Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1266 | Just Asking Questions: A Response to Candace Owens & a Biblical Approach to Investigation

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Starting point is 00:00:46 That's fellowship homelones.com slash alley, term supply, see site for details, fellowship home loans, mortgage lending by the book, nationwide mortgage bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, equal housing lender, NMLS, number 819-382. Candice Owens has had some questions for me and I've got a response. Really today's episode is about how to investigate and seek the truth and ask questions in a way that is edifying in a way that is productive and most importantly in a way that is biblical and glorifies God. This will be quite an enlightening episode.

Starting point is 00:01:19 It's brought to you by our friends at Kexie. Kexie cookies are so good. I just got my new batch. Go to K-E-K-S-I dot com. Get you some Kexie cookies for this. holiday season. Kexe.com code Alley 15 for 15% off. That's kexie.com code alley 15. Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. Okay, we are back. My dad was here on Monday. If you want to know how this government shutdown is

Starting point is 00:01:59 going to end and if America is over, then you need to listen to Monday's episode. He does such a good job of breaking that down. He also talked about at the beginning of that episode of PBS special that I was going to film and then it was going to go out around the March for Life in January an abortion debate. However, that ended up not happening. CR and I were supposed to go to New York City and with all of the crazy travel stuff that was happening, our flights got canceled and so we weren't able to make that happen. But you know, God is sovereign. His eternal plan of redemption is going off without a hitch. Nothing ever surprises him or takes him aback. And So who knows? The reason why that ended up not panning out when it seems like God is doing one thing,

Starting point is 00:02:45 he's doing a million things, many of them that we don't see. And there have been so many times over the past couple of days, even though it would have been fun to go to New York City in the fall with my husband. It has just struck me several times that I'm so glad that I'm home. Like I'm so glad that I'm not traveling right now. And I sure as heck, am so glad that I didn't go to Manhattan and somehow get stuck. I've heard so many crazy stories of all of you getting stuck in various cities for multiple days. And I'm just so sorry about that. And I'm so sorry for those of you, you or your spouse, you work for the government, you work at an airport and you haven't been able to get paid. I know that's really demoralizing. And that just, it just goes to show kind of

Starting point is 00:03:32 the gridlock that we have in Washington right now. And the failure of the, the people who represent us, especially those in the opposing party who are just not willing to come to the table and make things happen that need to happen. So hopefully there will be some relief on that. Okay, before we get into the content of today's episode, I just, I want to ask something of you. I know I've got such a pro-life audience and you want to not just talk the talk, but you want to walk the walk. And over the years, we have donated many, many baby and maternity items. to pregnancy centers across the country. I have just been blessed to simply be a vessel of that,

Starting point is 00:04:14 that a pregnancy center will reach out to me and say, hey, we have made this Amazon wish list or baby registry, and we really need diapers. We really need wipes or onesies. And I will share that link with you guys. And you are so generous. You click the link and you donate as much as possible. And some of my favorite videos ever, y'all,

Starting point is 00:04:35 are of these pregnancy centers, just showing me the boxes and boxes and boxes that have filled their centers of baby items because you guys love moms and their babies so much. And one of my favorite stories was this Amazon driver was delivering all of these boxes to a pregnancy center in Texas and asked one of the staff there, what's going on? Why do you have so many deliveries? And they were not only able to share their mission there and the generosity of you guys, but the thing that compels all of you to be generous,

Starting point is 00:05:08 and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ. And right there, that Amazon driver prayed a prayer to follow Jesus. How incredible is that? So when I say God is doing, when it seems like he's doing one thing, he's actually doing a million things, you have no idea what your generosity accomplishes, not just in your obedience and stewarding your money well, but also how God uses that to weave together people's testimonies

Starting point is 00:05:35 And as you've heard me say so often, the grand tapestry of how our obedience in our testimonies is interwoven with the testimonies of countless other people in the lives that we live here on earth will not be fully seen or appreciated until the other side of glory. Like heaven is going to be so amazing because we can see how God worked through every single thing, even the hard things, even the scary things, even the unclear. things, even the confusing things, God is doing amazing miracles every day through the unseen and unsung work of believers. So I just want to encourage you in that. Whenever your obedience seems small or whenever your generosity might seem unappreciated or whenever you're discipling your kids or you're washing your dishes or you're sending that email and it seems mundane and trivial, nothing is wasted in the life of the believer because God uses all of it for his glory and are good eternally. That leads me to a request that I have for you. My sister-in-law,

Starting point is 00:06:40 she runs a maternity home in the state of Georgia. And it's called Hope 139, and it's based on Psalm 139, and the verses that say that God has knit us together in our mother's womb. And just how precious is that and how precious are all babies inside the womb. And she cares not only for these babies, but also for moms who are very often in poverty. They're in a crisis situation. They are seeking refuge from abuse, and she has created this incredible maternity home there where she serves these families in crisis called Hope 139.

Starting point is 00:07:14 And they are one of these centers, one of these organizations that needs the help and the support of Christians right now. And so because they have to supply these moms and babies with so much, they need our help. They need our donations. So I am going to put a link to Hope 139 in the description of this episode. And I would love for you to click on the website, learn more about what they do.

Starting point is 00:07:40 Maybe you're local to them and you can volunteer. Maybe you're able to donate. And just remember, like, God uses that, not just in people's lives tangibly, but he uses it eternally as well. And my sister-in-law and her family have poured so much into this mission. they get nothing out of these donations personally. I certainly don't either. This is all for these women and their babies so they can know the gospel and to feel the love of Christ.

Starting point is 00:08:09 So I'm going to include those links in the description of this episode. So please take the time to check them out. And if you can and if you feel called, please make a donation. That would mean a lot. All right. Let's get into what we are actually going to talk about. But you know what, since I kind of did a long preamble, I'll go ahead and tell you about our first sponsor because it fits so well into what we were just talking about. It's so important to me that the sponsors on this show are companies that align with our values.

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Starting point is 00:09:35 And, of course, ignores the sacredness of life inside the womb. But with Every Life, you are going to get all high-quality products. This is a Christian family-owned company that is unapologetically pro-life. They donate so many resources to pregnancy centers. So switch over to Every Life. I'm so glad we did in our home. go to everylife.com. That's everylife.com. Use code alley 10. You'll get 10% off your first order today. That's everylife.com code alley 10. All right. Here are some questions that we'll be exploring today.

Starting point is 00:10:12 What does it mean to investigate? What is truth seeking? And what is the significance of our words? I want to explore these questions and other questions that I have from a biblical perspective. in light of the Candice Owens' YouTube series on Charlie Kirk. Now, there are a couple perspectives on her YouTube series. Her supporters say that she's just asking questions, that they're just asking questions, and they will say that Candace is really the only one who wants to know what happened to Charlie.

Starting point is 00:10:47 It is doing the investigation that others won't. Everyone else, their thinking goes, is just accepting the narrative fed to us by the FBI, or worse, they say they might be in on a conspiracy to murder Charlie Kirk. And her supporters view her as a right or die friend who will stop at nothing to bring the truth to light and to seek justice. The other perspective from her detractors is that she's spinning conspiracy theories, that she is implicating the wrong people, that she's ginning up intrigue for lucrative clicks and views, that she's. perpetuating dangerous narratives about the Jews. And before I give you my take on my perspective of her YouTube series, let me answer this question that I have heard her ask and that I have seen

Starting point is 00:11:39 some of her audience ask, why would I wait into this at all? Well, I can tell you first that there's no incentive to comment on anything that Candace does or says. One way or another, you're going to make people angry if you do, possibly including Candice herself. And anyone who has ever gotten in Candace's crosshairs knows that if you do or say something that she perceives as subverting her, she will retaliate with 10 times the force that you approached her. And that retaliation may involve attempts at character assassination. And she's got an army of very loyal followers who feel very emboldened to

Starting point is 00:12:23 amplify her messages on social media. So there is much well-founded hesitation, I would say, and in some cases fear that some people have. People don't want to disagree with Candace publicly or push back against her at all. She's got that massive audience. She has a lot of power, the number one podcast in the world as of last week, which doesn't surprise me at all. She is incredibly talented. She's got so much influence, probably more than anyone in right-wing media. And, you know, she talks a lot about this kind of David versus Goliath dynamic on her podcast. But the truth is that Candace is a giant. And so I am talking about this for the same reason that I talk about anything, certainly not because there is an incentive. I feel no pressure to do so.

Starting point is 00:13:22 I feel responsibility to give my audience, my listeners and viewers that God has entrusted to me the same thing that I always try to give you, and that is clarity and courage, to help you think logically and biblically about the things that matter. And the truth is for weeks, my inbox has been filled with messages from so many of you asking what I think about this or that thing that Candace has posited on her show. And I did do an episode. a few weeks ago on the question of Israel's involvement in Charlie's murder, and you should go watch that. There have been a couple times that I have encouraged you very clearly. Do not outsource your critical thinking to anyone. Don't outsource it to me. Don't outsource it to Candice. Don't outsource it to

Starting point is 00:14:11 the media, to the government, not to any influencer or influence. I want you to use the mind that God gave you to ask good questions and to seek the truth. And last week was another one of those times that I offered that encouragement on Instagram. And I'll kind of back up and give you some context of why I gave that encouragement last week. Candace claimed on her show that the UVU campus stop where Charlie was murdered was booked too close to the event date to be legitimate. And she said, you know, there's, I'm paraphrasing something sketchy there. It seemed to her. And she cited her experience with Turning Points campus tours where she says that stops were planned month in advance.

Starting point is 00:14:57 And I, without saying Candace's name, gave a counter example of that on Instagram and X, showing that Charlie had invited me at the end of August to speak on November 3rd of this year. So about two months in advance. but he couldn't yet confirm the venue because it wasn't confirmed. There were two options that he gave. He didn't know which campus in Alabama we would be at yet. And that was just about eight weeks before. And I've done campus stops with Turning Point in the past, both with Charlie and not with Charlie. And I can tell you that in those cases, things were very often put together extremely last minute.

Starting point is 00:15:38 But Candice had said that the quick timeline of the UVU booking points to her belief in the possibility that Turning Point is lying and engaged in some kind of cover-up. She said, quote, it reeks of an inside job, quote, Turning Point USA is involved. She also said, quote, every day that goes on, it feels like turning point is engaged in a cover-up. So my point was that in my own experience, the timeline is not necessarily unusual. And therefore, I don't believe that it points to anything nefarious. And then last week in the midst of that, I posted an Instagram story passionately urging you to think critically and to ask questions, even of the question askers. I did not attack Candace.

Starting point is 00:16:24 I didn't say her name. But then she responded to those things directly. She responded on X. She responded on her show. I reached out privately. She made it clear that she wasn't happy. And I told her I was glad to have a longer off the record totally confidential conversation with a. about her, but that has not happened. And honestly, I wasn't going to say anything else about it.

Starting point is 00:16:49 I wasn't going to say anything else about it. But then she said something on her show yesterday that just made me feel like I am responsible to respond. So let me get to that in just a second. Let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor, another pro-life sponsor that I'm so proud of, that I'm so thankful for. And that is pre-born. As we talked about at the beginning of the show, there are a few investments that last forever. There are a few seeds that will bloom in eternity. And when you support moms and their babies, that is one of those opportunities to make that eternal impact. And you can do that through preborn. They supply pregnancy centers across the country with the tools and resources they need to serve moms, to help moms make that life

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Starting point is 00:18:31 this just urged my followers, the people that I am responsible to in many ways to think critically about all things. Here's that too. I'm just really tired of some of y'all not thinking. I really am. You say that you're seeking truth and asking questions, but you're actually just outsourcing your critical thinking and your question asking to someone else and you're never really asking questions. You're never saying, does that make sense? Or what could be the other side of that story? Or what is the alternative explanation for that? Or are these two things actually connected by evidence or does it just sound compelling? This is not a Netflix series. It's not an Agatha Christie novel. You're not watching a whodunit movie. These are people's real lives. And if you were implicating a real, person in a murder plot you better be 100% sure that it is true and backed by hard

Starting point is 00:19:22 evidence think turn on your brain the thoughts we think and the words we say not only affect real people's lives but they carry weight in eternity we are responsible for these things I'm gonna take that seriously but you should too look y'all I don't even want there's I've just been wrestling with this so much much over the past few weeks. I don't want the drama. I don't have the time and energy that it takes to go through to make all of these claims first is incredible. But then to go through and debunk all of these claims, I don't have that time. I don't have that energy. I don't have that capacity. I don't. Look, Ali, I just think she should take a break. I genuinely didn't even know

Starting point is 00:20:13 she was going through it like this. Like, I didn't, I don't think we asked her for any assistance at all, actually. I did all the work and people sent me stuff and then we put together a timeline. And here's what I want to say because you're saying it's real life. It was Charlie's real life. Ali, that was Charlie's real life when you saw him sitting there and he got shot. That was his real life. So I feel like that's the part you're missing because you're so worried about the surrounding cast of characters who have been literally caught lying. They lied. That's why we're here. Okay. We didn't just randomly pluck people up from obscurity. Okay. These are people who said he had blood on him. He's amazing. He was so amazing. but he walked away from Charlie as he was bleeding out his real life.

Starting point is 00:20:51 That was his real life. Okay. So that's what's on the line right here is he's not here anymore. Maybe you're not worried about him. But I am. I'm actually worried and I want to know what happened to Charlie Kirk. Okay. So I am not, apparently, according to her, worried.

Starting point is 00:21:10 I'm not worried about Charlie Kirk. my friend too who was shot in the neck whom you have seen me talk about and referenced several times over the past few weeks and just you know what that mentorship meant to me and to hear the implication there that I don't care I don't care she says about talking about Charlie and about his murder. She cares. Okay. You know, that's what she does. That's how she is. And it just makes me, it really, it really makes me sad. It really makes me sad. Candice on her show, she said, you know, she likes me and the feeling has been mutual for years. I had always had very pleasant interactions with Candice. And that is why thus far I haven't used her name when talking.

Starting point is 00:22:13 about some of the claims that she's put forth. I actually thought that that was a way to help you all think through these things without it seeming like I'm trying to fight with her or attack her because I wasn't. I still don't want that. But she responded directly to my post. So now I am being more direct as well. And honestly, in hindsight, I probably should have been more direct from the get-go. And I do just want to say that several weeks ago, I had reached out to Candice via Instagram in response to an Instagram message that she had sent me with questions about some of the claims that she was making and I didn't hear back. And so some people have said, you know, why didn't you reach out? I just want to say that I, that I did. You know, and I've thought a lot about how to do this,

Starting point is 00:22:57 how to do this episode, how to do a response to those, like, very, that very hurtful implication that I don't care as much and that I don't want to know what's true. I've thought really hard. Like, how do I respond in a way that is actually edifying? It lifts you up and doesn't just like tear down and get down in the mud. And CR and I have really been talking about this and praying about this and trying to think about like the best approach. And gosh, there's a part of me that does just want to go tip for tat and wants like a detailed fact check and all of that. But I just know that that will lead to a never ending back and forth. And honestly, y'all, like I can't compete with secret sources.

Starting point is 00:23:38 Candice has referenced unnamed sources that she has in the government and within turning point. And she said that Charlie came to her in a dream. I don't have any of those things. Like I don't have secret sources. I don't have secret knowledge. None. Charlie has not come to me in a dream. I don't have any special insight at all.

Starting point is 00:24:03 Charlie was my friends. He was a very good one. He gave me lots of wisdom and encouragement. prayer over the years he championed me when he didn't have to publicly and privately. And you can go back and you can watch my tribute to him and scroll through my Instagram post for the past couple of months for more on that. If I were to reveal all of the texts to each other that, you know, we have over the years, you wouldn't find anything juicy, no gossip, no hitting clues, no secret signals. So like, I just can't, I won't go there. I don't, I don't have.

Starting point is 00:24:38 all of that. So I'm instead going to do three things. I am going to give us direction from scripture on what godly truth seeking looks like. And I'm going to analyze the weight of our words. And then I just want to share the arrows with a few of my friends. So first, let's talk about like what truth seeking really looks like. What does investigation really look like? Because here's my take. I told you the two perspectives that the supporters and the detractors at the beginning, people who think it's just conspiracy, that it's all malicious, that it's all for clicks and money, and then the people who think that, you know, no, this is real investigation, this is real truth seeking, this is what it means to be a friend. And what I think is that truth seeking and true investigation can be a way

Starting point is 00:25:28 to be a good friend and that the truth does matter, that we should be asking questions, that we should be seeking truth, that we shouldn't just accept narratives from the FBI or the media or anyone and that we should be critical thinkers. And I believe that there are podcasters and independent journalists. I think that there can be just regular everyday people without a platform who can be extremely good at research and investigation. And we shouldn't dismiss someone just because they don't work for CNN or they don't work for the government or law enforcement or something like that.

Starting point is 00:26:01 And I do think that trying to seek justice and seek truth is a way to be a good friend. But I contend that there is a way to seek truth that is biblical, that is helpful, and that is edifying, and a way that is not any of those things. So we need to look to scripture to show us an example of what truth seeking really looks like. And so first, let's answer that question. Like, what is investigation? What is truth seeking?

Starting point is 00:26:29 And the first thing that came to mind to me is the Baran's. In Acts 17, we read about this group of people. group of Jewish people called the Bereans. In verse 10 of chapter 17, we read, the brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. And when they arrived, they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now, these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica. They received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them, therefore, believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. But when the Jews from Thessalonica learned that the word of God was proclaimed by Paul at Borrea.

Starting point is 00:27:07 Also, they came there too, agitating and stirring up the crowd. So that's kind of an aside that we can maybe analyze more at length later on. But I did think it was interesting. At the beginning of Acts 17, we read that Paul shares the gospel to Jewish people in Thessalonica. And the Jews in Thessalonica, we read, got really angry. And they caused an uproar. And then when those who are willing to seek the truth and actually discern what is true, believed in this gospel, those that didn't like the gospel, they got angry about it and they

Starting point is 00:27:40 started agitating and they didn't like that those who were seeking truth found the actual truth in Jesus that set them free. And so we see this kind of juxtaposition in Acts 17 of the true discernment and the wisdom of the Barans versus this emotionalism and reaction of the Thessalonians and how the Thessalonians were actually angry at the true discernment and the belief of the Brayans. So that's just interesting. read Acts 17, but I love that part in verse 11 that the brands examined the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. So they didn't just listen to Paul and Silas and said, wow, that sounds good. That's intuitively, right? I've got a hunch that that's right. But they

Starting point is 00:28:19 examined the word of God to see if what they were saying matched with what the prophets said, matched with what their scriptures said. They wanted to see if these things were true. In our let them episode when I examined Mel Robbins's let them theory if there's something good and biblical to redeem from it and what we should toss out as Christians. And we talked about the word discern. Discern is used a lot and I love etymology. So what does it actually mean? Christians have a responsibility to discern. And we get this word discern from the Latin word decernary, which I don't have my Latin accent up to date. So hopefully you understand me. And that means to separate or to sift apart. So discern is to separate or to sift. To sift comes from old English. And it is when something passes through a sieve or a fine mesh sleeve, a strainer to

Starting point is 00:29:19 keep what you want to keep and let go of what you want to let go of. So for the Christian, the strainer, for every idea, concept and philosophy is the word of God. That's what we see with the brands. That's what it should still be true for us today. the only inerrant and fallible in God breathed written authority that we have. That is our sifting mechanism. So to discern, as we are called to do, means we're not just about seeing two options and

Starting point is 00:29:47 choosing the right one over the wrong one. It's also about carefully separating the good from the bad and the good from the best. About distinguishing between worldly right and biblical right, worldly wisdom and godly wisdom. What do we read that wisdom starts with the fear of the Lord? Now there are people, even other Christians who will mock you for asking questions, not just asking questions of the government or of the media or of law enforcement, but asking questions of influencers, asking questions of even the question askers. They'll wag your fingers at you for questioning whatever it is that they are positing, but Christians are called the sift. We are called to discern.

Starting point is 00:30:31 We are called to weigh what is being said, both how it's being said and the content of what is being said against objective truth, against logical truth, and most importantly against biblical truth. And while we do have to be careful never to veer into becoming self-righteous, we should never be shamed out of being discerning. Ephesians 5, 6 through 10 says this, let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things, the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience, therefore do not become partners with them. For at one time you are darkness, Christians, but now you are light in the Lord. So walk as children of light, for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true, and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.

Starting point is 00:31:17 remember a couple things about how Satan works and this just reminds of of the importance of discernment Satan isn't always out there saying what is obviously 100% wrong and bad. It doesn't always look like darkness. It's not always fully a lie. He starts with parts of the truth and then he twists it. And actually in 2 Corinthians 1114, we see that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. his half-truths to relay a whole lie. He did this in the garden. Did God really say in the wilderness with Jesus? He didn't just come up and lie to Jesus. He actually used God's word to try to manipulate

Starting point is 00:31:59 Jesus. And so, discerning is not just about asking questions. It's not just about saying what is right and what is wrong or what could be true or what could be false. But it is about weighing everything that we hear from me or anyone else against what is objectively and biblically true. All right, we've got more on this in a second. Let me tell you about our next sponsor, and that's Good Ranchers. This is another Christian family-owned company that I love so much. We've been eating Good Ranchers almost every night in our home for years now. And it's so nice to have all of your meat, whether it's your chicken, your chicken nuggets,

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Starting point is 00:34:13 that we have to ask, as we are thinking about what is true, as we are trying to be thoughtful berands is, is there evidence? Is there evidence? Not a hunch, not a theory, not I don't know, but I know, not that looks fishy, not this doesn't feel right, but is there evidence? It's okay to have a gut feeling and ask questions. We should, but that is not evidence. Here is a pattern I see. Bits of truth piece together by innuendo. For example, I'm just going to give an example, and I already laid this out in my episode about whether or not Israel was involved. So here are some things that I believe we know are true. It's true that Charlie had a retreat in the Hamptons in August where they debated Israel. It's true that Bill Ackman and Seth Dillon and I believe

Starting point is 00:34:56 Josh Hammer were there. It's true that Charlie seemed to be shifting on the Israel-Hamas conflict and that he was certainly bolder in expressing that and that he seems to have been under pressure by pro-Israel donors. He told Megan Kelly as much it seems. What I don't see yet is any evidence proving that these things are connected and that they are somehow connected to Charlie's murder. The next question after, like, what is the hard evidence for that? Is who is the source? Who is the source that is telling me this? Who is the source that is making this claim? When I took a rhetoric class in college, one of the first things we learned was ethos, logos, pathos, and the importance of the ethos, the credibility that you have with

Starting point is 00:35:38 the audience and what gives this person the authority to know these things? Where do they derive their authority from. Why would they know this particular thing? Is it based on a hunch? Is it based on secret unnamed sources? Is it based on something that has yet to be revealed? Well, that is a good reason for people to hesitate before jumping on any narrative that anyone puts forth. Next question that we have to ask when someone presents a case or presents a theory or an argument. What is the other potential side of this argument? This person is making this claim. Well, Let me play devil's advocate for a second. Let me think about that a little bit differently.

Starting point is 00:36:17 I really encourage you to do that with my episodes. If I'm making a claim, I do this all the time. People ask, how did you train for the Jubilee debate? Girl, I've been training for that my entire life. That's just how I think. I just think, whether it's someone who agrees with me or not, I'm always playing devil's advocate. I'm always thinking about how I can hone my arguments better

Starting point is 00:36:36 by thinking about what would someone say to this. And so I encourage you to do that with me, but you got to do that with everyone, especially when they are making really important and impactful claims. What could be the other side of this argument? Okay, along those lines, the next question, what are the other possible conclusions that one could draw? So this person is drawing this conclusion about this. Are there any other conclusions that could be drawn from this video footage, this timeline, this fact that happens to be true? Again, a lot of things can be true, but the conjecture comes in in trying to connect all of these things. So we have to ask,

Starting point is 00:37:17 well, is there another way that these could be connected? Is there a non-nefarious reason for this thing that is being claimed or presented? The next question, and this is like a really, this is a really serious one. Is someone being falsely accused? Is someone being falsely accused here? Investigation and truth-seeking are really important. But there is a difference between investigation and truth-seeking versus salacious innuendo-driven drip campaign. See, I know that it's really hard today because we just don't have a lot of true journalism. The bastions of journalism just aren't really. They're just not trustworthy.

Starting point is 00:38:00 They start with a conclusion and they try to fill in facts to support their ideologically. driven conclusion today. Most mainstream media outlets do that. And so we don't have a lot of good examples within the mainstream of what investigation looks like. But from my understanding, traditional investigation, whether it's done by law enforcement or whether it's done by a true journalist back when those existed, you do the investigation and then you present the evidence. It's not conjecture, a new conjecture and a new theory and a new fact every week as people are burdened with the responsibility to put these pieces together in real time because mistakes may possibly be made. And when we're talking about a murder plot, we just need to be really, really careful that everything that we are saying, as far as it depends on us, can be 100% proven in the moment, not later. not secretly, but in the moment.

Starting point is 00:39:04 So there is a difference in investigation and in you and Doe. There is a difference in truth seeking and creating content. Okay. Next thing. Words matter. So the first one, critical thinking, what is critical thinking? And everything that the Bible has to say about that. Then the second one, along the lines of this question of,

Starting point is 00:39:29 is someone being falsely accused. The second thing we have to think about and all of this is that our words matter. And let me just say right now, I am talking to myself as much as I am talking to or about anyone else. Like, I want to take this so seriously as a professional talker. When you have a podcast, you say something and you might make a mistake because we're fallible people or we might say something that we don't mean because we're sinners. But then you can correct it, you know, on the next show. And it's easy to give ourselves a lot of grace. And I'm not saying we shouldn't get any grace. But the fact that you can always correct what you say, again, speaking to myself does not mean that we shouldn't take care of every single word that comes out of

Starting point is 00:40:16 our mouths. And this is like a huge, huge, huge, have to your responsibility for those of us who talk so much to make sure that what we are saying is glorifying. the Lord. Matthew 1236. I tell you, on the day of judgment, people will give account for every careless word they speak. That's Jesus. Let me just repeat that. And I want to like put this on my own mirror. I tell you, on the day of judgment, people will give account for every careless word they speak. Proverbs 1821. Death in life are in the power of the tongue. My goodness, may I always remember that. Words are really important in Christianity. It is a word-based faith.

Starting point is 00:41:00 It is not like Buddhism that puts, you know, a silence on the same level as holiness. This is actually something that I remember Charlie talking about a lot. This is an evangelistic faith that we are to go preach the gospel, make disciples of all nations, that Jesus came and he spoke the truth. And not only that, but he is called the word, the logos in John 1. Words are really important to Christianity. they're really important to God. We read over and over again, whether it's in these passages or the book of James,

Starting point is 00:41:32 how much our tongue can do in creating real life impact and how much our words matter. I would never want it on my conscience to stir up suspicion because of my words where maybe there should be no suspicion. I would not want it on my conscience to point fingers where they don't know.

Starting point is 00:41:55 need to be pointed. That is, it's very serious. And please, Lord, give me the humility, give me the discernment, give me the self-control, and give me the strength to ensure that my tongue is bridled and that I am only speaking that which edifies what is good and right and true. I don't want to be a part of someone carrying the burden of responsibility that they should not be carrying. I think about in the Old Testament. What's incredible about the Old Testament law is the rights that were given not only to the accuser, the one who is actually, you know, making the claim against a person, but also the accused, that witnesses were required, that due process was required, that there were certain definitions of justice,

Starting point is 00:42:44 that you couldn't just say that someone was guilty of something, because God actually cared about the truth and about impartiality, and that something was spoken in a way that was entirely factual. God really cares about that when it comes to justice. It's not justice at whatever cost. There is a process of justice that always has to be rooted in care and in truth. And we see that God's character throughout Scripture is that he really cares about how justice comes about. First Corinthians 511,

Starting point is 00:43:14 but now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed or as an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler, not even to eat with such a one. And we talked about last week when we were talking about something else entirely about this word revile. And I hadn't realized. And again, this is something I want to take seriously how important this is to the Lord. I mean, so many passages in the New Testament talk about reviling,

Starting point is 00:43:44 trying to assassinate someone's character, especially based on something that is not true and how abominable it is to the Lord. Ephesians 429, let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up as fits the occasion that it may give grace to those who hear. Luke 645, out of the abundance of the heart, his mouth speaks. God really weighs our words. He really cares about the things we say. Exodus 23-1, you shall not spread a false report.

Starting point is 00:44:17 you shall not join hands with a wicked man to be a malicious witness. Deuteronomy 1915, a single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Proverbs 2019, whoever goes about slandering reveals secrets. Therefore, do not associate with a simple babbler. Our words really matter. Like what we say matters. that is true for all of us.

Starting point is 00:44:48 What we listen to matters. What we share matters. What we believe in our minds matters. And so it's not. I know that she thinks that because I care about these people who are being wrapped up in this or swept up in this and implicated that I don't care about Charlie, it's not true. I care so much. And you know who cares more than all of us, his wife, his family,

Starting point is 00:45:16 those close to him and I don't believe that anyone close to him is uninterested in what is true. But yes, I do. I do feel for those who have been caught in the crosshairs without evidence. I do. So we'll get into that in a second. Let me tell you about our next sponsor. And that is Samaritan's purse. We're thinking about gifts this time of year.

Starting point is 00:45:41 I just posted a story on Instagram about, you know, like how do we make sure that we're giving gifts to our kids. that don't just promote consumerism and materialism and add things to their shelves that they don't really need just for the sake of giving gifts. Like how do we show them that gift giving is good? It points to the gift of salvation that we were given in Christ. But also it's not about us. It's about Jesus. And building a box for Operation Christmas Child through Samaritans purse is a way to do that. It is a way to show your kids that gift giving is fun, not just gift getting, but gift. giving is a blessing both for you and the person whom you are giving to and it glorifies God. Operation Christmas Child has been doing this for over 30 years. They take these shoeboxes

Starting point is 00:46:28 that are filled by us with non-perishable items. They can be toys. They can be socks. They can be toothbrush, different things that children all around the world and impoverished nations need and want. And this spreads the joy of Christmas, the love of Jesus. The love of Jesus. the generosity of the body of Christ to people who are unreached by this, who really have nothing. And it's such a great thing to involve your kids in because, again, you are teaching them. It's not about you. Like, it's about others. It's about glorifying God. So if you want to participate in this, then you need to get your box. Go to samaritansprose.org slash OCC. To Samaritansprose.org slash OCC, you'll learn how to pack a shoebox.

Starting point is 00:47:13 There are all these drop-off locations across the country, lots and lots of churches. and other entities or drop-off locations for Operation Christmas Child Collection Week is November 17th through the 24th. So that's next week. That's coming up. So this week, you need to make your shoebox. And then take your kids, drop it off at one of these locations. Go to samaritanspurse.org slash OCC. One of the people that has been implicated in this is Mikey McCoy, who was the assistant to Charlie Kirk and a good friend of Charlie Kirk. I don't know Mikey what. well, but Candice said that Mikey has appeared to have an extra spring in his step from her sources inside Turning Point USA in the aftermath of Charlie's murder.

Starting point is 00:48:03 And she claims that he was promised to be some kind of successor to Charlie. She has also cast doubt on how he reacted in the immediate aftermath of Charlie being murdered, immediately getting on his phone and walking away. Someone commented the way Mikey walking. walked away with no crouching, hiding, or urgency is chilling. He knew he was safe. He knew no other shot would be following. This is sick. And that was a comment that on Candace's YouTube that she had liked. And this is an example. I don't think that we see any evidence of his involvement. I don't think that we have any facts that prove that somehow he had a spring in

Starting point is 00:48:43 his step, that somehow his behavior was sketchy. In fact, we saw that Erica Kirk told Jesse Waters in her interview with him a couple weeks ago that Mikey called her and said that Charlie's been shot, get the kids. But it is a very strong claim to make that someone who was close to Charlie acted sketchy immediately following his death and also that he had a spring in his step, implying that he was somehow happy about this. She is called Seth Dillon a literal demon. I will never like can't explain to you that there was something very dangerous like psychologically when talking about Seth Dillon. Josh Hammer was one of the people who is in the Hamptons, who she claims was a part of kind

Starting point is 00:49:28 of pressuring Charlie Kirk. And she has implied that all of that pressure involving Israel also had something to do with Charlie's murder. She has said, quote, the people around Charlie are not acting in the way that they should be acting. Their emotionality is not meeting the moment of violence that we all witnessed. They're lying to you about where Charlie was on his feet. faith journey. That's hush-hush. The Catholic thing must stay hush-hush. And again, I don't have any

Starting point is 00:49:55 inside information on a Catholicism journey there. Again, she said that Charlie's murder wreaks of an inside job. Turning Point is involved every day that goes on. It feels like Turning Point is engaged in a cover-up. She said, I don't know how the executives over at Turning Point USA, sleep at night. she said, this is looking to me. This is a quote, like the apparent plan was to assassinate Charlie Kirk then to stage a hostile takeover of his brand and his legacy. She's responded to Ben Shapiro. Ben Shapiro was with Megan Kelly and said that Candice Owens has directly accused Erica

Starting point is 00:50:34 of being involved somehow. And Megan pushed back on that. And I think Ben kind of clarified. And he clarified that she has said that everyone close to Charlie betrayed him, but it's true. Candice has not said, you know, I think Erica was involved in this. I think that people are implying that. I think people are drawing that conclusion from her saying everyone around Charlie and all of the executives at Turning Point. She is the CEO of Turning Point. How could they sleep at night? So I'm not saying that she did say that. She didn't say that.

Starting point is 00:51:10 But I think that is where people are making that assumption and drawing that conclusion. but in response to what Ben Shapiro said, you know, she's released a bunch of texts about Ben between her and between Charlie and, you know, basically saying that they didn't like Ben very much back in the day seven years ago. And I just will say like, yeah, I would, I would hate someone to like after I die to reveal texts like that, like between us because those texts didn't make Ben look bad. They made Charlie look bad. They made Charlie look bad. And like, that's your friend.

Starting point is 00:51:48 That's your friend, man. And I mean, that makes him, it makes him look petty. And I'm just not sure like what that revelation really accomplishes. She's also criticized Lila Rose heavily. And she's kind of questioned Lila's military connections, I guess, because her husband is a veteran. She has questioned Alex Clark. And Alex's decision to talk to the Wall Street Journal a week after Charlie was murdered. And Candace claimed that it would make her feel icky to speak to the media one week after Charlie's death.

Starting point is 00:52:24 She did do a CNN interview a couple weeks after Charlie died, though. And I just want to say, like, I know Alex and Lila really well. I know Seth. I've known Ben over the years. I know Josh. And everything I know about these people is that they are kind. and genuine people. And I don't believe that they deserve at all to be implicated in this way. Like, I just think it's really serious. I just think it's really serious when we bring these things

Starting point is 00:52:55 to the table. And that doesn't mean we can't disagree with people. We can. I disagree with people publicly all the time. And that's what I'm doing here. I still don't mean for this to be an attack, but I do want to share the arrows with my friends. I want you to pray for the people that I just listed. I want you to share their arrows and I want you to encourage them and to pray for them because it's not easy to like to get these kind of arrows. It's just not. And I know that by doing this episode like I am also going to get a fresh set of arrows. I realize that, but I also would want people to stick up for me. And so I just, I want to stick up for these people that I, that I know. I would want people to say, you know what, I know her and she's a kind person. And

Starting point is 00:53:39 and she's a sweet person, she's trustworthy person. And that's just like what I want to say about these people is that they don't deserve this ire. And I just don't think this is right to catch them up like this. Okay, a couple more things that I want to say as we close out, just like some questions to ponder and some encouragement for you. Let me tell you about our last sponsor for the day. It's fellowship home loans.

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Starting point is 00:55:12 Charlie had a lot of enemies because of the truth he spoke. Progressives, the far right, apparently some pro-Israel activists and donors, pro-Palestine, pro-Islam activists. Charlie spoke against Islam and transgenderism and immigration and progressivism far more than he spoke against anything else, far more than he criticized Israel or anything else. They're very powerful people in every single realm of the United States. that Charlie criticized. There were a lot of people, a lot of different people who could have

Starting point is 00:55:49 seen that Charlie was in their way. Do I think that we should necessarily accept everything that the Federal Bureau of Investigation tells us? No, but I think it's plausible. I think there's very good reason to believe that some transgender-loving activist, some radicalized left-wing guy, that he killed Charlie. And I think that we have to trust that those closest to Charlie, that Erica, that those in his life who loved him way more

Starting point is 00:56:26 than we ever did, who knew him way better than we ever did, that they want truth more than anyone, that they want justice more than anyone, and that they are asking the right questions, and that they are trying to, find inconsistencies and that they are pushing the right buttons. But maybe that's not happening out in the open because maybe that's not the way to do it.

Starting point is 00:56:50 Maybe that's not what they want to do. But I don't think that we can just assume that because they're not responding to everything that an influencer or podcaster says that there is not truth being sought. And so that is, it is not a lack of caring on my part. That is for sure. It is trusting the Lord. also trusting, okay, the people who knew Charlie and loved him way more and knew him way better, that they are, they've got this and they are seeking the truth the best that they possibly can.

Starting point is 00:57:23 And so I want to see this investigation play out. Like they're pushing to have cameras in the courtroom, we will be able to see it. And we will be able to see the questions that are asked and the justice that is being sought in all of this. So that's where I am on this. I want to seek truth. I want to present evidence. I want to ask the right questions in the right way, in a way that edifies you and doesn't even risk falsely accusing someone, slandering someone, giving them unfair criticism, putting unfair heat on them, seeking people against people who may not deserve any ire or any suspicion again huge responsibility I can care about both I think we should all care about both and it's a false choice which is a logical

Starting point is 00:58:21 fallacy to say that either we care about people's reputations or we care about seeking justice for charlie Christians should do both we can do both and the holy spirit empowers us to do both So let's all be careful what we say, whom we follow, what we listen to, and making sure that we're doing it all to the glory of God. All right. That's all we've got time for today. We will be back here on Friday with Frank Turrick.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1266 | Just Asking Questions: A Response to Candace Owens & a Biblical Approach to Investigation

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