Real Kyper & Bourne - Leafs Hour: Gearing Up for Game 5 with Wendel Clark

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

Nick Kypreos, Justin Bourne and Sam McKee look ahead to tonight's Game 5 between the Maple Leafs and Florida Panthers in Toronto. They outline the stakes of the game with the second-round series tied 2-2 and bigger-picture consequences if the Leafs win or lose the series. Then, they get into the potential lineup changes for each team, how Craig Berube can help free up Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews and much more. Later, Leafs legend Wendel Clark joins the show (33:45) to discuss the team's keys to victory in Game 5, how physical play evolves through the playoffs and Matthew Knies' evolution.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

What seemed like an eternity at least for our show anyways the Toronto Maple Leafs get a game day we get a game day on the real kipper and born show welcome aboard it's our leaf hour edition we are live on sportsnet 590 the fans sportsnet 360 and sportsnet plus Nick Kiprios Justin Bourne Sammy McK Sammy Mckee, Derek Brandeo, Jake the Snake Schultz with you the next two hours. We'll get a little Wendell Clark Toronto Maple Leaf legend in about 30 minutes. Top of the hour when we go national Blake Wheeler who's done a nice job on Hockey Night in Canada. He'll join us as well and Jason Bucola, pro hockey group and Sportsnet of course, former NHL scout, will take us home. In the

meantime, we are set for a game five for the Toronto Maple Leafs. The last 20 years, game fives have not been kind to No to the Toronto Maple Leafs one and five Game fives at home at home At home two of them overtime losses to Florida in 2023 the Montreal Canadiens in 2021 All right

Do we start with Sammy or do we just go to you first? No, Sammy. What do you want to know? Vibes. Energy. I think, you know, a lot of people have asked me today how I'm feeling. Yeah. Like a lot. Yeah. Like every weird amount. Everyone upstairs, everybody I run into, texts, you know, and I haven't been able to answer. I think, I'm feeling it. I'm feeling. I actually, since our show started like two minutes ago, I got a little nervous.

I'm definitely uneasy. There's a uncertainty clearly, but like, listen boys, this is why we slug through November and December and do games on a Tuesday night in February against the Flyers. This is why you slug through it to get to game five of the second round, two-two against the defending Stanley Cup champions.

This is what you do it for, boy. Now go live to Herb Brooks. Tonight's the night. I get that, and it's something that you could say year after year about certain games in the playoffs this one has a much bigger dynamic for me okay yeah and outside of maybe maybe the biggest game of the franchise's Last 25 years quarter of a century biggest game really in the last 25 years for me and it's it's more than just Winning or losing it's the potential of what a loss means

Moving forward can they win two in a row? Do they win or lose the series? I'm starting to get into Implications if they lose if they lose the series what things look like after that That's that's where I'm going with this shocker with this game tonight. That's what you're good. What if they lose? Yeah, what if they win? Okay? Yeah, great. Yeah, great, but but what if they lose? game five game six game seven now on like Fork in the Road kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Not just for the series, but potentially what this could look like

for the next 10 years out of the Toronto Maple Leafs. That's why I'm a little. I'm feeling it. Put it that way. It's massive. But what you're talking about is Mitch Martin in that. I'm saying. No, no, no. I'm going bigger than that. Okay. Bigger. Like you think the people making decisions could be involved. Brendan Shanahan. If you lose in round two to the defending cup champions, you think that's considered bad failure? Yeah. Yeah. What about game seven? What about if it's game seven in overtime?

If, if, if you asked me two years ago, when they lost to them in the second round, you had two years to get ready to play them and beat them. You got to get past them. JB. There's no if, ands or buts that they have to get past Florida to continue the belief that this is trending in the right direction. If it doesn't, then it's time to completely look in the mirror. I have thoughts on what that domino could look like, if all of a sudden things were

different up top and who would want to not keep Marner and yada yada. But I think the point is that you have massive implications for failure and massive implications with success here. Okay, so let's just... Okay, before we get into big picture stuff, where are you tonight? To me, it's a must win. I don't see them losing tonight and winning two in a row. So you tell me, is tonight a must win? Is it not a must win? Can you still see them losing tonight and winning the series? Well, I can. I think game five of a second round Stanley Cup playoff game where it's tied to two, it's

pretty close to a must win. Yeah. That you want to win the game, but you're not out of the series. You still have a chance to win a clue. They may not win two in a row, but they won two in a row to start the series. Like, listen, it's a massive game. I understand that. Yes or no question. Yes. OK, they lose tonight.

You're telling me they could still win the series. Yeah. OK. I don't have that. Yeah, but he could be right. And I, of course, I'm on that. But I think it's safe to say that you don't want to find out. You'd rather not go down that path. It is, there is a lot hanging in the balance. A lot through the Shanahan era, a lot of disappointments through the Marner, Matthews, Tavares, Nylander era. Everybody

waits for the big game for them to get over the hump. To me this is the big one. This is the one that could maybe cancel the regrettable loss in game three. You chalk that up at all to them losing their starting goalie? Would you be able to give them a pass at all? The Leafs go, ah, well, you know, Stolar has got knocked out? No. No, no, no. I think, I think Wall gave you a chance to win last game. I'm betting that he'll give him another great chance to win tonight. So I exclude the, the goaltending issues moving forward here. All right. Well, so I think there are two separate conversations and the big picture stuff is definitely one but you know, I I

think like You represent a sort of part of the leaf fandom where I think people are You can never really just talk about the game You always have to zoom out with the market conversations and what happens after this and that's kind of been a thing with this Whole air of hockey like unity the chemistry Gil is it you know, is this the last year a last dance kind of thing and it's felt like that for four years Right where it's been like all if they lose here The coach has gone Marner's gone. Nelander's gone, the president's gone,

whatever's gone. But I think to your point, for the first time, this might actually be the last dance. This might actually be the time. I don't even think that was debatable. But we debated Kipper after every time they lost that nobody would be back. And that's on ownership, whatever that meant meant when it was Bell and Rogers above and that was their decision I don't think

that they could they could keep status quo if they find a way to lose this series so I mean again I don't maybe way too early to even be talking about this, but just to bring it back, that's based on me, the results of as early as tonight. To dictate all of that. A great hockey analyst I once knew, once said to me about these sort of games, I gotta see how it looks.

That's you by the way. I gotta see how it looks. How do they, do they go down like mice without a fight? Did they are these great games where they're banging and at the net and they're going over time? It got to see how it looks but I'm past that okay at this stage with this group and The decision makers and their roster and the key guys involved you can only You only have one last crack at seeing how it looks. Like if they go down with a fight, let's all bring them back and try again next year. No, that's not happening.

We know that. And by the way, we know that one major player is out there that in all probability if they lose, Mitch Marner will not come back. So that alone will give it a different look for sure, but there might have to be more decisions made beyond just what the Leafs will look like next year if Marner's not back. Can we talk about,

so we've talked about what would happen if they lose tonight. Yeah. What happens if they win tonight? Love that? Yeah Yeah, I think I'm not sure anybody's gonna win two in a row here So I think it gives them the best chance to win the series tonight and bring it back home for game seven But if wall can go down there again With a chance to close it out. There's also the possibility but For me, it's it's almost a guaranteed seven. I don't see any team winning two in a row in this best of three.

Yeah, you know, it's the best period the Leafs have played. I think we said this season at one point was game two first period where that was they came out on the front foot. They came and they hit and they had the puck and they had the chances. They had the lead and they had the chances. They had the lead. And, you know, from then on, Florida, they basically battened down the hatches and Florida did their whole storm thing, didn't quite get back.

But I don't think anything less than that effort. And now the other piece that let me finish that. I don't think anything less than that effort is going to be good enough tonight. The other piece of that is that Florida has a say, as we've said before, and this is a good hockey team. This team in these spots over the past two playoff runs has been, I don't want to say unbeatable, but as tight defensively, as hard to get through, as good as any team we've seen,

which is why I think it's going to be low scoring. And I know we have some, Maurice, but he's confident heading into tonight, right? Like, yeah. Yeah. Can we do clip nine or four there on his team heading into tonight? Absolutely. We can. Let's do that. Paul Marie's clip four.

This is where we're supposed to be. This is the setup is exactly the, the ranger game. We were down in the series, back went into New York. It's that harvesting that excitement about it right that's kind of how we're moving around each other today. They've been here before right there the experienced team who should feel like they know that we can win these games. And this is what they did in he's talking about the conference finals last year where the Rangers win both the games, the first two games, then they tie it and then it's

same situation where they won four in a row. And does, you got a Craig Bruby that is a comparable or do we just have that discussion on what he would be telling his group? On his team's mindset? Sure, let's do that. It's very simple. Team two, clip two please. Good, just normal throughout the playoffs, business like ready to go.

Looking forward to the challenge tonight. Excited to play. Thought our practice was really good yesterday. Guys are in a great frame of mind and we understand what type of game it's going to be and got to go out and execute. How awesome. God, I hope he's more motivating than that for the guys inside the room. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like that it's like, you know, it's not panic or, we never at their best. You know, it's like, there's a time where you can ramp it up a little bit and all that. Yeah. And I hope it kind of revolves around boys, like every punch in the mouth that we've had

the last eight years was built so we could win tonight's game. Every heartache, every miserable milk carton picture you saw of yourself or your teammate over the years was to get to this point to get us over the hump. This is ours tonight. It's it's not theirs. Sir Brooks said they had their chance, they had their opportunities. It's our turn now. And that's the buildup. The buildup is that they've gone through a lot here to get to this point once again,

and it's not going to be a lost opportunity. They have suffered the slings and arrows. These guys have been through it. And yeah, you hope it's like, okay, you know, you got a fresh chance against a good team on home ice. This is an opportunity. Can I ask you about what you just said there though, Kip? Like he's been so hesitant to even mention years past where like I wasn't here, I don't really know.

Like do you think he's actually gonna bring that up before game five like hey remember all the times that you guys Exact spot don't choke this time chokers There's ways of Harnessing that energy It's the obvious it's stating the obvious Sammy and I don't even think he needed to be here Harnessing that energy. It's the obvious. It's stating the obvious, Sammy, and I don't even think he needed to be here.

Yeah, I know. I'm just saying. You inherit it, to be honest with you. But it's not about focusing on the past failures. It's what did you learn to get to this point? That's all you need to, and I'm sure either Barube's done it, maybe Brendan Shanahan's done it,

somebody, a psychologist that they work with, I don't know. But there has to be a feeling of, we went through it because we were supposed to go through it the last eight years, and now is our moment. Those were life lessons, there were hockey lessons, sports lessons, call it whatever you want, but it's to get to this point so we can get over

and move forward here. And that's the belief that they have to have going into these last two games. How much though do you think it's on the coach? Like how much does a coach need to say? So you won the Calder Cup as well, right? I did. Calder Cup in junior you guys had some success I presume. Lost game seven in a final. Sorry to bring that up. Whoopsies. The Jennys. Gotcha. But you've been through these moments, you've been at the practice, you've been at the rink. I had won titles at different

levels. You know, you know, you can feel it. It's different at the rink at the day at Maury skate. It's a, there's a different energy. You know, it's not really a spot you need the coach or the, I understand that he's going to want to come in and give you a couple of words or whatever, but this, I don't feel like it needs a raw, raw spot. It's such an individual thing. It's nice though. If, though if if you have someone either a leader in the room or A coach or something. I'm telling you it works. There's It depends on on on how it's presented the choice words It can work JB. No matter matter how long you've been around or

how experienced that you are, it is really nice and comforting to lean up to somebody and say, you know what, I believe you. Yes, I believe you. Even if I had to see the doubt, you're making me feel better. You are capturing this moment better than what's going on in my head. And instead of overthinking, I'll just listen to you. I'll just follow you. I'll just listen. And it's true leadership. And it can come from management. It can come from a few players in the room.

It can come up unexpectedly. I don't know. Does Benoit come up and motivate guys today and say, hey, listen, you know what? The next one, the next one against Sam Reinhardt, boys, he ain't getting up. And you're like, oh man, that guy's ready to play. I better be ready to play too. He's ready.

The one thing I do believe with this team is a lot of what you're saying is, I believe you, I trust you, that vibe that I believe that the success we've built here over this season is real. And I think that they do. And I think a lot of that is Craig Berube and the tone and the, you know, they just can trust that they're good. It's got to be real though.

It can't be like phony. It can't be... It can't be by someone that you don't necessarily trust. You don't need Bobby McMahon to even Al Pacino speech pregame. I think a game like tonight... You might pop a woman in tonight there, man. Hey Bobby, shoot it in. I think a game like tonight can show us how close they are together

Yeah, and I think at times in the past eight tries that they've been in the playoffs they haven't presented as a Close-knit team that at times they told us they were because that is the proof in the pudding It's not what you say in the room. Oh, we're really close. We're tight. We go to movies together we you know we Go out for dinners on the road. No, no No This on the ice is where you show how close you are together because there are still times when

together because there are still times when Domi goes and hit Barkov you see four or five guys like a pack of wolves right like Florida shows all the time how close they are okay and not a lot of team Tampa we've seen Tampa at times they're Stanley Cup champions though boys and I'm not saying the Leafs have to go all five of them and go, you know, in a scrum constantly, but you can tell teams that are close. And tonight they have an opportunity to show everybody how close of a team they are. Yeah, you know the other side of that, not to pour any water on it, but just like, you know, the Vancouver Canucks when they're winning a lot of games and

they're bad, they don't gel in the room, but you win, everyone gets along. You win some games, you score a couple of goals. It's a lot easier for everyone to get along. This Panthers team is still a 22 and oh, when they're leading after the first and 15 and oh, and they're leading after the second or flip that whichever, you know, like my point is the start matters. Everyone's energy belief in each other, all that they need a good first period, ideally the first goal, and then I'm going to feel really good about things. But until they have that boy and to your point about the

sticking out like they are way better this year than they've ever been in terms of sticking up for each other and being in scrums like there's no comparison. I can't wait to talk to Wendell about that because he would know that better than anybody. And they've really, they've showed much more willingness to get into scrums and stick up for each other. But listen, it's hard to compare anybody to Florida

because what they have is unique, what they've built and what they're being able to do. They're a greasy bunch of rats that love fighting for each other and will do whatever it takes and at least need to get there So it's tough to play what everyone universally believes to be the best playoff built team in Florida They're built for this but what excites you about that the Leafs can hang The Leafs have been able to hang they've been in all the games except game four where they were it was a one-goal game But it never really felt like it was a one goal game or long stretches.

What makes you excited about being a Leaf fan? What makes you excited about this? If you could ever find a way to get through this, if you could ever find a way to win two of the next three games, you really start dreaming. Whoever you play next year, like we know we can play tough. I mean, like Carolina is a great team like we know we can play, we play a tougher team than this. Carolina is a great team and they're up three one, right? Like, listen, the Western Conference, if you ever got to the final, that's a different story. Both those teams, any of the teams that come out of there

will be excellent. You don't know what it's gonna look like four weeks from now. That's what I mean. Who's in, who's out, who's hurt, who's not. By then those teams could be a shell of themselves. I get it. Brandon and Twis is his knee and Dallas is.

To your point, right? To your point about Florida and sticking up for themselves and look like the least can just find a little bit of that. And these next few games and get by them and correct. Then, then, then there'll be some real conversations. Sam, this is the answer to the question that you started this off with. What happens if they win? It's that they're suddenly the team that took down the Stanley Cup champions that feels like they can handle any amount of physicality that a team wants to bring that has proven they can go through the muck and come out the other side. All of a sudden you're going, yeah, all of a sudden you believe.

Fork in the road tonight. So the swing for tonight. Fork in the road. Or the next couple of games anyway. Fork in the road. It's easy. They can win a game seven on home ice against Florida Panthers. Hoo boy. Lineup decisions. We talked about those the last few days.

I want to go to Craig Bruby before we discuss. The first one is so funny. Okay, clip one on lineup changes. Game time decisions. We got decisions. So it was an optional skate this morning and we got some decisions to make. Can't off the ice this morning? Yep, just an optional skate game time decision. So you either go out, they don't go out and we'll make decisions at game time. Okay, now let's spin it right to Paul Maurice who's also talking about making changes to his lineup, Clip1. The advantage to having him come in is he can play all three forward positions which gives us some

options on either Nozick returning to the left wing with Barkov and Reinhardt like we did the last 15 minutes of the third. I can move him over to the right as well. So there's lots of versatility there for us. He's got some experience. And when we bring guys in from the outside, they've had big impacts for us. They've been critical. I think a part of that is they're never really on the outside, right?

They're all part of the chirping and the practicing and all the things that go on. They feel like they're a part of it. So everybody's pretty excited for him. and all the things that go on, they feel like they're a part of it. So everybody's pretty excited for him. Big, big, big change of philosophy in terms of deep roster or making changes

and feeling that energy. Paul Maurice is, he's coming off a huge win and he's changing his lineup. Well, I mean. Rodriguez is out. Yeah, Rodriguez is out. So Bokefist is going. Do we think Rodriguez is just out because they want him out

Like he hasn't oh, I didn't know. Yeah, he's not playing. He's not oh some damage was done. Yeah Well, yes, or no, you know, I think he was that morning skate today. They had a long conversation They're seen talking on the ice. So nine games played no goals three assists dash two for Rodriguez You know, he feels like one of their guys He's uh, he plays up and down the lineup like I don't know I would be surprised if he was a healthy scratch I also would be surprised he's out the scratch. In fact, he only say even at some of these guys are at 60 or 70 percent And they're playing yeah, but maybe Rodriguez

Go, I think to two it's a it's a reset for him He'll go he'll go right back to him in game six. Of course. He will right? Of course. Yeah. Yeah, so Bokevist is a guy that when he's in they used him 403 I think the last game he played yeah, and I noticed him once he was fast and they're like now we don't need him So what do we think? Leafs on changes. Yeah, how I Don't much would you push right now if you're part of that coaching? Staff, JB. Yeah, I got yard.

Yarncroc, I push really hard. Yarncroc out, camp in. Camp can take his spot on the PK, which is pretty much all Yarncroc's value at this point, longer defense. I don't think that's a tough decision. You're not giving up any offense. You know, you're on crack, no longer shoots it in the net. I think I'm sold on that's a tough decision. You're not giving up any offense. You know, you're on crack no longer shoots it in the net I think I'm sold on that. Okay, I think you're doing camp has Three or four more playoff goals and yarn crap. Is that right? Yeah, so like he's at least he might whack one in or something

Robertson I that's a lie. I don't think Robertson comes in I think Coach Berube likes the big boys in a big series. You're like praying a Bobby McMahon who looks like a 20, 25 goal scorer shows up tonight. Yeah. Hopefully a couple of days rest, right? Like a little more pop at the legs. I also wouldn't hate seeing him get a little more opportunity. Like could he not play beside Tavarez and Nylander tonight?

And Patcheretti can kind of, Patch is not... I wouldn't hesitate on a lot of different looks. Yeah, you wouldn't mind seeing a little shuffle? I'd even like to see Mitch Marner play with Steve Lawrence on a few shifts, you know? Yeah. Honestly. Yes.

Okay, I'm on board with that. Get those guys away from the matchups. Just double shift them. Go out there and just move them around and have different looks. It's funny that Perubi just likes what they do and he doesn't seem to want to play with it too much. Those are called adjustments. Those are, I guess you can watch how it, how it looks in the first 10 minutes, 12 minutes, a period. But if it's not looking, great. You got to free up some of these guys. So much has been made out of Marner and Matthews

not getting any shots on goal. And I get it. But I mean, Mitch Marner plays the point on the power play. What are the odds of him getting a shot on goal out there? I don't know. I'm not gonna excuse the way Mitch Hars. No, I'm not, but I'm just telling you. It is tight out there. Yeah, they're good penalty kill. He doesn't have a booming shot. So like you gotta give him other opportunities

to mix and match and free these guys up. Yeah, there's no doubt. You can get your guys away from good D. I would take that advantage every time. We have Berube on both what you're looking for from the bottom six and Robertson. Any recommendation there? I mean, Chris Johnson asked Berube today basically,

like would you want to test the scratch and score theory here basically? Like would you like to put him in? So he answered the question here. On Nick Robertson. On Nick Robertson, Clip 7. Yeah, I don't know, it does, I guess. You know, you think about it and you go,

well, he was out for a couple games and he came in and scored one or two. He's pretty good at that. But it does, but it doesn't. It just, you know, it depends on what we need and What we think is gonna help the team Is there any decisions? Is there any chance he thinks speed is something they need like Robertson can get up and go does it I

Think he plays you do. I do I do I Don't know. I don't know. Maybe I wouldn't hate it's a hunch of a coach's hunch. I wouldn't hate it I wouldn't I I think he might be placed tonight So then would you have Holmberg or who who comes out? I guess I don't know I don't know if I want to get hard when you start to that homework still King He's been playing last every game. You can still get in on a four-check. You can still protect a puck pretty well down low plus penalties He can still get in on a four-check. He can still protect a puck pretty well down low, but his penalties It'd be a gutsy call to put Nick Robertson in and I'm not saying that I would really hate it. Mm-hmm You know, I just don't want him to take a penalty. Oh my god

Yeah, if he's in he can't he can't do anything if he ices it takes a penalty We're gonna light him up like it, it would have to be a, but they, I mean, Berube's pay, getting paid millions to make these tough decisions. You know what I've learned and I love getting the chance to say this. So my, uh, my dad coached, uh, after his playing days in Utah and the IHL, and I used to go down and spend time in the coaches rooms. And then I was on staff there with Sheldon, whatever, and in those coaches rooms making these decisions.

And what it comes down to, all the analytics you see, everything, is some guys looking at each other going, what do you think? That's all it is. You know, they don't have the secret sauce. They're not looking through this like NASA, sorry, go beep, boop, boop, oh, and he's in, here's what we'll do.

They're going, I don't know, do you think you? I told you that. What's your hunch? There's like four or five guys with a voice in the room, and he's in here's what we'll do. They're going. I don't know you think you I told you What's your hunch? There's like four or five guys in the voice in the room. It's like, what do you think? I told you that story about Keenan, Coley Campbell and Dick Todd coach and two assistant coaches and It was like who do you think should start and they were actually so scared to go first and say it Yeah, that he made them write it down on a piece of paper scared to go first and say it. Yeah.

That he made them write it down on a piece of paper. Yeah. Right down on a piece of paper. Yeah. Slide it over. Slide it over. Yeah. And then you know what happened?

They all picked Mike Richter and then Keenan started Glenn Healy. Wow. That's how it's. That's a real Keenan. That's how crazy Keenan was. Yeah. Hey, you know, I was the video coach, video coach so my voice was worth half a voice. I had to be real sure before I'd be like, I'd start.

You really had to have a backup for your opinion. Terrifying. I'm going to start off with, you're a complete moron if you do this. Yeah, yeah. No, I wouldn't leave with any of that. Also, Ruben got asked about a potential stole arts decision. Oh cool.

So, clip five. Yeah, no, it'll be tough. I mean, you know, I'm not really thinking about that yet. You know, that's not there yet. So, we'll see how everything goes and where he's at and when he gets there and where we're at as a team and our goalies, you know, like like it's not something I'm really thinking about right now. Yeah in other words if we lose Stolars is playing game six if we win

I don't have to answer that question again for another night. So again this is actually not a challenging question. So you think he do you have any knowledge or anything that he could play? Stolars? Yeah. I would think if, if wall finds a way to lose on a, if he mishandles the puck behind the net. Buddy, if they lose one, nothing, Stolars is ready. They might be like, we just have to go back. I don't know. Yeah. I'm with JB on that one that it would be stoley we need you. Wow. Yeah.

You got Walls got to win tonight. Winning your in. How's that? Pretty good. Pretty good. Okay. Anything else? Barkov, Matthew's not scoring.

What do you want? Actually, let's do Maurice the clip three on Matthew's not scoring. Before the series started, Paul, if someone were to tell you that he'd be going into game five and Austin Matthews wouldn't have a goal, what would you say? What's the series at? What's the series at? Yona Gajovic scored that goal. We didn't take it from him and give him to Barkov. Nobody cares. Great question, Luke. And his snappy retort. Way better answer. Walked right into that one, eh?

We do not care. We're trying to win hockey games. Nobody cares. That, to my point yesterday We're talking about Matthews whatever like if they win the next two games and Matthews has no points 43 shot blocks. I do not care. I just it doesn't and then it's just like a Reset going into a conference final right against the canes it's no different than a Average or right? It's no different than a average or below average regular season.

It's like game one in the playoffs, everybody starts fresh. That's what a conference final would do to Auston Matthews. And funny enough, like him and Marner, because they had a couple of big early games in that Ottawa series, like their points per game are fine. So they'd get through it feeling like their points are okay. And then, yeah, and again, I lighted up Connor McDavid. I last time I checked what three goals in what 10 11 games. I can mean there's also there.

There's a lot of really good hockey players. It's it's tough out there, man. It is. There's no room. You're not you're not playing Anaheim and that's why he's paid the most in the league to get through the tough parts All right, true. All right, let's break point. We'll get to uh, we'll get to Wendell. Okay As we said Toronto Maple Leaf legend Wendell Clark will help us tee up

Game five tonight Toronto Maple Leafs in the Florida Panthers. It's a real kipper and born show. Don't go away Tonight, Toronto Maple Leafs and the Florida Panthers. It's a real Kipper and Bourne show, don't go away. Everything you need to know about the Blue Jays, Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. ["The Blue Jays Theme Song"] Welcome back to the real Kipper and Bourne show. Leaf Hour edition.

Toronto Maple Leafs and the Panthers. Critical game five at Scotiabank Arena. Seven o'clock. Sportsnet. CBC. In a few minutes we'll grab Wendell. Okay, not in a few moments. Right now. The legend

himself Toronto Maple Leaf Wendell Clark. Hey Clarkie how are you pal? We're good pal I take it you're on your way to the rink here you know I've known you as a teammate one of a few seasons 12 and all for you in the Toronto Maple Leafs, I don't know, maybe 80 games in the playoffs. Clarky, is there a chance, you know, you're still a little nervous about a game all these years later? Now it's a good nervous.

This is fun stuff, but it's, you know, the fans may be more nervous, but this is, we're in the middle of a series. The Stanley Cup champions aren't gonna roll over. They don't know how to play, so we're in a series and we're tied two-two, I think things are great. I imagine you talk to a lot of people and they say, you know, Wendell, how you feeling about things?

How do you handicap the next couple of games? What do you expect we'll see? What do you think has to happen here for the Leafs? Well, we just have to believe in each other This is it you know the teams that have gone long in the playoffs for a lot of years Which is Florida has you know? They know how to play and be patient and there's going to be ups and downs in a series And this is our learning curve in the second round learning to be, trust the system that the coach has in you, trust each other,

and trust that you know everything will work out, whether it's a one-nothing game or a six-five game, this is where our team has to believe in themselves that they can do it. There's no reason they can't do it, but you have to keep that trust. You can't step outside the box and try home run stuff because then it'll blow up.

You just have to have that confidence in your group that just stay the course and things will work. Clarkie, all season long, you know, the narrative around this team is it feels different, it looks different. Can you compare the makeup of this roster compared to the years past that you've seen and the hiccups that they've gone through and why they seem a little bit more prepared to get over the hump of a big game like tonight?

Well, I think they played the whole season like they didn't have to change the system for the playoffs. They played the whole season like they're they didn't have to change the system for the playoffs They played the whole year the way they're playing right now I think we're as confident to win a one nothing or two one hockey game in the regular season As we are now and and you know, you have the horses if they get some goals and the pucks bounce in the right way We can do it that way But I think we have a confidence to play in a game that's one nothing and we don't care who scores that goal in our lineup.

And that's where you have to be in the playoffs is it might be the fourth line guy is the biggest goal winner in the game. You just don't know how it works out in the playoffs. If the other team checks the way they're supposed to check, then your big guys aren't going to get points. And that's just the way they're supposed to check, then your big guys aren't gonna get points. And that's just the way it is. You just have to rely on as a team, it's a team game to win.

And you have to rely that by the end of the 60 minutes or over time, your team's gonna be better than the other one. When does the, does the physicality change throughout a series? Like as you get into game five, six and and seven here is all sort of the tone setting and glass rattling done or how much I guess how does the physicality changes you get deeper into a series Well, I think the first round has its own physicality. That's always in all playoff rounds that first round is a

Is so physical, but then every round gets more More team-oriented, more in position, it's not always about the running around, but you still have to have physical play, you still have to finish your checks, you still have to keep the other team honest, but you're not going out of the way because in a nothing, nothing game, you don't need the four minutes for charging in today's game kind of thing, which might happen if it's that out of it. So I always find the farther you went in playoffs, everything become more and more organized on both sides.

Everybody was just doing the right job, the right thing, which at the end of the day, in most instances, the game gets more boring because everybody is doing. So if there's no mistakes, as a fan, it's actually boring because there's no two-on-ones, there's no breakaways, there's no outnumbered chances because everybody's playing good on both sides. And that's sometimes not as exciting, but you have to be that patient to wait for a breakdown. That's, and the team that can be the most patient wait for the right breakdowns

and then capitalize on whatever chances because there might be a lot of shots, but they're from the outside. They're low risk shots. We're giving guys chances in low risk areas and that that's okay just not in the slot with one-timers you don't want to be giving up that stuff you are listening to former captain Toronto Maple Leaf legend Wendell Clark so Clark if we go back to 1993 and one of the more memorable Stanley Cup

moments in recent leaf history is you my friend and Marty McSorley and can you take us back to a little bit of the build-up and and how and why that fight happened and could you see any scenario at all between the Leafs in Florida tonight where that could be called upon if someone felt it was needed? Well, no, the whole scenario, if it was needed, but depending on the player that did it and to whom he did it to, and you'd have to wonder whether the guy is gonna respond. And the games changed a lot. So somebody finishes

their check today. A lot of times they don't own up to what they did. So Marty always being a player that's going to own up, he knew they were going to lose that game. So he went out of the way to do something to wake his team up and let us know that he's the they're ready to play. And basically we, we, we couldn't allow him to do that to our best player. You know, Doug, he's the guy that stirs our drink. He was the best player in the league that at that time is that what he did that year for our team. So he, you know, so that I'm pretty much knew Marty was going to stick up for himself while I was coming. And so that's's you know, that's the excitement and Marty and I had had he was my first two fights ever in the NHL

And the exhibition season he was I think he forgot I got drafted first overall that I wasn't trying out for the big daddy spot on defense So he Didn't like me from the get-go. So that's what running around gets you. But that, it was all in fun. And then that just raised the temperature of the series and everything that was going on. And then that was it.

That was an exciting series. We just didn't have to end up on the right side of it. I think there's a few Toronto Maple Leaf fans old enough to have watched Kulikov take a healthy run at Marner with his elbow to the head and wonder what a Wendell Clark as a linemate would have done to Kulikov at that moment. Well, you never know. Every situation is different. Just saying, Clarky. different. Every situation, I got to walk the fence here. Every situation is different, but now I like the way the guys are played and how they're playing. And then like you say, you've, you've, you've earned the right to have the home games now for the series, best of three by, by finishing first.

So now we have to look after ourselves and either do it the easier way and then win tonight or do it the harder way and and and fight right till the end. But you have a great team in Florida that you know they've been to the Cubs so they understand the situations they're in. But I really do think we are a good enough team to learn and battle and win. So when you're watching this team like something that stands out for When you played like you're a physical player, but you were a player right you're on the ice You're in there in the big moments and contributing offensively I look around the league Tom Wilson is someone who does that Matthew Nises

Maybe the closest thing the Leafs have to that a guy who could be physically dominant and go toe-to-toe with someone But still score goals. Where do you think he is in his evolution, particularly as a playoff performer for the Leafs? I think Matthew is scratching the surface of how good he can be in the playoffs. I think Craig as a coach has been wonderful for him to get to. Basically the Western Canadian, North American style chirping in his ear on the bench. And because he has such a makeup of playing North and South

and finishing your checks, and then he's got a great set of hands that he can score. So I think as he understands for himself, if he figures it, really figures it out, teach him how to not to be, or teach him how to have no friends for 18 minutes every second night. And that's no friends for 18 minutes. After that, you can be the nicest guy in the world. But for 18 minutes, no friends.

Kip just wrote down no friends as like a note he was once trying to remember. And because he is he's really and I really think it's the coaching that's that's that's changed and you grew up in Arizona. Everything is kind of their style hockey and everything Matthew's being your idol probably growing up. So that's the style but in his makeup. He is a power forward that can really like just with size and

makeup and and then he gets to feed off the talent and the talent gets to feed off him like they they get more room the the the way he when he's playing really well. Great feeling this time of year. Clark E must bring back great memories for you playoff hockey. Yeah no this is as you guys know, the only hockey you miss is this time of year. I don't miss training camp, you don't miss the grind in the middle of the season, but this time of year for all us old guys, this is the fun stuff for the players. And it's all the butterflies and nerves that you get as a player, that's the fun part. That's why you play the game and to be in situations with fans at home that love you

and then fans on the road that hate you. And it's so fun as a player to be in these loved buildings and hated buildings. And you don't take a stick to the head, an elbow to the chops and, and, and have a lamp chop for me in the alumni room. Hey, well, hopefully, hopefully, I always go for the chicken fingers, eh? There you go. That's kinda key for simple.

The alumni box, don't change my diet. No, no, no, no, you're just a simple. Don't be Gary Roberts, all right, Kip? Just a simple farmer. Yeah, that's it. All right, Clarky, have a great time tonight. Really appreciate you coming on our show. Thanks. Okay. Thank you Toronto Maple Leaf great Wendell does first two fighters career were Marty McSorley. So thanks I was I

Every time it gets brought up and I think we've had a mom before and talked about it But I go back and watch the fight. Yeah, I don't know, Marty McSorley's jaw needs to be studied by science, how he survived those first three rights. The first three rights from Wendell Clark in that fight. That was Clarky's signature, right? Get in early. And like, he landed three on the button.

And McSorley, to his credit, stood right in there, kept chucking, but what a moment. That's one of, if you asked a certain vintage of Lee fans their favorite moment. Yeah, that's No matter what in the the 360. Yeah, the Brahma or yep the wraparound. Absolutely. Those two moments Carried a lifetime relief young Lee fans. Can we give the next? Generation their moment Mitch Marner spinning around twice behind the net and wrapping it in. Something.

Can you give them another moment? Could be a nice breakaway. It could be Marner or as Wendell said, a fourth liner, right? Scotty Lawton, come on down. The people would love to love Lawton. 18 minutes, no friends every other night. Pat to that on my face.

My God, was that not how I played hockey? I made bar plans in scrums. What do you like to drink? Gin and tonic? I got you. Yeah, I'll see you out there after. Should write a book, how not to. Oh yeah.

You don't need me to write it, ask my coaches. Fantastic. A couple of clip, Kipper's Clippers you want to get to or are you good? Let's talk matchups. You got Tavarez and the Harden matchup? No, no. I was just going to tee it up. They asked him kind of about, because he got matched up a lot against the Luz de Rina line or the Lundell or the Marl. Whatever you want to say it. And Brubik kind of addressed that today and we could listen to that clip.

Clip eight, please Well, I could get him out there against different people, you know, I mean that that London lines played well, you know But not only defensively but they're producing too for the for the team. So it's a very good line And it's it's a tough line. It's a good line with Marshawn on it makes it better you know obviously with his competitiveness and his game. So yeah we'll see. The other one I would mind hearing from him is on breaking the puck out which is something that I have written about they got to do some work on. Yeah so it's a good clip. Like out clip. Like from our breakouts and coming out of these on coverage. Well, you know, I thought they were pretty good last game to be honest with you.

We look at all those stats and you know, the video obviously, and it's not clean all the time. So you got to understand, like it's not going to be clean. The game will not be clean the way they pressure. And you got to be comfortable with things off the glass, chip outs. And we've got to have people skating, getting through there to get onto those pucks. So it's not always going to be clean, but I think our deer are doing a good job of that. I thought our wall play was pretty good last game.

So there's a lot of good things that way. We've got to find a way to get through that swarm and nerve zone. You know, we got to we got to find a way to to get through that swarm and nerve zone, you know, especially off our forecheck. That'll be key tonight. Yeah, they did feel it between Stolarz and Joseph Wall handling the puck. Huge difference. I'm telling you that if he can stay a little quiet, Joseph Wall tonight, even minimal, at least the guys need to know that they're going back and it's not a great puck handler in the crease tonight.

That's all. I'm not sure Chris Tanev agrees with the goalie not going out as much. To me, it's more Stolarz is really good at it. Wool is just fine. Well, if he has a cleaner look tonight, it'll go a long way to a cleaner look getting out of your own zone.

All right, boys. What's going to happen? Score. Let's go three, two leafs in overtime. I got tree one leafs. Four, three leafs OT. All right, so we're good. We're good.

Two days off really should have benefited the Leafs the most. A ton of momentum was lost with the extra day for Florida. So I'm looking for a better start. 18 minutes, no friends every other night, boys. What a life. There we go. What a way to live. All right. Seven o'clock tonight. No need to ever change your dial on Sportsnet.

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