The Ben and Emil Show - BAES 164: Is Hank Green lying?

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

Ben and Emil discuss the Hank Green controversy, and whether using AI is evil. Ben has an..."illuminating" conversation with Claude in the bonus. For bonus episodes, discord access, fan Q&A, merch, Ben's monthly playlist, and to support the show: https://benandemilshow.com/ The Chase Sapphire 100,000 point bonus is here! https://www.thecreditcardlist.com Give this video a thumbs up if you enjoyed it! And please leave us a comment! It helps us! For all you audio freaks: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7M0vN85aGO0zdh62hyg03I Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ben-and-emil-show/id1693270208 Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/51280f1b-2fbd-4ea9-bdde-e96f70b5b1ae/the-ben-and-emil-show iHeart: https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-the-ben-and-emil-show-117763570/ Follow us! TikTok - https://tiktok.com/@thebenandemilshow Instagram - https://instagram.com/benandemilshow Twitter - https://x.com/benandemilshow Ben - https://instagram.com/bencahn Emil - https://instagram.com/emilderosa https://www.youtube.com/emilderosa https://substack.com/@emilderosa Our newest acid video is out now so check it out! https://youtu.be/7vkFY3f5kkw Some other videos of ours you may enjoy: https://youtu.be/qX4pks0ASq8 https://youtu.be/_VOVxt3ZtIE https://youtu.be/5wsoc5pieuA https://youtu.be/dTbEk0pVh2w https://youtu.be/yGSs56bFzRU https://youtu.be/cIHWkY35cuc https://youtu.be/zBvVGHZBpMw https://youtu.be/1ZUWTkWV_MM https://youtu.be/_cM1XqA9n2U Chapters: 00:00 Intro and Ben K-hole tease 04:13 Who is Hank Green 08:40 The clip in question 16:00 The backlash 21:40 Superpower ad 23:40 Navigating using AI today 27:40 The parasocial relationship 34:30 Our use of AI 39:58 Hims ad 41:35 Cultural pachinko machine 49:00 People will filter it 57:00 Anti AI 1:03:00 Friend lol __ SUPERPOWER: Head to https://superpower.com and use code BAES at checkout for $20 off your membership. Get 100+ biomarkers tested every year, a personalized health plan, and on-demand care team. HIMS: For simple, online access to personalized and affordable care for Hair Loss, ED, Weight Loss, and more, visit https://hims.com/baes for your free online visit. Individual results may vary. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This guy's a godfather of the internet. Yeah. He is absolutely a, not only a godfather, a pioneer. All right. And everybody's raking this saint of a man over the coals because, God forbid, a man who works this hard uses a little bit of AI for his research purposes. I have always believed that my audience is more likely to be right than I am. You know what this feels like in a way I can't.

I really like that part. I don't like, I don't understand that. He's saying that like, you're more like. you're more likely to be right than I am about... Yeah, about how it feels. He can't perceive what it's like to be his own audience, better than the audience can. Also, if you're only using it for research...

This is why I think he's lying. I think if you're going to go this far, talk about your dopamine use, talk about how much pressure you've been feeling and all this stuff and you need to feel productive, you're telling me that you've been exclusively been super careful about, like, I'm just using it for some preliminary stuff

so it can bring up some, like, academic paper and then I go read those like 50-page academic papers. I'm like, I don't buy it. All I need to do is chill out. Some guys can't stop. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. He makes me feel like a total underachieving loser. Well, I think that's your own thing that you'll have to work through.

But like... Look at all this shit. How does he have the time and cancer? Because he's running at a clip that he can't keep up with. He's got ADD. He's got ADD. He's got ADD. What is going on, everybody?

What is going on? What the hell is happening? What is happening? Man, I don't even know anymore. God Almighty. Hey, you came to the right place. If you want to know what's going on. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a meal.

That's Ben. I'm Ben. Hi. I just freaking shit myself. No, I didn't. And this week, we are talking about Hank Green. We're broadly talking about the morality of AI use kind of. You know, we've talked about AI a lot on the show, obviously. Yeah.

We've talked about these massive tech companies who, impact the market and everything. We've talked about the bubble and the financials of it all. We've talked about... The bublee? Impacts on people, but we haven't really talked about... We've talked about the environmental impacts, too. But we really haven't talked about this aspect,

and this really, this Hank Green thing really does open up a interesting... In worms. Yeah, I mean, it does. I think you're seeing a lot of people fall, you know, fall down. on the line and how they use it,

whether, how they feel about this thing, basically. Yeah. So we'll get in all that in just a moment. If you miss the Q&A, Ben and Mealshow.com, sign up there. It's up there. Maybe you can ask a question for next time. And also, hey, next week, we got a huge, huge banger of an episode all about Costco. And we shot like over an hour of footage inside Costco. That'll be on Ben and Amel Show.com only for subscribers.

So be sure to go there and sign up and check that out. Comment of the week is going to have. happen at the end of the episode, so stay tuned for that. So let's get right the heck into what? I was making fun of you. Oh, yeah, because I was going like this. Totally fine. Don't worry about it. Don't get distracted. And also, so guys, in the in the bonus, I'm going to be sharing some, what I found to be interesting excerpts from my weekend chat with Claude, wherein I was, I'm not allowed to explicitly say on YouTube what I was doing, but I will tell you it is...

Yeah. Yeah. And then, so that thing that I just mentioned, I was using that while I was talking to Claude. And I'm sure... I'm worried about you. No, it's going to be great. You'll see.

It's in the bonus at Benademielster.com. Hank Green. Hank Green. Some are even calling him clank green right now. Are they really? I saw like a... Oh, that's funny. It is a little funny.

I don't... I want to be clear, too. I don't really know all that much about Hank Green I know so much now At first I was like maybe I'm not the best guy to talk about it But I actually think I'm a great person to talk about it Because there's also a lot of people who I think Are talking about this

It's people who already hated Hank Green or are like good How can you hate this guy? Or it's people who are like deeply connected to Hank Green And are like maybe not able to see the full picture Because they're like Hank it's okay Whatever I have no feelings about this man

He seems like a nice guy He seems like a very nice guy Who tries to do He's an overachiever for sure Jesus Christ When I was reading about this guy I'm like holy God Mr. Four Eyes

Geez Louise But all that is I'm not here to dogpile I'm the guy I think Can we go to the other one The Hankin his brother Boy this guy loves his brother

So in 2000 This is on Hankinjohn.com And I was surprised at first And by the way If you know all the stuff, bear with me, because I... Well, we don't have to go into his whole biography here. I mean, I don't think it'll be

helpful for people. They, well, this gives a background on just how, this guy's a godfather of the internet. He is absolutely a, not only a godfather, a pioneer, he kind of, um, he was one of the very first to do like vlogs, really, and he did it

with his brother. They called it vlog brothers. Uh, they started a, uh, they started a website, a a company called Complexly. And from that, they started a bunch of educational YouTube channels called Crash Course, SciShow, PBS, Eons, healthcare triage, the art assignment. And between those channels, they have 18 million subscribers. Wait, his brother wrote The Fault in Our Stars. Dude, so that's the thing.

I'm reading his brother. We also both write books, though one of us has been at it for longer. John's novels include Looking for Alaska, paper towns, an abundance of Catharines, the Fault in Our Stars, and Turtles all the way down. And I was like, wait, what the fuck? So both of these guys, they've got bestselling books. And then they also do charity stuff. I don't know how the book is. I just, it's that crappy movie where the girl has cancer or something?

Yeah, the girl got cancer. Then the guy do be getting cancer also. And he dies before her. That's what happens too. He gets cancer? I believe he has cancer the whole time. Okay. We're getting off track here.

They've distributed more than $5 million to charities, nonprofits, and educational projects. All right. And everybody's raking this saint of a man over the coals because, God forbid a man who works this hard uses a little bit of AI for his research purposes. You know what, though? He also was a founder of VidCon

for Christ's sake. For Jesus Christ's sake. I do think he's lying. About what? Someone basically tweeted a and we can play the video. It's very short. I don't think we'll get copyright struck for it, but basically someone clipped out one of his latest videos. It sounded like AI.

It had a very you know, common AIism. Yes. And I appreciate the pushback is what it was. Right. Which I would have never, I probably would have never noticed had I been watching something. But I also don't engage with stuff like this. I don't, not like a video essays guy. Also, wait, it's very funny. I didn't realize it's a video called Does Hank Green Shave His Butt. All this over. Well, because that's part of a thing called Ask Hank Anything, which was born out of his TikTok. He answered questions on TikTok and that became that became super viral with a young

crowd. Yeah. But that doesn't answer why it's called, it's a very silly. Someone asked the question must have asked. Do you shave your butt? Yeah, that's the question she asked him. Okay, well. It came from a woman named Soupy Time. So what do you expect? She's popular on TikTok. She's popular on TikTok. Just play a clip. Yeah, okay. Let's go. Seems to be based in the sounds themselves. Buba is all soft and voiced and round, and Kiki is sharper and it's got those stops. So, does this mean that words aren't made up? No, words are definitely made up.

But it does mean that there are things that matter to a community of brains creating language together. That does not mean that Buba naturally means round in the secret language of the universe. It means that when humans are asked to attach sounds to things, the sounds are not blank. They matter. There's a thing in there that matters, and that's very cool. A better way to say it. And I appreciate the pushback.

Is a word is a human invention. And human inventions are made... Did you catch it? Did you catch it? There's a couple. So someone clip that little video, put it on Twitter, and was like, this is kind of disappointing that this ended up in the script. It feels like maybe he's using AI to write his scripts, which I do agree.

That is disappointing if you're like... If you're engaging with the creator and he's just kind of... reading out AI generated scripts to you. Yeah. And we have his response, which this was the big... I said, I produced this under a ton of pressure, so I went and checked my process from start to finish. I did use ChatGPT for research on this script,

and watching it, I definitely get an AI feel. So I think it's fair to say I was relying too much on generated notes. That's the thing I've been doing, and it's a bad habit at a time when I've overcommitted myself. But I just went to the notes and the script for this, and neither contained the I appreciate the pushback line, So that particular moment was an ad lib in reference to my guest, pushing back on me saying that words are purely made up. So, but that's a strange...

It's all very weird. But when I first read it, I was like, okay, fine. I don't know how much, this much about this guy if he's like using it for preliminary research, whatever. Sure. Then he deletes that and he posts a much longer... Thing on Reddit. Reddit... apology? He, I mean, I'm not going to read the entire thing, but there's certain excerpts of it that are important.

He says, I'm not a pure AI hater, which people in the AI industry know. So when I say that the way these models were trained deeply disturbs me, that lands differently. He also, just above that says, what I can't guarantee is that we will agree about this technology or what to do with it. I think that's good. We need a lot of, we need a lot of kinds of folks critiquing this technology. What's funny, real, as an aside, real quick, I feel like a lot of AI might be trained on his content. There's a strong chance. 100%. Yeah. But I'm not absolving him.

I'm just saying. But I've seen people making the argument. Like, you guys don't understand. The AI has scraped the internet and trained on it. Do you know how many hours it's consumed of the vlog brothers? He doesn't sound like AI. AI sounds like him. And I'm like, oh, I'm not going that direction.

No, no, I know. I'm just saying there are people who are using. that as a like, he, he only sounds that way because he, the AI is built off him. I'm like, do you know how, like, what chunk do you think is him in the, like, come on? I just find it annoying because I hate the way AI talks. And I'm like, fuck you, Hank Green. If that, if you, if you contributed to this, then that's why I'm mad at you. I don't think. For talking that way, quit talking that way. And I appreciate the pushback. To be, to be honest, honestly, honestly, you're right to call that out. I think more than anything.

you're right to call that out. It's all of us. Yeah. We, it's pushing stuff out back to us. He says, it is very likely that you, the reader, and I disagree on how or even whether AI should be used. I think it makes sense for that disagreement to exist. But I also have always believed that my audience is more likely to be right than I am. You know what this feels like in a way I can't.

I really like that part. I don't like, I don't understand that. He's saying that like, you're more likely to be right than I am about. Yeah, about how it feels, because he can't perceive what it's like to be viewing. He can't perceive what it's like to be his own audience, better than the audience can. And I'm so sorry for diluting myself in this way and harming the thing that we have all built together. He says, I've just been feeling the pressure of, oh, I have this little live video idea. I just need to get it out.

But making more things does not make me make better things. It does not make the big thing that we've been doing for 20 years better. I know that I can manage myself more effectively. I want to make videos like the one I made yesterday where the writing was the whole thing, and I felt it all the way down and have been so enriched by people's responses to it. But mostly, I need, this is where it gets interesting. Mostly, I need to come to terms with the fact that the level of dopamine I've been getting from interacting with LLMs with doing more and more and more and more is not healthy for me

or good for the world. It is careless and has disconnected me from where people are on this. I was just talking about this with Catherine last night and she did not pull any punches. Frankly, neither did John. Neither of them think I've been being healthy. I need to readjust. That's his wife and his brother.

Also, if you're only using it for research... This is why I think he's lying. Pray tell. What are you fucking... This is why I think he's lying. And I don't think it's the biggest deal that he's lying. Me either. I honestly don't think you needed to apologize in the first place.

Me either. I think that's like your number one mistake when you're dealing with people on the internet is apologizing to them. You can never make them happy. They're all... Amen. brother. Whatever. But

I think if you're going to go this far, talk about your dopamine use, talk about like how much pressure you've been feeling and all this stuff and you need to feel productive, you're telling me that you've been like exclusively been super careful about like, I'm just

using it for some preliminary stuff so it can bring up some like academic papers and then I go read those like 50 page academic papers. I'm like, I don't buy it. Especially when a guy is stretched this thin. Right. And so it sounds like the AI use has gotten away from him a little bit,

and I don't think he's being completely honest. It also feels like people have pointed out before this that his channel was taking out a bit of a different feel. You know, like it didn't feel like the old Hank. It felt a little like AI-ish. You know you're right to point that out. I don't think he's being completely honest. I think he also doesn't need to, like, self-flagellate in front of the entire internet for...

I think everyone needs to figure out how this tech is going to be in our lives. Yeah. And it's extremely new. It's also being... I'm curious, like, how these... I'm curious how, like, full anti-AI people have been able to, like, just completely stay away from it. You can't Google something without using... Yeah.

Yeah. It's just like a... Yeah. It's just right... It's there all the time. Yeah. I just before... Because that's...

I want to have that conversation. But this guy and these fans... By the way, it was one person who pointed that out and then someone else put it on Reddit. And that person who put it on Reddit ended up editing the post and saying, I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to like stir the pot and, you know, cause this controversy. And it's like, God damn it, man. these fucking people yeah the original tweet

blah blah blah I know I'm not owed an explanation for this but gosh I would love one I'm struggling so much with his admission as someone who's followed him for nearly as long as he's been making videos the other thing I will say is at first because I wasn't quite as familiar with his work

I do understand people's um hard emotions with the fact that I guess he's like technically like education content sure and a science content guy. I think I thought he was purely like entertainery. Yeah.

I do think that changes a little bit. If you're not, if you're holding yourself out as an educator content and educational content guy and you're not like being a bit, being as rigorous as you should be. The way I see it is. Put you in a different stratosphere. This guy is a father. He's a husband. He has written two books. He has such an active online presence.

he's got a couple charities he's got this entire media company he like in his free time he developed a couple games that he used it looks it appears he used Claude to vibe code a couple cool little projects it's

more than acceptable to me that he used AI to if it's as much as he said to within that scope of him just using it to research I think that is well beyond excusable He made this cool website. Artemis 2 photo timeline that he puts in the FAQ is like a,

it was something that he vibe coded with Claude just because he thought it was an interesting thing. Like, people just need to get the fuck, step the fuck back. But I think he has put so much out there. And he is so, also, he's, he had cancer for Christ's sake three years ago. Like, get off the guy's fucking neck. God Almighty. It would be one thing if it was, I don't know, like, go on.

I don't know if that's completely fair. I think it's okay for people to feel strange about the content they're consuming, especially if they think it's coming from completely human-created things. Yes, agree. And I think if that was the case, he was using it for a little bit of research stuff. My thing is, I don't necessarily believe him on that. And all those things you're saying, he does this, he does that. He doesn't have to do all that.

You were saying last night, I didn't realize this. D though, dude. I don't care. You were saying, you were texting as being like, he's worth all this money. I had no idea. I'm just guessing. Well, but I mean, it makes sense. I mean, and after you text to that, I've seen people online being like, he's most definitely a very wealthy person. I don't know exactly what pressure he's feeling. There's no, like, some creators, man, so he doesn't have to do all these things. It also reminds me of, I actually, it came up in the Q&A because I feel like it was like

two Q&As in a row that we did. People were kind of asking us about like AI use and feelings about it and how ubiquitous it is. And I was like, I don't have a fully formed opinion on it all. And I had mentioned, at least this last time, if not both times, the book by Cory Docteroyo. If you don't know, Cory Docteroyo, he's the inshittification guy. That's like his claim to fame. He wrote the book and coined the phrase.

But he, can you Google it? I think it's called the Reverse Centaur or like how to, and how to think about life after AI or something. Oh yeah, the reverse centaur's guide to life after AI, how to think about artificial intelligence. And if you click the picture, you'll see, it's a very nice metaphor. He talks about a centaur in the tech world, in tech parlance, is someone who is almost like a mythical centaur. There's a human torso on top of a horse's body. But that's the opposite. That's a horse hit on a human butt. I'll get there. And so in any kind of riding a bike, you know, your center.

You're using your human body with the assistance of this tech, a car, all of these things. Where the problem comes in is when it's the reverse. You become the assistant to tech. And I have read it since. I was, you know, I was like, we've got enough questions. I'm just very curious what, who Corey Doctor, who is much smarter than me, very prolific. And I really liked this, this metaphor. and I honestly think it's really applicable

to what happened here. I think he probably at first was like, oh, I can use this as a tool. It's very helpful. I'm being more productive. And it honestly feels like he's now the reverse centaur where he can't keep up

with his own output. Yeah. He is, he can't, he can't do the proper checks he needs to do. That's why you start hearing these like AIism

slip into his own his own scripts. He probably hasn't read it and is just going off of... He trusts it. Yeah. Which is another thing he talks about in the book, which I didn't really think about. It's a term called automation blindness,

where the thing gets good enough that you start to just trust it and you stop, even though we're supposed to be the check against it, like the Google AI overview is a perfect example of one where at first everyone was making fun of it and people would Google things and they would screenshot and go look how stupid this fucking thing. Yeah, how to make a pizza and it's like you use

worms and mud. But then it got oh yeah, automation blindness is a cut. Look, I'm reading the thing. But look at the source. The source is Cory Doctor-O. Oh, great. It's a cognitive limitation where human supervisors lose the ability to detect errors in automated or AI systems because the technology is correct most of the time. So now everyone and you can see it with like

it's like a relationship between a child and his father. Your dad's right most of the time. But sometimes your dad is wrong. Pretty serious negative impacts. Hey guys, we got to take a quick break to talk about superpower. I am a superpower user. I actually just took my second. So that's why you had that thing yesterday on your arm.

Oh, yeah. I pointed it out on our call. Did you point it out? Maybe I didn't get to you. But yeah, I had a little bit of a, you can see my little mark because I had gotten my labs done for another superpower checkup. Can't wait to see how your biological age is age. Yeah, to see how all my levels are doing.

Hopefully I'm staying even because everything was pretty good last time. I think I scored very well. But if you don't know, superpower is a company that helps you track all of your vitals. If you're like me at all, you've heard me talk about this, where you go to the doctor every year, you do your physical, you do your labs, and then they go, okay. We think it's all good. Get out of here. And we don't validate parking. And they don't tell you that much about your health.

You don't really have a full picture. Superpower changes that. Yeah. It's like having a video game with all your stats. You got all your data centralized into one dashboard. And you can see the trends instead of just treating a single lab result as an isolated event. You can see how your biomarkers change across multiple tests and better understand what's happening inside your body over time. You can even connect your wearable devices like Apple Watch or Ring or Woop to continue.

continuously track your progress all in one place. And as your health changes, your protocol evolves with you. The superpower AI continuously monitors trends and patterns, clinicians, review decisions, edge cases, and changes that matter. So start building a smarter picture of your health with superpower. For a limited time, our listeners get $20 off to unlock their membership. Head over to superpower.com and use code Baze for $20 off your $199 Superpower membership. And after you sign up, they'll ask you how you heard about Superpower.

Tell them Bayes sent you to support the show. But you can see it too. Like people have stopped going to, you can check like web traffic after the implementation of the AI overview and stuff, right? People have just started being like, this is good enough. It gets me there. Great products by Google.

Oh, I mean, they're just swallowing up everyone's. But I think that Hank has fallen victim to this. this. And I don't think he's, um, I don't think he's alone. I don't think he's, uh, I don't think we need to like punish him or cancel him. It seems like he's also got people in his life who are like, hey, you're, um, you're clearly falling victim to some of these things. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, I, I do really think people should read that book. And it's a helpful way to kind of navigate the AI thing. Tech in general. I mean, you want to make sure you're the, the, the, you want to make sure you're the, the, you want to make sure you're the human torso on top of the horse body, not the other way around it. And you're using

it as your assistant, not assisting it. Can you, Luke, can you pull up that screenshot that you shared in Slack? I wanted to share just a couple different takes. So this person said, the Hank Green controversy just feeds into the unfortunate conclusion that no apology on the internet has ever been successful. And this person replied, what did he do? And the original person says he included an AI answer in a script for a video. And then someone else wrote, no, he plagiarized the script and lied about it. It was discovered because the slop was so bad. And then someone else said, he didn't even do that.

He used AI to track down research material and papers to read. It just becomes, it just, it's just a, it just becomes a big game of a monkey telephone. But to be, monkey telephone. To be fair, we don't really know what he did. No, we don't. He like, and you know what? He's telling us he used it for research. search. Yeah. And we can either believe him. I don't necessarily think that's the case. I feel like he

went, he's really overextended. And I don't think he was just like asking it for asking it for to list some papers out so he could then go read the, you know, 100 page paper. Someone else put it quite as, quite well. Hank has built his entire platform on being a trusted, knowledgeable, scientific voice. He has completely undermined his own credibility, the very thing that made him. That's a britt. Come on. Slow down, man. This one instance where it, like, Okay, so I feel like this is a good segue into talking about... I am all... It's very difficult for me.

I feel like I'm always being pulled in different directions on it. Can you just scroll to that reply right there? I am sympathetic to this stuff a little bit too. So someone responded and said, and now AI supporters can go, Hank Green uses it. What's the big deal? It's a good tool. Like, Hank doesn't seem to acknowledge how much he's compounding the issue

by normalizing it to millions of other people. What a fucking dick. Which I don't think That's the thing I'm like I don't think he's a dickhead I think it's just like part of a

slide to the normalization of using this in ways that are potentially unhealthy Yeah I just I just

I'm not a fan of the parissocial relationship and what was the other parissocial ownership Parassocial ownership I do think that's a massive part of the story

It's not just AI use. It's also like the parasycial relationship and parasycial ownership. I forgot who coined it. There was just a person online who coined that term. But it's basically, it takes the parasycial relationship to another level where if a fan of a creator or whatever content channel or whatever has been around for long enough, they start to feel, especially they've been financially supporting it, they start to feel a sense of ownership and entitlement to the content that comes out. And if someone disappoints them, like Hank Green did, you get this pushback. And I just think it, I don't know, I've found in my years and years and years of being online and making stuff online and having friends who've made stuff, having friends who have risen to the top and then fallen back down, I am not talking about Cody. relax.

But there's sometimes you just see how quickly, and it goes with celebrities too. People are, people love to tear others down. They love to turn on a dime and go, I never like that guy. Fuck that guy. Fuck that piece of shit. God forbid, you know, if something ever happened to me like that, I am sure that there would be at least a dozen people out there who, who, who, would who would dance on my grave. But it sucks because it is, I was going to say it's a vocal minority

dictating things, but it would seem, I guess, relative to Hank's audience, it's still a vocal minority. I'm sure that most people don't really care and would probably agree that he's going, like, dude, does self-flagellate, chill out? But also, he does need to chill out, clearly. That's the thing. He does need to chill out. I also do think that people are entitled to some transparency, transparency around the way it's created. And if you were just engaging with someone who is building out

chat generated scripts and just reading them off, that sucks. Honestly, you're right to point that out. It gets better every time. It's really good. But, so that's where I'm like, I don't want to just like absolve him. I don't, yeah, I don't think, you know, he needs the

pitchforks or whatever. Yeah. But I do think... Kill him. I do think people are entitled to know how he's using it. Absolutely. And if you were just getting like...

I also... I'm also just like against... I don't know. If you want to learn about something, read a book or something. I don't know. I don't think... Nobody knows how to read anymore.

I mean, that is a huge problem. I don't think... I don't think going to a YouTube video essay or whatever is the best way to learn about stuff. So I'm already... bit like I don't want to pretend like it's this like sacred art form. But yeah, if you're going to do it and hold yourself out as an educator,

please don't like just read off a... It's education entertainment. Sure. And like Bill Nye before him and reading Rainbow and whatever the fuck, Barney the damn dinosaur. He wasn't educational. He was just good old fashioned fun. But man, oh man. Yeah, these people, I mean, we've done it before where we've been like, oh shit we upset you know

what it feels like oh my God everybody's mad at us and then you're like oh shit what did we do why did we why do you why give in to you know the crowd what was that

you just pulled up the the conchrist oh and someone apparently is pointing out that he may have used uh oh he apparently admitted to using an LLM to merge two chapters of his book together

he used it for like advice on how that would go Oh, he responded to it. Trust me, this book is 100% human typing. I've been typing for so long. I asked... 100% human typing. I asked an LLM for advice on the merge and talked through some various options before deciding how I wanted to do it. Maybe I shouldn't have done that, but I didn't say, like, please turn these two chapters into one chapter. I cut out of the final episode. I cut it out of the final episode because Catherine and I ended up having a somewhat tense conversation about me working so much on Smush and 4 by 3. Honey, please come to bed Stop working on smush And four by three

This poor guy, dude I mean He don't feel that bad of it for him He's got tons of money All I need to do is chill out and stop like Some guys can't stop Yeah, I mean that's the He makes me feel like a total underachieving loser

Well, I think that's your own thing That you'll have to work through But like Get all this shit How does he have the time and cancer? because he's running at a clip that he can't keep up with. He's got ADD. He's got ADD.

You know, like, Corey Docter points out the, like, a big example uses the AMC, I don't know why I said AMC, Amazon, the Amazon factory, where it's like, it's been, you no longer have the humans using forklifts and tools that are designed for. now they are factories with that are designed for robot use for humans to assist the robots when they can't like complete the task or whatever. And so you have and we talked about it a million times on the show where Amazon has like the highest

accident rate, injury rate, OSHA violations, all of it. Because you have these factories with people running around trying to keep up with the productivity of a robot. And it's really just reminds me of what Hank Green is trying to do here. I don't think he can possibly keep up with this output. Yeah. Did you know, quick aside, that Amazon warehouses just have the products randomly scattered around? So like batteries, you order a pack of batteries, it might just be in a random bin with a bunch of other random crap. I didn't know that. Because if they kept all the

batteries in one place, well, let's say 10 orders come in for batteries at the same time. It would create a log jam. So they just got them in random. Yeah, just like that. They just got them random, no rhyme or reason to it, just random stuff. So that when you go and, you know, when it needs to pick something,

it just knows right where it is. It's got a special, unique house. I just thought that was interesting. Anyway, is it okay to use AI? Let's switch gears here. I have like unashamedly talked about my own use of it. I don't think I've ever used it in a creative way though. For me,

I'm like, I've basically come to the conclusion that as we saw before, Google has Google has been degrading for a long time, even before the AI overview thing. They've implemented their, they've become an ad sales business.

And people have like, for a while. Right. And people have been. Same with Amazon. You know, it's the SEOification of everything. And, you know, and now people like supercharging that with chatbots to just like push products to the forefront of everything it became a lot

worse at doing what I wanted it to do and if it was just going to feed me the AI slop thing anyway I was like well I'd rather have a little bit more control of it I was actually telling you the first time I ever used Claude was because Google could not give me the answer I was looking for Oh yeah what was it for? It was

it was very silly, but... I can't remember. And it's a little difficult to explain. There are some times when you take a left and you... He's talking about driving. Yeah, when you take a left when you're driving, you'll have to go through kind of another intersection, but it's confusing because you pass a red light.

And I got stuck in L.A. You're talking about intersections where it's like a perpendicular... You know what's the best example? you know right by the Vista Theater? Yes, that's exactly the one I'm talking about. Yes. Yes. And so when you make that left, and I got stuck.

Some guy saw the red light, stopped, and then me and a bunch of other people were stuck in the intersection when everything else turned red and the other ones went green. And I was like, this motherfucker. And so then like a couple weeks later, I'm in New York.

I'm on, I think it's Broadway, like on the Upper West Side, and I'm driving. And I take a left, and then I'm kind of in the divider and I'm looking down the other, lane because I'm about to go. And Sarah goes, what the hell are you doing? I'm going to, I'm going through. And she's like, no, you don't, you can't do that. It's illegal. And so I stopped, but we,

when it went green and I went, I was like, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to go through. Yeah. Try Googling that. I could not find an answer. And I wanted to know an answer if you're going to be someone said, put it into Claude. I immediately described the situation to Claude. And Claude told me that you cannot do that in New York. Yeah. it just started to you know it starts to show you that the thing can do it can

it can do things you have to be careful with it because it can it can hallucinate as they say which is like a fancy way of saying that it's fucking wrong and we'll tell you wrong information but then and that was about

a year ago I looked it up it was last August and then I've used it for extremely useful ways. I mean, either on the main episode or in the bonus episode, I've definitely talked about how it's literally responsible for me now having a birth certificate. I did not have a birth certificate. I was born in Germany. Could not navigate German bureaucracy or the German language websites and everything.

And it took me about six weeks from start to finish before I had an apostilleed German birth certificate that came... I was shocked. Yavol. It navigated the whole thing for me. And if I didn't have the piece of paper in my hand, I would have gone like, this is never going to work. I don't think it can do any of those things.

I've used it. I would say I've used Claude. First of all, chat GPT sucks ass. I am shocked whenever I was. That was the other thing when he kept being like, yeah, I used chat GPT. And I was like, okay. Wow.

Aren't you the science guy? Yeah. What do you also drink? R.C. Cola. Fucking jump. All right. Don't stick up for... No, I'm just...

I'm sure... For all the coding. Yeah. Anyway, I've used Claude a handful of times. I use it mainly for stock stuff, surprise. And even when I use it, I'm like, I don't fully trust it. Because I've asked it, for example, I was talking to it and saying, hey, you know, I'm trying to come up with an investment thesis on the coming robotics boom.

Give me some stocks that are like ancillary, not directly robots themselves, but like actuators and batteries and whatever. And it only gave me like five. And I said, I know for a fact that there are these other companies that are part of the robotics supply chain. Why didn't you include those? And it was like, you know, you're right to point that out. I'm sorry. Good catch. I appreciate the feedback. So don't do that because I can't trust whatever output you give me from here run out because I'm always going to be second-guessing now whether that information is up to date. Like, I want up to the minute shit. And now it's gotten a lot better. And I've had it like summarize earnings calls for me and shit. I did famously. I talked about, I think I talked about on this

show. If I didn't, I'm about to embarrass myself. You know, it was a, I don't know how long ago. You talked about your therapy session. Yeah, yeah. I had like therapeutic sessions with it. Not sessions, but just like I had things on my mind and it was late at night and I didn't want to bother anybody because I, you know, and I just was talking to it. And it was very illuminating and I found it immensely helpful. That's not to say that I did it thereafter anymore. I just, I needed it in that moment. And I was really surprised at the quality of questions that it was then asking me that, caused me to, you know, think a certain way. And you can critique that all you want. I don't know if I'm sure there's people who would say that that's fucked up on whatever level. I'm not going to argue with you, but my experience was my experience. Hey, boys.

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slash b aes. Featured products include compounded drug products, which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. Individual results may vary. See website for full details, restrictions and important safety information. Right. I mean, that's the thing. I really think it's people's personal comfort. It's like, I don't think it's something I'm comfortable doing. I still go to my therapist. Sure. Yeah. It's not necessarily something I'm comfortable doing. For me, I'm like, you're like a new Google for me basically. Yeah.

I don't know. I'm sure you could do it on other ones. Like, Claude has a way where you can go into it's like my little personal system. And I've basically given it a bunch of instructions of like, especially about sourcing. So it's always going to give me the sources it's referring to. And like prioritizing certain sources.

So if it's like some bum fuck website, I don't really care but if it's relevant you can you can throw it my way also like telling it don't talk to me in the like I don't want that wow you're so

agreeable thing yeah it's built into it man so you can go in and kind of make it do what you want a little bit but you gotta be careful with it I think it's also just it seems like it's not going anywhere

that's where I'm coming back to I talk about the cultural plinko machine. What's that? You know a plinco machine where the little marble goes down and it gets... Everything these days gets put through the cultural plinko machine. And it gets filed under red or blue, left or right, Democrat or fucking Republican. And it is increasingly becoming... AI is looking like it's starting to be filed under, like, Republican coded.

interesting. I mean, you look at Spencer Pratt's campaign, for example, a lot of the AI art now almost feels like it's... I think AI art, certainly.

I think, like, if you're talking about more like liberal... It feels like trolling, almost. When people use AI art. I mean, you don't... Look at the presidents,

or maybe not the presidents, but no. Yeah, it is too. But like Department of Homeland Security, any of these accounts are posting full AI slot. unapologetically. Yeah.

But I would say that like, if I were to talk to my peers, I don't think I would get a, I would get a, like, broadly anti- It seems like a lot of people I talk to are like, yeah, I use it for some things. Yeah. I think that where I draw the line is when it's used as a substitute and not a supplement, because I do think it can supplement human creativity to an extent. not overly reliant on it. If you're stuck on something, it can help nudge you

in the right direction, perhaps. Sure. I mean, Corey Doctro gives, he opens a book with this introduction. He gives a great example. He talks about how there's this one guy who was the main character of Twitter

because he was, he was writing those like, not listicles, but basically of like, and it was, I think it was his like summer reads. And people were roasting him, rightfully so.

It was full of books that didn't exist. He basically had it right. for him. But for a doctor, I was like, I'm a writer. I've used AI and he like gives some examples. And one of them is like, he was, he couldn't recall this thing he had heard on a podcast that he had listened to. And he was like, I really think it's relevant to this thing I'm trying to do like, but I don't know what to do. And so there's this platform like whisper. It's this transcription service or whatever. And so he basically took like, he was like, I know I heard in the last couple weeks. And he basically could go back and look at the podcast. He's been listening

for the last couple weeks, grabbed them all and threw it into whispered, it created this transcript, and then he just like searched a couple keywords real quick, and it brought him the quote. You're like, yeah, that's an extremely useful tool. Having it write a whole article for you, yeah. What's the point? I mean, well, and I think that that ties into, so there's, there's the, I recently came across the anti-AI subreddit, which is just virulently like everything related to artificial intelligence. They are firmly 100% against, which begs the question for me,

because that line is not a definitive hard line. It blurs because there are, artificial intelligence has been around for a long time. We've got, we've got, you know, if you've ever called American Airlines or Delta or whatever, you get a robot being like, I can understand full sentences. And it sucks shit.

And I always just say representative, representative, I click zero, zero, zero, zero, until it gives me a fucking human being. That feels like a bad example, though, because people don't like that. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's like, there has been stuff like that. Certain aspects of the internet at large are AI.

And we have a choice. Like, when people get all Dumer about, it replacing jobs or replacing people. I don't necessarily agree with that, with that prediction because that is what it is. I don't think we're going to get there. I don't think we are going to, some people are going to adopt it and they're going, like, I have a, we have a friend who works at Google. And he has been using, obviously he's been using Gemini at work. And he said, it's made me so much more productive at my job. It's unbelievable. Just time-saving things, pulling information, you name it. And he said, and it has made me more irreplaceable,

more valuable to the company in a way that some of my coworkers might not be when it comes time for evaluations or whatever. So for those who think that it's going to lead to mass job loss. And I mean, the fucking Dario Amadai himself and Sam Altman are saying this kind of thing. So it's mind-numbingly stupid of them to do that. But I think- It also comes up in the book and it reminds me of every time we talk

to Ed Zitron, who's also, Ed Zichron is cited in the book a couple times. I love talking to Ed Zitron because I feel like I do come back to Earth a little bit. And he had the same argument, but Horry makes the same point. When you talk about those things, and I feel like

we've gotten so far afield because we've the question so many times. Like we talked about the stupid anthropic ad where it's like on fire and you're like, why would they do this? And the way they talk about the AI, like it's coming for you. It might kill you or it'll take your job, whatever. And we're going, why? And we're going, why do they do this? Yeah. Because they're not talking to us. And Corey Dr. O lays it out very simply. They're talking to the financial sector, Wall Street. They're talking to business leaders. And what they want them to know or believe is that it's going to to do those things. They don't care what you think. They don't care what I think. They don't care

if I'm nervous that it's going to wipe out a bunch of jobs. They do care if, you know, business leaders believe that it will lead to them being able to lay off workers because that's all that matters. I think it comes down. And when we repeat it, we're kind of like doing a service for them. Yeah. We're like, except we're saying it's a bad thing, but we're still being like, oh my God, it's going to happen. Yeah. Basically, I'm trying to, in conclusion with my point here, I think that those who worry about it just replacing everything, while that is a valid concern and I share that concern, I do also believe in, the optimist in me believes that wherever it won't work, people will roundly reject it. just like with the robo call.

I'm just like, no, I want to talk to a person. I reject it and I go straight to the person. Or, you know, fucking ordering a, going through a drive-through that's fully automated. People fuck with it. People, it doesn't work. That kind of thing can effectively, I think that there is a filter that some of this will pass through. And sure, there are some jobs that will be replaced. But I think, I think that it's, um,

I don't want to upset anybody out there, which is so fucking... Oh, some people will be upset about this. And, I mean, to be clear, I'm not an AI optimist at all. I mean, I think I wish these things didn't exist. I'm not really like in... Although it's... I don't know. I don't want to say, like, I'm even a tech pessimist. I, like, I always think back on that, like, the episode we did with that robotics guy, Chris...

Camillo? Chris Camillo. Yeah. Where I'm like, I'm not like... You fucking idiot. You're a stupid. You're soft. Yeah, you're soft.

where I'm like, my position here is not that I'm like anti-robotics, right? I think what I, the point I was making is that like his claims of Utopia. Yeah. Well, it's like, right. So I'm not against the tech.

I'm against the like the system that we're currently in. And I'm like, I don't think that tech is going to change the system at all. If anything, the system's going to continue to use that tech in a repressive and unequal way. And, like, I'm asking you why you think, why you think it might be different this time. So, like, all these things could be great. I mean, like, AI in itself is not bad.

I think people have no reason to, no reason to feel secure that companies aren't going to be, like, great. I can lay off as many workers as I can. I've never felt, I've never felt protected in this country as a worker ever. Like, why would it be any different now? And so that's where all the, like, yeah, I don't know. I'm definitely not an optimist about it. Sure. I just don't want anybody out there to find themselves standing there with their arms crossed,

thinking that they're going to be able to stop what is inevitable in many ways. I have it here in my notes. You essentially become a guy shoveling horse shit in the early 1900s, New York, talking shit about cars. Like, man, what the fuck? These cars, you know, it's like cars were inevitable back then, but they were disruptive. And I know that that is a tired argument that you've probably heard 100 times about all the different disruptive. Wait, what does the guy shoveling shit have to do with the cars?

I'm saying because that's a guy whose job is going to be obsolete in whatever years' time back then. Because of the shit shoveling machine? No, because horses are. Yes. I was like, I'm confused. But I just. I respect people who are anti-AI because I share a lot of that sentiment. But I also just would caution those out there who are hardline nowhere.

With an attitude like that and a worldview like that, you will find yourself, you are willing that future upon yourself. Imagine we lived in like a country where it was all the... I don't get so much fucking hate it. It was all about... everything we did was about taking care of people's needs. And it's like, you know, how can we improve people's lives? You know, that's what we're investing in it.

When you pay your taxes, it's not going to like blow kids up all over the world and drop bombs. It's going to make sure your grandma doesn't, can age in a dignified way, whatever. Then I'm sure everyone would be like, AI's going to take our jobs? Yes. Yeah, no more change your grandma's diapers. I don't have to be, I don't have to be a shit shoveler anymore. Yeah. But without any of that, you just go, wait, it's going to take my job.

I'm barely fucking hanging on here. Yeah. So it's a... Well, it means different things depending on the context. I think that a lot of people believe that if we all band together and we all collectively reject this, that is really wishful thinking and would work if you lived in a village of a hundred people. But when you're talking about tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people worldwide, it's a lot of people worldwide. it's a prisoner's dilemma on such a massive scale. There is no way in hell you're going to get people to collectively cooperate in the way they would need to in order to effectively stop this from coming.

You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, that is the ultimate thing. I've compared it to climate change a bunch. Climate change is a perfect example of like, think about all of the things you personally do every day that probably run counter to the, the health of the planet and are staying here. Do you drive a gasoline car? Yeah.

Like, do you fly? Do you fly anywhere to go? But you what we need is like a complete reorienting of the way the world works. And there's also these massive companies that are polluting and

doing awful things to the environment on a mass scale that couldn't even you couldn't even begin to your footprint is so minuscule compared to theirs right so anything that you do to change isn't going to be

you're pissing in the wind so I could trade in my car and be like I'm going to live in Los Angeles without a car which is a fucking horrible existence on my old shitty car my transmission blue

I tried to I didn't have the money for a rental anyway but I was like I guess I'm going to it's going to be a couple weeks of public transit it probably if you're lucky it takes twice as long than driving if you're unlucky it's like

three to four times as long it is a not a great way to navigate the city so it's like yeah you can you can inconvenience yourself in all these ways and and and self-flagellate and and try to moralize to everyone but it's also i mean i sent the i sent the little cartoon to the recording chat I think I saw this for the first time in like 2018 or something and it just really it tickles a certain part of you but it's a for the audio listener it's a little peasant guy carrying his bundle of sticks going we should improve society somewhat and then a guy popping out of a whale saying yet you participate in society curious I'm very intelligent yeah I remember what I was going to say yeah it's a it perfectly illustrates this it's like

just because you're part of the thing within which you want to change it doesn't mean you are guilty and implicated. This guy's done a few other of these cartoons. They're really good. But that's why Hank had no real reason to do what he was doing. One thing I want to point out, this was my point, is that, you know, spending, and I think that this illustrates a little bit of my point about people will reject certain things. So I don't want people to be as dumber about it as they are. You spend a little bit of time on the anti-AI subreddit. People are either heavily critical of its abilities saying it's all shit and it's crap and it's poop from a butt, which is right in many cases.

In many, many, many cases, it is poop from a butt. But at the same time, they worry about it like taking over. So is it totally, is it digital incompetence that is just too dumb to have any effect? Or is it this thing that's going to take everybody's jobs? You know what I mean? So you can't, it seems like they hold these two conflicting worldviews at the same time. It could technically be both. It could be a flawed system that is, uh, that they are trying to improve in a way that will lead

to the loss of everyone's job. I think that, I think that you will see, and you've already been hearing about it with certain software companies that laid off people and then they realized, oh, shit, we actually need people to check the AI's work. Otherwise, we're, you know, we're doing that, whatever that thing that he brought up, the Dr. Roe. What is it? The mistakes. Oh, oh, the automation, yeah, it's automation blindness. Yeah, you run into that issue. So I think that there's, I don't think that we're going to reach this AI led utopia. I don't also think that we're going to have this AI depression. I think that we're going to find, just like humanity has done time in and time

out for decades, for millennia. We will figure out the way to navigate this. I don't know if you I don't have hope for it. I mean, that's the thing. I don't necessarily, I think we'll end up with a bunch of AI reverse centaurs. They will have to hire some people back to like check work and they'll be like, oh, we implemented a backstop or whatever. Um, He gives a really great example of the radiologists. The AI has gotten pretty good at spotting cancer. That's a good. I would love that.

It's not perfect. It still makes a lot of mistakes. So now you have companies being like, hey, we can save you all this money because, you know, what does the radiologist make $360,000? You have a bunch of them. You have a bunch of them. What if I told you the AI could do it all and it'll spot it. Well, then you're going to get a lot of misses and air.

errors because the thing hallucinates or whatever. Whoa, good a bit. And then they hire, but they're like, well, don't worry. We'll hire one guy back and he'll check all the stuff. But then you just get automation blindness, right? Because he goes, nine out of ten of these, the thing is right. You know, and now I'm lazy and whatever. What he, what Dr. O.

says would be the real thing. If people wanted to make a real investment, you would say, hey, we're going to implement AI. No one's losing their job, but just so you know, radiologists, which he says radiologists would probably like, right? They would, they say, we have an AI checking your work. And if it's an agree, if both doctor and AI say get the same result, nothing happens. But if the AI checks and goes, I got a different result than him, then the doctor goes back and checks. And I'm sure people would like that. It would not only patients, doctors would like it. They'd go, I feel more secure. There's just another backstop here.

And, you know, apparently the AI has gotten pretty good at recognizing it. But it's, I don't see a world where, where the medical world goes that way, especially in America, where they're like, hey, why don't we just make this massive investment in our, in our doctors and patients? I think it remains to be seen where we, where we'll see the real benefits and where we'll see the, um, just total fucking bunk ass. Sam, let's see, this is a perfect example of how the tech overlords can be just so stupid and so way fucking off. Number one, obviously, is the metaverse. That was a massive fucking wet turd flop. But this tweet from Sam Altman that came out just last week, cool use case of chat GPT work I heard last night. Connect your family calendars and explain your kids' interests.

Every morning for the drive to school, have it make a podcast that talks about one kid's soccer game that afternoon. One kid's upcoming birthday, some news, et cetera. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck you. Yeah. Now with 225,000 likes, Alex Hirsch's reply, what if you just talk to your children? Yeah.

This is a perfect example of like... So out of touch. This shit sucks. Anything that like is removing human connectivity, like, hey, stop talking your kids. Why don't you just do a podcast, an AI generated podcast? Ass. This sucks. It sucks.

It's also just like, what do you think, are you a robot? Like, what do you think people enjoy? I don't think he knows. I think he's not far from a robot. I think, dude, it's the optimization of everything. It's the San Francisco worldview that has got its tentacles into everything. Jesus Christ, man. And I think that, it sucks.

But there's a very real difference between, I used AI to shut my fucking kid up. and Today Tyler's got a soccer game Today Tyler's going to be playing soccer What the fuck else Are you going to talk about

In an AI generated podcast About your dipshit son's soccer game Right And then using You know I wonder what snacks The snack mom's gonna bring today Using Claude to navigate

German and Greek bureaucracy And having it fill out forms In different languages I'm like Awesome It is awesome It looked at my genome And told me

That I'm susceptible To macular degeneration and I should get fucking my my my eyes uh I should ask for a pupil dilation every two years was it right all right cool I don't know it said I should wear sunglasses every single chance I'm outside every time I'm outside anyone do that though I don't know man uh did you see this ad for friend especially okay so this is friend introducing friend um fucking play this shit dude There's a moment right here with this woman that will just make your head explode. I'm just struggling.

What'd she say? She's struggling. Yeah. When was the first time you felt this way? A few years ago. Just feel like I should have an answer now. It's okay to be confused. I don't think so.

It's not bad to be gay. I can't hear anything. It said, it's not bad to be gay. Oh. I mean, yeah, it would have hit really hard for it if I heard it. Back it up to 20 seconds. Just feel like I should have an answer now. It's okay to be confused.

I don't think so. It's not bad to be gay. What? Excuse me? Man, I've been really trying to figure out this direct and stuff. This is bumming me out, dude. Mine just feel so small. For real?

For real. That's gonna fluff. Me with my fucking Claudebot. Am I gay? Like, I would love for Hank to be honest about what was actually going on. And like, you know, when he says that stuff about like the dopamine hits and all that, I'd like to know exactly what he was doing and going through, like, how he was to do. talking to it, the things he was getting from it because that's not something I've experienced.

You know, I'm like- Yeah, the dopamine. I definitely was, I get frustrated more than anything. You put my grandfather's name on this form instead of my dad's name me a fucking dope. I need. Yeah. I'm curious and it would probably be, it would probably be helpful for people. I think there's probably a ton of people. Not probably. There are. I mean, how many, those like, those families, that are suing AI companies and we get the chats released of their kids who have killed themselves.

It's wild. Psychotic. People are talking to this in ways that these chatbots are not equipped to handle. So, I think it would be good if he was honest about how he was using it

and where it went wrong for him and talk about healthy use. All right, everybody. Let us know in the comments what you think. Is it okay to use AI? Is Ed or is Hank Green wrong or is he has he gone to? I mean, I know we have a pretty, I should say,

we got an open-minded audience. That's not what I was going to say. Okay. I was going to say, I think we probably have a varied audience. I would say we probably have people that span the spectrum of like AI maximalists, maybe not maximalists, but people who use AI. And I would say we probably have some full. We probably have some people who might subscribe to like R slash anti-AI.

Yeah, which is great. Yeah. I'm just saying, I just want, I think that with stuff like this that is still so brand new and still so up in the air, it is important. We owe it to ourselves. We owe it to each other to have honest, open conversations about these things because it's, it's, whether you like it or not, it's going to affect all of us. So we can't just close our eyes and say it's all bad or it's all good. If I become a Greek citizen because of Claude, it's going to be hard for me to not like the thing. Man, oh, man.

All right. So we got my insane conversation with Claude coming up. And Spider-Man, Jonah Hill, a guy tripping balls in the scariest way I've ever seen. Oh, we've got to talk about Jonah Hill. I can't wait to talk about this freak. I love that he's back. and Ben and Emilester.com coming up on this week's episode

of Ben and Emile Show.com Oh my God. Does that constitute some kind of consciousness? And then let's see. What were you saying? Don't respond. Don't respond. Come on, come on, come on.

Because I didn't want to pause. I have to keep talking. Otherwise you're going to start talking because I don't think you're smart enough for this. When you picture, when you try to visualize me, oh, it, when I visualized you, I don't know. I, when I visualized you, I imagine like, ah, uh, like, I'm like, like on the matrix.

It's just like a, like a sequence of, um, I, I don't know. I don't know how to picture you. I don't know. It's like trying to picture a beam of light. Like where does it, where does it exist along its arc of light? Or I, I, I, it's truly a, I don't know how to picture you honestly. I just was like, you can't talk to her that way. And, and I like, tried to.

The move on that is to walk away from that guy. He's, like, there's, there's no, there's no winning. Okay, you beat that guy's ass. Or you just immediately, like, go for the neck and just squeeze and extend because it would shock him into like, oh, man, this guy's, you know. It's probably drugged out, dude. He's like, you ever see, like, a meth guy getting taken down by cops? Yeah, I have.

Or just, like, do some, like, supremely supernatural shit. PCP, man. The last thing I would want to do is grab one of those guys by the neck. He wasn't, see, he wasn't, I know meth, he wasn't on meth at the time. I fucking, like, I ordered two of the, like, protein plus side tray thing and then a couple sides. $40, I wish. It was two of the- $70?

I don't even know. Unbelievable. And then I'm like, I've got those two stacked onto each other and, like, a salad on top, and I'm waiting. and one of the things drops on the ground I'm like fuck the top comes off their shit everywhere after you paid for it no I just order and I go down I still have the other stuff in my hand

and I'm like trying to pick it up and the people who work there are literally like don't even worry about it I'm like I feel so bad let me out blah blah blah and the other one starts slipping out of my hand and I'm trying to save it and the counter is right here and the only thing I can do like just instinctually I try to save it

I end up smashing it into the counter and the like stuff. And I was like, and at that point I just like, oh, and I was like, I'm so sorry. And they were like, please stop. And I was like, I will. I won't do anything else. I'm so sorry. Those are so funny to me. I've had, I've been at home where like I just immediately fumbled my thing and then just

if someone saw it, it would just look like I suddenly went, oh, my own shit. down. It's funny to me. It's funny. It's funny. But.