The Dr. John Delony Show - My Husband Loses It After 10 Minutes With The Kids

Episode Date: April 18, 2025

On today’s episode, we hear about: ·      A wife trying to help her husband learn to handle their kids on his own ·      A father unsure how to improve his relationship with his young daughter ·      A woman resentful of her dad’s hypocritical behavior Next Steps: 📞 Ask John a question! Call 844-693-3291 or send us a message. 📚 Building a Non-Anxious Life 📝 Anxiety Test  📚 Own Your Past, Change Your Future  ❓ Questions for Humans Conversation Cards  💭 John's Free Guided Meditation  🤘🏼 The Dr. John Delony Show Merch Connect With Our Sponsors: 🌱 Get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp. 🔴 Get 15% off with code DELONY at Bon Charge. 🌿 Get up to 40% off with code DELONY at Cozy Earth.  🔒 Get 20% off when you join DeleteMe. 😇 Go to Hallow for a 90-day free trial. 💤 Visit Helix Sleep for special offers! 🥤 Get 20% off with code DELONY at Organifi.  💪 Get 25% off your order at Thorne.  🏋️ Go to Trainwell to get started! Explore More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights   🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💡 The Rachel Cruze Show 💰 George Kamel 🪑 Front Row Seat with Ken Coleman 📈 EntreLeadership   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What's up? What's up? Listen, me and Dave Ramsey are hitting the road and coming to a city near you, bringing our shows about life, money, and relationships to your town. It's almost here, so don't wait. Grab your tickets for this amazing night at ramsysolutions.com slash tour. How can I help my husband better manage our kids? He's not that awful with the babies, but once they hit the toddler age. He's not that awful. He's only medium, he's medium awful with the babies. He's full awful with the babies. What's going on? What's going on?

What's going on? This is John with the Dr. John Delaney show, taking your calls on your relationships and your marriages and your mental and emotional health, whatever you got going on in your life. The good stuff, the challenging stuff, the dark stuff. Here's my promise. I'll sit with you. For the last two decades plus, I've been sitting with hurting people trying to figure out what's the next right move, and I'll sit with you for the last two decades plus I've been sitting with hurting people trying to figure out What's the next right move and I'll sit with you. I'd love to have you on the show and

Show goes out all over the world. We've got Gajillions and gajillions of listeners and watchers. I'd love to have you that sounds gross. I'm a watcher people who view the show who listen to the show, consume the show. I'd love to have you on the show. Sometimes just a moment of bravery to reach out ends up helping a whole lot of people. Go to John Deloney, D-E-L-O-N-Y, JohnDeloney.com slash ask A-S ASK and fill out the form and it will go to Kelly and Taylor and they'll see if they can pick you for the show. All right, let's go out to Kansas City, Mo and talk to Kate.

Hey Kate, what's up, lady? Hi, Dr. John. How we doing? I'm all right. How are you? I am doing good, doing good. We're covering, but I'm coming back. What's up?

My question is, how can I help my husband better manage our kids? Oh man, I don't have any idea. Help me, help me. I probably need to call you. What's going on? So we have a three-year-old and a four-month-old. So we have a three-year-old and a four-month-old,

and he's some anxiety and he's pretty impatient. And he kind of just gets frustrated after like 10 minutes and then just needs to go take a break. And I don't get any breaks. Yeah. How long has this been going on? Um, he's not that awful with like the babies, but once they hit the toddler He's not that awful Once he's only medium he's medium awful with the babies. He's full awful with the

With the older one Yeah, so the older one is a little bit worse just because you know toddlers are little mini teenagers But but is a little bit worse just because you know toddlers are little mini teenagers. But also taught like all right so I am with the I remember the exasperated when my son my daughter didn't do it so much but my son when he was just like a like a ball. I just remember he's a ball of human, right? And was a newborn. My wife was back teaching and he would just scream in this harrowing scream. I didn't know what to do. And I would just like try everything screaming, screaming. I didn't know what to do. And I used to get so frustrated. I would just get exasperated. Like I don't know what to do here. Um, but my wife wasn't there. So I had to do something. Right. And sometimes I would just take them out and put them in a stroller and just be walking on the street and screaming. I didn't know what to do. Right. Um, and so I get that the three or four year

old now we're getting into like adult grown up temper tantrum me kind of world. Tell me about that. So I let me say it. So I have a ton of compassion for mom or dad. Like I need a break for a second. I got to go outside because my nerves are fried. I get that.

I get that. And also get the other side of it like, Hey, one of us doesn't get a break, right? One of us has to be here for the screaming human being. Get that. I get that. And I also get the other side of it like, hey, one of us doesn't get a break, right? One of us has to be here for the screaming human being. I get that. But tell me about the three, two, three, four, or five year old. I don't know. Like she is very independent and likes to do her own thing. And she doesn't listen to him because I feel like he like just starts yelling and like

puffs and puffs whenever she's like reacting to anything. And like I am able to like talk to her and like validate her feelings and like work her through it and kind of use it as like a teaching moment but he just kind of freaks out so then now she doesn't listen to him and then I think he like is scared that he doesn't want to cause a tantrum by like getting her to follow through with like non-negotiable things like brushing your hair after the bath because he doesn't want her to cry because he doesn't know how to handle it and then stresses them out.

Gosh this is the most like dude you're like talking about every house USA right now. I guess this is as direct as I would put this, the stake of his relationship with his daughter and his wife are on the line right now. Yes. And if this was not about relationships, but this was about feeding his family at work, hey, we are no longer writing things on paper and putting them in an envelope. We have this new thing called email. You learn how to do it or you're fired. You know what everybody did?

They learned how to do email. And so that I know we can do it. But we have to step over our egos. And by the way, it's a big step. And this is this is the pot talking to the kettle here. step over our egos. And by the way, it's a big step. And I'm this is this is the pot talking to the kettle here. When you look in your tool bag to help solve a problem with your kids and there's no tools in there. Or there's just one yell. Or

just another tool just hide or another tool just shut down and play video game like it's scary so I get that but he has got to put on his big boy pants and decide I'm going to learn how to connect with my daughter and do this right because the stakes are way too high. Yeah. If you approach him as a skills issue, at least in my house, I will tell you it's one of the greatest gifts my wife gave me. Besides psychological stability, which I needed desperately, she approached me learning things about my kids as skills skills not as character defects. Do you get the difference? It made all the world to me because when I would do something wrong, when I would try to take on my daughter when she was four and

there's now I've got a 40 year old trying to take on a four-year-old which is a recipe for an inferno, right? She didn't come at me and say, you're stupid, you're dumb. I can't believe you're doing this. She would never do that. But she'd say, hey, this particular approach isn't effective, try this one. And then I had to be a grownup and go talk to Becky Kennedy. I had to be a grownup and go talk to Sissy Golf

here in Nashville. I had to be a grownup and go learn a whole bunch of skills. Talk to my friend, Lynn Jennings back in Lubbock, Texas. I had to get a grownup and go learn a whole bunch of skills. Talk to my friend Lynn Jennings back in Lubbock, Texas. I had to get on the phone and learn some skills because the stakes were too high. Do you get what I'm saying? I'm pretty passionate about this just because it was my house, right? Yeah, and I try to give him like tips on things that he can do and then I kind of explain why I do the things that I do.

I know that he feels really bad because he can't figure it out. He can. He can. He can. Because he can figure out his truck and he can figure out sports. He can figure out what he wants to figure out. It just takes a lot of patience and it's really boring and it's really revealing and I ended up in counseling some some pretty heavy heavy counseling

Because I had some stuff I had to get right with me Yeah, I am I'm I forced him to start therapy so that's always good So you get what I'm saying? Yeah. How did his mom treat him? Oh, she just let him do whatever he wanted. He was an only child and she's still the same way today. Okay. What about his dad? Yeah, he wasn't really in the picture. Okay. Does he like the way his mom raised him?

I think yes and no. Okay. I think he's starting to realize that it wasn't always the best, but she did the best that she could be like a single mom. Have you two aligned on parenting strategies? Um, I mean, I know for sure. I mean, I know for sure. I know you do. I tell him what I want and he agrees with it most of the time. Okay. Here's a helpful exercise.

Yeah. I want you all to get away for a breakfast, okay? And I know that sounds insane right now. Can you pump or something and I don't know the mechanic can you get away where it's just y'all two for one breakfast for two hours is that possible? Okay I want you to do that and I want you to hold both of his hands across the table and say I see a husband who loves me and our two kids more than life itself and I'm so grateful. Do you believe that? Is that a true statement?

I don't put words in your mouth. Yes. Do you believe he's a good man inside? Yes. Okay. I also want you to tell him whatever is true in your heart about how he has talked to you about how he was raised. And that I don't want to duplicate that here.

And maybe that frustration and that smoke and that anger he's feeling his dad left. He's a good deal with that smoke and anger and rage, right? Or that powerlessness. That's the feeling is that powerlessness. I can't even get a four year old, a 10 pound four year old to put her clothes away, right? I can't, I feel so weak and powerless. And then men especially take that personally and becomes existential and then it gets loud. And then I think you'd be real clear, hey the stakes are too high here. What was

your relationship like with your dad? He wasn't around. Okay. Sir, you both kind of flying blind here on what a good dad looks like. Yes. Can we put that on the table? And you can look at him and say, here's now that I'm a mom, here's what I wish I'd had. And then here's a real fun exercise. Let's say your daughter's name is Julie. What do we want Julie, who do we want Julie to be the night she walks across that graduation stage in high school?

We want her to be a person of character, we want her to be hilarious, we want her to be strong, we want her to be independent, we want her to be able to follow instructions, like all those things. Write all those down and let's distill those all the way back to, okay, then as of right now, she's got to know that we love her no matter what. As for our house, no more yelling. As for our house, no more disappearing. And let's put some of those things on paper.

Because I think both of you are, have you heard me talk about pictures and words? Yes. Okay. I think you have a picture of what you want him to be like. And he's got a picture of what he wants his kids to be like. And y'all are talking past each other. So let's go paint those pictures really clearly. Yeah.

And then he's gonna have to just be a grown man and get some new skills because he doesn't have a skill set. And you're gonna have to be a grown woman and get some skills on communicating directly and clearly and go from there. Does that make sense? I don't know if this is helpful or not, but. No, yeah, that makes sense. I ache for him.

It's like I want to hug him and also be like, bro, it's time. Yeah, like hug him and shake him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's shaking and pat patting and shaking and pat pat. Because I've been him. I've been him. And I want him to know what it's like on the other side of this When your nine-year-old daughter

Like brings you this hilarious story that she's written in a secret card that says you're my favorite you're like I love you daddy or my favorite and Curls up next to you on the couch when you're sick and says I want to watch whatever show you want to like Like I wanted them to know what it feels like to be at peace With your kids and that means to be at peace with your kids. And that means you're at peace with yourself. I wanted them to know what that feels like and you can't. You just gotta tell somebody to trust me and walk through that gauntlet.

You know what I mean? Yeah. But I will also tell you that it's become, it's a much easier process when I know my wife isn't sitting next to me judging every step I take. She's with me, encouraging me and receiving feedback too because it's not like she's perfect right but we're doing this thing together. You're on the right path man you're on the right path. You can't

change him but man you can sure encourage the heck out of him and on the actual tasks you can be be very, very clear about some tasks. But let's get away. Let's swipe the thing clear. Both of you are trying to have a picture of a dad you'll never experienced in real life. Let's get aligned on that picture. Let's go try to make that picture real. I believe in you guys. We'll be right back. Let's talk about cozy earth. Listen, in my house, I would prefer to sleep somewhere just south of the Arctic Circle. I like it cold. And my wife, she would prefer to sleep in a fire, or maybe like in a grill. We can't agree on temperature, but we can agree on how much we both love

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What's up, JT? How you doing, Dr. John? I'm doing great, brother. How are you, man? I'm doing okay. It's a little JT? How you doing, Dr. John? I'm doing great, brother. How are you, man? I'm doing okay. It's a little bit warmer here today, finally, so it's nice to have a break from the cold. Excellent, man.

What's going on, brother? Okay, so my question, long, like, windy, twisty question, so I'm just gonna jump into it. How much of my past and my struggles do I need to like tell my daughter later in life or does that like cause problems for her growing up? Hmm. What brings that question up right now? So, my daughter and I are kind of butting heads. She's three and Yeah, how old are you? 27. All right. Let's just pause right there. It's you're right where you need to be dude

Okay, three-year-olds run around and bang their head on every boundary possible to see if it will hold Which is what I've heard and we've come and come up with the phrase, she's a three-nager and it's wonderful. Correct. You're not a bad dad. I mean, you might be a terrible dad. I don't know. But like just because she's doing that, doesn't mean your marriage is bad. Doesn't mean you're bad.

Doesn't mean your past is bad. Doesn't mean anything other than she is three years old and developmentally she's doing exactly what she should be. And she's saying, oh yeah, you say that stove is hot. I'm going gonna find out. And this is just a critical developmental time. And that's why when people call me, they're like, am I marriage is messy

or this is happening and my kids three, I always just stop and be like, all right, call me back in two years and we'll square up again. It's just that season, man. All right, so y'all are butting heads. And by the way, yes, you ever seen those cram videos? I forgot the name of the comedian. They're the best, like the the goat videos. They're like cram. Don't get into a like a headbutting competition with a three

year old. Everybody loses that one. Yeah, and I'm I'm learning through that, especially with like, what I've been working through the past couple years. Um, so If you're good with it, I'll just let it write dude little tiny story. Okay Struggling with addiction came to a head two years ago. Well two and a half years ago with an affair and Yours are like in January mine, okay and told my wife in January, mine. Okay.

Told my wife two years ago in January and we'd been on the recovery journey. She's been through a lot of intensive counseling. So have I like, and we separated for two months in 2023, then separated for six months last year because we were just band-aid fixing and not actually fixing the root issues. We got back together summer of last year and

realizing like my daughters and my relationship is like, it's okay, it's good. But like there are times where it's like, I'm getting frustrated with her. She wants mom more than me. She wants like, she won't listen to anything I say, even if I'm saying it calmly and kindly. She won't listen to me until my wife says,

hey, what did dad say? And listen to dad. And then she'll listen. So I don't know if like- Totally developmental. No, there's nothing wrong with your daughter. Okay, so that's not like I haven't really screwed her up with the separation.

No. Okay. Your daughter's being three. My bigger concern is, is that you're at a place, you're at a fragile emotional state to such a degree that a three-year-old is threatening the axis upon which your world spins. Let me put it another way, that sounded really dramatic. You're giving a three year old a vote. Like a three year old doesn't get a vote.

They're three. Like I'm not going to give a three year old my bad day. I'm not going to give you my feel like you're three. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like there's a reason they can't vote. They don't have a three yearold does not have the cogni- they can be manipulative and a three-year-old can, like, I mean, I don't want to get through all the PSJA and all that.

The three-year-olds are smart and they can be manipulative, but they are not as cognitively complex as adults put upon them. Okay. And so, she just wants to check in with her mom. Let just... That means you and your wife need to be connected there. Or you and your wife need to come up with... She doesn't check in with mom. Okay.

But that will go away over time. What won't go away is... She will very quickly, if she has, I guarantee she already has, she knows how to control dad. I can get dad to leave the room if I push one inch past this one line. He'll leave. I can finally get him to give me that candy if I just push past this one line or I'm uncomfortable because daddy's uncomfortable and he'll I can do this one thing he'll get mad he'll spank me he'll yell at me and then I can cry and then I'll feel better.

But what she's learning is it's her job to make sure dad's emotionally okay and dude that cannot be your daughter's job. Right. That was alcohol's job that was your affairs job and now you've given it to your daughter's job. Right. That was alcohol's job, that was your affair's job, and now you've given it to your daughter, that can't be her job. That has to be your job. Okay.

Is that fair? Yeah, very. Yeah, there's been other stressors that I've been like, really letting affect me and my wife has noticed like, hey, you're really stressed about work and it's affecting our home So like it was very clear Work is just really stressful getting pulled 30 different directions to do everyone's job and covering

Incompetency from lack of effort from where I work And I work really hard and I have a different buy-in because if I don't work, my family doesn't eat. Um, and I worked really hard to develop that work ethic over the last two years. And even my wife said, Hey, you're not allowed to bring work home. Cause she like, of everything that we've been through, we've had very long conversations. We've had boundary talks. We've had rules put in place to keep us both safe. And there are times when the tension of work and just not like really high emotions spill

over and I do tend to get frustrated with my daughter, not because it's my daughter, it's because it's like I haven't processed other stressors. Yeah. Make that commitment right now, today. Make today day one. Day one that that never happens again. Don't make her carry one too, man. She's three. Yeah. Okay. And here's the other side of that. I keep hearing in your language that you're trying to put yourself in a position where either you're the only one doing it right or you're the victim of a thing. If you're going to work and you're working really hard, even if you have to clean up

other people's mess but it's paying your bills and it's what you want to be doing every day, then exhale and make peace. You work with a bunch of people who don't do their job. Okay. But if you show up every day expecting that thing to fulfill you too, or I'm trying, I don't want to be like a beautiful mind here where I'm pulling this piece of data and this piece of data and trying to create a whole new story. But of all the different things you're telling me, everything is leading to a guy that is

desperately seeking something external to tell him he's got value and he's okay. Yeah, definitely fallen into that's what I used to be like that was my biggest like bro. That's you right now. That's you right now. That's you right now. You just moved it to something that's not going to get you arrested or get you divorced, which is work. And that's where most sophisticated men move their addictions. Do you have any friends?

Yeah, actually, I've worked really hard to develop really good close friendships the past couple years. Are those guys you can call and just whine about work with for a minute? 100%. Okay. Do you have an exercise routine to burn some of this off? Not lately, we just moved, but definitely need to get back into that.

Okay. Not as a place to escape, but a place to channel all some of this energy. Kudos to you, my brother, for getting a group of friends, that's awesome. That is awesome. That is amazing. Thanks.

Often I hear in these situations, wives just become trash bins for their whole day because they're the only person their husband has, right? Yeah. Tell me about your addiction. What were you struggling with? It was pornography. Okay. Yeah.

That even tells me more like you. Like. Yeah. Yeah. Searching for somebody out there to tell you to feel help you feel alive. Yeah. Where does that come from, man? Um, that's the house I grew up in and worked really hard with my counselor to kind of address some of that. But no, it was like, I was homeschooled for all 12 years. And so it's like more of a student teacher relationship than a parent relationship. Yeah, you've been singing a dance in your whole life, huh? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Can I just like, I don't know if you've ever come across this, but

this is just something crazy in my life. I got a letter grade for how I cleaned a bathroom. Doesn't surprise me. Okay. Doesn't surprise me. Wow. I can't imagine that much would at this point, but like... Yeah. Well, and I'm trying to, I'm just trying to quickly reverse engineer it as a parent. Like, all right, grades, like you don't need to know about chlorophyll, borophyll, but you do need to know about how to clean the bathroom. So I'm gonna shift grades to,

I can see the logic there, but they can also see a kid being like, dude, I'm seven. I just got to see in bathroom. What are we doing? Right, I can see that too. And so it's like one of those things that like, as you get older, you'll start to get compassionate

because your parents are probably trying to do the best they could. And they were reading a lot of internet and they're like, yeah, we're going to do it different. And then they ended up giving their kid a grade on bathroom counter cleaning. Right? Like, so it's like one of those like, oh gosh, this is insane. And also I've been dead my own skin for 12 years. And now I'm finally free. And then all of a sudden the world hands me this box with every act of depravity known

to you know, in human history. And now I'm married. Now I got a kid that won't listen to me. Now I got people at work that won't do it. And it just kind of unspools. So what if I flipped it all over, David, and said this? Are you still fighting on a day-to-day basis to put away pornography? No, actually that, with a lot of hard work and accountability group, I've been able to

find good chunks of sobriety. I had a relapse in January, but since that point there's been no problem. Cool. And before that it was nine months, before that it was six or seven months. But what I'm asking is, I asked it in too dramatic of a way, but you're staying vigilant, right? You're still working. Yep. Good. Are you done cheating on your wife? Oh yeah. Okay. Have you and your wife sat down and begun to the healing process to get to the root of all this stuff? Mm hmm. Okay.

Yes, we've worked really hard to get there. We actually had our dreaming vision for this upcoming year. Awesome. Meeting like last December and like, a lot of your tips and tools have really helped us. It's awesome. The next gift you can give your family, and this is a tough one, is to deal with the nuclear reactor that's sitting in the middle of your chest. The one that's always hot, always looking for the next person, always trying to get

out of the next thing, always worried about what you just said, always trying to make sure you're impressing the person over there or over there. The one whose head's always on a swivel, the eyes are always moving. Situational awareness 24 7 365 right yeah it's exhausting not to care so much what people think but I know but you that kept you alive growing up you had to because you're getting graded and listen your daughter's teeny tiny little body think of her just as a walking nervous system.

I promise you that little girl wants more than anything on planet earth to run and hug her dad. And her teeny tiny little body is saying do not do that. He's electric. And I know this brother from personal experience. And when I freed myself, I freed her. Now I'm getting all choked up on the radio, man. Hold on. No, I, I having a daughter is the wildest adventure I thought I could ever be on. I know. My daughter, dude, she is a human hurricane and she's still she, dude, she fights me every single day, literally and figuratively.

And I love it. But it's not from a place of nervous system fear anymore. It's from normal developmental. I've got a really tough, amazing, beautiful little girl. Who's going to grow up to run some stuff someday. It's not me versus her anymore, it's me with her, but I had to go do my work so that I could show up okay. And I had to get my head off the swivel. You get what I'm saying? Yeah.

Like, okay, I hear what you're saying. Now my brain is like trying to think of like practical next steps for how to do that. Is that through counseling? Is that through reading, exercise routine? Like probably both hand. Okay. Probably all the above. When you met with a counselor, were you totally honest about what you grew up with?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. There I still see my counselor every other week just because there's a lot of stuff I have to work through. Okay. Yeah, that's the one place that like I've dumped every little thing. Okay. So I want you to go ask for some very specific practices, not just tools, but practices on reactivity. Okay.

The nerd word is mindfulness. It's the gap between stimulus and response. We're going to start to lengthen that gap between when your daughter goes, no daddy, and the rage that fires up without you even realizing it. And the rage comes from a perceived lack of control, out of power, out of balance. That's exactly what it is. And that came from when you were a little bitty kid because you never had any autonomy in your house.

You were getting graded on toilet cleaning. Huh. I've never thought to equate like that with how I react to my kids. Bro, you got a grade on how to pee. You've never, you got a grade on how to pee. You've got a grade on wiping your deuces. Bro, you've never had autonomy. Not for a second.

That's what pornography gives you. It gives you the sense of aliveness. And it's not even the pornography, it the urge it's the the the dopamine buildup People think dopamine is after you click. It's before you click It's the build it's the feeling of That's the rebellion of a life that has no autonomy And if three-year-old little girl just reflects it back to you. And so for the sake of our entire family's souls,

dude, you don't get a vote into whether I'm in a bad mood or not. I'm not giving you that. You're three for crying out loud. You are going to stop hitting or you're choosing to fill in the blank. But OK, cool. Go check with mom.

And then when you come back, you're going to do X, Y, and Z. I'm not going to let her make me mad. She's three. And then what she's going to learn is, oh, mom and dad are united in everything. And then shortly those need to go check with mom so those things stop. Okay. But you get what I'm saying? I want you to ask your counselor for some very specific tools. Sometimes it's breathing exercises. Sometimes it's journaling. Sometimes it's catching yourself being mad and forcing yourself to walk back and get down on your daughter's

level and look her in the eye and put both hands on her face and say, daddy got too mad and that was not your fault, that was daddy's fault. Yeah, that I have done. There have been times where I have walked away, took a breath and then apologized to her. Okay. Have you forgiven yourself for cheating on your wife? I'd like to say yes, but I don't 100% believe that I have. Okay. Commit to that. Stop carrying it around.

If your wife says she's not carrying it around, you stop carrying it. Stay vigilant, but stop carrying it. Go be the next best husband you can be the next minute, and the minute after that, and the minute after that. Okay? Okay. It's game on now, my brother. Good call. All right.

Absolutely. All right, grateful for you, brother. Thanks for calling, JT. Stay out of trouble. Appreciate you. We'll be right back. All right, let's talk about Delete Me, my go-to provider for online safety, security,

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Go to join, J-O-I-N, joindeleteme.com slash deloney right now. That's joindeleteme.com slash deloney and save. All right, we are back. Hey, don't forget to subscribe, like and review the show with all the stars you can punch into the internet boxes. That was my... Is that a good song, Kelly? You don't think you like that song? No, I don't think I'll be downloading that one on my playlist anytime soon. Well, fine. All right, let's go out to Lancaster, Pennsylvania and talk to Turn The Page. Hey

Page, what's up? Hi, how are you doing? I'm doing great. How about you? Oh, you know, sitting on the floor throwing treats at my dogs to try to keep them quiet. Oh, one of those days, huh? So what's happening? I'm going to read my question because I tend to fumble. Okay.

How do I metabolize anger and resentment towards my father who is a therapist while I also pursue my own career in therapy. Why are you angry with your dad? I mean obviously it kind of goes back to being a kid but the big thing is is I just see a big disconnect between his work life and his family life. And... You didn't practice what he preaches? No. But the thing is, he's an amazing therapist. So it's kind of like, there's confusion on my side too on how those don't connect.

Okay, let me ask you this. Is he your therapist? No. Okay. So let's hold him accountable to the role with which he's assigned in your life. Okay. Forget what he does for a living. Okay. What are you mad at that he did or didn't do

for you as your dad? Well I'd probably just say like he wasn't always a therapist. He became a therapist within the like the last eight years. Um, but he, he kind of like self diagnosis himself as a workaholic and he, he knows it. Um, so like as a kid, I just kind of always felt abandoned by him. Um, but a lot of what my anger comes from is recent stuff between him and my mom. comes from his recent stuff between him and my mom. And I know it's not my place to get in the middle of that. And...

It might be, what is it? Yeah. So, they had a really rocky start. They did not start off their marriage in the best way. And there was a lot of really bad stuff that kind of happened between them in the first couple of years. And they've been married for over 30 years now. But now they're empty nesters. And my dad is kind of using his, his therapy knowledge kind of against my mom.

And it's, uh, it's really frustrating for me because I'm going to school to become a trauma therapist. And what I learned, I've applied to my life. And my dad is such a smart guy. Like he's really smart. And I just kinda, I'm really frustrated with his behavior and how he treats my mom. And some of the stuff that's coming out that I'm learning is just, it's really, really bad.

And I don't know where my place is to step in or not, cause I'm the youngest child of five. Are you still, are you in graduate school right now? Yeah, I'm in undergraduate. I'm kind of taking it slow so that, you know, no debt. Sure, sure. But I do a lot of my own studying off of course as well. Okay. So there's a couple of things here that are kind of blinking lights at me okay? And so I'm always okay to be wrong. I'm often wrong. Okay. But there's

a few big blinking lights that are relatively common. And so are you in your 20s early 20s? Yeah, yeah, I'm like 20s. Okay. All right So big blinking light number one is there's actually some words for it. I won't nerd out but students who study psychology students who are in the first couple of years especially of graduate school for psychology, LMFT, LPC, social work, whatever, begin to pathologize and diagnose everything and everyone around them. Oh yeah, I know. That make sense?

Yeah. About everything. Oh, yeah. No, I make sense everything everything and it's a it's off. It's it makes sense But as one colleague I used to I used to she used to say no unauthorized practice of magic outside of Hogwarts And so if you're not in school Close the book Now school is always fun to be reflective and to like ask yourself questions, but it's not until you know, it's like when you think you have every diagnosis until you do one of your practicums in a psych ward and you go, oh, that's what that is. Yep.

Right? I was uncomfortable. That is not that is what we call fill in the blank diagnosis. Right? Yeah. Okay. So that's number one, which is don't look to counteract your dad's wizardry with your own undergraduate wizardry.

It's a fool's errand, okay? Yeah, no, I'm very, very aware of that. Cause I actually, a lot of it started before I even got into school and I've been Listening to your show forever And I actually pull a lot of I actually learned a lot from you. I'm just kind of kind of fun. I appreciate it But you'll not so you'll know what am I one of my big things is no dad Don't don't don't diagnose your friends and your neighbors and your whatever. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm yeah

I've I quickly understood that in, in, in the beginning and I'm like, okay, this is not a good idea. Awesome. I actively try to close the book on myself. Perfect. So I, I intentionally don't ever use the words narcissist around my friends. I don't use the words. There's just words like that, that are, that are diagnostics.

I don't use them. I just don't use them. Um, I say that guy's a jerk. And I'll leave it to his clinical psychologist to diagnose him. But what I can say is, and this is the part two, focus on the behaviors. I don't care what your job is. I don't care what your how smart or how not smart I think you are. Don't talk to somebody like that. And so I don't care what the diagnosis is. That's a context, not an excuse. You can't treat people a certain way.

I don't care what your IQ is. You can't treat people a certain way. Have some dignity and some decorum for crying out loud. The third thing is I get involved when somebody's getting hurt Mm-hmm. I don't care if that's my role or not my role or my place or not my place I could care less if somebody's getting hurt. I'm getting involved Mm-hmm. And so if your mom's getting hurt Then and you can't sleep at night without saying something then say something

Know this you've probably got a part of a conversation. Yeah, no, it's weirdly enough, even though I'm the youngest, and I know this isn't healthy, and I've tried to back off on it, but most of them do kind of come to me to talk about stuff, or at least my dad does sometimes, because he knows I'm interested in therapy,

but then I get his side of the story and then my mom's side and it's like, they're two different things and. Have you studied triangulation yet? A little bit, yeah. Okay, Google that one, because it's happening to you. Yeah. And it always collapsed the relationship between everybody.

Yeah. And so you're getting triangulated into this. What do you think about this? What do you think about this? Did you hear what she said? She told me that you said that I'm out. I am not playing that game. One of the most successful things I've heard

from multiple peers, people my age is, they tell their parents, whoa, stop, stop, stop, stop. That's my dad. I don't hear you talk bad about my dad. Or that's my mom. I can't be your safe place for that That's actually one thing that I learned from your show that I actually kind of did with my dad Because he he would try to like badmouth my mom and I'm like, hey, I'm not here to talk about my mom Good. This is a different conversation like but one step further

I'm not gonna listen to you talk bad about my mom. If you need to talk bad about mom, you need to get yourself a therapist. Yeah. Right? So that's one thing. One is I'm not gonna talk about mom. The next layer of boundary is I'm not gonna sit here and listen to you do it.

So if you keep talking bad about mom, you are asking me to leave by your actions. And that's a different level of grownupness of putting up boundaries, but you're not gonna, and I'll tell the same thing about mom. I'm not gonna sit here and let you talk bad about dad. She doesn't. No, she doesn't.

I know, I know, I'm just putting it out there. It's just not picking on dad. And I would back all the way out. As it comes for resentment, I wouldn't give him that kind of power Hmm like go study and be the best therapist that you can possibly be there's tons of hurting people out there that needs Somebody to sit with them Mm-hmm. And if you notice he is not being congruent in the things that he learns versus how he's weaponizing some of these things and

How he is like honoring his patients more than he honors his own kids or honoring his patients more than he honors his wife. Then make a firm commitment as for me in my house, I won't do that. The best way to navigate resentment is to commit and then live out step by step by step by step a different kind of life. I'm not going to be that kind of person. The path forward as two adults navigating how to move forward is one person has to turn the lights on and say, here's the boundaries and I'd love to have you in it.

Here's my picture of what us together looks like. Are you in? And as another adult, whether it's your dad, it's your mom, it's your spouse, it's whoever, they can say, I'm not in. And avoiding that reality, I mean, you can kick the can down the road, but that reality is eventually going to catch up with you. And it's heartbreaking at any point. So I'd rather catch it earlier than later. But Paige, go be a great therapist.

Go be the best counselor you could possibly be. The world needs you. The world needs you. We'll be right back. Hey everybody! Easter is just around the corner, and it's one of the most important days of the Christian calendar. Easter is a season of spring,

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Deloney. Again, that's HALO, H-A-L-L-O-W dot com slash deloney for three months for free. All right, we are back. Kelly, my voice is fading. Yes, I know I can tell. I kind of feel like this is how the metal singer I always wanted to sound like. Just not sound like Sebastian Bach, just so we're aware. Guys, that's so good.

All right, so am I the problem? Go for it. All right, so this is from Jessica and she says, that's so good. All right, so am I the problem? Go for it. All right, so this is from Jessica, and she says, I read a lot. I'd say 40% romance books. Many have explicit scenes. I recently got into a discussion with friends, and I'm wondering if I'm the problem. A friend said I was reading porn. Correct.

And it is the same as watching porn. I disagree for two major reasons. One, no real person is being harmed, trafficked, taken advantage of. Regardless of where you stand on sex work, there's actually none of that happening in books. Two, if my book is 300 pages, maybe 30 or 40 pages is quote-unquote porn, the rest is enjoyable. That's fine because of the other 80 to 90 percent that's actually character development and plot. Even in the quote-unquote smut books that are 50% explicit, I'm still reading 150 pages of plot. What do you think? Are explicit romance books

just as bad for our minds and bodies as videos? And my ruining my chances for healthy relationships or is mixing in a little romance between real books. Okay now and then. This question. You wrote this question. I know you did. No I did not, but I was never had really thought of it this way. And I was very, very curious to hear your thoughts on it. So I was with her 100,000% on point one. I think she's really

reaching on her point two mainly because there's no plot in those books, come on. She's like reading literature that just happened to have some nudity in it, right? Like I was walking through a museum and I saw, shut, and the David was standing there, right? Not real. And I actually just did a big event and this question came up. I don't have any data. So the best generalizable data,

or I would say non-generalizable data, but we'll generalize it here. And by the way, generalized, I say that all the time. All that means is I can make a point about men and cast that upon all men. And when you say non generalizable, that just means I can't say this about everybody. Right? But I think I'm pretty close here that in some, you're like, still don't know what you're talking about.

I'll stop speaking nerd. On the whole, women read pornography, men watch it. And I can't, I've never read a study on this. I've never, whatever. And that doesn't hold true for everybody. Some women watch pornography, some men. I, what's that, what's the fairy porn book? Oh yeah.

I read a couple of them. First one. I tried to read the first one of those and could not even get into the book but the game of A court of roses and thorns or whatever, but there's a whole I think I mean, that's a whole genre now fantasy Yeah, it's like it's like Hogwarts after dark Yes. Yeah, it's Hogwarts after dark But like I like I read the first that first book on the airplane, like I read it, whatever, fine. I can't, for the life of me, I've never seen a study on this, it cannot be as

quote unquote damaging neurochemically as watching hardcore pornography. I can't imagine that. Okay. To the dopamine system, to the whole dopogenetic system, I can't imagine that, okay? To the dopamine system, to the whole dopogenetic system, I can't imagine that, okay? At the same time, Anna Lemke writes really eloquently, like she studies addiction at Stanford School of Medicine. She talks about her addiction, literal addiction to romance novels. They became a place where she went to and they got increasingly sexualized and they got increasingly out there.

And she had them on her Kindle. She could hit another one and another one and another one and another one. And it was like a morphine drip, right? And so when any type of sexual content, if you will, becomes a way to escape the life that you have. You're in a big problem. You're in a problem. I will say the visual stimulating stuff, I just think it's worse.

I think it's not good. It's just not good. And I think it has to do different stuff. I need to talk to Huberman about it. Like it has to do different stuff. I need to talk to Huberman about it. Like it has to do different stuff to you. Maybe I'm wrong and I'm okay being wrong there. I'm not saying that I'm gonna be the police on nudity in movies.

I'm not gonna be the police on like what's a good book and what's not a good book, whatever. I think anytime you get into banning books, you get into, it's never gone well in history, ever, ever, ever. So all that to say is, you know, you know, and I know that's not a helpful thing, but you know, you know if, here's a good example

with one of the fairy porn books, I asked my wife to read one. I was like read this this is like going through like it's wildfire and I don't get it. She texts me this is actually kind of hilarious she texts me hey I'm reading this book I just read the hottest scene I've ever read. I bookmarked it for you. Brotown in Motown. You want to say I got home early that day? I got home, cleared the decks. Hey, dude, shut up, kids.

Everybody, not really, but like I read this quote unquote scene. I mean, I went thumb through it to find out like, dude, am I going to have to like get on Amazon and get some wings? Like, what are we doing here? Like I'm down, but like, I need to know. It was the most boring scene in human history. It was so... I didn't get it. It was like, we were like, no, it was nothing. There was nothing explicit. In fact, I asked my wife, like, when did they start hooking up and she's like

That's not that's not what are you talking about? That's not the point I was like that's pretty much always the point she's like no it was about Anticipation and build and nobody knew but they knew but maybe one person knew and nobody was watching but maybe And I was like, oh my gosh, I don't know you we've been together for a quarter century I don't know but so that've been together for a quarter century. I don't know. But so that led to a hilarious, fun, amazing conversation. I learned stuff about my... So all I have to say is this, I'm not going to police all that stuff, like especially

when it comes to literature and whatever. I will say, you know, if you're hiding from your own marriage, you know, if, dude, I can't stop doing this or I'm increasingly becoming more aroused by these books and about my own life, or I'm skipping sex or intimacy or hookups with my husband or my wife so that I can get under the covers and read these, but like then you got a problem, right? And I guess we can, if you wanna get super moral about it, if you're gonna say I don't want to have eyes for anybody else, then yeah, clear the deck, man. If you can clear the deck, clear the deck all the way. But as for, it's the, so

that's me just spinning off top of my head here, but I don't know if that answers the original question, I don't even remember. What do you think? I think I agree with you pretty much 100% on this. I would love to see like a brain scan because we've seen brain scans of when men watch porn. Yeah, it lights up like a Christmas tree. Yeah, I would love to see a woman reading one of these books, what it does. Is it the same? Because I'm like you, I don't think it would be, but I don't know. They're not the type of books I read.

I know because nobody gets beheaded. There's not true crime books. I read three kinds. Murder, history, or biographies. That's pretty much all I read. But I did try the, because I knew the whatever court of whatever it was called, the fairy porn. I tried and I was like, I can't. I mean, they're not even human. Whatever. Just Hogwarts gone wild. Yeah, Hogwarts has kids in it, so let's not. That's a children's thing. Oh, sorry. So let's not besmirch that.

Let's not use besmirch on this show. Gosh. But I agree with you that I can't think it's the same, but I think it's all about the escaping. If you are escaping something and this is your real life. Escaping? And I'll even say this, there's times to escape. Oh yeah. Sometimes I just want to read a book. But it's being intentional.

I'm intentionally escaping. I'm intentionally, I don't want to deal with this. I'm going to just get to live in this world. Escaping versus numbing, I think. Maybe that's it. If you can't have a life outside of this world, then we've got a problem. There you go. But it is a thing now. It is a huge, huge money making genre now.

Well, and AI do just print some. Yeah. Like you can just hit a button because there's not plot. I think the first one, I mean, 50 Shades of Grey started all of it. I think that was the first one. Which one was? 50 Shades of Grey. Oh, I don't know. I think that was the first one. Which one was? 50 Shades of Grey. Oh, I don't know.

I think that was the first one I remember hearing about like, you know. That's going to cross over to like, like BDSN, like Psalm. Yeah, but that was the first one I remember hearing from even my friends, like, oh my gosh, I read this book and I'm sure it was out there before, but not that explicit. Gotcha. Yeah. Well, I still don't know that it beats the real thing. I hope not for people. That's not good if it does. So they say. That wraps it up

another educational episode if we helped anybody on that one. Stay in school, don't do drugs. Bye.