The Home Service Expert Podcast - Navigating the Digital Marketing Landscape with Kick Charge Creative

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

In this conversation, Dan Antonelli & Ryan Redding delve into the critical role of branding, digital marketing, and the long-term investment required for effective SEO. The conversation also highlights common misconceptions about the process of creating unique brand identities and the operational challenges businesses face in their growth journey. They emphasize the need for businesses to invest adequately in marketing channels, to leverage data for decision-making, and to engage with their communities through grassroots efforts.    Don’t forget to register for Tommy’s event, Freedom 2025! This is the event where Tommy’s billion-dollar network will break down exactly how to accelerate your business and dominate your market in 2025.   For more details visit freedomevent.com   00:00 The Responsibility of Branding   03:02 Kick Charge Creative's Evolution   06:06 The Importance of Digital Marketing   08:58 SEO vs. PPC: The Long Game   11:53 The Power of Branding in Home Services   15:00 Creating Unique Brand Identities   18:09 The Process of Effective Branding   21:00 Common Misconceptions About Branding   23:54 The Impact of Branding on Business Growth   26:57 Operational Challenges in Business Growth   29:51 The Philosophy Behind Responsible Branding   32:20 Building A-Plus Teams and Effective Marketing Strategies   39:55 The Importance of Branding and Community Engagement   40:04 The Role of Logos and Intellectual Property   44:54 The Power of Grit and Adaptability in Business   51:32 Leveraging Storytelling for Customer Loyalty   59:16 The Mindset Shift After Rebranding    

You are playing with someone's livelihood when you design their brand and you need to treat that responsibility as such. And I think that that's the part that makes me a little bit sad about, you know, some of the stuff that we're seeing happening in the industry as far as branding or people that are selling branding services. Is there some of them just are not qualified to be doing it. The person that wrote that check to you is expecting you to know how to do your job because you have the potential to really affect their business negatively if you do it wrong. Welcome to the home service expert where each week Tommy chats with world class entrepreneurs and experts in various fields like marketing, sales, hiring and leadership to find out what's really behind their success in business. Now your host, the home service millionaire, Tommy Mello.

Before we get started, I wanted to share two important things with you. First, I want you to implement what you learned today. To do that, you'll have to take a lot of notes, but I also want you to fully concentrate on the interview. So I asked the team to take notes for you. Just text, notes, N-O-T-E-S to 888-526-1299. text notes and OTS to 8 8 8 5 2 6 1 2 9 9. That's 8 8 8 5 2 6 1 2 9 9. And you'll receive a link to download the notes from today's episode. Also, if you haven't got your copy

of my newest book elevate, please go check it out. I'll share with you how I attracted and developed a winning team that helped me build a $200 million company in 22 States. Just go to elevate and win.com forward slash podcast to get your copy. Now let's go back into the interview. All right. Here we go guys. Welcome back to the home service expert podcast today. I got a couple of buddies in town that I have a lot too. I got Dan Antonelli and Ryan Redding here. They're experts in branding, marketing, SEO, graphic design. Ryan is a CMO at Kick Charge Creative. Dan is the founder CEO of Kick Charge Creative as well. Dan is the president and chief operating officer of Kick Charge Creative, an award-winning

New Jersey-based brand agency that specializes in helping home service businesses refine themselves and stand out with disruptive brands. Dan is a nationally recognized speaker and an expert on home service branding with several books on branding to his credit, including Building a Bigger Small Business Brand and his new amazing Amazon bestselling book, Branded Not Blended. Then I got Ryan Redding here. He's an expert in SEO, PBC, LSA, web design, and digital strategy. Ryan has built a reputation for delivering real measurable results in an industry where

marketing is often misunderstood. He's been an instrumental driver of multi-millions of dollars for businesses across US and Canada and is a trusted voice on marketing leadership and operations of the home service industry. It's a pleasure to have you guys in the studio today. Thanks for being here. It's good to be here, here. Yeah, I'm excited. This is I love like there's nothing better on the planet than talking about marketing and branding.

Like for me, that's the favorite thing. And you guys got a pretty big announcement here. Why don't you tell the listeners what's going on with kick charge and some of the new updates? Sure. Yeah. So we you know, for I mean, this is our 30th year. So we have been doing branding for a really long time, branding traditional graphic design services.

And, you know, the missing piece of our puzzle was really digital marketing. And we wanted to really have that as part of our core offering so that we could really truly offer something that was all in one. So you could get your branding, you could get your trucks, your brochures, your billboards, your Valpacs and then also have a killer branded website that not only was beautiful from an

aesthetic point of view but also functioned well from a digital marketing perspective. And Ryan comes from Levergy which is a really well-known and respected digital marketing company that specializes in home services. So for us, it was a natural acquisition to really complement our services. And now what's beautiful about it is soup to nuts, we can handle everything. I love it.

Ryan, what are your thoughts? I mean, it's OK, I guess. I mean, the reality is, from the marketing side, it's so important, because Google's such a big gorilla, to make anonymous companies kind of stand out. If they all look the same, sound the same, or name the same. So anytime we would have the chance at Levergy to join with a kick-charged brand,

it was just so much easier to get the lift we were hoping for. So now that we're actually pulled together, it's just a game changer. It's been a ton of fun to do this. Yeah, yeah. So again, it was just nice to instead of having like a generic website where someone just literally slaps your logo on the top of it and it feels kind of like everyone else's website, except maybe changing the color of the buttons and things like that. Now, like the brand that we design can live and breathe in that environment and not only just the aesthetics but the voice of the brand is something that we can build into the websites as well. So super excited about it. It's just really

something that I think doesn't really exist right now as far as having that cohesive look of all the touch points. So everywhere that customer is interacting with your brand, they're getting the same message, they're getting the touch points. So everywhere that customer is interacting with your brand, they're getting the same message. They're getting the same story. Yeah, I mean, you guys did a one garage dot coms website. And you know, it's killer. And I know that you kind of used other companies to help with that.

And now it's all in-house, which is huge. What I like about what Ryan does is you measure everything. You've got all in-house people. You don't most, I'd say 90% of people are subbing out to India. They're subbing out to the Philippines. You got an in-house team. You care.

You understand not only organic, which is important and what people view your brand at, but you understand all the other elements. PBC, LSA, Google My Business. And you guys are a one-stop shop. And you know, you put your name on the line and you're willing to deliver and you show are a one-stop shop and you know you put your name on the line and you're willing to deliver and you show the results and guys if you want to we're going to give you a link in here

to go look at all the different companies that have worked with Dan over the years and really you add Ryan to it and these numbers will double not only does the conversion rate help to it and these numbers will double. Not only does the conversion rate help, but the average ticket goes up and the cancellation rates go down and people will apply to you that you didn't think would ever come, like your door will be knocked down. But here's where Ryan comes in. Your cost per lead will go down exponentially and that's where you win. A lot of people, if you got one van, no one's ever going to really see it. Like you can't be everywhere with one van. So you got to be digital marketing. Right. What do you think separates the marketing you guys do from, you know, there's a lot of big companies out there. I'm not even going to name them, but I've never, there's not

a lot of happy clients from them. There's not. And I think, I think in part because for a lot of people, digital marketing feels like snake oil. You don't know. You get missing information or wrong information from a bunch of different people. There are bad operators. I don't think they all are. One of the things that we've taken pride on is we take a lot of time to educate the

companies we work with on what they should expect with PPC, what they should expect with SEO, so that there's just, I want them to know more from a managerial level. I don't expect them to manage a PPC campaign on themselves. That's not fun for anybody. But I do want them to understand it from a managerial level how to make decisions about it so that when we come back in three months, six months, 12 months, 24 months ago, look, hey, we have an 80 to 1 ROI that we can mathematically demonstrate

here. They understand what goes into that and actually trust the numbers. So it becomes one of those things where when you're honest, when you're transparent, you pull people along, it makes it a whole lot easier to not feel like you're in the dark, you don't understand what's happening. So yeah, being able to stand behind those results and upskill the knowledge of the company's process is really really freaking important you know I've made it a Habit to call smarter people than me on a regular basis And I've been talking to a lot of CMOs lately for multi-billion dollar companies, and there's one common theme

I'm like your row as return on ad spend. It's 20 percent 20 percent 20 percent I'm talking to these guys, and I said how do you get overall down to 10 percent? It's 20%, 20%, 20%. I'm talking to these guys, and I said, how do you get overall down to 10%? They said SEO and ranking on Google My Business pages. Every time. That pulls it down so much. So they're on Angie, they're doing PPC,

they're doing mailers, they're doing all this stuff, radio, TV, billboards. And then it pulls it down from the SEO and GMB. And I think that's the one thing that no one's talking about. It's like, what are you guys spending on your SEO? Well, 500 bucks a month or it's combined with PPC and so on. So they got no leaks. I go to a tribe site, look them up. They're not even found anywhere. Not in the first, second or third page. What are your thoughts on that?

I think it's I get it because a lot of guys are addicted to like, like pulling a lever and getting something you pay for this lead, you pay for this click, they like the instant gratification. And SEO sucks for people who aren't willing to make a long term investment. So I'll tell people like, hey, month one, you can expect to lose like 5k. Month two, you're gonna lose 5k. Month three, you're gonna lose 5k on SEO. Sometimes more and if you and a lot of people quit they punch out and like I can't keep writing these checks But the ones that stick it out like month nine They make 2k month 12. They make 45 K the companies we've been working with for four or five six seven years without exception are making in excess of 80 to 1 ROAS Without exception on organic. Those are not year one results. And I think a lot of people don't

want to put themselves in that delayed gratification. PPC, for all the things I hate about it, it is really good about targeting people. So you get this instance thing that's happening, but all you're buying is clicks. There's no loyalty. There's nothing there. It's just very, very high cost of acquisition, very, very low

ROI. That's like a rat race high cost of acquisition, very, very low ROI. That's like a rat race I want to get people out of fast. I got a lot of questions for Dan here, too. I was looking at my numbers last, Q4 of last year, and I was spending $800K a month minimum on PBC. And I looked at my SEO, which you guys are going to be helping with dramatically. And I'm sitting there going, I'm only spending 10,000 a month. Now I'm spending 25,000 a month. I want to start spending a lot of money.

And people are like, I know I'm not going to get instant results, but do you understand even 25,000 is what? One to 32 times. Because if you go to 800,000, like people understand,, and I know AI's changing, but you gotta be everywhere. Like, if you're gonna build a big business, if you just wanna get your business to $500,000 profit, just do paid. Like, if you just wanna be ordinary

and never build anything worth anything, because I guarantee you, when I look at your business and I find out you're not paying yourself and what you're underpaying your managers, your business is worth nothing even at $500,000 of EBITDA, like when I walk through it. But Dan Dan tell me a little bit about why branding is so crucial I believe this I was 30 million when I found you now we're 300 million 10x Does that rebranded and that wasn't it feels like it was six years ago?

Yeah, but talk to me about why branding is so crucial for the home service industry and home improvement I think again, I love making pretty things, but it's the numbers that matter. Right. So when you look at the benchmarks, you look at the KPIs, you look at the cost per acquisition and how much people are having to overspend on their marketing because their brand is unremarkable. And at the end of the day, you want to distill branding into one simple idea. It's how do I live in someone's mind? Rent free, right? So what are we doing? So you have a brand that's memorable. What are we doing

so that when they see the truck, when they see the site sign, when they see the website, and then it's a few months later that they actually need your service, they're going into Google and typing in your branded name, not air conditioning repair near me or not plumbing repair near me. And now you're fighting to be relevant to Google and you're paying to be relevant to Google. So think about how much cheaper it is to have branded keywords. Yeah. And how expensive it is to pay for those same clicks, right? So all the things that we are doing is trying to make a brand that lives in someone's mind that they remember, that they feel

something and they connect with and not only that, that they feel like there's a reason why they should choose you over a competitor and why they should even pay a premium in the process. Yeah, you know, I wrote down here like some brands that I think of now they're national brands but they're easy, they're color like I've never really saw a brand that I appreciated that wasn't simple. You know, so many people, they put everything they do on the side of the truck. Yeah. Like you told me, like we're not putting Angeles, we're not putting the BBB, we're not putting

anything. You got to have a little ROC, that's it. There's a lot of companies out there, like I'm a garage door guy, so Chamberlain, Clopé, Amar, they'll pay for my wraps, but they want to own half of the wrap. Look at Neighborly, we talked about this. Like, why would I let them pay for my brand and then own half my real estate on my vehicle? How big of a mistake is that when you put all these accolades and no one even knows what your brand is? Yeah, I mean people forget that when you're thinking about the truck, you want to think about it as if it was an actual billboard.

So if it was a billboard and you're driving by that billboard on the highway at 60, 70 miles an hour, how much time do you have to process with you being presented? A couple seconds. So what can I put on there that is sticky that they will remember? And that's most important. And that's the single most important thing is your brand name, right? Because it's easy for them to contact you if they know your brand name. They're going to find you on Google, right? They're going to type in your name. That's why people get hung up on, hey, I need to have a big phone number on my truck and I always laugh and I say, you know what?

Listen, the bigger that your phone number the weaker your brand is Yeah, you know because really when was the last time you took your phone out and you literally dialed Digits to contact someone you don't do it that way, right? So half the reps that we do today Don't even have a phone number because it's not relevant. It's not really that important and it's not a call to action that truck It's something again meant to live in someone's mind for when they need service later on the best thing you do The only thing I've ever done is snap a picture real quick, right? And either way, I'm gonna look up the company if it's good on good. See if they got good reviews regardless Exactly. Sorry people's other gay. Let me put my QR code on the side of my van

Really? So what I'm driving next to you and, let me put my QR code on the side of my van. Really? So what? I'm driving next to you and I'm going to scan the QR code? Oh, well, it's for when I'm parked. Again, how many people at that very moment need your services? So we don't believe in huge QR codes, putting them on the side of vehicles. It's not a call to action. It's meant for building your brand. It just takes up the real estate.

So you've worked with a few thousand companies to brand them or rebrand them. You know, how do you identify and implement the key branding elements that align with each client's specific audience and values?

So, you know, research is a big part of it. Right. So what are your competitors? What does the market look like? Right. So you look at what's happening already in the marketplace. How does that take? I mean, it takes it's not it doesn't take a long time, but you have to really go in and look and see where the opportunity is. And that's where the

thought process comes in. So you know, confusion. Yeah. You want to look and say, OK, there's there's there's here's my top 10 competitors out of the top 10 competitors. Five of them are using red, white and blue. So red, red, blue is already off the table. I can't use red, white and blue because there's no way I can own it. Right. So you start identifying where are the opportunities for us to build a brand that I can own the brand colors. Right. So sometimes it's hard to even just to do that. So you think about what are the three colors maybe that I can put together that I can own? Because maybe I can't own red. Maybe I can't own red and blue.

Maybe I can own teal, red and blue or something like that. So you start thinking about creatively what you can do. So you want to look at what strategies are they deploying? Are there a lot of mascots in this marketplace? Well, if there's 10 mascots in the marketplace, I don't want to put the 11th one out there. Okay. So I want to think about a different strategy that no one else is doing so that I can be again, ownable so I can be remembered, not confused with somebody else. So you definitely want to do some research and even for the, anyone who's listening, again, ownable so I can be remembered, not confused with somebody else. So you definitely want to do some research and even for the, anyone who's listening, again, print out a picture of your van, right? And compare it to the 10 people that you compete

against and tell me where you live in that, that, you know, does it look like the other 10? Or does it look like something that's completely unique? And if it feels similar to what everyone else is doing, change it, then yeah, change it. Then, then why would Mrs. Jones ever remember it? ever remember it right and I think that's the other thing to always keep in mind is who are you marketing to? Right always keeping in mind that mrs Jones she makes up 80 to 90 percent of the home purchasing decisions So does your brand actually communicate to her does it actually? Something that she might connect to something that she might remember something that if she called you What does she expect she's gonna get because she's already afraid of who's coming to her

home how does the brand actually communicate to her and make her feel confident and who's going to show up at our house. Yeah, no, I agree. I think a lot of people they think having black with big muscles on the side and like this really disruptive. It's cool. I mean if you like heavy metal and like let's upload and like, you know Walk us through the process so someone calls you and decides

Look, I think I'm gonna pull the trigger It makes sense You know and by the way the best time to rebrand was ten years ago the next best time same time to plant a tree Was today. Yeah, a lot of people that they hesitate and I just don't understand they're betting the future of their family And they're so hard to pull the trigger and I understand they don't have money But there's a reason they don't have money is because their brand does not stand out So they're paying and everybody calls me. I'm not gonna leave them not get leads We are got more leads than we can handle. I mean we've got and here's what's cool when they call up a one They're like it's okay

If you guys can't get out for a couple days because because we're going to use you no matter what. We see you guys everywhere. We love you guys. They got to know me. I put out but I spend money in marketing. You know, I'm not I'm not afraid of that. But give me give me like the process. Just sum it up. Suited nuts real quick. You know, we're going to look at your competitors. We're going to talk to you about likes and dislikes that you like, but also with the notion of keeping in mind that who we're building a brand for isn't necessarily you as the owner, it's for the people that you were trying to sell to. So you wanna think deeper along the lines

of what is the actual brand story that we're trying to communicate, and how does the brand support it? How does the brand visually tell that story? You think about the brand that we did for Amanda at Grasshopper. Her tagline is forward is a way of life. So you have the Grasshopper. Grass tagline is forward is a way of life. So you have the Grasshopper.

Grasshoppers can only move forward. They're the only insect that actually can't move backwards. So you have a message that goes along with that visual that connects to that consumer to have them understand that we as a company will do everything in our power to make your home comfort solutions work, move forward. Right. And the same thing is what is the message to the actual employees that we as a company are going to do everything and we can to propel you forward in your career. Right. So you have a brand that not only speaks to the customers that you're trying to

attract, but also helps attract the A players that you want to work for you in that company. So Amanda doesn't have a recruitment problem. You hear so many people talking about recruitment problems. They can't find people that don't want to work for you. A lot of times people don't want to work for you in that company. So Amanda doesn't have a recruitment problem. You hear so many people talking about recruitment problems. They can't find people that don't want to work for you. A lot of times people don't want to work for you because you don't look like a company that you want to be associated with.

You think about your branding before and your recruitment challenges before versus what your recruitment looks like now. You think people look at your brand and say, hey, I don't think I want to be a part of this. Right? I mean, you're going to get brand new equipment. They're going to get brand new trucks.

They're going to get training, you know, so, so the brand goes a long way, long way to support the notion of why people want to be associated with it. I think it's so important. You know, a lot of people don't bring the brand, like they get, they go branded by you and then they get the rap company that changes the colors, that doesn't fit right exactly. They didn't get the right vector files. And then they didn't do the interior of their building and warehouse and showroom.

And they don't bring the brand inside. And that's a big mistake. I always ask how many people, I'm on stage quite a bit, and I say how many people got branded by Dan Antonelli. A lot of people do. I'm like, how many of you guys have the brand living within the building all over the walls that Dan actually created? It's like very people do. I'm like, how many of you guys have the brand living within the building all over the walls that Dan actually created?

It's like very little, and I don't understand that. And it's so simple to do it. And I think it's a big deal. I mean, I just had yesterday, just yesterday, two clients sitting in my showroom, and the brands inside of the showroom. Branding has become a buzzword these days, and I want, Ryan, maybe you could answer this,

and then Dan could could give some context What do you think the biggest misconception people have about what branding really means? Oh, I think people think branding is a logo Like I think they just stopped there. Yeah, and branding is so much bigger than a logo. It really The thing just this is a true about marketing in general. I think people forget that marketing is about psychology and persuasion. It's about nudging people to do something, right? And so when, if you just think it's a logo, cool, just have your teenage daughter do something, like that's fine. But that's not persuasion.

That's not nudging. That's not, Dan always describes as like living rent-free in their brain. That is a really powerful effect that not just Anything does so I think a lot of people stop short at just the logo. They don't really incorporate in the culture They don't really corporate in the marketing message that a brand promise in the actual experience that customers have Yeah, I think that's probably one of the biggest misconceptions Yeah I think when people say or they hear how much it costs to actually get a real brand and they're like

that much and they'll say something like for just a logo. Yeah. And if your mindset is it's just a logo, then you really truly have no understanding of branding and what that will do for your business and how will it affect everything across your channels. That's why you mentioned earlier about the lifeblood of your business. And this is the area that you want to save the most amount of money on. This is the area you want to skimp on, is your brand, really? And then these are the same people that are really upset

with how much it costs them every month to buy leads on. So these are the same people whose booking rate sucks and their close rate sucks and their average tickets suck and All those things are related to brand. It's all all connected So it's kind of I think that miss percept Misconception about what a logo is and not understanding that a logo is just a piece of that brand It's the foundation for it for sure like you get that piece wrong and none of your marketing channels are actually going to perform well. Yeah, I sometimes like when I'm talking with clients or people to show, I'll usually ask the question like, okay, close your eyes and think about

a luxury car. Yeah. Right. What is it? So for them, they'll name someone like BMW, whatever, right? Doesn't matter. Cool. What does it feel like? What does it smell like? And every time these people can like recall these sensory expenses, like expressions, right? Even if they don't own a BMW, even if they don't own a Mercedes, they can recall what it feels like, what it smells like. What it makes you feel like. That is the power of brand. Yeah, right? It pulls all that out. And when people like corners on, well, they don't want to invest in that for their own business,

they're like, oh my gosh, that's a powerful, powerful force that they are taking off the table. They can work for that. You know, here's the thing. When I rebranded initially six years ago, I didn't change my email signature to the brand, different colors. The Valpak didn't change my email signature to the brand, different colors. The Valpak didn't match.

You got mad at me. You said your billboards don't even, they're not even the same color palette. Your yard signs are off. So it took me a few years of you just, you're like, dude, the spacing's wrong. You must have probably three messages a month for the next three years and it still comes here and there. And now it's just like, everything has to follow these brand guidelines everywhere somebody sees you. Reminder, reminder, reminder, reminder. And you know, we've got the whole caricature of like the A1 guy on the side

of the truck, which is me, but it's a caricature. And then we've got a jingle and it all goes together into the brand. And if you reinforce this brand all the time in your trucks, one of the things you recommend is your trucks. Are driving around all the time. Put them somewhere on your website near the top. Yeah. Cause that's what people recognize. That's another great tip.

Why do you. Yeah, because sometimes people don't even know what your actual logo is, but they know what your truck looks like. Right. And if the truck is done in a distinctive way, again, that repetition, they keep seeing it, they start on their neighbor that repetition, they keep seeing it. They saw it on their neighbor's driveway. They saw it driving down the street.

Now they actually went to your website. Oh, was that the same company that I saw my neighbor using? Oh yeah, that was, that's their van, right? So it's really important that the vehicle gets featured in a lot of your advertising because it's often more recognizable to them than your actual logo. That's interesting.

I think a lot of people need to listen to this and do this. I'm gonna go back and forth here. So Dan, you authored several books on branding. What motivated you to write Branded Not Blended, which I'm in the book twice, thank you. What do you hope readers take away from it? So listen, I wrote the book because there's just so many common errors that home service companies

are making with their branding. And I thought, why are they making these errors? First of all, right? And part of it is because they just don't know, right? So you don't know what you don't know. So even from day one, you start the business and you name it. And that's often the thing that gets done wrong,

literally from day one, right? So the biggest chapter in the book is actually on naming, like how to name your home service company. What are the things that you should be looking for when picking a name and choosing a name? So I put the book out there because I'm like, hey, listen, not everyone can be a kick-charge client, right? But if they read the book, they would really better understand how the psychology of branding affects consumer spending, how it affects everything about their marketing channels and how to

leverage a brand as best they can in their business. So listen, it's something that I'm really proud of because it's helped so many people. I get so many emails from people like you could read the reviews on Amazon. It's just so gratifying for me because like I said, not everyone can work with us and that's okay. But I wanted people to have the most information possible to understand how this works, how this is supposed to function. Because there's literally no other information

about it specific to home service branding that you can find. Like what other books are out there about home service branding? There isn't, there's none, right? So I said, let me put what I've learned over the last 30 years into a book and hopefully it helps a bunch of people.

That's a great book. I really enjoyed the book and it's really high quality. It's got the colors really, really the right, you know, paid stock and just, it's just well done. Ryan, given your extensive experience in the trades, what are some of the most common challenges you see contractors facing when trying to grow their businesses?

Oh, there's a long list here. Oh, there is. This is only an hour long show. I'll probably make the point of for the companies who struggle, they kind of fail to grasp the importance of ops, right? It's almost like they think, hey, I can do more PPC and I could run more calls and I can do more and more and more without actually doing any of the hard work to actually make the business a better business.

I think I'd probably say 80% of the people who struggle, that's where they struggle. They struggle knowing, hey, when the phone rings, you got to answer the stupid call. When you answer the stupid call, cool, you got to book the stupid job. You actually got to get it. You got to actually price yourself that you can actually have the business make money and do this thing again. You have to be able to train and have SOPs to be able to have other people follow. I think a lot of people really find themselves in this. They think the path to being building a city is just having a big small village, right?

That's not the same. It's the same thing, right? So yeah, I think the doing the OP stuff, doing SOPs, that's hard. Leadership development is hard. It is. Like focusing on culture so that they work in the same way with the same values that you find important is hard. And that's where the growth is. I was just in a meeting right before this and we were going over our deck that we present

with our partners, our sponsors. And there's just so many opportunities. The bigger I get, and it does get easier, but the more opportunities I find, I find a million dollars there, a million dollars there, two million dollars there. Yeah, we all have that problem. And it's like, look, it falls between mostly

really great recruiting, really good training, and making people feel loved. You do those well. Look, marketing has always come easy to me, but marketing is really easy when you got a high conversion rate, high booking rate, high average ticket has always come easy to me, but marketing is really easy when you got a high conversion rate, high booking rate, high average ticket. Yeah.

It's easier to spend money. Plus, we've got the brand and the jingle and the caricature. I just try to stand out as much as possible. We're going to get really creative. But the fact is, A1 is able to hit 25% of the bottom line. And as we continue to grow, I think it's possible to hit 30 just because economies of scale.

So a lot of people want to stay small. They don't want the stress. Well, why did you get into business? Like, if you don't want a brand, right, you don't want to answer your phone, you don't want to get financials that make sense, you don't want to buy new vehicles to make your people feel welcome, some people say they have a business,

but really they have an LLC and an EIN number. They own a job. They have a job. And that's 100% the case. All right, Dan, can you elaborate on your mantra, design as if lives were at stake? That's a good one. Yeah, so listen, that's a big part of our core philosophy.

You are playing with someone's livelihood when you design their brand. And you need to treat that responsibility as such. So for everyone on the team, they certainly recognize that the work that we do has the potential to change lives and that we need to really, really carefully accept that responsibility and hold that responsibility sacred to us. So I love sharing the feedback from our clients to our team, like when they tell us about how their brand has impacted their lives. It's something that is always front and center

about much of our culture, is the impact of our work. And a lot of people that work for us came from environments where they work for bigger ad agencies And they never got to get a sense of accomplishment. They never got to really see the results Of their work. It's really cool. We're actually doing a wall rap in our office That is featuring we have like a hundred photos of all our clients in front of their vans with their team Yeah, and the headline, our brands change lives. And just a continuum of reinforcement.

So anytime we get feedback like that, we're sharing it with the team. And I think that that's the part that makes me a little bit sad about some of the stuff that we're seeing happening in the industry as far as branding or people that are selling branding services. Some of them just are not qualified to be doing it.

And it's really upsetting to me to see, because again, you're playing with somebody's livelihood. The person that wrote that check to you is expecting you to know how to do your job. And if you don't know how to do your job, don't get in the business, because you have the potential to really affect their business negatively

if you do it wrong. And one thing I hate to see is when someone's gotten a brand done by someone. And then I have to go redo it because it wasn't done right the first time. And I think about all that, all the effects that that's had on their business. And, um, it's definitely something that, that makes me sad to see when, when someone doesn't treat it with that same care that we take and, you know, I think that, you know, if people respected that responsibility

that are performing these services, they would look at that differently. That's why it's so important that when we partnered with Ryan, that we partnered with somebody that shared that same philosophy as far as understanding that the work that he does in digital marketing is that same exact philosophy. Ryan, you're gonna get results.

I mean, what I like about what Ryan does is he shows you the work and it's not, there's so many ways to look at something and disguise it. Like I could show you, you rank for a keyword that's a long tail keyword very quickly that no one's searching, but you know, it's results oriented, reverse engineering, how to get huge results.

Hey guys, quick thought for you before we get back to get huge results. phones ringing even when marketing slows down. Here's what my top guys do on every job. They get good reviews on Google, Yelp, Nextdoor, and Facebook. They put up yard signs. They talk to the neighbors. They even figure out who runs the HOA. Basically, they turn one job into 20 new leads before they back out of the driveway. That's what happens when you hire A-plus players and put the right systems in place.

If you want to learn how to build a team like this, sign up for the live webinar I'm hosting with my managing director Jim Leslie. We're breaking down three moves you can make to keep the phones ringing and double your growth in 2025. No BS, just the real stuff that works. It's happening May 21st. No replays. So join our Facebook group, The Home Service Expert, if you haven't already. And keep an eye out for our announcement about the webinar. All right, back to the episode. All right, Ryan, as a marketing consultant,

what are some of the most impactful decisions you've helped contractors make that have significantly improved their bottom line? Ooh, that's a good one. I think this is going to sound contrary to the question, right, which is helping people know how to adequately spend money in marketing. Because I think there's a risk sometimes where people want

to under capitalize. And there are some channels where that is a really bad decision. So they end up bleeding cash just because the channels can't mature. Billboards comes to mind. AdWords comes to mind. If you don't invest in those channels well they just don't produce well. So to help helping people see the

math that fully invest in the channel you're trying to allocate and then you can actually start getting the return back. Once they see that happen it's fantastic. There was a guy actually it's it was a mutual client of ours before like for years five or six years and I remember he was a guy, actually it was a mutual client of ours before, like for years, five or six years. And I remember he was a one-man shop at the time and he was really struggling investing in SEO. Like I don't want to, I don't remember how much he was paying, doesn't matter. But he was struggling because he was just like, I need calls, I need stuff today, I need cash flow today and he was really struggling. And I had to keep pushing through of like,

you're in a market market stupid competitive where he was You can't cut corners. You can't under capitalize. You have to dig in you have to go through that. I think now I don't know. He's under 50 trucks, but he's he's not at all the same business He was then but that first year of hell was awful for him because of that stress But he had to push through that discomfort to get there So thinking that was I mean, that's probably, I don't want to say everything is solved by spending more. That's not the lesson.

The lesson is you don't win big unless you risk big. And at some point, you have to be able to put yourself in those positions so those channels can do what you want them to do. Being cheap on it doesn't help. Well, I'm all about, look, I'm all all about marketing I mean, there's nobody a bigger advocate But if you're not answering your phone if you're not open nights 100% GMB doesn't say open 24 hours like there's so many simple little things like

You're booked out three days, but you're spending a fortune in PBC You got a lawyer's like and I'm not saying turn it off but understand capacity planning like that's a whole thing I could give a clinic on this stuff because I see like it's like it's a it's so common sense for me But I've been doing this 20 years I think also Tommy to one thing to make note is I think the home service owners today have access to so much data At their fingertips the problem is is they don't know how to leverage it That's a thing so you you look at the people that are on you know Great CRMs and the data is literally right in front of you.

Telling how to set it up. Well, but looking at the data saying, well, what is our booking rate? What is our close rates? What is our acquisition costs? And if those numbers aren't in sync, well, why do you think they're not in sync? What's the underlying reason?

So sometimes the data is literally right there telling you what you need to fix, and you just have to know how to fix it at that point. It's literally saying, well, your booking rate is 80%. Well, why isn't it 90? Well, is that because of the CSRs? Is that because of branding? There's all these things that it could be from,

but the data is literally right there for you to analyze. And a lot of people just ignore the data. And then they wonder why average tickets are low, why booking rates are low, why the close rates are low. And even the people who are always screaming and saying, oh, my digital marketing company sucks. When then you look at how many open estimates are they have, right? So why aren't we rehashing? Why aren't we going after the open estimates? So like sometimes too, it's not that you need more leads, you need to do a better job with the leads that you're actually getting. Absolutely. You got to have a rehash team and

you need to be closing. You know, this is a common thing I see. You know, I know a lot of the clients that come to you, they just don't have the money. They're underfunded. I mean, when you think about the first five years in business, I didn't have the money. I couldn't get an SBA loan. I just had to go out there and work. In fact, I was bartending at Busting Tables for four of the year.

I still have my landscaping business. I did them simultaneously because I needed to make money while investing in this garage door business. And some people are like they go all in, they quit their job, but they don't have any savings. You know, I would say this, they're underfunded 100 percent. And when you're underfunded, it's like you're going to have to put in 10 years of sweat equity. And I'm sorry. Like, look, if it were me, the first thing I would do is get branded correctly and start my digital journey.

And that's SEO that's getting a lot of reviews with pictures. And I'd have the client write a really sincere review. And I've got enough time to squeak the wheels with them to just say, please, I'm early in this business. That's where it's like David and Goliath. The big companies don't have the time. They can't do yard stand. They can't knock on the doors around there. They can't make it to the chamber meetings They can't go to be and I meetings like there's still an advantage from being small and sometimes people tell me like

What would you do if you're me? I didn't like if you're not working you need to go be meeting people You need to be talking to realtors. You need to be talking to designers. You need to be talking to builders They just say well, I want what you have everybody the views, but no one wants to make the hike. Yeah. Yeah. And I think to that point, Tommy, you talk about the grassroots efforts that are required. They're not just for the guys that are just starting. And that's when you get bigger.

Sometimes you ignore the grassroots efforts. You don't go to the community events. You're not in the parade. You're not helping the community. You're not sponsoring the little leagues. All those things do not cost a lot of money. But those are the things sometimes that the PE backed companies can't compete with they're not they don't do any of that stuff So becoming that notion of five mile famous within the community So everyone within five miles know who to think about when they need that particular service a lot of those efforts are not just specifically

Happening online. They're happening legitimately in person, right? So what are we doing to put our brand name in front of the community on a regular basis? Are we going to the 4th of July parade with a branded truck that's rolling at three miles an hour and the streets are lined four deep with people in my community that I'm trying to sell? How much do you think that costs?

Like literally, like one of my clients did the other, last year for Halloween, they were throwing candy out from the from the truck Yeah, and it was a mile and a half of three deep and the car is moving at three miles an hour You can't look at anything else, but that branded truck So how many impressions do we get and the cost was like $150? I'm like are you kidding me? Where could you have advertised for $150 and had that many eyeballs on the exact? Demographics that you're trying to reach at that parade. I'm like, are you kidding me? Where could you have advertised for $150 and had that many eyeballs on the exact demographics that you're trying to reach at that parade? I'm totally doing that.

I'm still now with my, you know, my big showroom, Cunk? I'm totally doing that. I'm still in it. You know, my buddy Travis Ringy sold for north of $30 million in six zip codes. That's all he worked. And at north part of Phoenix. And so many people, that's another big mistake,

is like, yeah, you're right, they buy a billboard for two months, they do a radio commercial for two weeks. Like, you gotta run Radio Solid for like 18 months before you really see a big effect. Minimum, yeah, minimum. A lot of people are like, I'm gonna try everything, I call it spray and pray. They're just trying to see what'll work.

Like, just do PPC, do anything paid, because that does work, but it's the most expensive form of marketing you're ever going to do by far, paid ads versus organic and getting reviews. As an expert logo designed for small businesses, what are the essential elements that you believe every effective logo should possess to resonate with its target audience? So definitely looking at the logo as something that is communicating some type of feeling, some type of emotion, some type of promise. That's why naming becomes so critical as well. What does the name itself communicate?

But when you look at the logo, if I had no other contacts, except seeing that logo, seeing that truck wrap, what do I feel about what I might get if I chose to hire you, right? So I think that people, again, are misunderstanding how the logo is supposed to function and what it really is meant to do, but it's meant to make people feel something, it's meant to make people expect something, right?

So the more generic you are with your brand, the more it looks like everybody else's brand, then I think you're just like everybody else, and there's no no Real logical reason for me to choose you over someone else at that point But if I could look at a brand then I have a high expectation of what I might get as a service That's when you know, your logo and your brand is doing what it's supposed to be doing at that point So, you know with kick charge you guys do the logo the brand the color palette the tray

you talk to me a little bit about the trademark and the Copyrights because this is something that my lawyers I spend a lot of money defending but I'm winning every time Yeah, so it's you know, listen you you invest in your brand It's something that is your intellectual property and you want to take the steps to protect it So we always recommend our clients file a formal trademark on their logo Submit it to the people that yeah, we have lawyers that work with our clients that handle it. It's not even a lot of money. It's like $1,500 to get it all set up.

But that means that literally no one in the country can ever use your branding or your brand elements or take pieces of your brand and basically try to steal it and use it as their own. I mean, it happens sadly quite often. Probably most of me. Yeah, I mean, we saw yours recently get done And we've had a lot of our clients unfortunately

Get sold Or have their brands sold to other people like imagine that like imagine someone sold your logo to another company That other company didn't know it they wrapped five trucks, and then they get the cease and desist You know think about how expensive it is to fix that. Right, so people sometimes say too, again, oh, let me get a logo on Fiverr, let me go on a crowdsourcing site and get my logo. Well, when they rip off someone else's brand

and then you start using it and putting on everything you own, you think Fiverr's gonna reimburse you? No. So again, there's risks in doing some of those things, but it is really important to protect your intellectual property. I see all these wannabes that have tried. Look, I love the people that come for shop tours,

and at least they did something. I just don't think there's a substitute for. And I say this because I like, dude, I've been talking you guys up since the day I got rebranded. The employees have a pride. And them my co-workers, but they show up, they walk in differently. They show up to my client's house differently. They ask for reviews differently. People apply differently. Like for what I paid and it's just I just don't think people really understand until they do it. And you've got, you know what I'm gonna do?

I'm gonna do a second podcast, Jason Bueller, some of the people, Amanda, Ken Goodrich. Ken was really one of the first people that I saw because I'm local here, he's local here. But I wanna hear, maybe you have some of your clients give testimonials of what the difference was because Jason's story was amazing. Yeah, I think it's just transformational what it does to the business and it's nerve wracking and it's tough.

And I know that probably people almost go through divorce trying to get this done because it's like, no, I don't want to do it. And we don't want to spend the money. But my question is, how can you afford not to? Like, I really think that. But my question is how can you afford not to like I really think that and if you don't like If you had asked me what's more important the right CRM or the right brand I'd say you need the right brand to make the phone ring enough to even use a CR. You know what I mean? It's like and everybody asked me like what's the I did have a guy that used you guys that said okay? What now I got the brand I got my one truck. I'm out of money

I'm like what do you mean what do you mean you out of money? Like it doesn't even make sense to me Because look, I think everybody should have two hundred fifty thousand dollars to go into business. That's enough for marketing That's enough to get into a good lease. That's enough to buy your first couple trucks. It's enough to get a good brand It's enough to weather the storm for a few months That's enough to put some Juan ends out like if people don't have access to a couple hundred grand And I understand cause I was there and I'm not talking down to you guys, but you get a job and you work your butt off and you save

and you might have to do both at once. You might have to work at night and do two things at once. I'm sorry. Like that's just the way it is. If it was easy, everybody says, I want that job because I want freedom. The problem is it takes 15 years to get the freedom. And then everybody says, oh yeah, these businesses making all this money. You think they were

just like, there's always that, you know, Ryan, that brings me to my next question. You emphasize the importance of grit and strategy and business growth. Can you share your personal story that highlights how perseverance played a role in your journey? Oh gosh. Yeah, I'm going to, I I'm gonna go back actually to the very beginning here, because this is fun. So my dad had a pest control company in the 80s and early 90s, and that dude worked harder. He demonstrated what hard work was like.

We were in Dirt Poor in rural Oklahoma, and he would go six, seven days a week, wake up early, leave before I went to school as a kid, and then end of the day come back like after Little League baseball games I'd see him for like 15 minutes and like he was gone like he just worked harder than anyone I ever saw and That was back in the days where all you had to do to grow your business was get a big ad in the yellow pages Oh, yeah, the double truck. That's all you had to do It's just like get the biggest ad in the biggest city and the biggest local number and you're great

And then the internet happened and he struggled to pivot he struggled to learn What is a well what is email like so his his business because he couldn't mentally get his mind around that change Like I saw a guy who knew how to work the dude knew how to work He didn't understand how to adapt with changing times and trends and tech. So that's to this day, that's a lesson that I have learned. That's a lesson I teach my kids is like the power of grit and work because I think that is one of the most important and underrated skills just in the workforce at large is this like working through adversity. Things are hard. Get over it. So I'm going to tear up. Proud

of Dad moment. My son last summer, he's always struggled with work ethic. And last summer he set aside two months to work and pull people's weeds out of the rock gardens in our neighborhood, hard work for two months to raise money to go on a trip to Costa Rica. He's there right now. Oh, cool. And it's like the dude paid for his trip by working. Picking weeds, yeah.

Like it was grueling labor, and I've got photos of him like covered in dirt, but like the power of what that teaches him as a human, as like those character principles, they're gonna serve him the rest of his days. Hey guys, real quick, I want to take a minute to talk to you all about branding. KickShar's branded A1 for me, and that was a game changer. Now I've teamed up with them to bring you the exclusive Buddy Branding Package, built to help you dominate the market. With this package,

you'll get a custom logo, a killer truck wrap, polished collateral, a tagline, a high-performing website, and all the tools you'll need to launch your brand the right way. Even better, you'll get 10% off, plus a free brand launch package to help you hit the ground running. This offer is limited to the first 50 contractors who signed the proposal, so don't sleep on it. Head over to KickCharge.com and fill out the request info form today. Last thing guys, be sure to drop the word buddy in the comment section so they know

your buddy Tommy sent you. That's KickCharge.com. Sign up today. All right, now back to the episode. You know, I want to say something that's really important that I've had an epiphany on, and some people have heard me say this, but I haven't been overly outward.

I used to think, and in the beginning, it's still true, I used to think everyone other people that worked for me, their butts in seats meant success. If Luke was not here 70 hours a week, he was taking advantage of me, whether it was Adam, Luke, my CFO, anybody. Because that's what I relate to myself. I was here week as I'm here nights.

I worked the time. Now I go, you know what? Let me tell you guys a little secret. If your kids are getting a 4.0, they don't need to do homework for eight hours and study a day. If they're getting a 4.0, they could do whatever they keep doing. They're getting the result as long as they're keeping the information and they're staying sharp and they're taking tests right if you want to get into college.

I'm going after results now and I'm like because I had to change my identity because I want to be – I want to have kids. I want to get married soon. That means that I can't work 80 hours a week But I could be way more efficient with my time in my hundred sixty eight hours a week I got a meetings that matter less scrolling behind the desk because we just cuz I'm here doesn't mean I'm productive Because I could probably do a more 30 hours of focused well-slept time when I'm exercising and I'm making decisions Because I'm getting the right nutrients then being here 70 hours

Try to drink coffee, stay awake and stay focused, and barely able to type or retain information. So I stopped that idea. By the way, hard work is important. I'm not trying to belittle that. But now I'm at my position, where I'm at today, where my C-suite is, is hours don't equate to results.

When anybody tells me on my teams, dude, I put in 60 hours, I go, I don't care if you work 20 hours. I don't care if you work 20 hours. I don't care if you work 80. I'm results oriented. I stopped thinking about how, don't tell me how hard you're working. Give me the results that we sat down

and we discussed that you were gonna get me. Yeah, that's actually, it's funny you say that because on our team at Levergy for the past couple years, we moved to outcomes based hiring instead of inputs. So the whole point for us is like, we're not gonna track time coming in. We track the impact you make going out. Right. So it's all outcome spaced.

I love that. And so when that happens, if they get 60 hours of impact done in 30 hours, congrats, enjoy your extra weekend. Right. Like they just earn their way to have some space to use it. The outcome still happened. The impact is still there. If they find a smarter, lazier, more efficient way to get it done in a fraction of the time, you've earned that margin back, right? It's been a fun transition. We just got back from our Pinnacle trip and Ashley, one of my EA's was with us and she's

like, hey, we've got a lot of stuff to do today. I said, I'm really sorry. I said, I think I'm just going to take the next four days off. If something's important, I'm really sorry. I said, I think I'm just going to take the next four days off. If something's important, I'm like, I'm going to tequila. I'm going to play volleyball and just F off a little bit. And I got to tell you guys, I felt a rebirth when I got back. And now I'm going to make vacation time to turn off mandatory for everybody. Like, your PTO must be used. And I want you to shut off and get a reset because when I came back, I mean, I started that fast.

I'm like, man, I'm gonna go 150. Like all of a sudden it was clarity. And I think I just, I got stick a beat. I got out of the bubble for a little bit. Our bodies need rest. They really do. I love it, man. Dan, I got another question here.

In your opinion, how can small businesses leverage branding to foster customer loyalty and create lasting relationships with their clients and what role the storytelling play in this process? So, you know storytelling is a technique that you use to again create those pathways to their mind You think about ways in which you create empathy how you can actually build brands that connect to them in a meaningful manner. Again, Roy Williams, you know who Roy Williams is. Yeah, he signed a can of Goodrich yesterday. And he has a great quote that just says something to the effect of overspending on marketing is the tax you pay for being unremarkable.

So building brands that connect to that key demographic that you're most interested in attracting, how does your brand speak to them? building brands that connect to that key demographic that you're most interested in attracting, how does your brand speak to them? And then the voice, the words that you use on your website, the words that you use in your social media posts, how do they also speak in a language that connects to the people that you're trying to sell? So one good test that people can use,

if they're even thinking about wording and the messaging of their story and how that storyline reads is if you went on your own website and you literally changed the name of your company every time it's referenced to your biggest competitor would the words on your website still make sense or would it be only applicable to you? You can't go to Amanda's website for Grasshopper and replace her name with someone else and have it make any sense. So thinking about what is unique about the story of your company and how that story affects that consumer.

Yeah, the origin story. Here's the deal. What do people think competitive advantage is? Every one of the listeners wants you to listen to this. 24 hours background checks, work nights, weekends, holidays is not a competitive advantage. In fact, the competitive advantage, Janie Smith talks about historical data. Out of our last 24,000 jobs, 23,998 started on time. The other two were rectified within 48 hours. No one else could claim that. Historical data is a great way to do it. And then also the brand story. I talk about my mom a lot. She moved in 2010. She was born in 1954, the same day I was in 1983. She decided to leave her whole existence to come help me run this business with my stepdad in 2010.

And I'm listening to Ken and Ken's like, here's the deal, dude. I'm sitting down with you in the next two weeks and I'm going to teach you relationship marketing and we're going to tell the best stories ever. And I'm going to tell the story about my grandma's Maytags how they never broke down and they're still around today at my uncle's like they just keep going and going and going they're 50 years old the yellow ones yeah yeah and like so I thought about when I came up with Max life like that a part that'll never break because I'm so sick of replacing my phone every six months I'm so sick of this stuff

that's built to break. Even your appliances. So I'm like, listen, we're going to create parts that no one else has. We're going to put a trademark on it called Max Life. Listen, let's do a couple final questions here. I do think that you throw the brand with the right digital marketing and some conventional things. I do Valpeq. I think Clipper works. I think what I do very well is I look at last month's issues

and I make sure that I'm not apples to apples. If they're selling springs for this, I'll sell Springs Rollers Quiet Special with this. It's completely different. Or I gotta beat them on price. Because they're discount shoppers, they're looking at the coupons. But I wanna I want to get different

And by the way Joe Casar is books around here And you know, I do think you got to give options in sales I think it's always good to give options because if you're not giving more than one option You're giving them an ultimatum to say yes or no. I think every business should have two or three options But listen, I think you guys are going to be amazing together. I don't think people understand this about you, Dan, by the way. They think it's the Dan Antonelli show. You got so many good people at that company.

I mean, you're on the stages, you do a lot of the podcast, but those people are at home working right now. They're grinding. Yeah, there are so many good people behind what Kick Charge does. It's not one or two or 10 people. There's and it's more of a family than anything. And you want to take care of everybody. And you do too, Ryan.

And Ryan, you've got 25 people hustling. So listen, both of you guys have been super successful. I'll give you guys a chance to close us out. But first and foremost, Dan, if they want to get a hold of you, what's the best way to do it? I think you go to KickCharge.com or just send me an email danatkickcharge.com and I'm happy to help them. Cool.

Yeah. I mean, same for me. Same website, Ryan at Kick Charge. We're also on all the socials. My social media. And any books for marketing that stand out for you, Ryan, like must-reads? Oh gosh, there's so many Not to plug my own I did write a book several years ago It's literally called the book on digital marketing for the book. It's literally the book the title of the book is its own punchline

It's on Amazon people can pick up the book the book ready. Yeah-E-D-D-I-N-G. The book on digital marketing. It's there. There's so many good books. I will maybe plug also Donald Miller's, the story brand. We talked about story. There's this idea, because for people who get confused, someone texted me about this the other day, about why does story matter?

Like, people talk in story. That's our native tongue. Yeah. Right? They remember stories forever. They stick. That's what we sing songs about. That's our native tongue. Yeah, they remember stories forever. They stick. That's what we sing songs about. Like, that's the thing. So that book is a really good outline of like introducing the customer psychology and how they talk in story. And then we couple that with like a kick-charge brand. That's a really, really powerful weapon.

Yeah, Purple Cow is another good book. Yeah, Purple Cow. It's a really good book. A lot of our philosophy is rooted in that notion of disruption Yeah, and standing out in a sea of sameness, which is why we hate the white vans Yeah, a lot of that generic stuff for sure. You look by Ryan Holiday on marketing is pretty good, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah alright guys, so look I Can't emphasize this enough I was 30 million dollars. I don't know. Have you ever rebranded a company bigger than me at the time? At the time no you know now you got the biggest P type come um I would say Aaron Gaynor from

Eco plumber I think was 41 million the yeah that we rebranded him a year later. They were at 60 million which is Which is pretty cool Yeah, healthy bottom line to that's what's important. Remember revenues for vanity profits exactly exactly Listen Ryan give us we talked about a lot of stuff here, man Give us Anything you want close us out and then I'll have Dan close us out anything you want So also stick with marketing because that's kind of the seat that I'm sitting in right now. When one is choosing the market of the business, make sure that

you're a brand worth marketing. So be marketable and then actually be able to know and allocate resources accordingly and then measure those results. If you have questions, ask. People are going to ask me questions all the time. People always hit up Dan about, hey, what do you think about my logo? People do the same thing with me. I am always wanting to help make the trades better. So people have questions about, I don't understand this about SEO or PPC. I'm happy that, however I can help. When you have a good grasp on what works and what doesn't work, cool.

Do more of those things. Use math to make decisions Don't use emotion. That's a big one Yeah, that's yeah Which means you have to have data to make decisions from but that's a whole other thing Integrity, we have a whole team involved around data integrity that integrity Yeah, it is really big freakin. And then data literacy also stands. This is Dan's point earlier, right?

Having numbers on dashboard doesn't mean anything if you don't understand what those numbers mean or what levers to pull with them. All right, Dan, what do you got, brother? So the one thing I want to say is we talked a lot about metrics, we talked a lot about KPIs. The one thing we didn't really talk about is the mindset change that happens

after rebranding. And I just want to bring this up because it's funny, I posted something on my Facebook page and you actually shared it on the home service page where we had a bunch of stats for a client that had rebranded and we were comparing the three months pre-rebrand and post-rebrand and the KPIs associated with it. And someone in the comments said something to the effect of, well, that's great, but a rebrand will also totally re-energize the team and re-energize the ownership and things like that. And I'm like, absolutely.

That is totally true what happens. But people don't look at that as something that they understand fully until they've gone through it. So they go through the process and they're like, oh my God, I am so much, so much more energy about my company, where I'm going. And then the team is more behind you because they recognize that you're investing in branding

because you're trying to build a better future for them. You're trying to create something that's going to have a lasting impact on their lives as well. So the mindset change that happens is really interesting to see how some of these owners that have been running these businesses for 10, 15, 20 years that get rebranded, it's almost like they're reborn.

They just get so excited. They're super proud to be putting on that new uniform with that new brand and wear the branded apparel and things like that. And I think people underestimate what the value of that psychological shift that happens after rebranding. So we don't do enough actually talking about what happens to the owner's mindset

and what that actually does to re-energize the internal team. We talk so much about the metrics for marketing, but what happens from a cultural standpoint and what happens to that owner's mindset is something that's really amazing to see. When we were at the Home Service Freedom event in San Diego, there was company after company after company kept coming up. We were eating dinner outside at this table and they're like, got their new shirts on,

their new hoodies, got the new logos. People had tears, like legit tears in their eyes of how they felt sporting the new brand. Oh yeah. Like totally a cool moment to be able to watch and it happens all the time. You know I don't think I've maybe two or three events out of the 50 I've done that I haven't had this exact A1 shirt on and it's just because I'm proud of my brand. It's like people are always like you're a garage shirt guy. I'm like, no, I'm the garage door guy. Well, listen, I really appreciate the listeners out there and you too for coming out here. It's amazing. And I think everybody should at least give you a phone call and see what it looks like and hear your ideas. It's never pressure. In fact, I think you guys are the

worst closers of all time. Because you got so much business you're so booked out you guys are high high high in demand You don't need anybody's business you get it because you're referral only I mean that you don't market you don't do any marketing you're on a couple stages and podcast Yeah, you don't need your product stands alone. So Listeners out there listen, I totally appreciate you guys if you like this episode share it Please with somebody that needs to hear this message Don't be afraid to leave me a review That's the biggest and best compliment I could ever receive and look out for a part two where we're gonna hear some

People that got affected where their lives change because of kick-charge and what those those guys do over there I'm Tommy Mello, and thank you for listening to The Home Service Expert. Hey there, thanks for tuning into the podcast today. Before I let you go, I wanna let everybody know that Elevate is out and ready to buy. I can share with you how I attracted a winning team of over 700 employees in over 20 states.

The insights in this book are powerful and can be applied to any business or organization. It's a real game changer for anyone looking to build and develop a high-performing team like over here at A1 Garage Door Service. So if you want to learn the secrets that help me transfer my team from stealing the toilet paper to a group of 700 plus employees rowing in the same direction, head over to elevateandwin.com forward slash podcast and grab a copy of the book. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch up with you next time on the podcast.