The Daily Beast Podcast - How Obama’s Presidency Kicked Off Today’s White Violence

Episode Date: July 2, 2023

Wesley Lowery, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and author of American Whitelash: A Changing Nation and the Cost of Progress, joins co-host Danielle Moodie in this bonus episode of The New Abnormal podcast to talk about the origins of this so-called “whitelash” happening in America today, and how Black Americans saw it coming long before anyone else. He touches on the Obama presidency’s role in this scary trend as well as the media’s role in it all, starting with how it covered Trump’s nativist “Ground Zero Mosque” fear-mongering he espoused in 2010. And as always, Danielle and Andy Levy kick off the episode by responding to clips of Republicans saying dumb things. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits pretty comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. Hello and welcome to another Sunday bonus edition of the new abnormal.

We thank you so much for being here. Today we have an extra special guest with Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Wesley Lowry, who joins us to talk about his new book, American White Lash, A Changing Nation, and the Cost of Progress. But first, let's have some fun. Are you guys ready to listen to some clips? Clips. That's about the energy this week. So this week, Joe Biden fumbled his words when talking about Vladimir Putin, and the Foxes, the five, of course, wanted to mock it,

but he got cover from an unlikely source one Jesse Waters. His heart stops. Is Kamala Harris the president? For a second, the president again. And that machine is what's keeping this country alive. And then he comes out and he confuses Iraq with Afghanistan. Just don't send Iraq $800 million. Whoops.

Uh-huh. First of all, the fact that this person was given the prime time slot is just beyond me. Like, they really just dig from the bottom of the barrel over at Fox. Andy, was he one of your friends? The dumbest person in cable news? No, he was not. I hope not. I hope he was not one of the people that you were like, you know, he used to be normal because I just can't imagine it.

I don't know if I ever told this story. When Red Eye ended, they had absolutely no idea what to do with me. And I had absolutely no idea what I was still doing there. And I remember meeting with someone, I think it was Meade Cooper, who has been in the news lately, because she's the one that fires all the people now. And she said, what shows would you like to be on? And I said, yeah, I could probably go on any show except Jesse Watersh. And she, like, looked at me, and she's like, why wouldn't you want to go on Jesse Waters' show?

And I, like, realized I shouldn't say because he's the dumbest person on cable news. So I just said, well, we just have different sensibilities. Brains being the sensibility. Yeah, brains being our biggest gap. Amazing. Everybody thought Trump brought us out of the era where we're going to be like, sir, you're gaffed. Now you can't be president.

It's like, oh, we're back to that. And then immediately this moron shows exactly how stupid that is that people confuse their words. The other thing is, I know they started that discussion about this CPAP machine. which is just such a weird, like, there are professional athletes who use CPAP machines. Mm-hmm. Like, a CPAP machine is not a sign of anything other than you have sleep apnea. And it's just funny to me that this is going to become a thing when, I mean, I'm not exaggerating. Like, literally, there are professional athletes, guys who are in better shape than 99.9% of the people in this country who have to use CPAP machines because they have sleep apnea.

It's not like a, you know, it's not a sign of anything. Andy, stop making sense. I know. It's just so weird to me. You know that logic does not play in this bastion of hopelessness. I mean America. I know. I got some news, too, that you know, it's a strong demographic for sleep apnea machines.

Fox News. The fact I'd go as far to say is I know four people who regularly watch Fox News and I know they all have it. So for me and my life, well, maybe Ann Sonodal, it's 100% of Fox News viewers. personally know, have one. Yeah. Also, there's, at least there used to be, I've watched it in a while, but there used to be a shit ton of ads. No, yeah, that too.

I was going to mention that. Yeah. I've definitely seen a ton of CPAP machine ads on there. Yeah. Or for tests for sleep apnea. Exactly. Exactly. All right.

To take a little bit of a turn, we have to always make sure that we see how insaneness party is going. And in our continued files on this section of the show of saying the quiet part loud we have here, Wisconsin's, state rep Chuck Wichgers, saying the quiet part loud on why they don't want access to birth control. Some of the religious leaders said that historically, back when the pill was being developed, that there were comments of predictions of social behaviors that might exist. And they learned that from other societies in real time when they made these comments.

And they said that it opens up the door to marital infidelity, and it did. And you can laugh and mock, but you're laughing and mocking, not me, but the people. All comments will be to the speaker. The government might force contraceptives upon married couples. That's happened in other countries. And so the government gets to have a role. They get to play Supreme Ruler. it increases a loss of respect for women that men get to do whatever they want and then women have to be able to control the natural reproductive course of the body nature has an intention and when you have that act the pregnancy naturally occurs that's nature doing what nature does and then the woman has to haunt her there's like a lot more but like i got to cut it there because it's just darning so much stupid i just want to get clear that i am laughing and mocking

you. Yeah. Yeah. And to be clear, since the audience might hear you're laughing during that, the body also laughed at him. I wish that there were standardized tests to become a politician. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, you people elect you, sure. But do you actually have functioning brain cells? Because what I realize about all of these quote unquote men, that want to stand before and talk about nature taking its course and say words like pregnancy. And they actually have absolutely no fucking idea how a woman's body works, how a uterus works, how anything works. Because these are the same people that like banned sex ed in schools.

Right. Right? Like, oh, how did you get pregnant? I don't know. I fell on her. I'm just so fucking like this stupidity. It's just like these people, they have full fucking jobs. that pay them money to be that dumb.

I just want to say that, you know, letting nature take its course is why people used to die at the age of like 32. Like all of medicine, the entire study of medicine is about not letting nature take its course. Fighting back against nature. And, you know, this is a dude. I don't know how old he is, but, you know. I mean, he was looking on the ear hair scale at like 12 inches of ear hair.

Yeah, I'm just going to say that, you know, 100 years ago, he probably wouldn't still be alive because we used to let nature take its course more than we do now. These people are just so dumb and they make dumb arguments and they make me feel dumber for listening to it. Actually, I guess Jesse does that. Yeah, I was going to say, I blame Jesse. I'm not, you know. Yes, yes. Like I always say, podcast producers are the most exploited member of the workforce. And yet again, you two are proving me right. You know, so that's fine. That's fine. This is what you call the Eric Adams line of defense. Okay. All right. So now we have one Rod DeSantis show favorite, and by that I mean, God help us, who I want to remind everyone as a governor of a state called Florida, which when I say the word Florida, you probably get some imagery of some headlines. Well, he visited San Francisco, and he couldn't believe what he saw.

Don't tell me it doesn't affect people's lives. I was just in San Francisco. I saw in 20 minutes on the ground people defecating on the sidewalk. I saw people using fentanyl. I saw people smoking crack right there in the open, right there on the street. It was a civilization in decay. And it was as a result of leftist ideology pursued leftist policies. So first of all, stay to fuck in your own state.

How about we should ban him from being able to travel, right? Because you should check out what is happening with drug use in your own goddamn state. Because you're so busy going around looking for wokeness and ketchup and refrigerators and on gas stoves. You don't know what the fuck is going on in Florida. Ain't nobody wants you in San Francisco. And first of all, who's looking at the lay of the land if you're able to get that close to drug use and defecation, right? Because somebody on your team should be fired. Like, shut the fuck up. He just lies. Like, he's just lies and spreads bullshit. And that's all this is.

I'm like, the drug use in Florida, mad high. Like, really, really high. Is Ronda Santas doing anything about it? No, he's banning books. Miss me with it. I would like to know how he knows people were doing fentanyl. Ah, good question, Andy. Good question. Like, did he talk to them? I kind of doubt it. Definitely not. Like, even smoking crack, like, there's a lot of things you can smoke in a pipe, a lot of different drugs. You don't know that was crack.

But, all right, fine. You want to say it was crack, fine. But fentanyl? How the hell do you know that people were doing fentanyl? You don't. You have absolutely no clue. I just, what a fucking loser. I just always think of, you know, like Andrew Callahan, who documents the underbelly of America. He did this, like, series when he got to Florida where he did some, like, and he's documented a lot of states.

But, like, the Florida episodes are like, I couldn't believe my eyes, the drugs these people were doing, like, things. I, who stays up to date on things. And like, what? And, like, people with Joker face tattoos on their face, the makeup, like, the dude should really walk around that state and get out of the Palm Beach fundraiser sometime. Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

I still, I just can't get over. I saw people doing fentanyl. What does that mean? Did they put on a patch in front of you? Did they take a pill? You don't know. Were they snorting a powder that you have no idea what it was? Like, it's just, I don't know how they just say this shit.

I mean, I do know, but I wish they would stop. Well, speaking of people we wish would stop. It's not a Sunday show without me bringing down the vote. with some Marjorie Taylor Green. You didn't bring it up, Jesse. I just want to let you know. This is my job description, is what I would say. So when not being confused about Apple TVs or doodling in notebooks,

pictures of Donald Trump looking muscular and hot with hearts around his head, she's busy being corny for guns. So let's hear her do that on Maine, as they say. I'm a big, hey, I'm a big fan of the Air 15. The great thing about it is that you get as many. bullets as you want. And if somebody's coming in your home to murder you or your children, guess what? You can have as many bullets as you need to defend yourself. And I think that's a big deal. What? The thing for the listener, too, to really take in is I've never seen her happier

than this clip. Like, she's smiling ear to ear, just rejoicing at the idea of getting to shoot someone. I'm just going to say it again. What? Yep, yep. Any gun can have as many rounds as you want? I mean, did she have some sort of magical magazine that holds unlimited bullets? Is she playing a video game on God mode? I don't even know what she means. There's no capacity issue.

Again, like, I know I'm harping on these technicalities, but I'm just so tired of the stupid. Like, imagine if she had to take a standardized test to get into, Congress. Like, imagine what her score would be. Well, I think if you just, if it was multiple choice and you just made one of the choices, the Jews. Oh, shit. Oh, Jesus. I think she would finish the test in record time. So there's that. Personally, I would just hope it's not one of those tests where you have to punch a hole for the answer, because we know what she would use the punch the hole through it.

And with that, we're done. Oh, my God. God, that was brutal. Folks, I am very happy to welcome to the new abnormal Pulitzer Prize winning journalist and author Wesley Laurie, who has a new book entitled American White Lash, a changing nation and the cost of progress. Wesley, one, congrats on the new book. You have summarized, oh, I don't know, I think every which way. that black Americans have been feeling for, I don't know, since the beginning of time. I want to start with the fact that whenever I have conversations with people about why we are in the current situation that we are in, why we are facing such a heightened white lash,

why there is a rise of white supremacist groups, why there is a rise of race-based violence. And I say, oh, it's because we had a black president. And that sent white Americans over a fucking cliff. People are like, no, there has to be another reason. Wesley, tell them why I'm right. Because you wrote a book about it. Well, look, I think that it's, there's two things here, right? We see the election of a black president.

And we see the drastic demographic change that's happening in our country because of immigration. And these two things are happening at the same time. in the same era, that our country is changing the immigration faster and more rapidly than it ever has before. We're in a post-civil rights era. We actually have a multiracial democracy, right, that all of this backlash remains in the context of people responding to the very idea of a multiracial democracy, what it is, and whether or not we should have it. And we have powerful political figures who are willing to stoke these fears, who are willing to gain political power by aggravating and frustrating and upsetting our majority white American electorate,

convincing them that they've lost their country, and they have to stand up and get it back. And so what we've seen in this era is just a very clear response that has, historical precedent. We've seen this moment before. We've seen this moment following the abolition of slavery, emancipation, and reconstruction. We've seen moments similar to this following the civil rights movement, the rise of conservative, reactionary politics that are racialized and that demonize people who are different and suggests that there's something inherently American being lost by the way that the country is changing. And I love the fact that you said essentially American that is being lost because of the

perception that there is only one way to be an American, which is to be a white American, that when we had our first black president, the first thing that they did was what? Question his citizenship. Question his faith. You know, I remember when former First Lady Michelle Obama said that she was proud of her country for the very first time. And the backlash, the white lash to that statement, the statement that many black people,

indigenous people and people of color had felt in that moment, oh my God, I can't believe we arrived at this place where we could have this very racist, very violent country elect a black man to be president of the United States. The problem that I see, and I saw it when Barack Obama was elected, which was the rush and the desire to say, that we were now post-racial, that look at us, kumbaya, we had finally made it. And the media perpetuated that lie while not talking about the rise in white aggression,

the rise in white violence at the same time. You talk in your book about the media's complicity, the media not naming the things that are, not naming bigotry and racism for what it is, looking for any other way. looking to contort themselves in any other way and tell us, oh, no, no, it's not what you see. Don't believe your lying eyes. Believe what we are telling you. And so I ask you, how should the media have discussed the Obama presidency, his two terms, in the context of what we knew to be true? Is that like me, many of black people in this country were holding their breath for eight years,

hoping to God he wouldn't be assassinated? That was exactly what I was about to say, that black Americans were able, by and large, because you can always find someone to say whatever, right? But by and large, black Americans were willing and able to hold these truths, right? Not to underplay the significance of the Obama election. No, no, no, no, no. They believe this was important and significant and historical, a moment of pride and achievement. But we're very well aware that this was going to come with some level of backlash.

And we're very attuned to it. That you see what ends up happening is the polling shows that white American, at the time when Barack Obama's elected, they were much more likely to tell pollsters that they believed America had made much more progress racially than black Americans were. They wanted to be able to say, we've closed this chapter, we've closed this door, we've moved on. And instead, what we saw was how the election of a black president prompted. additional prejudice to come out. It allowed people, gave people permission to structure to express this. You saw the ways that the Obama administration was attacked. And that's not to say that there were not fair critiques of the Obama administration. There's not to say there were not critiques by black journalists and activists and academics of the Obama administration were. Right? There are many

critiques of Obama. But what is true is that having a black presidency created space and prompted a reaction. opposition to that black president that was very naked in its racialized and racist appeals. And the media was unwilling to honestly grapple with what was happening and remains to this day in some cases unwilling to tell the truth about what happened and what happened previously. It's pretty clear. It's pretty settled, right? But you look at it, I was reminded of this today. You look at the rise of Donald Trump and what do we know about Donald Trump. Donald Trump's first major political issue was the quote unquote ground zero mosque, was not a mosque, was not at ground zero. It was a made-up reactionary conservative controversy to play to Islamophobia and xenophobia at a post-9-11 world. He enters a scene more nationally leading the charge that argues that our first black president is not really an American,

made up fabricated accusations of him being born not in the country or him being a secret Muslim. He enters the presidential race. The key plank of his presidential platform is that he's going to build a wall to prevent Hispanic immigrants from entering the country. He promises to ban all Muslims from entering the country. And in fact, takes steps to do that once he has elected president, that this was a nakedly nativist political. candidate. And that is not opinion. That's not me being hyperbolic. It's not even me leveling

of criticism. It's just an accurate description of who this politician was, what his policies were, how he behaved. And yet, so many of our media were so unwilling to just use accurate language to describe true things. One, and second, unwilling to accept that that was true of the world. What we saw after Donald Trump was elected, we saw people across the country, members of media, organizations across the country, convincing themselves, there had to be some mysterious answer that they didn't understand the country because they didn't get it. It's like, no, this is like really, really clear. And very simple.

Yeah. And yet there was this desire to not see what was in front of us because people did not want to believe in the America as it exists. They wanted to believe in this made-up America they had in their head. It was why there was this obsession with the so-called Obama to Trump. voter, this idea that, well, but it can't be racism because a bunch of these people voted for Barack Obama, which speaks to how poorly understood the concepts of prejudice are by members of our media. You mean to tell me that at a time when there's massive Hispanic immigration,

someone couldn't vote for a black guy but be racist against those immigrants. You need to tell me at a time in a post-9-11 world where there was a rise in ISIS attacks that someone could not be Islamophobic and have unreasonable bigoted fears about Muslims and have voted for Barack Obama. The reality was to see racism and racial prejudice as this binary in this way that because someone had a black friend named Barack Obama who they voted for, therefore prejudice could not be at the core of their behavior now just presents a complete ignorance to how prejudice works, first of all. But second, complete ignorance, even how voting behavior works, that over an eight-year period, someone might not have been radicalized or their views might have changed or they might not have.

It's just very silly that someone's vote in 2008 would tell you anything about their vote in 2016 when we know that people's lives really shift and change over that time. And so again, I think that one of the keys to this, though, is we have to have liberal institutions. And when I say liberal institutions that just mean like classically liberal, like institutions that believe in democracy and multivation democracy that are willing to grapple with reality and that when we see the rise of a nationalist movement are not spending all of our time searching for alternative explanations when there's a clear and obvious explanation. So it's not to say that we don't color and the nuances and the grays and the complexities, but our inability to just acknowledge the world as it is, I think,

really got in the way of our institutions doing what they're supposed to do, which is protect and defend our democracy. But you know what's funny is because when you say that looking for any other reason gets in the way, it not only gets in the way of us actually doing the work of minimizing and doing away with said problem of white supremacy in this country and white domestic terrorism and violence, I grapple with the idea if that is the actual. desire that this country has. Because if you spend all of your time denying what is literally being reflected back to you in the mirror and looking for any other way except directly in front of you at what the cause is, it begs the question as to whether or not you fundamentally, regardless

of party, regardless of designation, actually believe in the founding principle of this nation. because if you did, we would have a media, Wesley, that tells the truth. Because the point of journalism is to create an educated citizenry. The point of power, however, is to make sure that you have a suppressed and oppressed class. And so I wonder, do you think that it is this lack of grappling that the media had with being able to really part and parcel what was happening, really be able to hold these paradoxical ideas? or is it this is how we continue to hold up certain institutions that fundamentally will protect our whiteness

and therefore protect our power? Well, and I think that it can be that second thing and be unthinking, right? What is true is that most of our institutions and are, or at least unthinking at the individual alone, that institutional momentum and inertia happens through a bunch of people making small decisions that all cut in the same direction.

And it doesn't even necessarily, require any type of coordination or explicitly stated plan. But what's also true is that when you look at a lot of our institutions, the institutions themselves were not founded to support advance or defend multiracial democracy because these institutions were founded prior to multiracial democracy. And so if you look at a media ecosystem that was founded prior to the existence of multiracial democracy. It's founding principles, the way it thinks and operates and moves. All of those things are untethered from as a fundamental cornerstone, the idea of multiracial democracy being

not up for a debate. What does it look like if we place that at the center? Our job as thoughtful, liberal-minded participants in a democracy in a free society. that, okay, let's say that what's non-negotiable is that this is a multiracial society, a multiracial democracy, and everything else comes down from there, that would be a fundamental shift for our institutions. That's not where they began and what they started, right? So, for example, right, if you are an organization that believes foundation foundationally in a multiracial democracy, how would that change, how you cover, how you interview,

how you interact people who, through their rhetoric and policies would undermine and undo it, versus a world where it's up for debate, right? And I think that that speaks to, I think a lot of our institutions did not see it as foundational to their job and their roles to defend our multiracial democracy in this moment, because they don't actually see multiracial democracy in their core, I guess, this isn't even knowing or thinking, they don't see it as vital to their identities as liberal institutions. And I think that that exposed, or I think that was at the core of a lot of the failings of those institutions to do the things that I think many people wanted them to do. They saw issues that had two sides that many people believed should not have two sides

in the society and the world that we want to build. One of the pieces of White Lash that I see and have seen as a former educator and somebody that worked in education policy is the way that the right is gutting our public education system, the way that they are attacking critical thought, the way that they are erasing contributions of anyone that is not white, that is not cis,

that is not hetero, that is not male. The way that in order to really uphold this white supremacy and the ideologies wrapped around it, that you really have to uphold this lie. And so in order to uphold the lie, you can't have people that have free thought. So can you speak to how this push by the quote unquote conservative movement at this time is truly aligned with the white lash

in terms of violence that we see, that how this kind of miseducation, under education, is necessary for the furthering of their movement. Well, you know this as well as anyone that so much of our populace, so much of our country, lacks very basic foundational understandings of our history, right? That many of us believe things that are just not true about where this country came from, how it operated, and what the past was like, that we wake up, and we look around and we see a world and we are divorced from any understanding of how that world came to be.

And I think it's one of the reasons we see classrooms, we see books, we see these spaces, as major battlegrounds of how the story of America is told, because people understand that they control the story, they control the context. They can manipulate how people respond to the world around them. And so what we see in this moment, and this is not unlike other moments, this is not unlike the 20s during the rise of the clam.

It's not unlike the 60s in the reactionary response to the civil rights movement, right? What we see in these moments is a desire to rid the public sphere and the public conversation from accurate depictions of what our history was that happened to offend many white Americans. We see this right now with the demagoguing around the ideas of, say, critical race theory or 1619 project or the books that are being banned. We see this with the reactionary responses to trans people asserted in their rights, right? this idea that let us lock down and remove the ability for these persecuted and oppressed minority groups to tell the truth as a means of not having to grapple with those truths. And I just think we've seen it apply time and time and time again. Wesley, I could talk to you all day.

This has been an incredible conversation. Folks, the book is White Lash, a changing nation and the cost. of progress that is out now. I appreciate you so much and thank you for making the time for the new abnormal and just the continued work that you do to wake us all the fuck up. I appreciate it. Of course. Anytime. It's good seeing you, Danielle. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going. This podcast is a Daily Beast production with production by Jesse Cannon and Seamus Calder.

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