The Big Picture - ‘Jurassic World Rebirth’ Does Not Find a Way. Plus: Nolan’s ‘The Odyssey’ Is Coming!

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Sean and Amanda are joined by Chris Ryan to lead a team of skilled operatives to the most dangerous place on earth, a ‘Jurassic Park’ sequel. Before diving in, they react to the first trailer for Christopher Nolan’s ‘The Odyssey,’ which played before their screening (1:23). Then, they unpack their complicated and (at times) contentious feelings on the newest installment of the dinosaur action franchise, Gareth Evans’s ‘Jurassic World Rebirth,’ starring Scarlett Johansson and Mahershala Ali (9:45). Later, Sean is joined by Eva Victor to discuss their critically acclaimed first feature film, ‘Sorry, Baby.’ They talk about the interesting process of pitching a movie to financiers, the difficulties that come with doing press for a deeply personal film, and what they envision for their career going forward (59:02). Hosts: Sean Fennessey and Amanda Dobbins Guests: Eva Victor and Chris Ryan Producer: Jack Sanders THIS EPISODE IS SPONSORED BY THE STARBUCKS COFFEE COMPANY. ORDER NOW | STARBUCKS.COM/MENU Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of the big picture is presented by Starbucks. The unofficial drink of summer is here and it's just as good as I remembered. Starbucks summer berry refresher is everything you'd want from a summer beverage, a blend of berry notes shaken with ice and poured over a layer of new raspberry flavored pearls. And personally, my favorite refresher is the summer berry lemonade. It just tastes like summer in a cup and adds a whole other level of fresh flavors. We are on the brink of a major heat wave here in a cup and adds a whole other level of fresh flavors. We are on the brink of a major heat wave here in Los Angeles and nothing would be more refreshing than a Starbucks summer berry lemonade refresher.

Available for a limited time only, your summer berry refresher is ready at Starbucks. I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is the big picture conversation show about dinosaurs. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by not a dinosaur, Ava Victor, first time writer director whose Sundance Prize winning film, Sorry Baby is one of the most exciting debuts of the year. Ava is straight up one of my favorite guests in the history of this podcast. Smart, funny, special thinker. Hope you'll stick around for our conversation.

Their movie is nothing like the movie we're gonna talk about today, which is Jurassic World Rebirth. But before we get to that movie, see ours here. Hey, man, what kind of prison can hold a man like me? We have just returned from an 8 a.m. screening of Jurassic World Rebirth, and we went to that screening for two reasons. The first reason is not invited to a screening by the studio.

I don't know why. What the hell, Universal? I guess they don't want us to see Jurassic World, but it worked out well because this gave us an opportunity to see on the big screen the trailer for Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey, the teaser trailer. So, Amanda, I'll start with you. What did you think of that teaser trailer? It did leak yesterday.

It did. I did not watch it. I was saving it for my Dolby experience. Did you read Deadline's description of the trailer? No, of course not. No, I'm with you on this. You went and clean. I went and clean, yeah.

I was also like, I am getting up. I got up at my normal time actually, but I am abdicating all childcare responsibility this morning so I can go see it on the biggest screen possible as Christopher Nolan intended. That's right. Absolutely. So I saw it.

I would say, so the screening started at eight. I wanted to say that it aired at like 834-ish. Yes. Well, it did something very interesting. And we were very nervous because I got there right at the dot, 8 o'clock, because I am known historically to arrive late to miss trailers and then also miss parts of the movie. But I got there on time. We watched a shitload of trailers. Lots of trailers.

Lots of trailers. Lots of trailers. And you know, and you at one point were like, yep, I think this is the one. And then I think it was the trailer for Edgar Wright's Running Man. Yes. Shout out Glenn Powell, looked good to me. And they kept going.

And then there was like the Dolby, you know, part two of the Dolby, Hey, you're in Dolby. And then there was the Nicole Kidman speech. And Sean and I... We were getting nervous. Heartbreak feels good in a place like this. Yeah. Did we show up here? Also, when did they... During the Heartbreak feels good in a place like this,

when did they edit in A Star is Born? I think it's been there. I know that they've been changing the references. I know that. And why are you looking at me like that? I'm just waiting to get to the Odyssey. Okay. Well, so was I. Also, you know, sort of on theme.

Uh-huh. I don't know if you know that's what the Odyssey is about. And so... I haven't actually read it. Yeah. Well, they dropped the lights. They dropped the lights and we were really nervous. And then the green screen hit.

And we were extremely relieved. Yes. So... Looks good. It looks really good. That shot of them... There's a lot of buildup for it. Looks good. Oh, sorry. Excuse me. The horses and the horses on the beach and the Trojan horse, you know, it's very large film that he uses and I see why.

IMAX cameras, 65 millimeter. Huge moment for Bernthal. Think that was Christian Bale doing the VO in the beginning? It's John Leguizamo. Is it? There are two voices that we hear. The first is, I'm almost certain, John Leguizamo. Okay.

Giving this sort of brief narration about... We have the transcript here, so Chris, read it. Darkness, Zeus's law smashed to pieces. A kingdom without a king since my master died. Okay. Now, there's a second voice that we hear that may be Robert Pattinson. Okay. Unclear.

Before we cut to Tom Holland's teary-eyed face. He's playing Telemachus in this film. Odysseus' son. And who is he talking to? JB. But one John Bernthal. Yeah, Wayne. And he talking to? JB. But one John Bernthal. Yeah, Wayne. And he honestly is waning.

He is in an epic tragedy of Wayne. You know what I got from this moment a little bit? A little last temptation of Christ. Yeah. Even Tom Holland's doing American accent, Bernthal's just doing Bernthal in a beautiful, moving way. But I'm surprised to see, you know, you take it out of its classical, western roots of like, okay, so they're gonna do English accents

or something like that, but I guess they've all agreed nondescript American accents for this. Okay, just to align with Damon? I guess. So Damon doesn't have to do the accent work? I assume that that was why they made that decision, because we have heard him do accents before. Not his strength.

Unless it's Boston. Historically, Boston, he's wonderful. Not as much an accent, more like an inner self coming out. He was good. His accent in Stillwater was good. Sure, yeah. You are the world's number one Stillwater defender. Because he goes to the Marseilles stadium and it's sick. And they do go swimming, it looks beautiful.

And you love Camille Cotin, right? That's one of your gals. We don't see Matt Damon speak in this movie. We see him from behind as he prepares to sort of march to battle. The production design, the staging is classical, you know. And we see him floating. We do see him floating on a raft of wood in the deep sea, awaiting his fate. I thought we were gonna get maybe like a minute of, is it Charybdis? you know, the sea creature?

Oh, the six headed monster. Yeah, yeah. But we don't get any of that. I think that's, yeah. I don't know which one is Skillin, which one is Charybdis. You know what I was thinking about the other day when you were just yelling about how he is honoring UNESCO World Sites?

He is honoring them. And that is just still one of the funniest things that happened on a podcast. That should be like like, the final tagline of this teaser. I just want to tell the listeners, it's interesting that Sean's commenting on this at all, because he got up and turned his back on the screen in solidarity with James Cameron, who was called Christopher Nolan, a moral coward,

for not showing the bombing of Hiroshima in Aachenheimer. Oh boy. And I thought that was really cool of you, man. It's not often that people really stand on business in this industry. You did it. Big Jim versus Chris is a showdown for the ages, I must say. It's great. Two titans go toe to toe.

And that would be the end of this pot. They've been angling for it in their own way. You know, they each want to carry the mantle of film singer. He was like, that's a pretty good movie, but he's a pussy. I mean, Big Jim feels Chris on his heels. That's what's going on, you know? He's obviously going for his spot right now, and Big Jim's got a movie coming out in six months,

so he's got to start making waves again. Didn't agree with his take. Thought he was very wrong-headed, to be honest with you, but it's his right to have it. Also, James Cameron being like, now I must correct the, like, cinematic record by showing this for three hours. I'm not sure if that's what I want from Big Jim.

Right. And that's what you said after you saw 12 Years a Slave. You said, I need to correct the cinematic record and respond to this film, which I thought was brave. I'm excited about this movie, obviously. It comes out one year from today, or one year from this month. It just feels like such an event.

Yeah, totally. Just the day, Universal had a bunch of screeners, trailers before the Jurassic World, One year from today, or one year from this month. It just feels like such an event. Yeah, totally. Universal had a bunch of screeners, trailers before the Jurassic World, and they had Wicked, they had a bunch of stuff, but it's just like, hang on, we'll be there for you in a year. Yes, no one creates this sense of anticipation

quite like Nolan too. At this point in time, yeah. And so he's been doing this, this particular strategy. It is pretty amazing that he is also creating this level of anticipation for an adaptation of Homer's Odyssey, which they are like, it's, it's, it's not your helicopter movie, but the Odyssey. It is. There wasn't not helicopters. That's true. He has not denied the existence of helicopters in this world. It did look like they were going for an ancient Greek feel, you know? Like I do, I, Bernthal and Tom Holland

were wearing like toga-esque qualities, draping, you know, as opposed to the more tailored clothes that you and I wear today. You think they should have been dressed like they were in Inception? Well, no, I'm just saying. Like I'm reading the text. That's what we do here on the big picture.

It does seem, you know, like they I'm reading the text. That's what we do here on the big picture. It does seem, you know, like they're going for pre-electricity. I believe that will be the case. I'll be dropping an hour and a half long breakdown of the teaser where I freeze frames and say, this could be a shadow of a chopper blade. This also could be a shadow of a chopper blade. Do you think we'll see in the moments immediately after Odysseus is floating on the water,

Roy Scheider's revived corpse flying in on a helicopter to save him and take him away? Don't tease me with a good time. Well, we're all very excited about that. Let's... Shall we talk now about... There have been a couple of other trailers. I'll just say, watch the sentimental value trailer, and I was like, I'm ready to be moved deeply. No, I didn't watch it.

I just responded to the email, when can I see this? So, I don't need a trailer. I just want to go. November 7th is the same day that Sentimental Value is coming out, as is The Running Man. You mentioned that briefly. Same thing we saw in April at CinemaCon. The action looks incredible.

I hope that movie is a lot of fun. We shall see. Get to Toronto's main venues like Budweiser Stage and the new Rogers Stadium with Go Transit. fun. The action looks incredible. I hope that movie is a lot of fun. We shall see. Get to Toronto's main venues like Budweiser Stage and the new Rogers Stadium with Go Transit. Thanks to Go Transit's special online e-ticket fairs, a $10 one-day weekend pass offers unlimited travel on any weekend day or holiday, anywhere along the Go network. And the weekday group passes offer the same weekday travel flexibility across the network, starting at $30 for two people and up to $60 for a group of five.

Buy your online Go Pass ahead of the show at Gotransit.com slash tickets. Let's talk about your Ask World rebirth. So we just walked out of the movie. No prep. No discussion. No planning. You are a sequencing engineer at this screening. There were some real heads at this screening. I would say it was half full at 8 a.m. We met some lovely people. Yes, we did. Shout out Alyssa. Alyssa, a night shift nurse who was showing up

because this is the only time she could see it. I ran into a guy who was like, I got an 11 a.m. Zoom. This was the only time I could see this movie today. So appreciate them. I wish I didn't spend my morning this way, but we'll talk about that. This movie is the seventh film in the Jurassic series. It's the fourth film in the non-Spielberg

era of this series, although he is still a producer on all the Jurassic movies. And Andren is still the first thing, yeah. Yeah. It is the return of David Kep, the screenwriter who wrote the first two Jurassic movies. It is directed by Gareth Edwards, a filmmaker who I think at least Chris and I, I don't know if I know your opinion about him, have a lot of admiration for, but also a lot of notes for, that will continue apace in this podcast. Tony Gilroy did as well. Tony Gilroy, who of course worked as well on Rogue One, a film that Gareth Edwards

started, this movie has a lot of stars in it. Scarlett Johansson, Mahershala Ali, Jonathan Bailey, Rupert Friend. Amanda, what did you think of Jurassic World Rebirth? I think you guys both need to learn how to have fun again. What's wrong with me? Well, you were just a little muted, you know, during the... You weren't pumping your fist at any point,

so I was a little nervous, and I know you're not wearing your lanyard. And you tried to leave it behind in the theater. What will you do with that long term? You think you'll put that in your will? No, Nas is really into lanyards right now. My mom went to... But he's not into dinosaurs yet. No, he is apparently.

I learned the other day that he knows what a Tyrannosaurus Rex is. I just, like, I didn't know that. Now it's... Then now he's ready. Like, have you had to do one of these... He's ready for the gift I have for him. Have you had to do one of those dinosaur eggs with him? I have, yes. Yeah, have you seen this?

I guess we've done them, yes. It's like the bath bomb, but it's a dinosaur egg, and then a tiny plastic dinosaur comes out. Yeah. You can chip it out, yeah. Yeah, yeah, we're big into that. But yeah, he also likes lanyards. He wears my CinemaCon lanyard around a lot. Those are really safe for a three-year-old.

And also, my mom's lanyard from the Masters that she gave him. So anyway, I had fun, you know? It is like totally a recreation of the first Jurassic Park, like scene for scene. But listen, when people who have maybe lost their connection to wonder find themselves in a field looking at herbivore giant dinosaurs and the theme song is playing, like, I am still moved by that.

I don't care. And I think that you should open your heart and learn to have fun. Um, Chris, what'd you think of Jurassic World? There's two movies in this movie. Yeah. I kind of enjoyed both of those two movies until the two movies became united. Okay.

And that was when the movie kind of ran a little bit out of gas. I think it looks awesome. Incredible. Shot on film. Shot by Ridley Scott's frequent collaborator, John Matheson. I turned to you about 30 minutes in and I was like... You did. You said, this is shot on film. This looks... It looks beautiful. It really does." And also, like, shot in real places, they closed down the Brooklyn Bridge Park in New York

for just like a random scene with a brontosaurus. By the way, the brontosaurus is kept in like the Cobble Hill keeping pen, which like, Cobble Hill, that's real estate-wise. Did you wind up getting that latte? No, no, no. Of course I did. I'm sorry, I came to work. I love it. You know?

I thought this was two movies. There's one movie where my favorite use of the Jurassic Park moving theme song ever, you know, like the, the, not glorious, but the sort of, this is the emo part. While Scarlett Johansson describes a former colleague dying in a car bomb in Yemen. Because she is a mercenary. She's a lioness, I guess. It literally turned into lioness for five minutes. Yeah, and I was like, you have my attention. That is not the essence of this movie at all.

Anyway, there's like a whole... One plot, one movie is searching... There's a basically... Searching for a tree. ...of trying to get dinosaur DNA to cure heart disease run by big pharma. Then 40 minutes into the movie, we just meet a family that is inexplicably boating from Barbados to Cape Town, South Africa, which they have done many times. Even though a lot of that involves sailing through a DMZ dinosaur militarized zone.

Right. And could you just remind us geopolitically and I guess like topographically, geographically, like what belongs to the humans and what belongs to the dinosaurs when we're starting this podcast? I'm really glad you said this. Thank you so much. This is about accountability. The last time we did one of our, you know, kind of now patented deep dives into the lore and narratives of these films, Sean and I went across the Prattverse and we talked about the Jurassic World,

Jurassic World, uh, Fallen Kingdom, and Jurassic World Dominion, right? And I realized I'd never seen Dominion. So I watched the extended cut last night. Did you? Yeah, and there's like an extensive amount of stuff that I just did not know. That was the most recent film.

In fact, we did an episode about it on the show, but it was Brian Curtis and I who talked about it. I don't know where either of you were, candidly. I think I had maybe had a child recently. You did, yeah. You had a boy. Anyway, so what's up? What's going on? So I think I had when I had last checked in, I thought they were like, these guys get to

keep Costa Rica and that's it. There's been a lot of expansion and contraction on the part of the dinosaurs into the real world since I checked in. So Dominion, Dominion, right? Dominion is the final. Really gets into them being, you know, out in the world, terrorizing people at drive-ins, et cetera. How do they get off?

Well, I guess Costa Rica is attached to other parts of the land. Well, they get off the island and fall in Kingdom, the previous film. That's the J. Bayona film. They basically, like, bring them over to raffle them off to wealthy people. There's, like, an auctioneering finale. James Cromwell and Ralph Spall. Yeah, so corporations. Yes.

Corporations consistently the villains of this movie. The... Not against that. Sure, it's a good idea. It was a good idea 35 years ago when Michael Crichton had it. Um, I think that this movie is coming very quickly on the heels of Dominion, which I think was roundly disliked and made a lot of money, but was not necessarily perceived as a success.

Did you see the extended cut though? I did not. Was it great? So in the end, they're put in zoos and they can have the equator. They are still around though. There's still dinosaurs by train tracks in in Brooklyn like hanging out at drive-ins But they are largely on the equatorial band where the oxygen is rich right and the vegetation is clean. Okay That was the explanation there are some remaining dinosaurs on the mainland

But those are it seems like are largely herbivores including Cobble Hill Yes, they're just taking up a tremendous amount of expensive real estate. I think they said there's I think they said there's an Allosaurus that we see, or a Brontosaurus that we see very briefly. Oh, you're a NIMBY, huh? Or dinosaur. Yeah. Well, I just, I mean, I guess if I had to think about it. Did you vote Cuomo?

Yes. But I just, I'm- What's Cuomo's take on dinosaurs? Get them out? I'm sort of like, just the dinosaur alone would take up at this point in Cobble Hill, like- Oh, yeah. 50 to 70 million dollars? Just like, it's mass.

In terms of real estate. Yeah, real estate. So, once again, it's only a corporation that this evil could afford. Do you feel like Michelle Williams was like, God damn it, I was gonna build there. She's Boreham Hill. Yeah, sorry. In this film, Rupert Friend plays, I guess,

one of the head of this mission to retrieve this dinosaur DNA. You work for InGen, I think. InGen, yes. Right? Well, it's a little unclear. Well, whatever the thing got, yeah. It feels like a spin-off company from InGen, which is the original company.

The film actually opens with a flashback, 17 years in the past, where we see this research facility that is mutating and mixing, a kind of island of Dr. Moreau for dinosaurs that InGen has been working on, to get people more excited about their dinosaur parks, which consistently turn into, like, nightmare zones of murdered tourists.

And they're... If you've ever seen Jurassic World, like, how could there ever be another park? Sure, I know, but you saying this, like, you, during the Wicked trailer, turned to me and gave, like, a quite beautiful and thoughtful recap of the profound artistic experience you had recently at Universal Studios, seeing a Glinda performance.

Like, you actually like theme parks. And you understand how when, like, carried out correctly, they can communicate with people. This theme park is a murder house. This is a death of Go To Universal if you died every time. This is not... Pterodactyls are picking people up in the middle of the theme park and dragging them away to their death.

Yeah. Well, yeah, good. They'll keep opening the park. They opened it once and then they opened it again. But then InGen is like, we gotta make more dinosaurs that are even crazier and more dangerous. They're more interested in the pharmacological and military permutations of dinosaur DNA than they are in,

like, let's have more dinosaurs. Well, that's the case, at at least for the Rupert Frank character in this movie. So he recruits Scarlett Johansson, a mercenary who's famed for her work in retrieval. And she makes contact with a man named Duncan. Kincaid. Kincaid, who is a shipboat captain and also a mercenary.

I think Duncan Kincaid is the name of a character in one of my favorite, yeah, detective series. There's a lot of references to... Well, we'll get to another one. There's another significant one, which is... But did you catch Dr. Lewis? I recommended Zora, who is Scarlett Johansson's character, to Rupert Friend. Do you hear what he said?

What did he say? I feel like he's like, Pierre Pasolini recommended you to me. Oh, he said Paolo Pasolini. Paolo Pasolini, yeah. So, yeah, you think that was a filmic reference to the gospel according to Saint Matthew? It could be.

A lot of references in this movie. There were a lot of references. The character who comes along with them is played by Jonathan Bailey, Dr. Loomis, who is a paleontologist of some renown, I suppose, and is able to identify what these different dinosaurs look like. They need DNA from three different dinosaurs.

A Pterodon in the sky, the largest one. A Mosasaurus, which is an underwater dinosaur. And a Titanosaurus, which is a herbivore of some kind of large kind of brontosaurus. Land, earth and sea. Land, earth and sea. And so they're like, we gotta go to Suriname, and then we gotta pick up Duncan Kincaid,

and we gotta listen to Primal Scream while we're there. He's got a boat, so that's why they need him. You gotta have a guy with a boat. And he has a guy named Atwater who might be South African, who's also a merc. And a couple other cool people on the boat. And the gang gets all together and they're like, let's go get some dino blood.

This is minute 40, right? Minute 40, roughly. And at that time, that's when that other family that Chris is referring to... Hard cut to family sailing across the Atlantic that we haven't met yet. Just like, indefensibly stupid screenwriting. That whole plot is complete garbage. Like, nonsense.

Could have cut the entire thing out of the movie. I mean, you don't think if that was the plot, that's not good? Like if it was about a family sailing... It's just the most, like, we gotta get kids in danger in this movie. Mammal, the role foe who's Lincoln Lawyer in the Netflix show. Yes. And the performances are fine. Those kids are good. Like, the young girl, especially, I thought her performance was really good, considering she was acting opposite a tennis ball.

But that whole bit... Who is a small little dinosaur she befriends named... that name's Dolores. Dolores, yes. Who likes licorice. David Iacono from Summer I Turn Pretty is in this. Your favorite show. Well, I'm...

You were... Were you mad at this from a... uh, screenwriting perspective or a parent's screenwriting perspective? You did turn to me and you were like, -"This is irresponsible!" -"That's what Marshall Ali's character says!" I know, and they put that scene in the movie to kind of like yada yada where the guy gets to say, there are 50,000 boats in these waters. It's like, there are not 50,000 boats in the waters next to the fucking Mosasaurus!

I'm not an idiot! You can't treat me like an idiot in a movie like this. The great thing about Jurassic Park is, it's an absurd premise, but it very carefully makes you understand its own logic, and you go along with it. The entire time I was watching this movie, I was like, this is not well thought out at all. Here's my counter to you.

This was actually what I thought Final Reckoning was gonna be, which is a series of really well-planned sequences, you know, that maybe don't actually come together in a story. But I understand you're like, it's insulting my intelligence. Why are they... This is clearly, we need to have a kid aspect. We need to have a baby Yoda dinosaur or whatever. Like, it's obviously like, that's what the deal is. But at the same time, like, I think Edwards understands how to stage these things's obviously like that's what the deal is, but at the same time, like I think Edwards understands

how to stage these things in a way that's probably like a pretty good J.V. Spielberg at this point. Like where, you know, like there's a, I mean we can get into the individual like encounters with dinosaurs if you want to, but I thought there was one where Xavier, who is the teenage girl's boyfriend who has come along on this transatlantic voyage,

is taking a piss. And he, it's like up on his face, like he's just trying to take a leak, and two raptors basically zero in on him. And then the pterodactyl thing comes and grabs the raptors. But the entire time, it's just on this kid's face with all this stuff happening in the background. And he can hear it, and he gets, like,

splashed by some sort of dinosaur liquid. Saliva, yeah. Yeah. So I just think, you know, and it's like... And you have that primal moment. As soon as the Raptors show up, Chris was just like, oh, no, you know? And then, so...

I understand your point, which is we have seen all this before, and it doesn't make any sense, but I agree with Chris that it is a really well-executed version of what we've done. The sequences are good. It looks good. It's really not, Amanda. It's not a really good version of this kind of a movie. Like, it's just not. I don't know what to tell you.

Like, there have been seven of these now. It's fine. Like, I think Gareth Edward just really got it. Don't you think it's better than The Jurassic World? I absolutely do. I think the original Jurassic World certainly is at least neck and neck with this. Like there was at least like new shape toward the plotting of that movie.

This is literally just a remake, like you said, of the first film. In part because it's written by David Kep, where they're kind of like forcing aspects of this story as hard as they can to give you that exact feeling. There's literally a scene in the planes where they're watching a herbivore and they're hitting the theme hard and they're having characters look up in wonder and touch them gently.

It is the same. No, I know. I mean, there's like, instead of the kitchen, it's the convenience store. The convenience store, yeah. There's a fine line between homage and jerking me off. You know what I mean? And this is like really on the line of jerking me off.

I thought there was a larger line. I mean, that's like, personally on the line of jerking me off. I hope there's a larger line. Personally. That's why I think I actually, I found the cap tips to other franchises and other movies more enjoyable than the Jurassic Park rerun stuff. So, you know, there's references to Indiana Jones, to aliens, to Jaws. And I actually found like all that stuff way more enjoyable than like, oh, Brontosaurus is necking, you know, like, so sweet.

But like, you know, I think that the problem is, is that seeing Jurassic Park the first time when you're a kid, whenever you've seen it, like you could see it two years ago and have the same reaction. The first time you see the dinosaurs, you're having the reaction of the people in the park the first time they're seeing dinosaurs, and this thing that they never thought would happen is happening.

And as a kid, you're obsessed with dinosaurs, but you're like, I'll never actually know what these things look or feel or move like. And this first movie, Jurassic Park, is the closest thing we ever got to that feeling. And ever since then, you know, no matter what technological leaps they make, it's still gonna be like, great, Brontosaurus.

You know, like, I kind of feel like it's a shame, it's a drug, and you just get used to the drug after a while. Yeah, I don't know, I don't think you saw the last two Jurassic World movies. So because of that, you're a little bit more open-minded. We just did this three years ago. I did this last night. Yeah, but I didn't like them. And I disagree too, for me... I, like, a watchable version of original Jurassic Park

is more enjoyable than, like, a boring Chris Pratt. Like, you know, I understand Blue or whatever, and he's like friends with the raptor, and then, like, Bryce Dallas Howard is there, and she's like friends with the Raptor, and then like Bryce Dallas Howard is there, and she's got like... He's got a little clicker. Yeah, and she has like, saved the island or something. Like, I don't know, I don't care about those people.

Okay. Did you care about Zora? I don't care about those performances. You're dying on Rebirth Island? This is a weird one for you. I'm not dying on it. I'm just like, I didn't have a bad time. Yeah. It looks really good, it's just like every Gareth Edwards movie.

It's just the plotting and the story is just real janky. And you never buy it. You blame the script or you blame Universal being like, we gotta have a family in this. I said this to actually, I mentioned this when we were watching the movie. There's a cool sequence where they're moving through the jungle.

And again, I agree that there are a lot of cool sequences. But there's a cool sequence where they're moving through the jungle. And Jonathan Bailey kind of takes over the movie a little bit and he starts talking about kind of the arc of time in science, and how we're just like a blip, essentially, in the history of this planet, and dinosaurs have ruled for much longer than we will ever live on this planet.

And it's classic David Kep, where he's just got... He's letting someone monologue because other characters are asking questions that you would never ask in real life. You know, there's a part where Rupert Friend is like, well, what do you mean by that? Which no one would ever say when a scientist starts talking. But Jonathan Bailey is a really good performer and that's really well written stuff.

So when you're watching that, you're like, this is kind of entertaining and it feels like it's raising the stakes, but it's totally manufactured and it's totally transparent. So something that feels deep or thematic is just something that we already learned in 1993 when we saw the first film. There's literally nothing new idea wise here. Yeah, I think that the, for as much as you can celebrate the visual achievements of the first one, it also had a very coherent kind of like, what if we don't, no, we can do something, but that doesn't mean we should. And more and more as the films went on,

I think it lost any kind of like, what is this movie trying to say? Not that it has to say something, but good storytelling is grounded in an idea that matters, whether it's dinosaurs or not. I think it's a question of what you ultimately want from the movies. Like you're saying you wanna have that warm feeling

of the wonder of a dinosaur sequence, right? Or like be stressed out, because even though I have literally like seen... Like I have the design of the kitchen sequence from the original Jurassic Park like memorized, and I like reference it regularly when my sons figure out how to open a new door, you know? Um, I have like, I have it memorized,

but I was still stressed out in this recreation, which is in a convenience store instead of a thing, and it is like the small child has to hide somewhere, I have, like, I haven't memorized, but I was still stressed out in this recreation, which is in a convenience store instead of a thing. And it is like the small child has to hide somewhere, and they're all, like, literally hiding behind as the, you know, like, you could, like, schematically, like, shot for shot. Mm-hmm. Put it on one, but like, I don't care. It's, like, I was still stressed out.

I had a couple more questions for you. Yeah. We're just doing free fire, right? Yeah, let's keep going. How long do you think you could survive on a pure licorice diet? Well, it's been almost 43 years now. So there's a child in this movie seems to only eat licorice both on the boat and on the island and then befriends another dinosaur, gets through her trauma, honestly.

A lot of trauma for everybody in this movie. Everybody's working through some trauma. Trauma in a 21st century movie? Yeah, man. As a storytelling device? I just saw it drop the other night, and I was like, god damn it, this is like a fun movie with like this ridiculous like bookend plot on it.

But Mahershal Ali lost a child maybe, but it's never explicitly said so. Well, he split up. Or he used to be dead. No, I think it is, it he's never explicitly said so. Well, he split up. He did. No, I think it is, it's explicitly that they- They lost a child. They lost a child and it was like too painful. They reminded each other of the child, so they split up.

And then he takes the picture of the child who, I assume that that was like a baby picture of Mahershal Ali. It looked so much like him. But then I was thinking, so like, what's the ask? Who's being like, hey man, do you mind if we have a baby photo? That we can then print out? You know, like, I think that would fuck me up a little bit.

Yeah, because we only have 90 seconds of conversation between you and ScarJo to establish your entire emotional register. I thought it was two minutes, and I have to say, I thought this is one of the better ScarJo performances I've seen in some times, so that's where I am. What did you think of Scarlett Johansson in this film? Well, I came into it knowing that she really wanted to make a diacetyl. I thought this is one of the better ScarJo performances I've seen in some times, so that's where I am. What did you think of Scarlett Johansson in this film?

Well, I came into it knowing that she really wanted to make a Jurassic Park movie, that she had long desired to do one, the schedule's never worked out. She basically begged to do this movie. And I thought she acquitted herself pretty well. I think one of her best performances is a little bit of a reach, but...

I said in a while. Sure, okay. Yeah, I think one of her best performances is a little bit of a reach, but... I said in a while. Um, sure. Okay. Uh... Yeah, I think she's... I liked it. I didn't mind it. She looks great. Um, she does not have a lot of dialogue. She doesn't scream milk to me. No.

She isn't the first person you'd likely go to for this job, would be my guess. She seemed in control, you know? She knew that she needed Jonathan Bailey to hook her into those, uh, like the carabiners on either side of the ship so she wouldn't fall over, but, you know, after she shot the water dinosaur. It was some of the greatest Chekhov's carabiner hooks I've ever seen in my life when she flips over the edge.

Yeah, she was okay. What'd you think? Uh, I thought she was good, but the character was silly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, same for Mahershala. So I wonder whether or not you guys had the same sensation I did, where it's like, you know, they're boating and they're capsizing and they're rescue

and then like they're kind of adventure through the jungle, the family I'm talking about. Versus, like, did you have a preference of which movie you liked more? The mercenary science story or the family survival story? It's pretty easily the mercenary stuff for me, but I was kind of hoping that they would take it somewhere a little further beyond, you know, what was explained to us in the original film

about the potential scientific power of dinosaur DNA. I mean, that was just explored a long time ago. There's a very funny moment where they're talking about whether or not they're going to sell the dinosaur DNA to make tens of millions of dollars or make it open source so that everybody can get it. And Scarlett Johansson's like, who should we give it to? And I was like, please just say Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Dinosaur DNA! Yeah. It's just a good example of trying to have it both ways. It's like, you know, this movie is being put out by a massive corporation and it's pretty dumb and they just want everybody to just eat their popcorn and shut up and like it over the holiday weekend. This is not so the idea of suggesting that there would ever be a moment in time where a pharmaceutical company would not allow this precious information that they have acquired. Spoiler alert, are we spoiling things? Can we hit the spoiler?

I mean, it's not necessary. I think it's clear who's going to die in this movie from the moment it starts. Well, actually, I got to tell you, one guy made it, who I thought was definitely destined for death. So Are you referring to Xavier? Yeah.

Really? Yeah. That's the other thing. As soon as he showed up, I was like, oh. That's the other thing, is this movie has no guts. It doesn't kill anybody. Come on. That's my problem.

I'm so mad. It's really lame, man. This movie could have been a lot better, because Gareth Edwards knows how to shoot a movie It's just he keeps taking on movies with terrible scripts in rehearsal like fake death was silly. Yes. Yeah, it's just super lame And it was also like we even want to die. Yeah, don't put him in that Rehearsal all he's not actually dying. You don't actually have a relationship to Duncan Kincaid make me feel something for fuck's sake Have real stakes instead of just killing like the French captain who falls asleep,

who's the most obvious, like, we've never seen this man in our lives before. He's obviously gonna die. Lady with short hair. Right, yeah, that's too bad. Um, I've, let's see, like, I was gonna try and, off the top of my head, powering some of the dinosaur interactions here. I really liked the water dinosaur. I thought that all the, like, essentially, like, this is a great white shark stuff was really cool.

The boat flipping was good. There's so many things that he does where I'm like, oh shit, like you're better than like, 98% of the people would have done that. And then I liked all that kind of the like, sailboat dinosaurs who showed up to help the big dinosaur. You went to the bathroom for that. I was, I missed some of that.

I was watching from the side. Running the boat into the shallows to try and outrun the Mosasaurus. Is that what it is? Mosasaurus. Mosasaurus. That was cool. The bird dinosaur, I could take or leave, honestly. And in fact, I'm not like a super big fan of airborne dinosaurs. I thought the T-Rex sequence was good.

Yeah. I thought that was really clever. Yeah, I thought that was really cool. They were sleeping in the grass. I'd never seen the T-Rex sequence was good. I thought that was really clever. Yeah, I thought that was really cool. I'd never seen the T-Rex on its back before. That was a cool thing to show us. And then the raft like opening up and then hiding the dinosaur departing and then the chase through the river. I thought all that stuff was really good. It's a good example of like, Gareth Edwards has the juice

when it comes to this kind of action staging. And the CGI looks really good in this movie for the most part. Yeah. Um, but anytime people start talking, I'm like, yeah, guys, let's go back to getting eaten by dinosaurs. Can I go back? Can I do Amanda Science Corner? Yes, please. About so like... Do we have to vamp for the music to kick in?

No, do you need, do you need, do you need? Welcome to Amanda Toppbins' Science Corner. That's like the- That sounded like the super Mario. It is. It's like the corn world. Yeah. That's like the only video game song that I know.

And this is going to kind of be a continuation of our, like, the reproductive systems of mutated creatures that we don't really know what we're dealing with. After 28 years later. Oh, yeah. I'd like to kind of talk about the embryo, the egg and the embryo extraction process. So what is he, so we think the embryonic fluid. I believe so. Is, like, has the DNA, but is also,, I mean I guess that is true that we know in humans from a testing perspective because now they can test the... Yeah, for potential discrepancies in the DNA. Right, for chromosomes or whatever, but now they mostly do that with blood.

But we've seen the movie... Well they do. No, I was laughing because I wasn't sure whether Science Corner was supposed to ask questions or answer them. It's a really good question. So it's basically he's doing amniocentesis. And then like the amniotic fluid is that they're using. But that... I don't know if it is exactly the same in terms of dinosaur eggs and birth as it is for humans. But you have to assume that's their model. I think we'd assume birds would be their model. Well, you know. Well, it's an egg. I guess so.

In a nest. That's true. When the angry mom bird showed up, I was like, oh, you're in trouble. Really, that was scary. You related to her? I did. I was like, you don't want to be in an enclosed space with some eggs when the mom comes back. Do you think that that bird dinosaur is on your mom's whatsapp?

Once again, we've learned that pterodons can't have it all That unhide blanket is coming your way What did you guys think of the? Giant mutant dinosaur that dominates the opening sequence in the closing sequence of the movie? It's pretty ugly. You know? Uh... Some marks for not having the T-Rex come in and save the day as it has in so many films. I was waiting for the T-Rex to come through

and fuck that guy up. You know, and it did teach me a lesson about... Maybe we shouldn't... Once again, we shouldn't fuck with nature. You know? Because that's what you get. You learned that lesson in 1993. Well, apparently I haven't, once again, we shouldn't fuck with nature, you know, cause that's what you get. You learned that lesson in 1993. Well, apparently I haven't because we're still here and also I'm getting lasers on my face to try to reverse time, you know, so.

Yeah, I did. First set, but just one, but just a laser. Nothing injected yet. You gotta be careful with those lasers cause they do attract dinosaurs. So next time you get that laser going, we do learn that the red light, Gareth Edwards, he loves a red light, man, You know, remember in Godzilla? This is his thing.

The opening sequence of this movie is very much like Godzilla with... Through the glass. Binoche. We've seen this before, you know? With that, with two actors I don't know, as opposed to Julia Binoche and Bryan Cranston giving the performance of their lives in Godzilla. Cranston's such a fucking maniac in that movie. I liked them both. They were really good. You're so angry.

I'm just disappointed. Do you think it was the call time? If I brought you, like, a pastry? No, it's just... This movie was rushed, and you can tell, and they could have done better. It's just clear that they could have done better. Why are you flaring your nostrils at me? Like, I just showed up to do my job.

Because you owe it to the people that showed them the truth. And I am telling them the truth, is I got the fuck up, I went to see a movie, and I had a pretty good time. Yeah, I'm sure some people will feel that way, but I, this is in a realm of a certain kind of, like, this is representative of the circling the drain era of franchise filmmaking to me. This is like, this is, it's not as bad as Fast X at all,

and I'm not as mad as I was about that. This movie has a lot more craft in it, but it's a little insulting. I think you're feeling the way I was feeling during Ballerina. Like, I mean, where I'm like mad about this and nobody else is really mad. They're just like, that wasn't very good. Yeah, I actually, I mean, I enjoy, I was probably closer to a man on this, but that's more just because I'm like, oh, they shot this on film, huh? Yeah, I'm usually like, I'm usually willing to forgive someon this but that's more just because I'm like, oh they shot this on film, huh? Yeah, I'm usually like I'm usually willing to forgive some of these things

We I think I just forget gets too close to something, you know, you like that's and then it comes up short I was just gonna say that I didn't have this problem with f1 because I hadn't quite seen a movie like that before So the set piece stuff that I saw in that movie. I was like, oh man, it's racing I've never seen this in a movie before this is incredible So I was more willing to forgive some of the script problems in that movie, I was like, oh man, this is racing. I've never seen this in a movie before. This is incredible. So I was more willing to forgive some of the script problems. In a movie like this, I'm like, I don't know, we got six dinosaur movies already.

What's your version of this then? Would it be like, what's a movie that you like, this comes too close to something I already know I like, and it's not good enough? I don't know, because they don't, they've just given up making movies. Clint Eastwood Westerns? Yeah, that's exactly it.

Bill Ryder. I guess like Netflix movies, you know, like all of the romantic comedy stuff. Even then, it's like they don't spend any money on that. That shit doesn't even look good. So like the fact that it actually, it does look good. Respectfully, I thought the performances in this movie were like better than almost everyone except Javier Bardem in F1. Um, but that's just... In rebirth.

Yeah, that's just something that I'm working on. That's just a wild take. I mean, I just, I'm bragging, he's, like, actively bad in that movie. Yeah, but Carrie Condon's in that movie. Tobias Menzies, James and Idris. Like, I don't know. You know, this movie's okay, but they're barely humans.

They barely talk. But they at least have, have like some sort of charisma. Okay. I don't know. I'm happy for you, I guess. This is like Siskel, Ebert, and Chris. I just like, I wasn't that mad. I get mad at plenty of things, but.

Do you think, one thing that I thought was interesting, unless there was a cut scene that I'm not available that we missed, was that there is really no breadcrumb trail to a sequel here. I cannot imagine that Universal will let that go cold, but it's fascinating that I can't imagine... Dolores left the island, right? Dolores left the island and the DNA left the island.

And so did the briefcase. Why go back to the island? I mean, like, you know, leave the site from orbit, you know? Yeah, I think that's kind of the challenge of this franchise in general is like, the first film is contained, the second film, they leave and get on this little wider world. The third film, they have to go back. Then in the fourth film, they're like, we're gonna redo the park, because it's been 20 years and nobody forgot.

And then we're gonna go back to America, and then we're gonna go back to the island. Like, they keep ping-ponging back and forth. There's no expansion, I'm not suggesting they go to space, but there's no expansion beyond those two journeys. And so it just gets redundant. Dinosaurs in space. Could be good.

You never know. James Cameron should make that. Leave Frisnolan alone. That would be pretty good. Put a Tyrannosaurus on the moon, dog. I was just Googling like Suriname geographically to kind of understand like what the next. The former Dutch colony, right? Yes, but it's-

Or is it still a Dutch colony? I want to say I'm happy for Vampire Weekend for getting a needle drop and a- Me too. Major blockbuster. And Primal Scream. The Primal Scream one was shocking. That's the thing is, when you go down the list of this movie,

you're like, Alexander Desplat did the score. John Matheson, who shot Gladiator, shot this movie. Gareth Edwards, the single greatest CGI artist working in Hollywood. So on paper... Two Oscar winners. ScarJo and Marshall are hanging out on a boat. This all sounds so good.

And, you know, here's where I have it. So where is Suriname? Tell us about it. So, I mean, it is in, um... in South America, the northeastern coast of South America, and I assume they were on, like, islands. You know, so I guess they're, like, headed back to continental South America. But I assume they were on, like, islands, you know? So I guess they're, like, headed back to continental South America. But we're not far from...

Well, they departed from Suriname, but I think they went some miles out. Yeah, they had to go to Barbados, and then they were in Suriname. So Barbados is north. Yeah, so that's what I'm saying, we're not that far from the Caribbean. So, like, maybe they're in, like, a, you know, their own Bermuda's Triangle, but they could head back to the Caribbean. And then, you know, that would at least be contained again.

These are the islands. Yeah. So this is, so what you're saying is this movie might be a secret Bermuda Triangle movie. I mean, I like where we go with that. Like maybe a salient of the Bermuda Triangle. Would that please you? That would be exciting. It would be new. There you go.

It would be new. Okay, look, see? We solved it. It would give us a new sense of confusion that I think these films really need. They go into the Bermuda Triangle, into a time portal, they show up in 1993, Costa Rica, D. Aged Lord, Durn, Sam Neill, and Richard Attenborough. Costa Rica is far away from, you know,

you gotta get all the way through the Caribbean. Stick Attenborough dead. He's Dead you killed him. No, I first think about David Attenborough still narrating. Oh, he's so he's still kicking. Yeah. Hey brothers I don't know Richard Attenborough passed in 2014. Yeah, he was 90 years old You think he caked up from Jurassic residuals. You think they took care of him? Um No, but he directed Gandhi so I think it's okay.

What kind of residuals do you think Gandhi is throwing off? The film Gandhi or his family legacy? All of his investments in Great British import. Gandhi probably not that strong. I do believe it was recently issued in 4k. Okay. So there could have been some cost of new revenue streams. No, I'm not a fan of that film. It's quite boring. It's an example of something I don't need to own. It's a short list of things I don't need to own.

One of them, Gandhi. You will not be buying Jurassic World Rebirth 4K. You will not be buying that. Uh, we'll see. What are you talking about? I don't think I own any Gareth. No, I own Godzilla and Rogue One. Rogue One, you gotta own. He's Monsters on 4K? Just Blu-Ray, but I don't I don't think I own any Gareth. No, I own I own Godzilla and Rogue One. Oh, when you got it He's monsters on 4k

Just blu-ray, but I don't own that the creator. I don't know What would you like for robots to be free? Doesn't this feel very similar to the creator. It felt very similar to monsters Yeah, but just with a lot bigger budget and more CGI. Yeah, he's like've been waiting in some ways, he's been waiting 15 years to make this movie. He has, he has. Yeah, it did feel similar to The Creator where you're like, there's five things that happen in this movie that are some of the best stuff you'll see all year and then there's a lot that could have been workshopped.

No man, it's holiday weekend. I'm just, I'm ready to go. I'm happy for you. Similar moment in The Creator where the, Is it the national anthem or which... Or is it... Which kid ate needle drop... Uh, hits in The Creator where... It's like John David Washington flying in a helicopter amidst utter destruction in the world

and a radio head needle drop hits. Everything in its right place. I watched The Creator on an airplane without sound, so I wouldn't... You didn't get a chance to hear that. How come you hear no sound just because you were like, I want to go back to silent phones? No, because I was with my child and it's like, it's honestly...

And Knox was younger, so it's just like too hard to keep the thing plugged in. Because you just blown it out? Yeah, basically. Introducing TurboTax Business. A brand new way to file your own T2 return, basically. you found so you know your returns done right. Intuit TurboTax business. New from TurboTax Canada. Some regional exclusions apply. Learn more at TurboTax.ca slash business tax. So these movies are incredibly reliable box office success. And the reason why this one happened as good as it did is because there was a need to get a big movie on the slate

for the studio this summer. Do you think that there will still be the like billion dollar appetite for this so quickly after Dominion? What's coming up next? What's the next big summer movie after this? Superman. Superman, yeah. How many weeks? Next week.

In five, seven days. I mean, we heard applause when we were walking out of an 8 a.m. screening. Like I think that this will have decent word of mouth among people who are like, I wanna see dinosaurs rock and roll. And I guess cinephiles who like things shot on film. I don't know.

I know that it's not been, has it been warmly received? I mean- No, not at all. No, their reviews are very bad. But like, but also Charles Holmes was in here being like, really liked it. So, and that's a historical hater. So. It's true. Pull up the old rotten tomatoes for Jurassic World Rebirth.

It's not good. It did not. It's at 53%. Yeah. Yeah, I'm curious. I mean, box office wise, this is a very sturdy franchise. Let's just take a look at the last few. So, franchise. Let's just take a look at the last few. So Jurassic World, this is just domestic I think. Jurassic World did 652 million, Fallen Kingdom 417, Dominion

376, the original Jurassic did 357, Lost World 229, and Jurassic Park 3 181. If you had to guess, where do you think this one will land? Below Dominion, but in the, I think it'll, I think 300. 300. That sounds right. Yeah, that sounds. That sounds about, it's going to do 100 million over this five day period for sure. I don't think the word of mouth is going to be super strong. I think it'll satisfy the Jurassic heads for sure. And there are a great many. So let me tell you about my experience over the weekend. Cause you mentioned, uh, I did get a chance to see Glenda and Elphaba at Universal Studios, which was very nice for my daughter, but we also got to

experience something that I did not know existed because I haven't been in Universal Studios in 15 years. There are animatronic dinosaurs in the, in the, in the park. So when you go, when you go to Universal Studios in California, you have to go down literally four giant escalators. So you walk all the way to the back of the park and you go down four escalators. And at the back of the park, at the bottom of the park,

is Dino Land. No minions. Dino Land and Super Nintendo World. That's where all the Super Mario Brothers stuff is in Dino land There are quote-unquote Ingen employees who are luring out life-sized animatronic dinosaurs that you can interact with

This experience was so much more cool than this stupid movie I couldn't believe the like technology with which you can interact with these actual dinosaurs. And it obviously makes sense given the nature of this kind of storytelling, but it was a, for once in my life, to not be in a movie theater was a better experience movie-wise. A hundred times out of a hundred, I'm picking a movie theater to whatever the hell it is you just described. Like where I'm interacting with performers. You know who would not is your son. Your son would have his head split open by this. No, I think, well, he's three, so he would just be scared.

But when he's four... It wasn't that scary, but when he's four... You know what? He's potty trained now, so why are you taking him out? This was, um... When's he ready to start fielding grounders? Now? This was obviously intentional marketing for this movie, which I didn't realize, but there

was an employee who was walking around with a backpack that had a little dinosaur in it that little kids could pet. Oh cool. You know Val sees that she's going to flip out. She did see it. Do you have a Dolores now? No, we saw the Dolores in the park. Yeah, do you have one at home?

No, they weren't selling it or anything like that. It was like a little animatronic baby dinosaur that kids could interact with. So it was like the David Copperfield alien? Yeah, it was like that. It was just, it was a little animatronic baby dinosaur that kids could interact with. So it was like the David Copperfield alien? Kids were, their minds were melting. Yeah, it was like that. It was just like that. Can I tell a personal story? I have to really quickly.

I was in Oregon over the weekend and I was on a hike. And before we started the hike, I was going to a ranger station just to go to the bathroom really quick. And as I was coming out, I really hit my head hard on like a roof eve, you know, that was hanging over. And I'm like, fuck, that hurt.

And I'm walking and they're like, are three, these three women, lovely women were like, are you okay? And I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were like, are you okay? That was really hard. And I'm like, do I have blood streaming out of my head? And then they go, are you Chris Ryan? So McKenna and her two friends, I am alive.

And thank you, they were big picture fans. Oh, that's nice. Hi McKenna. Were you badly concussed? No, I was fine. Okay. Yeah, I have a hard head. I've hit it a lot in my life, you know, clumsy.

Did it leave a bruise? No, I don't think so. Everything's fine. Everything's cool. Are we, is this really you? Is this not an animatronic you? Why, because I like the movie a lot? No, no, I'm just I'm just interrogating a little bit. I want to make sure that you're not the AI exoskeleton version of CR

You can't really rank these movies because you missed the last two Okay, then I can put in my mind Jurassic World at the bottom Okay, okay over so you prefer Jurassic Park 3 to Jurassic World? I don't really remember it, to be honest. I've seen it. I'm gonna make you upset. I'm gonna put Jurassic World Rebirth at four. Ooh.

Over... All of the Jurassic, all the Pratt movies. Just the Travorrow, J.A. Bayona movies. I mean, that's fine, but it's like four, five, six, and seven are all. You wanted to rank them. Way below. I honestly... What?

Well, you said you were gonna upset me and it doesn't upset me. We showed up at the movies to have a nice time together. And I just like... That's not why we showed up at the movies. And then you were so mad at us. I'm not mad. I'm not mad.

Don't put in the newspaper that I'm mad about Jurassic World. I am mad. I'm mad. We should just, like, get a... I deserve better. We should, like, get a newspaper that says I'm mad. And let's make you hold it out for real. You've been the mad queen recently. And you were, like, at 5.30, six o'clock.

You were, like, I'm gonna get a beer with Sierra and Amanda after this. I had a Coke, you know, like... It's got nothing to do with the time. I'm up at that hour every day of my life. But you don't think about, like, It's got nothing to do with the time. I'm up at that hour every day of my life. But you don't think about, like, science and Robert Kennedy and Jorah Bennett that early in the morning, do you? I think about Robert Kennedy every morning of my life

because of the hellscape that we've been through. You're like, maybe this is the last time. She's like... She's so fucked up. No, I don't want my intelligence insulted at the movies. That's honestly how I feel. I think that just because a movie is a big blockbuster doesn't mean it has to be stupid. This movie is stupid, in my opinion.

Alright. I know that's a hard thing to respond to, because there's not gonna be any moving me off that stone. No, I think it's okay. That's fine. But it's generally how I feel. I've had reactions like that to things. I hope Celine Song directs the next one. Ha ha ha ha ha!

I'm not sure that the performance is going to be any better if she did. Have you gotten any feedback on your materialist love? No, I haven't heard anything. Have you guys? Nothing. No. No. I think it's okay.

It's just like what you like. You know, it's a tough world out there. Do you think this will be nominated for best picture? Name nine movies better than it. What's the movie that Naaman talked about the other day? For like 13 minutes? Caught by the Tides? Yeah, that's number one.

I sent Sean a meme of two basketball players. One is Michael Porter Jr. who is a legendary idiot who was on the Nuggets and has got a podcast where he interviews porn stars and conspiracy theorists and mostly is just sharing his takes. And he's like, it's a clip of him being like, I heard Homeland Security invaded Diddy's house. Why did they do that? And then the next is Camp Thomas, Camp Johnson or Camp Thomas? Camp Johnson. Who got traded for Michael Porter Jr. giving like an amazing, beautiful answer about the ballet

and physique of the jump shot and going left versus going right. And I said to Sean, I was like, this is like the difference between me and Naaman on the pop. That's funny. That was really good. The MPJ of the big picture. But you're a dead eye shooter. You shoot 40% from three every season. And we really appreciate that about you.

Who was your comp for Face of the Ringer? My comp? I didn't get one. You didn't get one? No. Did he get one? Did Sean? No, it was just more, it was Joe and then I think Bill, but I can't remember even, I can't even remember. Joe is Kyrie Irving.

Right. I thought it was controversial. Van pointed out that she was Tatum. I was Tatum. Interesting. Because you love your son? I get that was... That was literally why.

Oh. I, but I said it was because she has no swag. Okay much like JT JT you're going to time out for the rest of the weekend because I am your father I Don't really have anything else on the movie Okay, talk about running man. You want to talk about anything else? Um, yeah, I mean running man

Looks good. It looks fun. November? I'm open. Yeah, I think it will be... I'm curious if the Edgar Wright action filmmaking style is super mainstream. Because this is a movie that wants to be super mainstream. And it's obviously

inventive. There's a couple of moments you can see just similar with set pieces. The stairway thing. Yeah. Yeah, the stairway moment, the electrified water gun, the Michael Cera fires, the elevator sequence, the bomb, the grenade, like all that stuff is really cool and fun. Coleman Domingo is playing it really big as the host. Glenn Powell is playing it. And so is Glenn Powell too. And he doesn't usually play

that style of like, He seems very angry. And his character seems mad in the movie. Toe-to-toe mad with Brolin, one of the kings of mad acting. So we'll see if that works. I hope it does. I like everybody involved. I'm open to it. And I'm mixed on right, usually. But, you know, the Glenn Powell of it all. He seems really into wearing disguises, you know?

He's like, I like that in Hitman. He's like, I'm gonna keep doing it. That's like his running. You think you should do that in Top Gun 3? -♪ LAUGHS AND LAUGHSahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehehahehe Do you believe it? I feel like we're going to have to worry about F2 first, you know? F1 big hit, now they're going to make another one. They got Kaczynski back in there. Kaczynski really just a lot going on right now in your world. I know. Because there's...

He's an invasive species. Well, there's a UFO movie. I love him, but like he's coming for Miami and it's sacred ground. So UFO movie, F-12, Top Gun 3, and a Miami Vice movie written by Dan Gilroy. Okay. And did you see the report that, just not Kaczynski related, but adjacent to Miami Vice is that the script for Heat 2 has been turned in

and apparently Warner Brothers were thrilled. Oh, good. Yes, that is only in the realm of rumor right now, right? There's not been any... Where do you think I live, you know? You do live in the world of... Much like John Berntal in the audience, Odyssey. Rumor and gossip.

Yeah, he too, you feeling good? I just thought it was interesting that that report came out. What's the casting rumor right now? It was... It was still Driver, right? It was... Austin Butler, Sherlois was the one that has been the most forward.

I think there was also like Austin Butler is gonna be in the Don Winslow trilogy. He's gonna star in the Don Winslow trilogy. So I think his dance card is getting very full. And I can't remember who else was being kicked around Oscar Isaac at one point, but I don't know. When's the last time you saw Heat? Two or three years ago?

Fairly recently. I want to say, yeah. I turned it on. I can't remember why, but it was somehow big picture related. I turned it on and then Zach wandered in about 20 minutes and it was like, you watching Heat? And he didn't tell me? And then just sat down. Did you, were you watching it because of Ferrari?

Maybe, or maybe I was watching it before, even before because Heat 2, the book, came out. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna read Heat 2, but I should probably, you know, revisit Heat first. But then I never read Heat 2 because Zach took it and then read it. And now I don't know where it is. But then it popped up in your background.

What are you talking about? It's in the bookshelf where you record your podcast. Oh, that's in Zach's office. Everybody was like, holy shit, he too is right behind Amanda's head. Well, that's where he took it. Okay, see, he took it in his office. And he closes that. We have to keep that door closed because... Raptors. Yeah, because the raptors figured out.

And then they find all the loud toys. Two raptors are like, did you finish heat two yet? ["Bad Boy's Theme Song"] It's an amazing place to rap. Thank you both. Thank you for loving cinema. You really showed your love today in the face of my discontent. Let's go now to my conversation with Ava Victor. I'm very happy to have Ava Victor here talking about a debut movie and hopefully your life

and career. When there's a first time filmmaker on the show, I always ask the very stupid, where did you come from? Why are you here? How did you get here? Question. It's stupid potentially to you, but to me it's a fabulous question. Well, would you mind answering it? I would love to answer I

It's like that question makes me want to say I'm from San Francisco and Then talk about movies, but so I'll do that. Perfect. I am went to school for acting and playwriting and then Moved to New York after school and was auditioning for things. And then eventually started writing and started making videos online that were like one minute comedy videos. And then in the pandemic, everything kind of slowed down. And I started watching movies

to sort of escape my life, but also to sort of go deeper into my life. Something was happening. I don't totally have the words for it still, but I think I was looking for companionship in film, and it sort of let me feel a lot, but in the company of the film. So that sort of set me on a track of being like, well, what if I made my own film?

And then I went away and wrote, Sorry Baby, and sent it to Barry and Adela and Mark at Pastel, who I'd met before and I felt like they saw me as a filmmaker before anyone else believed in me in that way. You're going to, this is obviously a podcast, but I will start to sweat because I'm in a small room and I just want you to know that I know I'm sweating.

So it's not an issue for me. I just want you to know I'm ahead of it. I'm not that sick, but I'm ahead of it. I'm sitting in front of bright lights and also sweating, so we can sweat together. Oh, really? I would never know. Okay, cool. I naturally don't emanate this glow.

This is manufactured. Thank you for sharing that. I naturally don't emanate this glow. This is manufactured. Thank you for sharing that. I feel more safe and comfortable. Can I interrupt you for a second? Because I did read that you had this moment of relationship building to movies during the pandemic, which I think millions of people developed a deeper bond to watching things and specifically films too. But did you have a big relationship to movies before that? Would you consider yourself a cinephile or a film fan when you were growing up?

You know, I watched, we didn't really have TV at my house. We had a VHS player and then a DVD player and we had like 10 DVDs and they were slash VHS. We transitioned to DVD and that was like a huge moment for the family. But we started, like I watched Singin' in the Rain, Swingtime, Top Hat, like Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers stuff. Yellow, and then Hard Day's Night was a big one.

And then I watched all of Bewitched. And my mom was like, this is sexist, but really good and I was like, not a problem. So, so I, I watched a lot of the same things over and over again, but I didn't, you know, I feel like there's this thing that happens where people are like, well, if you want to make a movie, you have to watch The Godfather. And so I was like, okay, so I'm gonna watch all this stuff

that everyone says you have to watch. But then through that found the movie, like through The Godfather, through The Shining, like, which are amazing. I found the movies that I think were more my speed like Paris, Texas or in the mood for love or you know just like slow beautiful things. But yeah there's like I feel like watching movies when you want to make movies starts as like a fraudulent feeling and then you like I think it started with that and then I sort of fell in love with with what I was watching and it became much more heart motivated. Can you tell me about the trying to write?

Did you did you buy Save the Cat? Did you buy other screenplays and study that? Like what did you do? How did you figure out how to do it? I'd written one pilot once. I took a class. I really didn't like what I wrote and we'll never talk about it. Hard line there.

And then I wrote- You just brought it up though. What was it about? I know. I just tried to like, I was just playing with fire. I can't talk about it. It was about a part-time job I'd had that really, I thought was really funny. And we'll, in like 20 years, we'll have like a hangout and I'll tell you about it.

But it's actually really boring. So move on. Sounds nice. I wrote like a I was working on this like movie for a studio and it was and that was very like three act structure like sort of it. But you know, Save the Cat for me has always been this... I've always been very burdened by the... I've always been very angry and felt very rebellious against that because I'm like,

well, it's not a checkbox thing. But I do think it's a helpful tool to check your work. But I don't think it should ever come from there. But no, I was... So I was writing this kind of three act structure thing that was supposed to be this big thing. And then I went away and wrote another film that was like this sort of queer horror thing that was also a feature but very small. And then Sorry Baby was sort of my my third time writing a feature. So by the time I got to Sorry Baby, I was time writing a feature. So by the time I got to Sorry Baby, I was, it was sort of like, rejection is my lifestyle.

So I'm just going to write what I want to write. Like I just had been rejected for like 10 years, like honestly with like acting, and I'd gotten certain things, but there's so much rejection that at some point the pain of not writing the thing I desperately want to write overtook the sort of comfort in not writing it. So Sorry Baby was sort of my fuck the world, no one wants this, like I'm just going to write the thing I want to write and maybe just write it to write it. But yeah, structurally it was, like I think I only could write it once I figured out how time worked and how the pieces of the film came together because I knew I wanted it to exist over a certain amount of

years and have these threads through the years that only this one character can feel and see and we get led into what those threads are. But yeah, the process of writing, I keep looking for the notebook I had at that time because I feel like I was very weird about time. It's like you write this time, you write this time, you stretch here. Like I was, I was doing some weird stuff, but it was, it was good. It was like time with myself. I love that nonlinear approach that you take in the movie.

And I, there are times when I'm, I've seen the film twice now and seeing it there, you're welcome. There are times when I'm, I've seen the film twice now and seeing it there. Thank you. You're welcome. Um, where I know where I am in the timeline. And then there are times where I feel like I'm slipping in the timeline and I don't always know where I am. And you don't use typical tricks of shifting to black and white or putting a sepia tone on what could be perceived as like a flashback or an earlier stage in the character's life.

Can you kind of talk about how you made decisions like that and how comfortable you were leaving the viewer uncomfortable with some of those things? Yeah, I was also feeling very like allergic to sepia-toned past vibe. Like I was in the color, especially I was like, this can't be too pretty. Like I just, I don't want it to feel like, the only thing we really shifted color wise in the color was like the jury scene. I really wanted it to feel like sticky hot summer and we had shot in the winter,

but that was really actually sort of mild shifts cause we had so much light. We just had to make the light a different color. But yeah, I think like the structure of the film is really like flashbacks aren't actually happening. It's like we are in present day then we go back four years and then work our way back to the present skipping over the one we missed. The reason I started the film how I did was because I really wanted it to be very clear

that the film is about this friendship and these are the two characters we are and these are the two characters we are falling in love with and that the film will give you insight into. And it felt important to me that we didn't see the traumatic thing happen at the beginning because I didn't want that to color how we were able to see Agnes. I wanted us to meet her as she is,

as we would meet her, and then go back and uncover sort of how we got to this point and why this friendship feels so deep and strong. And it's sort of the reason why the film exists is for the scene in the bathtub when Agnes is telling Liddy what happened and Liddy holds that information so beautifully. And the film is really meant to be about these milestones and the friendships of starting with this sort of visit with so much love and joy, but also a little mystery and discomfort about what sort of, where they come from

and why they're here like this. It just felt like the natural place to start. And I mean, it's also bookended by like, Lydia comes in and makes this announcement. And then at the end of the film, we get this sort of manifestation of the announcement. It felt like the right container. I feel like people keep asking you

about balancing the tone of this movie. So I have kind of a question about that, that I picked up on the second time I watched it, which is when your character is with other people in the film, there is like a warmth and often sense of humor and joke. Not always, but mostly. Even in dark times in the story. And when your character is alone and contemplative,

it's a completely different kind of, it feels like a different kind of a movie. It is a pure, it's like a cerebral drama, an emotional drama. I don't know if you, were you thinking of it in that way? That was kind of what I wanted to know. Did you see there being like a, you know, a bifurcation between the tones based on what was happening with your

character? Yeah, I mean, I think I'm kind of because I've been asked the question about like humor in the film so much, I feel like I have a theory. And most of it was quite intuitive, honestly, about like what when we should laugh, it just felt right certain at certain moments but I think there's like laughter sometimes because Agnes is I've been humbled to discover quite awkward people are saying she's awkward and I'm like heard and humbled and I think her she's very blunt and not afraid of silence and that is comedic because it's uncomfortable and she is not afraid of silence and that is comedic because it's uncomfortable and she is not afraid of sitting in discomfort in a group. So that I think is a source of

comedy. I think a source of laughter that I don't think is like humor but it is sort of is as Agnes and Liddy's like joyful friendship together makes us feel a part of it and there's sort there's this euphoric joy there. And then also there's a more heightened humor that is the writer telling you to laugh because we're pointing at someone who's doing something weird and we're allowed to make fun of that person, like the doctor, for instance.

So there's laughs in that because we are pointing the, the movie is being like, this guy sucks. And that is a relief and funny. I agree, like, when Agnes is alone, it's like, genuinely not funny. And it's like three colors blue vibes. Like, it's a woman alone, like trying to make sense of the world.

And her confronting the world is where humor exists because she's in such a different state than the rest confronting the world is where humor exists because she's in such a different state than the rest of the world and that juxtaposition is bizarre and potentially funny. Yeah, it really struck me in the scene where you cut to yourself on the toilet and then go to start putting the thesis up on the window. Which I thought was like, that's a scene you maybe wouldn't find in a more conventional version of this story,

where we're sitting with you for minutes across minutes, no dialogue, trying to understand what you were thinking, how you were feeling, what decisions you're making in that, which I just thought was a very, very cool and interesting choice. Thank you. Thanks. It took a lot of practicing getting the papers on the window in the same order. It was very neat. It was like 2am and they were like, one, two, three, four, five to get. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I can do that. It was an interesting papers on the window. But you know, then we cut to the cat meowing.

So it's kind of like, we get a little something, a little joy. I wanna ask you an independent film question. God, here we go. Did you have to go and like sell the movie to finance ears? Yes. Can you talk about that experience? Well, luckily my producers are very, very smart

and didn't send me to, like they're very thoughtful and smart and have a lot of wonderful financiers that they've worked with before. So I did very deliberate meetings. It's really interesting. It was my first time having to explain the movie in a way that felt digestible. I was very stressed out because I'd never really done a pitch meeting,

anything like that where I had to display my personality in a way that was nice, and palatable. So that was interesting. I made a specific lookbook sort of pitch deck or something for the financier meetings that we sent the script with and and that piece was interesting because I had my own private lookbook, which was like Double Life of Veronique and like things that everyone was like, we don't understand why this is your reference. And I'm like, I swear, like there's something.

And this was a lookbook that was like, do you know Fargo? Like some Claire Denis, but like let the sunshine in Claire Denis. Like it was very it was much more commercial, you know, and and. The thing it's hard to explain something before you do it, like I was kind of making a case for. I wanted to be a beautiful film that feels like an art house film and also is funny and having to be like Juno plus. Margaret Kenneth Wonergan I swear like there's something that will work and people are just we luckily got people

who sort of didn't really bat an eye at me at me wanting to be in it and asked really good questions about why I wanted to direct it. And it was a really new journey. I mean, every part of making this film has been like totally new. I'm like, oh, we do this next? Like completely shocking. But no, it was an interesting experience for sure.

Related to that, did you anticipate writing such a personal piece and then having to like basically sell it through the entirety of its lifespan, going into movie theaters and having to talk about this thing? That must be very strange. No, I didn't know. I didn't really know it would happen like this. I think it's good I didn't know. really know what would happen like this. I think it's good I didn't know. And the one thing that lets me sort of sleep at night if you will is that I did make the

movie I wanted to make so that allows me to feel really glad that that's this is a movie that's that people are gonna get to. But no, it's a really, I mean, directing and acting and writing the film means that most of the press you do is by yourself, which is, I didn't expect, I didn't think of. And when I have Naomi and Lucas around me, I find it to be much easier. But I mean, this is going really well though. So I don't mean this. I mean, I don't feel like it's mean, this is going really well though. So I don't mean this. I mean, just- I don't feel like-

It's a really interesting thing. I think there's a lot of curiosity around what parts are my life and what parts aren't. And you know, the dream is you sort of get to make a film, put it out, then people talk about it, how they want to talk about it. And you sort of never appear anywhere. Like you just get to sort of release it

and then let people take what they want. But that's not the realistic thing of wanting people to also see the movie. Like I have to also, I want people to feel invited to see the film. So it's a journey though. Press is interesting. Yeah, I talk to a lot of directors on the show and a lot of times they'll be like, this is a

deeply personal work for me, but it's about aliens and like a war in space. And there's so much like allegory and metaphor that people like the press is trying to unpack about a project. But when the movie is like almost being marketed to you you as a very personal story, an intimate story, then invariably, I'm sure you have to find yourself constantly confronting people asking you things you don't want to talk about all day every day. Which I find that just a bit strange, but it must be a thousand times more strange for you.

It is strange. I mean, it's also like, well, we're just meeting and you're asking me that. But am I asking you that? Like, damn. Yeah. But I think it's filmmakers find like I look around and I realize that people have found very creative ways to hide themselves in their films. And I had like this one really smart filmmaker tell me once like, I just swapped the gender and no one ever asked me anything. And I'm like, ha ha, that's too funny. But yeah, it is kind of draining to talk about,

but I do love the film and I love talking about the film and I like when it can get kind of filmakery. I like to nerd out a bit with why I did certain things. There's versions of it that are really joyful of talking about the film. And also, people are writing about the film because they feel moved by it. So it's like, well, that's not so bad. People want to talk to me because they want to ask questions, and that is inherently like a beautiful idea. I was thinking about this recently because I have a friend who published a memoir a few years ago

that a very specific, complicated event in their life, and then he is just now publishing his first novel. And he was using it as like a way to figure out almost like how to write a book. Yeah. And so I was thinking about that in regards to you too and sort of like do you see yourself? Kind of permanently as a filmmaker like is this your vocation now was this just the right thing for the right time in your life How do you see in the aftermath of sorry, baby? I mean you're gonna have to pry it out of my cold dead hand if you want to take away making films for me because I'm addicted and I'm obsessed

and I don't even know like what that even means, but I feel so excited about what could happen next and I think making this film as my first film is completely right and it feels really cosmic in a few ways. And also I do look forward to the sort of like, it's a very personal film and it being like an alien film, like you said. Like I look forward to seeing how to move through personal

to a different energy of film. But knowing how much work it takes to make a movie now, it really has to be like, you have to be completely obsessed with what you're working on. And like, I look forward to feeling obsessed like that again and there's this weird grief of making the movie is over and I'm like well fuck that was cool I'd love to make a movie again because that was like way too cool to be real I can't even believe it's a real job it's almost like funny how awesome it is

Did you have you already started doing whatever would come next? I don't know How do you know listen I feel quite exposed like mm-hmm I am sharing this thing and it's being released from me and given to others, to judges they please. And when I was writing this film, I feel like I was banging on a box of like, let me out. Like, is anyone listening? And now all I want is my box again.

So it's a bit of a like Sisyphus thing of like, I want what I don't have. I want the privacy of writing and no one knowing and the secrecy of crafting something alone, which is when I was doing that, all I wanted was to just make something in community. So I miss the thing and I'm excited to go back to my private zone.

What about the sort of, it sounded like the feeling of motivation you were getting after being told no all those times in the lead up to writing this movie. Like that's over now, at least for now, like you won prizes for this movie. You know, this is an acclaimed debut feature film. So can you- You won prizes for this movie. I won a big teddy bear for the movie.

That's true. That's true. More than that. More than that. But can, like, do you ever, do you think about how do I conjure the requisite motivation to be underestimated and to show them just the true nature of my creativity? Yeah, I mean, I haven't really felt like any sort of arrival at anything. I, there's so much to say in the world that I feel like I just got to say a little thing. And it's like, well, if you want to hear more, I have a lot to say. little thing. And it's like, well, if you want to hear more, I have a lot to say. But no, I think it. You know, I know one knows who I am.

I made a very small film. It's coming out the same weekend as F1. Like, I do wonder, like I tell there's no like, like. I'm also going to be mad by how much I'm saying like, you'll cut them all out, right? No. You won't. Okay, then I'll work on it privately right now. Please don't censor. I it's a weird thing. I don't understand who the film is reaching. I get a sense of it when I'm at a screening, but No, I I also think people Sometimes want you to make the thing they've seen you make like

Make comedy videos. No one wanted me to make a movie they were like we don't want to do that we want you to make like a a Version of comedy videos that makes everyone more money. Not my people, but people I meet with. Making another movie is about starting from scratch and making the kind of movie you haven't made yet. It's almost like doing a whole new thing. You understand some things about making a film,

but other things because it's a different film are completely new, and it's almost like you have to make your first film again. And so it never feels like any, it hasn't, I haven't felt like any sort of arrival or like understanding of how to do this. It doesn't feel easy or anything. Do you feel like any pressure to capitalize this and make more money? That's something I'm always interested in with independent filmmakers. Like, do I have to scrape and claw?

So many filmmakers that are in the position that you're in at this exact moment would like, at least in the last 10 years, like take a Jurassic Park movie, you know what I mean? And just be like, yeah, I'm porting over my Sundance success to join a huge franchise. I'm not suggesting you're gonna do that, but I think a lot of times that's informed

by I was broke till I was 37 and now I need to like buy a house if I want to have a family, that sort of thing. You know what I mean? Totally. It's weird how money works. It's weird how you can make a film like this and it takes five years every day of your life and then you do something for one day and it makes like five times as much. I don't, it's very interesting.

Are you a professional assassin or something? What's that other thing you're referring to? Money than that. No, like seriously sounding totally scary as I'm saying that. No, I think although I would love to, I feel a bit spoiled in a way that like, honestly, my film got, it was bought at Sundance for, and I don't know if I'm allowed to say the amount, but like much more than it was made for. And that's very rare.

And you know, I was on a TV show a few years ago, and that has been carrying me through, like the money I made on that has been carrying me through making this film. And- You're good on that TV show. I watched making this film. And you're good on that TV show. I watched that TV show. Billions. Yeah, that was good.

Thank you. Thank you. I was a genius on the show. I remember every word I said before the table because I didn't know what anything meant. And then I one time watched a video of someone doing like data, like doing day trading to just see how their fingers moved on the computer. I seriously can't believe I got that part. Bless up. I bought it. It worked.

Thank you. But yeah, I think I feel kind of spoiled that I got to make something in a very uncompromised way. And I got to do that because I was on a big TV show and could spend those years making it the way I wanted to and didn't have to trade vision for money. And I feel wary of, you know, I don't want to do something I don't love. But life is, you know, expensive. So I do, I have questions about that. So you will continue to kill is what you're saying.

I will kill and I will be in Jurassic Park once they invite me. And direct it and write it. It sounds great. I look forward to that. I felt so bad. I actually cannot fathom that. But they have one out now.

And so that is probably the one that they should have made because they did. I watched Jurassic Park recently, the first one, and I was like, this is a really good movie with the orb, the golden amber stuff. I was like, I get this. This is cool. I get why people like this. Yeah. The first one is great.

Everything after that, you know, debatable. I don't know because I have not seen it yet, but I will due to what we're talking about. You have a lot of research to do before you get that gig. I wish you well. Ava, we end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers... It's over? It's about to be. Well, I mean, if you want to keep going, we can, but I feel like I'm boring you.

I'm getting you into like meta-textual questions now and you know, you're like, got to think about them and think about your life. Oh my God. I ain't no meta-textual piece. All good. I'm happy. We do end every episode of this show by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they have seen.

And it does seem like you watch a lot of movies. I mean, I might need my phone. Oh. Are you going to Letterbox? What are you doing? Yeah. Great. No, I fucking love Letterbox.

Well, I don't know if I want to say that. Say what? Okay. I'll say this. Like two days ago, I saw 28 years later in the theater. It's so motherfucking good. And I cried in a way that I have not cried at a movie in since. Twisters. Make me cry a lot.

And that movie is so good. Jodie Comer is so good. And I think it's Aaron Taylor. Well, Johnson, I want to say that's correct. That's work to date, and he's very good in it. And I was very moved that's correct. That's work to date and he's very good in it and I was very moved by The story and Many of the visuals and I liked the score

I thought it was sick and I liked that they weren't apologetic Oh sinners too. Okay since sinners I didn't cry it sinners, but I felt a lot of stuff So I guess that's all I have to say. Those are my two favorite movies of the year. So good on you. They're so good. Yeah, they're both so good. And mine. And yours, yes.

Well, I wasn't gonna say that to your face. Right, well, don't mind it. I will definitely pry and ask if it is. No, it is, it is. I mean, honestly, Sinners got me good. And I didn't even know anything going into it, which was cool. It's the best way to see it.

And basically everything. You're a person of taste. I wanna say- You think? Because I said 28 years later in Sinners, which are the two top movies of the whole entire year. Well, you know, the truth is the truth. That's how I feel about these things.

And I agree with the people. The people are right, and you're right. Congratulations on your first film. I think it's really good, and I can't wait to see and you're right. Congratulations on your first film. I think it's really good and I can't wait to see what you do next. Thank you. Thank you so much. This was so nice. Thanks, Ava Victor.

Thanks to CR. Thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on this episode. We'll see you later this week for a very patriotic episode of 25 for 25. Number 16 should be fun. We'll see you then.