No Such Thing As Going To Spoiler Prison
00:00Hey everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Fish, where today James Harkin is away,and we are joined by one of the juggernauts of British television.It is the writer-producer, Russell T. Davis.You'll know his work if you've watched any British television over the last 20-plus years,starting with Queer as Folk.He did It's a Sin, years and years, an amazing futuristic show,and of course, he was the head showrunner of the reboot of Doctor Who.Amazing character. We were so excited he was up for coming on the show, and he has a new book out, which is his autobiography.
00:36So if you have any interest in the world of TV, what it's like making it, what it's like going into productions and doing all the scripts, this is the book for you.Because it's not just his time in Doctor Who and all the other shows I mentioned.There's other things like Casanova, which we talk about in this episode.And it's out now. In fact, I saw a copy of it in a bookshop just this morning on my way in here.So go get yourself a copy.I hope you enjoy the show. It's a bit raunchy. The first fact, just a heads up if you've got kids with you listening. I should add as well, if you're a member of Clubfish, you're going to have an Excel version of this episode, and there's a lot more anecdotes from his life and TV in there. So if you want to get the full version of this show, go to patreon.com slash clubfish, and you can find that there. Otherwise, please enjoy the show and on with the podcast.Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hoburn.My name is Dan Shriver. I'm sitting here with Anna Tyshinsky, Andrew Hunter Murray, and Russell T. Davis.
01:49And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days.And in no particular order, here we go. Starting with fact number one, and that is Russell.Kassanova wrote his, it's called a memoir. It's a massive, massive automobile.Some pages of which are on pages watermarked with love hearts.There's a thing.Because he was such a romantic guy.Well, was he?Was he?
02:14Was he?I wrote a castanova television series starring David Tennant.Many years ago, 2003, 2004.2005.And I had to read all 12 volumes of that autobiography, which was long.Wow.Marvelously, it just came out on paperback.And the paperback version has a portrait of a naked lady along the spine.
02:34So you need all 12 volumes to get the lady.A bit like the Mr. Men.Well, you do that with like the MCU or something.Yeah, yeah, yeah.Spider-Man across all the spine.So for prudish people, they can take the boob volume out and be.Take volume seven and three out.Basically, I couldn't look upon them, obviously.
02:53And that's long, let me say.That's a long autobiography.Is it?I mean, I think the thing is about Casanova is that he's not that remarkable.He's remarkable because he wrote it down.Yes.Because he wrote his life down.It was quite a life.
03:06I've got to say, he was kind of, he never lived anyway, never settled.He just wandered all over Europe and so gave us great insights into so many different countries and places.But all the sexual law of the time, everyone was at it.Everyone was out.He's not the great lover.He's not everyone was having sex at the rate the Custanova.There's nuns, priests, everyone.And he just happened to write it down.
03:28I mean, because I read a review that was like, you know, by some counts, his sex count was up.to about 135 different women, somewhere between 120 and 135.And then this review said, which was a lot by standards of the day.And I was thinking, that's the fuck of a lot now, guys.But you're saying, you're saying everyone else is doing that.I don't think it was a lot by the standards of the day.I think literally everyone's at it.It's incredibly sexualized.
03:52It'd be amazing to really try and really portray what that was really like.Except that, also there's no age of consent.It would kind of be untransmits, but you'd have to show it on the dark side of the moon once.And that would be it to get the full story of what it was like.That count is not a high count.I've read Hollywood biographies where Warren Beatty, I remember he has a count that's in the thousands.I don't know how many thousands, but I do remember doing a calculation at the time.And I worked out that he had had more sex with different women than I'd had breakfasts.
04:22Not even hot breakfasts.At the same time.So can I ask about the paper with the love hearts on it?I read that they basically were largely unnoticedbecause they were watermarkedand in the hundreds of years since it was writtenit's slightly faded.So if you hold it up to the light,
04:38you can see these love hearts that are on it.I thought that this was like novelty paper,but I think they're not quite sureif he intentionally used that paper or not.I don't believe he chose that paperbecause they're not particularly romantic books.Yes.And he's not romantically swaggering through Europe
04:53and he's not.I mean, he will fall in love with a woman every other dayand then pledge his truthand then head off somewhere else.but it's not, it doesn't have hearts pulsating in it.I wouldn't have thought.Yes.I doubt that, I've got to say.
05:07I think towards the end he was, he lived a very, lived to 73 or something.It was a very long age for a man in those periods.Well, it keeps you young, doesn't it?I do.Exactly.He's the proof.And he was a librarian, a castle at the end of his life, really badly treated.He wasn't the man of legend then, as in most people aren't in their lives.
05:27And so I would have thought you'd grab him.any piece of paper you could use.I don't think he was rich enough to have chosen.I think he was just scribbling away.Yeah, yeah.And also he wasn't writing consciously something about love and women and sex.Although I do enjoy now that every review about him feels obliged to say there was so much more toCasanova than just the shagging.
05:48And when you read about him, it was still a lot of shagging.Whether or not some of you think that 135 isn't a high number, I'm going to say a lotof shagging and a lot of extreme shagging.We should actually cover.Extreme shagging.It's really like this.What's that?I would say, so one example of extreme shagging is shagging your daughter, I think we would agree.
06:08In his defence, it wasn't like he was a stay-at-home dad, so it's not like...You mean the legal shagging?I think you've mixed up your words there.You're all that my client was participating in extreme shagging, nothing further.Well, the spin is.And tell me if it seems sympathetic in the reading of the book.Basically, this was his daughter by a woman that he shagged, and she,really wanted to help out her own husband by getting pregnant
06:33because he, as all husbands were,was very keen for her to get pregnant with a son.And Kastanova, her loving father said,I'll help you out and impregnated her.Sorry, so he...Did he know that she was his daughter, though?Yep.Right.
06:47I've got to say, because I have read all 12 volumesand I read them diligently,and it's so constant and endless,I can't even remember that.You'd think that would be the standout moment in your memoir,wouldn't it?If that was any of us, like, wow, that chapter's amazing.Actually, it's constantly that, that it kind of wears you down.
07:04It didn't keep me young, kept me old.I was exhausted by the end of it.Can I present a theory?So this is a librarian at the end of his life, isn't he?And I knew him principally as a librarian.I'm a bit shocked to hear about all this stuff, to be honest.But as you say, it's unending.He loses his paternity at the age of 16 to two sisters,
07:22and then they all have some bread and cheese.He's so attractive, he's going everywhere.He's having these amazing adventures.Is there a chance this is an elderly librarian who's makingit up. I just wonder.Because it's so picaresque. I know hewas a real person because there are accounts ofhim meeting Catherine the Grey. I think it would be
07:38more entertaining. I think becauseactually it's kind of incestantand at the same time he'll tell you exactlyhow many crayfish he had that day.It's all of crayfish. It's crayfish mad.And I think he's got the most astonishing memory.Every bloody carriage he traveledin, every scent that he gave
07:54to a gatekeeper is in there. So Ithink when you sum it up, if you read the littleslim paperback version, then that'sexotic and marvellous and maybe made up.In the full length of it, it's constant and not sexyand not particularly masturbatory either.It would be better if it was.We'd have better fantasy than that.
08:11So I kind of believe it.The extraordinary thing is, I thought the same.I thought, come on, some of it can't be true.It's mad.But they have matched up everything they can match upevery single ferry train he took,every single hotel he stayed in, every, like, castle he entered.They have a record of him going there.
08:27One of the famous things about him that's not sexyis his amazing prison escape.And you read his account of that, and you think,it can't be true.You know, he chipped away at a piece of ironwith a bit of marble that he found,made a hole in his ceiling, got caught,so then communicated secretly, I think,
08:45with a friar elsewhere in the prison,hiding messages in books,convinced him to chip a hole in his ceiling.They broke out.They crept along the ceiling of a palace,fell through a window or whatever, or skylight.And then they're met by a security garden.Kassanova just says,
08:58I can't believe you've locked.me in here all night after last night's party.Let me out immediately.And the security guard believes him and he's let out.And all of that is just, I mean, that is the count of Monte Cristo style.But we know we've got the records of the prison escape.We've got the hole in the ceiling.And when you sum it up like that, it sounds a lot more entertaining that it does when you read it.
09:19You live through every chip in that roof.It goes on and on and on.He's not one for self-editing.That's incredible.I believe it.I do believe it.He sounds like a bore.Do you think he just bored women into submission?
09:31He sounds like actually he was quite tedious going on and on.They were all at it.Everyone was boring, everyone in both senses of the word.It was like, it was all going on.It was a highly sexualized world.Apparently he wasn't a very, he wasn't a bad character when it, I mean, who knows?But like, I read accounts of where he would sleep with a lot of sex workers and he would not sleep with certain prostitutes if they didn't speak his language.because he thought post-sex chat was really important.
10:01So who are you?I want to get to know you.To tell her to women.Yes, yes, yes, he did.That's why, when I did, I'm bringing it back to my version of Casanova,but I gave him a son on home all the legends and the bad legends and the bad reputation.He did it, were piled on top of.So that became the Castanova of legend.
10:17He actually was all right.Right.He was all right.He was just a man.Although he wasn't, I really wanted to like him, you know?I really wanted to find him a harmless, lovable rogue.I found his tone quite cruel.I found that he could be very callous with what he said about human beings.
10:34You know, there's someone who dies basically because of him.And he's like, you know, he thinks, oh, God, I wish I killed him, but I needed him to get out.So if you're out there thinking he was a gentle soul who you could have converted, I think he had a hardness to him.But I think that was the world.I think, oh, I'll kill him.He's got.He's dead.He's gone.
10:51I think.Yeah.Did they think and feel differently?Did they?And I think maybe they do?Yeah.Because he's never brought up for that.No one chastises him for that.
10:59He's never punished.He's punished for a million things.Like witchcraft and all sorts of blasphemy and stuff.But never for that.Never for lack of feeling.Is he in prison for sexual misdemeanor?He just messed people off, I think.There was a bit of black magic wasn't there or something they said.
11:13I think offending, yeah, religion and public morals.Oh, okay.They made up the black magic.Yeah, yeah.Because he's offended my morals with a thing with his daughter.So like, exactly.But a different world.Yeah, yeah.
11:25It wasn't then.You just don't like extreme.That's your cause.I guess what I have to ask my wife.Alright.Do you know the reason the memoirs came around is as a result of a prescription given to him by his doctor?So you know the old gag of Gramaldi going to see a doctor and he says you should cheer yourself up by seeing Gramaldi.Well, I am Gramaldi.
11:46Since his doctor said to him, you should try shagging Casimir.I won't show you up.But doctor...Yeah, no, it's not quite the parallel I was intending.He was seeing his doctor for depression.He was feeling melancholy and he said,do you know what you should do?You've had this amazing life.
12:00Go sit and write it and that's going to make you happy again.And he did and apparently he was laughing and laugh.He could be cheering himself up.And hence why it's probably so detailed and so long.He was fighting a depression.And he does only reach the age of 35 or something in the biography.And I'm kind of glad he died when he did.Or there would be 24 volumes.
12:19Well, apparently it stops on a final line.It doesn't conclude it.Mid-sentence.It's like drop down dead.Yeah, which is interesting.There's another story about him and a doctor, not the thing about him having depression and being told, right you remember, is this is when he meets a stranger.And the stranger says, thank you, Casanova, thank you.You saved me.
12:36You saved my career.Yeah.Casanova says, what do you mean?And this guy was a surgeon, and he spent years in poverty.He didn't get enough business at all.Then Casanova passed through town and gave so many people gonorrhea that this doctor's career, this doctor's career, which he's had a very busy year, and it completely saved his career.And he said, but of course it's died out now.And I don't suppose you could possibly see your way.
13:04And he didn't have it this time.So he wasn't able to oblige.Exceeding.Yeah, yeah.Yet what can I give them?Give my gonorrhea.Wow.I know.
13:15I kind of leapt into that autobiography,dying to write the moment where surely a man,that sexual and that sexualized would have sex with a man, never happened.Right.And I really thought it would.I really thought if you're that openand all the societies at it like they wereand no, no, no, no, no.
13:31I'll be proved wrong by some scholar and I probably skip some pages.No, no, no, but there is a bit with Bellino, isn't there?Yes.A male Castrato's singer with whom Casanova falls in love.And Casanova is astonish?Because he's, you know, he's, is it a ladies' man or a man's man's man?Yeah.It's the one he's convinced that he was never, ever attracted to men.
13:49And he became convinced that Bellino was actually a girl in disguise.Grope's Bellino, feels the sausage.Turns out it's a fake sausage.Bellino is a girl in disguise.Kastanova's reputation for being totally 1001% straight, unimpeached.Yeah.And it's a bit like a Shakespeare player as well.It's a fake sausage.
14:08It's a fallacy made of smooth guts around a piece of hide.Really?Lovely.Lovely.My dragon.At the same time, I can say.Well, it was so interesting about the story you were telling Anna about how we broke out of jailis that final line is such a great little plot twist.
14:23And in my head, I'm.I'm hearing it as Casanova, but I'm also hearing it as a Doctor Who.And I think that's because the only Casanova I know and have ever seen is David Tenney.But it does feel very Doctor Whoey in the kind of chaotic nature of an escape.And then they're being just such a simple, finely comic twist at the end.Were there previous ones?Imagine because the, you know, the 40s and 50s were a more straight-lays time.There wouldn't have been a kind of Basil Rathbone Casanova.
14:52Oh, Frank Finley did it in the 60s.And I think that was quite...I think it was like a Dennis Potter, Cassanova, I think.You look at it now, it looks very dark and very heavy.And I didn't watch much of it.I think it was much more of a treatise on male darkness by the look of it.Frank Finley is that?Yeah, Frank Finley.
15:09Yeah, yeah, yeah.That's interesting, because you had two Casanova's in there.You had David Tennant, but you also had Peter O'Toole.Did, yes.Which playing old Casanova, sort of telling the story.I love your meeting with him in the bowl.Just going to go.Yes, yes, yes, that's a great meeting.
15:24I was...How much could be.swear when this podcast. We'll bleep it, so do it. Okay. It's like me and the director was summoned toPeter O'Toole, like three days before filming, summoned to Peter O'Toole's suite in the MidlandHotel and he's there in full grandiosity going, you, you absolute fuckingc-cats. I'm like, whoa, hello? And there'd been some rewrites issued. You fuckingruined this. You fucking are you stupid? And it was, I've got to say it was more aimed.at her because, I think coming from a film background,
15:59he had no concept that writers existed.It was all about the director.And so I kind of didn't get the full buzz.Portrait, he got the full blast.And which I was kind of loving it.I mean, I feel like that's almost a perfect, Peter.It was like a Sunday morning or something,and I was being called a Bacch by Peter O'T.
16:14It's kind of what you want him to be like.It was just the one, and I loved it.But the part was also, we couldn't work out what was wrong,because we issued some rewrites and we're like harmless.These rewrites sort of said, I'll go to Venice instead of I'll go to Rome.And then I kind of realized he's in his 70s, he's learned it.Oh.And his head's gone to a complete panic.
16:37So I thought they went, how about if we take all these reruns and just get rid of them?Exactly.Fine, get out.I thought it was going to be that he had had the impression he was going to be playing young sexy Cassanova.He had only just clocked, can you imagine.I mean old decrepit librarian.What's talking about that?Oh, my God.
16:55That would be brilliant.Okay, that's the story I'll tell from now.That's a much better than it.Stop the podcast.Stop the podcast.Hi, everyone.Today we are sponsored by NordVPN.That's right, NordVPN, the all-in-one digital security app that gives you advanced protection when you're online.
17:16That's right.So, Dan, how do you protect yourself from the sun?The sun?I don't.I stay indoors.I have not been out for 27 years.Okay.And how do you protect yourself from your son?
17:28Ah, I do that.So you've got to go outside to get away from him, haven't you?Yeah, I'm in a real dilemma. It's the sun or the sun, and I lose either way.Okay. Final question. How do you protect yourself from online scams, Dan?NordVPN, of course, Anna.Of course. NordVPN's next-gen anti-virus, I assume you mean, that blocks scams and fishing before they reach you.It's a wonderful thing that you should have as part of your security system when online.It is upgrade your online protection.
17:58with an all-in-one security appby getting an exclusive NordVPN dealand four months extra,go to NordvPN.com slash fish.And that's risk-freebecause there's a 30-day money-back guarantee.Okay, do it now.On with the show.
18:13On with the show.Okay, it is time for fact number two.That is Andy.My fact is,anyone working on an American TV showneeds to know these colours in this order.White, blue.pink, yellow, green, golden rod, buff, salmon and cherry.
18:37That's not just American, that's British.Really?That's everywhere.Yes, it's in the same colours in Britain.Yes, yes, yes.Well, I think the order's that.Yes, yes, yes.I'm so glad to be here to correct you.
18:47Right.Dream come true.You fools.Should we just go by to episode one?Edit me into them all?I think you'll find.I love that.You're so annoying.
18:58No, but we have that.We have that.So this is, yeah, sorry.It's universal.Well, it's because actually it's, the software is kind of universal.There's one form of software that everyone uses.And it might as well be a monopoly because everyone works off it.And then once everyone works up, every office works off it.
19:13So therefore, if you're handing it in a script, do it in final draft.So they've got the whole thing digital.And just to explain for those outside the industry, because it's quite an interesting system.It's basically for script rewrites, right?So when you're on a TV set, things are constantly being rewritten.and tweaked. And I can totally imagineI've had this writing QI scripts as well because we nevercame up with this system where you have no idea which
19:35version is which and someone might be working up one version and someone might be threeversions ahead. So this is the order of the colours of scripts which tell youwhich version you're on.Every new colour is a revision.Yeah. And yet one of the colours is golden rod.A colour that no one has ever heard of.Is that golden?Yes. Why don't they just call it gold?
19:54Which the paper isn't really gold. It's just kind of orangey yellow.But it's, I don't know how.those names ever came about.No, weird.And the funny thing is, it's like, you have to go through those colors.If you change one word,then if you change another word,a day later, you've got to go up.
20:08Really?Because if you change a field to the tavern,it's as simple as one word.Meet you in the field.We haven't got a field.Meet you in the tavern.That goes to a pink page.And if the next day someone says to you,
20:18oh, we've changed location,the tavern's going back to a field,you can't go back into that pink because it's been issued.Then you go to blue, or whatever order it is,blue, pink, blah, blah.Really hope there was one revised version of Casano.where the pages came in,the only change is young Casanova,
20:32Peter wrote a tour.Exactly.And you go through so many changesthat by the time you,there's six or seven of them,by the time you've been through them all,then you go double blue,double pink,
20:42double golden,yeah, yeah, yeah.You can even get to triple.But everyone on a set is used to it.It genuinely works.On the front of the page of the script,it'll say what color you're on.So if you're all up to goldenrod that day,
20:54you know, it means if someone's working offthe blue page on that set,they're on the wrong one.Yeah, it's such a good system.That's where we get the phrase, I'm on the same page as you.That's where it comes right.There you go.It used to be I'm on the same colour page, but it just got shortened, isn't it?
21:10Can I ask Russell, have you ever been involved with either self-destructing scripts or fake scenes in order to prevent against the possibility of leaks?Oh, not.What's the self-destructing script?I think it's a digital version that they then delete off your iPad.Oh, right.It was the Avengers movies.It would be that it after a time.I was once approached right kind of Spider-Man spin-off for television.
21:37And the security process was so long, I gave up.I went, I'm not doing that.I can't bet.I genuinely went, I mean, I might not have ever got the job.But they wanted me to submit.It was related to Spider-Man in some way, the Spider-Family or something.Honestly, after sitting there were 20 minutes and still not getting through security,I just went, fuck this.
21:54I'm not going to do that.What do you mean, digital security?Yes, digital security.to get to read what they'd sent me.What they'd sent me was behind so many barriersand required so many emails and so many passwordsthat, and of course famously,never mind all those colours, they then print those scripts
22:09on red paper, so that can't be photocopied.Yeah, oh, okay, right.Can it?Yeah, apparently, they say.Christopher Nolan, I think, does the same kind of thingwith his films go.So this is very interesting.You have to have, sometimes you're not allowed
22:22to work email or a personal email.You have to have your own new email set upand then go through two layers oftwo-digit.I've never been there because I just went, life's two short.It just sounds crackers.Can't be bothered.Yeah.
22:34So I spoke to one of the writers on the show Succession.Oh yeah.And I asked, did you ever do things like fake scenes or fake plot lines or whatever it might be tothrow off people who were leaking?Yeah.And this writer said, no, absolutely not.The idea that we would have had the time or the capacity, we could barely do the main show,you know, because the deadlines were so fast and all this.
22:54But there was a really interesting thing.Sometimes the actors got a bit distressed.by the fact they didn't know what was coming nextbecause you might be writing an episodewhile you're filming the previous episodeI mean it's tight whenthey want 10 new episodes a year or whateverand this actually happened
23:10and I can't say who it wasbut there was a moment where the writersrealized one of the actorsin succession was getting earlyscript from somewhereand there was a leaker who was notleaking it to the publicbut there was some kind of internal black
23:26market within successionso that one particular performercould get the scripts very earlyand the writer looked through and sawoh my god, hang on,that's a script that I haven't finished yet.How do you have that?And some kind of system.
23:41Unclear.They had to sort of do a mole hunt thoughfor I think who I was leaking the scripts internally.It's like we face that on that last,on our last two suit as a doctor,absolutely every single thing,this is in the book.No way.
23:56But every little nicesurprise you put in, not just big parts, but every littlenuance, every little cameo,every little thing, you put in everythingleaked, and they have vast securitysystems at the BBC. Well, they actuallyfound the person who was leaking theinformation, but he was a member of the public.
24:13So, and youcan't actually go in and arrest a member of thepublic. I said, why can't we? If that's mycopyright, right? Yeah, actually, that'stheft in my eyes, but I don't think the BBC everlike to arrest a person fortheft, because the BBC's not going to come out ofthat very well, I think.
24:27Is that still burning in you slightlyto work out who it is?Because behind that, that person is obviously friendswith someone somewhere involved with Doctor Whowho was leaking every single thingand, you know, will I go to the graveand never know who it was?And it might be someone I stood next to every single day.
24:43Oh, my God.Or it's more likely to be someone sitting in an officewho might be on the desk at the backwhilst all the technical processesthese things go through.And whoever it was,it's probably sitting there masturbating furiouslyto this podcast.
24:57Have a nice time.We get a lot of that.Narrow it down.Narrow it down.But with a Dalek hat.Why?It's so confusing.Is it a deliberate thing?
25:10Is it just you accidentally got drunkand you told your friend everything?Oh, no.It's absolutely deliberate and consistent.And it's a power game.But I also think it's generally malicious.Because I think it does, I mean,it's not the most destructive thing in the world,
25:25but it's slightly destructive.And no program needs.anything slightly destructive, because then you're in a chain with that then, you know,that might transmit to just 20,000 Doctor Who fans. That's fine. But they've all had itspoiled. And also, you're going to look at the, when you get something spoiled, your reactionto it, it's got the word spoil in it for a reason. It's not an enhancer, is it? It's a spoiler.Yeah. I absolutely think it's theft. And that's why I'm surprised we don't go furtherwith it, except actually it's so widespread throughout all fandoms and all television shows that
25:57if you start to imprisonthese people who are leakingmy God the prison population would be in crisisyeahalthough fun on the wingsgreat conversationsspoiler prison would be good thougheveryone's in for spoiling a different show
26:12yeah amazing they're how creative that would beand then you just put a big sign on the buildingcalled BBCbut the one thing they don't say is what they're in forspoilersit's extreme I'll tell you that muchwe did a fact a long time agothe show Russell, which was about Dallas and the fact that who shot JR was the big question
26:32that dominated American society at that time, right? And they filmed every cast membershooting JR, so that they got, including the cameramen, including the catering staff. They all came inand had a guy with shooting him, so that that wouldn't leak. But yeah, but you never...And who was it?Oh, I don't know. Oh, I was Kirsten. Come on. Kirsten. How could you not know that?I was about thinking it was Maggie Simpson. I just remember fake scenes that I have written.Which are Doctor Who scenes, so your clickpaces will go mad.So bear me out.
27:02Which is that we were once told that the queen wanted to visit the set of Doctor Who.And that would be enormously prestigious for everyone.How marvellous.But she was only going to Swansea.So our head of drama, Julie Gardner, was told.And she was not allowed to tell anyone for security reasons, which kind of makes sense.And so the only person she could tell was me.So in the middle of a shoot, she said, you've got to invent a scene set in Swansea.
27:27In the middle of this episode,that we go to Swansea and shoot,and then it's like, oh, that's the Royal Visit that day.So then we can arrange that.But you can't tell anyone.So we couldn't tell the producer or the locations guy or stuff like that.So I suddenly issued this pink page with a scene where the TARDIS flight lands.And it has to be in.
27:47You know, no one could say, oh, let's shoot this in Cardiff.You know, so it's like it arrived on the Swansea seafront.In the middle of an adventure where the doctor's stepping over to him,there's the mumbles.It must be this.And the entire production team sitting there going,why have you done this?We can't afford this.
28:05The producer are going, we can't have a day in Swansea.And I was going, it's a really, really important.It's not important.They just walk out and he says that's about.And you literally were not allowed to say.It was on pain of death.And also I genuinely believe that would be very good publicity for the show.I thought it would do Doctor Who Good to have the Queen there.
28:25And then the Queen changed her plans.Oh, and then it just all never happened.Yes, you went to Cardiff that then.I was looking into screenwriting generally, both for TV and for movies,and I particularly like when requests get made by the production heads,and the screenwriter is asked to change the script in such a way that it just seems insane.One of the examples I found was there was a movie called Prick Up Your Ears,which is the story of Joe Orton,
28:52and it was written as a book by a journalist called John Larr,and then Alan Bennett got it and he did the screenplay of it.House, I'm just going to call on my Dan Bingo card that we've gotabsolutely everyone you're interested in into this anecdote.I love it.Well, Joe Orton was a gay British playwright.His partner, Kenneth Halliwell, murdered him with a hammer in their house.And it was a horrible story.
29:16They were very young.The notes that came back to Alan Bennett, he says in his introduction, is we love it.But could Joe Orton be American?And could he be a heterosexual?Ah, no way.Yeah.Oh my God.And what do you do when a note like that comes through, Russell?
29:31Do you just abandon shit?You just have to dig your heels in.I did get a note saying,well, we thought this woman was super strong,and we thought she was super clever.Why is she crying in the scene?And you see they're going,three pages earlier,
29:43her lover was shot dead in her arms.And you literally bang your head against the wall,just going, who there?Honestly, it's incredible.But in those situations, you just,You just dig in.You just sit there go, no, nothing's changing there.It's anti-feminist that you suggested a woman would cry.
30:01Yeah, it doesn't make a small as that.It doesn't make it sound like a girl boss anymore.Just on the madness of scripts and how up to the wire they can go,Tom Cruise had an episode in Days of Thunder in 1990,where they were rewriting the script so much up to the last minutethat he had to get in a car and do a car chase or something or drive a carjust after they changed the script, he hadn't memorized a line,so they taped his cue cards to the windscreen of the car.
30:31Now, I don't know how you don't see it in the filming,but so he could shout them out,which A, I find it's so weird that you're expecting an actorto act plausibly while reading off cue cards and driving,but he did indeed crash the car as a result.Yes. He's had two car crashes,because that led me on to another script that he did in 2004, 2005,collateral with Jamie Fox.
30:51Oh, good film.And it is a good film, and there's a car crash in that,and Jamie Fox was responsible for accidentally crashing the car in a stunt,and he said it was very funny because Jamie Fox wasn't that famous at the time,and Tom Cruise was Tom Cruise,and he said the crew and cars all just scrambled over Jamie Fox,kicking and exercising.You're right, Mr. Cruz, you're all right, poor guy, trampled on.
31:11I worked on that television program that blew up Anthea Turner, live on air.You know that?You know, the television presenter Andy Deli She was in a year.It's on every BBC safety film.Up to you.Up to you.we were so ahead of the daywhen was this
31:25like to 199092 93and Anthony Turnerlive from one of thoseair shows indoorsthey sat her on a pyrotechnicshe sat on a pyrotechnicdid that
31:36on a Saturday morning TVdid the link to cameraand probablyyou'll find it onlineso she's sitting thereand it explodes on hershe drops out of cameraand the careers
31:45that were ruinedafter thatbecause how did that happenwho said sit therethere was never a clear story toldbut oh my Godwhen it goes wrongit goes properly wrong
31:52I'm just like the thought of, no offense to Anthony, but the thought of Tom Cruise,like being, how much did that crew scramble?They must have ruck.The death's astonishing.That can happen.It's absolutely astonishing.It's amazing.Wow.
32:06Thank God it does for the stories.On death, there was a writer called Alvin Sargent, and he wrote four Spider-Man movies.So you might have worked with him had you gone through the security.But he always used to say, and he has passed away that on his tombstone, he would have loved to have read,finally, a plot.Wonderful.Wonderful.Lovely.
32:24That's a writer.I want my tomb soon to say,now available on DVD.Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is Anna.My fact this week is that in Wales you used to be able to get marriedby jumping over a broom together and divorced by jumping backwards over it.Lovely.Do you have to be together as well for the divorce?
32:50Yes, I believe you did.You see, now I'm now so old that you're running.pieces of folklore past methat I remember.It's that I know thatyou sent me this information.I know the phrase jumped the broomstickas a marriage thing
33:05whether it's because I was born in Walesor not but I instantly know thatmeans marriage.I'm so glad you know that because it was a common phrasebecause of this.I'm not sure how many marriages were done.It was there for 70s.I've been when I'm going into the 70s
33:21I literally, I can't think where or whenit was said but I literally know itas a thing and also the traditionat the same timeif a couple were in bedof putting a broomstick down the middle of the bedto stop them copulatingthat was a thing as well
33:36it was kind of a joke phrase you'd expect your grandmotherto say like put a broom down there in the bedso it was marriage and the opposite of marriageit's like weirdthat's Joe and Brettlet's clarify in case listeners startquestioning your age that Idon't think that people are actually getting married this way
33:53even in your childhoodbut yes the phraseThe phrase is what Russell's talking aboutYesWas it called a besom wedding?A Beesam weddingYesYeah so Beesam was the name for Brooms
34:03Before Brums came alongI never thought about thisBut the word brim is just named after the broom plantIt was just the plant they madeBrooms out ofOh okayWhat's a broom?Didn't know Brum was a plant
34:11No what's a broom about?No no I meanNor did ISoYeah exactlyLooks like a broomstickWowNo I suppose it's nice that we have this word
34:21That just is a plantBecause of thatThe bit that got me about thiswas the bit you're dealing with very likely is jumping backwards.And when I said that, I tried a little jump backwards,and you're lucky I'm here.Basically, that's really.Surely that was the earliest anti-divorce law in the world
34:38because it's impossible to jump backwards.Can you jump backwards?I'll try jumping backwards.Let's all do it now.I'm having a quick go.Come on, like, it's like, be careful because it's odd.I'm so glad Russell did the practicals for this.You see, it's right.
34:49Well, good.Well done.Yeah, yeah, yeah.But there's an odd though, isn't it?It's an odd feeling.There's an extra detail on that that I read because I guess it's folklore so things get attached in different ways.Well, and there were lots of different ways of doing it because every village would do it a different way.But what I read is that in order to get divorced, not only did you have to jump over it backwards, but the broomstick had to be put in between your front door and you had to do it leaving the house.
35:13So you jumped over it as you were going out.It was a threshold.Yeah, exactly.It was the same with the marriage.It was always, sorry.Oh, you would do it going in.But one detail that was added is that you can't touch the broomstick or the sidings of the door.But then they don't say what happens.
35:26How big a door?In old Wales, more.We're little people.Well, how are you both fitting?How are you both fitting side by side over the room?I think one at a time is what I'm assuming, right?Do you think that's where carrying the bride overcomes from?Must be.
35:40Over a broom, over an obstacle.God, you've got to jump over the broom while carrying your wife.Why are carrying the bride?And you deserve to be married.Yes.It's quite interesting.The sort of, like, the reasons behind it was basically, so it was a non-church wedding.and the community that it persisted in the longest
35:56was the Roman in communities in Walesbecause they didn't do church weddingsand so this was another way of getting marriedand without needing the churchbut it was also a way ofif you've been knocked up and haven't got marriedit was a way of ensuring that your childwasn't raised as an illegitimate
36:14nothing all I can think of is the word bastardbut I don't think we're supposed to call children bastardswhen they're born out of wedlockYou said the word illegitimatethat was the one that you yeah yeah yeahYou skirted right over.That's a language.You don't want an illegitimate child.
36:31So it was like a way of saying,I am officially married,but I'm not saying that this guyactually now has to raise the child.If you send me a bit of money every now and again,I'll just stay living with my mum.She'll raise the child as her own.And it will have the status of a besom child,
36:43which is a bit better than just being an illegitimate child.That's a horror film.The Beesham Child.That's good.Yes.Right.Right.More Welsh romantic tradition.
36:53Okay.Your love spoons.Oh, the love spoons.That's weird.Really?I've got a world of love spoon.You're weird, then.What do you do with it?
37:01On the wall?I don't, you know, it's so nice that I don't use it for anything.That's the problem with that.But it was, I didn't realize how much of a thing it was.Oh, and they completely exist still.Yeah, yeah.I mean, I wouldn't go to a wedding and expect to be given one.It's a tourist thing now.
37:15Yeah, yeah, yeah.Like horse crosses, you know, it's that.Yeah.Because it sounded like it was how you courted someone and you, and it had all these little symbols on it,that suggested what you were envisaging with them going forward.Sorry, it sounds rude.Okay, I've got it.It's not like a Casanova.
37:32They're on 17 sexual positions running down the spoon.Very big love spoof.It's like if I invented like a Welsh soap opera that was really coy and sweet,I call it lovespoons.Yeah.Nice, yeah.That's a tweed little.Yeah.
37:45But the under is the man carves it for his intended.And it's either you're away at sea and you're whiling away the long hours.And that's the way.you've chosen to do it.Or you...Like scrimshaw.Yeah, exactly.Or that you're actually going and sitting
38:00with your girlfriend or your wife to beand this is a way of just passing the timein the long, long eveningswhen you're only allowed to chat.So you may as well be whittling somethingwhile you do it.But is that scene?Is it always men doing the whittling?
38:12It's a man's thing.I think so.Yeah.I believe so.I would say that's an offensive date.If I'm going on a first, second,third date and the guy spends his whole timewhittling an effing spoon,
38:22I'm going to think I wasn't captivating.I think he was ticking that.Right.Yeah.What would you think if he gave you a knitting sheath?That was the other love token that would be handed over.Well, they're quite sharp.Yeah, in Wales.
38:35Finally you've outreached me.Yeah, there's...I don't know these.It's basically if you were putting your sword away into a sheath,it's the equivalent for knitting needles so that you would have them at the readyto pull out and knit as soon as you were in.Quick, I need a jumpers.Have we mentioned the bundling before as well?
38:52Because you mentioned the broom down the bed, but the other more aggressive version of that,if you thought there's no way this young man's going to be stopped by a broom down the middle of the bed,you would be tied up in a sack and put next to your...And I don't know if this happened in the 60s or 70s.Wow.The man or the woman was tied up in the sack.I think of anyone who was willing to be put in the sack, went in the sack basically.But it was lower half only.
39:14But occasionally, I think again with especially dangerous young men or women, they'd be tied up to the neck in a bag.And then you were allowed to lie in bed all night chatting with your intended.But it was just a safe way of ensuring that no hanky-panky occurred.And it was both people in separate sacks or both the same sack with a division.What do you mean one set?If you put them both in one sack, that's incredibly.That's extreme shagging.That's, you've totally got it wrong there.
39:39That's why we get the phrase in the sack.Was she good in the sack?Yes.Indeed.I think that I read one source.So again, there are various versions of bundling.Ponsors, I think, says you do have a sackwhich had like a division in the middle
39:52so they're both in it but you can't cross the...What's the point?What it's stitched?It's stitched down the middle, like a kind of...I think maybe, yes.I think just have two sacks.I think as ever all of this stuff happenedsometimes and in different ways in different places.
40:04And initially bundling actually didn't involve any sacks.I think it was the Puritans who made it a bit like that.And I think back in ye oldy whalesit was just meaning two youths who wanted to shagbut weren't married.And bundling meant you can have them.in a bedroom together, in bed together,and they'll chat all night in inverted commas.
40:22I mean, I read an 18th century account of old Welsh customs,and this person was saying,people attest to the innocence of the occasion all over Wales,but the number of times you get something happeningnine months after one of these moments.There's a hole in this, sir.Oh, my God, going back to that original fact,I read the whole jumping over the Brunitig,
40:45that was also the case for enslaved African-American,because, of course, they weren't allowed to marry.Yes.So that was the only ceremony they could invent a homesteads or an accommodationand their own rules of making their own society.And still is.Freedom that they found, yeah.I think still is a traditional thing to do in some communities.
41:04And I think there's a lot of debate about where that came from.But I think the most likely is that it did come from this Welsh custom.And that it was partly, you know, Welsh sailors traveling all over the world.And partly then, you know, Welsh migrants brought it to Americaand working class Welsh and English Celtic people in America.were there with the enslaved Africans and they passed it on.A cross over you wouldn't expect.Amazing.
41:22Cumbry and Bith.That's lovely.Are you from which bit of Wales?Swansea.Swansea.Oh, where the Queen has not been.Damn it.And was this, so all this stuff that we're talking about is, it was folklore, but was there
41:36stuff in your time that you mentioned to people down in, say, England and they're like,you guys used to do that?Well, it's funny.I've not thought of Jump the Broomstick since I was, when you sent me this, Southbecause I just knew that phrase.Yeah, right.I didn't exactly, I didn't go to university going,guess what we do in Wales?
41:53We've got a roomstick down the bed.So I've never thought of it as long.Also, Swansea's the only place in the world,I think, that calls a porter cabin a demountable.Oh, lovely.Demountable classrooms.And I thought everyone called them demountable.So I would go through life going,
42:08oh, you know, the meeting's in that demountable over there.People were saying.What, like the portingabble, we called them demountables.That's an extraordinarily different word.Because my school, my school was,I went to a great big comprehensive school of 2,300 pupils,but in the first year it was closed downbecause the great high-illuminous cement scandal,
42:24you think these recent cement scambles are new.We had them in 1974.Schools were built with high-alumina cement.Hospitals have been built with it.Swimming pools collapsed because they were built with this faulty cement.So all these buildings were closed down.We literally went to this again recently.It's astonishing.
42:40And no one remembered high-aluminous cement.So our schools were closed down.So our school was rebuilt entirely out of demountable classrooms.It's like 40 in a field.Why demount?Is it like dismanting, getting off?I think you could demount them.Dismantleables, you might as well have called them.
42:56They could be mounted and demounted.But only Swansea.I've ever heard that word.No one else has ever said to find.Yeah, I've never heard that.Yeah, that's great.Deuptables.One thing that originated, invented in Wales, actually, the idea of the radio play.
43:12Interesting.This is very cool.So this was in 1924, I think.and BBC was in its very, very early daysand they've done a few bits of Shakespeare on the radioand they've done an adaptation of Pride and Prejudicebut they've got a big night coming upwhich is going to be a few of these things tied together
43:29and the commissioner is sayingit just feels like we need somethingsomething that's actually written for the radioand a writer called Richard Hugheswho was 23 saidoh I'll write you somethingand they said well we've only got four days to goso there's no way we can know it is it so I'll write it tonight
43:45So that night he wroteI love thisIt's called a comedy of dangerAnd it's because it's WelshIt's in a coal mineAnd it's you knowA party goes down a coal mineAnd they get into difficulties
43:58And all of their stuffAnd he knew nothing about coal minesI think he was trying it onBecause he was WelshAnd he thought that's what they would wantYeah pretty muchHe said you knowHe wrote it in one night
44:09And it went out a fewThree days laterIt was recordedAnd bangFirst ever radio playWritten actually properlyFor the radiostill have it? Was it recorded at the time
44:17or would that have just gone out and disappeared? Oh God,those things 24. Yeah, it seems unlikely.They haven't kept Doctor Who episodes in the 80s, practically.So I'd be surprised.We've probably got a script. I like him. He was a grifter aligrafter.He was.They used to believe in knockers, apparently,which were tiny miners who mined
44:35under the ground in Walesand alerted real miners to where the locationof mines was. And Welshminers, up until the early 20th century,would say, the only reason we need to dighear was because we heard the knockers knocking away and you'd hear. And I just read suchsincere attestation as that people will say we're crazy, but I heard them drilling the otherday. That's a Doctor Who story. There we go. Yes, do the knockers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that.
45:00Knock them up. Brilliant. Yeah. I think you'll need a name tweak, won't it?Stop the podcast. Stop the podcast. Hey, everyone. This week's episode of Fish is sponsored by Saley.Yes. Now, if you have ever been lost abroad,or just desperate to do some Googling while you're sitting in a gorgeous Spanish tapas restaurant.You'll know how badly you want a good internet connection.And it can be a nightmare when you are, say, in a tapas restaurant,you haven't sorted out a plan on your phone,but you do desperately need to make a call.
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46:15Do it now. Okay, on with the show. On with the podcast.Okay, it is time for our final fact of the show, and that is my fact. My fact this week is that the only way that there will ever be a reboot of Back to the Future is if someone goes back in time to change history.So this is the fact that Bob Semeckis and his producer friend Bob Gale, who was also a writer with him, had a clause put into the contract when they were making Back to the,future when it was sold, that you can never make a remake of it, you can never make a sequelwithout our approval, and we're never going to give that to you. It's a quick pitch, Russell.I think there's actually a good idea for a movie to be called Back to Back to the Future.Back to the Back to the Future. Yeah. Where you go back in time to get them to stop writing theirclause. I just say, employ that lawyer. Yeah. It's an astonishing deal. Yeah, really.
47:08That is breathtaking. Is it? Is it a hard deal to do? I feel like you could just write it down.Anything ever, ever, ever. Yeah. Like, even like your big novels and stuff like that.Bob Gales always asked about it, and they say, when is back to the future for coming out?And the one quote that I found was he said, you know, you don't sell your kids into prostitution.It's the wrong thing to do.We put the end of part three for a reason.And they're not buckling on it.They just think they would only do it if they had Michael J. Fox.
47:33They're not going to have Michael J. Fox do it.Therefore, that's the story.That's what you get.Hold on.Can I ask, this is a reboot, not a sequel, right?So it's in the contract that they can't remake the first one.No.You can remake a back.
47:45They made the sequels.Yeah, because they made the sequels as well.Exactly. Yes, they made all three, part one, two, and three.And the contract that they've suggested, the clause, is that no reboots or sequels without their involvement.Yeah.Can I check?Did they sign this amazing contract before it was really successful?Yes.
48:03Because that makes it easier because then no one's demanding, we must have this.And if you can get it signed before it's hugely successful, maybe that helps?Absolutely.I think that was the case.But at the same time, studios just want to keep everything.everything. I mean, I've haddeals fall through just becauseAmerican companies will want the stage rights
48:22and you sit there going, I'm not going to give you thestage rights. It's like, and the whole deal'sbeen cancelled. Wow. Because of that.So they are rapacious. So to letsomeone do that, that's a great lawyer.Yeah. That's really astonishing. Well, it sounds like thatmight have been a bit of that bit of Hollywood anyway.So Ghostbusters had a similar clause.
48:39Not as strong as that, but itneeded approval ofAkroyd, of Bill Murray andmaybe one, and Reitman.And the reason Ghostbusters 3 took so long to come out is because Murray just didn't want it.He didn't even write it.He was just one of the stars in it.And he had a veto over whether or not they make it.
48:56Really?Yeah.So maybe Hollywood contracts were just a bit looser.Yeah.Those were the days.Wow.There's a great fact that we did as a headline fact on Fish Once, which is that the person credited as the official consultant about the future for the movie Back to the Future.He was their consultant was the great grandson of H.G. Wells.
49:16Yeah, that's who they brought on to itWell, do you think that man just piped up and said,I'm their grandson who aged you well and lied?I know how I'll get the job.Because really, what good interest does that give it?How was the interview?Any more logs in it?No.
49:30Oh, well, that's right.There wouldn't be in that period.Yes, that's quite correct.Absolutely.Can I tell you something about Chinese time travel?Yeah.This is really interesting because we did a fact maybe...Was it from left to right?
49:43Lovely.Ten years ago maybe we...did a fact of saying that time travel narratives are not legal in China and that they crack down on itbecause of course if you're changing the past you might be changing the future and therefore you might beimplying a world in which China didn't have a communist revolution all of this stuff so it's reallyinteresting that has changed a lot in the decade also since we discussed it because there are nowloads of stories which have alternate histories but it turns out the main use of thealternative histories is to take modern political thinking and technologies back so that everyone
50:17could be communists even better and even earlier.So they're really popular.And they basically make China great again stories like Red Dawn, where the main charactergoes back to 1905 and says, hey, communism, 45 years early.So I think that's fascinating.I did, because I remembered that fact.And I thought, OK, Russell with Doctor Who was that ever a problem.And I found an article that said in 2017, China finally.
50:41signed a deal with the BBC to allow for Doctor Who to be shown.And so I looked into it more.And before that, I found a blog by a lady called Susan Bloomberg-Kaysen.And she's an English teacher.And she wrote a thing saying, I teach English speaking and listening to groups of post-gradmed students here.And in order to help them learn, I put on an episode of Doctor Who.And she said, after a while, the conversation in the room started to get a bit heated.
51:05And then suddenly one of the students leapt to his feet, race to the front and paused the episode.There followed a four-minute rant in Mandarin,in which, I'm told, this particular cardiologistdecried both the program, the choice of showing it,my parents' marital status, and a few other interesting things.And then they all complained and said,sit back down, he's just trying to get higher up in the party,and they watched the rest of the episode.
51:28But there were heated students who thought,time travel, not allowed, this is immoral.Also cardiologist, and he's got two hearts.I mean, that's funny.It's so heretical.Yeah, yeah.Wow.There was a big fuss about the BBC signing
51:39a deal with China and then was never heard of again.Right.I'm not aware of a single screaming.Now you say this.I remember that and now I'm doing, I'm not aware of a single sales of China or a single Chinese viewer.That's weird.What happened there?Yeah.
51:52I may never know.Yeah.Tell us if you're listening in China.One of the early chunks of your book is the reboot of Doctor Who.I mean, you have for bringing you back to my book.But you have really appreciated the strenuous effort.Publicity woman was looking at me saying, you should be doing this, Russell.Thank you.
52:09I was being kicked under the table, actually, but I'm millied.No, but you did do this.You did take on the juggernaut.And I was quite surprised by some of the details.I'm not sure if you've ever said those before.But it wasn't meant to be David Tennant.So you were recording.Peter O'Toole.
52:24It was Peter O'Toole.No, but almost the equivalent because it was Tom Baker that you initially thought that you would bring back.In 2001, I kept on being brought into, I kept on being brought into,to meet various different people every time.And at that part, I was like, well, why not?Tom Baker, why not have, you know, the world's greatest living doctor is still sitting therein retirement. So it was discussed. And then the tide came in and the tide came out.Yeah. It was never mentioned again and different people came in and blah, blah, blah.
52:51But it was talked about. Yeah.Wow. Wow. He's so brilliant. Yeah. I was, I became obsessed speaking of the history of Doctor Whowith something now these guys will be bored by, which is the first voice of the Dalek.It was a guy called Peter Hawkins. Yes. So the Daleks are often compared to a pepest.Pepper pot. Everyone knows this, right?Yeah.What was his other big role?A flower pot.
53:14He was the voice of Bill and Ben, the flower pot men.That's really good.Pepperpot flower pot.Pepper pot.Thank you.Can I say a fact that we have a listener called David Lever,who sent in a lot of wonderful Doctor Who facts recently,and we weren't able to do them all.
53:30But I just like this one so much that when the deadly assassin,now regarded as one of Tom Baker's best episodes,great show, was released.The head of the Doctor Who Appreciation Society hated it so much.He immediately disbanded the society.And then David adds, this was the last time Doctor Who fans ever got this proportionately angry.That's great.That's funny, yeah.
53:55Russell, did you, when you read the 12 volumes of Casanova's autobiography?Did you read his five-volume science fiction novel?No, I didn't. Is that available anyway?I don't know.We know details about it, though.It's people who lived on the moon, isn't it?No, they lived in the hollow earth.Oh, in the hollow earth, that's it.
54:11It is wild.Which is quite a long-running hollow earth theory, isn't there?Yes.That's very...Yeah, it was coming up.Knockers.Knockers.Knockers.
54:19It was the knockers.That's all connected.Casanova's knockers.That's why we're here.Okay.There we go.Yeah, it was...I mean, it sounds amazing.
54:32It sounds incredibly inventive.Basically, it was a two...I think they're a brother and sisterand they go into the earth.Yeah, I'm telling you.They don't go and they get stuck in the ass.They all what happens.I know what happened with the problem system with him.
54:44Well, I mean, everyone was at it in the proto-earth inside our planet.There were 18-inch tall, hairless humanoid with red, blue, green, and mixed-colored skin.Come back to Wales now.I can say that.They would get some of their nutrients or a lot of their nutrients from the breasts of women, one of which produced milk, the other, which was wine.Oh, jaccommo.Giacomo.It was like that.
55:08Mine do that actually.Yeah.Well, this is very exciting.Russell T. Davis's Kassanova's knockers coming soon.Okay, that's it.That is all of our facts.Thank you so much for listening.If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things we've said over the course of this podcast, we're all online.
55:32I'm on at Shriverland.Andy.At Andrew Hunter M.And Russell.Please don't bother me.Yeah.Really?What the hell are you talking about?
55:39But if you want to see stuff that Russell's up to, you do have an Instagram account, which is very active.Duke.Catches lots of fun adventures.And you've gotten your new book out.So that is out now.It's the story of your life in TV, basically.So we spoke about Casanova and Doctor Who, but there are so many more shows.Years and Years, Queer as Folk.
55:58It's a sin.Children's shows, soap operas, everything.Everything.It's a fantastic book.I've read it.It's called The Queerest of Folk.It is out now.So get your copy.
56:08You can also,ask us some questions about this episode if you want by emailing podcast at qi.com and he goes through allthe emails he will pick out those questions he will bring them to our special bonus episode whichis called drop us a line and you'll find that as part of clubfish which is on patreon so go to patreondot com slash clubfish there's lots of extra bonus stuff there do check it out but if you have maybean extra fact that you think you want us to know about why didn't you send that because we collect all of ourbest facts and we bring them to Little Fish. That's our Monday bonus show. So if you want to hearone of your facts read out loud again, podcast at QI.com, otherwise come back here next week. We are
56:48going to be back with another episode. Thank you as ever to Leying Lee, Ethan Rupertellia, as well asthe wider fish buster team. And we'll see you next week. Goodbye.
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