Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - Tyler Cowen: On the Sound of Patriotism - A Musical History

Episode Date: August 21, 2026

To honor the 250th anniversary of America, Tyler Cowen plays Rick patriotic music from the United States and around the world in this special listening episode. In addition to his work as an economist, professor, and bestselling author, Tyler Cowen is a longtime music enthusiast with an expansive repertoire in classical and choral music, rock n’ roll, and world music.  Moving from John Philip Sousa’s vision of classic patriotism and Country Joe and the Fish’s antiwar satire to the Andrews Sisters, Franz Liszt, Béla Bartók, Antonín Dvořák, and the Sex Pistols, Cowen explores how music can express, question, and reimagine what it means to love one’s country. PLAYLIST ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: AGZ ⁠⁠https://DrinkAG1.com/tetra⁠⁠ ------ Squarespace ⁠⁠https://Squarespace.com/tetra⁠⁠ Use code 'TETRA' ------ Athletic Nicotine ⁠⁠https://www.AthleticNicotine.com/tetra⁠⁠ Use code 'TETRA' ------ Lectio 365 ⁠⁠https://Lectio365.com⁠⁠ ------ Sign up to receive Tetragrammaton Transmissions ⁠⁠https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

tetragrammaton. Sometimes you just do better by looking at music or sometimes the visual arts rather than talking those things through directly. So I thought that is what we would do today. We would look at the history of patriotism and music, mostly sticking to pieces I actually like and I hope you like. And that's the basic theme of what we're up to. I think it's interesting to look at patriotism from a global standpoint.

We tend to look at America as the center of, the world, countries all over the world have their patriotism. It's beautiful to look at. That's right. We are going to start with America, but we will wander far and wide. And I think we cannot have a world without patriotism, but at the margin, one should always be a bit skeptical of patriotism, because it doesn't make complete sense. This is as classic a piece as I could come up with, and I think it's an important place to start. It's John Phillips Sousa, Stars and Stripes Forever, which he wrote in the 1890s. It's very famous.

Everyone knows it. And I think it sums up the potential problem with patriotic music. In essence, you can think of our entire session as me trying to avoid, repeating the same kind of piece over and over again. Because the Phillipsusa piece, it's quite rousing. You could think of it as a kind of cumulative exhilaration. And if all we did was to play Sousa marches again and again and again, everyone would be bored. But let's start with what classic patriotism sounds like, major key, themes reemphasized, you know, you pull back and then you come forward with even more musical forces, big climax at the end.

It's classic patriotic music. Now, John Phillips Sousa, he was director of the U.S. Marine Band when he wrote this. It's a little bit before the Spanish-American War. The song rose to prominence during the Spanish-American War of 1898. It was seen as the patriotic song. Even though most of that war was about the Philippines, to some extent, Hawaii, Puerto Rico. We almost took Cuba as well. It was quite an imperialistic war about other places in some ways more than the United States.

And it involved us taking a place. The Philippines, where stars and stripes really did not. last forever other than our military base there, but they won back their independence. This is about a little shorter than five minutes, but I think it's a classic case for patriotic music and also why patriotic music to many of us can be a bit repellent or dangerous. Are we ready to listen? Let's listen. Do you feel properly roused?

I do. It brings up images of parades and fairgrounds and people celebrating. Each time I hear it, which is not so often, it does sound fresh to me, which is a sign of its power, but I also feel quite manipulated. It's got a lot of energy, and it also reminds me of cartoons from childhood. And, you know, this song often was used in movie theaters. If there was a fire or some kind of emergency, they would start playing this tune to signal to people it was time to leave. That's a very funny use for a patriotic song, but I think they thought it was something people would notice

and feel a need to get up and do something. But the point is that patriotic songs, if they're effective, they start being used for other things as well. And that gets at the complexity of the patriotism idea, because patriotism starts being used for other things as well, to impose your view of religion or whatever. The patriotism, once it's in place, it grows of its own logic in ways you may or may not like.

Do you said that this song was essentially the theme song for the Spanish American War? Yes, it was. which we won, quote unquote. Are patriotic songs always associated with war? Not at all, and we will get to that. But the other side of the spectrum is a critical patriotic song, which is also associated with war.

And this is Country Joe and the Fish from the 1960s. This came out, I think, 1967, and it's called Fixen to Dirag. He was not a communist, but his parents were Stalinists. So they called him Joe, after Joseph's Stalinists. So they called him Joe after Joseph Stalin. And Country Joe, naming the group that is a reference to Stalin, tongue-in-cheek. And the fish refers to a quotation from Chairman Mao, that revolutionaries are fish swimming in the ocean.

So he was poking fun at the notion of, you know, his group, Country Joe and the Fish, were they really revolutionaries or were they just a musical group? And he was playing around with that idea. I think of him as patriotic in the Woody Guthrie sort of way. leaned much further to the left than many people today would be comfortable with, but he was strongly opposed to the Vietnam War, I would say, essentially correct in that view. And he wrote what is to me one of the best anti-war songs from that era. And it still sounds fresh. Interestingly, he took the melody from a New Orleans rag from the 1920s called Muscat Rag. He was sued for

that, did not lose the case. It was determined he did take the song, but they took too long to bring the lawsuit, but it's from an old American tradition, the melody of this song itself. Let's listen. Get me an hour. The old big chances come at last. Gotta go out. Get those reds. The only good come is one that's dead.

And you know the peace could only be one way. Remember that outro? Yeah. It's longer than the one on my LP. The line that hits me is be the first one on your block to have your boy come home in a box. It's talking about something very serious but treated in a real. the lightweight. How much it sounds like a rag is more striking to me as I get older.

The use of themes from circus music. Philip Sousa does as well, whether it's the pro-war cut or the anti-war cut. They're both in your face a bit. The kazoo. That's right. A slight sound of it being demented, but not in a way where you think Country Joe is demented. It's referring to his vision of the war as being demented.

And I think he did that very effectively. The chant in the background. I think it also doesn't sound like any of his. other songs, if I remember correctly. A lot of his songs were different from each other. It's one thing I always liked about him. Quick sidebar. Let's see what this is.

Fixing to Die, blues by Book of White, which I've never heard. I'm looking fun in my eye. I'm going to find in my eye. I'm looking fun in my eye. I'll be sure we're there. So we've gone to die. So mother's treating me telling like a word. How am I?

How am I telling him? Pretty awesome to hear that It's a rich Pretty awesome, yes? Pretty awesome, yes? It's just interesting to hear that Fixing to die, obviously, country Joe heard that song.

There's a riff to it, yeah. And was inspired by it. Absolutely. Now, it's interesting, the link between white and black music because that's the main theme for our final American cut before we start our global tour.

Do you ever listen to the Andrews sisters? Yes. They're very good. They're precursors. to the Everleys. So there's a song by them from 1940 called Boogie Wuggy Bugle Boy from Company B, which is drawn very directly from black music, sometimes called jump blues, like Lewis Jordan, Big Joe Turner, Key Bone Walker. And they took that black musical tradition, made a very white version of it, put it in an Abbott and Costello movie called Buck Privates,

1940. And they're indirectly hinting at the fact that the armed forces are segregated, but it's a very celebratory tune. But underneath, there's the subtle running critique of, are we singing about a white person, a black person, someone wanting to do black music? Will that be possible in the armed forces? Will we integrate? And the Andrews sisters, after the war, they started a dance canteen in Los Angeles and allowed for integrated dancing at a time when that was not so typical or not so accepted. They sang with Bing Crosby about the Freedom Train, which was also a pro-integration movement. So they have an ongoing history of being pro-racial integration, but in very subtle, understated ways. So I think of this

song as on the surface superficial patriotism, but actually it's a quite subtle running critique of America, but with a patriotic vision of how it could be better. And all that wrapped up in a song that people just enjoyed and probably never thought about these other issues. Shall we listen? And then we'll talk about it a bit more. Yes. And listen to the lyrics.

He was a famous trumpet man from all Chicago way. He had a boogie style that no one else could play. He was the top man at his craft. But then his number came up and he was gone with the draft. He's in the army now. A blowing revelry. He's the boogie-woogie bugle boy of company B. They made him blow a bugle.

for his uncle Sam. It really brought him down because he couldn't jam. The captain seemed to understand. Because the next day the cap went out and drafted a band. And now the company jumps when he plays Revely. He's the boogie-woogie bugle boy of Company B. A toot, a toot, a toot, a to-de-le-a-to-to-blows it A-to-the-bar. In boogie rhythm, you can't blow a note unless a bass and guitar is playing with him.

He makes a company jump when he plays Revely. He's the boogie-woogie bugle boy of Company B. He was a boogie-woggy-bug boy of Company B. He was busy as a Bz-Bee. And when he plays, he makes the company jump a A to the bar. He's a boogie-bookie-bugle boy of company B. He blows it A to the bar. He can't blow a note if the bass in guitar.

And the company jumps when he plays Revely. He's a boogie, boogie bucuba of company beat. Sleep with boogie every night and wakes him off the same way in the early bright. They clap their hands and stamp their feet because they know how he plays when someone gives him a beat. He really breaks it up when he plays reveling. He is the boogie boogie buglebone of company beat.

What strikes you of... I think the harmony of their vocals, it's so tight and so perfect. I love to sing to them sing. For me, it's about in America. just dying to play black music and not quite being allowed to, but saying,

this desire will triumph, which it did. And they were, you could say, especially white in how they presented themselves and who listened. They're from Minnesota. It's a fun cut for me.

That was one of my father's favorite songs. And for him, it was just something in an Abidant Costello movie, but I heard it many times as a young kid because he would keep on watching Buck Privates over and over again. Yes. So it was one of the first songs

I ever knew, in fact. Now, to go around the world, let's turn to Europe in the 19th century. So back then, of course, a lot of what are currently nations were not autonomous. They might have been ruled by Russia or the Ottoman Empire, or Scandinavia was all screwed up. You have Sweden controlling Norway, the Danes almost everywhere. So you start having all these independence movements. People see the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Haitian Revolution, And they start thinking, say, in Hungary, why can't we be our own nation? So these are not yet

war songs, but you could call them pleas for independence or celebrations of local heroes who historically had fought for independence, and that is a genre of its own. So we could start with our list Hungarian Rhapsody number 15. It's a very energetic song, and you will hear the military march element in it. And the forward-pourable. repulsive movement, listed a series of rhapsodies. He called them Hungarian rhapsodies, celebration of his homeland. And this one, there was Count Rekoxi, who was a Hungarian hero of times past, and List honored him. This became called Rikokovsky March. Let's try Roberto Sussuddin. He's a great pianist. That was spectacular. Isn't it incredible?

Unbelievable. And so confident in the vision, right? The performance is out of this world. He's a great list in Scriab and pianist, Sizdyn. Who were Lists contemporaries? Well, he overlapped with so many people because he lives till 1886. So any important 19th century composer he had some connection with,

but Wagner would be the most obvious. They had a falling out over different visions. List starts off as a playboy, a celebrity, maybe the first truly famous European celebrity when and fall at his feet. He can tour anywhere, big crowds, lots of money. And he ends up retreating to a Catholic Abbey and being religious and composing religious music

and also atonal music. He was arguably the first atonal composer by some measures. He was very close to atonality. So he spanned so many styles. He did piano transcriptions of all the Beethoven symphonies. He played piano at a level that no one thought was possible.

So that piece, when he wrote it, people just would have said had they not heard it. Oh, no one could ever play this. But of course, List could play it, and people now today can play it, but it's very, very hard, and you have to be strong. And the strength of it,

he's drawing from the motifs of the nationalists who are in charge, military marches, and turning it into some kind of very definite vision of liberation. It has some things in common emotionally with the John Phillipsuzer piece. the way in which it retreats and keeps on coming back stronger,

stars and stripes forever does that same thing. It seems like it has a narrative structure as well. It feels like it's telling a story. It's not structured like a song. And I believe it's supposed to be the story of Count Rokoxi, who is a Transylvanian noble who fought for Hungarian independence and failed at it. List's followers are paying homage to Rokoxi.

The dynamics are incredible, wildly energetic. It's really a dramatic. dramatic piece of music. Absolutely. Very moving. Yeah. That's from the 1840s. Now, for contrast,

there's another Hungarian set of independence pieces by Bartok, which I think we're about in the 1920s now. So your friend, Wikinger-Olofsson, has by far the best

recording of this, Bartok, Hungarian folk songs. But by the time we get to the 1920s, the vision is far less definite. It's far less self-convinced. Bartok is pulling folk songs from all over the Austro-Hungarian Empire. I don't think he's expecting anymore

for Hungary to be independent. He's saying Hungary is part of this broader European order, so he's forward-looking in a way that you may or may not think is good, but it's not narrowly Hungarian, it's Austro-Hungarian. The folk songs, again, are from many different places, not just Hungarian villages, and there's a tentativeness to the music, which is very alluring. But again, you'll notice immediately the emotional difference. that compared to the list. And Olafson is such a good player. Really magnificent piece of music.

The first movement sounds so intimate and personal, almost like it's not for us to be listening to. Like it's private. And it's sad. It's like a homage to a disappearing culture. The self-confidence of list is not there. Mortaugh, you almost hear him thinking, well, what's coming in the future?

He's not sure. Again, this is after World War I, before World War II. he's right to be uncertain. The third movement sounds like it's for public consumption. It puts on a more brave face than the first movement. Really beautiful.

Pastic pieces. I've never heard that before. No one plays them, I think, better than Olifson. He's so good. This idea of the confusion of what's really the unit, is it Hungary, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, is it Europe, today the EU?

This is a recurring theme in patriotic music. The people don't have this figured out. out, and very often they get it wrong. So an example of maybe them getting it wrong, we're going to listen to Dvorzhak, one of the Slavonic dances number three. This is Opus 46 number three, not Opus 72. It's a few minutes long. Now, Dvorzhak was from what we today call Czechia, but it wasn't Chequia back then. This is the 1878 we're talking about. So Dvorzok's vision, at least in these pieces of music, is that the future was for the Slavonic peoples to

reassert themselves. Arguably, when the Soviet Union, mainly a Slavonic nation, came to rule over Czechoslovakia, that vision turned out to be a big mistake, and Czechia has done better when it's connected to Europe further west, typically. But the Slavonic dances give one vision, arguably confused and mistaken, but beautiful and lovely dance number three. That's the first piece of dance music we listen to. That's right. Philip Sousa maybe learned something from that piece. I'm not used to hearing it played that quickly. Usually it's slower and a bit sadder, more plaintive, more autumnal. It sounds like Strauss.

Absolutely, yeah. Of a similar time period? Strauss is later, and probably drew from DeVoisac, and they're both drawing from folk musics. You know, DeVorzac came to America, spent a good bit of time here, and he drew a lot of themes from black spirituals and gospel songs, and that's in other parts of his music,

not even his nation, of course. but he was a borrower. Slavonic dances are not mainly from folk songs, but they're his attempt to build this vision of some kind of Slavonic future musically. Now here's a very strange story. I'm sure you'll know the music. William Tell is a kind of Swiss national hero.

It's not clear he ever even existed, but in medieval times he supposedly fought for Swiss independence or what was to become Swiss independence against what we later think of as the Habsburg Empire. And we had an Italian composer, Rossini, writing an opera in French and doing an overture for William Tell that everyone knows,

but it's an example of how something that is connected to nationalism and patriotism ends up being known for something totally different. It's that 19th century self-confidence again. What's interesting about that is it's written by an Italian, I think he was living in Venice, and I associate it with the Lone Ranger.

Of course. And it sounds like Western music, I think of Sergio Lione's movies. There seems to be this crossover between Italians and Americans as it relates to Westerns. That's right. Why is that?

There's something about the theatrical flare of the American Western that is captured in this overture, so to borrow it for Lone Ranger, which is where I heard it first as a kid, it makes perfect sense, I think. It sounds so American to me. And yet it's also so Italian.

Yeah. You know, the main story of William Tell comes from Friedrich Schiller, a German. So just all the different nations are jumbled in there. And no one cares that it doesn't make sense, I think, is one of the important points. No, and music sounds like a celebration. Yes.

Now let's delve into the deep. steeply weird. Stockhausen, Cirqueau at 1966-67. This piece is called hymnen, H-Y-M-N-E-N-N-E-N, the German plural for hymns. Stockhausen wrote a piece about two, it wrote is not exactly the word, but constructed a piece about two hours long, we'll only hear two or three minutes, but he deconstructed 40 national anthems electronically, and he turned them into electronic music. This piece was one of the influences on Paul McCarton. when he drew from Stockhausen. So vaguely you might hear

some things in there that the Beatles took from, say, on Sergeant Pepper. What do we know about it? I think it's Stockhausen's Utopian vision. He was a utopian. You still hear national anthems in the distance, right? But they're fading into the background. And I think he's imagining a future world

where national anthems don't matter that much. Things are somehow global. and electronic, and everything is processed. Sound familiar? And that's what he wrote the piece of music about. And at the time, people just thought it was lunacy. But as an artwork, it makes more sense today, because we're living into something closer to that world.

And periodically, a national anthem will emerge in the background and then fade away, and you keep on returning to the electronics. The two hours of it, it doesn't change that much. It cycles through different anthems. but it keeps on going, like the short excerpt you heard, Stokhausen put it out there. There's parts of like I Am the Wallerous or the very beginning of Sergeant Pepper

where the Beatles are using similar techniques toward more commercial ends, but it was a very influential piece of music, and it's still relevant, but not much played or listened to, I think. It seems more dystopian than the Beatles. It's more dystopian, but I think Stockhausen viewed it as utopian.

I view it as dystopian. Yeah. But he thought through music he would achieve a Wagnerian kind of transformation of first Germany and then the world through this grand vision, which I, for one, would not want to live under. But there it is. One controversial thing about Himnan, there's a Nazi song, Horst Vessel Lead, where he includes a very brief excerpt that was super controversial in Germany at the time. And Stockhausen said, I'm not a Nazi, but this is also part of the past. And it should be in the blend. one can agree or disagree, but that's what the piece is best known for is actually that controversy. Now here's a racial version of patriotism. There's an Australian composer Percy Granger, and he's ethnically British by origin, but he idolized the Northern European cultures and thought they were racially superior, and through his music tried to elevate them. I think he makes them end up looking quite brutal,

but there's a short song he did called Father and Daughter, which is him representing something from the Farrow Islands, now territory of Denmark. And this is Granger doing some kind of racial version of patriotism. And it turns out to be quite bloody. It's hard to follow the lyrics, but it is about a woman going off with a man, presumably they're having sex,

and the father disapproves, does the man in, and then the daughter burns down the house of the father while the father is sleeping in it. So let's hear that. How did you come across that? I've been interested in Granger lately. He occupies a weird niche corner as a composer, and he's politically unacceptable, but he's interesting, and he did a lot for brass band.

He does a lot from Nordic sources. Some of it, I don't like it all, but it's just another corner of the repertoire. That's from 1912, by the way. It's really interesting. Isn't it? It starts more like an opera and turns into more of a choral piece. An engine murder, a dual murder, so pretty brutal. Yeah.

Now we're going to get back to cheerie. in a moment. But to close out our European section, we have something truly grim. Let's see if you can find the Sacred War from 1941. It's not a famous piece of classical music, but it's very, very famous in Russia and formerly in the Soviet Union. This was composed in June 1941, as we will all recall, the Nazis invade the Soviet Union in June 1941. And within a week, this piece is written by a guy named Alexanderov, who is not otherwise, I think, a very well-known composer, but he wrote this piece, and it's not triumphalist at all, as I understand it. I think it's saying to people like, hey, we could lose this one, which is not what any of the other pieces have done at all.

So I thought this contrasting perspective we should hear. I find it truly grim. He knows what's coming, and it was truly awful. Let's hear what the song has to tell us. Gary, isn't it? Yeah, what are the lyrics? It's exhorting the nation to fight and mobilize. Very cliched, but at the time, what you would expect. And later, it got turned into a tool of Soviet propaganda to legitimize the communist regime, like, hey, we beat the Nazis for you,

and we're going to remind you of how grim it was. So again, very famous song in the Soviet Union. It's got a tremendous amount of energy. Absolutely. It really works for what it was intended to do. Now we're allowed to return to the matters of good cheer. which of course brings us to the Caribbean and Trinidad. So circa early 1960s, the Mighty Sparrow, and the song is Our Model Nation.

This, of course, is Calypso, and Trinidad had just severed from a union with Jamaica. Independence, I think, dates from 1960. There's a brief union with Jamaica. I'm guessing 1961. The dates could be off by a little. Trinidad is on its own by 1962. This song comes out basically as an advertiser.

for Trinidad, it's patriotic about a nation that in a sense is only beginning to exist. And it's funny, when he sings, he runs through all the exports Trinidad has, what a great place it is for tourists to visit, you know, the ethnic diversity there. It's just fun and celebratory for what we then called the Third World, the early 1960s, were an incredibly optimistic kind, because so many nations were just achieving their independence. They had high hopes. This hopes were, in many cases, dashed on the rocks. But the day after you get independence, everything seems great.

The British, French, Portuguese, whoever, they're gone, and you have your own country. And there's a lot of patriotic music from that period. And here's a good example. Our model nation. The whole population of all little nation is not a lot. But oh, what a mixture of racism culture. That's what we.

Still no major indifference of race, color religion of finance, it's amazing to you, I'm sure. We didn't get independence before, which means Trinidad and Tobago. We'll always be born, colonialism, war! Our nation is for everybody. We go follow our leaders. They always do their best. Oh yes we want to achieve we go into aspire

We're born to free a success It is a miracle all these different people can dwell so well You see we are educating to love and forget hatred You know you know it's so You people who are foreign I've got a message to agree you when you go in Spread the word anywhere you pass Tell the world there's a modern nation at last

Which means Trinidad and Tobago We'll always look colonialism Our nation is born We go follow our leaders They always do their best We want to achieve the finest self We're from the best of service The revenue we make from oil

And the pitch look is a dance song, clearly What's the status of Trinidad today? I made a mistake before He says Trinidad and Tobago It's actually the correct name of the country is turned it out in Tobago. It's fully independent. I would say it's done better than most of the Caribbean. There's some real economy there.

There's a pretty good educational system. Fantastic music and the arts. But a lot of inequality, a lot of crime, a mixed bag, but one of the more successful countries of its region. What was the first one in that period to become free? I think in 1960 there were 17 countries that became independent in that year. There were a few, I think, like 56 through 58, and then a whole wave in 1960. If you're looking at the whole everything, United States and then Haiti, the Haitian Revolution were much earlier,

but that post-World War II wave was pretty concentrated. What started the wave? Well, for the British colonies, the British ran out of money. and they just couldn't hold them anymore. And India is 1948. I guess that would be the first. And Gandhi, the independence movement, preceded that by quite a while.

And by the time the war is over, the British just are not close to being able to reexert control. And then other territories, then Burma, now Myanmar, the Japanese actually took over. Much of Indonesia, the Japanese took over, other parts of Southeast Asia.

In Singapore, the Japanese withdraw. And the colonial powers now, it's just over. And the people don't want them back. And the troops, the ruling structures, were all gone. And for Africa, 1960, Grand Cayet, there's a song called Independence Chacha. It's again a dance song, quite cheery. Cuban Rumba'a Chachas Cuban Rumba rhythms, right?

Even though that's Democratic Republic of the Congo. Wow. The Cuban music was super influential in East Africa, mostly brought over by radio and somewhat by touring musicians. I would never have guessed that. And it sounds Cuban in part. But it's still a little different.

The guitar parts are different. The guitar is uniquely Congolese. That's what they added to it. I love it. It's beautiful. It's wonderful. The Great Tragedy, so that's an independent song from 1960, but the country was richer in 1960 than it is today and safer. And do we know why?

Well, you could say mismanagement, but that's begging the question. I've never been there. There's been a lot of war, millions of people killed in war. That's also begging the question. War with who? With each other, but currently war with Rwanda. But civil war is that killed several million people over the last 20 years, which hardly gets any publicity.

And now Rwanda is involved. And Rwanda's a tiny country. And Democratic Republic of Congo is a huge country. But Rwanda's kicking their butt. And it's all a very nasty situation. And the economy, to begin with, was based on resource. extraction, which is maybe a bad place to start for a former colony. And it was a Belgian colony, and the Belgians treated their colonies worse than just about anyone. King Leopold in particular

did terrible things there. And they just had all these negatives in their background, super dependent on the price of copper, and everything went wrong. Parts of it are safe, and I'd like to go someday. But going is somewhat tricky, and the power always goes out. But when I was in Rwanda, I heard a Congolese band play one evening, and they were phenomenal, very much same style as what we just heard. Beautiful music. Yeah.

Such a positive view in such a tragic place as it's turned out. We cannot neglect South America entirely. This song, I strongly suspect, you know. It's become a kind of national anthem of Brazil. You hear it on Brazilian buses even all the time. Gal Costa, Aquarele de Brazil. And this is quite important because she

is basically fair-skinned, but the lyrics of the song are glorifying Afro-Brazilian culture. So you can take this, yes, as a patriotic song, but kind of a marker of white Brazil recognizing how much of the cultural dynamism in Brazil comes from the blacks. And that's what's going on in the song, though through the Portuguese. You know, we don't hear it. But it's taken from a much earlier song from, I think, the third. 20s or 30s, which no one listens to. It's not very good.

And she just brused it up and made it fun. Gal Costa, 1980. What she's singing repeatedly is my Brazilian Brazil. Brazil is so Brazilian, which it is. And, you know, there's talk of Samba, coconuts, palm trees. It's just such an intoxicating vision of Brazil. And somewhat true.

And really popular now. Yeah, people will listen to that song forever, I think. It just captured something. Here is the English version of that song that I'm more familiar with. Brazil, entertaining Heath and Amber Moon. And softly murmured someday soon. We kid and clungings the same. I'm certain of...

Great solo. We now return to the somber, but only for one cut. This is William Bird, Renaissance music, written sometime maybe the 1560s, 1570s, and it's homage to Queen Elizabeth. But the interesting thing is, much of Europe is coming off of religious wars. England has had significant problems with its own religious conflicts, and Verde as a Catholic. And he stayed openly a Catholic, and he's writing him praising Queen Elizabeth's reign over England. He was a kind of court composer.

Yet according to his own Catholicism, she was an abomination, a kind of Antichrist, who had no legitimacy because they claimed independence and superiority over the Pope as the Anglican Church. So was William Bird Ocello? Was he just a pragmatist? He could have converted away from Catholicism, but he didn't, so he was brave. And yet here he is writing this pan to the Protestant Queen of England, who, according to all the other Catholics, is quite illegitimate. So the background is interesting, but when you listen to the piece, to me, it just sounds honorific.

So it's patriotism of a strange sort where one has to suppose, for Bird, the nation, and perhaps his livelihood, meant more than religion that we still preferred to remain a Catholic. How popular was the Catholic Church in England prior to the idea of the Anglican Church? Well, before Henry VIII and the Reformation, the whole country was the Catholic Church. And Henry VIII and some others decide they don't want to have anything to do with this. He wanted to get a divorce. He could not receive a papal dispensation.

But more generally, they wanted to seize and redistribute the resources of the church, the monasteries, an old and familiar story in history. So they kicked out the church. set up their own operation, internalized the rents. The Anglican Church and the Catholic Church are almost identical except for... The Pope, and that's right. King of England is head of the Anglican Church, king or queen. That's the only difference.

So you could think of this as the first Brexit. And the Protestants over time, they changed how the churches looked. They were more sparse, more bare. They changed how the music sounded, less jubilant, and burglant. and Bird was part of that too. So here is Bird's peace in honor of Queen Elizabeth. Technically, it is called,

O Lord, make thy servant Elizabeth our queen. Quite subservient, right? Very beautiful. Bird's a great composer and very consistent. He delivered, right? Absolutely. Yeah, no wonder they kept him around the court because it was an embarrassment to them

to have this Catholic as the main composer for the queen. People are like, what's this? it's still devotional to God. Absolutely. And to his country, which presumably he did love. Now we fast forward to another song about British Queen, 1977. If you can guess this one, it's Sex Pistols.

God Save the Queen, which has been interpreted in a number of ways. I actually view it as a pro-Queen song and a pro-Briton song, but that is contestable to say the least. The BBC refused to play it. There was a conspiracy theory at the time. It got to number two on the charts. Rod Stewart was number one.

The claim was they'll never let it get to number one. Malcolm McLaren played it from a boat near Parliament. On the Thames River, he was arrested. You remember all these controversies, right? Yeah. So at the time, it was considered totally outrageous. But when you get to 2012, when the Olympics are held in London, this song is trotted out.

It's like, oh, pro-British song, we're going to play it for the tourists. It's part of who we are. it's just embraced as part of the United Kingdom. So these songs have multiple sides. I think it was always pro-Queen, but it's very critical of Britain. And the line that keeps on getting repeated is no future. I view the message of the song is we're all being lied to. So 1977, the IMF ballot has come to Britain.

The country is close to bankruptcy. Young people feel they don't have futures. It's a bit like Britain today. They're angry, and they feel they've been lied to, and the nation's not living up to its ideals, but they still actually honor the queen. Now, my interpretation might be wrong. You can tell me what you think. But it's also interesting, you know, Johnny Rotten, who's still around.

He's become a populist patriot. I don't know if the word become is even correct. Maybe he was that all along. I think of punk rock as a populist movement. Yeah. That's what it's about. It's like back to the streets. but it's not totally attacking the culture it's from.

And when they sing, God save the queen, I really mean it. I think they really mean it. You're like, God, please intervene. This isn't going well. We want you to save our queen and our nation. I never heard it that way before. I listen to it and tell me what you think. Not everyone hears it that way, I assure you.

Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure what it's about. Yeah. It's full of energy. It's still a great song, I think. And it's clearly patriotic. Yeah. But in a very funny, different way.

Yeah. And I love the fact that it was brought back for the Olympics and embraced. Yes. But it speaks to the power of the music. Even if it was viewed as anti, it's so great that we celebrate it anyway. And it speaks to the flexibility of Britain. There's another comparison we can play. It also speaks to the flexibility of Britain.

And these are two excerpts from Elgar, who was, unofficially the official state composer for Britain in the early 20th century. So there's something called the Pomp and Circumstance March, which most people will recognize. This is the March number one. And this, we actually want to start at around 140 and the timing on it. So there's the new reign of Edward the 6th that was seen as an era of great promise. 1901, things are going great for Britain, and Algar writes this march that just becomes very famous. We'll hear a brief excerpt from it. We can do the comparison now with the other piece, but that just radiates promise, doesn't it? It's beautiful. It's so airy, so memorable. It just sticks with you. And you hear it, you cannot

help but think of England in particular. It's like Maldiv Kintyre, you think of Scotland, pomp and circumstance, you think of England. Now, 1911, it's only 10 years later. There's a new king, George V, and the global situation, European situation, it's much dicier. Everyone is feeling fear and angst. And Algar writes another piece, it's a coronation march in G minor. And to write a coronation march in a minor key is a courageous decision. And the piece to me radiates stress, love of country, and there's some hope for the new king,

but a fear that we're not living in the world of 1901 anymore. But see what you think. Let's hear a bit. It's pretty introspective for a coronation. Very. It's not anti-King. It's a strong piece of music. The King seems serious, but it's telling you these are serious times. And how well he pulled that off is testament to Algar as a great composer. Yeah, it's not celebratory at all. And compared to a mere 10 years ago. Yes. Really fascinating.

We return to America for our final segment. This is from 1917. It's a World War one song. It's by Charles Ives, more or less a contemporary of Elgar. And the song is called Tom Sails Away. Ives often could be dissonant. But when the war came along, he supported it. This is American involvement in World War I, which starts in 1917. But it's about Tom a boy being sent away to fight. And I think the title of the song in the lyrics, Tom Sails Away, you're wondering, did Tom just get on the boat, or is Tom sailed away to heaven, or he's passed on? And there's a deliberate ambiguity. So it's a patriotic song, but it's very sad, and it's a recognition of loss from fighting, which not all of our other war songs gave us.

Certainly not John Phillips-Souza. So let's hear Charles Ives worrying about American casualties. Tom sails away. Well, it sounds distinctly European to me, other than the, perversion of it. Yeah. Eyes was like that. He was mischievous. He never quite delivers what you're expecting. It's a very sad song for me. Yeah, it's different than everything else we listen to. To hearken back to Country Joe and the Fish, be the first one on your block to have your boy come home in a box. That's the 1917 way people made that point, and it's the exact same point. Yeah,

it's much more dissonant and disconnected. Country Joe was really, really having fun with the idea. That's right, and not covering up the rebellious part of it. For a final few songs, some of these are well-known, or at least they're well-known to boomers, but if you were to ask me, feel free to make your own nomination, by the way, after I do mine, like, Tyler, what song to you makes you feel patriotic? And it's quite subjective, but it's an interesting test to run on yourself. And I have a definite nomination, and it's the Chuck Berry song, Sweet Little Sixteen,

which is not normally thought of as a patriotic song, but the vision it portrays of an America united across all these fantastic cities, listening to rock and roll and enjoying it, makes me feel really good about my country. And that to me is like my patriotic song. They're really rocking in Boston and Pittsburgh, PA, deep in the heart of Texas,

and around the Frisco Bay. Little 16 she just got to have about a half a million famed autographs her wallet filled with pictures she gets them one by one becomes so excited watch her look at her run for her in the show because they'll be rocking on Philadelphia Pia She's got the grown-up blue Tight dresses and little sticks She's sporting high-heel shoes

Oh, but tomorrow She'll have to change a trend And be sweet 16 And back in class again Great soul The rhythm section, the piano, it all fits together Yeah And I love how he sings Pittsburgh PA

As if there is some other Pittsburgh In Philadelphia, PA The Excess Literature. of it. And back then, those were much more important places than they are now. But is there a song you have where you hear it, you think of it, and that for you is a patriotic song? Okay, here's mine. So why did you pick that one? I remember living in New York, before I'd ever been to California and hearing this song, it made me dream of California. And I would see people driving up and down sunset strip on television and driving Pacific Coast Highway. And it just looked like

a dream place. And I hope that someday I would get to go there, even one time, just to get to see that. So the song has a powerful resonance about going somewhere else, but both where I'm coming from and where I'm going are all part of America. For me, the song's great for evoking a mood. But let me ask you a more general question, thinking about what your song will be. And just hearing all these songs and cuts from different genres, different countries, what do you think we do learn about patriotism? For me, we learn how complex patriotism is, how multifaceted it is, how easily it can be repurposed toward other ends, how slippery it is.

You think you understand it, you have your hands around it, it's the simple thing, but it turns out it's not the simple thing. And maybe music and the history of music shows us all that better than mere discourse. but what's your impression? Anytime you bring a poetic interpretation to something, you start seeing different angles that are not there on the face. And I think with respect to my own patriotism, I'm most pleased by the subtle takes on patriotism.

So say the Andrews sisters, boogie-wogie-buggle boy of Company B. I like that song more now in relative terms than when we started this all exercise, because I see it compared to the... others, and it doesn't have the same durable reputation in every way, but it has something else that's real. I would say it's one of the most patriotic songs we listen to. Absolutely.

And I don't know that I would have framed it that way before, but when you're collecting songs with a filter, you start understanding them in new ways. The sex pistols went up in my eyes. Most of the music, in fact, the Eastern European musics, maybe they strike me as a little repetitive, not musically, but ideologically. Well, they all want national independence. Russia, the Ottoman rulers, they're bad. I very much side with them.

But somehow it seems a little less interesting to me than it might have 30 years ago. I think that John Philip Sousa and the Elgar are the most what I expect when I think about patriotic music. You need a pompous circumstance, Elgar, not the coronation mass in G minor. Correct, the first one we listened to. I love the coronation mass.

I vaguely heard that in the past, but to really sit down and listen to it. That's one of his best achievements, I think, though it's not usually thought of as such. We are talking about patriotic songs, and no country music came up. I figured that was a bottomless pit of sorts, and I would just rule it out. Same with Bollywood, which can be very good, and there's plenty, plenty there. There's a lot of things where you just have to cut corners to have any finished product at all. but there's plenty, plenty in country music, but I know country music much less well

than these other areas also. Now, this is a real classic. Jimmy Hendrick's Star-Spangled Banner at Woodstock, 1969. One of my favorite, the songs flat out, but it's raucous and dissonant. Jimmy went on the DeKavichau and Dick Havitt asked, and Jimmy, why do you do this? And he said, well, I'm an American,

and then he said that he found it beautiful, as do I. but he takes a sledgehammer to the song and then in the middle there's the melody where he plays taps on his electric guitar which of course is Song of Morning so there's a sad part of it and it's referring almost certainly to the Vietnam War in 1969

but I think it's just amazing what he does with the guitar and with the song Marvin Gaye Whitney Houston had good and interesting versions of Star-Spangled Banner but I think Jimmy is the best It's beautiful. He's playing the song and doing the sound effects for the movie

at the same time. With such an economy of means. And knowing that he played as the sun was rising, it must have been quite a feeling in the space. To have been there, yeah. Muddy, grounds, it had been raining, everything. A mess. People strung out.

Some people sick. I wonder if he'd ever played that song before, He had. He played it quite a bit. He did. Yeah, it was a common thing. That was in the mid-period of his playing that song. I don't know of any other recording of it, though. Yeah, I was just wondering if it was more of a commentary on Woodstock the place bringing all these people together

was a symbol of America for him, so he wanted to play it. Yeah. For our very last song, we just need to let off steam after that one, right? So this one is actually based on a Bach Choral and turned based on an earlier secular song, Europe, but Paul Simon, an American tune, which I find quite lovely. The version from the album, there goes Riemann Simon. I think it's 1974, but around then. The Bach Chorale is from St. Matthew's passion. And this to me was Paul Simon at his peak, maybe. The phrasing of the vocal line.

I enjoy so much in how he did this. times confused Yes, and I've often felt forsaken And certainly misused Oh, but I'm all right, I'm all right I'm just weary to my bone Still, you don't expect to be bright and born Vivant so far away

So, no, so I don't have a friend who feels at ease That's not It's all still a liberty Sailing load We come on a ship that's safe And day That's all I get so

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