I buy afamily size bag of chips, even if it's on sale, I will eat the entire bag of chips in one sittingby myself. So I have to buy smaller bags. Yeah, it's almond butter tub for me. Yeah.I get it. Yeah. Like protect yourself from yourself. Yeah. In your weakest moment.Yeah. You do have a big target on your back. So do you. Fun fact. So do I. Yeah.I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of people out there being like, oh, if I could just get the cyber girl.Yeah, I know. I'm like, yeah, probably.
49:41But don't dare them. I feel like that's bad.No, I love the hackers. They're so smart. They're great. Leave me alone.That's right. Always thank your AI.Thank you guys so much for giving me a job.All right. Let's do real or scam. You get a $500 Zell from a stranger and a message.So sorry. Sent that by accident.it, please send it back, but keep $50 for your trouble.So this is a very much a scam.
50:07This is like happening a lot.It's like a Venmo scam.So what people do is they log in to people's Venmo's or they use a stolen creditcard and they send you money.But since a credit card is stolen, eventually when that person finds out, they'll getthe money back, but you will never get the money back that you've beenmoed the person back.Does that make sense?Because it's your own money that you're giving.
50:28Whereas the person that sent you money is it's coming from a stolen credit card.So it's going to get canceled.It's going to get canceled.So you'll get money into your account for a little bit, but it will go away eventually.What's crazy is that during COVID, I was renting some random place.And, you know, it was weird times.And the person asked me to Venmo the deposit.And I actually did send it by accident to the wrong number.
50:51And the person did send me the money back.Oh, wow.It was actually quite lovely.That's great.I mean, maybe if you're like, call them or I don't know, like contact them.Like, I really did mess up.Like, please feel free to call me.But that's crazy.
51:05I've never heard that.Otherwise, they're just using.Yeah.Fraudulent cards.Hot money in some way.Yeah.It's like hot stolen money that they're using to send you money.And then when you send your own money back,
51:19you're out of the 50 bucks.You're out of the 50 bucks because that money is hot money.It's getting taken back from you anyways.Okay.How about earn $30 per task?Just liking videos from home.Small refund.deposit to unlock the higher paying tier. Well, the fact that there's a deposit is immediately a red flag,
51:36so it's a scam. But this is like this classic task job scam that's going out. Yeah.Because people are like, oh, yeah, cool. I can like videos and make quick easy money.So let's let's go through this. There's no such thing as quick easy money. Can we establish that onmoney? We're trying. Literally we do that. We try to do it every day. There is no such thing as fast, easy money.boring, slow, steady money.Yeah.I know everybody like the red flag.If it's fast, easy money.
52:05The easiest, quickest way to make money to double your money is to fold it in half.That's like this old dad joke.I love that.I love that.The dad finance joke that I have is my grandpa's and he always said like with the stockmarkets.He's like, you know, it's like a waltz.Some days you're stepping forward.
52:20Some days you're stepping backwards.But eventually you make it around the dance floor.So that's my, my grandpa joke.But yeah, fast, easy money.No such.There's literally no such thing.Unless you like somehow win the lottery and even.And then it's like, your chances are 0.0.01%.
52:34Although there's what, you can win like a million dollars in the billion dollars in the lottery right now.Fun fact.I don't know.We should do it.We after this.Easy money.That's the thing.Like, even us, even us talking about it, there is some lore to like, but maybe just maybe.
52:51Just my one chance.I could do it.No.And also you should never have to give money to earn money.Okay.What about a quick voice?note that sounds exactly like your boss or your company's finance person, grab five,$500 gift cards for a client.
53:08I'll reimburse you today.No.Gift card scams is huge, weirdly.But what if it's from your boss?It's not from your boss.It looks like it's from your boss.What I would do is like if you have like a team slack, like a teams or a Slack, I wouldmessage them on there and be like, hey, did you just ask me to buy gift cards?
53:25But that's a huge red flag.All right.from Facebook Marketplace, send a Zell deposit to hold an apartment before somebody else grabs it.No, but I know a lot of people actually do that. It's kind of hard because like that could,in my head, everything's a scam, but that could be legit. I would always say like don't sendany money to people that you've ever met in person. Number one, that's like a good rule.And if you've seen the place, I don't know, it just depends. But I would say that's a scam.Right. Yes, it is. I mean, I know it's a scam, but the thing is like,
54:00living in L.A. and stuff. I know that, I know that friends have done that. For sure.Yeah. And it's been legit. And it's legit. Yeah. So that's why I'm like, I know that for the purposeof this game is a scam, but like I know that some people have done that.Zell, we should mention, just has no buyer protection. Right. So that's always.And Venmo. Does Venmo have buyer protection? I don't think should. Yeah. Can you tell them?I'll try. I'll do my best. Okay. Congrats. You're approved. Confirm your social security number andbank login to release your funds. Yeah, it's a no.The no for me, dog.
54:32No real lender.Needs your bank.Log in or your full Social Security number to release money.All right.How about this one?You get like free MSG, free message, colon, chase fraud alert.Did you use your card ending in 1, 2, 3,4 for $3.9.99 at Walmart.com.Reply yes or no.
54:52Actually, that's correct.Yes.I was like, I get this all the time.And I'm like, bitch, this is my credit card to have the money.Let me buy it.Yes.Yes. So legit bank fraud alerts will only ask you to reply yes or no to a specific charge. They never text you a link or send you a code or anything.Unless you requested the code to like log in. Okay. How about Apple? Your Apple account was just used to sign into a new device near Denver, Colorado. If this is you, you can ignore the message.
55:22I mean, that's legit. And then I would log into my Apple account and like remove and then re-update my password.So which of these is fooling people most right now?Oh, no. I mean, all of them literally, I like, every time you said something, I'm like,oh, that's like a legit thing. I think the Venmo scam a lot of people are falling for becauseit like makes sense. Like people are getting money into their account and asking to send it out.At least like when I make videos like that one goes the most viral. To be honest, all these are likereally like legit like legit scams that are happening 24-7 like all the time. Right now,someone's getting scam from a fake bank or Dell or Venmo or whatever it is. And again,
56:05it's just like it's starting to be more vigilant and understanding the signs of a scam,which is like urgency and not allowing you to talk to people and, you know, sending money.And honestly, at the end of the day, it's that gut feeling. It's like you secretly know something'soff, but you're like in a rush or it's convenient or whatever. And then you're just like,oh, just do it. Just don't. Like whenever I say that, like hear that, hear that,gut feeling. I always like, take a step back. There's a nonprofit called take nine. And it's basicallylike they've proven that if you take nine seconds before doing, clicking, whatever, that takingyourself out of that equation for nine seconds really helps you start allowing and seeing what's real and
56:43what's not and what's right and wrong. So I always say like take a step back, maybe take nine seconds.And if you're still like this seriously looks legit, sometimes I screenshot it and I'll send it to like afriend. I'm like, I don't know if I'm just tired or out of my mind. Like even you. Yeah. I mean,I haven't done it for a while. But I tell my parents that all the time. I'm like, if something seemsoff, just text it to me. I will respond. You'll be okay. Like, nothing's ever going to be urgent.So, yeah. I always have like a, like get a buddy that you can send stuff to and be like, hey, is this weird?Or is it just me? Okay. Take nine seconds. Get a accountability buddy. Yeah. Urgency. Here's the other,I mean, set up a family safe word. Yes. That's not a fruit. The thing that worries me is this, you know, because two-factor
57:27there's now sim swapping, right? So scammers are hijacking your phone number and then suddenlythe text message codes that are protecting you in your bank and your brokerage go to them.You can actually lock down your SIM with your, if you have, like whatever carrier you have,you can call them and say, I want to lock this down. So no one will be able to move it.And then unless you unlock it, it's kind of like freezing your credit, right?Unless you unlock it, it won't be able to sim swap you.So I would lock down your SIM so they don't.And then also with two-factor authentication, first of all, I want to say Bravo to everyone that
58:01hasn't turned on. Hopefully everyone does. But if you do have the option, what I always suggest peopleto do is use an authenticator app because then they can't sim swap you. It's not going to your textmessage or you're stuck on your phone. It's going to an app that's on your local device.So with sim swapping, it doesn't matter because you have to have your physical device as anauthenticator app. Okay. Asking for a friend, let's say you run a business and you love totwo-factor authentication, but all of the codes come to you. Yeah, I do the same thing. I have to send it out.So what's what's the answer? Because that's not sustainable. Is it a Google voice thing or is itauthenticator app for the entire team? Because I just feel like it's a whole other job for me to send
58:44codes to people on my team that need the code. So usually for accounts, if there's a way that you can add likea team member to it, so they have a different login and they have their own login, their ownauthenticator. That's what I do. I think there was, I don't remember which app it was that like I'munable to do that. And I literally just have to send a code. But it like lasts for like a week for themto be logged into. I know. It's not ideal. There needs to be like a better solution, I feel like forwell, they do have like team accounts. Like if you're like, okay, I'm adding team members. They are moreexpensive. Which is not fair. It's it's really not. I just had to like pay a subscription for somethingthis morning. I'm like, oh, thanks.
59:24So, but the enterpriseversion of it, while it's more expensive, it's probablymore secure if everybody can have their owndedication process. Yeah.What about LifeLock and all of the companiesthat are charging you to monitor?So I have like pretty much every monitoring company,I have like pretty much all the deletion service companies.
59:46I'm like, more than Mary at this point.Which ones do you like? Which ones are not worth it?a lot of them like the deletion service companies i use incogni personally but there's a lot of deletion servicecompanies i used delete me yeah delete me but there's a lot that like white label the same product and thenthey just slap their name on it um delete me and incogni are not them but there's a few othercompanies that like started completely different and then they were b2c and they're like oh we realizethat the deletion services are making more money so we're going to white label a product and put our name on itand then sell that too so besides delete me and incogni and like maybe two other
01:00:23ones. Most of the ones that are selling deletion services are just like the same product with a differentname. And honestly, they are, they're all pretty great. I use incogni only because it's internationaland I lived in London for two years. And like I partner with them because I, I just love working withthem. But I, so I love that. I love Incogni's deletion service. I think like Norton, Lifelock isgreat. My thing is like, I freeze my credit. Like, I don't know how else, like, what else they'rereally doing besides like monitoring accounts. But like, I never get.get any notifications from them because you can't start.So I want to, let me just talk about freezing credit for a second because I think a lot of
01:00:59people get confused with what it is.You can still use your credit cards.You still have a normal life.You just can't open up a credit card or account when your credit is frozen.So if you're trying to get a mortgage, if you're trying to get a new credit card,you can't do it when your credit is frozen.But that prevents identity theft.And so for me, I'm like, I've opened the credit cards.
01:01:17I need open right now.I'm locking these down for the next couple of years because I'm not in like, I'm not goingcreate any new accounts anytime soon. So. And if you do need to apply for a mortgage and you unfreeze,yeah, and then you rephrase. Yeah. It's very, it doesn't take that long. Although, yeah,I think experience is like, I think I had the same issue. It was very experienced. It was veryexperienced. It was very annoying. But for me, I'm like, I don't really get any crazy alertsbecause I don't, there's nothing. I can't have anyone take my identity or like try to,because identity stuff is all about creating accounts in your name and pretending to be you.
01:01:51They can't create any accounts to my name because my credit is for us.Okay. You know what big kick I'm on right now? Oh, what? Let's hear it. I think we should team up on this, actually.Okay. It's like my big passion project right now. You know, whose credit I also froze?Whose? Your kids? My one year. A grandma's. Yeah. So I always tell people to freeze your, like,grandparents' credit because there should never, like, the issue with kids and grandparents is like,you're never checking your credit. Right. Yeah, you're like, I have a one-year-old. Like,she's not doing anything. But that's like a scammer's wet dream. It is.For sure, their biggest wet dream member.
01:02:25They are very excited because you will never know that they've created accounts in their name.And by the time they hit 18 and you want to actually open it or maybe like 15 want to open credit cards for them, their credit will be completely shot.But it's clean right now.Like a baby, a child's is a clean report.Yeah.Like just a beautiful social security number.Yeah.Fresh baby social security number that smells like a baby.
01:02:49And that smells like catnip to a scammer.Yeah. So that's so good that you locked it down. I also tell like elderly, for your elderly parents,like you're the ones most people, like my mom, like they're the ones that are in charge of like the money,the credit cards for their parents. Like they should not be opening up any credit cards in their name at this point.So I always, and then also with a two factor authentication, I actually have it. I always tell people like for yourgrandparents like have it go to your mom or dad or confusing when you say that. But like have it to go to someoneelse because why would your like grandparents be getting into like accounts and stuff like I think for my for myparents they pay for all their parents like credit cards and everything else like my grandpa should have
01:03:30shouldn't have any access to any of the money that they have anymore because we're just they're in theirown little protective bubble um so I would just like move authenticated apps over to you personallyif you're like in charge of like your elderly parent and freeze their credit but also do that foryour kids too it's so smart yeah you're a step of headThank you. I'm trying. But I really like want to get this message out. Yeah. There's so much fraud that happens to kids and people don't detect it because they're not checking. Yeah. Kids credit. You would have no reason to. Yeah. Yeah. And what's a good budget for all of these apps that help you monitor? I think it's like your risk tolerance, right? Like if you're like, it doesn't matter. I would, I personally, because I'm like, I would much rather be protected than not. I personally, I think incognies like 1.60 a year or something.thing. So like that's my budget. All the other stuff, I think, I don't know, how much is NortonLifeLock? You know, I feel like it's around 300. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I think it's also different,like normal. It tells me like every day that something's on the dark web. By the way,
01:04:36Caitlin, where is the dark web? Okay. So the dark web, it's kind of like the cloud, right? So thedark web is literally just a browser. It's just like a different browser that no one has. It'sliterally just like a website browser thing. It's not anything crazy.I don't go on it. I'm scared.And what happens in there?It's like an unlocked browser. I don't know. Bad guys get up to no good.And they like trade stuff and they like basically they say, oh, we have, you know, this wholedata set and we're going to sell it for this or we have this. It's a lot of like,
01:05:07think of it like an eBay, but like with bad things being sold and bought. Most of it is like your information.But so much of it is already on the dark web. So like when you get these alerts that it's on thedark web, when is it really bad that you have to do something about it? And when is it just like,duh, everything's on the dark web. There's so much on the dark web right now, like you said.For me personally, like whenever I hear about a data breach, I specifically go to that account.I change that password. Hopefully it's a unique password. And then I also, if you don't havemulti-factor onto that account, definitely do it. And if you reuse that password on other accounts,change those passwords too. Freeze your credit. That's really all you can do.
01:05:46Is there any recourse against these companies?Like all these data breaches?Well, there is.I mean, they have to like pay a fine.So a lot of, depending on what information was breached, there's either a fine involvedor they have to like help.They have to pay for you monitoring credit.And usually you get an email, but I don't know if I think it's either an email or like
01:06:05a physical letter in the mail with whatever address that you gave them.And you'll get in the physical letter from them saying like, hey, there was a data breach.This is a data that that like was leaked.on this day, we are going to let you, we'll give you a year of free credit monitoring.But there's not like a class action.Sometimes there is.Okay.Yeah.
01:06:25I mean, like, I think Equifax Experian or something, one of the two had to, I think it wasexperienced, I don't know, had like big data breaches.I mean, there's a lot of big data breaches and there are huge class action lawsuitsand you can like sign up for them and get money.But is there class action fraud?I don't think so.Is there?Maybe there will be now that you say it like that.
01:06:47Let's not put that into the world.We're not putting it out in the universe.So, Caitlin, as you know, we end all of our episodes for asking our guests for a finaltip that listeners can take straight to the bank.We talked about so much.Thank you for enlightening us around specifically how to protect your money.What's something that we might have missed?Okay.
01:07:04We talked about so many good things, so I'm not going to repeat it.But the one thing that we missed is to update your software.So like old bank apps or whatever, like you want to make sure that they're constantly up to date.A lot of people don't realize that like when up,updates come out, they're like fixing bugs in the software, which means that hackers are alreadyable to get in. So you just want to make sure that your software is always set to auto update.And like your operating system. Yeah, operating system and your apps. So you can like go on your phoneright now and set to auto update. And then when you download the app, you can set it to auto update too.
01:07:37Yeah. But we went through so many good things. Now I'm scared. No, you have enough to empower you.You feel better about it.You froze your credit. You froze your daughter's credit. You're good. Just hang. Don't,don't answer random phone calls. Hang up if a bank calls and call them on their number. Have you have strongpasswords. Have a family safe word. Text me. Are we the buddies now? Okay. Okay. Yeah. I don't think you havemy real number, but I can give it to you if you want. Thank you.
There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click any sentence in the transcript to leave one.