Puck Soup - Who's Gonna Turn It Around?

Episode Date: August 18, 2026

Sean and Ryan talk about whether teams that missed the playoffs can make it this year, Brad Marchand's surgery, Detroit's front office, and more. Get bonus episodes and more at Patreon.com/PuckSoup Sponsored by Mint Mobile (mintmobile.com/puck)

I'm Ryan Lambert from the Perfect Takes newsletter in the hockey news. I'm Sean McHugh from The Athletic. And we were just saying, folks, before we hit record on this, this is going to be a nice, long episode because of everything that's going on in hockey right now. Huge news. Everywhere. Literally, I would say there were two pieces of news in the last two weeks, maybe. And we'll get to those. But first, I want to talk about something that, uh,

I've been thinking a lot about, which is every year, and Sean says this all the time, I'm not, you know, treading new ground here, but every year, teams that you don't expect to make the playoffs, make the playoffs. And that obviously requires somebody to be unexpectedly bad. But when we're talking about who's going to make the playoffs this year, it's always someone you don't expect it. Every year, like, you know, would it? I'll put it this way, Sean. would it surprise you if any teams in the NHL, like, made the playoffs? You know what I mean? It wouldn't blow me away, shock me.

There are certainly a couple where I'd be like, what would have to happen? But then very often the answers. I think it's only two probably, right? Yeah. Chicago and Vancouver seemed like the only one to be like, whoa, really? Calgary would be the other. Calgary, yeah. And I think in each one of those cases, you can go, well,

the goalie just went absolutely insane. And Calgary certainly has the goalie to do that. I guess all three teams do. If, was it, NHL.com, had Dan Vladar as the eighth best goalie in the league, anyone can be a top 10 goalie for one year. Can I say really quickly, folks, when you see those NHL lists, that thing that Sean just said is why you don't have to pay it. attention to them at all. They, they design them to piss you off and make you feel like you're going insane. It's a sigh-up against you, the hockey fan.

So, because, like, I saw one the other day that had, like, Victor Headman is the eighth best defenseman in the league, and it's like, he played, like, 15 minutes a night for 30 games last year. What the fuck are you talking about? Anyway, now it's working on me. You know what I mean? Got him. They fucking got me.

There's no two ways about it. So, Sean, I want to ask you this very simple question. How many teams that missed the playoffs last year are going to make it this year? I am going to say. And divide it up by Congress. Let's do in the east. In the east, I think it is two or three. Do you want the teams?

Or do we do that next? Yeah, let's do the teams in the east first. Yeah, let's do it. Absolutely everybody has the Panthers on their list of teams that are going to that missed the playoffs last year that are going to make it. I think the other spot that certainly feels like it's up for grabs is at least one, if not two spots in the Metro. Those penguin flyer spots. It's up for grabs as I've ever seen. The penguin spots for sure.

The Flyers is interesting because I thought we had all agreed that the Flyers were an okay playoff bubble team that made it last year. But then, like, during the Leo Carlson thing, it was, there were a lot of takes that I'm only slightly exaggerating that we're like, yeah, this is a powerhouse. They can give up those first round picks because they're all going to be in the mid-20s for the next four years. This team is locked in. And obviously that was in a world where they had Leo Carlson. But even then, I was surprised at how many people thought there was no chance that any of these picks could be decent picks. So, you know what, for fun, let's say those two spots go up for grabs. And I think the two teams most people would agree on, one is Washington, who just,

just missed last year and improved, seemed to improve significantly this. It seemed like it really pissed them off that they missed in a way that you don't always see. And then, I mean, are we doing the Devils again for, this would be what? I'd love to know if they think their goal is. We all think the devils are the sneaky. I saw a quote the other day from Patrick Wa being like, Nico Dawes is going to be the number one guy there. and it's going to go great. And I was like,

you sure about that big cap? We really locked in on Nico Dawes as the future of NHO. I don't think you need to be incredible or anything. You don't have to go out and win the Vesna to get a team into the playoffs. But, man, it's a really weird goal tending situation in New Jersey.

So it wouldn't surprise me of any of those guys are like, able to be a little above league average. But all of them for 82 games, I don't know. And then obviously, if not, if not the Devils, then that does open a spot. And it would have to be a metro spot because I'm assuming the Panthers get the Bruins spot. Yeah, I think that's a pretty good guess for sure. Ottawa is also in play very much. I don't, I'm not, I don't have the Leafs as a playoff team, but I think they, they would be not especially shocking if they were to get back into that mix.

Yeah. But they've got a lot of ground to make up. Well, I mean, does anyone think Columbus is making the playoffs? Yeah, Zach Werenzky. He's the one guy. Well, Sean, I got to introduce you to the concept of working. He's working the marks out there. Oh, yeah, I think I could, I want to stick around here.

In the words of an immortal philosopher, I think he may have worked himself into a shoot. I don't think so. I think he, he sees it for what it is. But then how could he? Because he wanted out if they weren't going to win. And then he didn't want out anymore. I think he saw A, I think he saw what happened with Dylan Larkin

And was like, let's let him take that bullet 50,000 times over like every time you bring up the red wings Everybody's like, boy, I really hate that fucking asshole Dylan Larkin all of a sudden, you know And also, I think I think you want to give it like 25 games and see where it is Because, like, he cannot be stupid enough to think that...

Five shifts. They're down two nothing on opening night. He does the Patrick Waw behind the bench, like, to the owner. I just can't imagine that he looks at that roster and goes, not only do I think this team can make the playoffs, which again, anybody can make the playoffs. It's not that hard. You just have Jet Grieves. improved from what he did last year, right? And he goes,

okay, we're going to be the playoffs. Fucking so what? You know, but making the playoffs isn't hard the Boston Bruins just did it. You know, it's not that difficult. They let half the teams in the league do it. Are we, are we that convinced that the Bruins are

an easy team to take off? I mean, we have to take some teams out. And I think there's certainly, I don't think it's controversial. It wouldn't be controversial to say they're the most likely of the top four in the Atlantic. You could argue about Ottawa. So the reason the reason I would say the Bruins can do it and make the playoffs again, they have Posternak, they have Swamen, and for a lot of the season, they're going to have Charlie McAvoy and maybe Hampus Lindholm, right? Like if you get all those

guys for the 70 games that you're looking for, that's four really good fucking players, you know? Lindholm, I guess, didn't have the best year last year, but it's not so long ago that you're going, and he'll never do it again. Although, you know, wouldn't surprise me either. Then the rest, it's like, okay, is Morgan Geeky going to score 39 goals again?

is Pavel Zaka going to hit 30? They lost Victor Arvinson. He had 25. I just don't see where they're getting all these goals. Can Swamen have like another Vesna adjacent season? Yeah. Can Posternak put up 100 points again? No problem.

Absolutely. But like both of those things would have to happen for them to get in again. I think that's fair. Is there flipping it around? Is there any team in the east? that we're willing to just put it in ink that they're in the playoffs. Like, I can't imagine Carolina not making it. Yeah, I think that's great.

I'm really making a brave stance here. Well, maybe I am, because isn't that Carolina's whole thing is that they make the final and then they missed the playoffs for a couple years and then back and forth? Yeah. I think I would be really surprised if Montreal didn't do it. Yeah, Montreal, I think is too. on my list of just because they

I mean they barely did anything during the off season but just as a young team even if it feels like Caulfield and Suzuki like maybe we saw their ceiling last year yeah I think as a team they certainly

punched above their weight 106 points and through the Eastern Conference final like I don't know how replicable that is for them and I'm sure everybody will be like then they're going to be taking a step back. But it's like, I don't know, man. They've got a 10 point cushion to take a step back.

That's exactly right. And also the other important thing to say there, I think, is like, if they're a hundred point team, that's still really good. That's all you're looking for. And then you see what happens in the playoffs. Mm-hmm. So. I, the sabers have the most room to give of anyone other than Carolina. sure I feel like we've we kind of slept a bit on the Sabres getting worse over the summer

in the sense that it was like usually when you talk about a team getting worse you're talking about stuff happening that was unexpected or that they didn't want or whatever and they Alex Tuck we we kind of figured was gone and everybody and everybody loved the Bowen Byram trade, how they, what they made out of that situation. But they still lost Bowen Byram for nothing as far as, well, I mean, not nothing, but for very little as far as improving the roster. And Alex Tuft didn't bring anyone in. They, they added something, but I'm not sure that they added as much as they

subtracted as far as immediate like opening night on the ice assets. So it wouldn't, it wouldn't blow me away if Buffalo missed it. It's also Buffalo. Who said it better than that ever in the history of saying stuff?

Yeah, I mean, that is the whole, and last season, I think you can say all their goalies to one extent or another overperformed. Team average goaltending for them. was 10 points higher than the league average, 896, and they were 9.06 as a team. I like Uco Pecalucaninan.

I think Alex Lyon's pretty good. I don't know that they're that good that consistently, right? And then you take away all the goals Alex Tuck scored, right? I'm not as concerned about losing Byram only because it's like, well, you got Rasmus Dahlene. Let him shoot the puck. you know. But again, like, he was a Norris finalist last year, if I'm not much mistaken. And like, the best defensemen in the league aren't, unless they're like Cal McCarr and Quinn Hughes,

aren't Norris finalists at almost every single year level consistent and good. So if he's the ninth best defenseman in the league, instead of the third or fourth, depending on what you want to say personally, What does that cost them in terms of points? Like, I think it's tough for them to miss the playoffs. I do not think it's even remotely impossible. Yeah. If that makes sense.

Yep. And then the real interesting one for me is Tampa. Yep. Who everybody was picking to come out of that division at the start of the playoffs last year. I mean, I think they're going to be, I will pick them to make the playoffs every year until they don't. And then maybe one or two after that. Maybe.

Yeah. But also, like if I had to pick a team out of, certainly out of like Carolina, Montreal, maybe Buffalo 2, like to say like, oh, they drop, they're this year's leaps. They drop to like under 500. I mean, just given where Tampa's at, like you could see it. Andre Vasilevsky gets hurt, slumps, whatever. Like we, we tend to, I think, over-emphasize the whole closing window narrative thing of, oh, it's not going to close, it's going to slam shut.

Like, sometimes it closes gently. But it could slam. It could slam on the lightning. Well, you know, I actually wrote about that last week with specifically talking about the avalanche where they, yeah, they just went to the Western Conference final where they got swept. by a team that I, you know, had some of the worst coldending I've ever seen in the playoffs on a team that went deep. But, like, it only, you only realize it's slammed shut in retrospect, basically. Like, you know, look at how people talked about Chicago when they're getting swept by Nashville. And it's like, yeah, but they'll be back next year, blah, blah, blah.

And it's like, it turns out if you look at it, they didn't do that at all. And with Colorado, like, they went to a cup final. And I guess we'll talk about this more when we talk about the Western Conference. But they went to a cup final. They win it, right? They have gotten out of, I believe, the first round, or maybe the sack, I can't remember now. But they've gone on a deep playoff run once in the four years since then. And it was last year where they got nuked by Vegas, right?

And the way I was talking about it was like, what do you? you think is more likely to happen in the next four years. They win a Stanley Cup or it's like they never get out of the first round again. I think it's probably the latter. And at that point, you would look like if you looked back over the previous eight years and saw one deep playoff when you'd go, I guess the window slam shut on them. You know what I mean? Yep. And I think you can make that argument with Tampa to a certain extent because they got to 106 points and lost in the first round last year, right?

What did they need to get to 106 points? The heart winner and the Vesna winner on their team. You know what I mean? I think they have a great coach. I love so many players on that team. This is another team. They shed talent this summer.

You can certainly say Darren Radish punched above his weight this past season. Everyone's going to agree with you. except John Chaka, right? Yeah. But they didn't replace him with anybody. I mean, John Carlson is eerie, but like, in actual practice, did they get another defenseman who's going to put up 20-something goals in 70 points? I'd say no.

And they lost in the first round and only had a quote unquote only had 106 points. Like, it's not crazy to say that they're going to miss. I don't think it's very likely, but it's certainly possible. Yep. So who were, who were your picks? I have Boston dropping out. And I have both Pittsburgh and Philly dropping out. Okay.

So, so give me, give me Florida. Give me Washington. And then I'll get a little crazy and say NYU. Yep. They love to, the islanders love to not be in this conversation and then suddenly be in there and be like, oh yeah, remember us? My only reservation with that is Ilyu Seroquin was second in the Vesna voting last year and they didn't make the playoffs, right? It's fair. The thing with them is, how do you factor the coaching change in?

I mean, that's literally what I was about to say. So the only thing I'm thinking is they took a coach who was bad, in my opinion, and replaced him with one who's one of the best in the league, in my opinion. So I think that helps. I really do. I don't know that you're, again, this is such a nasty thing to say because, like, he's 19 years old or whatever. But, like, if Matthew Schaefer scores 23 goals, or 25 or whatever the number we want to say he's getting to next year.

If he does that again and he's as good as he was last year in most of, played like 25 minutes a night, something like that. And it's like if he improves on that, give the fucking get the Norris. Which which feels like a very realistic possibility. I mean, Kail McCar and Quinn Hughes both, it was year two where they really, they made a big leap. So it's terrified to think what Matthew Schaefer's big leap could be. Yep.

That's right. So that's why I'm more betting on the coaching change being the difference maker than any individual player. But I really like Pete DeBoer. Always have. It's just it's weird, right? Because you don't like we always think of like what team's. changed coaches in the offseason. The Islanders didn't do that, but it's like, yeah, but they kind of did.

Oh, they totally did. Yeah, of course. What did he coach eight games at the end of last year? It was four, wasn't it? Like, didn't, they went after Vegas, I think. They certainly did. Vegas had like 15 games or something like that. Anyway, it doesn't matter.

Point is, it's effectively, yeah, you were right. It's four games. Yep, one three and oh, the island. Oh, okay. So this guy's stick. It's going to be a disaster. Yeah, he sucks. So yeah, that's, I think that's the move here.

You just pick, when's the last time Pete DeBore missed the playoffs, you know? Yep. The answer, not including last year, is 2015. So that's not true. I lied about that, actually. It's 2022 with Vegas. That's right. Then Vegas fired him.

He went to three straight Western Conference Finals in Dallas. I'll that work out for doubt. Anyway, why don't we take a quick break and we'll come back and we'll talk about the West. How's that sound? This week's episode is brought to you by our good friends at MintMobil. Folks, when we are kids, summer meant freedom. No homework, no teachers, no school. Now that we're all growing up, summer can still mean freedom thanks to MintMobil's summer sale.

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180 for 12 months, plan required, $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees are extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigs may slow. When network is busy, includes up to 20 gigs hotspot capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mittmobile.com. All righty, let's move over to the Western Conference. And that's the similar question here. How many teams that missed last year are going to make it this year?

This one's a little trickier because I feel like there's only one team that everyone's going to... Like, there's one pretty obvious swap, I would argue. Laser focus on the Los Angeles games. Yeah. And it's the sharks getting the spot, right? I mean, that's what we're all trying to. to wail into existence. Yeah.

Beyond that, I mean, certainly the big three in the central feel locked in. Yeah. Utah, everyone has, has been calling them ascended for, for a few years now. I'm very easily swayed on Utah.

I think, I think they're in play. Knights and Oilers, no. And then the ducks. Ducks, yeah. I mean, you could make a case for the ducks, but then you look at the teams that are, in theory, chasing. I mean, some of this is just the numbers, right? Like, the gaps are quite big in the West.

Yeah. St. Louis could maybe be a little feisty. I can see what St. Louis. Are we doing a last dance style thing with them? Are they trading hellabuck or what here, man? Let's get to the fireworks factory on this. It'd be nice if we got that figured out. Yeah, obviously, like, the thing with Winnipeg is,

I don't think anybody believes they're ever winning a president's trophy again, right? Not with this group anyway. But Connor Hallibuck could show up on, you know, on September 29th or whatever their first game is and go, no, it doesn't a season for me, I think. And everybody has to go, all right, I mean. Yep, you've shown you can do that before. Very few guys in the history of the sport have been as consistent in the Vesna running

as Connor Halebuck over the last 10 years or whatever it is, right? So he could do that and you don't need to get to 115 points when you have a Vesna guy. You can be like Tampa and get to around 100, 105, something like that. And all of a sudden,

you're like, okay, well, that obviously gets you in the playoffs at the very least. We don't have to believe the team's good, but, you know. So I think, whatever, there's like a 12% chance Winnipeg does that, right? But, yeah, the thing with the West is you're like, okay, is Nashville going to hop in? I guess UC Soros could do that too, but it's been a few years. that since he was like that level good. And also all their guys are old. And also like they,

I now I'm not remember. I got to click on this really quickly here. But I'm trying to think like, yeah. Do you think Stamcoast and Forsberg are both getting to 40 plus goals again? I don't know. It feels unlikely. Yeah. Do you know who the next closest guy on their team wasn't goal scoring?

I do not. Ryan O'Reilly, he had 25. Do you know who the next closest guy was after him? Nope. Matthew Wood with 17. 107 goals scored by Stamco's Forsberg and O'Reilly, and the team only scored a total 242. And just refresh my memory.

Those three guys are all in their mid-20s, right? I believe they're all teenagers. Yeah. No, they're all 35, 31, and 34 is how old those guys are. that's crazy man nobody nobody appointed game on that team last year and Saros

wasn't very good he was fine that's about it he also faced the most shots in the league is that good that's kind of his thing he sort of does that every year doesn't he? Yeah it does kind of feel like that if he's three of the last four years

he has done that yes you know that's a that's a consequence of him playing a lot but that's also a consequence of the team in front of him is bad. So he could go off. I'm not, I'm not holding my breath,

let's say. So I'm going to say, I think the answer is two. I think Utah could easily drop out. And I think L.A. is certainly going to. Yeah. Even though I think,

you know what? I say that. Peter Lavellette, when's the last time he had a bad first season somewhere? That is true. I just don't. I'll say two. I'll say it's ducks and kings.

Wow. It would be funny if the ducks dropped out. Everybody would be so mad at Leo Carlson. Yeah. I'll say sharks are, I mean, the ducks had 92 points last year. Only two more than the Kings.

Now it was only one less than Edmonton and who they beat in the first round. But all they just let's, young teams tend to. be a little bit wobbly. So I'm going to say sharks in. God, I don't, I don't like any of these teams. No, screw it then. I'm going to say Chicago in.

Just so that I get a nice pat on the back. Because, you know, I get young teams tend to be wobbly, but also somebody makes the insane leap every year. Sure. Almost every year. It isn't every year. but you know and we saw that team was the sharks last year and they didn't make the playoffs

in fact they didn't come all that close I mean they missed by four points ultimately but they had 86 so that's closer to 10 points out of the playoffs than anyone but who knows Connor Bedard gets back

gets healthy goes nuclear for 60 games even then I'm talking about it all right move on Move on before I convince myself that this is stupid. So I think, frankly, I think this is kind of put up or shut up time for St. Louis. You just moved out that bum, Jordan Kairu, that stinky bum. You just moved out that guy who's one of your best players.

He didn't have a great season last year, in all fairness. You're really hoping a guy like Jimmy Snugger who takes a big old step. this year. And what you're really hoping for is that Robert Thomas plays the full 84. He only played 64 last year and he led the team in scoring. Which isn't a good sign when your top guy missed 18 games. That means the other guys were like sitting around those other 18 games going, I really hope, you know, guy gets back, you know?

But you also, Dylan Holloway only played 59 last year. Jake Neighbors played 69, Kyra Miss 10. You know, I think that there's room to talk yourself into something with this team. But it really does need to. And you know what? I think sunk this team last year, honestly. And it brings me no pleasure to say this shot. Believe me.

Jordan Bennington was one of the worst goalies in the league last year. your boy I hate saying guy I hate to say it I like him so much he seems like a normal person 873 save percentage I believe that

the second or third worst goals saved above expected in the league he's in a contract year he can't be anywhere near this bad again basically and if you're

and here's the other thing unplayably bad he got 41 fucking games last season and I looked it up it's not like Hofer was was like hurt for 20 you know yeah hofer one of the best goals he's I'm overstating it

hover had a really good season he Hofer had a really good second half yeah that's exactly right he was Binns in the first half and then yeah but have we learned lesson from that maybe.

Yeah. Don't play the guy who is one of the worst goals in the league. But if you had to pick one of those two to lead the league in, or sorry, lead the team in starts. Oh, it's Hofer. I mean, Hofer already did it. Yeah. And like you said, he wasn't even that good in the first half.

But Beinington was horrible all season. First of all, he was okay in the Olympics. Oh, God. this guy was Canada's starting goaltender. But what I'm saying is you don't need Bennington to be the guy he was in the Olympics. You need him to not be the worst goalie in the league. And you probably make the playoffs. You know what I mean?

Yep. So that's where I think they're going to find some wiggle room. They missed by four points giving 41 games. to the worst goalie in the league in certain respects, right? So if he's like the 10th worst goalie in the league, they probably make the playoffs. Yep. I mean, you're selling me on this, let's just say.

And again, I really like Jim Montgomery as a coach, apart from maybe his roster decisions vis-a-vis the goal last season. but excuse time is over for these guys we got rid of the vile loser Jordan Cairo he's out you got an old you got the old goalie that needs a new contract and like he's playing his way out of the league

if this is what he does again this season I don't think that's going to happen so I am I am slotting St. Louis into the other the other position. Okay. I like it. They also, man,

could this possibly be true? They went, they were a 500 team in regulation last year, but they had 12 overtime losses and shootout losses? Good Lord. That'll probably even out a little bit too. So yeah, those are the,

those are the two I think are in, but it's, Can I say this, Sean? This is maybe going to be a controversial opinion. The Edmonton Oilers feel like they're now officially like one injury away to either dry-side alert. Okay. All right. So because I-

From having something to talk about at least. Because I skipped over them. I put them in my like- Yeah. I think we are, we're all penciling them in for sure. Damn. All right. No pressure on Freddie Anderson, but.

Once the last time Freddie Anderson played more than. like 30 games. I wonder what the answer is. Let's see. Well, I guess he did it last year. But 35 only played a big chunk, but we saw how it ended. Yeah. But the last time he played more than 40 games in the regular season was 2022.

That's a long time ago now. But they're doing the thing of like, oh, we actually think it's good to have three goalies. Well, yeah. And I'm glad a team is doing this. I'm sick of hearing about how three goalies is in, impossible to handle. Make it sound like having three goalies is like, oh, we got to practice on gravel and we have

to ride our bikes to the other city for the games. It's just unworth. Like, no, man. Like one guy stands over there and then he comes in and the other guy stands over there. You guys can figure this out. Yeah, but the question is can 37 year old Freddie Anderson plus Tristan Jari plus the reclamation project of Devin Levi, like, can you

find 50 good starts between those guys? I think the answer is more I don't know than you would like it to be. If you have three goals. You know, the classic thing about if you have two goal is you don't have one. What happens if it's three?

Well, but I mean, I feel like we all understand what's going on here, right? They're waiting. They want to make sure Freddie Anderson is healthy and his head's right. And Devin Levy is, seems in, to be in a, ready to be an NHL backup, let's just say. I was trying to figure out how low to set the bar. And as soon as they do that, they fire Tristan Jari into the Mariana trench and we never see them again.

Other than every time we look at their cap and laugh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But, you know, far more likely than not to make the playoffs. So let's move on, I guess, to the little bit of news that actually did happen this week. Brad Marshand, I think it was on Friday, announces, yeah, I was supposed to play in like a tribute game for Zdeno Chara.

I'm not going to do that because I had to have last minute surgery. Instead, I was trying to rehab my issues, and instead, I couldn't. And it was reported it's a hip problem and a sports hernia with a maybe two-month recovery period is what it was kind of speculated in the local press. Yeah, not great for an older guy. It starts in Florida, you know. But also, see, this is where we got to be careful, right? Because last year we're like, ah, they just got to get healthy for the playoffs. That's all they need to do.

They're going to make it, obviously. So they just got to get everybody back. And then we know what happened. But, yeah, I mean, the Panthers are an older team. Got a bunch of guys on very long contracts. Like, this is going to start to be the norm. And honestly, if he is, you know, like, what's the recovery? Like, even if he misses half a season.

Yeah. They should be okay. And if he's healthy in the playoffs, then he's all right. I agree. I agree. It is an inauspicious start to the season for a team where, like, every major player missed 15 to 80 games basically. And like you said, it seems like a lot of these guys are on the old side now that I think about it,

you know? And with how they, I don't know that you could have worse goaltending than they did last year as a team, but with how they fiddled with their goaltending this summer, I don't know that that's going to get hugely better, I suppose, you would say. But it's just, like I said, this is what qualifies as news, is Brad Marchand's going to miss maybe the first 10 games of the season or something like that. As long as Sasha Bark is healthy. I don't know what to tell you.

Put him in a chamber or something. Wrap him in bubble wrap. You're fine. Yep. the other thing to say is, did you see Chris Neal's comments about the Panthers this year? I did not. What is,

where is, first of all, where's Chris Neal commenting? You know, I, I only saw the quote. I didn't see where it came from. But basically he said,

like, here's a question, is Brady Kichuk even in their top six? And I said, Chris, you might be right about this one, my friend. Okay.

Yeah. So, not a bad question. you might be on to something here, but with that having been said, Frayca Chuck is your number three on that side. Yeah. Huh.

I don't think that's exactly like a dunk on the Panthers. Maybe it is on Brickle a little bit, but. That's exactly correct. Yep. This team's a joke. Their third best left wing is perennial all-star. Fuck. shit. I'm in that division. God damn it. But I did think it was a funny thing to bring up.

But hey, while we're speaking of divisions, I saw a really interesting story in the Detroit Free Press over the weekend that I want to talk about here. This is a guy named Carlos Monarez, Monares, maybe, probably Monarez. and he is not a normally a hockey writer. He mostly writes about the tigers and the lions, you know. But he does seem, the way this article was framed, it makes me think he knows a lot of people in the greater illich organization than perhaps just the Red Wings organization, right? And basically he said it's chaos.

At Little Caesar's Arena right now. Let's see, where was that? Well, anyway, chaos is the word used in the article. But basically, he goes on to say that he thinks that the reason Steve Eisenman got fired was that he was not comfortable talking to Chris Illich, who now is the guy who runs the team and has been for several years about his decision-making process vis-a-vis analytics specifically. And that's really interesting to me.

I can't believe we're still doing this. Here's why I can't. Because look, the article did do a lot of this stuff about like, oh, freaking nerds with their spreadsheets are going to be run of the redway? You know, that bullshit. And it's like, man, what fucking year is this? Steve Simmons doesn't even really do that anymore. You can't be writing stuff like that, right?

But I got to find the quote in the article here. Also, a lot of complaining about, like, Elliot Friedman's reporting around this in this article, where it's like, what? Okay, man. But basically, it was something along the lines of, like, Iserman is one of these guys where it's like, well, the stats don't capture everything. And it's like, we all agree, man. Sure. But doesn't it feel like if Steve Iserman is getting fired for that kind of thing?

Like, we're just not, we're not allowed to have 200 hockey men anymore. We've got to be down to low double digits hockey men at this point. At least in terms of the guys who, who are making all the big decisions, right? And it's not just the Eric Tulski thing, where it's like, oh, the guy that used to also just like have a hockey blog or whatever now runs a team and won the Stanley Cup. It's just like, whether you like it or not,

your team is run by business dipships now. And if you're not coming to them as like an AI native and you can put things on a spreadsheet, and go, oh, there's an XG with a cosine and all that kind of stuff. They just don't want to hear from you anymore. It's that simple. Mm-hmm. Isn't that crazy?

Is it, what's your take on the, the Stamco's aspect of this story? Right. So the other thing is, in this article, it kind of says like, Chris Illich has not been the most proactive guy with this team in terms of like getting... Okay, according to a person

with knowledge of the situation, Illich's hesitation in approving big signings cost the wings two big names. Stephen Stamcoast in 2004 and on the day Eisenman's removal was announced, assistant GM Sean Horcoff had a deal in place with Anthony Mantha, but it fell through while Illich deliberated.

My take on that is, how do I want to put this? I don't think you're an Anthony Manta or Stephen Stamco's away from fixing what's fundamentally wrong with this team over the last several years. Nice to get those guys and maybe one of them, you know, maybe Stamco's gets you into the playoffs one of the last two years. But again, like we're doing the Zacharensky thing. Do we think that actually means anything? or do we think it's just getting into the playoffs? But it does mean something

in that Detroit now is a team that not getting into the playoffs is the cloud that hangs over everything. So it's... But I'm saying if the owner is the guy who's saying really we got to spend that much money

on Stamcoast to just make the playoffs? Like is he doing the calculation of his head of does just getting into the playoffs make me enough money to pay out Stephen Stamcoast. Yeah. It's a tough. Now again, I've said it a million times. Sorry to interrupt you, but the other one is the Manta thing where it's like he signed a two-year deal in New Jersey that pays him less than $5 million a year.

So I don't know what the offer in Detroit was, but do we need an owner who is deliberating about signing middle six forwards to, I'm, I'm assuming a relatively bargain deal. Like, good Lord, buddy. Moving along. Well, so Eisenman stepped down on July 15th, right? And when did Manta sign? He signed on the same day. Okay.

So he waited around that long, you know, and isn't that interesting? that he was just like, like you said, you don't want the owner being like, I don't know, 475 for Manta. And frankly, you don't want the owner

making hockey decisions writ large. You want them to shut the fuck up and sign the checks. I've said it a million times. Tell me what my budget is. I will spend to that budget. But. Now, if I have a chance

of Stephen Stamcoast, maybe I'm trying to go above budget and I got to go talk to the owner about that, that's fine. But when Anthony Manta signed, everyone went, oh, crap, that's a great deal for a guy coming off 30-goal season. So what was the deliberation in Detroit? So, again, I think, I think this is Manta, or Manta. This is Illich saying, like, I didn't trust Steve Eiserman at the end.

You know, like, I think the word in the article is vague. He was always vague about what his thinking was on certain things. And again, like, that's the kind of thinking you got when a guy who owned the team since 1971 or whatever the year was. And he's like 80 years old and he's like, yeah, you know, I just have a gut feeling, blah, blah, blah. And the owner nod sagely and signs the check, right? you got to you got to seem to be able to explain what you're thinking is

in a way that again business guys are going to get and Eisenman was just like either unwilling or unable to do that and I you know if you want to say that's a reason the Red Wings are in the position they're in is that Iserman was always vague

about his decision making and wasn't making great decisions regardless, I agree with you. That's probably why. You know? Yep. So it's really, really interesting. I'm just so interested in this article because I want, I really want to know where this came from.

Because like nobody looks good from this article. Usually you can read something and go, okay. I can guess which side this is coming from. It's not always the specific person, but it can be people. close to them or, you know, allies or whatever. This one, it's, it like starts off as like, oh, Eisenman's not an analytic guy, but then it kind of, kind of goes more Iserman. I put it this way.

I think the writer thinks he's taking Steve Iserman's side. I'm not sure if he ultimately is. Yeah, well, okay, so the other thing to say is that this leads off with. When I first heard Detroit Tigers general manager, Jeff Greenberg was in the mix to become the Detroit Red Wings next general manager. or I hated the idea. Okay, well, you know, whatever. I don't care what you think, you know.

You, again, I always say this. When there's a guy who's not usually a hockey writer who comes in and is like, here's what I think about hockey, it's like, tell your story walking, brother. I don't want to hear it, you know. But again, I, this sounds to me like it's somebody within the illich, like the broader illich organization. And for people who don't remember, Jeff Greenberg, was the, I believe, Cubs executive who briefly worked for Chicago Blackhawks and then became the GM of the Tigers as well.

So it's not like he's never met a hockey player or anything like that, right? And my thing with that is, I would have to think that, like, if you're the GM of an MLB team, aren't you like taking a pay cut to become an NHLGM? Yeah. Am I wrong in thinking that? You're going to Detroit, I would imagine you are. Yeah. Well, you're just going across the street, right?

Like literally you are just putting all your stuff in one of those file boxes. But I'm saying like the Red Wings aren't, I could see the Leaves or the Rangers or somebody being like, yeah, we're going to spend a fortune to get the best, get Theo, Epstein or whatever, but not to try. Yeah, it's just, it's really interesting. Like, I have no opinion. I don't know anything about Jeff Greenberg. Like, I don't know what he did in Chicago.

I don't know what he doesn't, you know. The article also gets into the thing of like, I don't know if you know this, but like, analytics work in baseball because it's a complete reset on every batter and pitching change. And it's like, yeah, everybody fucking knows that. Oh, that's an interesting point. The reason it doesn't work at hockey. I've heard it before, you know? So I'm not,

I'm not super dialed in on, on what this particular guy, like, article is trying to sell me. But I don't know, man. To me, I'm just, I'm just going like, the thing about it's chaotic, it's chaotic over there is, is a big problem. And to me, again, I've been stepped down on July 15th.

Okay, it's, August 18th. You don't fucking have anybody signed yet? That's really the thing that I'm concerned about. If I'm a Red Wings fan, is like, how is this taking a month?

You brought on an executive search firm and blah, blah, blah. Like, okay, man, like, don't you have a captain to trade? Don't you have an Alex de Brinket to do something with?

It's crazy to me that this is happening. You would think. Yeah, you would think. One last piece of news here. I don't know how credible this is, but I have seen this aggregated several places. And so I'm just coming to you with what a guy said. This is Paul Shaheen of Research on Ice,

NHL Network Radio contributor, Drive with Jack correspondents covering the Hawks, NHL, NCAA, and junior hockey. So he worked for like serious XM NHL channel or something like that it seems like, right? And this is what he says. This is two nights ago. Word today from reliable sources that Anaheim has offered RFA Cutter-Gotier $13 million at four years,

rejected by Gautier and his agent Kurt Overhart. In the moment, per Puckpedia, the ducks are just over $9 million in salary cap. Suffice it to say, if slash when Gautier signs, the ducks will have to be creative to be at the cap come the start of the season. Again, I haven't heard this from Elliot, Darren Drager, Pierre, like none of the insider guys that I think of. And this is, this is frankly a name that I don't know. Paul Shaheen, I'm not, I'm not saying he's wrong, he's making this up, whatever. I've just never seen him break news before.

Maybe I've missed it a bunch of times in the past. I don't know. But this does kind of make some of my. of sense, I guess you would say, with what the broader kind of feeling about this situation is, where, like, Leo Carlson got $18 million.

And so the... The thing that... A young, really good player, Cutter Gotea just scored 40-something goals in the league last year. The thing that that kind of guy costs is now more in the 18 million range than 13 million. And wouldn't you agree, you know? And so I got to ask the question, Sean.

Are the ducks back to square one on this whole like, no, no, you got to, you got to sign for the number we say? The internal salary structure thing is going to kick them right in the gut because I don't, like, yeah, it might be, but there's nobody, like, who has. what player who is Cutter-Gothier coded has signed a contract for anywhere north of 13 million? Like there's no

I get it if the like the argument against the ducks has been like they push back even on precedent. Like you could point to a comparable player and say he got this much, I want that much. And they nickel and dime you and drive you down. I don't see that. happening here. Like Connor Bedard took 15 million and an extra year. Four times 13 for Kudogothier is not an unreasonable offer. Now, I get why he and his agent might say, no,

we're going to play a little hard ball here. We can squeeze a bit more. And it's all part of the game. And as long as you're not missing time or whatever, it's, it's fun. Yeah, it's August 18th. You can do that. But it's, you know, that's, I don't think Patford Beaks being unreasonable if that's the offer that's out there. I just, I guess what I'm saying is I think that in a world with Leo Carlson getting that money and, uh, uh, Maclin Celebrini getting the money he got, and I'm not saying Gautier is as good as Maclean Celebrini by any stretch of the imagination. But what I am saying is if it worked for,

for, for, uh, for those guys to kind of go, yeah, that's a nice offer, but like, I'd actually like a good one instead of a nice one.

You can, you can see where, where Gote's coming from. Like, if it's, oh, yeah, yeah, four years. That sounds great. It's 15.

It's not 13. Because where the cap's going to be four years from now and I want to reset, you know, before, blah, blah, blah. This is like,

or maybe he wants to get because what's his what's his UFA year he might want to Is he getting walk to UFA is the other question He might want to do that

Let me have a look and see where his UFA year is if it's going to show me I don't think it is But him not even being Offer sheet eligible is kind of what's the whole problem here for him

because he can't go to one of the 10 teams that has 15, it's not 10, it's probably like four or five, 15 million in cap space and go, you want to give me that instead of them? Because that would be, that would be great. I could come play for you and you would give me a lot of money to do. So yeah, it's, it's a little, it's a little tricky for him.

I don't know what the, uh, what the story would be there, but. I mean, he's played two years. So I'm assuming he's five years to UFA. Yeah. So I could see, like, if that's it, if the ducks are saying, no, it's got to be four. Right, because we want the one more. And he wants five. That makes, that makes all the sense in the world to me.

But. And especially because the longer contract means the Aavs goes up. Yeah. So, yeah, that's, I thought that was pretty interesting. obviously we'll see we just again that's what passes for news as a guy said something

might be true and I was like let's talk about it for 10 minutes you know but I guess that's it that's the whole show you got any plug show not really

oh okay great I do I have many you can head over to perfect takes dot beehive.com and read all my takes about all kinds of stuff including the Eisenman thing

including I just wrote about I can't believe I did this I was so moved by a professional wrestling match on Sunday morning that I was like I got to write about this and what it means to me Oh wow It

I Yeah I will have to check that out I'm assuming it was the Latest WWE Absolutely brother I mean I'll text it to you right now

It's the G1 final in New Japan for a wrestling. Their big annual tournament. Okay. The final was the most incredible fucking thing I've seen in years in professional wrestling. Amazing stuff. And you don't need to know anything about any of it.

Just watch the match and the story they tell in this match is fucking incredible. Anyway, I got that. I am in the midst of, because of the mailbag, I am now doing a top 100 Simpsons episodes for me personally ranking that I'm in the

middle of, I think I'm up through 51 right now. And then like 50 to 30s later this week, if I'm remembering the cadence correctly. And, you know, again, all just my hockey takes throughout the week are there. And then you can go to the hockey news and read all my stuff there as well. I'm writing roughly one article a day, sometimes more than that. So, you know, pretty consistent flow there. And then for me and Sean, Patreon. dot com slash puck soup all kinds of bonus episodes over there

Sean and I watched last week we watched a a movie that's just on YouTube you can watch it called the deadliest season and it's a made for TV movie from the 70s about a guy who accidentally kills one of his opponents in an NHL game and this movie is noteworthy because Merrill Streep it's like one of her first big roles in anything and she plays

plays the wife of the alleged murderer. A surprisingly good. It was pretty fucking good. I have to say. Yeah. Even if you don't want to listen to the, you can watch the movie on YouTube. It's pretty good.

So I would say check that out as well. And I guess that's it. Thank you for listening. And we'll be back next week with the Patreon only show. because there's so little going on. And that's just more reason to go sign up for the Patreon, in my opinion. Thank you for listening. And we'll talk to you in a couple of weeks on the main show.

Bye-bye.