Ep. 1409 | Is Mormonism Satanic? This Ex-Mormon Says Yes | Kighley Medrano
00:00I asked her, so what about the Book of Mormon?You read it and at the end it says, pray and know that these things are true.You will get a burning in your bosom, you'll get a good feeling.That is the Holy Spirit telling you, yes, this is truth.And she said, I believe that it has some truth in it, but that truth has been twistedjust enough to where it's not truth anymore.And I said, okay, so then what about buy your fruits, you will know them.And she said, I agree that generally the Mormon Church produces good moral families and children,
00:29And it looks really good on the outside, but Satan comes dressed as an angel of light.When she said that, just the lights flipped on, scales fell from my eyes.I knew that the angel moroni was a demon.This episode is brought to by our friends at WorldWatch.Go to worldwatch.com.com.So you and your teens can know what's going on in the world from a biblical perspective.Use code Ali to start your 30-day free trial.
01:06Kylie, thanks so much for taking the time to join me.Who are you and what do you do?Well, I'm Kylie Madrano and I post videos on the internet.Yes, you do.You talk about all kinds of things, family, you're a mom of six kids.And you also have shared publicly about leaving the Mormon church and becoming a Christian.So I know it's like a big question, but I would love to go all the way back to you being raised a Mormon.and then we can just go from there.
01:40Yeah, absolutely.Were you born into the Mormon church?Yes, I was born and raised in the Mormon church.I was baptized when I was eight years old.I did all of the regular Mormon things.We were very active as a family.I have four brothers and sisters,and we were just a regular Mormon family growing up.
01:59Did you grow up in Utah?No, we grew up in East Texas.So that's the Lomah, Tyler area.Yes.And you've talked about,before about how even though you like fully believed in Mormon doctrine, there were some things thatyou felt like you just like couldn't abide by, like the coffee thing, different rules. Can you talk alittle bit more about that? Yes. So even though I totally 100% believed in the Mormon religion,
02:25there was never a doubt in my mind at all. I still just desired sin. Even if the sin wasn't reallysin like to your coffee, I just, I just desired sin. I was rebellious. I was rebellious.I was considered more of a Jack Mormon, I guess you could say.And so it was really not something that I just desired, which was to just follow all the rules.I knew I was supposed to, and I knew that I should, but I just, I did not.You said Jack Mormon?Yes.Okay, what does that mean?
02:57So there's, like, Molly Mormons would be considered Mormons that do all the things.They're temple worthy.They do all of the things, right?They have no struggles outwardly, of course.And then you have the Jack Mormons who totally believe it.There's no question, but we'll drink tea or coffee, will just be more worldly.They would just maybe hide it or not be as active in the church.And so I was one that hid it.
03:24I was still active, but I just almost looked like a double life.Yeah.Would you say that was mostly like when you were a teenager?Yes, absolutely when I was a teenager.Yes.And what do you think that was?Like, why do you think that you started bucking some of the things that you had been told were right?I just think it was my own desires, even whenever I was eight years old.
03:48So whenever it's typical and normal for a child to be baptized into the church, if you are born and raised in the Mormon church, to be baptized and become an actual member when you're eight years old.And so in the Mormon religion, baptism is actually for the remission of sin.So when you're baptized, you're wiped clean of all your past sins.The baptism does that.And I remember even when I was eight years old, feeling the weight of that, like, knowingthat, okay, so I'm getting baptized and I have to try to keep this up until I die.And so there was just always, I always felt that weight upon me.So I think that just grew more and more as I got older and temptations came and my own
04:29desires began to grow to chase after destruction and sin. Even though I was in a religion,I was still lost in that religion. Yeah. And when you say that you had desire for destructionand sin, are you defining sin, like how we would define it now as Christians, as the Bible definesit? Or are you defining that in Mormon terms, like drinking coffee? I would say both. So I wasdrinking coffee. So internally, that was still totally sin. I never liked sweet tea, even though I live in Texasis in the South.But I did drink coffee, and I would, yes, still participate in sins of the Bible would call sin.Just a very rebellious typical teenager, partying, drinking, all of the things that were just
05:12chasing after sinful desires and destruction.Was there a conscious part of you that was like, these rules just like aren't real?And what's underneath them just must not be real.And that's why I'm not going to abide by them.Or was it really more of just like, no.what, I do believe that in one sense. I just want to do what I want to do. Absolutely. I just want to dowhat I want to do. I never questioned anything. I firmly believed all of it was truth and real.I just, I just was chasing after sin. I was just lost. Just chasing after the things of the world.
05:50Mm-hmm. And you got pregnant and had a baby out of wedlock, which in a lot of communities,not just the Mormon community can be something that is like very tough and you can feel veryshameful about. And I imagine for your parents, this was like, this was a really big deal thatprobably rocked your family in a sense. Yes. There had been lots of things that happenedleading up to that. That was just kind of the natural consequence of where my life was,where I was going in my life. I had already moved out when I was 17 years old. I think thatthat also was just a lot of just the weight that I'd always felt of just shame and guilt.And so I moved in with my daughter's father whenever I was 17, 18 years old.
06:40And so, yes, that was a big deal, but there was many things that happened.So it wasn't necessarily surprising that that happened.It was just.Yeah.You said that you struggled with depression and drugs, and then you spent time in a mentalinstitution. And so there was a lot of things going on at this time. Yes, there was a lot of things going on.That, of course, all led up to this. So once I had my baby, of course, the Lord used that to changelots of things in my life. But up until then, yes, there was a lot of drugs, depression, partying,
07:15just, yes, all of the destruction. Yeah. Yeah. Talk more about having your baby and how that changedthings for you. So I was just really ready to what I thought was being able to leave that weight and thatburden of being in my childhood home. I thought that maybe that's where the weight was coming from,just having to live this double life because I was more afraid of my mom than I was of God.I wanted to make sure she thought that I was doing everything that I should. And it was not reallyworried about holiness. And so after I had my baby, I was just,ready to kind of grow up. I was ready to try to fill that hole that looking back was clearlythere, getting with someone that I thought would fulfill that, having a baby that I thought
08:06would fulfill that. And of course, none of those things did. Right. And then eventually you metyour husband, right? Tell me about that. So we met when I was actually still with my biologicaldaughter's father. So we met like a Christmas party. So we knew of each other. And then once me and himsplit when my daughter was about a year old. That's whenever me and him went on a date. And it waskind of history ever since then. We've been together ever since then. So we dated for a year,we're engaged for a year, and we've been married for 10 years. Tell me more about his faith and yourfaith and how those two things collided. Yes. So of course, I was a Mormon at the time. And he was raised ina Christian home. He was taught the gospel and he was raised up in a Christian church in a Christian home. But he
08:53very similar to me was just not pursuing holiness, was pursuing the Lord. He was chasing his own desires.And so him, whenever we first met, he didn't know what a Mormon was. He definitely thought it was justanother Christian denomination, like a Methodist. And I was like, exactly. That's what it is. And so aswe had further conversation, he learned quickly that it was not a Christian denomination. And webegan lots of different arguments from then on. He still married me afterwards.which I mean, you know, that's his fault.But he married me and then we just continued to have those conversations.And I think the reason he was okay with marrying a Mormon is because he just, I mean,
09:33being unequally yoked was not on the priority list for him because nothing else really waspursuing the Lord or anything in that way.Yeah.It's interesting that he was raised culturally a Christian.So maybe not like super solid or super deep in his theology.And yet he did realize through y'all's conversations,oh, this is not the same thing.This is not like Methodist.
09:56Do you remember what it was that made him realize, hang on, this is actually really differentthan what I believe?So it was a conversation that he was having with my brother, my older brother, who wasreturned missionary.And so I said, hey, how about you call him, have some conversations, ask your questionsto him.And everything was fine.Like the Book of Mormon kind of was like making sense to him.
10:17Like, okay, that's interesting.But then once I mentioned like the doctrine and covenants, he was like, whoa.what is that? And so then he realized, okay, so this isn't just this. There's other books on top ofthat as well. And that's when he was like, hold on, there's no way. And so then as he started todive deeper into anti-Mormon literature, is definitely where he realized this isn't the same gospel.This is a cult. This is nowhere near Christian or anything that I grew up believing.Quick pause from that conversation to tell you about my friends at Adele Natural Cosmetics.You saw them that share the arrows if you were there. They're amazing.
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11:34and supports the values that we have.Go to adele natural cosmetics.com.Use code Alley for 25% off your first purchase.Adelaanaturalcosmetics.com code Allie.One thing that you said was that you wanted him to think that Mormonism was just a differentdenomination of Christianity, like being a Methodist or something, which is something that Iare increasingly from Mormons.Didn't really used to be that way, though.
12:05It used to be like Mormons are distinct.We're called Mormons.Now it's like, don't call me Mormon.I'm just LDS and I'm a Christian.Can you talk a little bit more about why that is,like how you were raised,how you thought about it at the time that you met your husband?I definitely thought that I was a Christian.
12:23And it's the same argument.We have Jesus in the name,the Church of Jesus Christ,of Lattery Saints.Of course we believe in the same Jesus, that's silly.So I think it has just a lot to do with deception and our eyes are closed.It's very easy to, of course, take things that are in the Bible and say, well, that's a part that was translated incorrectly.So anytime that we're confronted with anything that would go against what we believe Jesus is, that is, of course, where plain and precious truths were lost.
12:49And that's the whole point of the restoration of the gospel that Joseph Smith brought about.So it's just a very easy loophole to just continue down the Mormon theology and Mormon belief.system whenever that's your basis for truth is that there's just kind of always this loopholethat points you back to Mormon doctrine. And what is the doctrines in covenants? So doctrine andcovenants is another revelation that Joseph Smith received from God. And it's basically his ownscripture. So it's still considered scripture. It's in the candidization. I actually have mywhole quad right here. But it's just another revelation for the church to,abide by. So it's just extra scripture that Justice Smith wrote down from Revelation.
13:36Okay. So your husband started like looking at that and he was like, okay, this is actually reallydifferent than the Bible. Now you talked about something interesting in marrying your husband,who you said was kind of a cultural Christian, that you almost didn't feel worthy to marry a Mormon man.Can you unpack that a little bit? Yes. So I of course was like I've said like 12 times.I was after destruction.And so in Mormonism, it's not just about being able to repent.Like, of course, there were times where I knew that I was in sin.I knew that I was not abiding by the laws and ordinances of the gospel in Mormonism,
14:13or even just in general, in regular morality.And so whenever, even whenever you're to that point where you'd like to repent,it's really difficult to.It's not just a, God, I'm repenting.I'm sorry.Like, please forgive me.there's an entire repentance process.So you have to meet with the bishop.
14:32He might prescribe different things for you to do.You're going to have to abstain from sacrament, which is the bread and the water.So it's similar to like communion.You have to abstain from that.You can only take that if you are worthy to take that.If you are deemed unworthy enough, you have to not be able to go to different trips.So it's not just an internal like between me and the Lord.I can repent of this.
14:57It is very much going to be a public thing if it's bad enough.And I knew that mine was going to be bad enough.So even if I wanted to repent, it was really hard to convince yourself to go through all of that.Public humiliation is what basically it would be because everyone would know why you can't partake.So I never really, there was maybe one or two times I actually got the gumption up to go through the repentance process with my bishop.And even then it was just still tainted.like I still felt the weight of that.Like I never actually felt forgiven.
15:31I never actually felt worthy or clean or pure or any of those things.And so, and I felt like everyone around me knew.And so there was just no really point in even pursuing like a Mormon guy or a turn missionarybecause purity culture is very, very big.The law of chastity is very big in Mormon culture.And I was definitely considered outside of that.Also, my mom, my dad was back.baptize in the church, but he was never an active, like consistently active. So my mom is the one who
16:01took us to church, seminary, all the things. And so I said, okay, well, if she can do that,then I can carry my family too. Yeah. And you've also talked about how you weren't reallyworried about your husband believing something different. Because even amidst all of this,like feeling outside, like you still were tried and true. You were like Joseph Smith, Revelation,all true. All right. You were still a believer. And you didn't have really,anxiety about your husband not being a believer because you were like, well, I'll just get baptizedon his behalf in the church when he dies before me, right?Absolutely.
16:36Talk a little bit more about that because some people don't understand that.Yes.So in the plan of salvation for Mormonism, whenever someone dies, there's two places that they go towait for judgment.So there's spirit prison and spirit paradise.So everyone who's gotten their work done on earth, so you've been baptized in the Mormonchurch with the correct authority, the correct priesthood, which only the Mormon church holds on earth.You have to have the laying on a hand, the gift of the Holy Spirit. All of those works have to be
17:06completed for you to go to Spirit Paradise. Everyone else who hasn't had that done is waiting inspirit prison. So you can do it on their behalf proxy in the Mormon temple. That's one of thebig things that happens. That's what a lot of the youth groups, a loose youth trips that we would do.we'd go to Dallas and do like 30 baptisms each person for in behalf of this long list of people.So my plan was when my husband died, I would just get his works done in the temple so that,because there's people that go from Spirit Paradise into Spirit Prison.They're missionaries.They're sharing the gospel.
17:39If you accept it, great.Now we're just waiting for your works to get done.So you can mosey over to Spirit Paradise and waiting over there.He was actually going to get it in his will that he was not, no one put his name anywhere in the temple in the Mormon time.He was going to put that in so that I couldn't get that done.Wow.Okay, I didn't actually know about the spirit prison and the spirit paradise.I know that there are three levels of heaven that you can go to that like someone like me
18:09who is a Christian believer who believes in Jesus for the forgiveness of my sins, buthasn't been baptized in the Mormon church and all that.I would go to one level.But the highest level that you actually are in the presence of God.correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to remember, is for those who are obviously,they're in spirit paradise, and they have done all of the things required by Mormonismto actually be with God in heaven. You have to do all of these things, right? Correct.And what, like, okay, here's the thing. I, you know, I debated a Mormon on my show. And he would say,
18:47we're not, we don't go to heaven by works. It's not by works. It is, you know,through, only through grace. It is only through Jesus. But can you drink coffee on earth,do everything else as a Mormon, and still go to the highest level of heaven? No. You cannot.So to be able to reach the highest level of heaven, you would have to go through the temple.And so you would have to get lots of different temple work done. You would have to learn all of the signs and thetokens. You have to receive your endowments. There's lots of things you have to do. Sorry, what are the,Sorry, I'm going to pause because it's so interesting to me.What are the signs and the tokens and the endowments?
19:27So it is very identical to Freemasonry.So any of the signs, the tokens, the handshakes, those are the things that you have to be able to do in order to go through the veil.You get a new name.There's lots of different ceremonies that have to be completed in order to go through the veil, to go through the celestial kingdom.So in order to even enter the temple to do any of those things, you have to pass an a worthinessinterview.And in the worthiness interview, you have to be obeying the word of wisdom, which entails tea, coffee,tobacco, and alcohol.
20:05You have to be abstaining from those things.So if you're not even doing that, you don't even have a temple recommend.So you can't even go to the temple at all.So that would stop you at the very beginning to even be able to keep going.Okay.Can you tell me what a worthiness interview is?So a Worthiness interview is an interview that's conducted by either a bishop or one of his counselors.And so it can start when you're 11, 12 years old.
20:29And it would start then whenever you are trying to go to a youth temple trip for baptisms for the dead.And so they ask you things like faith, do you believe in Jesus, God?Do you believe Joseph Smith was a true prophet?Do you believe that the current prophet of the church is a seer, revelator?today are you obeying the law of chastity, which is just sustaining from any kind of sexual acts?Are you obeying the word of wisdom?Are you a full tithe payer as far as you're able to be?So a full tithe payer in Mormonism is 10%.
21:00And so you have to be able to pass the standards of the church in order to be consideredworthy to get your recommend for entering the temple.Okay.So it's so interesting because obviously you're listing so many different qualificationsand works that you have to do even beyond like good works.I mean, this is a whole list of sacraments that you have to accomplish in order to dieand to not just go to the spirit paradise, but be in the presence of God.But if I asked a Mormon, they would say, no, we're saved by Jesus.
21:32We're saved by his sacrifice.We're saved by his grace.So is there like a purposeful hiding of all of the things that you're talking about?Or is that just what y'all are taught to say?there's just there's obviously such a distinction between what you just said and what I hear from a lot of people in the LDS church.So if you ask a Mormon, are you saved? They can say yes because saved in Mormonism is just getting to heaven.Like that's all Jesus did. He's basically the little bridge that you can walk across to get to heaven. And then once you're in heaven, that's when you're judged and will decide what degree of glory that you're going to be in.So that's that's the word saved. So they use a lot of.
22:13of the same terminology, but they have very different definitions.Okay, so that's why I could ask them, am I saved as someone who believes in Jesus?And they would say, yes.They would say, yes, you're saved, I'm saved.But they know that if I went to the other side and their worldview, that I would be judgedto the point where I couldn't get all the way up to the presence of God, right?Yes.Okay.
22:40We kind of took a little bit of a detour because it's so interesting.I mean, there's so many things that I hear from you that I don't hear from people who are currently, you know, identifying as LDS.And so one other thing that I want you to unpack in that, that we kind of brushed past is you said, all of these tokens and these different things that have to be done within the temple are similar to Freemasonry.Now, what are you talking about?So Joseph Smith was a Freemason.There's different parts of Mormonism, Mormon members, who are totally aware of that.and say, actually, I would love to be one. I'm in a lodge right now. And then there's one wholike, there's no way that's not true. It just depends on what part of the country that you're in.
23:22The closer to Utah that you get, I believe it's definitely more common knowledge up there,but down here, it's very uncommon knowledge. But he was a Freemason.Okay, tell us what Freemasonry is. As far as I'm aware, free masonry is a very, it's a cult in and ofitself with lots of sacred, secret ceremonies. And it's,lots of sacred, secret things, which is very similar to how the Mormon structure is. If you aska Freemason, what's going on in there, they say, we can't talk about it. It's sacred, right? Not secret,sacred. And that's very similar to when you ask a Mormon, okay, so what happens in the celestialroom in the temple? Like what's going on in there? And there's a lot of the things that even I've
24:06said on this podcast right now that are considered sacred things, not secret things, but sacred things.just a lot of hidden, hidden things and nothing good happens in the dark.Okay.So I'm just looking up so people can have kind of a clear definition.It's also called, Freemasonry is also called Eastern Star.It's very similar, as you said, to other secret organizations.I would call LDS Mormonism a secret organization, a secret society that operates in secret.I always think it's very austere when I see like a Mormon, what they call a church, but a building.
24:42like there are no windows, it's, it's very closed off.So that's one similarity.Freemasonry in itself is not, you know, it's not a religion.So someone could be Mormon or they could be Hindu or they could be something else andthey would become a Freemason.And they just believe in some kind of supreme being.And they believe that through following the ordinances of Freemasonry and gainingFreemason membership, that you can gain some kind of salvation.
25:12They have symbols and emblems, as you said.And they teach that this is a process of self-improvement.And it represents different kinds of virtuous education that they have to go through.So very strange.It's kind of syncretism.Like it takes so many different forms of different faiths and puts it all togetherinto some kind of secret society.And you're saying Mormonism is very similar to that,
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27:11So we've kind of covered all of these different ins and outs of Mormonism.You get married.Your husband's still not on board.with it, what starts to change?So nothing really started to change.I was still very zealous for what I believed.He was very zealous for what he believed.We would go at it all the time.
27:31Neither of us were willing to, except I had loopholes.However, I am always willing to go to bat.So we would have very unfruitful conversations and arguments all of the time.To a point where we had to eventually say, okay, like, we have to just, this can be a no-fly zone.We can't talk about this anymore because we're just both.such at odds with each other. And we would always joke that every other part of our marriage wasgreat except for this one part. And so every Sunday was just a huge area of contention. He would go tohis church with our oldest, which would be his biological daughter. I would take my biological
28:06daughter with me and we would just go to our separate churches every Sunday. And did he ever,like, just share the gospel with you and explaining the differences between Christianity and Mormonism?He did. He would, he loved to point out all the differences between Mormonism and Christianity, but one day I remember we were sitting in the living room and he said that he was explaining the gospel to me. He was saying it is by faith alone in Jesus that we are saved. Like no works. And I told him that is crap. Like that's cheap. I don't believe that. You have to prove it. You have to prove yourself. And he told me, well, if you were to die right now believing that, you would go to hell.And I remember saying, how dare you?Like, because in my brain, that just meant he thought I was a bad person.Because that's what that meant, of course, to me.Right.So, yes.
28:57So he did share the gospel, which is a seed that was planted.Of course, I didn't realize it at the time.But he did.Yeah.Yeah.Because in Mormonism, very few people go to hell.Like the sons of perdition.Perdition is hell.
29:10And not like I've been told, like, Judas.But we don't really know who else is there, right?So there was, that's changed.And so that's the one thing that happens a lot, like you said, you know, if you would ask a Mormon 20 years ago, are you a Mormon or Christian, they would proudly say they're Mormon, not Christian. That's the church of Satan and we're the one true church on earth. That's, that was literally what the church was built on. Same thing with who goes down the fun, slippery slide of apostasy. So 20 years ago, I would be considered someone who would be a son of perdition, who would go down. And whenever you see the plan of salvation, there's this, it goes, whoop like that. And to outer darkness, that's where I would go. Now, I think that.there's so many ex-Mormons out there that they just kind of, well, now it's just people who for surelike Judas, right? Like people who absolutely for sure have known the truth, seen Jesus and yetstill denied him. Those are now the people who would go to who are apostates. Interesting. So you'resaying the Mormon church kind of shifts based on how much backlash they're getting to a certain
30:10doctrine. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So you were told you're going to hell.you felt like I'm a bad person.Y'all were like, we can't talk about this anymore.It's too much.But the conversation came up again.You described this scene where you're at the park, right, with your kids.And then a mom is there and she's an ex-Morman.What happened?
30:34Yes.So my daughter had met a friend and they wanted to start getting closer to each other.And so we had to, of course, have a play date with the parents so we get to know them better.And just in passing, she had kind of mentioned that she was an ex-Morman.And I had never met an ex-Morman before.So that was very interesting to me.I just wanted to really know how she was lying to herself.And she was also a children's leader at a local church.
30:59So I wondered why, how are you lying to yourself, left the truth.And you're also lying to children.So I just really wanted to know how she was justifying leaving the true church.And that was the main pool.that I had to wanting to know more about her journey out of the church.So you started talking to her and asking her questions that day that she met her?No, actually. That was about a week before. And later, about a week or two, later we decidedto have a play date together. And I was hoping that we would bring it up and talk about it,
31:35but I wasn't sure. So we had our little toddlers because our big girls were in school. And weended up bringing it up. And so I asked her, so what about the Book of Mormon? Because you read it,And at the end it says, pray and know that these things are true.You will get a burning in your bosom.You'll get a good feeling.And that is the Holy Spirit telling you, yes, this is truth.And she said, I believe that it has some truth in it, but that truth has been twisted just enough to where it's not truth anymore.And I thought that was very interesting because I'm a very black and white person.
32:06And I said, okay, so then what about buy your fruits, you will know them.Generally, the Mormon church produces good moral families, good moral children.what about that? What about the fruits? And she said, I agree that generally the Mormon churchproduces good moral families and children, and it looks really good on the outside, but Satancomes dressed as an angel of light. And when she, that was, you know, 2nd Corinthians 1114,and when she, I didn't realize that that was the word of God that she was quoting to me. And sowhen she said that, immediately the angel Maroni popped into my brain. And it was like,just the lights flipped on, scales fell from my eyes, and an immediate paradigm shift happened.
32:51And I knew that the angel Maroni was a demon. And I just sat there in silence, and I just said,I have to go. So I gathered my children, and I put them in the car, and we drove home. And on theway home, I was just every, every thought, every argument, every apologetics, everything that I hadever known was just melting. Like, it all just became so clear. I couldn't believe the thoughtsthat I was having about the religion that I had grown up knowing to be true my whole life.It was just everything was just unraveling.And so I got home, I put my toddlers down for their nap, and I called my husband.And I was just word vomiting, trying to tell him all of the things that had just happened.
33:30And so finally I got to the end and I said, it's not true.The church isn't true.And in that very moment, I felt just this burden, just that weight just lifted off of me.Like I knew that there was nothing I could do.All of the, all of the lists, all of the laws and ordinances that I had to keep,none of those things were real or true.I just had the sense that it was Jesus, right?And so I said, and at the same time, like I dropped to my knees,
33:59screaming and crying and just in complete agony and sadness and despairbecause I just, it was so painful to just come to this realization suddenly,abruptly, that everything that I'd ever known was a lie, my whole life, everything that I knew.And of course, my husband was extremely excited, crying himself on the phone, but of course,just elated. And so just having both those emotions at the same time was very overwhelming.Yeah. For those who don't know, who is the angel Maronai?So the angel Maronai is the angel who appeared to Joseph Smith, who instructed him to go to theHill Comorah and dig up the golden plates, which would later be constructed into the Book of Mormon.
34:42And the angel Maroni is who is on the top of the like Mormon buildings, right?Correct. Yes. He is a little gold statue on top of every temple. Okay. And he's not worshiped or he's notprayed to, correct? He's just a symbol of the revelation that was given to Joseph Smith,which they believed, you know, restored the gospel and restored the true church to the earth, right?Yes. He's actually one of the characters in the book of Mormon. Moron.Okay. Right. Yes.And here's just like an aside question that I've always wondered, because as you said,20 years ago, Mormons were saying, no, we're the true church, we're Mormons, we're proud Mormons.
35:27There was this whole PR campaign, like, I'm a Mormon, where all these,celebrities, you know, in that big commercial, we're saying, I'm a Mormon to try to show people,look, Mormonism is just like a normal thing. And now they're like, no, do not call me Mormon.They see it as offensive to be called Mormon. They want to be called members of the Church ofJesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And yet, there are no crosses on the churches. Like, I don'tsee Jesus depicted on the churches. I don't know if you have any insight into why that is.It's like why Maroni is the symbol?Why not Jesus himself?
36:02Why not the cross?So the reason that the cross is not on any church is because Jesus did not atone for our sinson the cross in Mormonism.He atoned for our sins in the Garden of Gatsemite.So whenever it says that he shed his blood through every pore, that is where our sins wereatoned for.So the cross, like technically, Jesus didn't even actually have to die.our sins were atoned for when he shed his blood through his pores in the Garden of Gatsimony.
36:33So that's why the cross has no power in Mormonism because that's not the means by whichour sins were atoned for.Okay, I did not know that.And you might not even know the answer to this, or maybe you do.Why?Like, why is that a distinct Mormon belief that our sins were atoned for in the garden and not onthe cross?I really don't know where that doctrine would come from necessarily.
37:01I bet I could look it up.I'm sure it's some kind of revelation from a past prophet.But of course.That's okay.Yeah.But of course, I mean, it's just an undoing of the work of Christ.There's so many examples looking into all of it that the work that Jesus did is undone,going all the way to the actual crucifixion, the actual cross.
37:21The power of the cross is completely taken away.Okay.if you haven't noticed, I really love my pro-life sponsors. I'm really passionate about doing everythingthat we can to protect babies inside the womb and outside the womb and to serve their moms anddads. That's what pre-born does every day. They are a network of clinics across the countrythat serves these moms in need. They provide them with free counseling, free pregnancy tests,free ultrasounds, free resources, free support when it comes to prenatal vitamins, parentingclasses, all different kinds of things. They are saving thousands and thousands of lives every year.
38:01If you donate to preborn, that covers the cost of a free ultrasound when you give $28.That's all it costs for them to offer a free ultrasound, which makes that mom so much more likelyto see that humanity of her baby and to choose life. Maybe you can donate $2,800.Maybe you can donate $2.80. Every little bit helps save a life and serve these moms and dads in need.Go to preborn.com slash alley.Make your donation today.Preborn.com slash alley.Okay, so the gospel, I would say in Mormonism,
38:41you tell me if this is correct that, well, gosh,we could go all the way back to like who Jesus even isand how he was created and all of thatand how that's distinguished from Christianity,which I'll let you do.But the gospel itself is that Jesus was a son of Godand he atoned for our sin,by his blood, but not the blood he shed on the cross, the blood that he shed in the Garden of
39:06Yosemone. And that atonement did not cover our sins once for all. But it's like through thatatonement that we have the opportunity to do all of the good works, follow all the ordinancesof the temple, follow all the rules, all of the ceremonies to then have the opportunity to go toa level of heaven, possibly where we can spend forever with God.Like, is that a correct understanding of what the so-called gospel is in Mormonism?Yes, I would definitely say that.So I can even sum it up even more.So we have the articles of faith.
39:44So there's 13 articles of faith that we are very much encouraged to memorize whenever we'revery young.So number three is, and these are written by Joseph Smith,and then they're in the history of the church in every quad.So it says, we believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved by obedienceto the laws and ordinances of the gospel.So that's it right there.Like, we are saved through the atonement that happened in the Garden of Gatsemite through
40:14the laws and ordinances of the gospel, which of course is only through the Mormon Church.So yes, what you said is definitely accurate.Yeah.So interesting how the wording can be used to make it sounds.so much like the gospel that Christians believe and all of the little footnotes underneath itare kind of hidden, which again, I just, I don't really understand why. Maybe you can speak to that.Why have Mormons kind of shied away from, yes, we're the one true church with the one truegospel and the true ordinances to while we're just another denomination of Christianity?
40:52I think exactly what I had said earlier, whenever there's enough heat,they change. So for example, whenever I was young, the garments were cap sleeve. If you woreanything above that, modesty deemed this to be modest. Recently, it is now this. Garments look likethis now, which is like, why would God change his standard of modesty? Like, that's a huge part ofMormon culture is modesty. So I just think as the age of information, the age of information, theage of being online where it's very clearly like you're going to get if you come up on here and saywe're the we're the one true church you guys are the church of satan we are the one true churchyou need to have the fullness of the gospel here it is that is a statement to be made and so
41:45i just think as the age of information as we're able to just on a more broader sense have theseconversations with each other they've just shied away from being so abruptly differentwhile, of course, when you get into all the nitty-gritty, it's all there still.They haven't separated themselves from that.But as far as being so forward with, you guys are all wrong, we're the right church.That's a strong statement to be made.And so I just think that they're just trying to get out of the limelight in that way.Yeah, totally.
42:18So interesting.I mean, even like the past prophets were so much more open with saying these off-the-wall thingsthat they said are from God. And now if you look at the general conference, which happens,it's a global once a year, the prophet really doesn't say anything prophetic. Like there's nothingcrazy that happens anymore. And I think it's just the age of information. Like it's very easy to tellnow, okay, well, that didn't happen. What you just prophesied didn't happen. So I just think it's justtrying to stay out of the limelight more. Yeah. So you talk to your husband and you justwhen you said those words, like the church isn't true, you felt this burden lift off of you.
43:02Talk about what happened from there.So after that, of course, he got off the phone and I just immediately realized if, okay, soif Maroni is a demon and then all of this is demonic, is satanic.Like that was my initial thought.So my initial reaction was I'm going to go through and I'm going to write down all of the thingsthat I was so offended by.Because of course, in that time,like my husband, of course, is saying other things.
43:30I don't remember what he said to me.But afterwards, I was going throughand writing down things that I just felt offended bythat I shouldn't have been offended by.So things like the word worship or the crossor reading the Bible,things like that were extremely offensive to me.And so then as, you know, time went on,
43:49I was speaking with, you know,so the girl that the Lord used to open my eyes,of course, I texted her and I was like, hey, listen to all this great stuff that happened.And she was like, oh, I thought you were mad.And I was like, no, like you, the Lord used you to open my eyes.And so, of course, you know, she's trying to disciple me and give me all this information.And you just read, read the words of God, read the words of Jesus, you know, all the wordsand read.
44:13And then I just said, wait, hold on a second.How do I know that this is true?So I've been raised in deception my whole life.How can I trust anything?How do I know that Christianity is true?So I went through and I started researching with my husband all of the different religions that I knew about.Judaism, Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, and every one of them had very similar things in common.They either, every one of them except for Christianity, demoted the deity of Jesus.
44:43He was either just a good prophet, just a good man.He was just the son of God, but he was never God in the flesh.Another thing they had in common, right?So I believe it's Islam where the angel, not Gabriel, is it Gabriel, came to Muhammad,the angel that came to Muhammad and showed him the truth, right, a different gospel.In every one of these religions, whenever you go back to the men who founded them,they have to deny oftentimes illegal and heinous accusations that are documented,like actual accusations or bookings, you have to completely deny those things ever actually
45:25happened. You have to deny historical facts, geographical facts. You have to deny all of thesethings for them to be able to stand. And the other thing was that they all had basically the samemessage, even atheism, just be a good enough person in one form or another and you will getto a higher sense of self or you'll get to heaven or whatever it is. And the onlyone who Jesus is God, this book, the Bible, is historically accurate. There is mounds of evidencethat support the Bible we have today is, there's no plain and precious parts that are missing.We can trust this document right here as being accurate. And then it's the only one where wewe cannot have this righteousness in ourselves. We don't possess the ability. It has to be imputed
46:24to us from an outside source. And of course in Christianity, that is from Jesus. His righteousnessis imputed to us. And so once I did a lot of research, especially in the Bible, because that'swhere the entire stance of Mormonism comes from. That's why Joseph Smith had to restore the gospel,because Lehigh prophesied that many plain and precious parts would be lost after the death of the apostles.And there would be this great time of apostasy where the true church and the keys of the priesthood would not be on the earth.And there is overwhelming evidence that that is not true at all.There was nothing that was lost.It wasn't translated from language to language to language and we're just trying to, no, it was transliterated.
47:10Like it's not even true that all of those things, why it was even founded.So then once I said, okay, so this book is accurate.Like I can trust this book.And I wanted to read all of it.So me and my husband started in Genesis and we went all the way through and read everythingtogether.And we spent hours a day just talking through it, discussing it.And through that, actually, of course, I had a thousand questions.
47:35And so I would ask my husband.And he began to realize the things that he grew up believing were not.biblical. And through this process, the Lord actually brought him to a saving understanding ofthe gospel, of truly understanding. He kind of had this weights system in his brain, just do kind ofmore good than bad. Even though he was able to articulate the gospel to me, he himself didn't evenactually truly understand how that played out. Yeah. Yeah, I did just want to say that you werecorrect that it was Gabriel who Muhammad alleged visited him and told him. That's such an interestingcommonality that you reveal that all of these false gospels and all of these perversions of the
48:19truth of Christianity, there is a prophet who claims that an angel came to preach him another gospel,a restored gospel, a different message that the Christians in Islam's case, the Christians andthe Jews all got wrong. And it's interesting that Paul says in Galatians 1-8, even if anangel from heaven. It's like he's so specific, even if an angel from heaven comes andpreaches you a gospel that is different than the one that we've preached to you,like let him be a curse. That's not right. And so the fact that you started seeing that andyou were like, okay, this is just like those other cults out there is pretty amazing. It was probablypretty jarring. Next sponsor is Good Ranchers. We love Good Ranchers in the Stucky Home.
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49:53They're the real deal.Jesus loving family-owned company.Go to Goodrangers.com slash Allie.Get your box of frozen American meat today.Use code Allie, or no, slash Alley, just the link to get $50 off anything on their site.That's good ranchers.com slash Allie.Tell me a little bit more about some of the, what you have called like satanic underpinningsof Mormonism that you've realized over your time of being a Christian.
50:26So yes, absolutely.But I wanted to touch one little part of what you said.And I was having a conversation with a Mormon actually recently in my direct messages onInstagram.But he was saying the same thing.And I told him Galatians 1-8, right?So while Joseph Smith, this is huge.what Joseph Smith started, I don't even think he knew what it was going to turn into one day.
50:47But what Joseph Smith has done, what this has grown into is not unique.It's not.It was actually happening, right, whenever to the church in Galatia in Paul's time.Like he was literally warning them of this exact same thing.2,000 years ago, 1,800 years ago in Joseph Smith's case.So it's not new or unique this exactly what was happening, different angels coming.Right.So a few of the things that I had while going through the Bible, one of the first things was in the
51:21Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. So one of the first pictures of the gospel that we have is whenAdam and Eve, of course, partake of the fruit and they brought them into the world and theycovered themselves with fig leaves. And God killed an animal, right? The first sacrifice and hegave them animal skins to cover their sins for them. So they tried to cover their own sins,right, with their own works, and God made a sacrifice, killed an animal, and covered it for them.So in the Mormon temple, whenever you are going through and to receive your endowments,there's a video that everyone has to watch every time you go through, and it is of the fall.And so there's the actual dramatization of the entire interactment with Satan and with Adam and Eve
52:06and God walking in the garden, all the things.it goes through the whole story. And Adam, Satan turns to the congregation who's in the Mormontemple and says, everyone put on your aprons, right? And the aprons have fig leaves on them.So everyone puts on the fig leaves with Adam and Eve as God is coming into the garden,as God is coming back into the garden. And they stay on. That, and they are actually, Mormons,are buried in their fig leaf apron.That is one of the first, and whenever I came to that realization, it was like, wow,just the undoing, like I said earlier, of all the work of Christ.
52:48So, of course, that is, I mean, the only time that you're told to do anything in the templeis from Satan.Satan is literally telling you to put the fig leaf on, and then you keep it on.Another one would be the veil for the temple.So, of course, when Jesus died, the veil was torn.like God no longer had to dwell. He then could dwell in us. We are the temple, right, when the Holy Spirit came. And in Mormonism, of course, they've re-erected the temple. There is a veil that is put back up and there is a holy of holies. It's called the celestial room and that is where God's spirit dwells. So they've undone the work of Christ even in that. So there's just so many ways like even though, yes, the word Jesus is in the name. The undone the undone the unbred.doing of the work of Christ is so evident throughout the Mormon religion and teachings.Wow.
53:39Which, of course, satanic.Yeah, it absolutely is.So you talk about this moment and then how the Lord just kind of brought you both nearand sanctified both you and your husband, your husband kind of coming out of culturalChristianity, you understanding what Christianity really is.To talk about how this started to shape your family.Absolutely.So, of course, before, like, we parented our children. We loved our kids, but there was no
54:09understanding of even parenting biblically. So, of course, a lot of things changed in our familyof how we parented, how we disciplined them, what we talked about, using God's word, usingscripture, being consistent with our discipline, just the standards of our family and why,and presenting the gospel. Of course, all those things were just a dramatic shift.shift for our family almost immediately.Yeah, go into more detail about that.What did that look like?How did that affect your marriage?
54:42You've talked about like you wanted a career at one point.You didn't necessarily see yourself as a homeschooling mom of six.But then that's what happened.Yes, I did not want kids.I wanted a career.My husband wanted me to have a career.We both wanted those things together.Afterwards, I still definitely was, this of course,
55:02took time. This was not immediate. I still had that influence of the world just saying that you'restuck, right? Even though, like, I needed to take care of these kids. We wanted to homeschool. There wasthose influences. I wanted to be, we wanted to be the main influences of our kids. We wanted themto have a biblical worldview. That was our main goal with bringing them home. Of course, that was fromthe Lord. And I still had this thought, though, that I was stuck, that I just, I was a prisoner inmy house. I just, and I remember saying, okay, like, the Lord has called me to be the career of my home,the nurturer of my children. That is the place that he has placed me. And so I started to pray,Lord, please help me to desire that. This can't be, I wanting to be outside of my home, yet you have
55:54placed me here, having this resentment. Those were all things that were outside influences that, of course,were not from the Lord. And he, through his goodness and his grace and his sanctification,absolutely has taken me and caused me to love homeschooling my kids. Of course, not sayingthat it's easy every day. But love being home, love taking care of my family, loving the placethat he has placed me to be the caretaker and the nurturer of my home.And talk about adopting your two boys.So we adopted our boys in 2019. They came to live with us. In 2019, they were 20 months old and they were 3 and a half years old. And when we adopted them, that was, I believe, one of the things that the Lord used in hindsight, of course, to bring me very low, to make me really realize just how lacking that I was.I mean my husband would joke all the time before when we only had two kids we were like the best parents like we should write a parenting book we're really really good at this and then in the beginning of 2019 we had our daughter together so she was eight months old in october so the beginning of 2019 we had two kids by the end of 2019 we had five two of which were my adopted sons and so of course whenever you adopt children there's a reason that they are needing to
57:22be adopted without going into any kind of specific detail. They needed a lot of help and we wereextremely ill-prepared and unaware of what was going to be coming in the next few months,to years actually. I just got to the end of my rope to of myself. It was three days in and we tookthem to a little church festival to get some candy and jump on some bouncers. And,And I remember they had never been in a public place like that before.They had never experienced that many people or children or anything.When you adopted them?20 months old and 3.5.
58:05Okay.And they were just, we were just unaware.We did not understand what was happening.And so it was that night, three days in that I realized, what have we signed up for?Because we were just so ill-prepared and unaware.And so as time went on, we were living in Waco at this time.And our family both live here in East Texas.So that was about three hours away, both our families.
58:30And so through therapies and through different things that one of my sons needed because of his trauma that they had gone through, the therapist told me, is there any family that lives near you?And we said no.And she said, for someone like him, you need to be.be around family because you need to be able to have a break. You need to have that obligationof family to help you when you need help. He had some severe behavioral struggles. It was veryhard to go out in public. It was all day long, every day that he just struggled withtrauma. PTSD is basically what it was. And so weI asked her, will he ever grow out of this?
59:25Like when he's 16 years old, will we still be doing this?And she said, there is not enough data to be able to tell you whether or not,because usually these children are the ones that bounce around from home to home to homeand eventually go into society to be the menaces of society.They usually do not stay in one family.And so there just is not enough data to be able to tell you what this will look like when he's 16.And that was really hard to hear.But at that moment, of course, my husband said we're packing up and we're moving back to East Texas to be with both our families.
59:59And so we moved back here.And there was a lot of hard struggles that we went through just day by day.Relying on the Lord, there was many times, even my mom, who is still Mormon, would say, Kylie, I don't know how you're doing this.And I would say, Mom, I don't know how either.It's the Lord.Like, I'm not doing this.The Lord is carrying me through this every day.and it was the hardest thing to this day that we've ever gone through. But right now they are
01:00:2710 and 8 years old and you would have no idea that they had any kind of past like that at all.There has been such redemption and grace and beauty that has come out of their story, thesanctification that the Lord has put me through for good because of them. I just, I just,I am so grateful.But they, they absolutely, you would, you would have no idea.And there's been many families.It's such a taboo subject to discuss adoption and how hard it is.A lot of people feel a lot of shame and guilt, admitting that there is, that it's hard
01:01:07or that you have resentment or there's little children.Why would you have those feelings?Like you're ashamed of that.And every adoptive family that I have spoken to who have identical children,to my son who struggled the most. It was identical, identical situations, identical stories,and just the hope that they say that my son brings them to know that there is light on theother side of that, to know that just keep pushing, keep pouring into them, trusting the Lord,praying with them, disciplining them, pushing them along, and that there is hope,
01:01:45which has been such a blessing that I wasn't expecting to be able to be.be, I hope, and a light in this situation for other people who struggle through adoption orfoster care.Yeah.You've talked about overcoming kind of what's called like mom rage or feeling overstimulated orfeeling burdened.And obviously that's a really big conversation right now with a lot of the stuff that'sgoing on online.
01:02:12So can you talk more about that, like how the Lord sanctified you through that?Absolutely.I, of course, like most mothers, don't realize how much of an anger problem you have until you have these little humans that you can't control.So I definitely had anger struggles, anger issues, anger problems.I just always felt like a teapot that was just ready to boil it at any moment.And I remember, and of course it was really hard.And so just having this over-stimulation, having this already underlying anger issue that I had,these things just sitting there.
01:02:47I remember one day when all of the kids were really small and we were still living in Wacoand it was just in the thick of it.And so, you know, if you can imagine this time I had a 10 year old, six year old, three and a half year old,20 month old and eight month old.And two of those children needed so much extra special attention and care.And so I remember one day like the Lord stopping me in my laundry room.And I just had this thought that if you don't get this under control, you are going to dosomething that you are going to regret that is going to put you in jail and ruin your life
01:03:20and everyone else's life around you. And it just stopped me immediately. And I just knew that that wasthe truth. I then after that became very open to the Christians who are around me at that timeabout what was going on, how I was feeling. And that is something that to this day, if you know me inreal life. I'm a very, very open book because I'm so, so free and so glad that we don't have topretend. I am sinful. You are sinful. We are all struggling with this sin struggle and we don't have tohide it and pretend like it's not there. We are actually commanded to confess it to one another and prayfor one another and what freedom and joy that is to be able to have the people around you speak intoyour life and give you counsel and you don't have to hide it. And so there's just so much freedom.
01:04:09And so I found in my church body just being able to talk about it and that I wasn't alone.I was not, this was not an isolated event.There was plenty of other mothers that were dealing and going through very similar things,just having this anger and this rage.And I remember one person that I was discussing this with, and he told me, he was part of our church bodyand he was over for dinner one night.And he said my dad had anger issues as well.And he read this devotional book.
01:04:37And he said after he read this book, my dad,was a different man. And so he said, I want to buy this book for you and I want you to read it.And I read this book. And of course, it starts with the gospel very clearly. And it's saturatedwith scripture. And one of the things that it said was the percentage of people who strugglewith anger issues is 100% of people. And so it goes through this day by day, just it's, it's saturatedwith scripture. It's, it's beautiful. And I totally recommend it. It's anger, calming your heart.of anger. It's something like that. I need to find the actual link to it. I've given it out to so many offellow moms that I no longer actually have a copy. We need to buy another copy for our home because I
01:05:18was just telling my husband who needs to reread it. But through it, it is a very applicablescripture saturated, devotional that takes you day by day, step by step, realizing what youare, realizing where this is coming from, what God has to say about it, what we are to do with thisstruggle that all of us face. And it absolutely was the thing that God used to transform my mind to,of course, I still, like, I'm not perfect, of course, but it just felt like I was shackled to thisanger that I had. And through that, the Lord just freed me from that in such a magnificent way. And evenmy husband says, like, just the person that you were and just over just, you can see the sanctificationthroughout, of course, our time from being saved to now.
01:06:11Yeah, I think it's called anger, calming your heart,a 31-day Christian devotional by Robert D. Jones.Is that what it is?Yes, that is it.Okay, I just wanted to make sure,because I'm sure a lot of people are listening and it's like,oh my gosh, that's me, I need that.So I can even link it in the description of this episode.
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01:07:31alley.And then just to kind of close us, when and why did you decide to start,sharing, yeah, some of its everyday funny life and all of that, but also start sharing about yourfaith and your journey online. So I, to back it up just a little, I have always, I never reallywanted to explicitly name myself necessarily as a Christian online, not because I was ashamed of that,but more I wanted to have everyone's ear. I wanted to be able to influence, like whether you'rea Christian or not, you may not know it, but I am actually influenced.you with the goodness of the Lord. So whether you're a Christian or not, we all benefit from having
01:08:16the influence of loving your husband, loving your children. Of course, that stuff just bleeds out of me.So that was my initial thought, was just being able to be an influence and a light and a verydark place. But I shared one video and it was about, you know, you think I drink too muchcoffee while I was a Mormon for 25 years. So I have some catching up to do. And in the comments,there's just a few people who are like, oh my gosh, like share that lore. You're an ex-orman.Oh my gosh. And so I was, and so I was, I go through BSF and it was, we were in chapter one. And it waswhere Paul is talking about not being ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of salvation.And so I said, okay, Lord, you have given me this platform. I've never, you know, I have had the
01:08:57thought to share like my testimony for a while. But now here we are. There's people that are asking for it.So you five, I hope you're happy because I fully planned on sharing this. It's an eight minute long video.know. It's about Christianity. It's not something that I ever expected. I was expecting to post thatand to send myself to the gallows to be hanged. I never thought that it would do anything or go anywhere.And so I decided to share it. And it's been such a, it's just a testament to the Lord. I've always saidthat the Lord is over the algorithms. He's over everything. And I think it's just more of a testamentto that, like of all the things to go to explode for this to be.that. And what a blessing. At the end, I share the gospel. And what a beautiful opportunity it's been
01:09:43to have so many people be able to hear my testimony and what the Lord has done in my life and then toshare the gospel and have so many people be able to hear it. Yeah. Praise God. Well, Kylie,thank you so much. Thanks for sharing so many avenues of like where the Lord has sanctified you and beingopen about that. And your family. I know people are going to want to like pray for you, pray for yourfamily. Are your parents still Mormons? Yes. All of my family is still Mormon. Okay. Well, this is a verypraying audience. So I know they're going to want to pray for Kylie's parents and your family,as I'm sure you've shared the gospel with them many times, but just that their hearts would befertile soil for the truth. And thank you so much for being unashamed. I really appreciate you.
01:10:28Everyone should follow her on Instagram. It's Kylie, three wise, one M. Kylie M. Thank you so much,Kylie. Thank you, Allie.
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