The Daily Beast Podcast - A Deep Dive Into The Way Trump Talks—and Why It Works

Episode Date: September 4, 2022

Donald Trump’s way of speaking is hard to mistake for anyone else’s. On this bonus episode of The New Abnormal, video essayist Evan Puschak, owner of the 3M subscriber YouTube channel Nerdwriter1 and author of “Escape Into Meaning”, joins Molly Jong-Fast to break down how the former president and reality show star came to speak how he does, and the one thing that he doesn’t do while speaking that makes the way he talks so effective. Plus! Molly and Evan discuss whether or not Trump is intentionally speaking this way to manipulate. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Molly Zhang Fast, no relationship to Kim Jong-un. I'm a left-wing pundant and a writer at the Atlantic Invo. And I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart, conversations with the wisest and funniest and funniest people in science and media and politics that help make what's happening today clearer. Our world has been turned upside down, and on the new abnormal, we'll talk about the people who got us into this mess and how we'll hopefully get ourselves out of it. Hello, and welcome to another Sunday bonus episode of the new abnormal, and we thank you so much for being here. Today we have an extra special guest, and this one I could not be more excited about because he's one of my favorite YouTubers. It's, of course, the nerd writer, Evan Pushak, who if you're not familiar with him, he makes some of the smartest video essays on YouTube.

And I know some of you may be thinking that that's a double negative, but you would be wrong, because you're not. because he writes about everything possible from culture to politics and does these amazing, amazing video presentations of them on YouTube. And they really are some of the most thought-provoking stuff out there. And the great news is he has a new book called Escape Into Meaning, essays on Superman, Public Benches, and other obsessions. And we're going to talk to him all about that today. But first, let's have some fun.

Are you guys ready to listen to some clips? Yeah, we are. Yes, Molly is too. Molly is too. Yes, let's go. Okay, one Lauren Boberg does not bring in the best thoughts to the congressional body. She has a thought about what people are going to college for. How the heck can Joe Biden call America First Conservatives a threat to democracy with a straight face and a dry diaper?

He's the one who has allowed millions to invade our southern border. He's the one who is robbing, hardworking Americans to pay for Karen's daughter's degree in lessee. band dance theory. Is that a thing? No, it's not a thing. The only thing it is is it's going to be the name of like 12 records that come out that are really good dance music for me to go out to. Yes, absolutely.

Yeah. I mean, she just sucks. I mean, I could say something funny about her, but, oh. Congratulations, Republicans. It's part of the job. It's part of the job. Are you supposed to do that? Don't do that, Molly.

I'm too tired. I don't know. I mean, she sucks. She's so stupid. I mean, you could say, like, she also, you know, I mean, I didn't go to college, so I'm not one to talk, but she also did not go to college, so college could be anything to her. Well, so neither of you knows anything about lesbian dance theory. Exactly. And you both should just not be talking about it.

That's right. I keep lesbian dance theory far from my mouth. Yes, absolutely. The best thing about this is you just know how proud she was of coming up with that. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I think that was thought up in a room filled with people trying to think of things for her to say. Oh, probably. But she was proud.

Yeah, she was proud to deliver it. She thought it was just a killer line. Yes, true. That really, really made her point. And that's like you could just sense it. And it's just like, God, you are so fucking dumb. Sadly, this is not the only theory coming from a idiot on the right this week on this. So we now have one, Kimberly Gilfoyle.

Oh, the best. People that are working hard. enough of this nonsense. I mean, paying off loans for people that don't want, or they want to have some bizarre basket weaving, you know, a degree. And they want all of us, people watching across this country, hardworking men and women, to subsidize their laziness and their inability to even try to contribute to society.

You're engaged to Don Jr. I mean, inability to contribute to society is his middle name. Kimberly Gilfoyle went to UC Davis. For those who don't know. that's part of the University of California state school system. Heavily subsidized by the California government. Yeah, if you want to talk about someone who got her education subsidized by taxpayers, it's just amazing to me how many of these people went to state colleges and state universities

and are now outraged at the fact that somebody's education might be subsidized by what they imagine the working classes. is since I can assure you Kimberly Guilfoyle. Again, I think I've talked about this. If you talk about the hair and makeup people at Fox and what they thought of Kimberly Gilfoyle, you can get a sense of how Kimberly Gilfoyle interacts with the quote-unquote working people. Yeah, yeah. She just sucks.

I don't know any other way to say it. She's a horrible, horrible person. But I also think, like, you know, they're trying to make a case that paying for college is bad. and will make people lazy when in fact these are a lot of very privileged people. And I mean, I have to say, like, privileged people making the case that paying for, you know, that a tiny bit of debt forgiveness, a tiny, tiny bit is somehow bad is a pretty fucking disgusting. Yeah, they also, I mean, they have absolutely no idea how many people that they think are these working people who, I guess they think didn't go to college, actually went to college and have student loan debts.

And, you know, they've sort of created this alternate reality where anyone who has student loan debt, it means that they're not a functioning member of society, which is just outright. It's an outright lie. And it's also, it's an absolute slap in the face to the people that they are pretending to care about. Again, they're trying anything they can to stick on the wall. To you guys' point, though, I have never known a very dysfunctional person who's good at basket weaving. You can't even major in basket weaving. And if you could, good for them. Like, at least they have a skill.

It's just funny to hear you. I haven't heard that since like the 80s when it was like, that was what the joke you used to talk about like what the jocks in college were majoring in. Yeah. Everything with them is they have one joke for everything. It's their one joke. And Dennis Miller came up with it in 1989. Yeah. And he's still doing it today.

Right. Exactly. Yeah. It's amazing. Well, the stupid takes continue. Marjorie Taylor Green has quote-unquote thoughts. And they flood our country with many unfetted Afghans and that have turned out to be, there's a good number of them are known terrorists that's happened to.

Oh, yeah. What? So a bunch of rugs are terrorists? I think Afghans are rugs. Yeah. I don't even know what is happening with that. What is, what is she even? Where is this?

going. Yeah, I assume she means that a lot of, after we pulled out of Afghanistan, a lot of Afghans. Which was Trump's idea. Yes. I mean, that's, you know, point one. When Trump made a deal with the Taliban to get out of Afghanistan. Exactly. And Joe Biden followed through on the deal. So, you know, if you want to yell at someone, there's a couple people, but they tend to not do that. But it's also, I mean, she just, you know, again, it's fact free. She just states as a fact that millions of Afghans came here, and who are known terrorists since. Like, what the hell are you even talking about? Millions.

My favorite thing about her is, like, the always-be-projecting thing is that, you know, she's always talking about pedophiles, hangs out with a accused pedophile named Matt Gates. You know, always talking about terrorists. Well, really likes defending the domestic terrorists held in the January 6 jails. Yeah, except for the time right as it was happening when she was terrified. Yes, of course. So I have really great news for you guys That you're gonna learn on the air right now

We have a new reoccurring segment Really? Oh, I'm excited It's called Herschel Walker makes no sense Oh, okay Every damn day Persia Walker is still standing My bike is not bent So anyone can ride my bike

Like he's seen to have Chuck Schumer And Joe Biden riding in his bike Because he seemed to be voting for whatever they say Um Bike bending bike bending. This is the problem with this segment is. It's just like every time you're like,

what do you even say? The first time I heard this, I thought he was trying to reference that time that Joe Biden fell on his bike. That's what I thought too. But no, it's not even that. Like, that would have been dumb, but at least I would have been like,

all right, I see where you're going for. Like here, it's just some clumsy metaphor about... About bike bending. And riding your own bike. And I, yeah, he's just, look, it's tough because, I mean, you know, CTE is a real thing. I really do think he has it. You know, like I hesitate to even talk about him. But, I mean, also clearly he should not be anywhere near the wheels of power.

Yeah, no, he's not ready. Can you guys just imagine, though, like if he gets selected at him and Tommy Tuberville talking. Oh, my God. Yeah, Tommy Tuberville also had some brain. have going on. You'd think you took the whole thing of Timothy Leary's acid stash if you heard that conversation. By the way, I think you have to refer to Tuberville as coach. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. So now that we're past that, friend of the pod, Alan Dershowitz, I say that because he's clearly been on the pod when we had that cameo. Yes. Yes. You know, he has some thoughts on Mr.

Trump's stolen classified documents. All right. Now we turn to that photograph. I don't know about you, But if you, I mean, when you buy an apartment in New York, you see how everything is staged, it's phony when you go online. This photograph, unless these were stored like this, this is a staged photo. And it's attached by the Department of Justice. And it's proved one thing. I find, what? No, you're absolutely right. And it proves one thing that they are cherry picking, what they release.

This is classified material. And they're putting it out. And giving it to our enemies because they want to, because they want to. they can. On the other hand, they redact other material. This cherry-picking by the judge... I'll tell you what... I'll tell you what I find surprising. Assuming it's staged and Shurlick staged to me, they knew that by attaching that, that every single news organization, and we just showed it, we're just talking about it. It's the oldest trick in the book as a lawyer. It's the oldest trick. Then you juxtaposed that against Merrick Garland, who says it's going to be

even-handed. When they do something like a staged photo that they know it's going to be plastered all over the media. Is that even handed? No, it's not. And they know that the New York Times and CNN are going to show the picture without comment. Thank God for you, Greta. You at least have the willingness to say it may have been staged, maybe the Justice Department lawyers put it out there to be photographed. You have to look at everything the government and the Justice Department does critically. President Ray U.S. Rue was right. Trust, but verify. And this doesn't pass the verification test. They could have, they could have even filed that.

I can't listen to this again, Jesse. Yeah, no, no. I know. Please, Jesse, made it stop. I know. How are they both lawyers and pretending like this is a thing? Like, how many times do we see pictures with cops standing around, like, an apartment where you see, like, a bunch of guns and drugs laid out on a bed?

And they say, this is what we found when we came in the house. It's like nobody thinks all that stuff was sitting on the bed. It's like they collected all the stuff they found and they put it in one place to take a picture of it as evidence. And to show everyone, this is all the stuff. Like this is commonly done. Gretta van Susteren't, like I don't even, Dershowitz is just whatever. I mean, he was nice to Molly, so I'm going to let him off the hook here. He made Molly a nice birthday message.

They are dear friends. And he was paid for. They are dear friends who go to parties. dinners together. In Martha's Vineyard. No, we do not. Stop it. Stop it. I'm not going to go after him. You're the worst, Andy. Then I'll get mean text from

Molly again saying, why are you picking on my friend, Al? Hostile workplace. But Greta Van Sustern, I mean, are you fucking kidding me? You know exactly what they did here. You know exactly why they did it here. And you know that, of course,

it's staged. It's staged for a reason. Those GOP, watchers, the people that watch these shows, the only people she's going to pick up are going to be the O-A-N, Fox News, Newsmax crew. And so she's going for it. Yeah, I know. I mean, I don't think there's any more to it than that. I think she just knows where her bread is buttered and she thinks she's as good as Tucker Carlson, so she's going to go for it. No, I know. I know that's always the answer and it's the right answer. It's just mind-boggling to me

every time that someone would do that. I guess I'm just built different, Molly. Yeah, you're just built different. Evan Pusack is a YouTuber who goes by Nerd Rider 1, as well as the author of Escape Into Meaning, essays on Superman, public benches, and other obsessions. Welcome to New Abnormal, Evan. Thank you for having me.

Oh, we're so excited. You're our first YouTuber. Congratulations. I am very honored. You get a free sub. How, where, why did you decide to go into writing a book of essays discuss? Well, so I, as you said, I'm a YouTuber and I've been doing a show for about 11 years. A video essay, I know.

I know. And you're only 32 or something, right? 33 on the verge of 34. Jesse and I are 10 years older than you are. And you've been doing this since you're 22. Okay, continue. I know. It seems like a really long time.

But for that whole period, I was really sort of hyper-focused on making the show as visual as possible and finding subjects that really worked on YouTube. That meant over the years there were a bunch of things that I just didn't think really needed that visual aspect. And so I put them in the drawer. And then when I was approached about potentially writing a book, it was those ideas. a bunch of them I forgot about they weren't that good, but 11 of them were things that just wouldn't let me go, ideas that kind of turned into obsessions. I was lucky enough to explore those things in the format that I think they deserve to be. You write these YouTube essays, so you

have, you really do get to have, you know, real interaction with people, and then you have to sit down and write on the computer, which in my experience is less fun. How different are the two genres, and why is writing worse? Well, it's funny you say that because I sort of feel the opposite. No, that's not fair. You know, I didn't know before this process, but getting a year to do this and just being in my little room and my whole, by myself, tweaking sentences for hours, that is sort of my ideal work environment that I discovered last year.

And, you know, the difference is that there is a lot of technical stuff that I didn't have to worry about. I mean, doing the show on YouTube, I'm editing heavily and doing voiceover and stuff like that. And, you know, I love editing, but it can get very tedious and voiceover can get very tedious. And so just being able to not have that distance between my thoughts and the words was pretty nice. All right. You're wrong, but I'll allow it. But listen, listen, listen, the last essay in the book is called Write a Book. And it is all about a process of writing my first novel that wasn't good at all a decade ago. And how the intense gauntlet of self-loathing that that brought taught me so much about sort of, you know, the cycling of my own mood.

but it is not fun in an emotional way. You know, I say in that essay that the good days never outweigh the bad. It's at the most it's three good days to four bad days. And so it is really tough, but it is an environment that I like. Again, I don't understand. Evan, so before we started, I gave you the compliment that I started making video essays and YouTube's from watching your work. I've been watching for a lot of years.

One of the things I think has always been so impressive about you. And for the listeners who don't know, you'll discuss everything from movies to politics to just kind of anything. But what I love about your work is you see layers, no one else sees. I wanted to see if there's any tools, questions you do to analyze things, or is there really just how your brain works? The key thing is, first of all, I don't think that I do anything differently than anyone else. But what I am always trying to do is just identify the sensitivity in me that. that is ticking off something, that is making me react. So why?

Why is this movie drawing me in, immersing me? Why is this painting making me confused? Why don't I understand it? Is there more to understand? You know, so that's really the only tool I have. Obviously, I research a lot and I watch a lot and, and, you know, immerse myself in context. But, you know, really to find out what these things. things are doing, at least for me, it's just about looking inward, I think.

Tell us about the essays, one of the essays. A perfect example of that is one of my favorite essays is about public benches. And I sort of say in the essay that I have had more moments of genuine peace on public benches than anywhere else. And it's something that I've been doing for years. I live in cities. I like to go out and just sort of sit and observe. And people watch mostly. which I love to do. And, you know, it is a very calming thing for me. And I just started wondering, why is that? You know, what is it about that invisible piece of urban design that is so valuable to be? And so I started with that from the personal, basically, looking at what city architecture encourages you to do, which is move from point A to point B and really not consider what is

all around you. And sitting down on a bench kind of, removes you from the herd and allows you to, allows you to essentially have a different relationship with the city architecture. And that became really important during COVID, especially because, you know, I live in Barcelona. The only thing you could do in the months of the lockdown outside was sit on a bench. And so the necessity for public space and usable community space was really important. And that's where the essay essentially went.

It started personal. And then I started researching about the importance. of urban planning and public space and benches in that equation. And it took me out to a much broader topic. That is really the case for every piece in the book, whether it's about Lord of the Rings, which I'm obsessed with or cyberpunk or Superman or politics or public benches. So you made these amazing videos on like how Trump speaks,

how he answers questions. Our audience obviously is very political. Can you talk to us a little about what you saw there? That's another perfect example of when I made the first Trump video on how Trump answers a question years and years ago. I was kind of just interested in why this guy was connecting with people. And so I saw this question that he answered on Jimmy Kimmel, which he didn't really answer, but, you know, the way Trump speaks, he gave this two-minute response, not quite an answer. And I just started looking at the language that he was using. and I found a couple of patterns, you know, in the way that he organizes sentences to put certain words last, the way that he, you know, speaks at a very low reading level so that lots of people can understand.

I don't think those things are intentionally manipulated by him, but it is something that he instinctually does, I think, from a kind of huckstery position. And I just thought that was really fascinating. And so, again, just sort of looked at it and picked it apart piece by piece until I found some patterns and made the video about it. Wait, so you think he's not actually as stupid as he presents? No, I think he is. I think essentially that language, I think if there's one skill he has in communicating, it's the ability to barrel forward with language and words without stuttering, something that I do all the time when I'm speaking ex-steporaneously. it gives an illusion of confidence. That doesn't mean that he knows where he's going.

Right. There's that old analogy of you can write a novel like you're driving a car at night. You can't see your destination, but the headlights can show you 50 feet ahead of you. And that's enough to get you all the way there. I think Trump is probably like two or three words ahead of himself at all times, if that. For him, that's enough to sort of keep going and keep barreling forward. And then his language falls into these patterns of sort of emotional appeals that I think he probably just picked up from his upbringing or from his family or from his environment. I don't think it's necessarily something that he's doing intentionally from like 30,000 feet.

But clearly it works, you know, for him. Yeah. I think that the big issue with him that we, that people don't talk about enough is that he's charismatic. It's not that he's playing three-dimensional chess. It's just that charismatic candidates resonate better with the electorate. So, like, he's a racist and he's an idiot and he's this and he's that. But ultimately, at the end of the day, like, the failing here is that we just don't have charismatic enough candidates. Yeah.

I mean, he stands apart from a lot of the traditional candidates in that way. He's also funny. Right. He's funny in his warped way. Like you say, he is all these horrible things. but he talks like a lot of people, especially if you live in the New York area, he talks like a lot of people. A lot of people from Queens that you might know personally. It's just that he's got this awesome power as president that makes it scary.

Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure as much as like, I mean, sometimes when I've written about him, like, I've gone back to like find the transcription of things he says. And it's so hard to like find a quote because there's so much. much weird back talking and, you know, like the way he, he'll, it'll take him like, you know, a good two minutes to do, you know, not two minutes, but like 30 seconds of like sort of extra words to get an idea out. So you do feel like you want to edit him when you look at his speech pattern, which I do think is kind of, is kind of strange. But I do, I mean, I agree. Certainly something he did work for him in a way that it didn't work for Ted Cruz or for Mark The S&L joke was that he was constantly going on tangents, right? So it would just be from tangent to tangent to tangent to tangent. And he never makes an actual point. Like, he never makes a full complex point. But there is none of that off-putting flubbing and stuttering, which is one thing. And the second thing is that he's hitting emotional beats. Those draw out a theme and a tone that we perceive, even if the language is, that he's hitting emotional beats.

Right. Those draw out a theme and a tone that we perceive, even if the language is, itself and the logic isn't there. Thank you so much for joining us, Evan. I hope you'll come back. It was my pleasure. I'm honored to be your first YouTuber. On that note, we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking to smart folks from the Daily Beast and beyond

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