Scott Horton Show - Just the Interviews - 8/8/25 Tony Aguilar on the War Crimes He Witnessed in Gaza

Episode Date: August 9, 2025

Scott interviews former Green Beret Tony Aguilar about the scenes he witnessed while working as a GHF contractor in Gaza. First, Aguilar and Scott discuss his background and how he ended up in Gaza. They then dig into what he witnessed.  Discussed on the show: Aguilar’s interview with Tucker Carlson “American Security Contractor Unloads On US-Israeli ‘Gaza Humanitarian Foundation’” (Zeteo) “Contractor linked to US-backed aid group details chaos in Gaza” (ITV News) Tony Aguilar is a retired Army special forces soldier who recently worked as a contractor for the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation where he says he witnessed various war crimes committed by the IDF against the people of Gaza.  This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: Roberts and Roberts Brokerage Incorporated; Moon Does Artisan Coffee; Tom Woods’ Liberty Classroom; Libertas Bella; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott. Get Scott’s interviews before anyone else! Subscribe to the Substack. Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, y'all, welcome to the Scott Horton Show. I'm the director of the Libertarian Institute, editorial director of anti-war.com, and author of Provote, how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine. Sign up for the podcast feed at Scotthorton.org or Scott Horton Show.com. I've got more than 6,000 interviews in the archive. for you there going back to 2003 and follow me on all the video sites and X at Scott Horton show all right y'all introducing tony aguilar uh retired lieutenant colonel of the u.s. army and uh including special forces welcome the show how are you doing i'm doing well thank you

thank you for having me uh very happy to have you here um on the show i don't want to take up too much of your time it's friday afternoon and i know you've kind of been doing the rounds uh explaining yourself. I'm not going to waste any of your time asking you to confront the bogus accusations against you. Anyone can see how all that's already debunked by you and by others on Tucker and on the Twitters and whatever. So I just want to hear your actual story. Starting, if you could, please, sir, just tell us a little bit about your background and the terror wars and all of that. When did you first join the Army and deploy and the rest kind of thing? so I entered started my career when I took my oath and entered the United States Military Academy in June of 2000 and I commissioned I initially commissioned as an infantry officer and then after about three years as an infantry officer then volunteered and tried out for for special forces and was selected for special forces so I spent the the remainder of my

17 plus years from that point on as a special forces officer and throughout both my infantry career and my SF career, special forces career, I deployed to Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Tajikistan, all throughout the Middle East in different training and operational deployments. And then also in Southeast Asia to the Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia, and numerous other countries throughout Southeast Asia, same doing training missions and operational missions and combat missions and recently retired here at the beginning of the year. And soon after retirement, I got a phone call from UG Solutions and wound up as an independent contractor in Gaza.

Okay, so if I can dwell on your service in the U.S. Army a little bit, I heard you mentioned before that I think you just made a comparison, but you talked about fighting in Baghdad in 2006 and the worst of the Civil War there. Is that right? Yes, so I was there during my first appointment as an infantry platoon leader from Mosul to Baghdad. And then when our deployment was extended and our unit moved to Baghdad, I was there during the height of the of the sectarian violence between the kind of the Sunni and the Shi and the civil violence, the civil war that was beginning. And then when you talk about Tajikistan and Southeast Asia and all this,

I mean, I think we've all heard of counter-insurgency operations in the Philippines and things like that. But are you talking about combat missions in Central Asia and in Southeast Asia? Or just right? So in the Philippines, there's throughout the duration of the, of the last two decades, Operation Enduring Freedom, Philippines. So in the Southern Philippines, where I was deployed to Mindanao, that was a combat deployment under Operation Enduring Freedom. In Tajikistan, I was deployed there under the same operations

for Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan, conducting support or, you know, still, conducting operations under under under under combat authorities in in Tajikistan working with partner forces um I'm sorry that maybe was a little more confused so combat operations in Tajikistan but in support of Afghan war essentially yes okay interesting okay huh maybe that's a whole other interview I don't want to get too far off on that tangent but that's interesting I don't think I've ever heard of, yeah, I don't think I've ever heard of combat operations in Tajikistan in those

days. Yeah, and, you know, conduct, yeah, the operations we were doing there directly supporting operations in, in Afghanistan, particularly in the north in the, in the, in the conduce region. All right. Well, anyway, let's cut to the actual point here, which is, as you said, you retired just at the beginning of this year. I thought the whole terror war is long here and in different capacities. You finally retired. And then, as you said, you get a phone call from a recruiter for a contractor, working for a contractor, working for Israel,

providing humanitarian relief to the Palestinians that they're killing. Is that essentially the gist of that? Yes. And when I first got the phone call from UG Solutions, which is the subcontractor for security, you know, at that point I was not, aware of and I didn't understand the you know the the contractor for the contractor for the you know for working under the you know at the the IDF is our

client and under global Gaza humanitarian foundation like that was all that those were things that I that I learned of and kind of figured out as I was there so going into it I went into it ignorant to that that structure okay so But you knew the job was essentially you're going to be a guard at the humanitarian relief sites. That much was up front, correct? Yes, that we would be that we would be securing the humanitarian aid, you know, whether it be securing its travel to the sites or at the sites providing security for the aid. Yes, that was clearly made clear.

I see. Okay. And now, so the context is, as I think you explained to talk. Tucker Carlson was there used to be the United Nations refugee relief agency, and they were kicked out of there. And so then this was the replacement solution, was that this contractor, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation would take charge of the relief instead. Is that correct? That is how I understood it, that the UdNWR and the United Nations and the World Food Program would not be allowed into Gaza anymore because of the concerns that, uh,

the aid was either going to or there was complicitcy with Hamas in some degree, and that this mechanism, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, would replace that. And that's kind of what I understood based on what I had read and based on what was explained to us. And also why I did want to be a part of it, I felt that if there's no humanitarian aid, food, water, you know, life, life required things going into Agaza, and there is going to be a method that I wanted to be a part of it. I was on board for the intent and for the mission, not necessarily based on the company or the contracting.

I was not really interested in being an independent contractor necessarily, but I did believe in the purpose of the mission. And specifically in the sense of making sure that it was regular civilians getting it, not Hamas fighters, or there's nothing you can do about that either way, really? So my desire in going in was primarily that human beings, that obviously need food and water survive, that there was food going in. The idea or the concept that it was,

that it would not be, that we would prevent, Hamas from getting it. Again, I find that hard both on the side from the blaming of the UN and saying that Hamas was taking it to the method that we're doing it in any measure of preventing Hamas from getting the aid. It's not like when civilians and the population show up to these sites that they're wearing a Hamas name tag or a Hamas t-shirt.

or they identify themselves as such. Anyone can be Hamas. And that's the challenge of dealing with an insurgent organization where it, yeah, so in terms of our effectiveness in keeping it from Hamas, I would say that if there was rampant taking of the aid from the UN process, then that would have been just as prevalent with this process.

So if it was present, if it was not, it was not. Yeah, I mean, and that's why it's right. It was because that was the excuse, right, for kicking the UN out of there. But then that's going to be always the situation in any war zone where the fighters are obviously, they're the men with the guns. They're going to make sure that they get themselves fed. That's essentially unavoidable. And so, but then I think as you explained to Tucker, with the replacement of the UN system with what you guys were doing instead, you're talking about a small fraction of the amount of aid able to be distributed. It was just nothing like a full replacement, just a fraction of what had been happening.

Not even, not barely, I would say almost not even comparable in the amount of. And this was after two months of outright siege, right? Where they weren't letting any trucks in at all. Then when they finally let the trucks in, it's this agency. Yeah, so prior to May 26th, when we first began delivery, and distribution of food into Gaza. It had been under complete siege, nothing since the mid to end of March, perhaps.

So yeah, two months at that point of there was nothing going in. And when we started, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation was the only organization going in at that time under the presumption under the auspice that, you know, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation's whole stated purpose and position for existing was that we, that the Gazi Humanitarian Foundation could meet and replace the UN process. Okay. So now importantly, you've described that there are, I guess, three major aid sites near the Egyptian border all the way in the south, like all the way in the south,

south of the south. And then south as you can go without crossing the Philadelphia corridor and being in Egypt. Uh-huh. And then just one site in the, I'm saying, wrong, the Nazareem corridor that bisects the strip horizontally, essentially, correct? Uh, it's, uh, correct. Okay. And, and, and you said, I think to Tucker that you had experienced at all of these places because of your particular position, you would get shuffled around more than the other guys.

And so we're able to be eyewitness to how it worked in all the different places. Is that right? Yes, I was, um, so I was not assigned to a particular site. So if I was, If I was a static team or a mobile team that was assigned to site one, you know, my presence or my movement to and from would be to site one and site one exclusively. Based on my position that I had in terms of overall, you know, an operational role, I went to all of the sites and I was a participant in distribution at all of the sites.

So I would say that I got a pretty good, you know, sampling, if you will, of the entire program, the entire mission. So there's so many important points that I want to try to understand better here. I guess just overall on the food and water situation for the population at large, you talked about in your other interviews about how they're just not even delivering water, but then I know there's not very much rain or much capacity. to store rain water. I'm talking about people living in tents

and in rubble in the first place. And then they're passing out dried goods that require cooking, but there's no forest for people to even scavenge for firewood, right? So it doesn't seem like there's any capacity for people to cook, even if they have water.

You soak beans in cold water for a while and eat them, I guess, if they could do that. Then so, but just as Walter Durante said about the Holdermore in the New York Times, times back in 1933, listen, these people are hungry, but not starving. And that's exactly what Israel says about the Gossans now. That like, geez, if, and I guess this is what I'm getting at is

it sounds like there, there perhaps is some kind of disconnect there. There may be something that you're not seeing or something because people can only go five days without water. They can maybe go seven without food or, you know, especially already weakened people. And so, So either there are mass die-offs of people here that are going unreported or there's some kind of food distribution beyond what you were able to see that is sustaining life because there's still something like 2 million people live there. So what are we missing here? No, that's a great question.

I don't know what other mechanism of distribution would be going in. And I know that recently, recently the World Food Program and the World Food Kitchen have begun deliveries again, which have been on the news. But prior to that, with the entire area being closed off, I don't know what the what was going in or how it was going in. In terms of the water situation, I know that from assessments from various UN agencies or from NGOs that are present in Gaza that they too cannot leave, they're essentially stuck in there, that there are some smaller or less reliable sources of water, some hand pumps, small generators that are, you know, they have solar power, things like that, that there is some water, but definitely not on the scale for a population to have reliable sources of water. I know for a fact that

under Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, that we did not distribute water. We did not distribute any at all. Any water to them at all. So the only time that I ever saw a bottle of water on a location is during, during Eid, an organization called the Muslim Brotherhood provided boxes of food during the Eid period. And those, that one time and that one time only on that one period of window, there was bottles of water that were being provided,

but not by GHF. And from the beginning till now, GHF has not has not had a water distribution bottled or tanks with their food distribution and again the food they distribute

in their boxes is all dried food that requires water to cook. And you said you were told by your superiors there that we can't ship in bottles of water simply because it costs too much. Yeah,

the cost and the, you know, considering the because of the weight of water that with having to break, you know, having to distribute the water differently, you can't just fill up the whole truck with water would be too heavy. So with the distribution of how the trucks would be for water, that for one equal truck of water, you could have three trucks of food. And mathematically, that is correct for every three trucks or one truck of water. equivalent, you could do three trucks of food, but that doesn't still negate the point that water is a necessity and the fact that we're giving them food that needs water to cook it, whether you can increase your truckloads or not, you're not giving them the water that they

need to cook it. I mean, I really don't know how, you know, the understanding of giving them, you know, dried rice, dried beans, dried lentils, dried pasta, things that all. require boiling water to cook and there was no water being provided and it was it was clear to me that it was it was less of a logistics issue and it was more driven by by by cost and and also considering the fact that the you know these under the the gaza humanitarian foundation with the with safe free solutions and uG solutions these were these were for profit contract companies. So one thing that was also expressed to me was that in the contract, the requirement from, you know, the Israeli government through the IDF to safe reach solutions that in the

contract, water was not was not contractually in the contract for safe reach solutions to provide. So wasn't in the contracts. So the, you know, if Israel is the customer in the contract and they said, hey, this is the service I want. Here's the contract. Water was not in the contract. I mean, and which, you know, you would think because it's a government contract, they can just, the way it is, right, is it's called cost plus. So whatever they have to do, plus they get a margin on top of that.

And so that's how it works here. I don't know how is Fraley government contracting works. I know that if it were a U.S. government contract or a U.S. contract through the U.S. government, that there are, you know, amendments and variations for that in terms of making changes to the contract is needed, especially when there's something that's critical. How the contractual agreement with the legalities and how it went through with the Israeli government, I cannot speak to that with any type of expertise. Yeah, I guess I just meant, And ultimately, the American taxpayers back in this all up anyway.

So, like, you know, what is it really costing Israel to allow water in there? Nothing, ultimately, you know. I think the water piece is something that could be addressed and fixed quite easily, even if it were, whether it were bottle water or if it was bringing in, you know, even as much as bringing in, which would still not be sufficient, but even though even bringing in large, you know, water trucks, where as the Palestinians come to get the food, they can also fill a container

or have, you know, fill something with some water. There was options that I think would be far superior than to doing nothing. This whole thing is just crazy. The context of this whole conversation, right, is this massive turkey shoot where these people are locked in, like essentially a canned hunt, right? Where it's not a war at all,

even where you talk about this Operation Gideon's Charrots and you say they're breaking the law when they put these aid sites in a combat zone, but then you don't describe any combat other than just the Israelis killing the Palestinians. It doesn't seem like anything's really going on. It's a, it's a, it's a combat zone in terms of how the, you know,

how the, how the Israeli army has identified and operationally and tactically identified the area in terms of actual combat between two combatants in terms of a battle or war, no, I did not see any of that. Yeah, that was the Bill Hicks joke about Iraq War I. Was a war is when two armies are fighting, right? Yeah. But now, and this is something that you said to Tucker as well.

So remind me and clarify again, you spent how much time there and you saw exactly how much Palestinian armed activity? Yeah, so I spent quite a bit of time on and at the sites. So from when we first started ticked off operations on the 26th, I was at or on the sites or operationally involved from the control center at Kareem Shalom right at the border of Gaza every single day until the 14th. of June. Yeah, so resigned on the 13th and I was due to the 14th. And so from May 26th to the 14th

of June, I was I was at the sites on a site directly involved with the site operations for all of those days. And again, I didn't just see, you know, my experience from one site or, or, you know, from the operational center on the radio or the team on the cameras. I was at all four of the sites. So I saw the, the environment around all of them. And not once did I ever see an armed Palestinian, not once did I ever see a Palestinian threat, not to say that that's not present and that's not possible. But I never saw it, nor did I see any threats or combatants in that area. I didn't, at site four up in central Gaza or any of the three sites down in southern Gaza, I did not see any of it,

and certainly not ever seeing an armed Palestinian. So you had mentioned to, I think, to Tucker Carlson, that when you got there, it looked like Terminator 2, which means, in other words, L.A. in the aftermath of an H-bomb strike,

as opposed to, I mean, the obvious direct comparisons, I would guess from your experience being Iraq War II and Afghanistan, and perhaps Iraq War III, I don't know if you went back for the ISIS War, but if you saw Raqa and Mosul, American Air Power completely destroyed those cities

in 2017 and 18 to destroy the caliphate. So, but you're saying that this is nothing like that. This looks more like an atom bomb hit, more like actually Hiroshima. The destruction is, it was as if it's, yeah, it was, it was something akin to if you were to look at comparative photos to World War II in Nagasaki and Hiroshima in the vicinity of the, the epicenter.

It was everything there is just flattened. And if, I mean, there's videos that have come out from some of the crew, the air crew of the aircraft that were delivering air drops into Gaza City over the last week. And there was, there's footage that's come out, kind of an overhead look, and you can see how it's just, as far as the eye can see, it's just devastation. It's just, everything is destroyed. There is no,

what I would consider, you know, a formable, you know, pattern of life that remains in, in Gaza in terms of people able to live. Yeah. Well, I mean, they said at the start of the war, Hey, you guys firebombed Dresden and Tokyo and Hamburg and you nuke Tirochama and Nagasaki, so we can too, even though we're up against the Third Reich and Imperial Japan. And then we outlawed exactly what we had done and said, man, we went too far. We should not have done that.

Now, they're fighting a militia in a prison camp that they already control. And they invoke Dresden and Hamburg as the standard. So it's not like this wasn't all telegram. beforehand, exactly what their intent was. Yeah, for anyone to use the travesties of history as a comparative model to how we should interact and how we should conduct war now, I would say that is shameful. Yeah.

Well, and so please talk a little bit about this because I know you said on Tucker Carlson or he said in your body, I think you skipped this today, that you graduated from West Point, said you're a lieutenant colonel and the army command authority over other guys you're sending in the battle here and so you know at least a thing or two about the laws of war even if you're not a jag yourself right

so um yeah and man you just started on the Tucker Carlson show you started ticking off in your fingers war crimes that they're committing that we know that this is illegal and the Israelis are part of the Geneva conventions with the rest of us right yes that the Israel is signatory to the Geneva Convention.

And so what kind of, you know, not just things that are maybe ugly or unsightly or a means to an end or something, but that you say are clear war crimes that you witness there? Yes, so for an example, you know, people have in their head that war crimes have to, are these,

you know, the, you know, similar to what, what, when ISIS was making videos of, you know, beheading people that, you know, that's what, that's what equates to a war crime. Now, that certainly is a war crime. But, you know, in the conduct of war, there, you know, through the international humanitarian law and the protocols of the Geneva Convention, which dictate these things. And if there's people out there that say, hey, war should have no rules, well, then I would say

that, you know, then that's, that's not how the world operates. We do operate with rules. If we didn't, we wouldn't have Geneva Convention and law of armed conflict and law of armed warfare, which the United States is very much a signatory and a part of. So any argument out there to say, oh, this is a different type, this is a different war and the rules don't apply. I vehemently disagree with that. The rules apply.

But when you look at the, for example, the secure distribution sites themselves, Geneva Convention demands, obligates that we safeguard and protect civilians. civilians on the battlefield and that in doing so we don't intentionally put them in harm's way so is the entire enclave of Gaza a war zone per se

sure it is just like during the Iran or during the wars in Iraq you know all of Iraq was a combat zone but there wasn't active fighting in combat in every part of Iraq just like in Gaza

it's a war zone but there is an active combat in every part of Gaza when the distribution sites, and again, it's odd to me that for the entire enclave, there's only four. And that out of those four, three of them are as far south as you could possibly put them. You would think, well, between central to southern Gaza,

if we're only going to have four sites, we should probably, you know, disperse and distribute them geographically to actually service the population. But no, out of those four sites, it would be, you know, if the entire state of Florida was cut off from the rest of the United States said nothing's going in out of Florida and we blocked the coast, nothing's going in and out. And we said, hey, Floridians, if you want food,

you got to go down to Key West to get it. Like, it's like, why can't we put some of these sites throughout Florida? Why are they all in Key West? so putting them all south in that way you're you know for but they were built deliberately built in areas of active operational combat where you know we're operation Gideon's chariots where they have said we are this is this is where the sites are going to be this is where we're going to distribute food and have people come to our sites um the um yeah that to to to to to establish sites in an operational area of combat

that's designed to service civilians, specifically service the needs of civilians, and to put them in danger that way, is a violation of the protocols of the DG of a convention. Violations of those conventions is a war crime. I mean, that's what defines a war crime. So the definition of a war crime and what the offense is does constitute a war crime.

shooting at the at the at the at the unarmed civilian population they make it you know both uG solutions and the idf and seeming that that you know that because they're you know they they claim that they're not shooting directly into the crowds that they're shooting at their feet or over their heads well then you're already admitting to the fact that you are then also committing a war crime you are you are firing your weapon at an known unarmed non-hombed non-harm still combatant civilian population. Targeting the civilian population and putting them in danger with warning shots to control their movement or to crowd control is a war crime. I mean, I don't know. They even said that we do shoot at them in their direction, but at their

feet and over their head. Okay, well, that still constitutes a war crime. We're not talking about warning shots at an armed combatant. We're talking about warning shots using live ammunition that kills to crowd control an unarmed population, an unarmed civilian population, a declared civilian population. So it's intriguing to me

how little there is understanding of these aspects or they're just completely ignored and the world is okay with Israel ignoring it. Well, now, importantly, you're not the single source for this, and there's been plenty of reports in Israeli media, especially in how Rets did a major story with junior guys saying, and I radioed back and said, officer, are you sure?

And he told me, I said fire. And so, you know, they talked all about this already. You are now an American Special Forces veteran coming and saying, hey, I saw this, what they're reporting already in Horat's, I saw the same thing with my own eyes, offering your American confirmation and collaboration of what was already being reported over there. So that makes it completely beyond any doubt

that this is what's happening here, other than that it just sounds crazy. What do you mean? Crowd control by shooting at them with tanks. And by the way, you said to Tucker, and artillery and mortars as well as machine guns. So would you remind me and explain, because I know I read this once a long time ago,

what's the difference between artillery and mortars? And you're telling me they're using tanks, first of all, machine guns, I guess, tanks, artillery, mortars as crowd control. How in the world does that work? Paint us a picture of what that looks like. And we're talking about desperate, hungry, starving people, livestock being herded around this way, with live fire in this way. I mean, a tank round is a tank round.

I don't have to tell you, but I have to say it out loud to try to get my own head around how this is supposed to work. Yeah, so in terms of, let's start with the artillery and the mortar. So your mortar rounds have a higher angle trajectory than artillery rounds. Artillery rounds can reach much greater distances, and they fire at more of a, what I would call a longer parabolic arc, whereas your mortar rounds are designed for high angle, high angle firing.

But just a case in point at the intersection of the coastal corridor along the Mediterranean coast, there's a corridor that the civilians are limited to traveling on in terms of that's where they can travel to go north-south. And then the Moran corridor that connects to that for where they can travel east-west in order to get to the sites. to the south.

So at the intersection of the Marag for a door and the coastal road, there's a large intersection. It's an area where typically when the civilians are coming down where they get stopped and they just queue in this massive crowd while the sites are being prepared in terms of putting the aid on the site and getting the site ready. And there is a target reference point. They predetermined on the map target reference point where a TRP on that specific location,

on that intersection, there is a registered target for mortars and artillery where they, when the crowd is queued up there, they will fire mortars into that intersection to what I would call almost like area denial. So you can use mortars and artillery to keep people out of an area. And that was, and that's how they used artillery. and mortar fire. Same methodology in terms of how they use a tank fire where they would fire the

tank into a berm or fire the tank into an area further away to keep people from going to that area. So it was the, so yes, the use of

artillery and mortar rounds and tank rounds and especially the use of machine guns, firing the machine guns to to establish almost like a line in the sand, so to speak, you know, like firing a machine gun into the ground at a certain area to keep people being close to it, or at times firing near their feet or close to their feet or firing right over their heads. And when you have a combination of that many people, that many human beings in an area where it's not just this flat, nice

piece of ground, there's rubble and there's undulating terrain and there's undulating terrain and There's, you know, if you're, if you're shooting, you think you're shooting over the head at this group here, right over the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the bullet's going to be going right into a crowd. Um, it's, it's also, it's also just a, uh, uh, irresponsible and negligent practice to use warning shots, which are live ammunition using warning shots against an, an unarmed civilian. population using warning shots if it were with a combatant you know a an enemy combatant who has you know they're they've put down their weapons and they're no longer fighting and their hands are up in the air and you're you're they're at a distance and you're saying hey stop and they don't you fire a warning shot i mean that we're talking about combatants these are these are unarmed starving civilians and oh by the way uG solutions personnel are in israel on a tour

what authority do we have to shoot at anybody well those of you who listen to me tell you to listen to mike swanson at wall street window and tim fry at robertson roberts brokerage ink had bought a bunch of gold must be doing great right now and should probably donate to the libertarian institute roberts and roberts is the best it's a matter of trust there's no flashy gimmicks risky schemes or bait-and-switch scams here Robertson roberts is here to help you protect your wealth Any portfolio ought to have a solid percentage in metals. For us Austrian school types, even more. Go to Roberts & Roberts Brokerage Inc. at RRBI.co to protect yourself from monetary inflation.

That's rrbi.c.co. Hey, y'all, libertosbella.com is where you get Scott Horton's show and Libertarian Institute shirts, sweatshirts, mugs, and stickers and things, including the great top lobstas designs as well. See, that way it says on your shirt, why you're so smart. Libertas Bella, from the same great folks who bring you ammo.com for all your ammunition needs, too. That's Libertasbella.com Hey, y'all, I've been working on the audiobook of my new book, Provoked, how Washington started the new Cold War with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine.

I've now finished and posted part three of the audio book to my substack and Patreon at Scott Horton Show.com and Patreon.com slash Scott Horton Show. So that finishes all of George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton. I know there's still a long way to go, but just these first two chapters are almost 10 hours of audio to get you started. I promise I'm doing the rest as fast as I can. Get the audiobook of Provoked first. Subscribe at Scott Horton Show.com or Patreon.com slash Scott Horton Show. Yeah, I mean, there's a question of legal liability there, but, you know, hopefully you got a good lawyer here.

So, now, and you pointed this out on the Tucker show, too, that, look, they could just put up a sign or they could put up ropes, right? It doesn't have to be a velvet rope, but like, I just went to saw Willie Nelson play on the fourth, and there's an endless number of, how much could they cost, like, $20, maybe $50 a piece, these sort of just metal bike rack-looking barricades that just show you go this way, right? and so and then this is something else that you talked about too was they line them all up and then they just open the gate you call the eight minutes of chaos there instead of letting a few people threw out of time or any kind of orderly thing and then they shoot at them all to tell them which way to go so this all sounds very deliberate right this sounds insane I mean in fact you had said that well I think these guys are just very untrained reserved conscripts but it this sounds you know Norman Viglstein says it sounds like a mouse trap

You lure these starving people in And then they blast them away And they feed them in this chaotic way If you're going to get a sack of wheat at all You're going to have to stab somebody for it Or something at this point People are hungry enough They're turning on each other

Them and their own kids first And they'll fight over it You know we've seen reports of that Fist Fights breaking out And it's like they're deliberately Making a riot out of the thing Like it's just funny or what Yeah well the

How the sites are located and where the sites are designed, those are definitely deliberate. The process of queuing thousands of people at a point and then releasing them all at once in this mass wave of human beings, like that is also deliberate. So the using warning shots,

the shooting at the crowds to control the crowd, that's also deliberate. it. And in retort to the points that have been made against me by those that say there's nothing wrong with that, you know, their response to those things are that, well, they, they don't, they don't, we're shooting warning shots. We're not trying to kill them. Like, okay, but when you're shooting warning shots at an unarmed population, violation of a genetic convention already, so that's a war crime, but when you're doing it and the people you have behind the gun aren't, trained in proficient in that weapon system and also to consider that a machine gun is an

area weapon it's not a pinpoint fine you know hitting hitting a target that you know precisely it's an area weapon so when you take an area weapon with a gunner on it that hasn't trained that isn't proficient and you're deliberately shooting warning shots where you're deliberately shooting in the direction at you know at the crowd whether it's at their feet or over their head combining all those things together, you're putting bullet to the crowd. That's just a fact. So do I think that there

that every Israeli soldier is sitting there behind a machine gun and they are intentionally shooting at somebody? Some of them very well may be. I mean, we know that, that the Israelis soldiers have come forth and said that. But just taking away to consideration

if they were sitting there doing it intentionally, they're shooting an area-fire machine-gun weapon at unarmed civilians intending to hit their feet and over their head. And yet at every distribution we've had, every single distribution, there are people that are known to be, there are people that are known to be that, that are,

that die. Like this is no. The IDF even say that so, you know, so and so many people died or Nasser Hospital received dead patients. How else would they be, how else would they be dying? For the IDF,

well, for anyone else to say that, well, that's that's bull it's it's not Hamas they're getting shot by these massive amounts of warning shots and area denial fire by mortars and artillery rounds a mortar round 120 millimeter mortar round when it hits you know it doesn't just hit that spot and that's the only thing it destroys it has a kill radius of 80 meters that's 240 feet a kill radius so from where that mortar hits 240 feet around, it can kill something within that. So we're using area weapons for air denial, dropping them in a place that can, that you can kill someone out to 240 feet away.

And now, so, I mean, you're there for a little more than two weeks in a row it sounds like, right? I get that right from the very end of May through the middle of June. A little more than two weeks. Yeah. And so how many of these maskers did you see? How many civilians did you see killed in these ways? The, this process of shooting at them as they came in to get them off the site, hitting them with stun grenades and tear gas and firing warning shots on them on the site.

And when they get off the site, firing at them to keep them to keep them moving away from the site and using firing, you know, shooting weapons at them, keep them moving. That happened every day. That was every day, every site, that method. In terms of seeing people get actually killed, I mean, I did witness on the 2nd of June, the woman that was hit directly in the side of the head with a high-velocity piece of metal off of a stun grenade. I saw the individual on the 29th of May that was getting shot at by UG Solutions,

contractor who said they were just warning shots being fired into into that crowd and that same method where a man dropped to the ground and didn't loop. You, GHF would retort by saying, oh, well, you know, that the guy that, you know, they don't deny that those things happen. They make excuses for it. Oh, well, the woman that got hit in the head with a stun grenade, you know, we, her, her injury was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was, was being nailed in the head with a metal chunk of a high velocity grenade. Okay, well, that's, that's, that's rich.

Or the, the guy he's being shot at, um, bullets flying in his direction, bullets flying at his feet, bullet flying over his head, and he dropped up to the ground. Um, and their excuses, oh, well, uh, you don't know that if he was shot. He may have just been, he may have just been taking a break. He may have been tired from walking and he was taking a break. It's like, okay, like, it's, the excuses are, are quite ridiculous. And, and again, you've said this, and I'll say it again, that there's, then there's my testimony, there's my witness testimony, and then there's also video, there's also pictures, but then

there's also the testimony of IDF soldiers themselves, like actual IDF soldiers that are coming forward and saying that they were, they were told to do these things or that they did do these things. And then you have the testimony of, of these doctors that are, in Gaza all the time that see this every day. So, you know, the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation's position is that me, the IDF, doctors, surgeons, NGOs, volunteers that are in there in Gaza. All of us are Hamas, and all of us are just spinning

some Hamas narrative, that all of us are complicit in this big Hamas narrative, that surely it can't be true. Or is it, or is the reality, is that the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is, lying like well you know so and and now so but you talked about i think with tucker you said that there is a scene where it's like i guess early in the morning pre-dawn the people are flooding in now and lining up at the gate and as they're coming in the soldiers are shooting over their heads uh supposedly right crowd control and then the sum comes up and there's 20 30 bodies laying along

the path you saw that with your own eyes so on the on the on the on the on the 28th of may as they were leaving the the group that was leaving that that ran that was panicking off the site that ran into the the shooting the the the machine gun fire um i didn't see 20 to 30 that the the specific event that i was talking about with the with the 20 that the the exact number that was reported is 20. That incident happened on the 16th of July at site number three. And that incident happened on the site where there were so many people there and a stampede started. Panic set in and a stampede started. And the aftermath of that was 20 Palestinians dead. And that report and that number didn't didn't come from me or come from a whistleblower or come from that that came

from GHF themselves they they've published that today 20 people died not near the site not close to the site on the site and then there were reports that they were shot rather than trampled is that it I don't know about that I know from what I what I saw in the report they were all trampled to death and or suffocated. Now, the Medicines on Frontiers, their report, their latest report, is that there was, that there were bullet that these people had bullet wounds.

They had, you know, they had, that there wasn't just signs of stampede or signs of suffocation, although that that did occur, that some did have bullet wounds. So that's a, that's a separate MSF, Nassar Hospital testimony, in a report to that, to that incident on that day.

To my knowledge, no one, no one is claiming or no one has said that those 20 people on site three that day were, were shot. Now, what, what GHF says is that a stampede or the excitement on the site that day was, was instigated by Hamas. Again, how do you know, I mean, how can you, how can you say that with any type of, you know, with any type of seriousness. It was, I mean, was the guy, did the guy jump up out of the crowd and rip off his normal shirt and get a Hamas uniform on?

And he was like, I'm Hamas now. I mean, someone could have incited it or it could have been for the fact that the, when you throw stun grenades and pepper spray and tear gas into a crowd of people that are very crowded and pranked into a location, that could start a stampede. Right. And I'm sorry because, you know,

I think this point got lost in our technical difficulties, Tony. But when we were talking about the decimation of the strip, The point is that these people have no ability to sustain their own lives at all. They're not allowed to fish in their own sea. They're cut off from all of their farmland. Their towns and all their markets have been completely decimated off the face of the year. So this is the one and only game in town, essentially, if you want something to eat. And so they're forcing all these people into this position in the first place.

And then this is the form, the stampede that they create and the rest of it. Now, the story that you talk about where the young boy was shot. Can you tell that again? And you don't have to focus too much on, you know, the background. Everybody, I think, knows by this time that this kid had come and thanked you for the food, even though you weren't the one who fed him, but we get it. And then he had been such a sweet kid. And then he took off and they started fire and he ran, dropped all his food anyway.

And then the next thing you know, he's, I guess what, on the other side of the berm, and the IDF has decided to mask her however many people, including him. you saw his dead body there and all that. Can you tell us exactly what happened there, please? Yeah, and again, I don't, I don't know how many were injured and killed on that, because I didn't, you know, I didn't, again, I, I can't leave, we can't leave the perimeter of, I can be on the berm, but I can't go past the site out into IDF land. So in terms of being able to count, but the, the IDF were already firing, the IDF were firing at

the first part of the crowd that had left that was on the Morav Corridor, which is the military corridor in the south that takes you to the coast. And the IDF were shooting in their direction already, you know, just doing the normal, their typical, I wouldn't call it normal, but their typical practice of shooting

at, you know, shooting over the head, shooting at the feet of the crowd that was already moving. So they were already shooting. So when this group of, this last group was leaving the site, because they were pushed off later and they were panicking and running the machine gun bullets, if you will, are already in the air flying

and this group as they're running runs into that wall of bullets, if you will. And Amir was amongst them lying on the ground out on the site. Now, did I see his, did I see his body? Did I go out there and conduct a triage or medical assessment? No, I will not, but a 10-year-old boy

who gets hit with a 7.62 millimeter round out of a machine gun. Did he, did he dot? And again, what I'm calling for here, what I've been calling for here is not me saying like, oh, yeah, that kid's definitely dead. My call is that these things need to be investigated to just say, like, it's actually,

it's my sincere hope that he isn't, dead but i i do know that that his mother hasn't seen him since the 28th of may since the last time i saw him when he was there so where is he you know where where is he yeah dead or alive there's no accountability even for for where is exactly dead dead are alive there's there's no accountability so um where where is he and and if the if the if the responses oh well we don't know Well, from what I know, I saw the young boy running off of a site, last known saw him, he and others ran into a hail of machine gun bullets, and he was lying on the ground, not moving.

And he didn't lie on the ground like he was laying down to take a nap, or that he was laying down to take cover. He was running scared and dropped to the ground. Like, imagine if you will, hunting and your animal is in full sprint, and when you shoot it, it drops the ground. He didn't stop and take cover. He dropped to the ground. So if he's not dead, then where is he?

Because his mother hasn't seen him. If he, you know, so, but offer the alternate, offer the alternate reality here. Where is he? They're saying they don't, no one, the IDF and GHF don't deny. Don't deny that that boy was there that day. The GHF and the IDF don't deny that the civilians were running off the site and they were shooting warning shots at them along the Morah Corridor. They don't deny that.

They don't deny that on that day in that incident that some of the civilians that were running got hit. Nasser Hospital even reported on that same day, that exact same day, a few hours after distribution that dead bodies, people, family members or other people had brought wounded or dead to Nasser Hospital that were at site number three. So at site number two. So the, you know, to say that, that, oh, that doesn't have, they haven't denied any of.

They acknowledge it all. And from what I saw, one of the people amongst those that was confirmed to be dead was this young boy. And, you know, if they say, oh, that's not true, then okay, where, then where is he? Where is he? Because, you know, it's not like I'm just saying he, where is he? His mother has been looking for him.

His mother has asked where, where is my son? So if she can't find him in the last place I saw him was there lying on the ground, then where is he? So regardless of the point, right, it's like, is that our level of, you know, oh, we displaced a boy and separated from his face. family and scared him to death by shooting at him. Ah, that's okay. He didn't die, did he? Well, that's, that's all fine, then. Then everything else is fine. No, the fact of whether or not he's dead or not doesn't

excuse the behavior and the war crimes leading up to that. It is, it is a war crime to shoot at an unarmed population, whether you kill them or not. The act is a war crime. It's like, you know, if I attempt to murder somebody and they don't die, I can still get charged with attempted murder. And that's the thing about this is people got to realize there's a lot of Amir's in this so-called war, this slaughter. They have killed tens of thousands of children in this same. Hundreds and hundreds of Amir's. Yeah.

Listen, so you did the BBC, and if I recollect it, correct, the next thing you did was the Tucker Carlson show. And he told you, well, they're going to attack you. And, of course, the reason why is. It's because of what you say is so important, but it's also who you are and the authority with which you speak is the kind of thing that Israel's partisans know. And that's not a liberal or conservative thing, but just Israel's partisans know that this is the kind of guy who can really change the argument. And I've already heard anecdotes about people's Zionist father now really are thinking

about this a second time. now that they've heard Colonel Aguilar tell his side of the story here, this is an authoritative source. This is not a guy who's some, what, Democratic Party operative trying to make Donald Trump look bad or any kind of thing. They know that's not true. They can take one look at you, take one listen to you. They can see your conversations, especially with Tucker Carlson.

They know that's not what's going on here. And so maybe it's possible, despite the fact that people I don't like might agree, like here's someone I can like and respect who is telling me this as the authoritative source maybe it's time for me to stop and listen so that's obviously why they're attacking you and we'll continue to attack you but it doesn't look like they've got much to go on here

they will continue to attack me and again one of the one of the attacks which was these attacks against me they're first of all for Gaza Humanitarian Foundation to say well and Mr. Aguilar, I couldn't even at these sites.

But then they show pictures in their, you know, here's a site, here's a site. I took those pictures. It's like the pictures that they're using to get their message with their sites, I took those pictures on UG Solutions press release website. They have a link that shows, oh, here's a distribution day and, you know, discredits Mr. Aguilar, who wasn't even there. the video they're using I filmed

I filmed that video I'm like are you are you kidding it's outlandish yeah they've also you know they've attacked my they've attacked my family

saying that you know my my I'm a I abused my wife and that we're divorced and I'm married to somebody else and this and that my wife and I've been married for 17 years

she's she's downstairs right now with my son coloring in a coloring book like we've been married for 17 years. So some of these things that when we saw it, my wife and I were like, oh, man, that happened. Where were we? Yeah. Well, as long as you mentioned that, I want to, I want to mention a friend of mine, Mel from Twitter. She's the village crazy lady. And she happened to be, she happens to be

from right near where you live and is a lawyer, I think, and knows everything about the justice system there. So when they started posting these fake mugshots of your fake arrest record, she immediately debunked it because she had the knowledge and the skills of the county lines and all the jurisdictions and she knew what the case numbers look like and how all these things and she went and thoroughly debunk that as a Niger uranium forgery just absolute scam completely fake and destroyed that in one day so people can look her up on eggs and see the the truth in that how in today's day and age how easy how easy it is to to docks or or or or or or share someone I would ask people is that they, you know, people that go to the United States Military Academy

that live a life of duty honor country that graduate from there into the Army, I think I think have a pretty good measure of integrity and honesty. In fact, the honor code of a cadet will not live cheat, steal, nor tolerate those who do. So did I just fake it for four years? I mean, so, you know, graduating from the United States Military Academy and then being in the Army for over two decades being entrusted with command positions like so does does so what i would ask the american people is look at the body of evidence don't look at the the the because again a lot of the i would say all of the people that are trashing me do it from behind an anonymous twitter handle or x handle whatever whatever it's called i haven't seen anyone come on the record and and

and and to my face on the record or on putting in their name on the line say X, Y, and Z. You notice even with the these sworens, these affidavits that the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation put out with these people saying that, oh, he was hard to get along with but this and that. No,

no name. So, I mean, here, like I've said before, here I am on the record, fully open. You can, you know, knowing that I'm going to get smeared and I'm going to get, and I'm going to get, you know, trashed online. And what I

what I've said again is that that's okay because I'm not the only one that has seen what I have seen. I am not the only one that knows what I know. Others have seen it. Others know it. And others are coming behind me. Others are going to speak up. Yeah. And when they do, oh, GHF has extinguished all of their excuse bullets on me. Oh, it was spruncle fired employee. Oh, he lacks character And isn't that, okay, fire away bury me in it, fire away. I'll sacrifice myself and you can bury me

because for the people that are coming after me, you can't use that excuse on them. What are you just going to keep using? Everybody's a disgruntled line. Right. You know, Hamas supporter. So they didn't come after me all they want and I welcome it because

at the end of the day, you know, one, it's not true. two, I have my family, I have those that love me. What somebody online behind a Twitter handle thinks of me, I care zero. Yeah. Well, and look, it's important, too, that you've been in the army this whole time, which means that, you know, whatever political opinions you have, you know, being a soldier means that you mostly don't focus on that.

That's sort of everybody else's job to run the democracy and then send you off on your missions and this and that kind of thing. So you're not really tainted in any kind of real way as leaning too far right or too far left in any kind of thing. You're just with the facts, Army Man, telling his story, and that's all there is. And there's not much to go on to smear you other than forgeries and things like that. So I think you're going to do just fine there as long as, you know, just stick to those facts and do exactly what you're doing.

They want to smear me with quote unquote forgeries. Again, it's like, how do you, how do I forge something? thing that has my own signature on it. Like, okay, I'd forge my own signature. But the documents themselves that all have the metadata and everything else. And again, what I will say. Oh, I meant like your arrest record there, not your pictures. Oh, those type of things.

Yeah, yeah. That's all they got on you, stuff they got to make up. Yeah. Which is fine. I don't care. Yeah. It's funny. Yeah, it's a little bit entertaining, right?

Yeah, they had. Like, wow, that's my, yeah, my wife and I are both looking at it. Like, oh, that's interesting. When did that? Yeah. So can you tell us anything more about, like, maybe at least when we can expect these other people to come forward? So some already have, and they have done so anonymously. So there's been other, you know, there's been other stories out there from, you know, various news agencies quoting, you know, these multiple contractors or, you know, another contractor that remains anonymous.

Those aren't me. So. Oh, okay. I hadn't seen those stories, but they're essentially already confirming that you're right and saying he's a good guy or et cetera, et cetera, like that to the AP, just with their name with help. Well, not necessarily saying, you know, talking about me, but confirming the things that I've said in terms of the indiscriminate shooting, the lack of rules of engagement and standard operating procedures, the way how the sites were built in a very dangerous way, the operations and how they were ran. like you happen to remember which do you happen to remember which articles uh mentioned that or

had that confirmation in there or like which agency so right now there was uh there was an article and uh it would be really good to post these so people can see it too there was an article in a uh a publication called zateo and this was like back in june early june where another contractor not not me don't even know the guy um he he resigned in protest over what he saw on the site number on the site on the first day he resigned i see that here uh i don't know i don't know who he is but i know that um there was a uh uh an anonymous article in zateo um that uh that that someone that resigned in in early june wrote about gh about the operation that that's been published early june time thing again that that was

me um there's a there's a interview on a on a platform called i tv or israeli tv of a contractor who's being interviewed who talks about the the lack of rules the the just winged attitude who also who was who also was at the same site i was i i know he was at the same site i was i don't know him but he because he also recalls the incident where the tank hit the car so um you have this guy that that's not me in that in that i TV interview. That is another contractor who's also not the guy that did the anonymous piece in early June. And then you've got even in the pieces they've released my name in, it's not just me. They say, you know, you know, two contractors to include Mr. Anthony Aguilar, because I'm on

the record. So just right there, there's myself and there's three others that have already in some former fashion provided information. And that last one, that would be the BBC or who was it that said that had you and two others. So there's an AP article that came out early July and then if you look at the latest article there's another article from a couple outlets about the

leadership in the in the UG Solutions architecture. The leader of the UG Solutions contract is a senior officer in the infidels motorcycle club.

so there was a piece that came out on that and there's another contractor as a source in there who's my name's mentioned in it but there's another contractor who I don't know who it is but it's not me so just there already there's four of us that and the

contract ends the 90 day contract ends on the 21st of August after the 21st of August and everybody is you know released from their contract and they're not making that that $1,380 to $1,500 a day anymore. And they have to look at themselves in the mirror.

Mark my words. There are going to be people coming forward that share the things that they've seen. Yep. All right. Well, listen, man. Thank you very much for your time on the show, Tony. I really appreciate you coming on

and telling us your story here. It's a very crucial one. No, I appreciate your platform. And I thank you for the invite and thank you for all you do. and it's been a good discussion. So thank you, sir. All right, you guys.

That is Tony Aguilar, Lieutenant Colonel in the U.S. Army, retired. Thanks for listening to Scott Horton Show, which can be heard on APS Radio News at Scott Horton.org, Scott Horton Show.com, and the Libertarian Institute at Libertarian Institute.org.