Nvidia’s AI Guardrails, Big Tech’s White House Visits, and Elon’s Voter Data Grab
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00:48What we have been seeing increasingly is people breaking rules.Why should I play by the rules if nobody else is going to do that for me?This week on Explain It to Me, How to Mind Your Manners.New episodes, Sundays, wherever you get your pre,podcasts. So InVidia selling guardrails is like an arms dealer selling bulletproof vests.Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'mKara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. So how is this weekend? I spent the weekend with AriEmmanuel, too, because I'm interviewing him Tuesday. This is rolling the calls. This is his book.
01:28What did you think? It's very deep without him intending it to be, I think. That's going to be a reallyHe's accidentally thoughtful.No, he likes to do a lot of hand-wavingand then he reveals something that I don't think he intends to.Anyway, how was your weekend without me?So I don't mean to cop out,but one of the rules is it's supposed to be all off the recordand I want to get invited back.
01:51What I am comfortable saying is there was a sessionwith Rahm Emanuel, and he was very strong.Yeah, he is true.And I got to give Rahm his due here.He's one of the few Democratic candidates.who's actually talking about ideas.Ideas, yes.And the problem with, at this point,
02:11they're all trying to cosplay Obamaand talk about coming togetherand it's, okay, what are you going to doabout health care?That's what I want.And I think we need to go,and they all rag on Trump.I think we need to move from indignance
02:23to ideas.And right now I would argue Rom,maybe a little bit Mayor Pete,maybe a little bit,actually I think Senator Booker'staking some good swings.They really aren't sayingmuch of anything. You could argue Governor Newsom through his actions is saying something. But
02:38anyways, I don't mean to be critical to the other candidates, but ROM deserves, and maybeit's because he's at one or two percent, but I think he's going to be more of a factor.My thesis about ROM, and I'm curious to get your take, I think he's the Secretary Clintonof this race. And that is, I think he's probably- Policy guy. He's the policy guy.I think he's arguably the most qualified person running. Possibly.Congressperson, mayor of a city. He's got tax.practical experience. He was the chief of staff for Obama. But at the same time, Secretary Clinton wasn't a great candidate. I'm not sure Rom. I went up to Rom, and I don't think you appreciated this, quite frankly, and I said, I love that you're talking about ideas. You need to be sharper, more passionate. I said, quite frankly, you're coming across like a policy walk and that puts people to sleep. Yeah. Well, it's his only thing. It's his thing, because it's not, he's not tall, dark and dreamy, right? He's really, and he's intense, and he can be difficult.So I appreciate it.
03:36It's just the question of whether the voters will, right?That's the thing.You have to have both, you know, a policy.And if it's style over substance style tends to sometimes win, obviously.I hope so.He's going to be additive.He's going to, I think, I don't know how far he's going to go.What I know is he's going to be additive to the dialogue.
03:55Because he does a great job on a lot of issues.He actually does a really good job threading the needle on Israel.He's very anti- Netanyahu.He was courageous going to Israel and calling out Netanyahu for poor treatment of the residents of the West Bank.He's very good.And on any issue, he's done his homework.He's knowledgeable.Anyways, he was the highlight.
04:21All right, he was the highlight.I can't talk about it.Oh, good God.I got a picture from the polymarket guy.You know more about this than I do.I do because I'm indignant that I – no, I'm not indignant that he didn't.get invited. I never get invited because he, you know, here's the other thing about Ari.This book all is about how, what a tough guy he is. He's not a tough enough guy to have me in an
04:39event, even though I gave him a blur for this book, by the way, which I never do.Maybe he just doesn't want you there, Carol.No, he does. Maybe he's not tough enough. No, no, he's not tough enough with his, I'm leaving.Now, here's the thing. He's, you're going to get invited to the event, and then you're goingto crash this stave and say, I'm leaving. The Ellison's are here. I'm leaving.And then just hang around for the whole conference.Was it? I know. I love hanging around.This is my Warner Brothers Discovery vest.
05:04Oh, God.There's a lot of chatter about it, Kara.If that was your objective, box checked.Yeah, I know.It was my object.I know.A lot of people came out to me.I was like, I listen to the podcast with Kara and then that she's leaving, and this is what I think.
05:15And I'm like, I don't care.What do they all think?The summary is the following.People love and respect you and agree with your decision and think you should just do it and stop talking about it.No, I don't think so.I think I'm just going to make it.No, I don't think so.No, I don't think so.
05:31Keep it in the effort.That's why, because people need to keep it in the other.Nobody can go on the record.Anderson Cooper can't go on the record.Dayton & Gawkins can't go.You're the, you're the, you're the, I can say things.You're the deep throat of CNN.I'm going down.
05:42I'm going down.I am the spirit animal.Anyway, this book is really good.Anyway, you're in L.A., good.You enjoying yourself.You love that L.A.You're always in a zesty mood when you're there.Yeah, I just, you wake up.
05:54It's 74 degrees, dry heat.You know, I'm coming there tonight.I can't wait.And on Friday, I went to UC Santa Barbara,and I spoke to 1,200 students and was just inspired.I do love this University of California thingis your excuse to be in California,which you do love, especially Los Angeles.
06:14Notice how I'm here a lot in the winter, not in London?I know, I know, I know.I'm excited to go.I'm excited to do this event.Anyway, we've got a lot to get into.This one, I was actually, it just happened right,right when I was coming up on the train this morning.Invidia has launched the largest stock buyback in history,
06:29U.S. history adding $150 billion to its repurchase program at bringing its total authorization to $235 billion.The move comes just four months after NVIDE's board added another $80 billion to the buyback program.The company says it expects revenue to grow 70% in fiscal 2028.Now, its stock had been down, right?It had been at sort of lows.So presumably the buyback was part of that.But it's probably cheap to buy its stock back.So talk a little bit because I also want to add in another announcement, the company is releasing a tool that it says will stop A.L.
06:59agents from going rogue. How funny, the timing. The technology is supposed to help companies to monitorevery action taken by an AI agent. This comes after news that OpenAI's agents again went rogue andmeddled with government websites. U.S. government websites without the company's knowledge. This isamazing. These rogues have been all over the place without the company knowing. Meanwhile, Google,OpenA, and Anthropic are moving forward with plans to create their own AI safety standards,but it because why not let the arsonists run the fire department without government oversight with apossible launch by the end of this year, early 2027.NVIDIA is going to build garrails.
07:33AI companies are going to police themselves, which we do nottrust.And then there's buybacks, every way you want to go.Well, let's start with the buybacks.I just don't think people recognize just the scale of this.This is the largest buyback in US history.It's a quarter of a trillion dollars.They're buying back more stock than the value of the majority
07:54of the companies in the S&P 500.Now, I've been on a bunch of public company boards.We constantly have conversations around stock buybacks.And generally speaking, I don't like them.I don't like them for the corporation because basically when you take capital and you buy back stock,what you're saying is we have no new ideas to put the capital use.And I also like putting capital to use because it creates jobs.It forces the CEO to think about growth.
08:23And essentially, stock buybacks are a bit of an acknowledgement that you're a maturecompany and you're not growing as fast as you used to, so you're going to start returning moneyto the shareholders. And to be clear, this is a very efficient way to return money to shareholders.Now, going to the macro view, if you look at the three parts of our economy, consumers, shareholdersslash owners, and workers, everything we've done the last 40 years via regulatory capture hastaken money and power from the consumer and the worker and giving it to the shareholder.because we've let industries consolidate such that they can raise the rates faster.We have neutered employees power via the destruction of unions or a lack of minimum wage
09:08or all sorts of regulations that say, oh, no, you don't have to pay this person.I had a bit of a controversy about some comments I made about paternity and maternity leave,but the reality is it's a conversation only held in the lunchrooms of Google and JP Morganbecause only 20% of Americans even have access to paid parental leave.So on a company level, I don't like these on a macro level.I think when you do stock buybacks, the company should be forced to pay a small tax, just as when someone pieces out and takes their equity somewhere else to do lower, get a lower tax rate such that they don't have to pay back the great states of California and Washington and the infrastructure they provided to create that wealth.I think that's wrong.I think when people borrow against their stockholdings such that they don't incur a taxable event, I think it should trigger a taxable event.
09:52Yeah, that's a Peter Thiel original.But what does it say? What is it saying here? Why are they doing it? Obviously, the stock has been lower than it was on a rocket ship and then it fell off pretty considerably for its growth.It's very strange, but by traditional metrics, arguably the most important company in the world, the premier company and the hottest technology in history, feels cheap on a PE level. I mean, it's trading at a lower PE than Walmart or Costco.Why? What is the thinking here?Well, there's real fear and anxiety around the AI trade right now.There's a non-zero probability that these AI agents go rogue, and we're forced to step inand either nationalize these companies or tell them to stop or take a pause, which is not goodfor business.
10:41So selling shovels in a gold rush is great.Using your shovel profits to buy your own stock, it basically says that the shovel sellerisn't sure how long the rush is going to last or how deep the mind is.going to go. So,NVIDIA is the mostvaluable company in the world. Acting likeit's at peak margin. You know,it was interesting. People like, you know,
11:02I remember Chumath-Palli Hopatius, andwhen they buy back, that's a bad sign.Like, I remember, it was, I think it was like...It's an acknowledgement. You're a mature company.Yeah, like, you know, and of course, you've said that a lot oftimes. And what, what's, we believein ourselves? But again, you're right. Can'tcan't they find something else? And talk about
11:18this, this tool. They suddenly saythey're releasing.that they suddenly have to keep us safe.I mean, obviously, they're fighting an uphill battleagainst this narrative.And even someone who's been much more measured,Jan Le Coon, say the Dumaism is going too far, of course,but who has been pretty measured about the dangers
11:36and the assets kind of thing.But the Dumeurs are winning this particular fight right now.How do you look at, now they're saying,we have a thing that'll fix it,don't worry, we'll handle it.And then the same thing the companies are saying,They're worried about liability here. I feel like this is all about their criminal liability and other versions of fraud and product liability, etc.So, Nvidia selling guardrails is like an arms dealer selling bulletproof vests. Yeah. It's a great business model. You get paid on both sides of the war, right? Yeah. It's. Here's the bandages. Yeah, here's a bullet, but wait, we'll sell the operating supply.
12:21supplies to repair bullet.I mean, it's just, I find it a little bit off-puttingand Open AI meddling with government siteswithout the company knowing is basically saying,we've gone from AI might someday act on its ownto AI acted on its own last Tuesday,and we found about it in the news,or found out about it in the news.
12:42And I still don't buy this bullshit of like, oh my God,Frank's up to no good, I'm so sorry,but it's not my fault, it's Dr. Frankenstein.or Frankenstein, or Frank, we'll call him the monster, was sentient.And Dr. Frankenstein could have logically said, it's a great book, by the way.I recommend Mary Shelley, I think it's a genius.Anyways, he could say, okay, I regret this.I'm going to try and stop it.
13:09But he's kind of, unfortunately, making his own decisions.I don't buy that here.Yeah, they're on the hook.If these guys start facing civil and criminal liability, I just am confidentthese geniuses are going to fucking figure it out.And they're going to start building amazing bots that nark on the bad bots.They're going to say, do this.Read the Constitution.
13:29Read every legal thing.Read philosophy.And narc on any bot that starts behaving.These things aren't sent yet.But when you tell them to be persistent, you're taking the risk that they might interpret persistentis building its own code and violating the law.Yeah.We don't even know what they're doing.
13:50I know they're doing stuff.We don't know.But I think you can reverse engineer every one of these rogue agents to a programmer at OpenAI or Anthropic who was instructed to program it this way.So I really don't like this notion that they've gone rogue.No, this is an army and there's a general who gave them these orders.Yeah.One of the things that's interesting is that the Republicans, Mike Johnson just had another moronic interview.You all, you know, he was saying that data centers are Chinese sci-op.
14:22I mean, honestly, what a fucking moron this guy is.And that we don't need tech regulation and, and, you know, on and on and on.He's just carrying water for Trump in this regard in the tech companies.I mean, honestly, like, he was like, we don't need tech regulation yet.And I'm like, we never had it.And only someone who's been in the closet for that long would understand, would not understand what had been happening.but one of theTrump keeps supporting him
14:50and at the state dinnerI don't know if you saw thisI want to get intowhat happened with Chinabut the state dinnerbrought out a slew of tech leadersJeff Bezos,Sam Altman, Mark Zuckerberg
14:59were all thereand of course you had Elon MuskJensen Huang and Tim Cooksitting at the head tablewith Trump and shethey just, you knowas New York TimesSean McCreech put it
15:09it was just a fun little dinnerfor the people decidingthe future of humanitywhy does Trump keepsupporting thisAnd we'll get into the Chinese visit because it doesn't look like anything happened except we got two pandas and maybe extended a trade truce by a couple of months.But he keeps doubling down on them, Trump does, as does Mike Johnson, as do not all the Republicans.A lot of Republicans are, you know, cutting loose.
15:35Why does he keep doubling down on AI?On AI, yeah, and Johnson too.Because the economy is the lone economy and GDP growth is the lone bright spot in the Trump administration right.now. The economy is actually, I mean, the deficit is a huge problem. Inflation is a big problem,but the underlying growth of our GDP, the majority of the G7 would kill for it. We're stillgrowing. And growth is important. It's the only way out of a deficit. It's the only waygrowth and productivity solve not all, but most problems. So his attitude is if 72% of corporateearnings are coming from the hypers, if 93% of GDP growth is coming from the,
16:15the just unprecedented at CAP-X spending, then do not get in the way of this.This is the only thing I have going right now.This is my fallback is to keep asking people how the 401K is doing.But the thing about self-regulation, which is he has basically said self-regulate,is it has a track record.We have a history here.It does work for low-stakes products.So, for example, the moving ratings, the MPAA that you see G or PG-13, video games have it,
16:42the ESRB.but where it fails is for high-stake industries.For example, the Tobacco Research Council.I don't know if you remember that.You shouldn't because it didn't work.Wall Street before 2008.Or Facebook's Oversight Board, or the new one, the CNN editorial board.Self-regulation is a diet where you're the nutritionist and the cake.
17:08It just, you need a comp, the answer is both, right?Nuclear power has the NRC.Airlines have the FAA and drugs have the FDA.We don't let Boeing certify its jets anymore.We learn that the hard way.But he keeps like these dinners, they have been to the White House more than I literally,I'm so sick of seeing these same group of people at the same dinners.They have more influence in the cabinet.
17:31Why?I was thinking, I was sitting there going, why don't they invite like the trucking people there?Why don't they invite maybe they're there, but it's these same people in the same critical seats.And I'm kind of like, hey, let a concrete manufacturer in there sometime or let like another industry.You don't see, I mean, I know Jamie Diamond was at this dinner.Speaking of which David Ellison was also at this dinner while they were keeping CNN out of it.But it's a really interesting thing.It's like how long this is going to, this kind of weird kabuki drama between them is going to continue.
18:05And at the same time, they got nothing, which is probably what they wanted, no AI policy at all.during this G-visit, right?And for people who don't know that,I love you to think what you think of what happened to visit,I think most people think nothing,but Anthropic CEO Dario Modi was not at the state dinner.This gang doesn't like him because he's a little bit, like, slower.But he and Trump had their own private dinner Sunday night.
18:28I don't, I found out what they were talking about,but he was, he was there at the dinner.I mean, at his own dinner,because I guess he can't dying with the others.But they're, obviously they're having enormous influence,and yet there nothing happened.during the summit with our key partner in AI, which would be China.The pattern here is it's a mix of courtship and coercion.
18:49You blacklist the company on Thursday and then you invite them, invited CEO for dinner on Sunday.It's not policy.It's a protection bracket with a wine pairing.It's just, it's so inconsistent.Well, the metaphors are just so easy.They write themselves right now.We're in an arms rate with China, then label one of its frontier lab.the national security risk. It's benching kind of your starting quarterback during the Super Bowl
19:17because he won't go to your barbecue. I mean, it's just these guys, and I have never seentwo people such as Dario Amadeh and Sam Altman, I've never seen two people more in over their headever. And I don't want to say empathize with them, but they have so much pressure to recognizethe economic potential that they have built.All their employees must be counting their money, buying houses,thousands of investors who desperately need to show that they know how to invest money,the president putting pressure on them,and at the same time, they have employees saying this might be an extinction event.
19:58Right, a lot of employees, actually.And much evidence that they don't have control of their technology.It's like I'm on the road,and my 16-year-old who refuses to go to bed when I'mthere, when I'm on the road, he'll call me, he'll FaceTime me in bed because he wants guardrails.He's like, I want to know the rules by which I play by.And these CEOs, I actually think they're pretty genuine at a minimum.I mean, they want to shape the AI or they want to shape the regulation.
20:29But they're saying, Jesus Christ, just tell me what I'm allowed to do and not allowed to do.Yeah.Supposedly, he had a scheduling conflict, so Trump invited him to a private dinner.But I think Trump, I think there's a lot of enmity between him and the rest of the gang that was there, especially Jensen Huang and Maltman, for sure.This is the worst manage so far.I'll give me an example.I was at an event with a lot of alternative investment managers.That's the best managed brand in recent corporate history, because basically what they've convinced America still to do is to pay them fees for a product that doesn't work.
21:06if you take all of the most famous hedge funds and all of the brilliant investors,Berkshire Hathaway, you add all of them up, they have underperformed the S&P by the amount of their fees.And yet we all, including myself, think we're lucky when we get into this fund or whatever.It is, they have done an amazing job.The brand of alternative investments has convinced capital globally that they can outperform the market.And you know what pension manager does the best job?It's the guy who runs the Nevada Retirement Authority.He has a shitty office, and all he does is invest in a bunch of different vanguard low-cost funds.
21:45He's one guy.And most of these states and countries have hundreds, if not thousands, of well-paid people figuring out a way to underperform the S&P by their fees over the medium and the long term.What an amazing brand.Equally bad is AI.It's gone from AI is going to take our job to AI is going to kill us.Kill us. I know. What's the next thing?Yeah. And hell exists and you're going there. We figured it out.But did they, the other thing was this dinner. Like, this dinner was really interesting.
22:14Because I think she won the entire thing. And what was really fascinating is all these Fox News stars were there.Like, what's his name, the one that's on the show with Jesse Waters, going on and on about communism and then yucking it up with the communists.It was just like these people, like, honestly.This was such a missed opportunity.Yeah, nothing happening.When you have she and Trump in the same room and you have the AI folks, the opportunityto say to she, look, we're competing on AI, but there's a lot of vent overlap in termsof the things we want to prevent.
22:48We don't want a middle power developing a nuclear bomb.We don't want bioweapons.We don't want our kids to be depressed.This is an opportunity for us to establish reconnective tissue between the number one andthe number two economic power and cooperate.we're going to outline, if they had both done a press conference, this would have been thesmartest move for Trump going into the midterms. If they had a joint press conference and they'dhad their diplomats instead of the faulty, like, cult they have now, but if they had their
23:14diplomats working for a long time to say, these are the areas we're going to agree to cooperateon around AI, it would have made an outstanding closing ceremony that would reflect it well onboth of them. This was a huge missed opportunity for the Trump administration. This wasWe got pandas. Yeah, we got a panda. It was a photo. Two. We got two pandas. Yeah,I just, look, this is, again, another missed opportunity.This was meaningless, and it was a huge opportunity.It should have been around cooperation around AI that would have made our populace feel better and show leadership and bilateral cooperation.Huge missed opportunity.
23:46Yeah, he was definitely showing off the tech leaders, but they looked ridiculous.Anyway, let's go on a quick break.When we come back, Elon's voting website scam.So like any good millennial, I have a love-hate relationship with Gen Z.It's the phenomenon rattling millennials.They just look at you.They want something bigger themselves.Lifestyles are priority.
24:12Motivation is being inspired.But regardless of how you feel about Gen Z, it's undeniable that they're changing nationalpolitics.Generation Z is increasingly showing less loyalty to traditional political parties.Many now more likely to identify as independent.So what is going on with the kids?I think the biggest misconception about Gen Z's politics right now is that all of ussudden they're all socialist. That is just not the case.
24:36Yeah, yeah. They are embracing candidates who are offering new bold ideas in the absence of thoseideas from establishment Democrats. This week on America, actually, Gen Z researcher, RachelJamfaza joins us to separate Gen Z fact versus fiction. It's not rocket science. And this is,you know, I keep saying like, young voters aren't that complicated after all. It's pretty simple.Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast.Support for the show comes from Policy.Everyone's busy, your mom, your neighbor, the dog. We've all got stuff going on. So it makessense if life insurance isn't necessarily top of mind for you. Policy Genius knows that. Their
25:17licensed team helps you get the right policy fast so you can get on with your life. PolicyGenius is an online insurance marketplace that allows you to compare quotes from some of America'stop insurer side by side for free. That means you can easily find what you need, coverage, amounts,prices, terms, no guesswork, just clarity. Policy Genius helps you find the most affordable policythat works for you. They answer questions, handle paperwork, and advocate for you throughout theprocess, and you know you're in good hands because PolicyGenius has thousands of five-starreviews on Google and Trust Pilot from customers who found the best policy fit for their needs.Prioritized peace of mind. Lock in your life insurance today. With Policy Genius, you can find
25:5420-year life insurance policies starting at just $276 a year for $1 million in coverage.Head to PolicyGenius.com slash pivot to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you could save.That's policy genius.com slash pivot.Support for the show comes from Zeta Global.Understanding your customers is one thing.Anticipating their behavior is another.But in business, if you want to succeed,you've always got to be thinking two steps ahead.
26:24Zeta can help.Zeta helps marketers and enterprisesto be on disconnected data and fragmented tools,bringing customer and business contactsinto a clear, more actionable view.It brings together what a business knows about its customers,what it is trying to achieve,and the decisions required to get there,
26:38and instead of asking teams to operate another dashboard or stitch together into their workflow,Zeta's AI can help determine what matters, what should happen next, and how to improve based on the result.The goal is to help you make better decisions about who to reach, what to say, where to invest, and what to do next.For customers, that means experiences that feel more useful and relevant.For businesses, it means spending less time managing technology and more time building stronger relationships and driving results.Ready to make smarter, faster decisions, visit zataglobal.com slash pivot to learn more.Scott, we're back with a little over a month ago before Election Day.There are some questions and concerns about election security, some legitimate, some not.
27:22Obviously, they just, New York Times just had a great story showing that all these fraud allegations that Trump had of thousands of voters, it turned out to be zero.But if you're heading to the website Votesafe.org for answers information, think twice.The site is run by Elon Musk's America PAC.Vote Safe can collect your name, address, email, phone number, political information, and browsing activity.Its privacy policy says that information,may be shared or sold to business partners.For safe and reliable voting information, go to vote.gov, even if it's run by the president,it's the official government website or vote.org, which is run by a nonpartisan nonprofit.
27:58If you're voting from overseas, there's also vote from abroad.org.I just ran into them when I was in Vienna.Full disclosure, it's run by an organization of Democrats abroad.There's a lot of tricky voting information websites out there.You have to be very careful of, and Elon's at the forefront.Early voting is already underway in several states.So are you worried about this chaos?I run into a lot of people who remain continually worried about Trump, Elon and others creating chaos around the election.
28:28They're like, you know, martial law was brought up last week by some Trump's outside advisors.I don't think he's capable of doing that.But maybe I think he's capable of it.I don't think he'll be able to do it.Supreme Court has cleared the way for states to use Trump administration's citizen database to check ineligible voters.But there's not that many.So it's kind of stupid.It's kind of stupid.
28:49What they're trying to do is prevent people from voting.And just the last part, Trump is reportedly predicting the Republicans will overperform in November,pretty much every other sign pointing in the opposite direction.His disapproval rating just hit 60.4%, the worst, either of his two terms, even worse after January 6th,if you can believe it.Meanwhile, gas is averaging nearly 4.50 a gallon mortgage rates have hit above 7%.And we're seven months into the war with Iran with no apparent exit strategy.A lot of Republicans are now calling for that.
29:17One Republican advisor gave Axios,this is F of the GOP's midterm outlook.The numbers are somewhere between shitabulous and craptastic.You know, he's moving into the 20s in approval ratings, by the way.And I think the best joke I heard was he's very excited to get to the teens because he loves them.What do you think, Scott, about all this?This voting thing just drives me crazy.I want people to go and make sure they can vote,
29:41but not be tricked by these ridiculous websites that are.our PAC websites, essentially.Okay, there's a lot, though.Let's start with Musk.I just don't think, I think history shows that power corrupts,and absolute power absolutely corrupts.And we never look back on history and thinkthis one powerful person should have more power.
30:00We just never, almost never think that.And just to be fair, I heard Elon Musk speak recently.Mm-hmm.The guy is a-That's why I wasn't there.Okay, I'm not saying what event.Okay.The guy's an enormously big thinker.
30:15It is very difficult not to be inspired when you hear that the new Falcon heavy rocket is going to have a car, you know, a payload capacity to put a space station in orbit on every launch and he wants to get to a launch every five minutes.I mean, it just.If he can do it.And he's building a vehicle that has the greatest thrust in history.It's just, you can't help but be inspired by the guy.If he can do it, yes.I want to acknowledge that.Now, as it relates to, but I have gone.
30:45I don't know what the term is not socialist, but progressive.I think capitalism evolves a progressive tax structure.Taxes protect us from this type of absolute power and corruption.And I'm not saying, I think people should be allowed to make billions and trillions of dollars.I think you want to let your thoroughbreds run.And this guy, from an innovation standpoint, as secretariat,the concentration of power, we need to have checks on it,and actually taxation, progressive taxation, is a check on that power.
31:13As it relates to vote save.org,this is a data harvesting operation wearing a civic costume.This is fucking Halloween.It's pretending to be, it collects your name, address, political info, and browsing activity,and then it can sell them.It's basically a fake ATM that skims your card and then tells you where to vote.And could tell you bad things.Who knows?
31:40Who knows what it's given information is giving you?He's done this before.The $1 million a day petition was also a day.data grab in swing states. He's not doing voter outreach. He's doing voter acquisition. And in politics,the list is the asset. Phone numbers, emails of motivated voters are worth more than the ad.This, again, is list building disguised as public service. To me, and I don't think it's illegal,I think it should be illegal. Well, I'm glad he's inspiring, but what do you, I think he's alsoextraordinarily dangerous in this area, in this area of wanting to create chaos, create, you know,
32:14Why lie about who you are?If you, you know, just say, hey, I'm Elon.If he's so open and honest and inspiring, just say, I'm Elon Musk.I'm for Trump right here and we'll talk about it.You can give me your information.I don't know.This is, hiding himself is in plain sight seems to be a very disingenuous thing to do.This is a broader theme and solution we need to move to.
32:37And that is we need to move further towards one person, one vote, as outlined initially by our foundingfathers. We have strayed so far from that. It's a small number of voters and a small number of statesand a small number of people and organizations that decide our elections. And we need to de-jerrymanderthe U.S. In certain states in the South, they have 20, 30 percent black voters, but they've figured out a wayto not give them any representation. It doesn't matter what you vote in California, New York. It doesn'tmatter with respect to national politics. We need huge reform around Citizens United. We need tode-jerrymander, just take a grid and place it over the U.S. and make congressional districts.And also, we just should not be comfortable with any organization, including the health care
33:31industry, which is now the biggest political donor, or an individual having this kind of power.It's just not. It's the, it's anathema to the basic notions of a democracy.It is. I mean, I understand, I have been in that inspiring talk by you than I have. I think he doesn't do as much as he says. He's going to do, but he talks a great game. Like, and he does a lot too? He's done a lot. But the question is, does it outweigh this kind of nefarious activity? And also his string of, you know, racist and misogynist and anti-trans and sort of going into other. When I was abroad, everyone there was talking about the,way he medals in other people's politics by supporting right wings. Well, the new Americanexport is political division. He should post Britain. He hasn't been there in three years.Germany. Yeah. Germany, everywhere else. He's exporting American political division. I feel the sameway about Musk as I feel about big tech. And that is, if you had a button to say, all right,he ends up going into art and we never hear his name, or you had a button where big tech could just go
34:35away, I don't think you'd want to push that button. I think these guys and big tech, I would argue,as critical as I am of Musk, are a net positive. The problem is with the word net, and that is you canappreciate that he inspired the EV race. You can appreciate space exploration. You can appreciatethe economic growth and the wealth he's created for people. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't holdhim accountable for what are, for saying there's a white genocide in South Africa? Yeah. Forsaying that to having a media platform that really does seem to rip the fabric of the Americanexperience and how we feel about each other to use his wealth to probably swing electionsand swing states.
35:18It's like Henry Ford.He was always racist and misogynist and anti-Semitic, but a similar situation.Really, he would put out newspapers at the dealerships.He would try to swing elections.He would do, this is the kind of thing that has been in our history, and we have to put a stopto it. And this votesafe.org is disingenuous. That is it. Like, period. Yeah. No, it really should be.Data harvesting posing as something else should be illegal. It is fraud. Last thing, these prediction byTrump that he's doing great, he's predicting that he will overperform. Trump is predicting that he's
35:53going to overperform. Well, what is he going to say? I predict we're going to get slaughtered in themidterms. Why not? I got to be honest, Kara. I'm really nervous about this. I would, if I had a magicwand right now, I'd want the election held this afternoon.I think that Democrats are just unbelievably good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.That's true.It's like if there's a way to fuck this up, I think right now we would take the House and the Senate, which I would love to see.I'm just like, oh, Jesus Christ, don't fuck this up.Yeah.
36:22Oddly enough, I've run into a lot of Trump supporters who are no longer that way, everywhere I go, which is really, and they want to talk to me about it.I'm like, oh, good, good, good, get out.I'm going to vote.I'm going to vote against him.I'm like, well, we'll see.Let's see if you do it.And I agree with you. It's nerve-wracking, but it's not that long. Okay, let's go on a quick break and we come back. Who's running ads for the new Elon Musk documentary and who's not?Support for the show comes from Zbiotics. I know a lot of us like to have some drinks during vacations. I just got back from vacation myself. If you do, we'd like to tell you about pre-alcohol by Z-biotics.
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37:25and my first drink before I go out is, in fact, Zbiotics.I was using it before they became a sponsor.Try for yourself today.If you are unsatisfied, they will refund your entire order,no questions asked.Head to Zbiotics.com slash pivot.Code Pivot for 15% off your first order.Zbiotics is a partner of ours.
37:49AI panic is everywhere.We do not want a data center in this county.AI models are becoming superhuman in their ability to break in and out of computer systems.F*** the clock, damn rose, bro.I hate those things.But where is that panic really coming from?According to a poll from the New York Times and Siena,less than 1% of voters listed artificial intelligence or data centers as their top priority
38:16in this year's midterms.I'm an old school person.I don't care about AI.He's saying that doesn't register for you.And sometimes I wonder, do they care about AI in so-called real America?What people in my district are saying is we think the risks outweigh the benefits.This week on America, actually, I'm talking to Michigan congressional candidate Will Lawrenceon why he shaped his entire campaign around.
38:39confronting the AI revolution.Really, it's about control, I think above all.Who decides?Because people feel like they just are not really given any say-so in the whole matter.Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast.Scott, we're back from more news, actually related to Elon.Meta and YouTube are reversing course and will now run ads for Alex Gibney's upcomingElon Musk documentary after initially rejecting them.
39:07Meta, YouTube, and TikTok reportedly refused to run the ads for political content reasons.That explanation didn't make much sense.since we're talking about a movie trailer, not a campaign ad.It's not that hard.Mena now says the rejection was an error,while YouTube says the system temperrestricted an ad before clearing it following a review.Tick-tock still isn't running the ads
39:25and no surprise neither is X.He doesn't have to.I don't really care.How would you promote the film,just very briefly on this one?It seemed kind of stupid by these tech companiesto look like they're carrying water for Elon.How would I promote the film?
39:35First off, I'd edit it down to two hours.Yeah.I just think a four-hour film is destinedto not be seen by a lot of people.Okay.Also, I hate to say it, but banned by big tech is a great trailer and money can't buy that.It's the stricent effect as a marketing plan.Yeah, that worked this weekend.
39:52Where would you promote it?I would put billboards across the street from Tesla dealerships because I think I'd get a lot of attention.I would do projections on the side of X's offices and get shut down.Blue Sky Threads, Reddit, podcast, where the audience is already of Elon's skepticalhighly engaged people.And then theater pre-bri-boh.I love marketing.I used to do, you know,
40:17in brand strategy,we used to talk about media plans.The platform's reversal on this is a tell.When they said,first they said they wouldn't run it now they are.Meta called it an error.The error was thinking that no one would notice.And when your first instinct is to block criticism
40:34of a billionaire,the algorithm isn't neutral.It's deferential.And that's the problem.is these standards, these billioners have a different set of standards, or get to live by a different set of standards.And one of the nice things about America is that we have a series of checks and balances that check,and quite frankly, are sometimes unfair to popular people.And that's healthy.
40:58So, you know, X not running it, you know, of course not.You don't expect the Kremlin, you don't expect the Kremlin state newspaper to run F.for Navalny, I get it.Right, yeah, that's true.But the other guys, you know, if they're going to be whores for bot farms,probably sponsored by the IRGC and the GRU and the CCP,banning an ad for the must film doc just comes acrossas very much different set of standards for rich people.
41:27It'll be interesting to see what the Ellison's do,because it's supposed to go on HBO and they will be in control of HBO.Oh, that's really interesting.Yeah, that should be interesting.We'll see, because they are close.Actually, Larry Ellison and Musk are very close.or work. Well, Musk considers Ellison as mentor. Yes, he does. Yes, he does. Yeah. Yeah. And he's,he's gotten him out a lot of jams, a lot of jams. Anyway, lastly, this was, I thought, hysterical. I don't
41:49know if you saw S&L. I didn't think it was a very strong show, although Jill and Brunson is soadorable. Saturday Night Live took the AI industry's recent doom warnings as Jane Wickling,playing Anthropic CEO Dario Amade this weekend. This clip, I thought this was spot fucking on.Let's see the clip.You know, you know, thanks.Thanks for having me, Michael.I may have been alarming in my recent interviews,but I want to assure you that if we can pressure lawmakers to create guardrails,
42:17we will be able to stop me.Zario, can you just explain how your company isn't going to kill us?So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, that's a really hard question.It went on where he was talking to himself at one point, he said,A.I. is the devil and I'm its maker.So, so, Scott, what do you think?I said the comments before.I've never seen two people who are more over their skis.
42:47I get the sense, I mean, it's, you know, I get the sense Dario's a good man doing his best.And he woke up and said, I didn't ask to have all of my fingers near a red button that might launch nuclear missiles if I twitch in my sleep.Very Oppenheimer, right?Like, what do I?But Oppenheimer had guardrails.Yeah, they did.Oppenheimer didn't get to decide where and how, where nuclear bombs would be constructed and who they were dropped on.Other people got to make those decisions.
43:17And he was really.And he still was agonized over it.And he was really freaked out.And but this is, again, my go-to analogy, in 1946, would we have let Oppenheimer raise money from Andreessen Horowitz and start selling nuclear devices into Pakistan and Procter and Gamble?These guys are in so far over their head.there's a total lack of regulation, a total lack of adult supervision, and they must feel pressurefrom every which way but loose. But at the same time, these guys own these pit bulls. These guysown this AR-15. And if they do not secure this shit. Which can be very nice dogs when properly
43:55trained. Yeah, pit bulls are wonderful dogs. Let me be clear. It's some of their owners that aren'twonderful people. Anyways, I think, again, I think the whole sentience thing is an attempt is a smokescreen to say,I am not. I am absolved of guilt.These guys are, in my view, should be on the hook like every other CEO for the harmand the economic upside.You and me both sister.I mean, I think the only thing I find interesting, and then we have to finish up hereis that they all have different takes.
44:22Like Mark Zuckerberg had an interview with Joanna Stern that I recommend you watchbecause she asked about the creeper glasses and he looked visibly uncomfortable.You know, he had a different take.Modi has one.Altman has it.They're all also, just so you realize everyone, these are all silhou.Silicon Valley people beefing with each other about their businesses. It's not about national security.They could care a fuck about you. This is about their businesses. And that's why they're sitting at that
44:46table with Trump. That's why they suck up to him. That's why they're arguing with each other andpretending it's about something else. This is all about the survival of their businesses, includingDario. And they are very much on a very sharp knife edge at this moment for all of it.And the problem is, and I will say this, so much good could come of this in so many ways.And instead, this is the discussion we're having about it, which is not a bad thing to have.All right.One more quick break.We'll come back for wins and fails.
45:26Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails.Would you like to go first?Sure.So my fail is this performative steel plan in Iowa.Oh, yeah.That's going to cost taxpayers $15 billion for about $1,750.50 jobs. So that's roughly $9 million per job. You could give every one of these workers lifetimesalary, a house, and a boat, and still have money left over for taxpayers. And again, the broader
45:51point is we've genderized politics and Trump, quite frankly, brilliantly, took advantageof the fact that many Americans, especially in the Republican administration, feel like the governmentand industry has been feminized. And we need to degender decisions and just say, is it the rightdecision. A windmill is not feminine. And Trump going to a steel mill and spending $9 millionper job is performative testosterone. He loves fire, sparks, and hard hats. This is, he thinkshe grows more chest hair when he goes to a steel mill and announces its opening. The tariffs onsteel protect about 80,000 mill jobs, but they end up taxing millions of workers at downstreamproduction in the supply chain.
46:38Automakers, builders, and appliance makers now have higher costs, and they will lose moreemployees than these tariffs will protect its steel mills.The 2002 Bush steel tariffs, they are estimated to have destroyed a lot more jobs thanthe entire steel sector gained in employment.It's like the equivalent is chemotherapy that's harder on the patient than the underlyingtumor.It is meant to grow jobs.It doesn't.
47:06It destroys jobs such that he can have what he feels as like a Rambo performative masculinity.Steel is about 30% more expensive than Europe's steel and nearly double Chinas.We haven't made steel great again.We've just made it more expensive.Yeah, this is nuts.So my fail is this performative masculinity that is irrational, economically stupid of opening a steel mill to get one job for ninemillion dollars. You're 100% correct. My win is I always, well, I think young people, I think it'sreally important to have role models and say, this is how I want to acquit myself professionally and
47:46personally. And it's okay to change role models or, you know, or add new ones and really followpeople. And I just absolutely adore and think of role models. Timothy Snyder, Ann Applebaum,and Heather Cox Richardson. And Heather and Tim, and I just had Tim on my podcast.I have just such immense respect for people who decide to go become historians, which is generallyspeaking, not a high pay, high impact position. And they are just having such a moment in being, in myview, such great patriots. They are fearless. They are such compelling communicators. I had Tim onthis morning, and he really struck me with a couple points that I just seemed obvious in retrospect,but I thought we're so insightful. He said, if we had spent a fraction of the capital that we have
48:31spent on wars the last 30 years on escalating or speedballing the transition to renewable energy,we might not need to have any of these wards. And a lot of the bad actors that we'refighting against or launching their own wars have benefited from the fact that we haven'ttransitioned to renewables. I thought that was so insightful. And then the other, I thought,really striking insight, and you showed me some data here. And I just hadn't thought of it this way.He said that if we had taken the munitions, we've expended on the war in Iran and we'd given them to Ukraine, that the war would already be over.It would have been over.And we would be rebuilding it, and we would be making money from rebuilding.
49:11And when Americans need to know, because I'm not sure all Americans know, because there's, as is often the case, there's minority rule that does not represent American interests right now.Americans actually feel very positive about Ukraine and want to be supportive.We have basically abandoned Ukraine.And when Whitkoff and Kushner go over,folks, they're essentially parroting Sergei Lavarov and Putin's talking points.So if you feel strongly about our support of Ukraine,make sure you speak to your representative and vote for people who have the stonesto say we need to be more supportive of Ukraine because we have basically abandoned Ukraine.
49:48But coming back, my win is I love historians and people who are fearless and arecompelling and are using their platform to, I think, have really powerful impact on the shape ofthe world right now. It's a nice, it's kind of, it's a really, it's not only an important momentfor them, but it's just nice to see people in industries or professions. I mean, could they haveimagined one day, I will be influencing. No, they're dropping their info. They're dropping theirinfo. It's really, you know, I love a historian too. I ran into Anne at the Atlantic Festival that they hadjust recently. Oh, she's wonderful. And her husband is a total gangster. She's no, she's like, no fuckingnonsense. I'm like, housing so. And she goes, we're on the edge of a precipice. And I'm like,
50:27oh, okay. Like, I just had a really good piece of bread because they also had this person who madethe world the country's best bread. And I was like, the bread was good. Like, it's so like,and I thought the most powerful moment of the UN, actually, her husband is the foreign ministerof Poland and a total gangster. But he basically just stared down the Russians and said,yeah, we're ready. Yeah. We're ready, bitch. I mean, he's just like. Yeah. Did you see Icelandgoing up against Netanyahu, because the lady from the head of Iceland just like slappedNetanyahu, because he was like insulting the whole crowd as they walked out. And then the head ofIceland was like, yeah, fuck you, buddy. So here's my idea, Kara. The best thing for the world,
51:11for global peace, prosperity, humanity, taking down the temperature around the wrist, taking upthe temperature on opportunity would be a zero-cost agreement. That won't happen. That won't happen.but it would be the most powerful thingin terms of a benefit to the world would be the following.And I want to get your reaction.Every democracy, actually, every nation in the world says,okay, this has gone too far.Here's an idea we're all going to sign up for it.
51:39Any leader over the age of 72 has to step down within 12 months.Yeah, I love it.What would happen?We'd lose Trump, we'd lose Netanyahu, we'd lose Putin.Like, who over the age of 72 you think is just really good for the world?right now. And that's incredibly ageist, and I'm going to stick to it.I would go a little bit older, 75 would be where I'd put it. But I like it. I like it.I think 75 is where I would put it. As you get older, your... Oh, I'm gone, Scott? I'm telling you.
52:08As you get older and more powerful, your self-awareness and your concern for future generationdeclines and your cognitive ability declines. Yeah, yeah, I agree. And we need this new...Let me be clear. I'm not on board with a lot of mom, Donnie, orAOC's policies. But Mamdani, AOC,Vigah, Al-Said, these guys are generational talents.And people of my generation have to recognize, the world,people in their 20s and 30s, they're going to be around a lot longer.And these people, these guys are such, they're so talented.
52:46And if we don't have churn at the top, we don't have room for these people.I love it. I love it. All right. Okay.I'm going to get to my woman.I would agree with you.I often tell people older than myself whenever they yammer on about something.I'm like, what do you care?You're going to be dead?Like, that's my new.
53:02Then they always like, that stops the conversation.Who should get more votes?Someone who's going to be around 10 months or someone who's going to be around 80 years.My children.My children.Absolutely.We're just going to get on off and go to conferences.I'm leaving.
53:17I'm leaving.I'm still here.When I retire.I'm leaving.I'm going from 14 podcasts.I'm going from 14 podcasts a week to 13.I am telling you, I will be gone.Like, you will not see hide nor fucking hair of me after probably 75, but maybe 72.
53:34I think we're both going to have a stroke on a plane to some like pivot conference in Minnetonka or something.You're the one that goes into dumb conferences where you all cat around that fancy fancy snacks.Okay, my win and fail very quickly.One is the fucking Pope.I love this guy.Oh, yeah, that was great.He took on, the crowds in France were insane.He gave an astonishingly kind, and he's so like what I need right now.
54:00And I just love everything comes out of his mouth.This guy is like such a powerful figure, and I think I'm very happy he's shown up.And I love that he attracted huge crowds.I love his messages.They're all about kindness.He also wades right into AI.He wades right into modern about war.I just think this is the kind of, and I just agree with it.
54:21just think it's a very kind version of where we need to go. It's a very good roadmap, whetheryou're Catholic or not. I like voices like this, and I think he can do it, and I'm glad he's doing it.So I would say he was my absolute win. Nancy Mace's Catwoman outfit, I'm not sure if it's awin or a fail. I can't decide. Did you see her in a podcast in a Catwoman outfit?I haven't seen it. I hadn't heard of it, but I already know I endorse it. Okay, that's what ISo I think it's probably, it looks like she needs some help, but in any case, my fail is this, this Cornell story,which is getting a lot of attention online.What's really interesting, I saw a movie many years ago called Promising Young Woman, which is stuck,
55:00it's by Emerald, Emerald Fennell, and it's an astonishing movie, and it's so upsetting.And literally, I think about it at least once a week, because it hit me so hard that movie.I recommend everybody seeing it, but this situation at Cornell where these guys may or may not,Look, it's alleged.This woman has now sued them in civil.It looks like they never did any kind of investigation at the time.And they're now re-investigating it.It's causing a great deal of fervor online.
55:28And naming this one group at Cornell, this newspaper,I think it's called The Sun, has done much of the reporting hereand named the names of these people.I think they deserve their time in court.I think they seem to have gotten off rather easily,depending on what happened.And it looks like the prosecutors in the area where Cornell is let the campus police do the investigation, which seems they never did an investigation. Now they're doing it.I have to tell you, the rage of women right now is so bubbling under the surface that I think people are going to see some things happening from a voting point of view because women never, you know, women have to sort of sit there and take it a lot of times.
56:12But this story is enraged to so many people I know.And so I just think it needs to be the investigations being reopened after allegations in the lawsuit.There are texts saying, I'm not going to.Well, I'm going to.It said free pussy upstairs.And these guys apparently drug this young underage woman.But the Tompkins County District Attorney, who did not do his job, will revisit the decision not to pursue criminal charges against seven fraternity members.They need to investigate this.
56:42There is a anger growing among women about a lot of this stuff.And I think it needs, it's really, it's really disconcerting on every single level.And again, I would recommend you will watch a promising young woman.It will upset you.It is a mind fuck of a movie.And you should watch it anyway because it's a really important movie.And that's it.That's what it is.
57:06It's like, I'm not a really happy thing to talk about.But it was, I can't believe they didn't do a normal investigationof this situation. I know there's been fake allegations before and everything else,but I think an investigation should have happened and should happen now.Yeah, look, one of the most wonderful things about college is that we think it's a safe placefor our kids. And it needs to be a safe place for men. I've been horrified by some of the hazingincidents I've been reading about in fraternities. That's just unacceptable. And also,it needs to be a safe place for women. That in the context where the
57:43There's a lot of alcohol and a lot of drugs and a lot of partying.Young men need to be educated that they need to err on the side of protection for everybody, always.And that if they don't, they might end up in jail for the rest of their lives or at a minimum kicked out of school.And also what I experienced firsthand with campuses is there's huge incentive for the campuses to try and do what they think is the right thing while kind of minimizing it and sweeping it under the rug.Because quite frankly, this is terrible for the Cornell brand.So the incentives to just sort of say, let's do what we think is right while ensuring it's, quote, unquote, not a big deal leads to instances where no, there should be absolutely, regardless of how poorly it reflects on the brand, there should be full transparent investigations.And I think that is going to happen here.It is. It's just that this guy, like, they use this Tompkins County, district attorney, used the campus police investigation. And these guys, what are they like?
58:49They're going to look an imbecile with a badge as my experience. I don't think that's fair. I worked with a UCPD at UCLA.UCPD is a level up. Yes, a level up. But they shouldn't be doing this investigation. It should be done by authorities and to rely on their investigation.Or people with specific domain expertise of around this time. Correct. That is, I can't believe they relied on this.Look, I had some not great ones when I went to Georgetown,but I'm sure there's a lot of very good camps police,but they shouldn't be doing sexual assault investigations, period.Period.Anyway, I hope this investigation goes well and goes fairly for everyone at the same time.
59:25It's a real fail on behalf of Cornell management,and especially when they had two of them write an essay on what they did wrong.And someone said, release the essay files.I think we need to do more than that.Anyway, we want to hear from you.send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.Go to NYMag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show.We'll call 85551 Pivot.
59:47Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week on on, I'm speaking with legendary Silicon Valleyventure capitalists and Scott Galloway's favorite person, Sir Michael Moritz, his new book,Scott, it actually is a really good book, is all about his family members whoescaped Nazi Germany and those who died in the Holocaust.We talked about the parallels to modern politics and how powerful people have folded to Trump.Mike's been actually outspoken compared to a lot of Silicon Valley people on the other side.Let's listen to a clip.What I've tried to do in the conversations that I've had with, had with various people, although I've given up on it because, you know, history is not going to, you know, we'll see what happens, was the number one thing that you want to look for in any leader is character, number one.
01:00:32And I think a lot of, well, I know a lot of people in Silicon Valley held their nose or turned the other way and ignored what they knew.And shame on there.And you ignore character at your peril.I just want to comment on that.I did not have a good professional experience with Sir Michael.Having said that, he has been a powerful voice around anti-Semitism.And I like what Sam Harris said, that if you're well-eastern,and have people who love you unconditionally, which I know the first, and I assume the former,
01:01:07I assume, and the latter with Mike. He is speaking what he believes is truth to power and I admire that.Yeah, it is. It's not just Andrew. Seventy. He's been standing up in a lot of ways that other people have not.And he also started the SF Standard, a newspaper there, a competing newspaper.Yeah, and by the way, it's terrific. I recommend everybody read it. I think he's done a great job. He was a former journalist.Yeah, you can like or not like him, but I have to say he's one of the few, Ron Conway is another.one who've been just very true to themselves, and I appreciate it, and not just because I'veagreed with them.Okay, that's the show.
01:01:40Thanks for listening to Pivot, and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel and getyour tickets for our upcoming pivot tour at PivotTor.com.Anyway, we'll be back on Friday.Today's show is produced by Larry and Amund, Marcus Taylor Griffin, and Todd Wiseman.Ernie and Erdog engineered this episode.Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Ms. Severo, and Dan Chalon.Ashok Koros, Vox Media's executive producer, podcast.Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform.
01:02:05Thanks for listening to Pivot and Box Media.We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care.I'll see you later in the week.
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