Seeds And Their People - EP. 21: Haiqal’s Garden - Indonesian vegetables in South Philly

Episode Date: June 9, 2023

In the first week of June 2023, I finally visited Haiqal's Garden in South Philadelphia to speak with Hani White and Syarif Syaifulloh about their beloved Indonesian food plants, food culture, and life stories. We met five years ago at Sky Cafe, an Indonesian restaurant where Hani curated a storied vegetarian meal for our group, and then took us a few doors down to Hung Vuong, an Asian grocery store where she gave us a tour of her favorite vegetables from Indonesia. Since then, her family has visited our Truelove Seeds farm, traded seeds and plants with us, and helped us identify one of the plants we purchased at the Cambodian market in FDR Park: Kenikir or Ulam Raja! Finally, our son Bryan wanted to ask their son Haiqal some questions after reading the children's book featuring him and his dad - so he did! Listen to the end to hear their back and forth.  SEED STORIES TOLD IN THIS EPISODE: Kangkung, Water Spinach Cayenne Pepper, Sambal Red Spinach, Red Amaranth, Pink Soup Lime Leaves Kenikir, Ulam Raja, King's Salad Lemongrass Moringa Banana Bitter Melon Lily Persimmon Kale Beetroot Grape leaves Honey Fig Purple Long Bean (coming soon!) MORE INFO FROM THIS EPISODE: Haiqal's Garden (Facebook) Haiqal's Garden (Children's Book) Morning Circle Media Hardena Restaurant Mural featuring Haiqal's Garden (top right) on Hardena Restaurant Sky Cafe Hung Vuong Food Market ABOUT: Seeds And Their People is a radio show where we feature seed stories told by the people who truly love them. Hosted by Owen Taylor of Truelove Seeds and Chris Bolden-Newsome of Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram’s Garden. trueloveseeds.com/blogs/satpradio   FIND OWEN HERE: Truelove Seeds Facebook  |  Instagram  |  Twitter   FIND CHRIS HERE: Sankofa Community Farm at Bartram’s Garden   THANKS TO: Syarif Syaifulloh, Hani White, and Haiqal Syaifulloh Ruth Kaaserer  Lacey Walker :) 

I was just whacking at normal. Welcome to Seeds and their people. I'm Chris Bolden Newsom, farmer and co-director of Sancofa Farm at Bartram's Garden in Sunny Southwest Philadelphia. And I'm Owen Taylor, seed keeper and farmer at True Love Seeds. We're a seed company offering culturally important seeds grown by farmers who are committed to cultural. preservation, food sovereignty, and sustainable agriculture. This podcast is supported by True Love Seeds and now also you. If you'd like to support our storytelling and seedkeeping, you can do so at patreon.com slash true love seeds. And thank you so much to our newest patron member, Shomriel.

This episode features Sharif Shai Fulot and Honey White of Haikal's Garden. Originally from Java, Indonesia, they have been growing food and flowers in their yard in South Philadelphia for the past 13 years. Their garden is named for their middle son, Heikal, who you will hear at the end of the episode, answering questions from our son, Brian. They published a children's book in Indonesian and English about Sharif and Haikal's work in their garden, and the two of them were recently featured on a mural at one of our favorite restaurants in Philadelphia, Hardina. The mural lifts up the Indonesian immigrant experience showcasing traditional design, dance, weaving, and more, along with depictions of life in Philadelphia. This episode, we're not going to answer any listener questions, and we're going to just briefly mention why we really enjoyed this particular episode so that we can get right to it. Well, this was a very exciting interview, not least because we know. know this family. We knew honey first. She's just such a wonderful and loving presence. And then to

meet her wonderful husband and son, hi Carl, I think that for me, one of the things that I really liked about this, I love food stories. And I love it that, you know, she talks so much about food. And it's interesting, the dynamic that he talks a lot about the agricultural aspect, the horticultural aspect. And honey does as well. But honey really goes into the. the food and does such a brilliant job describing the lovely products that are made from some of their traditional foods. And I was struck by, you know, again, how many of the foods of Indonesia, at least the ones that she mentioned, and I'm sure many more, are really also shared by people of the African diaspora. You know, my heart lit up to hear that they eat the spinach

and the Ameran that's also known as Kalaloo. in Jamaica, like I say, eat the red version of it. But either way, that was very exciting. And just, you know, just some of the really, really interesting ways that they prepare the foods. And I love Indonesian food. And so it was really a gift to hear a little bit more about how some of it was made and its importance in Indonesian family life and culture. Some of those African-Asian connections also include the Long Bean,

which is an African species, Vignaculata, that kind of made its way over thousands of years east, and became the long bean from the black IP. The bitter melon is an African species, correct? Yes, absolutely, yeah, the bitter melon, I was going to say that, and if I'm not mistaken, they use the same variety of bitter melon that is used largely in the African diaspora. I always call it the African or the Indian bitter melon,

but it's a spiky one. as opposed to sort of the smooth, brain-like one that is eaten throughout a lot of East Asia. I was also very glad to hear the really touching stories about the father farmers, because that really applies to us, as dads who are farmers as well. And it made me think of my dad, who is a farmer, of course, and his father and all the way back. and your grandfather, Owen, but just to hear this beautiful description of the role of men in teaching their kids, you know, in this case their sons, the power of farming, honoring and reverencing the earth, and that is being a part, you know, sort of of their work as as complete men in the world. to provide for and take care of and to care for the earth while providing, you know, these crops for their families that was very touching to me. And it meant a lot to hear that.

Brother Sharif is such a humble and honorable man as well. So to hear those stories and to connect them to him and his own really powerful life story of which we only got a tidbit that for me was very remarkable. Yeah, one note. I wanted the listeners to hear Sharif's voice in this episode, so I left his voice when speaking Indonesian. His answers are brief, and Hani elaborates and interprets them so beautifully. So please enjoy. Now we're going to transport you to their backyard garden, where we sat surrounded by beloved plants and the ambiance of a South Philly neighborhood of brick row homes. We start our interview

talking about a green vining plant called Chin Chau, or Cyclia Barbata. So we made drinks like this, like gelatinous, green stuff. What's the gelatinous stuff? From the leaves.

Yeah. I don't really like call it gelatin, because when you talk about gelatin, you think about a pig and a cow like this is like totally from a plan right but like it's it's totally like a gelatin they just translated as a jelly like a grass jelly green grass jelly but we call it Chinchao yeah C-I-N-C-A-U and it's very popular throughout Southeast Asia it's it's really good for like a family activities usually we have our kids harvest it and we mash it with our hands together and they enjoyed it so

much sometimes we just make the entire plan like we take everything and then they grow with in the next couple days like in a week even like the young leaves already shut out so sometimes summertime we do it three four times and it's really good drinks for summer very refreshing very calming and a lot of time when people have a stomach problem does it make flowers and seeds here we got the seed from Indonesia but it's actually you could cut it and grow it from the cutting yeah so the potential of kind of like have a more and more is actually amazing from the cutting it's actually faster than from the seed oh well if you ever have extra cuttings I would love to grow some yeah definitely Definitely.

Well, let's hear who we are. I'd love to if you could share your names and tell us a little bit about where we are right now. Where now? Okay. My name is Shari Shafpuloh. My name is Shariqvulah. I'm from Indonesia from Java, Java, Maglang. I live now is Philadelphia.

My name is Honey. I'm a Sharif wife, mother of the way. We've been here in South Philadelphia since 2001. And of course, when he came to United States, he came to Los Angeles. I landed in Florida. We do not know each other. Then he traveled to a multiple different state for work. I moved to Philadelphia.

And 13 years ago, we get married and we start our garden together. Wow. And how did you two meet? How we met? The mosque? Yeah. I meet the masjid. Yeah, we met through our mosque.

We have a lot of gathering. It's actually very funny story because like his mom actually calling him back. He, yeah, back then. His mom said like, Sharif, coming back home, you've been in United States for so long. I miss you and it's time for you to get married. it right and and he's like okay mommy he's like a such a good family person and then he tell that story to our imam which is like the pastor of the mosque right it's like hey I'm going home to Indonesia my mom missed me she have girl for me to marry and it's like

it's time to say goodbye to everyone right and the the Imam say like wait you want to go home because you miss your mom or you want to go home because you want to get married it's like all of that right and it's like okay which one is the priority and he's like I don't know and the imam said like if you want to get married you don't need to go home there is plenty of available ladies in this community and and he was like who's available I don't see anyone available and I meet the honey I just like puasa I leave you here a long time ago and then I never have the girlfriend and then after

that I want to make in Kamu imbaedh. So what he says basically I guess the priority is the marriage because my mom think that I'm old enough if I do not get married I will never ever get married and the imam say like oh if that's the case there is plenty of available and he say that like I've been doing fasting meaning that fasting that like he never have any sex he's basically restrictive himself he reserved himself for the right person and then he said that like okay if you think as an imam this is something that I really need to do then show me the way this is maybe my my way to find my soulmate and we end

up married after like a couple of weeks after that conversation with Imam. Wow, a couple weeks later. A couple weeks later. Wow, look at you now, beautiful life. He's really bold. He's like when first time we met, he's like, hey, I'm not looking for a girlfriend. I'm looking for a wife. Like the first time we kind of like really have a coffee together. He's like, I just want to be straightforward. Would you be my wife? And I was like, look at him, I'm like, you do not know me and I do not know you. What are you talking about? I'm almost running away. But he's like, this is the ultimatum from my mom and from the imam.

And I was like, in Indonesia we respected our parents a lot. We respected our imam a lot. So when he say that, it's like such a weight, right? Such a, like weight doesn't mean that like it's a bad weight. It's such an honor. And I was like, wait a minute, this is like a really, he's telling such an honor. And like, it's like a gift, right? So he's like, here is my gift.

It's your choice to either take it, unwrap it, or just, no, thank you. That gifts is not for me. So I tell him to give me a couple days and turn to become a couple weeks. And then I have multiple dreams. Basically I call for the universe. I'm like I'm praying a lot. I'm like, is this a real gift or is it some just some crazy dude that like get ultimatum from his mom. Right. And it's just weird that how the universe kind of like tell me like, move forward. It's okay. You'll be fine. Wow. Thank you for sharing that story. That is very beautiful. I love when the dreams tell us where to go. I know, right? Yeah. And the moms. And the moms. Yeah. The mom's like, come home. now yeah did you know that you would be in in the midst of these beautiful

gardens as part of this deal so it's so funny right he was living with his yeah yeah yeah um yeah um what umar umar um mar so he has like uh african-amer american a very wise old gentleman he's like 78 now like almost eight right so he's been living with this gentleman like renting a couch for him because he do not want to live in South Philly because he's he like greenery so much so it's in around like upper Derby area so very quiet have a lot of greenery you want to live in that kind of area because he think that South Philly is so so much concrete so less green so busy I don't want it I want to

be somewhere like a lot of green And then I purchased this home 2005, 2006, and I do nothing. It's just like the neighbor, just like grass, right? Nothing. Driving up here, I came all the way up 32nd Street. Right. And it's just grass, grass, grass, grass, grass, grass, grass. Brick row houses, mostly, and grass, grass, grass, and then I knew where I was at your house.

Because it's covered in beautiful plants, the lilac, the hostas, the peonies, you know. yeah yeah so yeah and then um came here and he started looking and he's like there is so much that we could do here i'm like so much what is it he started with one row over here one step one step by step one meter one meter two meter three meter like each year a little more yeah yeah but like uh the third year he started like uh finish the entire set like uh finish the entire and this part and like we do not know how to grow a thing in a different country we know how to grow a little thing in Indonesia but because his love of greens and he loves of plant and you just learn from YouTube right YouTube

and then and I don't learn to learn and then and trial and error basically yes a lot error error one year I try to error error but just too much things painting, he's always gagged, I'll even though it's not successful, he's like repeating the process and just try multiple different way. This area is a very, like back then it's like what do you call that? Section 8 high-rise building area.

Back then they call it Tasker House. So it's like three high-rise building all Section 8 and then they knock it down, it down they made it as a Grace Ferry estate they changed the concept instead of like one concentrated section 8 area they blend it to homeowner section 8 homeowner section 8 so you did all of this over how many years gosh 13 years yes and so you didn't come to America knowing already how to grow things you learned no

to plant here. Yeah, I plan here. Yeah, I don't know the plan. I am the plan, the seed, always just try and error, right? And then I was by, go to somewhere, buy, like, to think like this. I see you, okay, right, just sample this, like this. And then I have the seed from the, like, my country, right? And then the organic, I play, where the better?

And then I try, that way, only like two months, so quick, and then already, he had the uh what panena what the oh the flowers a flower and then have the harvest two months but uh I see it my slave no this better a long time like three months four months but it's too much this is a little bit so many, so basically what he tried to say is like during this 13 years he sometimes comparing the seed that he grow the plant that he grew from seeds or the plant that he purchased from a store right and then see like which one that he could grow faster better and like even

though sometimes one is a faster but not necessarily give abundance as the other one so he he always keep open mind like trying multiple different ways on how to grow. And then I always buy two. Two from the other store and then for me too. And then I give it compost. One compost, one compost, one no compost. And then me, do it myself. When the compost, no compost. Where the better? Okay. Science. Science experiments. Yes. And then then compost, where the better? Not compost, where the better? Like this. And now I know everything.

Good. And you teach people through your YouTube, correct? Yes. Yes. Because now, I just so funny. A lot people, the many, many people, American and Indonesian, from Indonesian here, learning about the garden because it's not easy for season. And then every ask me, me don't know. Why can't know? I'm learning.

Before we don't have YouTube, I just go to Facebook. I reading and then same thing. Everybody asks same thing. And then, what? Abish, you know, yeah, chape. So basically, he said that, like, A lot of Indonesian that live in the United States, he posts a lot in Facebook and his friends start commenting and then start asking questions, right? It's like, oh, you grow that? That's amazing. Teach me how. And he wrote and answered every question.

And then he said that like more people coming in and ask and he's like, oh my God, I was so tired just asking all your, answering all your questions. And then he started thinking that like, how about if I just record all the question and then put it in YouTube? So anybody asks, he's like, okay, watch my YouTube instead of looking for answering, right? Yeah. What are like one or two of the most common questions from Indonesians living in America about gardening? What's the part of the rata-rata, usually? The question is to ask how to be choicot to tanam it.

Because in Indonesia, that's two months, in this, it's, it's not, so the management that's not, not the time

when at the time when at a time at time at the time at the time. Right, right, right. So mostly is because people that come in here

is their first generation, right? Just like us, we come here, our mom and dad is from Indonesia. So we have no knowledge of the zoning. We have no knowledge on when to start

the seedling and moving in outside. So he basically just telling them what he did. Like, oh, I start the siddling at this month. I start moving in outside. Do they ever ask you where to find certain plants from Indonesia? First, that, the tanamia, from Mexico, from from Mexico, from Belibri, from, uh, yeah, yeah. So they say that like, uh, first, uh, they kind of like, plan whatever available, because, they want to learn first how to really start.

So it doesn't matter that like, oh, it doesn't matter like, oh, is this the cayenne pepper from Mexico or from South America or from Indonesia? The most important thing is like, I know how to start to growing cayenne pepper. And then after that, they start like, oh, I really want to, I know how to grow cayenne paper now. Let's grow with the one from Indonesia. So like that kind of step. How do they find the cayenne pepper from Indonesia? Are there networks in America of Indonesians trading seeds and plants?

Yes, this is a good question. A lot of people, diaspora, Indonesia live here, many, right? And then have the club, like Paman Sam and then Garden Sister. Name the Facebook, Paman Sam, and then Facebook, the gardens. A lot of people want to learn about the garden And then he sits sometime from the country And then he gave me because

They jarang Because they can't be nanom Because the tanganya panas, he said, Then cashing me, this is so funny So what happened is In Facebook or in the community They have either WhatsApp group Or they have a Facebook group

group and one of it he mentioned like a garden sister garden or Uncle Sam garden that those groups are Indonesian that live in the United States that tried to grow their own food or try to have like a little tiny garden and a lot of time they went back to Indonesia they're they're they they went to Indonesia and they're like oh my God I want to grow this I want to grow that and they purchase those seats and they bring it into United States

they try and all die or all not successful and they start feeling so sad and they start sharing at the at the group and it's like oh I'm failed I didn't know what happened maybe I do wrong and the important thing is they always say this is very Indonesian thing that my hand it translates as my hand is hot it's like you don't have a green thumb things like that right so I don't have a green thumb it's mean that like in Indonesian my hand is hot. When it's hot, you kill everything, right? So it's like, my hand is hot and they start searching on those groups who's actually successful and they saw his garden and they end up sending

those seeds to him. I was like, can you try to help me to grow this? Because my hand is hot, all that are you really could grow it? And when he sent it to him, he started growing it, take picture and it's grew and they're like no way Indonesian send send a seat for me there is so like a there is a couple of family in Texas right well yeah there is a lot of family from Texas they tried to grow with a first time and fail like like total fail and like and they end up sending so much to us we're like we don't know what we're going to do with this and then everybody learning with me and yeah we end up able to grow it we sent a picture and some people even came from Texas to

here they're like this is my seed for real oh my god it's all that I'm like we do not know how to grow in Texas either like we do not know how it's we could grow it here what type of seed did they send from Texas there in Texas after the book first the book the book the book about the garden oh the expensive right right yeah first time and after that many like a shit large yeah i forget oh chabe oh chabe indonesia right right so they he said first they sent him the books right so it's like this is the books that i learned from i give it to you so you could learn it too and then he sent a lot of cayenne pepper like a different type of

paper like you know in indonesia cayenne paper has like maybe lots of different cayenne paper so multiple different cayenne paper in thailand they call it the small green chili those kind of thing but we have multiple different variety also so they send a multiple different those because they say that like it's dead in Texas so there is no hope in Texas let me just send it to you what did you learn that made it successful that was different from what they were doing with the bird with the chili pepper Bedatine abe. Why they can't be able to be able to be

I don't know but I don't know but we always have the field we're sadabar, semangat, hobby, like and like like, um, like, um, like, um, did like, did like,

did all right, right. So what he said, this is so funny, he's like, you always have such a good question. So he said like, I didn't know what makes me successful, but what I know is, uh, I don't know afraid to do to do the wrong thing and plus everything I do, I always do it with the love. I have passion and patient.

Did I say it right? Passion and patient. And I always put my heart into it. But I still do not know what makes it successful. Can I ask a very personal question? I'm wondering what role your faith has in your work in the garden. Okay.

I'm... So, if we're... So, if we're... So, if we're... ...we're having stress, like, we're having... ...weewee, we're about,

to where, to where, to where, but with garden, we're, we're... ...that, we're... ...he said that in my faith, um...

...patience, like, you don't need to rush thing, is a big part. part right and it's the same principle with gardening right and it is the same principle with a household husband and wife so when I garden I don't need to rush thing in my faith also I don't need to rush thing and it's applied to household as a husband and wife a lot of people when they stress out they go to casino and have fun for me I go to my garden

and just be patient with it. So, patient, really, what do you call that in English? Not only focus, but also like some kind of like a combination between focus and detail oriented, but like the patient way on like not an instant gratification. That's what really connect us. between gardening our faith and how we live our life. Like in God's time. Yes, yes.

Oh my God, you put it very beautiful. Yeah, yeah. Looking at this too. All, this not suburb, all, yeah, yeah, yeah, he said also that he learned from the soil, like, it's not easy, it's not a good soil, and it's like life, right?

It's not easy, it's not always good, but that's like, That's life. Do you remember how we met? Yeah. Can you tell people? Wait, wait, wait, wait. How we met?

Tell me. We met, I think, five years ago at Sky Cafe. So we have a friend in Maryland who came with a friend. She's an herbalist, and she invited me and Chris. I hope we met before that. I think that's when we met. Oh, my God. But we instantly had a connection with the food and the culture.

Oh, my God. I need to say thank you to her. what's her name Lacey Walker Oh my God From Fox Haven Retreat Center In Maryland I had done a workshop there on seeds

With Chris, my partner And so she invited us To come to this restaurant And we met with you And you ordered for us This huge vegetarian meal And told us all about Everything we were eating

And about Indonesian food culture And then you took us to Hongwong I think that's what it's called the Vietnamese grocery store next door and gave us a tour of the vegetables there that were familiar to you so that's how we met around food and culture oh my god that's such a beautiful story right it's meant to be see that's another thing that how universe connect us right so we got to meet around Indonesian food and I'm wondering there's a couple amazing Indonesian restaurants here that we know of that's our favorite yeah like we always go to them as a family because there's a lot

vegetarian options and it's just so flavored so beautifully like what an amazing flavor palette and I'm wondering from your perspective you know what are the most important foods to you that you continue to eat here in America Kang Kong oh Kang Kong oh you're going to show it okay we're going to show it uh Kang Kong Pari Paray oh bitermen Kangkong, what other? The long bean. That's why we love the long bean.

This year we don't grow it. In Indonesia, we ate mostly vegetables. Meat, very expensive, eggs, very expensive. And we came from Java Island and we're not coming from... Our city is not... Where we came from is not close to the ocean. So, vegetables.

vegetable is a way to go right and that's why there is so much variety of vegetarian dishes from Indonesia and we we have a lot of peanut sauce like a multiple different way how to grow peanut and do the sauce with peanuts so yeah cancun water spinach ipamoya aquaticum so cancun is a highlight for him because he loved Kang Kung so much. Here is expensive and some state even ban it as illegal. Kang Kunkangk is a spinach. I get the picture because it's still really small but

they call it spinach but we grow it a different way. Sometime in Indonesia we grow it in the water, sometimes we just grow it in the soil. Which one? Oh, water spinach. Water spinach. Water spinach. And I know it's called Ramwong in Vietnamese.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the cousin to the sweet potato. Right. They have the same flower. Yes. Very similar. Yes.

So in some other state in the United States, deem it as illegal because when it's grown in the water waste, it sucks a lot of water and really decreased, like the water supply at the area so um it is illegal but we grow it here in the in the soil and yeah we we ate kankung darat which is mean that not not water spinach but like land spinach it's delicious it's very succulent oh absolutely it's very tender yeah yeah we love it we even eat it raw, like the tip. We just eat it raw. We cook it with pepper, onion, and tomato. And we just really cook, we just blanch it basically, cook it really quick and eat it while

it's still very crunchy. I'll show you the chili. Cyan pepper, Capsicum Anulm. Harvest shown via photos on a cell phone. It's expensive, very expensive. Here, I agree. Wow, this is what you grew. Yeah, you grow. You see like bigger, you see? So you're holding a large, like catering tray? Yeah.

Aluminum catering tray filled to the brim. I don't have the large ones. Small, yeah, small already there. This one, the organic, bigger, but large. Yeah, those are nice long chilies. Yeah, long chili, yeah. You have half green, half red. You use both green and red?

Yes. We call that in Indonesia, Indonesia, chabe keretting, meaning that it's a smaller and chilis and has a little wave to it. And it's quite spicy, like compared to just regular cayenne pepper, it's a little bit spicier. Would you use this to make sambal? Yes, absolutely. Oh my goodness. We tell people what, I understand that sambal is very important.

yes right maybe the most important condiment oh goodness what is it made from it's made from the cayenne pepper this the this certain type of cayenne pepper and it's really different way how to make sample really depend on where we came from in Indonesia but like the way my husband made it usually either he blanched the cayenne pepper tomato onion and just grind it in stone brine that's how traditionally we usually made it but now over here we just put it in food processor and put it and shrimp paste usually we kind of like grill the shrimp paste a little bit and mix it with either

shrimp paste or sometime what do you call that the real shrimp so it's make it a little bit savory and tasty, yeah. Umami. Right, umami taste. Oh, God, so good. High with vitamin C, it's kind of like really my saliva is like dripping just talking about this.

I wonder if maybe we could look at some of the plants together. Yeah. Red spinach. Red spinach or red amaran Amaranth species. Red spinach is a big

part of our diet too in Indonesia. We call it pink soup in Indonesia because when we cook it, the water becomes pink and it's good for kids because kids like different color of food. So we kind of like, hey, you want to eat pink soup and we use the red spinach. Wow, and we call this amaranth here, or a lot of people call it Kalaloo, if they're from the Caribbean, because it's a leafy amaranth in the Spanish family. yeah and did you did you plant it here did it recede itself or how yeah we we plant it here and we reseed himself yeah it's yeah every year yeah coming back keep on coming back yeah the seed is just like uh get to the ground and just grow yeah you just let it fall and

regrow yes and it's growing underneath it's growing in the same pot as the um what did you call this again. Chinchao. Chinchao. Yeah, yeah, indeed. They like to be friends. Yeah. Oh, and I see macrout? No, no.

Kaffir lime. Lies. Citrus. He streaks. Beautiful. We use it in every, like a lot of curry, a lot of fish cooking. Yeah. The smell is really good.

Yeah. Sometimes we just, we just, we just, Put it in the room, yeah, because... It's awesome. And then we had the... Yeah, the lime itself, yeah. For cooking different type of food and fish. It's really good.

How long have you had this one? Abbe, this time, how we've done it? Long time. Like, like five, five years? Yeah. What size was it when you got it? Oh, like... Not from the seed?

From the seed? Oh, you grow this from the seed? Yes, from the seed. Wow. I know it's long time. This one, not from seed. Oh, that's from cutting. Oh, that's a cutting from the mother plant?

Yeah. Wow. I cut it like this. Yeah, this one we did a lot of cutting and we give it out to a lot of friends and neighbors. So yeah, we did a lot of cutting from this. Oh, I have to try that. We just bought one from the little store next to Hongvong. The Vietnamese, the tiny store.

It was very expensive, so we'll take some cuttings. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, get some cutting. Kinikir, Ulam Raja, King salad, Cosmos, Caudatus. That's your kinikir. We call it Kinikir, Ulam Raja. Uh-huh. That's right, we had extras, so I brought them, or you came and got them. Yes, yes, thank you.

Oh my, my mom's so excited because the way we ate it is basically we blanch it and we eat it with shred coconut, young coconut. We put samba on the shredded young coconut and we mix it with the Ulamraja or with Kanikir. That's how we ate it back home in Indonesia. And for people who don't recognize the name, it's a type of Cosmos. Cosmos caudatas is the Latin or the... the scientific name. So it's like it's related to the ornamental cosmos,

but it has tiny pink flowers, and it's grown for its leaf. And I found it originally at the Cambodian market in FDR Park, which I think they call the Southeast Asian market now. Yes, yes. Bless you. And I didn't know what it was, but I knew it was something interesting.

And then you were able, all of you, your whole family were able to come to the farm a couple years ago and identify it for us and tell us how to make it. So thank you very much. Oh my god, we are so excited. Maybe so wet. This one is rare. Lemon grass.

Sympopogong Skoinantus Oh yeah, lemon grass. So we... Something like 50. Yeah. This one, after that, got a 50, 75 each. From the, in one year?

Yes. No, no, from one. And then, so usually we start with one and then it's grow to become like a 50 stick. Like, what do you call? of this 50 of this yeah the shoot and yeah I mean um lemon grass we use it for drinks for eating like in multiple different cookings in our beef yeah he said that he he bought this at the store and then he put a growing powder to

make it faster grow like a rooting hormone yeah yeah that's great I yeah we buy things we know I buy the um kankoon at the store and I root it yeah it just puts roots out in water or soil what I said what I'm saying Kelor too oh from Biji inter I'll pindain yeah yeah yeah today Kelor basa indonesian what Kelor um Moringa

Oh, Moringa We call it Kelor, right? Moringa Moringa olifera Yeah That's like very popular Clear soup in Indonesia Like we grow up eating the clear

Moringa soup We never knew Until A couple years back that Moringa a multi like a fantastic nutritious superfood super food right and it's become so commercial I'm like what we grow up with a clear soup of Moringa can you tell me more about the soup like which parts of the plant do you use how do you make it the leaves so we we use the leaves again we just blanch it and then usually

what we do is we cut onion we cut garlic right onion garlic cayenne pepper tomato salt pepper and then what just and a little bit vegetable vegetable stock and then just put moring we boiled it a little bit and then put moringa just for a couple of second and then we ate it how much leaf because I find the taste of the leaf to be very strong yes so how much we are we are so used to it because we grow up just like a lot of American thing bitter melon is better for us is a is it is better but it's a very pleasant better right like we craving it because as a kid we trained to eat those kind of food right so when when

people say like oh Moringa tastes very strong very empowering right for us like oh really it's just a good taste for us because we trained to like and it's it's became something that our palettes like accustomed to right that's why we When people say like, oh, bitter melon is so bitter, we're like, bitter good, right, instead of a bitter bad, right? So, yeah. Banana, musa species. This is banana. Can you tell me about how you've learned how to grow it?

Yeah. If in Indonesia, it's gampang, muddha. But in America, I first, I bought, not tanem, just like this. Then, because it's because it's, because it's, busug. So, it should, it's, it's, it's to be given to me. put it in the bottom, so banana is everywhere in Indonesia, very easy to grow. But down here we did a lot of trial and error. Multiple times we just leave it outside during the winter time.

We kind of like cover it and end up it's dead. So now sometimes we bring it inside the house or we put it really kind of like a deep and then we put a lot of blanket during the winter and coming back. coming back. A little success here but we still are doing trial and error. So these ones stayed in the ground this winter with blankets? In the winter in this, in the down here. Yeah, yeah, so, year,

yeah, so last last year he put it a dig it a little deeper than usual. And then during winter time he put a lot of blanket to it. and then now it's growing so he's like yay it's not that like the years before the blanket is basically just composed from this this yeah it's not a blanket that we would use but it's a blanket of old plants yeah I think about how Italians would cover their figs you have a big beautiful fig tree here and they would literally put blankets over them but you mean blankets of plants Blanket of plants. Yes, that's what I mean.

Now is, uh, one, two, three, four. Taddi, so they spread. How did you start them? Like, where do you, what do you do to start growing bananas? Like, where do you get it? What does it look like? This is from our friend, they live a couple of blocks away. Yeah, somehow they, they're successful. Oh, because they put it pretty big. It's pretty deep. It's pretty difficult because they grow it really deep.

But every year they have a success of keep on coming back. So he learned from that friend and this is coming back so we are very happy. So you went to Robert's house and dug out some of it and planted it here. So it can be made the batangue. Yeah, so you eat the stem. Right? The insect. side. Yeah. Okay, so of course it won't make fruits here, but you eat the inside of the

stem. This is for a fish cooking. So you wrap the fish and grill it. Yeah. What do you put in it when you take the banana leaf and what else is in it with the fish? Oh God, we put everything. Sometimes we wrap rice like a coconut rice or just regular rice. It could be savory. It could be sweet.

Banana leaves has a very good chemical to make the food really fragrant. And I heard it's also make the food much more tastier, which is correct, right? When we put food inside the banana leaves, you open it. It's just like so make the aroma really very good. Do you ever cook with turmeric leaves? Oh, yes. This we're not this, turmeric? Oh, no, yeah.

Last year, I had the turmeric. Just one, one, and then making like too much. Yeah, multiple, yeah. Yeah, he said that we use the leaves for cooking. Mostly in Indonesia, we use it for beef or for fish in the cooking. And a lot of curry using is so delicious. So are you also wrapping? cutting it fine both yeah either we wrap or cutting it fine what's a good

turmeric leaf or banana leaf what size what how does it look when you harvest either of them for cooking oh banana leaves usually we we like it to be bigger right because we want to wrap everything to it anything but a turmeric leaves it's um but digging uh right right so turmeric leaf does like it doesn't matter the size because if it is not big enough then you cut it if it is big enough, then we wrap it. Very good. Nice.

Anything else you want to show? What other? Oh, yeah. Bittermelon. Bittermelon, no, no. Bittermelon. This is bitter melon. I put up there.

Yeah, this year we put bitter melon very, very late. I brought you a few. They're from Jamaica, and they're small. Oh, okay. They're small like this. Yeah, it's dark green and it has bumps like like the South Asian kind. Right, right. Not smooth.

Yeah. So that's, I had extra algorithm in my house because I love that one. Oh, that's good. Which kind is this? Uh, this. Uh, this is... Uh, yeah, really bumpy too. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, um, too. Oh, yeah, really dark green and really bumpy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, maybe eight inches. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, nice.

Lily. Lillium species. Can you tell me about this flower that is everywhere? Oh, yeah, this is lily. This is so funny because our neighbor, the husband, work for burpee, right? And they give us a free lily, right? And then we start planning it, and it just grow like crazy. Yeah, it must be hundreds of them.

Right, and we love it. And people from the church, our community, love it so every time we harvest like we already have less of church that we're going to deliver the lily for their for their Sunday service yeah so not the masjid local churches right like a local Indonesian church wow what what denomination are the local Indonesian Christians we have one Catholic church we have couple Bethany Church we have couple Mennonite Church we have couple of Mennonite Church, we have Pantacosta Church, we have Jehovah Witness Church. So there is like around 13 Indonesian church in Philadelphia.

13 church and one masjit. And you're all connected through the Indonesian community? Yes, right. Do you ever come together? Yes, yeah, usually when they celebrate like the Christmas, all church, invited each other and the masjid there and when we celebrate our eat the end of Ramadan every pastor from the church coming because usually we celebrate it in the park sometimes in FDR park right so we just have an open buffet for everyone

I should invite you next year let us know we would love to come that would be beautiful persimmin diospirous khaki And then this is to smek. Parson. Yeah, parsimine is like a huge in Indonesia. Is this an Asian type of persimmon? Yeah, it's Asian type of persimen. This is, we do not know, like, we do not know really well on how to grow it.

One meter, it looks happy. Yeah, he dig it very deep. And because, the, the, it's not good, right so yeah the soil over here because of like a back then it's a high-rise building right so the soil quality is not that great so he put a lot of compost and we have our like a we never waste our vegetable we always turn it to become compost yeah we we learn how to grow this it looks very happy but it's getting so big do you get do you get many fruits

Last year we only get like what two fruits? Two fruit. Last year it started learning how to fruits. Lots of flowers and we're like, oh we got so excited but we end up got two beautiful fruits out of it. Was that the first year with fruits? Yeah, last year was the first year with fruits. Maybe you'll get four this year. Hopefully, like that's a hundred percent return, right?

How did they taste? Oh, delicious. Oh, delicious. Oh my god. It's so good. Cale. Brasica oloresia This is

Cale. Cale? It's a curly kale. This is organic. You don't have, no, no, every in the morning I check everything

the have the insect or no. Oh, you feel like slugs or something? Yeah, yeah. Afternoon, night, something I check it with the butter. Wow that's a lot of attention yeah sometimes like I wake up 2 a.m. in the morning he's not at the bed so I just pick on the window and he's here looking for slugs what now is kale something you're familiar with from Indonesia no we grow it here because we usually eat cassava leaves for our curry right or for other meal

cassava leaf is not easy to grow we got the steak and then we grow the year and then we don't produce a lot and we start learning that this kale as a substitute of cassava leaves so yeah so we make the soup we make the curry mixing whatever that back home we ate with cassava leaves we now we have it with kale because it's so easy so much easy to grow. That's really cool that you found a substitution that does really well here. Yeah. Are there other plants that you've found here to replace an Indonesian plant? Ha! What other, bids, what we're not known in Indonesia, that we're doing...

Bid. Bid. Bid root. Betta bulgaris. But in Indonesia, we're not, Bid, too. No, abi, no, umi, m'i, not, umi, ma'am can. For him, this is his... personal because I grow up eating a lot of beets for him where he from they don't eat a lot of beats and then came to United States he started seeing this beautiful purpley and it's like oh beats and then I tell him that like oh I

really like be it I grow up with beats and it's like oh that's neat because I do not know a lot about beats back home in Indonesia but when I came to United States now I eat beats and grow beats Yeah, I saw in the book, the children's book Harvesting the Beats What a proud child Holding up those big red red roots Grape

Beetis Benifer Yeah, and also we learn here about grapes, right? We grow a lot of the leaves Because people coming in to grab the leaves And make, what do you call that? Oh, Dolma Yeah, yeah

wrapping the rice the wrapping the rice thing yeah so we're going to have couple of friends coming in just harvesting the leaves yeah usually we already cut it because we want to have uh what do you call that the pots start growing so we want to have a fruit yeah bigger fruits oh no the uh what you call it oh yeah the spotted lantern fly babies they're all over them this is one of their favorite foods we need to oh i need to start making the the what you call it that the spray yeah yeah what do you use I use usually like the um soap and the cayenne pepper and that's what we would use to yeah yeah some kind of oh my god so yeah they're they're they're they're they love grapes grapes is one of their favorite foods so you might

find them only here and and not on the rest of your garden they like trees too maybe you can trap them here but spray them while they're here yeah yeah Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. Okay. Yeah. I know people also use grape leaves in making pickles, like cucumber pickles and other vegetable pickles. Yeah, I guess it makes them make some crisper.

Oh. Yeah. Wait, but not as a main ingredient. No. You just put one leaf in. Oh. Yeah. I didn't know that.

Yeah. So that's another great use. Right. But that sounds good to make the wraps with them. Exactly. So like, yeah, once my, our friends come in. we're just going to cut a lot of it and yeah where are your friends from um they some of them from here some of them from maryland but they're indonesian also they're indonesian oh okay so that's a

that's the food that they eat no no no no their husband is from middle eastern oh okay that's very middle eastern mediterranean yeah okay so usually they have either a middle eastern husband or they they used to work with it at the middle eastern restaurant so they know how to make it So they harvest this and then they end up giving us a plate of made food, which is we grateful. That's great. And also, I mean, like I said, I see the fig, which is very Mediterranean or Middle Eastern. Honey fig. How long has this been here?

How long has this been here? How long, maybe four years, yeah. For years, yeah. Wow, and it's great. Honey, honey, honey, what? Honey, pig, yeah. he called it honey fig oh it's not the purple one is the it's uh when it's get bigger it's honey colored yeah honey color kind of like yellowish uh has it made fruit yes oh my god plenty

and this is incredible i'm just noticing that you've made a table yeah yeah out of the fig tree like there's a because too much and then i cut it so you pruned off you pruned off some of the big branches and then made this platform attached to it that you can sit at with a cutting board so what do you do at this table he has eating breakfast drinking coffee just relaxing I'm tired and then I sit down drink something that's amazing I would like to when I get my phone I want to take a picture because I've never seen anything like that to just sit right under the fig tree at a table that's supported by the fig tree oh there's a pencil holder oh so you sit and write there's a pencil holder

made out of the fig trunk cut up with a hole in it have you heard people also make tea out of fig leaves oh no I haven't heard of a tea from the fig leaf yeah have you tried it um we did but I don't I do not really know I need to do more research yeah they dry it out and then they made tea out of it and then the drink. Yeah. I already try, good. Very good.

Purple long bean. Vigna ungwikulata. Oh, the one other plant I wanted to ask about was the long bean. Oh yeah. Do you have the pod? Yeah, the pot is at the table. This one, uh, bean. Like red, red bean.

Red bean. Yes. So this is a dried long bean. If I remember correctly, you call it a long purple peanut. Yes, yes. What is the name? Kachang Panjang, Ungu. Yeah, you translated correctly.

And so this is purple when it's eaten. Yes. But it probably doesn't stay purple when you cook it. Right, yeah. So when we cook it, it's a turn to become green. green right but it's really fun to involve the kids because they harvest it and they love the color oh my god it's purple we could compare it between the purple and the green right and then they cut it and they cook it it turned to become

green so it's really visual for the kids and that's how we involve the kids to our day-to-day farm-to-table kind of situation right like the green jelly the pink the purple long beans it's beautiful it's a multiple very colorful very delicious right yeah people who are not familiar what makes a long bean different than what we call green beans here right the taste for us is a it's so much what you call it hearty yeah I didn't know how to describe it because it just really have a the crunchiness. It's a different type of crunchiness. Yeah. For us it's so delicious. And you shared a pod with us

a couple years ago and I was telling Sharif that we planted 40 feet of it last year. And this year we're planting 80 feet of it. No way. Yeah. So we're increasing it. Increasing it so we can share it through the seed catalog. And if you ever need some back, we have lots of it. Thank you for sharing it with us. But yeah, you were talking about, you know, involving the kids. And I think that's so beautiful about what you all are doing. Yeah. To the point where you even call your project Hekel Garden. And that's the name of one of your children. That's the name of, yeah, our second son. We have three boys. One is 27 years old, which is turned 27 this year. And then we have Heichel. He's 13 this year. And we have Putra, which is 11 this year.

I want to read this one thing which says in the beginning of your book for all the father farmers who help little things grow and when I read this book to my son you know that means a lot to me to just start it out and tell him that you know read that section to him because we spend so much time with Brian in our household garden on both of our farms and for him to see another family that to whom it's so important to do the same things that we're doing is just really special.

I would love to meet him. I met him, right? Before? I can't remember if you've met him yet. I know I met a couple. We need to hang out. We need to cook together. That would be wonderful. Yes. That would be wonderful. But, you know, again, you know, when you gave me this book last fall at the mural unveiling at Hardina, I brought it home and read it to him. And then I read it again to him, last night. And just, you know, these are all the things we do together, you know, from building beds to filling it with soil to, you know, watering and planting and harvesting. And it's a very simple book, but it's a very beautiful depiction of what a family who's dedicated to the earth and growing things does day to day. So I just want to thank you for providing something like

this for families like ours. Yeah, it is, it is meant a lot for us. We also thank our friend, Cynthia Crylich. She is the founder of Morning Circle Media, which is she's local. She is at your area, right? So originally, she just saw our picture. We post a lot of pictures at Facebook, and she's like, I would love to work with you to do kids' book about gardening. And we embarked to this beautiful projects.

Yeah. I guess I want to ask about this. dedicating it to father farmers. I kind of want to know, you know, what does this have to do with fatherhood? You know, what is it that you're hoping that your children take from this? This is a question Chris asked me to ask you. It's like imagining your children as elders in the future. What are your hopes for them and how are you using the garden to help them get there? Yeah.

I'm, I hope that we have to be able to give what, what, the generation to be able to, because, manusia, that's, we're from, we're from, we have to thank you to, because petan, because,

people can't, because people, because we can't because of the we're from, so, respect, if it's,

so he said that, like, I want to educate and, uh, make the kids recognize how important farmers are. Every day we ate, every day we have food to our body, and because of who, because of farmers. And a lot of generations do not recognize that. And it is really important to love and respect your farmers

because that's where our food come from. Thank you. And in terms of Indonesian culture, what do you hope to pass on to your kids and their kids? oh my god and oh gosh it is it is really generational right um like um it we live now in a different countries but yet our DNA our soul is still somehow back there so it is really like negotiating between what is home right and we want our kids also to feel that like you you have a multiple different home you could exist here you could exist in Indonesia you

have the roots there but yet also you have the roots here we want them to become like a really truly global citizens that understand the richness of the cultures and there is so much conversation so much things that we want to, ah, we want our kids to recognize, to understand. And somehow we, it's not translate to languages. It's translate to things that we touch together, that we smell together, that we cook and we eat together. And I wonder how it feels.

I think the mural shows you and High Call. Yes. In a corner of this very rich cultural experience depicted on, on the mural. And so I wonder if seeing himself and your other kids seeing your family depicted alongside of, you know, dance and dress, and I can't remember everything that's on the mural, maybe we could pull up a quick picture. But like, how did it feel for your son to see himself up there? Oh, it's such a beautiful feeling, right? Because when the artist is coming in, they have a community meeting and they want to see what is the richness.

and the relationship between the city and the community itself. And we present the artist with the book, right? And she just instantly fall in love. And she just want to include the book in the mural. And for someone like Heiko have that representation is huge because it shows that like, hey, my dad, even though look at the our garden is tiny right but it showed that it's it's a really part of the community part of our footprint here in the United States

so my my office calling me okay thank you so much well well thank you so much for meeting with me today for sharing your stories to sharing the stories about the plants about your family about your culture I'm so grateful to be able to be able to able to share that with all of our listeners. Okay, me, so thank you so much, Mr. Owen, for your coming, for looking at my garden, and then very, very appreciate it for me. I hope you, everything good, and then I'm happy, you happy everything. Absolutely, absolutely, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Next, our son, Brian, wanted to ask some questions of high calls. So we sent a recording, and he sent one back. Hello, my name is Brian. I would like to ask you some questions. And these are the three questions. Or am I air one more?

Or two more. Let's see. My first question is, what type of plant that you rub and then you smell it and it smells good. These are the six plants that I know that smell good. And I know a lot that I can't say all of them. So mint, lavender.

Well, lavender is my favorite, favorite plant. Let's see, mint lavender, sage. uh anise hyssup uh mint you want to know where a mint come from peppermint you want to know where a bearman's come from mint that's all they come from and a little sugar and then i want to know what type of berry do you use the most This type of year, we will use a lot of June berries, right, Dad? That's right. Because June berries only come about out on June, so that's why they're called June berries. Do you remember what fruit we picked a lot of when we went down to your grandparents' house in Mississippi? A berry?

A big old fruit that was big and orange from a tree. A persimmon. Yeah. And I know that y'all have that at your house, too. Do you have a final question for them? The final question is, what type of green do you use? Well, how about this? Can you tell them what greens we ate last night that we eat

because your people are from Mississippi? It was called mustard green. Like mustard, mustard is actually made it at a green. Oh, you mean mustard on a hot dog? Yes, sir. It's made from the seeds of that plant. Yeah, but how do they make it into a yellowish thing? From the seeds, the seeds are yellow.

Oh, I never knew. And some of the seeds are black. I have many more questions. I think that's good. That's a lot of questions. I'm going to ask you six more questions. Whoa, how about one more and then say goodbye for now? No, those are six.

Okay. I want to know what type of tomato do you use? Can I ask them a question? Okay. I would like to know from the kids because we really love reading your book, High Call's Garden, and learning that you get to garden with your parents. I'd like to know what is your favorite thing that you grow that is from Indonesia? Ooh. Nice one, Dad. Thank you. Well, thank you guys. We're looking forward to hearing your answers. And we're looking forward to seeing you. Thank you.

Thank you very much. This is Heikl. Thank you for reading my book, Brian. I'm glad you like it. For the first question that you asked, what type of plant that I like to smell? My favorite plant that I like to smell is mint. For the second question that you ask, what type of berry I like? My favorite is tallberry, because they taste good. For the third answer that you ask is what type of green that I like is Kang Kong, Bachel Sprott, and Chincha.

The fourth question is what type of tomato that I like? I like cherry tomato. And the last question, your dad asked is what plant that I like to grow here in Indonesia is cayenne pepper, which means chabe crittin

in Indonesia. Thank you. Thank you so much to Hani, Sharif, and Haikhaal for sharing their stories with us. And thank you for listening. and for sharing this episode of Seeds and their people with your loved ones. Please share this episode with someone you love and subscribe to our show in your favorite podcast app. Thank you also for helping our seedkeeping and storytelling work by leaving us a review

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